May 12, 2021 • 47 mins
The Bardavon 1869 Opera House, Inc. operates the oldest continuously operating theater in the state, one of the oldest in the country right here in the Hudson Valley, as well as the region’s premiere orchestra, the Hudson Valley Philharmonic, and presents in venues including the Mid-Hudson Civic Center and Kingston’s Ulster Performing Arts Center. The organization offers affordable, world-class arts education programs, music, dance, theater, live in HD broadcasts, and classic films for the diverse audiences of the Hudson Valley.
This week's episode features Chris Silva, Executive Director of the Bardavon 1869 Opera House in Poughkeepsie, exploring the challenges of small theaters during the pandemic and what the future holds.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are experiencing a paradigm shift, a fundamental
change in the way we usually dothings.
We are intentionally choosing tosee the silver lining
opportunity arises.
We can shine a light on thethings that weren't working well
(00:25):
on those things that weren'treally working at all, we can
regroup reevaluate andre-engineer it's time to explore
new patterns and paradigms thosethat inspire us to rise above
the chaos and explore how theconditions of today and take us
(00:47):
to a better tomorrow patternsand paradigms the pattern
podcast from Hudson Valleypattern for progress.
You're listening to season twoepisode 19, the future of the
arts and small theaters withyour host pattern, president and
CEO, Jonathan Dropkin.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hi everyone, and welcome to patterns and
paradigms.
We hope you are as inspired bythe three newly elected state
senators.
As we were for those who arefeeling a lack of optimism in
the future politics, we offerexhibit a and hope you feel a
bit better.
Please remember to subscribe toour podcast at Apple or wherever
(01:31):
you find your favorite podcasts.
And take a moment to share anepisode with a friend.
This week's bubble trend, thearts.
This one is complicated.
If there is one sector that willtake longer to come back, it is
the arts and in particular liveindoor events, such as the
(01:56):
theater or concerts, think aboutit.
They are based on hundreds, ifnot thousands of people being
inside of a venue and prettymuch sitting next to each other,
will everyone have gotten avaccine?
Will everyone still wear a mask?
The lobbies are not built in away that can accommodate large
(02:19):
crowds, let alone sociallydistance.
Once outdoors should be better,but for this summer, here's how
it works.
Tours for the rock and countryacts need to be assembled by
now.
And they have to be contractedwith the venues.
(02:40):
The venues have to say, well,how many people can we have?
And then the venues need to selltickets or the math simply
doesn't work.
Listen to our guests today formore on this.
So far, this is a trend withhopefully a bubble that will
burst and we will all get toenjoy, um, our favor rock act or
(03:04):
Broadway show.
Once again, I'm here with mypartner at pattern Joe checkup.
Hey Joe, what's your sense ofthe arts in the Hudson Valley
and their need to come back?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I think the arts play a critical role in the Hudson
Valley, whether it's a largevenue like Bethel woods, or if
it's small little independenttheaters like shadow land or the
paramount theater in Middletown,the Bart Yvonne you pack, they
all play a really importantrole, not just for tourism and
for the hospitality industry,but for local people who are
(03:42):
working in these venues.
It's not just the person on thestage, but it's the person
behind the curtain, the personselling the ticket, the person
cleaning up afterward.
They're their jobs.
They're not super high payingjobs.
You're not going to make amillion dollars doing it, but
it's important to the economyand it plays a role.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I think for years, you've been telling me about,
you know, how, when we think,what does a good main street
downtown need?
One of the anchor institutionshas always been well, do you
have a theater?
You know, what do you have todraw people downtown?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That's right.
You know, the theater is a, uh,it's the, it's the nucleus,
right?
It's it's, you know, there's,there's so many activities that
go on within the theater.
That's not just the show.
It's the, it's the energy, it'sthe vibe.
It's the, it's the lifeblood ofa main street.
Um, you can have cafes and youcan have restaurants and you can
(04:43):
have bars and breweries centeredin and around these places.
And they all pull together andreally, really create a life and
creativity on the main street.
And that that's the other aspectthat the arts do is it, it makes
people enthusiastic, um, to becreative and with, without that
(05:06):
creative process.
And without that ability to pullyour creative juices together
and act not only as anindependent person and
creativity, but as a group increativity, um, you know, we're,
we're not, we're not going to goanywhere fast.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know, there are those people that have always
supported the idea of STEM,which is science, technology,
engineering, and math.
Correct.
And then there is those peoplethat make Stan and add an a in
the middle for the arts.
And so it becomes steam.
(05:45):
And the belief has always beenthat the arts impact the way
that your creativity, um, isallowed to evolve for the other
four and that the need for thearts to come back is critical.
And in fact, pattern is going todo their part.
(06:06):
Um, this year we don't have ourfacility where we did our annual
fundraising dinner to go back toanymore.
It was an events location.
We used to have 500 people fromaround the region, join us
there.
It's been sold actually to anarts entity deduction group, um,
(06:27):
which is kind of ironic in thesense, but so we're taking our
annual fundraising effort on theroad and we're going to do seven
small events.
But one of the, the theme ofthose events is celebrating the
arts.
We're going to do our littleshare to try to help bring back
(06:47):
the arts in the Hudson Valley.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That'd be a great time.
So I would encourage everyone tocome.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, they, they just have to start checking our
website.
It'll be great.
Thanks, Joe.
Thank you.
Our guest today is Chris Silva.
Um, patterns and paradigm hasgotten to know Chris for over 20
years.
The ultimate showman for thatsun Valley, producer of
concerts, events, guestspeakers, and facilities, such
(07:19):
as the bar Davon andPoughkeepsie, or you pack in
Kingston.
Chris is the only limitation towhat Chris does in the arts is
his own mind's capacity to say,what else can we do?
I hope you'll enjoy this episodebecause Chris does bring up how
(07:43):
the pandemic gave him theopportunity to think about
programming involvement ofothers in that programming.
And it really is special from aspecial person.
We hope you enjoy the episode.
Hey, Chris, good to see youagain.
I mean our guests, our listenerscan't see you, but I can see you
(08:03):
a little bit here as we recordin zoom.
How are you fairing during thepandemic?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Hey, Jonathan, uh, uh, good to see you as well.
Uh, you know, fine.
I mean, you know, w we've beenhealthy, my family is all
healthy.
Um, uh, you know, we've beenable, as we'll talk about to
keep the, uh, the work aspect ofmy life pretty together and, uh,
you know, frankly, um, you know,I've made a career working
(08:30):
nights and weekends, and Ihaven't worked a night or a
weekend for over a year and Idon't it's okay.
I don't mind,
Speaker 2 (08:41):
You know, for the people that don't know, you were
talking about someone who spentdecades working nights and
weekends.
So when, when Chris says, Hey, Idon't mind for the past year,
this is a guy that works reallyhard.
So, um, so for our listeners,then why don't you explain just
(09:04):
what you do, I'm very familiar,but you know, the facilities you
manage and, and give, why don'tyou just give people a little
background?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, no happy to, yeah.
Since 1994, um, I've been theexecutive director of the opera
house in Poughkeepsie, New York,which is a 944 seat, uh,
gorgeous old theater built inthe 1869 oldest, continuously
operating theater in New York.
And we also, uh, own and managethe ulcer performing arts center
(09:36):
in Kingston, New York, which isa 1927 vintage theater seats,
1500 people.
And, um, and lastly we own, wedon't own them.
We manage them present theHudson Valley Philharmonic,
which is the region's oldestprofessional symphony orchestra,
uh, celebrated 60th year in2019.
(09:57):
We're hoping to get 61 or two inthere.
One of these days for guys we'vebeen stalled in the middle of 60
and 61.
But yeah, we, we do about ahundred events a year, um, uh,
bringing in about a hundredthousand people to our
communities.
And, um, including a lot ofchildren, we do a big education
(10:18):
program, which is 20,000 kidsevery year.
So we're very, uh, activeorganization in two cities.
And I work a lot of nights andweekends as a result of all that
activity.
I mean, a hundred shows, youknow, it was only 50 weeks.
So
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes.
So do the math.
I know.
And it's like it is.
And it's in a strange way.
I will also say that my life wasmore complicated and yet not
having to drive through ninecounties to do my job,
everything now done via zoom isactually been less wear and tear
(10:56):
for me, but for many otherpeople, you and I know they had
to go to work every day and thishas not been fun.
So no,
Speaker 3 (11:04):
No, no, no many people had to go to work every
day.
And, uh, you know, I can't even,you know, people in grocery
stores, for instance, you know,who are kind of like forgotten
because they're not, you know,they don't work in the health
industry.
I can't even, you know, it'sunbelievable what they've had to
do.
Um, but yeah, yeah, that's,that's my story.
(11:26):
And, um, you know, I've beenworking, it isn't like I stopped
work.
It's just, uh, I stopped doingwhat I usually do, you know,
which is put on a lot ofperformances.
So, um, so that's been strange.
We'll get to doing things.
I mean, we haven't been puttingon performances.
They just haven't been livebecause we can't do them live so
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Well.
No, you're, you're, you're oneof those theaters and we'll get
to that in a little bit.
It's funny you bring up the, uh,the person who you know, is in,
uh, you know, stocking food.
I've made Dale, who is the guyin my little supermarket where I
live in rock Hill and SullivanCA I've made them into kind of a
folk hero.
