I'm Talking with Wally Bressler The Author of Tragic Hero! Tune In!

Training will help you understand how to build your business, people like Wally Bressler, the Author of the best selling book Tragic Hero will help you change your mindset and as a result, will change the trajectory of your business!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What's up everybody this is Matt Moreno obviously sitting here talking with Wally Bressler.

(00:29):
I'm going to talk about some sales secrets as his business.
Coach how many people like over 35,000 people something like that?
I've done about 40,000 calls I've coached thousands of people like if you can take
into consideration you know groups and individuals and stuff like that it's definitely definitely
in the many thousands for sure it's like 22 years so I gotta forget a few people under

(00:52):
my belt for short.
That's amazing.
You know when I first saw you I was doing the NAEA training here at EXP and you know
I learned a ton of stuff from you.
Thank you I appreciate that.
Funny story more people know me by voice than they do by face because we did coaching we

(01:15):
did live calls three days a week you know we did Tuesdays we did Thursdays we did live
calls they'd go my coaching calls so people would say that they knew me but they'd only
heard me then it would seem to me it's probably to their benefit anyway but I mean I kid
I kid so yeah so no I've worked a lot of folks had a lot of folks and I appreciate the kind
of words and you know NAEA really has been a huge difference in a lot of real estate
agents lives for sure.

(01:36):
Yeah you know it's I mean it's a huge thing for us over here at EXP we all go through
the training and I keep going back to it just stay fresh on it I mean it there can never
be enough training.
No I agree but you know the thing is is you know you've ever seen those people who are

(01:58):
like lifetime students they have like three bachelors three masters like three doctor
degrees and they don't really apply anything to it I mean you can do all the training in
the world but if you don't take it and implement it so you get used to it it's really just
more knowledge and knowledge you know knowledge is power yeah but really the use of that knowledge
is truly what the power is you know.
Yeah no I agree with you 100% you know I have a lot of friends like that where they're just

(02:22):
constantly it's like they collect documents you know like they collect degrees and they're
all on the walls of their house and they're all super proud of them but yeah they work
at Target or something like that and you're like I don't know if you made the most out
of that you know.
I was like a commitment issue to me sir but that's just me.

(02:47):
So you know one thing that we've been running into a lot in our office and I've been noticing
with agents and it kind of like been trying to wrap my head around phone call reluctance
right.
I never really had I was never really reluctant to make phone calls like with my work history
when I started out in sales back in the late 90s I worked at a cemetery doing cold calls

(03:08):
out of a phone book to try to set pre-planning appointments right to to pedal plots head
stalling, caskets all of that you know and sell it to the people before they die.
So you're going through the phone book looking up you know names of like Eunice and Fred and

(03:30):
stuff like that and making those calls and so for me calling about a real estate transaction
is a super easy in comparison.
But what I've noticed is nobody else is like me right like nobody else had that that experience
and and so where do you think the reluctance comes from?

(03:53):
So actually I know where I come from so I'm actually can tell you in detail so you know
I actually suffer from call reluctance for 10 years myself.
So from 18, 19 until about 29, 30 you know when I got my real estate license but so there's
a thing there's really two types of sales call reluctance there's a there's a syntax

(04:13):
type of call reluctance and there's an actually an emotionally driven car reluctance and so
when I syntax when I say syntax I mean knowing what to do when to do it and how to do it
right a lot of folks get into sales and so 80% of new sales people especially real estate
industry have sales call reluctance.
But a lot of that is driven by I don't know who to call what to say when I get there what
value I add and what happens next.

(04:35):
So that uncertainty that lack of clarity you know lack of clarity is a motivation killer
anyway it's a momentum killer right but if I don't know what to do when you're doing
how to do it.
If I don't know what to say that can cause call reluctance but that can be overcome
with practice that's overcome by getting on a phone role playing you know and you know
or getting on the phone and calling role playing practicing scripts and dialogues by yourself

(04:56):
you know understanding the process and then just actually getting on the phone and getting
your teeth kicked in and say get over right so that's yeah that's how you did it right
you got to find by the way if you're going to call somebody who needs a plot someone
named Eunice probably does because that person is probably very old anyway.
Yeah just open the training they're like sure I'm sure but you know Eunice that that person
is probably older anyway with that name.

