Doing all the things: The new blueprint for making a living in music

Pay for musicians in Austin has stayed the same for decades, and streaming often doesn’t bring in my money. So if you can’t make money playing music and you can’t make money selling music, what can you do? You’ll hear how Sara L. Houser, Chinasa Broxton and Carlos Dashawn Daniels Moore from Tribe Mafia, and […]

The post Doing all the things: The new blueprint for making a living in music appeared first on KUT & KUTX Studios -- Podcasts.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
I'm Elizabeth McQueen.
And I'm Miles Bloxin.
And this is Paws Play, the podcast
about live music, why it matters,
and what comes next.
Miles, this is our sixth season.
It's hard to believe.
Yeah, Elizabeth, we've covered so
much about Austin music in this

(00:21):
podcast.
And this season, we're looking into
the future.
Yes, we are.
I mean, right now we're in this
moment where everything is changing
so quickly, not just in
music, but like everywhere.
And we're wondering what the future
of Austin music might be.
Are there alternatives to streaming?
Or what about social media?
Can artists ditch socials and reach

(00:42):
their fans other ways?
What about AI, Elizabeth?
How are artists using it or not
using it? And what about the future
of South by Southwest after the
changes the organization made around
the music part of the festival?
What is Gen Z up to?
I mean, after all, they literally
are the future.
Yeah, they are.
And in this episode, we'll be
looking at what the future may hold

(01:03):
for how musicians make money here in
Austin.
How can you make a living when the
things that used to bring in money,
they don't anymore?
I mean, we've covered this a lot in
this podcast.
Musician pay has stayed the same for
decades in this city.
And let's be honest, streaming often
doesn't bring in much income for
local artists.
So if you can't make money playing
music, and you can make money

(01:24):
selling music, what can
you do?
Well, in this episode, we're
going to talk to four musicians who
are trying to answer that very
question.
Their solution?
Do lots of things.
Like Sara
I'm Sara L Houser and
I am a musician in Austin.
In her solo work, Sarah goes by

(01:44):
S.L. Houser.
We play her music on KUTX.
In fact, she's been an artist of the
month, but she does more than
just play her own gigs.
She tours in other people's bands.
I've been on the road a lot the last
couple of years with two artists,
Zela Day and Matthew Logan Vazquez.
She works in the studio playing
piano, and she does background
vocals and vocal arrangements on

(02:05):
other people's recordings.
I did it for a Spoon record,
I did for Golden Dawn, I've done
it for Walker Luke.
Walker Lukens is a musician and
producer here in Austin.
He also hosts the song confessional
podcast, which we distribute.
She's also written orchestrations.
Started by making some for Walker.
And then that kind of spiraled

(02:26):
out into doing some for other
artists around town.
She's written film scores.
I did a short film with
a guy named Jordan Langmore this
last year that maybe will come out
sometime. She's a producer.
I've produced an album for Lizzy
Lehman a couple years ago and
was part of Jimmy No's Project
Traction.
And she teaches.
I'm an adjunct professor at ACC in

(02:47):
the ATI department and
I freelance teach kids.
Yeah, Sarah does a lot of things.
But this wasn't always the case.
When Sarah was growing up, she was
obsessed with music.
I could like identify every song
on the radio. So when she was seven,
her parents got her a keyboard.
And they were just kind of like
explore. She signed herself up for
formal lessons at 11.

(03:08):
And after that she was into piano,
like into piano.
She practiced four hours a day
into it. She actually studied
classical music at first.
Then Sarah went to a performing arts
high school where she studied
classical piano and got into jazz.
Started playing gigs for the first
time. I started playing in jazz
combos at restaurants and stuff when
I was like 15 or 16.

