June 8, 2025 • 20 mins
Today, we’ve got the Denmarks in the house, and they’re here to share how they’ve made wholesaling and real estate investing a whole lot less painful. We dive into their journey from corporate life to full-time real estate moguls, and trust me, it ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. They talk about their unique approach to flipping houses using lease options, and let me tell you, it’s pretty genius. Plus, they’re dropping knowledge on how to avoid the whole shiny object syndrome in real estate—seriously, focus is key! Stick around as we unpack their strategies and find out why they’re the go-to couple for real estate tips.
How We Turn Rentals Into $50K Paydays! 🏠
Visit https://www.paynelessflipping.com to learn how to do real estate deals the payneless way!
Diving headfirst into the world of real estate, we chill with the Denmarks—a couple who have been flipping houses since 2009 and are here to spill the beans on how they make wholesaling feel like a walk in the park. They kick things off by sharing their journey, from the days of low-end rentals to their current niche of single-family homes. You know how it goes—everyone’s got a horror story from their early days, and these two are no exception! They talk about the struggles of getting laid off and how it pushed them into the deep end of entrepreneurship. But don’t worry, they didn’t sink; they swam! They’ve crafted a system that lets them help folks transition from renting to owning, and they break down the BRRRR method—buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. It's like a real estate remix that keeps them groovin’!
The Denmarks also chat about their philosophy on staying focused and not getting sidetracked by shiny new trends in real estate. They’re all about mastering their craft in residential properties rather than chasing after multifamily or commercial deals. I mean, who needs distraction when you’re slaying the game with what you know best? They’ve got their eyes on the prize, and it shows. Plus, they’ve got a cool event coming up—the Simple Sexy Flipping Conference—that’s all about teaching others how to find and fund real estate deals without breaking a sweat. Seriously, it’s like the ultimate cheat code for aspiring investors!
So if you’re ready to take a leap into real estate or just want some inspiration to make your wholesaling journey less of a headache, tune in to hear how the Denmarks do it! Their story is packed with honesty, motivation, and a sprinkle of humor that’ll keep you entertained while you learn. You’ll want to grab a notebook, because these nuggets of wisdom are pure gold!
Takeaways:
- Real estate can be a pain, but we strive to make wholesaling as easy as pie.
- The Denmarks have been in the real estate game since 2009, with lots of experience under their belts.
- Staying focused on one niche in real estate is better than chasing shiny objects everywhere.
- Their business model involves helping people transition from renting to owning through lease options.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Denmark
- Tom Kroll
- Regions
- VAS
- Zillow
- Facebook Marketplace
- Craigslist
- Apartments.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
We are live here with thePainless Wholesaling podcast.
If you guys don't know, we'vetried this three times already and
technical, there's technicaldifficulties sometimes.
But I'm glad to have theDenmarks here.
What's going on guys?
What's up, Nathan?
Hey Nathan, thank you forhaving us.
That sounds crystal clear to me.
It sounds good guys.
I'm glad we, we figured it out.
Well, so everybody, if youdon't know the Denmar, we, we originally
(00:32):
met in the Coaching Inc.
Program.
We were with Tom, we are inwith Tom Kroll and I have invited
them onto the PainlessWholesaling podcast where we try
to make wholesaling and realestate investing painless for people
because it can be painful.
I'm sure you all the Denmarkshave some stories about how painful
real estate can be, but ourgoal is to make it painless because
I'm Nathan Payne, that's mygoal in life, is to make things easier
(00:54):
for people, especially in real estate.
So let's talk about, let'stalk about you guys.
So give me a 30 second intro.
There's both of you here.
For people that are listeningto this on the podcast, they don't
see but it looks like you lookvery comfortable being together on
the podcast.
You know, a little interview form.
Well, my name is Ashley Denmark.
I'm Antonio Denmark.
We've been investing in realestate since April of 2009.
(01:18):
We've done everything there isto do when it comes to real estate
except for purchasing multiunits and commercial deals but subject
to, to owner financing, tolease options, fix and flip wholesale
and we, we've done it all.
Wow.
Well, how come not multifamily yet?
(01:39):
Just haven't decided you wantto do that yet or what?
What, what's going on with that?
I, I'll take the blame for that.
We found our niche inresidential and we just diving deep
into it instead of expandingand looking at shiny objects.
Wow.
I like it because that's so true.
I just got off a call with oneof my guys that I work with with
(01:59):
VAS and he's like, look,there's so many different rabbit
holes you can get into or youcan just go, you know, you can just
have shiny object objectsyndrome in real estate.
But it sounds like, I mean youstuck in your single family niche.
That's very impressive.
Yes.
Now I've been trying to getout but Antonio likes to keep me
focused.
Do you think that's a good thing?
That's a good thing.
(02:20):
That's a Good thing.
So tell me about it.
So since 2009, you said?
Right, since 2009.
