September 20, 2025 • 36 mins
Part 2: The crossover between aviation and ski patrol safety principles reveals fascinating parallels. Both fields require clear communication during high-stress situations where emotions run high but must be controlled. Perhaps most powerful is Carl's philosophy of continuous mentorship where knowledge flows bidirectionally rather than just from senior to junior members.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Murphy (00:00):
So, shifting thought and focus here for a second.
So one of the other things thatyou have brought to the
mountain which I do see somechanges, although it is
glacially slow is the concept ofthe green, orange or green,
yellow, red.
How are you feeling today?
Jodie (00:21):
Stress continuum colors.
Murphy (00:24):
What's that yeah?
Jodie (00:24):
the Stress continuum colors.
That's the Stress continuumcolors.
Murphy (00:27):
So in the stress continuum, how is that being
received?
You know I've talked to somepeople who you know are a bit
old fashioned.
Let's just say I wouldn't talkabout anything.
I don't want to talk, right.
Are we getting some tractionwith that?
Is it helping?
Carl Peecher (00:52):
I know I wind up, especially when I like talk to
Jody.
I'm a solid yellow.
Today right, it's going orangeinto red gave the same Saturday
morning brief and I actuallywent to three weekends in a row
specifically to give this briefthat I talked about.
And I covered this issuebecause what I found out was
people were misunderstandingwhat the intent of the stress
(01:12):
continuum is, because I wasblurring it with the operational
stress and the personal stressand I had blurred those two
things and I gave quite adissertation on that.
It's actually one of the videosI have posted.
I believe I recorded the wholething for separate, but there
was a misunderstanding from,let's just say, some of the
(01:36):
older generation in particularthat the stress continuum was
talking about what is personallygoing on with me.
Am I morally, physically hurt?
It is not about that, althoughthat is a stressor and that is a
stressor that could lead to anoperational stress.
That is concerning.
So we've had that conversationand several of those very
(01:57):
staunch patrollers that weretelling me I'm not gonna talk
about it, knock about mypersonal stuff with anybody
these young kids that areleading that program came to me
afterwards like, oh, that'sdifferent, thank you.
Now I understand, and so thereis a change.
Whether you're ready, reacting,injured or critical, you know
there is an understanding of, asyou're moving through that
stress continuum, how it appliesto us, and that you can tell
(02:22):
somebody.
I am currently injured, I'm inthe yellow right and that would
do is an operational change tosupport the person who's in the
yellow.
So I might change a differentpath.
I might choose to have a belayon the sled instead of just
taking it down this hill.
If I have an injured partnerright Because they're telling me
that I don't, in theoperational sense, I don't care
(02:42):
why they're injured, I carrythat they're injured Right, and
so that is the was the bigcommunication breakdown and I
own all of that is when I firstportrayed it.
I just blurred those two thingstogether and I talked about are
you injured?
Make sure you tell yourpartners and then, of course,
your partner is going to helpyou.
And that blurring of thepersonal stress that we're going
(03:04):
to solve over a beer down atthe elk is different than the
operational stress on the hilland how we're going to
operationalize it on the hill isone of the things that what I
(03:31):
feel has been missing the mostis how we explain.
Jodie (03:32):
It can be as individualistic as from A to Z,
so that people are understandingand where, initially, what we
were seeing is you either hadpeople that felt it was only one
camp, only the other camp, andyou can only talk about this or
that.
So when I can appreciate whenyou try to show the overall and
(03:57):
where you use the word blur buthow each can affect, but you
don't have to go, like you said,deep in the weeds.
You just need to have thatcommon terminology to say that
we can address of versus.
I'm a little off today.
Like you said, I don't need thedetails.
(04:19):
I need to know how effective andwhere the best spot for all of
us to work at and be able tosupport each other where before
it was.
This is only a cisd situationon the hill and nothing else
affects our lives and it's like.
No, that's not true either andit is hard to figure out how to
(04:42):
express this, and where I'vebeen is you have to keep
morphing it and keep adjustingit so that everyone is
understanding it, but you goback to some common terminology
or uses.
I mean, that's how we startedoff with the stop sign, the stop
light red, yellow green, justto get everyone.
What are we sort of talkingabout?
(05:04):
Yellow green, just to geteveryone?
What?
What are we sort of talkingabout?
And where some talk aboutinjured versus ready, I've seen
the different.
You know colors, up to fivecolors.
It doesn't matter which one youtake.
You just you want everybody tobe understanding the basics and
how to move from there.
But that's, that's aninteresting point.
I like, like how you explainedthat to share.
Carl Peecher (05:26):
Yeah, it's really critical to follow on a little
bit.
The history of this and this ispurposely directed at our more
elder that are less likely toaccept this concept this came
from the Marine Corps in Vietnamand even before that, even
before, but the stress on thebattlefield was noticed.
(05:47):
But the Marine Corps actuallystarted instituting this concept
within their lance corporalsand their young.
Because if you were on patrolwith your three, you know your
patrol leader and you got yourthree others with you and you're
out there.
If you don't understand thatevery person is where they are
currently, you all won't make itback.
So you have to work togetherand have to know it.
So if, arguably, one of the mostbullheaded masculine groups at
(06:12):
that time could figure out howto work through this, you know
and the value of it.
It wasn't again that you know.
My Susie back home just wroteme a Dear John letter.
That's great.
Okay, you're injured, so let'sbe more cautious.
We're going to go over that.
We're going to change ourrouting and change where you're
going to be in the lead, ormaybe you're going to stay home
and we're going to take Johnnywith us instead, right?
(06:32):
So just, those changes happenand it is entailing and I was
raised in that world after italready started being
instituting, but still beingevolved.
Jodie (06:41):
It's communication, like you said, it doesn't have to be
huge communication in depth,it's just you have a same way.
And don't mind me, carl, I'mjust not used to being called
ma'am, but I know that you'remilitary.
Carl Peecher (06:57):
I'll stop it then, if that really bothers you.
Jodie (07:00):
No, no, you're fine, I do it at work and they just look
at me and I'm like it's how myparents raised me.
So I wasn't in the military.
You're fine, I do it at workand they just look at me and I'm
like it's how my parents raisedme.
So I wasn't in the military,but I understand.
Carl Peecher (07:08):
Good.
Murphy (07:11):
So I got another question for you.
Okay, so here we go.
You know we've talked about howyou've brought a lot of the
airline procedures and policiesand checklists and things to the
patrol.
Have you gone the other way andtaken anything that you've
learned at the patrol into thepilot world?
Carl Peecher (07:29):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I have I can't really put aspecific on it but I've
absolutely take things I'velearned from patrollers and
brought it over the crisismanagement and response.
When I've watched that modelingbehavior by someone who is very
experienced and veryknowledgeable and very
comfortable, I've definitelybrought that back.
(07:51):
The idea to be able to find andcarmentalize which is something
we all do but be able to takethis incredibly stressful moment
and not let the stress of theinjured person affect your
stress level and not let thestress of the injured person
affect your stress level.
That was something I broughtwith me back.
Right, you know so, because andI realized that and I started
noticing it in some of my crewswhen I put them in the simulator
(08:13):
, I put them in incrediblycomplex situations and I say I,
all of us instructors do, wepurposely build the training so
that you stress you beyond yourlevel and you can see one person
get hyper, hyper, hyperstressed and when that one
person's stressed, when you seethe other partner, the captain
or the first officer get pulledinto that stress pit of despair
(08:35):
with them, that is a problem,nobody's there.