(03:29):
So I guess that's like where I first
started like, oh I could make some
money.
From that time, she also started
writing her own music.
She ended up going to Berklee
College of Music, studying piano and
songwriting.
After she graduated, she moved to
Austin. She didn't think too much
about her choice, though.
All she knew was that she was burned
out from Berkley and she didn't want
to move to New York, L.A., or

(03:51):
Nashville.
I didn't really have a plan.
I did know that I wanted to come and
I want to start a band.
And I wanted play live music and
I wanted be a part of
the music community.
Plus, one of her favorite bands
was from Austin.
I loved Spoon in high school
and knowing that they were here
was like, that was even a carrot
enough for me where I was like

(04:11):
oh man.
Sarah did have an idea of what.
She wanted to do, though.
My one goal was to move here and
start a band.
So she got a job at Guero's.
I got it two weeks into living here.
And she started a band called A
House at Home.
Then that ended.
She joined a band, called The Couch.
It was a band her now husband,
Taylor Wilkins, was in.
Then after a couple of years, she
left that band and started her own

(04:33):
project.
And for a while that's what she did.
She worked at a restaurant and
played gigs, but then
about eight years later, she started
to get this itch.
I'd been far enough away from
college and like from my academic
world where I was like hi,
there's like so much stuff I want to
do with music.
Maybe I could start teaching, you

(04:54):
know, I knew that I wanted to kind
of bring that part of my brain
back to the forefront and not
just like the live show setting,
which was super
fun and fulfilling, but like was
a completely different part of my
brain than like my academic
experience.
So, she's started Teaching.
A couple of years after that she
started playing as a sideman in a

(05:15):
band called Golden Dawn Orchestra
which is a huge band that plays
like psychedelic world funk jazz.
And the way she got That gig was
pretty random.
Rick from Nine Mile called
me and he was like, hey, I know you
play piano, but would you be
interested in auditioning on
Vibraphone for a band and going to
Europe for five weeks?
Rick is Rick Pierrick, owner of
Nine Mile Records and Touring.

(05:37):
And I was like well, I played
vibraphone a little bit in jazz band
in high school. It's like piano with
sticks, you know?
And auditioned and then like three
weeks later was in Europe with them.
The two things I love probably
the most are playing music and
traveling. And so I was like,
oh, touring, like.
Duh. And I was really lucky to fall
in with them and like,
just they're my family, you know, at

(05:58):
this point. But working with them
and working on their records kind of
like cracked me open and like oh,
I could do this for anyone, you now.

(06:26):
So Sarah was playing live with her
own band and teaching.
And touring.
And around this time she
was also getting more comfortable in
the studio.
Walker was the first person to
pay me to come in the studio
and put background
vocals down.
the record sang background vocals onis called Tell It to the judge.

(07:00):
Walker ended up introducing Sarah
to Jim Eno, the drummer for
Spoon.
Which is like how I ended up
on the spoon record.
That spoon record was Hot Thoughts.
Wait, didn't Sarah say one reason
she moved to Austin was because
Spoon was like one of her favorite
bands and they were from here?
It's funny cause the spoon record

(07:21):
was like probably the second time I
ever got paid to come in and
record vocals. And it was like,
you know, just so surreal
to be asked to do that and
stuff. But then I had them on
my resume.
And so it turned into like,
oh, Sarah can do this
thing. I think where I
sort of started to like assert

(07:42):
myself is vocal harmony
work and being really efficient
in the studio and an efficient
communicator. And so it was like.
I can come in and knock out a
lot of stuff in like a pretty short
period of time, which when you're
paying for time is important.
And that connection to Jim Eno
led her to work with him on Project
Traction.
According to their website, Project

(08:02):
Tracton is about empowering women
plus gender-expansive musicians
to gain traction in the audio
production and engineering fields.
Sara Didn't really think of herself
as a producer.
Just even like having somebody
like Jim say,
I think he would be really good at
producing was like
huge. Yeah, so I did Project

(08:24):
Traction with him. I produced a song
for Lizzie.
Lizzie really loved it, loved
working with me.
And then we did a whole album
together at Estuary.
Lizzy is Lizzy Lehman.
You might remember Lizzy from one of
our past episodes.
The album they made together is
called Technicolor Love.

(09:09):
Walker Lukens also got her starteddoing
orchestrations.
I had gone in and like conducted
a session he knows I can read music
being from like my classical
background and stuff like that and
so we started talking about this
project he's been working on and
he was like I want you to do the
strings for it would you be open for
that and I was like, I could
do that for sure and I would love
to do that.