Does it feel like it's beenthat long?
Absolutely not.
It doesn't.
And for us, we kind of got twocareers when it comes to real estate.
So, like the first six years,we were just buying low end rentals
and rehabbing them.
(02:40):
I was rehabbing them myself, actually.
And Ashley was helpingsometime, but she had a corporate
job.
She worked at regions.
Okay.
But from2015, she got laid off.
Well, I got laid off in 16,but we started our first split in
2015.
Were you worried when you gotlaid off?
Were you really concerned or.
Not really.
All right.
(03:00):
So, Nathan, this was my first year.
2016 was my first year fasting.
I had never fasted before inmy life.
And it was 1st of January andI was fasting.
My pastor kept saying, like,every morning when we would pray
and ask God to open doors foryou that no man can close and close
doors that no man can open.
And it was probably like day13 of the fast.
(03:23):
They call all the corporateleaders into an office and they.
They had the org chart up anda lot of positions didn't have names.
And then they were a few thatactually had names.
Okay.
My position was one of themthat didn't have a name.
And it combined my two team leaders.
So I had two managers thatworked under me, and it combined
(03:45):
all three of our rules into one.
They saved the bank 300million in three years.
And my position was really onthe chopping board.
I called Antonio and told him,listen, it's a good possibility they're
about to lay me off.
And he said, well, can you volunteer?
And I was like, you have to be insane.
(04:07):
I'm not volunteering.
Like, they have to call mebecause I'm not volunteer.
When I.
Before I was able to hang upwith him, I was getting an instant
message from human resourcestelling me to come down.
Oh, no.
So to answer your question,no, we were.
I wasn't scared.
He wasn't scared.
I didn't want real estate full time.
I didn't.
(04:27):
I felt like if.
If we could do enough deals inreal estate, we shouldn't be in.
So this the time, let's go.
Let's give it everything we got.
Ain't no plan B.
There is no plan B.
Plan A is real estate.
Plan B is to make real estate work.
Wow.
And you're like, burn the bridges.
Let's go.
Who cares?
Let's go.
Well, so I'm curious.
(04:49):
You said you didn't Want toget into real estate, Is that right?
I didn't want to go full timeinto real estate.
It was okay for me as a side hustle.
It was okay for me just doingit for fun.
But when it became anobligation, I was nervous.
I was scared because I grew upwhere having a corporate job was
(05:09):
like legendary.
I was the assistant vicepresident of my area, so, so I had
a title.
Even though that title reallydidn't mean anything, looking back,
it meant so much to mementally and I was, I was just mentally
there.
So, like, you put a lot, itseems like from what you're saying,
you put a lot of, you know, alot on having that, that title.
(05:29):
You're saying like you feltreally good about having that secure.
Yeah.
Do you feel more.
How do you feel now?
Now, now that you're 20, 22,do you feel more secure in your business
now than when back in the day?
Looking back, I know thatthere's nothing.
I can't do to generate incomeand that my kids don't have to worry
(05:50):
about someone else controllingour future, controlling what we do,
controlling how they live,because we're ultimately in control.
So tell me about that.
You, you came from a corporatejob to now you are in charge of,
you know, your, your future.
What you make.
Is that, is that weird for younow to say that, like growing up
(06:11):
and thinking you had to neededa secure job?
It's weird now that I'mtalking back, listening to it, but
now it's a norm.
It wasn't weird for me.
I've always been anentrepreneur, ish type of person.
I was the candy guy.
I was the guy club promoter.
So I've always been that typeof guy.
(06:33):
So I would say putting thatand being the leader, I wasn't scared.
And honestly, she followed my lead.
I love it.
I love it.
That's why you're together, right?
You gotta help each other out.
And the reason why I asked youthat a little bit more in depth.
I have a lot of friends thatare, want the more secure route.
So they, they, they've had a job.
And while I've had this onejob doing wholesaling and real estate
(06:55):
investing, I've had a buddywho wanted to secure out and he's
had like five different jobs.
It's just because every jobthat he's had, you know, they, they
lay off.
And it's when you're in sales,I think specifically in a sales position
with tech companies and stuff,they'll chop you down like that.
They don't, they there's noloyalty in my opinion for them to,
to the employees.
And I will second that to the utmost.
(07:16):
My mom went through it.
She worked the job for 20 plusyears and just one day it was.
They laid her off.
And as a young person growingup, it didn't affect me directly,
but indirectly I seen theresults of it and I always told myself
I did not want anybody else tocontrol my future.
Wow, that's awesome.
So what are you doing now?
(07:36):
What does your business looklike now and what you're doing right
now at this time?
So now we're ex flippers whichmeans it's really simple.
We buy a property with birdand then our exit strategy is putting
a lease option ticket buyer inthere and we help them go from running
to owning within six months toa year.
(07:57):
So we'll break it down alittle bit because she was kind of
hot.
