December 12, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of the Path to Better A1C podcast, host Jenny Pena speaks with registered dietitian Andy De Santis about the interconnectedness of fatty liver disease and diabetes management.
About Andy De Santis, RD MPH:
Andy is a private practice dietitian, book author and social media enthusiast from Toronto, Canada. Having graduated with a master's in public health nutrition in 2014, his decade long career started at the research and education department of Diabetes Canada before expanding into the world of social media, nutrition writing and private practice.
Spending the last few years engrossed in the world of fatty liver disease and metabolic health, Andy has an insatiable desire for identifying and translating nutrition research for his clients, followers and Fatty Liver online course and community members. * Use PB50 Code for $50 off Fatty Liver Course here:ttps://www.fatty-liver-masterclass.com/checkout* Connect with Andy on IG: @AndytheRD
Connect with Host, Jenny Pena, NBC-HWC
FREE Resources:📘Prediabetes Roadmap Guide: https://wwwsubscribepage.io/starterguide🍽️Dinner, Solved – quick & blood sugar–friendly dinner ideas: https://jennypena.kit.com/dinner🗒️Blood Sugar–Balancing Snacks List: https://subscribepage.io/snacksConnect with Coach Jenny:📞Book a FREE Clarity Call - https://calendly.com/coachjenp7/call🌐 Learn more: https://www.jennypena.com📲 Follow on Instagram: / coachjenp
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey there, welcome to the path to better A1C podcast.
I am your host Jenny Pena. I am a national board certified
health and Wellness coach, diabetes prevention program,
lifestyle coach and I am super excited about a guest that I
have today. I know that many of you are
going to benefit from all the knowledge.
I've been following him on Instagram and I learned so much
(00:23):
every single day. He has amazing content and what
I love the most is that is science based and is Andy DRD.
I'm going to let him introduce himself and share a little bit
about what he does and what is his mission and vision in terms
of health and Wellness. Yeah, thanks so much for having
me, Jenny. And I'm so happy to hear that
you, you know, you find that youlearn from me like maybe every
(00:45):
day, almost every day. That makes me know that's why
that's why I'm in it, right? I, I do, I think the most
important thing to know about meis I do get like, you know, a
great deal of joy learning new things in the, in the realm of
food, nutrition, sharing that information and, and just
sharing it with the benefit of as many people as possible.
And yeah, for me, I am a, I'm a registered dietitian from
Toronto, Canada. And I don't know if you know
(01:06):
this, but my first job and now Ihave a private practice now my
first job was working for Diabetes Canada in the research
education department. So I do have a bit of a special
connection with diabetes management.
And at this point in my career when I'm focusing more on, on
fatty liver and I folk, I've always been in the realm of
metabolic health and you know, which basically talk about
(01:28):
cholesterol management, blood sugar management, improving
blood work, you know, maybe someweight management.
You know, I've always been in that realm, but I've focused
more on fatty liver recently. But the, the fact of the matter
is that blood sugar management and diabetes prevention or
diabetes management, they are really heavily tied in with
fatty liver. So it's kind of like a full in a
way, it's a bit of a full circlething.
(01:49):
Obviously I'm here today talkingwith you and I'm really excited
for it. But yeah, beyond that, you, I
used to do a lot of writing. I have a bunch of books these
days it's more just walking videos as we talked about before
and and and, you know, social media content.
But that's my little that's my little introduction.
Yeah, I think like that was one of the first I I direct message
him because if you follow him and please go follow him is Andy
(02:12):
DRD when you follow him, A lot of the videos, he does it while
he's walking. And in my mind, I'm like, I
wonder how many steps he actually gets every day because
that's something that a lot of people there are different
theories about what is the idealstep number that you should get?
Or again, if we were in the northern hemisphere and it's
getting colder and now like yourstep count kind of suffers a
(02:35):
little bit with all the jobs sitting down for long periods of
time. Sometimes stability suffers a
bit. But that was something funny
that I said that I'm like, with all those videos while you're
walking, you probably have a good step count.
But yeah, yeah. Awesome.
It's funny because I never really care about step count for
a long time. And then there's a period in my
(02:55):
career where I was super busy and, you know, unhealthily busy,
right? We're talking about good busy.
Where I was, I was like, oh, I'mgetting one 2000 steps a day.
I'm like, oh, this is awesome. It's like a sign that I'm like
so busy. I'm like working so hard.
And then later on I realized like that was kind of kind of a
silly way to look at it. And, and I had a period out of
nowhere. I'm like, let me, let me start
making these walking videos because it, it seems more
(03:16):
authentic because I was doing a lot of videos sitting in my
office. And I think people kind of like
more just The Walking, the authenticity, the more natural
aspect of it. And yeah, I just kind of stuck
with that. My step, my step kind of
literally started going up, but I started walking a bit to work.
And then all of a sudden I had 10,000 steps.
But you bring up a good point because so, so there's new
research. I love talking about walking
because in the current day and age there's conflict with almost
(03:39):
every topic. But I think it's kind of easy to
come to agreement on the fact that it's good to walk right?
More, more than you did before. Yeah, there's new researching.
Except a lot of the benefits forwalking come in the 1st 7000
steps, which basically means obviously 10,000 is better than
7000 if you can get it. But you don't need to feel bad
if 10,000 is beyond you. And just to know that the
(03:59):
difference between 2007 thousandsteps to your health is quite
big and what they call exercise snacks, which is getting up for
two-minute walk every 30 minutes.
Like if you do that consistently, that will change
how your blood sugar responds ata meal.
So walking has a lot of value indifferent ways.
Not to mention walking after a meal, like walking seems like a
simple thing, but actually there's so much there.
So so I love talking about it. Well, to my listeners, I keep
(04:21):
saying that because a lot of people think that for exercise
to count, that has to be at the gym, It has to be two hours, it
has to be high intensity. And if you squeeze those 10
minute walks, especially after the meals, like your, your blood
sugar response is going to be different.
You know, your insulin sensitivity is going to get
better. So include that.
And sometimes I tell them I'm like, if you cannot go outside,
(04:42):
you can March in place. You can March in place while
you're in a meeting. You can, if you're at home and
you have kids, after dinner, theplaylist and start dancing.
I mean, be goofy a little bit, but get that movement so they
get your heart rate elevated andthat actually gives a lot of
benefits. So I'm glad that an expert
agrees with me on that one. 100%no right.
(05:04):
Everything you said is great, I agree with all that.
Now let's talk about fatty liverbecause I know it seems that
it's interconnected with diabetes.
What causes what or what comes first and what can someone
diabetic and now they're seeing these signs like what can they
actually like be mindful of and and look into?
(05:26):
Yeah. So there's a few layers there.
I think first of all, it is morelikely that someone gets a fatty
liver diagnosis first and then adiabetes diagnosis later.
But it's not impossible that thereverse is true, that someone
has pure type type, pure type 2 and then ends up with a fatty
liver diagnosis. There's a lot of factors there.
(05:47):
Depends like are they getting imaging, what blood work are
they looking at, how observing is their medical team and so on.
But what we know is that if someone has type 2 diabetes and
someone has a fatty liver, theirchance of ending up with type 2
in the next 5 years is about twice as high as someone who
doesn't have fatty liver. And that's because it's heavily
tied in with insulin resistance if the liver storing a little
(06:09):
bit of fat and it is a very small amount.
So it's really important to say that cause the liver is only
around three 3 1/2 lbs and only point 2.3 lbs of that has to be
fat. So we're not talking amount of
that. It's a very small amount that
ends up there because systems internally are just not working
as well as they should. So it's almost like, and that's
one of the reasons I do like working in fatty liver is
(06:31):
because it's like, Hey, listen, your liver is telling you that
maybe you haven't been doing things right.
So now you have this opportunityto change your trajectory,
right? And that's another reason that
I'm really into this area. It's because it's a, it's
compels people because people when they hear the liver is not
right, it's like, oh, OK, that'snot good.
But you can totally change your trajectory after hearing that
(06:52):
news. That's a big part of it.
Is there anything in terms of lifestyle that can cause or
increase your chances of developing fatty liver?
Because I know with diabetes, a lot of people have the
misconception because I eat a lot of sugar, right?
And there are there are a lot ofother components.
It's not just that. Is there something like that
(07:13):
that people will be like if you're keep doing this certain
lifestyle habits, there is a chance of a higher risk of
developing fatty liver? So I'm going to answer that a
few ways. First of all, there is actually
evidence the health of the gut microbiome and the health of the
liver are really connected. OK, So what's really interesting
is when you look at the research, what they find is that
(07:36):
in people who are in good metabolic health, so they don't
have any issues, but they have ahistory of antibiotic use, they
have about a 30 plus percent higher transcending with a fatty
liver. So you could be in good
metabolic health with a history of repeated antibiotic use that
increases your fatty liver risk because after blood flows to the
digestive system and goes to theliver.
