September 19, 2023 • 27 mins
This conversation is fire!!! We can all learn from those who have gone through it first!
If you don't interrupt them when they are paying attention to your marketing you don't stand a chance
good news, when you localize their attention affordability... you succeed!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, how you doing Jeff?
(00:25):
I'm good Matt.
I'm good man.
How are you?
Good.
Good to see you man.
It's exciting to be on with you.
Happy new year and all that good stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
So that was fun yesterday going on your mastermind and laying down some information.
(00:45):
You know, I really enjoyed that.
I appreciate you having me on there.
Well, we appreciate you coming on man.
It's something that has probably been the most exciting thing about this year so far.
Last year we cultivated this great group of agents as you know and we talked a little
bit about the common theme between all those people but last year we did a good job of
cultivating that group.
Everybody who's part of the group, it's really a community and then this year we all kind
(01:09):
of agreed that the theme is accountability.
So like you saw, we've got a dashboard, people are filling out Monday, what we call a Monday
mindset accountability form where they're making that public declaration, what their
goals are for the week and then on Friday they're filling out a Friday finishing form.
And measuring the progress that's made and then we're following what we consider the
(01:30):
second rule of making a real true commitment and that's that we're making it hurt by on
every one of those calls twice a week that like you were on, we pull it up and we hold
each other accountable.
So it's been fun.
It looked, it was really neat and interesting to me to watch the way that the accountability
(01:50):
changes people's mindsets almost instantly.
You had a couple of people on there that had phone call reluctance and it's like once
they started talking about it all of a sudden, well, I guess I could do this or I could do
it this way or we could find a way around the uncomfortable and live uncomfortably.
Yeah, for sure.
(02:12):
I mean, I believe in a lot of others do too that when you transition into a growth mindset,
you start becoming solution focused and less problem focused and so anytime we can switch
that perspective or the mental model that we're approaching things with anytime we can
(02:33):
make a switch like that and get more focused on the solution, I think we grow and we tend
to enjoy it more.
And you know, sometimes it's hard to do that on your own and you know, that's why a master
mind community is great for that sort of thing because regularly you have people resetting
your switch.
Right.
In my garage, I've got a circuit breaker or that GCI switch flips all the time.
(02:57):
Sometimes I got to go out there and reset it to get the work properly.
But you know, sometimes we all need that.
I couldn't picture doing this business like when I first started with, you know, just
kind of flying by the seat of my pants without having somebody, you know, here at where we
are, we've got Steve McCarthy that, you know, is my personal accountability coach and he
(03:20):
makes sure that I stay on top of my phone calls, make sure I stay on top of doing all
my work, you know, and I just couldn't picture not having that and still having the level
of success that I've found, you know.
Yeah, it's tough to imagine, especially when you found somebody like that that has stretched
you, you know, there's the Navy, Navy Seals, a special forces show that's on TV right now
(03:44):
where they're taking celebrities and having them go through challenges.
And you know, a lot of that philosophy is about you like stretching a rubber band, you
stretch it and then you let go and then you stretch it a little bit more and it goes a
little farther and then you let go and relax it and you stretch a little bit more.
And so when you find somebody who has stretched you and you've gone further than you thought,
(04:07):
it's hard to imagine what you could have done by yourself.
I know Steve, Steve's put in the work, you know, he's stretched himself and other people
have helped him stretch farther than he could himself.
But you know, it's definitely hard to imagine.
I spent, as I told you on one of our private conversations, I spent almost 20 years in the
investment world.
So those of you that are old enough to have seen Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross or the movie Wall
(04:32):
Street or Boiler Room or these days Wolf of Wall Street, like I lived that environment
for almost 20 years and it was when I was younger, fun, made a whole bunch of money.
But man, it was, you know, hardcore ABC always be closing one call close.
I mean, the stuff that you hear, see even the stuff in the back room got scared when
(04:56):
I talked about it.
I had a lot of this show.
But, you know, but the advantage that you see in all those movies, I take you one thing,
you don't see in any of those examples is you never see somebody in a room by themselves.
Because you can't usually manufacture the kind of positive mental attitude and the kind
(05:17):
of enthusiasm that you need to do that job by yourself.
And man, today, when because of COVID and a lot of other things, a lot of people are
at home in an office or sometimes, you know, you're sitting in your silo by yourself in
isolation and it's tough to get motivated to call your database, to get motivated to
(05:37):
call expired and for sale by all to get motivated to go out and doorknock like you do.
It's tough when you're the when you're the player, the coach in the crowd who's posted
a raw, raw you on.
Yeah, I remember when COVID first started, you know, we were working at home.
And it was a nightmare.
(05:58):
Because, you know, we had the kids like right there because, you know, they were doing their
schooling from home right at the kitchen table.
And then we had Janelle and I, my Janelle's my wife, we had a just a big old desk, you
know, that we had set up and she was on one side of it.
And I was on the other and it's like trying to get anything done was just it wasn't working
(06:22):
out, you know.
I don't know how anyone can do that.
You know, you can can work from the home.
Plus, your mind says it's different when you're at home.
Like personally, when I'm at home, I just want to be with the kids.
I want to be with Janelle.
I want to be just like hanging out on the couch, quiet, watching TV, doing, doing at
home stuff, you know, not, not having to grind.
