December 5, 2023 • 27 mins
Ever wondered why your child’s school places so much emphasis on something called PBIS? What if we told you that it’s the key to managing student behavior and promoting a positive learning environment? Join us today as we unravel the mysteries behind the Positive Behavior Intervention and Support (PBIS) system in schools and explain how crucial data is in guiding its implementation. We'll share insights into the use of programs like SWIS for data assessment and an inside look at how we create an expected behavior matrix for different school zones.
Let's paint a picture together of a PBIS boot camp. Imagine students actively practicing the required behaviors - a fascinating exercise that brings theories to life. This episode also features a practical approach to teaching rules in schools. Hear about our unique "daily five" concept, where peer pressure is creatively used to encourage rule-following. We'll share the story of Diane and Dianne's successful "buddy teacher timeout" system and their emphasis on having the principal's involvement.
As we journey towards becoming geniuses in managing school behavior, we'll explore the importance of establishing and enforcing rules and procedures. This journey doesn't end here; it's just the beginning. As a curtain raiser to our next episode, we'll touch upon the acknowledgment system in schools - a motivating tool that helps students understand expectations. So, buckle up for an enlightening conversation that promises to change your perspective on school discipline and behavior management.
Buddy Teacher Timeout: https://www.wscaweb.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/9aa30ee066d1d2d8a5021de3bcdd8669.pdf
Minerva Elementary website: https://mes.mlsd.sparcc.org/pbis
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right, welcome everyone to PBIS, our Journey to
Genius.
I'm Diane Farrell and I'm herewith Diane Ruff, and we are two
educators that have workedtogether for many years and we
started a Positive BehaviorIntervention and Support System
several years ago.
That's helped our schoolreceive many awards and we are
(00:55):
doing a podcast every week toshare our trials and successes
so that you might use these tohelp you in your Positive
Behavior Intervention Journey.
So every week we have someguests on, but this week it's
just going to be Diane and I, sowe're going to talk just us,
but we're going to let Dianerecap our guest and what was
said last week.
So, Diane, what did we talkabout?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Well, last week we talked about the importance of
data and our assistant principalwas here, mrs Miller, and she
shared, you know, the importanceof looking at data because that
drives everything that we doand that's the genius part of
the genius of PBIS is pouringthrough that data, looking for
maybe parts of your Tier 1 thataren't working so well, or
(01:39):
there's a child that's meltingdown at a certain time.
Your data can tell you so muchand when you study your data
then it's going to help youcreate that plan for the Tier 1,
or even for a behavior plan foranother child.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And we talked about a program last week called SWIS.
Okay, and that is really easyto use and we have loved using
it and it gives a lot ofinformation to share with your
teams, with your staff.
It's very easy to do that.
So if you do get on PBIS SWISnot like Switzerland and it will
(02:16):
, we've just used it a lot.
But whatever you use, data isvery important to show that your
system is working.
So today we're going to moveaway from that system and we're
going to talk about Tier 1.
So when Don and I were startingthis years and years ago and if
you use our listen to ourpodcast, you'll know why we
(02:37):
started it but we knew that wehad to start a Tier 1.
Now I know that whenever you'restarting PBIS, you might sit
there and go, but I really wantto address the kids that are
having problems.
You know it's okay what we dowith everybody else.
I need to know what to do forthis student who's under the
desk or won't stop moving ortalking out.
(02:59):
But the trouble is, pbisemphasizes the importance of
Tier 1.
And Tier 1, if you do it welland consistent throughout your
building can take care a lot ofthose Tier 2-ish kids and will
control those behaviors.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Absolutely so.
Where we started inimplementing our Tier 1 was, we
decided after we created thematrix and we talked about the
behaviors that we expect in allthe different areas of the
building and what that behaviorlooks like, how it feels, you
know, seeing it in action.
We then thought the next stepis to practice it, physically
(03:38):
practice it, so we called it aboot camp.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
We did.
Diane actually came up withthat.
We were like perfect becauseshe said she goes boot camp.
That's where they go andpractice to be in the military.
So we're going to practice, sowe called it our PBIS boot camp.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
And so what we did is we, you know we talked to the
teachers again about the matrixand just what they need to do in
their classrooms and a lot ofteachers, as you heard in prior
episodes, you know teachers hadsome things under control in the
classroom, but we were reallyconcerned about the main areas
of the building.
We were very concerned aboutthe behaviors in the bathroom
(04:17):
because you all know, if youwork with children, especially
elementary, the long poles ofthe paper towels across the
hallway and the soap towerseverywhere you know they like to
do those and kind of wear themlike a beard on your face.
The running in the hallway,because a long hallway looks
like a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And we have long hallways.
We do in this building, youknow.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And then our cafeteria.
We had a free for all, really,in the cafeteria we would just
dismiss and kids, we wouldexpect kids to go up and drop
their trays off.
Well, elementary kids run intoeach other, they drop their
trays.
It's a big mess and we thought,you know, we need procedures
for that.
So there were a lot of ahamoments in the beginning when we
were creating our matrix.
So we have that all designed.
(05:00):
But the next step was how do weget children to do it?
We do it through a boot camp.
We practice physically,practice doing it, and that was
an eye-opener for us, becausewe're used to telling children
what they need to do.
