Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
There are places I remember for my life Those are
magic, some forever not betterSome are gone and some remain
all these places at bettermoments with lovers and friends
(00:32):
I still can recall Some are deadand some are living my life I've
loved them all But of all thesefriends and lovers There is no
(00:54):
one compares with you And thesememories lose their meaning When
I think of love as something youknow I'll never lose affection
For people and things that wentbefore I know I've something
(01:19):
about them my life I love youmore I'm gonna step off the
vehicle and we're walkingstraight ahead for the flash of
my gates so the home of JohnLennon now Mendips is the name
(02:05):
of the home Aunt Mimi's homeAunt Mimi is the lady that would
look after John.
Aunt Mimi was the eldestdaughter of five girls.
The eldest daughter wasdisciplined, educated, and
became a nurse in the localhospital down the road from
here.
When she walked in the hospital,she met a wonderful man, George
Smith.
George and Mimi began arelationship, he proposed
(02:27):
marriage and they were marriedon the 50th of September 1939
and moved to this wonderfullooking house here.
But Mimi made it quite clearthat if we get married, George,
you're a businessman, I'm acareer lady, we don't need
children.
So they were married and theymoved to the house.
Lovely and calm.
The house she left behind hadfour younger sisters, and Julia
(02:49):
was sister number four out ofthe five girls.
She's the one whose father knewshe was going to cause the
upset.
This is Julia in 1948.
Freddie Lennon in 1964.
They gave us John Lennon, butthey were never photographed
together.
That's the closest I could showyou, John's heardance.
So they gave us John Lennon,they were married on the on the
(03:11):
um the 3rd of December 1938.
John Lennon was born on the 9thof October 1940, and they, as I
say, were separated by war.
War came along, Freddie was awayat war as a sailor, and he was
sending letters back toLiverpool.
Julia would be encouraged byFreddie to go dancing.
She went dancing.
Unfortunately for him, she metsoldiers and sailors.
(03:33):
She had a little fling with asoldier, and that soldier
resulted in a pregnancy.
She's pregnant.
Now she can't let him knowbecause it's not his baby, she
can't let her father know.
Shame on the family.
The only person she can talk tofor any advice is Mimi.
And Mimi was a nurse, and Mimilistened and said to Julia, you
are not gonna have another man'sbaby.
(03:54):
It's as simple as that.
Julia let Mimi take control.
Mimi made a phone call to theCatholic Hospital of Liverpool,
and Julia was taken away whenshe was five months pregnant.
Now she stayed full term.
On the 19th of June 1945, shegave birth to a little baby
girl.
The little girl was given theEnglish name Victoria Elizabeth
(04:17):
Lennon, but the little girl wastaken off Julia forcibly and put
up for adoption on a Norwegianfamily taker and gave her a new
name, Ingrid Maria Peterson.
John Lennon growing up, he nevermet Ingrid Peterson.
Rumour has it, he found outabout her and tried to get a
private detective, but in M daysthere was no internet.
In M days there was no DNA.
(04:38):
The private detective drew ablank of Victoria Elizabeth
Lennon.
Yoko Hono found out about thelady in 1992.
That picture was taken when theymet each other in New York.
Now she came back to London andgave the interview, telling
everyone that my name is IngridPeterson and not Victoria
Lennon.
I have nothing to do with theLennon estate today.
If she's alive and well today,she's 80 now, fair play to her.
(05:00):
Fair play.
So if she's alive and well, Ihope she's healthy.
Keep an eye on the dates here.
19th of June 1945.
1945-46.
Julia is now living with aLiverpool man and his name is
Bobby.
She's still married to Freddie,but that poor man has not come
home from war yet.
Julia is with Bobby and Julia'spregnant.
That's three differentpregnancies with three different
(05:23):
men in just over six years.
Not good.
Julia tells Bobby, and Bobbysays it's the test of her and
made it quite clear, I'm gonnalive with you and my baby, and
John is not my problem.
John is not my son.
So John was brought here.
He's five and a half years ofage.
John would be here, he'd bewaiting at the gates, and John
would watch his mum come off thebus.
(05:44):
And when John sees his mum, heopens the gate, he races down to
greet her and he's taken intoLiverpool.
As he got used to his mum'svisits, school holidays, John's
gonna get that little bit olderand he's gonna ask the awkward
question.
