September 23, 2025 • 27 mins
Aaron Levisay joins to discuss his military service and delve into healthcare regulation. The conversation focuses on Trump's executive order and the challenges surrounding healthcare transparency, highlighting legislative hurdles and the pivotal role transparency plays in healthcare costs. Levisay emphasizes the benefits of direct contracting and the necessity for a free market approach in healthcare. The episode explores potential healthcare reforms and sets the stage for future discussions on the topic.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Today, we're joined by Aaron Levisay, a proudUS military veteran who dedicated nearly thirty
years to service, retiring as a financemanagement supervisor.
He's also a family man, a decorated SouthDakota Air National Guard honoree, and a voice
for faith, history, and constitutionalconservatism.
Let's get into the show.
(00:29):
Following program is part of the PatriotBroadcasting Project brought to you by the seed
projects podcast network.
Welcome in to a very important episode of thePatriot Broadcasting Project.
I'm your host, Bubba Starts, and with me todayis Aaron Levisay.
(00:51):
Aaron, welcome to the show.
Hey, Bubba.
How are doing?
I'm doing well.
I actually just got off the golf course, downin Niobrara to Tonka Golf Club, man.
I've had a great morning.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Yeah.
You're in good you're in a good mood then.
Yeah.
It was wonderful being able to go out and toshoot content content and and and support local
businesses, right, which is what we're allabout.
(01:13):
But also supporting, you know, the truth, andthat's really what the Patriot broadcasting,
project is all about.
Getting information out there that I thinksome, you know, some of our citizens of of, you
know, South Dakota and of the country, really,we're not as informed as we should be.
And you're really working on some great stuff,and I wanna give you the floor.
(01:37):
Just kinda give us a little bit of yourbackstory.
Obviously, we talked a little bit about it inthe intro, but, give us a little bit of
backstory, and then we can talk about theawesome stuff that you're working on right now.
Oh, thanks, Bubba.
Yeah.
Well, I'm just my name is Aaron Lavasay.
I was born, don't take don't hold this againstme.
Was born in Iowa.
Both my parents are from Iowa.
But most of my life, I've lived in, SouthDakota, lived Vermillion, Huron Pier, when I
(02:02):
was a kid, but then moved to Sioux Falls in1980, and then I graduated from those that are
local here in Sioux Falls would know what's nowthe pavilion.
So that that shows you how how old I am, back,many years ago.
Then I got in the army, in the early nineties,and I was there for I was active duty, and then
I, transitioned over.
(02:22):
We moved back to South Dakota.
We kinda moved around a little bit.
Then I got into the South Dakota Air Guard.
And at first, I was just part time, but then itbecame full time, particularly after 09/11.
I deployed to various places over the over theworld, particularly in The Middle East and the
Far East, Iraq from o seven to o eight gotback, and then it was a full time gig.
(02:46):
So I took it, and then I retired in, 2021there.
And so I've been retired since 2021, but as I'dlike to tell people, you know, retirement looks
different for different people, and there's awhole lot more freedom to do, if that makes
sense.
So I've just been kind of trying to, now effectmore freedom for our country and particularly
(03:08):
for our state in areas that it that itheretofore hasn't had.
And so I've been working with some legislatorsjust to get legislation passed, for basically
some structural problems that we have in thestate and actually on the national level, but
not to enact another subsidy or or mandate, butmainly to have free markets where we have a
(03:31):
lack of them.
No.
And you had sent me some really interestingmaterial, about, some things that they've
they've actually had for quite a while, youknow, in the state of New Hampshire that
actually makes it a free market.
And I think what a lot of people don'tunderstand because we hear that term a lot.
But what we have and especially since I I I'mgonna assume it's since, you know, o eight and
(03:55):
Obamacare that it kind of gave the insurancecompanies a lot of oversight on what exactly we
pay for premiums.
And it gave them a lot of, you know, controlover that, and we're not in a free market.
And I think a lot of people don't understandthat at all.
And, actually, Bubba, it was it was actuallythat way before Obamacare.
(04:18):
Obamacare just basically doubled and tripleddown on everything that was wrong, really going
back to the end of World War two.
And so in a in a blanket sense, essentially,what we had at the end of World War two is we
were trying to finish up beating Hitler and andJapan, rightfully so.
There was a bill which passed through congressthat basically treated it was the it was the
(04:43):
McCarran Ferguson Act is what it was.
And it basically said, alright.
We realize you can't pay your war workers verymuch because we're we're under wage and price
controls because we're at a war.
Right?
So what we'll do is we'll allow businesses todeduct health insurance as, on taxes.
And while that's a sounds really good.
(05:04):
Right?
But the fact is ever since then, it's distortedeverything to the point where hospitals,
insurance companies, doctors, dentists,everybody within actual health care provision
of some sort got and said, when you go to ahospital, when you go to that, not what does it
cost, but what's your insurance?
You see what I'm saying?
So, again, the worst things that have happenedhave been over almost have been over seven
(05:29):
decades, Eight decades.
I'm sorry.
And it's been but because of that, people havebeen saying since before you and I were born in
the sixties, hey.
The whole problem is the distortion.
Of all Obamacare did as ClintonCare would havedone before that was just double and triple
down on the same problem, and the problem,again, is lack of transparency.
(05:50):
Yeah.
I bet you could tell me right now generallywhat your microphone costs.
Right, Bubba?
Oh, of course.
You could tell me at least how much your pairof shoes cost or at least a pair of shoes for
men.
K?
Of course.
What's an office visit?
No idea.
Yep.
What's a what's a knee replacement, generally?
(06:12):
Yeah.
No idea.
Yeah.
