February 20, 2024 • 26 mins
Embark on a transformative journey with Dianne Ferrell and me, Diane Ruff, as we pull back the curtain on our pioneering PBIS system. Our special guest, educational aide Nicole Sell, lends her expertise, sharing how a simple idea I proposed during my assistant principal interview led to the creation of the Reflection Room—a sanctuary for emotional and behavioral recalibration. We delve into the nuances of managing behaviors through sensory strategies and how even the most restless student can find solace and a path back to focused learning within the walls of this innovative space.
As we traverse the spectrum of elementary education, from kindergarteners to fifth graders, we uncover the art of tailoring communication to support behavioral growth. Hear firsthand accounts of game-based learning that's shifting the paradigm on student engagement and self-management. Nicole's unexpected journey into the field of education and her commitment to nurturing emotional regulation is nothing short of inspiring. Tune in for an episode filled with triumphs, strategies, and heartwarming successes that illustrate the profound impact of thoughtfully implemented behavioral supports in our school community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
This episode is entitled Reflect, reorganize and
Return.
So just a little recap.
I'm here with my good friend,diane Ruff, and I'm Diane
Ferrell and we've workedtogether for many years in the
education system and we have puta lot of effort into our PBIS
Good Behavior Intervention andSupport System and our school
(00:57):
has gotten a lot of awards overthe years.
But now we're sharing thatjourney in a podcast.
So we're doing weekly podcastsentitled PBIS Our Journey to
Genius Diane.
What's this week all about?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So this week we're going to continue to talk about
our Tier 1, and one of ourcomponents of our Tier 1 is
something that we came up withand actually I came up with a
long time ago when I actuallyinterviewed for the assistant
job.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I know when you were telling me about this.
I didn't even know that.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yes, so I was sitting in with a large group of people
and the superintendentinterviewing for the assistant
job and I said what I'd reallylike to have is a reflection
room, a place where, whenchildren need to be removed out
of the classroom, that they cancome down and reflect and just
gather themselves back up.
(01:48):
If they're having a meltdown,it gives them a place to just
get calm again, go over theexpectations and then get back
to the classroom and then thatway, as the assistant principal
and the principal, we can alsowork with those children.
But we don't have severalchildren standing around in the
office waiting to be seen.
(02:08):
We've got a reflection room.
Well, the superintendent reallyliked that idea.
That's awesome.
When I got hired, that was oneof the things we started was a
reflection room.
So we want to talk to you todayabout our reflection room.
It is part of our tier one andwe have with us our educational
aid, miss Nicole South.
(02:30):
So welcome Nicole.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
And I will tell you that it takes a special person
to do this.
So you know it is a person thatis there the first line of
defense.
So Nicole has been a greatperson to work with over the
last couple years and she does agreat job in this job, and so
we're really going to delve intothat and her and what she's
been doing.
(02:52):
So, Nicole, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
Why did you want to become aneducation?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, believe it or not, I did not want to be an
education.
I actually just kind of neededa job.
My youngest was starting schoolagain and I needed some hours
that went around his school.
So I just signed up for thesublist.
I got called right away, gotput in the classroom with a one
(03:20):
on one challenging student andit all just kind of became began
there.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So your first job was in an educational aid in a
second grade classroom, just oneon one with a one particular
student.
That's how you started.
How long did you do that?
I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I did that for the entire year.
It started out as just kind ofa filling in to try to help this
student and it was working andhe was becoming more and more
successful.
I had a great second gradeteacher that was kind of helping
me along and it kind of just Igot hooked, you did, you got
hooked.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
You were a natural, you know, and I think you kind
of found your niche.
Yes, I was working with you,working with kids, and it's
funny because I never thought Iwanted to be a teacher.
I talked about that in anearlier podcast.
That was never on my radarBroadcasting was on my radar.
But it's just funny howsometimes we fall into these
things and we find out that thisis where I'm supposed to be.
(04:18):
So I believe that's true foryou.
This is where you were meant tobe.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So how many years ago was that.
You know, because you, okay,you were that for one year.
How long have you been in thereflection room?
I want to say maybe eight yearsnow.
That's amazing.
And the reflection room, so tostay in it for someone who that
wasn't their lifelong goal to bein education then she had to
have some pretty pretty uniqueexperiences, pretty great
experiences.
(04:42):
So that moves us on to the next, because all of our guests we
say why did you get intoeducation?
And then what made you stay?
So what's your?
What's been your?
Aha is okay, I'm going to, I'mgoing to go to work again
tomorrow.
I'm going to keep coming back.
I'm going to keep coming back.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I think it really happened that first year and
second grade this student hadsome challenging behaviors and a
lot of obstacles to overcomeand I started seeing him succeed
behavior wise and academic wiseand I thought, man, I could
probably do this.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I could probably do this for a little while now and
you liked seeing the growth, thechange.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yes, and you know you create these relationships with
these kids and you just want tosee them succeed, like you are
their, their person.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Oh, that's great, I love it.
So you know, talk a little bitabout let's see your room and
you know just the wholereflection room, like kind of
what is that?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
The reflection room is a interesting space.
It's not, like you would think,some empty study hall room and
I have a lot of, I guess,activities around, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Like Fidget kinds of things are calming, yeah, a lot
of calming tools.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Oh gosh, I have reflection forms.
I have.
They have a beanbag chairalternate seating in there Mood
lighting.
