Baseball's all-time hits leader Pete Rose has finally been reinstated by Major League Baseball—though only after his death. In a stunning announcement that shook the baseball world, Commissioner Rob Manfred removed both Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson from the league's "permanently ineligible" list, stating that "a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game."
The timing of this decision gives new significance to my 2017 interview with Rose, which I've shared in full on this episode. During our conversation, Rose displayed remarkable candor about his gambling-related ban, refusing to make excuses or cast blame, instead acknowledging: "I'm not going to complain about not being in the baseball Hall of Fame because I made the mistakes. I'm the one that messed that up." His approach to taking responsibility offers a powerful lesson about accountability and facing the consequences of one's actions.
Beyond the controversy, Rose shares fascinating insights about his legendary career with the Cincinnati Reds' "Big Red Machine" dynasty of the 1970s. He describes the emotional nine-minute standing ovation he received after breaking Ty Cobb's all-time hits record in 1985, and how his thoughts turned to his father, coaches, and mentors who weren't alive to witness the achievement. Rose also offers thoughtful perspectives on other controversial Hall of Fame cases, including steroid-era stars like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, revealing a willingness to forgive that stands in contrast to baseball's long stance toward his own case.
As baseball grapples with its complicated relationship to its legends, Rose's reinstatement raises profound questions about forgiveness, legacy, and whether punishment should extend beyond the grave. Whether you agree with the decision or not, this conversation with the man who collected more hits than anyone in baseball history provides valuable context for understanding one of sport's most complex figures.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Pats Peeps podcast, number 261.
261, yeah, hey, now goodmorning.
It's May 14th, the morning ofMay 14th.
I'm looking out my studiowindows into the beautiful
foothills of Northern California.
It is a pleasant spring day.
(00:30):
Sun is back out, although it isa little cold this morning.
Thank you, thank you forlistening.
My name is Pat Pat Walsh.
I am the host of the Pat WalshShow as heard on KFBK Radio in
Sacramento, 93.1 FM, 1530 AM,and, of course, streaming on all
(00:51):
of your streaming platforms.
You know what made my night?
One of the things that made mynight on last night's show is
when a caller called up and Iapologize that I can't remember
the name of the caller thatcalled up.
It was a gentleman called up,said you know, pat, and I'm
getting this more and more on myradio show.
He says I travel a lot and nowI'm listening to your Pat's
(01:13):
Peeps podcast.
I was so excited about that.
So he says I'm driving and Ilistened to the Pat's Peeps
podcast and I really like it.
And I listen to the Pat's Peepspodcast and I really like it,
it's fun to listen to, and soyou know what it's, thank you.
(01:34):
So it's people like that.
And then they call my radioshow and say that, which really
helps to grow the audience.
Yesterday I had a birthday lunch.
Now I could have done a podcastfrom there, but some friends
threw a little birthday lunchfor me and there was three of us
celebrating a birthday thisweek Tony and Darcy and my
friend Dan Knapp, who we're allon tomorrow.
Their birthdays are tomorrow,mine is Friday, so I didn't, you
(01:56):
know, I could have done apodcast, but I just wanted to
let it be what it was and notalways be on.
So, with that in mind, what itwas and not always be on.
So with that in mind, I'm goingto do my best to make that up
to you today.
It's a double bonus Wednesday.
I want to do two of them todayNow.
(02:18):
One I will be doing because Iwant to pay respect to this
gentleman.
The other I'll do after mydreaded dental appointment today
.
Yes, and more dental hell,anyhow.
But on Pat's Peeps 261,.
You know, in case you missedthe news yesterday I'm sure many
(02:39):
of you did not, but I'm sureyou heard about it I talked
about this on my show last night.
Pete Rose and Shoeless JoeJackson are among the players
reinstated by Major LeagueBaseball.
In an historic decisionYesterday, mlb removed Pete Rose
(02:59):
and Shoeless Joe Jackson, twoof the sport's most famous
players, who were previouslykicked out of baseball for
gambling on the game.
But they have reinstated themfrom the league's permanently
eligible list.
Why?
Because they're dead.
Well, that's what they said.
That's what Rob Manfred said inregards to Rule 21.
(03:21):
He says in my view, once anindividual has passed away, the
purposes of rule 21 have beenserved.
He went on to say obviously, aperson along with us cannot
represent a threat to theintegrity of the game, although
I don't think that either.
And if, moreover, he said it's,it's hard to conceive of a
penalty that is more of adeterrent effect than the one
that lasts a lifetime with noreprieve.
(03:42):
Okay, he makes a point there.
But again, if that, if that'sthe case, when you say, well,
they can't represent the threatto the integrity of the game, I
don't want to go through mywhole show again last night.
But you know, I don't know ifhe knows this, but Shoeless
Joe's been dead since 1951.
So why lump him in and do atwofer with Pete Rose?
Why attach Pete Rose to that?
(04:10):
Or why attach Shoeless Joe toPete Rose?
I don't want to repeat my show.
Like I said, I did that lastnight.
Hopefully you had anopportunity to hear it.
If not, that is on the freeiHeart app and you can hear the
podcast on my radio show, thePat Wall Show.
But I bring it up because in2017, I had done an interview
(04:30):
with Pete Rose and at the timehe was going to come to
Sacramento.
He was going to be doing a cardshow.
Pete always loved doing thecard shows and we had an
opportunity to talk to Pete andwe talked about a variety of
things, everything from theupcoming card show to the fact
(04:53):
that they were going to put up astatue to him in Cincinnati,
outside the ballpark to theMajor League Baseball Hall of
Fame.
So, if you don't mind, withoutfurther ado, I would like to
play my interview with Pete Rose.
All right?
Yeah, we are joined and I'mhonored to be joined by
(05:15):
Baseball's Hits King.
We're talking to Pete Rose andI'm very excited, very honored,
to have you with us, pete.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, it's my pleasure and I'm looking forward
to Saturday, to come into yourtown.
I've been to Sacramento a longtime and hopefully we'll have a
lot of people come out to theshow and talk some baseball and
you know, just have a good day.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You know.
So, pete's coming here.
You're coming here for thefirst Sacramento Sports
Collector's Show.
This is going to be out atMcClellan Air Force Base and
it's this Saturday, and this is10 am to 5 pm.
And I tell you what, if I werea kid, I would be so excited,
pete, to know if my parents saidSon, you know where we're going
today.
Where are we going today?
Pops, we're going to go meetPete Rose, baseball's all-time
(06:01):
hits leader.
So I can only imagine you mustreally get a kick out of the
kids that come out there to meetyou.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You know, maybe kids that never saw you play the game
, but they know your reputationWell to be honest with you, I
sign autographs about four and ahalf hours a day, 20 days a
month in Las Vegas and it's kindof goose-bumpy for me to
actually see as many kids thatcome through the line as I get.
And I guess that means one thingthat the fathers are talking
(06:33):
positive about me at home and Italk to kids about hitting and
you know I got a good job, man,because it's like playing a
doubleheader every day.
I'm not making any outs, you'regetting any hits Right.
It's a little different whereI'm going to be Saturday,
because here in Vegas you knowwe do it for four and a half
(06:53):
hours.
So because of that you reallydon't have a.
You're not in a hurry.
In Vegas you take your time andmake an experience, as opposed
to up in Sacramento we'llprobably have to rush the people
along because we only got twoand a half hours to do our thing
and then we've got to go in theback room and do the stuff back
(07:13):
there.
I take time with people, I takepictures.
I talk baseball, you know.
I talk sports in general, youknow, because I'm watching the
San Antonio Spurs right now, whoare down almost 30.
They're down by 13 now, sothey're coming back.
But then I'm watching thehockey game.
San Jose's up 3-0.
I'm watching baseball, you know.
(07:36):
The Mets are behind Ford andthen the Dodgers and Kershaw.