So I've mentored many timeswhere, like you can't let the
injured person in that case,your partner, who is injured and
scared about the event they'regoing through, drag you down too
.
You have to take a step back,look at it and rise above it.
So that is something I'vedistinctly learned from this.
(08:55):
Where you know, being on sceneis something incredibly
stressful and you see one persondiving off and getting overly
worried about the personscreaming rather than what is
the right step next, and theperson's going to scream because
they're hurt badly but beingable to move on.
I was thinking of my son had adislocated shoulder and it was a
(09:17):
horrible dislocation.
This was one of the four familymembers, me being two of them
that helped me join patrol.
It was on Sluice Way, upperSluice Way, and he was partway
down.
I had hiked back up the hill toget to him as the patrollers
got to him to care for him andthe doctor showed up.
And the doctor had such acalming, reassuring way.
He relocated, reduced theshoulder, on the scene, but of
(09:41):
course, doug was screaming inpain, and it's rightfully so,
but watching that doctor manageit in a crisis manner of just
what is right, okay, this iswhat we're going to do, this is
the next step, and we were ableto talk him through and then did
the motion and it went back inand there was an immediate
release of everybody involved.
Murphy (10:20):
So, yeah, that is a distinct skill that I, that your
patient is feeling and beingable to still function and
operate, and make sure you candeliver.
You know, whatever care you'vegot to deliver to get them down
the mountain and yeah, I know ithurts and you're being tough,
but I got to do what I got to doto get you out of here, and
that's one of the things I'velearned on the hill is I address
(10:41):
the patient when they'rescreaming.
Carl Peecher (10:43):
I understand this hurts Absolutely and I'm going
to come back to it, we're goingto work on it, we're going to
get you better, we're going toget you safe, but I have to do
these things in order to make ithappen effectively.
And that usually is a calmingevent for the guest as well, the
injured guest, because justthem understanding that you
recognize and acknowledge theirpain and suffering and what
they're going when you're movingon to do the other task.
(11:05):
You have to do these othertasks.
I will come back to this, Iwill get this, we will come
after it, but we have to makethis scenario be right for you.
Jodie (11:14):
As the saying goes, their emergency is not your emergency
.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah, yeah.
Carl Peecher (11:21):
That's the saying they taught us.
Justin taught us that in OECand moved us along.
I'm sure it's been around for along time, definitely in the
medical, that's for sure, butit's anywhere.
Jodie (11:33):
It's anywhere where you have to be.
Whether you're a pilot, whetheryou are a ski patroller, it
doesn't matter.
But if you've got to keep yourhead in the game, then you got
to remember this is not youremergency and, just like you
said, you have to prioritize anddo what you've got to do.
And they're focused on onething and one thing only.
So that's an awesome.
Carl Peecher (11:54):
Early last year I introduced box breathing to the
patrol.
I don't know if I introduced it, but I brought it up.
How about that?
It may have already beenintroduced, but I brought it up
as a formal moment to talk about, where you breathe in for four
seconds, hold for four seconds,breathe out for four seconds,
hold for four seconds, and thatbox breathing forces your body
to control your emotions and itbrings everything down and often
(12:17):
you know when you have somebodyinjured just making them go
through that cycle with you.
Now you can find the actualinjury as opposed to the
distracting injury.
You can get them to where youcan solve the problem better,
because the thing that's big andugly might not be the real
underlying cause.
Jodie (12:33):
Absolutely.
And see, had you come to theconvention, some of those were
passed out.
Oh good, there we go.
And in general, so yeah, no,it's, and this is good.
I mean it's the more that wetalk about different options,
what works for one person, morphit and do it a little bit this
way, and absolutely, absolutely.
Murphy (12:56):
So what are we going to look forward to this year?
On the patrol, what are youputting together, bringing to
the patrol for safety andwellness?
Carl Peecher (13:03):
Yeah, so it's a continuing evolution.
I wrote this a couple of yearsago.
There's a document aboutcontinuous mentorship and I've
been trying to touch on thatslowly over time and nudge
towards it, because what I'mreally hoping to develop is a
self-healing team that canidentify, discover and improve
(13:24):
as they move along, and thatself-healing team requires those
who do know and are experiencedto edge, guide and enable and
help the people learn and bebetter.
It's not good enough to have acouple of strong people on
patrol.
We need to have every member ofthe patrol be strong, Everyone
be healthy and going.
(13:44):
So you know, this season isgoing to be a continuing on that
topic of how do we help mentorthe future and how do we guide
them along to get them to dobetter.
Jodie (13:53):
Absolutely.
Carl Peecher (13:56):
Yeah, and you know .
So the question I asked of whenwe do the psychological first
aid, the thing I keep suggestingto people is, you know, think
about it five things Am Imentally prepared?
Am I physically prepared?
Do I understand my task, Do Iknow where I'm going and am I
proficient to do the task?
And if any of those fivequestions are not a yes,
(14:17):
absolutely raise your hand andask for help and maybe take
somebody else with you.
It doesn't mean you're takenoff the task and in fact, a good
leader, a good patroller, willpurposely not take that person
off the task simply because theyasked a question they didn't
know.
They would purposely send themon that task and maybe augment
it with somebody else who ishelpful to make sure they go
(14:39):
well, because that is buildingthe future.
We have to view it as we needto get people beyond their
comfort zone and into thestretch of energy to get better.
Jodie (14:51):
I feel like I should be standing up and cheerleading
over here.
I'm like, oh, it's too bad thisis not video, because I'd just
be going yes, yes, yes, yes.
Murphy (15:03):
So, carl, this is going to be a two-part question, right
?
So where do you see the patrolevolving in?
The next?
You know?
Get to, you know, disseminatethis more broadly, right, and
(15:31):
get this out to other patrols Iwould really.
Carl Peecher (15:35):
You know, again, it's not about who, it's about
what.
Let's get it done.
I would love it immensely ifmore people and I know there are
more people that understandthese topics very well.
When I talk to some of thefirefighters on the team, they
hear the same thing.
Paul Sowers he's been a goodmentor for me as I've gone to
him and talked to him about someof these problems.
So the knowledge is out there.
(15:56):
It's just getting peoplewilling to get up and start
talking about it.
There's another podcast I gotput on too, called the Emergency
Mind podcast.
Emergency Mind put on too,called the Emergency Mind
podcast, emergency Mind.
It talks about some really deeptopics that are really good
about understanding how a personaddresses conflict and a
problem and where they go withit, and it's been.
(16:17):
I pulled a lot of details outof that to dovetail something
together that is succinct andable to be digested by people
quickly.
Jodie (16:26):
Absolutely.
Carl Peecher (16:27):
You know where I see this going is.
I just hope more people willsee it at other patrols and go
with it.
I don't personally want to, youknow, go revolutionize the
world.
That's not the goal.
What I'm hoping is everybodysees the value in it and moves
towards better.
You know, hit the, hit the TedLasso, I believe, symbol up on
the wall and believe that we cando better and try.
(16:50):
And that's partly why I madethem as video messages and I put
it out there and I'm hopingthey get shared around and
pushed around.
Not because I want the creditis because I want the topics out
there and I'm hoping somebodygets inspiration from it and
realizes they can take this andmake something better.