(09:29):
So Sarah plays her own shows
and teaches and tours with other
bands and does background vocals and
produces and does string
arrangements.
Like we said Sarah does a lot of
things.
She's a busy woman.
And how does that all work out
financially?
I'd say, Touring Session Work is
probably like, it's like
a quarter and a quarter, and then

(09:50):
teaching is like probably about
half, I would say.
Or maybe like teaching is a third,
and the remaining fraction,
because I'm not doing that math,
is just random
jobs or one-off
gigs or, you know,
just the kind of stuff that
sometimes falls into my lap.
So a third of her income is teaching

(10:10):
music?
Yeah, and Sarah says sometimes
musicians feel away about the
profession of teaching.
I think a lot of musicians have kind
of a very jaded look
at education of like, oh those that
can't do teach that trope,
and I just really hate it because,
I mean, I would not be here
without both the
good and bad teachers that I had

(10:31):
growing up, but getting a chance
to really share your knowledge with
somebody is so special.
I mean, and I have to say, like,
it's a huge accomplishment to not
have to do anything else, you know,
to like make your living doing music
in whatever form is
like.
I feel incredibly grateful.
I think there
was a significant portion of my

(10:53):
time in Austin where
I wasn't sure
that music was ever
going to be any kind of
income for me.
I was going to have to pivot or
I was gonna have to find some kind
of work or I just was
gonna barton and wait tables and
then do music on the side.
I really struggled for a long time,

(11:13):
especially coming from Berkeley
and seeing.
Lots of people that I went to
college with either
quit music altogether or
really struggle in
the music cities or
alternatively be on the Grammys
or touring with giant
bands or working on records
that were really famous or

(11:34):
scoring movies that were winning
Oscars and stuff.
And so there's a lot of weird
comparison thing that I
had to get over and go through
and just kind of.
Acknowledge that I'm on my own path
and I know that I
am going to figure it out eventually
or figure out a way to make it work.

(11:55):
Sars's created an LLC called
Sirenhouse that covers all the
things she does that aren't teaching
or her solo work as SL Houser.
I wanted like an umbrella term
or company for
like all the touring and session
work and all that kind of stuff that
I was doing.
And I wanted to sort of
kind of try to
put it out there that like I

(12:15):
could be this like one stop shop in
some ways. I wanted to put a name to
it and sort of treat it like I would
a band.
And Sarah said she's able to make a
living in music by saying yes,
a lot.
I kind of saw the writing on the
wall with the gig economy pretty
early on and
knew that it wasn't good for me and
my brain space.
So that's where I

(12:36):
did shift into the diversifying role
where it was like, okay, well,
I want music
to be how
I make my money.
But I also like to do lots
of different things with music and I
have an education that supports that
also.
I'm just gonna say yes to like every

(12:57):
job that I can and
see what sticks.
And I did that for a long time.
And, you know, did the one-off gigs
with people or played
in the airport,
or I did like one
day on set of Walker as a piano
supervisor.
She's talking about the TV show,
Walker, Texas Ranger which was
filmed In Austin.

(13:18):
Like I just did like anything I
could until I got to a place
where it was like I
could sustain myself and start to
say no to certain jobs or like
weed out what really wasn't serving
me and stuff.
But in terms of like just being
in a band and
making a living and being able to
afford to live in this city, I don't

(13:40):
know anybody I don't anybody
in this town that is able to do that
right now.
I could be wrong, but.
It certainly was not feasible for
me, which is
tough when it's a city that
says it's the live music capital of
the world.

(14:31):
Sarah does so many things, it's
actually really inspiring.
I love the fact that she figured out
a way to make it work by just trying
everything that she possibly could,
even though it wasn't what she set
out to do when she initially moved
here.
Totally, and you talked to a
couple guys who also figured out a
way to make a living by expanding
their ideas of what they can do

(14:51):
with music.
Yeah, I talked to Chinasa and Carlos
of Tribe Mafia.
Coming up after the break, we'll
hear from them.
This is Pause Play, the podcast
about live music, why it matters,
and what comes next.
In this episode, we're talking to
artists who've figured out how to
make a living in music by
diversifying what they do,

(15:12):
like Chanasa and Carlos from Tribe
Mafia.
Chanasa Broxton, I'm an artist,
sound engineer,
temporary videographer while our
creative director is not in town,
and an anime ampid watcher.
I'm the other half of Trimafia,
Carlos Deshawn Daniels-Moore.
And I'm an artist too, also.

