This week we're exploring the importance of expansive diversity, the diversity of perspective that invites inclusivity and equity, that creates environments where those within it feel valued and engaged. We're discussing health equity and seeking our shared humanity - diverse, equitable, and inclusive.
This week's episode features Mecca E Mitchell, Senior Vice President for Diversity, Inclusion & Community Engagement and Chief Diversity Officer at Westchester Medical Center Health Network.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are experiencing a paradigm shift, a fundamental
change in the way we usually dothings.
We are intentionally choosing tosee the silver lining
opportunity arises.
We can shine a light on thethings that weren't working well
(00:25):
on those things that weren'treally working at all, we can
regroup reevaluate andre-engineer it's time to explore
new patterns and paradigms thosethat inspire us to rise above
the chaos and explore how theconditions of today and take us
(00:47):
to a better tomorrow patternsand paradigms the pattern
podcast from Hudson Valleypattern for progress.
You're listening to season two,episode seven, shared humanity,
diverse, equitable, andinclusive with your host
pattern, president and CEO,Jonathan Dropkin.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Hi everyone, and welcome to patterns and
paradigms.
We had such great feedback aboutour last episode with Emma
co-taught that we're going toincorporate the perspective of
where we're heading from theyounger generations perspective
as a regular aspect to thepodcast.
Please remember to subscribe andto share any episode of your
(01:32):
choice that you really like withthe Fred.
We appreciate that.
And we look forward to hearingyour comments.
So bubble or trend with all thetalk about the need to break up
big tack.
We were reflecting on how theystarted.
So take Amazon.
(01:53):
It was just a way to get booksby ordering them online.
As bookstores were disappearing,or Netflix was a way to watch a
movie by ordering it online.
If we were asking, was it abubble or a trend?
I am not certain what we wouldhave said many, many years ago,
(02:16):
maybe yes, to the books out ofconvenience, but no to the
movies.
People still wanted to go to themovies and have the experience
as we do right now.
A little movie theater, popcornwouldn't hurt.
So we asked this week, whataspect of the online world will
be the next Amazon or Microsoftup tomorrow?
(02:39):
Send us your prediction.
Before I introduce our guestwhere we'll be discussing health
equity and racial disparity.
I wanted to take a moment withmy partner, Joe Cheika to ask
what's up, Joe and Joe, we havea lot going on, especially even
tomorrow.
(03:00):
So we began our series ofdiscussions with different
levels of government as to howthey have, um, adjusted to the
pandemic.
And also, I think we're going toask them the question of what do
we do to restore confidence ingovernment.
So Joe, you're going to be partof tomorrow's panel with the
(03:22):
mayors.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah.
So we've talked about this alittle bit in the past.
As far as the mayors, we've beenconducting a mayor's forum every
week, since last April.
Um, and they have found itextraordinarily helpful as they
govern through this pandemic andthrough the economic, um, issues
(03:44):
caused by the pandemic.
And so with these guys comingtogether, we've got three of
them.
We've got Kingston,Poughkeepsie, and Middletown.
They're going to talk about allof their concerns, all of their
staff problems, all of theirgoverning issues in terms of
budgeting and, and a whole slewof issues that they deal with
(04:07):
really on an everyday basis.
We've been in, in the situationof really getting a full
understanding about what they'vebeen talking about and dealing
with, and because of theseweekly meetings,
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Joe you're right.
I think that the discussiontomorrow could easily be longer
than an hour.
We have found that the mayorshave been the, some of the
unsung heroes of the pandemic.
So I'm pretty excited that we'regoing to have an opportunity to
have them as the first of ourseries.
But Joe, then we also haveanother event tomorrow, which is
(04:41):
going to, um, help introducepeople to a new program that we
are starting called communityRebuilders.
And it's built off of somethingyou started many years ago.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Sure.
It's a community buildersprogram.
We actually started back in2016, I believe.
And we had two, two classes gothrough the first class was I
believe, eight or nine people.
And the second one was eithersix or seven.
And we had a, you know, a seriesof really cool projects that
ranged from what is going on indowntown Middletown,
(05:17):
specifically this, uh, thisincredible adaptive reuse of an
old, uh, an old retail store ontheir main street.
And it, and we created thisthing called a race for space
and we did business fit outs.
And now we've got three thrivingbusinesses in, uh, in, in, in,
uh, Middletown area.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, and Joe, I just want to say that I went and
visited the new chocolate shopin Middletown, which is as a
result of the very program thatyou designed the race for space
and what an incredible place,what an incredible store, um,
the, the whole aspect, what youdid there in terms of taking a
(06:01):
rail trail, that this was themayor's idea rail trail, and
having a dead end in the city,but how it evolved into, I
really do encourage ourlisteners in the Hudson Valley
to make their way to the, the,uh, this, uh, uh, how would you
describe the, the end?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I would actually describe the entire thing as a
master plan, just to get anotherchocolate tier in the Hudson
Valley, because as you know,chocolate is the most important
thing to the residents of theValley.
Absolutely.
I was there over the weekend aswell.
And what, what a great littleshop, great restaurant, um, in,
in that space as well.
(06:42):
Um, but the community Rebuildersis, is going to be an
extraordinarily valuable, um,tool for, for many people, um,
to understand their community,take a project and hopefully
bring it all the way tofruition.
Uh, it's a long process.
There's a lot to learn.
Um, and we're going to learn asan agency as well, how best to
(07:02):
help these communities, whetherit's a single project or if it's
a series of projects.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So both the, the panel with the mayors and the
education session for applyingto be a member of the new class
take place tomorrow, and mostpeople will be, uh, listening to
this episode.
So I believe that we'll berecording the mayor's panel so
(07:29):
other people can listen to it.
And on the community Rebuilders,you can just look at our website
for application informationabout the program.
And we're really excited aboutboth of these offerings from
pattern.
There's more, there's more
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Doing our monthly housing series, which we're
concentrating this episode onthe eviction moratorium.
And we're going to hear fromsome advocates from some, uh,
officials and talk about theissues faced by both tenants and
property owners.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So if you thought that because there was a holiday
yesterday, that pattern wouldhave, you know, a short week,
it's a short week, but there's alot going on.
So thanks Joe for joining ustoday.
Thank you.
Our guest this week is Mecca EMitchell.
Mecca is the senior vicepresident for diversity
(08:26):
inclusion and communityengagement, as well as the chief
diversity officer at Westchestermedical center, Mecca, his
background includes having beenthe chief diversity officer for
the state of New York doessenior assistant counsel for the
New York state commission ofinvestigation, the executive
(08:49):
director for EEO and diversitymanagement at the New York city
department of education, and wasalso once and assistant district
attorney for the Manhattandistrict attorney's office in
New York city.
Mecca is here to join us fordiscussion on health equity and
racial disparities.
(09:10):
Hi Mecca.
Um, no one expected a pandemiceconomic disruption, and that
was 2020.
And now it's 2021.
How you doing?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
We are doing well.
We are doing well.
Um, as you can imagine, workingat a hospital system and
particular has been, uh,presented its own challenges,
but, uh, like so many others outthere we've had to be resilient.
Um, we've had to figure out howto adjust and adapt in order to
continue to be of service toothers.
(09:44):
Um, and that's both personallyand professionally, but again, I
think these are those times when, um, you fall back on your
strengths and your commitment,your commitment to, uh, to serve
your commitment, to help others.
Um, and, and I've been fortunateto work in an organization where
I've seen that time and timeagain.
And, um, and so it's, it's beenchallenging, which is probably
(10:08):
no surprise, but again, it it's,it's been a time of resilience
and, uh, an adjustment for ushere.
Know,
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You know, I, I realized I should have asked you
that, uh, the question I'veasked the other health people in
the healthcare profession,especially if they work in a
hospital, do you remember thatmoment when you realized, Oh my
God, this is going to be farmore than just a usual day at
(10:39):
Westchester medical center.
We're in for something that is,you know, has been like nothing,
this country has felt in ahundred years.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I do.
I do.
And again, you have to recallbeing in the healthcare field.
I think our level of awareness,um, about what was going on was
somewhat enhanced or, um, youknow, we were a little more
enlightened than most.
And so our immediately ourleaders, um, took the reins and
in kind of message to ourworkforce that here's where
(11:14):
we're at, here's what needs tobe done.
And so that we were able torespond in, in a timely fashion.
But again, it, it seemed surreal, uh, at, at that point that
this is what's actuallyhappening.
Um, and again, I think like,like everyone else, the reality
is that, and it set in hard andfast and we were just in a
(11:35):
position to respond as best wecould.
And fortunately for us, we werewell positioned to respond, um,
to both the initial part ofCOVID, uh, the depths of COVID
the, um, coming out of COVIDsomewhat, and now the COVID
vaccination process.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, and I think, um, when you say fortunately
for, for Westchester,fortunately for the Hudson
Valley, because you serve somuch of the Valley, that
Westchester medical center, weowe a debt of gratitude to the
institution and to all of itsemployees for helping us get
through and getting us to thispoint where we are, you know,
(12:16):
this thing just doesn't seem tohave an ending.
It has it's, you know, we, we,we go into periods where we're
calmer about it and thensomething else happens.
And so, yes, I think we're inone of those periods where the
virus seems to be the number ofinfections seems to be going
down where we have the abilitywhere we're talking about.
(12:39):
Maybe it's not a perfect planfor getting everyone vaccinated,
but we are getting peoplevaccinated.
So I think we're in a goodplace, but actually today I
wanted to talk to you about yourposition, which is I'm the
senior vice president fordiversity inclusion and
community engagement.
And I thought, um, maybe youcould tell us a bit about your
(13:01):
background and how did youarrive at this position?
Um, it, it, you know, withoutwanting to be the spokesperson
of everything that's going on,it's a really important place to
be right now.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
No, I appreciate that.
Um, people who know me well knowthat my, my journey has been
non-linear to say the least, uh,I began my career as an
assistant district attorney inthe Manhattan DA's office.
So, uh, prosecuting violentcrimes, uh, I was a sex crimes
prosecutor.
I was domestic violenceprosecutor, and I planned on
(13:38):
really spending a career incriminal justice.