Jodie (17:09):
Well, carl, I can guarantee you we will get that
video out there, because notonly with being the current but
outgoing advisor for this withbuilding of the web, we are
going to add that onto that.
So we definitely want the link.
So that, because this is alsoabout the whole sharing I was
going to bring this up earlier.
(17:29):
But it is realizing there's 11divisions in the National Ski
Patrol and it is fascinating themore that I get to talk with
other divisions and hearingeither things that they are
doing and it's like wow, but onthe same token, things that
(17:50):
they're not even aware thatother divisions are doing, and
it's like at times I feel likewe started officially back in
1938, but it almost seems likeour communication at times is
still back in that era.
Murphy (18:05):
In 1938.
Jodie (18:07):
And we have to rely on a snail mail to get delivered and
or print it in the weeklynewspaper and then get
disseminated.
Where we try to do theseworkshops, we try to get stuff
on the internet.
But I can guarantee you and forall the listeners we will get
all of these up there and on thesafety wellness page to be
(18:29):
shared, as long as Carl gives uspermission, absolutely.
Carl Peecher (18:32):
I'll take them.
They're on my teams undersafety.
Murph knows exactly where theyare.
He built it for me and Irecorded most of the weekends I
did.
And there were the Thursdaynight meetings where I would
talk for four or five minutesand try to give scenarios or try
to talk about a concept, andsome of them are pretty heady.
So you get pretty esotericlevels.
But if you listen into it Ithink there'll be some value
(18:54):
gained.
Jodie (18:54):
Right, but I mean it's just like you guys talked
earlier in this about differentthings that you were doing.
But it's interesting because ifthe more that we can get the
divisions talking, you wouldrealize that some have adopted
similar and I'm going to use theexample is NSAA, so the
(19:15):
National Ski Areas Associationhas in the fall the fall
education seminar, which is morefor the risk management etc.
So, Carl, and anybody that's Ithink it's October, something
that's going to be at Hood River, but that was one thing that
they brought up last year wasabout checklists and commenting
on a couple of patrols and Ican't remember what division it
(19:38):
was at the time that they saidthat they were.
So because they have attorneysthere, they have the life you
know the insurance and stuff.
People there and they were likethis is golden because it does
show, it has the checklist, itshows that they were checking of
this and this and this forsafety and different things and
I just we have to do morecommunication and sharing across
(20:00):
from place to place.
Cause Murph, we've talked Imean like talking with Gary
Burke and and other people ofjust hearing of how complicated
it was to try to communicatebefore the Internet.
Carl Peecher (20:14):
Obviously, you just hit on a really interesting
point because two years ago onthe Hill meeting I gave two big
talks to the whole patrol andthere was a legal representation
there for the hill and we were.
He had got up and he gave hisspeech and he talked about it
and it almost sounded likechecklists were not a good thing
(20:36):
from his point of view.
And I dug into it a little bitlike, oh wait a minute, a
well-executed and followedchecklist, is that a value?
He said absolutely.
So he got miscommunicatedbecause he said checklist can be
a legal hazard because thatwould show that you didn't
follow the checklist.
And my comeback to it is well,that's not necessarily true.
(20:59):
If you don't follow a checklistthat is defined in what you're
supposed to do, sure then thatis a personal liability.
But that is the whole reason wehave and follow procedures and
checklists is, if we have aprocedure and checklist that we
follow, we are one in complianceand one we're legally safe.
And at that point it comes to abigger picture.
If a problem occurs now througha safety management system,
(21:23):
right, we can look at that errorthat occurred and say, ah, we
need to change the procedure tomake it better, to mitigate that
problem.
But if we just don't makeprocedures because we're scared
that it's going to be a riskthat people won't follow them,
well then every single event isthis new experiment and we're
just trying it on for size andthat doesn't work right.
(21:45):
So you know, and he clarifiedthat no, no, no, well, no, no,
well-written and well-executedand followed procedure is
amazing, because then they cango and say yes, they check that
rope line because it's part oftheir daily procedure and they
do that every day.
Jodie (21:58):
So that rope line, but that's just it.
I mean, look at the people that, even in the medical field that
work.
If they're five days a week orthree 12-hour shifts a week,
whatever, it doesn't matter.
The fire service it's 24-hourshift, et cetera.
You haven't had a specific call, you haven't had a specific
thing.
You can't say that you're goingto be able to, just because you
(22:19):
know this is your full-timework, you're going to be able to
pull that out of your head andby having that checklist of
saying, well, I haven't donethis particular thing in a while
, or I haven't been up for acouple of weeks, or there's so
many variances.
That's where it gets you backto.
Oh, it's a good reminder, justlike we have OEC once a year.
(22:39):
But wow, when you can have aarea and people join in of every
month you talk about somethingas a good review and it's that
constant reviewing.
That's what gets it morecemented.
But I mean medical etc.
Carl Peecher (22:54):
But yeah, definitely and that's currency
versus proficiency.
You had asked earlier on aboutif I had seen changes and you
just spurred my mind on that.
One of the huge changes I'mnoticing is the dispatchers down
at Mountain Base.
When a patroller calls in witha problem, and if something
isn't asked for, that is likelyclearly that dispatcher down in
(23:18):
the base area is thinkingthrough the problem, where they
are and what's going on, andwe'll ask questions like have
you thought about transportationyet?
And that will often spur theon-scene patroller like oh yeah,
we need to actually think abouthow we're going to get this
person off the hill, and that iscrew resource management.
The person doesn't have to bethere on scene to be part of the
(23:41):
resources available.
The radio is a stretch tostretch our resources out, and
in the base we often havedoctors, we have amazing
technicians, we have people thatcan help and they can provide
assistance verbally to guide theperson that's on the scene
fighting the problem Right,which you know comes down to
communication is key, right?
(24:02):
So, just like you were saying,communication is all of it.
Murphy (24:06):
Oh yeah, all right.
Well, we're kind of running outof time, we're past our hour
again, but let me, we're goingto.
We're going to finish this withtwo questions.
Right One, if you, if I gaveyou a magic wand and you could
change anything about the patrol, yeah, what would it be Active
membership, membership, activementorship.
Carl Peecher (24:25):
It would be a proactive process by everybody
involved to seek opportunitiesto share your knowledge.
So it's not a change of what wedo on the hill.
I'm not going to say, hey, theway we run sleds down the hill
is not ideal.
We do it differently than manyothers.
But what I will say is, let'suse this opportunity that if I'm
(24:48):
going out to go to the boundaryline in Northway, I'm going to
look in the room and say, do Ihave any new patrollers standing
around here that probablyhaven't done this yet or haven't
experienced it yet?
And then I'm going to look atit and say, hey, would you like
to come along with me andexperience this?
And I've done that.
And I find often that that ispositively received and like, oh
(25:10):
yes, thank you, I'd love to gosee it.
So that active mentorship ofgetting things you know, because
a good patroller is proactive,they seek information and they
focus on what's right, not who'sright, and so guiding them.
Jodie (25:25):
And and, like you said, the new people are where we can
probably hit the ongoing andfuture.
But it's also like youmentioned earlier.
It doesn't matter whetheryou've been on a patrol for 10
years.
It doesn't matter the length oftime.
Like you said before, if youhaven't been to this area in a
while, let's all review and it'show you're how you're
(25:46):
presenting it is is huge on thatand I just wow and so, and
that's just it.
