August 18, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, Deana Bartel of Randolph Brooks Federal Credit Union (RBFCU) discusses how the $18 billion credit union built its instant payments business case. From evaluating ACH transactions and digital wallet flows to addressing fraud, compliance, and staffing concerns, RBFCU shares lessons from its launch on the RTP® network. Hear how the credit union is keeping deposits in-house, preparing for send capabilities, and positioning members for faster, more seamless money movement.
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Episode Transcript
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Greg MacSweeney (00:06):
You are listening to Payments Nerds, a podcast where we share
perspectives on all things payments.
If you are a payments nerd tooor are a little bit curious about
what's going on in the paymentsworld, you are in the right place.
Let's start the show.
Hello and welcome to PaymentsNerds, where we talk about
anything that's payments related.
I'm Greg McSweeney, and I'm your host,and this is episode 49 of the show.
(00:30):
If you've listened to the past fewepisodes, you've realized we've been
speaking to many financial institutionsabout their instant payments journey.
You know, we've seen a hugesurge in new participants on the
RTP network in the last year.
Now there are more than 1000 participantson RTP up with 354 financial institutions
joining in the past year alone.
So it's really exciting to.
(00:50):
And what I find interesting is thatwhen we speak with different banks
and credit unions, they each havea different story to tell about
their instant payments journey.
About, about where they started, uh,where they are now, what they plan to do.
And they all have unique customers.
They have a unique client base,member base with different needs,
expectations, and requirements.
So it's kind of fun to see andit's, it's really interesting to
(01:11):
hear all the different stories.
One thing we hear from many financialinstitutions is that when they're trying
to build their instant payments journeyand they start their instant payments
journey, is they're having a littledifficulty with the business case.
You know, how do they make instantpayments part of their product portfolio
for their members and their customers?
Trying how to quantify that.
So today we're going to continue thisdiscussion about instant payments, of
(01:33):
course use cases and business cases,and I have two great guests today.
I'm lucky enough to have Dina Bartel,vice President of Payment Services at
Randolph Brooks Federal Credit Union.
Randolph Brooks is one of the largestcredit unions in the country, I think with
about 18 billion in assets, and RandolphBrooks is also one of the new financial
institutions on the RTP network this year.
(01:53):
Dina, thanks for joining us.
Deana Bartel (01:55):
Thanks for having me.
Greg MacSweeney (01:56):
Great.
I also have Melissa Ashley, president, CEOof corporate, one Federal Credit Union.
Corporate one is an early adopter ofRTP, and they've onboarded, I think more
than a hundred financial institutionsto the instant payment rails nowadays.
And I think probablyabout 84, 85 on RTP alone.
So that's really nice to see.
And credit one is definitelyone of the leading partners
(02:17):
on the RTP network for sure.
So Melissa, thanks for joining us.
Thank
Melissa Ashley (02:20):
you.
Greg MacSweeney (02:21):
Happy
Melissa Ashley (02:21):
to be here.
Greg MacSweeney (02:22):
Great.
So let's talk about businesscases and one of the things that.
Some organizations have struggl,they struggle with, you know, how
to quantify the need to add instantpayments that offering to your members.
Uh, and that's what we're gonna discuss.
So Dina, I'd like to start way back.
You know, when you were buildingout your business case, when you
were formula relating your plan forinstant payments, what did you decide?
(02:45):
How did you go through that process?
What, what were some of the steps there?
Deana Bartel (02:49):
Well, let me just say it was quite the journey.
I think when we first started hearing thebuzz about faster payments many years ago.
We were very intrigued, but we reallyneeded to learn more about it because
to your point, we had already, uh.
Spent some time investing in thedifferent payment channels that are
available to consumers, and we wantedto make sure that we were integrating
(03:13):
and leveraging it in the best waypossible to serve our members.
So we really took a fairlyslow approach to understanding
what instant payments were and.
We started to build that business case.
So when we, we made thedecision early on that we were
gonna break it into two parts.
We wanted to make sure thatwe broke it into receive only
(03:34):
capability and then send capability.
I think anytime you have a newproduct in market, there's a little
bit of uncertainty and we reallyneeded to define what those risks
were beyond the member benefits.
And so that's where we really startedearly on building our business case
so that we could seek the internal.
Approvals that we needed to startlaunching real-time payments.
(03:58):
And I think more specifically in thebusiness case, if you want me to kinda
jump in, what we really focused on.
So for receive only, we knew thisone was gonna be a quick win for us.
You know, it was just a better way tobring deposits into our members accounts.
I think there's a lot of different usecases that you can explore, but receive,
like I said, was just a, a quick win.
(04:20):
But we took the time to research whatothers were doing and we deal detailed
that in our business case as well.
But more specifically for send,we had to evaluate how much of
our current payment traffic mighttransition to the RTP network.
And so what we did was we focused on.
For our use cases, the one time a CHoriginations that we had in 2024, and
(04:46):
that's how we estimated the cost ofwhat would flow through the RTP network.
And we knew that that was estimatinghigh because it was unlikely
that everything was gonna go.
Through that channel, but ultimatelythat gave us the numbers that we needed
to get our executive team comfortablewith the impact of the cost, because it
is a little bit more to send an an RTPtransaction versus something like an A CH.
Greg MacSweeney (05:11):
Well, when you looked at those one-time a CH
originations, what were some of thetypes of transactions you were seeing?
Where did you think it RTPwould make the biggest benefit?
Deana Bartel (05:21):
Well, it was interesting because we had been tracking for a few
years, the just our member transactionsthat were flowing through like Venmo and
PayPal and the different providers whereyou can move money, and that's really
where we were focused in saying, howdo we get those funds back on our side
and how do we gain those transactions?
(05:42):
And so that's why we chose to focuson those one time originations and.
It was interesting because you see so manydifferent types of transactions and it
really puts things into perspective whenyou see how significant those volumes are.
Greg MacSweeney (05:58):
Right.
So I guess the thought process is, youknow, if, uh, you're moving, if the
money's out in a digital wallet somewhere,uh, it's not in in your financial
institution, you'd rather have it thereand then the members can then send that
money directly from their bank accountto their nanny to pay a bill or to.
A friend to split a dinner ratherthan going to another digital app.
Deana Bartel (06:19):
Absolutely.
We want to be their trusted partnerin moving money, and so that
was certainly the focus for us.
Greg MacSweeney (06:25):
Great.
Well, Melissa, you know, over a hundredonboarded onto the instant payment
rails, I'm sure this has come upwith a lot of your customers members.
How do they build their business case?
What are their stumbling blocks andhow do you help them overcome them?
Melissa Ashley (06:39):
I think you're right.
The business case and building of thebusiness case is one of the biggest
challenges that we see with credit unions,particularly because it is a new rail.
They haven't done this before.
It's not like you're using anexisting provider and you're just
converting to a new provider.
It's all new for the credit union.
So they are thinking aboutwhat's the investment required?
(07:00):
How long does this.
Take, what's the impact toexisting payment channels?
What's the fraud implications?
So they have a lot of questions and Ithink the credit unions that build the
best business case are trying to quantifyand use data to support their decisions.
So they are looking, like Dina said,at their A CH transactions, and I think
(07:21):
there a lot of them are looking tosee what's the impact with the digital
wallets and how much use are the creditunion members already using the digital.
To wallets and they see thedeposit flows that exist there.
So they try to take that data andquantify what will be the impact of
receive or send on their institution.
(07:42):
So that's one place where they'redefinitely looking for data to quantify.
And I would say that I think most ofthe credit unions see that after they
implement real-time payments, it doesn'tcannibalize existing payment channels.
They actually see more payments come.
To their credit union and it's anadditive transactions because they
(08:03):
tend to happen more frequently.
The other thing that they do is look atsome of the industry information, right?
The clearing house provides fraudinformation, and that's been fairly low,
and so credit unions are very pleasantlysurprised to see that the fraud on the RTP
rail is lower than what they see across alot of other payment channels, so that's
(08:26):
helps them alleviate their concerns.
Around risk.
And so they combine, you know, theinternal data that they've been able
to pull together along with the kindof the broader industry trends or
even some of the peer as they talk toother credit unions, that peer data.
And they put all that together.
And I think they've really been ableto alleviate concerns about fraud,
(08:49):
figure out where they're going tobetter serve their members, and.
How they're going toincrease member engagement.