(12:08):
He doesn't even know it yet, butthe guy has not missed a day of
work.
Since this started, the guy'ssitting there going my job is to
make certain Jonathan that youhave food and, and how under
appreciated someone like thatwas plenty COVID and now you got
to see how important he was.
(12:30):
Of course, the healthcareworkers, of course, you know,
everyone else.
But so Chris, what was themoment when the pandemic started
for you?
You must have had things bookedevery week.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Oh my God.
It's I have a good story onMarch 5th, which as you may
remember, was seven days beforethe door slam shut.
We were in New York city with 50Hudson Valley Philharmonic
musicians stuffed into arecording studio that wasn't
built for 50 musicians.
(13:06):
We were arm-in-arm.
I mean, it was barely room wassix French performers.
We were rehearsing for fivehours in this environment, um,
uh, for a show the next night atthe beacon theater where we were
back backing Jane Birkin, uh,Charlotte Gainsborough and Iggy
pop of all people.
(13:27):
Um, and that, and all we do, youknow, it was a weird, it was a
really weird combination.
It was a great show, but it wasweird.
Um, you know, all we knew backthen back whack away before it
been closed was don't wash yourhands, right.
Um, you know, keep yourdistance, but wasn't, we hadn't
gotten into the words of, youknow, six foot distance.
(13:49):
And none of that had happened.
Social distancing wasn't even noexpression yet.
You know?
And then we did a show for 2,500people at the beacon theater and
, uh, loaded it out, you know,as well.
So here we are acting likeeverything is fine for 48 hours
in New York city.
We get back on the Monday andwe're talking about what's we
(14:13):
see happening and we go, Oh, Ithink it's going to be, I think
we'll be okay.
I think people are still doingshows.
And then, you know, 24 hourslater, I said to Steven, I think
we're going to have to close.
This is not sounding good.
And then on the, uh, like the11th, just before Cuomo
announced it, I started a pressrelease about closing and I, and
(14:35):
we had a show on the 13th, BritFloyd, a show, you know, a
touring show from Europe, um,who called us and said, what do
you mean you're not going to dothe show and it's fine in
Europe, everything's fine inEngland.
And I'm like, Oh, really justwait.
And, um, when you said,
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Oh, I'm so disappointed.
I, I, there, there, there, therein Kingston,
Speaker 3 (14:58):
What was bad was in Kingston.
Cause I think it was the daybefore.
And I said, I'm sorry, I, I justdon't see, this is not going to
happen.
And then sure enough, you know,by six o'clock that night Cuomo
closed it down.
So we had an inkling, but youknow, a week before we're jammed
in a teeny little room with 60people rehearsing for hours and
(15:19):
hours.
And you know, what also isironic about that?
Just down the hall, there wasanother rehearsal of the almond
brothers tribute that was goingto be a massive square garden,
jammed with musicians.
We knew a lot of them and threeof them got sick.
Three of them got fired and one
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Of them is one of them is Larry Campbell who, you
know, you
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Know, Larry Campbell from Woodstock.
Um, he said, I I'm sure I gotsick at that tribute because you
know, it, it happens.
But we were in the same buildingdown the hall, you know, it's so
weird.
And Chris would be nobody, youknow,
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You got to learn a little bit about this when I was
working at Bethel woods, butyou're booking for six months a
year.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Oh, easily over a year.
Over a year.
Yeah.
Well we're actually, right nowwe have shows booked for a year
from now because you know,obviously we had to move
everything, but, uh, no, we'dbook a year more in advance all
the time.
So it's been, it's been weird.
The only positive about it, if,you know, in terms of my
business is that we're all in ittogether.
(16:25):
We all know this is happening.
It isn't like I'm going to getsome agent on the phone.
He's going to be mad because Igot a shovel.
He knows he has to move theshow.
Everybody has to move the show.
So it was, it was easier than itwould have been if it was like,
just my decision, you know, itwas the world it's shut down.
So yeah, it was, it was a, itwas a lot of moments in the
(16:48):
midst of this.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Were you able to keep people employed?
Did you have to apply for stateor federal and H how did you,
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, no, we, we, we have 18 full-time people, um,
and, uh, three of us has haveremained full-time working
because we're going after allthose federal state corporate
foundation grants, um, and 15people have been furloughed, but
they're all working.
We're all paying, we're payingthem all one to three days a
(17:18):
week, depending on what they'redoing, maintaining their health
insurance, and because of thefederal support and in
particular, in the state, wellbetween unemployment and the
stimulus payments, everybody hasbeen kept whole through this
entire thing, you know, withsome blips along the way, God
(17:40):
knows, you know, the biggestblip, the orange blip that went
away finally, you know, clearedthe way for some clarity to
return.
And, um, you know, what, whatBiden just did in terms of
pushing, uh, allowingunemployment through labor day
is just a gift.
You know, I mean, we're, we're,we would be, we'd really be a
(18:01):
bat.
The, our employees would reallybe in bad shape.
Now, obviously I have over ahundred part-time employees and
unfortunately I wasn't able tohelp them.
Um, I was able to find somemoney for the Philharmonic
musicians, um, to about 30 grandto help cover their losses in
March.
Cause we had, you know, we'vehad to cancel their concerts so
(18:22):
close in, um, to try and help,you know, and also allow them to
maintain unemployment, you know,the payments were, were
carefully made.
And um, so, you know, honestly Ifeel that we've been very, very
fortunate.
I think it has a lot to do withthe fact that, you know, the
barred Yvonne, you pack thePhilharmonic, there much loved
institutions that have beenaround for, you know, part of
(18:46):
one's 150 years old.
Right.
But, um, you know, I think thatthat, that has a lot to do with
why for foundations, localfoundations, corporations, and
individuals, you know, ourmembership, we have like 2000
members.
Um, they continue to up there,you know, to pay their
membership dues, even thoughthere's no shows, you know,
(19:08):
they're not getting anyadvantage, you know, they're
just supporting us cause they,you know, believe in what we're
doing.
So that's been huge.
And I can't tell you the federalsupport, you know, those PPPs
and you know, all those acronymsthat we learned very quickly.
I mean, that's almost a milliondollars, you know, between all
the government, things that havebeen made avail and the save our
(19:30):
stages grant, which you know, isfamously, was famously launched
poorly.
Uh, about two weeks ago, threeweeks ago, it finally was
launched successfully.
This passed a week ago todayactually.
And we were ready, very readyfor that grant.
So we got ours in the firstthree hours of it opening.
So we have a good chance ofseeing a lot of money, you know,
(19:54):
relatively speaking.
Um, you know, if it holds out,you know, if there's still money
left by the time our turn comesup, but I think there will be.
So those things have beencritical.
Totally critical.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
So, so back up a bit, when you say the save our stages
, um, I'm not familiar and maybesome of my listeners, what, what
happened because a lot of therollout during this whole thing
was there's no playbook.
There's nothing that people use.
So what happened with save ourstages?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah.
We'll save our stages wascreated by, um, I can't remember
where that, I think these in theMidwest like Cleveland, this guy
moose is his nickname, um, whichis an excellent name for
somebody that's trying to findmoney.
Um, he created, uh, he created anonprofit organization called
(20:47):
Neeva national independent venueassociation.
Um, we've got about 3000 members, um, theaters, just like the
and new pack across the countrywho were facing disaster as a
result of this, you know, notevery theater is as fortunate as
the Bard of honor, you pack tohave this great history and et
cetera, et cetera.
(21:07):
You know, some of them don'thave that, you know, or have
whatever or maybe they're neweror whatever it is.
Um, so he created thisorganization and hired lobbyists
and man, they worked the federalgovernment and they got, um,
what's her well besides, um,Chuck Schumer who was on board
(21:27):
from the get-go Brandy, JillBrown.
I'm sure.
I, I, she wasn't really directlyinvolved, but, uh, Amy Klobuchar
was, and she, she was very offcause he thought it was a
national thing.
She was very into it.
Anyway, they brought it, uh,they, they made it a part of the
1.9 trillion.
(21:48):
Um, it's a$15 billion packagefor venues.
Now.
It expanded into museums, uh,comedy clubs, uh, movies,
theaters, as well as venues andpromoters and booking agents,
even of all things even can goto this thing.
So it it's a big, big attempt,you know, honestly, since the
(22:11):
WPA of FDR, there has beennothing like this ever, ever for
arts organizations andindividuals in America, not even
close.
And it, and it's it, it bodeswell.
I mean, if the, if Congress orat least most of Congress can,
can see their way that 15billion it's worth 15 billion to
(22:32):
keep the, you know, performingarts venues in America open,
that's good.
That's a good acknowledgement,you know, to make.
So, um, so anyway, they, theycreated this grant program
through this SBA.
Um, now the SBA, uh, you know,the small business association
is not set up to give grants toarts organizations at all.
(22:54):
You know, they don't say don'tknow anything about horse
organizations.
So getting the, um, guidelineswritten and the questions, you
know, this again was part ofNeeva, moose, Neva, and us.
We were all part of it too, toget to, to give, send questions
to the SBA about questioning howtheir guidelines are being
(23:16):
written, because they have tounderstand how we operate, you
know, and it was, it wasfascinating, but you know, I
have to say it all worked out or, I mean, nobody's gotten a
nickel yet, but what the grantapplication that Emory just went
through, it took her about threehours.
