February 6, 2024 • 25 mins
Journey with us as we navigate the transformative landscape of PBIS, where we have an illuminating chat with a seasoned high school assistant principal. Discover the profound effects of a well-crafted school-wide matrix, the lighthouse for expected student behavior, and the marvels of positive reinforcement when consistently applied from the classroom to the corridors. We pull back the curtain to reveal the intricate dance between office-managed and classroom-managed behaviors, sharing inside knowledge on creating a unified front in behavior management that resonates throughout the school's culture.
Embark on a deeper exploration of behavior management artistry and the pivotal role of data tracking with us. Uncover the secrets behind the 10-day Rewards system and how class meetings transcend disciplinary actions to become sessions of learning, conflict resolution, and community building. We also highlight the precision of using tools like SWIS and Dojo to follow behavioral patterns like a hawk, ensuring that our interventions are as targeted as they are effective. Our episode's gems are polished insights from visits to exemplary schools like Washington High School, shining examples that showcase a 'can-do' ethos, innovative recognition systems, and the priceless value of every student feeling acknowledged and appreciated.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So welcome back.
This is PBIS Journey to Genius,and I'm Diane Farrell and I'm
Diane Ruff.
So we've been doing a podcastabout PBIS for oh my gosh, for a
couple months now.
This is actually episode 14,and Diane and I decided to just
take a time to just go overthings that have happened so far
(00:57):
.
Maybe you haven't listened toevery podcast and maybe you
don't listen to them in order,or maybe you've had just a
chance to touch on some here andthere, but we thought we would
just go through the highlightsof what we've done so far.
So the very first one we weretalking all about a school-wide
matrix and how important that is.
(01:18):
So what did you think aboutthat when we talked about that,
Diane?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yes, I think that is the place to start.
Really, when you are puttingtogether your PBIS procedures
and just your whole framework,you need to really look at how
you want children, students,high school students, to behave
in the certain areas of thebuilding, come up with what it
(01:43):
looks like, what it feels like,and create that matrix.
So I imagine if you'relistening to this, you are
probably pretty familiar with amatrix, but you want to make
sure that you get a matrix inplace that everybody in the
building can live with teachers,custodians, secretaries,
everybody and then you teachthat to your children.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And we're going to talk a little bit later.
But we actually had a highschool assistant principal on
and she said that one of theirbig revelations was putting that
matrix in the positive, likewhat should students do?
They should not do?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So that's really important and that was kind of
an aha for her at the highschool level Right, focusing on
what you can do, not what youcan't do, and just that little
bit seemed to be a bigturnaround in their high school.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So I thought that was good, we're going to talk about
that again, but if you followus, we also have a Facebook page
called PBIS Journey to Genius.
We do and we also have anInstagram account and we're
putting tips of the week onthose.
So every Tuesday and Thursdaywe're going to put kind of tips
from our podcasts so that maybethat'll lead you towards, you
(02:54):
know, coming back and listeningor you know a highlight out of
the podcast.
So one of the tips that was onthere was having that
school-wide matrix and makingsure that it's consistent
throughout the whole building.
One of our teachers said thatone of her biggest things I
don't know whether Mrs Myroff orwhat one of her biggest things
was the whole building becameconsistent.
(03:15):
That that was one thingRemember when she talked about
that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, because as they grow older and they go through
the different grade levels, youdon't have to keep reteaching
everything.
The students know what isexpected.
Of course we do reteach andremind, but it's like it's not
anything new.
They come into the classroomknowing what is expected.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And that was one of her big things, because if you
listen to that podcast it's agreat one Mrs Myroff, from the
primary to the secondary gradesshe was a second grade teacher
and then moved to a fourth gradeteacher.
But having those younger gradesbeing taught those consistent
matrix behaviors then they wereinstilled in them as they got
over but having that consistencythrough the whole building, she
(03:57):
really liked that.
So that would be our number onehighlight that I would say we
talked about.
The next thing we covered thatwe thought was really important
and has been highlightedthroughout is that teacher they
talk about the office managedbehaviors versus classroom
managed behaviors and Diane,being the office and of that
(04:20):
exactly, can talk a little bitabout how that happened and how
that works.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, the next thing, after creating a squad matrix,
you then need to define all ofthe expected behaviors, and
everybody principals, teacherswe all need to know and define
the misbehaviors.
What do all the misbehaviorslook like and when do you office
manage that or when do youstaff manage that?
(04:48):
And so we've actually just beentweaking ours, sitting down and
making it a little better, sothat when we're talking about
disruptive behavior, what doesthat look like, what is
disruptive behavior and whendoes it go to the office?
So doing a lot of just lookingat the behaviors you're dealing
(05:09):
with and then putting them intothose categories and talking
about in that T-chart, becauseit's also like a flowchart as
well.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
What comes next?
And making sure that all theteachers know.
I mean, I think I am retirednow so I am not here, but I am
still staying up on throughDiane she's helping me staying
up on the PBIS things and theyare changing and they are
evolving and that's good andnothing should be stagnant.
