March 12, 2024 • 22 mins
Discover the heartwarming stories and innovative strategies behind Dover Avenue Elementary's transformation in student behavior management. Join us as Katie and Mary the dynamic duo from Dover, unravel their personal journeys into the world of education, driven by deep-rooted passions and family legacies. Katie's transition from classroom to administration, fueled by her innate leadership qualities, and Mary's candid reflections on the daily rollercoaster of teaching fifth-grade math, weave together a narrative of commitment and empathy. As we unravel the complexities of handling challenging behaviors, we celebrate the collaborative spirit that empowers the Dover Avenue Elementary community to rise above and thrive.
Step into a world where technology meets positive reinforcement, as we reveal how a simple shift from paper to digital skyrocketed Dover Avenue's student recognition rates from 61% to an impressive 93%. Our hosts, Dianne Ferrell and Diane Ruff, shed light on the power of teacher input in shaping a PBIS program that resonates with both students and educators. From 'tornado shoutouts' to personal lunches with the principal, we unpack the creative incentives that have reshaped the school's culture. In this episode, we're not just talking about educational innovation—we're celebrating the unsung heroes who make it happen every day.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome everyone.
This is our next episode ofPBIS Journey to Genius.
I'm Diane Farrow, I'm here withDiane Roth and we come with a
podcast every week about ourjourney through PBIS, as we've
done it at Minerva, and we'vebeen highlighting schools from
different areas to bring ontheir most proud moments when
(01:01):
they were going through theirjourney, and we always felt
Diane and I always did that thebest programs come through
learning through others andputting that all together,
because nobody can just do itall on your own.
So our school today is Doverand the Dover Tornados.
And Diane, do you want tointroduce our people a little
bit?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Well, I think I'm going to turn it over and let
them introduce themselves.
So go ahead, Katie.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Hi, I'm Katie Nicholson.
I am the principal at DoverAvenue Elementary.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
And I'm Mary LeBright .
I'm one of the fifth grade mathteachers.
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So they have been working on their PBIS here and
we're reaching out to them tosee what they have to do.
But first of all we want themto kind of talk a little bit
about themselves.
So tell us each why you gotinto education.
What started you down that path?
Why did you want to be ateacher?
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah.
So for me there wasn't any bigmoment where I was like, oh my
gosh, I have to be a teacher.
But in high school I kind ofwent back and forth, because
both my parents are in themedical field, so it was either
teaching or medical field.
And I have a younger brotherwith Down syndrome and it was
(02:12):
one of the days that I wasworking with him on some of his
homework that my mom was likeyou know what, mary, I think you
would be a really good teacher.
And I mean it wasn't anythingbig.
But I just remember that momentbeing like, yep, ok, I'm going
to go into teaching.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, that is a moment.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, For me I think it was just I have always been a
helper, so I just was like thatis who I am ever since I was
little.
That was kind of the way I was.
I've always loved working withchildren, so when I was in high
school I would try and do thingsin my church and in my
community.
That was just something Ireally, really loved.
And then, as I got into myteaching experience, I was like
(02:51):
this is what my heart was madefor.
And then, as I got into moreteaching experience, I was like
you know what I really like?
Leading and helping others notjust students, but helping
adults and so, being in theleadership role, I get the
wonderful opportunity of notonly helping students but also
helping teachers.
I'm really trying to come inand surround them and support
(03:12):
everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Oh, and how long have you been both?
How long were you a teacher?
How long have you been anadministrator?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So I've been an administrator.
This is my third year and Ihave been.
This is my 11th year ofeducation, so I was an
intervention specialist prior tothat.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And this is my 11th year in education as well, so OK
.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, good.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So you probably have some aha moments, like what
keeps you coming back?
You know, as you think, overthe last 11 years or so is there
that special moment orsomething that's just happened
that like, oh my goodness, Ijust love what I do.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I wouldn't say that I have just like one big aha
moment because, honestly, thereare some days where it's really
tough.
I mean, we all know thateducation can be rough and all
the different things that we'rerequired to do.
Now it's daunting, like youknow that there's so many people
that are leaving educationbecause of all of it, but so
(04:10):
it's not anything big.
It's just like those littlethings that happen, like maybe
something happens one day, maybeit doesn't, but you know, and
EL kid who's like brand new tothe country, who's just so
excited to work, like when youget to pull them one-on-one and
work with them and they give yougiant hugs and little notes
that you're not expecting fromkids, or seeing a kid who you
(04:33):
had like years ago, that come upand, you know, get so excited
that they see you.
It's all those little momentsthat make all the tough moments.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And you have to keep remembering those you like oh
yeah write them down so thatwhenever you had that day, you
know you can look at thoselittle moments go.