We do and then we just expect itto do it just because we tell
(05:21):
them to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
But that's not the way we learned that very clearly
that you can't just go over aset of rules one time and expect
them to do it and tell aboutthat algebra class video that
you found.
So this was another, very youknow it was like genius again,
because it was so simple.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And yet, as we all sat there and watched this video
, none of us had ever thought todo it.
But it was a video where amiddle school algebra teacher.
He was teaching the rules andprocedures for his classroom and
the very first procedure wasafter switching classes, you did
not enter his classroom, youstood in the hallway in a
straight line and you got quietand you had to stand there and
(06:01):
then he would invite you in.
So he was practicing this.
He was making his seventh andeighth grade students practice
this, so they would start tocome in to the room.
If one person talked, he wouldstop them.
He would say we need topractice again.
Everybody back out in thehallway, everybody line up, and
(06:21):
then, when everyone was quiet,he would send them in again.
When someone talked, he wouldstop them, send them back out,
line up against the wall, wait asecond or two till everyone was
quiet, because he did not sendthem in until everyone was quiet
.
You, I forget how that goes.
We expect.
We get what we expect.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, and he said that on there.
And I know that even when I waswatching the video, you got to
the point why don't you just lethim in the room?
Okay, but it was, it was agenius, he said.
He actually did it 25 times 25times Now.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
we didn't watch that happen 25 times but we watched
that video and it was justeye-opening.
And I think I made theconnection then to the daily
five.
And some of you might knowabout the daily five.
But there is a part in thedaily five where you teach
stamina and you teach childrento silently read.
You know, and so if you're, youknow, I was a second grade
(07:17):
teacher you know how do you justget children to sit at their
desk quietly and read silentlyfor 10 minutes?
Well, it never happens.
Well, because I never taughtthem.
Well, in the daily five.
It's the same concept.
You come over, you gatheraround the teacher, you talk
about what you're going to doand then you send everybody out
and everybody's reading.
But the minute someone talksyou come back and you start
(07:39):
again and you try to work upmore time.
So you know, maybe you're goingto read, you tell the class
we're going to read for fiveminutes, but if someone talks
within that five minutes, youpull everybody back, you start
the timer again and send themback out.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So children start to get very irritated with the ones
they do because they don't wantto keep starting over.
And there's peer pressure there, right, Because others like,
don't talk, we don't want to dothis over.
So we really wanted teachers tobuy into that.
Because it was so importantthat first year?
Because, remember, nobody noneof the students you know, and we
(08:14):
had 900 students in thisbuilding None of them knew the
rules.
So this first boot camp mayseem painful, but every year
after you're going to have awhole bank of students that know
the rules.
So it's not.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And we didn't practice just one day.
We created a schedule and wetold the teachers give us two
weeks you know this is two weeksat the beginning of the school
year.
We're not pulling from academics, we're teaching routines and
procedures.
Do that in your classroom.
We will do it here, in the bigparts of the building the
cafeteria, the playground, thebus hallway, the bus and then we
(08:52):
would pull grade levels down orclassrooms down, and we would
practice every single day.
We would practice taking ourtray up.
We would in the cafeteria, wewould go out onto the playground
and we would send them out,blow the whistle to send them
out to play, and then we wouldhave them come back and line up
and we would do that five or sixtimes, so until everyone lined
(09:13):
up quietly.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And an important part of this.
So you know, like Diane was theadmin there.
It was important that the adminwas there because that also
puts the stamp on it.
You know, it's not just theteacher saying it, it is the
admin.
And the other thing that we didthat I thought was so important
is, if you have recess aides oryou have cafeteria aides, she
(09:35):
paid them to come in if that wasearly and be a part of that,
because if they're in charge ofthe playground or they're in
charge of the cafeteria, theyhave to be there for those
practices and it's good for thecafeteria workers to see it
because that's where yourenforcement's going to happen.
But they have to have thatbuy-in and they have to see it.
(09:55):
You can't just tell them aboutit Like.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
they have to see it happening and be a part of it
and you know, and I think theteachers realize, when we kept
calling.
You know we created a two weekschedule, so every day the
teachers knew at a certain timethey were going to bring their
class down to practice eithercafeteria procedures or
playground procedures.
But then they also real, theywere responsible to teach the
bathroom procedures.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes, they did do the bathroom on their own.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
But I think they you know.
Instead, when we just tellpeople things, it doesn't always
work.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You've got to model it Because their interpretations
, your interpretation, are twodifferent things.
But if you model it I'm avision learner, you know I need
to see.
A lot of people just can't hearbecause you hear it in
different ways.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So I think the teachers then got it kind of
like oh, that's what you'retalking about.
You know what I need to practice?
Literally practice bathroomprocedures every single day for
two weeks and you'll recall thatif you've listened to earlier
episodes that Mrs Hunt talkedabout, you know practicing the
three poles of the paper town,one square to scope, that we
spent time doing that.
(10:55):
Teachers did that, but I thinkwhen they saw the office, the
admin, making it a goal, makingit important, then they realize,
oh, we need to do this in thehallway.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So that's why our big you know every podcast we want
big takeaways.