So we, and what BRRRR standsfor is we buy the property, we rehab
the property, we rent theproperty, we refinance property and
we repeat the process, ideallypulling our down payment out on the
refinance.
And when we disposition theproperty, AKA sell the property,
(08:20):
we are putting a lease optiontenant in the property and that lease
option tenant gives us anotherrefundable option fee up front.
And we help them buy the housethat they're in for through traditional
financing.
Have you found that selling iton a lease option is better in your
opinion than selling it on acreative financing like doing seller
financing?
(08:40):
Well, you would have to dosubject to Right.
Because you have a mortgage onthe property.
Yes.
So tell me about that.
It's better because for onethere's no realtor fees involved,
they're living in the property.
So probably 9 out of 10 ofthem don't require an inspection
because you've already, youalready discussed or know what's
wrong.
If there's anything wrong.
There shouldn't be much wrongbecause you just rehabbed the property.
(09:02):
Property you are saving whenit comes to short term capital gains
because you've actually holdthe property longer and you can depreciate
some things.
So your win bucket as far aswhat you're netting is a lot higher
than most things and thenyou're getting paid within six months
to a year versus an ownerfinance when you're doing that mortgage
(09:25):
for 30 years, 15 years.
No, you're getting them readyto either go FHA or or conventional
and you're paid immediatelyonce they qualify.
Yeah.
So and you probably wouldn'twant to sell it to them on like a
owner Financing or subject toor whatever.
Because you guys have morecontrol of the asset as well.
When you sell like that, thenyou gotta foreclose on them if they
(09:46):
don't?
Yeah, that's.
That, that's pro.
That is one of the biggestthings compared to lease option and
subject to is the equitableinterest and a lease option.
We keep control of the property.
We keep control of mostlyeverything that's going on.
So when it's.
If they don't execute on theirend, we have to evict.
We don't do a foreclosure.
(10:06):
Way easier.
Think about foreclosureseasier versus evictions.
It's a lot cheaper, faster,and it's a lot easier.
You have a lot of thepotential buyers that are like, well,
they want to control more.
They want to buy it.
Instead of a lease option, doyou have a lot of people that like,
are like, well, if I'm goingto give money, I want to do that
or not really, we don't.
Because everyone pretty muchknows that that's our niche, that's
(10:28):
what we do.
And like, everything is laidout on exactly what that process
looks like before they even get.
And they know that they'recompeting against other people that
want this house.
So being that there's such alarge buyer pool, it's really no
room for negotiations.
What's the typical downpayment you get on a lease option?
So our typical down payment is$5,000, but it really depends on
(10:52):
the price of the house.
Okay.
I can tell you the largestphysical down payment we received
was $40,000.
Great job.
And the largest overall was$10,000 in a house.
Okay.
Wow, that's awesome.
So when you're getting theseproperties, are you closing on them
with traditional financing andthen having to refinance, are you
(11:15):
doing subject to.
Are you doing creative dealswhere you're refinancing out of them?
Like, how do you acquire your deals?
Most.
Mostly we do both.
I was gonna say all of the above.
We do both.
However, we do more hard moneyfinancing than we do subject to or
even a lease option from aseller financing.
(11:36):
So you do a lease option andrefinance out of that?
Well, we'll do a lease option.
We'll do that.
If we did it a lease optionway, we'll do it for five years.
We'll put a lease optiontenant buyer in there and we will
basically help them buy itbefore that.
Five years.
Got it.
Without having to refinance.
So you do a lease option andput your lease it to someone else.
(11:58):
And then make sure that theycan refinance out of it.
Make sure that whoever you'redoing a lease option with, maybe
not to put any down and thenyou collect it down.
Yes.
So you're doing lease options.
That's sweet.
Okay.
Yes.
Is this nationwide?
Just in one state.
How are you doing this?
Right.
It's an Alabama doing it.
You said sorry one more time.
Alabama.
Was that just Alabama right now?
We're currently doing it inAlabama, but we have some coaching
(12:21):
students that are doing it inDetroit and that are doing it in
Florida.
How do you find?
I like this because I actuallyhave some properties I've actually
had to refinance out ofbecause they weren't selling his
flips and I'm selling them.
Well, renting them.
Right.
But how.
How do you find the lease options?
The people that are willing toput something down versus someone
(12:41):
that just wants to rent it.
So Zillow is probably one ofour biggest Facebook marketplace.
Craigslist people are still on Craigslist.
As crazy as that is.
Apartments.com those are ourmain sources of finding leads as
well as just word of mouth.
(13:03):
And one thing I would say isthat that is who we are.
That is what we do.
That is what we.
So we don't do regularrentals, period.
You can't rent a house.
The only thing you can do is alease option.
So that is in all of ourmarketing, that is in all of our
advertising.
So let me ask you this.
So when you put the listingsup, does it just say lease option?