But when we put this alltogether, the big thing, just
(05:41):
like the matrix, was thateveryone was involved in what
was a classroom managed behaviorand what was an office managed
behavior, because I rememberteachers saying, well, we'll
never be able to send them tothe office for anything, whereas
we wanted it to be consistentand not that some teachers would
send them for small things andother teachers would send them
(06:02):
for large things, and that thatwas consistent.
But now Diane is talking aboutthey are tweaking that, which is
important Teachers to keeptweaking that system.
But it's really important thatyou have that and that everybody
knows you really need to haveyour behaviors defined.
If you look at the episode fromBecky Miller she's our assistant
principal she had come fromanother middle school and
(06:25):
remember she was verycomfortable with that system.
At the middle school she hadsaid oh yeah, they had that in
place, but at the elementary wedidn't have that in place.
That wasn't something that wascommon for an elementary.
So whether you're a buildingwho already has one in place
that everybody knows about, oryou're a building like ours that
doesn't, it's still a veryimportant.
(06:45):
That didn't you know?
That's a very important pieceof PBIS.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And so you know we created that probably about
eight years ago, but again weare just reworking it now.
And then we just had theteachers, we have our coaches,
representatives from every gradelevel.
So we had them look at it, andthen we had our big tier one
team take a look at it, and soeverybody seemed to be fine with
it, because again, we didn'tthrow it all away, right right,
(07:13):
just did some tweaking andclarifying so that everybody has
a better understanding.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I was glad about that.
So you can see, the commonthread in both these things is
that it's building wide,building wide and staff have a
say.
Yeah, staff have a say.
That's one of our big takeawaysfrom the beginning of this.
Okay, we're moving on, and thenext thing we wanted to
highlight was ouracknowledgement system.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Now, even that, I'm going to tell you, is a
difference in PBIS, because itused to be called reward system
Used to be called reward system,and we actually did a lot of
you know a lot of rewards, butyou know again, this is another
part of the system that'sevolving, the framework is
evolving to more ofacknowledging students for the
(07:59):
hard work that they're doing,for you know, walking safely
down the hallway, acknowledgingthe actual behavior.
And when you startacknowledging behaviors, whether
it's academic or their behavior, the kids rise to the occasion
and we don't need to reward withtrinkets.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
No, we've talked about that a lot.
Some people put up the Wall Ican't afford PBIS, it's too
expensive.
But we have found thatexperiences are the best rewards
.
Kids they really don't carethat much about those trinkets,
but if they can eat with afriend or tell the joke of the
day, I mean that's a big dealclassroom Privileges.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You know a special seed eat with a teacher.
One of the big popular ones iseat with a teacher.
Kids would love to eat withtheir teacher.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah and that's up to the teacher to help with those
classroom rewards.
But I also wanted, because youknow, we had our the Christine
hunt.
If you can look at that podcast, she really talked about the
10-day Rewards system.
But however you calculate it,you know, maybe you do it every
(09:08):
day, that you, you know,calculate whether they got their
Poprin or their acknowledgementfor that day, and we do it that
they do ten of them Before theyare allowed their reward.
Maybe you do five, maybe you do14, it's not anything set in
stone.
We do ten, but at the end often days, not maybe consecutive,
right ten days then they are Dotheir privilege and whatever
(09:33):
that would be so.
And then there's conferences,sometimes weekly, sometimes by
monthly, sometimes daily, thatyou go over that with them.
So, again, that behavior goal,working on that behavior goal,
that is a big thing, just likeyou work on, like you said,
academic goals right and so youknow that goes with the
(09:54):
acknowledgement system.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So going to number four, just talking about those
are.
Number four point behaviorconferences and relationship
building.
This is where teachers take alittle bit of time.
Some students they don't needto spend much time with other
students they spend a little bitmore time, but just just taking
time to talk to the studentabout how that student wants to
grow and and meet their behaviorgoal.
(10:16):
Some of our teachers are doingacademic goals and Keeping track
of that and then when they domeet their goals every ten days
or so, sometimes it'll be justten days.
Another student will take 30days yeah, it might be 30 days
to get that 10 days.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But you know what you always you never lose it and
you're always and that wasanother tip of the week that I
had on Facebook was thosebehavior goals.
I've been doing a lot ofresearching out there to other
podcasts and things on PBIS andJust articles and things like
that and that behavior goalseems to be a resounding thing.
It comes over and over overagain.
(10:50):
I thought we do.
We do that.
But having every child havetheir behavior goal and then
revisiting that and thenspending that special time with
them.
When we do those behaviorconferences which, like Diane
just said, it can be a minutefor one student, five minutes
for another.
It depends on the need of thestudent at that every day for
the little ones it can be, youknow, by weekly Whatever works
(11:12):
for you.
We don't set that in stone, butthat reads relationship
building and those behaviorconferences.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So that is really big in what I've seen out there
another part of ouracknowledgement system is the
class meetings that's built inthere because that is a great
place to teach all of theexpected behaviors, to also work
out problems that come up youknow to talk about.
One of the things that westruggle with is when is it
(11:39):
appropriate to tell and when isit a tattle.
And you know at the elementarywe have that and those are class
meetings that the teachers haveto help children understand
that.
You know Things like thattelling versus tattling,
building relationships.
So class meetings are reallyimportant.
We also are leader in me schoolso we do a lot of our leader in
(12:02):
me instruction during that time.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
During those class meetings.