(05:18):
So there's that's their kind of call reluctance and that's for folks who are just you know
usually getting started little overwhelmed by things don't know what to do so the syntax
you're wondering what to do things is a challenge for them okay.
However the kind of call reluctance that most people suffer from is an emotionally driven
sales call reluctance okay and so this is going to take me a minute to kind of connect
the dots here and I'm going to tell you a little bit about myself if that's okay to

(05:39):
help out so.
I'll tell you now.
So here's anyway so I'm going to tell you a story about one of my clients first there's
an EXP agents and icon agent last two years and his name is Brian O'Neill actually just
left being a firefighter he was full time he's in South Carolina and Greenville and you know
he literally he's a tattooed agent that's how he's branded himself he's got like right

(06:03):
things got totally traveled tattoos up his arms he got hit with a ball and he looks like
he could kill you.
Super nice guy though right but now this guy's been a firefighter for over 20 years and he
just kind of walks in and out of burning buildings you know I'm saying like you know saves people's
lives on the sidewalk so we put together our plan I was coaching him and I said okay it's
time to get on the phone and he goes I don't make calls I'm afraid of the phone he goes

(06:26):
wait a second like you save people you go back into burning building we save their lives
on the sidewalk you can't make a phone because I can't and so you know and I'll finish this
story in a second but so I looked at my own life at the time and I said okay like what
was it that kept me from getting on the phone and so I started thinking about it and so
you know I've had a you know a lot of self-inflicted wounds but a lot of other wounds that were

(06:51):
inflicted by other people you know and you know my parents you know they were good people
they just weren't good parents you know I had been getting this sort of since I was
age six you know one of my punishments when I was a kid was you'd be sent to bed without
dinner when you're like three four five years old that created a lot of fear of being hungry
I mean so I was sexually abused when I was 10 and you know I started looking at pornography

(07:12):
when I was 11 I started having sex regularly when I was 12 and then you know I was bullied
you know horribly until I was like 13 14 years old so by the time I was 14 I had addiction
to sex and addiction to pornography and addiction to food and then you know really an issue
with money too because we grew up poor and then a real poverty consciousness you know
I'm saying and then from the time I was 14 on instead of having things happen to me I

(07:36):
was really I went through like a long like probably 35 almost 40 year path of self destruction
so you know ruined my marriage by being unfaithful my ex wife four times I probably wasted about
$55 million in my life ruined lots of friendships and relationships you know and you know I went
to federal prison for a year my business partner back in four five and oh six we were doing

(07:59):
real estate investing he lied on $15 million with the mortgages well and so you know I
was part of it my name was on paperwork I had you know there were things I looked the
other way on and so but I had to accept responsibility for making a bad decision so I spent a year
in federal prison you know I didn't get to see my family for a year my fault and then
when I got out of prison a year after prison I met somebody and I really wanted a relationship

(08:21):
to work it was super toxic and I just looked past all the red flags and I found out about
four and a half years later when I couldn't get this person to come move down to be in
Texas with me even after she'd accepted the engagement ring from me that she had lied
to me about everything she'd ever told me and the fact that she actually never left
her husband and so she was married the whole time we were together and so you know that
was literally like the last horrible decision and a long list of bad decisions and you know

(08:46):
and I about a month after I found that I decided I wanted to take my own life and so fortunately
I didn't you know God had a big hand in that but the fact of the matter is is that what
I learned was is that when we go through things as a child and we have trauma or we have you
know for bullied you know if you had sexual abuse emotional abuse physical abuse you know

(09:08):
if you were bullied if you had alcoholic parents you had parents that you know believe me not
parents who don't fight is bad for us because we don't learn how to deal with conflict we
don't know how to learn how to deal with you know what we would consider to be a confrontation
parents who fight all the time is bad you know and you know you get a parent that you know
your parents split up and you get a stepmother a stepfather that's this horrible person I

(09:31):
mean there's so many things can happen a near-death experience like things like had a client who
wore dress shoes to gym class one day and she was in fifth grade the kids made fun of
her forever and she became a perfectionist because she didn't want people to see her
as being less than you know and so the problem is is these things happen when we're younger
and then it gets planted like a little seedling in our subcontinent and then every time we

(09:54):
avoid that situation that's going to create that that pain mat it reinforces in us that
we don't want to do those things where we're going to feel rejected we're going to feel
not liked we're going to feel confrontation where we're you know and so it just kills
our self-esteem and so it goes from seedling to a little plant to a big plant to a bush
to a big bush to a tree and by the time we're in our 30s 40s 20 30s 40s we've got this big

(10:15):
sequoia tree of avoidance where we're going to avoid anything we need to do to make sure
that that pain doesn't come up in us again right so it has nothing to do with the phone
and everything to do with approval and acceptance and and low self-esteem and fear of rejection
does that make sense it doesn't right and it's a complete it's a for some people it's
a block for some people they get sweaty pits they get sweaty park you know sweaty face

(10:37):
to get sweaty hands dry mouth some people completely check out you may if you you know
you've been owning your team for a while you've been owning you've owned your team for a while
you may have some getting ready to get ready people the overprepares yeah right my presentation
needs to be good my scripts need to be good my you know I don't look good you know and
but people who are incomplete denial about it you know people who say oh they don't want