Um, she said it was so muchbetter than what she anticipated
it being.
(23:37):
Uh, and we had to download and Ishould say upload so much
documentation, which makessense.
I mean, the SBA wants to see thedollars and cents want to see
the contracts.
They want you to prove that youdo what you do, which is fine
with me because I don't wantthat money going to fraud to
fraudsters.
You know, I want it to go to aperforming arts center.
So, so it it's, so that's justpart of it.
(23:59):
And they also created a$45billion, uh, grant, uh, uh,
application for restaurantsacross the country, which I
think will disappear fastbecause there's a lot more
restaurants and there aretheaters.
And, um, so these little, notlittle, these large grants have
really been it's, it's going tosave us.
(24:20):
It really literally is going tosave us.
And also more importantly, putus in a position when we finally
reopened that's stronger than wewere when we closed, which is
great because we all have torecover from this, you know, and
it's, it's weird, it's it'sdisorienting, but we're focusing
(24:41):
on the future in an optimisticway.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
All right.
So, so you had your weekends andevenings back a little bit.
Did it give you any time toreflect a little bit about the,
the future of programming, thefuture of theaters, you know,
and, and, and, you know, for ourlisteners, let, I, I just can't
say enough good things about thebar Davon and you pack and how
(25:06):
they are.
They are anchor institutions forthe communities in Kingston and
Poughkeepsie, but press, I mean,has this given you an
opportunity to say, Hey, maybewe should do something a little
differently?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, you know, it's funny, I mean, or I should say
it's odd.
You may know this, uh, RandyFleischer who was the conductor
of the Hudson ValleyPhilharmonic for 28 years, um,
died very suddenly.
And hor was horrible here forall, you know, rural crushed by
it, uh, last August of 2020.
(25:43):
And it was not COVID related.
He had a, uh, uh, undiagnosedheart attack.
I mean, it just, boom, he wasdead in a minute.
And, um, and he was loved, Imean, 28 years, he was the
conductor.
So, so that was a shock and itreally made us take a deep
breath and a step back, forinstance, how do you proceed?
(26:03):
You have to replace theconductor, but generally
speaking, you replace aconductor by, um, you know,
going through a long process,including a lot of in person
beats and stuff with potentialand, you know, national search.
And we just were not prepared todo that, especially all on zoom
was only three full-time people.
So we met with the orchestra anddecided to hire five, uh, guest
(26:27):
conductors and our focus withthose guests conductors that
there are, would that day beeither women or people of color,
except for one guy who's amember of the orchestra who is
going to conduct the opening, uh, concert, the principal of, uh,
uh, percussionist.
But he's also a conductor in NewYork city and a great guy
(26:50):
because the first concert it'sgoing to really reflect on the
last year and on Randy's deathand on COVID I on know black
lives matter on everything thatwe can jam into this opening
concert.
And we wanted to have a memberof that orchestra conduct that
concert so that it was all justin the family, so to speak.
But the other four, uh, wecurrently, we have a black man,
(27:13):
a black woman, an Asian woman,and a white woman set to go to
conduct these concerts.
Now that's the tip of theiceberg, the 10 or 11 soloists
for whether they're singers orviolin players or cellos or
whatever they're doing.
They're also people of color orwomen.
All of our programming is veryfocused on women.
(27:35):
Composers works that deal withsocially relevant themes, et
cetera, and that, and we weregoing in that direction or with
Randy at all times.
And we were doing a lot of very,uh, um, exciting programming,
but now we just feel such anurgency.
This is the one part of ourbusiness that we can kind of
(27:56):
control.
You know, we, we decide on therepertory, you know, it doesn't
just come in the door.
So it's been, so it's exciting.
And, and it's, you know, it'skind of risky, but not really
completely.
We're still going to give theaudience Beethoven and Mozart
and those people, but they'regoing to see a lot of new faces
of different hues than they'reused to.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
(28:17):
And we're also going to do, youknow, we do that anyway with our
programming because it's thenature of the beast.
You know, I mean, artists arecome from everywhere.
Um, but we are, we are, we arefocusing on that, Jonathan, um,
on trying to be as relevant aswe can be with everything we do.
And you can't, you know, you'renot going to do that with Brit
(28:38):
Floyd, you know, the pink Floydlight show, rock band.
It's just going to be fun.
Okay, fine.
That's okay.
I can't figure out how to makethat socially relevant, but, um,
uh, like for instance, we're,we're, we're looking to bring
in, like, we're bringing prettysure we've got Patty Smith's
coming now and, and doing a synccall.
(28:59):
She calls words in music andwe've encouraged him let her
speak from now.
She doesn't have to read a book.
She wrote two years ago.
She can talk about what'shappening right now.
It'd be fine with us.
Uh, David Sedaris is going to becoming again in the fall.
He always talks about what'shappening right now.
So, you know, we're, we'rehoping to have, you know, to be
(29:20):
more of a focal point for thecommunity to, to get, you know,
besides the uplift of beautifulmusic and rock and roll or
whatever you like, you know,whatever, the kind of thing,
dance, whatever it is, film, ifwe can add some, you know,
coherent, socially relevantprogramming, we'll, we will,
(29:42):
that's our goal and that's,what's changed.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's pretty impressive.
And that's pretty incredible theway that you've pivoted to
incorporate the, the moment intime that we're in.
Um, what will all the facilitiesopen or do you still, I mean, so
let, let's talk about the twoprinciple ones.
So there's you packing Kingston?
(30:05):
Are you still under seventy-fivepercent or 50% for a while, and
then yeah.
How, how is this?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, I actually, I think Cuomo just today, you
know, he just said everything'sopen fully except theaters or
like, yeah.
Um, but, but I think I, I didn'tread the fine print.
Uh, I think he went up to 33% orsomething today, you know,
except for, I dunno, it doesn'tmatter.
(30:34):
He hasn't, we have to be fullthat little attached to your
question.
We have to open it a hundredpercent because, um, for a lot
of reasons, but not the least ofwhich being that I can't pay the
artist's fees unless I can sellenough tickets, not to endure
all the other expenses that comewith, um, would putting on a
show, you know, if an artistcosts$50,000 and you can only
(30:55):
sell 500 tickets, you know, whatare you going to do?
You know, you can't charge$150for every ticket.
So, you know, it's so, so we'reproceeding as though both venues
will open fully in August.
Um, we're booking accordingly.
We have a bunch of shows bookedAugust, September, October,
right into next year.
(31:15):
Um, and we're actively doingothers, you know, including the
Philharmonic opening the end ofSeptember.
Again, the Philharmonic isanother, you know, we have to be
able to fit 50 or 60 musicianson the stage.
So if we can't, aren't allowedto do that.
We can't do a concert.
So, you know, we're, so we'rejust acting what I've been
seeing.
And we've all been seeing sinceJanuary or January 21st let's
(31:40):
say is, um, is a rapid, uh, youknow, an, uh, a rapid increase
in people getting vaccinated,um, in, in restrictions being
pulled back.
I mean, there's a real, realpush to reopen and, you know,
hopefully enough people will getvaccinated.
I hate seeing the time storytoday that we doubt will hit her
(32:05):
community.
I'm like, why do you even haveto say that?
Why can't you just be a littlemore positive?
You know?
Um, so, you know, we're going tohave to live with this forever.
I'm like, okay, thank you forruining my day.
Um, so, you know, look, ifeverybody has to wear a mask,
you know, until they sit orwhatever the heck the deal is,
we'll do it, but we can't reallyopen halfway.
(32:30):
It's just, it's not possible.
And so if they push us, if thatdoesn't happen, you know, and
I'm not speaking alone, I I'vetalked to colleagues up and down
the East coast every week, wehave a meeting, uh, especially
the guys up North who doBroadway, national tours of
Broadway.
They've been told that, um,Hamilton and lion King will be
(32:52):
on the road as of September,because if necessary, those
shows can work to reduce housebecause they're paid for 15
times over, they've already madetheir money.
So they're willing, they'rewilling to lose a couple of
bucks to get on the road.
Um, but all the shows onBroadway, they can't do that.
(33:13):
I mean, the expense is way toomuch.
So, so it's interesting, youknow, there's also look at the
South of our country.
If you're, you know, if you wantto go to Florida or Texas, you
probably can fly, play a fullhouse.
You know, I mean, they've been,they've been pretty much 50%
open since December.
We have a colleague in Florida,um, who who's been running his
(33:37):
1800 seat theater with 900people.
And I'm like, wow, that's justseems terrifying to me.
But, um, you know, at, beforevaccinations, this was before
vaccinations even hit, you know,you know, I, you know, Florida
is one of those States that sayslike, I, yeah, Texas, you know,
what are you people thinking?
(33:57):
Um, anyway, so yeah, we have toopen fully and we're going to
open both of them and hopefullyit'll be fine.
All right.
So let, let's broaden thediscussion a bit about, um,
because I think you've alludedto it several times and, uh, you
know, I I'll talk a little bitlater at the conclusion of this,
about what pattern's doing thisyear, um, to try to help the
(34:21):
arts out.
But, um, what I would like tosay since I've known you for
years, that the arts are peopleunderestimate the importance of
(34:41):
the arts to children, to adults,to communities, and the presence
of you pack the bar, Davon theHudson Valley Philharmonic, but
I'd rather hear it from you.