Carl Peecher (25:52):
so I'll pull into my airline world again.
I will have a 65 year oldairline captain who has been a
captain for 30 years.
He knows this jet inside andout and he's going to work with
a 23 year old, and that 23-oldmay be more proficient and
current with the currentprocedures, policies,
regulations, or just may seesomething that that other fella
(26:15):
doesn't see.
And we have empowered it andthis is a, you know, it's been a
pretty aggressive empowermentto make sure that 23-year-old
can speak up and stop theoperation if they see something
wrong, to make sure that23-year-old can speak up and
stop the operation if they seesomething wrong.
And so that is where we comefrom.
This is, how do we convincepeople that it's okay to be the
(26:35):
more experienced controller butmaybe not be the one who is the
profair of knowledge?
Mentorship goes both ways.
It's not just older to younger.
Mentorship goes from knowledgeto lack of knowledge.
It goes across.
And so that awareness of, likeyou know, I haven't done
belaying for a while.
Huh, so who knows how to belay?
(26:56):
And it might be the youngestperson who happens to be a rock
climber that's really, reallyvetted in belaying, and I'll
come out and I'll show you.
You know that knowledge needsto go both ways, and we need to
all accept that knowledge can goboth ways.
Just because I'm older or beenon patrol longer or been doing
my job longer doesn't mean Ihave all knowledge and all
wisdom.
Murphy (27:17):
That's a great philosophy, absolutely All right
, jodi, this is Jodi's question.
She loves it.
Jodie (27:23):
I do, but we have one more you put in there.
What advice would you givesomeone considering joining but
worried about the timecommitment?
Oh yeah, it was a good one.
I wanted with your, as you said, five years so you can relate.
What would you say?
Carl Peecher (27:41):
Oh yeah, and so from actually second year I was
already starting to go reach outto the new patrollers.
I went to a couple of the OECclasses to talk to them about
what they're getting into,because that was not conveyed to
me when I started up and I'mnot to say this is negative, but
the level of commitment for thefirst year, and probably two
years, was not really conveyedof how steep the learning curve
(28:03):
was going to be, and so it wasmy belief that we needed to let
people know how hard this isgoing to be and what you're
going to learn and your brain isgoing to grow and you're going
to stretch and you'll be pushedto your boundaries continuously.
It will get better and you'llget to a more steady slope and
an increasement.
But yeah, for this year or twoit's going to be every day that
(28:25):
you're up there.
You need to be working hard.
You probably are not going tofind a time where you're just
sitting around waiting, and ifyou're not into that, you need
to change your perspective andmaybe this isn't the thing for
you, and that's okay, it's not anegative.
It's just, you'll be aware,because we need people that are
involved and eager and proactive, and that proactiveness of
(28:49):
learning, proactiveness of doing, looking for the task that's
not done that's what it's goingto be all about, and so if
you're waiting for knowledge tocome to you, you've already
failed.
You need to be seeking it andgrowing from it.
Jodie (28:59):
Oh, I like that statement right there.
Murphy (29:02):
We're going to have to just put a soundbite to that one
.
But Jody is glowing right now.
You can't see her.
But Jodi is glowing right now.
Jodie (29:07):
Oh, you see Well and we usually end with this one
question.
However, we have been talkingabout it practically throughout
this whole thing, but it wasbasically, I mean, the NSP creed
from 1938, service and safety,and so, granted, from some
people we've asked what they'veseen over the years.
(29:30):
But have you thought about whenyou first, I guess you know,
and the other thing is, a lot oftimes people, when you're first
new, you don't even realizethere's this huge umbrella and
there's NSB and there's all that.
You're just focused on yourlocal patrol.
But in your five years have youseen anything that has struck
you in either way or better toimprove, or any thoughts to that
(29:55):
?
I mean, we've talked a lotabout safety etc.
Carl Peecher (29:58):
But yeah, yeah, with service and safety.
Right, with safety comesservice and with service becomes
an opportunity, and it's anopportunity for people to get
out and do something.
So our guests that come to thehill want to have an outdoor
adventurous experience, to beable to do it, and they may not
(30:19):
have the knowledge or skills toknow where is dangerous.
And so you know our educationprocess on the hill of talking
to people and telling them thereason we put that rope out
there is not because we want toprotect that little rope line or
that little run for us, thepatrol.
No, we're protecting becausethere's a hazard that you don't
see.
So with a service and safety isour concept is we are
(30:41):
protecting and building a safetybubble around our guests so
they can operationalize and goout and do things that are
adventurous and are risky, right?
So this was a good question.
I introduced risk management andtalked about safety and
managing risk.
And what do you do when you seea risk?
And you identify it, youcontrol it and you try to
(31:02):
mitigate it, but we cannot makeall risks go away.
Risk is inherent to our life.
Even if you laid in bed all daylong, there is still a risk
that a tree could fall on yourhouse.
There's always risk involved,but how do you manage it?
And well-managed risk isexperience, and that is trying
something and it's an adventure.
So, yeah, that's where in theservice world we're going out to
(31:25):
build that environment wherepeople can experience something
beyond what they might normallybe able to do, and do it safely.
And hopefully we can make aneducation piece to that as well
as we go.
And that's one thing that Brent, our patrol director, has
really inspired is haveconversations with our guests,
and I love that.
Stop and talk to them and justtalk to them about what's going
(31:46):
on, because that education ofour community, you know.
So when I'm riding up achairlift, I'm often talking to
the people on the chairliftabout what's going on.
Where's going to be good, whyis it going to be good, why is
that area bad?
Oh, and then usually an ahamoment occurs in that process.
Jodie (32:01):
Oh boy, I could not have asked you to say that any better
.
Seriously the whole thing abouttalking to the public and I
mean I feel that that has gottensegued out and it's just sort
of this pigeonhole thing and itjust needs to be so much more
(32:22):
coming back of just having agood conversation, which it
brings good wellness to thepublic.
It brings good wellness to thepatrollers too.
Carl Peecher (32:29):
Yeah, I've done a couple of years.
I go out and stay with a friendin Colorado and we've skied a
bunch of high name resorts inColorado and I've noticed a
complete difference in the waythey interact and generally what
I noticed is the patrollers arenot seen on the hill, they're
hiding, they're not out engaging.
(32:50):
They come to the problem.
They'll run a sled like a snowmachine to bring the sled to
patients and pull the patientaway.
Ski patrol, where we go outthere and we actually see people
and are making a visibility ofourselves.
And I have been dumbfounded bysome of the big mountains where
(33:12):
I'm looking around and I go thewhole day and not see a single
red jacket.
And that's just not in myparadigm.
You know, if you're in a bigcity and you see a few police
officers walking around, thatshould be a good thing.
That's a sign there's peoplethere.
If you see medical, you seepeople.
(33:32):
That's a good thing.
There's a service industry thatis supporting us.
When you don't see us out there, I think that diminishes the
comfort level of our guestsbecause they don't know is
anybody stopping this stuff?
That's crazy.
And then we don't see themisbehavior If we're only called
out when it's reported thatthere's a jump being a kicker
been put in on downhill.
Well, okay, then we come outand we break it down.
Well, meanwhile that kicker hadbeen there for some length of
time and stuff had been going onthat was inappropriate
(33:56):
absolutely yeah absolutely yeah,it's good, carl.
Murphy (34:00):
Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your
story.