I'm about to see what's goingon in sports, so you still love.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
it sounds to me, pete , like you still love sports as
much, maybe more than you everhave.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I have to really follow baseball because I
work for Fox.
I'll be doing the All-Star gamein San know, I'll be doing the
All-Star Game in San Diego andI'll be doing the American
League Championship Series andof course we at Fox have the
World Series this year again andI'll probably do some
whip-arounds in July and Augustand September before the
completion of the season.
(08:10):
But yeah, I enjoy it.
I mean, what else am I going todo?
You know, sports is my life.
It's been my life ever since Ican remember and I enjoy all
sports, not just baseball.
You know I'll watch a couplegames of baseball today.
You know the Red Sox lookedgood today.
David Price struck out over 10,and they won 11-1, and of
(08:32):
course, houston's in a littlebit of a slump right now after
coming off that great year lastyear that they had.
So it's early yet, but a lot ofstrange things can happen in
the world of sports.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You know you were talking about Pete Rose,
baseball's all-time hits leader,which is incredible.
You talk about kids and so I'mtelling this kid, I say you know
, he's 13 years old Pete.
I say we're going to have PeteRose on.
I don't have to explain to a13-year-old who Pete Rose is.
I don't have to explain to a13-year-old who Willie Mays is,
(09:01):
who the greats of the games are.
They know because they knowtheir baseball and they know who
played the game at the toplevels.
So I asked this kid, I said youknow?
When I tell him we're going tohave Pete Rose on, he says can I
ask him a question?
And you know what I thought hisquestion was brilliant, pete.
Here's what he wanted to know,if I may.
He wanted to know because youwere such a hero to so many
young guys, including myself,who are Pete Rose's heroes.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You know, I had one person in my life I've idolized.
You know I respected a lot ofpeople, a lot of guys I played
with and a lot of guys I playedagainst.
But, believe it or not, theonly person I ever idolized was
my father.
And I was very lucky growing upbecause my father was an
athlete.
And you got to remember now, Igrew up in the 50s and the 60s
(09:50):
and all we had to do was to playsports unlike today.
So my father was a footballplayer, a basketball player and
a baseball player and I justcouldn't wait to get in the car
and go watch him do his thing,and he'd take me to watch me do
my thing.
So you know, I met sixpresidents and I respected them
all and I met a lot of importantpeople.
(10:11):
But as far as idolizing, myfavorite player growing up was a
guy that cut the sleeves off ofthe uniforms because his name
was Ted Kozinski.
Big Ted Kozinski had bigforearms and they had to cut the
sleeves off the uniform, youknow, to make them fitting.
So, don't forget, I grew upfour miles from Crosby Field,
(10:33):
which is Cincinnati, so I'veDon't forget, I grew up four
miles from Crosby Field, whichis Cincinnati, so I've always
been a Cincinnati Red fan, and Iwas actually born about three
miles from Crosby Field, where Ibroke in in 1963.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
What a story.
What a story.
You know you're talking aboutyour dad, pete, and my father on
a much lesser, I guess, levelof play.
But you know my dad was apretty doggone good ball player
and in fact I just recently hadthe honor of inducting him into
the Sacramento Baseball Hall ofFame.
So he meant so much to me.
I've got to tell you he meantjust so much to me and really it
(11:07):
really made me a fan ofbaseball.
And just the other day aroundhere we were talking, it was
Willie Mays' birthday.
And so someone says on the show, they says hey, you know, today
is the birthday of the greatestbaseball player, the greatest
living baseball player of alltime.
And I said my comment back tothem was you know what Willie
(11:28):
Mays may be in some minds, thegreatest baseball player, living
baseball player, but that'sarguably because, in my
estimation, pete Rose is stillwith us.
When you look at a switchhitter, all-time major league
hitter in hits at bats, singles,I can go on and on three World
Series rings, batting titles,mvps, gold gloves, rookies of
(11:50):
the year, the argument for me isthat you, could be argued, is
the greatest living baseballplayer, you and maybe Willie
Mays.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I mean that's, I was very fortunate to be Willie's
teammate on many All-Star gamesand I'll never forget my first
one in 65, because the clubhouseguy put my locker between
Willie and Henry and I'm just akid and I'm at this All-Star
game and my locker's betweenWillie Mays and Hank Garrett,
(12:20):
and that's why I love those guys, because they treated me like I
was one of the guys and youknow I was lucky enough to play
17 All-Star games and because ofWillie and because of Hank and
because of Clemente and guyslike that, we won 16 of them.
So you know I was very fortunateto be, in a league that had
such great players and Williewas always one of the greatest
(12:41):
guys to play with in theAll-Star games and to play
against, because you know he wasgood and he was going to give
you an effort.
And what I like about WillieMays is he just had fun playing
the game and I used to love guysthat would show emotion.
And Willie showed a lot ofemotion.
And Willie just was out thereacting like a kid playing a
(13:03):
grown-up's game, and that's theway you're supposed to approach
it.
And I love Willie Mays.
I didn't know it was hisbirthday the other day.
I usually don't miss birthdays,but Willie was certainly one of
the greatest baseball top fivebaseball players in the history
of baseball.
And you know I played with thegreatest catcher ever, the
greatest second baseman ever,joe Morgan.
(13:23):
And I played with the greatestthird baseman ever, mike Schmidt
.
Johnny Betts is the greatestcatcher.
So there's only eight positionson a field and I played with
three of the greatest of theirpositions in the history of the
game of baseball on a field andI played with three of the
greatest of their positions inthe history of baseball.
And then you throw Mays andAaron in there and Clemente and
Musial.
I played against Musial too.
Those are guys that's going tomake the all-century team.
(13:46):
You know you talk about a luckyspot in the batting order.
I was the luckiest guy in theworld.
Man.
I led off with a big redmachine and the next three guys
that batted after me got statuesat the ballpark in Cincinnati,
not plaques, statues.
You've got to be pretty damngood to have statues at the
baseball park.
You're not kidding.
(14:06):
Bench, morgan and Perez havestatues at the Cincinnati
ballpark.
I've been very fortunate to bearound so many great players.
I actually played with 11 Hallof Famers and Barry Larkin's,
the first Hall of Famer that Ihad.
That I managed and I brought up, so you know when you're around
great players for a long periodof time.
(14:27):
first of all, you get stats and,secondly, you have a lot of fun
because you win so many games.
And of all the records I have,my biggest record is the fact
that I played 1,972 winninggames, and I try to tell kids
this all the time.
Why do you play, young man?
Why play to have fun?
Well, is it fun when you lose?
No, then why do you play?
(14:48):
You play to win.
That's the only reason you play.
The game is to win.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What do you think about when you hear kids?
Now Pete, we're talking to PeteRose, you know so many times
you hear, well, we're going togive out awards for
participation.
I think there's a lot of times.
I kind of figured that.
I mean, it's all about you knowlife's lessons that you learn
from the game.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Absolutely.
You know, you teach a kid adifferent.
You talk about a 9, 10, or11-year-old kid.
You teach him the differencebetween winning and losing.
When he's 18, 19, or 20 and hasa decision to make in his life
because of his background, he'sgot a good chance of making the
positive decision.
I really believe that and I'mnot against guys who, you know,
(15:31):
go out there and just play andparticipate, but I think anybody
that plays any sports isobligated to the fans, obligated
to your parents, obligated toyour teammates, the city you
play for if you're playingprofessionally, but your
obligation is to play as hard asyou possibly can and try to win
the game.
Oh man, that's rocket science.
(15:51):
That's rocket science here.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
This is why I love you, pete.
You know what it's, because ofwhat you stand for.
I saw a picture of you one time.
This is perhaps the greatestsports picture, and I mean this,
I'm not just kissing up to you,pete, I mean this.
I'm in Ditka's place in Chicagoone time and I look up on the
(16:22):
wall and I'm sure you've seenthe picture.