And that starts to support thelonger term visions of the credit
unions to grow membership, to betheir primary financial institution.
And we see that when they put thatdata together, both the internal
and external data, they build avery compelling business case.
Greg MacSweeney (09:13):
That's a great point about the fraud rates
bring low and all the differentcomponents of the business case.
You know, we've always, everybody likesto hear, uh, people say faster payments
equals faster fraud, and it's not playingout right that, that way right now.
You know are very low, Tina, the fraudand the security and the risk compliance.
How did you work that into yourbusiness plan and what did you
(09:34):
do to make sure those boxes werechecked as you built the plan?
Deana Bartel (09:38):
Yeah, so we have a two-part business case.
The first is very much focusedon that concept and the cost
that I spoke about earlier.
And then the second part is really focusedon the risk fraud and the compliance.
And so what we did was we madesure that we included those teams.
Early on in the conversation so thatway we could try to mitigate any
(09:58):
concerns that they had early on.
And what we found in our evaluation isthat we already have so many robust tools
in place for other payment channels thatwe knew we could leverage those tools to
ultimately mitigate the fraud and risk.
Um, I think one of the mostinteresting conversations we had was
(10:20):
specifically with our fraud team.
And trying to not disrupt the transactionand allow them to vet it for fraud.
And so I know we had a little bitof back and forth in that, but
building the business case andhaving those conversations ultimately
is what helped us be successful.
But it, it certainly took some time.
Greg MacSweeney (10:41):
Definitely move on to it.
You know, we've talked about some of thebenefits, you know, receiving deposits,
keeping the money in their bank accountrather than at a digital wallet somewhere.
You know, and much of the talkabout instant payments has just been
about faster, you know, moving moneyfaster, making it more convenient,
reducing wait time, speed necessarily.
What about other benefits?
Are you seeing other benefits from instantpayments right now than just the speed?
(11:05):
The speed, I guess Talking point.
Deana Bartel (11:08):
So as just a receiver, currently the biggest thing that
we've seen is we really didn't haveto add any additional staffing,
and we really don't anticipateadding staffing for send as well.
So I think that's a huge benefit for us.
So we think it'll reduce alot of our manual processes
that we have in place today.
(11:30):
But where I really see the benefit isthat this is just an opportunity for us to
gain back some of our member transactions.
Melissa kind of alluded to this earlier.
I mean, we know our members are usingdifferent providers to move money
like Venmo, and we want our membersto come to us as the primary financial
institution so that they have a safeand reliable place to hold their funds.
(11:53):
And I think the member benefitis really going to be the most
important factor for R-B-F-C-U.
Greg MacSweeney (12:00):
That's interesting.
You didn't have to addany staff for Right.
A new payments rail, right?
Yep.
A new way to send money and receive money.
And no, no staff.
Deana Bartel (12:10):
No staff.
So far we've been very fortunate.
We haven't been asked topotentially send funds back, which
we know we're not required to do.
But as a credit union, we're alwaystrying to work with one another
and to achieve the best experience.
But fingers crossed, it staysthat way where we don't have to
add a staffing for this rail.
Greg MacSweeney (12:28):
Melissa, I'll give you the, the same type of question,
you know, what are the other benefitsyou're seeing And also, you know, are
you seeing this at some of your members?
Who are you not having to add staff?
Is that common or isthat, uh, an exception?
Melissa Ashley (12:40):
I think that it does provide operational efficiencies.
I think that compared to some of theother payment rails, when there's
a lot of day two work, that's beenthe biggest differentiator with the
immediate payments is the transactionseither occur or they don't.
If there's bad account information, badinstructions, the payment doesn't ha.
The money isn't therefor the consumer to send.
(13:02):
It doesn't go.
So it does provide hugeoperational efficiencies, I think,
on the back end to have thosetransactions move so seamlessly.
And we've definitely seen that.
I think the other thingthat we've seen is a.
On the implementation side, we havecredit unions pull together huge
teams initially, and I've heardthis from a lot of credit unions.
(13:24):
They're pulling together allkinds of folks to get involved
in the implementation process,and we've really tried to make
it as streamlined as possible.
And so by the time they getthrough a couple of meetings.
People are peeling off and figuring outthere's really a core group that have
to do the implementation and it's notas difficult as they initially think.
(13:44):
And so we've definitely seen a coupleareas where credit unions are very
pleasantly surprised that it, it's notas big of a challenge as they thought.
Greg MacSweeney (13:53):
It's not an not an all hands on deck implementation process.
Melissa Ashley (13:56):
It doesn't have to be no.
Greg MacSweeney (14:00):
The implementation process for receive, is that
kind of what you went through andexperience at at Randolph Brooks?
Deana Bartel (14:05):
Yes, absolutely.
We had a very seamless implementationfor receive only, and yes, everybody
in the credit union from all differentareas of the credit union wanted to
be involved because nobody reallyknew what the implementation was
gonna entail, and we were able to.
People were able to get back totheir normal day-to-day jobs because
(14:26):
we really just didn't need theresources because it was that easy.
Greg MacSweeney (14:31):
Interesting.
So you joined, uh, RandolBrooks joined in January, right?
Is that correct?
Yes.
Yeah.
So RTP in January and then,uh, fed now in March, right?
That's correct.
So what are the initial results?
What are you seeing, uh, in terms of yourvolume coming in from RTP and the, you
know, volume deposits, that sort of thing?
Deana Bartel (14:50):
So the RTP network.
Was really exciting for us because we sawour first transaction within four seconds
and I just thought, wow, that is so cool.
We went live right at 8:00 AM and thatfirst transaction was coming in, and
so I thought that was, that really, Ithink, proves the point that it really
is real time and that was fun to see.
(15:12):
I would say like in our first day,just tracking on the RTP network from
8:00 AM to like around 5:30 PM weaccepted over 359 transactions with
over $180,000 in dollar volume, andI thought that was pretty significant
just from a receive only perspective.
But then when we've been monitoringthe transactions since January through
(15:36):
the end of June, we've accepted over273,000 transactions on that rail
with over $120 million in volume.
So I think that volume reallyspeaks for itself, especially
from a deposit perspective.
So we continue to see the volumes growand we'll continue to monitor it as well.
(15:57):
Fenna wasn't quite as significant, butI think we'll see that grow as well.
Greg MacSweeney (16:02):
And you know, I don't know if you have this information or if
it's possible to figure it out that 120million, are those, are they coming from
a CH or wire or are they net new deposits?
You know, how would you categorize those?
Deana Bartel (16:16):
A lot of our top originators that we're seeing on the
RTP network is coming from Square,Venmo, PayPal, even, um, money Lion.
So.
It's exciting for me to see thatmaybe we're starting to steal
some of those funds back fromsome of those other providers.
But we will down the road, start toexplore the opportunity of how do we
(16:37):
pull our wires down the RTP network.
So I wouldn't say we're, we're seeingthat just yet, but I think your PayPal's
your Venmos, they better watch out'cause we're coming for that volume.
Greg MacSweeney (16:49):
Exactly.
Any other kind of typesof use cases there?
You mentioned the PayPal andthe Venmo, the digital wallets.
The money line, which I guessare consumer loans, possibly.
Any other kind of things standingout in terms of use cases?
Deana Bartel (17:02):
No, those have been the primary ones that we've seen and then
we've tried to track it regularly justto see if there's any fluctuation, but
those are still our top places thatwe're receiving transactions from.
Greg MacSweeney (17:15):
Fantastic.
Melissa, is that track with what you'reseeing with your, your other over a
hundred members that are on board?
Melissa Ashley (17:22):
It does, like you said.
Just in 2025, we connected20 credit unions, and so that
brings our total almost to 90credit unions on the RTP network.
We got third and more in thepipeline, so one in four credit
unions on the RTP network have beenconnected through corporate one.
So we do see, just reinforcing alittle bit about what Dina said.
(17:43):
Credit unions are so excited to seethat when they go live on the rail, it's
seconds, minutes, if not seconds, thatthey see the transactions start coming in.
And this is often without announcingthat they're on the RTP rail.
They don't make a member communicationor a member announcement.
So the member start utilizingthis functionality just in
(18:05):
their regular interaction with.
The financial ecosystem, and you're right,the top senders, Venmo Square, PayPal,
daily Pay, so the earned wages, we seetransactions come in from the gig economy.
Those are some of the major use cases.