Oh yeah, the mood lighting,that really made a big
difference.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, talk about that a little bit when the Custodian
put that in for you.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Oh, the custodian installed the lights where you
can change Basically moods, butthey're still like white lights,
but you change the demean andand I've known and you're able
to dim it too, so you don't haveto have the bright clinical
lights.
Sometimes kids just need thatmoment to relax and reset and
I've got the place for them.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So we do want to know that this is a detention.
No, and you play music likethat.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yes, I've done a lot of research.
What kind of music kind ofheals and helps calm and reset?
There's actually certain musicfor students on the autism
spectrum and Certain music thathelps with the anger or anxiety
and, believe it or not, I haveseen it work.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So you're like the firstresponder.
And when Diane talked aboutthat, as the principal, you you
want the office to be wherestudents go when the behaviors
are Extreme.
You know that.
But sometimes the officebecomes when all behaviors go
(07:27):
right, and so then that makesthe office not quite to be what
it should be.
So Diane's idea of thereflection room was great,
because because if you get thisperson that can do it, they're
like the first responders,unless it's on your t-shirt that
it is an office behavior and wetalked about that in couple
episodes.
But whenever you look at thisand miss Nicole gets Called to a
(07:52):
room, and when you go there,you're the one that kind of
decides what's gonna happen,like the severity of the
behavior.
So let's, let's imagine thisyou, you've gotten called to a
room I'm sure it happened today.
You get called to a room andyou go there and what do you do
when you get to that room?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Well, a lot of times when I get there, this teacher
already has the conduct referralfilled out, so I don't have to
make a big disruption with theclass.
I quietly asked the student tostep out so we can have a little
talk and we just kind of gofrom there.
I mean, every situation isdifferent.
Sometimes they just need aquick break, do you?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
just stay in the hallway sometimes, or do you
always bring them down to yourroom?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, it sometimes I'll stay in the hallway.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I mean, I like what happens.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, see what happens, See what their demeanor
is.
You know what was what got youoff track here?
What are we working on today?
Sometimes just the quiet walkall the way down the reflection
room kind of gets them startedto Reset and think about what's
going on, and yes, and I'venoticed too.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
A lot of times kids feel like they've been wronged
for whatever reason and thenthat puts them in a little bit
of a fit and the teacher willcall for you.
But you just actually listeningto why they feel?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
they just want to be heard.
Right, that's one of my firstthings I do once I get them in
the room.
Yeah, I just let them lay itout.
Whether it's you know about thesituation that happened or
something that happened on theplayground last month, I just
kind of let them have theirmoments.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And one of the things that Nicole said that is
important.
She does have a piece of papergiven to her by the teacher with
the teacher's story.
So now the teacher doesn't haveto tell that story in front of
the student, in front of otherstudents.
She has written that out, shehas told what her, what she
believes the student has done orrepeatedly done or whatever.
(09:47):
So now miss Nicole has that.
That's really important.
So now she can talk to thestudent in the hallway or bring
them down to her room in herethey're side of the story, as
you say, that needs to be heardand then go from there.
What are, what are sometechniques you do once you get
down there?
You said you had fill out paper, sometimes, sometimes
(10:08):
reflection form.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I wasn't even you listened first of all, a lot of
times after they have unloadedon you and let you know, you
know that they were wronged orthis injustice, and you just
start kind of peeling back thelayers and talk about what the
behavior expectations are inthat classroom or according to
our building wide matrix, andthen you talk to them about,
(10:32):
well, were you doing what theteacher says?
Were you kind of being safe,responsible and respectful?
And a lot of times after we goover it, step by step, they kind
of come back around like ohyeah, that wasn't right.
And then we'll go on and talkabout, okay, what could you have
done instead?
What would be a better choice?
(10:52):
What do we do if this happenstomorrow?
You know how are you gonnahandle it and just kind of talk
it out.
And sometimes that's all theyneed.
But I also have the reflectionsheets which kind of ask the
same thing.
You know, what's yourexpectation?
What did you do to not meet theexpectations?
What are we gonna do in thefuture?
And, most important, do youneed to apologize to anyone?
(11:15):
How did this affect yourclassmates or your teacher?
And a lot of times they reallydo come around.
It's the quiet of the room,it's just a one-on-one attention
thing and a lot of times it'snot repeated.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So we have the, the T-chart, as Diane referred to it
, or the office managed and thestaff managed behavior.
You know the majors and minorswhere we've had all that laid
out.
So when do you you're probablylooking at that when do you
decide that this is bigger thanyou and it needs to come to the
office?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
or you know like Usually it doesn't take long to
decide.
You kind of know right away doyou need principal backup or is
this just a run-of-the-mill,regular behavior that you can
handle on your own?
So usually by the time I leavethe classroom I know whether the
principal needs to be involvedor not.
And you involve the principal,I go ahead and radio them and
(12:11):
yep.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And I will say, working with Nicole, she's very
calm, so she.
It takes a lot for anybody torile, ruffle her feathers.
So if the principal knows thatMs Nicole is calling her, then
it is pretty severe becausebecause she has a lot of
experience at deescalating thesekiddos and getting their
(12:32):
behavior under control and thereflection and everything in the
time and the teaching, becausethat's what she's doing.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And that's what I appreciate you know about.