(10:58):
me they don't need me it's too late to call it too early to call I don't like cold calling
I don't like when people call me every excuse in the book you know and so what happens it
shows up as caller luck and so really what it is is you know I've got these hidden identities
about what I believe I can and can't do and who I am and who I'm not and those things
trigger an avoidance strategy procrastination perfectionism you know I'm saying and then

(11:21):
happens they just don't get on the phone right right does that make sense makes sense and
so anyway getting back to Brian you know we started working with Brian and you know we
figured out some things that happened and you know he's like tease I'm a firefighter
I can do these things in the firefighter should be able to get on the phone and so about four
weeks after we started working together he calls me to say I just picked up a $500 list

(11:43):
$500 list and go really yeah I said where'd you get he goes I was calling fizzboz I was
like I'm like what and the guy ended up having another like half a million dollar house to
sort of sell so the whole point is in working with Brian and looking at why did overcome
my own sales car reluctant like you know I really worked on that's why I created phone
sales secrets to help people identify be aware of what it is that was causing that car reluctant

(12:06):
then taking them through a process and I'm not selling to them it taking people across
it and the reason I'm sharing that was you're not stuck with it you know yeah that makes
sense you know because you know essentially our sympathetic nervous system our fight or
flight instinct gets triggered when something bad happens right and you're either a fighter
so if you look at guys like Frank Shamrock you know Frank Shamrock is no he's a UFC fighter

(12:26):
they're gonna train with a Ken Shamrock and he basically spent his life kicking the crap
out of people and he'd be the business of beating people up for UFC right yeah he was
when he was a kid he's like I'm never gonna let you hurt me again he was a fighter yeah
for folks like me and who other folks have phone sales reluctance something triggered
that fight or flight response and they became a runner they became a fighter and so and then
they just reinforce it for the rest of their life and it could be something as simple as

(12:49):
your parents not fighting or somebody telling you that you were big or you took something
as somebody said and you turn it into this I'm not good enough thing and you did it your
entire life and it's a total self-esteem issue 100% self-worth and self-esteem issue and
most of them realize that and here's the thing like we all have different levels of self-esteem
in different areas like I'm never gonna be I would have if somebody said hey put on a

(13:09):
two to induce some ballet my self-esteem is probably right here right no no no you want
me to cook you dinner help you with your sales like it's up here so it's not gonna be we
have a lot of self-esteem everywhere right we have self-esteem issues in that area and
so what happens is 40% of existing sales people have a car reluctance and 65% of all sales
people have a very strong need to be liked not want to be like but need to be like you

(13:34):
know right now doesn't make these people bad doesn't make these people lazy I don't believe
in laziness I think laziness is just another word for I'm scared and I don't know how to
deal with it so I'm just gonna check out right and but once you go and find out where that
is that reason is that that happened you can make it all go away and so it's really just
a redirection right like yes like that that seed of fear is not going away that's that's

(14:03):
in there ingrained in the psychology right and we just have to redirect that to be able
to get through break through that wall or what good question so I would say the difference
between and this exact you know they say the difference between really successful people
and unsuccessful people is a really successful people are willing to go through that fear
that went and marked that fear right so when we say redirect here's what I mean is is like

(14:27):
well I have people and I just my first thing I do is help you awareness is your biggest
friend in helping you solve any problem right yeah why am I not you know successful in the
phone well let's listen to your name and maybe that's why you need to fix it right but awareness
is your biggest friend in solving a problem so let's go find out what the problem is so
let's just say that you were bullied through grade school and you had terrible self esteem

(14:49):
right you know we get acceptance usually approval in two places when we're growing up home and
school because that's where you spend most of our time exactly just say you were bullied
and the kids in school treated you like crap they beat you up your self esteem your belief
in yourself is going to be low your need for approval is going to be high you know you're
not going to feel good about who you are and you're not going to put yourself in a position
where you're not going to be approved out because in the past it was horrible for you

(15:11):
so far so good yeah so we go back and I say hey listen I tell people go take a couple
of index cards to five by seven index cards and just write down on it what is the source
of my call reluctance or what is the source of my procrastination or what is the source
of my protectionism right because whatever it is it's all the same thing and usually
by the end of the next day people are telling me what it's for so now we know that it's

(15:32):
a need for approval it's a need for rejection right right so the redirect comes not so much
from I don't you know I'm not going to need approval anymore what it comes from is is
now I'm going to make sure that every time that that feeling comes up where I feel like
I'm going to reject it I'm going to go ahead and deal with that feeling and let it go out
rather than just falling prey to it you know like I'm now a guardian of the door of my

(15:55):
mind and we're not going to let those emotions we're not going to not feel the emotions we
need to feel them we're just going to process them so that makes sense so so T. Harvecker
says you know he's a he's a personal development expert from Canada he calls it T. Fart thoughts
feelings actions results right we hear a thought then there's an emotion that comes up then
I take action or inaction which is still an acronym and then I get a result but if you