He's asking his mum, where doyou go, mum?
When you go home, I can't comewith you.
Where do you go on the bus?
How long's the journey?
(06:04):
And Julie would say, John, I amyour mum, but I live far away
from a distance.
Mimi is your Liverpool mum.
But when John was headingtowards 13, he's got a relative
from Scotland.
John's cousin was nearly 21years of age, and he said to
John, Tomorrow I'm going to showyou your mum's home.
John said, What bus do we get?
We don't get the bus, John.
(06:25):
We walk.
She's over there.
She's literally 10 minutes overthere behind the golf course.
And when John knocked on thedoor, he was absolutely
heartbroken to realise he's beenlied to.
Because Julia has got twodaughters.
Julia five, Jacqueline, three.
Half sisters that he gets toknow about now.
All the time he didn't know.
(06:46):
And this here is where John wasgiven the home truth by Mimi
that your father hasdisappeared, and your mum Julia
is now living with another man.
She doesn't want to look afteryou, John.
I'm the one who looks after youhere.
Everything's settling down.
John can stay here, he can go tohis mum's, he can stay here and
go to his mum's.
Everything's settling, John'sgoing to school.
(07:06):
Sadly for John, his wonderfuluncle.
He didn't tell his wife theextent of his illness.
Uncle George was not very well.
He passed away of cirrhosis ofthe liver.
The 5th of June 1955, aged only52.
Mimi was all alone with Johncome 1955.
In 1955, 56, sorry, John Lennonwas in that bedroom and he's
(07:27):
listening to the radio.
And who came on the radiosinging Heartbreak Hotel?
Elvis.
Elvis.
The King, the Messiah.
John goes to school, everyone'sgoing crazy for Elvis.
He's brought a magazine home toshow Aunt and Mimi, and Aunt
Mimi took a picture of Elvis andwent, The guitar's okay for
Elvis, John, but you will nevermake a living with the guitar,
will you?
John will not get a guitar here.
(07:49):
He's going to go to his mum, andhis mum bought him his guitar.
Now he's got the guitar in thehouse, he's in the bedroom, he's
in the mirror, he thinks he'sElvis, he's hanging his feet on
the floor.
Aunt Mimi downstairs tells Johnthe only time you're going to
play the guitar is the glassporch at the front door.
And if you were lucky to walkalong the road in 1956, you see
(08:09):
John Lennon.
12 months later, you'll see twoguys in that doorway: John
Lennon, Paul McCartney singingharmonies together.
Sadly for John, the 15th of July1958, Julia comes to the house
for a cup of tea and a catch-upwith her sister.
Around about 8 30, 8 45, shesaid goodbye to Mimi at the
gate.
(08:29):
She walked down to the junction,and when she got to the end of
the road, she waved and walkedin the road and got killed by an
off-duty police officer who wasdriving his car home from work.
That man was PC at a clague.
That poor man hit Julia, shedidn't give him a chance.
He was in the court ofLiverpool, but charges were
dropped because witnesses saidthe lady walked in front of the
(08:50):
car, but the lady didn't watchwhere she was going.
Accidental death was recorded atthat junction there.
The year after losing his mum,John then had become a student
of art.
He walked into the art schooland met a wonderful lady with
dark hair and sensible clothes,Cynthia.
But John's idea lady was theFrench movie star Bridget
Bardot.
So the blonde hair replaces thedark hair, the short skirt
(09:11):
replaces the long skirt.
Everyone's asking Cynthia, whatare you doing?
What are you doing with an idiotlike him who's going nowhere?
The two of them made an unlikelycouple, that's for sure.
In 1962, John Lennon had to makea quick phone call to Brian
Epstein and explained thatthere's a problem.
His girlfriend's pregnancy, he'sgetting married.
No, you're not.
Yes, I am, but no, you're not,John.
(09:32):
Pop stars cannot sell recordsand be married.
It won't happen, John.
I can't let it happen.
I've got too much money rollingon this, riding on it.
John insisted, Brian, she'shaving my baby, I'm getting
married.
The date was set for August the23rd, 1962.
John and Cynthia were married atLiverpool Register Office.
While John was on tour in 63,news got through to John, he's
(09:55):
become the father of Julia.
That picture was taken there inthe garden.
Look at John's haircut, he'sright on the brink of something
special that's about to happenfor him.