(15:33):
We've talked to Tribe Mafia before
on this podcast, way back in like
2021.
Back then, they all lived in a
shared house and worked day jobs to
support their art.
And over the years, they've built a
name for themselves and they've
figured out how to make it work and
make a living in music.
So besides like doing like live
shows and putting out music,

(15:55):
how else do y'all make money from
music?
We sell merch, we do sync,
and we help other artists
with their music, if they need to
come record, I'll record them.
Basically, whatever that we can get
into artistically, we'll try to
see a dollar sign in it and
thrive at it as best as we can,
because I always tell people when I
work for them or if I work with

(16:16):
them, like I'm not going to be like
the best person, but I'm going to
give you what I do for myself,
and I put 110% in whatever I
do, so.
Yeah, you're like a walking
business, so you gotta treat
yourself like a walkin' brand.
So anything that a regular business
is doing, just do it for yourself.
Musical-wise or outside of music.
And based off of all the stuff that

(16:36):
you listed, Chanasa, what would you
say the top two streams of
revenue, like where do they come
from?
Definitely sync and then selling
merch.
Yeah, because people like a lot of
our stuff that we you know Produce
out and then sink wise.
I mean you can always you can make a
full-time living off of doing sink
Sync licensing is when music gets
placed in TV shows, films,

(16:57):
and commercials.
We've gone in depth about sync
licensing in earlier episodes,
but Chinasa really laid out why
it can be so good for
artists.
Every time you get music placed on a
TV show, you get paid.
You get paid every single three
months from Roaches with BMI or
ASCAP, whoever your rights are with.
So you get pay quarterly.
And if you're doing good on shows
and if it's like a top show, good.

(17:19):
My goal is always just to make like
at least 10 sync placements a year,
like good ones.
And yeah, you ain't got to do
anything else.
I mean, if you ain't trying to live
all bougie, like if you just trying
to like a regular life.
And just enjoy the music
that you're making and it gets
placed on the TV show, you can live
really good, you can do good.
Chinasa told me sometimes that
the amount you can get paid for
these placements can really vary.

(17:41):
So for the lowest we ever made was
like $50, which is cool.
And then the most we ever make was
like a 25,000 sync placement.
And that's why you said if you do 10
sync placements, then you're good
for the year.
Yeah, 25,000 times 10, you do the
math.
You do the math.
He pulled out his calculator, ladies
and gentlemen.
And then how did y'all get into

(18:01):
placements?
That's the producer name, Quality.
She was dope.
We did like one song with her.
It didn't get placed, but she
had told us that she did music for
a TV show and it paid her this much.
I was like, what?
You know how many streams that would
be for us to make that?
You know? And I was just like, wait,
so you're telling me that we're
doing all this hard work to get

(18:22):
10,000 streams, 5,000 screens,
and we only get 50 cents.
And it was so weird because at the
time we was already looking for
other ways to get paid more with
music Like yeah early on he was
already lookin for that and then it
just came
When we got our first placement, we
was like, what the?
$5,000 for this how
we just freestyled this ain't saying
then we get royalties after that ?

(18:46):
And get Royalties, real royalties?
We got our BMI check this past,
what was it?
25Th? It was not that long ago.
And I was like, oh snap.
I mean, we've always been getting
like pretty good royalty checks ever
since we started getting stream
placements. But I was just like, oh
snap, this is what a real royalty
check looks like.
And I said, wow, we can actually
like, it's not gonna go only to
the gas.
You know, it's gonna pay some bills.