So a big takeaway on this, ifyou're looking to do it, is one
spending the time, the effort inthe boot camp and to have your
admin there, because it reallyis important.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's very important for the admin and teachers will
then take that what I'll say toadmin.
You need to take the time to dothis.
This is absolutely the mostimportant thing you'll do in
running a building, because it'sgoing to being proactive, saves
you everything it absolutelydoes.
Reactive, then you get muddleddown in all the reactivity of
(11:42):
all the behaviors later on andonce you practice, once we
practice, then it's easy topractice again.
That's part of the teaching.
So when a child doesn't followthe rules, doesn't follow the
procedures, then that's a timeto pull them aside.
Maybe they do a little time out.
(12:03):
We talk about what went wrongand then they practice.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I know this was the greatest part of being able to
use PBIS to teach thosebehaviors, because if we did the
playground rules or we did thehallway rules and we had gone
through all of that, everybodywas very aware of that.
But that children are children,okay, they may not do that.
They may come in, they maystart running down the halls or
they may be making too manypaper towel things all the way
(12:30):
down or not following the ruleson the playground.
Well, now we're not just introuble, we need to practice,
because you apparently don'tknow the rules.
So we take that little groupaside and in a different time of
the day and we take them outand we practice the rules.
Now, no student wants to dothat.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So that is a good way .
And they don't want to do itfour or five times.
No, they do not.
They might practice lining uponce.
But then you say, okay, go runout onto the playground again
and when we blow the whistlecome back.
And then they do, and then wesay, let's do it again, let's do
it again, or we walk up anddown the steps three or four or
five times, walking, not jumpingup and down the steps To show
(13:13):
how we do it, to show how we doit.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So you really have to do all the common areas.
So coming in in the morning,how do you want them to do that
If you want them to walk up acertain sidewalk?
I mean all of those things youneed to have in your mind
already, rules and procedures,so that you can practice.
Now we also because we wantparents, because sometimes
(13:34):
sometimes parents will say whydid my student get in trouble
for four pulls on the papertowel?
Or you know, it's a bunch ofsoap.
At least they're clean, okay.
So what we did was we also madevideos.
So we took classes that signedup for it and we had the classes
make videos of thoseexpectations doing it correctly,
(13:57):
put it on our website so thatif a parent was like I'm not
quite sure or new students, it'sfabulous for new students and
then they can click right onthat link expectations for the
hallway, expectations forarrival and dismissal and then
it's very clearly done and not along video a minute, minute and
a half but it shows theclassroom doing it.
(14:19):
And that way that would beanother big takeaway from us.
It's not only the boot camp butputting the videos in place.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And then you know this really just helps the
community at large.
Our families know everythingthat we expect, but then it also
helps any new staff coming intothe building Absolutely that's
training.
They can watch these videos.
We have lesson plans that goalong with them.
Those are also on our websiteand then you know our teachers
review these.
So maybe the classroom haspracticed quite a bit, but we're
(14:49):
struggling a little bit inNovember.
You know the teacher might bringup the video as a reminder,
because the kids have practicedquite a bit and so that's a good
way to use it, and then, if itstill doesn't work, then we go
out and physically practice.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So the videos are really nice, Really like.
We talked about that two fullweeks.
A lot of our teachers thoughtthat was overkill too, but then
the next year you don't have topractice this much.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, that's the genius of this again, because
you don't change things.
We have had the same matrix inplace for nine or 10 years, the
same big three roles be safe,responsible and respectful.
So now we spend one day Well,actually one day going over
everything and practicing withall the grade levels, but then
(15:36):
after that we practice a lotwith kindergarten and, you know,
a couple of days with firstgrade, because first grade had
it before as kindergarten.
But what we find is we're notspending two weeks at all
because nothing's changed.
We're doing taking our trays upthe same way we did nine years
ago.
We still expect walking in thehallway.
We still expect three pulls ofthe paper towels.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Absolutely.
Those rules don't change and weexpect teachers, if they're
going down the hallway and kidsare starting to talk, they stop,
maybe even go back to theirroom, start over, but make sure
that that is the that's theprocedure that we expect.
So having those expectations,doing those, practicing, that is
a huge part of tier one.
(16:19):
The second part of tier onethat's super important from the
office Remember, this is allabout, this is all about the
office helping the teachers getthese expectations in place Is
office managed and staff managedbehaviors.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So I'm going to let Diane talk again.
She's the admin here, Talkabout how we came up with that
and what that was all about.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Well, you know the staff managed and office managed
.
We have that defined.
We were calling them the majorsand minors and define the
behaviors.
As things progress they changethe terminology.
But you know, in your buildingyou need to define all of the
behaviors, the misbehaviors andwhat you're going to do.
(17:04):
And last, week.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Mrs Miller said that that was defined at the middle
school.
So if you're a middle schooland a high school you may have
that already, but at anelementary it was a little bit
more muddy so we didn't quitehave.
These are exactly the behaviorsthat constitute an office
referral and these are.
It was more up to teacherinterpretation, which we
definitely with teacher input.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yes, and that's that's part of the big five of
the tier.
One is making sure that youhave defined the behaviors
through staff managed and officemanaged behaviors, so teachers
understand that, and then alsohaving that flow chart to
understand when do you send achild down to the office, when
(17:48):
do you handle it in yourclassroom.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And we put something else in there that not all
buildings have.