Um, uh, because I lovedinvestigations.
I love getting at the heart ofwrongdoing and holding people
accountable for wrongdoing.
And then somewhere along theline, I kind of shifted a bit.
And instead of doinginvestigations of criminal
conduct, I started overseeing anoffice at the New York city
(14:00):
department of education thatoversaw, uh, discrimination
complaints.
And so it was a different typeof misconduct related to civil
rights violations.
So whether they were, um, youknow, sexual harassment in the
workplace, racial discrimination, um, uh, you know, uh,
discrimination against thedisabled community, et cetera.
And so in doing that work, whatI found is that a lot of our
(14:21):
work was reactive in nature.
We were always responding tocomplaints of wrongdoing
accurate occurred, and I thoughtto myself, well, instead of
always being reactive, why don'twe put more effort, invest more
time, energy effort, andresources into being proactive
into creating environments inthe workplace where this type of
misconduct doesn't happen in thefirst place.
(14:43):
And that's all about diversityand inclusion and equity.
And so I went back to Cornelland got my certifications and,
uh, diversity management and, um, ELL studies.
And when about creating anoffice that not only responded
to complaints of discrimination,but also engaged in policy and
practice, um, practices andmaking sure we have procedures
(15:05):
in place to create theseequitable work environment.
And so it was doing that workthat eventually brought me to
the attention of the governor'soffice years ago.
And I was asked by the governorto be the chief diversity
officer for the state of NewYork, where I was doing similar
work, just on a larger statewideeffort, um, and really enjoyed
(15:26):
that.
And eventually came toWestchester medical at a time
when the organization wasgrowing into a health network,
we are a 10 hospital systemspread throughout five counties.
And at a time when healthcaretransformation was requiring a
real effort to focus on thingslike health equity to really
engage diverse communities, toreduce health disparities.
(15:47):
And so, as I think about mytransition professionally from
criminal justice to education,to government, to health care,
the realm has changed, but thework that I'm doing at its core
is advocacy work.
I love being an advocate.
I love fighting for issues thatmatter.
I love fighting for people whodon't have a voice.
(16:08):
I love ensuring equity andaccess and increased
opportunities.
And I've had the good fortune ofdoing that across spaces where
the work matters that matters incriminal justice that matters in
education.
It matters in government, and itmatters in healthcare,
especially now in healthcarewith COVID-19 and its impact on
underserved communities.
(16:29):
And so, um, more so than, thananything else, more so than an
attorney, uh, more so than evena diversity practitioner.
I consider myself an advocate.
That's the title that I hold, Iguess, most dear, and that has
propelled me and led to successacross these multiple spaces.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So we're going to touch on all sorts of parts of
your background, but, um, in theaftermath of George Floyd, it
was almost a wake up call forthe country to say, are all of
our institutions engaged indiscussions involving not just
criminal justice and otherareas, but diversity equity
(17:09):
inclusion.
There was a rush to say, tryingto turn the mirror on themselves
as an organization.
Um, it's a shame that, that hadto be the, the moment in time
for some to finally wake up.
But, um, these are harddiscussions.
And what do you normally counselas an advocate to say, how do
(17:34):
you begin?
These are not easy.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
No, they're not, they're not easy at all.
And if done incorrectly canreally be kind of a powder keg
situation for organization.
So I say, you start by starting,you know, you start by broaching
topics with an open heart and anopen mind.
Um, but you have to be sure thatyou have laid the requisite
foundation.
I like to say, meaning you havean organization where, um, there
(18:02):
is some trust, there's somemutual respect.
There's a genuine interest in agenuine understanding about, um,
you know, the fact that I canhave these conversations in a
safe space.
Um, we like to call itpsychological safety that people
can share and be open with eachother, and they're not going to
receive any retaliation orretribution.
(18:23):
Um, and that the leadership isgenuine in their desire to
understand, um, the, theconnection between equity as it
relates to the work that theorganization does.
And that's a key point havingthese conversations in the
abstract, having theseconversations out of context,
won't work the organization, andprimarily the leaders within the
(18:43):
organization have to be able toarticulate the value behind the
why.
Why does diversity matter to ourorganization?
Why does creating inclusiveenvironments matter?
Why does insurance equitymatters?
And so whether you're a foodbank or a school system or a
healthcare organization, it'sthe articulation as to why this
(19:04):
is important for us that mattersthe most, because if you can't
justify the why, you'll neverget even the, the members of the
organization to buy in, youwon't get members of the
community to buy in because youhaven't fully bought in as to
the value of diversity inclusionand equity.
So I think that's, that's whereyou start.
Um, and it's not where you end,but at least ensures that you're
(19:26):
able to have these conversationsand broach these topics in a way
that's going to be productive.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
And I think that, um, you know, some people think in
the way that the recentdiscussions have begun, that it
involves just, you know, um,black people.
And I think that if I understandfrom prior discussions with you,
this is about inclusion of allkinds of people, all races,
(19:55):
gender.
And so it's a much broaderdiscussion though, not to
minimize the need for having a,a enlightened view about, um,
your organization's desire tolook at black people differently
than they had been.
This is a broader discussion.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Of course, I used to start diversity trainings by
saying, when you hear the worddiversity, what do you think
about, and almost uniformally,this was back then, people would
say two things that these areconversations about race and
gender.
And we understand that diversityis, is so much more than that.
Yes, representation matters, butit's so much more than that.
(20:38):
You know, it's understandingthat, you know, there's
geographic diversity, right?
So talent comes from big citieslike New York city in Chicago
just like comes from smallplaces like Syracuse, where I
grew up, right?
Like places in the HudsonValley.
It's understanding thateducational diversity is
important.
Yes, Harvard and Yale phenomenalschools, but you know what other
(20:59):
schools are phenomenal.
The community colleges there isrampant talent in our community
colleges.
It's understanding that thatdiversity of perspective and
thought matters.
It's understanding that I may bea black woman.
Um, but my perspective as ablack woman who grew up in
upstate New York and has a lawdegree is different from the
perspective of a black woman whogrew up in the South, uh, and
(21:21):
went to high school that weshare different life experiences
and all that might be valuableto an organization, but to limit
the conversation, to just beinga conversation about women or
about people of color, um, isreally doing a disservice to the
work, um, because the workforceis so much broader than that.
And it really minimizes whatthis work ultimately is about.
(21:43):
So I say, be expansive.
When you think about diversediversity inclusion, equity, be
as expansive as possible.
Um, if you really want to makestrides, if you really want to
move this work forward.
And that's what I always do.
I have, I have evolvedconversations about this work
because that's the only contextin which this conversation
should be had at this point.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So how do you measure success in, in, in like, it, it
seems like for some, some cases,it would be great.
If you could just have adiscussion, you know, where
people were unwilling to in thepast, but that's not, it doesn't
seem enough somehow that that'swhat, what we're after and
(22:25):
trying to have these kinds ofdiscussions.
So it give me some examples oflike, you know, patterns are
very metric driven organizations.
So, you know, if 11% of theHudson Valley is, uh, black by
demographics, then if a board is11% black, is that how you
(22:51):
measure that it representscommunity or that doesn't really
give it justice to what thisdiscussion is about?
Speaker 4 (22:58):
I think it's one part of the discussion representation
matters.
I mean, that's there, there's nodoubt about that.
But again, to limit this, thiswork to just a numbers game
really takes the intellect outof the exercise.
I tell people, so yes, youshould either have a workforce.
You should have a board.
You should have leadership thatreflects the communities that it
serves, but that's just thestart.
(23:19):
The diversity is the metricinclusion is the goal inclusion
and inclusive environments arewhere everyone is activated.
So simply by having anorganization, you can have
company X and they have atremendous amount of diversity.
Does that naturally mean thateveryone is actively engaged,
that every voice is heard andmatters that people are more
than just cogs in the machinethat they're respected, they're
(23:41):
valued.
They feel like theircontributions are making a, you
know, the two don't go hand inhand necessarily you can have a
very diverse environment and nothave an inclusive or equitable
environment at all.
You can't have the other waythough.
You can not have inclusion andequity without diversity.
And so it's a part of theanswer.
It's a part of the mix.
(24:03):
It is not the totality of whatorganizations should be looking
at.
So again, opening the door,removing barriers, bringing more
people in is one thing, and it'simportant, but what you do with
those people, once you have themin your organizations, how you
value them, how you activatethem, um, how you, you, you
know, help bring them to thepoint of active participation.
(24:25):
That's what really matters.
So it's a part of the answer.
It is not the answer intotality.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Good point.
I mean, really.
I mean, I think that so much ofthese discussions are hard.
Look, I know, as a manager, whenI'm talking to other people
about their organization, thatlet's even talk about hiring
practices so that you, I think,and, and this is where, this is
(24:52):
why we're talking, um, thatit's, it's inculcating the
mindset about recruitment, thatyou are looking at your own
workforce and saying, are weeverything that you just said to
me in the last question, are wediverse?
(25:13):
Are we actually attractingpeople so that we intend for
them to be included in our,decision-making not that we're
checking a box.
So is that a good step or, youknow, one of many actions that
when thinking about filling aposition, we actually give
consideration to diversity.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Of course it is.
I mean, I think, again, it'ssomething you value because you
want to make sure you got thebest, the brightest, the most
innovative, right.
Um, innovation doesn't come fromthe staleness of, of similarity.
You know, that, that old sayingthat, uh, great minds think
alike is a good thing isactually completely wrong.
(25:56):
The tension it's the frictionfrom great minds thinking
differently, that brings aboutthe innovation that
organizations are going to need.
And so again, I think when itcomes to who we're bringing into
organizations to look at castingyour net as wide as possible,
this is not about not looking atmerit.
(26:17):
This is not about disregardingcredentials.
And, and it's sad that peoplemake that, that, um,
relationship between the two,they relate somehow diversity
with a diminishing of criteriaand qualifications, et cetera,
nothing could be farther fromthe truth.
The reality is by casting thewidest net possible.