This is why I'm going to comeback tomorrow and not clean my
desk out today.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You're sure.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And I think for me it was.
It was last year actually, soit was only my second year as a
principal, 10th year ineducation.
It was literally the mosttrying year that I have ever
been.
Through the behaviors we saw.
I felt like once we had onebehavior resolved, then, like
all of a sudden, a new behaviorstarted up with another kid and
(05:21):
we're not talking like, hey,this kid is being disrespectful,
we're talking like fullseclusion, we're restraining
kids, we're chasing down kids inthe hallway.
It was a lot, and so I wasexhausted, but every single time
that we had a moment ofdifficulty with the kid I was
reminded of like this is exactlywhere I'm here.
(05:43):
I have the fantastic staff andteam of people who are willing
to jump in and help and honestly, I would say that's one of the
best things about Dover Avenuespecifically is that, like if
someone is struggling or we needhelp, anyone is willing to jump
in, and so through every singlesituation we had hearing some
of the most traumatic lifeexperiences that some of our
(06:04):
kids are going through.
Like it explains why you seesome of that behavior, and so it
gives me so much morecompassion for what they're
going through and understanding.
But again, just that goodreminder for me of, like you
know what, I am, exactly rightwhere I need to be, and as
exhausted as I am and the daysthat I'm like, what am I going
to wear to chase a kid down thehallway?
(06:24):
I think that too.
Yes, I'm like you know what.
I know what.
I'm, where I'm supposed to be,is right here, and it was.
It was exhausting, like Marysaid, but it's everything that I
know that I'm supposed to bedoing, like I get to help.
I want to be the light to thosekids and to the staff, to be
able to say you know what I'mgoing to do, I'm going to try
and show you what I feel, but weare here together.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So it's very much that servant part.
Yes, yeah, because I think youand I both have that and it's
just we know so many of the kidsdon't have that and so we have
to be that person for them.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, that's what I'm interested in and really
understanding like that their,their lives are not the lives we
grew up with, and so trying tounderstand like, okay, if I had
to deal with that going home,you know what.
It explains a lot as to whythey come here and we need them
to understand like you're safe,you're cared for and you're
loved and that's what we're hereto do.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And your position.
You're the teacher, so you'rein the trenches all day long,
but your position is soimportant because you understand
her position and then to helpher whenever she's ready to, so
that and I try my best to dothat.
No, but it's so importantPrincipal is.
It's amazingly important, and Iworked side by side with Diane
(07:40):
for many years and watched greatthings happen as an assistant
principal, so I do know that.
Well, I'm sure that Dover isvery lucky to have you both.
So we're going to move on alittle bit to PBIS now.
So in your PBIS journey we'vebeen asking schools what are you
most proud of?
What would you like tohighlight in your tier one?
(08:01):
You know established doing so.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
We just implemented our new PBIS system really fully
last year, last school year,because so, like Katie said,
this is her third year as ourprincipal and before her it's
like so many different thingshappened where we grade leveled
and then COVID hit and then soall of her, our positive
(08:32):
behavior and behavior system wasso messed up and no consistency
.
So I was working on my master'sprogram and getting ready for
my principal internship, I wasspeaking with Katie and we were
trying to figure out what myproject was going to be.
We both were like, yeah, weneed to fix this.
It is so rough right now.
So that's when we startedworking on implementing and
(08:55):
creating our own PBIS system.
So, but when we started lookingat this, it was in February of
2022.
And what we used was literallyall on paper, like there was no
digital tracking whatsoever.
And Katie and I are both reallyinto data, like we like to look
at data.
I'm a math teacher, so I lovethe numbers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You and Diane should have lunch.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
But so we were able to collect a lot of those papers
and try to analyze it.
So in February of 2022, only61% of our student population
had received any type ofpositive reinforcement.
Nice, you found that out, yeah,and so then you know, we did all
of our planning.
We started rolling things outin the next school year and by
(09:45):
November of that school yearSorry, I know that's not what
I'm talking about, I'm not doingNovember of this year we looked
at this year's data forFebruary.
Since we're in February again93% of our students have gotten
positive reinforcement, and alot of them multiple times too.
So that's jumping from 61% to93% just in two years.
(10:10):
Like we're really proud of that, because you know, in the
beginning we did have somenaysayers that did not want to
do this.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
And I think too, like going from that paper system to
an online system, we'reactually able to say like, okay,
this is a true representationof what we're actually getting.
It doesn't, of course, countfor all the hey, you did a
really great job, but it's likeour specific positive
reinforcement that we're usingtoo.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
How do you track that ?
Is it like a Google Doc thatyou made?