(07:56):
Next, if your gut microbiome hastaken a lot of hits and maybe
you haven't, maybe you know, maybe you haven't used
antibiotics exactly as directed.Maybe you didn't take a
supporting probiotic during thatperiod of time to minimize the
disruption. Maybe your diet generally is not
thoughtful of the parts that increase the health of the gum
microbiome, right. So that actually is a subset of
(08:16):
people that can end up with it. There are genetic factors too.
And then then we can talk about fructose.
Like obviously, there's always interest around high fructose
corn syrup, OK. And it is true in very large
amounts, like, so we're talking over 100 grams a day, which is 3
cans of soda, three cans of pop,basically over, Yeah, I would
say over a liter a day. That amount consistently can
increase liver fat content because of the way fructose is
(08:38):
metabolized in the liver and howfructose effects the gum
microbiome and so on. But the easy way to put it, it
basically just means that thingshaven't quite been right from
the movement front. So probably relatively sanitary,
not overly active, and they haven't quite been right from
the diet front, which means there could be gaps in omega-3
intake or in fiber intake or in,you know, polyphenyl intake.
(09:03):
And maybe certain foods have been, you know, really high
calorie foods have been overrepresented.
So it just kind of means that something's not quite right in
totality with what someone's doing.
I, I, I'd never really try and peg it on, Oh, it's because of
pop. Because the reality is you drink
3 pops a day, but the rest of what you do is, is high level,
you're not ending up with fatty liver.
I think you know that. So I think that's also true.
(09:24):
Interesting. So you see how like a lot of
these habits and also again, a lot of foods that are processed
like the added sugar that sometimes sneaks in and you know
all those things, they end up always impacting one of the
systems. But if somebody comes to you
with my labs are showing a little bit of like, OK, the fat
(09:44):
indication that there is like fatty liver disease, what are
like 3 things that you would recommend?
Watch these three things. OK, so watch these three things
in terms of food and not talkingabout like other stuff, just
food only. If you want to focus on food,
absolutely. I know a lot of people think
about food, and I know that evenwith illnesses, food is
(10:05):
important, but it's not like theonly element, even with
diabetes. But sure, just talk about food.
Yeah, I mean, I think the obvious thing is I would say,
look, if you're drinking a largeamount of soda pop, you know,
whatever, I it's different. It's called different in the
States, in Canada, and we're talking three like a liter a day
or more. You know, I'll probably switch
that to, to, to, to diet soda, right?
(10:27):
I think that's a change you can make.
And there was a study recently where they looked at either
having 10% more calories from sugar or 10% less calories.
And the sweetness was replaced by various artificial sweeteners
or or alternative sweeteners. OK.
And then they measure the effecton the gut bacteria, and they
(10:48):
found actually the extra calories and the extra sugar had
more of a more negative effect. So it's not necessarily so
straightforward that diet drinksequal bad for the gut bacteria.
I think that's not necessarily very clear, You know, that's the
case. So I would say if someone's
drinking a large amount of pop, making that switch makes sense.
The next thing you want to be aware of realistically is
(11:11):
saturated fat. In studies where they look at
how different types of fat affect how much fat ends up in
the liver, saturated fat always ends up and saturated fat
basically is, you know, the butter, the red meat, the high
fat dairy products of the world,right?
That's not to say that you that someone can't have this stuff,
but if you have a, if you have afatty liver diagnosis and you're
(11:33):
cooking with butter instead of olive oil, I mean, you're going
against a lot, a lot of good evidence right now.
If you're willing to make other changes elsewhere, great.
You can use whatever you cook with whatever you want.
But if you need all the wins youcan get, you know, you need to
Orient away from saturated fat to whatever extent your
(11:54):
happiness will allow. So that what does that actually
mean? It means probably more fish,
less red meat if you're an omnivore, right?
It means more olive oil, less butter, maybe the 1% dairy
products instead of the 3%. That's what you know, there's,
there's no question in my mind based on all the studies I've
seen that will help to lower your liver fat content.
(12:15):
So I would say that as well. And then we talk insulin
resistance, right? We have to talk about like very,
very, you know, high glycemic index carbohydrates to like, you
know, anything made anything with a first in green is white
flour. You know, something that's
really boosting like something that's significantly boosting
the influence of meals on your blood sugar levels or of snacks
on your blood sugar levels. And those we have to be mindful
(12:37):
of things like that right now. There's a lot of tricks that we
can employ though to to because an individual can like, let's
say love white rice and we couldalso say in the same breath,
yeah, and I use white rice. I'm.
Hispanic and I love white rice and I'm so glad that it doesn't
spike my blood sugar as much as ash potatoes.
(12:58):
I, I, I, I bring up white rice specifically because it's
probably that one thing that like in so many cultures and so
many people, it's well loved. So that's actually springboard
from the avoidance conversation to the strategy and the science
conversation, right? So let's say you love white
rice, but then you, you're awareof blood sugar regulation issues
(13:18):
and insulin resistance. We have so many strategies that
you can employ. So first of all, if you mix
white rice 5050 with beans, now I think eating more beans is the
number one step to take. If you are just pick one
positive step because beans do two things in the short term.
They make you more full after a meal and they reduce your post
meal blood sugar response. So you mix beans 5050 with rice,
(13:40):
that alone is going to reduce the effect of the rice on your
blood sugar by 2030%. OK, It's going to make you more
full, which is all, which is amazing.
But in the long term, it's goingto boost your healthy gut
bacteria, which is going to havea carryover effect on your liver
in the longer term. Because beans are one of the
foods that are most influential on the healthy gut bacteria
because of the not only the highfiber content, but the unique
(14:01):
type of fiber that they have. So that's one thing you can do
right away. You can also eat the white rice
at a meal last, and that's not always appealing for everyone.
I call it the food order trick. It's a well known concept in the
world of diabetes management. But if you have a meal, rice,
chicken and broccoli, if you eatthe rice last instead of first,
let's just say it's a totally different blood sugar response.
(14:24):
So you mix it with beans, you potentially have a last in a
meal. You take a walk right after your
meal, that's going to lower yourblood sugar, your peak, right?
You eat more slowly and all of asudden you're carrying that
white rice in your diet without any significant cost to your
insulin resistance, your blood sugar regulation, right?
So that's good. I'm gonna hand it back to you.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And I mean, as being a Hispanic,you describe what I had to do
(14:46):
because there is no way in the world that I'm going to go yeah,
without rice and beans. And I mean, I grew up eating
that every day. But one thing that a lot of my
clients also come with is maybe for you is pasta, maybe for for
you is mashed potatoes. Like if you're from the US in
the South, like it's all about the potatoes and like a lot of
the fried stuff. And sometimes you have to figure
(15:08):
out ways of is it the crispinessthat you like and you maybe cook
it in the air fryer instead of being deep fried.
Like can you use avocado oil instead?
And swap things so that you can still enjoy the food that you
are eating and still incorporatethings that maybe you grew up
and then sometimes have like emotional tie to it, but yet you
can support your health. I grew up eating rice every day.
(15:30):
I don't eat it every day. For me, more some more
celebratory food. But I make sure that whenever I
eat it, I have protein, I have the beans I am gonna move after.
Typically don't like to eat it towards the end of the day and
then veg out by the couch. But I do it just to prevent that
spike. And there are certain things
that spike me the most. Thanksgiving is coming and I
(15:52):
know that. Mashed potatoes, it seems like
no matter what I do, I get that slight headache and I know that
my blood sugar is elevated the moment that I eat it, but I'm
aware of it and I just adapt anddo the best that I can and enjoy
them when I have them. But yeah, this is great stuff.
No, you cover so let's talk about some of the points you
(16:13):
cover cuz nutrition is definitely the game of to each
their own where someone could easily come to me and say that
okay Andy, hey, I wanna reverse fatty liver one or my O1C but
I'm gonna eat white rice every day that's totally doable.
I'm gonna eat pasta, right? So now there's, there's layers
here because you made some interesting points about in your
case, you're having you have white rice a little bit less
(16:33):
often and so on. And you, you apply like the
trick where you or you, you manipulate the food order.
So what I would tell people is that the more often that you you
let's say, have something like like white rice, OK, or pasta,
and the more important it is foryou to manage like insulins and
resistance and blood sugar. You could argue that, yeah, you
(16:54):
know, using the the trick where you have the starched glass is
going to be quite valuable because it's behavior too often.