(26:37):
You're just saying we arelooking at as many qualified
Prudential applicants that areout there in doing so naturally
that population, that groupbecomes more diverse if you've
taken the time to invest in Xand looking in the right places
and the best candidate thatrises to the top, maybe diverse
may not be diverse, but we won'tknow unless we're casting the
(27:01):
net as wide as possible, unlesswe're engaging diverse
professional organizations,historically black colleges and
universities.
We're looking in places that wehadn't necessarily looked for
talent before, because guesswhat talent resides there.
Also, we just have to look forit.
And again, if we make ourselvesattractive as employers, you
(27:21):
will have that diverse talentthat says, you know what?
This is a place I want tocontribute.
This is a place where I willwork longer for less pay.
Um, because I know mycontributions are being valued.
That's what people are lookingfor.
That's what the workforce of thefuture, which by the way, is
going to look very different.
We talk about millennials in theworkplace.
(27:43):
We talk about the fact that thiscountry is going to be a
minority majority country.
So the workforce is going tochange.
Organizations have to be able toadjust and adapt to that change.
If they're going to survive, ifthey're going to stay
competitive and an investment indiversity, inclusion and equity
and increased opportunities willhelp them when it comes to their
(28:03):
competitive edge in this space.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I think that your insight on this, I've always
valued it.
And hopefully our listeners aregoing to listen very carefully
to the responses to the lastcouple of questions.
But since I have you let let's,let's move to the pandemic, um,
it had a disproportionate impacton communities of color.
(28:27):
Um, you work for a healthinstitution that serves many
areas in the Hudson Valley thatthese healthcare disparities,
um, exists prior to COVID.
And, uh, let you expand uponthat.
And then what did the pandemicshow us about it, um, is show us
(28:51):
about the disparities.
Um, I guess what I'm getting atis we should have known there
were issues that existed as aresult of either poverty access
to healthcare.
Um, but then in so many ways,the governor recently used the
example of the low tide.
(29:13):
He said that when low tideoccurs, you actually get to see
what's below the water.
And I actually rather like thatanalogy that the pandemic
exposed us to so many realitiesof life.
What did it tell us about healthdisparities in the Hudson Valley
?
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Sure.
And I think for those of us whohave worked in this space for
some years, and there are manywell-seasoned, um, uh,
healthcare practitioners whowere doing this much longer than
I have, but the issue of healthdisparities has been an issue
that existed long before COVIDit was an issue that was being
actively looked at and addressedlong before COVID, um, you know,
(29:54):
everything from the issues ofblack women and maternal health,
and the fact that black womendie at rates that are exceed our
counterparts, our whitecounterparts in childbirth, um,
that was something and the issueof birth equity.
Um, it had been, uh, and I knowour organization had been
invested heavily and looking atthat issue, the issue of, uh,
(30:16):
disparities amongst the LGBTcommunities, when it comes to
behavioral health and mentalhealth and depression, et
cetera, and just feelingostracized by the healthcare
system, those, uh, disparitiesexisted for some time
disparities and black and Brownand underserved communities were
already there.
What COVID did I think wasreally shine the light and
(30:36):
expose for, for the rest of theworld, um, how vulnerable these
communities were because thesesame vulnerable communities, the
communities that were beingalready ravaged by disparities
and health inequities were nowbeing ravaged by COVID.
And I'm in ravage from the senseof those who were suffering from
chronic illness and their, youknow, death or, um, being
(30:59):
seriously ill from COVID.
But also when you look at thesesame communities and you look at
issues like the socialdeterminants of health, which
you mentioned, these otherdeterminants like housing, you
know, housing contributes tooverall health.
And so in black and Brown andunderserved communities where
people don't have the ability tosocial distance because they are
living in close quarters.
(31:21):
And so COVID has a differentimpact on that community.
When you look at another socialdeterminant employment, the
frontline workers, the ones whodidn't have the luxury of being
able to stay either I work in anice office and I can close my
door and I can stay safe, or Ican work from home.
I can get my laptop and workremotely.
These same community membersdidn't have the ability to do
(31:42):
that.
So their exposure was increased,which led to COVID having a more
significant impact when you lookat things like transportation,
you know, and those communitiesthat have to rely on public
transportation, meaning they'reexposed and, and their
interaction, uh, is different.
The social determinants also hada significant impact on those
most vulnerable communitiesalready.
(32:05):
And so what we saw is what is tobe expected, that you had people
who were dying, people who aresuffering from illness at a
greater rate.
And so the outgrowth of that,and again, I think it's a
beneficial thing is that thelight that was already kind of
shining on health disparitieshas been enhanced and increased
and more resources, more time,attention, more effort is now
(32:28):
being focused on these samecommunities.
I know for us, um, because wehave been designated as the, uh,
the vaccine hub.
One of the things that we did,uh, at WMC health was created
health equity task force.
That task force is specificallydesigned to look at issues of
ensuring health equity, as itcomes to the vaccination
distribution process, we haveover 80 representatives
(32:52):
representing all of the diversecommunities throughout the
Hudson Valley region, because wewant to have their voices.
What are the challenges they'reseeing?
What are the obstacles they'reseeing?
We want those voices to beheard, to make sure that the
equity with regard to who getsvaccinated is something that is
top of mind for everyone.
And so again, I think, you know,the disparities were already
(33:14):
there.
The additional attention being,uh, focused in this area as a
result of COVID is great, but wehave to take advantage of that
opportunity then to look atunderlying causes, to look at
what, put the communities invulnerable positions in the
first place, so that once we areover the COVID and vaccination
hump, um, if we'll get there, wewill get there.
(33:36):
Once we are over that hump, wedon't forget that those same
disparities existed pre COVID.
They will exist post COVID.
And so what's our obligation totry to ensure the health and
wellness and vitality that issustainable, that is
substantive, and that isimpactful in the same
communities.
We can't forget about it.
(33:56):
This isn't something just camein with COVID and we'll go away
when COVID goes away.
No, this was an issue thatexisted before, and it's
something that will exist afterwe have to continue to focus on
it.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
So I know that you have had, you know, especially
working for a hospital, you'vehad your hands full the last,
um, year.
What do we do to keep this Mothis recognition of health
disparities going, um, and notlet it sort of just slide back
to where it was and not, youknow, equity, meat, you know,
(34:28):
how do we make equity part ofthat?
It almost sounds like the firstpart of the discussion we were
having, it's gotta be top ofmind, somehow, any thoughts on
just from the healthcare pointof view, what do we do with the
communities to ensure that theyare treated fairly?
Speaker 4 (34:46):
I think a couple of things, I think healthcare
organizations and organizationsin general have to have
designated offices anddesignated leaders who focus
exclusively on these issues.
You know, it used to be that youcould have someone who would be
in charge of this work.
And I mean, the diversityinclusion equity work, um, who
was, you know, someone who hadother responsibilities, and
(35:08):
we're just gonna overlay thisresponsibility on top of their
existing nine to five job.
No, this work is a permanentnine to five job, and this job
requires a leadership voice.
And again, I'm fortunate.
I am a senior vice president.
I am a member of the seniorleadership team.
I have access to our boardmembers.
I have access to our CEO.
I'm able to help move work alongin a significant way because I
(35:31):
have a certain amount of heft.
Um, when it comes to helping todo this work in my organization,
organizations need to havesomeone with that help with
those relationships, with thataccess to other leaders within
the organization, to help reallyembed this work, to make sure it
is not something that'smarginalized to make sure it's
not something that's a nice todo.
(35:52):
This work has to be aligned withthe mission, vision values of
the organization.
And you do that by havingfull-time people, real resources
allocated just to look at thiswork.
So that's one part.
The other part is something thatwe did successfully well before
COVID happened, which isactually taking the time to
covet relationships with thosesame communities that you serve.
(36:17):
And I mean, real investment.
I mean, getting out into thosecommunities, getting out and
seeing who are the grassrootsleaders, who are the leaders of
the faith-based organizations,who can we help partner with to
create health real health?
Because we can't do that frombehind the four walls of our
hospital system.
So in doing that legwork, doingthat groundwork so that when the
(36:38):
next pandemic happens COVID orsomething else, some other
calamity happens, you are wellpositioned to respond to it.
And again, I I've got to givecredit where credit is due.
We had done that requisitelegwork.
We had fostered thoserelationships.
We had existing communitycouncils.
The issue of health equity issomething we had already been
(37:00):
looking at and focused on.
So when this pandemic hit, wewere better positioned to
respond to it.
I think any organization that isout there that hasn't done that
requisite foundation Lang, um,must do it now.
And I don't care whether you'rehealthcare or not, but you
healthcare in particular becauseof COVID.
But you have to do that nowbecause these issues aren't
(37:23):
going away, the social unrest isnot going away.
COVID in its ramifications.
Aren't going away anytime soon.
And so instead of being in aposition where your organization
is always reactive to what'sgoing on, um, you want to be in
a position where you'reresponsive to what's going on
because you have the properinfrastructure and foundation in
(37:44):
place that you've alreadystarted moving this work within
your organization.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
So I don't know why it just, it brought me back to a
class that I used to teach in,um, a masters in public
administration program and theclass, this was back in the late
1980s, early nineties.
And what we were teaching was,um, for government officials,
(38:12):
people in healthcare, these arethe two typical people that
enroll in a master's in publicadministration.
The course was on the three ease.
It was on efficiency of yourprogram, the effectiveness of
your program, but the 30 was,was it equitable.
(38:33):
And we often that in thediscussions with students who
were mid career people, thatwhat is necessarily efficient or
effective, possibly wasn'talways equitable.
And that, I would say, it's juststruck me as you were talking
(38:55):
maca that the, the, so this isthe hard work that comes after.
Hopefully we get the pandemicunder control and we are living
in the new normal, um, we packand talks to government
officials all the time.
How do we inject the notion ofequity?
(39:16):
Just like you were telling us inthe first part of the discussion
with regard to yourorganizational structure being
inclusive and equitable, but howdo we do it for the delivery of
services and say, stop a minuteand say, are you delivering
those services in a way that isequitable for the communities
(39:37):
that you serve?
So your government experience,your educational experience, any
thoughts on what you would sayif you were the mayor or
something to your departmentheads,
Speaker 4 (39:49):
I'd say just that.