It's kind of buddy teachertimeout.
So years ago, years and yearsago, we went to a workshop where
they put this in as a middleschool thing.
And um, uh Dyn and I boththought now, how can we?
We do a lot of that, like, howcan we make this work for
elementary?
So, um, I'm going to includethe actual um website that shows
(18:14):
you the research behind that.
But what a buddy teacher, intiny words, is that you have a
teacher in your grade level thatyou do not switch classes with.
So it's not something that thatstudent sees all the time but
is close.
That is your buddy teachertimeout.
So if that student is has arepetitive behavior but it's not
an office managed behavior yousend them to a buddy teacher
(18:38):
timeout and what that does isthat that teacher's ready, they
go over there, they spend sometime in that, uh, that alternate
classroom.
They also may.
We'll write down a little bitabout what they did.
There's a format, this is allpracticed.
So teachers understand theytake students back and forth and
that way that student is notgoing to the office, not taking
(18:58):
that whole time out ofinstruction, that they're out of
their room for a little bitgiving the student a timeout,
you a timeout, and then they'reback in their class and they may
be listening to instruction,but that's also their grade
level and they probably needthat instruction anyway.
So, buddy, teacher timeout hasa lot of research base behind it
and I am going to include thelink on our website.
(19:20):
So if you'd like to put thatinto place.
But that's on our flow chartand that would be a step from
classroom managed before officemanaged.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes, yes, the buddy teacher timeout is a great
concept and uh, you know, thatway kids aren't missing so much
instruction because I got to godown the office.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
they got to wait on the principal.
They might sit and enjoy alittle office time yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Unfortunately, they like.
They like the distraction, theylike to watch what's going on?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Bug the secretaries.
You know the things you know,and so this is a way to get down
here.
Right, no, not any more thanthey have to be.
Um, so, uh, I guess what?
Our last thing we want to talkabout a little bit is, whenever
we have guests, we give a Y andwe give an aha.
Well, we're the guests today.
Okay, so, dying our own guess.
(20:08):
But we did this on purposebecause this was something we
were taking from the teacherinput, but we were the ones kind
of putting it in place with MrScott, so he was a big part of
that, but also our principal.
But our why?
So I'm gonna do the why.
The why is we needed buildingwide rules and procedures and we
(20:30):
needed them to be followed.
So that was our why.
So we had a large building,lots of kids.
We had decided on theprocedures, our matrix.
We needed to now put them inplace.
So we needed this boot camp andthat was our term.
Diane thought it up, so it wasour term.
That didn't come from anywhere,but it was so great how we
called it and we still.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
We do boot camps a lot.
We just did.
I just did a boot camp with ourthird grade about a week ago
because we had some kids justagain leaving the cafeteria, not
walking from the cafeteria tothe playground quietly.
They were running and kind ofyelling and our aides had asked
them to stop.
(21:11):
And then again the next day ithappened again.
So then they came to me.
They will also go to Mrs Miller.
It's really important againthat the principals be involved
in that.
So I showed up the next daybecause Mrs Miller had something
else going and when it was timeto clean up third grade to
clean up, they had to, becausehe's a little painful whenever
(21:35):
you have to use a little bit ofrecess time to practice.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Oh, so painful, especially in elementary school.
We love that so much Littlepainful.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So we make it a little painful.
We reminded I reminded them ofthe way that we were supposed to
walk out of the cafeteriaquietly and that we were going
to practice.
And so we did that.
We went outside, we lined upand then we came back in,
because that's the most painfulpart.
We came back in, we sat down atthe table, then we lined up a
second time, walked outside,then they could play and we used
(22:05):
about five to seven minutes oftheir recess.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
But do not think that this is only an elementary
thing.
Do this with middle school andhigh schoolers.
They won't like it either.
They will understand theimportance of procedures.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And now you know, what I told my aides is that
there might be a few childrenthat need a third practice or, I
guess, a second practice on thenext day.
So if we have trouble again,but really pay attention to if
it's a certain class or acertain group of kids, because I
really didn't want to practicewith the whole grade- level.
I wanted to practice with thosechildren that just need the
(22:37):
practice and they said you know,things were good.
Now we're coming up on Decemberand December is a very exciting
month for all of us.
And there's going to be lots ofpracticing going around.
You know, we just need to do it, we need to just pull it back
in.
So you know, sometimes thestaff thinks well, we've
(23:01):
practiced this 555 times, why dowe have to do it again?
Why don't they get it?
Well, they're children and weneed to be reminded.
So take the time to practice.
Practice, you will feel better.
The adult will feel better.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Absolutely.
And then we're not justpunishing, we're instructing.
Now Diane's going to say an aha, because she's going to go to a
little Swiss data, which Ithink is just wonderful.
So you can't see this but,she's going to explain it to you
.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
So in our data there is what's called the triangle
data report and that measuresyour tier one.
And so picture a triangle andyou want your triangle to be,
you know, all green.
Maybe at the very tip top mightbe a little yellow and a tiny
bit of red.
This is how you know you have areally good tier one system.