(16:19):
are an addict or if you're a procrastinator or if you have call reluctance or you're
perfectionist you've got a posture syndrome you go thought I'm just going to ignore this
procrastination perfectionism drug sex I just completely gloss over that emotion because
I want to do it so what I teach people is to do is okay let's get that let's let that
feeling comes up but when you feel the emotion instead of freaking out let's just go ahead

(16:41):
and become mindful let's just focus on being present and let that feeling come up and pass
me right and when you do when you when you take control that emotion I realize it's
not going to kill you when you spend five minutes processing it eventually it goes
away yeah now that's part of it the other part of his reprogramming my brain and getting
into affirmations and I use how Elrod's miracle morning is my right is my brain transformation

(17:04):
strategy because it's perfect so we change we get affirmations and I and people say you
know if you're if you're a if you're a list if you're a perfectionist you know you go
read a book like you know the Gist of Imperfection by Brené Brown or imperfect the imperfect you
and if you're if you have need for you know if you feel like you're not good enough we

(17:24):
go read you're a badass or I have to read a book that's pretty much counter to what
they're thinking and then we work on practicing mindfulness you good yeah all right good so
don't be dying on your podcast so you're wrong put down the wrong pipe yeah that that
epiglottis really does work so yeah anyway so you know we're read from from and then

(17:47):
so at your point like we're redirecting our thoughts we're redirecting what we say about
ourselves we're redirecting how we feel about ourselves we're taking control of those emotions
and we're self-regulating and we're not letting those emotions come in and take root and I've
had people within two weeks start picking up the phone and making phone calls because
they can control those emotions right right usually it's eight weeks but the whole point

(18:11):
is is once you decide that you're not going to let your fears take over and you learn
how to control those fears and they come up all bets are off that's it and there's there's
no holding the back right I mean yeah yeah I mean that's it I'm telling you once once
you're over it you're over it you know what I'm saying yeah it's a great thing about
matters I'm not teaching people and the guys I'm not here to sell anything I'm just trying

(18:33):
to help people understand the process so I teach one of the things I teach people is
to use the strategy to be using our whole life we've been talking to ourselves our whole
life yeah we've been processing emotions our whole life you know but through neuroplasticity
we can change what we believe about ourselves we can change what we're saying about ourselves
we've been saying stuff all our lives let's just control what we say to ourselves right

(18:55):
control we you know and here's the thing like you know think about this we're kid our brains
are like little savings accounts anybody can make a deposit you're dumb you're stupid you're
you're ugly nobody else teaches us how to remove that right so we got to learn how to
take those thoughts out and change what's going on and it's the good news is it's all stuff
we've already done our entire lives you know yeah absolutely so does that help understand

(19:19):
it's a matter of identifying what's causing the call reluctance and being radically honest
with ourselves and saying okay this is the issue and then taking radical that issue and
accepting the fact that it's not gonna kill us and then it's not your fault right right
anybody else call reluctance is not your fault right something happened New York City that

(19:40):
you saw something that made a decision or you were bullied or you were abused somehow
or you know your parents didn't have good relationship or they didn't fight or you get
smacked on the head on the way out the door and said hey you know listen Marino nothing
good ever happens to the Marino men so don't try and you know or your mom is like a woman
is to a daughter listen don't trust anybody because you can't trust anybody or whatever

(20:01):
and then that just gets reinforced for 1213 years and then it's over so yeah you know
and that but it's then once you once you say hey this and this is where it comes you I
swear to God when people find out what the cause of it is there's like two reactions
they're like oh my god I can't believe it's that and a lot of people cry and then they're
like oh my god there's hope like I don't have to like do this anymore and then they start

(20:22):
seeing where it's impacted their entire life and then they're off and running so and then
I wonder what else you know that positively affects in their life how about everything
their relationship you know their family their business you know people what people start
sleeping better right they're triggered less by things business seems to come out of the

(20:44):
woodwork which doesn't it just means they're doing things they need to do and it changes
everything it's it's crazy it's crazy yeah and it's it's really interesting to learn
about you know it's the way our human mind works you know how it's programmed how it
acts and reacts to everything right right I would say the most interesting thing is that

(21:09):
people don't realize that their call reluctant says zero to do with the phone right it has
everything to do with an experience or a number of experiences and what's in between here is
the most powerful thing right and then the more you gave it right yeah I mean I used
to be afraid to go on live video you know same thing when do you know Steve McCarthy

(21:34):
from here yeah so he's my sponsor for exp and I remember when I first came over we're
at a listing of mine and he was like all right now you're living uncomfortable Matt let's
let's hop on and do some live video I was like oh no no no I don't know about that