I mean, I literally it's thateasy, you know, apply the lens
of equity and start looking ateverything you do.
Just start looking at yourpolicy, start looking at your
procedures, start looking at howyou engage.
People, start looking at who youhave in the room.
When important decisions aremade, start looking at
everything through a lens ofequity is what I'm doing, the
(40:11):
decision I'm making.
Do I have a reflection of thevarious voices and perspectives?
Have I brought in the rightpeople to share?
Am I taking all of the variousconsiderations into account?
And again, because I know I dothat through the lenses of who I
am, um, because we all do.
I make decisions based upon mylens as a black woman who grew
(40:34):
up in upstate New York, who hasan advanced degree.
And so I see the world that way,I export information that way,
and I import information throughthose lenses.
We all do.
And so to simply say, well, youknow, I'm a pretty equitable
person.
I can see this and I can speakfor all of these various voices.
I don't need to have an array ofpeople around me to help make
decisions is wrong, because I'mstill filtering all of that
(40:56):
through my personal variousdiversity lenses.
So we had to take a step back,you know, release the ego and
assume that there might be valueand having these other people
pulled in as part of theprocess.
And so I think that's one of thefirst things I would say is that
we start from the beginning, goback, dial it back.
(41:16):
Um, you know, it's time torethink relook, recalculate,
recalibrate, um, everything thatwe thought we knew, everything
that we have been doing, and youknow, what you might get to the
end of that process and thatreview and say, you know what?
We wouldn't change anything.
It's all perfect.
And that's fine, but more thanlikely, they're going to be a
couple of changes, um, that youcan make along the way that
(41:39):
increase access, increaseopportunities, increase a sense
of belonging, um, amongst peoplewithin your organization and
amongst the people who you serveexternally.
And that's the point, it's notsaying that you have to change
everything for the sake ofchanging it.
It's saying, can we do thingsdifferently?
Is there another way of doingthis that we hadn't necessarily
considered?
(42:00):
And, and have we been acting ina way that either is more
inclusive or exclusive and whatdo we want to be?
What's our collective identity.
Um, you know, so much of thiswork is about the way the world
sees you, the way you seeyourself, the way those
constituents, who you serve aregoing to relate to you.
And if there are any challengesor barriers to you, being able
(42:23):
to have the impact that youultimately want to have, um,
then you have to be willing tolook at that and you have to be
willing to try to remove that.
We always say in healthcare,we're here to be of service and
in service to the community, topeople who need us.
And so if there's anything that,that presents a barrier, when it
comes to our ability to do that,then we have to be willing to
take a hard look at ourselvesand to remove it if we can.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
It seems to me that, um, whether we're talking about
diversity, equity inclusion,whether we're talking about
vaccinating people, there'salways someone that you can't
get to.
You can't change their mind thatI've been doing it right.
All along.
I, uh, I don't trust thevaccine.
(43:09):
Does this ever get to you in thesense that, how do I get through
to people that the vaccine issafe?
Nope.
Not gonna take the vaccine or inthe other area that you focus on
diversity.
This is just about fairness.
I'm not trying to scare you.
I'm not trying to take away yourpower.
(43:31):
You may even be better off ifthere were, you know, we include
more people with more diverseopinions.
How do you deal with that andwork on that every single day?
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Well, again, I think our obligation is not to tell
people they have to do or don'thave to do anything when it
comes to the vaccine.
Um, we recognize that thedistrust in communities,
especially in black communities,um, is, is based.
In fact, this is not somethingthat is coming out of nowhere.
People remember historically,um, some of the, the, uh,
(44:06):
distrust and the issues andbeing used as Guinea pigs in the
past.
Um, you know, that is somethingthat is very top of mind for
people.
So you can't go in, in a waythat disrespects, that lived
experience.
Um, I think instead of saying,you know, why don't you trust
us?
We have to start from theacknowledgement that healthcare,
(44:26):
um, has in the past for somecommunities, um, Ben and a, an
industry that has causeddistrust that has caused the
community, not to have a senseof trust in what we're being
told.
And so if we start from thatplace that allows us to build
trust, to say, we understandhistorically why you may feel
(44:48):
this way, let us provideinformation.
I'm going to provide anopportunity for you to ask every
question.
There is no question that isconsidered irrelevant or silly.
If it presents a challenge or abarrier to you, then that's a
legitimate question that has tobe addressed.
And so we're going to createthose opportunities for you to
share what your concerns are.
(45:08):
We're going to address them asbest we can.
We're going to offer science andfacts and information.
We're going to offer our owntestimonials as to why it's
important for us and why peoplechose, uh, to get vaccinated.
And then at the end of the day,you will make the decision that
you make the decision that'sbest for you, but it will be an
informed decision.
You would have had all theinformation to help you come to
(45:31):
whatever that conclusionultimately is.
And so that's how we approachthe hesitancy factor.
I think similarly, when it comesto people who no matter what the
issue is, diversity inclusion,equity, access, they just don't
get it.
I think the reality is theirability to survive in this
climate is going to besignificantly jeopardized if
(45:54):
they don't get it.
Uh, again, this is a time ofgreat exposure for
organizations, right?
People are calling organizationsout.
People want to know what yourstance is, what your position
is, what you, um, stand up for,um, who you're supporting, who
you're representing.
Uh, and, and I find, I can'tthink of any organizations that
(46:15):
they credit think about thevarious industries that doesn't
have an investment in thisspace, because it ties directly
to their ability to survive, um,as an organization.
And so again, I think people arebecoming more savvy.
They're holding organizationsaccountable.
They want you to actually putsome resources, um, and, you
(46:35):
know, put your money where yourmouth is, or, or walk the walk.
Um, as opposed to just beingable to put out a statement and
reaction to something that hashappened.
So I think that measure ofaccountability is coming.
And I think organization wouldbe wise to get in front of that
and to start doing some of thiswork, um, proactively instead of
doing it in response to beingcalled out.
(46:58):
Because again, we live in a timeand place where social media and
information and missteps getspread and shared very rapidly.
So I would suggest mostorganizations do their due
diligence and put themselves inthe best position possible with
some genuine, authenticcommitment to this work.
Um, and by doing so again, Ithink it, it helps arm them
(47:22):
against the onslaught ofcriticism or people saying, you
know, what is it you're doing?
And then being ill prepared to acogent response to what it is
you're doing, what's the partyou're playing and this social
movement, what's the part you'replaying to increase equity and
increase opportunities.
How are you making acontribution?
(47:42):
And that has more to do withwhat are you doing?
Um, long-term what are you doingfor black history month?
You know, the time of looking atwhat an organization is doing
during a particular month orduring a particular time, um, is
long gone.
People want to know youridentity as an organization.
Again, what's your credo?
Who are you?
Why should we care?
(48:03):
Why should we support you?
Why should we stand by you?
Why should we work for you?
Why should we patronize you?
Um, why should we buy yourconsumer goods?
All of those are whatorganizations should be thinking
about when it comes to thiswork.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
So I have one last question, and you mentioned it
was black history month and,and, you know, you're absolutely
right.
Um, you've given us so many goodideas and things to think about
that transcend a month that are,should be built into the fabric
of who we are.
Um, I often have, um, uh, goalsand then I have aspirational
(48:42):
goals.
And then I have dreams.
Do you have any dreams about theway, you know, society could
work or should work, or, youknow, that you sort of sit, sit
there and go if only,
Speaker 4 (48:59):
Um, I do.
I do.
Right.
Um, I think my dream and my hopeis that we get to a point of
some shared humanity that we getto a point where, um, you,
Jonathan, you and I, peoplemight look at us and say, well,
what would the two of them havein common, right?
Um, you know, differentbackgrounds, different races,
(49:21):
different genders, et cetera.
And so the hope is through justsome share humanity.
If I find out about you and yourhopes and your dreams and those
aspirations that you talk about.
If I find out a little bit aboutyour journey and your
challenges, if I find out whereyou're going and what you want
in life, um, you want it tolive.
(49:41):
And then I'm able to share thatwith you.
I'm able to share about myconcerns about my son in college
and my 13 year old.
Who's been doing virtuallearning.
If I'm able to share with you,um, my fears, uh, for my husband
as a black man and hisexperiences.
And, and I'm able to share someof that, if I'm able to share my
challenges and how it hasn'talways been easy, being usually
(50:04):
the only woman of color in aleadership position within an
organization, if I'm able toshare how that felt and, you
know, share some of my successesand some of my fears that
there's some overlap that Ithink naturally comes from that
because you find is that people,um, oftentimes have the same
hopes they want, you know, lifelove happiness, right?
(50:27):
They want to have, um, to leavesomething to their kids.
They want to live a life ofcontribution.
And if I can see that in you,and you can see that in me, then
that causes us to have moreconnection than disconnect.
And it causes me to say, youknow what?
We don't have to look alike,sound alike, but there's some
shared humanity between us.
And if that's enough of aconnection to start, then I
(50:48):
think we can kind of build aswe, as we go.
I, I recall, um, years ago Iwas, I was going through an
airport and I saw they had ahuge sign on the wall that said,
if you want to eliminate racism,uh, travel.
And I thought about that, and itseemed rather simplistic, but I
think the heart of the messageis the following.
(51:09):
The more you get out, the moreyou expose yourself beyond your
small world, your small box thatyou exist in, the more you
immerse yourself in othercultures, um, you see how other
people live.
You, you get here and share withpeople from different
backgrounds, so harder.
It is for you to be someone whois Xclusive, who keeps people
(51:30):
out because so much of who youare is no longer you in
isolation.
It's not you out of context,it's you within this bigger
world.
And I think the more we can seeourselves as being part of this
bigger world, and we see thebigger world having a direct
impact on who we are and thequality of life that we want to
(51:50):
have, um, then the better we'llall be for it.
So I guess my that's a big wayof saying my hope is that we can
see some sense of sharedhumanity, um, in each other.
And I think if we are able to dothat role, be better for it.
What a great place to leave thisdiscussion.
Mecca Mitchell, thank you somuch for joining us on patterns
(52:12):
and paradigms.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Always welcome the opportunityto work with pattern and
continue to stay safe and bediligent out there.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Thank you for tuning in to patterns and paradigms the
pattern podcast.