It's always a joy hearingfirsthand what it means to
dedicate your time and heart tothe ski patrol, the storms,
sunrise, sunsets and all theadventures that happen in
between.
It's a powerful reminder ofthose people who keep us safe on
the mountain.
So, shifting thought and focus here for a second.
So one of the other things thatyou have brought to the
mountain which I do see somechanges, although it is
glacially slow is the concept ofthe green, orange or green,
yellow, red.
How are you feeling today?
Jodie (00:21):
Stress continuum colors.
Murphy (00:24):
What's that yeah?
Jodie (00:24):
the Stress continuum colors.
That's the Stress continuumcolors.
Murphy (00:27):
So in the stress continuum, how is that being
received?
You know I've talked to somepeople who you know are a bit
old fashioned.
Let's just say I wouldn't talkabout anything.
I don't want to talk, right.
Are we getting some tractionwith that?
Is it helping?
Carl Peecher (00:52):
I know I wind up, especially when I like talk to
Jody.
I'm a solid yellow.
Today right, it's going orangeinto red gave the same Saturday
morning brief and I actuallywent to three weekends in a row
specifically to give this briefthat I talked about.
And I covered this issuebecause what I found out was
people were misunderstandingwhat the intent of the stress
(01:12):
continuum is, because I wasblurring it with the operational
stress and the personal stressand I had blurred those two
things and I gave quite adissertation on that.
It's actually one of the videosI have posted.
I believe I recorded the wholething for separate, but there
was a misunderstanding from,let's just say, some of the
(01:36):
older generation in particularthat the stress continuum was
talking about what is personallygoing on with me.
Am I morally, physically hurt?
It is not about that, althoughthat is a stressor and that is a
stressor that could lead to anoperational stress.
That is concerning.
So we've had that conversationand several of those very
(01:57):
staunch patrollers that weretelling me I'm not gonna talk
about it, knock about mypersonal stuff with anybody
these young kids that areleading that program came to me
afterwards like, oh, that'sdifferent, thank you.
Now I understand, and so thereis a change.
Whether you're ready, reacting,injured or critical, you know
there is an understanding of, asyou're moving through that
stress continuum, how it appliesto us, and that you can tell
(02:22):
somebody.
I am currently injured, I'm inthe yellow right and that would
do is an operational change tosupport the person who's in the
yellow.
So I might change a differentpath.
I might choose to have a belayon the sled instead of just
taking it down this hill.
If I have an injured partnerright Because they're telling me
that I don't, in theoperational sense, I don't care
(02:42):
why they're injured, I carrythat they're injured Right, and
so that is the was the bigcommunication breakdown and I
own all of that is when I firstportrayed it.
I just blurred those two thingstogether and I talked about are
you injured?
Make sure you tell yourpartners and then, of course,
your partner is going to helpyou.
And that blurring of thepersonal stress that we're going
(03:04):
to solve over a beer down atthe elk is different than the
operational stress on the hilland how we're going to
operationalize it on the hill isone of the things that what I
(03:31):
feel has been missing the mostis how we explain.
Jodie (03:32):
It can be as individualistic as from A to Z,
so that people are understandingand where, initially, what we
were seeing is you either hadpeople that felt it was only one
camp, only the other camp, andyou can only talk about this or
that.
So when I can appreciate whenyou try to show the overall and
(03:57):
where you use the word blur buthow each can affect, but you
don't have to go, like you said,deep in the weeds.
You just need to have thatcommon terminology to say that
we can address of versus.
I'm a little off today.
Like you said, I don't need thedetails.
(04:19):
I need to know how effective andwhere the best spot for all of
us to work at and be able tosupport each other where before
it was.
This is only a cisd situationon the hill and nothing else
affects our lives and it's like.
No, that's not true either andit is hard to figure out how to
(04:42):
express this, and where I'vebeen is you have to keep
morphing it and keep adjustingit so that everyone is
understanding it, but you goback to some common terminology
or uses.
I mean, that's how we startedoff with the stop sign, the stop
light red, yellow green, justto get everyone.
What are we sort of talkingabout?
(05:04):
Yellow green, just to geteveryone?
What?
What are we sort of talkingabout?
And where some talk aboutinjured versus ready, I've seen
the different.
You know colors, up to fivecolors.
It doesn't matter which one youtake.
You just you want everybody tobe understanding the basics and
how to move from there.
But that's, that's aninteresting point.
I like, like how you explainedthat to share.
Carl Peecher (05:26):
Yeah, it's really critical to follow on a little
bit.
The history of this and this ispurposely directed at our more
elder that are less likely toaccept this concept this came
from the Marine Corps in Vietnamand even before that, even
before, but the stress on thebattlefield was noticed.
(05:47):
But the Marine Corps actuallystarted instituting this concept
within their lance corporalsand their young.
Because if you were on patrolwith your three, you know your
patrol leader and you got yourthree others with you and you're
out there.
If you don't understand thatevery person is where they are
currently, you all won't make itback.
So you have to work togetherand have to know it.
So if, arguably, one of the mostbullheaded masculine groups at
(06:12):
that time could figure out howto work through this, you know
and the value of it.
It wasn't again that you know.
My Susie back home just wroteme a Dear John letter.
That's great.
Okay, you're injured, so let'sbe more cautious.
We're going to go over that.
We're going to change ourrouting and change where you're
going to be in the lead, ormaybe you're going to stay home
and we're going to take Johnnywith us instead, right?
(06:32):
So just, those changes happenand it is entailing and I was
raised in that world after italready started being
instituting, but still beingevolved.
Jodie (06:41):
It's communication, like you said, it doesn't have to be
huge communication in depth,it's just you have a same way.
And don't mind me, carl, I'mjust not used to being called
ma'am, but I know that you'remilitary.
Carl Peecher (06:57):
I'll stop it then, if that really bothers you.
Jodie (07:00):
No, no, you're fine, I do it at work and they just look
at me and I'm like it's how myparents raised me.
So I wasn't in the military.
You're fine, I do it at workand they just look at me and I'm
like it's how my parents raisedme.
So I wasn't in the military,but I understand.
Carl Peecher (07:08):
Good.
Murphy (07:11):
So I got another question for you.
Okay, so here we go.
You know we've talked about howyou've brought a lot of the
airline procedures and policiesand checklists and things to the
patrol.
Have you gone the other way andtaken anything that you've
learned at the patrol into thepilot world?
Carl Peecher (07:29):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I have I can't really put aspecific on it but I've
absolutely take things I'velearned from patrollers and
brought it over the crisismanagement and response.
When I've watched that modelingbehavior by someone who is very
experienced and veryknowledgeable and very
comfortable, I've definitelybrought that back.
(07:51):
The idea to be able to find andcarmentalize which is something
we all do but be able to takethis incredibly stressful moment
and not let the stress of theinjured person affect your
stress level and not let thestress of the injured person
affect your stress level.
That was something I broughtwith me back.
Right, you know so, because andI realized that and I started
noticing it in some of my crewswhen I put them in the simulator
(08:13):
, I put them in incrediblycomplex situations and I say I,
all of us instructors do, wepurposely build the training so
that you stress you beyond yourlevel and you can see one person
get hyper, hyper, hyperstressed and when that one
person's stressed, when you seethe other partner, the captain
or the first officer get pulledinto that stress pit of despair
(08:35):
with them, that is a problem,nobody's there.