(21:55):
he doesn't play that game right and he didn't care he just pushed live on his phone he was
like hey we're live you know at Matt Moreno's new listing over here on one two three this
three you know I was like oh no you know all this stuff went through my head like what did

(22:17):
he just do did he just take my career like you know all these weird thoughts about what
people are gonna think came crashing down and then I realized moments after that that
nobody really cared about anything and the house ended up selling fast and at that point

(22:40):
you know we've been on the market for a while trying to do it that way and then the McCarthy
helped out obviously sure they got my career going yeah you know I was I was totally done
before I met them so yeah but I and that's amazing and that's I think that's one of the
great things about exp is you've got leaders at all levels who can grab you by the hand

(23:03):
and say listen you know what there is a better way you know let me guide you let me take
you through what you need and I think exp is resuscitated a lot of people's careers for
sure there's no question oh yeah absolutely you know it has to do with the people at exp
100% 100% to your point you know you didn't have car reluctancy probably in that video
reluctance you probably just weren't sure what to do yeah you know and there are people

(23:27):
that have car reluctance but don't have video reluctance and they're feeling a video reluctance
but don't have car reluctance and so it really comes down to you know what the what the cause
is you know I'm saying but you can over try but as a as a leader in the office you know
I I see people all the time that I mean their walls are just up and it's it's really interesting

(23:50):
to hear what you spoke about today too because it's gonna make it a little easier to kind
of have a conversation with them about what's going on with why don't you pick up your phone
you call your your friend just second ago I can't you call these people now we know why
now we know why but also I think a big part of it is like you said some people just need

(24:13):
to know what to do need to know what to say you know I'm telling people all the time like
you can't just read a script you have to internalize it as to be a vernacular as to come across
as you unapologetically you you know they that just you have to practice in order to
get better at things right and so let's let's talk about that for a second in terms of you

(24:37):
know the whole emotional call reluctance issue right right if my car reluctance which is usually
due to some sort of self-worth issue my car reluctance is is is rooted in that which usually
is I'm not going to do the things that I need to do to get better at something like that
in a sense so there'll be no amount of role playing no amount of internalization of scripts
no amount of anything that I'm going to do or be willing to do to make that happen because

(25:00):
I don't even want to get on the phone I don't believe I'm worth it right that's you know
the same reason that people don't get on the phone is the same reason that people don't
keep a time block calendar is the same reason that people don't go to the gym is the same
people that reach people don't keep a diet is the same people that reason people have
bad relationships is that it's one if I if I don't believe that I'm worth it it's the
same reason people stay up at night because they can't process what's going on it's it's

(25:23):
if I don't think I'm worth it but I don't believe that I'm worth it I'm not going to
do anything for it you know I like and you know a lot of people come to call reluctant
solutions oh you need to have scripts you need to be enthusiastic you know what you're supposed
to say what you're supposed to say right that's like telling somebody here's how you frost
the cake without teaching me how to bake the cake right right here here's how you frost
the cake but I've never made a cake oh but here's how you frost it right if you bake

(25:46):
the cake doesn't matter how much I tell you if I keep you can't produce a cake yourself
telling you how to frost it across right so I can't I can't tell you all the how to talk
to people and what to do and people are all worried about their listing presentation and
learning how to it's a transaction and and get an offer together and show houses and
that's all great but if you can't get in front of somebody that's all useless right

(26:08):
bottom line is if you can't have a conversation with another human being yeah and so I'm going
to get in that door yeah exactly so for your team remember this is where the empathy comes
in right like you've got to be empathetic and understand and be soft on the person and
hard on the problem like this is not your fault sure anybody who's watching this except
for the people that are trying to get us pre-dating chat with girls except for those people who

(26:30):
popped onto your stream art and giving those nice comments so everybody's watching this
and has been watching and has called reluctance is a very strong possibility that that they've
already realized or they've already come to the conclusion as to where their car reluctance
is from because your brain is interesting it's programmed to answer questions it's programmed
to look for things right that makes sense yeah so anyway I love how people spam like

(26:53):
a real estate so it just happens I just saw it and I'm like wait a second I'm single I'd
like to date the whole point is is I digress but the whole point is is you know once you
start thinking about it just your brain just starts going you know yeah like you know when

(27:14):
I talk to people I start talking I can see them go back in their head I can see and their
brain already starts looking for for what the solution is and then once you know it you
can't I know what you see it yeah and see it there's only one piece of bad news here
it's not going the way on its own even if I identify it even if I say hey this is when
I got beat up at school every day for a year for five years no amount of and I'm Christian

(27:38):
I believe in God but no amount of prayer no amount of begging no amount of anything else
is going to make it go away you got to go do the work yeah so one thing that I want to
kind of segue into a little bit of objection handling sure I know that you're amazing
at that thank you one thing that we've been hearing a lot lately is I just want to see

