Continuing with Steve Rolfe Part 2:2. Also joining in...Gary Burke and Shirley Cummings. Listen to veteran ski patrollers share stories that trace the evolution of ski patrol from the 1950s through present day, revealing how regional differences, equipment innovations, and standardization efforts shaped modern mountain rescue systems.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jodie (00:00):
So, Shirley, you've been awfully quiet down there,
Curious.
What stories can you tell usabout Steve?
Shirley Cummings (00:11):
Oh goodness.
Jodie (00:16):
We know about your boots.
Steve Rolfe (00:21):
I'll tell one more story, because this is really
the first day that I was at Hyakand I passed the tobogganing
exam.
Now, in those days I was askinny guy, I weighed 132 pounds
and somebody asked if BillMcNally and surely we'll
(00:58):
remember Bill McNally he had atoboggan full of equipment and
he said someone want to help metake this down?
And I said I do.
You know, I mean I do, andSandy March looks at McNally was
this huge guy, didn't ski verywell, but in the handles of a
toboggan, you know he could leanon the toboggan going down the
hill and it was okay anyway.
So he is full of equipment.
I'm on the rope, a very longrope, and he's not doing very
well.
And this is I.
(01:19):
Somehow the rope goes slack, Iski over the rope and at that
point it goes tight again andI'm launched.
I do a full flip and I'm sure Icame out of my skis and it
irritated the hell out of mebecause I was trying to keep up
with him.
(01:40):
First day, this is the firstday that, after I mean the day I
passed my exam anyway and I, Ilook up and I'm I'm not angry at
him, I'm just frustrated and Igo and I, the audacity of me.
I said, bill, get out of here,I'm taking the toboggan.
I took it down all by myself.
The being on the tail rope wasjust on his tail rope.
(02:00):
He's going all over the placeand getting whipped around, I
said, and I took it down all bymyself.
From that day forward, I wasnever afraid of a toboggan.
Jodie (02:08):
Interesting.
What kind of toboggan was that?
Steve Rolfe (02:11):
Oh, I think probably a Sun Valley.
Murphy (02:14):
Is that like a Cascade 100 kind of thing?
Steve Rolfe (02:17):
Yeah, cascade 100, only it weighs three times as
much.
Oh, they're terrible.
It might have been a C acascade, but it was definitely
one of those with a tail ropeanyway, and uh and it you know
for all of this, if you get on asteep slope with the toboggan.
It can be intimidating and I wasnever.
I always had the confidencethat I could manage.
(02:40):
Um, and I think it comesexactly from that silly story
where I said, phil, get out ofhere this 17-year-old kid.
The audacity of me saying thatI can't how disrespectful.
You know, I didn't know better.
Murphy (02:57):
So when you were at Crystal, did they, when did they
bring on those four-handlesleds which were affectionately
known as crystal sleds for years?
Jodie (03:10):
Akias right.
Murphy (03:11):
No no.
Steve Rolfe (03:11):
Well, so it's modeled after the Akias Okay
Talbot.
Murphy (03:18):
Wasn't there a boat builder that built some of those
Shirley and?
Steve Rolfe (03:20):
I had this conversation, but there was a
fellow Talbert, and I'm not sureif it was Larry Lundstrom.
There could have been In thefirst year, at Crystal Mountain,
some of the arrogance of thefounders.
They said, oh, we want to bethe Sun Valley of Washington
State, and so they tried in someways they tried to emulate it
(03:41):
and one of the things is tobring the Sun Valley toboggans,
which, if you skied at SunValley, makes sense.
They still use those things.
It kind of makes sense becauseyou can go straight downhill
most everywhere at Sun Valley,but Crystal Mountain you can't
go, especially before grooming.
You could not go straightdownhill anywhere.
(04:03):
There was many places where youhad to do traverses and the sun
valley toboggan was beyonddangerous, it was nearly
impossible.
So, uh, I believe it was thesecond year, but within a year
or two, uh, they commissioned abuilding, uh, the clark boat
company, the Clark Boat Company,which the company that made the
Sea Lark sailboat, to build theCrystal Toboggan and I believe
(04:32):
that Cascade Toboggan owned byBradley.
Bradley, bob, I just talkedwith Bob.
No, Anyway, bradley, his fatherdesigned it, started
manufacturing and had the rightsto it.
When was that?
Well, so this would have beenin 63, 64 when the crystal
(04:55):
toboggan was invented, and ifyou ski in a every once in a
while I'm skiing down Lucky Shotand I remember and there's
little tiny moguls and I go andI have to laugh at myself.
The moguls used to be the sizeof Volkswagen's and I'm not
(05:16):
exaggerating, and you'd have tojam the toboggan into it on the
front side and then you'd liftit up on the backside so that
the person in the back of thetoboggan didn't get lifted off
the ground.
And they were.
You couldn't have the Cascade100s in Sun Valley, but you
(05:40):
couldn't.
They were unworkable.
But now, because of grooming,the two-handle toboggans are
probably have many advantages.
Murphy (05:52):
They do.
I still love those four-handles, though I keep being a big
promoter.
We at Crystal this year woundup doing our refresher and we
brought everybody through andhad them use four handle
toboggans.
Get reacquainted with them,cause there's a lot of places
where you're talking about, youknow, steep stuff, things where
you need that, uh, a solid rearhandle, that four handle comes
(06:17):
in handy.
Steve Rolfe (06:18):
Yeah, when it comes to traversing, I don't, you
know the the flat toboggansdon't traverse as well, and so
there are certainly places inthe backcountry.
If you can get to thebackcountry into the accident by
mostly going straight downhill,then the flat toboggan, has you
(06:38):
know, is as good as anythingelse.
But if you're in reallydifficult terrain, I think
two-handle toboggans have someadvantage.
Murphy (06:46):
Yeah, most of our remote sleds are those four handles.
Shirley Cummings (06:50):
Steve, talk about hand-carrying the toboggan
uphill without a chair carrier.
Murphy (06:56):
Oh, lap-loading.
Steve Rolfe (06:58):
Until a few years, we used to put the toboggans on
our lap and carry them up, andthat worked fine.
The Crystal and the Cascade100s, you know, they're not that
heavy.
One day, Wally and I decided totake a Sun Valley up on our
laps, and this was the shortchair at Hyak, and we almost
(07:25):
were unable to get off the liftby the.
By the time we got to the topthe blood had stopped, you know,
flowing to our legs cause theywere so heavy.
Yeah, and we carried them uplike that until somebody dropped
one um at Stevens pass on aguest.
Murphy (07:44):
On a guest.
Steve Rolfe (07:45):
Yeah, that didn't go well.
Jodie (07:47):
No, you think.
Murphy (07:49):
No, yeah Well, you know I've only been patrolling for 10
, 11 years I think, and you knowI'm lap loaded at Central.
So Kwame Central.
So you know that's notcompletely banned.
We may be banned now, but Well,I'm certain that it's a.
Steve Rolfe (08:10):
That's an area policy.
Yeah, maybe the NSP has anopinion on this, but I'm not
sure that it that's area policy.
Murphy (08:20):
Yeah, I can tell you they don't allow it at Crystal.
That's a huge no-no.
Especially with the wind comingover the top, you'd get a hold
of that thing that would not befun.
Steve Rolfe (08:31):
Things can go wrong , yeah.
Murphy (08:32):
Yeah, very quickly.
Shirley Cummings (08:33):
Steve, were you at Hyak when the Hidden
Valley chair?
We had to tie it that and thepatient to the chair and bring
them up the mountain.
Steve Rolfe (08:44):
Yeah, I skied there .
Yeah Right, I don't remember.
You know it's interesting, Iremember, but I don't remember
actually having to take apatient up the chair.
Shirley Cummings (08:56):
Oh, I hated that.
You know you had to rememberhow many loops to go around the
chair and the patient had to belevel and they couldn't be.
You tested them and the patientstarts talking about not
wanting to go down the mountainon a chairlift.
Steve Rolfe (09:12):
And oh geez, it was well, we we at crystal we had.
We practiced putting loadedtoboggans on chair three and
carrying them up, becausethere's times of the year that
you can't go down Kelly's Gap,and so we would practice that,
and I'm pretty sure that atleast one or two patients in the
(09:32):
history of Crystal have donethat.
But we would avoid it,certainly try to avoid it, if we
could.
Shirley Cummings (09:38):
Well, that's, you were coming up over the lip
at Hyak and then you'd startdown the hill.
That was the worst time forthem and consequently for the
whichever patroller was ridingwith them.
Steve Rolfe (09:54):
Going down a chairlift is a little more
intimidating than going up.
Shirley Cummings (10:00):
Especially if you're lying on your back
strapped in.
Yeah, so what do you rememberabout the national system and
what was going on around then asa patrol director?
You remember getting help fromnational or paying too much or
(10:23):
not paying enough national orpaying too much or not paying
enough, or how were theytreating the senior exam around
that time?
Can you repeat that?
One last sentence how were theytreating the senior exam?
Was that being discussed?
Steve Rolfe (10:43):
whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, or
let's get rid of it, or oh.
I don't remember that debate.
I do remember and I don't knowif this is contemporaneous with
(11:10):
me being director, but I was inleadership for auted some
workshops for the first timethat were transcended.
That were regional workshops.
The criticism, I think, wasthat individual patrollers
coming from what eight or ninedifferent patrols had all
trained differently and didn'tknow exactly what was expected
of them.
As a senior, I was fortunate tohave a very good training
(11:35):
program at Hyak when I became asenior and I thought we had a
pretty good program at Crystal.
I think I led that at one point, but for a short few years, but
I could understand that therewas a lot of controversy.
Jodie (11:49):
People would go oh yeah, I didn't do it.
Steve Rolfe (11:50):
And so Lori said, okay, well, we're going to have
these workshops, so you can comeand we make two or three or
four of these things and we'llshow you what we expect of a
senior, what we expect of asenior and I'm probably a
(12:13):
minority here, as much as I loveLori and tremendous respect for
her.
I thought it usurped theresponsibility of the individual
patrols for training theirpatrollers, but that's the way
it's done now, right, seniormuch, much of senior training is
now done at the regional level.
Shirley Cummings (12:33):
I don't think so.
I mean at least not at the pass.
At the pass you might gettogether with the other areas,
but it's basically somebody onyour patrol trains you and you
go take the test.
Murphy (12:47):
Well, yeah, you're missing, there's two.
You have to take a midterm anda final right.
So you've got to go to thosecalibration clinic as an
instructor initially, and thenyou go back and train your guys
and gals and then, when you comeup to the midterm, everybody
from all the areas that'senrolled in the senior program
(13:09):
gets calibrated on what toexpect.
So you do your ski portion,then you do your unloaded
toboggan, loaded toboggan, andeverybody gets reviewed, and
then you get sent back to yourmountain where you do more
training and then the finalcomes and you wind up having or
sorry, there's two midterms andthen a final.
(13:31):
So, like we had one at um, uh,mount Baker no, where do we have
that?
There was two this year andeverybody gets together and they
uh, you know, showcase whatthey're doing.
Steve Rolfe (13:46):
People who are in the program.
The history of the program isinteresting and I think that
sometimes the goals get a littleconfused.
The original senior exam wasreally the national exam and
that changed in the late 50s,early 60s.
What do you?
Jodie (14:03):
mean the national exam.
Steve Rolfe (14:05):
So in the original ski patrol as Minidoll created
it and then as it emerged, thepatrol was independent of the
ski area.
Patrol came in and signed onand national patrollers were
patrollers that were skilledenough that they could patrol
anywhere and there was anational exam.
(14:26):
Now by the mid-50s I don't knowthe exact history, but I know a
few people who, well, theyprobably passed by now, but they
got their nationals through anexam, not by an appointment.
Gary will remember all this.
But then senior was created asa skill, as a national became an
(14:50):
honor and I got lost a littlebit on this.
But so some of this is the ideathat a senior could patrol at
any ski area within their regionor division.
That was somewhat of adefinition of what a senior was
in the old days and I alwaysthought that that was really not
(15:11):
.
You know, you patrol for yourski area.
There ought to be a common setof skills that you have.
But being able to when I was anew patroller I could walk down
any ski area in the region.
I could walk up and they'd say,sure, go out and patrol.
Now that doesn't happen anymore.
That was somewhat that was partof the mission of being a senior
(15:34):
?
I don't.
It certainly, it certainlyshouldn't be today.
I think being a senior is it'sjust the opportunity to become a
much more excellent patrollerand to fully understand your
area, your area's protocols,which are going to be different.
Crystal's protocols aredifferent than Snoqualmie, and
(15:54):
for any number of reasons.
But to be a senior you ought toknow all the protocols for your
area, and including some thatare completely different than
another area, and that I'msomewhat of a minority in this,
I think, and so to me all theneeds at Snoqualmie and not be
(16:32):
able to ski chair six at CrystalMountain, but you have the
qualities of a senior to me.
So, anyway, that's my politicson the issue.
Murphy (16:45):
Well, jack Ramsey, who has been the senior OET for the
division.
He was there for the region forquite a while.