(23:50):
So we watch our triangle andafter the first year I would say
after that, our triangle hasreally always been pretty good.
But I was just sharing withDiane before we started that
it's extremely good this year.
I'm very excited about itBecause you know, we're a
building of.
We've dropped in enrollment, sowe're down to about 800 now,
(24:11):
kindergarten through fifth grade, but so far this year we have
only had 48 students with oneoffice managed referral.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's entirely since August.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That's wonderful, that's 97% of our students have
not had one single referral.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
And so picture that triangle.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I wish our reading triangle looks so good Sometimes
when your academic triangle.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So then, if we moved to two to five referrals, we've
only had 16 children in thebuilding, half two to five, so
that's, you know, 2.4% of that.
And then six to eight referrals, we've had just five children
and one child over nine.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So I mean, you just look at that data.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay, that's showing you that your tier one is
working.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So when we talked last week about data, data, data
, there's your aha, becausewhenever you, whenever you're
looking at things, you look atthat data and you go what we're
doing is working.
So, as always, we like to havetakeaways, and our takeaway from
this podcast is it's all aboutthe beginnings.
It really is.
You need a matrix of your rules.
(25:28):
We've established that by yourstaff, but the genius is in the
bootcamp.
You need to practice.
You need to go through thoseprocedures in place.
Everyone needs to be involvedand the admin needs to have the
stamp on it.
They really do.
They need to lead it For sure.
They need to put that stamp onit.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Well, all right, this has been a good podcast.
It gets me all excited.
I love tier one.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I know and you know what, even though, like I said,
we will recap again.
When we started PBIS, we wantedto weed through to how do we
deal with those kids that arecausing problems.
We really, I know, remembersaying why do we need to do a
bronze?
We need to go on to tier two.
But we found out tier one is soimportant and it took care,
(26:14):
like we said before, a lot ofthose bubble behavior kids were
taken care of by those tier one.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So a strong tier one, a strong practicing, is so
important and you know anotherpart of the tier one is the
acknowledgement system.
Which we're gonna talk aboutnext week, which we're going to
talk about next week and thenthat really helps motivate those
kids on the edge.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Right, because now they know what to do.
You've practiced it andpracticed it.
Now we're gonna do theacknowledge system.
So next week we're gonna havesome teachers in here to talk
about that and how it works inthe little grades, and then
we're gonna move on to the uppergrades.
So that's all we have for thisweek's episode.
My name is Diane Farrell.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
And I'm Diane Ruff.
We'll see you next time onJourney to Genius.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Thanks so much, bye-bye.
Welcome to PBIS.
Journey to Genius.
Are you in the process ofimplementing PBIS?
Are you wondering where tostart?
You are in the right place.
We are here to support you.
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right, welcome everyone to PBIS, our Journey to
Genius.
I'm Diane Farrell and I'm herewith Diane Ruff, and we are two
educators that have workedtogether for many years and we
started a Positive BehaviorIntervention and Support System
several years ago.
That's helped our schoolreceive many awards and we are
(00:55):
doing a podcast every week toshare our trials and successes
so that you might use these tohelp you in your Positive
Behavior Intervention Journey.
So every week we have someguests on, but this week it's
just going to be Diane and I, sowe're going to talk just us,
but we're going to let Dianerecap our guest and what was
said last week.
So, Diane, what did we talkabout?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Well, last week we talked about the importance of
data and our assistant principalwas here, mrs Miller, and she
shared, you know, the importanceof looking at data because that
drives everything that we doand that's the genius part of
the genius of PBIS is pouringthrough that data, looking for
maybe parts of your Tier 1 thataren't working so well, or
(01:39):
there's a child that's meltingdown at a certain time.
Your data can tell you so muchand when you study your data
then it's going to help youcreate that plan for the Tier 1,
or even for a behavior plan foranother child.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And we talked about a program last week called SWIS.
Okay, and that is really easyto use and we have loved using
it and it gives a lot ofinformation to share with your
teams, with your staff.
It's very easy to do that.
So if you do get on PBIS SWISnot like Switzerland and it will
(02:16):
, we've just used it a lot.
But whatever you use, data isvery important to show that your
system is working.
So today we're going to moveaway from that system and we're
going to talk about Tier 1.
So when Don and I were startingthis years and years ago and if
you use our listen to ourpodcast, you'll know why we
(02:37):
started it but we knew that wehad to start a Tier 1.
Now I know that whenever you'restarting PBIS, you might sit
there and go, but I really wantto address the kids that are
having problems.
You know it's okay what we dowith everybody else.
I need to know what to do forthis student who's under the
desk or won't stop moving ortalking out.
(02:59):
But the trouble is, pbisemphasizes the importance of
Tier 1.
And Tier 1, if you do it welland consistent throughout your
building can take care a lot ofthose Tier 2-ish kids and will
control those behaviors.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Absolutely so.
Where we started inimplementing our Tier 1 was, we
decided after we created thematrix and we talked about the
behaviors that we expect in allthe different areas of the
building and what that behaviorlooks like, how it feels, you
know, seeing it in action.
We then thought the next stepis to practice it, physically
(03:38):
practice it, so we called it aboot camp.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
We did.
Diane actually came up withthat.
We were like perfect becauseshe said she goes boot camp.