So?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
we tried really hard to get a actual like platform
like live school kickboard,things like that.
We didn't want to do that, wejust wanted it, but it just was
not in our district's budget.
So we went back to the drawingboard and we ended up coming up
with we use a Google form forour positive reinforcement and
then, anytime we have to trackany negative behaviors, we use a
(11:05):
Google sheet where we have itall analyzed based on the time,
the place that they're at, sothat way we're able to sort
through all that.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
It's not the prettiest thing in the world,
it's a massive spreadsheet forboth the positive and the
negative stuff.
It's not the best, but it hasworked for us for again free, so
you can make it whatever youwant when it's free.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What size of your building?
What's the size of people?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
who might be.
We have about 385 students here.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So just to know, you know using a Google sheet like
that if it isn't in your budget.
You know to get one of thoseprograms that are out there.
You know using that, but wejust wonder.
I just wondered what sizeshould be, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
So what are the types of acknowledgments that, like
you track, do teachers go inevery day and put in certain
things, or what are some ofthose examples?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So we use the Google Form for what we call tornado
shoutouts.
So literally any staff memberit's classified or certified can
go in and they can access thatGoogle Form and you can mark any
student in the whole school, soit doesn't just have to be in
your homeroom, it can be anyone.
You see someone pick up sometrash in the hallway.
You can be like what's yourname?
And go grab them, fill it outright.
Then it takes maybe 30 seconds.
(12:24):
That's what we wanted was quickand efficient.
That because we know teacherswill buy more if you're like,
hey, it's easy and fast, sothat's the one way that we do it
.
And then every week I randomlydraw names of those names that
have been submitted through that, through that Google Form, and
I announce them on theannouncements.
And so then we have a fourthand fifth grade winner every day
(12:44):
and then at the end of the weekwe do pictures that kind of go
on our slideshow in the hallwayof those students who have been
randomly chosen we're now in thepool slideshow, yes, to kind of
honor them and what they'vebeen doing.
And then each month we do a toptornado chosen, and so the
teachers work together withintheir teams to decide who's
(13:05):
gonna be like our one or twostudents of the month that we
get to honor, and so thenthrough that, then they get
lunch with me and that, honestly, that's been probably the most
fun thing I've done, becauseit's just a very relaxing, chill
time for them.
I get to hear the funniestthings about what they love
about Dover Avenue and maybewhat they don't love, and just
some of the fun like fourth andfifth grade Lunch groups are the
(13:27):
best they are.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
From a guidance counselor.
I had lunch groups all the time.
They are the best.
Kids are the best.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
They're very fun, yeah, and then we do a nine
weeks reward for the wholeschool.
So if students have earned that, then they get to participate
in that like nine week rewardparty that we have.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So really, your spreadsheet is kind of like a
school dojo type thing, onlyjust doing it.
And then teachers get on, theyfill out a little form and
that's what you do the drawingsfrom, but then they go in and
make the mark.
So you're not trying to make300 marks and stuff that you can
administer.
So they go in, make the mark onthe spreadsheet quick and easy,
(14:07):
fill up the little form and putit so that you can make the
drawings.
Yeah, absolutely Very quick.
Yeah, but that's what it's like.
You just made it yourself, yes,and then the version.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, and we did look at class dojo.
We just felt like, becausewe're fourth and fifth grade
building it, just it was toobaby-ish for our building, Like
we because our second and thirdgrade building uses it.
But we just, yeah, we did asimilar thing.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I mean the same principle yeah, Without money
attached.
Yeah, yeah, that is awesome.
So if you see your statisticsgo up like that, that makes
Diane happy.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Love to see that happen.
Yeah, so what else did you wantto share with our listeners
today?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I think for me that as a building leader, the one
thing we really tried toreinforce and I'll let Mary
share a little bit more, but wewanted it to not be one more
thing the last thing everyonemeans in education, especially
right now, is one more thing wereally needed to first of all
replace the old traditionalstyle of let's only talk about
(15:12):
the negative and also making itagain very efficient for
teachers to use.
That way we would again buy inmore.
It was really we're replacingsomething else and making it
more efficient.
And then the other part of thatis just making sure that
teachers know that this PBIS ispart of that multi-tiered system
of support.
(15:32):
Like we have got to start withthe basic bottom part of that
Maslow's hierarchy to reallyaddress any other academic needs
.
And so that has probably beenthe most challenging part of the
year for me.
I'll see you guys next time.
Getting people on board issaying like, well, we're always
talking about like the behaviorand everything else, and I'm
like, yes, but until we get thebehavior resolved we are not
(15:56):
going to be able to even addressany math skills that they don't
have.