And again, we don't maketeachers do them every day,
every week.
We want it twice a month.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Twice a month.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
We feel touching based twice a month.
Some teachers love it so muchthey have it every Monday
morning.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes, they call it their Monday morning meeting.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Right.
I know there's several that dothat, so it's completely up to
you.
It's just the administration isputting that stamp on.
Let's do it twice a month, forsure, and then it can be a
meeting that you've alreadytalked about what you're gonna
do, or it could be a pop-upmeeting that it's just something
happening in the grade level orin your classroom that needs
(12:37):
addressed and needs everybody totalk about.
So class meetings is anotherbig relationship building piece
that we wanna highlight again.
Now, the next one we're gonnado I'm gonna let Diane talk
about, because it's datatracking, but she is our data
queen here and she likes this alot, and I want her to talk
about Swiss a little bit and howshe uses it Well it's really
(12:59):
important to make sure that youare tracking your data for
behavior.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We use Swiss S-W-I-S student something information
system.
I can't remember Mrs.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Miller, remember that I gotta have that right.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Mrs Miller knows it, but you know a lot of you use
Dojo, which I think is anotherway to track behavior.
But again, when you're trackingbehavior you need to make it a
PBIS tracking of behavior.
You need to know the time ofday, the day, the type of
behavior, the antecedent.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Where was that in the building?
Time of yeah, you said time ofday.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, that's what we're talking about, so that as
you begin to look at, you mighthave a lot of referrals coming
out of the cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, a hot spot in the building, so you could take
a look and say, okay, what isactually happening?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
You know what are the kinds of behaviors that we're
seeing.
Another way you can do it isyou can look at a child because
you think, wow, they're comingto the office a lot, what's
happening?
And then we might see that it'sa certain time of day happening
at 1030 every morning or in andaround that.
So you know, this helps us thenbegin to try to solve what's
(14:10):
going on with the student,because that leads into the
Reteaching yeah, because now yousee a specific behavior that's
popping up all the time and thenyou're like okay, this student
needs so you know, just a simplereflection isn't, isn't enough.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
We in it may need to move him into tier two.
You know he needs thatinstruction.
So that data tracking is reallysuper important and we use it
in our PBIS meetings with our,with our coaches and our team to
look at hot spots in thebuilding To students, all kinds
of things.
So if you don't have a programyou like, swiss is a great one.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
It's easy to do and I'm sure there's many out there
the reports and it's just veryeasy to get the information.
Right, but you've got to lookat your data to help you know
how to help the students and youcan compare it year to year.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
You know, like, what happened in February last year,
you know what happened inJanuary, when we know when was
our time of the week, not only,but when was our time of the
year, and what might we need todo to put in place.
I remember a couple years agowe thought we were gonna kind of
lose it in May, remember,because our girls went up so
high and so our team sat downand said we need a school-wide
(15:24):
Acknowledgement system and kindof like a grade-level
competition.
Remember we were doing that forsunshine and it helped our May,
but if we hadn't looked at thatfrom last year and said, why is
our May Getting out of hand?
We wouldn't have said, oh, weneed to be proactive and put
something in place.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
And I will say may does get out of hand, because
students are pretty much done,but so our teachers, we're all
done.
And and then that's when westart we grow weary and we say
we have practiced these routinesand procedures all year long.
They should know better.
How many times have you heardthat they should know better?
And they do know better.
But they see that the adultsare tired and I think a lot of
(16:06):
times they take advantage of us.
So we had to come up with agreat incentive for the whole
building.
And we did and it did reallyhelp.
So, number seven.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
So data tracking is important and that's a highlight
of our podcast.
Our next one is we started tointerview some great schools
that have been doing awesomethings.
We got outside of Minerva andwe're going to continue to do
that.
So please stay tuned, becausewe have other schools lined up
and they're going to be greatpeople.
Because Dinah and I havelearned that we have gone along
(16:37):
this PBIJ journey, going toconferences and going to all
kinds of places trying to findwhat they're doing.
What they're doing and how wecan make it work in our school.
It's not like we just sat hereand thought this all up
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Oh goodness, no, we steal ideas from everybody.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So if we can bring these people in to share their
great ideas, then what's better?
So we went out to WashingtonHigh School, which is Maslin
City Schools, and they've been abronze award winner and Renee
Parr is doing fabulous thingsout there and she's the
assistant principal and she wasvery excited to come on and do a
(17:13):
podcast with us.
So if you haven't gotten thatone yet, it just came out on
Tuesday and it was really greatfor a high school experience.
So Renee started out with justrephrasing some things, didn't
she, diane?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yes, and I really like that.
She said that she, you know,just turning around, the mindset
of this is what we can do, notwhat we can't do, and that
seemed to.
It seems like such a simplething, but it does.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
It was so simple when she said it, but revolutionary
to them.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, yeah, so that was great, you know.
She also talked about theskills that students need to
enter the workforce.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, I like that when she called them soft skills
.
Yeah, that's so important.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So when you're telling them what they need to
do, what will be a good thing todo to be a positive high school
experience, they're going toget that told to them in the
workforce so what they need todo to be successful in the
workforce.