(06:46):
Who wouldn't, who wouldn't, right?
Who wouldn't that's comfortable and that's enjoyable.
And there's a German term called Sitzfleisch.
And you know, what it means is it means to sit in one place for an extended period of
time focused on doing one thing.
(07:07):
And when you have all those other distractions on it's, it's hard to do that.
Right.
You know, and I think it's funny you mentioned everybody's schedule has adjusted recently.
I learned a story from Joe D. Desena who created the Spartan races for those of you that are
familiar and he was sharing, he was in China touring offices and he was in an office that
(07:34):
had 1200 or so employees and he's walking through one of the floors and he looks over
and he sees like some people with their head on their desk taking a nap and he goes to
the guy who's giving them a tour.
He's like, what's up with those people?
And he goes, oh, they work 20 hour shifts and we let them take a nap, you know, for
like 20 minutes a day.
And then he goes, and so then I keep walking a little bit further and I see like tents.
(08:00):
I'm talking like North Face tents in the corner and I'm like, what's up with those people?
Oh, those people work three days nonstop and we allow them to catch up and get a nap.
And so, you know, his point was this whole thing about a four day work week, whatever
your opinion is on that, if we have to compete against that, we're going to have a hard time
(08:21):
doing it by, you know, by creating more distractions by trying to work in a silo at home just to
relate it back to what we were talking about.
Yeah, absolutely.
So you were talking about some race yesterday that was like, there's like the Spartan race,
which is super hard or whatever.
And then what was the other one that you were talking about a little bit?
(08:45):
It sounded just nuts.
Well, the name of it, I'm sure just that rules out 99% of the population.
It's called the death race.
Yeah.
And to believe I have never heard of the death race.
It's not that she's a Quentin Tarantino movie either.
This is a real deal.
And so, you know, I run a lot.
I just got back literally in time to make this call.
(09:05):
Just got back from running a 5k, ran 13 or 15 miles on Sunday.
And, you know, I've run the four by four by 48 every four hours or every four hours,
four miles for 48 hours and did it, you know, ultramarathons and all that.
And but I've never heard about this death race.
Oh my God.
And so you can't really even find that information about it.
(09:28):
It happens out in the mountains of Vermont.
It's thrown by Joe De Desena who started the Spartan races.
There's about 200 to 300 people that will apply each year.
You don't know when it exactly starts.
You don't have a clue like what's involved, the obstacles.
You don't know how long it is.
It's just called over at a particular time when they think that you've suffered enough.
(09:54):
It's just unbelievable.
It's unbelievable.
And the stories of the people that struggle to make through it are also pretty unbelievable.
I bet.
You know, death race.
It's just yikes.
You're right.
Hey, but I'm going to tell you what, I'm going to tell you one thing, another lesson
from him that I find interesting and going back to, you know, this year is about accountability,
(10:18):
you know, for us and our mastermind group and also automation.
Okay.
On the tech side, I think everybody who's working with technology and that's everybody
listening to this call, we got to find a way to automate more of those tasks.
Okay.
But you got to be accountable in order to implement that stuff.
But here's the thing about the Spartan races is that when he originally started it, he
(10:38):
would find that he would have thousands of people register and pay money and not show
up for the race.
Right?
They just wouldn't show up.
It was too cold that morning.
Right.
Just decided to ask a long week of work.
They didn't want to drive, whatever it would be.
So what he started to do is he started making it a requirement that in order to be accepted,
(11:01):
you had to actually make a public declaration and make a post or create a classified ad and
actually declare to people who you held in a high standard that you were going to this
race.
And immediately by doing that, people showed up.
(11:21):
And so going back to, you know, in our mastermind group, we believed that the three things and
what we hold ourselves to is when it comes to commitments, we need to make it public.
We got to find a way to make it hurt.
And we got to take away all exit strategies.
In other words, burn the boats.
So they're all create the desperate ground.
(11:42):
Sun Tzu says desperate ground.
If there is no way to retreat back home, it's either ride or die.
And you get the best out of people in that situation because there's no backup plan.
Yeah.
And if you get acid, I'll be giving you that shirt or no, I got this at a trail race.
This is in Texas.
There's an organization called and I'm sure it's, you know, David Goggins, those of you
(12:05):
out there who, who know who David Goggins is.
He's an author wrote, he hurt me recently released, never finished as an amazing story.
But I think everybody, he seems to have made this outside of service members community
who are familiar with this and historians who might know this, the reference to Julius
Caesar back in the day who burnt the boats.
(12:26):
His army was intimidated by the opposing forces, wasn't motivated to fight.
And so in order to create that motivation, he burnt the boats.
And so there wasn't no going back home guys.
We're going that way.
And that's it.
And so whether it's him or you heard it from David Goggins, a lot of people have heard
it and there's an organization called trail running over Texas.
(12:49):
They put one a lot of trail running races and this one of the shirts.
How did you get so into running?
You know, I wasn't.
Okay.
I wasn't.
I still am not listening.
I have to talk myself into it every time I rarely am like, all right, ready to go.
Lace up those.
I see you post like all the time that you've just got done running like an insane amount
of miles and you know, I'm consistent.
(13:12):
Yeah, I'm consistent.
I started probably four years ago.
I'd have to go, but I'd have to go on Facebook and look because I pretty much have
created my own public declaration by making that post every time.