Pbis is having the majors andminors defined, staff managed,
office managed, and when thestaff feels like, okay, I've
managed this enough, you know, Inow need a little bit of
support, they reach out toNicole, who then you decide
again is this more of a staffmanaged behavior of just
(13:01):
deescalating, getting them backto class?
We record it, we put it in theSwiss, or is this go to the
principal?
This is the next level and I dolike the fact that Nicole
really knows how to judge thatand you don't let your emotions
get in the way of you know ofthose guidelines.
You're a very calm person.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So if you're out there thinking about doing this
yourself and putting areflection room into place,
that's the kind of personalityyou need in that position, one
that is a very calm, doesn't letthe child, you know, get them
excited themselves, and is ableto work as a team.
Nicole is also called into teammeetings.
(13:44):
Whenever we do have PBISmeetings about a student, she
will come and share informationand what she has done with that
student, and that's all reallyimportant.
So this position has beenwonderful in our building and
our PBIS, but it does reallyneed that special person in it
and Nicole's done a really goodjob of doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So while it's a time out place, it's more than just
like a punishment.
Now, it's not a punishment, Ishould say it's more of a time
out and then a reteach.
So how do you juggle?
You'll have a kindergartner andthen a fifth grade and
everybody in between.
How do you handle each grade?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
level, because you don't do the same with the fifth
grader as a kindergartner.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I don't do the same, but in a way I do Like, when it
comes to, you know, stating theexpectations with the fifth
graders, you can pretty much letthem write it out and without
with little help With thekindergartners, I kind of go to
let's draw what you weresupposed to be doing, you know.
And also language you know.
(14:49):
You gotta change your languagefor the kindergartners versus
the fifth graders.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And yeah, and well, I know that you started a little
bit.
If you know anything aboutDiane and I, I retired last year
so I am not in the schoolsystem but still very interested
in what's going on there.
And Diane has started to expandNicole's role, which I think is
just great, and using it notonly as an as needed basis but
(15:18):
for those tier two and tierthree kiddos that need that
teaching tool for whateverbehavior they are struggling
with.
Nicole is starting to become ateaching tool.
So just like we use, you know,title I services to help
reinforce reading, this is aplace to reinforce behavior.
So I think you've done a littlebit of that so far this year,
(15:41):
but working on it more.
What can you say about what?
Where they've had a scheduledtime to come to you and work on
a specific behavior?
How has that?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
gone so far.
I think it's an amazing ideaand I have had several students
who have actually done well withjust a 10, 15 minute like
booster, like behavior boostertype of thing during a certain
part of the day and they getthat one on one attention.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I love that behavior booster.
I'm going to have to use that.
You know, I'm all about rhymingwords when I'm doing this, so
I'm going to use that.
Can I use that?
Yeah, so behavior booster,that's what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And I love that and I make the activities fun.
So they really don't know it'san intervention, they think
they're just getting some extratime out of the classroom and
we'll practice their behaviorgoals.
Or if we have a tier two issueand it's repeated behaviors,
we'll work on that.
Like I had one student who justcould not stop talking out,
(16:38):
just could not.
All you had to do is raise yourhand and and then you can talk.
And she just could not.
And after a couple practices weplayed a bunch of games and she
had to raise her hand beforeanswering and at first it was at
first it was hard and then allof a sudden I don't get that
(16:58):
student anymore for the talkingout and that type of thing that
is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And you know we all use behavior plans for
self-monitoring, but this isteaching the behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes, Teaching the correct behavior and using a
game.
You know kids, I don't thinkthey play board games as much as
when I was growing up, whichwas a long time ago.
We talked about this.
They don't.
But you know, board games teachyou to wait your turn, teach
you to wait and listen and notblurt out.
So just the fact that you wereusing a game and she had to
(17:32):
raise her hand each time, youwere reteaching that behavior.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Right the same with the following directions, and
I'll bring a deck of cards andgive them directions and play
like little mini games.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So if you're out there thinking about this whole
reteaching idea of behavior,which is big into PBS right now,
but you're saying, well, wejust don't have time to do that
and the guidance counselordoesn't have time to do that,
and the principals don't havetime to do that and the teacher
does not have time to do that,the reflection room might be
your place to put that in place.
It's only it's like it's littlebehavior title room.
So another another idea to usethis.
(18:09):
Now the other thing okay, sowe're going away from behavior
and we're going to go to oursensory kits.
Okay, so we have, we are luckyto have a star room in here,
which, if you know what a starroom is, it's a sensory room,
but it is built in to students,iep goals and they have set
(18:30):
times.
So it's not on an as neededbasis, but those kiddos
sometimes need it just on an adneeds as basis, but they can't
go in the star room.
So Nicole also, she works withthose kinds of kids.
So if you have a sensory kid,they just need a minute.
What do you do that?
needs a minute and no star roomor right, no star room, no star
(18:52):
room.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Oh well, I have so many things.
It just depends on the student.
Like what they're.
Usually I find what theirinterest is.
Or back to that music I playwith the certain tones and
megahertz.
I think it's called um.
I have little labrits that youuse your finger with and
sometimes some kids really likethat.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Uh, back to the lights, yes oh, I remember you
using like a Lego building thingwith uh a kiddo the other day
whenever I was here and he lovedto was a physical leg, like it
was on a video thing oh yes,those sensory videos that
sometimes they just like towatch that with a little
(19:37):
aquarium, and then it all brokedown like it was like dominoes
yes, remember that yes, that wasamazing to me and he loved
watching that and that settledhim down.