So, again, if how can we have a rational systemwhere if we have the producers and the
consumers?
Right?
Because this is an economic arrangement.
Yes.
It's different because it's life saving.
If only one side is able to define what's usualand customary and you can't negotiate because,
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you know, this my arm's using, some economicshere.
Demand and supply and where they meet is price.
But when you don't have prices, how do you knowwhether it's good, bad?
Might be good.
Might be bad.
You don't know.
So the whole there's one whole half of theequation that's been missing for eighty years.
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And so because of that, for McCarran FergusonAct that I mentioned, the odd thing about this
was is while they made this as a general thingfor employers everywhere, they also made a nod
to federalism, but, again, it almost made itworse because now they made states, responsible
for regulation of health insurance.
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So you almost to to to have a free market inhealth care, sadly, you almost have to go state
by state and free it up.
So that's where my state my South Dakotaefforts are are are there.
Well and at least we have the ability to changeit at a state level instead of having to make,
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you know, more federal legislation, which aquagmire that that is to do anything unless all
the pockets are getting lined at the same time,to to get anything done.
So very grateful, and I know our stategovernment works much in the same way, and it
is a microcosm of the federal government.
The more legislators that I that I, you know,interview on this show and the more I learn
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about, you know, the the people that we have inPierre and in Washington that the game is very
much the same.
The players merely change names.
And I'm so thankful that we have someone inSouth Dakota.
I'm a South Dakotan and a a proud one at thatthat I want to see change.
I want to see people have a chance to to getaccess to health care that's fair.
(08:28):
Right?
Because insurance premiums continue toskyrocket.
They they are now, you know, higher thanthey've ever been, I would assume.
And the quality of health care has continued togo down as well.
And we saw that firsthand when earlier thisyear, my father-in-law, broke his leg pretty
(08:48):
gruesomely.
Mhmm.
Right?
And and they were like, well, we're just gonnasend you home, and we'll do antibiotic
treatments for there.
Well, he has an infection on his leg, and we'retalking about life threatening infections.
And they don't wanna pay for him to stay in thehospital because of the insurance companies.
And I do believe he's old enough to be coveredby Medicare, but they're try and it was a fight
just to get him the care that he needed anddeserved.
(09:11):
And it was just it was very eye opening to meto to see that and to see how hard, you know,
my mother-in-law had to fight with these peopleto be like, no.
You're gonna do what's right and not just whatmakes sense in your ledger book.
Right.
Well and this is the problem.
Everything's distorted.
So the sad part, Bubba, that basically I amletting you know and letting your listeners
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know is that it's been distorted for eightdecades.
So it it's been distorted.
So where are in most parts of America where wefind most dissatisfaction?
Lack of transparency, really.
Right?
It's generally in the health, education, and inthe pension areas.
I mean, those are the and the oddly enough,those are the three that are the most expensive
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either at the state or federal level.
Just a little bit for you folks to know, andfor you to know is that this was so bad, in the
first Trump term.
He, basically had his HHS director at thattime.
I can't remember who it was.
Basically but he sent out an EO that thatbasically told the hospitals, you will post
(10:18):
your prices.
In 2019, he did that.
So that was, like, decades.
Nobody thought of that.
And I was like, god.
I don't know why you didn't do that.
Now that he's back in office again, he hasagain reiterated that.
So, I think I sent you some things from apatient's advocacy group, where all they do is
and then by the way, that organization was runby a former, health care CEO, and she got out
(10:42):
of it because she just I can't take thisanymore.
And they list prices or they're trying to listprices for basically every hospital in America.
And they basically also list a scorecard for,like, which hospitals in every state, in every
single state of the union are compliant withpresident Trump's 2019.
And then once again, he reiterated it in 2021right before he left the first time.
(11:04):
And then again, of course, this year when hewas reelected.
Which ones are fully compliant?
In South Dakota, do you know how many there arethat are fully compliant with posting all their
prices, Bubba?
Three.
No.
That's actually, that's that's actuallyoveroptimistic.
There's one.
It's down in Viberg.
That's it.
(11:25):
Wow.
Well and we know, having lived here that ourhealth care options in the state of South
Dakota are extremely limited.
Right.
And you also know and I because I sent this toyou, but there's an a professor of business up
at SDSU that South Dakota is number one formedical debt in the nation.
Number one.
Not number two, not number 50, not number 14.
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Number one.
So we have a problem.
We have a problem.
Urgent one at that that needs attention becausehow can you be free if you are settle saddled
with all of this debt that you are just workingthe rest of your life to pay off and never
getting out from under the weight of that?
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I can't imagine.
And never knowing what that debt actually is.
I mean, you could be done with something with ahospital and then years later have another bill
come through.
And you you don't even know what it's forbecause everything's all through codes.
And one of the interesting things about it,Bubba, is that, you know, everything is done
basically via medical coding.
Guess what?
They they won't allow the public to see whatthe codes are.
(12:29):
So so data analysts can't even, like, figureout well, of course, we don't even know their
billing procedures.
Now some of that is changing, but it's reallyslow.
But, I mean, that was why I was, you know,chatting with you and and sent you a bunch of
those things that the only way this is evergoing to be solved at our state level or any
case is let's we can there will be other thingswe can do, but the first thing is what does it
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cost?
Please, just what is the average cost for x, y,and z procedure or this and that?
Right?
Like like, that's just about as basic as aneconomic transaction as you can have.
Right?
Well and I think that you have to start fromthat place of transparency before you can even
begin the discussion about what do we do.
(13:15):
Well, we have to know what is actually goingon.
And and so this is what your mission is firstoff.
And and so what are you working on, Aaron, tokinda bring that about?