John moved down to London inOctober 63, and the Beatles are
going to be guaranteed successnow.
Mimi was living here, shedecided to let the house be sold
in 65.
(10:16):
The man who lived in the housewhen I came to see the house for
the first time in 1981 was Mr.
Berkey.
Mr.
Berkey passed away in 1994.
His son handed the house, gotgiven to him, and the son didn't
want the house, and his son soldthe house to Yoko Ono.
Yoko Ono bought the property andgave it away to the National
Trust.
And Andy, who you met before,the guy, he's in charge of the
(10:39):
two houses now.
So National Trust run this houseand run Paul McCartney's house
in tandem.
Good for Yoko to do that.
Well she does a lot of goodstuff.
You know, people, the universityI'm going to show you later, the
University of Liverpool has gotthe Yoko Ono building today.
She does a lot of good stuff,and you know, people just don't
seem to want to accept this.
They think, oh, she broke up theBeatles when she didn't.
(11:01):
She did not, they were alreadyon the way.
They were on the way, they hadto for their own sanity.
Have a look along the piece ofgrass here.
I want you to imagine it's niceand warm, it's 1948, and John
Lennon is playing with hiscousin.
Oh my god.
There you go.
And if you look at the tree,it's going towards the left.
And the car is a 1940s car, andthere's a couple of cars down
(11:24):
there.
John, cousin David, and AuntMimi, you can see.
So there you go.
And this house found even moremusic fans in 1994 when this
house was chosen to be the frontcover of the rock group Oasis.
Oh Live Forever.
Live Forever was a tribute toJohn Lennon and Johnny Rotten.
(11:46):
As I say, well, you know, SidVicious real or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Whatever you want a story, youwant to believe, but listen,
John Lennon, and this the frontcover of the house.
That was the symbol.
SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
So it's fairly obvious that Ringo had a
different, his family had adifferent economic status.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
Ringo, George, Paul, John.
But John lived in a house fullof lies.
You know?
He lived at the nicest house,but the house full of lies the
secrets.
Mimi was a wonderful woman, butthat lady, she had a job in her
hand bringing John up.
And John idolised for her,really.
He did love her because at theend of the day she was there for
him.
There are places I remember for my life Those are
magic, some forever not betterSome are gone and some remain
all these places at bettermoments with lovers and friends
(00:32):
I still can recall Some are deadand some are living my life I've
loved them all But of all thesefriends and lovers There is no
(00:54):
one compares with you And thesememories lose their meaning When
I think of love as something youknow I'll never lose affection
For people and things that wentbefore I know I've something
(01:19):
about them my life I love youmore I'm gonna step off the
vehicle and we're walkingstraight ahead for the flash of
my gates so the home of JohnLennon now Mendips is the name
(02:05):
of the home Aunt Mimi's homeAunt Mimi is the lady that would
look after John.
Aunt Mimi was the eldestdaughter of five girls.
The eldest daughter wasdisciplined, educated, and
became a nurse in the localhospital down the road from
here.
When she walked in the hospital,she met a wonderful man, George
Smith.
George and Mimi began arelationship, he proposed
(02:27):
marriage and they were marriedon the 50th of September 1939
and moved to this wonderfullooking house here.
But Mimi made it quite clearthat if we get married, George,
you're a businessman, I'm acareer lady, we don't need
children.
So they were married and theymoved to the house.
Lovely and calm.
The house she left behind hadfour younger sisters, and Julia
(02:49):
was sister number four out ofthe five girls.
She's the one whose father knewshe was going to cause the
upset.
This is Julia in 1948.
Freddie Lennon in 1964.
They gave us John Lennon, butthey were never photographed
together.
That's the closest I could showyou, John's heardance.
So they gave us John Lennon,they were married on the on the
(03:11):
um the 3rd of December 1938.
John Lennon was born on the 9thof October 1940, and they, as I
say, were separated by war.
War came along, Freddie was awayat war as a sailor, and he was
sending letters back toLiverpool.
Julia would be encouraged byFreddie to go dancing.
She went dancing.
Unfortunately for him, she metsoldiers and sailors.
(03:33):
She had a little fling with asoldier, and that soldier
resulted in a pregnancy.
She's pregnant.
Now she can't let him knowbecause it's not his baby, she
can't let her father know.
Shame on the family.
The only person she can talk tofor any advice is Mimi.