And so if you go on my personal Facebook page and you scroll, unfortunately, good or bad,
you're probably going to see 90% running stuff because I'm making a point.
(13:32):
It's part of my process where I have connected it to my process, which allows me to be more
consistent with it.
But probably about four years ago, a buddy of mine went to a place here called Arbor
Hills Nature Preserve and it's a great place to take dogs and there's trails and but I
didn't run.
Arbor ran.
Okay, I grew up in California.
I was a skateboarder and aggressive sports, but running.
(13:54):
No, thank you.
And one day we went out there that Arbor Hills and for whatever reason ran quite a distance
and it just triggered something in me and I tend to like things that make you want to
quit and that are a mental challenge more than almost physical.
And so running, I believe definitely is that.
And so from that day forward, I started kind of consistently running in 2019.
(14:16):
I think it was I had set the goal to no 2020 was it because I set the goal to run 2020
miles in 2020 and I didn't make it ran over 1000 miles.
Didn't make it.
Awesome.
If you break it down, it's not it's not that far per day.
But I tell you just like whatever those high leverage activities that we should all be doing
(14:40):
every day.
Man, if I take a day off, it just rolls into the next day and pretty soon I ended up having
to run 10 miles every day to keep up pace and where I needed to go.
So those days I'll feel good.
But the next day when you got to put in and that next day could be tomorrow, it could
be the end of the year, the end of the quarter or when rents do.
But when you got to put in that extra mile because of those days, you took off rarely
(15:02):
is the day that you took off worth putting in that extra mileage at the end.
I hear you.
So how long have you been working with NAA?
I hooked up with Jay and Mike and NAA in 2015.
I'd spent like I mentioned almost 20 years in the investment side of the business, you
(15:26):
know, to paint a picture of what that really means.
It's cold calling investors across the country, you know, 300 calls a day or three hours of
talk time, sending out prospectuses, calling people up, trying to get them to, you know,
ask six figure amounts, write a check over the phone, sight unseen, all that kind of
stuff.
(15:46):
There was nothing really glamorous about it unless you made some money and you quickly
found a way to waste that.
Trust me.
But I was looking for a change, you know, you tend to get burnt out or you get pushed
out or make a choice to leave something that you don't enjoy regardless of what the material
benefits are.
(16:07):
Right.
You don't have material benefits, but you don't enjoy it, you'll find a way to quickly
make those material things disappear, whether through self-sabotage or whatever.
And so I was at a point where I wanted to change and had some skill sets that were applicable
in a lot of areas.
I hooked up with Jay and Mike by answering a corny ad, I think on Craigslist or something
(16:27):
at the time and walked into a brokerage.
They had an Addison Texas sat down with Wally Bressler.
It was one of the top strategic real estate coaches in the business.
Yeah, I talked to him.
Yeah, we said, I think you're overqualified for this job, man.
You know, you sure you want to come in here?
I said, dude, I'm just starting over and I'm willing to do whatever.
And so I joined Jay and Mike at a brokerage with about 10 inside sales agents who made
(16:49):
calls to expired, canceled for sale by owner, home value lead, circle prospecting data.
It's all they did for eight hours a day.
And I sat down in cubicles and made those calls along with them and set listing appointments.
We had a predominantly listing driven business closing over 300 transactions a year with
that model.
And so that was the initiation of my relationship with Jay and Mike and NAEA and since that
(17:18):
role has grown a lot over time and we've done a lot of great things and helped a lot of
great agents and continue to.
I think that NAEA is like the most amazing coaching that I've and training that I've
ever had.
And it's really interesting to hear that you got into this relationship with them through
(17:39):
the real estate side, making calls and doing the nitty gritty that we all do every single
day, you know, to get the job done and it developed into the National Association of
Expert Advisors, you know.
This just blows my mind, everything that it does for the agent, you know, like any time
(18:03):
I've had any kind of question, I go back into training modules and I look for the information
there.
I mean, it's there, you know.
Yeah, what I find interesting is, especially right now, is stuff that you might have considered
old school, you know, back to new school, you know, and getting back to basics like
(18:27):
you talked about with our mastermind group and what Jay and Mike created initially was
built for times of uncertainty, times of, you know, a competitive market.
There's roughly four million or so licensed real estate agents in the country and you
need to find a way to stand out and differentiate yourself.
(18:49):
And that's what NAEA's training was really about at the core is differentiation, positioning
yourself as an expert advisor versus a traditional real estate agent and being able to really
unpack and describe in a way that's meaningful to your prospect, your buyer or seller, being
able to describe what your value proposition is.
And a lot of people have never even heard the term value proposition, let alone know
(19:13):
how to articulate that in a meaningful way so that it influences the decision of somebody
choosing to work with you.
And so that's what our training was about.
But any training, you've got to have something that you rely on as a process.
And that process is the path out of poverty.
Okay, not making any commissions, whatever it might be is a process that's the path out
(19:39):
of that situation.
Yeah.
And, you know, you brought up, people just need to know the process like so many places
that you'd go, so many different brokerages, they all have different values, they have
different ideals, right?
Janelle and I were at a different brokerage before EXP and they just didn't teach us what
(20:05):
we needed to know.
You know, we're like, what do we need to do?
Well, you need to grind harder.
Okay.
At what?