(28:04):
where the market is going just want to see where it goes before I sure go to that next
level so handling any objection especially market like this is kind of a two-pronged
approach or two pronged yeah you have to know it's going to the market you need to be an
expert we talk about this all the time you know one of the reasons that NAA got so good

(28:25):
at helping people their business because we started in 2008 right right the Titanic had
already taken on taking on water you know I'm saying we were already on our way down so
people needed to learn how to survive and thrive in a market like this and one of the
things we really did that we really made people do is this you got to become an expert like
you need to know what's happening with mortgage rates you need to know what's happening with

(28:46):
prices and ohms you know what's happening in the economy like you need to understand
it nationally regionally and locally everything that's going to impact people in their market
you know I'm saying yeah on the lark I went back to 1955 and looked at home prices actually
since 1953 guess how many huge dips there have ever been in the market since 1953 how many

(29:08):
one month the great recession in fact you can go back to the dot-com bubble you can go
back to the double dip recession in 1991 you go to the worst recession in 1982 proud of
your business you can go to what do you call it you can go to covid nothing like that has
ever caused what happened with that with that huge it was an independent problem is that

(29:32):
was created by the real estate market that's why it was so bad because it was a market
that created that so what you need to be able to explain to people say listen you know what
home prices don't go up and down like they did during the great recession and like they
did after the pandemic if you go from February 2022 July of 2022 the market nationally increased
32% right the case the SMT case Schiller index shows that 32% increase in home prices so

(29:58):
but you need to be able to articulate to people that you need to look at something like Alto's
research and look at the fact that newer things coming on the market are you know on 10 to
15% lower than those that are on the market you let people know that you know on average
half the homes in any given market have been reduced in price you need to let people know
that median and average time on market has gone up you need to let people know that
it's a sellers market but only because there's less inventory right now you know I'm saying

(30:22):
it so you've got to be able to understand absorption rates so you can say to people so
when somebody says I want to make wait and see what the market does great great first
thing you want to know is what your timing what your motivation is right if you're just
out there kicking tires as a seller or a buyer then there's no reason to have a conversation
with these people yeah we want three things that if I'm going to have a long conversation
with you you need to be buying or selling in less than 90 days yes right you've got to

(30:43):
have a life event a death a birth a job transfer wedding divorce get some sort of event that's
got like some actual teeth to it and you got to be able to perform either have to have
equity in your house or virtually everybody does or if you're buying you have to get financing
and have cash or both so that's the first thing I do before we can get to there because
if you're not well if you don't meet all three of those criteria there's no sense in handling

(31:05):
that objection right now if somebody's saying I want to wait until to see what happens to
the market so you know with any good phone handling objection you want to repeat it so
basically what I'm hearing is you think you're going to want to wait to buy a home right and
then you want to cushion it you're like okay that makes complete sense or it's perfectly
reasonable that you want to see that you want to wait it makes sense to me right you got
to peel back the layers of the ending so when you say you want to wait what are you waiting

(31:26):
for right you wait for home prices to go down I mean go up to go down are you waiting for
for interest rates to go down are you waiting to save more money waiting for your credit
to get better are we going to find the problem we're trying to solve we want to isolate right
right so let's just say at this point most people are okay and I just I think I'm on
wait for home prices to go down or I want to wait for interest rates to go down or both

(31:48):
okay listen that's you know hey listen makes complete sense you want that to happen so
here's the deal I follow the real estate market and I follow the mortgagery market pretty consistently
for now home prices have settled and it's highly unlikely that they're going to go down a bunch
over the next couple years in addition to that we're expecting interest rates to continue
to go up probably through the end of this year and even the next year all right so you waiting

(32:11):
not knowing what's going to happen could actually cost you you know cost you a lot of money
when buying the home does that make sense right but what I'm really hearing here is
that you want a good deal is that right because that's really what they want buyers less they
want selection the price what I'm hearing is you really want a good deal right okay great
well look if we get fine to the perfect time with the perfect price and we can get you

(32:32):
a monthly home payment that works with your current budget we could be open to thought
looking to see if there were some homes that met your criteria yeah and very early they're
going to say yes right now can I find that home I don't know but look 50% of the homes
in the new market have been reduced in price a very strong possibility that right yeah
and we've got mortgage buy downs and maybe a point buy downs all kinds of things that

(32:52):
can happen but until I get you in front of me I can't do any of this over the phone so
it's a listen right if I could find you the perfect home with the perfect price and we
can get you a monthly payment that worked within your budget with the house that's out there
today would you be willing to look now yeah if they say yes oh happy day right if they
say no send what will have what would have to happen in order for you to buy your to