So I've mentored many timeswhere, like you can't let the
injured person in that case,your partner, who is injured and
scared about the event they'regoing through, drag you down too
.
You have to take a step back,look at it and rise above it.
So that is something I'vedistinctly learned from this.
(08:55):
Where you know, being on sceneis something incredibly
stressful and you see one persondiving off and getting overly
worried about the personscreaming rather than what is
the right step next, and theperson's going to scream because
they're hurt badly but beingable to move on.
I was thinking of my son had adislocated shoulder and it was a
(09:17):
horrible dislocation.
This was one of the four familymembers, me being two of them
that helped me join patrol.
It was on Sluice Way, upperSluice Way, and he was partway
down.
I had hiked back up the hill toget to him as the patrollers
got to him to care for him andthe doctor showed up.
And the doctor had such acalming, reassuring way.
He relocated, reduced theshoulder, on the scene, but of
(09:41):
course, doug was screaming inpain, and it's rightfully so,
but watching that doctor manageit in a crisis manner of just
what is right, okay, this iswhat we're going to do, this is
the next step, and we were ableto talk him through and then did
the motion and it went back inand there was an immediate
release of everybody involved.
Murphy (10:20):
So, yeah, that is a distinct skill that I, that your
patient is feeling and beingable to still function and
operate, and make sure you candeliver.
You know, whatever care you'vegot to deliver to get them down
the mountain and yeah, I know ithurts and you're being tough,
but I got to do what I got to doto get you out of here, and
that's one of the things I'velearned on the hill is I address
(10:41):
the patient when they'rescreaming.
Carl Peecher (10:43):
I understand this hurts Absolutely and I'm going
to come back to it, we're goingto work on it, we're going to
get you better, we're going toget you safe, but I have to do
these things in order to make ithappen effectively.
And that usually is a calmingevent for the guest as well, the
injured guest, because justthem understanding that you
recognize and acknowledge theirpain and suffering and what
they're going when you're movingon to do the other task.
(11:05):
You have to do these othertasks.
I will come back to this, Iwill get this, we will come
after it, but we have to makethis scenario be right for you.
Jodie (11:14):
As the saying goes, their emergency is not your emergency
.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah, yeah.
Carl Peecher (11:21):
That's the saying they taught us.
Justin taught us that in OECand moved us along.
I'm sure it's been around for along time, definitely in the
medical, that's for sure, butit's anywhere.
Jodie (11:33):
It's anywhere where you have to be.
Whether you're a pilot, whetheryou are a ski patroller, it
doesn't matter.
But if you've got to keep yourhead in the game, then you got
to remember this is not youremergency and, just like you
said, you have to prioritize anddo what you've got to do.
And they're focused on onething and one thing only.
So that's an awesome.
Carl Peecher (11:54):
Early last year I introduced box breathing to the
patrol.
I don't know if I introduced it, but I brought it up.
How about that?
It may have already beenintroduced, but I brought it up
as a formal moment to talk about, where you breathe in for four
seconds, hold for four seconds,breathe out for four seconds,
hold for four seconds, and thatbox breathing forces your body
to control your emotions and itbrings everything down and often
(12:17):
you know when you have somebodyinjured just making them go
through that cycle with you.
Now you can find the actualinjury as opposed to the
distracting injury.
You can get them to where youcan solve the problem better,
because the thing that's big andugly might not be the real
underlying cause.
Jodie (12:33):
Absolutely.
And see, had you come to theconvention, some of those were
passed out.
Oh good, there we go.
And in general, so yeah, no,it's, and this is good.
I mean it's the more that wetalk about different options,
what works for one person, morphit and do it a little bit this
way, and absolutely, absolutely.
Murphy (12:56):
So what are we going to look forward to this year?
On the patrol, what are youputting together, bringing to
the patrol for safety andwellness?
Carl Peecher (13:03):
Yeah, so it's a continuing evolution.
I wrote this a couple of yearsago.
There's a document aboutcontinuous mentorship and I've
been trying to touch on thatslowly over time and nudge
towards it, because what I'mreally hoping to develop is a
self-healing team that canidentify, discover and improve
(13:24):
as they move along, and thatself-healing team requires those
who do know and are experiencedto edge, guide and enable and
help the people learn and bebetter.
It's not good enough to have acouple of strong people on
patrol.
We need to have every member ofthe patrol be strong, Everyone
be healthy and going.
(13:44):
So you know, this season isgoing to be a continuing on that
topic of how do we help mentorthe future and how do we guide
them along to get them to dobetter.
Jodie (13:53):
Absolutely.
Carl Peecher (13:56):
Yeah, and you know .
So the question I asked of whenwe do the psychological first
aid, the thing I keep suggestingto people is, you know, think
about it five things Am Imentally prepared?
Am I physically prepared?
Do I understand my task, Do Iknow where I'm going and am I
proficient to do the task?
And if any of those fivequestions are not a yes,
(14:17):
absolutely raise your hand andask for help and maybe take
somebody else with you.
It doesn't mean you're takenoff the task and in fact, a good
leader, a good patroller, willpurposely not take that person
off the task simply because theyasked a question they didn't
know.
They would purposely send themon that task and maybe augment
it with somebody else who ishelpful to make sure they go
(14:39):
well, because that is buildingthe future.
We have to view it as we needto get people beyond their
comfort zone and into thestretch of energy to get better.
Jodie (14:51):
I feel like I should be standing up and cheerleading
over here.
I'm like, oh, it's too bad thisis not video, because I'd just
be going yes, yes, yes, yes.
Murphy (15:03):
So, carl, this is going to be a two-part question, right
?
So where do you see the patrolevolving in?
The next?
You know?
Get to, you know, disseminatethis more broadly, right, and
(15:31):
get this out to other patrols Iwould really.
Carl Peecher (15:35):
You know, again, it's not about who, it's about
what.
Let's get it done.
I would love it immensely ifmore people and I know there are
more people that understandthese topics very well.
When I talk to some of thefirefighters on the team, they
hear the same thing.
Paul Sowers he's been a goodmentor for me as I've gone to
him and talked to him about someof these problems.
So the knowledge is out there.
(15:56):
It's just getting peoplewilling to get up and start
talking about it.
There's another podcast I gotput on too, called the Emergency
Mind podcast.
Emergency Mind put on too,called the Emergency Mind
podcast, emergency Mind.
It talks about some really deeptopics that are really good
about understanding how a personaddresses conflict and a
problem and where they go withit, and it's been.
(16:17):
I pulled a lot of details outof that to dovetail something
together that is succinct andable to be digested by people
quickly.
Jodie (16:26):
Absolutely.
Carl Peecher (16:27):
You know where I see this going is.
I just hope more people willsee it at other patrols and go
with it.
I don't personally want to, youknow, go revolutionize the
world.
That's not the goal.
What I'm hoping is everybodysees the value in it and moves
towards better.
You know, hit the, hit the TedLasso, I believe, symbol up on
the wall and believe that we cando better and try.
(16:50):
And that's partly why I madethem as video messages and I put
it out there and I'm hopingthey get shared around and
pushed around.
Not because I want the creditis because I want the topics out
there and I'm hoping somebodygets inspiration from it and
realizes they can take this andmake something better.
Jodie (17:09):
Well, carl, I can guarantee you we will get that
video out there, because notonly with being the current but
outgoing advisor for this withbuilding of the web, we are
going to add that onto that.
So we definitely want the link.