You know, it wasn't like, okay, go ahead and make phone calls.
Okay.
We need to make phone numbers coming from, you know?
They weren't like, okay, go ahead and invest in Red X or, you know, get one of these automated
(20:26):
systems to generate these numbers to help you make calls.
You know, it was just grind harder.
And once we came over here and we got hooked up, you know, with the McCarthy's and NAEA,
I mean, it just completely turned the light bulb on, you know, like really turned our
(20:47):
whole business around, turned our mindsets around.
I think it's a really great thing that is offered to agents at every level.
You can get something out of it.
And like you said, we're in a time right now where it is back to the basics.
It really is sitting down and calling your database, making sure that you're reaching
(21:11):
out to those people that have been reading your emails and automated text messages, but
are probably wondering, is this person going to call me or are they just, you know, stringing
me along?
Because at some point, somebody's going to call that person in your database and they're
(21:32):
going to get the business, you know?
So I think you're right.
Right now with the way that the market has shifted, I mean, if you're not knocking on
doors and doing open houses and calling your database, you might be falling behind.
Yeah.
(21:52):
And you got to interrupt people where they're at these days, okay?
You don't go out on Main Street and look for the general store.
You go online and you find, you know, information through your feed or on the internet and whoever's
paid the most, whether it's running an ad or they've got the best SEO, you know, practices
(22:14):
or whatever it is, right?
People are interrupting you where you're at and that's how most of us are choosing to
engage with who we do.
Now there's familiarity that's built up over time.
And so when we make that choice, you know, it's oftentimes because of some of, you know,
(22:36):
the familiarity that's been built up over time, but you got to interrupt people where
they're at and reach out to them.
Yeah.
I love that you brought that up because, you know, every real estate agent, for some
reason, like their goal is to have a billboard.
And I thought about that one day because, I mean, I got there to that point where I
(22:59):
was like, why do I want a billboard?
And I really just like broke it down.
Matt, why do you want a billboard?
It's so I could see myself driving to work in back every day.
You know what I mean?
Like when it comes down to it, everything that I've done as far as search engine optimization
for a business, that's what, that's where the eyeballs are, you know, it's that internet
(23:24):
visibility, that's where the money should go, and it's a whole heck of a lot cheaper
than having a billboard and a radio ad.
And, you know, like everybody's going to see it when they go online.
When they hit Facebook, they hit Google first, your ads coming up, you know, if you attach
(23:44):
an ad pixel to a listing, it's going to come up every single time those keywords are hit.
And it's just a whole lot more beneficial for your business to make sure that your SEO
is in line, then have the billboard.
So you can, you know, or the, I always think it's funny when people get a bus bench, right?
(24:10):
Like I want people that are taking the bus to know that I'm a realtor, more than likely,
some of them might be in the market, but I just don't feel like that's my target market,
right?
Whereas with internet marketing, you can, you know, use just a little bit of keyword
marketing goes a long way.
(24:31):
And yes, it's just way more beneficial and way cheaper.
Well, and, you know, it's definitely a place to start.
I think it, you know, it depends on the situation.
Listen, if you're in a small market or, you know, in an area where there's that main intersection
that gets a lot of views, because as you said, you know, Matt, what we're talking about is
(24:54):
eyeballs and where they're at today.
Okay.
Everybody back in the day listened to the radio, then it was TV, you know, and through
a lot of other mediums.
But today, you know, most of the eyeballs are on their phone.
So if the goal is to get the most impressions, there's a much cheaper way of doing it.
Okay.
(25:15):
Now, if you know what your metrics are, and you know, there's a lot of people probably
who are doing large teams who are doing radio and, and doing billboards and things like that.
But I promise you that along with that, and what creates exponential rates of return for
the radio ads and the billboard and everything else are those processes that underlie that.
(25:39):
And it's, you know, if somebody sees a billboard and they happen to go on and type my name
into their web browser, what's going to come up then?
And while they might see my billboard going to and from work or whatever they do daily,
when that point comes in which they're ready to make a decision, okay, you have people that
(26:01):
are in the consideration stage, and you have people that are in the decision stage, and
you actually have people that are in the awareness stage who just realized that they might need
to make a move.
But when you've got somebody who's in the decision stage, what are the chances that
they're going to be looking at your billboard when they're ready to make that decision versus
the chances that with a well planned strategy, you could show up in their feed and get the
(26:24):
benefit of familiarity because of the billboard.
So you create, as J. Abraham refers to, you create an omnipresence where all that stuff
works together to attract business, you know, rather than you having to chase.
And for most agents, you know, for most, it's much more affordable to start with some of
(26:50):
the things that you're talking about.
And the rate of return is typically a lot, a lot higher for them.
Yeah, that's the case for me personally.
Yeah.
You know, I just, I'm kind of cheap though when it comes down to it.
I watch every little.
Well, listen, you can run, you can run every billboard you want.
And what really matters is what your profitability is.
(27:12):
You know, there's teams that are doing a thousand units a year and have zero profitability.
Okay.
You could be closing 50 deals a year and have profitability.
And so, you know, there's a big, big difference between the two.
For sure.
Well, hey man, I really appreciate you coming on today.
(27:34):
I don't want to take up too much of your time.
Stick around for a moment.
I will do, man.
Thank you for having me on, Matt.
All right.