Yeah, they don't even know that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
They didn't even know it themselves down and before
you know, you just kind of seelike their face kind of relax
again and their brow is unfurland they're, you know, starting
to come back to the happy sideof school and so there's another
use for the reflection roomthere is yes, so, um, I don't
(20:08):
know.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I know that I'm trying to think what else we
want to cover here.
I wanted to talk a little bitabout the Swiss.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you bring that up, diane, because you, you and
Nicole, work together with who'sgoing to input what swiss data
and how it's going to be used atthe pbs meeting, staff meetings
yes, so in our building, uh,teachers do not enter into swiss
.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Um, we have them.
Give the write-ups to Nicoleand the principals can do it.
But really, nicole handles allof that for us and she will
enter in, whether it is staffmanaged or office managed.
And then, um, you also reallylike you enjoy data.
Oh, this is my favorite part ofso.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about just the data that
(20:49):
swiss gives us?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
oh, the swiss data is amazing.
It's one of my favorite things,um, if I deal with the students
, usually I'm the one thatenters it, whether it's a major
or minor, but it tells you likewhat happened when it happened,
where it happened, and it kindof gives you like a little
timeline.
You can kind of see, oh, lookat one o'clock, this student is
(21:09):
really acting up.
What's going on at one o'clocksometimes it's math and and you
can just kind of go off of theswiss data and help these kids,
predict these kids and figureout how to.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I will say as a school counselor before Nicole
would always give us theprintouts right so that was
super nice because that was so.
If she would see a studentduring the day Diane might not
know it because it didn't cometo her, I wouldn't know it as
the school counselor but Nicolewould print off the printouts,
put them in our mailboxes andthen now there's communication
(21:45):
like we knew.
So now nor we wouldn't doanything with that if, if Nicole
had settled it.
But now, if you start seeingthat that same student coming to
her over and over again, thenyou might need to students on
everyone's radar, yeah then youneed to talk to Nicole, say, hey
, is this something thatguidance counselor needs to get
involved in that?
you know the principal need.
Do we need to have a meeting onthem?
(22:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
so it's that communication piece that was so
wonderful well, and getting backto what you were saying, like
if it's math time, you know thattells us so much, because then
we can talk to the teacher aboutmaybe, what can we do a little
bit different.
Can we do some front loading,because we know that it's going
to set the child off.
So we we need to pay attentionto the data all the time, and I
(22:30):
appreciate the fact that you'rewatching that, because you bring
it to our attention when youstart to really see something
skyrocket, whether it be youknow they're coming down here
all the time or they're spikingat one o'clock.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah right, that's the great thing about swiss is
it's the individual student.
It can show me what you've beendoing since kindergarten and
you know where your problemplaces are some kids it's just
the playground, because it'ssuper fun out there, and they
just want to be rough and toughand I mean, it's just, it's an
amazing system.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I'm not successful without you're the one that
prints out those reports fordiam, for staff meetings and for
monthly PBIS meetings too yes,and I love watching the numbers
go down in behaviors, becausewe've been seeing that recently
we have a big drop in thenumbers compared to like the
fault the previous years.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
That's.
Another thing about swiss isyou can compare it to your
previous years.
You can pretty much.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, so that that is so important, so to have
someone that's like a data nerdlike.
Nicole, and then one that willhelp take the the responsibility
off the principles to enter,you know, because that can watch
the data and watch the data andgive it to them.
Well, I guess the last thingwe're talking about today is, if
(23:44):
you saw a school that wanted tostart, that they listened to
our podcast and they go.
I want to do this.
What would be the first thingyou would say to them, like a
tip or oh.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The first thing you have to have your systems in
place.
I was fortunate enough that wehad all the systems in place.
I just kind of had to plug andgo, just follow the PBIS, follow
the school matrix.
And secondly, which is probablyjust as important as the
systems, is finding the rightperson, because it's it's not an
easy job.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
and you have to wear on you.
Yeah, you know.
So you're right.
Yes, Finding the right person.
And then you know the schoolhaving that tier one system in
place, with the majors andminors defined.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, and absolutely those majors and minors have to
be defined, because I remember,even when we started the
reflection room and then westarted the, they were like well
, are we never allowed to callthe reflection?
When do we call the reflectionroom?
When are we?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
allowed to call the reflection room.
That's true.
We started the reflection roombefore we had our procedures in
place.
Yes, do you remember that?
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And then when they were like, oh, now we're never
going to be allowed to call thereflection room and we were like
, no, but here are the behaviorsthat make that call necessary
and here are they not.
So, having that in place andthe fact that you know.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Nicole said the procedures were already in place
.
So our teachers had beenpracticing with the children all
the time the expectations, howyou behave in the cafeteria,
walking down the hallway, all ofthose things.
So by the time you got intothat role we had worked out all
those bugs and so then it madeit much easier.
But if you're starting areflection room, you really want
(25:18):
to have your children trainedfirst.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Absolutely, and all those procedures set already and
your office manage all that it.
Those would be the big thingsyou want to get started.
But I will tell you, areflection room is amazing,
amazing if it's done correctly.
And me as the guidancecounselor, it was amazing for me
, and I know Diana's principal,it was amazing for her.