So I really thought she broughtthat up and I really thought
that was a great point for youhigh school people.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yes, I like their acknowledgement system too.
First of all, every staffmember chooses somebody each
month to be the student of themonth and they take their
picture and put it outside theclassroom door and they're
looking.
The teachers are looking forstudents who are practicing.
They're safe, responsible, bekind.
(18:40):
Yeah, they're big rules,whatever your rules are.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
They're big rules, and but it was so cute that she
said kids were excited, not highschool kids, they look for
their pictures, we're lookingfor their pictures and we're
excited.
When they were up there and Ithought that was really cute
because sometimes and we evensaid this in the podcast high
school kids will go I don't care, I don't care, yeah, but they
do care, they do, they do care,they want to be, they want to be
(19:07):
recognized, and so seeing thatpicture was great.
And then they did say at theend of the marking period, if
names hadn't been done, theypulled 40.
I like that.
I did too they kept track of thedata.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So if teachers inadvertently missed kids, you
know, and the kids didn't haveany contract, you know they
didn't have any conductreferrals, then they brought
them out.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
They did.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
So I thought that was really cool.
And then they're, but they'reBell Store.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yes, you know they also are trying to keep kids in
school.
Yeah, so every 21 days they usedto be the attendant, that's
right, they're watching thatattendance and if you didn't
miss school in the 21 days, thenyour name goes in a drawing and
you can receive a bell card.
That does cost them a littlebit of money and they found a
way to to, you know, supportthat with a fundraiser.
But high school kids love thatbecause first of all, if they're
(19:57):
driving they want that $10 gascard.
But even if they're not driving, high school kids love to go
into Bell Store and buy theirand they gave it you bail long
here, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
That's really cute.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So what a what a great incentive for high school.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I loved that.
So if you are a high schoolperson out there or a middle
school person and, like Reneesaid, she thought the same thing
.
This is an elementary thing.
It's not for me that's what shethought.
And look, they've gone to be abroad award and done great
things in their school, so tunein for that podcast.
Like I said, just came out thisTuesday.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Now we have something that's upcoming this Tuesday it
is, but by the time you listento our podcast, you will have
heard from Danielle Hawke.
Yes, she is an elementaryprincipal at.
Malvern Ohio which is actuallyreally close to Minerva, and
they are working very hard ontheir tier one, so do you want
to share a little bit about that?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, danielle is a special friend of ours because
she was a Minerva person.
She was, and then she went toMalvern, which, if you don't
know very much about it, it'sonly about 10 miles from us, so
it's very, very, very close.
But she had done the beginningsof PBS when she was here and
then she went over to Malvernand she really took a hold of
that elementary and she's donesome really great things.
(21:16):
But what I love is that shestarted that relationship pace
with parents.
Yes, so she set this wholelittle meeting and a real
special time with the parents tomake them feel wanted in the
school and that their childrengave them a t-shirt.
We have done similar thingslike that here that she knew
(21:37):
about kind of took over there.
But she also put a littleleader in me into it.
What did she?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
do with the leader.
She has the student leaders,and so there are students that
will meet the new student andgive them a tour of the building
and then meet them on the firstday and help them out, and so
you know again, developing.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Take them through the rules, procedures and things
like that.
I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And uh, and yeah, how good is that.
I mean, that's great for thestudent leaders and then also
the new student coming in.
They've got a friend right away, or two friends right away.
So I think that's really so.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
there's two different kind of, and we like that, you
know, we liked that.
Danielle kind of talked to usabout what she was most proud of
, that she had started, and thenRenee at the high school you
know what she was proud of anddifferent.
But all parts of PBIS, allparts of yeah, all parts.
But Danielle did talk aboutsomething that's near and dear
(22:32):
to Diane and that's consistency,consistency and sustainability.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, because unfortunately, you know, we do
have administrators come and go.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
We have teachers come and go Right.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
So when you are building your framework, you
want to make it sustainable sothat no matter if the principal
leaves or key teachers that havehelped out, it'll continue, and
so that was a big goal forDanielle and she believes that.
You know that is in place nowand she talks about that and how
she even missed, I think, ameeting.
(23:03):
She had to be somewhere else,but you know things continued on
.
There was a meeting that daywithout her.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
So that's really important when you're putting
your PBIS team together, to makesure you have, like we like to
have, coaches at every gradelevel and I'm Alvren, it's a
smaller elementary, I think theyhave one coach, but they have
grade level representatives andthen they have parent components
too and so that they puttogether this team that's gonna
(23:28):
help drive their PBIS, just likewe have one meets monthly, and
that's your sustainability,because it's not just this small
team that could falter ifthere's one person driving it.
You can't have one persondriving it.
You have to have everybodytogether so that if one person
does leave, like theadministrator or the coach, that
(23:49):
there's lots of people on boardwith everything you've done so
far to keep that going.
And she was adamant about doingthat and I thought that was
really great.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I did too and she's able to speak about that.
So, yes, by the time you hearthis podcast, you will have
heard that one, and so that's.
She's got some great advice.
But if you're flipping, aroundpodcasts.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Danielle Hawke will have her name on there and her
picture, and she will be the onewith the elementary, and then
Renee Parr is on there with herpicture and she will be the one
from the high school, and thenwe're getting more schools and
more schools.