Thanks a lot, Scott.
(27:57):
Right, everyone.
Sorry, Tyler.
Thank you so much, empowered.
Hey, how you doing Jeff?
(00:25):
I'm good Matt.
I'm good man.
How are you?
Good.
Good to see you man.
It's exciting to be on with you.
Happy new year and all that good stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
So that was fun yesterday going on your mastermind and laying down some information.
(00:45):
You know, I really enjoyed that.
I appreciate you having me on there.
Well, we appreciate you coming on man.
It's something that has probably been the most exciting thing about this year so far.
Last year we cultivated this great group of agents as you know and we talked a little
bit about the common theme between all those people but last year we did a good job of
cultivating that group.
Everybody who's part of the group, it's really a community and then this year we all kind
(01:09):
of agreed that the theme is accountability.
So like you saw, we've got a dashboard, people are filling out Monday, what we call a Monday
mindset accountability form where they're making that public declaration, what their
goals are for the week and then on Friday they're filling out a Friday finishing form.
And measuring the progress that's made and then we're following what we consider the
(01:30):
second rule of making a real true commitment and that's that we're making it hurt by on
every one of those calls twice a week that like you were on, we pull it up and we hold
each other accountable.
So it's been fun.
It looked, it was really neat and interesting to me to watch the way that the accountability
(01:50):
changes people's mindsets almost instantly.
You had a couple of people on there that had phone call reluctance and it's like once
they started talking about it all of a sudden, well, I guess I could do this or I could do
it this way or we could find a way around the uncomfortable and live uncomfortably.
Yeah, for sure.
(02:12):
I mean, I believe in a lot of others do too that when you transition into a growth mindset,
you start becoming solution focused and less problem focused and so anytime we can switch
that perspective or the mental model that we're approaching things with anytime we can
(02:33):
make a switch like that and get more focused on the solution, I think we grow and we tend
to enjoy it more.
And you know, sometimes it's hard to do that on your own and you know, that's why a master
mind community is great for that sort of thing because regularly you have people resetting
your switch.
Right.
In my garage, I've got a circuit breaker or that GCI switch flips all the time.
(02:57):
Sometimes I got to go out there and reset it to get the work properly.
But you know, sometimes we all need that.
I couldn't picture doing this business like when I first started with, you know, just
kind of flying by the seat of my pants without having somebody, you know, here at where we
are, we've got Steve McCarthy that, you know, is my personal accountability coach and he
(03:20):
makes sure that I stay on top of my phone calls, make sure I stay on top of doing all
my work, you know, and I just couldn't picture not having that and still having the level
of success that I've found, you know.
Yeah, it's tough to imagine, especially when you found somebody like that that has stretched
you, you know, there's the Navy, Navy Seals, a special forces show that's on TV right now
(03:44):
where they're taking celebrities and having them go through challenges.
And you know, a lot of that philosophy is about you like stretching a rubber band, you
stretch it and then you let go and then you stretch it a little bit more and it goes a
little farther and then you let go and relax it and you stretch a little bit more.
And so when you find somebody who has stretched you and you've gone further than you thought,
(04:07):
it's hard to imagine what you could have done by yourself.
I know Steve, Steve's put in the work, you know, he's stretched himself and other people
have helped him stretch farther than he could himself.
But you know, it's definitely hard to imagine.
I spent, as I told you on one of our private conversations, I spent almost 20 years in the
investment world.
So those of you that are old enough to have seen Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross or the movie Wall
(04:32):
Street or Boiler Room or these days Wolf of Wall Street, like I lived that environment
for almost 20 years and it was when I was younger, fun, made a whole bunch of money.
But man, it was, you know, hardcore ABC always be closing one call close.
I mean, the stuff that you hear, see even the stuff in the back room got scared when
(04:56):
I talked about it.
I had a lot of this show.
But, you know, but the advantage that you see in all those movies, I take you one thing,
you don't see in any of those examples is you never see somebody in a room by themselves.
Because you can't usually manufacture the kind of positive mental attitude and the kind
(05:17):
of enthusiasm that you need to do that job by yourself.
And man, today, when because of COVID and a lot of other things, a lot of people are
at home in an office or sometimes, you know, you're sitting in your silo by yourself in
isolation and it's tough to get motivated to call your database, to get motivated to
(05:37):
call expired and for sale by all to get motivated to go out and doorknock like you do.
It's tough when you're the when you're the player, the coach in the crowd who's posted
a raw, raw you on.
Yeah, I remember when COVID first started, you know, we were working at home.
And it was a nightmare.
(05:58):
Because, you know, we had the kids like right there because, you know, they were doing their
schooling from home right at the kitchen table.
And then we had Janelle and I, my Janelle's my wife, we had a just a big old desk, you
know, that we had set up and she was on one side of it.
And I was on the other and it's like trying to get anything done was just it wasn't working
(06:22):
out, you know.
I don't know how anyone can do that.
You know, you can can work from the home.
Plus, your mind says it's different when you're at home.
Like personally, when I'm at home, I just want to be with the kids.
I want to be with Janelle.
I want to be just like hanging out on the couch, quiet, watching TV, doing, doing at
home stuff, you know, not, not having to grind.
(06:46):
Who wouldn't, who wouldn't, right?
Who wouldn't that's comfortable and that's enjoyable.