That's where they go andpractice to be in the military.
So we're going to practice, sowe called it our PBIS boot camp.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
And so what we did is we, you know we talked to the
teachers again about the matrixand just what they need to do in
their classrooms and a lot ofteachers, as you heard in prior
episodes, you know teachers hadsome things under control in the
classroom, but we were reallyconcerned about the main areas
of the building.
We were very concerned aboutthe behaviors in the bathroom
(04:17):
because you all know, if youwork with children, especially
elementary, the long poles ofthe paper towels across the
hallway and the soap towerseverywhere you know they like to
do those and kind of wear themlike a beard on your face.
The running in the hallway,because a long hallway looks
like a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And we have long hallways.
We do in this building, youknow.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And then our cafeteria.
We had a free for all, really,in the cafeteria we would just
dismiss and kids, we wouldexpect kids to go up and drop
their trays off.
Well, elementary kids run intoeach other, they drop their
trays.
It's a big mess and we thought,you know, we need procedures
for that.
So there were a lot of ahamoments in the beginning when we
were creating our matrix.
So we have that all designed.
(05:00):
But the next step was how do weget children to do it?
We do it through a boot camp.
We practice physically,practice doing it, and that was
an eye-opener for us, becausewe're used to telling children
what they need to do.
We do and then we just expect itto do it just because we tell
(05:21):
them to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
But that's not the way we learned that very clearly
that you can't just go over aset of rules one time and expect
them to do it and tell aboutthat algebra class video that
you found.
So this was another, very youknow it was like genius again,
because it was so simple.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And yet, as we all sat there and watched this video
, none of us had ever thought todo it.
But it was a video where amiddle school algebra teacher.
He was teaching the rules andprocedures for his classroom and
the very first procedure wasafter switching classes, you did
not enter his classroom, youstood in the hallway in a
straight line and you got quietand you had to stand there and
(06:01):
then he would invite you in.
So he was practicing this.
He was making his seventh andeighth grade students practice
this, so they would start tocome in to the room.
If one person talked, he wouldstop them.
He would say we need topractice again.
Everybody back out in thehallway, everybody line up, and
(06:21):
then, when everyone was quiet,he would send them in again.
When someone talked, he wouldstop them, send them back out,
line up against the wall, wait asecond or two till everyone was
quiet, because he did not sendthem in until everyone was quiet
.
You, I forget how that goes.
We expect.
We get what we expect.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, and he said that on there.
And I know that even when I waswatching the video, you got to
the point why don't you just lethim in the room?
Okay, but it was, it was agenius, he said.
He actually did it 25 times 25times Now.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
we didn't watch that happen 25 times but we watched
that video and it was justeye-opening.
And I think I made theconnection then to the daily
five.
And some of you might knowabout the daily five.
But there is a part in thedaily five where you teach
stamina and you teach childrento silently read.
You know, and so if you're, youknow, I was a second grade
(07:17):
teacher you know how do you justget children to sit at their
desk quietly and read silentlyfor 10 minutes?
Well, it never happens.
Well, because I never taughtthem.
Well, in the daily five.
It's the same concept.
You come over, you gatheraround the teacher, you talk
about what you're going to doand then you send everybody out
and everybody's reading.
But the minute someone talksyou come back and you start
(07:39):
again and you try to work upmore time.
So you know, maybe you're goingto read, you tell the class
we're going to read for fiveminutes, but if someone talks
within that five minutes, youpull everybody back, you start
the timer again and send themback out.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So children start to get very irritated with the ones
they do because they don't wantto keep starting over.
And there's peer pressure there, right, Because others like,
don't talk, we don't want to dothis over.
So we really wanted teachers tobuy into that.
Because it was so importantthat first year?
Because, remember, nobody noneof the students you know, and we
(08:14):
had 900 students in thisbuilding None of them knew the
rules.
So this first boot camp mayseem painful, but every year
after you're going to have awhole bank of students that know
the rules.
So it's not.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And we didn't practice just one day.
We created a schedule and wetold the teachers give us two
weeks you know this is two weeksat the beginning of the school
year.
We're not pulling from academics, we're teaching routines and
procedures.
Do that in your classroom.
We will do it here, in the bigparts of the building the
cafeteria, the playground, thebus hallway, the bus and then we
(08:52):
would pull grade levels down orclassrooms down, and we would
practice every single day.
We would practice taking ourtray up.
We would in the cafeteria, wewould go out onto the playground
and we would send them out,blow the whistle to send them
out to play, and then we wouldhave them come back and line up
and we would do that five or sixtimes, so until everyone lined
(09:13):
up quietly.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And an important part of this.
So you know, like Diane was theadmin there.
It was important that the adminwas there because that also
puts the stamp on it.
You know, it's not just theteacher saying it, it is the
admin.
And the other thing that we didthat I thought was so important
is, if you have recess aides oryou have cafeteria aides, she
(09:35):
paid them to come in if that wasearly and be a part of that,
because if they're in charge ofthe playground or they're in
charge of the cafeteria, theyhave to be there for those
practices and it's good for thecafeteria workers to see it
because that's where yourenforcement's going to happen.
But they have to have thatbuy-in and they have to see it.
