September 3, 2025 • 40 mins
Wellness isn't just a buzzword—it's a critical component of performance for those who respond to emergencies on the mountain and beyond. This revealing conversation, recorded at the Pacific Northwest Division's annual 2025 Convention, brings together an extraordinary panel of experts from across the first responder spectrum to share hard-won insights about building resilience in high-stress environments. (2:2 Parts)
This Keynote Panel's conversation brought together specialists from crisis response dog teams, fire departments, mountain rescue, police, and the FBI to share their hard-won wisdom about building resilience in high-stress environments. Their insights reveal that while different first responder groups may speak different operational languages, they share common challenges in maintaining mental wellness while performing demanding duties.
https://www.hopeaacr.org HOPE Nationwide Canines. Phone: 877-467-3597 Teams - Respond at No Charge
Seattle Fire Dept: email Kristin.Cox@seattle.gov
SeattleMountainRescue.org & email: info@seattlemountainrescue.org
Bluegritwellness.com & email: ewtung@gmail.com
Kristin Cox talked about:
- Kevin Gilmartin, Emotional Survivor for Law Enforcement. (“Really for all first responders” per Kristin Cox)
- Tactical Empathy:
This concludes the Keynote Panel Discussion. We really appreciate everyone's participation from the panel members, the HOPE Dog teams, and all that attended!
Let’s continue the conversation around wellness, resilience, and innovation within ou
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jodie (00:00):
Welcome back to the second half of our keynote
session from our convention thatwas held in August.
If you missed part one, pleasecheck out Patroller Chats for
that first half.
This is where we welcomed apanel of experienced responders
located here in the NorthwestFrom EMS, police, fire and
Search and Rescue, who sharereal-world strategies for
wellness, lessons learned fromworking in high-stress
(00:22):
environments and how they havewoven resilience into their team
cultures.
They offered powerful takeawaysfor ski patrollers and
leadership, from those juststarting to build wellness
programs to those looking toevolve and strengthen what they
already have.
It was an opportunity to learnabout the challenges they have
faced, how they adapted and howthey brought their people
(00:43):
together around a sharedcommitment to wellness.
And it concluded with more ofthe question and answer from the
audience.
Let's listen in now.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I began to touch on it just now.
But my question was what's theinteraction between the recovery
dogs and the mission dogs that?
I assume?
Mountain Rescue uses dogs andon occasion the police have a
dog use and so you have missiondogs that have a job, a
(01:12):
different type of job where it'snot a lot of interaction, and
you have the recovery dogs thatare brought in for a lot of
interaction.
So the dogs kind of are the tipof this in that shift in
interaction, but also and Ithink Eric started to touch on
(01:34):
it the relationship in thewellness program between the
mission use and the recovery useand how those interplay.
Jodie (01:44):
I think you got several of you going to have to answer
that one.
Doug McCall (01:47):
Yeah, I think, from my perspective, the dogs that
are on the mission, they'reworking to locate an individual.
The ruffles does not go intothe field.
Ruffles is at base andgenerally is there when we get
back from the mission.
(02:08):
So you know, maybe a searchmission where we have the dogs
that are out there, the KingCounty Sardogs, I think they
have air scent and human remainsdogs and they are out, you know
, doing their thing.
We all go out and do our thing,search, but when we all come
back, what I think is greatabout the program is that
(02:32):
Ruffles and our resilience teamis there for everyone back in
base and on some incidentsthey're there for the family who
may have shown up at base towhose family member is either
missing or has had an incident.
And so the Ruffles, theresilience dogs, they'll stay in
(02:59):
base and there's a separationbetween the working piece.
Well, they're both working,they're just're just working in
different spaces.
Their job classifications, yeah, I would say, just like a
mountain rescue team isdifferent from a dog team.
You know you've got a technicalpiece aspect of it and then
you've got, you know, the theair scent piece that we don't
(03:20):
have raquel.
Jodie (03:24):
did you want to add anything in that?
You're fine if you don't haveRaquel, did you?
Raquel Lackey (03:29):
want to add anything in that.
You're fine if you don't.
The Hope Dog teams stand asideand support when they come out
of the field or when you're notin the field, and I think Doug
did a good job about explainingwhile they're all in the field,
you guys are all dealing withsomebody on scene.
(03:49):
I'm usually behind the scenesshoring up the family or
spending time while they'rewaiting for their loved one to
come back or being called Onemission.
I was called to Mount Rainierwith the dogs because they had
to do a body recovery up atMount Rainier.
We all know that dogs are notallowed in the national parks.
(04:11):
However, because that team washaving such an intense and yucky
recovery, the rangers knew theyneeded to break through and
have support for them as theydealt with the family or had to
communicate with the families ofbringing that soul back.
So that's kind of what goes on.
(04:32):
If we train our dogs properly,they don't want to interact with
any other dogs.
Eric Tung (04:37):
You notice the dogs that if you saw them interact or
come in, ruffles isn't going toleo, ruffles is going towards
the person right, and so she'strained for that smell of the
human, what we smell like andwho needs our help one thing
that I'll add in is uh, as we'rehaving this conversation is we
(05:00):
talked about introducing and inintroducing, socializing and
building that trust before theevent, right, and so in the
times that I've called a Raqueland team to come to the PD, it's
actually not been in crisis.
(05:21):
There's kind of these microcrises all the time and faces,
so that when we do have a hugeincident and a debrief and there
are people in tragedy andtrauma and mourning, these are
familiar faces and familiarfurry paws.
But in actuality it was morethan just familiarizing.
There'd be a lot of people thatgot really excited because the
dogs are here and people lovedogs A lot of people do.
(05:43):
And then there's other peoplethat generally don't smile, just
around strangers or in thehallways or at all, and then
they would gravitate towards thedogs or they'd just be kind of
there and they'd kind of lookdown and then they kind of start
petting the dog and then they'dbe down on their hands and
knees and then they'd be talkingto Raquel or you know, one of
the handler, drivers, chauffeursthat we have for like 15, 20
(06:11):
minutes about their day, abouttheir week, about all this other
stuff which is like anotherversion of maybe hiding the
medicine or just socializing itand then just see where it takes
off.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
I think that that story is kind of consistent with
the question I wanted to ask.
I think a lot of people, theirfirst introduction to behavioral
health comes when theythemselves experience some kind
of crisis, whether it's a smallcrisis or a big crisis, and I
think that most of the storiesI've heard about organizations
that have effectively installedresiliency programs often are
(06:38):
organizations that had some kindof significant crisis.
You're all nodding your head.
So here's the question Do wehave success stories of
organizations that have not yetsuffered a major crisis, that
have been able toinstitutionalize a resilience
program?
Dr Shannon Meyer (06:59):
Yes, One very good example is South County
Fire.
One very good example is SouthCounty Fire, and they started
with passion and a vision justto get this work started and
with a lot of administrativesupport, they've really
developed a program.
That's admirable.
And so, yes, they're often Ithink it's less frequent, but
(07:23):
those programs do exist as well,for sure.
Jodie (07:26):
And I'm going to add to that.
So, just so that all of youknow yes, unfortunately it does
end up with that.
But if we're going across ourdivisions, we had a patrol with
the National Task Force thatwe've been trying to get more
exposure to all the divisions onthis, and one of the members
had approached and I want to sayit was Montana and I can't
(07:46):
remember exactly, but he wasapproaching some of the PDs and
just saying hey, you know, Iwant to let you know about some
of the resources.
You may have heard about someof the workshops we've been
doing, etc.
And the initial response waswe're fine, we haven't had
anything in a long time.
But what he did do is he wentover a lot of the resources and
(08:08):
talked and spent time going overit and at the end we got it
handled.