And Mimi was a nurse, and Mimilistened and said to Julia, you
are not gonna have another man'sbaby.
(03:54):
It's as simple as that.
Julia let Mimi take control.
Mimi made a phone call to theCatholic Hospital of Liverpool,
and Julia was taken away whenshe was five months pregnant.
Now she stayed full term.
On the 19th of June 1945, shegave birth to a little baby
girl.
The little girl was given theEnglish name Victoria Elizabeth
(04:17):
Lennon, but the little girl wastaken off Julia forcibly and put
up for adoption on a Norwegianfamily taker and gave her a new
name, Ingrid Maria Peterson.
John Lennon growing up, he nevermet Ingrid Peterson.
Rumour has it, he found outabout her and tried to get a
private detective, but in M daysthere was no internet.
In M days there was no DNA.
(04:38):
The private detective drew ablank of Victoria Elizabeth
Lennon.
Yoko Hono found out about thelady in 1992.
That picture was taken when theymet each other in New York.
Now she came back to London andgave the interview, telling
everyone that my name is IngridPeterson and not Victoria
Lennon.
I have nothing to do with theLennon estate today.
If she's alive and well today,she's 80 now, fair play to her.
(05:00):
Fair play.
So if she's alive and well, Ihope she's healthy.
Keep an eye on the dates here.
19th of June 1945.
1945-46.
Julia is now living with aLiverpool man and his name is
Bobby.
She's still married to Freddie,but that poor man has not come
home from war yet.
Julia is with Bobby and Julia'spregnant.
That's three differentpregnancies with three different
(05:23):
men in just over six years.
Not good.
Julia tells Bobby, and Bobbysays it's the test of her and
made it quite clear, I'm gonnalive with you and my baby, and
John is not my problem.
John is not my son.
So John was brought here.
He's five and a half years ofage.
John would be here, he'd bewaiting at the gates, and John
would watch his mum come off thebus.
(05:44):
And when John sees his mum, heopens the gate, he races down to
greet her and he's taken intoLiverpool.
As he got used to his mum'svisits, school holidays, John's
gonna get that little bit olderand he's gonna ask the awkward
question.
He's asking his mum, where doyou go, mum?
When you go home, I can't comewith you.
Where do you go on the bus?
How long's the journey?
(06:04):
And Julie would say, John, I amyour mum, but I live far away
from a distance.
Mimi is your Liverpool mum.
But when John was headingtowards 13, he's got a relative
from Scotland.
John's cousin was nearly 21years of age, and he said to
John, Tomorrow I'm going to showyou your mum's home.
John said, What bus do we get?
We don't get the bus, John.
(06:25):
We walk.
She's over there.
She's literally 10 minutes overthere behind the golf course.
And when John knocked on thedoor, he was absolutely
heartbroken to realise he's beenlied to.
Because Julia has got twodaughters.
Julia five, Jacqueline, three.
Half sisters that he gets toknow about now.
All the time he didn't know.
(06:46):
And this here is where John wasgiven the home truth by Mimi
that your father hasdisappeared, and your mum Julia
is now living with another man.
She doesn't want to look afteryou, John.
I'm the one who looks after youhere.
Everything's settling down.
John can stay here, he can go tohis mum's, he can stay here and
go to his mum's.
Everything's settling, John'sgoing to school.
(07:06):
Sadly for John, his wonderfuluncle.
He didn't tell his wife theextent of his illness.
Uncle George was not very well.
He passed away of cirrhosis ofthe liver.
The 5th of June 1955, aged only52.
Mimi was all alone with Johncome 1955.
In 1955, 56, sorry, John Lennonwas in that bedroom and he's
(07:27):
listening to the radio.
And who came on the radiosinging Heartbreak Hotel?
Elvis.
Elvis.
The King, the Messiah.
John goes to school, everyone'sgoing crazy for Elvis.
He's brought a magazine home toshow Aunt and Mimi, and Aunt
Mimi took a picture of Elvis andwent, The guitar's okay for
Elvis, John, but you will nevermake a living with the guitar,
will you?
John will not get a guitar here.
(07:49):
He's going to go to his mum, andhis mum bought him his guitar.
Now he's got the guitar in thehouse, he's in the bedroom, he's
in the mirror, he thinks he'sElvis, he's hanging his feet on
the floor.