But it's something to say every single time.
Or if the meals mixed together that you have to sweat it like
it has to be done. So it's a fine line between
saying, hey, this is science, this will help, but you don't
have to do this all the time. It's not like it's going to be a
disaster if you don't. Now for the pasta argument, we
can apply the same thing. Like if someone was really
concerned about topics in this realm and and their post meal
(17:18):
blood sugar response start that you can still have a salad
first, then have your pasta witha protein.
Protein obviously at the meal isgoing to play a big role in
slowing down the blood sugar response.
So if it's pasta with chicken orif it's possible with beans or
someones of vegan or vegetarian,eat the salad first, maybe then
have the pasta with the protein together.
That's a totally different ball game than having pasta alone 1st
(17:40):
and then going having rest of the meal.
Totally different ball game. And in the in one instance it's
easy to say it doesn't matter much, which I agree with, but
this is kind of a big part of someone's life.
Then you want to be aware of these things, and you want to
use them to your advantage as much as possible.
Yep, Yep. And I usually tell just don't
eat carbs naked, right? Never have them.
(18:02):
Like if there was one thing I'm like if you're having insulin
resistance free diabetes. And that was actually the first
advice that I got from like a really good doctor.
She actually helped me reverse it and maintain it.
And she said, like, whatever youdo, it doesn't matter if it's
complex carbon, even if it is a fruit, like just eat it with
either some sort of healthy fat or protein.
Like your body's going to respond differently.
(18:23):
And to this day, I try to abide by that.
So same thing as it can be to get that fresh bread and just
eat it. It's like, OK, like I know
what's going to happen if I don't have something else with
that. It's good, it's good advice also
has a secondary effect. So as the intended effect,
carbohydrates alone are going tocause a bigger increase in blood
(18:43):
sugar and carbohydrates pair of something else.
So it's 100% true. The secondary effect is it
actually forces someone, leads someone to learn, OK, maybe
certain foods have like a synergy together or you're going
to pursue a more diverse diet because, OK, well, I'm having a
carb already, we'll have to havea protein or or a fat.
And maybe those foods were less forthcoming in someone's diet,
(19:04):
right? So I think also as I think about
the consequences of that guidance, it's obviously good
guidance. It actually also has an
additional bonus effect, which is you seek out other foods that
offer nutritional value and you have the higher potential to
make some meals and snacks that really are really robust, cost
nutritionally and offer you a bunch of different benefits,
right? So that's also cool.
(19:25):
OK. I have two more questions before
we wrap up. But yeah, what is your take on
the type of oils? Because I know that there is a
lot of things about seed oils and inflammation and all these
things like Mediterranean diet seem to be like the one that has
like the most research out there, right, Like olive oil and
olives and nuts. But what is your take on that?
(19:47):
Because I know you mentioned thesaturated fat, but what about
the oils? Like the cooking oils?
Yeah, I think that when we, you know, when we think about the
the type of fat and we and what we really want is like
monounsaturated fat, which is what's found in like nuts and
olives and avocado. And what people aren't
necessarily getting a lot in their diet.
That's that's gonna come in the highest supply in olive oil,
(20:09):
avocado oil and olive oil also is very high.
And by the way, here's a fun fact.
So mono unsaturated fat, AKA olive olive oil, it actually
stimulates a greater GLP one release than butter saturated
fat GLP 1. You know, obviously is
popularized the medic in the medical medical realm, but it's
a real thing. Our body releases.
(20:30):
It slows down how food looks oursystem and makes us more sense
of the insulin. So just so everyone knows that
olive oil and there's again, there's clear evidence on this
from good journals. Olive oil stimulates a greater
release. So I would say like the easy
choice is and also olive oil haspolyphenyls and we also have
really good evidence that when polyphenyl intake and polyphenyl
is just a family of antioxidantsthat are good for the gum
(20:50):
microbiome. They have positive lymphs on
inflammation. Higher polyphenyl diets lead to
better outcomes for liver health.
So when olive oil can give you monolith unsaturated fats and
polyphenols, which the average person is low in both in their
diet. The average person, if we pluck
someone off the street, what arethey going to be lower in?
You know, is it going to be saturated fat or is it going to
be olive oil or is it going to be monosaturated fat?
Polyphenols, we know what they're going to be low in
(21:11):
statistically. So I think olive oil or maybe
avocado oil is the easy choice. But if we want to be more broad
about it and let's say economicscoming to the picture, maybe in
the grander scheme, someone can't have the type of diet they
want. And I'm not saying they can't
afford to have olive oil becauseit's more pricey.
I wouldn't think twice about using something like sunflower
oil which is very high in vitamin E and vitamin E is
(21:32):
actually very protective of the liver.
A lot of good evidence on that right?
The polyunsaturated fats which are higher in sunflower oil and
the iron is Sorry I'm kind of rambling here.
The irony is there's also high olake sunflower oil, which means
like it's high in monounsaturated fats.
I don't want anyone who maybe economically can have olive oil
feel bad about eating sunflower oil because really the reality
is what oil you use, if you're willing to do a lot of other
(21:54):
things right, the oil you use is, is almost irrelevant.
The relevance of the oil you usegoes down as the quality of your
diet and lifestyle goes up. And that's true for many things.
I could say the same with the food order trick.
The value of the food order trick goes down as your
lifestyle and dietary habits go up.
It's inevitable because that means you're, you're probably
going to be eating beans and salmon and, and, and you know,
asparagus, a lot of it's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
(22:15):
I know it's big on social media,but you know, if, if you I, I
think the biggest unintended consequence of it is, you know,
one of the my favorite snacks torecommend are like roasted
beans, roasted lentils, roasted chickpeas because it's a
satiating snack, high protein, high fiber.
If you're going to eat any carbon naked beans are the one
because they really are very unique.
They they really are different than any other source of
(22:37):
carbohydrates. So if that was cooked of
sunflower oil because that's economical and drives the price
down, it would be a shame if someone chose something else
instead because they think sunflower is like a sunflower
oil is going to have no negativethe consequences in that
context. And again, studies show when it
comes to liver fat levels, that saturated fat in large amounts
drives liver fat more than anything else, right?
(22:58):
So if you're thinking about liver fat content, then it is
what it is. OK.
And the other question I had is resistant starch because there
was a lot of things and I'm like, is there like true science
behind, oh, if I cook the rice today and I heat it up tomorrow
or the potatoes, does it have a difference in terms of the
impact on your blood sugars or Nah?
(23:22):
Yeah. So resistant starch is, is let's
just think of it as it's essentially like a a type of
fiber for the sake of simplicity.
It's a type of fiber that has a above average effect on the gut
bacteria, which means that not every type of fiber is going to
boost levels healthy gut bacteria in the same way
resistant starch has a much higher potential than maybe
(23:43):
certain other types of fiber. OK, and resistant starch.
Guess what resistant starch is and what's in a lot of beans,
which are, which is one of the reasons why they're so good for
the gut bacteria. It's also in green, but greenish
bananas, greenish bananas are the highest source, right?
So conventional wisdom is like, oh, bananas are bad, spike blood
sugar. But a greenish banana is going
to be lowering glycemic index, higher resistant starch, good
(24:04):
for your gut bacteria? Sure.
Pair it with fat, have it with atablespoon of peanut butter and
a cup of milk or soy milk. That's that's an epic snack.
And to say bananas are bad is only showing a surface level
understanding of like what's going on with food.
The resistant starch basically just accumulates when you cool,
when you cook and cool a potato or rice or pasta and it does
accumulate, essentially increases the fiber content
(24:25):
overnight and it will have a lesser effect on your blood
sugar levels the next day. So having leftover potato, rice,
or pasta is better for blood sugar and gut microbiome health
and as a consequence better for liver health.
Like how much does it matter in the grand scheme?
It depends on what else you're doing and how much you're
relying on that food to be a champion in your diet.
(24:47):
So it could, I mean, it could becompletely irrelevant or it
could be the best thing that you're able to do in this moment
and very important, it all depends on the person.
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to throw a few
random questions just to see, OK, what is that vegetable that
you will not eat? You know what, it's so funny
(25:07):
because I had some friends over last night after playing soccer
and I cooked my friend eggplant.He had me tried.
I can't do it. I just don't like the mouth
feel. No, just eggplant.
Eggplant is not for me. Zucchini on the other hand, no
problem. I think for me, I'm a very like
mouthfeel texture person. So fresh blueberries, no.
Frozen blueberries, yes. Tomato sauce, yes.
(25:29):
But tomatoes like to bite into something and it's mushy on the
inside. I can't do it.