One of his criteria is that asa senior you should be able to
ski any run within the region ordivision.
So let's just use this as aregion and I have to say I back
(17:08):
that theory and that when you'reskiing you should be able to
hit that run.
Now, whether you're atSuquamish, where I was, and go
to Crystal, when you're testingyou're testing at Mount Baker,
you're testing at CrystalMountain or Alpintal those
usually three places wheresenior tests happen.
Those are all fairly, you know,technically challenging
(17:31):
mountains and you've got to beable to manage that Does
everybody pass.
Steve Rolfe (17:36):
That's an old trope to me.
I think it's insulting to thepeople that that that that areas
like Snoqualmie summit, theidea that that if you ski at
Snoqualmie summit and you can beyou can be an exceptional
patroller but not be able totake a toboggan down powder bowl
.
I don't think that that shouldbe the requirement, but that's
(17:58):
my opinion.
I think that there are a set ofcommon skills, but I just don't
think that it should berequired to be able to ski every
run at every ski area in yourregion, because you don't ski at
a patrollers, only ski at theirown area.
There's no, you don't get toski at another area anymore.
(18:21):
That's long gone.
Murphy (18:22):
Right, yeah, that's true , that's my opinion, and you got
to look pretty doing it.
That's the big thing.
Yeah, when you're hauling atoboggan, or you got to do your
school figures or anything else.
You have to look pretty whileyou're doing it Not physically
pretty, but you have to.
You have to execute, whateverthe skill is, and you've got to
look good doing it Right, andyou've got to ski well.
(18:42):
So that is what you have to beable to do.
So we've got Gary.
We've got Gary here.
Gary Burke (18:49):
How are you?
Sorry, I'm so late.
Murphy (18:52):
You're fine.
I've got a huge list in frontof me.
The list from Gary.
It's three pages.
It is absolutely amazing.
So I, uh, I have to say that Ilooked here and it said join,
join, stevens, pass Ski Patrolor Junior Classification in 1953
(19:13):
.
Is that true?
Jodie (19:15):
Yeah.
Murphy (19:17):
Wow, so how long were you actually on the patrol?
Gary Burke (19:22):
Well, I started off at Stevens with Harry Prezan
Lloyd Burkeye at that time.
I'm sure Steve remembers thosenames.
Steve, how are you doing, buddy?
Steve Rolfe (19:32):
I am doing great, and he walked 10 feet tall when
I was a 17-year-old kid.
You probably were only in your30s, but I thought you were.
I mean, you were old.
Yeah, you were old.
You know a guy who's 30, sorry,you're 17,.
(19:55):
But Lloyd Burkeye and HarryPrusam, those are big names in
the ski patrol history.
Jodie (20:01):
Yeah.
Gary Burke (20:02):
Those are the days when those guys actually walked
on water.
The reason I actually got intothe ski patrol, which is kind of
interesting my folks built theski lodge at Stevens Pass back
in 1951.
And my uncle was the supervisorfor Washington State Highways
(20:29):
and lived up at Stevens Pass andwe used to come up there and
visit him back in those days.
And the Forest Service decidedthat they wanted to build
another ski lodge, only theywanted it over on the opposite
side of the highway for those ofyou that remember which was the
side where the big long highwaygarage was, that they kept all
(20:53):
of the highway equipment in.
Well, at the opposite end ofthat there was an area that was
opened up by the Forest Serviceand they wanted to make it
commercial.
So they decided well, let mebuild a ski lodge and we'll open
it up and see who might beinterested.
And we'll open it up and seewho might be interested.
Well, at that time we hadSportcaster going on and of
(21:16):
course my father wanted to getinto something else and decided,
in conjunction with my uncle,that hey, why don't we put a bid
in for that thing and see if wecan't get that?
Well, he did, and he got thebid.
So we built this doggonethree-story lodge up there and
it was actually.
It was beautiful, it had anA-frame to it and I don't know
if you even remember it, steve.
Steve Rolfe (21:37):
I do.
I do.
When I was, I would stay at theMountaineers and then we'd
sneak out of Mountaineers andwe'd go down to the Summit Inn I
think it was called the SummitInn and we'd go and we'd play
poker and drink beer there, andhell, I was what?
17, 16?
I don't know yeah.
Gary Burke (21:58):
Yeah, well, it was three stories, I think we slept.
The stories two and three wasstrictly for lodging.
I think we slept 90 people inthat place.
And then the first floor wasthe restaurant, a cafeteria type
style.
And so when we started going upthere, lloyd Burkhi and Harry
(22:19):
Prezan started coming over tothe restaurant and we got to
know each other and I gotfascinated by what these guys
were doing up on the slopes withthese things called toboggans.
So they said well, why don'tyou come up and join us and
we'll go skiing?
Well, hey, 1953, I was only ayoungster, my God, I don't even
(22:42):
think I was 17 years old at thetime.
So we went up and startedskiing with them and all of a
sudden they said well, why don'tyou join the ski patrol?
You can come on as a juniormember.
I said, okay, and look whathappened.
So it was a very interestingtime and I got started at
(23:06):
Stevens with Lloyd and Harry,and then I graduated from high
school in 57, and off I went toWashington State University and
my skiing then was over there atthe college ski area in eastern
Washington, and then I wouldcome back once in a while and
(23:26):
ski at Stevens.
Well then my dad got the bugwith some other fellas, decided
Hyak was up for sale atSnoqualmie Pass and they were
having some financial problemsup there and he decided maybe we
should go over to Hyak now andget rid of Stevens Pass.
(23:47):
So they sold Stevens Pass andoff they went to Hyak and they
ended up buying Hyak five guysand of course I had to go to
Hyak.
So when I got over to Hyak theski patrol was basically a small
unit at that time and our goodfriend Bob Hostack was there and
(24:08):
the story got written behind.
Bob Hostack was there and thestory got written behind Bob
Hostack.
From there and off we went upthe line.
Murphy (24:17):
So who's Bob Hostack?
Gary Burke (24:19):
Bob Hostack was a Boeing engineer and he was also
the patrol director at Hyak atthat time and the patrol was
real small.
Steve, I don't remember whenyou started at Hyak.
Steve Rolfe (24:35):
I think it was 67 or 68.
Jodie (24:38):
We have you down as 67.
As in joining NSP, that doesn'tmean your candidate time.
Steve Rolfe (24:45):
I don't remember exactly, but there were 30
people taking on in my class.
That was a lot of people.
Gary Burke (24:54):
Yeah, I think in 62, when I got over there, bob and
I got together and startedsaying, well, let's recruit some
people and let's put a patroltogether.
That's going to be somethingthat's going to be around for a
long time.
So we started building a patrol, starting in 1962, and uh, the
(25:14):
rest is history so when did youguys build your building down
there?
Murphy (25:18):
you know, the one that's at the base for the patrol yeah
, well, that's another story.
Gary Burke (25:25):
oh geez, that building, uh and uh I don't know
what's there today because Ihaven't been up there for quite
a while, but the building thatwe went into, that Steve and I
was in, was another buildingsomewhere on the property that
they moved over there and theyjacked it up, put a foundation
on it and put two buildingstogether to create that current
(25:49):
ski patrol, or the ski patrolthat we were in at that time I
think that's what's still therenow no, what is it now?
It's the same one steve.
Steve Rolfe (25:57):
Really, the last time I was there it hasn't
changed much.
Shirley Cummings (26:01):
Oh really, speak up we have a refrigerator
now, though we don't have toopen that door and put all the
food in the snow well, Iremember is that shirley?
Gary Burke (26:13):
yep, we're sure.
Jodie (26:15):
Yeah, I don't see shirley's video's not on right
at the moment oh, I see, okay,hi shirley, hi gary, how are you
speaking of that?
Steve Rolfe (26:26):
what I remember is people would buy Piazzano.
Again, I was a very naive kid.
People would bring these gallonjugs of Piazzano wine.
It's undrinkable, anyway,they'd drink it.
And then I figured I better fitin, so I would have some too.
You know, I tried not to beobnoxious about it.
And then they would put it outthe window in the back and let
(26:48):
it sit there and uh, and then itwould get snowed over, and so
then a few weeks later, if itmelted, then there was being a
half of a jug of paesano redwine.
Gary Burke (26:58):
Uh, that was the refrigerator it just sounds
revolting well, when we, when wefirst got to that building— so
that building was, you said, 62?
Yeah, the sewer system wasn'teven hooked up yet, and
that's—Shirley probably canremember that too.
(27:20):
I mean, it was—we were reallyin the ancient times when we
took that building over.
Murphy (27:29):
Holy cow, so you smashed—because yeah, I've
walked into that building overHoly cow, so you'd smash,
because, yeah, I've walked intothat building.
And now that you say that itwas two buildings that were
sandwiched together, it makes alot of sense because that first
aid room right, correct me ifI'm wrong, shirley If I'm
standing looking at there, thefirst aid room is on the right
side and then it looks likeanother building where you've
got, you know, the boot up roomand there's a wood stove in
(27:50):
there and a kitchen.
That doesn't look like itbelonged, but it was put in
there.
Okay, so that's all.
And you said 62 that went in.
Gary Burke (27:59):
Well, it was about that time I'd have to go back
and actually look.
When Skip Voorhees, who was theprior owner to Hyak, who sold
out to my father and four orfive other guys, bill Romans,
became the new manager.
Executive manager of theorganization.
(28:19):
Shirley, do you remember whatyear that was?
Shirley Cummings (28:27):
I'm thinking it must have been 65 or 6.
You know, gary was managing theski shop for REI then.
But we slept in the buildingand when you came into one of
the doors where the tunnel isnow, there was a wood stove.
Gary Burke (28:44):
Yeah.
Shirley Cummings (28:46):
And then they've changed the dorms so
that instead of being parallelone way they're now parallel the
other way.
But and we all slept in thefirst aid room, Remember I don't
remember anybody in the otherrooms, but ski patrol was real
nice to us and we had in thearea gave us Saturday night
(29:08):
dinner as a part of our mealtips?
Steve Rolfe (29:13):
Oh my God, we would get it.
I would get like $2 and 50cents for patrolling for a whole
weekend credit or somethinglike that, and that was enough
to get dinner to dinner andlunch and breakfast or something
at the.
Oh my gosh.
Gary Burke (29:33):
Those are the primitive days, Steve.
Steve Rolfe (29:39):
I would somehow hitch my way up to Crystal and
I'm just looking around allthese older guys, and then they
get me these meal chits.
I just felt like I was in hogheaven, Meal chit, and I didn't
have to sleep in the snow.
You slept in the snow?
No, I didn't have to.
I mean, I slept in the dorm.
I didn't sleep in the first aidroom.
(29:59):
That was for the adults.
Jodie (30:02):
Okay.
Murphy (30:05):
All right.
So I'm looking at your resumehere.
It says you wound up gettingyour national appointment in
1966, and your number is what?
Gary Burke (30:14):
2997.
Oh man that's good.
Murphy (30:18):
You got a good memory there.
You passed your memory recall.
So how did that feel back in1966 to get that national
appointment?
How old were you?
How old were you.
Gary Burke (30:31):
How old, was I?
Jeez, I got to think about thatman.
Murphy (30:36):
Need a calculator.
Gary Burke (30:39):
That was 66.
We did that, so this is 2025,1966.
No, that can't be right it's 60.
I don't know however old I am.
It's okay.
But yeah, I really got intothis ski patrol thing and in in
(31:06):
65 the company too my companyalso was becoming the official
supplier to the National SkiPatrol the red jackets that
everybody has worn.
White Stag originally startedthe program called Rainier Red,
(31:29):
which is the official NationalSki Patrol color, and so after I
graduated from Wazoo and cameto work into the company, white
Stag and Sportcaster kind of gottogether to try to see who was
going to supply the jackets tothe National Ski Patrol.
(31:49):
And at that time I think WhiteStag was trying to do some of it
and of course I was part of theSki Patrol and I said, well, we
got to get into it.
So it became very interesting,because now I'm part of the Ski
Patrol and then I had to go toDenver sometimes and take
various models of the jacket,which we eventually had, a
(32:12):
women's and a men's, and we hada heavier one and a lighter one,
then we created a down one, sowe had about four or five models
, and so then when we became theofficial supplier, that was an
interesting time.
So I really got into the skipatrol and Shirley has been with
(32:33):
me ever since I became a patroldirector up through the ranks
and it's been a long, wonderfuljourney with her being the
secretary and my backup and myadvisor and help.
And when we needed additionalhelp she had Gary number two, or
(32:54):
maybe he was number one and Iwas number two, or it depends on
if you're talking about thefamily, if you're talking about
the ski patrol, but she couldnever forget our names because
when she called Gary, two of usanswered.
Whenever we did anything forthe ski patrol, both Shirley and
Gary were always on deck andit's been a wonderful, wonderful
(33:15):
trip.
Shirley Cummings (33:16):
Talk about managed change.
Gary Burke (33:21):
Talk about what?
Shirley Cummings (33:22):
Managed change .
Jodie (33:26):
I can't quite hear you.
Managed change.
Gary Burke (33:28):
Managed change.