Are are you working with legislators to bringsome kind of bill to the table and to have
something enacted that forces the, I mean, itsounds like the president has already issued an
(13:35):
EO, an executive order into this.
Why we shouldn't have to further, you know,implicate these people into it, you would
think.
But what what is it, that we can do as citizensto support these efforts as well?
Well, yes.
The first thing that I'm trying to do is what'sknown as an APCD, and that is an all payer
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claims data database here in the state of SouthDakota, which is exactly what they did in New
Hampshire.
And for the those people that don't know,basically, what happened was there was a bill
that was passed in New Hampshire back in02/2004, 02/2005.
And, all it is is the Department of Insurancein a in a state, and you could do this also
(14:18):
with Medicare and Medicaid down the road if youwant to, but let's just leave it with
commercial payers.
Right?
Every insurance company that was licensedwithin the state of New Hampshire, basically,
they were they took all of the claim data,every single Omnibus claim data, redacted the
names, and by procedure.
So they redacted the names.
There was no HIPAA violations or anything likethat.
(14:39):
And, basically, just averaged out what each onewould cost if you were gonna pay cash.
So, essentially, that was the closest thingthat we they ever got to a market price.
Basically, what was the physician or dentistreimbursement?
Because it wasn't just doctors.
It was also dentists too.
And so that was really wonderful, and they hadit they there was a University of Michigan
(15:02):
economist that studied that and said, wow.
These guys over ten years, it it wasinteresting how New Hampshire's prices that
were either steady or went down even with anaging population.
Now I know that correlation is not causation,Bubba, but it it would seem to me that the
transparency at least played some kind of arole.
And then with the with the links that I sentyou in your email, you know, people that live
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in New Hampshire, I mean, it's a one it's apublic site.
You can go on there and you can say, okay.
I'm gonna I have this kind of insurance in thestate of New Hampshire, and I need to get an
ambulance.
And how much would it cost if I lived?
And then it would tell you, okay.
For this cost, like, you I mean, I'm not sayingeverybody would necessarily pay out of the
pocket, but at least they would know what itwould be so that if they would get insurance
(15:49):
bill back, they could say, no.
No.
The state says this is what what it reallycosts.
I'm not gonna pay this.
The so my point is is that not only do theygive you the average because the average
insurance cost really basically is the marketprice.
It's not a true market price, but it's theclosest we have.
You see what I'm saying?
So now since they did it, they were sort of thepioneers there.
(16:12):
Since then, 20 other states have passed this.
Latest one, I think, was Louisiana a coupleyears ago in 2022.
So the point is I wanna bring this to SouthDakota so we can go on a government state
government website, okay, where they can list,the average costs if you had this insurance for
these procedures much the same way that, NewHampshire does.
(16:35):
That is the legislation that, we brought beforethe, commerce commit the South Dakota Commerce
Committee because they deal with insurance.
Not you'd think it'd be health, but it's not.
It's actually commerce since it's an insurancething.
And so I brought it up before the, the statelegislature this past year.
Well and I've unfortunately, I know it's goingto be an uphill battle because health care is
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such big business, one of the biggestindustries, if not the biggest industry in
South Dakota.
It's the
biggest.
You're going to have very, very interestedparties with deep pockets lobbying against any
kind of legislation that affects their bottomline.
So it's an uphill battle.
I think it's gonna take a lot of, you know,public outcry for something like this to get
(17:22):
people to change their minds.
And I think that, you know, with what we'redoing here at the Patriot Broadcasting Project
and the SCENE Projects as a whole is raisingthat vibration of the public's voice to have
people like yourself on and to give you aplatform because I guarantee any of the news
organizations of which there are very few aregonna have you on to talk about this when their
(17:45):
major advertisers are those medical companies.
Right?
Right.
So independent media is the only way that wecan get this information out there.
What are some of the other challenges maybethat you're facing getting this through?
Do you have legislators that are willing tobring this to the floor and and to try and
convince their other, legislators to to supportit?
(18:07):
Yeah.
I mean and just to let you know, the mainlegislator I've been working with, and he would
be a great interviewee, which would berepresentative Aaron Alward, down in
Harrisburg.
Great guy if you've never interviewed him.
And he's he's, the chairman of the FreedomCaucus in the state of South Dakota.
So he's and he's a free market guy from theword go.
The main thing that it is is just trying to getpeople to understand and now the the problem
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that we had is that this was a very expensiveyear.
They were just like, we can't do it because Iam asking for one more full time person at
least in the department of insurance.
Yes.
And I was full and I was I was I was very,forthright in saying, look.
You're gonna have to you know, I'm I'm notsomebody who doesn't like government, generally
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being outside of its prescribed.
But if governments made this problem, you'regonna have to have it, you know, lower down at
the state level to fix the problem that gotmade at the federal level sometimes.
And until we would actually get a free market,then maybe you wouldn't need the government
agency again.
But right now, that's the only one that wouldknow where the insurance data is, Bubba.
There's no other there's no other place thatcollects it.
(19:16):
So but it was told that it was just a littlebit too expensive.
I think the I think the prison had a lot to dowith that.
No.
Right.
Yeah.
That.
So there was no money for anything, and and Ithought yeah.
I don't wanna get you started.
Right?
But, it was funny being there.
So, basically, representative Albert tabled it.
So he didn't kill it.
He tabled it.
(19:36):
There were a lot of people that were like,well, this is a great idea, particularly since,
a, it's already been done in us in 20 states,and it's been done well.
And I if we're able to do that and the otherthing is is basically people to know that this,
patient advocacy group that rates all thehospitals in all the states is there.