Yeah, I struggle with that. Interesting favorite snack when
you hit that 3:00 PM slump. It has to be some combination of
of fruit and nuts and dark chocolate.
So I don't know a bag of Tangerines, a bag of pecans,
couple squares of dark chocolate, or it could be apples
(25:51):
and a different type of nut and dark chocolate.
Fruit, nuts and dark chocolate for me if I have more time.
If I'm really strapped for time.Honestly I love roasted enamami
snacks. Those would be my 2.
And I recommend a lot of this tomy clients too.
Not because I like them, but because they just fill in gaps.
And the average person's diet that I know are gonna change
their life, That's, that's it, right?
Yeah, yeah. What is your guilty pleasure?
(26:13):
What is that, that food or or thing that you do that you're
like, it may not be 100% good, but I'm still gonna do it?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, OK, like, so I I'm gonna translate that
question into OK, Andy, what foods do you like that are not
like consider traditionally nutritious?
So chips would be 1, French fries would be 1.
(26:34):
Burger, hamburgers for sure. Ice, I mean ice cream cake.
But I mean, really, that's only it.
I mean, who doesn't really like ice cream cake?
I think those would be Yeah, icecream cake, chips, chips I eat
very often. French fries.
I think those would be some of the ones that play a big role.
OK. Yeah, yeah.
(26:54):
Awesome. Any last suggestions for those
that have diabetes or prediabetes or already it's
showing fatty liver, home disease signs or having talks
with the doctors? Something that they can grab at
the end of the episode that you would wanna share?
Yeah, so I'll just say a few things because that's why I
always have a few things to say.I like to talk like I told you
(27:16):
before, like don't underestimatewalking, OK?
That's number one. You know, not everybody.
I mean, look, I encourage peopleto aim high with physical
activity and learn a new skill, and that's great.
But if you don't have a robust background in physical activity,
it's not easy to go just jump into doing some difficult class.
I appreciate that. So don't underestimate walking,
number one. Walking right after a meal,
(27:37):
walking 150 minutes a week, justgetting up because because
walking is not just walking, walking also means you're not
sitting. So it's a double win.
So that's really important to know.
So do not understand the power of walking.
Like studies show if you walk 150 minutes a week, your chance
of reversing fatty liver, all else equals is 3 to 4 times
higher than someone who doesn't do that just from that change
alone. So that's massive.
(27:58):
So don't underestimate that. Do not underestimate that.
I mean, don't, don't underestimate the power of
eating slowly and mindfully, taking a few deep breaths before
a meal, not rushing a meal that will totally change your
appetite, hormone release and your blood sugar response.
And I know a lot of people, theydo try and rush their meals and
they don't kind of protect meal time to the best of your
ability. I would recommend that.
(28:19):
I would also have to say look like I'm a bit biased here, but
if you have any potential or budget at all to speak with a
dietitian, I highly recommend itbecause there's so much
information out there. And if you know somebody could
figure out nutrition for themselves, it's true, but
you're risking a very long and convoluted path and a lot of
(28:40):
unnecessary suffering. And I always tell my clients, my
job is, I say this OK to master nutrition is a multi year
endeavor. My job is to condense the
timeline and make it as painlessas possible.
Whether you do it alone or if someone's help, it's going to be
a multi year endeavor because you have there's there's lessons
you have to learn, trials and tribulations that you have to go
through. There's no magic quote that's
(29:02):
going to take away that, that you have to learn and reflect
and observe, right and try things, see what works for you,
see how you respond to differentsituations, go through a tough
period, see how you're able to recuperate and recover from
that. So it's all that tied in.
So I would say that as well, eatmore beans.
I think beans are the most underappreciated family of
foods. When we look at the people who
(29:23):
live long and like the areas of the world people live the
longest, they always eat beans. Like there's a, there's a study
for a woman from Spain. She lived 117 and they said she
had a gut microbiome of someone decades younger than her, right?
And that doesn't mean that. And she had a Mediterranean
diet, which means beans are involved, doesn't mean that
that's everything. And that explains her longevity.
But if we know this one food is under consumed, it's economical,
(29:45):
it makes you full. You don't have to have that much
of it to feel full. It's good for your gut bacteria.
We see the gut bacterias associate so much with
longevity. You know, it's like where
there's smoke, there's fire sometimes.
It's a no brainer. It's almost like, come on, like
jump in the wild. And a lot of people are And
that's the one thing I'm proud to be Hispanic and I'm proud
that I know how to cook the beans from scratch.
(30:06):
But a lot of people are afraid of like, oh, it's gonna get me
gassy or it's gonna. There are tricks for that.
And sometimes I do share that like there are tricks for that.
There's a science behind it how you prepped it so that you don't
get those side effects. And a lot of times too is
because I know that definitely in America, like the average
intake of fiber is about like 10grams or less.
(30:28):
Yeah. And that is way below like the
guideline. So when you're trying to Add all
these fiber, also the body, I'm not used to all these fiber.
So sometimes even incorporating that, you got to do it slowly.
But there are tricks for that. So don't be afraid of the bees
place if you need to message me if you want the tricks.
I will share the tricks as somebody that's important.
(30:48):
I grew up with rice and beans all the time and I never had an
issue. I'm like, OK, I don't know what
you're talking about. Like our countries eat heavily
on beans and you don't hear that.
It's really important. It's true, it's true.
If people believe that they can't eat them without, I mean,
and let's put it out there. I mean, I think canned lentils
are one of the better tolerated ones of all the beans in terms
of like being a little bit lowerin, in, in thought in Fodmaps,
(31:11):
which anyway, just to mean like start with canned lentils.
If you really are unconfident and start with a low amount,
start with like 1/4 cup. OK, There are actually studies
that quarter cup of lentils a day actually is enough to reduce
insulin resistance, right. So it's not like you have to go
and have a can of beans every day, You know, get canned, try
it. Start with canned lentils, start
with a small amount. Maybe don't have it at a meal
that's otherwise already high infiber from other foods.
(31:33):
There's that's just some quick tips right at the top that you
could use. And the only thing which we
talked about before we start recording is, I mean, I'm sure
to put this in the show. So I do have like that I do have
that online course for fatty liver and I'm going to fit that
50% off code is PB50. That's going to be all in the
description. So it's all good.
But for anyone out there who wants to like learn more about
fatty liver and how and my philosophy to reverse it, but
maybe it's not a position to, you know, go into advanced
(31:56):
coaching on that topic. So I'll throw that out there
too. Thank you so much.
That's amazing. That's very generous of you.
And is there any other place that you would like for them to
connect with you? As you said, I will put all the
information on the show notes, but is there any last thing we
would like to share? Instagram is great.
You know, it's to your point at the beginning, you find that you
learn a lot and and you already know a lot, right.
(32:19):
So I would, I would say that if,if you know, if an individual
who doesn't have your same levelof knowledge, maybe they're
gonna learn twice as much. So, you know, Instagram it is,
yeah. All my clients, any clients that
I hear that I work with or anyone that comes in contact and
they talk about like fatty liver.
I kind of pointed it to you justbecause again, the content is
solid. It's science based.
(32:40):
There's a lot of things out there.
A lot of my clients, sometimes they go on forums and they go on
these groups and, and a lot of people that run these groups,
sometimes they have a hidden agenda.
It's not always science based. Sometimes they're promoting even
supplements or certain extreme diets and it's not safe.
So contact the dietitian, make sure that you you enroll with a
(33:02):
dietitian or make sure that the information that you get is
science based, that is backed byscience and that there is some
evidence behind it and not just some sort of trend that we know
when we're familiar about. Yeah, And you make an important
point. If we just like you talk about
forms and like, look, going and reading people's stories, it's
(33:22):
definitely it's it's definitely powerful, but it's true.
Like when you work with, let's say, a dietitian or any sort of
practitioner that looks at largeamounts of scientific evidence,
then like what they've what they're doing essentially is
they are rapidly combining everyone's story together and
giving you the most likely advice that's going to be
successful. So when you just look at one
(33:43):
person's story, the chance that that story is going to come true
for you is not very high. But when you get feedback from
someone who is constantly looking at everyone's story,
there's a higher percentage chance that you're going to get
the advice that's going to work,right.
So you got to be really careful and be really mindful when you
take in people's stories and anecdotes, like understand,
understand their value for what it is.
(34:03):
Maybe it's motivating, but be really careful because would you
rather do something that work for one person or something that
work for 1000 people, you know, like which one?
If you get the bank, everything on it, what would you rather do?
You know, I think that's maybe areally important message and
something I take for granted because you know, I'm so the
more I learn, I get more and more removed from let's say the
person in my chair. So I have to be very careful and
I appreciate you bringing up that point.