So I would say for us that'sprobably been one of the biggest
things that we've been tryingto continually reinforce is it's
not one more thing, it is thevery first thing we have to do,
and we are replacing otherthings.
We're not just adding on to,we're kind of taking some of the
(16:17):
other stuff away.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yes, Do you think your staff has almost been
relieved, though, that there'snow some consistency across your
building, where it was maybesome like their own thing, but I
mean before I'm sure it wasthis teacher did this, or this
grade level did this, or thisgroup of teachers did this, but
now you are across the boardwith this.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yes, I think so, and it makes my life a lot easier as
well, because then I canconsistently say like, oh, we
need to give some more shoutouts in this area.
It makes it very easy then whenparents call in to say like hey
, what is a tornado warning?
And I can explain to them,because everyone uses that same
same behaviors, or someone, youdo something that's not okay,
(17:01):
it's a tornado warning, it's a20.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I love that.
Yeah, we created all of itourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
So I think that has, provided that consistency, has
been so helpful and it's sohelpful for our students of a
team of four teachers.
So the fact that in mary'sclassroom they could get a
tornado shout out and then theycould go next door to Mrs Morris
and they could get a tornadoshot from there.
So it's not like you know, Ihave to learn her expectations
and what her reward is going tobe.
(17:29):
So it has helped, I think,tremendously, honestly, with
consistency.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I'm just all using the same language of our three
pillars of be respectful, beresponsible and be safe, like.
It's so much easier to havethose conversations with kids
that like, aren't on my team,like when I'm out on recess duty
, there's four other home roomsthat I don't see, and so if
they're doing something, it isvery easy for me to be like, hey
, that is not being responsibleand that's definitely not being
(17:56):
safe, like, and they, they knowthat, and they, we all use the
same matrix, and so it's justfrom the teacher standpoint I
can see that the consistency isso much better.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And with you being in this 11 years but really only
seeing this the last coupleyears, as you put it together,
you can see the difference bigtime, absolutely, yeah, just
really awesome.
Well, one thing we wanted tosay okay, so now you're going to
give a tip to a school that'sbeen listening, you know, and
what would you say was yournumber one tip, as someone's
(18:30):
moving forward with this to theywere you three years ago.
You know what's your tip.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Don't get yourself overwhelmed.
That's like the biggest thingthere's.
Just there are so manydifferent programs and there's
so many different things outthere, but there are some
programs that are trying to sellit.
Like here's your PDIS systemand you can't just go and
purchase a system Like it has towork for your building.
(19:00):
Every school building is unique.
So, honestly, like you have totake and create your own things.
Like whether you do have anonline digital system you can
use.
You still have to create itunique to your building, and did
you?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
have a team.
That's why it's called aframework.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes, it's a framework , so that you can take the
framework and then make it yourown, and so I just love that
advice.
Yes, what else?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Can you talk about a team that you guys not doing it
on your own, or feeling like youhave to do it on your own?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I think that would be my biggest tip,
especially as a buildingadministrator.
Like you can't own this, itvery much has to be the teachers
.
Like I try to stay very, veryquiet during any PBIS meetings
we have.
I'm kind of more of that bigpicture.
Like I know one of our meetingswe had the team was like hey,
what about this really greatidea for a war party?
And like all right, let's talkabout what that looks like
(19:58):
practically, and not that I wantto steal any of the fun away.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Me and Otting.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Me and the awesome, because I'm like that's a lovely
idea on paper, but what willthat actually look like?
And then, as we start kind oftalking through, it's like, ok,
we can make that work.
So I would say really getting ateam around you, because as a
principal, you can't own it alland as a classroom teacher, you
can't own it all.
It's really saying like we needto come together, pull those
people who you know are going tobe like oh my gosh, thank God
(20:24):
we're doing this, or otherpeople you're like I need to
drag you along so you can buyinto it early.
And so, I think, really makingsure that you have a group of
people to surround yourselveswith, that you don't have to own
it yourself and give yourself alittle bit of patience too.
It's been now a year and a halfusing this system.
We've come up with, and there'sstill things I'm like.
I kind of want to do this alittle bit differently next year
(20:47):
.
I think we can make this better, like constantly refining it,
just to make it more efficient,make it more practical and
better for the students.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That is awesome, that is really awesome.
And you are just shiningthrough on some of the things
that Diane and I have discoveredover these years too,
especially not being too heavilyin the administrative role of
it.
Diane was principal and I wasthe guidance counselor, but kind
of administrative roles andthen having that teacher voice
(21:18):
is so big for that efficacy tohappen, that fidelity in the
program.
Right, diane, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yes, well, I think we're good for today.
Is there anything else we wantto add?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
We really appreciate you guys coming on and just the
fact that you have just startedthis.