It was the very next week theyhad a chairlift incident and he
got the call right up and said Ihave a feeling, I know what I
can do, thank you, I know I wasresistant before, but here we
(08:28):
are and I don't feel as lost andFar West Division, where we,
casey and I, were initiallystarting this off.
In our division we had somepatrols already established,
some that were crawling.
For those that know that I workin the ER, I'm used to this.
All right, hurry up, let's gomove to the next.
All right, and I'm not verygood at the long term.
(08:51):
Shelly had to keep talking tome but Far West they had was
approached by many patrols andthey just ran with it without an
incident.
They just got it.
Well, they were asking for it,they ran with it and we're like
whoa, okay.
So it just.
It varies, but the more youknow now gets you into the point
(09:12):
of when something might happen.
If that helps a little bit.
You guys were
Dr Shannon Meyer (09:17):
May I add to that just for one second, Jodie?
One of the really importantthings to understand about PTSD
and traumatic stress injuriesalso is it's not the bad
incident that's going to tip youover.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it'sthe worst thing you've ever
freaking seen.
But many times the people whoend up being injured
(09:37):
psychologically injured, and whoneed to, who are injured to the
extent that they can't just getback to work, who need some
higher level of care, it's somebull right, it's some stupid
little event that has enoughmeaning.
There's been enough stress andtrauma accumulated that it's
(10:00):
some ridiculous thing thatreally tips them over.
Which is another reason whyit's really nice not to depend
on a major incident to get aprogram started.
Because, again, we talk a lot onthis stage amongst ourselves
about moral injury and that'sone of the four really primary
(10:23):
pathways to the development ofpost-traumatic stress disorder
and other traumatic stressinjuries.
But that has to do with ouradministration, not politically,
but it can also.
But in terms of who's runningski patrol.
Do they understand?
Are they supporting us?
So, again, our most significantpsychological injuries do they
(10:47):
come from?
The really hard kid calls youbetcha, but it's really
important to understand thatit's all of the other stuff too
that can really mess us up.
Jodie (11:02):
That can really mess us up.
Thank you, we got Casey overhere and then Joseph is going to
have a return visit with us, sothose of you who have been here
for a while will know what thatmeans.
Speaker 9 (11:16):
Hey, thanks, panel.
I have two questions, and thefirst one is how do we transcend
this job literacy to ourfriends and family in a
non-traumatizing way?
Obviously, some of the thingsthat we experience are
confidential and other thingsare not worth resharing in all
of their traumatic nature.
(11:37):
So how do we build thatliteracy at home?
And then second question is howdo we support friends and
family, bystanders, evenpatients at the scene, in a
meaningful way?
Eric Tung (11:52):
yeah, if I can uh go on the first question, I think
and it kind of ties in with thisgentleman's question before too
like I'll I'll say real quickthere are people, there are
agencies that have sufferedterrible casualties, that don't
have wellness programs, likethey have not responded
effectively, retroactively, butthen there's also plenty of
organizations that see somethingthat happens like over there,
(12:12):
or almost happen, and that'sthose are the contingency
planners, those are theproactive thinkers and leaders
at all levels.
So you might respond to a thingYou're like oh man, this could
this, this is okay, this couldhave been really bad if this,
this, this, this would happen.
And you debrief it and you,after action, you talk about it.
And so that ties in with yourfirst question, sir, where it's
just the in all theconversations I've had and what
(12:34):
I recognize in my ownrelationship or relationships
and those close to me and thosethat are shared from all
perspectives, is you talk aboutit before.
Or if some conversations wentnot so great, like myself
specifically telling about acall that I just it was just so
crazy, I just had to tellsomeone and it was my wife,
(12:55):
unfortunately for her and whenshe heard it, her shock and awe
and all the color left her faceand I was like too far right,
like okay, note to self, don'tdo that again, don't talk about
that extremely traumatic injury.
However, a lot of people whatI've found or shared about is
like a lot of people.
(13:18):
What I've found or shared aboutis like find what where your,
your person, or your your yourolder kid, or where your mom or
whoever where your person is at.
Some people are naturally veryinquisitive, which doesn't mean
you're naturally very open, butjust to know where you're at and
know where your person's at,and then find the middle ground
and that could be tools.
Like you've had a day.
You don't want to talk about it, but you want your person to
(13:39):
know that you've had a day.
And so you're like, hey, I'mcoming in like a three, just
need some space, right.
And then that way, since youtalked about it, then it's not a
personal thing, you're not mad,it's not the thing.
You take the dog, you don'teven go inside the house, you
walk around the block and youcome back.
You're like, maybe talk aboutthis one tomorrow, and then you
just know, right.
And so you build in theselittle codes and cues so that
(13:59):
it's not a surprise.
Dr Shannon Meyer (14:01):
It's super important to have these
conversations up front, becausewhat our kids and our wives and
husbands do is assume that thedistance or the iciness or the
eggshells are about them andit's not.
And so, finding out, what doyou want to hear?
Do you want to hear the bloodand gore?
Or do I just come home and sayit was a really sad day, this
(14:26):
was a really hard one and that'sall you can tolerate?
So, again, having those kinds ofconversations upfront and
understanding what you need andwhat your partner needs, and
because, if you need somethingthat your partner can't tolerate
, if you need to talk about itin all of its glory, right,
which I know exactly the kind Isuspect that I know what kind of
(14:49):
call you're talking about orwhat kind of shift you're
talking about.
Well, if your partner can'ttolerate that, for whatever
reason, that's okay.
But who can and who do you geton the horn with and be like
dude?
It was and this was, like youcan't believe what happened.
So, again, knowing what youneed is first asking your
(15:12):
partner or your kids or yourfriends what are their limits
and just negotiating that I'mgoing to jump in.
Kristin Cox (15:22):
There's a great resource if you're into taking a
look at more in-depth stuff.
Kevin Gilmartin is a guy out of.
He's a law enforcement officer,retired out of Oregon, I
believe, arizona, oh, arizona,kevin Gilmartin.
He's written a couple things.
One of them was emotionalsurvival for law enforcement,
(15:43):
but it's really just for firstresponders.
Highly recommend him.
And the other thing to yoursecond question I'd recommend
considering something calledtactical empathy, which is
essentially psychological firstaid.
It's being present with peoplewhile holding your own and kind
of holding that emotionalregulation for yourself and not
(16:03):
getting swept away.
It's applying, it's beingempathetic, but it's not doing
it in a way that's going to takeyou down with them or have you
swept away as well.
Jodie (16:13):
Thank you, all right, so can you hold one second?
Okay, we're going to take a.
We've talked about our lots ofdifferent things, but one of the
other things that was mentionedvery early on was a little bit
about our own fitness.
You guys have been sitting fora bit.
Joseph, for those that remember, has been leading us the last
(16:34):
several years of doing this, sowe're going to have you all
stand up, and our panel iswelcome to.
Just don't fall off the back tocome along.
The dogs can participate too,and Joseph, take it away.
While you won't be able to seewhat's happening over the next
(16:54):
few minutes, you will hear abrief moment that truly captures
the energy that was in the room.
Picture yourself in theaudience as joseph rar, our
outdoor risk management advisor,leads us through a fun,
light-hearted stretch session,mixing fitness, laughter and a
show of support for our formerdivision director, shelly Urban,
(17:15):
as she prepares for her run inthe next month's NSP Board of
Directors election.
Feel free to pause the audioand stretch along with us, and
then we'll resume our keynote,all right?
Joseph Ferraro (17:29):
first off, we've got to have a little bit of
that.
Who are you going to vote for?
Huh, who are you going to votefor?
Shelly.
Vote for Shelly.
Vote for Shelley.
Vote for Shelley.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Vote for Shelley Vote for.
Joseph Ferraro (17:39):
Shelley, don't forget that.
Vote for Shelley.
Ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
To get warmed up a little bit,make some space.
Everybody's going to have alittle space.
Jodie (17:52):
And you can join in too.
Joseph Ferraro (17:57):
Come back to center, namaste.
Side to stretch
Jodie (18:05):
All right.
.
So this is also important, youknow, at your morning meeting,
the afternoon lunch, et cetera.
Brad, take it away.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
Thanks a lot.
That feels much better.
So jody, as everyone knows, hasbeen our duck and we've been on
her back and we've all beenlearning about all these
emotional you know, supportprograms and everything.
And I feel like a lot of us, ormy observation is that a lot of
patrols are going from thelearning phase into the cultural
(18:36):
phase or socialization phase.
What recommendations do youhave or tips or tricks on
turning these programs fromtraining programs to this is
what we do.
Eric Tung (18:58):
I think it's identifying the people that are,
you know, you're, passionatefolks that are willing to be all
the boots on the ground,proverbially like all in these
little subgroups, to be theperson that introduces things
right.
It doesn't have to be thesupervisor or the lead, but it's
literally like when we talkabout peer support, we do have,
you know, our peer support,trained people in our industries
, but also it's just like thisculture of peer support, and so
(19:18):
sometimes, like the ones thatstuck out to me the most are
literally the.
It's the guy or gal who's justlike, yeah, that was ***up.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Doc said it first so.
Eric Tung (19:28):
I'm allowed now.
If you waited this long for acop to swear, then we win.
For a cop to swear, then we win.
Um, but it's truly like it'sthe, you know it's the, it's the
veteran officer.
For us that's like, hey, thatthat call was really messed up.
And then that is that opens up,it allows that space and that
place for people to agree and belike okay, it wasn't just me.
(19:48):
You may have a lot of wordsshared, a lot of like kind of
experiences shared, or you maynot.
So that's just like an examplefor peer support.
So hopefully that answers yourquestions of just like helping
identify those things and evenhaving maybe seeing if that
person's willing to share.
Outside of that, becausethey've already stepped up,
they've already demonstratedthemselves in that way.
Kristin Cox (20:07):
I'm going to jump in.
I agree with that, and I thinkit's about somebody and it
doesn't even have to be the mostimpacted person but somebody
who's willing to say thatthey're going to be a little bit
vulnerable.
And by vulnerable I do not meancompletely psychologically
getting naked in front ofsomeone else, that's not what I
mean.
I mean just saying yeah, thatwas intense, right, and that
(20:31):
kind of starts the conversation.
Or even to say to come in, youknow in to a regular meeting,
not even an event itself, but tosay I got a lot of shit going
on right now.
I am not at my best, so youguys have my back right and just
let people know that you arehuman.
That again gives permission tosomeone else that again gives
(20:55):
permission to someone else.
Doug McCall (20:56):
Yeah, I would say, you know, kind of setting up the
normalization is important andwe've been able to.
We started with a building a fewyears ago and after every
mission now we come back to that, to the building, and
(21:17):
especially if it's a, you know,actually every mission we come
back and we'll either do ainternal debrief and grab snacks
, grab pizza, you know, andwe've we've actually budgeted
specific funds for resilience sothat after missions we'll come
back and order pizza, and thenwe have a resilience team.
(21:38):
So we've got I don't know, Ithink it's, I'll say a handful
of people on the team that ifit's a specifically intense
incident recovery of our friendswe do that more frequently than
not then we'll have thosemembers on the resilience team
(21:59):
will end up reaching out to thepeople who are on that mission.
And so the setting up a way Idon't know how it works in the
ski patrol space, but myassumption is there's like a
patrol room and you know, ifthere's some incident, you know
you come back, you debrief alittle bit after the incident
(22:22):
and you get a chance to shareand just setting up that, just
that normalization.
This is just what we do.
I'm going to jump in on thatnormalization, what, what eric
said?
Raquel Lackey (22:33):
we found that bringing in the Hope Dogs
originally the Hope Dogs werebrought in during an incident
and then it got to a point of,oh shit, the Hope Dogs are here,
something must be going on.
What aren't they telling me?
And so, like Eric brought up,we started doing fun with the
Hope Dogs.
Right, it wasn't a bad incident, even visiting the 911 dispatch
(22:57):
for Seattle Fire.
So, having that ability tobuild those relationships and
trust before that incidenthappens and not having the dogs
then be a trigger, because wedon't know what's going to
trigger each and every one of uson a specific day, I might be
able to be able to handle thatparticular call on Monday, but
(23:21):
by Friday I'm at my wits end.
And building up thoserelationships with your
teammates of them to be able togo hmm, she's a little bit off,
or me being able to say I'm alittle bit crunchy today I need
some extra TLC, just normalizingthose types of relationships
(23:43):
and making it so.
We're on SMR in particular, ifI text or call one of the
teammates, they know it's notthat.
Oh, I think that they'rehurting or they need me.
It's just that.
Wow, someone really caresenough to reach out and actually
kind of see me.
Jodie (24:03):
And really want to expand on this just a little bit more.
Obviously, we're just at the100,000 foot level.
Trying to go over this, tryingto get into it.
We've talked about things thatwere critical.
We've also talked about thingsof the day-to-day and what
people are saying.
Try to also always keep in mindyour foundation, your
(24:25):
foundation level that isaffecting all of us, before we
go.
It's our relationships, ourfinances, our work life.
It's world events, local events.
You're just having a bad day.
One person was raised over inthis area, another person was
raised over here and havetotally different mindsets of
how to talk to someone, not totalk to someone, different
(24:47):
exposures that you know nothingabout.
And this is where it's crucialthat we start to get to know
each other more.
It's not just on the roster orchecking you off.
Get to know.
How are you going to know whensomeone is a little bit off?
What have you worked on to say,hey, I need some time just to
(25:08):
spend with somebody?
Whether it's just watching theweather, whether you're just
taking a stroll, it doesn'tmatter.
But you've also got torecognize that.
I give my example.
And he left the room.
God, jack, jack's gone, isn'the Okay?
So last year for those thatwere here, you remember that we
(25:30):
had to change our hotel venuefive days before.
Okay had a little bit of funstress with that, but actually
it went really well.
Just trying to go in and I wasin charge of the programs and
stuff and I'm thinking, okay,life is good, et cetera.
We got this, we're goingthrough this, and then my
brother calls me the nightbefore I come down and he says
goodbye, he's dying of cancer.
(25:51):
So I realized that you know, Iwas coming across a little
crabby and it was jack to thankme for that, because he comes up
, he was with murph and jack inthe elevator and I can't
remember what the conversationwas and I was just like I just
(26:12):
need to get some stuff done andI don't know what I said.
But jack at me, he goes.
That was a little terse, that'sall he said.
And it was my wake up call ofsaying holy crap, yep, and I do
this every month with you guys.
I live this, I breathe this atwork, et cetera.
(26:33):
And I was in my own little fog,and so you have to recognize
that as well, that it can happen.
And going up to someone just tosay, hey, you know what's up, or
et cetera, or hey, what's youknow.
Can you show me this?
Just get them into where yousort of clear up?
The other thing is has anybodyheard of Simon Sinatek If I'm
(26:56):
pronouncing his name right, okay, he's the one that gave the
example of some of you haveheard me use this example of.
He had a friend who's goingthrough a rough time and the
friend had reached out to himand said you know, I was really
getting in a dark place.
And well, why didn't you tellme, you know, why didn't you
(27:17):
talk to me about it?
And the person said I did.
I texted you and he grabbed thephone.
He's like what do you mean?
I'm looking at the phone.
This is hey, you want to havecoffee.
So it for that person.
That was his reach out.
What they realized is that, hey,you know what, we need to come
up with something.
And they came up with.
(27:38):
And it doesn't matter what, butfor them they came up with.