(34:24):
I have to come back down to earth and like realize, OK,
there's science, but there's also real life.
And like I have, we have to findthe middle ground, right?
So that's that's very important.Thank you so much, Andy for your
time. I appreciate all the knowledge.
I am sure that the audience appreciates you as well.
Thank you so much for the discount.
So if anybody has fatty liver disease and you need something
(34:44):
to get started, 50% off is actually a pretty generous
discount. So we appreciate that and
hopefully I'll get to have you again and maybe we can talk a
little bit more. Yeah, you know, you can see,
like I said, I said already today I like to talk, so I'll
definitely come back if you wantme to.
Thank you so much, have an amazing rest of your week.
(35:05):
You too.
Hey there, welcome to the path to better A1C podcast.
I am your host Jenny Pena. I am a national board certified
health and Wellness coach, diabetes prevention program,
lifestyle coach and I am super excited about a guest that I
have today. I know that many of you are
going to benefit from all the knowledge.
I've been following him on Instagram and I learned so much
(00:23):
every single day. He has amazing content and what
I love the most is that is science based and is Andy DRD.
I'm going to let him introduce himself and share a little bit
about what he does and what is his mission and vision in terms
of health and Wellness. Yeah, thanks so much for having
me, Jenny. And I'm so happy to hear that
you, you know, you find that youlearn from me like maybe every
(00:45):
day, almost every day. That makes me know that's why
that's why I'm in it, right? I, I do, I think the most
important thing to know about meis I do get like, you know, a
great deal of joy learning new things in the, in the realm of
food, nutrition, sharing that information and, and just
sharing it with the benefit of as many people as possible.
And yeah, for me, I am a, I'm a registered dietitian from
Toronto, Canada. And I don't know if you know
(01:06):
this, but my first job and now Ihave a private practice now my
first job was working for Diabetes Canada in the research
education department. So I do have a bit of a special
connection with diabetes management.
And at this point in my career when I'm focusing more on, on
fatty liver and I folk, I've always been in the realm of
metabolic health and you know, which basically talk about
(01:28):
cholesterol management, blood sugar management, improving
blood work, you know, maybe someweight management.
You know, I've always been in that realm, but I've focused
more on fatty liver recently. But the, the fact of the matter
is that blood sugar management and diabetes prevention or
diabetes management, they are really heavily tied in with
fatty liver. So it's kind of like a full in a
way, it's a bit of a full circlething.
(01:49):
Obviously I'm here today talkingwith you and I'm really excited
for it. But yeah, beyond that, you, I
used to do a lot of writing. I have a bunch of books these
days it's more just walking videos as we talked about before
and and and, you know, social media content.
But that's my little that's my little introduction.
Yeah, I think like that was one of the first I I direct message
him because if you follow him and please go follow him is Andy
(02:12):
DRD when you follow him, A lot of the videos, he does it while
he's walking. And in my mind, I'm like, I
wonder how many steps he actually gets every day because
that's something that a lot of people there are different
theories about what is the idealstep number that you should get?
Or again, if we were in the northern hemisphere and it's
getting colder and now like yourstep count kind of suffers a
(02:35):
little bit with all the jobs sitting down for long periods of
time. Sometimes stability suffers a
bit. But that was something funny
that I said that I'm like, with all those videos while you're
walking, you probably have a good step count.
But yeah, yeah. Awesome.
It's funny because I never really care about step count for
a long time. And then there's a period in my
(02:55):
career where I was super busy and, you know, unhealthily busy,
right? We're talking about good busy.
Where I was, I was like, oh, I'mgetting one 2000 steps a day.
I'm like, oh, this is awesome. It's like a sign that I'm like
so busy. I'm like working so hard.
And then later on I realized like that was kind of kind of a
silly way to look at it. And, and I had a period out of
nowhere. I'm like, let me, let me start
making these walking videos because it, it seems more
(03:16):
authentic because I was doing a lot of videos sitting in my
office. And I think people kind of like
more just The Walking, the authenticity, the more natural
aspect of it. And yeah, I just kind of stuck
with that. My step, my step kind of
literally started going up, but I started walking a bit to work.
And then all of a sudden I had 10,000 steps.
But you bring up a good point because so, so there's new
research. I love talking about walking
because in the current day and age there's conflict with almost
(03:39):
every topic. But I think it's kind of easy to
come to agreement on the fact that it's good to walk right?
More, more than you did before. Yeah, there's new researching.
Except a lot of the benefits forwalking come in the 1st 7000
steps, which basically means obviously 10,000 is better than
7000 if you can get it. But you don't need to feel bad
if 10,000 is beyond you. And just to know that the
(03:59):
difference between 2007 thousandsteps to your health is quite
big and what they call exercise snacks, which is getting up for
two-minute walk every 30 minutes.
Like if you do that consistently, that will change
how your blood sugar responds ata meal.
So walking has a lot of value indifferent ways.
Not to mention walking after a meal, like walking seems like a
simple thing, but actually there's so much there.
So so I love talking about it. Well, to my listeners, I keep
(04:21):
saying that because a lot of people think that for exercise
to count, that has to be at the gym, It has to be two hours, it
has to be high intensity. And if you squeeze those 10
minute walks, especially after the meals, like your, your blood
sugar response is going to be different.
You know, your insulin sensitivity is going to get
better. So include that.
And sometimes I tell them I'm like, if you cannot go outside,
(04:42):
you can March in place. You can March in place while
you're in a meeting. You can, if you're at home and
you have kids, after dinner, theplaylist and start dancing.
I mean, be goofy a little bit, but get that movement so they
get your heart rate elevated andthat actually gives a lot of
benefits. So I'm glad that an expert
agrees with me on that one. 100%no right.
(05:04):
Everything you said is great, I agree with all that.
Now let's talk about fatty liverbecause I know it seems that
it's interconnected with diabetes.
What causes what or what comes first and what can someone
diabetic and now they're seeing these signs like what can they
actually like be mindful of and and look into?
(05:26):
Yeah. So there's a few layers there.
I think first of all, it is morelikely that someone gets a fatty
liver diagnosis first and then adiabetes diagnosis later.
But it's not impossible that thereverse is true, that someone
has pure type type, pure type 2 and then ends up with a fatty
liver diagnosis. There's a lot of factors there.
(05:47):
Depends like are they getting imaging, what blood work are
they looking at, how observing is their medical team and so on.
But what we know is that if someone has type 2 diabetes and
someone has a fatty liver, theirchance of ending up with type 2
in the next 5 years is about twice as high as someone who
doesn't have fatty liver. And that's because it's heavily
tied in with insulin resistance if the liver storing a little
(06:09):
bit of fat and it is a very small amount.
So it's really important to say that cause the liver is only
around three 3 1/2 lbs and only point 2.3 lbs of that has to be
fat. So we're not talking amount of
that. It's a very small amount that
ends up there because systems internally are just not working
as well as they should. So it's almost like, and that's
one of the reasons I do like working in fatty liver is
(06:31):
because it's like, Hey, listen, your liver is telling you that
maybe you haven't been doing things right.
So now you have this opportunityto change your trajectory,
right? And that's another reason that
I'm really into this area. It's because it's a, it's
compels people because people when they hear the liver is not
right, it's like, oh, OK, that'snot good.
But you can totally change your trajectory after hearing that
(06:52):
news. That's a big part of it.
Is there anything in terms of lifestyle that can cause or
increase your chances of developing fatty liver?
Because I know with diabetes, a lot of people have the
misconception because I eat a lot of sugar, right?
And there are there are a lot ofother components.
It's not just that. Is there something like that
(07:13):
that people will be like if you're keep doing this certain
lifestyle habits, there is a chance of a higher risk of
developing fatty liver? So I'm going to answer that a
few ways. First of all, there is actually
evidence the health of the gut microbiome and the health of the
liver are really connected. OK, So what's really interesting
is when you look at the research, what they find is that
(07:36):
in people who are in good metabolic health, so they don't
have any issues, but they have ahistory of antibiotic use, they
have about a 30 plus percent higher transcending with a fatty
liver. So you could be in good
metabolic health with a history of repeated antibiotic use that
increases your fatty liver risk because after blood flows to the
digestive system and goes to theliver.
(07:56):
Next, if your gut microbiome hastaken a lot of hits and maybe
you haven't, maybe you know, maybe you haven't used
antibiotics exactly as directed.Maybe you didn't take a
supporting probiotic during thatperiod of time to minimize the
disruption. Maybe your diet generally is not
thoughtful of the parts that increase the health of the gum
microbiome, right. So that actually is a subset of
(08:16):
people that can end up with it. There are genetic factors too.