We saw an increase in tax returnactivity this year from the credit unions
(18:27):
that we've brought online and seeingtheir members get their tax refunds
from their maybe tax preparer earlierthan they would have from the IRS.
So a lot of use casesfrom that standpoint.
The credit unions are, like Dinasaid, so excited to just see the
transactions happen so quickly.
They do see that there's almost 25% ofthe transactions occur on the weekend, so
(18:50):
a lot of member engagement on off hours.
Over 55% of the transactionscome after hours.
So outside of the normal, youknow, nine to five business hours.
So they really are excited thatthey're meeting the members' needs
from an engagement standpoint.
In those times that.
You know, they wouldn't have typicallybeen able to serve those members in that
(19:12):
way on the weekends and the evenings.
So that's a lot of what we're seeing.
And like I said, that people arejust so interested to see that
it really is real time and thattransactions can happen that quickly.
Greg MacSweeney (19:24):
Yeah.
The, the off hours, the, the latenights, the, you know, after normal
business hours, I think RTP is trackingabout 48% of the volume is weekends,
holidays, 10 o'clock at night.
When you're paying your bills,you just wanna do it then.
You wanna receive that moneyfrom your digital wallet, you
know, at the point in time.
Interesting.
Dina, have, have you received any directfeedback from either your consumers
(19:46):
or or business customers about this?
Have they come and say,wow, this is fantastic?
Deana Bartel (19:51):
Not yet.
Since we're only receiving, I thinkwe'll see it when we get to send,
just because when the member is ableto go into their online or mobile
banking and make that decision toget it there now, I think that's when
they're gonna get excited about it.
I mentioned this earlier, but it reallydoes give us that huge opportunity to
(20:12):
continue to build trust with our members.
And you know, we see them paying to sendmoney in real time with other providers.
So I think we have a huge opportunity'cause we're not gonna charge
for that to again, gain backsome of that transaction volume.
And I think our members aregonna be really excited to
see it once we get to send.
Greg MacSweeney (20:31):
That That's right.
Yeah.
Mean that that kind of trackswhat, what we hear from other
banks and credit unions too.
You know, when they're just doingreceive, they don't hear like, oh this
is great 'cause customers are justusing it and it works and fantastic.
That's when the send starts happening.
That's getting direct feedback.
I dunno, Melissa, if youhave any insights there.
Melissa Ashley (20:49):
Yeah, I think, you know, like you said.
It just kind of happens throughthe financial ecosystem.
I don't think the consumers necessarilyknow that they're on a different rail.
They just have this great experienceand I think that as consumers start
to see that more and more and get thatexperience, they're gonna want that.
The businesses are a little more.
(21:10):
Informed about which payment railthey're using at any given time.
And I do think the businesses asthey are able to better manage their
cash through immediate payments, aregonna demand that their financial
institution have this capability.
So that's the feedback that weget, is that once folks experience
it, they want more of it.
It's more convenient.
Greg MacSweeney (21:31):
I think that's a great point.
It's very hard to explain what it is.
Because they think a CH is fast.
I get my money through Zellethe same day, kind of sorta.
Many of us know on the back end, you,the money's coming the following day.
But you know, the, the banks andcredit unions are sometimes upfronting
that money, but when they actuallydo experience it, you know, they're
like, oh wow, I get that now.
(21:52):
I want this all the time.
That's kind of the change inmindset that's gonna be coming
over time I think as well.
I wanna go back to this talk a littlebit of the technical implementation.
You didn't have to have anystaff members, so that's good.
Well, were there any hiccups?
What were their concerns or problemsyou had during implementation?
Nina?
Deana Bartel (22:11):
Well, I wish I had some big elaborate story for you,
but I'm gonna be very boring.
Receive only implementation.
You know, we chose to partner withcorporate one as our third party
service provider, and it reallywas just such a seamless launch.
We had a couple of challenges, butmost of that was related to changes we
needed to make within our core system.
(22:34):
Nothing specific to the RTPnetwork or the Fed Now network or
really, you know, to corporate one.
So it was really easy.
Greg MacSweeney (22:44):
Melissa, what about on your.
What are some of the commonchallenges that credit unions
have to work through when they'rejoining instant payment rails?
Melissa Ashley (22:52):
Well, I'm thrilled to hear that Dina's experience was that good?
That's what we're going for, right?
We are a certified third partyservice provider, so we've prided
ourselves on trying to make theconnection as simple as possible.
We've partnered with nine cores acrossthe industry, so really helping to
work with those cores ahead of time tomake it easier for the credit unions.
(23:13):
The technical connections is.
Certainly a concern when credit unionsstart to think about immediate payments,
but we try to alleviate that with alot of options for the connectivity.
We work with them one-on-one tofigure out what's the right way to
connect into their infrastructure.
Some credit unions runtheir core in-house.
Some of them run 'em in a data center.
Some of them run them as acollaboration with other credit unions.
(23:37):
So we have multiple ways to connect them.
And then we have our core agnostic,API, flexible system to help them
actually receive the payment messages.
And again, working with the cores aheadof time, trying to work out all of those
kinks to make it as seamless as possible.
We've been able, if we have apre-existing core, and like I said,
we work with nine cores across.
(23:58):
The industry, which cover about 50%of the credit unions, we can get
implementation down to 45 to 60 days.
If we can get, you know, the rightpeople involved and the right core,
we can do it pretty seamlessly.
So credit unions have been very pleasedwith how easy, and I often do hear
from credit unions, this was one of theeasiest implementations that we've done.
(24:19):
So that receive side.
You know, I think through justcreating a more, like I said, the
implementation playbooks a morestreamlined, consistent process.
It helps get over a lot ofthose hurdles for credit unions.
Greg MacSweeney (24:33):
Fantastic.
So I wanna move on to the nexttopic of spending capabilities.
You know, what we've seen on theRTP network, especially in the
last year, 18 months, that the gapbetween when an organization joins
as a receive only to when they.
Send is shorter and sometimes they'redoing both at the same time, but a few
(24:53):
months, maybe six months, eight months.
Let's talk about Randolph Brooks, uh, andyour move to adding send capabilities.
Where are you with that and how did youbuild a business case for, for send?
Deana Bartel (25:04):
Yes.
So as I mentioned earlier, webuilt a separate business case
for the send capability and westarted that process probably.
Midyear last year, and we had totake it to committees and again,
get buy-in from our executive team.
(25:25):
So I would say from a send perspective,it was really focused on the cost and
the risk of those transactions when westarted building that business case.
We had to go back to committee a few timesand it was for very good questions that
were coming from our executive team andI, it was very nice to see how thoughtful
(25:46):
as an organization we were being inapproaching this new ability, right,
and being able to send in real time.
So I think everyone agreedacross the board that it was
a must have member benefit.
But again, it really boileddown to that cost and mitigating
the fraud and the risk.
So without speaking too specificallywith pricing, you know, we had that
(26:11):
increase in a, from going from ana CH transaction to a real time.
And once we identified that thepotential volume that I spoke about
earlier, it really put everythinginto perspective and allowed us to
get the approvals that we needed.
I would've loved to us to already be onSend, but I think most organizations run
(26:32):
into this challenge where we have a lotof really cool things being worked on,
and so it's also reliant on resourcesbeing available for those implementations.
And we should be kicking offour send project here and this
month sometime, so we're excitedto see that come to fruition.
Greg MacSweeney (26:49):
What were some of the technical things you
had to work through for Send?
What are some of the additional thingsyou had to put in place for offering Send?
Deana Bartel (26:56):
One of the things that we are working with corporate one
on is just connecting to some of ourdifferent providers to ensure that we're
seeing all those transactions and we'reevaluating them as they're coming in.
And so that's something we'reworking behind the scenes on.
But other than that, we already had.
All of our tools that we wanted from afraud and risk perspective implemented
(27:22):
in our online and mobile banking.
And so we chose to leverage thosetools that were available to us and
we'll continue to monitor and look fordifferent opportunities to continue to
mitigate any risk that we see pop up.
But I really don't anticipate.
There to be a huge need becauseI think we've done a really good
job on our side of making surethat we have those tools in place.
(27:46):
I think once we really get into fullimplementation of send, there may be
some little intricacies that we haveto work with to update, say maybe like
the transaction types in our, our coresystem or little things like that,
but so far we're not seeing a lot oftechnical changes happening on our side.