And they have all these wonderful videos thatthat have it has worked.
(20:01):
I think I sent you one word.
Like, the state of Montana went direct withtheir state employees to just contract directly
with the hospitals.
Their their state employees got better in termsof better health care checks.
The the the cost went way down.
They actually the state of Montana, healthdepartment actually gave money back to the
legislature.
(20:23):
Now tell me
And just using these these things in the sideof the government to to serve the employees of
the government.
Imagine what it could do across the board forall of the all of the private citizens.
And Exactly.
I need to quit using that term.
I know Aaron Prince is gonna have my head forthat, but, we'll, we'll get to that in another
(20:45):
one.
I don't know what to call everyone anymore.
The more I learn about the law, the more Ilearn we don't know anything about it as, you
know, average people.
And it's been such a big reason why I startedthis program last year, you know, around
October was just to have real conversations.
Somebody please come on and tell us what'sactually going on.
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And we've been very fortunate to have a coupleof representatives.
Tessa Schwands and Bobby Andera have been onwith us.
We've had US congressional candidate, JamesBayalata, come on with us recently out of Rapid
City.
And to the more you know, the more outraged youbecome.
And I Exactly.
Can only imagine that this is not going to besomething that happens overnight No.
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Because of the lobby of the medical, you know,industry here in South Dakota and, how how much
they've contributed to the campaigns of, Iwould assume, you know, a vast majority of the
legislators that are in office already.
Well and the thing of it is what we're gonnahave to really ask ourselves, Bubba, is do we
wanna continue with this eight decade cartelmarket?
(21:53):
And I and market, by the way, should be inquotes because that's right.
Or do we wanna actually try the one thing we'venever really tried, whether it was Hillary care
or Obamacare or anything else, an actual freemarket.
I mean, you know, we don't argue about thingsthat are already working.
I mean, did you ever argue about where you gotyour tires at a tire shop?
No.
Because you already it it it says, hey.
(22:14):
We'll do your tires for this amount, and thenwe don't argue about things that work.
Well and then I was able to compare their priceand service against the price and service of
everyone else because I had all the data.
And that's really all we're asking for here tobegin with.
And the legislation that you're, you know,working to get brought forth in in the house
and senate is to just give us sometransparency.
(22:37):
Tell us what things actually cost.
Show us the data and let the market decide theprice, not a few people behind locked doors
with locked file cabinets and just saying,well, no.
This is what it's gonna cost, and it depends onwho you're insured with, whether you get the
care that you need.
And, you know, no more surprise bills.
(22:58):
You you go and and you'd can't get a straightanswer out of anyone, and then you're saddled
with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debtthat you will spend years or
The rest of your life.
Just go ahead and say the rest of your life.
The rest of your life.
Right?
That that is the point is to keep these thesefree people in debt, which makes us all slaves.
(23:21):
It makes us tax slaves and debt slaves.
And I think as more people wake up to that factthat we're already living in this crazy caste
system that is set up around us already, butyet we speak about how free we are in this
country, and we have no idea what real freedomactually is.
(23:42):
You know, one of the problems that we had inthe twentieth century, one that I think you and
I were both born in sadly, Bob, is now thatI've really studied the history and stuff like
that, it was sort of at least in the after thethe first third, with the New Deal
particularly, we basically didn't realize, butwe were basically going back into neo
feudalism.
Mean, when you think about much of how societyhas really basically gone since then, it's
(24:04):
really neo feudalism.
It's really one of the great errors of thetwentieth century.
In the twenty first century, we really shouldbe getting back to actual freedom and actual
liberty, and that means really in all spheres.
In the economic sphere, we're extremelyconstrained in The United States.
So sadly.
So let's let's just go back to what workedbefore that.
Oh, you're talking some big ideas here, Aaron,and I love it.
(24:27):
I, but it starts with small steps.
It starts with transparency, and that is what,America demanded, when the mandate was
delivered in November with a landslide win forpresident Trump, and we wanna know what's going
on.
And not that we've had a lot of it since, sincehe's taken office, but we need to continue to
(24:50):
demand it at every single level.
And it sounds like with what we're doing andbecause we have a blueprint for this from 20
other states, we know that it's not justpossible, but that it actually works to bring
the cost of health care down.
And I think that's something that every SouthDakotan and every US, you know, every person
(25:11):
living in The United States, could be thrilledabout.
I mean, think about it.
Think about how much, at least since in mymemory, every every, presidential election
pretty much since '92, health care has been oneof the top five.
And what sadly, again, with the twentiethcentury mindset being so dumb, it was always
double and triple down on all the stuff thatmade it horrible from you know?
(25:34):
But finally, now with the Internet age thatwe've had for about thirty years or so, people
are starting like, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
The real problem is we don't have prices.
The real problem is the consumer's out of it.
The real problem is we don't have transparency.
If we have that, you know, passing a law toestablish a market is different from another
subsidy or another kickback or another anotherrestriction on info.
(25:56):
You know?
So that so we're we're doing somethingdifferent here in the state of South Dakota,
and hopefully, nationwide, and just saying, youknow, most of this stuff is gonna get fixed.
And so we don't, like, have to keep discussingit forever and ever.
Right?
If we just have a free market, it it it justtakes care of so many things.
Awesome, Aaron.
Well, we're gonna be following closely.
(26:17):
The door is open anytime you need to come backand give us some updates on all of this.
I am definitely going to have representativeAlward, you said, is how you say his name?
Yep.
Yep.
We're gonna definitely get him on the show aswell to talk even more about this and maybe a
little bit more about the legislative side andwhat we can do as as voters to, enact some
(26:38):
change and to really put some pressure on our,representatives that are in peers.