And there's a German term called Sitzfleisch.
And you know, what it means is it means to sit in one place for an extended period of
time focused on doing one thing.
(07:07):
And when you have all those other distractions on it's, it's hard to do that.
Right.
You know, and I think it's funny you mentioned everybody's schedule has adjusted recently.
I learned a story from Joe D. Desena who created the Spartan races for those of you that are
familiar and he was sharing, he was in China touring offices and he was in an office that
(07:34):
had 1200 or so employees and he's walking through one of the floors and he looks over
and he sees like some people with their head on their desk taking a nap and he goes to
the guy who's giving them a tour.
He's like, what's up with those people?
And he goes, oh, they work 20 hour shifts and we let them take a nap, you know, for
like 20 minutes a day.
And then he goes, and so then I keep walking a little bit further and I see like tents.
(08:00):
I'm talking like North Face tents in the corner and I'm like, what's up with those people?
Oh, those people work three days nonstop and we allow them to catch up and get a nap.
And so, you know, his point was this whole thing about a four day work week, whatever
your opinion is on that, if we have to compete against that, we're going to have a hard time
(08:21):
doing it by, you know, by creating more distractions by trying to work in a silo at home just to
relate it back to what we were talking about.
Yeah, absolutely.
So you were talking about some race yesterday that was like, there's like the Spartan race,
which is super hard or whatever.
And then what was the other one that you were talking about a little bit?
(08:45):
It sounded just nuts.
Well, the name of it, I'm sure just that rules out 99% of the population.
It's called the death race.
Yeah.
And to believe I have never heard of the death race.
It's not that she's a Quentin Tarantino movie either.
This is a real deal.
And so, you know, I run a lot.
I just got back literally in time to make this call.
(09:05):
Just got back from running a 5k, ran 13 or 15 miles on Sunday.
And, you know, I've run the four by four by 48 every four hours or every four hours,
four miles for 48 hours and did it, you know, ultramarathons and all that.
And but I've never heard about this death race.
Oh my God.
And so you can't really even find that information about it.
(09:28):
It happens out in the mountains of Vermont.
It's thrown by Joe De Desena who started the Spartan races.
There's about 200 to 300 people that will apply each year.
You don't know when it exactly starts.
You don't have a clue like what's involved, the obstacles.
You don't know how long it is.
It's just called over at a particular time when they think that you've suffered enough.
(09:54):
It's just unbelievable.
It's unbelievable.
And the stories of the people that struggle to make through it are also pretty unbelievable.
I bet.
You know, death race.
It's just yikes.
You're right.
Hey, but I'm going to tell you what, I'm going to tell you one thing, another lesson
from him that I find interesting and going back to, you know, this year is about accountability,
(10:18):
you know, for us and our mastermind group and also automation.
Okay.
On the tech side, I think everybody who's working with technology and that's everybody
listening to this call, we got to find a way to automate more of those tasks.
Okay.
But you got to be accountable in order to implement that stuff.
But here's the thing about the Spartan races is that when he originally started it, he
(10:38):
would find that he would have thousands of people register and pay money and not show
up for the race.
Right?
They just wouldn't show up.
It was too cold that morning.
Right.
Just decided to ask a long week of work.
They didn't want to drive, whatever it would be.
So what he started to do is he started making it a requirement that in order to be accepted,
(11:01):
you had to actually make a public declaration and make a post or create a classified ad and
actually declare to people who you held in a high standard that you were going to this
race.
And immediately by doing that, people showed up.
(11:21):
And so going back to, you know, in our mastermind group, we believed that the three things and
what we hold ourselves to is when it comes to commitments, we need to make it public.
We got to find a way to make it hurt.
And we got to take away all exit strategies.
In other words, burn the boats.
So they're all create the desperate ground.
(11:42):
Sun Tzu says desperate ground.
If there is no way to retreat back home, it's either ride or die.
And you get the best out of people in that situation because there's no backup plan.
Yeah.
And if you get acid, I'll be giving you that shirt or no, I got this at a trail race.
This is in Texas.
There's an organization called and I'm sure it's, you know, David Goggins, those of you
(12:05):
out there who, who know who David Goggins is.
He's an author wrote, he hurt me recently released, never finished as an amazing story.
But I think everybody, he seems to have made this outside of service members community
who are familiar with this and historians who might know this, the reference to Julius
Caesar back in the day who burnt the boats.
(12:26):
His army was intimidated by the opposing forces, wasn't motivated to fight.
And so in order to create that motivation, he burnt the boats.
And so there wasn't no going back home guys.
We're going that way.
And that's it.
And so whether it's him or you heard it from David Goggins, a lot of people have heard
it and there's an organization called trail running over Texas.
(12:49):
They put one a lot of trail running races and this one of the shirts.
How did you get so into running?
You know, I wasn't.
Okay.
I wasn't.
I still am not listening.
I have to talk myself into it every time I rarely am like, all right, ready to go.
Lace up those.
I see you post like all the time that you've just got done running like an insane amount
of miles and you know, I'm consistent.
(13:12):
Yeah, I'm consistent.
I started probably four years ago.
I'd have to go, but I'd have to go on Facebook and look because I pretty much have
created my own public declaration by making that post every time.
And so if you go on my personal Facebook page and you scroll, unfortunately, good or bad,
you're probably going to see 90% running stuff because I'm making a point.