Greg MacSweeney (28:08):
Got it.
What are some of the common technicalhurdles that credit unions have
to overcome when they add send?
Melissa Ashley (28:15):
And I think just to more specifically kind of talk
about how we're supporting RandolphBrooks, we have designed our immediate
payment solution to be very holistic.
So we've already got received,we have the Send APIs available
and the request for pay.
So it allows a credit unionto evolve to whatever.
(28:37):
Solutions they wanna evolve to.
So one of the hurdles that's alreadytaken care of is we've technically
connected to their core, so wedon't have to worry about that.
Again, receive is up and running.
That's not an issue.
So now it's just connecting the SendAPIs and exposing those and allowing
them to use their platform fortheir front end user experience with
(29:00):
the backend that we already have.
So we can make it pretty seamlessfrom a. Just speaking more broadly
across all credit unions, that'swhere we're really trying to
work with those user experiences.
You know, the credit union membersare in the home banking, the mobile
banking platforms, that's where they'regoing to have the user experience.
So just like we were coreagnostic, we're front end ag.
(29:25):
And we'll work with any creditunion's front end provider
for those send experiences.
So I think that allows them to knowthey've got a partner that can expand
as they get ready to expand andintegrate to whatever fraud solutions
they might already have in place.
So we don't have a one size.
Fits all.
It's very friendly from the standpointof being able to expand as the credit
(29:47):
union grows and allows them to expand.
One of the other things that they need toconsider beyond the technical piece is the
funding and the liquidity requirements,and so that's one of the products that
we also built to help credit unions.
Manage that 24 7, 365.
So we have that all built out and readyfor credit unions to take advantage of
(30:08):
so that they don't have to, again, likeDina said, you don't have to implement
more staff to manage the 24 7 liquidity.
We can do that on their behalfwith our funding agent solution.
Greg MacSweeney (30:21):
Got it.
Tina, are you takingadvantage of the funding agent
capabilities from corporate one?
Deana Bartel (30:25):
We are, yes.
Greg MacSweeney (30:27):
Yeah, that's one of the, for smaller financial institutions
or even larger ones, like RandolphBrooks, the funding agent is something
that they, you have to think about whenit comes into payments on RTP for sure.
Another thing that Melissa mentionedwas the member experience, either
through the front end, eitherthe mobile app or the web portal.
You know, what are you doing for, youknow, member education at this point,
or planning, I mean, be probably notdoing it yet 'cause it's not ready,
(30:50):
you're not rolled out yet, but what'sin the works there in terms of getting.
Around materials or marketingready for, uh, member education.
Deana Bartel (30:59):
Yes, we anticipate doing a pretty significant member education push
and a staffing education push becausewe know that in order for people to one,
know the functionality is there and.
Two, to actually go and use it.
We need to make sure that our front lineshave that education and understanding
(31:20):
of how the send capability works andhow they can send that transaction.
I think that's one of the things wefocus on internally quite a bit, is
we want our employees at our BFCUusing the different payment channels
that we offer, so that way they canexplain that to our members as well.
(31:41):
I imagine though for the membereducation, we do pretty heavy pushes
through direct mail, email, social media.
We have built out our own, whatwe call move money functionality
within our online and mobile space.
And we've really taken the approachthat we wanna give our members the
(32:02):
option to send money however theychoose, but they don't necessarily
know the rail that it's going down.
We just need to know when youneed it there, how much it is.
And then on the back end we navigatethat so that way it's going down the
best possible payment rail that it can.
So I think it's important for us aswe begin our member education is that
(32:24):
they're, they're aware that we havethe capability to send in real time,
but it's still gonna be supportedthrough our normal Move money channel.
Greg MacSweeney (32:32):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
We're here on a, on aPayments Nerds podcast.
So we're talking Rails and instant A CH.
That's our terminology.
But the members and customers, they don't.
I sent an instant payment or.
I sent an electronic payment.
They don't know if it was a CH orwire or they just know it worked.
So members, they're not gonna need toknow what rail it's on, they're just
(32:54):
gonna need to know that it worked.
So.
Exactly.
So I think we've covered a lot here.
Um, we've covered your businesscase, your moving to send
customer, the member experience.
A bunch of stuff, some ofthe use cases you're seeing.
Is there anything else that we missedor is there any advice you would give
to listeners, especially for othercredit unions who are looking to
(33:15):
start their instant payments journey?
And we start with Melissa first, andthen I'll, uh, give it to Dina Melissa.
Melissa Ashley (33:22):
I think just advice, I think start with receive only.
That is one of the most critical things.
It's the easiest for credit unions todo the lowest risk, the easiest lift.
So start with that and then whenthey're ready to move forward, I
think building that use case forsend, really thinking about how is
it going to help their membership.
(33:44):
Do you have a lot of businessmembers that are demanding this?
And for you to.
Day competitive in the market?
Or is it the consumers?
And like Dina said on their side,helping them move money quicker,
that's a, a great use case for them.
Or a credit union might need internalcapabilities and looking at some of
the operational efficiencies or bettermember experience with funding loans and
(34:05):
how they fund loans for their members.
So I think identifying thatuse case is really critical.
And then, you know, leverageexperience partners.
I think that you can get therefaster if you are being helped by
others who have done it before you.
And so, you know, I, I know that's onething we're really trying to help credit
unions is just have that experience sothat we can leverage that and help them do
(34:28):
what they wanna do as quickly as possible.
Fantastic.
Greg MacSweeney (34:32):
Dina?
Deana Bartel (34:33):
Well, I agree with Melissa, but I would also say do it.
I think the time is now your peers andcompetitors are either offering real-time
payments or they will be soon, and Ithink it's the perfect opportunity to
get in the game and be a part of itbecause it's gonna be really important.
But I, I think, Melissa,your a hundred percent right,
know what your use cases are.
(34:54):
I think one of the most interestingthings that I found was I didn't think
we would have a lot of control on howwe leveraged real-time payments in
the early on, and it really ended upevolving into something where I felt
like I had a lot of control over sayinghow I wanted to use the RTP network and
how we would offer it to our members.
(35:14):
So the use cases, they're endless,but they also will drive what your
organization is seeking to pursue.
Greg MacSweeney (35:22):
I do have one more question.
It's a tradition on this show.
So we call the show Payments nerdsand we always ask our new guests on
the show, you know, a fun question.
You know, what makes you a payments nerd?
So I'm gonna start with Melissa.
What makes you a payments nerd?
Melissa Ashley (35:38):
We are definitely living and breathing this and we've been in the
immediate payments game since the start.
And so if you walk around corporate one,you will see so many people engaged in
real-time payments, immediate payments.
And so it's been very exciting and, andlike I said, we just live and breathe it.
So if you're talking to me, you'reusually talking to me about immediate
(35:59):
payments, which makes me a payment nerd.
Greg MacSweeney (36:02):
Great.
Yep.
Deana Bartel (36:05):
Yeah, so I think at R-B-F-C-U payments is such an
important part of the organization,but for me personally, I have been
doing this for probably 12 years now,and I still get excited about it.
And I think that's what makes mea payments nerd is I just love it.
Greg MacSweeney (36:21):
That's great.
Yep.
Well, here at the clearinghousewe're also payments errors.
We're running payments rails.
Consumers and you know, they don't knowabout it, they just send their payments.
But uh, yeah, we're allpayment nerds here as well.
So it is an exciting time in thepayments world with all of these changes.
So I think that wraps it up for today.
Uh, Dina, thank you for sharingyour story and, and Randolph
Brooks' story about offeringinstant payments over RTP and Fed.
(36:43):
Now I'm Melissa.
Congratulations on theimpressive milestone.
Over a hundred credit unions on,uh, the instant payment rails.
Of which are on RTP 90now, so that's pretty cool.
So on behalf of the clearinghouse andour guest, Dina from Randolph Brooks
and Melissa from Corporate one, I'dlike to thank each of our guests and
listeners for uh, tuning in today.
And if you enjoyed today's episode andyou want to hear more about payments,
(37:05):
you can find the Payments Nerd podcastwherever you subscribe to podcasts.
Simply search for payments nerds in yourpodcast app such as Apple or Spotify.
Thank you and have a great day.
Announcer (37:16):
The clearinghouse is full of payments nerds who just can't wait
to tell you about how the RTP networkhelps us financial institutions create
a faster and smarter experience fortheir corporate and retail customers.