So thank you so much for taking some time forme today, and thank you for being part of the
scene.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it so much.
Today, we're joined by Aaron Levisay, a proudUS military veteran who dedicated nearly thirty
years to service, retiring as a financemanagement supervisor.
He's also a family man, a decorated SouthDakota Air National Guard honoree, and a voice
for faith, history, and constitutionalconservatism.
Let's get into the show.
(00:29):
Following program is part of the PatriotBroadcasting Project brought to you by the seed
projects podcast network.
Welcome in to a very important episode of thePatriot Broadcasting Project.
I'm your host, Bubba Starts, and with me todayis Aaron Levisay.
(00:51):
Aaron, welcome to the show.
Hey, Bubba.
How are doing?
I'm doing well.
I actually just got off the golf course, downin Niobrara to Tonka Golf Club, man.
I've had a great morning.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Yeah.
You're in good you're in a good mood then.
Yeah.
It was wonderful being able to go out and toshoot content content and and and support local
businesses, right, which is what we're allabout.
(01:13):
But also supporting, you know, the truth, andthat's really what the Patriot broadcasting,
project is all about.
Getting information out there that I thinksome, you know, some of our citizens of of, you
know, South Dakota and of the country, really,we're not as informed as we should be.
And you're really working on some great stuff,and I wanna give you the floor.
(01:37):
Just kinda give us a little bit of yourbackstory.
Obviously, we talked a little bit about it inthe intro, but, give us a little bit of
backstory, and then we can talk about theawesome stuff that you're working on right now.
Oh, thanks, Bubba.
Yeah.
Well, I'm just my name is Aaron Lavasay.
I was born, don't take don't hold this againstme.
Was born in Iowa.
Both my parents are from Iowa.
But most of my life, I've lived in, SouthDakota, lived Vermillion, Huron Pier, when I
(02:02):
was a kid, but then moved to Sioux Falls in1980, and then I graduated from those that are
local here in Sioux Falls would know what's nowthe pavilion.
So that that shows you how how old I am, back,many years ago.
Then I got in the army, in the early nineties,and I was there for I was active duty, and then
I, transitioned over.
(02:22):
We moved back to South Dakota.
We kinda moved around a little bit.
Then I got into the South Dakota Air Guard.
And at first, I was just part time, but then itbecame full time, particularly after 09/11.
I deployed to various places over the over theworld, particularly in The Middle East and the
Far East, Iraq from o seven to o eight gotback, and then it was a full time gig.
(02:46):
So I took it, and then I retired in, 2021there.
And so I've been retired since 2021, but as I'dlike to tell people, you know, retirement looks
different for different people, and there's awhole lot more freedom to do, if that makes
sense.
So I've just been kind of trying to, now effectmore freedom for our country and particularly
(03:08):
for our state in areas that it that itheretofore hasn't had.
And so I've been working with some legislatorsjust to get legislation passed, for basically
some structural problems that we have in thestate and actually on the national level, but
not to enact another subsidy or or mandate, butmainly to have free markets where we have a
(03:31):
lack of them.
No.
And you had sent me some really interestingmaterial, about, some things that they've
they've actually had for quite a while, youknow, in the state of New Hampshire that
actually makes it a free market.
And I think what a lot of people don'tunderstand because we hear that term a lot.
But what we have and especially since I I I'mgonna assume it's since, you know, o eight and
(03:55):
Obamacare that it kind of gave the insurancecompanies a lot of oversight on what exactly we
pay for premiums.
And it gave them a lot of, you know, controlover that, and we're not in a free market.
And I think a lot of people don't understandthat at all.
And, actually, Bubba, it was it was actuallythat way before Obamacare.
(04:18):
Obamacare just basically doubled and tripleddown on everything that was wrong, really going
back to the end of World War two.
And so in a in a blanket sense, essentially,what we had at the end of World War two is we
were trying to finish up beating Hitler and andJapan, rightfully so.
There was a bill which passed through congressthat basically treated it was the it was the
(04:43):
McCarran Ferguson Act is what it was.
And it basically said, alright.
We realize you can't pay your war workers verymuch because we're we're under wage and price
controls because we're at a war.
Right?
So what we'll do is we'll allow businesses todeduct health insurance as, on taxes.
And while that's a sounds really good.
(05:04):
Right?
But the fact is ever since then, it's distortedeverything to the point where hospitals,
insurance companies, doctors, dentists,everybody within actual health care provision
of some sort got and said, when you go to ahospital, when you go to that, not what does it
cost, but what's your insurance?
You see what I'm saying?
So, again, the worst things that have happenedhave been over almost have been over seven
(05:29):
decades, Eight decades.
I'm sorry.
And it's been but because of that, people havebeen saying since before you and I were born in
the sixties, hey.
The whole problem is the distortion.
Of all Obamacare did as ClintonCare would havedone before that was just double and triple
down on the same problem, and the problem,again, is lack of transparency.
(05:50):
Yeah.
I bet you could tell me right now generallywhat your microphone costs.
Right, Bubba?
Oh, of course.
You could tell me at least how much your pairof shoes cost or at least a pair of shoes for
men.
K?
Of course.
What's an office visit?
No idea.
Yep.
What's a what's a knee replacement, generally?
(06:12):
Yeah.
No idea.
Yeah.
So, again, if how can we have a rational systemwhere if we have the producers and the
consumers?
Right?
Because this is an economic arrangement.
Yes.
It's different because it's life saving.
If only one side is able to define what's usualand customary and you can't negotiate because,
(06:33):
you know, this my arm's using, some economicshere.
Demand and supply and where they meet is price.