(25:43):
Well, I think that's all wehave today for this week's
episode.
Thank you for having me.
Oh my gosh, we've been soblessed to have you today, and
this is our reflect, reorganizeand return episode.
I'm Diane Farrell.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And I'm Diane Ruff.
Thank you so much for listeningtoday.
Please email us with anyquestions at PBIS journey to
genius at gmailcom, and also weare on Facebook and Instagram,
so just look for journey PBIS,journey to genius and you will
find us there.
We'd love to see your comments.
Thank you for listening.
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
This episode is entitled Reflect, reorganize and
Return.
So just a little recap.
I'm here with my good friend,diane Ruff, and I'm Diane
Ferrell and we've workedtogether for many years in the
education system and we have puta lot of effort into our PBIS
Good Behavior Intervention andSupport System and our school
(00:57):
has gotten a lot of awards overthe years.
But now we're sharing thatjourney in a podcast.
So we're doing weekly podcastsentitled PBIS Our Journey to
Genius Diane.
What's this week all about?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So this week we're going to continue to talk about
our Tier 1, and one of ourcomponents of our Tier 1 is
something that we came up withand actually I came up with a
long time ago when I actuallyinterviewed for the assistant
job.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I know when you were telling me about this.
I didn't even know that.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yes, so I was sitting in with a large group of people
and the superintendentinterviewing for the assistant
job and I said what I'd reallylike to have is a reflection
room, a place where, whenchildren need to be removed out
of the classroom, that they cancome down and reflect and just
gather themselves back up.
(01:48):
If they're having a meltdown,it gives them a place to just
get calm again, go over theexpectations and then get back
to the classroom and then thatway, as the assistant principal
and the principal, we can alsowork with those children.
But we don't have severalchildren standing around in the
office waiting to be seen.
(02:08):
We've got a reflection room.
Well, the superintendent reallyliked that idea.
That's awesome.
When I got hired, that was oneof the things we started was a
reflection room.
So we want to talk to you todayabout our reflection room.
It is part of our tier one andwe have with us our educational
aid, miss Nicole South.
(02:30):
So welcome Nicole.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
And I will tell you that it takes a special person
to do this.
So you know it is a person thatis there the first line of
defense.
So Nicole has been a greatperson to work with over the
last couple years and she does agreat job in this job, and so
we're really going to delve intothat and her and what she's
been doing.
(02:52):
So, Nicole, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
Why did you want to become aneducation?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, believe it or not, I did not want to be an
education.
I actually just kind of neededa job.
My youngest was starting schoolagain and I needed some hours
that went around his school.
So I just signed up for thesublist.
I got called right away, gotput in the classroom with a one
(03:20):
on one challenging student andit all just kind of became began
there.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So your first job was in an educational aid in a
second grade classroom, just oneon one with a one particular
student.
That's how you started.
How long did you do that?
I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I did that for the entire year.
It started out as just kind ofa filling in to try to help this
student and it was working andhe was becoming more and more
successful.
I had a great second gradeteacher that was kind of helping
me along and it kind of just Igot hooked, you did, you got
hooked.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
You were a natural, you know, and I think you kind
of found your niche.
Yes, I was working with you,working with kids, and it's
funny because I never thought Iwanted to be a teacher.
I talked about that in anearlier podcast.
That was never on my radarBroadcasting was on my radar.
But it's just funny howsometimes we fall into these
things and we find out that thisis where I'm supposed to be.
(04:18):
So I believe that's true foryou.
This is where you were meant tobe.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So how many years ago was that.
You know, because you, okay,you were that for one year.
How long have you been in thereflection room?
I want to say maybe eight yearsnow.
That's amazing.
And the reflection room, so tostay in it for someone who that
wasn't their lifelong goal to bein education then she had to
have some pretty pretty uniqueexperiences, pretty great
experiences.
(04:42):
So that moves us on to the next, because all of our guests we
say why did you get intoeducation?
And then what made you stay?
So what's your?
What's been your?
Aha is okay, I'm going to, I'mgoing to go to work again
tomorrow.
I'm going to keep coming back.
I'm going to keep coming back.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I think it really happened that first year and
second grade this student hadsome challenging behaviors and a
lot of obstacles to overcomeand I started seeing him succeed
behavior wise and academic wiseand I thought, man, I could
probably do this.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I could probably do this for a little while now and
you liked seeing the growth, thechange.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yes, and you know you create these relationships with
these kids and you just want tosee them succeed, like you are
their, their person.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Oh, that's great, I love it.
So you know, talk a little bitabout let's see your room and
you know just the wholereflection room, like kind of
what is that?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
The reflection room is a interesting space.
It's not, like you would think,some empty study hall room and
I have a lot of, I guess,activities around, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Like Fidget kinds of things are calming, yeah, a lot
of calming tools.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Oh gosh, I have reflection forms.
I have.
They have a beanbag chairalternate seating in there Mood
lighting.
Oh yeah, the mood lighting,that really made a big
difference.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, talk about that a little bit when the Custodian
put that in for you.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Oh, the custodian installed the lights where you
can change Basically moods, butthey're still like white lights,
but you change the demean andand I've known and you're able
to dim it too, so you don't haveto have the bright clinical
lights.
Sometimes kids just need thatmoment to relax and reset and
I've got the place for them.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So we do want to know that this is a detention.
No, and you play music likethat.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yes, I've done a lot of research.