It's this huge picture of youand I believe it's in black and
white.
And here you are, all outsuperman dive that you were
known for, and the ball is inmidair.
And I look at that and I said,if there were ever a picture to
describe a player, the way heplayed the game, all you have to
do.
This picture is worth more thana thousand words.
Just look at the way Pete Roseplayed the game and, son, take a
lesson from the way this manplayed.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Well, we're back to that obligation you have to the
fans.
There's one thing you can't doin sports and I hope players
understand this, not onlybaseball, football, basketball,
hockey, any kind of sport youcannot cheat the fans, and if
you don't give your all whenyou're out there on the field
between the lines, you'recheating the fans.
And you cannot do that becauseyour obligation is to play as
(17:03):
hard as you possibly can whileyou're out there on the field
for two and a half three hourswin, lose your draw, come back
the next day and try to do thesame thing over and over and
over again, Because, see, youcan develop a good habit or a
bad habit.
You can be a winner or you canbe a loser.
You can think positive or youcan think negative.
(17:24):
There's no in-between.
You're either a winner or you'rea loser.
You either think positive oryou think negative.
And we didn't have negativepeople on the Big Red Machine.
You know we had players thatall thought we could win.
We had a great leader in sparkyanderson.
You know he's the best managerI ever played for and I played
for 12.
But there again you learn alittle bit of good, bad and
(17:45):
different from every guy youplay for.
And when I managed the reds forfive years I put everybody's uh
different things in them intomy program.
Things that I liked I put inBad, things I didn't like I kept
out of my program.
That's what it's all aboutlearning and experiencing and
writing down what you learn andjust try to go from there.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You know, Pete, when you talk about there's a couple
of teams that come to mind.
You look over the years, allthe great teams that have come
down that have played the game,and talk about a team.
If you look at, let's say, theearly 70s Oakland A's, there's
so many names people canremember, from Vida Blue to
Catfish, Hunter to on and on,Blue Moon, Odom, etc.
Etc.
The other team is the Big RedMachine.
(18:29):
People can name Bench and Roseand Morgan and Perez and Griffey
.
How does it feel to be a partof one of those teams that
people, without even thinkingabout it, boom, they can just
click off that whole roster.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, you had to bring up the damn Oakland A's
and they could beat us in theA's, so we were the first victim
in there, three in a row.
But you know, I'm never goingto get on your show or anybody
else's show and say that youknow, the Big Red Machine was
the greatest team ever in thehistory of baseball.
But I will say one thing that Ireally believe, and the Big Red
(19:05):
Machine was the mostentertaining team in the history
of baseball because we're theonly team to date, okay, that
had a Hall of Fame manager, aWhite Hall of Famer, a black
Hall of Famer and a Latino Hallof Famer.
No other team has had thatingredient.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You're listening to Pat's Peeps 261.
Thank you for that.
I appreciate that as I'mtalking with Pete Rose, who was
reinstated yesterday and is noweligible for the Major League
Baseball Hall of Fame, and Ienjoy the fact that we had an
opportunity to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Someday the Yankees may, with Jeter and Clemens and
Rivera and Torrey, but as ofright now no one has that
ingredient.
And the reason we were so good,it's easy to explain.
Okay, because in baseball youusually get your production from
third base, first base, leftfield, right field.
You usually get your productionfrom third base, first base,
(20:03):
left field, right field.
But we got a lot of ourproduction from catcher and
second baseman Joe Morgan andJohnny Bench, both Hall of
Famers.
So when you have a Hall of Famecatcher that can put stats up
and a Hall of Fame secondbaseman that's an MVP candidate
every year, you're way ahead ofthe game.
That's why the Reds were sogood.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Do you keep in touch with any of your former
teammates?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh yeah, I talked to Jim Morgan today, I talked to
Johnny Bench yesterday, so youknow we're all going to be
together in June.
June 24th, there's a reunion atthe ballpark in Cincinnati.
It's the 40th anniversary of ussweeping the Yankees in the
76th season.
Then the next day, which isJune 25th, I'm going into the
(20:49):
Reds Hall of Fame on the field.
Then the next day after thatthey're retiring my number in
Cincinnati.
So we have a big weekend comingup in June, and next year they
tell me that they're doing mystatue.
So that'd be unusual becausethat'd mean the first four guys
in our lineup have statues atthe ballpark, which is pretty
amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Wow, I can't even imagine you must be so honored
to know that they're going toput that statue up.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And to me.
Let me explain something to you.
You know, born in Cincinnati,played for my hometown, born in
the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Famemeans a lot to me personally
because you know I've been toall the ballparks that are
around today and not all of themhave Hall of Fames at the
ballpark.
But our Cincinnati Reds Hall ofFame is the best of all the
teams out there in the world ofbaseball and they put a lot of
(21:39):
work into that Hall of Fame.
Don't forget, baseball startedin Cincinnati in 1869, and the
first night game was played in1935.
So we have a lot of traditionin Cincinnati and to make their
Hall of Fame was really icing onthe cake for me.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
What was it like?
Pete Hit number 4,256.
What went through your mind?
4,256.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
What went through your mind?
Nothing on that one, becausethat was the last hit I got.
You know the hits that got?
Goosebumpy was 4,192.
Now you know for your listenersout there just put yourself in
this position.
You're playing at home, you'replaying in front of 52,000
people, you get a hit the firsttime, up to surpass Ty Cobb and
become the number one hitter inthe history of baseball as far
(22:26):
as base hits.
Now, listen, I get anine-minute standing ovation Now
for you dads out therelistening to our show right now.
Okay, tomorrow night, when youcome home from work and the
wife's in their kitchen gettingready to prepare dinner, just
stay in there for nine minutesand clap.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I get goosebumps.
Just thinking about that, pete,I tell you.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And you'll know how hard it is for me to be out
there because, to be honest withyou, that was the only time in
my life that I was ever betweenthe lines on a baseball field
and didn't know what the hell todo.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
They come out and they took the base.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I mean all the players came out, my son came
out.
I mean it was see, here's whathappens in that period of time.
I think you'll understand this.
Okay, the first five or sixminutes it's fun.
The players are coming out, myson's coming out, and the fans
are going crazy, and they keepgoing crazy.
Now seven, seven and a halfminutes.
Now what happens?
I'll tell you what happens.
You start thinking abouteverybody responsible for you
(23:29):
being there that are gone, andin my case, it was my dad, it
was my uncle who signed me to acontract, it was my little
league coaches, it was my highschool coaches, it was a couple
of my minor league coaches, myfirst major league manager.
They all left us and those arethe people that are the reason
I'm out there in front of these52,000 people, and that's what
(23:54):
brings tears to your eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Wow, we're talking with Pete Rose, baseball's
all-time hits leader, and justhonored to be talking to him.
You voted to the Major LeagueBaseball All-Century team.
Everyone is so excited yourstruly included because
absolutely without a doubt, youneeded to be there.
I'm going to tell you, peteagain I'm a big baseball guy.
A ton of my friends arebaseball guys.
(24:18):
When we talk baseball and Iknow you're probably so tired of
hearing about it we all,without a doubt, no hesitation
whatsoever.
Pete Rose is not only one ofthe greatest ballplayers of all
time, but this man should be inthe Hall of Fame Now.
We all agree on that.
Many of us agree on that, andthere would be people that would
say, listen, sometimes apunishment doesn't necessarily
(24:39):
fit the sin.
Okay, look what the man did onthe field.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, I appreciate those good words, but let me
tell you something about that.
Okay, I'm not going to get onyour show or anybody else's show
and complain about not being inthe baseball hall of fame
Because I made the mistakes.
I'm the one that messed that up.
I'm the one that's living theconsequences.
It's fine with me.