Check out the schedule for online andin-person events@theclearinghouse.org.
Greg MacSweeney (37:34):
You've been listening to Payments Nerds.
To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show
in your favorite podcast player.
Thank you so much for listening.
Until next time.
You are listening to Payments Nerds, a podcast where we share
perspectives on all things payments.
If you are a payments nerd tooor are a little bit curious about
what's going on in the paymentsworld, you are in the right place.
Let's start the show.
Hello and welcome to PaymentsNerds, where we talk about
anything that's payments related.
I'm Greg McSweeney, and I'm your host,and this is episode 49 of the show.
(00:30):
If you've listened to the past fewepisodes, you've realized we've been
speaking to many financial institutionsabout their instant payments journey.
You know, we've seen a hugesurge in new participants on the
RTP network in the last year.
Now there are more than 1000 participantson RTP up with 354 financial institutions
joining in the past year alone.
So it's really exciting to.
(00:50):
And what I find interesting is thatwhen we speak with different banks
and credit unions, they each havea different story to tell about
their instant payments journey.
About, about where they started, uh,where they are now, what they plan to do.
And they all have unique customers.
They have a unique client base,member base with different needs,
expectations, and requirements.
So it's kind of fun to see andit's, it's really interesting to
(01:11):
hear all the different stories.
One thing we hear from many financialinstitutions is that when they're trying
to build their instant payments journeyand they start their instant payments
journey, is they're having a littledifficulty with the business case.
You know, how do they make instantpayments part of their product portfolio
for their members and their customers?
Trying how to quantify that.
So today we're going to continue thisdiscussion about instant payments, of
(01:33):
course use cases and business cases,and I have two great guests today.
I'm lucky enough to have Dina Bartel,vice President of Payment Services at
Randolph Brooks Federal Credit Union.
Randolph Brooks is one of the largestcredit unions in the country, I think with
about 18 billion in assets, and RandolphBrooks is also one of the new financial
institutions on the RTP network this year.
(01:53):
Dina, thanks for joining us.
Deana Bartel (01:55):
Thanks for having me.
Greg MacSweeney (01:56):
Great.
I also have Melissa Ashley, president, CEOof corporate, one Federal Credit Union.
Corporate one is an early adopter ofRTP, and they've onboarded, I think more
than a hundred financial institutionsto the instant payment rails nowadays.
And I think probablyabout 84, 85 on RTP alone.
So that's really nice to see.
And credit one is definitelyone of the leading partners
(02:17):
on the RTP network for sure.
So Melissa, thanks for joining us.
Thank
Melissa Ashley (02:20):
you.
Greg MacSweeney (02:21):
Happy
Melissa Ashley (02:21):
to be here.
Greg MacSweeney (02:22):
Great.
So let's talk about businesscases and one of the things that.
Some organizations have struggl,they struggle with, you know, how
to quantify the need to add instantpayments that offering to your members.
Uh, and that's what we're gonna discuss.
So Dina, I'd like to start way back.
You know, when you were buildingout your business case, when you
were formula relating your plan forinstant payments, what did you decide?
(02:45):
How did you go through that process?
What, what were some of the steps there?
Deana Bartel (02:49):
Well, let me just say it was quite the journey.
I think when we first started hearing thebuzz about faster payments many years ago.
We were very intrigued, but we reallyneeded to learn more about it because
to your point, we had already, uh.
Spent some time investing in thedifferent payment channels that are
available to consumers, and we wantedto make sure that we were integrating
(03:13):
and leveraging it in the best waypossible to serve our members.
So we really took a fairlyslow approach to understanding
what instant payments were and.
We started to build that business case.
So when we, we made thedecision early on that we were
gonna break it into two parts.
We wanted to make sure thatwe broke it into receive only
(03:34):
capability and then send capability.
I think anytime you have a newproduct in market, there's a little
bit of uncertainty and we reallyneeded to define what those risks
were beyond the member benefits.
And so that's where we really startedearly on building our business case
so that we could seek the internal.
Approvals that we needed to startlaunching real-time payments.
(03:58):
And I think more specifically in thebusiness case, if you want me to kinda
jump in, what we really focused on.
So for receive only, we knew thisone was gonna be a quick win for us.
You know, it was just a better way tobring deposits into our members accounts.
I think there's a lot of different usecases that you can explore, but receive,
like I said, was just a, a quick win.
(04:20):
But we took the time to research whatothers were doing and we deal detailed
that in our business case as well.
But more specifically for send,we had to evaluate how much of
our current payment traffic mighttransition to the RTP network.
And so what we did was we focused on.
For our use cases, the one time a CHoriginations that we had in 2024, and
(04:46):
that's how we estimated the cost ofwhat would flow through the RTP network.
And we knew that that was estimatinghigh because it was unlikely
that everything was gonna go.
Through that channel, but ultimatelythat gave us the numbers that we needed
to get our executive team comfortablewith the impact of the cost, because it
is a little bit more to send an an RTPtransaction versus something like an A CH.
Greg MacSweeney (05:11):
Well, when you looked at those one-time a CH
originations, what were some of thetypes of transactions you were seeing?
Where did you think it RTPwould make the biggest benefit?
Deana Bartel (05:21):
Well, it was interesting because we had been tracking for a few
years, the just our member transactionsthat were flowing through like Venmo and
PayPal and the different providers whereyou can move money, and that's really
where we were focused in saying, howdo we get those funds back on our side
and how do we gain those transactions?
(05:42):
And so that's why we chose to focuson those one time originations and.
It was interesting because you see so manydifferent types of transactions and it
really puts things into perspective whenyou see how significant those volumes are.
Greg MacSweeney (05:58):
Right.
So I guess the thought process is, youknow, if, uh, you're moving, if the
money's out in a digital wallet somewhere,uh, it's not in in your financial
institution, you'd rather have it thereand then the members can then send that
money directly from their bank accountto their nanny to pay a bill or to.
A friend to split a dinner ratherthan going to another digital app.
Deana Bartel (06:19):
Absolutely.
We want to be their trusted partnerin moving money, and so that
was certainly the focus for us.
Greg MacSweeney (06:25):
Great.
Well, Melissa, you know, over a hundredonboarded onto the instant payment
rails, I'm sure this has come upwith a lot of your customers members.
How do they build their business case?
What are their stumbling blocks andhow do you help them overcome them?
Melissa Ashley (06:39):
I think you're right.
The business case and building of thebusiness case is one of the biggest
challenges that we see with credit unions,particularly because it is a new rail.
They haven't done this before.
It's not like you're using anexisting provider and you're just
converting to a new provider.
It's all new for the credit union.
So they are thinking aboutwhat's the investment required?
(07:00):
How long does this.
Take, what's the impact toexisting payment channels?
What's the fraud implications?
So they have a lot of questions and Ithink the credit unions that build the
best business case are trying to quantifyand use data to support their decisions.
So they are looking, like Dina said,at their A CH transactions, and I think
(07:21):
there a lot of them are looking tosee what's the impact with the digital
wallets and how much use are the creditunion members already using the digital.
To wallets and they see thedeposit flows that exist there.
So they try to take that data andquantify what will be the impact of
receive or send on their institution.
(07:42):
So that's one place where they'redefinitely looking for data to quantify.
And I would say that I think most ofthe credit unions see that after they
implement real-time payments, it doesn'tcannibalize existing payment channels.
They actually see more payments come.
To their credit union and it's anadditive transactions because they
(08:03):
tend to happen more frequently.
The other thing that they do is look atsome of the industry information, right?
The clearing house provides fraudinformation, and that's been fairly low,
and so credit unions are very pleasantlysurprised to see that the fraud on the RTP
rail is lower than what they see across alot of other payment channels, so that's
(08:26):
helps them alleviate their concerns.
Around risk.
And so they combine, you know, theinternal data that they've been able
to pull together along with the kindof the broader industry trends or
even some of the peer as they talk toother credit unions, that peer data.
And they put all that together.
And I think they've really been ableto alleviate concerns about fraud,
(08:49):
figure out where they're going tobetter serve their members, and.
How they're going toincrease member engagement.
And that starts to support thelonger term visions of the credit
unions to grow membership, to betheir primary financial institution.
And we see that when they put thatdata together, both the internal
and external data, they build avery compelling business case.
Greg MacSweeney (09:13):
That's a great point about the fraud rates
bring low and all the differentcomponents of the business case.