What kind of music kind ofheals and helps calm and reset?
There's actually certain musicfor students on the autism
spectrum and Certain music thathelps with the anger or anxiety
and, believe it or not, I haveseen it work.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So you're like the firstresponder.
And when Diane talked aboutthat, as the principal, you you
want the office to be wherestudents go when the behaviors
are Extreme.
You know that.
But sometimes the officebecomes when all behaviors go
(07:27):
right, and so then that makesthe office not quite to be what
it should be.
So Diane's idea of thereflection room was great,
because because if you get thisperson that can do it, they're
like the first responders,unless it's on your t-shirt that
it is an office behavior and wetalked about that in couple
episodes.
But whenever you look at thisand miss Nicole gets Called to a
(07:52):
room, and when you go there,you're the one that kind of
decides what's gonna happen,like the severity of the
behavior.
So let's, let's imagine thisyou, you've gotten called to a
room I'm sure it happened today.
You get called to a room andyou go there and what do you do
when you get to that room?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Well, a lot of times when I get there, this teacher
already has the conduct referralfilled out, so I don't have to
make a big disruption with theclass.
I quietly asked the student tostep out so we can have a little
talk and we just kind of gofrom there.
I mean, every situation isdifferent.
Sometimes they just need aquick break, do you?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
just stay in the hallway sometimes, or do you
always bring them down to yourroom?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, it sometimes I'll stay in the hallway.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I mean, I like what happens.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, see what happens, See what their demeanor
is.
You know what was what got youoff track here?
What are we working on today?
Sometimes just the quiet walkall the way down the reflection
room kind of gets them startedto Reset and think about what's
going on, and yes, and I'venoticed too.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
A lot of times kids feel like they've been wronged
for whatever reason and thenthat puts them in a little bit
of a fit and the teacher willcall for you.
But you just actually listeningto why they feel?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
they just want to be heard.
Right, that's one of my firstthings I do once I get them in
the room.
Yeah, I just let them lay itout.
Whether it's you know about thesituation that happened or
something that happened on theplayground last month, I just
kind of let them have theirmoments.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And one of the things that Nicole said that is
important.
She does have a piece of papergiven to her by the teacher with
the teacher's story.
So now the teacher doesn't haveto tell that story in front of
the student, in front of otherstudents.
She has written that out, shehas told what her, what she
believes the student has done orrepeatedly done or whatever.
(09:47):
So now miss Nicole has that.
That's really important.
So now she can talk to thestudent in the hallway or bring
them down to her room in herethey're side of the story, as
you say, that needs to be heardand then go from there.
What are, what are sometechniques you do once you get
down there?
You said you had fill out paper, sometimes, sometimes
(10:08):
reflection form.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I wasn't even you listened first of all, a lot of
times after they have unloadedon you and let you know, you
know that they were wronged orthis injustice, and you just
start kind of peeling back thelayers and talk about what the
behavior expectations are inthat classroom or according to
our building wide matrix, andthen you talk to them about,
(10:32):
well, were you doing what theteacher says?
Were you kind of being safe,responsible and respectful?
And a lot of times after we goover it, step by step, they kind
of come back around like ohyeah, that wasn't right.
And then we'll go on and talkabout, okay, what could you have
done instead?
What would be a better choice?
(10:52):
What do we do if this happenstomorrow?
You know how are you gonnahandle it and just kind of talk
it out.
And sometimes that's all theyneed.
But I also have the reflectionsheets which kind of ask the
same thing.
You know, what's yourexpectation?
What did you do to not meet theexpectations?
What are we gonna do in thefuture?
And, most important, do youneed to apologize to anyone?
(11:15):
How did this affect yourclassmates or your teacher?
And a lot of times they reallydo come around.
It's the quiet of the room,it's just a one-on-one attention
thing and a lot of times it'snot repeated.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So we have the, the T-chart, as Diane referred to it
, or the office managed and thestaff managed behavior.
You know the majors and minorswhere we've had all that laid
out.
So when do you you're probablylooking at that when do you
decide that this is bigger thanyou and it needs to come to the
office?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
or you know like Usually it doesn't take long to
decide.
You kind of know right away doyou need principal backup or is
this just a run-of-the-mill,regular behavior that you can
handle on your own?
So usually by the time I leavethe classroom I know whether the
principal needs to be involvedor not.
And you involve the principal,I go ahead and radio them and
(12:11):
yep.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And I will say, working with Nicole, she's very
calm, so she.
It takes a lot for anybody torile, ruffle her feathers.
So if the principal knows thatMs Nicole is calling her, then
it is pretty severe becausebecause she has a lot of
experience at deescalating thesekiddos and getting their
(12:32):
behavior under control and thereflection and everything in the
time and the teaching, becausethat's what she's doing.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And that's what I appreciate you know about.
Pbis is having the majors andminors defined, staff managed,
office managed, and when thestaff feels like, okay, I've
managed this enough, you know, Inow need a little bit of
support, they reach out toNicole, who then you decide
again is this more of a staffmanaged behavior of just
(13:01):
deescalating, getting them backto class?
We record it, we put it in theSwiss, or is this go to the
principal?
This is the next level and I dolike the fact that Nicole
really knows how to judge thatand you don't let your emotions
get in the way of you know ofthose guidelines.