Aunt Mimi downstairs tells Johnthe only time you're going to
play the guitar is the glassporch at the front door.
And if you were lucky to walkalong the road in 1956, you see
(08:09):
John Lennon.
12 months later, you'll see twoguys in that doorway: John
Lennon, Paul McCartney singingharmonies together.
Sadly for John, the 15th of July1958, Julia comes to the house
for a cup of tea and a catch-upwith her sister.
Around about 8 30, 8 45, shesaid goodbye to Mimi at the
gate.
(08:29):
She walked down to the junction,and when she got to the end of
the road, she waved and walkedin the road and got killed by an
off-duty police officer who wasdriving his car home from work.
That man was PC at a clague.
That poor man hit Julia, shedidn't give him a chance.
He was in the court ofLiverpool, but charges were
dropped because witnesses saidthe lady walked in front of the
(08:50):
car, but the lady didn't watchwhere she was going.
Accidental death was recorded atthat junction there.
The year after losing his mum,John then had become a student
of art.
He walked into the art schooland met a wonderful lady with
dark hair and sensible clothes,Cynthia.
But John's idea lady was theFrench movie star Bridget
Bardot.
So the blonde hair replaces thedark hair, the short skirt
(09:11):
replaces the long skirt.
Everyone's asking Cynthia, whatare you doing?
What are you doing with an idiotlike him who's going nowhere?
The two of them made an unlikelycouple, that's for sure.
In 1962, John Lennon had to makea quick phone call to Brian
Epstein and explained thatthere's a problem.
His girlfriend's pregnancy, he'sgetting married.
No, you're not.
Yes, I am, but no, you're not,John.
(09:32):
Pop stars cannot sell recordsand be married.
It won't happen, John.
I can't let it happen.
I've got too much money rollingon this, riding on it.
John insisted, Brian, she'shaving my baby, I'm getting
married.
The date was set for August the23rd, 1962.
John and Cynthia were married atLiverpool Register Office.
While John was on tour in 63,news got through to John, he's
(09:55):
become the father of Julia.
That picture was taken there inthe garden.
Look at John's haircut, he'sright on the brink of something
special that's about to happenfor him.
John moved down to London inOctober 63, and the Beatles are
going to be guaranteed successnow.
Mimi was living here, shedecided to let the house be sold
in 65.
(10:16):
The man who lived in the housewhen I came to see the house for
the first time in 1981 was Mr.
Berkey.
Mr.
Berkey passed away in 1994.
His son handed the house, gotgiven to him, and the son didn't
want the house, and his son soldthe house to Yoko Ono.
Yoko Ono bought the property andgave it away to the National
Trust.
And Andy, who you met before,the guy, he's in charge of the
(10:39):
two houses now.
So National Trust run this houseand run Paul McCartney's house
in tandem.
Good for Yoko to do that.
Well she does a lot of goodstuff.
You know, people, the universityI'm going to show you later, the
University of Liverpool has gotthe Yoko Ono building today.
She does a lot of good stuff,and you know, people just don't
seem to want to accept this.
They think, oh, she broke up theBeatles when she didn't.
(11:01):
She did not, they were alreadyon the way.
They were on the way, they hadto for their own sanity.
Have a look along the piece ofgrass here.
I want you to imagine it's niceand warm, it's 1948, and John
Lennon is playing with hiscousin.
Oh my god.
There you go.
And if you look at the tree,it's going towards the left.
And the car is a 1940s car, andthere's a couple of cars down
(11:24):
there.
John, cousin David, and AuntMimi, you can see.
So there you go.
And this house found even moremusic fans in 1994 when this
house was chosen to be the frontcover of the rock group Oasis.
Oh Live Forever.
Live Forever was a tribute toJohn Lennon and Johnny Rotten.
(11:46):
As I say, well, you know, SidVicious real or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Whatever you want a story, youwant to believe, but listen,
John Lennon, and this the frontcover of the house.
That was the symbol.
SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
So it's fairly obvious that Ringo had a
different, his family had adifferent economic status.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
Ringo, George, Paul, John.
But John lived in a house fullof lies.
You know?
He lived at the nicest house,but the house full of lies the
secrets.
Mimi was a wonderful woman, butthat lady, she had a job in her
hand bringing John up.
And John idolised for her,really.
He did love her because at theend of the day she was there for
him.
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