(19:06):
And we're gonna have some.
And I say, dang, so this is what it
looks like when you actually like
getting like real placements
like quality placements.
And I'm just telling people like,
yeah, you gotta focus on sync first
because if you get on sync stuff, I
know it's a tedious thing to get
into and it's hard to get in to, but
once you actually start getting in
to and start placing songs,
yeah, your good because it's

(19:26):
so much more worth it
than like hoping to get a million
streams or spending all your money
to get a million stream that doesn't
even pay you back out.
We'll be talking about streaming in
an upcoming. Episode, by the way.
Chinasa said once they saw how much
money they could make from sync,
they started researching who they
could send their music to to get
placements.
They would watch the credits on

(19:47):
shows and find music supervisors
and reach out to them on Instagram.
But that didn't work.
And then one day, a person they
reached out to gave them some
advice.
You need to go reach out to one of
our libraries because these are the
people that we trust.
We're not gonna just take music from
you because what if you're using
like samples or loops
or illegal stuff from like YouTube,
you buying beats.
We don't want that.

(20:08):
Yeah, there are these music
libraries that you can submit your
music to. And this is often where
music supervisors will go when
they're looking for music.
So like with us, we went to
like audio vibes because they look
for, they're always looking for like
hip hop music.
We went to super selective.
They're always look for hip hop.
But you can go to any kind of
library and see what best fits the
genre of music that you make.

(20:28):
And don't try to make something that
you don't normally make just to be
inside the music library.
Because if you do that, they're
gonna be like, why are you giving us
this? This doesn't even make sense.
Like if you know you make hip hop
and you're trying to submit to like
metal music, why?
You're just wasting time.
And Chanasa told us that getting
your music in a library is just
the first step.
Once you get past that library
stage, you go into like the phase of

(20:49):
working directly with like a
supervisor or an agent.
Once you pass that stage, you go
directly with working with an
editor. Once you past the editor
stage, you go straight to working
with the creative director.
There's like, there's levels to
this.
There's level one, level two, level
three, level four, level five.

(21:20):
And you said the second thing is
merchandise.
Yeah, because you know when
you do shows and you do a show good
you bring out some merch
Just tell people every every single
two songs you get by on a set Hey, I
got some merch over here who wants
to buy something they're liking you
They're feeling you you brought your
own people out there A lot of people
is gonna want to support you anyway,
and if your merch look great You're

(21:40):
gonna make some money off of them
And I think that's the most
important thing that an artist
especially independent artists can
do is you know to make their money
back Cuz every time we do shows we
do a live band we
got people that we're bringing out
from different parts of the states
and that comes out of our pocket and
the most that you can do for
yourself if you're doing stuff like
that is to make some of your money
back.
Chinasa and Carlos told Miles they

(22:01):
often don't make money from
live shows.
All of our money goes to rehearsals,
it goes to our band, especially in
Austin, they be taxing over here.
They be taxin'.
But I get it, we're the live music
capital. And if you wanna do good
shows, you probably gotta
have live music because people don't
wanna only hear DJ sets,
which I love DJ sets.
I think that's fun because it's

(22:22):
just us.
We can keep some of that money for
the most part, but
to keep it real, like no, I noticed
when we got our own band, we started
getting booked for bigger events.
We started... We got sponsored by
Ford, Sennheiser.
We started getting like all these
big placement shows.
Brought to states
We never thought we would ever get,
but when
we're just doing DJ sets, we barely

(22:43):
got anything and the pay was
nothing. Sometimes it was for free.
You know, so it was like, okay, we
got to do what we got do, but if
we're going to do that, we need to
have some merch so we can make some
money for ourselves.
I love performing, but it's still
gotta make sense.
We don't wanna just wing
a show. Everything that we do is a
reflection of us and a reflection on

(23:03):
everybody else around us.
We're so heavy on bringing people
with us when we do shows because a
lot of people around us, they don't
get these kind of opportunities that
we get. And it took us a while to
get the opportunities that we can.
We see how hard it is for people to
be recognized here in Austin,
especially for the brown and black
community. It's hard to get these
really good shows.
And when we start bringing out
people, we're like, okay, here.