Jodie (33:29):
Yeah, george Whitman I can't quite hear Manage change,
manage change, manage change,yeah.
Shirley Cummings (33:32):
George Whitman and Marlon.
Jodie (33:36):
Marlon and Whitman.
Gary Burke (33:39):
George Whitman and.
Steve Rolfe (33:39):
Marlon Gill.
Yeah, yeah, there was a timewhen you spent a lot of time
with different patrols keepingthem from getting fired Yep.
A lot of time with differentpatrols keeping them from
getting fired, yep.
You used to say you were partof the reconciliation or
remediation service or something.
Gary Burke (33:59):
Well, we had another guy in there who really
aggravated the situation by thename of Kurt Beam.
Oh yes, and this clan that theyhad, and those guys were out of
(34:27):
Stevens Pass at that time whokind of was the majority of our
division and they used to dothings that upset National and
it became a real go-around ring,you might say.
And yeah, we had a lot ofbackdoor, backroom talking about
(34:51):
keeping everybody happy so wedidn't get kicked out of the
National Ski Patrol.
But it was just one of thosethings the growing pains and the
board at that time was not asstrong as what it became moving
forward and we had a lot ofrebels and a lot of rebel
thinking and the rebel thinkingsometimes wasn't in concert with
(35:15):
what the national thinking was.
But, as Shirley knows, therewere times we smoked on the
peace pipe with a lot of peoplefor a lot of reasons.
Knows there were times we smokeon the peace pipe with a lot of
people for a lot of reasons,trying to keep things going in
the right direction and not getkicked out of the national ski
patrol.
Murphy (35:31):
But okay, so you got to give us an example.
So what are some of the thingsthat used to happen that, uh,
frayed the relationship betweenthe northwest and national?
Gary Burke (35:44):
Well, Kurt Beam was a unique individual in his own
right.
Did you folks ever remember him?
Jodie (35:53):
I've heard the name only.
Steve Rolfe (35:55):
I went to his funeral and found out all sorts
of stuff that I didn't knowabout him, but Kurt Beam was
quite a character.
Gary Burke (36:02):
Kurt Beam was a German fellow and he had a real
heavy accent and he had a lot ofopinions at times that were not
in concert with the nationalpolicy, sometimes come down
(36:26):
through the ranks into theregions and some of the regions
did not want to accept some ofthe policies and the philosophy
that Kurt Beam had, andsometimes it got really exciting
and it really was a potpourriof stuff mixed up and it wasn't
until, you know, we kind of gotKurt to get retired and after
(36:48):
Kurt we had Marlon, wasn't itMarlon after Kurt?
Shirley Cummings (36:54):
Yeah, I think so yeah.
Gary Burke (36:55):
Marlon came in and Marlon settled everything down
and got everything back on trackand Marlon eventually became a
national director.
But along the way you followedMarlon what's?
Shirley Cummings (37:09):
that you followed Marlon, so we had a
clean sweep for a while.
Gary Burke (37:15):
Yeah, then I followed Marlon.
But in an organization thissize that had about 22,000
members at that time Iunderstand we're up to about 30
now there's always going to bevarious philosophies and in the
board of director meetingssometimes things got pretty hot
(37:37):
and they would have to callrecess of the national board
meeting to have people to cooldown.
You're kidding, go out into thehallway and talk to your allies
and you know.
And then let's come back in andgo at this again, because back
as the National Ski Patrol wasgrowing, we had these
(37:57):
philosophical differences.
And then we had these legalsituations that came up that we
had to abide by.
And then we had the skiindustries of America that we
had to abide by.
And then we had the SkiIndustries of America that was
starting to have influence onNational Ski Patrol.
And then we had theProfessional Ski Patrollers
Association who got involved andI mean this thing was a hot pot
(38:19):
purree as we developed and grewalong.
And then we had Ed Erickson whocame along and was a national
and grew along.
And then we had Ed Erickson whocame along and was a national
executive.
He was the executive in chargeof the office there and he had
his own philosophies andsometimes it wasn't in concert
with the board or the nationaldirector, chuck Schobinger, and
(38:49):
these guys.
I'm telling you it was like, I'msure, the way some of these
countries get together and argue, fight things out, it was just
something else.
Oh my goodness, it was a lot ofstuff went on that the local
patrollers didn't hear or see,but they saw the end results of
the philosophy or what theywanted to try to do.
And even today, going into thisEMT thing, it was a hot paris
(39:11):
at that time whether we wantedto go beyond the American Red
Cross of having to take thestandard and the advanced course
and the CPR courses.
And then they introduced theEMT Emergency Medical Technician
rank thing came in, and thatwas of course a state program,
(39:31):
not an American Red Crossprogram, and then we were having
cross-references going onbetween those two things and
that was a hot potato for awhile.
So it was fun at times and attimes it wasn't fun.
It was very, very discerning.
Murphy (39:50):
So you were the region director here for a while.
And then I'm looking at yourresume.
You wound up being theassistant division director from
76 to 77, national financecommittee member 77 to 82,
division director here from 77to 82, and then national board
(40:12):
rep.
So you sat on the nationalboard for a while.
Gary Burke (40:17):
Yeah, I was on the board as the division director
and as a national board rep.
Oh wow, and we have nationalboard reps now too, in each
division.
Murphy (40:29):
So, what were the biggest challenges that you had
when you were sitting on theboard?
I mean, you have to balancewhat patrollers want and what
the area wants, and you know, asyou said, the EMTs were trying
to come in there.
How did you balance that, orwhat was your mindset to make?
Steve Rolfe (40:47):
all that work.
Gary Burke (40:52):
Well, as Shirley knows, we had to have good
communications within thedivision.
There was a lot of telephoningand a lot of getting together
and we had guys like Bill Savorywho was the Crystal Mountain
Patrol Director, who wasprobably one of the most
(41:16):
outspoken not in a bad way, butan outspoken patrol director who
was building Crystal Mountainfrom day one at the time.
And the regional meetings forPacific Northwest region had the
major influence, I believe, onthe rest of the division.
So after I moved from region todivision I was able to take
(41:42):
some of the philosophy from theNorthwest region and apply it to
the rest of the division andtry to get everybody on an even
keel, talking the same language,going along with the same
philosophy, and then carryingthat forward to the national
level.
But boy, let me tell you, theEastern division is so wildly
different than the rest of thedivisions that there were times
(42:06):
when we would have thesenational meetings and we'd get
in these big arguments that well, okay, it may be good for you,
but it's not good for us.
And then maybe the Midwestdivision would speak up and say,
no, wait a minute, it's notgoing to be good for us.
It may be good for you guys,but it's not going to be good
for us.
So you always had thisnegotiation thing going on to
(42:30):
make sure that it worked foreverybody, because all the
division directors had to goback to their respective
divisions and sell the programto the regions and the regions
had to sell it down to thepatrols.
And sometimes some of thatphilosophy was interesting.
Murphy (42:48):
Can you give us an example from back in the day?
Gary Burke (42:51):
Oh man, I don't even know if I can.
I think probably some of thebiggest problems was the exams
that we had to give, or startedto give, and trying to get
everybody to study on the samestuff.
So when they took the exams onthe yearly basis that they were
(43:14):
going to be able to pass thisstuff, because some of the
people didn't grasp it and ifthey didn't pass it, you know,
then they couldn't be part ofthe patrol for that coming year.
I think a lot of this was kindof how you put the information
together for the refreshercourses and what's going to be
in and who's going to do it andhow are you going to do it.
(43:34):
How are you going to do theactual physical aspect of it?
We used to argue about thisstuff all the time on a national
level because it was differentfor everybody, because it was
different for everybody, and sopeople didn't have the same
quality of instructors in theirdivision that some of the other
divisions had, and it wasn'tbecause they couldn't find them
(43:56):
or they couldn't do it, it wasjust, you know, people did
things differently in differentparts of the country.
It's real tough an organizationof this size trying to get
everybody on the same page, atthe same time, doing the same
thing for the same reason.
To come up with the sameobjective that the National Ski
Patrol stood for.
Steve Rolfe (44:17):
Standardizing is, I think is what you're getting to
.
He was really at the nexus ofthis.
There was a huge cultural fightgoing on within the Ski Patrol.
Ski Patrols had originallyemerged as independent
organizations associated withthe NSP, so I mean the patrols
(44:39):
didn't have much operationalresponsibility.
They had no operationalresponsibilities, they were
clubs.
In some ways they were clubs,in some ways they were
operational units.
In some ways they responded toarea management, in some ways
they were independent and itattracted a lot of hard-headed
(44:59):
people, as Gary kind ofdiscussed.
And so the cultural differencesbetween just patrols within a
region or division, and then youcan imagine the cultural
differences between differentdivisions, were staggering and
many people didn't have the bigpicture.
They looked at it from theirsense of the world.
(45:20):
They didn't stand back and seehow it all fit together.
It was more of a fight than itwas to try to pull it together.
I can see it now.
When I was young and I waswatching Gary do this, it was
much dimmer to me but it was astaggering cultural change.
He also had the, I think, whenhe was on the board.
(45:41):
You had an executive directorthat wanted to make huge changes
to the NSP and you ended uphaving to fire the guy right.
Gary Burke (45:51):
Yeah, yeah, he got fired.
Steve Rolfe (45:53):
Yeah Again.
So then, not only did you havedifferences in patrols and, as
you said, the Ski Area IndustryAssociation had different
expectations area managers, thenyou had even in your own
organization the guy you you hadwas running the organization
wants to take it in a differentplace than than the board wants.
So it was a lot of, but it madeit fun.
Murphy (46:14):
Yeah, it's interesting and you know that still goes on
today, because we wind uptalking to the division
directors and you know they comeback and talk to us and they
talk about how different theEast coast is and what they do
versus what we do out West, andso I don't.
It sounds like that has been anongoing issue for like 30 years
(46:38):
here.
I thought it was, you know,like oh okay, Probably from 1936
, 38.
It's like have you ever seen onthe East Coast they run outside
the handles.
Have you ever seen that in atoboggan?
Jodie (46:56):
There's always debates on that on the social media.
Yeah, so you got to look,because this is like an East
Coast thing and I have neverdone outside the handles.
Murphy (47:05):
I couldn't even imagine doing that at Crystal.
But you know, you see people onthe East Coast where they're
outside the handle.
You know navigating a mogulfield.
I'm like God.
Jodie (47:16):
And they're vice versa.
They can't imagine you guysdoing what you're doing.
Steve Rolfe (47:20):
Well, they're wrong .
Murphy (47:23):
I mean, I just don't know any big mountains back East
.
I mean, am I wrong?
Steve Rolfe (47:28):
There's a, there's a few.
Murphy (47:31):
Oh Stoas.
Steve Rolfe (47:32):
Yeah, there's a, there's a few, but yeah, a lot
of them are 500 vertical feet.
Yeah, okay, and the Midwest thesame way.
Murphy (47:39):
Now, we're not talking down, I just want to make sure.
Jodie (47:41):
No that's my point.
Steve Rolfe (47:42):
Let's clarify here that's my point is that is, they
have different needs.
Murphy (47:46):
Right.
Steve Rolfe (47:48):
NSP needs to recognize that it's an
amalgamation of a bunch ofpeople with similar interests,
but not identical interests.
That's your answer.
Murphy (48:00):
Or environments, I should say.
Jodie (48:02):
Yeah right, the different environments that way.
Environments I should say yeahright, the different
environments that way.
So, gary, you, shirley, maybeyou need to ask this question.
You had some specific questionsfor Gary.
One was about the groups herecruited.
Gary Burke (48:22):
About what About?
Shirley Cummings (48:22):
what I think that you had a unique talent for
.
If the ski patrol had a need,like to get along with the
Forest Service, I remember thatyou Ken White wasn't it Ken
White?
or who was the guy up at Summityou recruited these people as
(48:45):
friends and I remember you know,not outside of patrol, you were
going to lunch or you weremeeting them for lunch or
something.
And when we needed to dosomething with first aid, when
our relationship with AmericanRed Cross wasn't so great, I
think you recruited NormBottenberg and I remember one of
(49:09):
your comments was well, we'llteach him how to ski.
The important thing is that heknows the first aid.
I think there were so manyareas where if we needed
somebody, you went out and foundthem and then we made them a
patroller.
Jodie (49:28):
That's interesting.
Gary Burke (49:30):
Well, ken White was a really interesting guy.
We became really close personalfriends when he showed up at
Snoqualmie Pass as the new snowranger.
It just so happens that I wasreturning the day that he
arrived at Snoqualmie Pass.
The weekend I was returningfrom the divisional convention
(49:53):
in Yakima and I had to go overSnoqualmie Pass, and so when I
got to Snoqualmie Pass, therewas a moving van there and I
couldn't help but stop.
I went in and here's Ken andPat White, and these two kids
introduced myself and that wasthe start of what turned out to
be a very long personalrelationship.
(50:16):
And what was really knocking meoff my shoes is when he says
well, I got to tell yousomething that might surprise
you.
And I said well, what's that?
He says I've never skied, Idon't know how to ski, and I'm
now the new snow ranger forSnoqualmie Pass.