Some people have been in it foryears.
They're revisiting it again andthey're trying to work out
kinks and quirks or refresh it.
But it's nice to hear frompeople who are just starting it
and they're being two years intoit and your excitement.
(21:56):
So it's been really good, and Iknow schools that are out there
struggling with their journeywill enjoy hearing what you guys
said today.
So thank you so much for comingon and thank you, listeners,
for taking the time to listen toour show.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
We would love to hear from you.
Look for us on Facebook orInstagram, or email us at
pbisjourneytugeneascom.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
This is Diane Farrell and I'm with.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Diane Ruff.
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome everyone.
This is our next episode ofPBIS Journey to Genius.
I'm Diane Farrow, I'm here withDiane Roth and we come with a
podcast every week about ourjourney through PBIS, as we've
done it at Minerva, and we'vebeen highlighting schools from
different areas to bring ontheir most proud moments when
(01:01):
they were going through theirjourney, and we always felt
Diane and I always did that thebest programs come through
learning through others andputting that all together,
because nobody can just do itall on your own.
So our school today is Doverand the Dover Tornados.
And Diane, do you want tointroduce our people a little
bit?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Well, I think I'm going to turn it over and let
them introduce themselves.
So go ahead, Katie.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Hi, I'm Katie Nicholson.
I am the principal at DoverAvenue Elementary.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
And I'm Mary LeBright .
I'm one of the fifth grade mathteachers.
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So they have been working on their PBIS here and
we're reaching out to them tosee what they have to do.
But first of all we want themto kind of talk a little bit
about themselves.
So tell us each why you gotinto education.
What started you down that path?
Why did you want to be ateacher?
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah.
So for me there wasn't any bigmoment where I was like, oh my
gosh, I have to be a teacher.
But in high school I kind ofwent back and forth, because
both my parents are in themedical field, so it was either
teaching or medical field.
And I have a younger brotherwith Down syndrome and it was
(02:12):
one of the days that I wasworking with him on some of his
homework that my mom was likeyou know what, mary, I think you
would be a really good teacher.
And I mean it wasn't anythingbig.
But I just remember that momentbeing like, yep, ok, I'm going
to go into teaching.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, that is a moment.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, For me I think it was just I have always been a
helper, so I just was like thatis who I am ever since I was
little.
That was kind of the way I was.
I've always loved working withchildren, so when I was in high
school I would try and do thingsin my church and in my
community.
That was just something Ireally, really loved.
And then, as I got into myteaching experience, I was like
(02:51):
this is what my heart was madefor.
And then, as I got into moreteaching experience, I was like
you know what I really like?
Leading and helping others notjust students, but helping
adults and so, being in theleadership role, I get the
wonderful opportunity of notonly helping students but also
helping teachers.
I'm really trying to come inand surround them and support
(03:12):
everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Oh, and how long have you been both?
How long were you a teacher?
How long have you been anadministrator?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So I've been an administrator.
This is my third year and Ihave been.
This is my 11th year ofeducation, so I was an
intervention specialist prior tothat.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And this is my 11th year in education as well, so OK
.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, good.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So you probably have some aha moments, like what
keeps you coming back?
You know, as you think, overthe last 11 years or so is there
that special moment orsomething that's just happened
that like, oh my goodness, Ijust love what I do.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I wouldn't say that I have just like one big aha
moment because, honestly, thereare some days where it's really
tough.
I mean, we all know thateducation can be rough and all
the different things that we'rerequired to do.
Now it's daunting, like youknow that there's so many people
that are leaving educationbecause of all of it, but so
(04:10):
it's not anything big.
It's just like those littlethings that happen, like maybe
something happens one day, maybeit doesn't, but you know, and
EL kid who's like brand new tothe country, who's just so
excited to work, like when youget to pull them one-on-one and
work with them and they give yougiant hugs and little notes
that you're not expecting fromkids, or seeing a kid who you
(04:33):
had like years ago, that come upand, you know, get so excited
that they see you.
It's all those little momentsthat make all the tough moments.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And you have to keep remembering those you like oh
yeah write them down so thatwhenever you had that day, you
know you can look at thoselittle moments go.
This is why I'm going to comeback tomorrow and not clean my
desk out today.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You're sure.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And I think for me it was.
It was last year actually, soit was only my second year as a
principal, 10th year ineducation.
It was literally the mosttrying year that I have ever
been.
Through the behaviors we saw.
I felt like once we had onebehavior resolved, then, like
all of a sudden, a new behaviorstarted up with another kid and
(05:21):
we're not talking like, hey,this kid is being disrespectful,
we're talking like fullseclusion, we're restraining
kids, we're chasing down kids inthe hallway.