So we're gonna go through amiddle school world, another
high school world.
So just keep listening to us asmuch as you can.
(24:29):
Well, I think we've kind ofwrapped up the highlights so far
.
Do you think so, diane?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think so.
We would love to hear from you.
Please email us at PBISjourneytogenius at gmailcom, or
make comments on our Facebookpage or on Instagram.
And I'm Diane Ferrell, I'mDiane Ruff, and thank you for
listening.
We'll see you next time.
الز transportation.
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So welcome back.
This is PBIS Journey to Genius,and I'm Diane Farrell and I'm
Diane Ruff.
So we've been doing a podcastabout PBIS for oh my gosh, for a
couple months now.
This is actually episode 14,and Diane and I decided to just
take a time to just go overthings that have happened so far
(00:57):
.
Maybe you haven't listened toevery podcast and maybe you
don't listen to them in order,or maybe you've had just a
chance to touch on some here andthere, but we thought we would
just go through the highlightsof what we've done so far.
So the very first one we weretalking all about a school-wide
matrix and how important that is.
(01:18):
So what did you think aboutthat when we talked about that,
Diane?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yes, I think that is the place to start.
Really, when you are puttingtogether your PBIS procedures
and just your whole framework,you need to really look at how
you want children, students,high school students, to behave
in the certain areas of thebuilding, come up with what it
(01:43):
looks like, what it feels like,and create that matrix.
So I imagine if you'relistening to this, you are
probably pretty familiar with amatrix, but you want to make
sure that you get a matrix inplace that everybody in the
building can live with teachers,custodians, secretaries,
everybody and then you teachthat to your children.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And we're going to talk a little bit later.
But we actually had a highschool assistant principal on
and she said that one of theirbig revelations was putting that
matrix in the positive, likewhat should students do?
They should not do?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So that's really important and that was kind of
an aha for her at the highschool level Right, focusing on
what you can do, not what youcan't do, and just that little
bit seemed to be a bigturnaround in their high school.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So I thought that was good, we're going to talk about
that again, but if you followus, we also have a Facebook page
called PBIS Journey to Genius.
We do and we also have anInstagram account and we're
putting tips of the week onthose.
So every Tuesday and Thursdaywe're going to put kind of tips
from our podcasts so that maybethat'll lead you towards, you
(02:54):
know, coming back and listeningor you know a highlight out of
the podcast.
So one of the tips that was onthere was having that
school-wide matrix and makingsure that it's consistent
throughout the whole building.
One of our teachers said thatone of her biggest things I
don't know whether Mrs Myroff orwhat one of her biggest things
was the whole building becameconsistent.
(03:15):
That that was one thingRemember when she talked about
that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, because as they grow older and they go through
the different grade levels, youdon't have to keep reteaching
everything.
The students know what isexpected.
Of course we do reteach andremind, but it's like it's not
anything new.
They come into the classroomknowing what is expected.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And that was one of her big things, because if you
listen to that podcast it's agreat one Mrs Myroff, from the
primary to the secondary gradesshe was a second grade teacher
and then moved to a fourth gradeteacher.
But having those younger gradesbeing taught those consistent
matrix behaviors then they wereinstilled in them as they got
over but having that consistencythrough the whole building, she
(03:57):
really liked that.
So that would be our number onehighlight that I would say we
talked about.
The next thing we covered thatwe thought was really important
and has been highlightedthroughout is that teacher they
talk about the office managedbehaviors versus classroom
managed behaviors and Diane,being the office and of that
(04:20):
exactly, can talk a little bitabout how that happened and how
that works.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, the next thing, after creating a squad matrix,
you then need to define all ofthe expected behaviors, and
everybody principals, teacherswe all need to know and define
the misbehaviors.
What do all the misbehaviorslook like and when do you office
manage that or when do youstaff manage that?
(04:48):
And so we've actually just beentweaking ours, sitting down and
making it a little better, sothat when we're talking about
disruptive behavior, what doesthat look like, what is
disruptive behavior and whendoes it go to the office?
So doing a lot of just lookingat the behaviors you're dealing
(05:09):
with and then putting them intothose categories and talking
about in that T-chart, becauseit's also like a flowchart as
well.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
What comes next?
And making sure that all theteachers know.
I mean, I think I am retirednow so I am not here, but I am
still staying up on throughDiane she's helping me staying
up on the PBIS things and theyare changing and they are
evolving and that's good andnothing should be stagnant.
But when we put this alltogether, the big thing, just
(05:41):
like the matrix, was thateveryone was involved in what
was a classroom managed behaviorand what was an office managed
behavior, because I rememberteachers saying, well, we'll
never be able to send them tothe office for anything, whereas
we wanted it to be consistentand not that some teachers would
send them for small things andother teachers would send them
(06:02):
for large things, and that thatwas consistent.
But now Diane is talking aboutthey are tweaking that, which is
important Teachers to keeptweaking that system.
But it's really important thatyou have that and that everybody
knows you really need to haveyour behaviors defined.
If you look at the episode fromBecky Miller she's our assistant
principal she had come fromanother middle school and
(06:25):
remember she was verycomfortable with that system.