I looked at him and I remembersaying I don't think that's a
really funny joke, ken.
Not a joke, it's true.
(50:38):
And I said well, we got tocorrect that.
So when the snow fell, thefirst thing I did was I talked
to who was the patrol directorat that time I can see him, but
I can't remember his name and Isaid we've got to assign a group
(51:03):
of three or four skiers toteach Ken White how to ski.
And so he started takinglessons from the ski patrol,
unbeknownst to anybody andstarted to ski.
And it took us through thatwhole season before he finally
(51:23):
started to be able to come downthe hill by himself and could
make it, and, as it turned out,he ended up becoming a pretty
good skier.
Oh wow, it was Never heard thatstory.
Steve Rolfe (51:36):
Gary, because he was a good skier.
Gary Burke (51:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, the poor guy.
Just it was something else.
And then his kids startedskiing and then eventually Pat
started skiing.
It was something else, and thenhis kids started skiing and
then eventually Pat startedskiing.
So we skied a lot together andhe instituted some new forest
service procedures for ski areasthat are in effect today, and I
(52:00):
think that the relationshipbetween him and the ski patrol
became a very, very close one.
And then when he got assigned asthe official, any type of
rescues or highway accidentsthat happened on Soqualmi Pass
both Kittitas County Sheriff andKing County Sheriff gave the
(52:21):
responsibility to Ken White tostart and assume responsibility
for all search and rescueefforts, even on the highway,
while he was up there as a snowranger.
Otherwise we had to wait forhighway patrol, state patrol or
for the sheriff from Kittitas orKing County to show up.
So it really smoothed over therelationship and at that time he
(52:46):
then wanted to have what wecall the Greater Snoqualmie Pass
Avalanche Rescue Plan, which Ibelieve that was back in 71 and
72.
And I ended up getting involvedin that thing and the two
sheriffs decided to cometogether and form a plan in
which the Forest Service wouldassume the responsibility until
(53:08):
necessary law enforcement couldarrive on the scene.
And it really worked wellbecause, as Steve knows, when
there was avalanches and carsgot, trucks got buried, ken took
over and he did a masterful job.
Spart was formed by that timeand down the road we went, wow,
back country or whatever it was.
As a matter of fact, ken wascalled upon on several other
(53:30):
instances to come and helpconduct search and rescue
operations for Sheriff'sDepartment because they didn't
really know what to do in someof these areas.
I remember the Palmer rescuewas one of them and Ken would
come in and basically take overand help direct some of these
areas.
I remember the Palmer Rescuewas one of them and Ken would
come in and basically take overand help direct some of these
rescues, primarily from what helearned up Snoqualmie Pass with
(53:54):
the ski patrol and the growingof the ski patrol and Ken White
together.
Jodie (53:59):
Wow, Now you had down an avalanche patch in 1965.
What does that mean?
Gary Burke (54:10):
an avalanche patch in 1965?
What does that mean?
When the new bridge was put inon the highway and they split
the highway over on the oppositeside of the valley, we were
always concerned, and so was theState Patrol and the Highway
Department, that somebody wasgoing to go off the high side of
that stretch that goes acrossthe valley there.
So it was decided that we weregoing to put together some
(54:31):
rescue equipment.
If that happened, that we wouldhave to go over the side of
this bridge and rappel down intothe canyon.
And so an avalanche cache wasput together along with rescue
equipment that would be on thescene, and it was put at the end
, the south end of the bridge,underneath the bridge, in a
(54:52):
compartment that the highwaydepartment helped put together,
and it's probably still theretoday.
Wow, I don't know.
But SPARC became kind ofprimarily responsible for that
and fortunately we never everhad a car go over off that
bridge of that portion.
But if it did, the equipmentwas there to seek the rescue.
Steve Rolfe (55:13):
No, that's not true .
I remember I was director atthe time and I was pretty young
and I'm trying to remember Waynewrote the plan for the skeet
for us, and who was the guy that?
Anyway, it was five years latersomebody did go over the bridge
.
Gary Burke (55:31):
Oh, they did.
Steve Rolfe (55:32):
Okay, over the bridge.
The challenge is if you were togo slowly.
It's going westbound At 70miles an hour.
It's designed perfectly for 70miles an hour but if you go
slowly you realize how deeply,how sloped it is and with a
little bit of snow on it andsome snow on the low side, you
(55:52):
can easily imagine a car slidingdown and going right over.
We wrote this plan.
I was.
I was director, but I wasn't, Iwas.
Somebody else did it and and,sure enough, five years later,
somebody did go over it.
They didn't make it.
It's a long drop.
Murphy (56:10):
I was going to say it's a long way down.
Steve Rolfe (56:13):
No, so it was Gary's concern he was.
My recollection is is that theDOT was not they.
They drug their feet on it andGary was very instrumental in
making sure we had a plan.
Jodie (56:27):
Wow.
Steve Rolfe (56:28):
Getting people together.
Jodie (56:31):
Wow, yeah.
So, gary, you mentioned aboutShirley being your right hand.
You got a division certificateof appreciation supporting the
Skier 2 program.
What can you tell us about that?
Gary Burke (56:48):
Probably Shirley could tell more about that.
I was in favor of that programfrom day one and, Shirley,
you're going to have to talkabout that because I can't
remember.
Shirley Cummings (57:00):
Well, gary was one of the patrollers that came
up on Wednesdays and we hadpatrollers from, I think, six
different patrols that came upon Wednesday and we got our
students from Pacific School,which was a school for special
needs kids, kids and they had amental age of between five and
(57:27):
about 35, but a chronologicalage they were.
All that was theirchronological age.
Their mental age was about fiveto 10, around in there and we
were able to, through mostlythrough donations of patrollers,
collect equipment.
(57:48):
So the students got freeequipment and Earl Papik was
able to get a National Guard busdonated and the Hyatt
Corporation gave tickets to allthese kids.
And so we had one patroller andone student come up on
(58:11):
Wednesdays and I remember one ofthe little girls that I had
that had Down syndrome withsupposedly her teacher said she
had a mental age of 55.
And we got her on the chairliftand that was our big goal for
these kids.
They wanted the goal to get onthe chairlift and that was our
big goal for these kids.
They wanted the goal to get onthe chairlift and for some of
them it was pretty scary beingup there but we had.
(58:33):
I mean it was fun to work withpatrollers from five other
patrols.
Every Wednesday we'd see eachother and we got to be really
good friends with these kids.
Joyce Hill was the one that hadthe idea and she worked with the
ski area and I did all thetyping to request the stuff for
(58:57):
the program.
And Kurt Beam was supposedlygoing to carry our request to
National to give it the Nationalblessing.
But when he came home he toldus well, he thought about it and
he decided maybe the Ski Patroldidn't want to be associated
with children who had problems.
(59:18):
So he decided not to pursue it.
But we did it for about sixyears.
It was fun times.
Yeah, not to pursue it, but wedid it for about six years.
Jodie (59:30):
It was fun times.
Murphy (59:32):
Yeah, wow, so that program was thwarted by somebody
who made the unilateraldecision and then just walked
away.
That's too bad.
Jodie (59:42):
Yeah.
Shirley Cummings (59:43):
You know, in those days there were no copy
machine.
I do remember a copy machinebecause every time I did the
patrol minutes or the region orthe division minutes, it was on
mimeograph.
And Gary had this greatsecretary at Sportcaster who
would always just happen to helpus do some of that, happened to
(01:00:04):
help us do some of that.
You've got mimeo.
If you were mimeographingsomething you usually got
mimeograph ink.
You know, all over you.
Jodie (01:00:13):
The purple ink.
Murphy (01:00:14):
Yeah, but you know I used to love to smell the paper
after you'd get that for a testat school.
Shirley Cummings (01:00:20):
But our application for the Skiers 2
program was in one big thing,and so you couldn't have an
application that you'd give thesame one the next year because
it was gone.
You'd have to start all over.
I mean even awards if you weregoing to nominate your patrol,
(01:00:42):
and I have the copy of the onethat we submitted, but it was
all one of a-a-kind things thatwere in stuff, no copies.
So once you used it or lost it,you started over.
Jodie (01:00:57):
Oh my goodness.
So Shirley and Gary, what isthis about Pete Mannion and
battery acid?
And Gary, what is this aboutPete Mannion and battery acid?
Shirley Cummings (01:01:05):
I thought that was a good example of Gary Burt
dealing with stuff on thepatrol.
Do you remember that, Gary?
Gary Burke (01:01:12):
No.
Shirley Cummings (01:01:14):
The night that Pete Mannion and the battery
acid blew up in his face.
Gary Burke (01:01:20):
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that.
Shirley Cummings (01:01:28):
Tell the story , shirley.
Oh well, I was hoping you wouldtell the story, but I remember
(01:01:48):
waking up in the first aid roomand you were jumping up and you
had your white skivvies on andyou started yelling because
somebody was bringing in Peteand his face was all red and you
were screaming at some peopleto get the water running.
That was during the time thatthe railroad was siphoning water
off the water tower, so wedidn't have water.
You were yelling at somebodyelse to start melting snow on
the stove that was in thatcenter room.
(01:02:13):
You told some other people toget ready for a rescue going
outside and at the same time youwere using the telephone and, I
think, two radios, as Iremember, because we had 13
inches of cascade concrete inthe parking lot.
(01:02:36):
You had to get some kind of apacker in there because our
packer was out of commission.
Having, because our packer wasout of commission having, you
know, hurt Pete and the meantimeyou're all yelling about keep
flushing, keep flushing, keepflushing, and the water was
(01:02:56):
dribbling by now.
So we had to get people to getsnow, to melt snow, and you were
talking to the area manager on,I think, one radio and to the
state patrol on another to openthe highway.
And you were talking tosomebody, I just remember you
juggling.
Anyway, they said that and ittook an hour for the ambulance
(01:03:20):
to get to the edge of theparking lot.
To the edge of the parking lotand then they some patrollers I
think took him out in a tobogganto the end of the parking lot,
which is a quarter mile long,and they said had we not if we
hadn't had, if we had water, itwas important that we had
(01:03:41):
flushed his eyes for about anhour.
That that's what saved hiseyesight.
If we had just taken him to theambulance right away, he
wouldn't have gotten flushed solong and he might not have had.
Murphy (01:03:55):
So how did a battery blow up in his face?
Shirley Cummings (01:03:57):
He was trying to jumpstart it.
Gary Burke (01:04:00):
I remember something about that too.
He was doing something that heshouldn't have been doing.
It backfired on him.
Ouch, yeah, he was really luckyyeah, I'd say so oh my goodness
.
Jodie (01:04:18):
So um also gary you.
You were a division directorright for several years and but
also on the board of directors,and did you find that the
division directors earlier ondid a lot more decision-making
than they do now?
Gary Burke (01:04:35):
Yeah, yes, I think so.
Each division was kind of itsown autonomy of its own autonomy
and I think they were doing thethings that fit the needs of
the particular division, becausewhen I went to some of these
(01:04:56):
other divisions the way thatthey operated was not the same
way we did.
Their philosophy might havebeen different in the way they
did things might have beendifferent in the way they did
things.
I was in first aid rooms andyou know, probably one of the
biggest first aid rooms thatI've ever seen was at Crystal
Mountain and probably SnoqualmiePass and some of these others.
(01:05:17):
They just have really smallfirst aid type rooms.
But you know, the Ski Patrolwent through such a growing
period and as it grew, the firstaid part of it, I think our
national director, our nationaldoctor, was Bowman, oh, if I
(01:05:40):
remember.
Is that right, shirley?
Shirley Cummings (01:05:41):
I think so, and he was writing a book.
Gary Burke (01:05:44):
Unfortunately, he was very progressive and he was
trying to get standardization inthe first aid rooms, in the
training, in the exams andeverything that was doing it,
and he had a monumental job todeal with.
So did Avalanche and so didcommunications they all did.
(01:06:06):
But the first aid, which iswhat we were really all about,
was the biggest part of thiswhole thing and I think it was
Dr Warren Bowman, if I rememberright.
He was a super guy, he reallywas, and I think he did a
wonderful job as we grew throughthe years, trying to get
(01:06:30):
everybody on some kind of astandardized system, even though
each of the divisions mighthave been doing things a little
bit differently.
Premature, primitive, whateveryou want to call it Probably
primitive was a good example.
Jodie (01:06:45):
Yeah, but that standardization was huge.
I had a rescue back in 2011,and we had patrollers from
Michigan, we had Washington, wehad Oregon, we had Utah and we
had a case where we had twopeople and people that never
(01:07:06):
trained with each other, neverseen each other, totally
different divisions, and youcould tell the training just
clicked for all of them justreally well.
So it was nice to see that.
I really would appreciate,because we want to hear more
about all this stuff that you'vebeen involved with.
Murphy (01:07:25):
A little more history, yeah.
Jodie (01:07:28):
It's great.
Murphy (01:07:28):
You can't deliver a resume like that and have 30
minutes to try and go over thosethings.
I got to say, Gary, I wasimpressed.