For more information about thisepisode, visit our website
pattern for progress.org forwardslash podcast.
We are experiencing a paradigm shift, a fundamental
change in the way we usually dothings.
We are intentionally choosing tosee the silver lining
opportunity arises.
We can shine a light on thethings that weren't working well
(00:25):
on those things that weren'treally working at all, we can
regroup reevaluate andre-engineer it's time to explore
new patterns and paradigms thosethat inspire us to rise above
the chaos and explore how theconditions of today and take us
(00:47):
to a better tomorrow patternsand paradigms the pattern
podcast from Hudson Valleypattern for progress.
You're listening to season two,episode seven, shared humanity,
diverse, equitable, andinclusive with your host
pattern, president and CEO,Jonathan Dropkin.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Hi everyone, and welcome to patterns and
paradigms.
We had such great feedback aboutour last episode with Emma
co-taught that we're going toincorporate the perspective of
where we're heading from theyounger generations perspective
as a regular aspect to thepodcast.
Please remember to subscribe andto share any episode of your
(01:32):
choice that you really like withthe Fred.
We appreciate that.
And we look forward to hearingyour comments.
So bubble or trend with all thetalk about the need to break up
big tack.
We were reflecting on how theystarted.
So take Amazon.
(01:53):
It was just a way to get booksby ordering them online.
As bookstores were disappearing,or Netflix was a way to watch a
movie by ordering it online.
If we were asking, was it abubble or a trend?
I am not certain what we wouldhave said many, many years ago,
(02:16):
maybe yes, to the books out ofconvenience, but no to the
movies.
People still wanted to go to themovies and have the experience
as we do right now.
A little movie theater, popcornwouldn't hurt.
So we asked this week, whataspect of the online world will
be the next Amazon or Microsoftup tomorrow?
(02:39):
Send us your prediction.
Before I introduce our guestwhere we'll be discussing health
equity and racial disparity.
I wanted to take a moment withmy partner, Joe Cheika to ask
what's up, Joe and Joe, we havea lot going on, especially even
tomorrow.
(03:00):
So we began our series ofdiscussions with different
levels of government as to howthey have, um, adjusted to the
pandemic.
And also, I think we're going toask them the question of what do
we do to restore confidence ingovernment.
So Joe, you're going to be partof tomorrow's panel with the
(03:22):
mayors.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah.
So we've talked about this alittle bit in the past.
As far as the mayors, we've beenconducting a mayor's forum every
week, since last April.
Um, and they have found itextraordinarily helpful as they
govern through this pandemic andthrough the economic, um, issues
(03:44):
caused by the pandemic.
And so with these guys comingtogether, we've got three of
them.
We've got Kingston,Poughkeepsie, and Middletown.
They're going to talk about allof their concerns, all of their
staff problems, all of theirgoverning issues in terms of
budgeting and, and a whole slewof issues that they deal with
(04:07):
really on an everyday basis.
We've been in, in the situationof really getting a full
understanding about what they'vebeen talking about and dealing
with, and because of theseweekly meetings,
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Joe you're right.
I think that the discussiontomorrow could easily be longer
than an hour.
We have found that the mayorshave been the, some of the
unsung heroes of the pandemic.
So I'm pretty excited that we'regoing to have an opportunity to
have them as the first of ourseries.
But Joe, then we also haveanother event tomorrow, which is
(04:41):
going to, um, help introducepeople to a new program that we
are starting called communityRebuilders.
And it's built off of somethingyou started many years ago.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Sure.
It's a community buildersprogram.
We actually started back in2016, I believe.
And we had two, two classes gothrough the first class was I
believe, eight or nine people.
And the second one was eithersix or seven.
And we had a, you know, a seriesof really cool projects that
ranged from what is going on indowntown Middletown,
(05:17):
specifically this, uh, thisincredible adaptive reuse of an
old, uh, an old retail store ontheir main street.
And it, and we created thisthing called a race for space
and we did business fit outs.
And now we've got three thrivingbusinesses in, uh, in, in, in,
uh, Middletown area.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, and Joe, I just want to say that I went and
visited the new chocolate shopin Middletown, which is as a
result of the very program thatyou designed the race for space
and what an incredible place,what an incredible store, um,
the, the whole aspect, what youdid there in terms of taking a
(06:01):
rail trail, that this was themayor's idea rail trail, and
having a dead end in the city,but how it evolved into, I
really do encourage ourlisteners in the Hudson Valley
to make their way to the, the,uh, this, uh, uh, how would you
describe the, the end?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I would actually describe the entire thing as a
master plan, just to get anotherchocolate tier in the Hudson
Valley, because as you know,chocolate is the most important
thing to the residents of theValley.
Absolutely.
I was there over the weekend aswell.
And what, what a great littleshop, great restaurant, um, in,
in that space as well.
(06:42):
Um, but the community Rebuildersis, is going to be an
extraordinarily valuable, um,tool for, for many people, um,
to understand their community,take a project and hopefully
bring it all the way tofruition.
Uh, it's a long process.
There's a lot to learn.
Um, and we're going to learn asan agency as well, how best to
(07:02):
help these communities, whetherit's a single project or if it's
a series of projects.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So both the, the panel with the mayors and the
education session for applyingto be a member of the new class
take place tomorrow, and mostpeople will be, uh, listening to
this episode.
So I believe that we'll berecording the mayor's panel so
(07:29):
other people can listen to it.
And on the community Rebuilders,you can just look at our website
for application informationabout the program.
And we're really excited aboutboth of these offerings from
pattern.
There's more, there's more
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Doing our monthly housing series, which we're
concentrating this episode onthe eviction moratorium.
And we're going to hear fromsome advocates from some, uh,
officials and talk about theissues faced by both tenants and
property owners.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So if you thought that because there was a holiday
yesterday, that pattern wouldhave, you know, a short week,
it's a short week, but there's alot going on.
So thanks Joe for joining ustoday.
Thank you.
Our guest this week is Mecca EMitchell.
Mecca is the senior vicepresident for diversity
(08:26):
inclusion and communityengagement, as well as the chief
diversity officer at Westchestermedical center, Mecca, his
background includes having beenthe chief diversity officer for
the state of New York doessenior assistant counsel for the
New York state commission ofinvestigation, the executive
(08:49):
director for EEO and diversitymanagement at the New York city
department of education, and wasalso once and assistant district
attorney for the Manhattandistrict attorney's office in
New York city.
Mecca is here to join us fordiscussion on health equity and
racial disparities.
(09:10):
Hi Mecca.
Um, no one expected a pandemiceconomic disruption, and that
was 2020.
And now it's 2021.
How you doing?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
We are doing well.
We are doing well.
Um, as you can imagine, workingat a hospital system and
particular has been, uh,presented its own challenges,
but, uh, like so many others outthere we've had to be resilient.
Um, we've had to figure out howto adjust and adapt in order to
continue to be of service toothers.
(09:44):
Um, and that's both personallyand professionally, but again, I
think these are those times when, um, you fall back on your
strengths and your commitment,your commitment to, uh, to serve
your commitment, to help others.
Um, and, and I've been fortunateto work in an organization where
I've seen that time and timeagain.
And, um, and so it's, it's beenchallenging, which is probably
(10:08):
no surprise, but again, it it's,it's been a time of resilience
and, uh, an adjustment for ushere.
Know,
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You know, I, I realized I should have asked you
that, uh, the question I'veasked the other health people in
the healthcare profession,especially if they work in a
hospital, do you remember thatmoment when you realized, Oh my
God, this is going to be farmore than just a usual day at
(10:39):
Westchester medical center.
We're in for something that is,you know, has been like nothing,
this country has felt in ahundred years.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I do.
I do.
And again, you have to recallbeing in the healthcare field.
I think our level of awareness,um, about what was going on was
somewhat enhanced or, um, youknow, we were a little more
enlightened than most.
And so our immediately ourleaders, um, took the reins and
in kind of message to ourworkforce that here's where
(11:14):
we're at, here's what needs tobe done.
And so that we were able torespond in, in a timely fashion.
But again, it, it seemed surreal, uh, at, at that point that
this is what's actuallyhappening.
Um, and again, I think like,like everyone else, the reality
is that, and it set in hard andfast and we were just in a
(11:35):
position to respond as best wecould.
And fortunately for us, we werewell positioned to respond, um,
to both the initial part ofCOVID, uh, the depths of COVID
the, um, coming out of COVIDsomewhat, and now the COVID
vaccination process.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, and I think, um, when you say fortunately
for, for Westchester,fortunately for the Hudson
Valley, because you serve somuch of the Valley, that
Westchester medical center, weowe a debt of gratitude to the
institution and to all of itsemployees for helping us get
through and getting us to thispoint where we are, you know,
(12:16):
this thing just doesn't seem tohave an ending.
It has it's, you know, we, we,we go into periods where we're
calmer about it and thensomething else happens.
And so, yes, I think we're inone of those periods where the
virus seems to be the number ofinfections seems to be going
down where we have the abilitywhere we're talking about.
(12:39):
Maybe it's not a perfect planfor getting everyone vaccinated,
but we are getting peoplevaccinated.
So I think we're in a goodplace, but actually today I
wanted to talk to you about yourposition, which is I'm the
senior vice president fordiversity inclusion and
community engagement.
And I thought, um, maybe youcould tell us a bit about your
(13:01):
background and how did youarrive at this position?
Um, it, it, you know, withoutwanting to be the spokesperson
of everything that's going on,it's a really important place to
be right now.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
No, I appreciate that.
Um, people who know me well knowthat my, my journey has been
non-linear to say the least, uh,I began my career as an
assistant district attorney inthe Manhattan DA's office.
So, uh, prosecuting violentcrimes, uh, I was a sex crimes
prosecutor.
I was domestic violenceprosecutor, and I planned on
(13:38):
really spending a career incriminal justice.
Um, uh, because I lovedinvestigations.
I love getting at the heart ofwrongdoing and holding people
accountable for wrongdoing.
And then somewhere along theline, I kind of shifted a bit.