(13:26):
Like lease to own, Is that it?
It says lease to own and thenit'll have the description what it
entails.
And that is a non refundable deposit.
It gives all of theinformation so that there's no guessing
on exactly what it is thatthey're getting into.
If someone's willing to putdown 510 and they maybe have bad
credit or their record doesn'tlook as good, do you.
(13:47):
Are you like, hey, if theyhave money, let's do it.
Or do you have to.
They have to qualify to acertain extent.
So we've developed a tenantbuyer calculator.
And that calculator tells usbasically when they'll be able to
buy.
So it basically takes theirdebt, it takes where their credit
score is, how much they havein collections, how much their DTI
(14:07):
is, and it calculates how soonthey'll be able to buy.
And then we create plans foreach of our tenant buyers so that
there's no guessing on exactlywhat they need to do.
Most of our tenant buyers arecredit challenged or they need to
learn how to save.
So we create that plan to takethem, whether it's from a 5:40 to
(14:27):
a 660 or it's from a 500 to.
Whatever those steps need tobe is what they learn during the
process.
Yeah.
So that seems like you're alsochecking to see if they'll qualify,
right?
You're not going to takesomeone that's like, and still will
never qualify.
Yes, that's a big part of whatwe do.
(14:48):
And lease options, they kindof have a bad stick because the tenants
don't buy.
But because we screen ourtenants good on the front end, we're
not looking for long termlease option tenants.
We are looking for six monthsto a year.
That way there's less room for error.
It's precise, it's quick, andwe can get in and out.
(15:08):
I like that too, because, youknow, if, if they're struggling with
saving money, if you do like afive year lease option, they might
lose their steam.
But if it's like six months ora year, they probably can do it.
Yep, they definitely can.
I like it.
So do you, what do you, do youguys get like double dip on when
you refinance them or whenthey, they refinance you out or they
get the loan?
(15:29):
So when we refinance, wetypically get back our down payment.
So we get back our downpayment so we can do it again.
And then when the tenant buys,we just get the difference between
what our refinance was, howmuch we owe, and the sales price.
Right?
No, but I mean, do you like,when they go get a mortgage when
they qualify, do you doubledip on that?
(15:49):
Do you get money from themortgage lender that got them the
loan?
No, we don't double dip on it.
We're actually, we're not therealtors on the loan, so we don't
double dip on it.
That would, that would be coolthough, right?
Like, I'm sure you guys havethought about, like getting a relationship
with someone that can do themortgage for them and then paying
you out.
So we have someone on ourstaff that is the realtor for those
(16:11):
houses and they get to getthat commission for it.
But see, when, I guess when,when our tenants buy, they're not
refinancing, they are buyingjust like a traditional buyer is.
So if our mortgage is 100 andthey're buying for 150, that 50,000
is our spread.
So there is, and it's that 150is for them.
(16:33):
But don't they need to be able.
If I understand thiscorrectly, so they're basically leasing
the home until they are ableto qualify for a mortgage.
Right.
So they have to actually lookat a mortgage.
So I'm just wondering, likethat mortgage lender that's giving
them the loan, he's making 3%of the mortgage.
Right.
That they.
He's giving them.
I was just wondering if you'reable to make money off of that as
well.
We don't typically make moneyoff of it because the relationship
(16:56):
we have with our main mortgagebroker, he does a lot of work on
the front end for.
So before they can move intothe house, he checks them and there's
really no compensation forthat part.
So we don't force our tenantsto go with him.
But a lot of them go with himbecause the plan is based off what
he sees.
So if we follow his plan, wegive him all that back in because
(17:18):
he trusted us on the front end.
Got it.
Okay.
So you work together.
He helps you make sure, hey,this is a good someone to put in
there.
I'll help them once they need.
So you guys are giving him alot of business?
Oh, a lot.
He loves.
Oh, I'm sure he does.
Because I was just thinking mymind, I'm like, hey, man, I'm sure
you guys could start your ownmortgage company if you wanted or
something like that.
Like, with all the businessyou're probably giving them.
(17:40):
That's a shiny object, Nathan.
Stay away from it.
Gosh, you're right.
See, that's how my mind is.
I'm like, that sounds like agood business.
You guys are staying in that lane.
I love it.
I love it.
Well, hey, look, we got towrap up.
I.
We.
I did have more time set upfor this because.
But you know, technicaldifficulties cut us down.
But I do want to know about anevent you're doing.
(18:00):
Can you tell me about thatbefore we wrap up?
Absolutely.
So we're having the simplesexy flipping conference January
27th and 28th.
It's going to be inBirmingham, Alabama.
You can get the tickets off ofthe eventbrite if you just put the
simple sexy flipping converse.
But it's designed to helpinvestors who are looking to invest
(18:20):
learn how to find a deal, howto fund the deal, how to do deals
without using any of their ownmoney, how to rehab the deal, and
then how to make money.