I have seen some ski patrolresumes.
They pale in comparison to whatyou have here.
Shirley Cummings (01:07:43):
I agree.
Jodie (01:07:45):
Absolutely.
So, Shirley, you've been awfully quiet down there,
Curious.
What stories can you tell usabout Steve?
Shirley Cummings (00:11):
Oh goodness.
Jodie (00:16):
We know about your boots.
Steve Rolfe (00:21):
I'll tell one more story, because this is really
the first day that I was at Hyakand I passed the tobogganing
exam.
Now, in those days I was askinny guy, I weighed 132 pounds
and somebody asked if BillMcNally and surely we'll
(00:58):
remember Bill McNally he had atoboggan full of equipment and
he said someone want to help metake this down?
And I said I do.
You know, I mean I do, andSandy March looks at McNally was
this huge guy, didn't ski verywell, but in the handles of a
toboggan, you know he could leanon the toboggan going down the
hill and it was okay anyway.
So he is full of equipment.
I'm on the rope, a very longrope, and he's not doing very
well.
And this is I.
(01:19):
Somehow the rope goes slack, Iski over the rope and at that
point it goes tight again andI'm launched.
I do a full flip and I'm sure Icame out of my skis and it
irritated the hell out of mebecause I was trying to keep up
with him.
(01:40):
First day, this is the firstday that, after I mean the day I
passed my exam anyway and I, Ilook up and I'm I'm not angry at
him, I'm just frustrated and Igo and I, the audacity of me.
I said, bill, get out of here,I'm taking the toboggan.
I took it down all by myself.
The being on the tail rope wasjust on his tail rope.
(02:00):
He's going all over the placeand getting whipped around, I
said, and I took it down all bymyself.
From that day forward, I wasnever afraid of a toboggan.
Jodie (02:08):
Interesting.
What kind of toboggan was that?
Steve Rolfe (02:11):
Oh, I think probably a Sun Valley.
Murphy (02:14):
Is that like a Cascade 100 kind of thing?
Steve Rolfe (02:17):
Yeah, cascade 100, only it weighs three times as
much.
Oh, they're terrible.
It might have been a C acascade, but it was definitely
one of those with a tail ropeanyway, and uh and it you know
for all of this, if you get on asteep slope with the toboggan.
It can be intimidating and I wasnever.
I always had the confidencethat I could manage.
(02:40):
Um, and I think it comesexactly from that silly story
where I said, phil, get out ofhere this 17-year-old kid.
The audacity of me saying thatI can't how disrespectful.
You know, I didn't know better.
Murphy (02:57):
So when you were at Crystal, did they, when did they
bring on those four-handlesleds which were affectionately
known as crystal sleds for years?
Jodie (03:10):
Akias right.
Murphy (03:11):
No no.
Steve Rolfe (03:11):
Well, so it's modeled after the Akias Okay
Talbot.
Murphy (03:18):
Wasn't there a boat builder that built some of those
Shirley and?
Steve Rolfe (03:20):
I had this conversation, but there was a
fellow Talbert, and I'm not sureif it was Larry Lundstrom.
There could have been In thefirst year, at Crystal Mountain,
some of the arrogance of thefounders.
They said, oh, we want to bethe Sun Valley of Washington
State, and so they tried in someways they tried to emulate it
(03:41):
and one of the things is tobring the Sun Valley toboggans,
which, if you skied at SunValley, makes sense.
They still use those things.
It kind of makes sense becauseyou can go straight downhill
most everywhere at Sun Valley,but Crystal Mountain you can't
go, especially before grooming.
You could not go straightdownhill anywhere.
(04:03):
There was many places where youhad to do traverses and the sun
valley toboggan was beyonddangerous, it was nearly
impossible.
So, uh, I believe it was thesecond year, but within a year
or two, uh, they commissioned abuilding, uh, the clark boat
company, the Clark Boat Company,which the company that made the
Sea Lark sailboat, to build theCrystal Toboggan and I believe
(04:32):
that Cascade Toboggan owned byBradley.
Bradley, bob, I just talkedwith Bob.
No, Anyway, bradley, his fatherdesigned it, started
manufacturing and had the rightsto it.
When was that?
Well, so this would have beenin 63, 64 when the crystal
(04:55):
toboggan was invented, and ifyou ski in a every once in a
while I'm skiing down Lucky Shotand I remember and there's
little tiny moguls and I go andI have to laugh at myself.
The moguls used to be the sizeof Volkswagen's and I'm not
(05:16):
exaggerating, and you'd have tojam the toboggan into it on the
front side and then you'd liftit up on the backside so that
the person in the back of thetoboggan didn't get lifted off
the ground.
And they were.
You couldn't have the Cascade100s in Sun Valley, but you
(05:40):
couldn't.
They were unworkable.
But now, because of grooming,the two-handle toboggans are
probably have many advantages.
Murphy (05:52):
They do.
I still love those four-handles, though I keep being a big
promoter.
We at Crystal this year woundup doing our refresher and we
brought everybody through andhad them use four handle
toboggans.
Get reacquainted with them,cause there's a lot of places
where you're talking about, youknow, steep stuff, things where
you need that, uh, a solid rearhandle, that four handle comes
(06:17):
in handy.
Steve Rolfe (06:18):
Yeah, when it comes to traversing, I don't, you
know the the flat toboggansdon't traverse as well, and so
there are certainly places inthe backcountry.
If you can get to thebackcountry into the accident by
mostly going straight downhill,then the flat toboggan, has you
(06:38):
know, is as good as anythingelse.
But if you're in reallydifficult terrain, I think
two-handle toboggans have someadvantage.
Murphy (06:46):
Yeah, most of our remote sleds are those four handles.
Shirley Cummings (06:50):
Steve, talk about hand-carrying the toboggan
uphill without a chair carrier.
Murphy (06:56):
Oh, lap-loading.
Steve Rolfe (06:58):
Until a few years, we used to put the toboggans on
our lap and carry them up, andthat worked fine.
The Crystal and the Cascade100s, you know, they're not that
heavy.
One day, Wally and I decided totake a Sun Valley up on our
laps, and this was the shortchair at Hyak, and we almost
(07:25):
were unable to get off the liftby the.
By the time we got to the topthe blood had stopped, you know,
flowing to our legs cause theywere so heavy.
Yeah, and we carried them uplike that until somebody dropped
one um at Stevens pass on aguest.
Murphy (07:44):
On a guest.
Steve Rolfe (07:45):
Yeah, that didn't go well.
Jodie (07:47):
No, you think.
Murphy (07:49):
No, yeah Well, you know I've only been patrolling for 10
, 11 years I think, and you knowI'm lap loaded at Central.
So Kwame Central.
So you know that's notcompletely banned.
We may be banned now, but Well,I'm certain that it's a.
Steve Rolfe (08:10):
That's an area policy.
Yeah, maybe the NSP has anopinion on this, but I'm not
sure that it that's area policy.
Murphy (08:20):
Yeah, I can tell you they don't allow it at Crystal.
That's a huge no-no.
Especially with the wind comingover the top, you'd get a hold
of that thing that would not befun.
Steve Rolfe (08:31):
Things can go wrong , yeah.
Murphy (08:32):
Yeah, very quickly.
Shirley Cummings (08:33):
Steve, were you at Hyak when the Hidden
Valley chair?
We had to tie it that and thepatient to the chair and bring
them up the mountain.
Steve Rolfe (08:44):
Yeah, I skied there .
Yeah Right, I don't remember.
You know it's interesting, Iremember, but I don't remember
actually having to take apatient up the chair.
Shirley Cummings (08:56):
Oh, I hated that.
You know you had to rememberhow many loops to go around the
chair and the patient had to belevel and they couldn't be.
You tested them and the patientstarts talking about not
wanting to go down the mountainon a chairlift.
Steve Rolfe (09:12):
And oh geez, it was well, we we at crystal we had.
We practiced putting loadedtoboggans on chair three and
carrying them up, becausethere's times of the year that
you can't go down Kelly's Gap,and so we would practice that,
and I'm pretty sure that atleast one or two patients in the
(09:32):
history of Crystal have donethat.
But we would avoid it,certainly try to avoid it, if we
could.
Shirley Cummings (09:38):
Well, that's, you were coming up over the lip
at Hyak and then you'd startdown the hill.
That was the worst time forthem and consequently for the
whichever patroller was ridingwith them.
Steve Rolfe (09:54):
Going down a chairlift is a little more
intimidating than going up.
Shirley Cummings (10:00):
Especially if you're lying on your back
strapped in.
Yeah, so what do you rememberabout the national system and
what was going on around then asa patrol director?
You remember getting help fromnational or paying too much or
(10:23):
not paying enough national orpaying too much or not paying
enough, or how were theytreating the senior exam around
that time?
Can you repeat that?
One last sentence how were theytreating the senior exam?
Was that being discussed?
Steve Rolfe (10:43):
whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, or
let's get rid of it, or oh.
I don't remember that debate.
I do remember and I don't knowif this is contemporaneous with
(11:10):
me being director, but I was inleadership for auted some
workshops for the first timethat were transcended.
That were regional workshops.
The criticism, I think, wasthat individual patrollers
coming from what eight or ninedifferent patrols had all
trained differently and didn'tknow exactly what was expected
of them.
As a senior, I was fortunate tohave a very good training
(11:35):
program at Hyak when I became asenior and I thought we had a
pretty good program at Crystal.
I think I led that at one point, but for a short few years, but
I could understand that therewas a lot of controversy.
Jodie (11:49):
People would go oh yeah, I didn't do it.
Steve Rolfe (11:50):
And so Lori said, okay, well, we're going to have
these workshops, so you can comeand we make two or three or
four of these things and we'llshow you what we expect of a
senior, what we expect of asenior and I'm probably a
(12:13):
minority here, as much as I loveLori and tremendous respect for
her.
I thought it usurped theresponsibility of the individual
patrols for training theirpatrollers, but that's the way
it's done now, right, seniormuch, much of senior training is
now done at the regional level.
Shirley Cummings (12:33):
I don't think so.
I mean at least not at the pass.
At the pass you might gettogether with the other areas,
but it's basically somebody onyour patrol trains you and you
go take the test.
Murphy (12:47):
Well, yeah, you're missing, there's two.
You have to take a midterm anda final right.
So you've got to go to thosecalibration clinic as an
instructor initially, and thenyou go back and train your guys
and gals and then, when you comeup to the midterm, everybody
from all the areas that'senrolled in the senior program
(13:09):
gets calibrated on what toexpect.
So you do your ski portion,then you do your unloaded
toboggan, loaded toboggan, andeverybody gets reviewed, and
then you get sent back to yourmountain where you do more
training and then the finalcomes and you wind up having or
sorry, there's two midterms andthen a final.
(13:31):
So, like we had one at um, uh,mount Baker no, where do we have
that?
There was two this year andeverybody gets together and they
uh, you know, showcase whatthey're doing.
Steve Rolfe (13:46):
People who are in the program.
The history of the program isinteresting and I think that
sometimes the goals get a littleconfused.
The original senior exam wasreally the national exam and
that changed in the late 50s,early 60s.
What do you?
Jodie (14:03):
mean the national exam.
Steve Rolfe (14:05):
So in the original ski patrol as Minidoll created
it and then as it emerged, thepatrol was independent of the
ski area.
Patrol came in and signed onand national patrollers were
patrollers that were skilledenough that they could patrol
anywhere and there was anational exam.
(14:26):
Now by the mid-50s I don't knowthe exact history, but I know a
few people who, well, theyprobably passed by now, but they
got their nationals through anexam, not by an appointment.
Gary will remember all this.
But then senior was created asa skill, as a national became an
(14:50):
honor and I got lost a littlebit on this.
But so some of this is the ideathat a senior could patrol at
any ski area within their regionor division.
That was somewhat of adefinition of what a senior was
in the old days and I alwaysthought that that was really not
(15:11):
.
You know, you patrol for yourski area.
There ought to be a common setof skills that you have.
But being able to when I was anew patroller I could walk down
any ski area in the region.
I could walk up and they'd say,sure, go out and patrol.
Now that doesn't happen anymore.
That was somewhat that was partof the mission of being a senior
(15:34):
?
I don't.
It certainly, it certainlyshouldn't be today.
I think being a senior is it'sjust the opportunity to become a
much more excellent patrollerand to fully understand your
area, your area's protocols,which are going to be different.
Crystal's protocols aredifferent than Snoqualmie, and
(15:54):
for any number of reasons.
But to be a senior you ought toknow all the protocols for your
area, and including some thatare completely different than
another area, and that I'msomewhat of a minority in this,
I think, and so to me all theneeds at Snoqualmie and not be
(16:32):
able to ski chair six at CrystalMountain, but you have the
qualities of a senior to me.
So, anyway, that's my politicson the issue.
Murphy (16:45):
Well, jack Ramsey, who has been the senior OET for the
division.
He was there for the region forquite a while.
One of his criteria is that asa senior you should be able to
ski any run within the region ordivision.
So let's just use this as aregion and I have to say I back
(17:08):
that theory and that when you'reskiing you should be able to
hit that run.