It was a lot, and so I wasexhausted, but every single time
that we had a moment ofdifficulty with the kid I was
reminded of like this is exactlywhere I'm here.
(05:43):
I have the fantastic staff andteam of people who are willing
to jump in and help and honestly, I would say that's one of the
best things about Dover Avenuespecifically is that, like if
someone is struggling or we needhelp, anyone is willing to jump
in, and so through every singlesituation we had hearing some
of the most traumatic lifeexperiences that some of our
(06:04):
kids are going through.
Like it explains why you seesome of that behavior, and so it
gives me so much morecompassion for what they're
going through and understanding.
But again, just that goodreminder for me of, like you
know what, I am, exactly rightwhere I need to be, and as
exhausted as I am and the daysthat I'm like, what am I going
to wear to chase a kid down thehallway?
(06:24):
I think that too.
Yes, I'm like you know what.
I know what.
I'm, where I'm supposed to be,is right here, and it was.
It was exhausting, like Marysaid, but it's everything that I
know that I'm supposed to bedoing, like I get to help.
I want to be the light to thosekids and to the staff, to be
able to say you know what I'mgoing to do, I'm going to try
and show you what I feel, but weare here together.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So it's very much that servant part.
Yes, yeah, because I think youand I both have that and it's
just we know so many of the kidsdon't have that and so we have
to be that person for them.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, that's what I'm interested in and really
understanding like that their,their lives are not the lives we
grew up with, and so trying tounderstand like, okay, if I had
to deal with that going home,you know what.
It explains a lot as to whythey come here and we need them
to understand like you're safe,you're cared for and you're
loved and that's what we're hereto do.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And your position.
You're the teacher, so you'rein the trenches all day long,
but your position is soimportant because you understand
her position and then to helpher whenever she's ready to, so
that and I try my best to dothat.
No, but it's so importantPrincipal is.
It's amazingly important, and Iworked side by side with Diane
(07:40):
for many years and watched greatthings happen as an assistant
principal, so I do know that.
Well, I'm sure that Dover isvery lucky to have you both.
So we're going to move on alittle bit to PBIS now.
So in your PBIS journey we'vebeen asking schools what are you
most proud of?
What would you like tohighlight in your tier one?
(08:01):
You know established doing so.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
We just implemented our new PBIS system really fully
last year, last school year,because so, like Katie said,
this is her third year as ourprincipal and before her it's
like so many different thingshappened where we grade leveled
and then COVID hit and then soall of her, our positive
(08:32):
behavior and behavior system wasso messed up and no consistency
.
So I was working on my master'sprogram and getting ready for
my principal internship, I wasspeaking with Katie and we were
trying to figure out what myproject was going to be.
We both were like, yeah, weneed to fix this.
It is so rough right now.
So that's when we startedworking on implementing and
(08:55):
creating our own PBIS system.
So, but when we started lookingat this, it was in February of
2022.
And what we used was literallyall on paper, like there was no
digital tracking whatsoever.
And Katie and I are both reallyinto data, like we like to look
at data.
I'm a math teacher, so I lovethe numbers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You and Diane should have lunch.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
But so we were able to collect a lot of those papers
and try to analyze it.
So in February of 2022, only61% of our student population
had received any type ofpositive reinforcement.
Nice, you found that out, yeah,and so then you know, we did all
of our planning.
We started rolling things outin the next school year and by
(09:45):
November of that school yearSorry, I know that's not what
I'm talking about, I'm not doingNovember of this year we looked
at this year's data forFebruary.
Since we're in February again93% of our students have gotten
positive reinforcement, and alot of them multiple times too.
So that's jumping from 61% to93% just in two years.
(10:10):
Like we're really proud of that, because you know, in the
beginning we did have somenaysayers that did not want to
do this.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
And I think too, like going from that paper system to
an online system, we'reactually able to say like, okay,
this is a true representationof what we're actually getting.
It doesn't, of course, countfor all the hey, you did a
really great job, but it's likeour specific positive
reinforcement that we're usingtoo.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
How do you track that ?
Is it like a Google Doc thatyou made?
So?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
we tried really hard to get a actual like platform
like live school kickboard,things like that.
We didn't want to do that, wejust wanted it, but it just was
not in our district's budget.
So we went back to the drawingboard and we ended up coming up
with we use a Google form forour positive reinforcement and
then, anytime we have to trackany negative behaviors, we use a
(11:05):
Google sheet where we have itall analyzed based on the time,
the place that they're at, sothat way we're able to sort
through all that.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
It's not the prettiest thing in the world,
it's a massive spreadsheet forboth the positive and the
negative stuff.
It's not the best, but it hasworked for us for again free, so
you can make it whatever youwant when it's free.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What size of your building?