If I text you, do you haveeight minutes?
You have eight minutes to goget out of a meeting.
You have eight minutes to maybegive you a call back.
But that was sort of it's not a9-1-1, but it was hey, really
would like to reach out to you,and so it's not assumed, okay.
So these are some otherexamples.
(28:00):
We are winding down guys, butI'd love to do this the whole
day and you know I would if Icould, but we have seven minutes
.
So who's got some questions andto to wrap up here, so we got
here.
Speaker 12 (28:13):
One, two, three, a real quick one.
Do you ever do a joint?
Yeah, sorry, I'll just makethis real brief.
So by definition, we all mustcompartmentalize this stuff in
the moment, right, whether it'smedicine, rescue, whatever.
(28:33):
Do you guys have any tips onhow to, if you will, balance
putting it away and just doingyour job and then just dealing
with that and then coming back?
Kristin Cox (28:46):
Yes, if I had a dollar for every time somebody
told me I just compartmentalize,I would never have to work
again.
Compartmentalizing is good onscene Knowing how to unpack that
and how to balance it.
Your nervous system was nevermeant to be in dominant,
sympathetic nervous.
You have to learn how to toggleback and forth and give your
(29:09):
nervous system time to rebalance.
What works aboutcompartmentalizing is it allows
you to stay focused and clearwhile you're on scene.
What doesn't work aboutcompartmentalizing is it mutes
all your reactions, yourresponses, your emotions, and so
eventually you're not able totake your finger off the mute
button anymore and you have norange of emotions and your
(29:33):
family and friends notice that.
They're like where are you?
Hello, right.
And when you don't manage thatin a structured way to unpack
what you've compartmentalized,what ends up happening is has
anybody ever tried to clean outa garage?
That's been too long.
We do that about every threemonths at our house.
(29:56):
It is ugly and your whole lifecan.
Basically, it kind of implodes.
It either implodes or itexplodes, and so learning how to
do that is a skill set, andpart of that is starting to pay
attention to your internallandscape, your internal
situational awareness and listento what your body is telling
(30:23):
you.
Dr Shannon Meyer (30:23):
I would say also that, like garages, when
you have the tendency to putsomething in a box and shove it
away, eventually that spaceloses space and the boxes come
tumbling out.
So that's one of the problems,One of the pieces that I think
is worth.
Not everything needs to beprocessed equally.
End of story.
Right, Not everything is likeneeds to be psychodrama, but are
there boxes and compartmentsthat you have internally that
(30:47):
you worry about?
If you open the lid, what willcome spilling out and will it
ever stop?
That's your signal that there'smore to process and you've got
some very important processingto do.
Take me with a grain of salt.
I'm a psychologist, so I thinktherapy works very well If you
can find the right person, andit's a good match.
(31:09):
But one of the ways to screenthat stuff that we've
compartmentalized is howworrisome is it to
uncompartmentalize it?
Speaker 12 (31:22):
Does it make sense to ever have joint agency
debriefing?
Raquel Lackey (31:31):
Those are my favorite.
Kristin Cox (31:40):
Hell yes, if you do it carefully and you pay
attention so you're notaccidentally cross-traumatizing
people.
There are sometimes that thereare things that not everybody
needs to know everything becauseit adds to their burden and
maybe they're not equipped tokeep that in the
compartmentalized box right.
So being careful about that andthen making sure that you know
(32:00):
in those agencies what theirnorm is, so that you're not kind
of willy-nilly putting a bunchof people together that have
different ideas of what adebriefing might look like, and
I would also say along thoselines, it's a really good idea
to try and do mutual aidtraining with other agencies and
attend other things.
(32:21):
And to that end I'm carefullygoing to let you know Seattle
Fire is doing a free three-dayintensive mindful performance
class the 25th, 26th and 27th ofAugust.
It includes a mountain hike.
It's free and we have somespace available.
If anybody's interested, pleasecontact me and I'll make sure
(32:41):
you guys have my contact info.
We'd love to have you.
Oh, awesome, great.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Yeah, so mine kind of came around what you guys were
just starting to talk about.
But you all have establishedprograms right now and obviously
hope looks like touches all ofthem as well.
But how much now that you havean established program, how much
do you interact with each otherto go, hey, what are you doing
now?
Have you started something elseto expand your own programs and
(33:16):
make sure everyone's kind ofgetting what they need?
Kristin Cox (33:20):
I've done this kind of work for over 30 years.
You cannot do this work in avacuum.
You cannot do this work in avacuum.
My master's is inorganizational psychology.
I'm not a clinical person, andone of the things we know when
there's organizations that aresteeped in trauma, that are
encountering trauma all the time, is you have a tendency to kind
of go tunnel vision and thinkthat you're the only ones, and
(33:42):
it's really important to be ableto look around and be like oh,
everybody else is going throughthis shit too.
We're not the only one for thepanel.
Speaker 9 (34:02):
What, what three things, would you recommend
actions to take following atragic event?
Eric Tung (34:04):
three things, immediately after a tragic event
, to support your team, eitherin the presence or absence of a
resiliency program I think myfirst thing would go in in line
with the last question, which islike should you or one of the
prior questions, like should youco-op your agencies?
And I would say it depends, butlike what are the priorities?
(34:24):
So, identify the priorities.
And so, like your question, Ithink the first thing is like
identify the priorities.
The second thing, I think, foranyone, is to recognize like
it's about others, like we dothis job, because it's about
others, but it starts with usand there's a lot of ways you
could apply that philosophically, but I think that's just to go
on the cliche, like you can'tyou know you can't put someone
(34:44):
else's oxygen mask on beforethem before you do it for
yourself or you're in a badsituation.
And then, third, just realizeit's like the small steps.
You identify the priorities.
There's big rocks, there'slittle rocks and you start kind
of chipping away to them slowlyand then know that you're not on
an island.
There's a huge group of peoplehere today that care deeply
about performance and wellness,and there are a lot of people
(35:06):
that are a lot more behind thescenes, under the radar, but
they are there too.
A lot of people just need anudge and a job to do.
Raquel Lackey (35:16):
I think you've got to remember what's a
traumatic event for you.
Casey might not be for me right, and so it might be some big
hairy thing.
So the three things I can'ttell you, three things that's
going to work for you and mesimultaneous, but I would urge
the people, like jody, that fillthe role in ski patrol, pick up
(35:38):
the phone, say hello, I wouldsay self-assessment three times.
Dr Shannon Meyer (35:47):
And so where are you?
How are you?
Are your, are you givingyourself?
I always say after a majorincident, even after minor ones,
treat yourself like you havethe flu.
So don't plan to do extra hardlifting or running.
Don't expect to be on top ofyour game, expect to be more
tired.
So really figuring out, wheream I about this?
(36:10):
Don't expect yourself to be ontop of your game and understand
that the processes we're talkingabout are largely biological in
nature.
So when our nervous system isdysregulated and maxed out, we
often lack control overharnessing it again.
(36:31):
Right?
So I could talk for a long timeas a clinician, so I'll stop
now, but that would be a coupleof things.
Jodie (36:38):
So just wanted to thank everybody.
I am getting the hook in aworst way here and I have to let
them go.
But I ask one favor.
Well, actually I'm going to askmany.
All right, number one pleasedon't leave these on the table.
If you don't want them, that'sfine, but take it back to a
(36:59):
patrol member.
Take it back to somebody else.
Same thing with the cards.
You don't want it, that's fine,there's no problem with that,
but let's not leave them here.
Let's take the whole thing ofthe stuff that you were given in
your bags.
You don't want it.
Give it to someone on thepatrol.
All right, Encourage this.
We want to keep this going.
(37:19):
All right, A huge thank you toour panel, please.