(33:13):
move to my house now right and that's it you know I'm saying so it's it's it's it's
repeatedly direction back to them and then a cushion it and then you peel back the layers
of the onion and get the deal get the deal get the deal get the deal find out what you
are solving and then if I could would you yeah and then if you can't solve it obviously
don't waste a whole lot of your time no and listen here's how to move on to the next

(33:35):
one how long you've been in the business now me I've been a realtor for going on six years
how many people over the last six years who weren't motivated by a home I'm bought a home
with you who weren't yeah zero right right there's no sense in twisting somebody's arm
or you know you hear these stories about oh they said they were gonna wait in the next

(33:57):
you know I called them and they bought a house the lecture that happens you know if you if
you if you take somebody's temperature and you get the timing and the motivation right
and they absolutely are not willing after you've asked three or four times to move forward
they're probably not gonna buy a home and you taking them out is not gonna make their
motivation go so high that they're gonna run out and go buy a home through now should

(34:17):
you be nurturing these opportunities absolutely right because the average internet driven lead
I mean most almost every lead source except for referrals converts the rate of one to three
percent fire lead seller these expireds with transfer sale but it doesn't matter it's one
to three percent a nurtured lead creates converts at a rate of eight percent yeah so it's your
benefit but yeah so that's what I would do with everything you can plug any objection

(34:38):
into that formula I gave you that's awesome and then and then just you know and we'll
just let's do another one like hey listen I you know I'm a what's another one here like
let's say sellers you know hey listen you know we're gonna you know we want to wait until
my home prices go up yeah so what I'm saying is you know you want to get home prices go
up that makes sense hey look it's perfectly reasonable that you want to wait for home
prices but let me ask like how much do you want them to go up like how high do you want

(35:02):
them to go yeah well you know I you tease we you know we've noticed in the market settle
we want them to go back up I mean how much are you looking for oh they will yeah they
want to 100 grand okay listen I can appreciate that as an agent they would love for them
to go up 100 grand yeah so but here here here's the thing I'm not sure if you're aware of
this but home prices have already gone up about 30% of the last two years yeah yes they've

(35:23):
settled to stay settled to them you're up from where you were when you bought your house
five or six years ago does that make sense right how long you know and then you you know
how long do you think you can wait to sell your home until home prices go up like that
again it could be three four five six years you really want to wait that long well I'm
asking if I can find a buyer who want to pay your price and close at a time acceptable

(35:45):
to you would you be open to go ahead and put your home on the market now knowing that you
didn't have to sell if we didn't find that buyer yeah right right right and you know the
whole point is we just want to get in the house and when I could see the show me is
always better than tell me yeah you know we talk fast so you guys are gonna have to like
you know point five this is the one exit like you would on all of it you have to slow it
down I talk fast I apologize but show me is better than tell me I can't get anybody to

(36:09):
make the decision to buy a home until I can sit down and show them why waiting would be
bad right I can't get anybody to list their home with me until I can sit down with them
and say listen you know what home prices have come down 10% but they're you're up 40% since
then and it took you know it could take another couple years until we get that 10% back yeah
it's about setting the appointment right like that's it because interest rates are probably

(36:31):
going to go up again keep home prices down because demand is going to be down because
the number of buyers out there who can afford your home is less because of interest rates
so I can't have this conversation I can't bring up charts I can't do you know go over
stuff over the phone so I just got to get in the house you know I'm saying and you can
do whatever you want legally ethically and morally to get in the door with somebody to
go then have the conversation with them based on me am I moving in 90 days or less do I

(36:57):
have to bring my own which almost everybody does and is there a life event am I going
somewhere like if I'm just just the days of tire kicking are way over yeah the days of
shooting for the lights and shooting lights up are way over the days of hey listen if
I could you know like people have to be moving in order to be with them if they're not willing
to do they're not moving if something's not happening you can't waste your time yeah then

(37:20):
answer your question yeah that was awesome okay cool thanks so I wanted to talk a little
bit I know that you just came out with your book I did a couple months ago I think I
may show it yeah absolutely it's showing up at my house either today or tomorrow nice
thank you so much I appreciate that so much yeah so it's a it's called tragic hero and

(37:41):
a like part memoir part personal development book and basically it's it's it's how I overcame
a life of self-destruction pretty much and how by looking at you know what happened when
I was younger and you know I talked about radical honesty radical transparency and radical
responsibility like you know you gotta be transparent with yourself and say listen you

(38:01):
know what I'm not living the life that I want then I can't take it anymore I mean I literally
in that I remember I was laying in bed it was probably here it was like December of 2020
it was laying in bed and I was like I didn't even want to I can't do this anymore I like

(38:23):
I literally the pain was so much you know I decided that I'd want to live but I just
think I couldn't I just couldn't do it anymore you know I'm no problem December of 19 forgiving
so it was like December of 19 and I was in so much pain like I just cannot do this anymore
and I'm like I gotta get help but it took me I went saw a psychiatrist and hired a bunch
of people it took me until July of the next year to find somebody who was able to meet