(23:25):
Whenever you got a show, you don't
got to bring us up, but if you do,
at least do it, do it like how we do
you. You know, I fly them out from
LA, I fly to them out of New York,
I fly the amount from wherever they
coming out of there, if they're our
guests, I'm gonna make sure that
they're taken care of, they're gonnaget
their own hotel.
It's out of our pocket.
So whenever we do our shows, yeah,
we got some merch cause we're trying
to make some of that money.
They told me that these new revenue

(23:46):
streams have actually changed their
focus.
They're playing fewer live shows.
Instead, they spend a lot of their
time making music for sync
placements.
In fact, I had trouble scheduling
this interview because they were so
busy.
Like you saw when you called me last
week, I had to make 12 songs that
was due that week.
And now, what they want out of their
careers is just...different

(24:07):
We first started off, yeah, we
definitely wanted to have the most
numbers.
We definitely wanted to do the most
biggest shows,
but none of that stuff matters.
Like we just want to make good music
and as long as that, you
know, as long we're making good
music to ourselves and it's it's
making sense. Yeah, we'll do
whatever we got to do.
Somebody better know about
me

(24:45):
And finally, we talk to an artist
who has really expanded how she
approaches what she does.
Meet Carrie.
Carrie Rodriguez.
I am a singer-songwriter,
violinist, vocalist, and
the founding executive director
of Laboratorio Arts.
Now, if you know Austin music,
you may know Carrie.
She's a classically trained

(25:05):
violinist who also played roots
music first in her teens with
her dad, David Rodriguez.
And then in her early 20s, she
started playing with Chip Taylor.
He wrote Angel of the Morning and
Wild Thing.
He asked her to do something she'd
never thought of doing.
He asked to sing.
And I had never sung before.
I mean, I would definitely not

(25:27):
have considered myself a singer at
all.
And I very shyly was like, well, OK,
I'll try.
OK, so we sang one duet.
And then a week
after that, he's like, let's make an
album of duets.
And
That's such a short timeline.
Seriously. Oh my gosh.
Um, but I was game, you

(25:47):
know, even though I'm like, I have
no idea how to do this.
But I, I don't know, I'd
love to figure it out.
I think I've always just, if there's
an opportunity, I take it and
I have faith that I'll figure it
Carrie and Chip made a bunch of
albums, and then in 2006 she
released her first solo album, Seven
Angels on a Bicycle.

(26:08):
And for a long time, she toured
and released her own music.
She moved to New York for a while,
and she moved back to Austin,
but she was still
touring a lot and didn't really
feel like I knew the Austin
musical community much
and just didn't feel involved in
a part of things.
And then in 2015,
she had a baby.

(26:28):
And that changed everything, of
course. And suddenly I'm like, oh,
I need to be home and I need figure
out how to get to
know people here.
And one thing, growing up in Austin,
I always felt like,
I mean, honestly, we are a very
segregated city.
And by geography,
there's all these lines and the I-35

(26:49):
and neighborhoods.
And in terms of Latin music,
I always feel like it was this
separate thing over here.
And it had its own following, but
then people so often
talk about us being the live music
capital of the world because they're
talking about the singer-songwriters
and the country folk artists.
And I just wanted to

(27:10):
find some space for,
like, a more diverse
musical experience for
myself, for an audience,
for my bandmates.
So I called my friend Michael
Ramos, who's a wonderful producer,
musician here in town, and
told him, I want to start this kind
of like Latin music series.

(27:30):
And I say Latin music with air
quotes because what is Latin
music? I mean, it can mean so
many different things.
And that's how, in 2017,
the Laboratorio music series was
born.
At first, the series was a pretty
low-key affair at the Cactus Cafe,
which is like this legendary venue
on the UT campus.
Lucinda Williams, the Dixie Chicks,

(27:51):
Lyle Lovett, they all played there,
but the room is tiny.
You can pack 120 in,
but it's uncomfortable.
Carrie and Michael got a band of
great Austin players, and they would
learn songs by guests like Ruben
Ramos, Adrian Casada, and
Eva Ibarra.
They would have one rehearsal and
then play the gig, and then they

(28:11):
would just see what happened
on stage.
It was a lot of fun, but at a
venue as small as the cactus,
it was financially kinda hard.
I would invite a guest
and say, well, we're going
to charge $20 for the tickets
at the door, and then we'll split
everything.
And then I realized, well I need to
at least be able to guarantee the