Now, whether you're atSuquamish, where I was, and go
to Crystal, when you're testingyou're testing at Mount Baker,
you're testing at CrystalMountain or Alpintal those
usually three places wheresenior tests happen.
Those are all fairly, you know,technically challenging
(17:31):
mountains and you've got to beable to manage that Does
everybody pass.
Steve Rolfe (17:36):
That's an old trope to me.
I think it's insulting to thepeople that that that that areas
like Snoqualmie summit, theidea that that if you ski at
Snoqualmie summit and you can beyou can be an exceptional
patroller but not be able totake a toboggan down powder bowl
.
I don't think that that shouldbe the requirement, but that's
(17:58):
my opinion.
I think that there are a set ofcommon skills, but I just don't
think that it should berequired to be able to ski every
run at every ski area in yourregion, because you don't ski at
a patrollers, only ski at theirown area.
There's no, you don't get toski at another area anymore.
(18:21):
That's long gone.
Murphy (18:22):
Right, yeah, that's true , that's my opinion, and you got
to look pretty doing it.
That's the big thing.
Yeah, when you're hauling atoboggan, or you got to do your
school figures or anything else.
You have to look pretty whileyou're doing it Not physically
pretty, but you have to.
You have to execute, whateverthe skill is, and you've got to
look good doing it Right, andyou've got to ski well.
(18:42):
So that is what you have to beable to do.
So we've got Gary.
We've got Gary here.
Gary Burke (18:49):
How are you?
Sorry, I'm so late.
Murphy (18:52):
You're fine.
I've got a huge list in frontof me.
The list from Gary.
It's three pages.
It is absolutely amazing.
So I, uh, I have to say that Ilooked here and it said join,
join, stevens, pass Ski Patrolor Junior Classification in 1953
(19:13):
.
Is that true?
Jodie (19:15):
Yeah.
Murphy (19:17):
Wow, so how long were you actually on the patrol?
Gary Burke (19:22):
Well, I started off at Stevens with Harry Prezan
Lloyd Burkeye at that time.
I'm sure Steve remembers thosenames.
Steve, how are you doing, buddy?
Steve Rolfe (19:32):
I am doing great, and he walked 10 feet tall when
I was a 17-year-old kid.
You probably were only in your30s, but I thought you were.
I mean, you were old.
Yeah, you were old.
You know a guy who's 30, sorry,you're 17,.
(19:55):
But Lloyd Burkeye and HarryPrusam, those are big names in
the ski patrol history.
Jodie (20:01):
Yeah.
Gary Burke (20:02):
Those are the days when those guys actually walked
on water.
The reason I actually got intothe ski patrol, which is kind of
interesting my folks built theski lodge at Stevens Pass back
in 1951.
And my uncle was the supervisorfor Washington State Highways
(20:29):
and lived up at Stevens Pass andwe used to come up there and
visit him back in those days.
And the Forest Service decidedthat they wanted to build
another ski lodge, only theywanted it over on the opposite
side of the highway for those ofyou that remember which was the
side where the big long highwaygarage was, that they kept all
(20:53):
of the highway equipment in.
Well, at the opposite end ofthat there was an area that was
opened up by the Forest Serviceand they wanted to make it
commercial.
So they decided well, let mebuild a ski lodge and we'll open
it up and see who might beinterested.
And we'll open it up and seewho might be interested.
Well, at that time we hadSportcaster going on and of
(21:16):
course my father wanted to getinto something else and decided,
in conjunction with my uncle,that hey, why don't we put a bid
in for that thing and see if wecan't get that?
Well, he did, and he got thebid.
So we built this doggonethree-story lodge up there and
it was actually.
It was beautiful, it had anA-frame to it and I don't know
if you even remember it, steve.
Steve Rolfe (21:37):
I do.
I do.
When I was, I would stay at theMountaineers and then we'd
sneak out of Mountaineers andwe'd go down to the Summit Inn I
think it was called the SummitInn and we'd go and we'd play
poker and drink beer there, andhell, I was what?
17, 16?
I don't know yeah.
Gary Burke (21:58):
Yeah, well, it was three stories, I think we slept.
The stories two and three wasstrictly for lodging.
I think we slept 90 people inthat place.
And then the first floor wasthe restaurant, a cafeteria type
style.
And so when we started going upthere, lloyd Burkhi and Harry
(22:19):
Prezan started coming over tothe restaurant and we got to
know each other and I gotfascinated by what these guys
were doing up on the slopes withthese things called toboggans.
So they said well, why don'tyou come up and join us and
we'll go skiing?
Well, hey, 1953, I was only ayoungster, my God, I don't even
(22:42):
think I was 17 years old at thetime.
So we went up and startedskiing with them and all of a
sudden they said well, why don'tyou join the ski patrol?
You can come on as a juniormember.
I said, okay, and look whathappened.
So it was a very interestingtime and I got started at
(23:06):
Stevens with Lloyd and Harry,and then I graduated from high
school in 57, and off I went toWashington State University and
my skiing then was over there atthe college ski area in eastern
Washington, and then I wouldcome back once in a while and
(23:26):
ski at Stevens.
Well then my dad got the bugwith some other fellas, decided
Hyak was up for sale atSnoqualmie Pass and they were
having some financial problemsup there and he decided maybe we
should go over to Hyak now andget rid of Stevens Pass.
(23:47):
So they sold Stevens Pass andoff they went to Hyak and they
ended up buying Hyak five guysand of course I had to go to
Hyak.
So when I got over to Hyak theski patrol was basically a small
unit at that time and our goodfriend Bob Hostack was there and
(24:08):
the story got written behind.
Bob Hostack was there and thestory got written behind Bob
Hostack.
From there and off we went upthe line.
Murphy (24:17):
So who's Bob Hostack?
Gary Burke (24:19):
Bob Hostack was a Boeing engineer and he was also
the patrol director at Hyak atthat time and the patrol was
real small.
Steve, I don't remember whenyou started at Hyak.
Steve Rolfe (24:35):
I think it was 67 or 68.
Jodie (24:38):
We have you down as 67.
As in joining NSP, that doesn'tmean your candidate time.
Steve Rolfe (24:45):
I don't remember exactly, but there were 30
people taking on in my class.
That was a lot of people.
Gary Burke (24:54):
Yeah, I think in 62, when I got over there, bob and
I got together and startedsaying, well, let's recruit some
people and let's put a patroltogether.
That's going to be somethingthat's going to be around for a
long time.
So we started building a patrol, starting in 1962, and uh, the
(25:14):
rest is history so when did youguys build your building down
there?
Murphy (25:18):
you know, the one that's at the base for the patrol yeah
, well, that's another story.
Gary Burke (25:25):
oh geez, that building, uh and uh I don't know
what's there today because Ihaven't been up there for quite
a while, but the building thatwe went into, that Steve and I
was in, was another buildingsomewhere on the property that
they moved over there and theyjacked it up, put a foundation
on it and put two buildingstogether to create that current
(25:49):
ski patrol, or the ski patrolthat we were in at that time I
think that's what's still therenow no, what is it now?
It's the same one steve.
Steve Rolfe (25:57):
Really, the last time I was there it hasn't
changed much.
Shirley Cummings (26:01):
Oh really, speak up we have a refrigerator
now, though we don't have toopen that door and put all the
food in the snow well, Iremember is that shirley?
Gary Burke (26:13):
yep, we're sure.
Jodie (26:15):
Yeah, I don't see shirley's video's not on right
at the moment oh, I see, okay,hi shirley, hi gary, how are you
speaking of that?
Steve Rolfe (26:26):
what I remember is people would buy Piazzano.
Again, I was a very naive kid.
People would bring these gallonjugs of Piazzano wine.
It's undrinkable, anyway,they'd drink it.
And then I figured I better fitin, so I would have some too.
You know, I tried not to beobnoxious about it.
And then they would put it outthe window in the back and let
(26:48):
it sit there and uh, and then itwould get snowed over, and so
then a few weeks later, if itmelted, then there was being a
half of a jug of paesano redwine.
Gary Burke (26:58):
Uh, that was the refrigerator it just sounds
revolting well, when we, when wefirst got to that building— so
that building was, you said, 62?
Yeah, the sewer system wasn'teven hooked up yet, and
that's—Shirley probably canremember that too.
(27:20):
I mean, it was—we were reallyin the ancient times when we
took that building over.
Murphy (27:29):
Holy cow, so you smashed—because yeah, I've
walked into that building overHoly cow, so you'd smash,
because, yeah, I've walked intothat building.
And now that you say that itwas two buildings that were
sandwiched together, it makes alot of sense because that first
aid room right, correct me ifI'm wrong, shirley If I'm
standing looking at there, thefirst aid room is on the right
side and then it looks likeanother building where you've
got, you know, the boot up roomand there's a wood stove in
(27:50):
there and a kitchen.
That doesn't look like itbelonged, but it was put in
there.
Okay, so that's all.
And you said 62 that went in.
Gary Burke (27:59):
Well, it was about that time I'd have to go back
and actually look.
When Skip Voorhees, who was theprior owner to Hyak, who sold
out to my father and four orfive other guys, bill Romans,
became the new manager.
Executive manager of theorganization.
(28:19):
Shirley, do you remember whatyear that was?
Shirley Cummings (28:27):
I'm thinking it must have been 65 or 6.
You know, gary was managing theski shop for REI then.
But we slept in the buildingand when you came into one of
the doors where the tunnel isnow, there was a wood stove.
Gary Burke (28:44):
Yeah.
Shirley Cummings (28:46):
And then they've changed the dorms so
that instead of being parallelone way they're now parallel the
other way.
But and we all slept in thefirst aid room, Remember I don't
remember anybody in the otherrooms, but ski patrol was real
nice to us and we had in thearea gave us Saturday night
(29:08):
dinner as a part of our mealtips?
Steve Rolfe (29:13):
Oh my God, we would get it.
I would get like $2 and 50cents for patrolling for a whole
weekend credit or somethinglike that, and that was enough
to get dinner to dinner andlunch and breakfast or something
at the.
Oh my gosh.
Gary Burke (29:33):
Those are the primitive days, Steve.
Steve Rolfe (29:39):
I would somehow hitch my way up to Crystal and
I'm just looking around allthese older guys, and then they
get me these meal chits.
I just felt like I was in hogheaven, Meal chit, and I didn't
have to sleep in the snow.
You slept in the snow?
No, I didn't have to.
I mean, I slept in the dorm.
I didn't sleep in the first aidroom.
(29:59):
That was for the adults.
Jodie (30:02):
Okay.
Murphy (30:05):
All right.
So I'm looking at your resumehere.
It says you wound up gettingyour national appointment in
1966, and your number is what?
Gary Burke (30:14):
2997.
Oh man that's good.
Murphy (30:18):
You got a good memory there.
You passed your memory recall.
So how did that feel back in1966 to get that national
appointment?
How old were you?
How old were you.
Gary Burke (30:31):
How old, was I?
Jeez, I got to think about thatman.
Murphy (30:36):
Need a calculator.
Gary Burke (30:39):
That was 66.
We did that, so this is 2025,1966.
No, that can't be right it's 60.
I don't know however old I am.
It's okay.
But yeah, I really got intothis ski patrol thing and in in
(31:06):
65 the company too my companyalso was becoming the official
supplier to the National SkiPatrol the red jackets that
everybody has worn.
White Stag originally startedthe program called Rainier Red,
(31:29):
which is the official NationalSki Patrol color, and so after I
graduated from Wazoo and cameto work into the company, white
Stag and Sportcaster kind of gottogether to try to see who was
going to supply the jackets tothe National Ski Patrol.
(31:49):
And at that time I think WhiteStag was trying to do some of it
and of course I was part of theSki Patrol and I said, well, we
got to get into it.
So it became very interesting,because now I'm part of the Ski
Patrol and then I had to go toDenver sometimes and take
various models of the jacket,which we eventually had, a
(32:12):
women's and a men's, and we hada heavier one and a lighter one,
then we created a down one, sowe had about four or five models
, and so then when we became theofficial supplier, that was an
interesting time.
So I really got into the skipatrol and Shirley has been with
(32:33):
me ever since I became a patroldirector up through the ranks
and it's been a long, wonderfuljourney with her being the
secretary and my backup and myadvisor and help.
And when we needed additionalhelp she had Gary number two, or
(32:54):
maybe he was number one and Iwas number two, or it depends on
if you're talking about thefamily, if you're talking about
the ski patrol, but she couldnever forget our names because
when she called Gary, two of usanswered.
Whenever we did anything forthe ski patrol, both Shirley and
Gary were always on deck andit's been a wonderful, wonderful
(33:15):
trip.
Shirley Cummings (33:16):
Talk about managed change.
Gary Burke (33:21):
Talk about what?
Shirley Cummings (33:22):
Managed change .
Jodie (33:26):
I can't quite hear you.
Managed change.
Gary Burke (33:28):
Managed change.
Jodie (33:29):
Yeah, george Whitman I can't quite hear Manage change,
manage change, manage change,yeah.
Shirley Cummings (33:32):
George Whitman and Marlon.