So that, because this is alsoabout the whole sharing I was
going to bring this up earlier.
(17:29):
But it is realizing there's 11divisions in the National Ski
Patrol and it is fascinating themore that I get to talk with
other divisions and hearingeither things that they are
doing and it's like wow, but onthe same token, things that
(17:50):
they're not even aware thatother divisions are doing, and
it's like at times I feel likewe started officially back in
1938, but it almost seems likeour communication at times is
still back in that era.
Murphy (18:05):
In 1938.
Jodie (18:07):
And we have to rely on a snail mail to get delivered and
or print it in the weeklynewspaper and then get
disseminated.
Where we try to do theseworkshops, we try to get stuff
on the internet.
But I can guarantee you and forall the listeners we will get
all of these up there and on thesafety wellness page to be
(18:29):
shared, as long as Carl gives uspermission, absolutely.
Carl Peecher (18:32):
I'll take them.
They're on my teams undersafety.
Murph knows exactly where theyare.
He built it for me and Irecorded most of the weekends I
did.
And there were the Thursdaynight meetings where I would
talk for four or five minutesand try to give scenarios or try
to talk about a concept, andsome of them are pretty heady.
So you get pretty esotericlevels.
But if you listen into it Ithink there'll be some value
(18:54):
gained.
Jodie (18:54):
Right, but I mean it's just like you guys talked
earlier in this about differentthings that you were doing.
But it's interesting because ifthe more that we can get the
divisions talking, you wouldrealize that some have adopted
similar and I'm going to use theexample is NSAA, so the
(19:15):
National Ski Areas Associationhas in the fall the fall
education seminar, which is morefor the risk management etc.
So, Carl, and anybody that's Ithink it's October, something
that's going to be at Hood River, but that was one thing that
they brought up last year wasabout checklists and commenting
on a couple of patrols and Ican't remember what division it
(19:38):
was at the time that they saidthat they were.
So because they have attorneysthere, they have the life you
know the insurance and stuff.
People there and they were likethis is golden because it does
show, it has the checklist, itshows that they were checking of
this and this and this forsafety and different things and
I just we have to do morecommunication and sharing across
(20:00):
from place to place.
Cause Murph, we've talked Imean like talking with Gary
Burke and and other people ofjust hearing of how complicated
it was to try to communicatebefore the Internet.
Carl Peecher (20:14):
Obviously, you just hit on a really interesting
point because two years ago onthe Hill meeting I gave two big
talks to the whole patrol andthere was a legal representation
there for the hill and we were.
He had got up and he gave hisspeech and he talked about it
and it almost sounded likechecklists were not a good thing
(20:36):
from his point of view.
And I dug into it a little bitlike, oh wait a minute, a
well-executed and followedchecklist, is that a value?
He said absolutely.
So he got miscommunicatedbecause he said checklist can be
a legal hazard because thatwould show that you didn't
follow the checklist.
And my comeback to it is well,that's not necessarily true.
(20:59):
If you don't follow a checklistthat is defined in what you're
supposed to do, sure then thatis a personal liability.
But that is the whole reason wehave and follow procedures and
checklists is, if we have aprocedure and checklist that we
follow, we are one in complianceand one we're legally safe.
And at that point it comes to abigger picture.
If a problem occurs now througha safety management system,
(21:23):
right, we can look at that errorthat occurred and say, ah, we
need to change the procedure tomake it better, to mitigate that
problem.
But if we just don't makeprocedures because we're scared
that it's going to be a riskthat people won't follow them,
well then every single event isthis new experiment and we're
just trying it on for size andthat doesn't work right.
(21:45):
So you know, and he clarifiedthat no, no, no, well, no, no,
well-written and well-executedand followed procedure is
amazing, because then they cango and say yes, they check that
rope line because it's part oftheir daily procedure and they
do that every day.
Jodie (21:58):
So that rope line, but that's just it.
I mean, look at the people that, even in the medical field that
work.
If they're five days a week orthree 12-hour shifts a week,
whatever, it doesn't matter.
The fire service it's 24-hourshift, et cetera.
You haven't had a specific call, you haven't had a specific
thing.
You can't say that you're goingto be able to, just because you
(22:19):
know this is your full-timework, you're going to be able to
pull that out of your head andby having that checklist of
saying, well, I haven't donethis particular thing in a while
, or I haven't been up for acouple of weeks, or there's so
many variances.
That's where it gets you backto.
Oh, it's a good reminder, justlike we have OEC once a year.
(22:39):
But wow, when you can have aarea and people join in of every
month you talk about somethingas a good review and it's that
constant reviewing.
That's what gets it morecemented.
But I mean medical etc.
Carl Peecher (22:54):
But yeah, definitely and that's currency
versus proficiency.
You had asked earlier on aboutif I had seen changes and you
just spurred my mind on that.
One of the huge changes I'mnoticing is the dispatchers down
at Mountain Base.
When a patroller calls in witha problem, and if something
isn't asked for, that is likelyclearly that dispatcher down in
(23:18):
the base area is thinkingthrough the problem, where they
are and what's going on, andwe'll ask questions like have
you thought about transportationyet?
And that will often spur theon-scene patroller like oh yeah,
we need to actually think abouthow we're going to get this
person off the hill, and that iscrew resource management.
The person doesn't have to bethere on scene to be part of the
(23:41):
resources available.
The radio is a stretch tostretch our resources out, and
in the base we often havedoctors, we have amazing
technicians, we have people thatcan help and they can provide
assistance verbally to guide theperson that's on the scene
fighting the problem Right,which you know comes down to
communication is key, right?
(24:02):
So, just like you were saying,communication is all of it.
Murphy (24:06):
Oh yeah, all right.
Well, we're kind of running outof time, we're past our hour
again, but let me, we're goingto.
We're going to finish this withtwo questions.
Right One, if you, if I gaveyou a magic wand and you could
change anything about the patrol, yeah, what would it be Active
membership, membership, activementorship.
Carl Peecher (24:25):
It would be a proactive process by everybody
involved to seek opportunitiesto share your knowledge.
So it's not a change of what wedo on the hill.
I'm not going to say, hey, theway we run sleds down the hill
is not ideal.
We do it differently than manyothers.
But what I will say is, let'suse this opportunity that if I'm
(24:48):
going out to go to the boundaryline in Northway, I'm going to
look in the room and say, do Ihave any new patrollers standing
around here that probablyhaven't done this yet or haven't
experienced it yet?
And then I'm going to look atit and say, hey, would you like
to come along with me andexperience this?
And I've done that.
And I find often that that ispositively received and like, oh
(25:10):
yes, thank you, I'd love to gosee it.
So that active mentorship ofgetting things you know, because
a good patroller is proactive,they seek information and they
focus on what's right, not who'sright, and so guiding them.
Jodie (25:25):
And and, like you said, the new people are where we can
probably hit the ongoing andfuture.
But it's also like youmentioned earlier.
It doesn't matter whetheryou've been on a patrol for 10
years.
It doesn't matter the length oftime.
Like you said before, if youhaven't been to this area in a
while, let's all review and it'show you're how you're
(25:46):
presenting it is is huge on thatand I just wow and so, and
that's just it.
Carl Peecher (25:52):
so I'll pull into my airline world again.
I will have a 65 year oldairline captain who has been a
captain for 30 years.