But when you don't have prices, how do you knowwhether it's good, bad?
Might be good.
Might be bad.
You don't know.
So the whole there's one whole half of theequation that's been missing for eighty years.
(06:53):
And so because of that, for McCarran FergusonAct that I mentioned, the odd thing about this
was is while they made this as a general thingfor employers everywhere, they also made a nod
to federalism, but, again, it almost made itworse because now they made states, responsible
for regulation of health insurance.
(07:13):
So you almost to to to have a free market inhealth care, sadly, you almost have to go state
by state and free it up.
So that's where my state my South Dakotaefforts are are are there.
Well and at least we have the ability to changeit at a state level instead of having to make,
(07:35):
you know, more federal legislation, which aquagmire that that is to do anything unless all
the pockets are getting lined at the same time,to to get anything done.
So very grateful, and I know our stategovernment works much in the same way, and it
is a microcosm of the federal government.
The more legislators that I that I, you know,interview on this show and the more I learn
(08:00):
about, you know, the the people that we have inPierre and in Washington that the game is very
much the same.
The players merely change names.
And I'm so thankful that we have someone inSouth Dakota.
I'm a South Dakotan and a a proud one at thatthat I want to see change.
I want to see people have a chance to to getaccess to health care that's fair.
(08:28):
Right?
Because insurance premiums continue toskyrocket.
They they are now, you know, higher thanthey've ever been, I would assume.
And the quality of health care has continued togo down as well.
And we saw that firsthand when earlier thisyear, my father-in-law, broke his leg pretty
(08:48):
gruesomely.
Mhmm.
Right?
And and they were like, well, we're just gonnasend you home, and we'll do antibiotic
treatments for there.
Well, he has an infection on his leg, and we'retalking about life threatening infections.
And they don't wanna pay for him to stay in thehospital because of the insurance companies.
And I do believe he's old enough to be coveredby Medicare, but they're try and it was a fight
just to get him the care that he needed anddeserved.
(09:11):
And it was just it was very eye opening to meto to see that and to see how hard, you know,
my mother-in-law had to fight with these peopleto be like, no.
You're gonna do what's right and not just whatmakes sense in your ledger book.
Right.
Well and this is the problem.
Everything's distorted.
So the sad part, Bubba, that basically I amletting you know and letting your listeners
(09:34):
know is that it's been distorted for eightdecades.
So it it's been distorted.
So where are in most parts of America where wefind most dissatisfaction?
Lack of transparency, really.
Right?
It's generally in the health, education, and inthe pension areas.
I mean, those are the and the oddly enough,those are the three that are the most expensive
(09:56):
either at the state or federal level.
Just a little bit for you folks to know, andfor you to know is that this was so bad, in the
first Trump term.
He, basically had his HHS director at thattime.
I can't remember who it was.
Basically but he sent out an EO that thatbasically told the hospitals, you will post
(10:18):
your prices.
In 2019, he did that.
So that was, like, decades.
Nobody thought of that.
And I was like, god.
I don't know why you didn't do that.
Now that he's back in office again, he hasagain reiterated that.
So, I think I sent you some things from apatient's advocacy group, where all they do is
and then by the way, that organization was runby a former, health care CEO, and she got out
(10:42):
of it because she just I can't take thisanymore.
And they list prices or they're trying to listprices for basically every hospital in America.
And they basically also list a scorecard for,like, which hospitals in every state, in every
single state of the union are compliant withpresident Trump's 2019.
And then once again, he reiterated it in 2021right before he left the first time.
(11:04):
And then again, of course, this year when hewas reelected.
Which ones are fully compliant?
In South Dakota, do you know how many there arethat are fully compliant with posting all their
prices, Bubba?
Three.
No.
That's actually, that's that's actuallyoveroptimistic.
There's one.
It's down in Viberg.
That's it.
(11:25):
Wow.
Well and we know, having lived here that ourhealth care options in the state of South
Dakota are extremely limited.
Right.
And you also know and I because I sent this toyou, but there's an a professor of business up
at SDSU that South Dakota is number one formedical debt in the nation.
Number one.
Not number two, not number 50, not number 14.
(11:47):
Number one.
So we have a problem.
We have a problem.
Urgent one at that that needs attention becausehow can you be free if you are settle saddled
with all of this debt that you are just workingthe rest of your life to pay off and never
getting out from under the weight of that?
(12:08):
I can't imagine.
And never knowing what that debt actually is.
I mean, you could be done with something with ahospital and then years later have another bill
come through.
And you you don't even know what it's forbecause everything's all through codes.
And one of the interesting things about it,Bubba, is that, you know, everything is done
basically via medical coding.
Guess what?
They they won't allow the public to see whatthe codes are.
(12:29):
So so data analysts can't even, like, figureout well, of course, we don't even know their
billing procedures.
Now some of that is changing, but it's reallyslow.
But, I mean, that was why I was, you know,chatting with you and and sent you a bunch of
those things that the only way this is evergoing to be solved at our state level or any
case is let's we can there will be other thingswe can do, but the first thing is what does it
(12:54):
cost?
Please, just what is the average cost for x, y,and z procedure or this and that?
Right?
Like like, that's just about as basic as aneconomic transaction as you can have.
Right?
Well and I think that you have to start fromthat place of transparency before you can even
begin the discussion about what do we do.
(13:15):
Well, we have to know what is actually goingon.
And and so this is what your mission is firstoff.
And and so what are you working on, Aaron, tokinda bring that about?
Are are you working with legislators to bringsome kind of bill to the table and to have
something enacted that forces the, I mean, itsounds like the president has already issued an
(13:35):
EO, an executive order into this.