And instead of doinginvestigations of criminal
conduct, I started overseeing anoffice at the New York city
(14:00):
department of education thatoversaw, uh, discrimination
complaints.
And so it was a different typeof misconduct related to civil
rights violations.
So whether they were, um, youknow, sexual harassment in the
workplace, racial discrimination, um, uh, you know, uh,
discrimination against thedisabled community, et cetera.
And so in doing that work, whatI found is that a lot of our
(14:21):
work was reactive in nature.
We were always responding tocomplaints of wrongdoing
accurate occurred, and I thoughtto myself, well, instead of
always being reactive, why don'twe put more effort, invest more
time, energy effort, andresources into being proactive
into creating environments inthe workplace where this type of
misconduct doesn't happen in thefirst place.
(14:43):
And that's all about diversityand inclusion and equity.
And so I went back to Cornelland got my certifications and,
uh, diversity management and, um, ELL studies.
And when about creating anoffice that not only responded
to complaints of discrimination,but also engaged in policy and
practice, um, practices andmaking sure we have procedures
(15:05):
in place to create theseequitable work environment.
And so it was doing that workthat eventually brought me to
the attention of the governor'soffice years ago.
And I was asked by the governorto be the chief diversity
officer for the state of NewYork, where I was doing similar
work, just on a larger statewideeffort, um, and really enjoyed
(15:26):
that.
And eventually came toWestchester medical at a time
when the organization wasgrowing into a health network,
we are a 10 hospital systemspread throughout five counties.
And at a time when healthcaretransformation was requiring a
real effort to focus on thingslike health equity to really
engage diverse communities, toreduce health disparities.
(15:47):
And so, as I think about mytransition professionally from
criminal justice to education,to government, to health care,
the realm has changed, but thework that I'm doing at its core
is advocacy work.
I love being an advocate.
I love fighting for issues thatmatter.
I love fighting for people whodon't have a voice.
(16:08):
I love ensuring equity andaccess and increased
opportunities.
And I've had the good fortune ofdoing that across spaces where
the work matters that matters incriminal justice that matters in
education.
It matters in government, and itmatters in healthcare,
especially now in healthcarewith COVID-19 and its impact on
underserved communities.
(16:29):
And so, um, more so than, thananything else, more so than an
attorney, uh, more so than evena diversity practitioner.
I consider myself an advocate.
That's the title that I hold, Iguess, most dear, and that has
propelled me and led to successacross these multiple spaces.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So we're going to touch on all sorts of parts of
your background, but, um, in theaftermath of George Floyd, it
was almost a wake up call forthe country to say, are all of
our institutions engaged indiscussions involving not just
criminal justice and otherareas, but diversity equity
(17:09):
inclusion.
There was a rush to say, tryingto turn the mirror on themselves
as an organization.
Um, it's a shame that, that hadto be the, the moment in time
for some to finally wake up.
But, um, these are harddiscussions.
And what do you normally counselas an advocate to say, how do
(17:34):
you begin?
These are not easy.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
No, they're not, they're not easy at all.
And if done incorrectly canreally be kind of a powder keg
situation for organization.
So I say, you start by starting,you know, you start by broaching
topics with an open heart and anopen mind.
Um, but you have to be sure thatyou have laid the requisite
foundation.
I like to say, meaning you havean organization where, um, there
(18:02):
is some trust, there's somemutual respect.
There's a genuine interest in agenuine understanding about, um,
you know, the fact that I canhave these conversations in a
safe space.
Um, we like to call itpsychological safety that people
can share and be open with eachother, and they're not going to
receive any retaliation orretribution.
(18:23):
Um, and that the leadership isgenuine in their desire to
understand, um, the, theconnection between equity as it
relates to the work that theorganization does.
And that's a key point havingthese conversations in the
abstract, having theseconversations out of context,
won't work the organization, andprimarily the leaders within the
(18:43):
organization have to be able toarticulate the value behind the
why.
Why does diversity matter to ourorganization?
Why does creating inclusiveenvironments matter?
Why does insurance equitymatters?
And so whether you're a foodbank or a school system or a
healthcare organization, it'sthe articulation as to why this
(19:04):
is important for us that mattersthe most, because if you can't
justify the why, you'll neverget even the, the members of the
organization to buy in, youwon't get members of the
community to buy in because youhaven't fully bought in as to
the value of diversity inclusionand equity.
So I think that's, that's whereyou start.
Um, and it's not where you end,but at least ensures that you're
(19:26):
able to have these conversationsand broach these topics in a way
that's going to be productive.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
And I think that, um, you know, some people think in
the way that the recentdiscussions have begun, that it
involves just, you know, um,black people.
And I think that if I understandfrom prior discussions with you,
this is about inclusion of allkinds of people, all races,
(19:55):
gender.
And so it's a much broaderdiscussion though, not to
minimize the need for having a,a enlightened view about, um,
your organization's desire tolook at black people differently
than they had been.
This is a broader discussion.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Of course, I used to start diversity trainings by
saying, when you hear the worddiversity, what do you think
about, and almost uniformally,this was back then, people would
say two things that these areconversations about race and
gender.
And we understand that diversityis, is so much more than that.
Yes, representation matters, butit's so much more than that.
(20:38):
You know, it's understandingthat, you know, there's
geographic diversity, right?
So talent comes from big citieslike New York city in Chicago
just like comes from smallplaces like Syracuse, where I
grew up, right?
Like places in the HudsonValley.
It's understanding thateducational diversity is
important.
Yes, Harvard and Yale phenomenalschools, but you know what other
(20:59):
schools are phenomenal.
The community colleges there isrampant talent in our community
colleges.
It's understanding that thatdiversity of perspective and
thought matters.
It's understanding that I may bea black woman.
Um, but my perspective as ablack woman who grew up in
upstate New York and has a lawdegree is different from the
perspective of a black woman whogrew up in the South, uh, and
(21:21):
went to high school that weshare different life experiences
and all that might be valuableto an organization, but to limit
the conversation, to just beinga conversation about women or
about people of color, um, isreally doing a disservice to the
work, um, because the workforceis so much broader than that.
And it really minimizes whatthis work ultimately is about.
(21:43):
So I say, be expansive.
When you think about diversediversity inclusion, equity, be
as expansive as possible.
Um, if you really want to makestrides, if you really want to
move this work forward.
And that's what I always do.
I have, I have evolvedconversations about this work
because that's the only contextin which this conversation
should be had at this point.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So how do you measure success in, in, in like, it, it
seems like for some, some cases,it would be great.
If you could just have adiscussion, you know, where
people were unwilling to in thepast, but that's not, it doesn't
seem enough somehow that that'swhat, what we're after and
(22:25):
trying to have these kinds ofdiscussions.
So it give me some examples oflike, you know, patterns are
very metric driven organizations.
So, you know, if 11% of theHudson Valley is, uh, black by
demographics, then if a board is11% black, is that how you
(22:51):
measure that it representscommunity or that doesn't really
give it justice to what thisdiscussion is about?
Speaker 4 (22:58):
I think it's one part of the discussion representation
matters.
I mean, that's there, there's nodoubt about that.
But again, to limit this, thiswork to just a numbers game
really takes the intellect outof the exercise.
I tell people, so yes, youshould either have a workforce.
You should have a board.
You should have leadership thatreflects the communities that it
serves, but that's just thestart.
(23:19):
The diversity is the metricinclusion is the goal inclusion
and inclusive environments arewhere everyone is activated.
So simply by having anorganization, you can have
company X and they have atremendous amount of diversity.
Does that naturally mean thateveryone is actively engaged,
that every voice is heard andmatters that people are more
than just cogs in the machinethat they're respected, they're
(23:41):
valued.
They feel like theircontributions are making a, you
know, the two don't go hand inhand necessarily you can have a
very diverse environment and nothave an inclusive or equitable
environment at all.
You can't have the other waythough.
You can not have inclusion andequity without diversity.
And so it's a part of theanswer.
It's a part of the mix.
(24:03):
It is not the totality of whatorganizations should be looking
at.
So again, opening the door,removing barriers, bringing more
people in is one thing, and it'simportant, but what you do with
those people, once you have themin your organizations, how you
value them, how you activatethem, um, how you, you, you
know, help bring them to thepoint of active participation.
(24:25):
That's what really matters.
So it's a part of the answer.
It is not the answer intotality.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Good point.
I mean, really.
I mean, I think that so much ofthese discussions are hard.
Look, I know, as a manager, whenI'm talking to other people
about their organization, thatlet's even talk about hiring
practices so that you, I think,and, and this is where, this is
(24:52):
why we're talking, um, thatit's, it's inculcating the
mindset about recruitment, thatyou are looking at your own
workforce and saying, are weeverything that you just said to
me in the last question, are wediverse?
(25:13):
Are we actually attractingpeople so that we intend for
them to be included in our,decision-making not that we're
checking a box.
So is that a good step or, youknow, one of many actions that
when thinking about filling aposition, we actually give
consideration to diversity.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Of course it is.
I mean, I think, again, it'ssomething you value because you
want to make sure you got thebest, the brightest, the most
innovative, right.
Um, innovation doesn't come fromthe staleness of, of similarity.
You know, that, that old sayingthat, uh, great minds think
alike is a good thing isactually completely wrong.
(25:56):
The tension it's the frictionfrom great minds thinking
differently, that brings aboutthe innovation that
organizations are going to need.
And so again, I think when itcomes to who we're bringing into
organizations to look at castingyour net as wide as possible,
this is not about not looking atmerit.
(26:17):
This is not about disregardingcredentials.
And, and it's sad that peoplemake that, that, um,
relationship between the two,they relate somehow diversity
with a diminishing of criteriaand qualifications, et cetera,
nothing could be farther fromthe truth.
The reality is by casting thewidest net possible.
(26:37):
You're just saying we arelooking at as many qualified
Prudential applicants that areout there in doing so naturally
that population, that groupbecomes more diverse if you've
taken the time to invest in Xand looking in the right places
and the best candidate thatrises to the top, maybe diverse
may not be diverse, but we won'tknow unless we're casting the
(27:01):
net as wide as possible, unlesswe're engaging diverse
professional organizations,historically black colleges and
universities.