(28:32):
guest something better
than that.
And then often, basically what it
meant would be that I would
pay everybody a very humble
fee, and some of that was
coming out of my own pocket, because
I couldn't enough at the door to
even come up with a humble fee.
So it was really expensive on
just a personal level.
I just, just every single show there

(28:53):
was that weight and challenge of how
do I pay everyone for the
time they're putting into this?
Laboratorio went on hold during the
pandemic, but when it came back,
it was at a new venue.
It was at the State Theater.
State Theater was bigger, it fits
around 300 people, it's
right next to the Paramount Theater,
and it's one of the oldest theaters
in Austin.

(29:14):
They are both run by the same
people.
The state and the Paramount really,
I mean, they gave us a very,
very generous guarantee
that at least let me like, okay,
I can pay everybody a
respectable amount of money.
Carey said the organization really
got behind the show.
In addition to providing that
generous guarantee, they went above

(29:35):
and beyond with marketing and
production help.
And little by little, the
project that Carrie had created as a
way to connect with her community
and with other artists started
to grow.
We were like whoa Really love to getsome
artists that aren't just from here,
but like, let's get, you know,
someone from another place.
Then they have to fly in and then
you have to put them up.

(29:56):
And as it started to grow, it was
like, we can't, we still can't
sustain.
And that was when the idea of making
Laboratorio a non-profit and
not just a show came up.
We have dear friends who are
huge supporters, not only of
what we do with Laboratorio, but
of our community and so
many great organizations in Austin.

(30:17):
Our friends are Lynn Dobson and Greg
Wooldridge.
And basically, they set
me up with this consulting
company who consults with nonprofits
and helps them get organized
and get started.
And this company got me started
with the process of doing
the application with the IRS,
switch.
I mean, as a musician, we are not

(30:37):
prepared for such things,
such forms.
And it was wonderful.
So our dear friends,
Len and Greg, were responsible
for getting the whole thing started.
And then, extremely
generous, they gave
us this kind of nest egg for
three years in a row through the
Austin Community Foundation that

(30:59):
gives us the funds to start
the right way.
And to be able to set up everything
in the right way and just all
the help with like, what are best
practices, having the right kind
of board that has the right kinds of
skills. So we are
incredibly supported through this
process that I knew nothing about
and I'm learning more and
more every minute of

(31:20):
every day.
Being a nonprofit allows Cary to
expand how Laboratorio is
funded.
The organization can now apply for
grants and take in donations.
They actually got a two-year Thrive
Grant from the City of Austin
Economic Development Department.
It also expands with
what the organization can do.
So one of the things we've gotten to

(31:40):
do recently was, for example,
we had Flora de Toloache.
They're an all-female mariachi
ensemble. We got to take them to the
Ann Richards School for Young
Women Leaders and talk to the
all- female orchestra about what
it's like to be an all female band
on the road.
Things like that could have never
been possible before we became a
nonprofit.
What's the biggest thing that you've

(32:02):
learned from being
the founder and creator of
a non-profit?
That's such a good question.
Wow.
I think as, like
coming from my background of being
like a, you know, performing touring
singer songwriter, I've always felt
like I have to do

(32:24):
everything myself,
kind of to an extreme.
And I'm learning that with
a nonprofit, you cannot do that.
Because first of all, your nonprofit
belongs to everyone.
It's like we are part
of the community and we
belong to the community.
So you have to.

(32:44):
Allow them to help you.
And that's something that I, I would
say it doesn't maybe come naturally
just because I'm always just
felt like I have to do it all
myself, you know?
And I'm really like, no,
I have actually ask for help
and let people help and
they want to.
So that's my big,
big lesson.

(33:04):
I'm so happy to be saying it out
loud actually at this moment.
I need to say this every morning.
And does having a nonprofit make
not just the laboratorio
endeavor, but like your financial
situation more stable?
I feel like that could happen.