What's the size of people?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
who might be.
We have about 385 students here.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So just to know, you know using a Google sheet like
that if it isn't in your budget.
You know to get one of thoseprograms that are out there.
You know using that, but wejust wonder.
I just wondered what sizeshould be, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
So what are the types of acknowledgments that, like
you track, do teachers go inevery day and put in certain
things, or what are some ofthose examples?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So we use the Google Form for what we call tornado
shoutouts.
So literally any staff memberit's classified or certified can
go in and they can access thatGoogle Form and you can mark any
student in the whole school, soit doesn't just have to be in
your homeroom, it can be anyone.
You see someone pick up sometrash in the hallway.
You can be like what's yourname?
And go grab them, fill it outright.
Then it takes maybe 30 seconds.
(12:24):
That's what we wanted was quickand efficient.
That because we know teacherswill buy more if you're like,
hey, it's easy and fast, sothat's the one way that we do it
.
And then every week I randomlydraw names of those names that
have been submitted through that, through that Google Form, and
I announce them on theannouncements.
And so then we have a fourthand fifth grade winner every day
(12:44):
and then at the end of the weekwe do pictures that kind of go
on our slideshow in the hallwayof those students who have been
randomly chosen we're now in thepool slideshow, yes, to kind of
honor them and what they'vebeen doing.
And then each month we do a toptornado chosen, and so the
teachers work together withintheir teams to decide who's
(13:05):
gonna be like our one or twostudents of the month that we
get to honor, and so thenthrough that, then they get
lunch with me and that, honestly, that's been probably the most
fun thing I've done, becauseit's just a very relaxing, chill
time for them.
I get to hear the funniestthings about what they love
about Dover Avenue and maybewhat they don't love, and just
some of the fun like fourth andfifth grade Lunch groups are the
(13:27):
best they are.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
From a guidance counselor.
I had lunch groups all the time.
They are the best.
Kids are the best.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
They're very fun, yeah, and then we do a nine
weeks reward for the wholeschool.
So if students have earned that, then they get to participate
in that like nine week rewardparty that we have.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So really, your spreadsheet is kind of like a
school dojo type thing, onlyjust doing it.
And then teachers get on, theyfill out a little form and
that's what you do the drawingsfrom, but then they go in and
make the mark.
So you're not trying to make300 marks and stuff that you can
administer.
So they go in, make the mark onthe spreadsheet quick and easy,
(14:07):
fill up the little form and putit so that you can make the
drawings.
Yeah, absolutely Very quick.
Yeah, but that's what it's like.
You just made it yourself, yes,and then the version.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, and we did look at class dojo.
We just felt like, becausewe're fourth and fifth grade
building it, just it was toobaby-ish for our building, Like
we because our second and thirdgrade building uses it.
But we just, yeah, we did asimilar thing.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I mean the same principle yeah, Without money
attached.
Yeah, yeah, that is awesome.
So if you see your statisticsgo up like that, that makes
Diane happy.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Love to see that happen.
Yeah, so what else did you wantto share with our listeners
today?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I think for me that as a building leader, the one
thing we really tried toreinforce and I'll let Mary
share a little bit more, but wewanted it to not be one more
thing the last thing everyonemeans in education, especially
right now, is one more thing wereally needed to first of all
replace the old traditionalstyle of let's only talk about
(15:12):
the negative and also making itagain very efficient for
teachers to use.
That way we would again buy inmore.
It was really we're replacingsomething else and making it
more efficient.
And then the other part of thatis just making sure that
teachers know that this PBIS ispart of that multi-tiered system
of support.
(15:32):
Like we have got to start withthe basic bottom part of that
Maslow's hierarchy to reallyaddress any other academic needs
.
And so that has probably beenthe most challenging part of the
year for me.
I'll see you guys next time.
Getting people on board issaying like, well, we're always
talking about like the behaviorand everything else, and I'm
like, yes, but until we get thebehavior resolved we are not
(15:56):
going to be able to even addressany math skills that they don't
have.
So I would say for us that'sprobably been one of the biggest
things that we've been tryingto continually reinforce is it's
not one more thing, it is thevery first thing we have to do,
and we are replacing otherthings.
We're not just adding on to,we're kind of taking some of the
(16:17):
other stuff away.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yes, Do you think your staff has almost been
relieved, though, that there'snow some consistency across your
building, where it was maybesome like their own thing, but I
mean before I'm sure it wasthis teacher did this, or this
grade level did this, or thisgroup of teachers did this, but
now you are across the boardwith this.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yes, I think so, and it makes my life a lot easier as
well, because then I canconsistently say like, oh, we
need to give some more shoutouts in this area.