You know, if I'm ever given asecond chance, I'll be the
(25:08):
happiest guy in the world, butI'm not going to use your show
or anybody else's show tobadmouth this guy or that guy or
this commissioner or thatcommissioner, because I screwed
up.
You know I should be a lessonfor a lot of kids that are
listening to our show right now.
Don't mess up.
And if you do mess up, comeforward as quickly as you
possibly can, because they'regoing to find out about it.
People are going to find outabout something that you did
(25:30):
wasn't right and it happened tome and it happens to a lot of
guys.
But all you can do is just takeresponsibility for it and try
to go on with your life, andthat's what I try to do.
I'm a good citizen.
I work hard and try to go onwith your life.
That's what I try to do.
I'm a good citizen, I work hard.
You may think I'm crazy, butI'm the best ambassador baseball
has.
And I'm not even in the sportBecause all I do on a daily
(25:55):
basis.
I don't badmouth baseball andyou know the last five, six,
seven, eight years baseball hasbeen easy to badmouth with the
PEDs and all the drugsuspensions and things like that
.
But I continuously talkpositive about the game of
baseball because, as Tony Perezwould say, baseball has been
very, very good to me.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I'm going to ask a couple more questions.
One is people have asked meokay, let's look at the era of
Clemens and Bonds and McGuire,etc.
Oh, you know, there was alwaysthe controversy should these
guys be in the Hall of Fame?
The steroid era, etc.
And here for the longest time,pete, my answer was you know
what these other guys?
They did it right, they did itclean.
(26:39):
And I want to know what youthink about this.
They did it clean and I want toknow what you think about this.
They did it right, they did itclean.
And yet, the more I got tothinking about it, you know,
when baseball went on strikeseveral times all you and you
know this as well as I do, petethat people say oh, everyone is
the so-called experts.
Listen, fans aren't going to goback to the game, oh, they're
sick and tired of this.
But then the 1998 season comesaround.
(27:01):
Now everyone wants to know on adaily basis what did Sammy Sosa
, what did Mark McGuire do?
People that aren't even intobaseball, they would ask me hey,
did one of these guys hit ahome run?
So now, at the time, baseball atleast in my estimation sort of
turned a blind eye here to thefact that they're putting butts
in the seats because these guysare hitting home runs.
Oh I'm sorry, what's going on,we don't know anything.
(27:22):
Butts in the seats becausethese guys are hitting home runs
oh I'm sorry, what's going on,we don't know anything.
So, in my estimation, after allthis time shouldn't they take
responsibility and say listen,we allowed it.
They put the butts in the seats.
Listen, they need to go in theHall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Well, first of all, you know, if you ask me about
Bonds and Clemens and Palmaroand Sosa, yes, I'm going to vote
for them for the Hall of Fame.
I'm going to tell you not thatI disagree or agree with what
they did, because I don't knowwhat they did, okay, but I'm
willing to give anybody a secondchance.
And here's exactly what you'retalking about In 1977, george
Foster played for the Big RedMachine and he had 52 home runs.
Okay, no National League playerhit 50 home runs until that
(28:04):
year.
That you're talking about withMcGuire and Sosa, and they both
hit more than Roger Maris.
Sammy Sosa hit over 60 homeruns three times and never
allegedly get home runs Right,amazing.
And Babe Ruth hit 60 for themost and Roger Maris hit 61.
(28:25):
Okay, so there's that lightthat should have went off in the
people who run the game ofbaseball.
But, like you said, they weretrying to get people to come
back to the ballpark and thehome run was a way to get them
back.
And that Sosa-McGuire thingreally, really helped the game
of baseball as far as gettingthe people back.
(28:46):
Okay, now, and I could be wrongabout this, I don't know, but I
think that winner after thathome run derby that year with
those two guys I think.
Bond said well, I'll show youguys.
And I think if he took steroids, that's when he took his
steroids and that's when hestarted producing at the age of
40.
And he hit 73 home runs.
(29:09):
Mcguire hit 70 home runs.
See, I'm not going to vote forMcGuire.
I'll tell you why.
Because Mark McGuire was a Hallof Fame home run hitter.
So was Dave Kingman, true, butMark McGuire couldn't field, he
didn't run, he didn't throw, hedidn't run the bases, he just
was a great home run hitter.
(29:30):
You know there's more toscoring in the Hall of Fame than
just being a home run hitter.
But the other guys I mentionedBonds, he's a great player.
Clemens seven Cy Youngs.
Sammy Sosa over five earnedhome runs.
And a great right fielder.
Palmaro over five earned homeruns, 3,000 hits.
Not too many people have donethat.
(29:51):
Those are the guys that aregoing to get my vote.
It's just like a guy that'sgoing to retire this year, big
Poppy from Boston.
His name was on that list tocome out with 103 names on it.
Let's see, if he's eligible,what the press feels about him,
because someday I think you'llagree with this, someday the
(30:13):
press is going to change andthey're going to start voting
for these guys to get in theHall of Fame that were linked to
these drugs.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Does that make any sense?
Absolutely, it makes sense.
Yes, and you know, when Ilisten to you, pete, you've
given me yet another reason toadmire you.
And the fact is and I use thisphilosophy in my own life, pete,
as I listen to you, you do thesame thing.
You take the high road.
You take any situation.
You've said a couple of timesI'm not going to use your show
to do this, I'm not going to useyour show to do this.
(30:42):
I'm not going to use it to dothis.
Get on the bandwagon.
You take the higher road Goingback to the All-Century team.
You're probably sick of hearingabout this.
I was ashamed and astonishedwhen and let me just ask you
this because you've had time tothink about this when I say the
name Jim Gray your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, I get along with Jim now because you know I
go to a lot of the fights herein Vegas and he's always working
the fights.
He was just a young kid, youknow timing's everything in
sports and you know, when theycame to my people and said Jim
Gray wants to interview youafter the induction on the field
, I'm saying to myself man, yougot Willie Mays there, you got
(31:20):
Hank Aaron, you got Ted Aaron,you got Ted Williams, you got
Stan Musial.
Why does he want me?
Why does he want me?
And well, he's not going totalk about Gatlin.
Well, the first thing he didwas he started talking about
Gatlin and I'll never forgetsomething that happened to me
that night.
Okay, I went down underneaththe ballpark and Craig Sagers
was there.
You know, craig, right.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yep and Craig Sagers was there.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You know Craig, right ?
Yep, yeah, a great guy.
He lives in Atlanta and heworks for TNT Sure and he was
waiting down there and he cameup to me and said Pete, he said
the same thing you just said.
He said I want to apologize formy profession based on what
that guy just did to you.
And I said don't worry about it.
(32:04):
And the only thing that pissedme off about that interview is I
walked by the Yankee dugout andtwo of my good friends, joe
Torre and Don Zimmer, who wentto my high school, grew up in my
neighborhood and I was so mad Ididn't get to acknowledge
either one of those guys in theWorld Series that night.
You know, I was red hot.
I didn't know, it was such abig deal until I got to the
airport and they said that theTV went out because of all the
(32:25):
phone calls.
So you know.
But I think Jim Gray, you knowhe's like that as far as being
an interviewer.
You know, I remember one timewhen Florida Marlins won the
World Series.
In 10 minutes after they won ithe's asking Wayne Heising, are
you going to break up the teamnow?
So you know, you know guys likethat.
I mean.
You know, they don't mean bad,but they just try to.
(32:48):
You remember when Jim Rome saidsomething about Everett?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Jim Everett.
I'm a Rams fan.
Do I ever remember it?
Yeah, I wanted to come to thetelevision, pete.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, some guys do things that everything in sports
, reporting sports and I'm areporter now working for Fox
it's all about timing andthere's a time and place for
every question and you knowyou've got to ask tough
questions sometimes.
But don't attack.
Don't attack people because weathletes and you interview
(33:17):
athletes all the time.
They don't want to be attacked.
They don't mind answering thetough questions.
I don't think they do.