(38:44):
me her name is Kelly she saved my life but you know it took me you know almost eight months
to figure it out you know but once I started working on myself and doing the things I needed
to it was it was shocked at even how much even six months of work changed my life you
know but if you don't I'm telling you don't do the work nothing's gonna change if you
keep selling 12 10 12 10 9 12 houses every year and nothing changes you've got to change

(39:09):
you've got to make the change right if you keep dating you know here's this the thing
about relationships I mean you've been married for a while right oh yeah you found the right
person you guys work out but there's lots of people that keep dating the same person it's
just that each person is taller shorter fatter wealthier blondier brown here but it's the
same problem right like running into the same people you keep getting into the same relationships

(39:30):
if you keep running into the same problems you keep running out of money like it's it's
it's you you've got to fix it inside yeah that's it if you don't fix it it's never gonna
change and my you know my my mission here is I took me 45 years 45 years it took me 45
out of the 50 from it's been a couple but basically took me 45 years to make the decision

(39:52):
to do what I need to do to fix everything and I don't want people to wait 45 years to
do that you know what I'm saying I do I ruined millions of millions I ruined tons of relationships
people who I've been friends with in 25 30 years that no longer talk to me you know unfortunately
I've got a great relationship with my ex wife but I ruined that relationship you know my
kids you know I one of my kids wouldn't talk to me for months after I got home from prison

(40:13):
like you know I I mean I left prison in 2014 in September 6th 2014 I left prison with 54
sentenced to my name I just sleep in Jay kinders you know guest room car and people at church
had to give me give me money and give me clothes I ate kinders food when I was doing all the
way and I don't want people to do that yeah like I don't want anybody to have to go to

(40:35):
rock bottom and if you're just willing to be honest with yourself and say look I got
to make some changes it'll change what happened here's the thing like if you look at like
you go look at like you know we're the top people in the ex-p Cliff Freeman's got an
amazing story like he was 50 years old divorced living in his mom's house you know right you
know Jay kinder you know he was 19 cutting lawns haven't braided you know I'm saying
I mean yeah you know the every one who everybody's a top person you know at the ex-p was at

(40:59):
a point in their life where they were what I say lower than whale poop you know I'm saying
they made the decision they were gonna not do it even you you're ready to get out of
real estate right you were done yeah I was done right and you had this point at some
point I mean I was still fighting but it financially didn't make any sense no but you still fought
through it you decided you're gonna fight you know and you were you married at the time

(41:21):
yeah your wife was looking at you like you know what Marino you better do something because
we're about the blow the whistle until we get out of the pool right so but the whole point
is is you were awesome with yourself you're like I gotta find a better way yeah and that's
what it takes like that fear is gonna be there you gotta decide you're gonna walk through
it you can't walk through it then you gotta go find out what's causing that fear and then

(41:42):
say okay I'm not gonna let them fear with a day more but I promise you when you do amazing
things are gonna happen for you and I'm living proof of that right living proof of that 2019
I was 51 years old and I decided to make the changes in my life that now allow me to help
other people do the same thing and I just turned 54 in July you know so I'm telling you if you

(42:05):
want to do what you can do but it is up to you so how's the book sales going man I mean
you know it's really blessed it actually you know I did I initially released it to get
some authority and credibility but right they end up being a best seller in four different
categories on on Amazon and I won an award for being you know from the National Academy

(42:26):
of best sellers for it and I've got a couple things I'm working on to go ahead and start
selling more but I'm gonna record the audible hopefully another week or two but yeah I've
been really really blessed and it's just the best thing for me is I get messages from people
to see oh my god I felt like that was my childhood you were talking about we can talk to them
and that was the point is I just you know what like just I want people to have hope so yeah

(42:50):
I appreciate your chance to talk about it thank you absolutely man really good job getting
that book read thank you brother I didn't you know here's the thing like I I've been fortunate
enough was in English from college I've been writing yeah for 25 26 years I just did not
have the time to do it and so I got hooked up with a company who connect me with a woman

(43:11):
named modern jayden row yeah she's my co-author and she I mean she's she wrote it I mean I
wrote it for she wrote a meeting no I know I recorded it she wrote it I look back and
forth but she's an amazing job you did a better job than I would so that's fantastic what
else can I what else can I do for you today anything else I can cover for you or share
with you I think it's about it for this one all right brother I really appreciate your

(43:32):
opportunity thanks for reaching out to me and I've certainly if you ever need anything
for your team you need me to do some training or whatever no cost to be happy to hop in the
phone or on zoom and do something for your team to help with anything okay sounds awesome
thank you I appreciate you man take care see you brother