This concludes our second halfof the keynote panel discussion
and really again appreciateeveryone's participation, from
the panel members, the Hope Dogteams and all that attended.
We hope that you foundinspiration in the strategies
(37:40):
shared by our incrediblepanelists, their experiences and
real-world wisdom.
Let's continue the conversationaround wellness, resilience and
innovation within our own lives, our patrols and the areas we
serve.
Remember, taking care of othersstarts with taking care of
ourselves first and each other.
Let's stay connected and keepleading the change.
(38:02):
If you want to learn more,please see the attached links in
the podcast description, aswell as the PNWD website, that
is wwwnsp-pnwd.
org.
At the top, select Safety andthen Safety Culture for All for
more information.
For now, this has beenPatroller Chats.
Welcome back to the second half of our keynote
session from our convention thatwas held in August.
If you missed part one, pleasecheck out Patroller Chats for
that first half.
This is where we welcomed apanel of experienced responders
located here in the NorthwestFrom EMS, police, fire and
Search and Rescue, who sharereal-world strategies for
wellness, lessons learned fromworking in high-stress
(00:22):
environments and how they havewoven resilience into their team
cultures.
They offered powerful takeawaysfor ski patrollers and
leadership, from those juststarting to build wellness
programs to those looking toevolve and strengthen what they
already have.
It was an opportunity to learnabout the challenges they have
faced, how they adapted and howthey brought their people
(00:43):
together around a sharedcommitment to wellness.
And it concluded with more ofthe question and answer from the
audience.
Let's listen in now.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I began to touch on it just now.
But my question was what's theinteraction between the recovery
dogs and the mission dogs that?
I assume?
Mountain Rescue uses dogs andon occasion the police have a
dog use and so you have missiondogs that have a job, a
(01:12):
different type of job where it'snot a lot of interaction, and
you have the recovery dogs thatare brought in for a lot of
interaction.
So the dogs kind of are the tipof this in that shift in
interaction, but also and Ithink Eric started to touch on
(01:34):
it the relationship in thewellness program between the
mission use and the recovery useand how those interplay.
Jodie (01:44):
I think you got several of you going to have to answer
that one.
Doug McCall (01:47):
Yeah, I think, from my perspective, the dogs that
are on the mission, they'reworking to locate an individual.
The ruffles does not go intothe field.
Ruffles is at base andgenerally is there when we get
back from the mission.
(02:08):
So you know, maybe a searchmission where we have the dogs
that are out there, the KingCounty Sardogs, I think they
have air scent and human remainsdogs and they are out, you know
, doing their thing.
We all go out and do our thing,search, but when we all come
back, what I think is greatabout the program is that
(02:32):
Ruffles and our resilience teamis there for everyone back in
base and on some incidentsthey're there for the family who
may have shown up at base towhose family member is either
missing or has had an incident.
And so the Ruffles, theresilience dogs, they'll stay in
(02:59):
base and there's a separationbetween the working piece.
Well, they're both working,they're just're just working in
different spaces.
Their job classifications, yeah, I would say, just like a
mountain rescue team isdifferent from a dog team.
You know you've got a technicalpiece aspect of it and then
you've got, you know, the theair scent piece that we don't
(03:20):
have raquel.
Jodie (03:24):
did you want to add anything in that?
You're fine if you don't haveRaquel, did you?
Raquel Lackey (03:29):
want to add anything in that.
You're fine if you don't.
The Hope Dog teams stand asideand support when they come out
of the field or when you're notin the field, and I think Doug
did a good job about explainingwhile they're all in the field,
you guys are all dealing withsomebody on scene.
(03:49):
I'm usually behind the scenesshoring up the family or
spending time while they'rewaiting for their loved one to
come back or being called Onemission.
I was called to Mount Rainierwith the dogs because they had
to do a body recovery up atMount Rainier.
We all know that dogs are notallowed in the national parks.
(04:11):
However, because that team washaving such an intense and yucky
recovery, the rangers knew theyneeded to break through and
have support for them as theydealt with the family or had to
communicate with the families ofbringing that soul back.
So that's kind of what goes on.
(04:32):
If we train our dogs properly,they don't want to interact with
any other dogs.
Eric Tung (04:37):
You notice the dogs that if you saw them interact or
come in, ruffles isn't going toleo, ruffles is going towards
the person right, and so she'strained for that smell of the
human, what we smell like andwho needs our help one thing
that I'll add in is uh, as we'rehaving this conversation is we
(05:00):
talked about introducing and inintroducing, socializing and
building that trust before theevent, right, and so in the
times that I've called a Raqueland team to come to the PD, it's
actually not been in crisis.
(05:21):
There's kind of these microcrises all the time and faces,
so that when we do have a hugeincident and a debrief and there
are people in tragedy andtrauma and mourning, these are
familiar faces and familiarfurry paws.
But in actuality it was morethan just familiarizing.
There'd be a lot of people thatgot really excited because the
dogs are here and people lovedogs A lot of people do.
(05:43):
And then there's other peoplethat generally don't smile, just
around strangers or in thehallways or at all, and then
they would gravitate towards thedogs or they'd just be kind of
there and they'd kind of lookdown and then they kind of start
petting the dog and then they'dbe down on their hands and
knees and then they'd be talkingto Raquel or you know, one of
the handler, drivers, chauffeursthat we have for like 15, 20
(06:11):
minutes about their day, abouttheir week, about all this other
stuff which is like anotherversion of maybe hiding the
medicine or just socializing itand then just see where it takes
off.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
I think that that story is kind of consistent with
the question I wanted to ask.
I think a lot of people, theirfirst introduction to behavioral
health comes when theythemselves experience some kind
of crisis, whether it's a smallcrisis or a big crisis, and I
think that most of the storiesI've heard about organizations
that have effectively installedresiliency programs often are
(06:38):
organizations that had some kindof significant crisis.
You're all nodding your head.
So here's the question Do wehave success stories of
organizations that have not yetsuffered a major crisis, that
have been able toinstitutionalize a resilience
program?
Dr Shannon Meyer (06:59):
Yes, One very good example is South County
Fire.
One very good example is SouthCounty Fire, and they started
with passion and a vision justto get this work started and
with a lot of administrativesupport, they've really
developed a program.
That's admirable.
And so, yes, they're often Ithink it's less frequent, but
(07:23):
those programs do exist as well,for sure.
Jodie (07:26):
And I'm going to add to that.
So, just so that all of youknow yes, unfortunately it does
end up with that.
But if we're going across ourdivisions, we had a patrol with
the National Task Force thatwe've been trying to get more
exposure to all the divisions onthis, and one of the members
had approached and I want to sayit was Montana and I can't
(07:46):
remember exactly, but he wasapproaching some of the PDs and
just saying hey, you know, Iwant to let you know about some
of the resources.
You may have heard about someof the workshops we've been
doing, etc.
And the initial response waswe're fine, we haven't had
anything in a long time.
But what he did do is he wentover a lot of the resources and
(08:08):
talked and spent time going overit and at the end we got it
handled.
It was the very next week theyhad a chairlift incident and he
got the call right up and said Ihave a feeling, I know what I
can do, thank you, I know I wasresistant before, but here we
(08:28):
are and I don't feel as lost andFar West Division, where we,
casey and I, were initiallystarting this off.
In our division we had somepatrols already established,
some that were crawling.
For those that know that I workin the ER, I'm used to this.
All right, hurry up, let's gomove to the next.
All right, and I'm not verygood at the long term.
(08:51):
Shelly had to keep talking tome but Far West they had was
approached by many patrols andthey just ran with it without an
incident.
They just got it.
Well, they were asking for it,they ran with it and we're like
whoa, okay.
So it just.
It varies, but the more youknow now gets you into the point
(09:12):
of when something might happen.
If that helps a little bit.