(33:26):
I mean, honestly, I mean just
to be like, like last year,
I think my total,
I guess my total salary
last year was like $5,000
for the year.
Because I'm trying to do so much
right now, but I do have these hopes
that I could figure things
out so that I could actually,
you know, have some

(33:48):
kind of salary, it wouldn't be
enough just a loan from
La Bordatoria, but something that
could pay for the time that
I spend, spend working on
it in combination with all the
other things that I do with music.
Um, so yes, I think that's
a possibility that it
could bring financial stability.
One thing that it has brought though

(34:09):
that I just there
is nothing that feels better
than writing checks
to musicians that
feel like they are
compensating them for their
work in a very fair legit
way. Like there's nothing that fills
better because that's
the hardest thing for

(34:30):
musicians to get paid what they
really deserve to be paid.
Carrie told us that she could have
paid herself more as the executive
director of Laboratorium, but
she chose not to this year because
she was the songwriter in residence
at UT.
She actually got a monthly salary
to be a songwriter and give labors a
month's salary.
Lectures and workshops.
Instead, she chose to give money to
the people who worked on projects

(34:51):
and shows for her nonprofit.
And over the course of last year,
the nonprofit paid around 80,000
to artists and musicians and
other creatives for various
projects.
Which is so rad.
And while she's been building
laboratorio, Carrie's also
been doing other things.
She wrote the music for a musical
called Americano, which is based on

(35:11):
the true story of Tony Valdivinos,
a man who wanted to enlist in the
Marines, but when he tried to,
found out he was undocumented.
Often I was writing about things
that I really, you know,
didn't know from experience.
You know, any songs that were about
wanting to be a Marine or the
Marines, like, I had to study.
I had to talk to Marines.

(35:31):
It premiered Phoenix and had a run
off Broadway.
She wrote music for a multimedia
show called Postcards from the
Board.
Postcards from the Border is a
collaboration between myself,
writer Oscar Cáceres and
photographer Joel Salcido.
And when Oscar came to me and asked
if I'd be interested in writing
songs to go with these
postcards he had written about

(35:52):
the border and about these
communities, it was a lot
easier for me to say yes and feel
confident that I could maybe do that
because I'd been through it.
Carrie, like Sarah and Tribe Mafia,
has made a career in music by being
open to new paths—paths
she didn't exactly choose.
If you had anything to say to those
musicians who were thinking like,

(36:13):
I really want to make a living in
music, but I'm having a hard time
just like playing gigs,
like what would you say to them?
Yeah.
Well.
Strength can always be found in
in collaboration.
I feel like I've since my
earliest days I've looked
to that and even working with

(36:33):
Chip Taylor like to start with I
that was a collaboration and through
that like I think coming
together with other
musicians and artists can bring a
lot of great things and it's a
good starting place you know because
maybe also like growing
up playing classical music, I would
see that that.
It can be kind of a limiting, lonely

(36:55):
place if you are just
trying to do one
singular thing.
Like, I just wanna play the
violin as perfectly as
possible so that I can get that job
in the symphony.
And that's kind of, it's
A, very, very difficult, but B,
it just kind of lonely,
hard situation.

(37:16):
So like opening yourself up to new
experiences is a good
starting place.
Let's turn the rain
video.

(37:49):
Opening yourself up to new
experiences and saying yes to
everything, that's just good life
advice.
Especially if you want to make a
living playing music.
We want to thank Sarah, Tribe Mafia,
and Carrie for telling us about all
the things they do.
In the next episode of Pause/Play,we'll be
talking about social media.
Lots of artists are getting fed up

(38:10):
with it. Some are even leaving it
all together.
What does the future of social media
and music look like?
Pause/Play is a production of KUT
and KUTX Studios.
It's hosted and produced by me,
Elizabeth McQueen.
And me, Myles Bloxon.
Hearing and editing help from Jake
Perlman and Rene Chavez.

(38:31):
Abby Bryfogle and Tinu Thomas helped
with production.
Stephanie Federico is our digital
editor. Michael Minassi is our
multimedia editor.
Our theme song was created by the
talented Jaron Marshall.
Pause/Play is a listener-supported
production.
Of KUT and KUTX Studios
in Austin, Texas.
You can support our work by becoming
a sustaining member at
supportthispodcast.org.