How important are the arts
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Pretty,
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Pretty, pretty darn important, but they're, well,
you know, just the, Theeconomics, I mean, we spent off
about 11 on top of buying aticket and it's, and it's, uh,
(35:26):
that, so, so just the economicbenefit alone is huge.
And, you know, we feel everysingle restaurant in town
whenever we have a show, I mean,that's just wonderful, but our
education are again, about 20years ago, we made a really
concerted effort to make surethat our program for kids we're
the most sophisticated, uh,intelligent that they never
(35:49):
spoke down to children, but theyonly spoke up to them.
And, and, and so those programshave been super important to
teachers in terms of how theycan relate to their children.
For instance, we just did asugar skull that we just did
this, uh, stream, uh, causethat's all we can do.
Now.
I have a show called sugar'scall, which celebrates the day
(36:09):
of the dead Mexico's day of thedead.
We had 4,000 kids watch thisthing and the teachers were
writing us letters of divertwere practically crying.
They were so happy that therewas finally some programming for
their Hispanic classworkclassmates.
So that the kids who, who speakSpanish as a first language,
(36:29):
actually had a program that wasabout them, you know, that spoke
of their traditions and their,you know, heritage, et cetera.
And we do that kind of thing alot.
And that's kind of vital to, youknow, there's another show that
we put out called step Africa,which is about stepping, which
is a traditionalAfrican-American dance form
(36:49):
created out of, um, uh,fraternities and sororities and
clubs and black and all blackcolleges, um, you know, like a
long time ago.
So that had an immediate impacton, on African-American
audiences, uh, kids in school,stuff like that is, um, you
know, you can't, you can'treplace it with something else.
I mean, it's gotta be aperforming artist, but it's
(37:11):
going to give you thatexperience.
And, um, so we're very proud ofit, you know, and that's, and
that's kind of encapsulates the,the importance besides just the
spiritual aspect of it that, youknow, when you go to hear your
favorite artist, whether that's,you know, Tony Bennett or Carlos
Santana, you're going to get ahuge, huge, spiritual uplift
(37:36):
from having that experience.
And that's the advantage of myjob really is that I get to have
those experiences every week tohave some great artists do an
incredible performance that justmoves you in different ways for
different reasons.
You know?
So, um, that's, that's really
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Chris, wasn't it in the beginning of the pandemic
that in Italy that was so hardhit that there were people
opening up their windows andsinging like opera outside in
the street just to boost morale.
I,
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It was beautiful.
It was beautiful.
You've made you think likeeverybody in Italy knows opera.
Wow.
And they're singing in achampion.
No, I know it's hilarious.
Well, you know, that happened ina city in New York city too.
Um, cause that wonderfulBroadway performer, um, I can't
remember his name now.
Uh, uh, he lived like, uh, onthe same block as one of the
(38:39):
hospitals.
So when workers would leave, hebusted his window open and sing,
you know, acapella, um, you'llnever walk alone, you know,
that's awesome, you know, orclimb every mountain or
whatever.
And, you know, just as he didevery night.
And as a matter of fact, we'replaying a, um, one of the pieces
(38:59):
of the orchestra is going to bedoing this season is called
seven o'clock shout, which isall about, you know, opening the
doors and windows for theworkers, the essential workers
going home and having acommunity, give shout outs, bang
their pots and pans together.
And, you know, yeah.
And that's one of the beautifulthings that happened, you know,
obviously during this wholenightmare is, you know,
(39:23):
humanity.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Well, I always thought it was interesting that,
you know, there were people thatbelieved in STEM education,
which is science, technology,education, math, I think, or
engineering and math.
And then there are people likeme and Leonardo DaVinci who are
actually steam guys where youinsert the a for arts, right?
(39:50):
Because it just causes the mindto think very, very differently
about science and technology andeverything.
There's something about thepresence of the arts, which you
have been so, so relevant, soimportant in the Hudson Valley
in terms of ensuring that thereis that component.
(40:13):
And I think that's part ofbringing us back is your time.
And hopefully the money you weredescribing enables you to do
this.
Um, if you ha you have thischance to, you know, we don't
want to, I don't want to go backto the way it was.
I want to think about the way itcould be.
And I think, you know, the artsand, and let's interpret that
(40:38):
very broadly so that it could bepainting.
It could be music.
It could be, uh, the re thespoken word as a form of art.
Um, I think there's this amazingopportunity for us to think
differently about the arts and,um, you know, it, it, it, I'm,
(41:01):
I'm glad you cleared this up forme, because I had heard that the
lion King wicked Hamilton, we'regoing to be able to open, but
the point is that they'd beenpaid for many times over, I
think what you said earlier, butthat newer productions, how, how
did they do this?
I mean, whether it's a newmusician or,
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You know, they have to, you know, it was like the
metropolitan opera, you know,how do you get that gigantic
machine?
I mean, they have 150 people onthe stage, you know, together,
uh, you know, the football fieldsize stage there.
Right.
So, um, but yeah, I mean, allthe unions in New York city are
trying to figure this out, youknow, from the actors to the
(41:45):
stage, hands to the musicians,they're all trying to figure it
out.
The bottom line is vaccinationis key of course, first, uh, I'm
sure that will be a given interms of all performers period,
but you're not gonna be able todo that necessarily with the
audience.
So, you know, showing, uh,showing a pass at the door that
you've been vaccinated, Isuppose, could be a way that's
(42:07):
the slowest possible way to getpeople animals into theater is
to make them stop show me thisthing.
That's got print this small onit, but at any rate, um, and I
know New York state has createdan app.
Uh, that's could hopefullyexpedite that.
And you, you know, Ticketmasterwill probably come up with some
app for, you know, enter ifyou're vaccinated, you know, or
(42:28):
something.
I have no idea.
Um, yeah, I mean, I don't, youknow, I don't know how Broadway
is, is a really hard, you know,Broadway, the worst, the hardest
part.
I mean, look at those lobbiesBroadway, there is no lobby.
It's like a past, you know, andso what do you do during an
admission?
You know, everybody stands upand goes to a bar that's Cheney,
(42:52):
you know, I mean, it's like, so,uh, you know, it's almost as
though everybody's going to haveto sort of take their chances.
I mean, if we open fully andyou're vaccinated, then you
could feel some more secure, butif you're not vaccinated, why
would you go anywhere?
(43:12):
Why would you, why would you gointo a crowded lobby?
It just makes no sense, but youknow, what can we do
Speaker 2 (43:18):
For those listening that was Chris silvers, uh, uh,
plead with people to go getvaccinated, which we all should
do.
Um, Chris you've over the years,you have taught me a lot about
like the touring acts like livenation, you know, so it's a
(43:41):
venue has to rely, it may haveits own idea of who it wants,
but if you're relying on livenation, which controls so many
of the touring acts, then don't,they have to first back up and
go, who's even willing to go outon tour.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely, who's goingto get on the bus, you know,
with 20 other guys, you know, uh, I mean, like I said, you know,
you don't see Bob Dylanannouncing any dates.
I mean, you know, and he is one,he's a road warrior.
I mean, he does a hundred showsa year.
And when he turns 80 in twoweeks, I think, and, um, and
(44:22):
he's going to go out again.
So it would really duct Jonathanwould Bob Dylan announces dates,
then probably things arehappening again.
But yeah, I mean, Bethel woodstotally is a live nation venue.
And so it's back up in Saratoga.
So they completely are bookedfor the most part.
I mean, I think Bethel does someof their own shows, but, um, by,
by live nation, we are not, Imean, we are not controlled by
(44:46):
any, any major industry.
All the, you know, we make ourown choices.
We have book shows with livenation and with Bowery presents
and with AEG, with all the bigcompanies that are out there,
but that's not, we don't have todepend on that, but you're so
right.
Um, you know, the beach boys,how are they going to all get
together?
They don't want you to old guys.
They can all get together in thebus.
(45:08):
You know?
I mean, all those acts young actdoesn't even really matter who
it is.
It's like, you have to, youknow, it's not even just getting
in the bus, you have to get out,go to a hotel that you've never
been in.
Hope that it's clean, you know,go, go to the venue, hope that
there's food.
That's good.
And that, you know, hope, hope,hope.
I mean, before it it's alwayshard.
(45:30):
The touring is one of thehardest things.
Period.
Some people romanticize it like,Oh, it's so romantic.
It's not romantic.
It's, it's hard, hard work goingto a different town in a boss.
You know?
I mean, some artists having alittle better, a little more
luxurious, but it's still agrind.
You know, it's still gettinginto a new space almost every
(45:52):
day, going through this routine,staying up late, eating food
that you don't know where itcame from, et cetera, et cetera,
you know, and that's why wetreat our, or try to treat ours
like absolute gold so that, youknow, I we've had artists take
pictures of our hospitality tosay, send us to the next venue.
This is what we want it to looklike.
You know, stuff like that.
(46:14):
We really bend over backwards.
Cause we really do know how hardit is and you want them to be
happy.
You know, when they're in yourvenue, you don't want them to be
off.
You know, it's just, thesepeople treat me great.
So, well, yeah, it's hard.
Thanks for spending some timewith us.
I know that half of the entireHudson Valley, we do hope you're
100% back at 100% open, um, thearts, um, all that you do and
(46:42):
all your facilities and thinkingabout it contributes so much to
why people want to live andvisit the Hudson Valley.