You guys were
Dr Shannon Meyer (09:17):
May I add to that just for one second, Jodie?
One of the really importantthings to understand about PTSD
and traumatic stress injuriesalso is it's not the bad
incident that's going to tip youover.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it'sthe worst thing you've ever
freaking seen.
But many times the people whoend up being injured
(09:37):
psychologically injured, and whoneed to, who are injured to the
extent that they can't just getback to work, who need some
higher level of care, it's somebull right, it's some stupid
little event that has enoughmeaning.
There's been enough stress andtrauma accumulated that it's
(10:00):
some ridiculous thing thatreally tips them over.
Which is another reason whyit's really nice not to depend
on a major incident to get aprogram started.
Because, again, we talk a lot onthis stage amongst ourselves
about moral injury and that'sone of the four really primary
(10:23):
pathways to the development ofpost-traumatic stress disorder
and other traumatic stressinjuries.
But that has to do with ouradministration, not politically,
but it can also.
But in terms of who's runningski patrol.
Do they understand?
Are they supporting us?
So, again, our most significantpsychological injuries do they
(10:47):
come from?
The really hard kid calls youbetcha, but it's really
important to understand thatit's all of the other stuff too
that can really mess us up.
Jodie (11:02):
That can really mess us up.
Thank you, we got Casey overhere and then Joseph is going to
have a return visit with us, sothose of you who have been here
for a while will know what thatmeans.
Speaker 9 (11:16):
Hey, thanks, panel.
I have two questions, and thefirst one is how do we transcend
this job literacy to ourfriends and family in a
non-traumatizing way?
Obviously, some of the thingsthat we experience are
confidential and other thingsare not worth resharing in all
of their traumatic nature.
(11:37):
So how do we build thatliteracy at home?
And then second question is howdo we support friends and
family, bystanders, evenpatients at the scene, in a
meaningful way?
Eric Tung (11:52):
yeah, if I can uh go on the first question, I think
and it kind of ties in with thisgentleman's question before too
like I'll I'll say real quickthere are people, there are
agencies that have sufferedterrible casualties, that don't
have wellness programs, likethey have not responded
effectively, retroactively, butthen there's also plenty of
organizations that see somethingthat happens like over there,
(12:12):
or almost happen, and that'sthose are the contingency
planners, those are theproactive thinkers and leaders
at all levels.
So you might respond to a thingYou're like oh man, this could
this, this is okay, this couldhave been really bad if this,
this, this, this would happen.
And you debrief it and you,after action, you talk about it.
And so that ties in with yourfirst question, sir, where it's
just the in all theconversations I've had and what
(12:34):
I recognize in my ownrelationship or relationships
and those close to me and thosethat are shared from all
perspectives, is you talk aboutit before.
Or if some conversations wentnot so great, like myself
specifically telling about acall that I just it was just so
crazy, I just had to tellsomeone and it was my wife,
(12:55):
unfortunately for her and whenshe heard it, her shock and awe
and all the color left her faceand I was like too far right,
like okay, note to self, don'tdo that again, don't talk about
that extremely traumatic injury.
However, a lot of people whatI've found or shared about is
like a lot of people.
(13:18):
What I've found or shared aboutis like find what where your,
your person, or your your yourolder kid, or where your mom or
whoever where your person is at.
Some people are naturally veryinquisitive, which doesn't mean
you're naturally very open, butjust to know where you're at and
know where your person's at,and then find the middle ground
and that could be tools.
Like you've had a day.
You don't want to talk about it, but you want your person to
(13:39):
know that you've had a day.
And so you're like, hey, I'mcoming in like a three, just
need some space, right.
And then that way, since youtalked about it, then it's not a
personal thing, you're not mad,it's not the thing.
You take the dog, you don'teven go inside the house, you
walk around the block and youcome back.
You're like, maybe talk aboutthis one tomorrow, and then you
just know, right.
And so you build in theselittle codes and cues so that
(13:59):
it's not a surprise.
Dr Shannon Meyer (14:01):
It's super important to have these
conversations up front, becausewhat our kids and our wives and
husbands do is assume that thedistance or the iciness or the
eggshells are about them andit's not.
And so, finding out, what doyou want to hear?
Do you want to hear the bloodand gore?
Or do I just come home and sayit was a really sad day, this
(14:26):
was a really hard one and that'sall you can tolerate?
So, again, having those kinds ofconversations upfront and
understanding what you need andwhat your partner needs, and
because, if you need somethingthat your partner can't tolerate
, if you need to talk about itin all of its glory, right,
which I know exactly the kind Isuspect that I know what kind of
(14:49):
call you're talking about orwhat kind of shift you're
talking about.
Well, if your partner can'ttolerate that, for whatever
reason, that's okay.
But who can and who do you geton the horn with and be like
dude?
It was and this was, like youcan't believe what happened.
So, again, knowing what youneed is first asking your
(15:12):
partner or your kids or yourfriends what are their limits
and just negotiating that I'mgoing to jump in.
Kristin Cox (15:22):
There's a great resource if you're into taking a
look at more in-depth stuff.
Kevin Gilmartin is a guy out of.
He's a law enforcement officer,retired out of Oregon, I
believe, arizona, oh, arizona,kevin Gilmartin.
He's written a couple things.
One of them was emotionalsurvival for law enforcement,
(15:43):
but it's really just for firstresponders.
Highly recommend him.
And the other thing to yoursecond question I'd recommend
considering something calledtactical empathy, which is
essentially psychological firstaid.
It's being present with peoplewhile holding your own and kind
of holding that emotionalregulation for yourself and not
(16:03):
getting swept away.
It's applying, it's beingempathetic, but it's not doing
it in a way that's going to takeyou down with them or have you
swept away as well.
Jodie (16:13):
Thank you, all right, so can you hold one second?
Okay, we're going to take a.
We've talked about our lots ofdifferent things, but one of the
other things that was mentionedvery early on was a little bit
about our own fitness.
You guys have been sitting fora bit.
Joseph, for those that remember, has been leading us the last
(16:34):
several years of doing this, sowe're going to have you all
stand up, and our panel iswelcome to.
Just don't fall off the back tocome along.
The dogs can participate too,and Joseph, take it away.
While you won't be able to seewhat's happening over the next
(16:54):
few minutes, you will hear abrief moment that truly captures
the energy that was in the room.
Picture yourself in theaudience as joseph rar, our
outdoor risk management advisor,leads us through a fun,
light-hearted stretch session,mixing fitness, laughter and a
show of support for our formerdivision director, shelly Urban,
(17:15):
as she prepares for her run inthe next month's NSP Board of
Directors election.
Feel free to pause the audioand stretch along with us, and
then we'll resume our keynote,all right?
Joseph Ferraro (17:29):
first off, we've got to have a little bit of
that.
Who are you going to vote for?
Huh, who are you going to votefor?
Shelly.
Vote for Shelly.
Vote for Shelley.
Vote for Shelley.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Vote for Shelley Vote for.
Joseph Ferraro (17:39):
Shelley, don't forget that.
Vote for Shelley.
Ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
To get warmed up a little bit,make some space.
Everybody's going to have alittle space.
Jodie (17:52):
And you can join in too.
Joseph Ferraro (17:57):
Come back to center, namaste.
Side to stretch
Jodie (18:05):
All right.
.
So this is also important, youknow, at your morning meeting,
the afternoon lunch, et cetera.
Brad, take it away.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
Thanks a lot.
That feels much better.
So jody, as everyone knows, hasbeen our duck and we've been on
her back and we've all beenlearning about all these
emotional you know, supportprograms and everything.
And I feel like a lot of us, ormy observation is that a lot of
patrols are going from thelearning phase into the cultural
(18:36):
phase or socialization phase.