(13:32):
It's part of my process where I have connected it to my process, which allows me to be more
consistent with it.
But probably about four years ago, a buddy of mine went to a place here called Arbor
Hills Nature Preserve and it's a great place to take dogs and there's trails and but I
didn't run.
Arbor ran.
Okay, I grew up in California.
I was a skateboarder and aggressive sports, but running.
(13:54):
No, thank you.
And one day we went out there that Arbor Hills and for whatever reason ran quite a distance
and it just triggered something in me and I tend to like things that make you want to
quit and that are a mental challenge more than almost physical.
And so running, I believe definitely is that.
And so from that day forward, I started kind of consistently running in 2019.
(14:16):
I think it was I had set the goal to no 2020 was it because I set the goal to run 2020
miles in 2020 and I didn't make it ran over 1000 miles.
Didn't make it.
Awesome.
If you break it down, it's not it's not that far per day.
But I tell you just like whatever those high leverage activities that we should all be doing
(14:40):
every day.
Man, if I take a day off, it just rolls into the next day and pretty soon I ended up having
to run 10 miles every day to keep up pace and where I needed to go.
So those days I'll feel good.
But the next day when you got to put in and that next day could be tomorrow, it could
be the end of the year, the end of the quarter or when rents do.
But when you got to put in that extra mile because of those days, you took off rarely
(15:02):
is the day that you took off worth putting in that extra mileage at the end.
I hear you.
So how long have you been working with NAA?
I hooked up with Jay and Mike and NAA in 2015.
I'd spent like I mentioned almost 20 years in the investment side of the business, you
(15:26):
know, to paint a picture of what that really means.
It's cold calling investors across the country, you know, 300 calls a day or three hours of
talk time, sending out prospectuses, calling people up, trying to get them to, you know,
ask six figure amounts, write a check over the phone, sight unseen, all that kind of
stuff.
(15:46):
There was nothing really glamorous about it unless you made some money and you quickly
found a way to waste that.
Trust me.
But I was looking for a change, you know, you tend to get burnt out or you get pushed
out or make a choice to leave something that you don't enjoy regardless of what the material
benefits are.
(16:07):
Right.
You don't have material benefits, but you don't enjoy it, you'll find a way to quickly
make those material things disappear, whether through self-sabotage or whatever.
And so I was at a point where I wanted to change and had some skill sets that were applicable
in a lot of areas.
I hooked up with Jay and Mike by answering a corny ad, I think on Craigslist or something
(16:27):
at the time and walked into a brokerage.
They had an Addison Texas sat down with Wally Bressler.
It was one of the top strategic real estate coaches in the business.
Yeah, I talked to him.
Yeah, we said, I think you're overqualified for this job, man.
You know, you sure you want to come in here?
I said, dude, I'm just starting over and I'm willing to do whatever.
And so I joined Jay and Mike at a brokerage with about 10 inside sales agents who made
(16:49):
calls to expired, canceled for sale by owner, home value lead, circle prospecting data.
It's all they did for eight hours a day.
And I sat down in cubicles and made those calls along with them and set listing appointments.
We had a predominantly listing driven business closing over 300 transactions a year with
that model.
And so that was the initiation of my relationship with Jay and Mike and NAEA and since that
(17:18):
role has grown a lot over time and we've done a lot of great things and helped a lot of
great agents and continue to.
I think that NAEA is like the most amazing coaching that I've and training that I've
ever had.
And it's really interesting to hear that you got into this relationship with them through
(17:39):
the real estate side, making calls and doing the nitty gritty that we all do every single
day, you know, to get the job done and it developed into the National Association of
Expert Advisors, you know.
This just blows my mind, everything that it does for the agent, you know, like any time
(18:03):
I've had any kind of question, I go back into training modules and I look for the information
there.
I mean, it's there, you know.
Yeah, what I find interesting is, especially right now, is stuff that you might have considered
old school, you know, back to new school, you know, and getting back to basics like
(18:27):
you talked about with our mastermind group and what Jay and Mike created initially was
built for times of uncertainty, times of, you know, a competitive market.
There's roughly four million or so licensed real estate agents in the country and you
need to find a way to stand out and differentiate yourself.
(18:49):
And that's what NAEA's training was really about at the core is differentiation, positioning
yourself as an expert advisor versus a traditional real estate agent and being able to really
unpack and describe in a way that's meaningful to your prospect, your buyer or seller, being
able to describe what your value proposition is.
And a lot of people have never even heard the term value proposition, let alone know
(19:13):
how to articulate that in a meaningful way so that it influences the decision of somebody
choosing to work with you.
And so that's what our training was about.
But any training, you've got to have something that you rely on as a process.
And that process is the path out of poverty.
Okay, not making any commissions, whatever it might be is a process that's the path out
(19:39):
of that situation.
Yeah.
And, you know, you brought up, people just need to know the process like so many places
that you'd go, so many different brokerages, they all have different values, they have
different ideals, right?
Janelle and I were at a different brokerage before EXP and they just didn't teach us what
(20:05):
we needed to know.
You know, we're like, what do we need to do?
Well, you need to grind harder.
Okay.
At what?
You know, it wasn't like, okay, go ahead and make phone calls.
Okay.
We need to make phone numbers coming from, you know?