So thanks again, Chris.
You're very welcome.
You're very welcome.
Take care.
Thank you for tuning intopatterns and paradigms the
pattern podcast.
For more information about thisepisode, visit our website
(47:05):
pattern for progress.org/podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
[inaudible].
We are experiencing a paradigm shift, a fundamental
change in the way we usually dothings.
We are intentionally choosing tosee the silver lining
opportunity arises.
We can shine a light on thethings that weren't working well
(00:25):
on those things that weren'treally working at all, we can
regroup reevaluate andre-engineer it's time to explore
new patterns and paradigms thosethat inspire us to rise above
the chaos and explore how theconditions of today and take us
(00:47):
to a better tomorrow patternsand paradigms the pattern
podcast from Hudson Valleypattern for progress.
You're listening to season twoepisode 19, the future of the
arts and small theaters withyour host pattern, president and
CEO, Jonathan Dropkin.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hi everyone, and welcome to patterns and
paradigms.
We hope you are as inspired bythe three newly elected state
senators.
As we were for those who arefeeling a lack of optimism in
the future politics, we offerexhibit a and hope you feel a
bit better.
Please remember to subscribe toour podcast at Apple or wherever
(01:31):
you find your favorite podcasts.
And take a moment to share anepisode with a friend.
This week's bubble trend, thearts.
This one is complicated.
If there is one sector that willtake longer to come back, it is
the arts and in particular liveindoor events, such as the
(01:56):
theater or concerts, think aboutit.
They are based on hundreds, ifnot thousands of people being
inside of a venue and prettymuch sitting next to each other,
will everyone have gotten avaccine?
Will everyone still wear a mask?
The lobbies are not built in away that can accommodate large
(02:19):
crowds, let alone sociallydistance.
Once outdoors should be better,but for this summer, here's how
it works.
Tours for the rock and countryacts need to be assembled by
now.
And they have to be contractedwith the venues.
(02:40):
The venues have to say, well,how many people can we have?
And then the venues need to selltickets or the math simply
doesn't work.
Listen to our guests today formore on this.
So far, this is a trend withhopefully a bubble that will
burst and we will all get toenjoy, um, our favor rock act or
(03:04):
Broadway show.
Once again, I'm here with mypartner at pattern Joe checkup.
Hey Joe, what's your sense ofthe arts in the Hudson Valley
and their need to come back?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I think the arts play a critical role in the Hudson
Valley, whether it's a largevenue like Bethel woods, or if
it's small little independenttheaters like shadow land or the
paramount theater in Middletown,the Bart Yvonne you pack, they
all play a really importantrole, not just for tourism and
for the hospitality industry,but for local people who are
(03:42):
working in these venues.
It's not just the person on thestage, but it's the person
behind the curtain, the personselling the ticket, the person
cleaning up afterward.
They're their jobs.
They're not super high payingjobs.
You're not going to make amillion dollars doing it, but
it's important to the economyand it plays a role.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I think for years, you've been telling me about,
you know, how, when we think,what does a good main street
downtown need?
One of the anchor institutionshas always been well, do you
have a theater?
You know, what do you have todraw people downtown?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That's right.
You know, the theater is a, uh,it's the, it's the nucleus,
right?
It's it's, you know, there's,there's so many activities that
go on within the theater.
That's not just the show.
It's the, it's the energy, it'sthe vibe.
It's the, it's the lifeblood ofa main street.
Um, you can have cafes and youcan have restaurants and you can
(04:43):
have bars and breweries centeredin and around these places.
And they all pull together andreally, really create a life and
creativity on the main street.
And that that's the other aspectthat the arts do is it, it makes
people enthusiastic, um, to becreative and with, without that
(05:06):
creative process.
And without that ability to pullyour creative juices together
and act not only as anindependent person and
creativity, but as a group increativity, um, you know, we're,
we're not, we're not going to goanywhere fast.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know, there are those people that have always
supported the idea of STEM,which is science, technology,
engineering, and math.
Correct.
And then there is those peoplethat make Stan and add an a in
the middle for the arts.
And so it becomes steam.
(05:45):
And the belief has always beenthat the arts impact the way
that your creativity, um, isallowed to evolve for the other
four and that the need for thearts to come back is critical.
And in fact, pattern is going todo their part.
(06:06):
Um, this year we don't have ourfacility where we did our annual
fundraising dinner to go back toanymore.
It was an events location.
We used to have 500 people fromaround the region, join us
there.
It's been sold actually to anarts entity deduction group, um,
(06:27):
which is kind of ironic in thesense, but so we're taking our
annual fundraising effort on theroad and we're going to do seven
small events.
But one of the, the theme ofthose events is celebrating the
arts.
We're going to do our littleshare to try to help bring back
(06:47):
the arts in the Hudson Valley.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That'd be a great time.
So I would encourage everyone tocome.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, they, they just have to start checking our
website.
It'll be great.
Thanks, Joe.
Thank you.
Our guest today is Chris Silva.
Um, patterns and paradigm hasgotten to know Chris for over 20
years.
The ultimate showman for thatsun Valley, producer of
concerts, events, guestspeakers, and facilities, such
(07:19):
as the bar Davon andPoughkeepsie, or you pack in
Kingston.
Chris is the only limitation towhat Chris does in the arts is
his own mind's capacity to say,what else can we do?
I hope you'll enjoy this episodebecause Chris does bring up how
(07:43):
the pandemic gave him theopportunity to think about
programming involvement ofothers in that programming.
And it really is special from aspecial person.
We hope you enjoy the episode.
Hey, Chris, good to see youagain.
I mean our guests, our listenerscan't see you, but I can see you
(08:03):
a little bit here as we recordin zoom.
How are you fairing during thepandemic?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Hey, Jonathan, uh, uh, good to see you as well.
Uh, you know, fine.
I mean, you know, w we've beenhealthy, my family is all
healthy.
Um, uh, you know, we've beenable, as we'll talk about to
keep the, uh, the work aspect ofmy life pretty together and, uh,
you know, frankly, um, you know,I've made a career working
(08:30):
nights and weekends, and Ihaven't worked a night or a
weekend for over a year and Idon't it's okay.
I don't mind,
Speaker 2 (08:41):
You know, for the people that don't know, you were
talking about someone who spentdecades working nights and
weekends.
So when, when Chris says, Hey, Idon't mind for the past year,
this is a guy that works reallyhard.
So, um, so for our listeners,then why don't you explain just
(09:04):
what you do, I'm very familiar,but you know, the facilities you
manage and, and give, why don'tyou just give people a little
background?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, no happy to, yeah.
Since 1994, um, I've been theexecutive director of the opera
house in Poughkeepsie, New York,which is a 944 seat, uh,
gorgeous old theater built inthe 1869 oldest, continuously
operating theater in New York.
And we also, uh, own and managethe ulcer performing arts center
(09:36):
in Kingston, New York, which isa 1927 vintage theater seats,
1500 people.
And, um, and lastly we own, wedon't own them.
We manage them present theHudson Valley Philharmonic,
which is the region's oldestprofessional symphony orchestra,
uh, celebrated 60th year in2019.
(09:57):
We're hoping to get 61 or two inthere.
One of these days for guys we'vebeen stalled in the middle of 60
and 61.
But yeah, we, we do about ahundred events a year, um, uh,
bringing in about a hundredthousand people to our
communities.
And, um, including a lot ofchildren, we do a big education
(10:18):
program, which is 20,000 kidsevery year.
So we're very, uh, activeorganization in two cities.
And I work a lot of nights andweekends as a result of all that
activity.
I mean, a hundred shows, youknow, it was only 50 weeks.
So
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes.
So do the math.
I know.
And it's like it is.
And it's in a strange way.
I will also say that my life wasmore complicated and yet not
having to drive through ninecounties to do my job,
everything now done via zoom isactually been less wear and tear
(10:56):
for me, but for many otherpeople, you and I know they had
to go to work every day and thishas not been fun.
So no,
Speaker 3 (11:04):
No, no, no many people had to go to work every
day.
And, uh, you know, I can't even,you know, people in grocery
stores, for instance, you know,who are kind of like forgotten
because they're not, you know,they don't work in the health
industry.
I can't even, you know, it'sunbelievable what they've had to
do.
Um, but yeah, yeah, that's,that's my story.
(11:26):
And, um, you know, I've beenworking, it isn't like I stopped
work.
It's just, uh, I stopped doingwhat I usually do, you know,
which is put on a lot ofperformances.
So, um, so that's been strange.
We'll get to doing things.
I mean, we haven't been puttingon performances.
They just haven't been livebecause we can't do them live so
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Well.
No, you're, you're, you're oneof those theaters and we'll get
to that in a little bit.
It's funny you bring up the, uh,the person who you know, is in,
uh, you know, stocking food.
I've made Dale, who is the guyin my little supermarket where I
live in rock Hill and SullivanCA I've made them into kind of a
folk hero.
(12:08):
He doesn't even know it yet, butthe guy has not missed a day of
work.
Since this started, the guy'ssitting there going my job is to
make certain Jonathan that youhave food and, and how under
appreciated someone like thatwas plenty COVID and now you got
to see how important he was.
(12:30):
Of course, the healthcareworkers, of course, you know,
everyone else.