What recommendations do youhave or tips or tricks on
turning these programs fromtraining programs to this is
what we do.
Eric Tung (18:58):
I think it's identifying the people that are,
you know, you're, passionatefolks that are willing to be all
the boots on the ground,proverbially like all in these
little subgroups, to be theperson that introduces things
right.
It doesn't have to be thesupervisor or the lead, but it's
literally like when we talkabout peer support, we do have,
you know, our peer support,trained people in our industries
, but also it's just like thisculture of peer support, and so
(19:18):
sometimes, like the ones thatstuck out to me the most are
literally the.
It's the guy or gal who's justlike, yeah, that was ***up.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Doc said it first so.
Eric Tung (19:28):
I'm allowed now.
If you waited this long for acop to swear, then we win.
For a cop to swear, then we win.
Um, but it's truly like it'sthe, you know it's the, it's the
veteran officer.
For us that's like, hey, thatthat call was really messed up.
And then that is that opens up,it allows that space and that
place for people to agree and belike okay, it wasn't just me.
(19:48):
You may have a lot of wordsshared, a lot of like kind of
experiences shared, or you maynot.
So that's just like an examplefor peer support.
So hopefully that answers yourquestions of just like helping
identify those things and evenhaving maybe seeing if that
person's willing to share.
Outside of that, becausethey've already stepped up,
they've already demonstratedthemselves in that way.
Kristin Cox (20:07):
I'm going to jump in.
I agree with that, and I thinkit's about somebody and it
doesn't even have to be the mostimpacted person but somebody
who's willing to say thatthey're going to be a little bit
vulnerable.
And by vulnerable I do not meancompletely psychologically
getting naked in front ofsomeone else, that's not what I
mean.
I mean just saying yeah, thatwas intense, right, and that
(20:31):
kind of starts the conversation.
Or even to say to come in, youknow in to a regular meeting,
not even an event itself, but tosay I got a lot of shit going
on right now.
I am not at my best, so youguys have my back right and just
let people know that you arehuman.
That again gives permission tosomeone else that again gives
(20:55):
permission to someone else.
Doug McCall (20:56):
Yeah, I would say, you know, kind of setting up the
normalization is important andwe've been able to.
We started with a building a fewyears ago and after every
mission now we come back to that, to the building, and
(21:17):
especially if it's a, you know,actually every mission we come
back and we'll either do ainternal debrief and grab snacks
, grab pizza, you know, andwe've we've actually budgeted
specific funds for resilience sothat after missions we'll come
back and order pizza, and thenwe have a resilience team.
(21:38):
So we've got I don't know, Ithink it's, I'll say a handful
of people on the team that ifit's a specifically intense
incident recovery of our friendswe do that more frequently than
not then we'll have thosemembers on the resilience team
(21:59):
will end up reaching out to thepeople who are on that mission.
And so the setting up a way Idon't know how it works in the
ski patrol space, but myassumption is there's like a
patrol room and you know, ifthere's some incident, you know
you come back, you debrief alittle bit after the incident
(22:22):
and you get a chance to shareand just setting up that, just
that normalization.
This is just what we do.
I'm going to jump in on thatnormalization, what, what eric
said?
Raquel Lackey (22:33):
we found that bringing in the Hope Dogs
originally the Hope Dogs werebrought in during an incident
and then it got to a point of,oh shit, the Hope Dogs are here,
something must be going on.
What aren't they telling me?
And so, like Eric brought up,we started doing fun with the
Hope Dogs.
Right, it wasn't a bad incident, even visiting the 911 dispatch
(22:57):
for Seattle Fire.
So, having that ability tobuild those relationships and
trust before that incidenthappens and not having the dogs
then be a trigger, because wedon't know what's going to
trigger each and every one of uson a specific day, I might be
able to be able to handle thatparticular call on Monday, but
(23:21):
by Friday I'm at my wits end.
And building up thoserelationships with your
teammates of them to be able togo hmm, she's a little bit off,
or me being able to say I'm alittle bit crunchy today I need
some extra TLC, just normalizingthose types of relationships
(23:43):
and making it so.
We're on SMR in particular, ifI text or call one of the
teammates, they know it's notthat.
Oh, I think that they'rehurting or they need me.
It's just that.
Wow, someone really caresenough to reach out and actually
kind of see me.
Jodie (24:03):
And really want to expand on this just a little bit more.
Obviously, we're just at the100,000 foot level.
Trying to go over this, tryingto get into it.
We've talked about things thatwere critical.
We've also talked about thingsof the day-to-day and what
people are saying.
Try to also always keep in mindyour foundation, your
(24:25):
foundation level that isaffecting all of us, before we
go.
It's our relationships, ourfinances, our work life.
It's world events, local events.
You're just having a bad day.
One person was raised over inthis area, another person was
raised over here and havetotally different mindsets of
how to talk to someone, not totalk to someone, different
(24:47):
exposures that you know nothingabout.
And this is where it's crucialthat we start to get to know
each other more.
It's not just on the roster orchecking you off.
Get to know.
How are you going to know whensomeone is a little bit off?
What have you worked on to say,hey, I need some time just to
(25:08):
spend with somebody?
Whether it's just watching theweather, whether you're just
taking a stroll, it doesn'tmatter.
But you've also got torecognize that.
I give my example.
And he left the room.
God, jack, jack's gone, isn'the Okay?
So last year for those thatwere here, you remember that we
(25:30):
had to change our hotel venuefive days before.
Okay had a little bit of funstress with that, but actually
it went really well.
Just trying to go in and I wasin charge of the programs and
stuff and I'm thinking, okay,life is good, et cetera.
We got this, we're goingthrough this, and then my
brother calls me the nightbefore I come down and he says
goodbye, he's dying of cancer.
(25:51):
So I realized that you know, Iwas coming across a little
crabby and it was jack to thankme for that, because he comes up
, he was with murph and jack inthe elevator and I can't
remember what the conversationwas and I was just like I just
(26:12):
need to get some stuff done andI don't know what I said.
But jack at me, he goes.
That was a little terse, that'sall he said.
And it was my wake up call ofsaying holy crap, yep, and I do
this every month with you guys.
I live this, I breathe this atwork, et cetera.
(26:33):
And I was in my own little fog,and so you have to recognize
that as well, that it can happen.
And going up to someone just tosay, hey, you know what's up, or
et cetera, or hey, what's youknow.
Can you show me this?
Just get them into where yousort of clear up?
The other thing is has anybodyheard of Simon Sinatek If I'm
(26:56):
pronouncing his name right, okay, he's the one that gave the
example of some of you haveheard me use this example of.
He had a friend who's goingthrough a rough time and the
friend had reached out to himand said you know, I was really
getting in a dark place.
And well, why didn't you tellme, you know, why didn't you
(27:17):
talk to me about it?
And the person said I did.
I texted you and he grabbed thephone.
He's like what do you mean?
I'm looking at the phone.
This is hey, you want to havecoffee.
So it for that person.
That was his reach out.
What they realized is that, hey,you know what, we need to come
up with something.
And they came up with.
(27:38):
And it doesn't matter what, butfor them they came up with.
If I text you, do you haveeight minutes?
You have eight minutes to goget out of a meeting.
You have eight minutes to maybegive you a call back.
But that was sort of it's not a9-1-1, but it was hey, really
would like to reach out to you,and so it's not assumed, okay.
So these are some otherexamples.
(28:00):
We are winding down guys, butI'd love to do this the whole
day and you know I would if Icould, but we have seven minutes
.
So who's got some questions andto to wrap up here, so we got
here.
Speaker 12 (28:13):
One, two, three, a real quick one.
Do you ever do a joint?
Yeah, sorry, I'll just makethis real brief.
So by definition, we all mustcompartmentalize this stuff in
the moment, right, whether it'smedicine, rescue, whatever.