Jodie (33:36):
Marlon and Whitman.
Gary Burke (33:39):
George Whitman and.
Steve Rolfe (33:39):
Marlon Gill.
Yeah, yeah, there was a timewhen you spent a lot of time
with different patrols keepingthem from getting fired Yep.
A lot of time with differentpatrols keeping them from
getting fired, yep.
You used to say you were partof the reconciliation or
remediation service or something.
Gary Burke (33:59):
Well, we had another guy in there who really
aggravated the situation by thename of Kurt Beam.
Oh yes, and this clan that theyhad, and those guys were out of
(34:27):
Stevens Pass at that time whokind of was the majority of our
division and they used to dothings that upset National and
it became a real go-around ring,you might say.
And yeah, we had a lot ofbackdoor, backroom talking about
(34:51):
keeping everybody happy so wedidn't get kicked out of the
National Ski Patrol.
But it was just one of thosethings the growing pains and the
board at that time was not asstrong as what it became moving
forward and we had a lot ofrebels and a lot of rebel
thinking and the rebel thinkingsometimes wasn't in concert with
(35:15):
what the national thinking was.
But, as Shirley knows, therewere times we smoked on the
peace pipe with a lot of peoplefor a lot of reasons.
Knows there were times we smokeon the peace pipe with a lot of
people for a lot of reasons,trying to keep things going in
the right direction and not getkicked out of the national ski
patrol.
Murphy (35:31):
But okay, so you got to give us an example.
So what are some of the thingsthat used to happen that, uh,
frayed the relationship betweenthe northwest and national?
Gary Burke (35:44):
Well, Kurt Beam was a unique individual in his own
right.
Did you folks ever remember him?
Jodie (35:53):
I've heard the name only.
Steve Rolfe (35:55):
I went to his funeral and found out all sorts
of stuff that I didn't knowabout him, but Kurt Beam was
quite a character.
Gary Burke (36:02):
Kurt Beam was a German fellow and he had a real
heavy accent and he had a lot ofopinions at times that were not
in concert with the nationalpolicy, sometimes come down
(36:26):
through the ranks into theregions and some of the regions
did not want to accept some ofthe policies and the philosophy
that Kurt Beam had, andsometimes it got really exciting
and it really was a potpourriof stuff mixed up and it wasn't
until, you know, we kind of gotKurt to get retired and after
(36:48):
Kurt we had Marlon, wasn't itMarlon after Kurt?
Shirley Cummings (36:54):
Yeah, I think so yeah.
Gary Burke (36:55):
Marlon came in and Marlon settled everything down
and got everything back on trackand Marlon eventually became a
national director.
But along the way you followedMarlon what's?
Shirley Cummings (37:09):
that you followed Marlon, so we had a
clean sweep for a while.
Gary Burke (37:15):
Yeah, then I followed Marlon.
But in an organization thissize that had about 22,000
members at that time Iunderstand we're up to about 30
now there's always going to bevarious philosophies and in the
board of director meetingssometimes things got pretty hot
(37:37):
and they would have to callrecess of the national board
meeting to have people to cooldown.
You're kidding, go out into thehallway and talk to your allies
and you know.
And then let's come back in andgo at this again, because back
as the National Ski Patrol wasgrowing, we had these
(37:57):
philosophical differences.
And then we had these legalsituations that came up that we
had to abide by.
And then we had the skiindustries of America that we
had to abide by.
And then we had the SkiIndustries of America that was
starting to have influence onNational Ski Patrol.
And then we had theProfessional Ski Patrollers
Association who got involved andI mean this thing was a hot pot
(38:19):
purree as we developed and grewalong.
And then we had Ed Erickson whocame along and was a national
and grew along.
And then we had Ed Erickson whocame along and was a national
executive.
He was the executive in chargeof the office there and he had
his own philosophies andsometimes it wasn't in concert
with the board or the nationaldirector, chuck Schobinger, and
(38:49):
these guys.
I'm telling you it was like, I'msure, the way some of these
countries get together and argue, fight things out, it was just
something else.
Oh my goodness, it was a lot ofstuff went on that the local
patrollers didn't hear or see,but they saw the end results of
the philosophy or what theywanted to try to do.
And even today, going into thisEMT thing, it was a hot paris
(39:11):
at that time whether we wantedto go beyond the American Red
Cross of having to take thestandard and the advanced course
and the CPR courses.
And then they introduced theEMT Emergency Medical Technician
rank thing came in, and thatwas of course a state program,
(39:31):
not an American Red Crossprogram, and then we were having
cross-references going onbetween those two things and
that was a hot potato for awhile.
So it was fun at times and attimes it wasn't fun.
It was very, very discerning.
Murphy (39:50):
So you were the region director here for a while.
And then I'm looking at yourresume.
You wound up being theassistant division director from
76 to 77, national financecommittee member 77 to 82,
division director here from 77to 82, and then national board
(40:12):
rep.
So you sat on the nationalboard for a while.
Gary Burke (40:17):
Yeah, I was on the board as the division director
and as a national board rep.
Oh wow, and we have nationalboard reps now too, in each
division.
Murphy (40:29):
So, what were the biggest challenges that you had
when you were sitting on theboard?
I mean, you have to balancewhat patrollers want and what
the area wants, and you know, asyou said, the EMTs were trying
to come in there.
How did you balance that, orwhat was your mindset to make?
Steve Rolfe (40:47):
all that work.
Gary Burke (40:52):
Well, as Shirley knows, we had to have good
communications within thedivision.
There was a lot of telephoningand a lot of getting together
and we had guys like Bill Savorywho was the Crystal Mountain
Patrol Director, who wasprobably one of the most
(41:16):
outspoken not in a bad way, butan outspoken patrol director who
was building Crystal Mountainfrom day one at the time.
And the regional meetings forPacific Northwest region had the
major influence, I believe, onthe rest of the division.
So after I moved from region todivision I was able to take
(41:42):
some of the philosophy from theNorthwest region and apply it to
the rest of the division andtry to get everybody on an even
keel, talking the same language,going along with the same
philosophy, and then carryingthat forward to the national
level.
But boy, let me tell you, theEastern division is so wildly
different than the rest of thedivisions that there were times
(42:06):
when we would have thesenational meetings and we'd get
in these big arguments that well, okay, it may be good for you,
but it's not good for us.
And then maybe the Midwestdivision would speak up and say,
no, wait a minute, it's notgoing to be good for us.
It may be good for you guys,but it's not going to be good
for us.
So you always had thisnegotiation thing going on to
(42:30):
make sure that it worked foreverybody, because all the
division directors had to goback to their respective
divisions and sell the programto the regions and the regions
had to sell it down to thepatrols.
And sometimes some of thatphilosophy was interesting.
Murphy (42:48):
Can you give us an example from back in the day?
Gary Burke (42:51):
Oh man, I don't even know if I can.
I think probably some of thebiggest problems was the exams
that we had to give, or startedto give, and trying to get
everybody to study on the samestuff.
So when they took the exams onthe yearly basis that they were
(43:14):
going to be able to pass thisstuff, because some of the
people didn't grasp it and ifthey didn't pass it, you know,
then they couldn't be part ofthe patrol for that coming year.
I think a lot of this was kindof how you put the information
together for the refreshercourses and what's going to be
in and who's going to do it andhow are you going to do it.
(43:34):
How are you going to do theactual physical aspect of it?
We used to argue about thisstuff all the time on a national
level because it was differentfor everybody, because it was
different for everybody, and sopeople didn't have the same
quality of instructors in theirdivision that some of the other
divisions had, and it wasn'tbecause they couldn't find them
(43:56):
or they couldn't do it, it wasjust, you know, people did
things differently in differentparts of the country.
It's real tough an organizationof this size trying to get
everybody on the same page, atthe same time, doing the same
thing for the same reason.
To come up with the sameobjective that the National Ski
Patrol stood for.
Steve Rolfe (44:17):
Standardizing is, I think is what you're getting to
.
He was really at the nexus ofthis.
There was a huge cultural fightgoing on within the Ski Patrol.
Ski Patrols had originallyemerged as independent
organizations associated withthe NSP, so I mean the patrols
(44:39):
didn't have much operationalresponsibility.
They had no operationalresponsibilities, they were
clubs.
In some ways they were clubs,in some ways they were
operational units.
In some ways they responded toarea management, in some ways
they were independent and itattracted a lot of hard-headed
(44:59):
people, as Gary kind ofdiscussed.
And so the cultural differencesbetween just patrols within a
region or division, and then youcan imagine the cultural
differences between differentdivisions, were staggering and
many people didn't have the bigpicture.
They looked at it from theirsense of the world.
(45:20):
They didn't stand back and seehow it all fit together.
It was more of a fight than itwas to try to pull it together.
I can see it now.
When I was young and I waswatching Gary do this, it was
much dimmer to me but it was astaggering cultural change.
He also had the, I think, whenhe was on the board.
(45:41):
You had an executive directorthat wanted to make huge changes
to the NSP and you ended uphaving to fire the guy right.
Gary Burke (45:51):
Yeah, yeah, he got fired.
Steve Rolfe (45:53):
Yeah Again.
So then, not only did you havedifferences in patrols and, as
you said, the Ski Area IndustryAssociation had different
expectations area managers, thenyou had even in your own
organization the guy you you hadwas running the organization
wants to take it in a differentplace than than the board wants.
So it was a lot of, but it madeit fun.
Murphy (46:14):
Yeah, it's interesting and you know that still goes on
today, because we wind uptalking to the division
directors and you know they comeback and talk to us and they
talk about how different theEast coast is and what they do
versus what we do out West, andso I don't.
It sounds like that has been anongoing issue for like 30 years
(46:38):
here.
I thought it was, you know,like oh okay, Probably from 1936
, 38.
It's like have you ever seen onthe East Coast they run outside
the handles.
Have you ever seen that in atoboggan?
Jodie (46:56):
There's always debates on that on the social media.
Yeah, so you got to look,because this is like an East
Coast thing and I have neverdone outside the handles.
Murphy (47:05):
I couldn't even imagine doing that at Crystal.
But you know, you see people onthe East Coast where they're
outside the handle.
You know navigating a mogulfield.
I'm like God.
Jodie (47:16):
And they're vice versa.
They can't imagine you guysdoing what you're doing.
Steve Rolfe (47:20):
Well, they're wrong .
Murphy (47:23):
I mean, I just don't know any big mountains back East
.
I mean, am I wrong?
Steve Rolfe (47:28):
There's a, there's a few.
Murphy (47:31):
Oh Stoas.
Steve Rolfe (47:32):
Yeah, there's a, there's a few, but yeah, a lot
of them are 500 vertical feet.
Yeah, okay, and the Midwest thesame way.
Murphy (47:39):
Now, we're not talking down, I just want to make sure.
Jodie (47:41):
No that's my point.
Steve Rolfe (47:42):
Let's clarify here that's my point is that is, they
have different needs.
Murphy (47:46):
Right.
Steve Rolfe (47:48):
NSP needs to recognize that it's an
amalgamation of a bunch ofpeople with similar interests,
but not identical interests.
That's your answer.
Murphy (48:00):
Or environments, I should say.
Jodie (48:02):
Yeah right, the different environments that way.
Environments I should say yeahright, the different
environments that way.
So, gary, you, shirley, maybeyou need to ask this question.
You had some specific questionsfor Gary.
One was about the groups herecruited.
Gary Burke (48:22):
About what About?
Shirley Cummings (48:22):
what I think that you had a unique talent for
.
If the ski patrol had a need,like to get along with the
Forest Service, I remember thatyou Ken White wasn't it Ken
White?
or who was the guy up at Summityou recruited these people as
(48:45):
friends and I remember you know,not outside of patrol, you were
going to lunch or you weremeeting them for lunch or
something.
And when we needed to dosomething with first aid, when
our relationship with AmericanRed Cross wasn't so great, I
think you recruited NormBottenberg and I remember one of
(49:09):
your comments was well, we'llteach him how to ski.
The important thing is that heknows the first aid.
I think there were so manyareas where if we needed
somebody, you went out and foundthem and then we made them a
patroller.
Jodie (49:28):
That's interesting.
Gary Burke (49:30):
Well, ken White was a really interesting guy.
We became really close personalfriends when he showed up at
Snoqualmie Pass as the new snowranger.
It just so happens that I wasreturning the day that he
arrived at Snoqualmie Pass.
The weekend I was returningfrom the divisional convention
(49:53):
in Yakima and I had to go overSnoqualmie Pass, and so when I
got to Snoqualmie Pass, therewas a moving van there and I
couldn't help but stop.
I went in and here's Ken andPat White, and these two kids
introduced myself and that wasthe start of what turned out to
be a very long personalrelationship.
(50:16):
And what was really knocking meoff my shoes is when he says
well, I got to tell yousomething that might surprise
you.
And I said well, what's that?
He says I've never skied, Idon't know how to ski, and I'm
now the new snow ranger forSnoqualmie Pass.
I looked at him and I remembersaying I don't think that's a
really funny joke, ken.
Not a joke, it's true.