You know, we've always, everybody likesto hear, uh, people say faster payments
equals faster fraud, and it's not playingout right that, that way right now.
You know are very low, Tina, the fraudand the security and the risk compliance.
How did you work that into yourbusiness plan and what did you
(09:34):
do to make sure those boxes werechecked as you built the plan?
Deana Bartel (09:38):
Yeah, so we have a two-part business case.
The first is very much focusedon that concept and the cost
that I spoke about earlier.
And then the second part is really focusedon the risk fraud and the compliance.
And so what we did was we madesure that we included those teams.
Early on in the conversation so thatway we could try to mitigate any
(09:58):
concerns that they had early on.
And what we found in our evaluation isthat we already have so many robust tools
in place for other payment channels thatwe knew we could leverage those tools to
ultimately mitigate the fraud and risk.
Um, I think one of the mostinteresting conversations we had was
(10:20):
specifically with our fraud team.
And trying to not disrupt the transactionand allow them to vet it for fraud.
And so I know we had a little bitof back and forth in that, but
building the business case andhaving those conversations ultimately
is what helped us be successful.
But it, it certainly took some time.
Greg MacSweeney (10:41):
Definitely move on to it.
You know, we've talked about some of thebenefits, you know, receiving deposits,
keeping the money in their bank accountrather than at a digital wallet somewhere.
You know, and much of the talkabout instant payments has just been
about faster, you know, moving moneyfaster, making it more convenient,
reducing wait time, speed necessarily.
What about other benefits?
Are you seeing other benefits from instantpayments right now than just the speed?
(11:05):
The speed, I guess Talking point.
Deana Bartel (11:08):
So as just a receiver, currently the biggest thing that
we've seen is we really didn't haveto add any additional staffing,
and we really don't anticipateadding staffing for send as well.
So I think that's a huge benefit for us.
So we think it'll reduce alot of our manual processes
that we have in place today.
(11:30):
But where I really see the benefit isthat this is just an opportunity for us to
gain back some of our member transactions.
Melissa kind of alluded to this earlier.
I mean, we know our members are usingdifferent providers to move money
like Venmo, and we want our membersto come to us as the primary financial
institution so that they have a safeand reliable place to hold their funds.
(11:53):
And I think the member benefitis really going to be the most
important factor for R-B-F-C-U.
Greg MacSweeney (12:00):
That's interesting.
You didn't have to addany staff for Right.
A new payments rail, right?
Yep.
A new way to send money and receive money.
And no, no staff.
Deana Bartel (12:10):
No staff.
So far we've been very fortunate.
We haven't been asked topotentially send funds back, which
we know we're not required to do.
But as a credit union, we're alwaystrying to work with one another
and to achieve the best experience.
But fingers crossed, it staysthat way where we don't have to
add a staffing for this rail.
Greg MacSweeney (12:28):
Melissa, I'll give you the, the same type of question,
you know, what are the other benefitsyou're seeing And also, you know, are
you seeing this at some of your members?
Who are you not having to add staff?
Is that common or isthat, uh, an exception?
Melissa Ashley (12:40):
I think that it does provide operational efficiencies.
I think that compared to some of theother payment rails, when there's
a lot of day two work, that's beenthe biggest differentiator with the
immediate payments is the transactionseither occur or they don't.
If there's bad account information, badinstructions, the payment doesn't ha.
The money isn't therefor the consumer to send.
(13:02):
It doesn't go.
So it does provide hugeoperational efficiencies, I think,
on the back end to have thosetransactions move so seamlessly.
And we've definitely seen that.
I think the other thingthat we've seen is a.
On the implementation side, we havecredit unions pull together huge
teams initially, and I've heardthis from a lot of credit unions.
(13:24):
They're pulling together allkinds of folks to get involved
in the implementation process,and we've really tried to make
it as streamlined as possible.
And so by the time they getthrough a couple of meetings.
People are peeling off and figuring outthere's really a core group that have
to do the implementation and it's notas difficult as they initially think.
(13:44):
And so we've definitely seen a coupleareas where credit unions are very
pleasantly surprised that it, it's notas big of a challenge as they thought.
Greg MacSweeney (13:53):
It's not an not an all hands on deck implementation process.
Melissa Ashley (13:56):
It doesn't have to be no.
Greg MacSweeney (14:00):
The implementation process for receive, is that
kind of what you went through andexperience at at Randolph Brooks?
Deana Bartel (14:05):
Yes, absolutely.
We had a very seamless implementationfor receive only, and yes, everybody
in the credit union from all differentareas of the credit union wanted to
be involved because nobody reallyknew what the implementation was
gonna entail, and we were able to.
People were able to get back totheir normal day-to-day jobs because
(14:26):
we really just didn't need theresources because it was that easy.
Greg MacSweeney (14:31):
Interesting.
So you joined, uh, RandolBrooks joined in January, right?
Is that correct?
Yes.
Yeah.
So RTP in January and then,uh, fed now in March, right?
That's correct.
So what are the initial results?
What are you seeing, uh, in terms of yourvolume coming in from RTP and the, you
know, volume deposits, that sort of thing?
Deana Bartel (14:50):
So the RTP network.
Was really exciting for us because we sawour first transaction within four seconds
and I just thought, wow, that is so cool.
We went live right at 8:00 AM and thatfirst transaction was coming in, and
so I thought that was, that really, Ithink, proves the point that it really
is real time and that was fun to see.
(15:12):
I would say like in our first day,just tracking on the RTP network from
8:00 AM to like around 5:30 PM weaccepted over 359 transactions with
over $180,000 in dollar volume, andI thought that was pretty significant
just from a receive only perspective.
But then when we've been monitoringthe transactions since January through
(15:36):
the end of June, we've accepted over273,000 transactions on that rail
with over $120 million in volume.
So I think that volume reallyspeaks for itself, especially
from a deposit perspective.
So we continue to see the volumes growand we'll continue to monitor it as well.
(15:57):
Fenna wasn't quite as significant, butI think we'll see that grow as well.
Greg MacSweeney (16:02):
And you know, I don't know if you have this information or if
it's possible to figure it out that 120million, are those, are they coming from
a CH or wire or are they net new deposits?
You know, how would you categorize those?
Deana Bartel (16:16):
A lot of our top originators that we're seeing on the
RTP network is coming from Square,Venmo, PayPal, even, um, money Lion.
So.
It's exciting for me to see thatmaybe we're starting to steal
some of those funds back fromsome of those other providers.
But we will down the road, start toexplore the opportunity of how do we
(16:37):
pull our wires down the RTP network.
So I wouldn't say we're, we're seeingthat just yet, but I think your PayPal's
your Venmos, they better watch out'cause we're coming for that volume.
Greg MacSweeney (16:49):
Exactly.
Any other kind of typesof use cases there?
You mentioned the PayPal andthe Venmo, the digital wallets.
The money line, which I guessare consumer loans, possibly.
Any other kind of things standingout in terms of use cases?
Deana Bartel (17:02):
No, those have been the primary ones that we've seen and then
we've tried to track it regularly justto see if there's any fluctuation, but
those are still our top places thatwe're receiving transactions from.
Greg MacSweeney (17:15):
Fantastic.
Melissa, is that track with what you'reseeing with your, your other over a
hundred members that are on board?
Melissa Ashley (17:22):
It does, like you said.
Just in 2025, we connected20 credit unions, and so that
brings our total almost to 90credit unions on the RTP network.
We got third and more in thepipeline, so one in four credit
unions on the RTP network have beenconnected through corporate one.
So we do see, just reinforcing alittle bit about what Dina said.
(17:43):
Credit unions are so excited to seethat when they go live on the rail, it's
seconds, minutes, if not seconds, thatthey see the transactions start coming in.
And this is often without announcingthat they're on the RTP rail.
They don't make a member communicationor a member announcement.
So the member start utilizingthis functionality just in
(18:05):
their regular interaction with.
The financial ecosystem, and you're right,the top senders, Venmo Square, PayPal,
daily Pay, so the earned wages, we seetransactions come in from the gig economy.
Those are some of the major use cases.
We saw an increase in tax returnactivity this year from the credit unions
(18:27):
that we've brought online and seeingtheir members get their tax refunds
from their maybe tax preparer earlierthan they would have from the IRS.
So a lot of use casesfrom that standpoint.