A minimum three ways on deal.
So the three ways that weteach on making money is making money
from that option fee, makingmoney that the tenant buyer gives,
(18:40):
making money from cash flowand then making money from the ultimate
sale of the property, whichusually generates about two times
to three times more thanyou'll ever get on a simple flip.
So it's the old school flipmethod turned upside down so that
it works in an upside downmarket in a recession.
It's basically a recessionproof plan for flipping.
(19:04):
Sounds sexy.
Like it.
Well, hey, everybody.
How can the Denmarks, how canthey reach out?
How can the painlesswholesaling nation reach out to you
if they need anything?
So we're on Instagram, theDenmarks, we're on Facebook, the
Denmarks, YouTube.
Just reach out to us on any ofthose platforms and we'll be happy
(19:26):
to help and assist Whateverquestions you have, like, don't hesitate
to access.
Our phone number is 205-201-1990.
Is that right?
No, you said that totally.
I said it backwards.
Oh, my God.
205-990-2018.
There you go.
(19:47):
Here we go.
I love it.
All right, well, hey, I'm surewe'll be in communications more as
we network together in Tom's group.
And it's a pleasure having youon here.
It was a pleasure being on.
Thank you, Nathan.
Thank you.
Have a great day.
Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas.
Happy New Year.
See ya.
Bye.
We are live here with thePainless Wholesaling podcast.
If you guys don't know, we'vetried this three times already and
technical, there's technicaldifficulties sometimes.
But I'm glad to have theDenmarks here.
What's going on guys?
What's up, Nathan?
Hey Nathan, thank you forhaving us.
That sounds crystal clear to me.
It sounds good guys.
I'm glad we, we figured it out.
Well, so everybody, if youdon't know the Denmar, we, we originally
(00:32):
met in the Coaching Inc.
Program.
We were with Tom, we are inwith Tom Kroll and I have invited
them onto the PainlessWholesaling podcast where we try
to make wholesaling and realestate investing painless for people
because it can be painful.
I'm sure you all the Denmarkshave some stories about how painful
real estate can be, but ourgoal is to make it painless because
I'm Nathan Payne, that's mygoal in life, is to make things easier
(00:54):
for people, especially in real estate.
So let's talk about, let'stalk about you guys.
So give me a 30 second intro.
There's both of you here.
For people that are listeningto this on the podcast, they don't
see but it looks like you lookvery comfortable being together on
the podcast.
You know, a little interview form.
Well, my name is Ashley Denmark.
I'm Antonio Denmark.
We've been investing in realestate since April of 2009.
(01:18):
We've done everything there isto do when it comes to real estate
except for purchasing multiunits and commercial deals but subject
to, to owner financing, tolease options, fix and flip wholesale
and we, we've done it all.
Wow.
Well, how come not multifamily yet?
(01:39):
Just haven't decided you wantto do that yet or what?
What, what's going on with that?
I, I'll take the blame for that.
We found our niche inresidential and we just diving deep
into it instead of expandingand looking at shiny objects.
Wow.
I like it because that's so true.
I just got off a call with oneof my guys that I work with with
(01:59):
VAS and he's like, look,there's so many different rabbit
holes you can get into or youcan just go, you know, you can just
have shiny object objectsyndrome in real estate.
But it sounds like, I mean youstuck in your single family niche.
That's very impressive.
Yes.
Now I've been trying to getout but Antonio likes to keep me
focused.
Do you think that's a good thing?
That's a good thing.
(02:20):
That's a Good thing.
So tell me about it.
So since 2009, you said?
Right, since 2009.
Does it feel like it's beenthat long?
Absolutely not.
It doesn't.
And for us, we kind of got twocareers when it comes to real estate.
So, like the first six years,we were just buying low end rentals
and rehabbing them.
(02:40):
I was rehabbing them myself, actually.
And Ashley was helpingsometime, but she had a corporate
job.
She worked at regions.
Okay.
But from2015, she got laid off.
Well, I got laid off in 16,but we started our first split in
2015.
Were you worried when you gotlaid off?
Were you really concerned or.
Not really.
All right.
(03:00):
So, Nathan, this was my first year.
2016 was my first year fasting.
I had never fasted before inmy life.
And it was 1st of January andI was fasting.
My pastor kept saying, like,every morning when we would pray
and ask God to open doors foryou that no man can close and close
doors that no man can open.
And it was probably like day13 of the fast.
(03:23):
They call all the corporateleaders into an office and they.
They had the org chart up anda lot of positions didn't have names.
And then they were a few thatactually had names.
Okay.
My position was one of themthat didn't have a name.
And it combined my two team leaders.
So I had two managers thatworked under me, and it combined
(03:45):
all three of our rules into one.
They saved the bank 300million in three years.
And my position was really onthe chopping board.
I called Antonio and told him,listen, it's a good possibility they're
about to lay me off.