We're looking in places that wehadn't necessarily looked for
talent before, because guesswhat talent resides there.
Also, we just have to look forit.
And again, if we make ourselvesattractive as employers, you
(27:21):
will have that diverse talentthat says, you know what?
This is a place I want tocontribute.
This is a place where I willwork longer for less pay.
Um, because I know mycontributions are being valued.
That's what people are lookingfor.
That's what the workforce of thefuture, which by the way, is
going to look very different.
We talk about millennials in theworkplace.
(27:43):
We talk about the fact that thiscountry is going to be a
minority majority country.
So the workforce is going tochange.
Organizations have to be able toadjust and adapt to that change.
If they're going to survive, ifthey're going to stay
competitive and an investment indiversity, inclusion and equity
and increased opportunities willhelp them when it comes to their
(28:03):
competitive edge in this space.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I think that your insight on this, I've always
valued it.
And hopefully our listeners aregoing to listen very carefully
to the responses to the lastcouple of questions.
But since I have you let let's,let's move to the pandemic, um,
it had a disproportionate impacton communities of color.
(28:27):
Um, you work for a healthinstitution that serves many
areas in the Hudson Valley thatthese healthcare disparities,
um, exists prior to COVID.
And, uh, let you expand uponthat.
And then what did the pandemicshow us about it, um, is show us
(28:51):
about the disparities.
Um, I guess what I'm getting atis we should have known there
were issues that existed as aresult of either poverty access
to healthcare.
Um, but then in so many ways,the governor recently used the
example of the low tide.
(29:13):
He said that when low tideoccurs, you actually get to see
what's below the water.
And I actually rather like thatanalogy that the pandemic
exposed us to so many realitiesof life.
What did it tell us about healthdisparities in the Hudson Valley
?
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Sure.
And I think for those of us whohave worked in this space for
some years, and there are manywell-seasoned, um, uh,
healthcare practitioners whowere doing this much longer than
I have, but the issue of healthdisparities has been an issue
that existed long before COVIDit was an issue that was being
actively looked at and addressedlong before COVID, um, you know,
(29:54):
everything from the issues ofblack women and maternal health,
and the fact that black womendie at rates that are exceed our
counterparts, our whitecounterparts in childbirth, um,
that was something and the issueof birth equity.
Um, it had been, uh, and I knowour organization had been
invested heavily and looking atthat issue, the issue of, uh,
(30:16):
disparities amongst the LGBTcommunities, when it comes to
behavioral health and mentalhealth and depression, et
cetera, and just feelingostracized by the healthcare
system, those, uh, disparitiesexisted for some time
disparities and black and Brownand underserved communities were
already there.
What COVID did I think wasreally shine the light and
(30:36):
expose for, for the rest of theworld, um, how vulnerable these
communities were because thesesame vulnerable communities, the
communities that were beingalready ravaged by disparities
and health inequities were nowbeing ravaged by COVID.
And I'm in ravage from the senseof those who were suffering from
chronic illness and their, youknow, death or, um, being
(30:59):
seriously ill from COVID.
But also when you look at thesesame communities and you look at
issues like the socialdeterminants of health, which
you mentioned, these otherdeterminants like housing, you
know, housing contributes tooverall health.
And so in black and Brown andunderserved communities where
people don't have the ability tosocial distance because they are
living in close quarters.
(31:21):
And so COVID has a differentimpact on that community.
When you look at another socialdeterminant employment, the
frontline workers, the ones whodidn't have the luxury of being
able to stay either I work in anice office and I can close my
door and I can stay safe, or Ican work from home.
I can get my laptop and workremotely.
These same community membersdidn't have the ability to do
(31:42):
that.
So their exposure was increased,which led to COVID having a more
significant impact when you lookat things like transportation,
you know, and those communitiesthat have to rely on public
transportation, meaning they'reexposed and, and their
interaction, uh, is different.
The social determinants also hada significant impact on those
most vulnerable communitiesalready.
(32:05):
And so what we saw is what is tobe expected, that you had people
who were dying, people who aresuffering from illness at a
greater rate.
And so the outgrowth of that,and again, I think it's a
beneficial thing is that thelight that was already kind of
shining on health disparitieshas been enhanced and increased
and more resources, more time,attention, more effort is now
(32:28):
being focused on these samecommunities.
I know for us, um, because wehave been designated as the, uh,
the vaccine hub.
One of the things that we did,uh, at WMC health was created
health equity task force.
That task force is specificallydesigned to look at issues of
ensuring health equity, as itcomes to the vaccination
distribution process, we haveover 80 representatives
(32:52):
representing all of the diversecommunities throughout the
Hudson Valley region, because wewant to have their voices.
What are the challenges they'reseeing?
What are the obstacles they'reseeing?
We want those voices to beheard, to make sure that the
equity with regard to who getsvaccinated is something that is
top of mind for everyone.
And so again, I think, you know,the disparities were already
(33:14):
there.
The additional attention being,uh, focused in this area as a
result of COVID is great, but wehave to take advantage of that
opportunity then to look atunderlying causes, to look at
what, put the communities invulnerable positions in the
first place, so that once we areover the COVID and vaccination
hump, um, if we'll get there, wewill get there.
(33:36):
Once we are over that hump, wedon't forget that those same
disparities existed pre COVID.
They will exist post COVID.
And so what's our obligation totry to ensure the health and
wellness and vitality that issustainable, that is
substantive, and that isimpactful in the same
communities.
We can't forget about it.
(33:56):
This isn't something just camein with COVID and we'll go away
when COVID goes away.
No, this was an issue thatexisted before, and it's
something that will exist afterwe have to continue to focus on
it.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
So I know that you have had, you know, especially
working for a hospital, you'vehad your hands full the last,
um, year.
What do we do to keep this Mothis recognition of health
disparities going, um, and notlet it sort of just slide back
to where it was and not, youknow, equity, meat, you know,
(34:28):
how do we make equity part ofthat?
It almost sounds like the firstpart of the discussion we were
having, it's gotta be top ofmind, somehow, any thoughts on
just from the healthcare pointof view, what do we do with the
communities to ensure that theyare treated fairly?
Speaker 4 (34:46):
I think a couple of things, I think healthcare
organizations and organizationsin general have to have
designated offices anddesignated leaders who focus
exclusively on these issues.
You know, it used to be that youcould have someone who would be
in charge of this work.
And I mean, the diversityinclusion equity work, um, who
was, you know, someone who hadother responsibilities, and
(35:08):
we're just gonna overlay thisresponsibility on top of their
existing nine to five job.
No, this work is a permanentnine to five job, and this job
requires a leadership voice.
And again, I'm fortunate.
I am a senior vice president.
I am a member of the seniorleadership team.
I have access to our boardmembers.
I have access to our CEO.
I'm able to help move work alongin a significant way because I
(35:31):
have a certain amount of heft.
Um, when it comes to helping todo this work in my organization,
organizations need to havesomeone with that help with
those relationships, with thataccess to other leaders within
the organization, to help reallyembed this work, to make sure it
is not something that'smarginalized to make sure it's
not something that's a nice todo.
(35:52):
This work has to be aligned withthe mission, vision values of
the organization.
And you do that by havingfull-time people, real resources
allocated just to look at thiswork.
So that's one part.
The other part is something thatwe did successfully well before
COVID happened, which isactually taking the time to
covet relationships with thosesame communities that you serve.
(36:17):
And I mean, real investment.
I mean, getting out into thosecommunities, getting out and
seeing who are the grassrootsleaders, who are the leaders of
the faith-based organizations,who can we help partner with to
create health real health?
Because we can't do that frombehind the four walls of our
hospital system.
So in doing that legwork, doingthat groundwork so that when the
(36:38):
next pandemic happens COVID orsomething else, some other
calamity happens, you are wellpositioned to respond to it.
And again, I I've got to givecredit where credit is due.
We had done that requisitelegwork.
We had fostered thoserelationships.
We had existing communitycouncils.
The issue of health equity issomething we had already been
(37:00):
looking at and focused on.
So when this pandemic hit, wewere better positioned to
respond to it.
I think any organization that isout there that hasn't done that
requisite foundation Lang, um,must do it now.
And I don't care whether you'rehealthcare or not, but you
healthcare in particular becauseof COVID.
But you have to do that nowbecause these issues aren't
(37:23):
going away, the social unrest isnot going away.
COVID in its ramifications.
Aren't going away anytime soon.
And so instead of being in aposition where your organization
is always reactive to what'sgoing on, um, you want to be in
a position where you'reresponsive to what's going on
because you have the properinfrastructure and foundation in
(37:44):
place that you've alreadystarted moving this work within
your organization.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
So I don't know why it just, it brought me back to a
class that I used to teach in,um, a masters in public
administration program and theclass, this was back in the late
1980s, early nineties.
And what we were teaching was,um, for government officials,
(38:12):
people in healthcare, these arethe two typical people that
enroll in a master's in publicadministration.
The course was on the three ease.
It was on efficiency of yourprogram, the effectiveness of
your program, but the 30 was,was it equitable.
(38:33):
And we often that in thediscussions with students who
were mid career people, thatwhat is necessarily efficient or
effective, possibly wasn'talways equitable.
And that, I would say, it's juststruck me as you were talking
(38:55):
maca that the, the, so this isthe hard work that comes after.
Hopefully we get the pandemicunder control and we are living
in the new normal, um, we packand talks to government
officials all the time.
How do we inject the notion ofequity?
(39:16):
Just like you were telling us inthe first part of the discussion
with regard to yourorganizational structure being
inclusive and equitable, but howdo we do it for the delivery of
services and say, stop a minuteand say, are you delivering
those services in a way that isequitable for the communities
(39:37):
that you serve?
So your government experience,your educational experience, any
thoughts on what you would sayif you were the mayor or
something to your departmentheads,
Speaker 4 (39:49):
I'd say just that.
I mean, I literally it's thateasy, you know, apply the lens
of equity and start looking ateverything you do.
Just start looking at yourpolicy, start looking at your
procedures, start looking at howyou engage.