But so Chris, what was themoment when the pandemic started
for you?
You must have had things bookedevery week.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Oh my God.
It's I have a good story onMarch 5th, which as you may
remember, was seven days beforethe door slam shut.
We were in New York city with 50Hudson Valley Philharmonic
musicians stuffed into arecording studio that wasn't
built for 50 musicians.
(13:06):
We were arm-in-arm.
I mean, it was barely room wassix French performers.
We were rehearsing for fivehours in this environment, um,
uh, for a show the next night atthe beacon theater where we were
back backing Jane Birkin, uh,Charlotte Gainsborough and Iggy
pop of all people.
(13:27):
Um, and that, and all we do, youknow, it was a weird, it was a
really weird combination.
It was a great show, but it wasweird.
Um, you know, all we knew backthen back whack away before it
been closed was don't wash yourhands, right.
Um, you know, keep yourdistance, but wasn't, we hadn't
gotten into the words of, youknow, six foot distance.
(13:49):
And none of that had happened.
Social distancing wasn't even noexpression yet.
You know?
And then we did a show for 2,500people at the beacon theater and
, uh, loaded it out, you know,as well.
So here we are acting likeeverything is fine for 48 hours
in New York city.
We get back on the Monday andwe're talking about what's we
(14:13):
see happening and we go, Oh, Ithink it's going to be, I think
we'll be okay.
I think people are still doingshows.
And then, you know, 24 hourslater, I said to Steven, I think
we're going to have to close.
This is not sounding good.
And then on the, uh, like the11th, just before Cuomo
announced it, I started a pressrelease about closing and I, and
(14:35):
we had a show on the 13th, BritFloyd, a show, you know, a
touring show from Europe, um,who called us and said, what do
you mean you're not going to dothe show and it's fine in
Europe, everything's fine inEngland.
And I'm like, Oh, really justwait.
And, um, when you said,
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Oh, I'm so disappointed.
I, I, there, there, there, therein Kingston,
Speaker 3 (14:58):
What was bad was in Kingston.
Cause I think it was the daybefore.
And I said, I'm sorry, I, I justdon't see, this is not going to
happen.
And then sure enough, you know,by six o'clock that night Cuomo
closed it down.
So we had an inkling, but youknow, a week before we're jammed
in a teeny little room with 60people rehearsing for hours and
(15:19):
hours.
And you know, what also isironic about that?
Just down the hall, there wasanother rehearsal of the almond
brothers tribute that was goingto be a massive square garden,
jammed with musicians.
We knew a lot of them and threeof them got sick.
Three of them got fired and one
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Of them is one of them is Larry Campbell who, you
know, you
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Know, Larry Campbell from Woodstock.
Um, he said, I I'm sure I gotsick at that tribute because you
know, it, it happens.
But we were in the same buildingdown the hall, you know, it's so
weird.
And Chris would be nobody, youknow,
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You got to learn a little bit about this when I was
working at Bethel woods, butyou're booking for six months a
year.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Oh, easily over a year.
Over a year.
Yeah.
Well we're actually, right nowwe have shows booked for a year
from now because you know,obviously we had to move
everything, but, uh, no, we'dbook a year more in advance all
the time.
So it's been, it's been weird.
The only positive about it, if,you know, in terms of my
business is that we're all in ittogether.
(16:25):
We all know this is happening.
It isn't like I'm going to getsome agent on the phone.
He's going to be mad because Igot a shovel.
He knows he has to move theshow.
Everybody has to move the show.
So it was, it was easier than itwould have been if it was like,
just my decision, you know, itwas the world it's shut down.
So yeah, it was, it was a, itwas a lot of moments in the
(16:48):
midst of this.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Were you able to keep people employed?
Did you have to apply for stateor federal and H how did you,
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, no, we, we, we have 18 full-time people, um,
and, uh, three of us has haveremained full-time working
because we're going after allthose federal state corporate
foundation grants, um, and 15people have been furloughed, but
they're all working.
We're all paying, we're payingthem all one to three days a
(17:18):
week, depending on what they'redoing, maintaining their health
insurance, and because of thefederal support and in
particular, in the state, wellbetween unemployment and the
stimulus payments, everybody hasbeen kept whole through this
entire thing, you know, withsome blips along the way, God
(17:40):
knows, you know, the biggestblip, the orange blip that went
away finally, you know, clearedthe way for some clarity to
return.
And, um, you know, what, whatBiden just did in terms of
pushing, uh, allowingunemployment through labor day
is just a gift.
You know, I mean, we're, we're,we would be, we'd really be a
(18:01):
bat.
The, our employees would reallybe in bad shape.
Now, obviously I have over ahundred part-time employees and
unfortunately I wasn't able tohelp them.
Um, I was able to find somemoney for the Philharmonic
musicians, um, to about 30 grandto help cover their losses in
March.
Cause we had, you know, we'vehad to cancel their concerts so
(18:22):
close in, um, to try and help,you know, and also allow them to
maintain unemployment, you know,the payments were, were
carefully made.
And um, so, you know, honestly Ifeel that we've been very, very
fortunate.
I think it has a lot to do withthe fact that, you know, the
barred Yvonne, you pack thePhilharmonic, there much loved
institutions that have beenaround for, you know, part of
(18:46):
one's 150 years old.
Right.
But, um, you know, I think thatthat, that has a lot to do with
why for foundations, localfoundations, corporations, and
individuals, you know, ourmembership, we have like 2000
members.
Um, they continue to up there,you know, to pay their
membership dues, even thoughthere's no shows, you know,
(19:08):
they're not getting anyadvantage, you know, they're
just supporting us cause they,you know, believe in what we're
doing.
So that's been huge.
And I can't tell you the federalsupport, you know, those PPPs
and you know, all those acronymsthat we learned very quickly.
I mean, that's almost a milliondollars, you know, between all
the government, things that havebeen made avail and the save our
(19:30):
stages grant, which you know, isfamously, was famously launched
poorly.
Uh, about two weeks ago, threeweeks ago, it finally was
launched successfully.
This passed a week ago todayactually.
And we were ready, very readyfor that grant.
So we got ours in the firstthree hours of it opening.
So we have a good chance ofseeing a lot of money, you know,
(19:54):
relatively speaking.
Um, you know, if it holds out,you know, if there's still money
left by the time our turn comesup, but I think there will be.
So those things have beencritical.
Totally critical.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
So, so back up a bit, when you say the save our stages
, um, I'm not familiar and maybesome of my listeners, what, what
happened because a lot of therollout during this whole thing
was there's no playbook.
There's nothing that people use.
So what happened with save ourstages?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah.
We'll save our stages wascreated by, um, I can't remember
where that, I think these in theMidwest like Cleveland, this guy
moose is his nickname, um, whichis an excellent name for
somebody that's trying to findmoney.
Um, he created, uh, he created anonprofit organization called
(20:47):
Neeva national independent venueassociation.
Um, we've got about 3000 members, um, theaters, just like the
and new pack across the countrywho were facing disaster as a
result of this, you know, notevery theater is as fortunate as
the Bard of honor, you pack tohave this great history and et
cetera, et cetera.
(21:07):
You know, some of them don'thave that, you know, or have
whatever or maybe they're neweror whatever it is.
Um, so he created thisorganization and hired lobbyists
and man, they worked the federalgovernment and they got, um,
what's her well besides, um,Chuck Schumer who was on board
(21:27):
from the get-go Brandy, JillBrown.
I'm sure.
I, I, she wasn't really directlyinvolved, but, uh, Amy Klobuchar
was, and she, she was very offcause he thought it was a
national thing.
She was very into it.
Anyway, they brought it, uh,they, they made it a part of the
1.9 trillion.
(21:48):
Um, it's a$15 billion packagefor venues.
Now.
It expanded into museums, uh,comedy clubs, uh, movies,
theaters, as well as venues andpromoters and booking agents,
even of all things even can goto this thing.
So it it's a big, big attempt,you know, honestly, since the
(22:11):
WPA of FDR, there has beennothing like this ever, ever for
arts organizations andindividuals in America, not even
close.
And it, and it's it, it bodeswell.
I mean, if the, if Congress orat least most of Congress can,
can see their way that 15billion it's worth 15 billion to
(22:32):
keep the, you know, performingarts venues in America open,
that's good.
That's a good acknowledgement,you know, to make.
So, um, so anyway, they, theycreated this grant program
through this SBA.
Um, now the SBA, uh, you know,the small business association
is not set up to give grants toarts organizations at all.
(22:54):
You know, they don't say don'tknow anything about horse
organizations.
So getting the, um, guidelineswritten and the questions, you
know, this again was part ofNeeva, moose, Neva, and us.
We were all part of it too, toget to, to give, send questions
to the SBA about questioning howtheir guidelines are being
(23:16):
written, because they have tounderstand how we operate, you
know, and it was, it wasfascinating, but you know, I
have to say it all worked out or, I mean, nobody's gotten a
nickel yet, but what the grantapplication that Emory just went
through, it took her about threehours.
Um, she said it was so muchbetter than what she anticipated
it being.
(23:37):
Uh, and we had to download and Ishould say upload so much
documentation, which makessense.
I mean, the SBA wants to see thedollars and cents want to see
the contracts.
They want you to prove that youdo what you do, which is fine
with me because I don't wantthat money going to fraud to
fraudsters.