You're a very calm person.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So if you're out there thinking about doing this
yourself and putting areflection room into place,
that's the kind of personalityyou need in that position, one
that is a very calm, doesn't letthe child, you know, get them
excited themselves, and is ableto work as a team.
Nicole is also called into teammeetings.
(13:44):
Whenever we do have PBISmeetings about a student, she
will come and share informationand what she has done with that
student, and that's all reallyimportant.
So this position has beenwonderful in our building and
our PBIS, but it does reallyneed that special person in it
and Nicole's done a really goodjob of doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So while it's a time out place, it's more than just
like a punishment.
Now, it's not a punishment, Ishould say it's more of a time
out and then a reteach.
So how do you juggle?
You'll have a kindergartner andthen a fifth grade and
everybody in between.
How do you handle each grade?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
level, because you don't do the same with the fifth
grader as a kindergartner.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I don't do the same, but in a way I do Like, when it
comes to, you know, stating theexpectations with the fifth
graders, you can pretty much letthem write it out and without
with little help With thekindergartners, I kind of go to
let's draw what you weresupposed to be doing, you know.
And also language you know.
(14:49):
You gotta change your languagefor the kindergartners versus
the fifth graders.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And yeah, and well, I know that you started a little
bit.
If you know anything aboutDiane and I, I retired last year
so I am not in the schoolsystem but still very interested
in what's going on there.
And Diane has started to expandNicole's role, which I think is
just great, and using it notonly as an as needed basis but
(15:18):
for those tier two and tierthree kiddos that need that
teaching tool for whateverbehavior they are struggling
with.
Nicole is starting to become ateaching tool.
So just like we use, you know,title I services to help
reinforce reading, this is aplace to reinforce behavior.
So I think you've done a littlebit of that so far this year,
(15:41):
but working on it more.
What can you say about what?
Where they've had a scheduledtime to come to you and work on
a specific behavior?
How has that?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
gone so far.
I think it's an amazing ideaand I have had several students
who have actually done well withjust a 10, 15 minute like
booster, like behavior boostertype of thing during a certain
part of the day and they getthat one on one attention.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I love that behavior booster.
I'm going to have to use that.
You know, I'm all about rhymingwords when I'm doing this, so
I'm going to use that.
Can I use that?
Yeah, so behavior booster,that's what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And I love that and I make the activities fun.
So they really don't know it'san intervention, they think
they're just getting some extratime out of the classroom and
we'll practice their behaviorgoals.
Or if we have a tier two issueand it's repeated behaviors,
we'll work on that.
Like I had one student who justcould not stop talking out,
(16:38):
just could not.
All you had to do is raise yourhand and and then you can talk.
And she just could not.
And after a couple practices weplayed a bunch of games and she
had to raise her hand beforeanswering and at first it was at
first it was hard and then allof a sudden I don't get that
(16:58):
student anymore for the talkingout and that type of thing that
is so amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And you know we all use behavior plans for
self-monitoring, but this isteaching the behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes, Teaching the correct behavior and using a
game.
You know kids, I don't thinkthey play board games as much as
when I was growing up, whichwas a long time ago.
We talked about this.
They don't.
But you know, board games teachyou to wait your turn, teach
you to wait and listen and notblurt out.
So just the fact that you wereusing a game and she had to
(17:32):
raise her hand each time, youwere reteaching that behavior.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Right the same with the following directions, and
I'll bring a deck of cards andgive them directions and play
like little mini games.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So if you're out there thinking about this whole
reteaching idea of behavior,which is big into PBS right now,
but you're saying, well, wejust don't have time to do that
and the guidance counselordoesn't have time to do that,
and the principals don't havetime to do that and the teacher
does not have time to do that,the reflection room might be
your place to put that in place.
It's only it's like it's littlebehavior title room.
So another another idea to usethis.
(18:09):
Now the other thing okay, sowe're going away from behavior
and we're going to go to oursensory kits.
Okay, so we have, we are luckyto have a star room in here,
which, if you know what a starroom is, it's a sensory room,
but it is built in to students,iep goals and they have set
(18:30):
times.
So it's not on an as neededbasis, but those kiddos
sometimes need it just on an adneeds as basis, but they can't
go in the star room.
So Nicole also, she works withthose kinds of kids.
So if you have a sensory kid,they just need a minute.
What do you do that?
needs a minute and no star roomor right, no star room, no star
(18:52):
room.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Oh well, I have so many things.
It just depends on the student.
Like what they're.
Usually I find what theirinterest is.
Or back to that music I playwith the certain tones and
megahertz.
I think it's called um.
I have little labrits that youuse your finger with and
sometimes some kids really likethat.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Uh, back to the lights, yes oh, I remember you
using like a Lego building thingwith uh a kiddo the other day
whenever I was here and he lovedto was a physical leg, like it
was on a video thing oh yes,those sensory videos that
sometimes they just like towatch that with a little
(19:37):
aquarium, and then it all brokedown like it was like dominoes
yes, remember that yes, that wasamazing to me and he loved
watching that and that settledhim down.
Yeah, they don't even know that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
They didn't even know it themselves down and before
you know, you just kind of seelike their face kind of relax
again and their brow is unfurland they're, you know, starting
to come back to the happy sideof school and so there's another
use for the reflection roomthere is yes, so, um, I don't
(20:08):
know.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I know that I'm trying to think what else we
want to cover here.