They shouldn't, because there'ssome guys that they don't want
to get booed if they strike outfour times, but they want you to
stand up and clap if they hittwo home runs.
You've got to take the bad withthe good and the good with the
bad.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
The sun's going to shine tomorrow, don't worry
about it pete rose, I admire youand I want to say thanks for
taking your time and joining metonight.
Uh, just a reminder, okay.
So pete's gonna be take yourkids to see this baseball hero,
the great pete rose.
Uh, sacramento sports collectorshow yep, and he showed up in
sacramento and he did his thingand he interacted with fans.
(33:58):
My exclusive interview withpete rose talking about the hall
of Fame and such More to cometoday, but thank you for
listening to Pat's Peeps 261.
We'll see you on the radio.
Welcome to the Pats Peeps podcast, number 261.
261, yeah, hey, now goodmorning.
It's May 14th, the morning ofMay 14th.
I'm looking out my studiowindows into the beautiful
foothills of Northern California.
It is a pleasant spring day.
(00:30):
Sun is back out, although it isa little cold this morning.
Thank you, thank you forlistening.
My name is Pat Pat Walsh.
I am the host of the Pat WalshShow as heard on KFBK Radio in
Sacramento, 93.1 FM, 1530 AM,and, of course, streaming on all
(00:51):
of your streaming platforms.
You know what made my night?
One of the things that made mynight on last night's show is
when a caller called up and Iapologize that I can't remember
the name of the caller thatcalled up.
It was a gentleman called up,said you know, pat, and I'm
getting this more and more on myradio show.
He says I travel a lot and nowI'm listening to your Pat's
(01:13):
Peeps podcast.
I was so excited about that.
So he says I'm driving and Ilistened to the Pat's Peeps
podcast and I really like it.
And I listen to the Pat's Peepspodcast and I really like it,
it's fun to listen to, and soyou know what it's, thank you.
(01:34):
So it's people like that.
And then they call my radioshow and say that, which really
helps to grow the audience.
Yesterday I had a birthday lunch.
Now I could have done a podcastfrom there, but some friends
threw a little birthday lunchfor me and there was three of us
celebrating a birthday thisweek Tony and Darcy and my
friend Dan Knapp, who we're allon tomorrow.
Their birthdays are tomorrow,mine is Friday, so I didn't, you
(01:56):
know, I could have done apodcast, but I just wanted to
let it be what it was and notalways be on.
So, with that in mind, what itwas and not always be on.
So with that in mind, I'm goingto do my best to make that up
to you today.
It's a double bonus Wednesday.
I want to do two of them todayNow.
(02:18):
One I will be doing because Iwant to pay respect to this
gentleman.
The other I'll do after mydreaded dental appointment today
.
Yes, and more dental hell,anyhow.
But on Pat's Peeps 261,.
You know, in case you missedthe news yesterday I'm sure many
(02:39):
of you did not, but I'm sureyou heard about it I talked
about this on my show last night.
Pete Rose and Shoeless JoeJackson are among the players
reinstated by Major LeagueBaseball.
In an historic decisionYesterday, mlb removed Pete Rose
(02:59):
and Shoeless Joe Jackson, twoof the sport's most famous
players, who were previouslykicked out of baseball for
gambling on the game.
But they have reinstated themfrom the league's permanently
eligible list.
Why?
Because they're dead.
Well, that's what they said.
That's what Rob Manfred said inregards to Rule 21.
(03:21):
He says in my view, once anindividual has passed away, the
purposes of rule 21 have beenserved.
He went on to say obviously, aperson along with us cannot
represent a threat to theintegrity of the game, although
I don't think that either.
And if, moreover, he said it's,it's hard to conceive of a
penalty that is more of adeterrent effect than the one
that lasts a lifetime with noreprieve.
(03:42):
Okay, he makes a point there.
But again, if that, if that'sthe case, when you say, well,
they can't represent the threatto the integrity of the game, I
don't want to go through mywhole show again last night.
But you know, I don't know ifhe knows this, but Shoeless
Joe's been dead since 1951.
So why lump him in and do atwofer with Pete Rose?
Why attach Pete Rose to that?
(04:10):
Or why attach Shoeless Joe toPete Rose?
I don't want to repeat my show.
Like I said, I did that lastnight.
Hopefully you had anopportunity to hear it.
If not, that is on the freeiHeart app and you can hear the
podcast on my radio show, thePat Wall Show.
But I bring it up because in2017, I had done an interview
(04:30):
with Pete Rose and at the timehe was going to come to
Sacramento.
He was going to be doing a cardshow.
Pete always loved doing thecard shows and we had an
opportunity to talk to Pete andwe talked about a variety of
things, everything from theupcoming card show to the fact
(04:53):
that they were going to put up astatue to him in Cincinnati,
outside the ballpark to theMajor League Baseball Hall of
Fame.
So, if you don't mind, withoutfurther ado, I would like to
play my interview with Pete Rose.
All right?
Yeah, we are joined and I'mhonored to be joined by
(05:15):
Baseball's Hits King.
We're talking to Pete Rose andI'm very excited, very honored,
to have you with us, pete.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, it's my pleasure and I'm looking forward
to Saturday, to come into yourtown.
I've been to Sacramento a longtime and hopefully we'll have a
lot of people come out to theshow and talk some baseball and
you know, just have a good day.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You know.
So, pete's coming here.
You're coming here for thefirst Sacramento Sports
Collector's Show.
This is going to be out atMcClellan Air Force Base and
it's this Saturday, and this is10 am to 5 pm.
And I tell you what, if I werea kid, I would be so excited,
pete, to know if my parents saidSon, you know where we're going
today.
Where are we going today?
Pops, we're going to go meetPete Rose, baseball's all-time
(06:01):
hits leader.
So I can only imagine you mustreally get a kick out of the
kids that come out there to meetyou.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You know, maybe kids that never saw you play the game
, but they know your reputationWell to be honest with you, I
sign autographs about four and ahalf hours a day, 20 days a
month in Las Vegas and it's kindof goose-bumpy for me to
actually see as many kids thatcome through the line as I get.
And I guess that means one thingthat the fathers are talking
(06:33):
positive about me at home and Italk to kids about hitting and
you know I got a good job, man,because it's like playing a
doubleheader every day.
I'm not making any outs, you'regetting any hits Right.
It's a little different whereI'm going to be Saturday,
because here in Vegas you knowwe do it for four and a half
(06:53):
hours.
So because of that you reallydon't have a.
You're not in a hurry.
In Vegas you take your time andmake an experience, as opposed
to up in Sacramento we'llprobably have to rush the people
along because we only got twoand a half hours to do our thing
and then we've got to go in theback room and do the stuff back
(07:13):
there.
I take time with people, I takepictures.
I talk baseball, you know.
I talk sports in general, youknow, because I'm watching the
San Antonio Spurs right now, whoare down almost 30.
They're down by 13 now, sothey're coming back.
But then I'm watching thehockey game.
San Jose's up 3-0.
I'm watching baseball, you know.
(07:36):
The Mets are behind Ford andthen the Dodgers and Kershaw.
I'm about to see what's goingon in sports, so you still love.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
it sounds to me, pete , like you still love sports as
much, maybe more than you everhave.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I have to really follow baseball because I
work for Fox.
I'll be doing the All-Star gamein San know, I'll be doing the
All-Star Game in San Diego andI'll be doing the American
League Championship Series andof course we at Fox have the
World Series this year again andI'll probably do some
whip-arounds in July and Augustand September before the
completion of the season.
(08:10):
But yeah, I enjoy it.
I mean, what else am I going todo?
You know, sports is my life.
It's been my life ever since Ican remember and I enjoy all
sports, not just baseball.
You know I'll watch a couplegames of baseball today.
You know the Red Sox lookedgood today.