And he said, well, can you volunteer?
And I was like, you have to be insane.
(04:07):
I'm not volunteering.
Like, they have to call mebecause I'm not volunteer.
When I.
Before I was able to hang upwith him, I was getting an instant
message from human resourcestelling me to come down.
Oh, no.
So to answer your question,no, we were.
I wasn't scared.
He wasn't scared.
I didn't want real estate full time.
I didn't.
(04:27):
I felt like if.
If we could do enough deals inreal estate, we shouldn't be in.
So this the time, let's go.
Let's give it everything we got.
Ain't no plan B.
There is no plan B.
Plan A is real estate.
Plan B is to make real estate work.
Wow.
And you're like, burn the bridges.
Let's go.
Who cares?
Let's go.
Well, so I'm curious.
(04:49):
You said you didn't Want toget into real estate, Is that right?
I didn't want to go full timeinto real estate.
It was okay for me as a side hustle.
It was okay for me just doingit for fun.
But when it became anobligation, I was nervous.
I was scared because I grew upwhere having a corporate job was
(05:09):
like legendary.
I was the assistant vicepresident of my area, so, so I had
a title.
Even though that title reallydidn't mean anything, looking back,
it meant so much to mementally and I was, I was just mentally
there.
So, like, you put a lot, itseems like from what you're saying,
you put a lot of, you know, alot on having that, that title.
(05:29):
You're saying like you feltreally good about having that secure.
Yeah.
Do you feel more.
How do you feel now?
Now, now that you're 20, 22,do you feel more secure in your business
now than when back in the day?
Looking back, I know thatthere's nothing.
I can't do to generate incomeand that my kids don't have to worry
(05:50):
about someone else controllingour future, controlling what we do,
controlling how they live,because we're ultimately in control.
So tell me about that.
You, you came from a corporatejob to now you are in charge of,
you know, your, your future.
What you make.
Is that, is that weird for younow to say that, like growing up
(06:11):
and thinking you had to neededa secure job?
It's weird now that I'mtalking back, listening to it, but
now it's a norm.
It wasn't weird for me.
I've always been anentrepreneur, ish type of person.
I was the candy guy.
I was the guy club promoter.
So I've always been that typeof guy.
(06:33):
So I would say putting thatand being the leader, I wasn't scared.
And honestly, she followed my lead.
I love it.
I love it.
That's why you're together, right?
You gotta help each other out.
And the reason why I asked youthat a little bit more in depth.
I have a lot of friends thatare, want the more secure route.
So they, they, they've had a job.
And while I've had this onejob doing wholesaling and real estate
(06:55):
investing, I've had a buddywho wanted to secure out and he's
had like five different jobs.
It's just because every jobthat he's had, you know, they, they
lay off.
And it's when you're in sales,I think specifically in a sales position
with tech companies and stuff,they'll chop you down like that.
They don't, they there's noloyalty in my opinion for them to,
to the employees.
And I will second that to the utmost.
(07:16):
My mom went through it.
She worked the job for 20 plusyears and just one day it was.
They laid her off.
And as a young person growingup, it didn't affect me directly,
but indirectly I seen theresults of it and I always told myself
I did not want anybody else tocontrol my future.
Wow, that's awesome.
So what are you doing now?
(07:36):
What does your business looklike now and what you're doing right
now at this time?
So now we're ex flippers whichmeans it's really simple.
We buy a property with birdand then our exit strategy is putting
a lease option ticket buyer inthere and we help them go from running
to owning within six months toa year.
(07:57):
So we'll break it down alittle bit because she was kind of
hot.
So we, and what BRRRR standsfor is we buy the property, we rehab
the property, we rent theproperty, we refinance property and
we repeat the process, ideallypulling our down payment out on the
refinance.
And when we disposition theproperty, AKA sell the property,
(08:20):
we are putting a lease optiontenant in the property and that lease
option tenant gives us anotherrefundable option fee up front.
And we help them buy the housethat they're in for through traditional
financing.
Have you found that selling iton a lease option is better in your
opinion than selling it on acreative financing like doing seller
financing?
(08:40):
Well, you would have to dosubject to Right.
Because you have a mortgage onthe property.
Yes.
So tell me about that.
It's better because for onethere's no realtor fees involved,
they're living in the property.
So probably 9 out of 10 ofthem don't require an inspection
because you've already, youalready discussed or know what's
wrong.
If there's anything wrong.
There shouldn't be much wrongbecause you just rehabbed the property.
(09:02):
Property you are saving whenit comes to short term capital gains
because you've actually holdthe property longer and you can depreciate
some things.
So your win bucket as far aswhat you're netting is a lot higher
than most things and thenyou're getting paid within six months
to a year versus an ownerfinance when you're doing that mortgage
(09:25):
for 30 years, 15 years.
No, you're getting them readyto either go FHA or or conventional
and you're paid immediatelyonce they qualify.