Why we shouldn't have to further, you know,implicate these people into it, you would
think.
But what what is it, that we can do as citizensto support these efforts as well?
Well, yes.
The first thing that I'm trying to do is what'sknown as an APCD, and that is an all payer
(13:58):
claims data database here in the state of SouthDakota, which is exactly what they did in New
Hampshire.
And for the those people that don't know,basically, what happened was there was a bill
that was passed in New Hampshire back in02/2004, 02/2005.
And, all it is is the Department of Insurancein a in a state, and you could do this also
(14:18):
with Medicare and Medicaid down the road if youwant to, but let's just leave it with
commercial payers.
Right?
Every insurance company that was licensedwithin the state of New Hampshire, basically,
they were they took all of the claim data,every single Omnibus claim data, redacted the
names, and by procedure.
So they redacted the names.
There was no HIPAA violations or anything likethat.
(14:39):
And, basically, just averaged out what each onewould cost if you were gonna pay cash.
So, essentially, that was the closest thingthat we they ever got to a market price.
Basically, what was the physician or dentistreimbursement?
Because it wasn't just doctors.
It was also dentists too.
And so that was really wonderful, and they hadit they there was a University of Michigan
(15:02):
economist that studied that and said, wow.
These guys over ten years, it it wasinteresting how New Hampshire's prices that
were either steady or went down even with anaging population.
Now I know that correlation is not causation,Bubba, but it it would seem to me that the
transparency at least played some kind of arole.
And then with the with the links that I sentyou in your email, you know, people that live
(15:25):
in New Hampshire, I mean, it's a one it's apublic site.
You can go on there and you can say, okay.
I'm gonna I have this kind of insurance in thestate of New Hampshire, and I need to get an
ambulance.
And how much would it cost if I lived?
And then it would tell you, okay.
For this cost, like, you I mean, I'm not sayingeverybody would necessarily pay out of the
pocket, but at least they would know what itwould be so that if they would get insurance
(15:49):
bill back, they could say, no.
No.
The state says this is what what it reallycosts.
I'm not gonna pay this.
The so my point is is that not only do theygive you the average because the average
insurance cost really basically is the marketprice.
It's not a true market price, but it's theclosest we have.
You see what I'm saying?
So now since they did it, they were sort of thepioneers there.
(16:12):
Since then, 20 other states have passed this.
Latest one, I think, was Louisiana a coupleyears ago in 2022.
So the point is I wanna bring this to SouthDakota so we can go on a government state
government website, okay, where they can list,the average costs if you had this insurance for
these procedures much the same way that, NewHampshire does.
(16:35):
That is the legislation that, we brought beforethe, commerce commit the South Dakota Commerce
Committee because they deal with insurance.
Not you'd think it'd be health, but it's not.
It's actually commerce since it's an insurancething.
And so I brought it up before the, the statelegislature this past year.
Well and I've unfortunately, I know it's goingto be an uphill battle because health care is
(16:59):
such big business, one of the biggestindustries, if not the biggest industry in
South Dakota.
It's the
biggest.
You're going to have very, very interestedparties with deep pockets lobbying against any
kind of legislation that affects their bottomline.
So it's an uphill battle.
I think it's gonna take a lot of, you know,public outcry for something like this to get
(17:22):
people to change their minds.
And I think that, you know, with what we'redoing here at the Patriot Broadcasting Project
and the SCENE Projects as a whole is raisingthat vibration of the public's voice to have
people like yourself on and to give you aplatform because I guarantee any of the news
organizations of which there are very few aregonna have you on to talk about this when their
(17:45):
major advertisers are those medical companies.
Right?
Right.
So independent media is the only way that wecan get this information out there.
What are some of the other challenges maybethat you're facing getting this through?
Do you have legislators that are willing tobring this to the floor and and to try and
convince their other, legislators to to supportit?
(18:07):
Yeah.
I mean and just to let you know, the mainlegislator I've been working with, and he would
be a great interviewee, which would berepresentative Aaron Alward, down in
Harrisburg.
Great guy if you've never interviewed him.
And he's he's, the chairman of the FreedomCaucus in the state of South Dakota.
So he's and he's a free market guy from theword go.
The main thing that it is is just trying to getpeople to understand and now the the problem
(18:34):
that we had is that this was a very expensiveyear.
They were just like, we can't do it because Iam asking for one more full time person at
least in the department of insurance.
Yes.
And I was full and I was I was I was very,forthright in saying, look.
You're gonna have to you know, I'm I'm notsomebody who doesn't like government, generally
(18:54):
being outside of its prescribed.
But if governments made this problem, you'regonna have to have it, you know, lower down at
the state level to fix the problem that gotmade at the federal level sometimes.
And until we would actually get a free market,then maybe you wouldn't need the government
agency again.
But right now, that's the only one that wouldknow where the insurance data is, Bubba.
There's no other there's no other place thatcollects it.
(19:16):
So but it was told that it was just a littlebit too expensive.
I think the I think the prison had a lot to dowith that.
No.
Right.
Yeah.
That.
So there was no money for anything, and and Ithought yeah.
I don't wanna get you started.
Right?
But, it was funny being there.
So, basically, representative Albert tabled it.
So he didn't kill it.
He tabled it.
(19:36):
There were a lot of people that were like,well, this is a great idea, particularly since,
a, it's already been done in us in 20 states,and it's been done well.
And I if we're able to do that and the otherthing is is basically people to know that this,
patient advocacy group that rates all thehospitals in all the states is there.
And they have all these wonderful videos thatthat have it has worked.
(20:01):
I think I sent you one word.
Like, the state of Montana went direct withtheir state employees to just contract directly
with the hospitals.