(50:38):
And I said well, we got tocorrect that.
So when the snow fell, thefirst thing I did was I talked
to who was the patrol directorat that time I can see him, but
I can't remember his name and Isaid we've got to assign a group
(51:03):
of three or four skiers toteach Ken White how to ski.
And so he started takinglessons from the ski patrol,
unbeknownst to anybody andstarted to ski.
And it took us through thatwhole season before he finally
(51:23):
started to be able to come downthe hill by himself and could
make it, and, as it turned out,he ended up becoming a pretty
good skier.
Oh wow, it was Never heard thatstory.
Steve Rolfe (51:36):
Gary, because he was a good skier.
Gary Burke (51:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, the poor guy.
Just it was something else.
And then his kids startedskiing and then eventually Pat
started skiing.
It was something else, and thenhis kids started skiing and
then eventually Pat startedskiing.
So we skied a lot together andhe instituted some new forest
service procedures for ski areasthat are in effect today, and I
(52:00):
think that the relationshipbetween him and the ski patrol
became a very, very close one.
And then when he got assigned asthe official, any type of
rescues or highway accidentsthat happened on Soqualmi Pass
both Kittitas County Sheriff andKing County Sheriff gave the
(52:21):
responsibility to Ken White tostart and assume responsibility
for all search and rescueefforts, even on the highway,
while he was up there as a snowranger.
Otherwise we had to wait forhighway patrol, state patrol or
for the sheriff from Kittitas orKing County to show up.
So it really smoothed over therelationship and at that time he
(52:46):
then wanted to have what wecall the Greater Snoqualmie Pass
Avalanche Rescue Plan, which Ibelieve that was back in 71 and
72.
And I ended up getting involvedin that thing and the two
sheriffs decided to cometogether and form a plan in
which the Forest Service wouldassume the responsibility until
(53:08):
necessary law enforcement couldarrive on the scene.
And it really worked wellbecause, as Steve knows, when
there was avalanches and carsgot, trucks got buried, ken took
over and he did a masterful job.
Spart was formed by that timeand down the road we went, wow,
back country or whatever it was.
As a matter of fact, ken wascalled upon on several other
(53:30):
instances to come and helpconduct search and rescue
operations for Sheriff'sDepartment because they didn't
really know what to do in someof these areas.
I remember the Palmer rescuewas one of them and Ken would
come in and basically take overand help direct some of these
areas.
I remember the Palmer Rescuewas one of them and Ken would
come in and basically take overand help direct some of these
rescues, primarily from what helearned up Snoqualmie Pass with
(53:54):
the ski patrol and the growingof the ski patrol and Ken White
together.
Jodie (53:59):
Wow, Now you had down an avalanche patch in 1965.
What does that mean?
Gary Burke (54:10):
an avalanche patch in 1965?
What does that mean?
When the new bridge was put inon the highway and they split
the highway over on the oppositeside of the valley, we were
always concerned, and so was theState Patrol and the Highway
Department, that somebody wasgoing to go off the high side of
that stretch that goes acrossthe valley there.
So it was decided that we weregoing to put together some
(54:31):
rescue equipment.
If that happened, that we wouldhave to go over the side of
this bridge and rappel down intothe canyon.
And so an avalanche cache wasput together along with rescue
equipment that would be on thescene, and it was put at the end
, the south end of the bridge,underneath the bridge, in a
(54:52):
compartment that the highwaydepartment helped put together,
and it's probably still theretoday.
Wow, I don't know.
But SPARC became kind ofprimarily responsible for that
and fortunately we never everhad a car go over off that
bridge of that portion.
But if it did, the equipmentwas there to seek the rescue.
Steve Rolfe (55:13):
No, that's not true .
I remember I was director atthe time and I was pretty young
and I'm trying to remember Waynewrote the plan for the skeet
for us, and who was the guy that?
Anyway, it was five years latersomebody did go over the bridge
.
Gary Burke (55:31):
Oh, they did.
Steve Rolfe (55:32):
Okay, over the bridge.
The challenge is if you were togo slowly.
It's going westbound At 70miles an hour.
It's designed perfectly for 70miles an hour but if you go
slowly you realize how deeply,how sloped it is and with a
little bit of snow on it andsome snow on the low side, you
(55:52):
can easily imagine a car slidingdown and going right over.
We wrote this plan.
I was.
I was director, but I wasn't, Iwas.
Somebody else did it and and,sure enough, five years later,
somebody did go over it.
They didn't make it.
It's a long drop.
Murphy (56:10):
I was going to say it's a long way down.
Steve Rolfe (56:13):
No, so it was Gary's concern he was.
My recollection is is that theDOT was not they.
They drug their feet on it andGary was very instrumental in
making sure we had a plan.
Jodie (56:27):
Wow.
Steve Rolfe (56:28):
Getting people together.
Jodie (56:31):
Wow, yeah.
So, gary, you mentioned aboutShirley being your right hand.
You got a division certificateof appreciation supporting the
Skier 2 program.
What can you tell us about that?
Gary Burke (56:48):
Probably Shirley could tell more about that.
I was in favor of that programfrom day one and, Shirley,
you're going to have to talkabout that because I can't
remember.
Shirley Cummings (57:00):
Well, gary was one of the patrollers that came
up on Wednesdays and we hadpatrollers from, I think, six
different patrols that came upon Wednesday and we got our
students from Pacific School,which was a school for special
needs kids, kids and they had amental age of between five and
(57:27):
about 35, but a chronologicalage they were.
All that was theirchronological age.
Their mental age was about fiveto 10, around in there and we
were able to, through mostlythrough donations of patrollers,
collect equipment.
(57:48):
So the students got freeequipment and Earl Papik was
able to get a National Guard busdonated and the Hyatt
Corporation gave tickets to allthese kids.
And so we had one patroller andone student come up on
(58:11):
Wednesdays and I remember one ofthe little girls that I had
that had Down syndrome withsupposedly her teacher said she
had a mental age of 55.
And we got her on the chairliftand that was our big goal for
these kids.
They wanted the goal to get onthe chairlift and that was our
big goal for these kids.
They wanted the goal to get onthe chairlift and for some of
them it was pretty scary beingup there but we had.
(58:33):
I mean it was fun to work withpatrollers from five other
patrols.
Every Wednesday we'd see eachother and we got to be really
good friends with these kids.
Joyce Hill was the one that hadthe idea and she worked with the
ski area and I did all thetyping to request the stuff for
(58:57):
the program.
And Kurt Beam was supposedlygoing to carry our request to
National to give it the Nationalblessing.
But when he came home he toldus well, he thought about it and
he decided maybe the Ski Patroldidn't want to be associated
with children who had problems.
(59:18):
So he decided not to pursue it.
But we did it for about sixyears.
It was fun times.
Yeah, not to pursue it, but wedid it for about six years.
Jodie (59:30):
It was fun times.
Murphy (59:32):
Yeah, wow, so that program was thwarted by somebody
who made the unilateraldecision and then just walked
away.
That's too bad.
Jodie (59:42):
Yeah.
Shirley Cummings (59:43):
You know, in those days there were no copy
machine.
I do remember a copy machinebecause every time I did the
patrol minutes or the region orthe division minutes, it was on
mimeograph.
And Gary had this greatsecretary at Sportcaster who
would always just happen to helpus do some of that, happened to
(01:00:04):
help us do some of that.
You've got mimeo.
If you were mimeographingsomething you usually got
mimeograph ink.
You know, all over you.
Jodie (01:00:13):
The purple ink.
Murphy (01:00:14):
Yeah, but you know I used to love to smell the paper
after you'd get that for a testat school.
Shirley Cummings (01:00:20):
But our application for the Skiers 2
program was in one big thing,and so you couldn't have an
application that you'd give thesame one the next year because
it was gone.
You'd have to start all over.
I mean even awards if you weregoing to nominate your patrol,
(01:00:42):
and I have the copy of the onethat we submitted, but it was
all one of a-a-kind things thatwere in stuff, no copies.
So once you used it or lost it,you started over.
Jodie (01:00:57):
Oh my goodness.
So Shirley and Gary, what isthis about Pete Mannion and
battery acid?
And Gary, what is this aboutPete Mannion and battery acid?
Shirley Cummings (01:01:05):
I thought that was a good example of Gary Burt
dealing with stuff on thepatrol.
Do you remember that, Gary?
Gary Burke (01:01:12):
No.
Shirley Cummings (01:01:14):
The night that Pete Mannion and the battery
acid blew up in his face.
Gary Burke (01:01:20):
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that.
Shirley Cummings (01:01:28):
Tell the story , shirley.
Oh well, I was hoping you wouldtell the story, but I remember
(01:01:48):
waking up in the first aid roomand you were jumping up and you
had your white skivvies on andyou started yelling because
somebody was bringing in Peteand his face was all red and you
were screaming at some peopleto get the water running.
That was during the time thatthe railroad was siphoning water
off the water tower, so wedidn't have water.
You were yelling at somebodyelse to start melting snow on
the stove that was in thatcenter room.
(01:02:13):
You told some other people toget ready for a rescue going
outside and at the same time youwere using the telephone and, I
think, two radios, as Iremember, because we had 13
inches of cascade concrete inthe parking lot.
(01:02:36):
You had to get some kind of apacker in there because our
packer was out of commission.
Having, because our packer wasout of commission having, you
know, hurt Pete and the meantimeyou're all yelling about keep
flushing, keep flushing, keepflushing, and the water was
(01:02:56):
dribbling by now.
So we had to get people to getsnow, to melt snow, and you were
talking to the area manager on,I think, one radio and to the
state patrol on another to openthe highway.
And you were talking tosomebody, I just remember you
juggling.
Anyway, they said that and ittook an hour for the ambulance
(01:03:20):
to get to the edge of theparking lot.
To the edge of the parking lotand then they some patrollers I
think took him out in a tobogganto the end of the parking lot,
which is a quarter mile long,and they said had we not if we
hadn't had, if we had water, itwas important that we had
(01:03:41):
flushed his eyes for about anhour.
That that's what saved hiseyesight.
If we had just taken him to theambulance right away, he
wouldn't have gotten flushed solong and he might not have had.
Murphy (01:03:55):
So how did a battery blow up in his face?
Shirley Cummings (01:03:57):
He was trying to jumpstart it.
Gary Burke (01:04:00):
I remember something about that too.
He was doing something that heshouldn't have been doing.
It backfired on him.
Ouch, yeah, he was really luckyyeah, I'd say so oh my goodness
.
Jodie (01:04:18):
So um also gary you.
You were a division directorright for several years and but
also on the board of directors,and did you find that the
division directors earlier ondid a lot more decision-making
than they do now?
Gary Burke (01:04:35):
Yeah, yes, I think so.
Each division was kind of itsown autonomy of its own autonomy
and I think they were doing thethings that fit the needs of
the particular division, becausewhen I went to some of these
(01:04:56):
other divisions the way thatthey operated was not the same
way we did.
Their philosophy might havebeen different in the way they
did things might have beendifferent in the way they did
things.
I was in first aid rooms andyou know, probably one of the
biggest first aid rooms thatI've ever seen was at Crystal
Mountain and probably SnoqualmiePass and some of these others.
(01:05:17):
They just have really smallfirst aid type rooms.
But you know, the Ski Patrolwent through such a growing
period and as it grew, the firstaid part of it, I think our
national director, our nationaldoctor, was Bowman, oh, if I
(01:05:40):
remember.
Is that right, shirley?
Shirley Cummings (01:05:41):
I think so, and he was writing a book.
Gary Burke (01:05:44):
Unfortunately, he was very progressive and he was
trying to get standardization inthe first aid rooms, in the
training, in the exams andeverything that was doing it,
and he had a monumental job todeal with.
So did Avalanche and so didcommunications they all did.
(01:06:06):
But the first aid, which iswhat we were really all about,
was the biggest part of thiswhole thing and I think it was
Dr Warren Bowman, if I rememberright.
He was a super guy, he reallywas, and I think he did a
wonderful job as we grew throughthe years, trying to get
(01:06:30):
everybody on some kind of astandardized system, even though
each of the divisions mighthave been doing things a little
bit differently.
Premature, primitive, whateveryou want to call it Probably
primitive was a good example.
Jodie (01:06:45):
Yeah, but that standardization was huge.
I had a rescue back in 2011,and we had patrollers from
Michigan, we had Washington, wehad Oregon, we had Utah and we
had a case where we had twopeople and people that never
(01:07:06):
trained with each other, neverseen each other, totally
different divisions, and youcould tell the training just
clicked for all of them justreally well.
So it was nice to see that.
I really would appreciate,because we want to hear more
about all this stuff that you'vebeen involved with.
Murphy (01:07:25):
A little more history, yeah.
Jodie (01:07:28):
It's great.
Murphy (01:07:28):
You can't deliver a resume like that and have 30
minutes to try and go over thosethings.
I got to say, Gary, I wasimpressed.
I have seen some ski patrolresumes.
They pale in comparison to whatyou have here.
Shirley Cummings (01:07:43):
I agree.
Jodie (01:07:45):
Absolutely.
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