At the middle school she hadsaid oh yeah, they had that in
place, but at the elementary wedidn't have that in place.
That wasn't something that wascommon for an elementary.
So whether you're a buildingwho already has one in place
that everybody knows about, oryou're a building like ours that
doesn't, it's still a veryimportant.
(06:45):
That didn't you know?
That's a very important pieceof PBIS.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And so you know we created that probably about
eight years ago, but again weare just reworking it now.
And then we just had theteachers, we have our coaches,
representatives from every gradelevel.
So we had them look at it, andthen we had our big tier one
team take a look at it, and soeverybody seemed to be fine with
it, because again, we didn'tthrow it all away, right right,
(07:13):
just did some tweaking andclarifying so that everybody has
a better understanding.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I was glad about that.
So you can see, the commonthread in both these things is
that it's building wide,building wide and staff have a
say.
Yeah, staff have a say.
That's one of our big takeawaysfrom the beginning of this.
Okay, we're moving on, and thenext thing we wanted to
highlight was ouracknowledgement system.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Now, even that, I'm going to tell you, is a
difference in PBIS, because itused to be called reward system
Used to be called reward system,and we actually did a lot of
you know a lot of rewards, butyou know again, this is another
part of the system that'sevolving, the framework is
evolving to more ofacknowledging students for the
(07:59):
hard work that they're doing,for you know, walking safely
down the hallway, acknowledgingthe actual behavior.
And when you startacknowledging behaviors, whether
it's academic or their behavior, the kids rise to the occasion
and we don't need to reward withtrinkets.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
No, we've talked about that a lot.
Some people put up the Wall Ican't afford PBIS, it's too
expensive.
But we have found thatexperiences are the best rewards
.
Kids they really don't carethat much about those trinkets,
but if they can eat with afriend or tell the joke of the
day, I mean that's a big dealclassroom Privileges.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You know a special seed eat with a teacher.
One of the big popular ones iseat with a teacher.
Kids would love to eat withtheir teacher.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah and that's up to the teacher to help with those
classroom rewards.
But I also wanted, because youknow, we had our the Christine
hunt.
If you can look at that podcast, she really talked about the
10-day Rewards system.
But however you calculate it,you know, maybe you do it every
(09:08):
day, that you, you know,calculate whether they got their
Poprin or their acknowledgementfor that day, and we do it that
they do ten of them Before theyare allowed their reward.
Maybe you do five, maybe you do14, it's not anything set in
stone.
We do ten, but at the end often days, not maybe consecutive,
right ten days then they are Dotheir privilege and whatever
(09:33):
that would be so.
And then there's conferences,sometimes weekly, sometimes by
monthly, sometimes daily, thatyou go over that with them.
So, again, that behavior goal,working on that behavior goal,
that is a big thing, just likeyou work on, like you said,
academic goals right and so youknow that goes with the
(09:54):
acknowledgement system.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So going to number four, just talking about those
are.
Number four point behaviorconferences and relationship
building.
This is where teachers take alittle bit of time.
Some students they don't needto spend much time with other
students they spend a little bitmore time, but just just taking
time to talk to the studentabout how that student wants to
grow and and meet their behaviorgoal.
(10:16):
Some of our teachers are doingacademic goals and Keeping track
of that and then when they domeet their goals every ten days
or so, sometimes it'll be justten days.
Another student will take 30days yeah, it might be 30 days
to get that 10 days.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But you know what you always you never lose it and
you're always and that wasanother tip of the week that I
had on Facebook was thosebehavior goals.
I've been doing a lot ofresearching out there to other
podcasts and things on PBIS andJust articles and things like
that and that behavior goalseems to be a resounding thing.
It comes over and over overagain.
(10:50):
I thought we do.
We do that.
But having every child havetheir behavior goal and then
revisiting that and thenspending that special time with
them.
When we do those behaviorconferences which, like Diane
just said, it can be a minutefor one student, five minutes
for another.
It depends on the need of thestudent at that every day for
the little ones it can be, youknow, by weekly Whatever works
(11:12):
for you.
We don't set that in stone, butthat reads relationship
building and those behaviorconferences.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So that is really big in what I've seen out there
another part of ouracknowledgement system is the
class meetings that's built inthere because that is a great
place to teach all of theexpected behaviors, to also work
out problems that come up youknow to talk about.
One of the things that westruggle with is when is it
(11:39):
appropriate to tell and when isit a tattle.
And you know at the elementarywe have that and those are class
meetings that the teachers haveto help children understand
that.
You know Things like thattelling versus tattling,
building relationships.
So class meetings are reallyimportant.
We also are leader in me schoolso we do a lot of our leader in
(12:02):
me instruction during that time.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
During those class meetings.
And again, we don't maketeachers do them every day,
every week.
We want it twice a month.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Twice a month.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
We feel touching based twice a month.
Some teachers love it so muchthey have it every Monday
morning.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes, they call it their Monday morning meeting.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Right.
I know there's several that dothat, so it's completely up to
you.
It's just the administration isputting that stamp on.
Let's do it twice a month, forsure, and then it can be a
meeting that you've alreadytalked about what you're gonna
do, or it could be a pop-upmeeting that it's just something
happening in the grade level orin your classroom that needs
(12:37):
addressed and needs everybody totalk about.