You know, I want it to go to aperforming arts center.
So, so it it's, so that's justpart of it.
(23:59):
And they also created a$45billion, uh, grant, uh, uh,
application for restaurantsacross the country, which I
think will disappear fastbecause there's a lot more
restaurants and there aretheaters.
And, um, so these little, notlittle, these large grants have
really been it's, it's going tosave us.
(24:20):
It really literally is going tosave us.
And also more importantly, putus in a position when we finally
reopened that's stronger than wewere when we closed, which is
great because we all have torecover from this, you know, and
it's, it's weird, it's it'sdisorienting, but we're focusing
(24:41):
on the future in an optimisticway.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
All right.
So, so you had your weekends andevenings back a little bit.
Did it give you any time toreflect a little bit about the,
the future of programming, thefuture of theaters, you know,
and, and, and, you know, for ourlisteners, let, I, I just can't
say enough good things about thebar Davon and you pack and how
(25:06):
they are.
They are anchor institutions forthe communities in Kingston and
Poughkeepsie, but press, I mean,has this given you an
opportunity to say, Hey, maybewe should do something a little
differently?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, you know, it's funny, I mean, or I should say
it's odd.
You may know this, uh, RandyFleischer who was the conductor
of the Hudson ValleyPhilharmonic for 28 years, um,
died very suddenly.
And hor was horrible here forall, you know, rural crushed by
it, uh, last August of 2020.
(25:43):
And it was not COVID related.
He had a, uh, uh, undiagnosedheart attack.
I mean, it just, boom, he wasdead in a minute.
And, um, and he was loved, Imean, 28 years, he was the
conductor.
So, so that was a shock and itreally made us take a deep
breath and a step back, forinstance, how do you proceed?
(26:03):
You have to replace theconductor, but generally
speaking, you replace aconductor by, um, you know,
going through a long process,including a lot of in person
beats and stuff with potentialand, you know, national search.
And we just were not prepared todo that, especially all on zoom
was only three full-time people.
So we met with the orchestra anddecided to hire five, uh, guest
(26:27):
conductors and our focus withthose guests conductors that
there are, would that day beeither women or people of color,
except for one guy who's amember of the orchestra who is
going to conduct the opening, uh, concert, the principal of, uh,
uh, percussionist.
But he's also a conductor in NewYork city and a great guy
(26:50):
because the first concert it'sgoing to really reflect on the
last year and on Randy's deathand on COVID I on know black
lives matter on everything thatwe can jam into this opening
concert.
And we wanted to have a memberof that orchestra conduct that
concert so that it was all justin the family, so to speak.
But the other four, uh, wecurrently, we have a black man,
(27:13):
a black woman, an Asian woman,and a white woman set to go to
conduct these concerts.
Now that's the tip of theiceberg, the 10 or 11 soloists
for whether they're singers orviolin players or cellos or
whatever they're doing.
They're also people of color orwomen.
All of our programming is veryfocused on women.
(27:35):
Composers works that deal withsocially relevant themes, et
cetera, and that, and we weregoing in that direction or with
Randy at all times.
And we were doing a lot of very,uh, um, exciting programming,
but now we just feel such anurgency.
This is the one part of ourbusiness that we can kind of
(27:56):
control.
You know, we, we decide on therepertory, you know, it doesn't
just come in the door.
So it's been, so it's exciting.
And, and it's, you know, it'skind of risky, but not really
completely.
We're still going to give theaudience Beethoven and Mozart
and those people, but they'regoing to see a lot of new faces
of different hues than they'reused to.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
(28:17):
And we're also going to do, youknow, we do that anyway with our
programming because it's thenature of the beast.
You know, I mean, artists arecome from everywhere.
Um, but we are, we are, we arefocusing on that, Jonathan, um,
on trying to be as relevant aswe can be with everything we do.
And you can't, you know, you'renot going to do that with Brit
(28:38):
Floyd, you know, the pink Floydlight show, rock band.
It's just going to be fun.
Okay, fine.
That's okay.
I can't figure out how to makethat socially relevant, but, um,
uh, like for instance, we're,we're, we're looking to bring
in, like, we're bringing prettysure we've got Patty Smith's
coming now and, and doing a synccall.
(28:59):
She calls words in music andwe've encouraged him let her
speak from now.
She doesn't have to read a book.
She wrote two years ago.
She can talk about what'shappening right now.
It'd be fine with us.
Uh, David Sedaris is going to becoming again in the fall.
He always talks about what'shappening right now.
So, you know, we're, we'rehoping to have, you know, to be
(29:20):
more of a focal point for thecommunity to, to get, you know,
besides the uplift of beautifulmusic and rock and roll or
whatever you like, you know,whatever, the kind of thing,
dance, whatever it is, film, ifwe can add some, you know,
coherent, socially relevantprogramming, we'll, we will,
(29:42):
that's our goal and that's,what's changed.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's pretty impressive.
And that's pretty incredible theway that you've pivoted to
incorporate the, the moment intime that we're in.
Um, what will all the facilitiesopen or do you still, I mean, so
let, let's talk about the twoprinciple ones.
So there's you packing Kingston?
(30:05):
Are you still under seventy-fivepercent or 50% for a while, and
then yeah.
How, how is this?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, I actually, I think Cuomo just today, you
know, he just said everything'sopen fully except theaters or
like, yeah.
Um, but, but I think I, I didn'tread the fine print.
Uh, I think he went up to 33% orsomething today, you know,
except for, I dunno, it doesn'tmatter.
(30:34):
He hasn't, we have to be fullthat little attached to your
question.
We have to open it a hundredpercent because, um, for a lot
of reasons, but not the least ofwhich being that I can't pay the
artist's fees unless I can sellenough tickets, not to endure
all the other expenses that comewith, um, would putting on a
show, you know, if an artistcosts$50,000 and you can only
(30:55):
sell 500 tickets, you know, whatare you going to do?
You know, you can't charge$150for every ticket.
So, you know, it's so, so we'reproceeding as though both venues
will open fully in August.
Um, we're booking accordingly.
We have a bunch of shows bookedAugust, September, October,
right into next year.
(31:15):
Um, and we're actively doingothers, you know, including the
Philharmonic opening the end ofSeptember.
Again, the Philharmonic isanother, you know, we have to be
able to fit 50 or 60 musicianson the stage.
So if we can't, aren't allowedto do that.
We can't do a concert.
So, you know, we're, so we'rejust acting what I've been
seeing.
And we've all been seeing sinceJanuary or January 21st let's
(31:40):
say is, um, is a rapid, uh, youknow, an, uh, a rapid increase
in people getting vaccinated,um, in, in restrictions being
pulled back.
I mean, there's a real, realpush to reopen and, you know,
hopefully enough people will getvaccinated.
I hate seeing the time storytoday that we doubt will hit her
(32:05):
community.
I'm like, why do you even haveto say that?
Why can't you just be a littlemore positive?
You know?
Um, so, you know, we're going tohave to live with this forever.
I'm like, okay, thank you forruining my day.
Um, so, you know, look, ifeverybody has to wear a mask,
you know, until they sit orwhatever the heck the deal is,
we'll do it, but we can't reallyopen halfway.
(32:30):
It's just, it's not possible.
And so if they push us, if thatdoesn't happen, you know, and
I'm not speaking alone, I I'vetalked to colleagues up and down
the East coast every week, wehave a meeting, uh, especially
the guys up North who doBroadway, national tours of
Broadway.
They've been told that, um,Hamilton and lion King will be
(32:52):
on the road as of September,because if necessary, those
shows can work to reduce housebecause they're paid for 15
times over, they've already madetheir money.
So they're willing, they'rewilling to lose a couple of
bucks to get on the road.
Um, but all the shows onBroadway, they can't do that.
(33:13):
I mean, the expense is way toomuch.
So, so it's interesting, youknow, there's also look at the
South of our country.
If you're, you know, if you wantto go to Florida or Texas, you
probably can fly, play a fullhouse.
You know, I mean, they've been,they've been pretty much 50%
open since December.
We have a colleague in Florida,um, who who's been running his
(33:37):
1800 seat theater with 900people.
And I'm like, wow, that's justseems terrifying to me.
But, um, you know, at, beforevaccinations, this was before
vaccinations even hit, you know,you know, I, you know, Florida
is one of those States that sayslike, I, yeah, Texas, you know,
what are you people thinking?
(33:57):
Um, anyway, so yeah, we have toopen fully and we're going to
open both of them and hopefullyit'll be fine.
All right.
So let, let's broaden thediscussion a bit about, um,
because I think you've alludedto it several times and, uh, you
know, I I'll talk a little bitlater at the conclusion of this,
about what pattern's doing thisyear, um, to try to help the
(34:21):
arts out.
But, um, what I would like tosay since I've known you for
years, that the arts are peopleunderestimate the importance of
(34:41):
the arts to children, to adults,to communities, and the presence
of you pack the bar, Davon theHudson Valley Philharmonic, but
I'd rather hear it from you.
How important are the arts
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Pretty,
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Pretty, pretty darn important, but they're, well,
you know, just the, Theeconomics, I mean, we spent off
about 11 on top of buying aticket and it's, and it's, uh,
(35:26):
that, so, so just the economicbenefit alone is huge.