I wanted to talk a little bitabout the Swiss.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you bring that up, diane, because you, you and
Nicole, work together with who'sgoing to input what swiss data
and how it's going to be used atthe pbs meeting, staff meetings
yes, so in our building, uh,teachers do not enter into swiss
.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Um, we have them.
Give the write-ups to Nicoleand the principals can do it.
But really, nicole handles allof that for us and she will
enter in, whether it is staffmanaged or office managed.
And then, um, you also reallylike you enjoy data.
Oh, this is my favorite part ofso.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about just the data that
(20:49):
swiss gives us?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
oh, the swiss data is amazing.
It's one of my favorite things,um, if I deal with the students
, usually I'm the one thatenters it, whether it's a major
or minor, but it tells you likewhat happened when it happened,
where it happened, and it kindof gives you like a little
timeline.
You can kind of see, oh, lookat one o'clock, this student is
(21:09):
really acting up.
What's going on at one o'clocksometimes it's math and and you
can just kind of go off of theswiss data and help these kids,
predict these kids and figureout how to.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I will say as a school counselor before Nicole
would always give us theprintouts right so that was
super nice because that was so.
If she would see a studentduring the day Diane might not
know it because it didn't cometo her, I wouldn't know it as
the school counselor but Nicolewould print off the printouts,
put them in our mailboxes andthen now there's communication
(21:45):
like we knew.
So now nor we wouldn't doanything with that if, if Nicole
had settled it.
But now, if you start seeingthat that same student coming to
her over and over again, thenyou might need to students on
everyone's radar, yeah then youneed to talk to Nicole, say, hey
, is this something thatguidance counselor needs to get
involved in that?
you know the principal need.
Do we need to have a meeting onthem?
(22:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
so it's that communication piece that was so
wonderful well, and getting backto what you were saying, like
if it's math time, you know thattells us so much, because then
we can talk to the teacher aboutmaybe, what can we do a little
bit different.
Can we do some front loading,because we know that it's going
to set the child off.
So we we need to pay attentionto the data all the time, and I
(22:30):
appreciate the fact that you'rewatching that, because you bring
it to our attention when youstart to really see something
skyrocket, whether it be youknow they're coming down here
all the time or they're spikingat one o'clock.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah right, that's the great thing about swiss is
it's the individual student.
It can show me what you've beendoing since kindergarten and
you know where your problemplaces are some kids it's just
the playground, because it'ssuper fun out there, and they
just want to be rough and toughand I mean, it's just, it's an
amazing system.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I'm not successful without you're the one that
prints out those reports fordiam, for staff meetings and for
monthly PBIS meetings too yes,and I love watching the numbers
go down in behaviors, becausewe've been seeing that recently
we have a big drop in thenumbers compared to like the
fault the previous years.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
That's.
Another thing about swiss isyou can compare it to your
previous years.
You can pretty much.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, so that that is so important, so to have
someone that's like a data nerdlike.
Nicole, and then one that willhelp take the the responsibility
off the principles to enter,you know, because that can watch
the data and watch the data andgive it to them.
Well, I guess the last thingwe're talking about today is, if
(23:44):
you saw a school that wanted tostart, that they listened to
our podcast and they go.
I want to do this.
What would be the first thingyou would say to them, like a
tip or oh.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The first thing you have to have your systems in
place.
I was fortunate enough that wehad all the systems in place.
I just kind of had to plug andgo, just follow the PBIS, follow
the school matrix.
And secondly, which is probablyjust as important as the
systems, is finding the rightperson, because it's it's not an
easy job.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
and you have to wear on you.
Yeah, you know.
So you're right.
Yes, Finding the right person.
And then you know the schoolhaving that tier one system in
place, with the majors andminors defined.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, and absolutely those majors and minors have to
be defined, because I remember,even when we started the
reflection room and then westarted the, they were like well
, are we never allowed to callthe reflection?
When do we call the reflectionroom?
When are we?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
allowed to call the reflection room.
That's true.
We started the reflection roombefore we had our procedures in
place.
Yes, do you remember that?
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And then when they were like, oh, now we're never
going to be allowed to call thereflection room and we were like
, no, but here are the behaviorsthat make that call necessary
and here are they not.
So, having that in place andthe fact that you know.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Nicole said the procedures were already in place
.
So our teachers had beenpracticing with the children all
the time the expectations, howyou behave in the cafeteria,
walking down the hallway, all ofthose things.
So by the time you got intothat role we had worked out all
those bugs and so then it madeit much easier.
But if you're starting areflection room, you really want
(25:18):
to have your children trainedfirst.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Absolutely, and all those procedures set already and
your office manage all that it.
Those would be the big thingsyou want to get started.
But I will tell you, areflection room is amazing,
amazing if it's done correctly.
And me as the guidancecounselor, it was amazing for me
, and I know Diana's principal,it was amazing for her.
(25:43):
Well, I think that's all wehave today for this week's
episode.
Thank you for having me.
Oh my gosh, we've been soblessed to have you today, and
this is our reflect, reorganizeand return episode.
I'm Diane Farrell.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And I'm Diane Ruff.
Thank you so much for listeningtoday.
Please email us with anyquestions at PBIS journey to
genius at gmailcom, and also weare on Facebook and Instagram,
so just look for journey PBIS,journey to genius and you will
find us there.
We'd love to see your comments.
Thank you for listening.
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