(09:55):
You can't just tell them aboutit Like.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
they have to see it happening and be a part of it
and you know, and I think theteachers realize, when we kept
calling.
You know we created a two weekschedule, so every day the
teachers knew at a certain timethey were going to bring their
class down to practice eithercafeteria procedures or
playground procedures.
But then they also real, theywere responsible to teach the
bathroom procedures.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes, they did do the bathroom on their own.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
But I think they you know.
Instead, when we just tellpeople things, it doesn't always
work.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You've got to model it Because their interpretations
, your interpretation, are twodifferent things.
But if you model it I'm avision learner, you know I need
to see.
A lot of people just can't hearbecause you hear it in
different ways.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So I think the teachers then got it kind of
like oh, that's what you'retalking about.
You know what I need to practice?
Literally practice bathroomprocedures every single day for
two weeks and you'll recall thatif you've listened to earlier
episodes that Mrs Hunt talkedabout, you know practicing the
three poles of the paper town,one square to scope, that we
spent time doing that.
(10:55):
Teachers did that, but I thinkwhen they saw the office, the
admin, making it a goal, makingit important, then they realize,
oh, we need to do this in thehallway.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So that's why our big you know every podcast we want
big takeaways.
So a big takeaway on this, ifyou're looking to do it, is one
spending the time, the effort inthe boot camp and to have your
admin there, because it reallyis important.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's very important for the admin and teachers will
then take that what I'll say toadmin.
You need to take the time to dothis.
This is absolutely the mostimportant thing you'll do in
running a building, because it'sgoing to being proactive, saves
you everything it absolutelydoes.
Reactive, then you get muddleddown in all the reactivity of
(11:42):
all the behaviors later on andonce you practice, once we
practice, then it's easy topractice again.
That's part of the teaching.
So when a child doesn't followthe rules, doesn't follow the
procedures, then that's a timeto pull them aside.
Maybe they do a little time out.
(12:03):
We talk about what went wrongand then they practice.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I know this was the greatest part of being able to
use PBIS to teach thosebehaviors, because if we did the
playground rules or we did thehallway rules and we had gone
through all of that, everybodywas very aware of that.
But that children are children,okay, they may not do that.
They may come in, they maystart running down the halls or
they may be making too manypaper towel things all the way
(12:30):
down or not following the ruleson the playground.
Well, now we're not just introuble, we need to practice,
because you apparently don'tknow the rules.
So we take that little groupaside and in a different time of
the day and we take them outand we practice the rules.
Now, no student wants to dothat.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So that is a good way .
And they don't want to do itfour or five times.
No, they do not.
They might practice lining uponce.
But then you say, okay, go runout onto the playground again
and when we blow the whistlecome back.
And then they do, and then wesay, let's do it again, let's do
it again, or we walk up anddown the steps three or four or
five times, walking, not jumpingup and down the steps To show
(13:13):
how we do it, to show how we doit.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So you really have to do all the common areas.
So coming in in the morning,how do you want them to do that
If you want them to walk up acertain sidewalk?
I mean all of those things youneed to have in your mind
already, rules and procedures,so that you can practice.
Now we also because we wantparents, because sometimes
(13:34):
sometimes parents will say whydid my student get in trouble
for four pulls on the papertowel?
Or you know, it's a bunch ofsoap.
At least they're clean, okay.
So what we did was we also madevideos.
So we took classes that signedup for it and we had the classes
make videos of thoseexpectations doing it correctly,
(13:57):
put it on our website so thatif a parent was like I'm not
quite sure or new students, it'sfabulous for new students and
then they can click right onthat link expectations for the
hallway, expectations forarrival and dismissal and then
it's very clearly done and not along video a minute, minute and
a half but it shows theclassroom doing it.
(14:19):
And that way that would beanother big takeaway from us.
It's not only the boot camp butputting the videos in place.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And then you know this really just helps the
community at large.
Our families know everythingthat we expect, but then it also
helps any new staff coming intothe building Absolutely that's
training.
They can watch these videos.
We have lesson plans that goalong with them.
Those are also on our websiteand then you know our teachers
review these.
So maybe the classroom haspracticed quite a bit, but we're
(14:49):
struggling a little bit inNovember.
You know the teacher might bringup the video as a reminder,
because the kids have practicedquite a bit and so that's a good
way to use it, and then, if itstill doesn't work, then we go
out and physically practice.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So the videos are really nice, Really like.
We talked about that two fullweeks.
A lot of our teachers thoughtthat was overkill too, but then
the next year you don't have topractice this much.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, that's the genius of this again, because
you don't change things.
We have had the same matrix inplace for nine or 10 years, the
same big three roles be safe,responsible and respectful.
So now we spend one day Well,actually one day going over
everything and practicing withall the grade levels, but then
(15:36):
after that we practice a lotwith kindergarten and, you know,
a couple of days with firstgrade, because first grade had
it before as kindergarten.
But what we find is we're notspending two weeks at all
because nothing's changed.
We're doing taking our trays upthe same way we did nine years
ago.
We still expect walking in thehallway.
We still expect three pulls ofthe paper towels.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Absolutely.
Those rules don't change and weexpect teachers, if they're
going down the hallway and kidsare starting to talk, they stop,
maybe even go back to theirroom, start over, but make sure
that that is the that's theprocedure that we expect.