And then then we can talk about fructose.
Like obviously, there's always interest around high fructose
corn syrup, OK. And it is true in very large
amounts, like, so we're talking over 100 grams a day, which is 3
cans of soda, three cans of pop,basically over, Yeah, I would
say over a liter a day. That amount consistently can
increase liver fat content because of the way fructose is
(08:38):
metabolized in the liver and howfructose effects the gum
microbiome and so on. But the easy way to put it, it
basically just means that thingshaven't quite been right from
the movement front. So probably relatively sanitary,
not overly active, and they haven't quite been right from
the diet front, which means there could be gaps in omega-3
intake or in fiber intake or in,you know, polyphenyl intake.
(09:03):
And maybe certain foods have been, you know, really high
calorie foods have been overrepresented.
So it just kind of means that something's not quite right in
totality with what someone's doing.
I, I, I'd never really try and peg it on, Oh, it's because of
pop. Because the reality is you drink
3 pops a day, but the rest of what you do is, is high level,
you're not ending up with fatty liver.
I think you know that. So I think that's also true.
(09:24):
Interesting. So you see how like a lot of
these habits and also again, a lot of foods that are processed
like the added sugar that sometimes sneaks in and you know
all those things, they end up always impacting one of the
systems. But if somebody comes to you
with my labs are showing a little bit of like, OK, the fat
(09:44):
indication that there is like fatty liver disease, what are
like 3 things that you would recommend?
Watch these three things. OK, so watch these three things
in terms of food and not talkingabout like other stuff, just
food only. If you want to focus on food,
absolutely. I know a lot of people think
about food, and I know that evenwith illnesses, food is
(10:05):
important, but it's not like theonly element, even with
diabetes. But sure, just talk about food.
Yeah, I mean, I think the obvious thing is I would say,
look, if you're drinking a largeamount of soda pop, you know,
whatever, I it's different. It's called different in the
States, in Canada, and we're talking three like a liter a day
or more. You know, I'll probably switch
that to, to, to, to diet soda, right?
(10:27):
I think that's a change you can make.
And there was a study recently where they looked at either
having 10% more calories from sugar or 10% less calories.
And the sweetness was replaced by various artificial sweeteners
or or alternative sweeteners. OK.
And then they measure the effecton the gut bacteria, and they
(10:48):
found actually the extra calories and the extra sugar had
more of a more negative effect. So it's not necessarily so
straightforward that diet drinksequal bad for the gut bacteria.
I think that's not necessarily very clear, You know, that's the
case. So I would say if someone's
drinking a large amount of pop, making that switch makes sense.
The next thing you want to be aware of realistically is
(11:11):
saturated fat. In studies where they look at
how different types of fat affect how much fat ends up in
the liver, saturated fat always ends up and saturated fat
basically is, you know, the butter, the red meat, the high
fat dairy products of the world,right?
That's not to say that you that someone can't have this stuff,
but if you have a, if you have afatty liver diagnosis and you're
(11:33):
cooking with butter instead of olive oil, I mean, you're going
against a lot, a lot of good evidence right now.
If you're willing to make other changes elsewhere, great.
You can use whatever you cook with whatever you want.
But if you need all the wins youcan get, you know, you need to
Orient away from saturated fat to whatever extent your
(11:54):
happiness will allow. So that what does that actually
mean? It means probably more fish,
less red meat if you're an omnivore, right?
It means more olive oil, less butter, maybe the 1% dairy
products instead of the 3%. That's what you know, there's,
there's no question in my mind based on all the studies I've
seen that will help to lower your liver fat content.
(12:15):
So I would say that as well. And then we talk insulin
resistance, right? We have to talk about like very,
very, you know, high glycemic index carbohydrates to like, you
know, anything made anything with a first in green is white
flour. You know, something that's
really boosting like something that's significantly boosting
the influence of meals on your blood sugar levels or of snacks
on your blood sugar levels. And those we have to be mindful
(12:37):
of things like that right now. There's a lot of tricks that we
can employ though to to because an individual can like, let's
say love white rice and we couldalso say in the same breath,
yeah, and I use white rice. I'm.
Hispanic and I love white rice and I'm so glad that it doesn't
spike my blood sugar as much as ash potatoes.
(12:58):
I, I, I, I bring up white rice specifically because it's
probably that one thing that like in so many cultures and so
many people, it's well loved. So that's actually springboard
from the avoidance conversation to the strategy and the science
conversation, right? So let's say you love white
rice, but then you, you're awareof blood sugar regulation issues
(13:18):
and insulin resistance. We have so many strategies that
you can employ. So first of all, if you mix
white rice 5050 with beans, now I think eating more beans is the
number one step to take. If you are just pick one
positive step because beans do two things in the short term.
They make you more full after a meal and they reduce your post
meal blood sugar response. So you mix beans 5050 with rice,
(13:40):
that alone is going to reduce the effect of the rice on your
blood sugar by 2030%. OK, It's going to make you more
full, which is all, which is amazing.
But in the long term, it's goingto boost your healthy gut
bacteria, which is going to havea carryover effect on your liver
in the longer term. Because beans are one of the
foods that are most influential on the healthy gut bacteria
because of the not only the highfiber content, but the unique
(14:01):
type of fiber that they have. So that's one thing you can do
right away. You can also eat the white rice
at a meal last, and that's not always appealing for everyone.
I call it the food order trick. It's a well known concept in the
world of diabetes management. But if you have a meal, rice,
chicken and broccoli, if you eatthe rice last instead of first,
let's just say it's a totally different blood sugar response.
(14:24):
So you mix it with beans, you potentially have a last in a
meal. You take a walk right after your
meal, that's going to lower yourblood sugar, your peak, right?
You eat more slowly and all of asudden you're carrying that
white rice in your diet without any significant cost to your
insulin resistance, your blood sugar regulation, right?
So that's good. I'm gonna hand it back to you.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And I mean, as being a Hispanic,you describe what I had to do
(14:46):
because there is no way in the world that I'm going to go yeah,
without rice and beans. And I mean, I grew up eating
that every day. But one thing that a lot of my
clients also come with is maybe for you is pasta, maybe for for
you is mashed potatoes. Like if you're from the US in
the South, like it's all about the potatoes and like a lot of
the fried stuff. And sometimes you have to figure
(15:08):
out ways of is it the crispinessthat you like and you maybe cook
it in the air fryer instead of being deep fried.
Like can you use avocado oil instead?
And swap things so that you can still enjoy the food that you
are eating and still incorporatethings that maybe you grew up
and then sometimes have like emotional tie to it, but yet you
can support your health. I grew up eating rice every day.
(15:30):
I don't eat it every day. For me, more some more
celebratory food. But I make sure that whenever I
eat it, I have protein, I have the beans I am gonna move after.
Typically don't like to eat it towards the end of the day and
then veg out by the couch. But I do it just to prevent that
spike. And there are certain things
that spike me the most. Thanksgiving is coming and I
(15:52):
know that. Mashed potatoes, it seems like
no matter what I do, I get that slight headache and I know that
my blood sugar is elevated the moment that I eat it, but I'm
aware of it and I just adapt anddo the best that I can and enjoy
them when I have them. But yeah, this is great stuff.
No, you cover so let's talk about some of the points you
(16:13):
cover cuz nutrition is definitely the game of to each
their own where someone could easily come to me and say that
okay Andy, hey, I wanna reverse fatty liver one or my O1C but
I'm gonna eat white rice every day that's totally doable.
I'm gonna eat pasta, right? So now there's, there's layers
here because you made some interesting points about in your
case, you're having you have white rice a little bit less
(16:33):
often and so on. And you, you apply like the
trick where you or you, you manipulate the food order.
So what I would tell people is that the more often that you you
let's say, have something like like white rice, OK, or pasta,
and the more important it is foryou to manage like insulins and
resistance and blood sugar. You could argue that, yeah, you
(16:54):
know, using the the trick where you have the starched glass is
going to be quite valuable because it's behavior too often.
But it's something to say every single time.
Or if the meals mixed together that you have to sweat it like
it has to be done. So it's a fine line between
saying, hey, this is science, this will help, but you don't
have to do this all the time. It's not like it's going to be a
disaster if you don't. Now for the pasta argument, we
can apply the same thing. Like if someone was really
concerned about topics in this realm and and their post meal
(17:18):
blood sugar response start that you can still have a salad
first, then have your pasta witha protein.
Protein obviously at the meal isgoing to play a big role in
slowing down the blood sugar response.
So if it's pasta with chicken orif it's possible with beans or
someones of vegan or vegetarian,eat the salad first, maybe then
have the pasta with the protein together.