(28:33):
Do you guys have any tips onhow to, if you will, balance
putting it away and just doingyour job and then just dealing
with that and then coming back?
Kristin Cox (28:46):
Yes, if I had a dollar for every time somebody
told me I just compartmentalize,I would never have to work
again.
Compartmentalizing is good onscene Knowing how to unpack that
and how to balance it.
Your nervous system was nevermeant to be in dominant,
sympathetic nervous.
You have to learn how to toggleback and forth and give your
(29:09):
nervous system time to rebalance.
What works aboutcompartmentalizing is it allows
you to stay focused and clearwhile you're on scene.
What doesn't work aboutcompartmentalizing is it mutes
all your reactions, yourresponses, your emotions, and so
eventually you're not able totake your finger off the mute
button anymore and you have norange of emotions and your
(29:33):
family and friends notice that.
They're like where are you?
Hello, right.
And when you don't manage thatin a structured way to unpack
what you've compartmentalized,what ends up happening is has
anybody ever tried to clean outa garage?
That's been too long.
We do that about every threemonths at our house.
(29:56):
It is ugly and your whole lifecan.
Basically, it kind of implodes.
It either implodes or itexplodes, and so learning how to
do that is a skill set, andpart of that is starting to pay
attention to your internallandscape, your internal
situational awareness and listento what your body is telling
(30:23):
you.
Dr Shannon Meyer (30:23):
I would say also that, like garages, when
you have the tendency to putsomething in a box and shove it
away, eventually that spaceloses space and the boxes come
tumbling out.
So that's one of the problems,One of the pieces that I think
is worth.
Not everything needs to beprocessed equally.
End of story.
Right, Not everything is likeneeds to be psychodrama, but are
there boxes and compartmentsthat you have internally that
(30:47):
you worry about?
If you open the lid, what willcome spilling out and will it
ever stop?
That's your signal that there'smore to process and you've got
some very important processingto do.
Take me with a grain of salt.
I'm a psychologist, so I thinktherapy works very well If you
can find the right person, andit's a good match.
(31:09):
But one of the ways to screenthat stuff that we've
compartmentalized is howworrisome is it to
uncompartmentalize it?
Speaker 12 (31:22):
Does it make sense to ever have joint agency
debriefing?
Raquel Lackey (31:31):
Those are my favorite.
Kristin Cox (31:40):
Hell yes, if you do it carefully and you pay
attention so you're notaccidentally cross-traumatizing
people.
There are sometimes that thereare things that not everybody
needs to know everything becauseit adds to their burden and
maybe they're not equipped tokeep that in the
compartmentalized box right.
So being careful about that andthen making sure that you know
(32:00):
in those agencies what theirnorm is, so that you're not kind
of willy-nilly putting a bunchof people together that have
different ideas of what adebriefing might look like, and
I would also say along thoselines, it's a really good idea
to try and do mutual aidtraining with other agencies and
attend other things.
(32:21):
And to that end I'm carefullygoing to let you know Seattle
Fire is doing a free three-dayintensive mindful performance
class the 25th, 26th and 27th ofAugust.
It includes a mountain hike.
It's free and we have somespace available.
If anybody's interested, pleasecontact me and I'll make sure
(32:41):
you guys have my contact info.
We'd love to have you.
Oh, awesome, great.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Yeah, so mine kind of came around what you guys were
just starting to talk about.
But you all have establishedprograms right now and obviously
hope looks like touches all ofthem as well.
But how much now that you havean established program, how much
do you interact with each otherto go, hey, what are you doing
now?
Have you started something elseto expand your own programs and
(33:16):
make sure everyone's kind ofgetting what they need?
Kristin Cox (33:20):
I've done this kind of work for over 30 years.
You cannot do this work in avacuum.
You cannot do this work in avacuum.
My master's is inorganizational psychology.
I'm not a clinical person, andone of the things we know when
there's organizations that aresteeped in trauma, that are
encountering trauma all the time, is you have a tendency to kind
of go tunnel vision and thinkthat you're the only ones, and
(33:42):
it's really important to be ableto look around and be like oh,
everybody else is going throughthis shit too.
We're not the only one for thepanel.
Speaker 9 (34:02):
What, what three things, would you recommend
actions to take following atragic event?
Eric Tung (34:04):
three things, immediately after a tragic event
, to support your team, eitherin the presence or absence of a
resiliency program I think myfirst thing would go in in line
with the last question, which islike should you or one of the
prior questions, like should youco-op your agencies?
And I would say it depends, butlike what are the priorities?
(34:24):
So, identify the priorities.
And so, like your question, Ithink the first thing is like
identify the priorities.
The second thing, I think, foranyone, is to recognize like
it's about others, like we dothis job, because it's about
others, but it starts with usand there's a lot of ways you
could apply that philosophically, but I think that's just to go
on the cliche, like you can'tyou know you can't put someone
(34:44):
else's oxygen mask on beforethem before you do it for
yourself or you're in a badsituation.
And then, third, just realizeit's like the small steps.
You identify the priorities.
There's big rocks, there'slittle rocks and you start kind
of chipping away to them slowlyand then know that you're not on
an island.
There's a huge group of peoplehere today that care deeply
about performance and wellness,and there are a lot of people
(35:06):
that are a lot more behind thescenes, under the radar, but
they are there too.
A lot of people just need anudge and a job to do.
Raquel Lackey (35:16):
I think you've got to remember what's a
traumatic event for you.
Casey might not be for me right, and so it might be some big
hairy thing.
So the three things I can'ttell you, three things that's
going to work for you and mesimultaneous, but I would urge
the people, like jody, that fillthe role in ski patrol, pick up
(35:38):
the phone, say hello, I wouldsay self-assessment three times.
Dr Shannon Meyer (35:47):
And so where are you?
How are you?
Are your, are you givingyourself?
I always say after a majorincident, even after minor ones,
treat yourself like you havethe flu.
So don't plan to do extra hardlifting or running.
Don't expect to be on top ofyour game, expect to be more
tired.
So really figuring out, wheream I about this?
(36:10):
Don't expect yourself to be ontop of your game and understand
that the processes we're talkingabout are largely biological in
nature.
So when our nervous system isdysregulated and maxed out, we
often lack control overharnessing it again.
(36:31):
Right?
So I could talk for a long timeas a clinician, so I'll stop
now, but that would be a coupleof things.
Jodie (36:38):
So just wanted to thank everybody.
I am getting the hook in aworst way here and I have to let
them go.
But I ask one favor.
Well, actually I'm going to askmany.
All right, number one pleasedon't leave these on the table.
If you don't want them, that'sfine, but take it back to a
(36:59):
patrol member.
Take it back to somebody else.
Same thing with the cards.
You don't want it, that's fine,there's no problem with that,
but let's not leave them here.
Let's take the whole thing ofthe stuff that you were given in
your bags.
You don't want it.
Give it to someone on thepatrol.
All right, Encourage this.
We want to keep this going.
(37:19):
All right, A huge thank you toour panel, please.
This concludes our second halfof the keynote panel discussion
and really again appreciateeveryone's participation, from
the panel members, the Hope Dogteams and all that attended.
We hope that you foundinspiration in the strategies
(37:40):
shared by our incrediblepanelists, their experiences and
real-world wisdom.
Let's continue the conversationaround wellness, resilience and
innovation within our own lives, our patrols and the areas we
serve.
Remember, taking care of othersstarts with taking care of
ourselves first and each other.
Let's stay connected and keepleading the change.
(38:02):
If you want to learn more,please see the attached links in
the podcast description, aswell as the PNWD website, that
is wwwnsp-pnwd.
org.
At the top, select Safety andthen Safety Culture for All for
more information.
For now, this has beenPatroller Chats.
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