Yeah.
So and you probably wouldn'twant to sell it to them on like a
owner Financing or subject toor whatever.
Because you guys have morecontrol of the asset as well.
When you sell like that, thenyou gotta foreclose on them if they
(09:46):
don't?
Yeah, that's.
That, that's pro.
That is one of the biggestthings compared to lease option and
subject to is the equitableinterest and a lease option.
We keep control of the property.
We keep control of mostlyeverything that's going on.
So when it's.
If they don't execute on theirend, we have to evict.
We don't do a foreclosure.
(10:06):
Way easier.
Think about foreclosureseasier versus evictions.
It's a lot cheaper, faster,and it's a lot easier.
You have a lot of thepotential buyers that are like, well,
they want to control more.
They want to buy it.
Instead of a lease option, doyou have a lot of people that like,
are like, well, if I'm goingto give money, I want to do that
or not really, we don't.
Because everyone pretty muchknows that that's our niche, that's
(10:28):
what we do.
And like, everything is laidout on exactly what that process
looks like before they even get.
And they know that they'recompeting against other people that
want this house.
So being that there's such alarge buyer pool, it's really no
room for negotiations.
What's the typical downpayment you get on a lease option?
So our typical down payment is$5,000, but it really depends on
(10:52):
the price of the house.
Okay.
I can tell you the largestphysical down payment we received
was $40,000.
Great job.
And the largest overall was$10,000 in a house.
Okay.
Wow, that's awesome.
So when you're getting theseproperties, are you closing on them
with traditional financing andthen having to refinance, are you
(11:15):
doing subject to.
Are you doing creative dealswhere you're refinancing out of them?
Like, how do you acquire your deals?
Most.
Mostly we do both.
I was gonna say all of the above.
We do both.
However, we do more hard moneyfinancing than we do subject to or
even a lease option from aseller financing.
(11:36):
So you do a lease option andrefinance out of that?
Well, we'll do a lease option.
We'll do that.
If we did it a lease optionway, we'll do it for five years.
We'll put a lease optiontenant buyer in there and we will
basically help them buy itbefore that.
Five years.
Got it.
Without having to refinance.
So you do a lease option andput your lease it to someone else.
(11:58):
And then make sure that theycan refinance out of it.
Make sure that whoever you'redoing a lease option with, maybe
not to put any down and thenyou collect it down.
Yes.
So you're doing lease options.
That's sweet.
Okay.
Yes.
Is this nationwide?
Just in one state.
How are you doing this?
Right.
It's an Alabama doing it.
You said sorry one more time.
Alabama.
Was that just Alabama right now?
We're currently doing it inAlabama, but we have some coaching
(12:21):
students that are doing it inDetroit and that are doing it in
Florida.
How do you find?
I like this because I actuallyhave some properties I've actually
had to refinance out ofbecause they weren't selling his
flips and I'm selling them.
Well, renting them.
Right.
But how.
How do you find the lease options?
The people that are willing toput something down versus someone
(12:41):
that just wants to rent it.
So Zillow is probably one ofour biggest Facebook marketplace.
Craigslist people are still on Craigslist.
As crazy as that is.
Apartments.com those are ourmain sources of finding leads as
well as just word of mouth.
(13:03):
And one thing I would say isthat that is who we are.
That is what we do.
That is what we.
So we don't do regularrentals, period.
You can't rent a house.
The only thing you can do is alease option.
So that is in all of ourmarketing, that is in all of our
advertising.
So let me ask you this.
So when you put the listingsup, does it just say lease option?
(13:26):
Like lease to own, Is that it?
It says lease to own and thenit'll have the description what it
entails.
And that is a non refundable deposit.
It gives all of theinformation so that there's no guessing
on exactly what it is thatthey're getting into.
If someone's willing to putdown 510 and they maybe have bad
credit or their record doesn'tlook as good, do you.
(13:47):
Are you like, hey, if theyhave money, let's do it.
Or do you have to.
They have to qualify to acertain extent.
So we've developed a tenantbuyer calculator.
And that calculator tells usbasically when they'll be able to
buy.
So it basically takes theirdebt, it takes where their credit
score is, how much they havein collections, how much their DTI
(14:07):
is, and it calculates how soonthey'll be able to buy.
And then we create plans foreach of our tenant buyers so that
there's no guessing on exactlywhat they need to do.
Most of our tenant buyers arecredit challenged or they need to
learn how to save.
So we create that plan to takethem, whether it's from a 5:40 to
(14:27):
a 660 or it's from a 500 to.
Whatever those steps need tobe is what they learn during the
process.
Yeah.
So that seems like you're alsochecking to see if they'll qualify,
right?
You're not going to takesomeone that's like, and still will
never qualify.
Yes, that's a big part of whatwe do.
(14:48):
And lease options, they kindof have a bad stick because the tenants
don't buy.