People, start looking at who youhave in the room.
When important decisions aremade, start looking at
everything through a lens ofequity is what I'm doing, the
(40:11):
decision I'm making.
Do I have a reflection of thevarious voices and perspectives?
Have I brought in the rightpeople to share?
Am I taking all of the variousconsiderations into account?
And again, because I know I dothat through the lenses of who I
am, um, because we all do.
I make decisions based upon mylens as a black woman who grew
(40:34):
up in upstate New York, who hasan advanced degree.
And so I see the world that way,I export information that way,
and I import information throughthose lenses.
We all do.
And so to simply say, well, youknow, I'm a pretty equitable
person.
I can see this and I can speakfor all of these various voices.
I don't need to have an array ofpeople around me to help make
decisions is wrong, because I'mstill filtering all of that
(40:56):
through my personal variousdiversity lenses.
So we had to take a step back,you know, release the ego and
assume that there might be valueand having these other people
pulled in as part of theprocess.
And so I think that's one of thefirst things I would say is that
we start from the beginning, goback, dial it back.
(41:16):
Um, you know, it's time torethink relook, recalculate,
recalibrate, um, everything thatwe thought we knew, everything
that we have been doing, and youknow, what you might get to the
end of that process and thatreview and say, you know what?
We wouldn't change anything.
It's all perfect.
And that's fine, but more thanlikely, they're going to be a
couple of changes, um, that youcan make along the way that
(41:39):
increase access, increaseopportunities, increase a sense
of belonging, um, amongst peoplewithin your organization and
amongst the people who you serveexternally.
And that's the point, it's notsaying that you have to change
everything for the sake ofchanging it.
It's saying, can we do thingsdifferently?
Is there another way of doingthis that we hadn't necessarily
considered?
(42:00):
And, and have we been acting ina way that either is more
inclusive or exclusive and whatdo we want to be?
What's our collective identity.
Um, you know, so much of thiswork is about the way the world
sees you, the way you seeyourself, the way those
constituents, who you serve aregoing to relate to you.
And if there are any challengesor barriers to you, being able
(42:23):
to have the impact that youultimately want to have, um,
then you have to be willing tolook at that and you have to be
willing to try to remove that.
We always say in healthcare,we're here to be of service and
in service to the community, topeople who need us.
And so if there's anything that,that presents a barrier, when it
comes to our ability to do that,then we have to be willing to
take a hard look at ourselvesand to remove it if we can.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
It seems to me that, um, whether we're talking about
diversity, equity inclusion,whether we're talking about
vaccinating people, there'salways someone that you can't
get to.
You can't change their mind thatI've been doing it right.
All along.
I, uh, I don't trust thevaccine.
(43:09):
Does this ever get to you in thesense that, how do I get through
to people that the vaccine issafe?
Nope.
Not gonna take the vaccine or inthe other area that you focus on
diversity.
This is just about fairness.
I'm not trying to scare you.
I'm not trying to take away yourpower.
(43:31):
You may even be better off ifthere were, you know, we include
more people with more diverseopinions.
How do you deal with that andwork on that every single day?
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Well, again, I think our obligation is not to tell
people they have to do or don'thave to do anything when it
comes to the vaccine.
Um, we recognize that thedistrust in communities,
especially in black communities,um, is, is based.
In fact, this is not somethingthat is coming out of nowhere.
People remember historically,um, some of the, the, uh,
(44:06):
distrust and the issues andbeing used as Guinea pigs in the
past.
Um, you know, that is somethingthat is very top of mind for
people.
So you can't go in, in a waythat disrespects, that lived
experience.
Um, I think instead of saying,you know, why don't you trust
us?
We have to start from theacknowledgement that healthcare,
(44:26):
um, has in the past for somecommunities, um, Ben and a, an
industry that has causeddistrust that has caused the
community, not to have a senseof trust in what we're being
told.
And so if we start from thatplace that allows us to build
trust, to say, we understandhistorically why you may feel
(44:48):
this way, let us provideinformation.
I'm going to provide anopportunity for you to ask every
question.
There is no question that isconsidered irrelevant or silly.
If it presents a challenge or abarrier to you, then that's a
legitimate question that has tobe addressed.
And so we're going to createthose opportunities for you to
share what your concerns are.
(45:08):
We're going to address them asbest we can.
We're going to offer science andfacts and information.
We're going to offer our owntestimonials as to why it's
important for us and why peoplechose, uh, to get vaccinated.
And then at the end of the day,you will make the decision that
you make the decision that'sbest for you, but it will be an
informed decision.
You would have had all theinformation to help you come to
(45:31):
whatever that conclusionultimately is.
And so that's how we approachthe hesitancy factor.
I think similarly, when it comesto people who no matter what the
issue is, diversity inclusion,equity, access, they just don't
get it.
I think the reality is theirability to survive in this
climate is going to besignificantly jeopardized if
(45:54):
they don't get it.
Uh, again, this is a time ofgreat exposure for
organizations, right?
People are calling organizationsout.
People want to know what yourstance is, what your position
is, what you, um, stand up for,um, who you're supporting, who
you're representing.
Uh, and, and I find, I can'tthink of any organizations that
(46:15):
they credit think about thevarious industries that doesn't
have an investment in thisspace, because it ties directly
to their ability to survive, um,as an organization.
And so again, I think people arebecoming more savvy.
They're holding organizationsaccountable.
They want you to actually putsome resources, um, and, you
(46:35):
know, put your money where yourmouth is, or, or walk the walk.
Um, as opposed to just beingable to put out a statement and
reaction to something that hashappened.
So I think that measure ofaccountability is coming.
And I think organization wouldbe wise to get in front of that
and to start doing some of thiswork, um, proactively instead of
doing it in response to beingcalled out.
(46:58):
Because again, we live in a timeand place where social media and
information and missteps getspread and shared very rapidly.
So I would suggest mostorganizations do their due
diligence and put themselves inthe best position possible with
some genuine, authenticcommitment to this work.
Um, and by doing so again, Ithink it, it helps arm them
(47:22):
against the onslaught ofcriticism or people saying, you
know, what is it you're doing?
And then being ill prepared to acogent response to what it is
you're doing, what's the partyou're playing and this social
movement, what's the part you'replaying to increase equity and
increase opportunities.
How are you making acontribution?
(47:42):
And that has more to do withwhat are you doing?
Um, long-term what are you doingfor black history month?
You know, the time of looking atwhat an organization is doing
during a particular month orduring a particular time, um, is
long gone.
People want to know youridentity as an organization.
Again, what's your credo?
Who are you?
Why should we care?
(48:03):
Why should we support you?
Why should we stand by you?
Why should we work for you?
Why should we patronize you?
Um, why should we buy yourconsumer goods?
All of those are whatorganizations should be thinking
about when it comes to thiswork.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
So I have one last question, and you mentioned it
was black history month and,and, you know, you're absolutely
right.
Um, you've given us so many goodideas and things to think about
that transcend a month that are,should be built into the fabric
of who we are.
Um, I often have, um, uh, goalsand then I have aspirational
(48:42):
goals.
And then I have dreams.
Do you have any dreams about theway, you know, society could
work or should work, or, youknow, that you sort of sit, sit
there and go if only,
Speaker 4 (48:59):
Um, I do.
I do.
Right.
Um, I think my dream and my hopeis that we get to a point of
some shared humanity that we getto a point where, um, you,
Jonathan, you and I, peoplemight look at us and say, well,
what would the two of them havein common, right?
Um, you know, differentbackgrounds, different races,
(49:21):
different genders, et cetera.
And so the hope is through justsome share humanity.
If I find out about you and yourhopes and your dreams and those
aspirations that you talk about.
If I find out a little bit aboutyour journey and your
challenges, if I find out whereyou're going and what you want
in life, um, you want it tolive.
(49:41):
And then I'm able to share thatwith you.
I'm able to share about myconcerns about my son in college
and my 13 year old.
Who's been doing virtuallearning.
If I'm able to share with you,um, my fears, uh, for my husband
as a black man and hisexperiences.
And, and I'm able to share someof that, if I'm able to share my
challenges and how it hasn'talways been easy, being usually
(50:04):
the only woman of color in aleadership position within an
organization, if I'm able toshare how that felt and, you
know, share some of my successesand some of my fears that
there's some overlap that Ithink naturally comes from that
because you find is that people,um, oftentimes have the same
hopes they want, you know, lifelove happiness, right?
(50:27):
They want to have, um, to leavesomething to their kids.
They want to live a life ofcontribution.
And if I can see that in you,and you can see that in me, then
that causes us to have moreconnection than disconnect.
And it causes me to say, youknow what?
We don't have to look alike,sound alike, but there's some
shared humanity between us.
And if that's enough of aconnection to start, then I
(50:48):
think we can kind of build aswe, as we go.
I, I recall, um, years ago Iwas, I was going through an
airport and I saw they had ahuge sign on the wall that said,
if you want to eliminate racism,uh, travel.
And I thought about that, and itseemed rather simplistic, but I
think the heart of the messageis the following.
(51:09):
The more you get out, the moreyou expose yourself beyond your
small world, your small box thatyou exist in, the more you
immerse yourself in othercultures, um, you see how other
people live.
You, you get here and share withpeople from different
backgrounds, so harder.
It is for you to be someone whois Xclusive, who keeps people
(51:30):
out because so much of who youare is no longer you in
isolation.
It's not you out of context,it's you within this bigger
world.
And I think the more we can seeourselves as being part of this
bigger world, and we see thebigger world having a direct
impact on who we are and thequality of life that we want to
(51:50):
have, um, then the better we'llall be for it.
So I guess my that's a big wayof saying my hope is that we can
see some sense of sharedhumanity, um, in each other.
And I think if we are able to dothat role, be better for it.
What a great place to leave thisdiscussion.
Mecca Mitchell, thank you somuch for joining us on patterns
(52:12):
and paradigms.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Always welcome the opportunityto work with pattern and
continue to stay safe and bediligent out there.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Thank you for tuning in to patterns and paradigms the
pattern podcast.
For more information about thisepisode, visit our website
pattern for progress.org forwardslash podcast.
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