David Price struck out over 10,and they won 11-1, and of
(08:32):
course, houston's in a littlebit of a slump right now after
coming off that great year lastyear that they had.
So it's early yet, but a lot ofstrange things can happen in
the world of sports.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You know you were talking about Pete Rose,
baseball's all-time hits leader,which is incredible.
You talk about kids and so I'mtelling this kid, I say you know
, he's 13 years old Pete.
I say we're going to have PeteRose on.
I don't have to explain to a13-year-old who Pete Rose is.
I don't have to explain to a13-year-old who Willie Mays is,
(09:01):
who the greats of the games are.
They know because they knowtheir baseball and they know who
played the game at the toplevels.
So I asked this kid, I said youknow?
When I tell him we're going tohave Pete Rose on, he says can I
ask him a question?
And you know what I thought hisquestion was brilliant, pete.
Here's what he wanted to know,if I may.
He wanted to know because youwere such a hero to so many
young guys, including myself,who are Pete Rose's heroes.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You know, I had one person in my life I've idolized.
You know I respected a lot ofpeople, a lot of guys I played
with and a lot of guys I playedagainst.
But, believe it or not, theonly person I ever idolized was
my father.
And I was very lucky growing upbecause my father was an
athlete.
And you got to remember now, Igrew up in the 50s and the 60s
(09:50):
and all we had to do was to playsports unlike today.
So my father was a footballplayer, a basketball player and
a baseball player and I justcouldn't wait to get in the car
and go watch him do his thing,and he'd take me to watch me do
my thing.
So you know, I met sixpresidents and I respected them
all and I met a lot of importantpeople.
(10:11):
But as far as idolizing, myfavorite player growing up was a
guy that cut the sleeves off ofthe uniforms because his name
was Ted Kozinski.
Big Ted Kozinski had bigforearms and they had to cut the
sleeves off the uniform, youknow, to make them fitting.
So, don't forget, I grew upfour miles from Crosby Field,
(10:33):
which is Cincinnati, so I'veDon't forget, I grew up four
miles from Crosby Field, whichis Cincinnati, so I've always
been a Cincinnati Red fan, and Iwas actually born about three
miles from Crosby Field, where Ibroke in in 1963.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
What a story.
What a story.
You know you're talking aboutyour dad, pete, and my father on
a much lesser, I guess, levelof play.
But you know my dad was apretty doggone good ball player
and in fact I just recently hadthe honor of inducting him into
the Sacramento Baseball Hall ofFame.
So he meant so much to me.
I've got to tell you he meantjust so much to me and really it
(11:07):
really made me a fan ofbaseball.
And just the other day aroundhere we were talking, it was
Willie Mays' birthday.
And so someone says on the show, they says hey, you know, today
is the birthday of the greatestbaseball player, the greatest
living baseball player of alltime.
And I said my comment back tothem was you know what Willie
(11:28):
Mays may be in some minds, thegreatest baseball player, living
baseball player, but that'sarguably because, in my
estimation, pete Rose is stillwith us.
When you look at a switchhitter, all-time major league
hitter in hits at bats, singles,I can go on and on three World
Series rings, batting titles,mvps, gold gloves, rookies of
(11:50):
the year, the argument for me isthat you, could be argued, is
the greatest living baseballplayer, you and maybe Willie
Mays.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I mean that's, I was very fortunate to be Willie's
teammate on many All-Star gamesand I'll never forget my first
one in 65, because the clubhouseguy put my locker between
Willie and Henry and I'm just akid and I'm at this All-Star
game and my locker's betweenWillie Mays and Hank Garrett,
(12:20):
and that's why I love those guys, because they treated me like I
was one of the guys and youknow I was lucky enough to play
17 All-Star games and because ofWillie and because of Hank and
because of Clemente and guyslike that, we won 16 of them.
So you know I was very fortunateto be, in a league that had
such great players and Williewas always one of the greatest
(12:41):
guys to play with in theAll-Star games and to play
against, because you know he wasgood and he was going to give
you an effort.
And what I like about WillieMays is he just had fun playing
the game and I used to love guysthat would show emotion.
And Willie showed a lot ofemotion.
And Willie just was out thereacting like a kid playing a
(13:03):
grown-up's game, and that's theway you're supposed to approach
it.
And I love Willie Mays.
I didn't know it was hisbirthday the other day.
I usually don't miss birthdays,but Willie was certainly one of
the greatest baseball top fivebaseball players in the history
of baseball.
And you know I played with thegreatest catcher ever, the
greatest second baseman ever,joe Morgan.
(13:23):
And I played with the greatestthird baseman ever, mike Schmidt
.
Johnny Betts is the greatestcatcher.
So there's only eight positionson a field and I played with
three of the greatest of theirpositions in the history of the
game of baseball on a field andI played with three of the
greatest of their positions inthe history of baseball.
And then you throw Mays andAaron in there and Clemente and
Musial.
I played against Musial too.
Those are guys that's going tomake the all-century team.
(13:46):
You know you talk about a luckyspot in the batting order.
I was the luckiest guy in theworld.
Man.
I led off with a big redmachine and the next three guys
that batted after me got statuesat the ballpark in Cincinnati,
not plaques, statues.
You've got to be pretty damngood to have statues at the
baseball park.
You're not kidding.
(14:06):
Bench, morgan and Perez havestatues at the Cincinnati
ballpark.
I've been very fortunate to bearound so many great players.
I actually played with 11 Hallof Famers and Barry Larkin's,
the first Hall of Famer that Ihad.
That I managed and I brought up, so you know when you're around
great players for a long periodof time.
(14:27):
first of all, you get stats and,secondly, you have a lot of fun
because you win so many games.
And of all the records I have,my biggest record is the fact
that I played 1,972 winninggames, and I try to tell kids
this all the time.
Why do you play, young man?
Why play to have fun?
Well, is it fun when you lose?
No, then why do you play?
(14:48):
You play to win.
That's the only reason you play.
The game is to win.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What do you think about when you hear kids?
Now Pete, we're talking to PeteRose, you know so many times
you hear, well, we're going togive out awards for
participation.
I think there's a lot of times.
I kind of figured that.
I mean, it's all about you knowlife's lessons that you learn
from the game.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Absolutely.
You know, you teach a kid adifferent.
You talk about a 9, 10, or11-year-old kid.
You teach him the differencebetween winning and losing.
When he's 18, 19, or 20 and hasa decision to make in his life
because of his background, he'sgot a good chance of making the
positive decision.
I really believe that and I'mnot against guys who, you know,
(15:31):
go out there and just play andparticipate, but I think anybody
that plays any sports isobligated to the fans, obligated
to your parents, obligated toyour teammates, the city you
play for if you're playingprofessionally, but your
obligation is to play as hard asyou possibly can and try to win
the game.
Oh man, that's rocket science.
(15:51):
That's rocket science here.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
This is why I love you, pete.
You know what it's, because ofwhat you stand for.
I saw a picture of you one time.
This is perhaps the greatestsports picture, and I mean this,
I'm not just kissing up to you,pete, I mean this.
I'm in Ditka's place in Chicagoone time and I look up on the
(16:22):
wall and I'm sure you've seenthe picture.
It's this huge picture of youand I believe it's in black and
white.
And here you are, all outsuperman dive that you were
known for, and the ball is inmidair.
And I look at that and I said,if there were ever a picture to
describe a player, the way heplayed the game, all you have to
do.
This picture is worth more thana thousand words.
Just look at the way Pete Roseplayed the game and, son, take a
lesson from the way this manplayed.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Well, we're back to that obligation you have to the
fans.
There's one thing you can't doin sports and I hope players
understand this, not onlybaseball, football, basketball,
hockey, any kind of sport youcannot cheat the fans, and if
you don't give your all whenyou're out there on the field
between the lines, you'recheating the fans.