He knows this jet inside andout and he's going to work with
a 23 year old, and that 23-oldmay be more proficient and
current with the currentprocedures, policies,
regulations, or just may seesomething that that other fella
(26:15):
doesn't see.
And we have empowered it andthis is a, you know, it's been a
pretty aggressive empowermentto make sure that 23-year-old
can speak up and stop theoperation if they see something
wrong, to make sure that23-year-old can speak up and
stop the operation if they seesomething wrong.
And so that is where we comefrom.
This is, how do we convincepeople that it's okay to be the
(26:35):
more experienced controller butmaybe not be the one who is the
profair of knowledge?
Mentorship goes both ways.
It's not just older to younger.
Mentorship goes from knowledgeto lack of knowledge.
It goes across.
And so that awareness of, likeyou know, I haven't done
belaying for a while.
Huh, so who knows how to belay?
(26:56):
And it might be the youngestperson who happens to be a rock
climber that's really, reallyvetted in belaying, and I'll
come out and I'll show you.
You know that knowledge needsto go both ways, and we need to
all accept that knowledge can goboth ways.
Just because I'm older or beenon patrol longer or been doing
my job longer doesn't mean Ihave all knowledge and all
wisdom.
Murphy (27:17):
That's a great philosophy, absolutely All right
, jodi, this is Jodi's question.
She loves it.
Jodie (27:23):
I do, but we have one more you put in there.
What advice would you givesomeone considering joining but
worried about the timecommitment?
Oh yeah, it was a good one.
I wanted with your, as you said, five years so you can relate.
What would you say?
Carl Peecher (27:41):
Oh yeah, and so from actually second year I was
already starting to go reach outto the new patrollers.
I went to a couple of the OECclasses to talk to them about
what they're getting into,because that was not conveyed to
me when I started up and I'mnot to say this is negative, but
the level of commitment for thefirst year, and probably two
years, was not really conveyedof how steep the learning curve
(28:03):
was going to be, and so it wasmy belief that we needed to let
people know how hard this isgoing to be and what you're
going to learn and your brain isgoing to grow and you're going
to stretch and you'll be pushedto your boundaries continuously.
It will get better and you'llget to a more steady slope and
an increasement.
But yeah, for this year or twoit's going to be every day that
(28:25):
you're up there.
You need to be working hard.
You probably are not going tofind a time where you're just
sitting around waiting, and ifyou're not into that, you need
to change your perspective andmaybe this isn't the thing for
you, and that's okay, it's not anegative.
It's just, you'll be aware,because we need people that are
involved and eager and proactive, and that proactiveness of
(28:49):
learning, proactiveness of doing, looking for the task that's
not done that's what it's goingto be all about, and so if
you're waiting for knowledge tocome to you, you've already
failed.
You need to be seeking it andgrowing from it.
Jodie (28:59):
Oh, I like that statement right there.
Murphy (29:02):
We're going to have to just put a soundbite to that one
.
But Jody is glowing right now.
You can't see her.
But Jodi is glowing right now.
Jodie (29:07):
Oh, you see Well and we usually end with this one
question.
However, we have been talkingabout it practically throughout
this whole thing, but it wasbasically, I mean, the NSP creed
from 1938, service and safety,and so, granted, from some
people we've asked what they'veseen over the years.
(29:30):
But have you thought about whenyou first, I guess you know,
and the other thing is, a lot oftimes people, when you're first
new, you don't even realizethere's this huge umbrella and
there's NSB and there's all that.
You're just focused on yourlocal patrol.
But in your five years have youseen anything that has struck
you in either way or better toimprove, or any thoughts to that
(29:55):
?
I mean, we've talked a lotabout safety etc.
Carl Peecher (29:58):
But yeah, yeah, with service and safety.
Right, with safety comesservice and with service becomes
an opportunity, and it's anopportunity for people to get
out and do something.
So our guests that come to thehill want to have an outdoor
adventurous experience, to beable to do it, and they may not
(30:19):
have the knowledge or skills toknow where is dangerous.
And so you know our educationprocess on the hill of talking
to people and telling them thereason we put that rope out
there is not because we want toprotect that little rope line or
that little run for us, thepatrol.
No, we're protecting becausethere's a hazard that you don't
see.
So with a service and safety isour concept is we are
(30:41):
protecting and building a safetybubble around our guests so
they can operationalize and goout and do things that are
adventurous and are risky, right?
So this was a good question.
I introduced risk management andtalked about safety and
managing risk.
And what do you do when you seea risk?
And you identify it, youcontrol it and you try to
(31:02):
mitigate it, but we cannot makeall risks go away.
Risk is inherent to our life.
Even if you laid in bed all daylong, there is still a risk
that a tree could fall on yourhouse.
There's always risk involved,but how do you manage it?
And well-managed risk isexperience, and that is trying
something and it's an adventure.
So, yeah, that's where in theservice world we're going out to
(31:25):
build that environment wherepeople can experience something
beyond what they might normallybe able to do, and do it safely.
And hopefully we can make aneducation piece to that as well
as we go.
And that's one thing that Brent, our patrol director, has
really inspired is haveconversations with our guests,
and I love that.
Stop and talk to them and justtalk to them about what's going
(31:46):
on, because that education ofour community, you know.
So when I'm riding up achairlift, I'm often talking to
the people on the chairliftabout what's going on.
Where's going to be good, whyis it going to be good, why is
that area bad?
Oh, and then usually an ahamoment occurs in that process.
Jodie (32:01):
Oh boy, I could not have asked you to say that any better
.
Seriously the whole thing abouttalking to the public and I
mean I feel that that has gottensegued out and it's just sort
of this pigeonhole thing and itjust needs to be so much more
(32:22):
coming back of just having agood conversation, which it
brings good wellness to thepublic.
It brings good wellness to thepatrollers too.
Carl Peecher (32:29):
Yeah, I've done a couple of years.
I go out and stay with a friendin Colorado and we've skied a
bunch of high name resorts inColorado and I've noticed a
complete difference in the waythey interact and generally what
I noticed is the patrollers arenot seen on the hill, they're
hiding, they're not out engaging.
(32:50):
They come to the problem.
They'll run a sled like a snowmachine to bring the sled to
patients and pull the patientaway.
Ski patrol, where we go outthere and we actually see people
and are making a visibility ofourselves.
And I have been dumbfounded bysome of the big mountains where
(33:12):
I'm looking around and I go thewhole day and not see a single
red jacket.
And that's just not in myparadigm.
You know, if you're in a bigcity and you see a few police
officers walking around, thatshould be a good thing.
That's a sign there's peoplethere.
If you see medical, you seepeople.
(33:32):
That's a good thing.
There's a service industry thatis supporting us.
When you don't see us out there, I think that diminishes the
comfort level of our guestsbecause they don't know is
anybody stopping this stuff?
That's crazy.
And then we don't see themisbehavior If we're only called
out when it's reported thatthere's a jump being a kicker
been put in on downhill.
Well, okay, then we come outand we break it down.
Well, meanwhile that kicker hadbeen there for some length of
time and stuff had been going onthat was inappropriate
(33:56):
absolutely yeah absolutely yeah,it's good, carl.
Murphy (34:00):
Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your
story.
It's always a joy hearingfirsthand what it means to
dedicate your time and heart tothe ski patrol, the storms,
sunrise, sunsets and all theadventures that happen in
between.
It's a powerful reminder ofthose people who keep us safe on
the mountain.
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