But because we screen ourtenants good on the front end, we're
not looking for long termlease option tenants.
We are looking for six monthsto a year.
That way there's less room for error.
It's precise, it's quick, andwe can get in and out.
(15:08):
I like that too, because, youknow, if, if they're struggling with
saving money, if you do like afive year lease option, they might
lose their steam.
But if it's like six months ora year, they probably can do it.
Yep, they definitely can.
I like it.
So do you, what do you, do youguys get like double dip on when
you refinance them or whenthey, they refinance you out or they
get the loan?
(15:29):
So when we refinance, wetypically get back our down payment.
So we get back our downpayment so we can do it again.
And then when the tenant buys,we just get the difference between
what our refinance was, howmuch we owe, and the sales price.
Right?
No, but I mean, do you like,when they go get a mortgage when
they qualify, do you doubledip on that?
(15:49):
Do you get money from themortgage lender that got them the
loan?
No, we don't double dip on it.
We're actually, we're not therealtors on the loan, so we don't
double dip on it.
That would, that would be coolthough, right?
Like, I'm sure you guys havethought about, like getting a relationship
with someone that can do themortgage for them and then paying
you out.
So we have someone on ourstaff that is the realtor for those
(16:11):
houses and they get to getthat commission for it.
But see, when, I guess when,when our tenants buy, they're not
refinancing, they are buyingjust like a traditional buyer is.
So if our mortgage is 100 andthey're buying for 150, that 50,000
is our spread.
So there is, and it's that 150is for them.
(16:33):
But don't they need to be able.
If I understand thiscorrectly, so they're basically leasing
the home until they are ableto qualify for a mortgage.
Right.
So they have to actually lookat a mortgage.
So I'm just wondering, likethat mortgage lender that's giving
them the loan, he's making 3%of the mortgage.
Right.
That they.
He's giving them.
I was just wondering if you'reable to make money off of that as
well.
We don't typically make moneyoff of it because the relationship
(16:56):
we have with our main mortgagebroker, he does a lot of work on
the front end for.
So before they can move intothe house, he checks them and there's
really no compensation forthat part.
So we don't force our tenantsto go with him.
But a lot of them go with himbecause the plan is based off what
he sees.
So if we follow his plan, wegive him all that back in because
(17:18):
he trusted us on the front end.
Got it.
Okay.
So you work together.
He helps you make sure, hey,this is a good someone to put in
there.
I'll help them once they need.
So you guys are giving him alot of business?
Oh, a lot.
He loves.
Oh, I'm sure he does.
Because I was just thinking mymind, I'm like, hey, man, I'm sure
you guys could start your ownmortgage company if you wanted or
something like that.
Like, with all the businessyou're probably giving them.
(17:40):
That's a shiny object, Nathan.
Stay away from it.
Gosh, you're right.
See, that's how my mind is.
I'm like, that sounds like agood business.
You guys are staying in that lane.
I love it.
I love it.
Well, hey, look, we got towrap up.
I.
We.
I did have more time set upfor this because.
But you know, technicaldifficulties cut us down.
But I do want to know about anevent you're doing.
(18:00):
Can you tell me about thatbefore we wrap up?
Absolutely.
So we're having the simplesexy flipping conference January
27th and 28th.
It's going to be inBirmingham, Alabama.
You can get the tickets off ofthe eventbrite if you just put the
simple sexy flipping converse.
But it's designed to helpinvestors who are looking to invest
(18:20):
learn how to find a deal, howto fund the deal, how to do deals
without using any of their ownmoney, how to rehab the deal, and
then how to make money.
A minimum three ways on deal.
So the three ways that weteach on making money is making money
from that option fee, makingmoney that the tenant buyer gives,
(18:40):
making money from cash flowand then making money from the ultimate
sale of the property, whichusually generates about two times
to three times more thanyou'll ever get on a simple flip.
So it's the old school flipmethod turned upside down so that
it works in an upside downmarket in a recession.
It's basically a recessionproof plan for flipping.
(19:04):
Sounds sexy.
Like it.
Well, hey, everybody.
How can the Denmarks, how canthey reach out?
How can the painlesswholesaling nation reach out to you
if they need anything?
So we're on Instagram, theDenmarks, we're on Facebook, the
Denmarks, YouTube.
Just reach out to us on any ofthose platforms and we'll be happy
(19:26):
to help and assist Whateverquestions you have, like, don't hesitate
to access.
Our phone number is 205-201-1990.
Is that right?
No, you said that totally.
I said it backwards.
Oh, my God.
205-990-2018.
There you go.
(19:47):
Here we go.
I love it.
All right, well, hey, I'm surewe'll be in communications more as
we network together in Tom's group.
And it's a pleasure having youon here.
It was a pleasure being on.
Thank you, Nathan.
Thank you.
Have a great day.
Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas.
Happy New Year.
See ya.
Bye.
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