And, you know, we feel everysingle restaurant in town
whenever we have a show, I mean,that's just wonderful, but our
education are again, about 20years ago, we made a really
concerted effort to make surethat our program for kids we're
the most sophisticated, uh,intelligent that they never
(35:49):
spoke down to children, but theyonly spoke up to them.
And, and, and so those programshave been super important to
teachers in terms of how theycan relate to their children.
For instance, we just did asugar skull that we just did
this, uh, stream, uh, causethat's all we can do.
Now.
I have a show called sugar'scall, which celebrates the day
(36:09):
of the dead Mexico's day of thedead.
We had 4,000 kids watch thisthing and the teachers were
writing us letters of divertwere practically crying.
They were so happy that therewas finally some programming for
their Hispanic classworkclassmates.
So that the kids who, who speakSpanish as a first language,
(36:29):
actually had a program that wasabout them, you know, that spoke
of their traditions and their,you know, heritage, et cetera.
And we do that kind of thing alot.
And that's kind of vital to, youknow, there's another show that
we put out called step Africa,which is about stepping, which
is a traditionalAfrican-American dance form
(36:49):
created out of, um, uh,fraternities and sororities and
clubs and black and all blackcolleges, um, you know, like a
long time ago.
So that had an immediate impacton, on African-American
audiences, uh, kids in school,stuff like that is, um, you
know, you can't, you can'treplace it with something else.
I mean, it's gotta be aperforming artist, but it's
(37:11):
going to give you thatexperience.
And, um, so we're very proud ofit, you know, and that's, and
that's kind of encapsulates the,the importance besides just the
spiritual aspect of it that, youknow, when you go to hear your
favorite artist, whether that's,you know, Tony Bennett or Carlos
Santana, you're going to get ahuge, huge, spiritual uplift
(37:36):
from having that experience.
And that's the advantage of myjob really is that I get to have
those experiences every week tohave some great artists do an
incredible performance that justmoves you in different ways for
different reasons.
You know?
So, um, that's, that's really
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Chris, wasn't it in the beginning of the pandemic
that in Italy that was so hardhit that there were people
opening up their windows andsinging like opera outside in
the street just to boost morale.
I,
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It was beautiful.
It was beautiful.
You've made you think likeeverybody in Italy knows opera.
Wow.
And they're singing in achampion.
No, I know it's hilarious.
Well, you know, that happened ina city in New York city too.
Um, cause that wonderfulBroadway performer, um, I can't
remember his name now.
Uh, uh, he lived like, uh, onthe same block as one of the
(38:39):
hospitals.
So when workers would leave, hebusted his window open and sing,
you know, acapella, um, you'llnever walk alone, you know,
that's awesome, you know, orclimb every mountain or
whatever.
And, you know, just as he didevery night.
And as a matter of fact, we'replaying a, um, one of the pieces
(38:59):
of the orchestra is going to bedoing this season is called
seven o'clock shout, which isall about, you know, opening the
doors and windows for theworkers, the essential workers
going home and having acommunity, give shout outs, bang
their pots and pans together.
And, you know, yeah.
And that's one of the beautifulthings that happened, you know,
obviously during this wholenightmare is, you know,
(39:23):
humanity.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Well, I always thought it was interesting that,
you know, there were people thatbelieved in STEM education,
which is science, technology,education, math, I think, or
engineering and math.
And then there are people likeme and Leonardo DaVinci who are
actually steam guys where youinsert the a for arts, right?
(39:50):
Because it just causes the mindto think very, very differently
about science and technology andeverything.
There's something about thepresence of the arts, which you
have been so, so relevant, soimportant in the Hudson Valley
in terms of ensuring that thereis that component.
(40:13):
And I think that's part ofbringing us back is your time.
And hopefully the money you weredescribing enables you to do
this.
Um, if you ha you have thischance to, you know, we don't
want to, I don't want to go backto the way it was.
I want to think about the way itcould be.
And I think, you know, the artsand, and let's interpret that
(40:38):
very broadly so that it could bepainting.
It could be music.
It could be, uh, the re thespoken word as a form of art.
Um, I think there's this amazingopportunity for us to think
differently about the arts and,um, you know, it, it, it, I'm,
(41:01):
I'm glad you cleared this up forme, because I had heard that the
lion King wicked Hamilton, we'regoing to be able to open, but
the point is that they'd beenpaid for many times over, I
think what you said earlier, butthat newer productions, how, how
did they do this?
I mean, whether it's a newmusician or,
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You know, they have to, you know, it was like the
metropolitan opera, you know,how do you get that gigantic
machine?
I mean, they have 150 people onthe stage, you know, together,
uh, you know, the football fieldsize stage there.
Right.
So, um, but yeah, I mean, allthe unions in New York city are
trying to figure this out, youknow, from the actors to the
(41:45):
stage, hands to the musicians,they're all trying to figure it
out.
The bottom line is vaccinationis key of course, first, uh, I'm
sure that will be a given interms of all performers period,
but you're not gonna be able todo that necessarily with the
audience.
So, you know, showing, uh,showing a pass at the door that
you've been vaccinated, Isuppose, could be a way that's
(42:07):
the slowest possible way to getpeople animals into theater is
to make them stop show me thisthing.
That's got print this small onit, but at any rate, um, and I
know New York state has createdan app.
Uh, that's could hopefullyexpedite that.
And you, you know, Ticketmasterwill probably come up with some
app for, you know, enter ifyou're vaccinated, you know, or
(42:28):
something.
I have no idea.
Um, yeah, I mean, I don't, youknow, I don't know how Broadway
is, is a really hard, you know,Broadway, the worst, the hardest
part.
I mean, look at those lobbiesBroadway, there is no lobby.
It's like a past, you know, andso what do you do during an
admission?
You know, everybody stands upand goes to a bar that's Cheney,
(42:52):
you know, I mean, it's like, so,uh, you know, it's almost as
though everybody's going to haveto sort of take their chances.
I mean, if we open fully andyou're vaccinated, then you
could feel some more secure, butif you're not vaccinated, why
would you go anywhere?
(43:12):
Why would you, why would you gointo a crowded lobby?
It just makes no sense, but youknow, what can we do
Speaker 2 (43:18):
For those listening that was Chris silvers, uh, uh,
plead with people to go getvaccinated, which we all should
do.
Um, Chris you've over the years,you have taught me a lot about
like the touring acts like livenation, you know, so it's a
(43:41):
venue has to rely, it may haveits own idea of who it wants,
but if you're relying on livenation, which controls so many
of the touring acts, then don't,they have to first back up and
go, who's even willing to go outon tour.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely, who's goingto get on the bus, you know,
with 20 other guys, you know, uh, I mean, like I said, you know,
you don't see Bob Dylanannouncing any dates.
I mean, you know, and he is one,he's a road warrior.
I mean, he does a hundred showsa year.
And when he turns 80 in twoweeks, I think, and, um, and
(44:22):
he's going to go out again.
So it would really duct Jonathanwould Bob Dylan announces dates,
then probably things arehappening again.
But yeah, I mean, Bethel woodstotally is a live nation venue.
And so it's back up in Saratoga.
So they completely are bookedfor the most part.
I mean, I think Bethel does someof their own shows, but, um, by,
by live nation, we are not, Imean, we are not controlled by
(44:46):
any, any major industry.
All the, you know, we make ourown choices.
We have book shows with livenation and with Bowery presents
and with AEG, with all the bigcompanies that are out there,
but that's not, we don't have todepend on that, but you're so
right.
Um, you know, the beach boys,how are they going to all get
together?
They don't want you to old guys.
They can all get together in thebus.
(45:08):
You know?
I mean, all those acts young actdoesn't even really matter who
it is.
It's like, you have to, youknow, it's not even just getting
in the bus, you have to get out,go to a hotel that you've never
been in.
Hope that it's clean, you know,go, go to the venue, hope that
there's food.
That's good.
And that, you know, hope, hope,hope.
I mean, before it it's alwayshard.
(45:30):
The touring is one of thehardest things.
Period.
Some people romanticize it like,Oh, it's so romantic.
It's not romantic.
It's, it's hard, hard work goingto a different town in a boss.
You know?
I mean, some artists having alittle better, a little more
luxurious, but it's still agrind.
You know, it's still gettinginto a new space almost every
(45:52):
day, going through this routine,staying up late, eating food
that you don't know where itcame from, et cetera, et cetera,
you know, and that's why wetreat our, or try to treat ours
like absolute gold so that, youknow, I we've had artists take
pictures of our hospitality tosay, send us to the next venue.
This is what we want it to looklike.
You know, stuff like that.
(46:14):
We really bend over backwards.
Cause we really do know how hardit is and you want them to be
happy.
You know, when they're in yourvenue, you don't want them to be
off.
You know, it's just, thesepeople treat me great.
So, well, yeah, it's hard.
Thanks for spending some timewith us.
I know that half of the entireHudson Valley, we do hope you're
100% back at 100% open, um, thearts, um, all that you do and
(46:42):
all your facilities and thinkingabout it contributes so much to
why people want to live andvisit the Hudson Valley.
So thanks again, Chris.
You're very welcome.
You're very welcome.
Take care.
Thank you for tuning intopatterns and paradigms the
pattern podcast.
For more information about thisepisode, visit our website
(47:05):
pattern for progress.org/podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
[inaudible].
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