The credit unions are, like Dinasaid, so excited to just see the
transactions happen so quickly.
They do see that there's almost 25% ofthe transactions occur on the weekend, so
(18:50):
a lot of member engagement on off hours.
Over 55% of the transactionscome after hours.
So outside of the normal, youknow, nine to five business hours.
So they really are excited thatthey're meeting the members' needs
from an engagement standpoint.
In those times that.
You know, they wouldn't have typicallybeen able to serve those members in that
(19:12):
way on the weekends and the evenings.
So that's a lot of what we're seeing.
And like I said, that people arejust so interested to see that
it really is real time and thattransactions can happen that quickly.
Greg MacSweeney (19:24):
Yeah.
The, the off hours, the, the latenights, the, you know, after normal
business hours, I think RTP is trackingabout 48% of the volume is weekends,
holidays, 10 o'clock at night.
When you're paying your bills,you just wanna do it then.
You wanna receive that moneyfrom your digital wallet, you
know, at the point in time.
Interesting.
Dina, have, have you received any directfeedback from either your consumers
(19:46):
or or business customers about this?
Have they come and say,wow, this is fantastic?
Deana Bartel (19:51):
Not yet.
Since we're only receiving, I thinkwe'll see it when we get to send,
just because when the member is ableto go into their online or mobile
banking and make that decision toget it there now, I think that's when
they're gonna get excited about it.
I mentioned this earlier, but it reallydoes give us that huge opportunity to
(20:12):
continue to build trust with our members.
And you know, we see them paying to sendmoney in real time with other providers.
So I think we have a huge opportunity'cause we're not gonna charge
for that to again, gain backsome of that transaction volume.
And I think our members aregonna be really excited to
see it once we get to send.
Greg MacSweeney (20:31):
That That's right.
Yeah.
Mean that that kind of trackswhat, what we hear from other
banks and credit unions too.
You know, when they're just doingreceive, they don't hear like, oh this
is great 'cause customers are justusing it and it works and fantastic.
That's when the send starts happening.
That's getting direct feedback.
I dunno, Melissa, if youhave any insights there.
Melissa Ashley (20:49):
Yeah, I think, you know, like you said.
It just kind of happens throughthe financial ecosystem.
I don't think the consumers necessarilyknow that they're on a different rail.
They just have this great experienceand I think that as consumers start
to see that more and more and get thatexperience, they're gonna want that.
The businesses are a little more.
(21:10):
Informed about which payment railthey're using at any given time.
And I do think the businesses asthey are able to better manage their
cash through immediate payments, aregonna demand that their financial
institution have this capability.
So that's the feedback that weget, is that once folks experience
it, they want more of it.
It's more convenient.
Greg MacSweeney (21:31):
I think that's a great point.
It's very hard to explain what it is.
Because they think a CH is fast.
I get my money through Zellethe same day, kind of sorta.
Many of us know on the back end, you,the money's coming the following day.
But you know, the, the banks andcredit unions are sometimes upfronting
that money, but when they actuallydo experience it, you know, they're
like, oh wow, I get that now.
(21:52):
I want this all the time.
That's kind of the change inmindset that's gonna be coming
over time I think as well.
I wanna go back to this talk a littlebit of the technical implementation.
You didn't have to have anystaff members, so that's good.
Well, were there any hiccups?
What were their concerns or problemsyou had during implementation?
Nina?
Deana Bartel (22:11):
Well, I wish I had some big elaborate story for you,
but I'm gonna be very boring.
Receive only implementation.
You know, we chose to partner withcorporate one as our third party
service provider, and it reallywas just such a seamless launch.
We had a couple of challenges, butmost of that was related to changes we
needed to make within our core system.
(22:34):
Nothing specific to the RTPnetwork or the Fed Now network or
really, you know, to corporate one.
So it was really easy.
Greg MacSweeney (22:44):
Melissa, what about on your.
What are some of the commonchallenges that credit unions
have to work through when they'rejoining instant payment rails?
Melissa Ashley (22:52):
Well, I'm thrilled to hear that Dina's experience was that good?
That's what we're going for, right?
We are a certified third partyservice provider, so we've prided
ourselves on trying to make theconnection as simple as possible.
We've partnered with nine cores acrossthe industry, so really helping to
work with those cores ahead of time tomake it easier for the credit unions.
(23:13):
The technical connections is.
Certainly a concern when credit unionsstart to think about immediate payments,
but we try to alleviate that with alot of options for the connectivity.
We work with them one-on-one tofigure out what's the right way to
connect into their infrastructure.
Some credit unions runtheir core in-house.
Some of them run 'em in a data center.
Some of them run them as acollaboration with other credit unions.
(23:37):
So we have multiple ways to connect them.
And then we have our core agnostic,API, flexible system to help them
actually receive the payment messages.
And again, working with the cores aheadof time, trying to work out all of those
kinks to make it as seamless as possible.
We've been able, if we have apre-existing core, and like I said,
we work with nine cores across.
(23:58):
The industry, which cover about 50%of the credit unions, we can get
implementation down to 45 to 60 days.
If we can get, you know, the rightpeople involved and the right core,
we can do it pretty seamlessly.
So credit unions have been very pleasedwith how easy, and I often do hear
from credit unions, this was one of theeasiest implementations that we've done.
(24:19):
So that receive side.
You know, I think through justcreating a more, like I said, the
implementation playbooks a morestreamlined, consistent process.
It helps get over a lot ofthose hurdles for credit unions.
Greg MacSweeney (24:33):
Fantastic.
So I wanna move on to the nexttopic of spending capabilities.
You know, what we've seen on theRTP network, especially in the
last year, 18 months, that the gapbetween when an organization joins
as a receive only to when they.
Send is shorter and sometimes they'redoing both at the same time, but a few
(24:53):
months, maybe six months, eight months.
Let's talk about Randolph Brooks, uh, andyour move to adding send capabilities.
Where are you with that and how did youbuild a business case for, for send?
Deana Bartel (25:04):
Yes.
So as I mentioned earlier, webuilt a separate business case
for the send capability and westarted that process probably.
Midyear last year, and we had totake it to committees and again,
get buy-in from our executive team.
(25:25):
So I would say from a send perspective,it was really focused on the cost and
the risk of those transactions when westarted building that business case.
We had to go back to committee a few timesand it was for very good questions that
were coming from our executive team andI, it was very nice to see how thoughtful
(25:46):
as an organization we were being inapproaching this new ability, right,
and being able to send in real time.
So I think everyone agreedacross the board that it was
a must have member benefit.
But again, it really boileddown to that cost and mitigating
the fraud and the risk.
So without speaking too specificallywith pricing, you know, we had that
(26:11):
increase in a, from going from ana CH transaction to a real time.
And once we identified that thepotential volume that I spoke about
earlier, it really put everythinginto perspective and allowed us to
get the approvals that we needed.
I would've loved to us to already be onSend, but I think most organizations run
(26:32):
into this challenge where we have a lotof really cool things being worked on,
and so it's also reliant on resourcesbeing available for those implementations.
And we should be kicking offour send project here and this
month sometime, so we're excitedto see that come to fruition.
Greg MacSweeney (26:49):
What were some of the technical things you
had to work through for Send?
What are some of the additional thingsyou had to put in place for offering Send?
Deana Bartel (26:56):
One of the things that we are working with corporate one
on is just connecting to some of ourdifferent providers to ensure that we're
seeing all those transactions and we'reevaluating them as they're coming in.
And so that's something we'reworking behind the scenes on.
But other than that, we already had.
All of our tools that we wanted from afraud and risk perspective implemented
(27:22):
in our online and mobile banking.
And so we chose to leverage thosetools that were available to us and
we'll continue to monitor and look fordifferent opportunities to continue to
mitigate any risk that we see pop up.
But I really don't anticipate.
There to be a huge need becauseI think we've done a really good
job on our side of making surethat we have those tools in place.
(27:46):
I think once we really get into fullimplementation of send, there may be
some little intricacies that we haveto work with to update, say maybe like
the transaction types in our, our coresystem or little things like that,
but so far we're not seeing a lot oftechnical changes happening on our side.
Greg MacSweeney (28:08):
Got it.
What are some of the common technicalhurdles that credit unions have
to overcome when they add send?
Melissa Ashley (28:15):
And I think just to more specifically kind of talk
about how we're supporting RandolphBrooks, we have designed our immediate
payment solution to be very holistic.