And you cannot do that becauseyour obligation is to play as
(17:03):
hard as you possibly can whileyou're out there on the field
for two and a half three hourswin, lose your draw, come back
the next day and try to do thesame thing over and over and
over again, Because, see, youcan develop a good habit or a
bad habit.
You can be a winner or you canbe a loser.
You can think positive or youcan think negative.
(17:24):
There's no in-between.
You're either a winner or you'rea loser.
You either think positive oryou think negative.
And we didn't have negativepeople on the Big Red Machine.
You know we had players thatall thought we could win.
We had a great leader in sparkyanderson.
You know he's the best managerI ever played for and I played
for 12.
But there again you learn alittle bit of good, bad and
(17:45):
different from every guy youplay for.
And when I managed the reds forfive years I put everybody's uh
different things in them intomy program.
Things that I liked I put inBad, things I didn't like I kept
out of my program.
That's what it's all aboutlearning and experiencing and
writing down what you learn andjust try to go from there.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You know, Pete, when you talk about there's a couple
of teams that come to mind.
You look over the years, allthe great teams that have come
down that have played the game,and talk about a team.
If you look at, let's say, theearly 70s Oakland A's, there's
so many names people canremember, from Vida Blue to
Catfish, Hunter to on and on,Blue Moon, Odom, etc.
Etc.
The other team is the Big RedMachine.
(18:29):
People can name Bench and Roseand Morgan and Perez and Griffey
.
How does it feel to be a partof one of those teams that
people, without even thinkingabout it, boom, they can just
click off that whole roster.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, you had to bring up the damn Oakland A's
and they could beat us in theA's, so we were the first victim
in there, three in a row.
But you know, I'm never goingto get on your show or anybody
else's show and say that youknow, the Big Red Machine was
the greatest team ever in thehistory of baseball.
But I will say one thing that Ireally believe, and the Big Red
(19:05):
Machine was the mostentertaining team in the history
of baseball because we're theonly team to date, okay, that
had a Hall of Fame manager, aWhite Hall of Famer, a black
Hall of Famer and a Latino Hallof Famer.
No other team has had thatingredient.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You're listening to Pat's Peeps 261.
Thank you for that.
I appreciate that as I'mtalking with Pete Rose, who was
reinstated yesterday and is noweligible for the Major League
Baseball Hall of Fame, and Ienjoy the fact that we had an
opportunity to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Someday the Yankees may, with Jeter and Clemens and
Rivera and Torrey, but as ofright now no one has that
ingredient.
And the reason we were so good,it's easy to explain.
Okay, because in baseball youusually get your production from
third base, first base, leftfield, right field.
You usually get your productionfrom third base, first base,
(20:03):
left field, right field.
But we got a lot of ourproduction from catcher and
second baseman Joe Morgan andJohnny Bench, both Hall of
Famers.
So when you have a Hall of Famecatcher that can put stats up
and a Hall of Fame secondbaseman that's an MVP candidate
every year, you're way ahead ofthe game.
That's why the Reds were sogood.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Do you keep in touch with any of your former
teammates?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh yeah, I talked to Jim Morgan today, I talked to
Johnny Bench yesterday, so youknow we're all going to be
together in June.
June 24th, there's a reunion atthe ballpark in Cincinnati.
It's the 40th anniversary of ussweeping the Yankees in the
76th season.
Then the next day, which isJune 25th, I'm going into the
(20:49):
Reds Hall of Fame on the field.
Then the next day after thatthey're retiring my number in
Cincinnati.
So we have a big weekend comingup in June, and next year they
tell me that they're doing mystatue.
So that'd be unusual becausethat'd mean the first four guys
in our lineup have statues atthe ballpark, which is pretty
amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Wow, I can't even imagine you must be so honored
to know that they're going toput that statue up.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And to me.
Let me explain something to you.
You know, born in Cincinnati,played for my hometown, born in
the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Famemeans a lot to me personally
because you know I've been toall the ballparks that are
around today and not all of themhave Hall of Fames at the
ballpark.
But our Cincinnati Reds Hall ofFame is the best of all the
teams out there in the world ofbaseball and they put a lot of
(21:39):
work into that Hall of Fame.
Don't forget, baseball startedin Cincinnati in 1869, and the
first night game was played in1935.
So we have a lot of traditionin Cincinnati and to make their
Hall of Fame was really icing onthe cake for me.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
What was it like?
Pete Hit number 4,256.
What went through your mind?
4,256.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
What went through your mind?
Nothing on that one, becausethat was the last hit I got.
You know the hits that got?
Goosebumpy was 4,192.
Now you know for your listenersout there just put yourself in
this position.
You're playing at home, you'replaying in front of 52,000
people, you get a hit the firsttime, up to surpass Ty Cobb and
become the number one hitter inthe history of baseball as far
(22:26):
as base hits.
Now, listen, I get anine-minute standing ovation Now
for you dads out therelistening to our show right now.
Okay, tomorrow night, when youcome home from work and the
wife's in their kitchen gettingready to prepare dinner, just
stay in there for nine minutesand clap.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I get goosebumps.
Just thinking about that, pete,I tell you.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And you'll know how hard it is for me to be out
there because, to be honest withyou, that was the only time in
my life that I was ever betweenthe lines on a baseball field
and didn't know what the hell todo.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
They come out and they took the base.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I mean all the players came out, my son came
out.
I mean it was see, here's whathappens in that period of time.
I think you'll understand this.
Okay, the first five or sixminutes it's fun.
The players are coming out, myson's coming out, and the fans
are going crazy, and they keepgoing crazy.
Now seven, seven and a halfminutes.
Now what happens?
I'll tell you what happens.
You start thinking abouteverybody responsible for you
(23:29):
being there that are gone, andin my case, it was my dad, it
was my uncle who signed me to acontract, it was my little
league coaches, it was my highschool coaches, it was a couple
of my minor league coaches, myfirst major league manager.
They all left us and those arethe people that are the reason
I'm out there in front of these52,000 people, and that's what
(23:54):
brings tears to your eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Wow, we're talking with Pete Rose, baseball's
all-time hits leader, and justhonored to be talking to him.
You voted to the Major LeagueBaseball All-Century team.
Everyone is so excited yourstruly included because
absolutely without a doubt, youneeded to be there.
I'm going to tell you, peteagain I'm a big baseball guy.
A ton of my friends arebaseball guys.
(24:18):
When we talk baseball and Iknow you're probably so tired of
hearing about it we all,without a doubt, no hesitation
whatsoever.
Pete Rose is not only one ofthe greatest ballplayers of all
time, but this man should be inthe Hall of Fame Now.
We all agree on that.
Many of us agree on that, andthere would be people that would
say, listen, sometimes apunishment doesn't necessarily
(24:39):
fit the sin.
Okay, look what the man did onthe field.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, I appreciate those good words, but let me
tell you something about that.
Okay, I'm not going to get onyour show or anybody else's show
and complain about not being inthe baseball hall of fame
Because I made the mistakes.
I'm the one that messed that up.
I'm the one that's living theconsequences.
It's fine with me.
You know, if I'm ever given asecond chance, I'll be the
(25:08):
happiest guy in the world, butI'm not going to use your show
or anybody else's show tobadmouth this guy or that guy or
this commissioner or thatcommissioner, because I screwed
up.
You know I should be a lessonfor a lot of kids that are
listening to our show right now.
Don't mess up.
And if you do mess up, comeforward as quickly as you
possibly can, because they'regoing to find out about it.
People are going to find outabout something that you did
(25:30):
wasn't right and it happened tome and it happens to a lot of
guys.
But all you can do is just takeresponsibility for it and try
to go on with your life, andthat's what I try to do.
I'm a good citizen.
I work hard and try to go onwith your life.
That's what I try to do.
I'm a good citizen, I work hard.
You may think I'm crazy, butI'm the best ambassador baseball
has.