That's a totally different ball game than having pasta alone 1st
(17:40):
and then going having rest of the meal.
Totally different ball game. And in the in one instance it's
easy to say it doesn't matter much, which I agree with, but
this is kind of a big part of someone's life.
Then you want to be aware of these things, and you want to
use them to your advantage as much as possible.
Yep, Yep. And I usually tell just don't
eat carbs naked, right? Never have them.
(18:02):
Like if there was one thing I'm like if you're having insulin
resistance free diabetes. And that was actually the first
advice that I got from like a really good doctor.
She actually helped me reverse it and maintain it.
And she said, like, whatever youdo, it doesn't matter if it's
complex carbon, even if it is a fruit, like just eat it with
either some sort of healthy fat or protein.
Like your body's going to respond differently.
(18:23):
And to this day, I try to abide by that.
So same thing as it can be to get that fresh bread and just
eat it. It's like, OK, like I know
what's going to happen if I don't have something else with
that. It's good, it's good advice also
has a secondary effect. So as the intended effect,
carbohydrates alone are going tocause a bigger increase in blood
(18:43):
sugar and carbohydrates pair of something else.
So it's 100% true. The secondary effect is it
actually forces someone, leads someone to learn, OK, maybe
certain foods have like a synergy together or you're going
to pursue a more diverse diet because, OK, well, I'm having a
carb already, we'll have to havea protein or or a fat.
And maybe those foods were less forthcoming in someone's diet,
(19:04):
right? So I think also as I think about
the consequences of that guidance, it's obviously good
guidance. It actually also has an
additional bonus effect, which is you seek out other foods that
offer nutritional value and you have the higher potential to
make some meals and snacks that really are really robust, cost
nutritionally and offer you a bunch of different benefits,
right? So that's also cool.
(19:25):
OK. I have two more questions before
we wrap up. But yeah, what is your take on
the type of oils? Because I know that there is a
lot of things about seed oils and inflammation and all these
things like Mediterranean diet seem to be like the one that has
like the most research out there, right, Like olive oil and
olives and nuts. But what is your take on that?
(19:47):
Because I know you mentioned thesaturated fat, but what about
the oils? Like the cooking oils?
Yeah, I think that when we, you know, when we think about the
the type of fat and we and what we really want is like
monounsaturated fat, which is what's found in like nuts and
olives and avocado. And what people aren't
necessarily getting a lot in their diet.
That's that's gonna come in the highest supply in olive oil,
(20:09):
avocado oil and olive oil also is very high.
And by the way, here's a fun fact.
So mono unsaturated fat, AKA olive olive oil, it actually
stimulates a greater GLP one release than butter saturated
fat GLP 1. You know, obviously is
popularized the medic in the medical medical realm, but it's
a real thing. Our body releases.
(20:30):
It slows down how food looks oursystem and makes us more sense
of the insulin. So just so everyone knows that
olive oil and there's again, there's clear evidence on this
from good journals. Olive oil stimulates a greater
release. So I would say like the easy
choice is and also olive oil haspolyphenyls and we also have
really good evidence that when polyphenyl intake and polyphenyl
is just a family of antioxidantsthat are good for the gum
(20:50):
microbiome. They have positive lymphs on
inflammation. Higher polyphenyl diets lead to
better outcomes for liver health.
So when olive oil can give you monolith unsaturated fats and
polyphenols, which the average person is low in both in their
diet. The average person, if we pluck
someone off the street, what arethey going to be lower in?
You know, is it going to be saturated fat or is it going to
be olive oil or is it going to be monosaturated fat?
Polyphenols, we know what they're going to be low in
(21:11):
statistically. So I think olive oil or maybe
avocado oil is the easy choice. But if we want to be more broad
about it and let's say economicscoming to the picture, maybe in
the grander scheme, someone can't have the type of diet they
want. And I'm not saying they can't
afford to have olive oil becauseit's more pricey.
I wouldn't think twice about using something like sunflower
oil which is very high in vitamin E and vitamin E is
(21:32):
actually very protective of the liver.
A lot of good evidence on that right?
The polyunsaturated fats which are higher in sunflower oil and
the iron is Sorry I'm kind of rambling here.
The irony is there's also high olake sunflower oil, which means
like it's high in monounsaturated fats.
I don't want anyone who maybe economically can have olive oil
feel bad about eating sunflower oil because really the reality
is what oil you use, if you're willing to do a lot of other
(21:54):
things right, the oil you use is, is almost irrelevant.
The relevance of the oil you usegoes down as the quality of your
diet and lifestyle goes up. And that's true for many things.
I could say the same with the food order trick.
The value of the food order trick goes down as your
lifestyle and dietary habits go up.
It's inevitable because that means you're, you're probably
going to be eating beans and salmon and, and, and you know,
asparagus, a lot of it's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
(22:15):
I know it's big on social media,but you know, if, if you I, I
think the biggest unintended consequence of it is, you know,
one of the my favorite snacks torecommend are like roasted
beans, roasted lentils, roasted chickpeas because it's a
satiating snack, high protein, high fiber.
If you're going to eat any carbon naked beans are the one
because they really are very unique.
They they really are different than any other source of
(22:37):
carbohydrates. So if that was cooked of
sunflower oil because that's economical and drives the price
down, it would be a shame if someone chose something else
instead because they think sunflower is like a sunflower
oil is going to have no negativethe consequences in that
context. And again, studies show when it
comes to liver fat levels, that saturated fat in large amounts
drives liver fat more than anything else, right?
(22:58):
So if you're thinking about liver fat content, then it is
what it is. OK.
And the other question I had is resistant starch because there
was a lot of things and I'm like, is there like true science
behind, oh, if I cook the rice today and I heat it up tomorrow
or the potatoes, does it have a difference in terms of the
impact on your blood sugars or Nah?
(23:22):
Yeah. So resistant starch is, is let's
just think of it as it's essentially like a a type of
fiber for the sake of simplicity.
It's a type of fiber that has a above average effect on the gut
bacteria, which means that not every type of fiber is going to
boost levels healthy gut bacteria in the same way
resistant starch has a much higher potential than maybe
(23:43):
certain other types of fiber. OK, and resistant starch.
Guess what resistant starch is and what's in a lot of beans,
which are, which is one of the reasons why they're so good for
the gut bacteria. It's also in green, but greenish
bananas, greenish bananas are the highest source, right?
So conventional wisdom is like, oh, bananas are bad, spike blood
sugar. But a greenish banana is going
to be lowering glycemic index, higher resistant starch, good
(24:04):
for your gut bacteria? Sure.
Pair it with fat, have it with atablespoon of peanut butter and
a cup of milk or soy milk. That's that's an epic snack.
And to say bananas are bad is only showing a surface level
understanding of like what's going on with food.
The resistant starch basically just accumulates when you cool,
when you cook and cool a potato or rice or pasta and it does
accumulate, essentially increases the fiber content
(24:25):
overnight and it will have a lesser effect on your blood
sugar levels the next day. So having leftover potato, rice,
or pasta is better for blood sugar and gut microbiome health
and as a consequence better for liver health.
Like how much does it matter in the grand scheme?
It depends on what else you're doing and how much you're
relying on that food to be a champion in your diet.
(24:47):
So it could, I mean, it could becompletely irrelevant or it
could be the best thing that you're able to do in this moment
and very important, it all depends on the person.
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to throw a few
random questions just to see, OK, what is that vegetable that
you will not eat? You know what, it's so funny
(25:07):
because I had some friends over last night after playing soccer
and I cooked my friend eggplant.He had me tried.
I can't do it. I just don't like the mouth
feel. No, just eggplant.
Eggplant is not for me. Zucchini on the other hand, no
problem. I think for me, I'm a very like
mouthfeel texture person. So fresh blueberries, no.
Frozen blueberries, yes. Tomato sauce, yes.
(25:29):
But tomatoes like to bite into something and it's mushy on the
inside. I can't do it.
Yeah, I struggle with that. Interesting favorite snack when
you hit that 3:00 PM slump. It has to be some combination of
of fruit and nuts and dark chocolate.
So I don't know a bag of Tangerines, a bag of pecans,
couple squares of dark chocolate, or it could be apples
(25:51):
and a different type of nut and dark chocolate.
Fruit, nuts and dark chocolate for me if I have more time.
If I'm really strapped for time.Honestly I love roasted enamami
snacks. Those would be my 2.
And I recommend a lot of this tomy clients too.
Not because I like them, but because they just fill in gaps.
And the average person's diet that I know are gonna change
their life, That's, that's it, right?
Yeah, yeah. What is your guilty pleasure?