So class meetings is anotherbig relationship building piece
that we wanna highlight again.
Now, the next one we're gonnado I'm gonna let Diane talk
about, because it's datatracking, but she is our data
queen here and she likes this alot, and I want her to talk
about Swiss a little bit and howshe uses it Well it's really
(12:59):
important to make sure that youare tracking your data for
behavior.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We use Swiss S-W-I-S student something information
system.
I can't remember Mrs.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Miller, remember that I gotta have that right.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Mrs Miller knows it, but you know a lot of you use
Dojo, which I think is anotherway to track behavior.
But again, when you're trackingbehavior you need to make it a
PBIS tracking of behavior.
You need to know the time ofday, the day, the type of
behavior, the antecedent.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Where was that in the building?
Time of yeah, you said time ofday.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, that's what we're talking about, so that as
you begin to look at, you mighthave a lot of referrals coming
out of the cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, a hot spot in the building, so you could take
a look and say, okay, what isactually happening?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
You know what are the kinds of behaviors that we're
seeing.
Another way you can do it isyou can look at a child because
you think, wow, they're comingto the office a lot, what's
happening?
And then we might see that it'sa certain time of day happening
at 1030 every morning or in andaround that.
So you know, this helps us thenbegin to try to solve what's
(14:10):
going on with the student,because that leads into the
Reteaching yeah, because now yousee a specific behavior that's
popping up all the time and thenyou're like okay, this student
needs so you know, just a simplereflection isn't, isn't enough.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
We in it may need to move him into tier two.
You know he needs thatinstruction.
So that data tracking is reallysuper important and we use it
in our PBIS meetings with our,with our coaches and our team to
look at hot spots in thebuilding To students, all kinds
of things.
So if you don't have a programyou like, swiss is a great one.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
It's easy to do and I'm sure there's many out there
the reports and it's just veryeasy to get the information.
Right, but you've got to lookat your data to help you know
how to help the students and youcan compare it year to year.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
You know, like, what happened in February last year,
you know what happened inJanuary, when we know when was
our time of the week, not only,but when was our time of the
year, and what might we need todo to put in place.
I remember a couple years agowe thought we were gonna kind of
lose it in May, remember,because our girls went up so
high and so our team sat downand said we need a school-wide
(15:24):
Acknowledgement system and kindof like a grade-level
competition.
Remember we were doing that forsunshine and it helped our May,
but if we hadn't looked at thatfrom last year and said, why is
our May Getting out of hand?
We wouldn't have said, oh, weneed to be proactive and put
something in place.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
And I will say may does get out of hand, because
students are pretty much done,but so our teachers, we're all
done.
And and then that's when westart we grow weary and we say
we have practiced these routinesand procedures all year long.
They should know better.
How many times have you heardthat they should know better?
And they do know better.
But they see that the adultsare tired and I think a lot of
(16:06):
times they take advantage of us.
So we had to come up with agreat incentive for the whole
building.
And we did and it did reallyhelp.
So, number seven.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
So data tracking is important and that's a highlight
of our podcast.
Our next one is we started tointerview some great schools
that have been doing awesomethings.
We got outside of Minerva andwe're going to continue to do
that.
So please stay tuned, becausewe have other schools lined up
and they're going to be greatpeople.
Because Dinah and I havelearned that we have gone along
(16:37):
this PBIJ journey, going toconferences and going to all
kinds of places trying to findwhat they're doing.
What they're doing and how wecan make it work in our school.
It's not like we just sat hereand thought this all up
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Oh goodness, no, we steal ideas from everybody.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So if we can bring these people in to share their
great ideas, then what's better?
So we went out to WashingtonHigh School, which is Maslin
City Schools, and they've been abronze award winner and Renee
Parr is doing fabulous thingsout there and she's the
assistant principal and she wasvery excited to come on and do a
(17:13):
podcast with us.
So if you haven't gotten thatone yet, it just came out on
Tuesday and it was really greatfor a high school experience.
So Renee started out with justrephrasing some things, didn't
she, diane?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yes, and I really like that.
She said that she, you know,just turning around, the mindset
of this is what we can do, notwhat we can't do, and that
seemed to.
It seems like such a simplething, but it does.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
It was so simple when she said it, but revolutionary
to them.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, yeah, so that was great, you know.
She also talked about theskills that students need to
enter the workforce.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, I like that when she called them soft skills
.
Yeah, that's so important.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So when you're telling them what they need to
do, what will be a good thing todo to be a positive high school
experience, they're going toget that told to them in the
workforce so what they need todo to be successful in the
workforce.
So I really thought she broughtthat up and I really thought
that was a great point for youhigh school people.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yes, I like their acknowledgement system too.
First of all, every staffmember chooses somebody each
month to be the student of themonth and they take their
picture and put it outside theclassroom door and they're
looking.
The teachers are looking forstudents who are practicing.
They're safe, responsible, bekind.
(18:40):
Yeah, they're big rules,whatever your rules are.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
They're big rules, and but it was so cute that she
said kids were excited, not highschool kids, they look for
their pictures, we're lookingfor their pictures and we're
excited.