And I'm not even in the sportBecause all I do on a daily
(25:55):
basis.
I don't badmouth baseball andyou know the last five, six,
seven, eight years baseball hasbeen easy to badmouth with the
PEDs and all the drugsuspensions and things like that
.
But I continuously talkpositive about the game of
baseball because, as Tony Perezwould say, baseball has been
very, very good to me.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I'm going to ask a couple more questions.
One is people have asked meokay, let's look at the era of
Clemens and Bonds and McGuire,etc.
Oh, you know, there was alwaysthe controversy should these
guys be in the Hall of Fame?
The steroid era, etc.
And here for the longest time,pete, my answer was you know
what these other guys?
They did it right, they did itclean.
(26:39):
And I want to know what youthink about this.
They did it clean and I want toknow what you think about this.
They did it right, they did itclean.
And yet, the more I got tothinking about it, you know,
when baseball went on strikeseveral times all you and you
know this as well as I do, petethat people say oh, everyone is
the so-called experts.
Listen, fans aren't going to goback to the game, oh, they're
sick and tired of this.
But then the 1998 season comesaround.
(27:01):
Now everyone wants to know on adaily basis what did Sammy Sosa
, what did Mark McGuire do?
People that aren't even intobaseball, they would ask me hey,
did one of these guys hit ahome run?
So now, at the time, baseball atleast in my estimation sort of
turned a blind eye here to thefact that they're putting butts
in the seats because these guysare hitting home runs.
Oh I'm sorry, what's going on,we don't know anything.
(27:22):
Butts in the seats becausethese guys are hitting home runs
oh I'm sorry, what's going on,we don't know anything.
So, in my estimation, after allthis time shouldn't they take
responsibility and say listen,we allowed it.
They put the butts in the seats.
Listen, they need to go in theHall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Well, first of all, you know, if you ask me about
Bonds and Clemens and Palmaroand Sosa, yes, I'm going to vote
for them for the Hall of Fame.
I'm going to tell you not thatI disagree or agree with what
they did, because I don't knowwhat they did, okay, but I'm
willing to give anybody a secondchance.
And here's exactly what you'retalking about In 1977, george
Foster played for the Big RedMachine and he had 52 home runs.
Okay, no National League playerhit 50 home runs until that
(28:04):
year.
That you're talking about withMcGuire and Sosa, and they both
hit more than Roger Maris.
Sammy Sosa hit over 60 homeruns three times and never
allegedly get home runs Right,amazing.
And Babe Ruth hit 60 for themost and Roger Maris hit 61.
(28:25):
Okay, so there's that lightthat should have went off in the
people who run the game ofbaseball.
But, like you said, they weretrying to get people to come
back to the ballpark and thehome run was a way to get them
back.
And that Sosa-McGuire thingreally, really helped the game
of baseball as far as gettingthe people back.
(28:46):
Okay, now, and I could be wrongabout this, I don't know, but I
think that winner after thathome run derby that year with
those two guys I think.
Bond said well, I'll show youguys.
And I think if he took steroids, that's when he took his
steroids and that's when hestarted producing at the age of
40.
And he hit 73 home runs.
(29:09):
Mcguire hit 70 home runs.
See, I'm not going to vote forMcGuire.
I'll tell you why.
Because Mark McGuire was a Hallof Fame home run hitter.
So was Dave Kingman, true, butMark McGuire couldn't field, he
didn't run, he didn't throw, hedidn't run the bases, he just
was a great home run hitter.
(29:30):
You know there's more toscoring in the Hall of Fame than
just being a home run hitter.
But the other guys I mentionedBonds, he's a great player.
Clemens seven Cy Youngs.
Sammy Sosa over five earnedhome runs.
And a great right fielder.
Palmaro over five earned homeruns, 3,000 hits.
Not too many people have donethat.
(29:51):
Those are the guys that aregoing to get my vote.
It's just like a guy that'sgoing to retire this year, big
Poppy from Boston.
His name was on that list tocome out with 103 names on it.
Let's see, if he's eligible,what the press feels about him,
because someday I think you'llagree with this, someday the
(30:13):
press is going to change andthey're going to start voting
for these guys to get in theHall of Fame that were linked to
these drugs.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Does that make any sense?
Absolutely, it makes sense.
Yes, and you know, when Ilisten to you, pete, you've
given me yet another reason toadmire you.
And the fact is and I use thisphilosophy in my own life, pete,
as I listen to you, you do thesame thing.
You take the high road.
You take any situation.
You've said a couple of timesI'm not going to use your show
to do this, I'm not going to useyour show to do this.
(30:42):
I'm not going to use it to dothis.
Get on the bandwagon.
You take the higher road Goingback to the All-Century team.
You're probably sick of hearingabout this.
I was ashamed and astonishedwhen and let me just ask you
this because you've had time tothink about this when I say the
name Jim Gray your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, I get along with Jim now because you know I
go to a lot of the fights herein Vegas and he's always working
the fights.
He was just a young kid, youknow timing's everything in
sports and you know, when theycame to my people and said Jim
Gray wants to interview youafter the induction on the field
, I'm saying to myself man, yougot Willie Mays there, you got
(31:20):
Hank Aaron, you got Ted Aaron,you got Ted Williams, you got
Stan Musial.
Why does he want me?
Why does he want me?
And well, he's not going totalk about Gatlin.
Well, the first thing he didwas he started talking about
Gatlin and I'll never forgetsomething that happened to me
that night.
Okay, I went down underneaththe ballpark and Craig Sagers
was there.
You know, craig, right.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yep and Craig Sagers was there.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You know Craig, right ?
Yep, yeah, a great guy.
He lives in Atlanta and heworks for TNT Sure and he was
waiting down there and he cameup to me and said Pete, he said
the same thing you just said.
He said I want to apologize formy profession based on what
that guy just did to you.
And I said don't worry about it.
(32:04):
And the only thing that pissedme off about that interview is I
walked by the Yankee dugout andtwo of my good friends, joe
Torre and Don Zimmer, who wentto my high school, grew up in my
neighborhood and I was so mad Ididn't get to acknowledge
either one of those guys in theWorld Series that night.
You know, I was red hot.
I didn't know, it was such abig deal until I got to the
airport and they said that theTV went out because of all the
(32:25):
phone calls.
So you know.
But I think Jim Gray, you knowhe's like that as far as being
an interviewer.
You know, I remember one timewhen Florida Marlins won the
World Series.
In 10 minutes after they won ithe's asking Wayne Heising, are
you going to break up the teamnow?
So you know, you know guys likethat.
I mean.
You know, they don't mean bad,but they just try to.
(32:48):
You remember when Jim Rome saidsomething about Everett?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Jim Everett.
I'm a Rams fan.
Do I ever remember it?
Yeah, I wanted to come to thetelevision, pete.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, some guys do things that everything in sports
, reporting sports and I'm areporter now working for Fox
it's all about timing andthere's a time and place for
every question and you knowyou've got to ask tough
questions sometimes.
But don't attack.
Don't attack people because weathletes and you interview
(33:17):
athletes all the time.
They don't want to be attacked.
They don't mind answering thetough questions.
I don't think they do.
They shouldn't, because there'ssome guys that they don't want
to get booed if they strike outfour times, but they want you to
stand up and clap if they hittwo home runs.
You've got to take the bad withthe good and the good with the
bad.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
The sun's going to shine tomorrow, don't worry
about it pete rose, I admire youand I want to say thanks for
taking your time and joining metonight.
Uh, just a reminder, okay.
So pete's gonna be take yourkids to see this baseball hero,
the great pete rose.
Uh, sacramento sports collectorshow yep, and he showed up in
sacramento and he did his thingand he interacted with fans.
(33:58):
My exclusive interview withpete rose talking about the hall
of Fame and such More to cometoday, but thank you for
listening to Pat's Peeps 261.
We'll see you on the radio.
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