It makes it very easy then whenparents call in to say like hey
, what is a tornado warning?
And I can explain to them,because everyone uses that same
same behaviors, or someone, youdo something that's not okay,
(17:01):
it's a tornado warning, it's a20.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I love that.
Yeah, we created all of itourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
So I think that has, provided that consistency, has
been so helpful and it's sohelpful for our students of a
team of four teachers.
So the fact that in mary'sclassroom they could get a
tornado shout out and then theycould go next door to Mrs Morris
and they could get a tornadoshot from there.
So it's not like you know, Ihave to learn her expectations
and what her reward is going tobe.
(17:29):
So it has helped, I think,tremendously, honestly, with
consistency.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I'm just all using the same language of our three
pillars of be respectful, beresponsible and be safe, like.
It's so much easier to havethose conversations with kids
that like, aren't on my team,like when I'm out on recess duty
, there's four other home roomsthat I don't see, and so if
they're doing something, it isvery easy for me to be like, hey
, that is not being responsibleand that's definitely not being
(17:56):
safe, like, and they, they knowthat, and they, we all use the
same matrix, and so it's justfrom the teacher standpoint I
can see that the consistency isso much better.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And with you being in this 11 years but really only
seeing this the last coupleyears, as you put it together,
you can see the difference bigtime, absolutely, yeah, just
really awesome.
Well, one thing we wanted tosay okay, so now you're going to
give a tip to a school that'sbeen listening, you know, and
what would you say was yournumber one tip, as someone's
(18:30):
moving forward with this to theywere you three years ago.
You know what's your tip.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Don't get yourself overwhelmed.
That's like the biggest thingthere's.
Just there are so manydifferent programs and there's
so many different things outthere, but there are some
programs that are trying to sellit.
Like here's your PDIS systemand you can't just go and
purchase a system Like it has towork for your building.
(19:00):
Every school building is unique.
So, honestly, like you have totake and create your own things.
Like whether you do have anonline digital system you can
use.
You still have to create itunique to your building, and did
you?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
have a team.
That's why it's called aframework.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes, it's a framework , so that you can take the
framework and then make it yourown, and so I just love that
advice.
Yes, what else?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Can you talk about a team that you guys not doing it
on your own, or feeling like youhave to do it on your own?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I think that would be my biggest tip,
especially as a buildingadministrator.
Like you can't own this, itvery much has to be the teachers
.
Like I try to stay very, veryquiet during any PBIS meetings
we have.
I'm kind of more of that bigpicture.
Like I know one of our meetingswe had the team was like hey,
what about this really greatidea for a war party?
And like all right, let's talkabout what that looks like
(19:58):
practically, and not that I wantto steal any of the fun away.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Me and Otting.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Me and the awesome, because I'm like that's a lovely
idea on paper, but what willthat actually look like?
And then, as we start kind oftalking through, it's like, ok,
we can make that work.
So I would say really getting ateam around you, because as a
principal, you can't own it alland as a classroom teacher, you
can't own it all.
It's really saying like we needto come together, pull those
people who you know are going tobe like oh my gosh, thank God
(20:24):
we're doing this, or otherpeople you're like I need to
drag you along so you can buyinto it early.
And so, I think, really makingsure that you have a group of
people to surround yourselveswith, that you don't have to own
it yourself and give yourself alittle bit of patience too.
It's been now a year and a halfusing this system.
We've come up with, and there'sstill things I'm like.
I kind of want to do this alittle bit differently next year
(20:47):
.
I think we can make this better, like constantly refining it,
just to make it more efficient,make it more practical and
better for the students.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That is awesome, that is really awesome.
And you are just shiningthrough on some of the things
that Diane and I have discoveredover these years too,
especially not being too heavilyin the administrative role of
it.
Diane was principal and I wasthe guidance counselor, but kind
of administrative roles andthen having that teacher voice
(21:18):
is so big for that efficacy tohappen, that fidelity in the
program.
Right, diane, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yes, well, I think we're good for today.
Is there anything else we wantto add?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
We really appreciate you guys coming on and just the
fact that you have just startedthis.
Some people have been in it foryears.
They're revisiting it again andthey're trying to work out
kinks and quirks or refresh it.
But it's nice to hear frompeople who are just starting it
and they're being two years intoit and your excitement.
(21:56):
So it's been really good, and Iknow schools that are out there
struggling with their journeywill enjoy hearing what you guys
said today.
So thank you so much for comingon and thank you, listeners,
for taking the time to listen toour show.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
We would love to hear from you.
Look for us on Facebook orInstagram, or email us at
pbisjourneytugeneascom.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
This is Diane Farrell and I'm with.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Diane Ruff.
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