When they were up there and Ithought that was really cute
because sometimes and we evensaid this in the podcast high
school kids will go I don't care, I don't care, yeah, but they
do care, they do, they do care,they want to be, they want to be
(19:07):
recognized, and so seeing thatpicture was great.
And then they did say at theend of the marking period, if
names hadn't been done, theypulled 40.
I like that.
I did too they kept track of thedata.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So if teachers inadvertently missed kids, you
know, and the kids didn't haveany contract, you know they
didn't have any conductreferrals, then they brought
them out.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
They did.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
So I thought that was really cool.
And then they're, but they'reBell Store.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yes, you know they also are trying to keep kids in
school.
Yeah, so every 21 days they usedto be the attendant, that's
right, they're watching thatattendance and if you didn't
miss school in the 21 days, thenyour name goes in a drawing and
you can receive a bell card.
That does cost them a littlebit of money and they found a
way to to, you know, supportthat with a fundraiser.
But high school kids love thatbecause first of all, if they're
(19:57):
driving they want that $10 gascard.
But even if they're not driving, high school kids love to go
into Bell Store and buy theirand they gave it you bail long
here, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
That's really cute.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So what a what a great incentive for high school.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I loved that.
So if you are a high schoolperson out there or a middle
school person and, like Reneesaid, she thought the same thing
.
This is an elementary thing.
It's not for me that's what shethought.
And look, they've gone to be abroad award and done great
things in their school, so tunein for that podcast.
Like I said, just came out thisTuesday.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Now we have something that's upcoming this Tuesday it
is, but by the time you listento our podcast, you will have
heard from Danielle Hawke.
Yes, she is an elementaryprincipal at.
Malvern Ohio which is actuallyreally close to Minerva, and
they are working very hard ontheir tier one, so do you want
to share a little bit about that?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, danielle is a special friend of ours because
she was a Minerva person.
She was, and then she went toMalvern, which, if you don't
know very much about it, it'sonly about 10 miles from us, so
it's very, very, very close.
But she had done the beginningsof PBS when she was here and
then she went over to Malvernand she really took a hold of
that elementary and she's donesome really great things.
(21:16):
But what I love is that shestarted that relationship pace
with parents.
Yes, so she set this wholelittle meeting and a real
special time with the parents tomake them feel wanted in the
school and that their childrengave them a t-shirt.
We have done similar thingslike that here that she knew
(21:37):
about kind of took over there.
But she also put a littleleader in me into it.
What did she?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
do with the leader.
She has the student leaders,and so there are students that
will meet the new student andgive them a tour of the building
and then meet them on the firstday and help them out, and so
you know again, developing.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Take them through the rules, procedures and things
like that.
I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And uh, and yeah, how good is that.
I mean, that's great for thestudent leaders and then also
the new student coming in.
They've got a friend right away, or two friends right away.
So I think that's really so.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
there's two different kind of, and we like that, you
know, we liked that.
Danielle kind of talked to usabout what she was most proud of
, that she had started, and thenRenee at the high school you
know what she was proud of anddifferent.
But all parts of PBIS, allparts of yeah, all parts.
But Danielle did talk aboutsomething that's near and dear
(22:32):
to Diane and that's consistency,consistency and sustainability.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, because unfortunately, you know, we do
have administrators come and go.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
We have teachers come and go Right.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
So when you are building your framework, you
want to make it sustainable sothat no matter if the principal
leaves or key teachers that havehelped out, it'll continue, and
so that was a big goal forDanielle and she believes that.
You know that is in place nowand she talks about that and how
she even missed, I think, ameeting.
(23:03):
She had to be somewhere else,but you know things continued on
.
There was a meeting that daywithout her.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
So that's really important when you're putting
your PBIS team together, to makesure you have, like we like to
have, coaches at every gradelevel and I'm Alvren, it's a
smaller elementary, I think theyhave one coach, but they have
grade level representatives andthen they have parent components
too and so that they puttogether this team that's gonna
(23:28):
help drive their PBIS, just likewe have one meets monthly, and
that's your sustainability,because it's not just this small
team that could falter ifthere's one person driving it.
You can't have one persondriving it.
You have to have everybodytogether so that if one person
does leave, like theadministrator or the coach, that
(23:49):
there's lots of people on boardwith everything you've done so
far to keep that going.
And she was adamant about doingthat and I thought that was
really great.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I did too and she's able to speak about that.
So, yes, by the time you hearthis podcast, you will have
heard that one, and so that's.
She's got some great advice.
But if you're flipping, aroundpodcasts.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Danielle Hawke will have her name on there and her
picture, and she will be the onewith the elementary, and then
Renee Parr is on there with herpicture and she will be the one
from the high school, and thenwe're getting more schools and
more schools.
So we're gonna go through amiddle school world, another
high school world.
So just keep listening to us asmuch as you can.
(24:29):
Well, I think we've kind ofwrapped up the highlights so far
.
Do you think so, diane?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think so.
We would love to hear from you.
Please email us at PBISjourneytogenius at gmailcom, or
make comments on our Facebookpage or on Instagram.
And I'm Diane Ferrell, I'mDiane Ruff, and thank you for
listening.
We'll see you next time.
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