(26:13):
What is that, that food or or thing that you do that you're
like, it may not be 100% good, but I'm still gonna do it?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, OK, like, so I I'm gonna translate that
question into OK, Andy, what foods do you like that are not
like consider traditionally nutritious?
So chips would be 1, French fries would be 1.
(26:34):
Burger, hamburgers for sure. Ice, I mean ice cream cake.
But I mean, really, that's only it.
I mean, who doesn't really like ice cream cake?
I think those would be Yeah, icecream cake, chips, chips I eat
very often. French fries.
I think those would be some of the ones that play a big role.
OK. Yeah, yeah.
(26:54):
Awesome. Any last suggestions for those
that have diabetes or prediabetes or already it's
showing fatty liver, home disease signs or having talks
with the doctors? Something that they can grab at
the end of the episode that you would wanna share?
Yeah, so I'll just say a few things because that's why I
always have a few things to say.I like to talk like I told you
(27:16):
before, like don't underestimatewalking, OK?
That's number one. You know, not everybody.
I mean, look, I encourage peopleto aim high with physical
activity and learn a new skill, and that's great.
But if you don't have a robust background in physical activity,
it's not easy to go just jump into doing some difficult class.
I appreciate that. So don't underestimate walking,
number one. Walking right after a meal,
(27:37):
walking 150 minutes a week, justgetting up because because
walking is not just walking, walking also means you're not
sitting. So it's a double win.
So that's really important to know.
So do not understand the power of walking.
Like studies show if you walk 150 minutes a week, your chance
of reversing fatty liver, all else equals is 3 to 4 times
higher than someone who doesn't do that just from that change
alone. So that's massive.
(27:58):
So don't underestimate that. Do not underestimate that.
I mean, don't, don't underestimate the power of
eating slowly and mindfully, taking a few deep breaths before
a meal, not rushing a meal that will totally change your
appetite, hormone release and your blood sugar response.
And I know a lot of people, theydo try and rush their meals and
they don't kind of protect meal time to the best of your
ability. I would recommend that.
(28:19):
I would also have to say look like I'm a bit biased here, but
if you have any potential or budget at all to speak with a
dietitian, I highly recommend itbecause there's so much
information out there. And if you know somebody could
figure out nutrition for themselves, it's true, but
you're risking a very long and convoluted path and a lot of
(28:40):
unnecessary suffering. And I always tell my clients, my
job is, I say this OK to master nutrition is a multi year
endeavor. My job is to condense the
timeline and make it as painlessas possible.
Whether you do it alone or if someone's help, it's going to be
a multi year endeavor because you have there's there's lessons
you have to learn, trials and tribulations that you have to go
through. There's no magic quote that's
(29:02):
going to take away that, that you have to learn and reflect
and observe, right and try things, see what works for you,
see how you respond to differentsituations, go through a tough
period, see how you're able to recuperate and recover from
that. So it's all that tied in.
So I would say that as well, eatmore beans.
I think beans are the most underappreciated family of
foods. When we look at the people who
(29:23):
live long and like the areas of the world people live the
longest, they always eat beans. Like there's a, there's a study
for a woman from Spain. She lived 117 and they said she
had a gut microbiome of someone decades younger than her, right?
And that doesn't mean that. And she had a Mediterranean
diet, which means beans are involved, doesn't mean that
that's everything. And that explains her longevity.
But if we know this one food is under consumed, it's economical,
(29:45):
it makes you full. You don't have to have that much
of it to feel full. It's good for your gut bacteria.
We see the gut bacterias associate so much with
longevity. You know, it's like where
there's smoke, there's fire sometimes.
It's a no brainer. It's almost like, come on, like
jump in the wild. And a lot of people are And
that's the one thing I'm proud to be Hispanic and I'm proud
that I know how to cook the beans from scratch.
(30:06):
But a lot of people are afraid of like, oh, it's gonna get me
gassy or it's gonna. There are tricks for that.
And sometimes I do share that like there are tricks for that.
There's a science behind it how you prepped it so that you don't
get those side effects. And a lot of times too is
because I know that definitely in America, like the average
intake of fiber is about like 10grams or less.
(30:28):
Yeah. And that is way below like the
guideline. So when you're trying to Add all
these fiber, also the body, I'm not used to all these fiber.
So sometimes even incorporating that, you got to do it slowly.
But there are tricks for that. So don't be afraid of the bees
place if you need to message me if you want the tricks.
I will share the tricks as somebody that's important.
(30:48):
I grew up with rice and beans all the time and I never had an
issue. I'm like, OK, I don't know what
you're talking about. Like our countries eat heavily
on beans and you don't hear that.
It's really important. It's true, it's true.
If people believe that they can't eat them without, I mean,
and let's put it out there. I mean, I think canned lentils
are one of the better tolerated ones of all the beans in terms
of like being a little bit lowerin, in, in thought in Fodmaps,
(31:11):
which anyway, just to mean like start with canned lentils.
If you really are unconfident and start with a low amount,
start with like 1/4 cup. OK, There are actually studies
that quarter cup of lentils a day actually is enough to reduce
insulin resistance, right. So it's not like you have to go
and have a can of beans every day, You know, get canned, try
it. Start with canned lentils, start
with a small amount. Maybe don't have it at a meal
that's otherwise already high infiber from other foods.
(31:33):
There's that's just some quick tips right at the top that you
could use. And the only thing which we
talked about before we start recording is, I mean, I'm sure
to put this in the show. So I do have like that I do have
that online course for fatty liver and I'm going to fit that
50% off code is PB50. That's going to be all in the
description. So it's all good.
But for anyone out there who wants to like learn more about
fatty liver and how and my philosophy to reverse it, but
maybe it's not a position to, you know, go into advanced
(31:56):
coaching on that topic. So I'll throw that out there
too. Thank you so much.
That's amazing. That's very generous of you.
And is there any other place that you would like for them to
connect with you? As you said, I will put all the
information on the show notes, but is there any last thing we
would like to share? Instagram is great.
You know, it's to your point at the beginning, you find that you
learn a lot and and you already know a lot, right.
(32:19):
So I would, I would say that if,if you know, if an individual
who doesn't have your same levelof knowledge, maybe they're
gonna learn twice as much. So, you know, Instagram it is,
yeah. All my clients, any clients that
I hear that I work with or anyone that comes in contact and
they talk about like fatty liver.
I kind of pointed it to you justbecause again, the content is
solid. It's science based.
(32:40):
There's a lot of things out there.
A lot of my clients, sometimes they go on forums and they go on
these groups and, and a lot of people that run these groups,
sometimes they have a hidden agenda.
It's not always science based. Sometimes they're promoting even
supplements or certain extreme diets and it's not safe.
So contact the dietitian, make sure that you you enroll with a
(33:02):
dietitian or make sure that the information that you get is
science based, that is backed byscience and that there is some
evidence behind it and not just some sort of trend that we know
when we're familiar about. Yeah, And you make an important
point. If we just like you talk about
forms and like, look, going and reading people's stories, it's
(33:22):
definitely it's it's definitely powerful, but it's true.
Like when you work with, let's say, a dietitian or any sort of
practitioner that looks at largeamounts of scientific evidence,
then like what they've what they're doing essentially is
they are rapidly combining everyone's story together and
giving you the most likely advice that's going to be
successful. So when you just look at one
(33:43):
person's story, the chance that that story is going to come true
for you is not very high. But when you get feedback from
someone who is constantly looking at everyone's story,
there's a higher percentage chance that you're going to get
the advice that's going to work,right.
So you got to be really careful and be really mindful when you
take in people's stories and anecdotes, like understand,
understand their value for what it is.
(34:03):
Maybe it's motivating, but be really careful because would you
rather do something that work for one person or something that
work for 1000 people, you know, like which one?
If you get the bank, everything on it, what would you rather do?
You know, I think that's maybe areally important message and
something I take for granted because you know, I'm so the
more I learn, I get more and more removed from let's say the
person in my chair. So I have to be very careful and
I appreciate you bringing up that point.
(34:24):
I have to come back down to earth and like realize, OK,
there's science, but there's also real life.
And like I have, we have to findthe middle ground, right?
So that's that's very important.Thank you so much, Andy for your
time. I appreciate all the knowledge.
I am sure that the audience appreciates you as well.
Thank you so much for the discount.
So if anybody has fatty liver disease and you need something
(34:44):
to get started, 50% off is actually a pretty generous
discount. So we appreciate that and
hopefully I'll get to have you again and maybe we can talk a
little bit more. Yeah, you know, you can see,
like I said, I said already today I like to talk, so I'll
definitely come back if you wantme to.
Thank you so much, have an amazing rest of your week.
(35:05):
You too.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.