So we've already got received,we have the Send APIs available
and the request for pay.
So it allows a credit unionto evolve to whatever.
(28:37):
Solutions they wanna evolve to.
So one of the hurdles that's alreadytaken care of is we've technically
connected to their core, so wedon't have to worry about that.
Again, receive is up and running.
That's not an issue.
So now it's just connecting the SendAPIs and exposing those and allowing
them to use their platform fortheir front end user experience with
(29:00):
the backend that we already have.
So we can make it pretty seamlessfrom a. Just speaking more broadly
across all credit unions, that'swhere we're really trying to
work with those user experiences.
You know, the credit union membersare in the home banking, the mobile
banking platforms, that's where they'regoing to have the user experience.
So just like we were coreagnostic, we're front end ag.
(29:25):
And we'll work with any creditunion's front end provider
for those send experiences.
So I think that allows them to knowthey've got a partner that can expand
as they get ready to expand andintegrate to whatever fraud solutions
they might already have in place.
So we don't have a one size.
Fits all.
It's very friendly from the standpointof being able to expand as the credit
(29:47):
union grows and allows them to expand.
One of the other things that they need toconsider beyond the technical piece is the
funding and the liquidity requirements,and so that's one of the products that
we also built to help credit unions.
Manage that 24 7, 365.
So we have that all built out and readyfor credit unions to take advantage of
(30:08):
so that they don't have to, again, likeDina said, you don't have to implement
more staff to manage the 24 7 liquidity.
We can do that on their behalfwith our funding agent solution.
Greg MacSweeney (30:21):
Got it.
Tina, are you takingadvantage of the funding agent
capabilities from corporate one?
Deana Bartel (30:25):
We are, yes.
Greg MacSweeney (30:27):
Yeah, that's one of the, for smaller financial institutions
or even larger ones, like RandolphBrooks, the funding agent is something
that they, you have to think about whenit comes into payments on RTP for sure.
Another thing that Melissa mentionedwas the member experience, either
through the front end, eitherthe mobile app or the web portal.
You know, what are you doing for, youknow, member education at this point,
or planning, I mean, be probably notdoing it yet 'cause it's not ready,
(30:50):
you're not rolled out yet, but what'sin the works there in terms of getting.
Around materials or marketingready for, uh, member education.
Deana Bartel (30:59):
Yes, we anticipate doing a pretty significant member education push
and a staffing education push becausewe know that in order for people to one,
know the functionality is there and.
Two, to actually go and use it.
We need to make sure that our front lineshave that education and understanding
(31:20):
of how the send capability works andhow they can send that transaction.
I think that's one of the things wefocus on internally quite a bit, is
we want our employees at our BFCUusing the different payment channels
that we offer, so that way they canexplain that to our members as well.
(31:41):
I imagine though for the membereducation, we do pretty heavy pushes
through direct mail, email, social media.
We have built out our own, whatwe call move money functionality
within our online and mobile space.
And we've really taken the approachthat we wanna give our members the
(32:02):
option to send money however theychoose, but they don't necessarily
know the rail that it's going down.
We just need to know when youneed it there, how much it is.
And then on the back end we navigatethat so that way it's going down the
best possible payment rail that it can.
So I think it's important for us aswe begin our member education is that
(32:24):
they're, they're aware that we havethe capability to send in real time,
but it's still gonna be supportedthrough our normal Move money channel.
Greg MacSweeney (32:32):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
We're here on a, on aPayments Nerds podcast.
So we're talking Rails and instant A CH.
That's our terminology.
But the members and customers, they don't.
I sent an instant payment or.
I sent an electronic payment.
They don't know if it was a CH orwire or they just know it worked.
So members, they're not gonna need toknow what rail it's on, they're just
(32:54):
gonna need to know that it worked.
So.
Exactly.
So I think we've covered a lot here.
Um, we've covered your businesscase, your moving to send
customer, the member experience.
A bunch of stuff, some ofthe use cases you're seeing.
Is there anything else that we missedor is there any advice you would give
to listeners, especially for othercredit unions who are looking to
(33:15):
start their instant payments journey?
And we start with Melissa first, andthen I'll, uh, give it to Dina Melissa.
Melissa Ashley (33:22):
I think just advice, I think start with receive only.
That is one of the most critical things.
It's the easiest for credit unions todo the lowest risk, the easiest lift.
So start with that and then whenthey're ready to move forward, I
think building that use case forsend, really thinking about how is
it going to help their membership.
(33:44):
Do you have a lot of businessmembers that are demanding this?
And for you to.
Day competitive in the market?
Or is it the consumers?
And like Dina said on their side,helping them move money quicker,
that's a, a great use case for them.
Or a credit union might need internalcapabilities and looking at some of
the operational efficiencies or bettermember experience with funding loans and
(34:05):
how they fund loans for their members.
So I think identifying thatuse case is really critical.
And then, you know, leverageexperience partners.
I think that you can get therefaster if you are being helped by
others who have done it before you.
And so, you know, I, I know that's onething we're really trying to help credit
unions is just have that experience sothat we can leverage that and help them do
(34:28):
what they wanna do as quickly as possible.
Fantastic.
Greg MacSweeney (34:32):
Dina?
Deana Bartel (34:33):
Well, I agree with Melissa, but I would also say do it.
I think the time is now your peers andcompetitors are either offering real-time
payments or they will be soon, and Ithink it's the perfect opportunity to
get in the game and be a part of itbecause it's gonna be really important.
But I, I think, Melissa,your a hundred percent right,
know what your use cases are.
(34:54):
I think one of the most interestingthings that I found was I didn't think
we would have a lot of control on howwe leveraged real-time payments in
the early on, and it really ended upevolving into something where I felt
like I had a lot of control over sayinghow I wanted to use the RTP network and
how we would offer it to our members.
(35:14):
So the use cases, they're endless,but they also will drive what your
organization is seeking to pursue.
Greg MacSweeney (35:22):
I do have one more question.
It's a tradition on this show.
So we call the show Payments nerdsand we always ask our new guests on
the show, you know, a fun question.
You know, what makes you a payments nerd?
So I'm gonna start with Melissa.
What makes you a payments nerd?
Melissa Ashley (35:38):
We are definitely living and breathing this and we've been in the
immediate payments game since the start.
And so if you walk around corporate one,you will see so many people engaged in
real-time payments, immediate payments.
And so it's been very exciting and, andlike I said, we just live and breathe it.
So if you're talking to me, you'reusually talking to me about immediate
(35:59):
payments, which makes me a payment nerd.
Greg MacSweeney (36:02):
Great.
Yep.
Deana Bartel (36:05):
Yeah, so I think at R-B-F-C-U payments is such an
important part of the organization,but for me personally, I have been
doing this for probably 12 years now,and I still get excited about it.
And I think that's what makes mea payments nerd is I just love it.
Greg MacSweeney (36:21):
That's great.
Yep.
Well, here at the clearinghousewe're also payments errors.
We're running payments rails.
Consumers and you know, they don't knowabout it, they just send their payments.
But uh, yeah, we're allpayment nerds here as well.
So it is an exciting time in thepayments world with all of these changes.
So I think that wraps it up for today.
Uh, Dina, thank you for sharingyour story and, and Randolph
Brooks' story about offeringinstant payments over RTP and Fed.
(36:43):
Now I'm Melissa.
Congratulations on theimpressive milestone.
Over a hundred credit unions on,uh, the instant payment rails.
Of which are on RTP 90now, so that's pretty cool.
So on behalf of the clearinghouse andour guest, Dina from Randolph Brooks
and Melissa from Corporate one, I'dlike to thank each of our guests and
listeners for uh, tuning in today.
And if you enjoyed today's episode andyou want to hear more about payments,
(37:05):
you can find the Payments Nerd podcastwherever you subscribe to podcasts.
Simply search for payments nerds in yourpodcast app such as Apple or Spotify.
Thank you and have a great day.
Announcer (37:16):
The clearinghouse is full of payments nerds who just can't wait
to tell you about how the RTP networkhelps us financial institutions create
a faster and smarter experience fortheir corporate and retail customers.
Check out the schedule for online andin-person events@theclearinghouse.org.
Greg MacSweeney (37:34):
You've been listening to Payments Nerds.
To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show
in your favorite podcast player.
Thank you so much for listening.
Until next time.
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