They weren't like, okay, go ahead and invest in Red X or, you know, get one of these automated
(20:26):
systems to generate these numbers to help you make calls.
You know, it was just grind harder.
And once we came over here and we got hooked up, you know, with the McCarthy's and NAEA,
I mean, it just completely turned the light bulb on, you know, like really turned our
(20:47):
whole business around, turned our mindsets around.
I think it's a really great thing that is offered to agents at every level.
You can get something out of it.
And like you said, we're in a time right now where it is back to the basics.
It really is sitting down and calling your database, making sure that you're reaching
(21:11):
out to those people that have been reading your emails and automated text messages, but
are probably wondering, is this person going to call me or are they just, you know, stringing
me along?
Because at some point, somebody's going to call that person in your database and they're
(21:32):
going to get the business, you know?
So I think you're right.
Right now with the way that the market has shifted, I mean, if you're not knocking on
doors and doing open houses and calling your database, you might be falling behind.
Yeah.
(21:52):
And you got to interrupt people where they're at these days, okay?
You don't go out on Main Street and look for the general store.
You go online and you find, you know, information through your feed or on the internet and whoever's
paid the most, whether it's running an ad or they've got the best SEO, you know, practices
(22:14):
or whatever it is, right?
People are interrupting you where you're at and that's how most of us are choosing to
engage with who we do.
Now there's familiarity that's built up over time.
And so when we make that choice, you know, it's oftentimes because of some of, you know,
(22:36):
the familiarity that's been built up over time, but you got to interrupt people where
they're at and reach out to them.
Yeah.
I love that you brought that up because, you know, every real estate agent, for some
reason, like their goal is to have a billboard.
And I thought about that one day because, I mean, I got there to that point where I
(22:59):
was like, why do I want a billboard?
And I really just like broke it down.
Matt, why do you want a billboard?
It's so I could see myself driving to work in back every day.
You know what I mean?
Like when it comes down to it, everything that I've done as far as search engine optimization
for a business, that's what, that's where the eyeballs are, you know, it's that internet
(23:24):
visibility, that's where the money should go, and it's a whole heck of a lot cheaper
than having a billboard and a radio ad.
And, you know, like everybody's going to see it when they go online.
When they hit Facebook, they hit Google first, your ads coming up, you know, if you attach
(23:44):
an ad pixel to a listing, it's going to come up every single time those keywords are hit.
And it's just a whole lot more beneficial for your business to make sure that your SEO
is in line, then have the billboard.
So you can, you know, or the, I always think it's funny when people get a bus bench, right?
(24:10):
Like I want people that are taking the bus to know that I'm a realtor, more than likely,
some of them might be in the market, but I just don't feel like that's my target market,
right?
Whereas with internet marketing, you can, you know, use just a little bit of keyword
marketing goes a long way.
(24:31):
And yes, it's just way more beneficial and way cheaper.
Well, and, you know, it's definitely a place to start.
I think it, you know, it depends on the situation.
Listen, if you're in a small market or, you know, in an area where there's that main intersection
that gets a lot of views, because as you said, you know, Matt, what we're talking about is
(24:54):
eyeballs and where they're at today.
Okay.
Everybody back in the day listened to the radio, then it was TV, you know, and through
a lot of other mediums.
But today, you know, most of the eyeballs are on their phone.
So if the goal is to get the most impressions, there's a much cheaper way of doing it.
Okay.
(25:15):
Now, if you know what your metrics are, and you know, there's a lot of people probably
who are doing large teams who are doing radio and, and doing billboards and things like that.
But I promise you that along with that, and what creates exponential rates of return for
the radio ads and the billboard and everything else are those processes that underlie that.
(25:39):
And it's, you know, if somebody sees a billboard and they happen to go on and type my name
into their web browser, what's going to come up then?
And while they might see my billboard going to and from work or whatever they do daily,
when that point comes in which they're ready to make a decision, okay, you have people that
(26:01):
are in the consideration stage, and you have people that are in the decision stage, and
you actually have people that are in the awareness stage who just realized that they might need
to make a move.
But when you've got somebody who's in the decision stage, what are the chances that
they're going to be looking at your billboard when they're ready to make that decision versus
the chances that with a well planned strategy, you could show up in their feed and get the
(26:24):
benefit of familiarity because of the billboard.
So you create, as J. Abraham refers to, you create an omnipresence where all that stuff
works together to attract business, you know, rather than you having to chase.
And for most agents, you know, for most, it's much more affordable to start with some of
(26:50):
the things that you're talking about.
And the rate of return is typically a lot, a lot higher for them.
Yeah, that's the case for me personally.
Yeah.
You know, I just, I'm kind of cheap though when it comes down to it.
I watch every little.
Well, listen, you can run, you can run every billboard you want.
And what really matters is what your profitability is.
(27:12):
You know, there's teams that are doing a thousand units a year and have zero profitability.
Okay.
You could be closing 50 deals a year and have profitability.
And so, you know, there's a big, big difference between the two.
For sure.
Well, hey man, I really appreciate you coming on today.
(27:34):
I don't want to take up too much of your time.
Stick around for a moment.
I will do, man.
Thank you for having me on, Matt.
All right.
Thanks a lot, Scott.
(27:57):
Right, everyone.
Sorry, Tyler.
Thank you so much, empowered.
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