Their their state employees got better in termsof better health care checks.
The the the cost went way down.
They actually the state of Montana, healthdepartment actually gave money back to the
legislature.
(20:23):
Now tell me
And just using these these things in the sideof the government to to serve the employees of
the government.
Imagine what it could do across the board forall of the all of the private citizens.
And Exactly.
I need to quit using that term.
I know Aaron Prince is gonna have my head forthat, but, we'll, we'll get to that in another
(20:45):
one.
I don't know what to call everyone anymore.
The more I learn about the law, the more Ilearn we don't know anything about it as, you
know, average people.
And it's been such a big reason why I startedthis program last year, you know, around
October was just to have real conversations.
Somebody please come on and tell us what'sactually going on.
(21:06):
And we've been very fortunate to have a coupleof representatives.
Tessa Schwands and Bobby Andera have been onwith us.
We've had US congressional candidate, JamesBayalata, come on with us recently out of Rapid
City.
And to the more you know, the more outraged youbecome.
And I Exactly.
Can only imagine that this is not going to besomething that happens overnight No.
(21:30):
Because of the lobby of the medical, you know,industry here in South Dakota and, how how much
they've contributed to the campaigns of, Iwould assume, you know, a vast majority of the
legislators that are in office already.
Well and the thing of it is what we're gonnahave to really ask ourselves, Bubba, is do we
wanna continue with this eight decade cartelmarket?
(21:53):
And I and market, by the way, should be inquotes because that's right.
Or do we wanna actually try the one thing we'venever really tried, whether it was Hillary care
or Obamacare or anything else, an actual freemarket.
I mean, you know, we don't argue about thingsthat are already working.
I mean, did you ever argue about where you gotyour tires at a tire shop?
No.
Because you already it it it says, hey.
(22:14):
We'll do your tires for this amount, and thenwe don't argue about things that work.
Well and then I was able to compare their priceand service against the price and service of
everyone else because I had all the data.
And that's really all we're asking for here tobegin with.
And the legislation that you're, you know,working to get brought forth in in the house
and senate is to just give us sometransparency.
(22:37):
Tell us what things actually cost.
Show us the data and let the market decide theprice, not a few people behind locked doors
with locked file cabinets and just saying,well, no.
This is what it's gonna cost, and it depends onwho you're insured with, whether you get the
care that you need.
And, you know, no more surprise bills.
(22:58):
You you go and and you'd can't get a straightanswer out of anyone, and then you're saddled
with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debtthat you will spend years or
The rest of your life.
Just go ahead and say the rest of your life.
The rest of your life.
Right?
That that is the point is to keep these thesefree people in debt, which makes us all slaves.
(23:21):
It makes us tax slaves and debt slaves.
And I think as more people wake up to that factthat we're already living in this crazy caste
system that is set up around us already, butyet we speak about how free we are in this
country, and we have no idea what real freedomactually is.
(23:42):
You know, one of the problems that we had inthe twentieth century, one that I think you and
I were both born in sadly, Bob, is now thatI've really studied the history and stuff like
that, it was sort of at least in the after thethe first third, with the New Deal
particularly, we basically didn't realize, butwe were basically going back into neo
feudalism.
Mean, when you think about much of how societyhas really basically gone since then, it's
(24:04):
really neo feudalism.
It's really one of the great errors of thetwentieth century.
In the twenty first century, we really shouldbe getting back to actual freedom and actual
liberty, and that means really in all spheres.
In the economic sphere, we're extremelyconstrained in The United States.
So sadly.
So let's let's just go back to what workedbefore that.
Oh, you're talking some big ideas here, Aaron,and I love it.
(24:27):
I, but it starts with small steps.
It starts with transparency, and that is what,America demanded, when the mandate was
delivered in November with a landslide win forpresident Trump, and we wanna know what's going
on.
And not that we've had a lot of it since, sincehe's taken office, but we need to continue to
(24:50):
demand it at every single level.
And it sounds like with what we're doing andbecause we have a blueprint for this from 20
other states, we know that it's not justpossible, but that it actually works to bring
the cost of health care down.
And I think that's something that every SouthDakotan and every US, you know, every person
(25:11):
living in The United States, could be thrilledabout.
I mean, think about it.
Think about how much, at least since in mymemory, every every, presidential election
pretty much since '92, health care has been oneof the top five.
And what sadly, again, with the twentiethcentury mindset being so dumb, it was always
double and triple down on all the stuff thatmade it horrible from you know?
(25:34):
But finally, now with the Internet age thatwe've had for about thirty years or so, people
are starting like, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
The real problem is we don't have prices.
The real problem is the consumer's out of it.
The real problem is we don't have transparency.
If we have that, you know, passing a law toestablish a market is different from another
subsidy or another kickback or another anotherrestriction on info.
(25:56):
You know?
So that so we're we're doing somethingdifferent here in the state of South Dakota,
and hopefully, nationwide, and just saying, youknow, most of this stuff is gonna get fixed.
And so we don't, like, have to keep discussingit forever and ever.
Right?
If we just have a free market, it it it justtakes care of so many things.
Awesome, Aaron.
Well, we're gonna be following closely.
(26:17):
The door is open anytime you need to come backand give us some updates on all of this.
I am definitely going to have representativeAlward, you said, is how you say his name?
Yep.
Yep.
We're gonna definitely get him on the show aswell to talk even more about this and maybe a
little bit more about the legislative side andwhat we can do as as voters to, enact some
(26:38):
change and to really put some pressure on our,representatives that are in peers.
So thank you so much for taking some time forme today, and thank you for being part of the
scene.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it so much.
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