So having those expectations,doing those, practicing, that is
a huge part of tier one.
(16:19):
The second part of tier onethat's super important from the
office Remember, this is allabout, this is all about the
office helping the teachers getthese expectations in place Is
office managed and staff managedbehaviors.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So I'm going to let Diane talk again.
She's the admin here, Talkabout how we came up with that
and what that was all about.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Well, you know the staff managed and office managed
.
We have that defined.
We were calling them the majorsand minors and define the
behaviors.
As things progress they changethe terminology.
But you know, in your buildingyou need to define all of the
behaviors, the misbehaviors andwhat you're going to do.
(17:04):
And last, week.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Mrs Miller said that that was defined at the middle
school.
So if you're a middle schooland a high school you may have
that already, but at anelementary it was a little bit
more muddy so we didn't quitehave.
These are exactly the behaviorsthat constitute an office
referral and these are.
It was more up to teacherinterpretation, which we
definitely with teacher input.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yes, and that's that's part of the big five of
the tier.
One is making sure that youhave defined the behaviors
through staff managed and officemanaged behaviors, so teachers
understand that, and then alsohaving that flow chart to
understand when do you send achild down to the office, when
(17:48):
do you handle it in yourclassroom.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And we put something else in there that not all
buildings have.
It's kind of buddy teachertimeout.
So years ago, years and yearsago, we went to a workshop where
they put this in as a middleschool thing.
And um, uh Dyn and I boththought now, how can we?
We do a lot of that, like, howcan we make this work for
elementary?
So, um, I'm going to includethe actual um website that shows
(18:14):
you the research behind that.
But what a buddy teacher, intiny words, is that you have a
teacher in your grade level thatyou do not switch classes with.
So it's not something that thatstudent sees all the time but
is close.
That is your buddy teachertimeout.
So if that student is has arepetitive behavior but it's not
an office managed behavior yousend them to a buddy teacher
(18:38):
timeout and what that does isthat that teacher's ready, they
go over there, they spend sometime in that, uh, that alternate
classroom.
They also may.
We'll write down a little bitabout what they did.
There's a format, this is allpracticed.
So teachers understand theytake students back and forth and
that way that student is notgoing to the office, not taking
(18:58):
that whole time out ofinstruction, that they're out of
their room for a little bitgiving the student a timeout,
you a timeout, and then they'reback in their class and they may
be listening to instruction,but that's also their grade
level and they probably needthat instruction anyway.
So, buddy, teacher timeout hasa lot of research base behind it
and I am going to include thelink on our website.
(19:20):
So if you'd like to put thatinto place.
But that's on our flow chartand that would be a step from
classroom managed before officemanaged.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes, yes, the buddy teacher timeout is a great
concept and uh, you know, thatway kids aren't missing so much
instruction because I got to godown the office.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
they got to wait on the principal.
They might sit and enjoy alittle office time yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Unfortunately, they like.
They like the distraction, theylike to watch what's going on?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Bug the secretaries.
You know the things you know,and so this is a way to get down
here.
Right, no, not any more thanthey have to be.
Um, so, uh, I guess what?
Our last thing we want to talkabout a little bit is, whenever
we have guests, we give a Y andwe give an aha.
Well, we're the guests today.
Okay, so, dying our own guess.
(20:08):
But we did this on purposebecause this was something we
were taking from the teacherinput, but we were the ones kind
of putting it in place with MrScott, so he was a big part of
that, but also our principal.
But our why?
So I'm gonna do the why.
The why is we needed buildingwide rules and procedures and we
(20:30):
needed them to be followed.
So that was our why.
So we had a large building,lots of kids.
We had decided on theprocedures, our matrix.
We needed to now put them inplace.
So we needed this boot camp andthat was our term.
Diane thought it up, so it wasour term.
That didn't come from anywhere,but it was so great how we
called it and we still.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
We do boot camps a lot.
We just did.
I just did a boot camp with ourthird grade about a week ago
because we had some kids justagain leaving the cafeteria, not
walking from the cafeteria tothe playground quietly.
They were running and kind ofyelling and our aides had asked
them to stop.
(21:11):
And then again the next day ithappened again.
So then they came to me.
They will also go to Mrs Miller.
It's really important againthat the principals be involved
in that.
So I showed up the next daybecause Mrs Miller had something
else going and when it was timeto clean up third grade to
clean up, they had to, becausehe's a little painful whenever
(21:35):
you have to use a little bit ofrecess time to practice.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Oh, so painful, especially in elementary school.
We love that so much Littlepainful.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So we make it a little painful.
We reminded I reminded them ofthe way that we were supposed to
walk out of the cafeteriaquietly and that we were going
to practice.
And so we did that.
We went outside, we lined upand then we came back in,
because that's the most painfulpart.
We came back in, we sat down atthe table, then we lined up a
second time, walked outside,then they could play and we used
(22:05):
about five to seven minutes oftheir recess.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
But do not think that this is only an elementary
thing.
Do this with middle school andhigh schoolers.
They won't like it either.
They will understand theimportance of procedures.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And now you know, what I told my aides is that
there might be a few childrenthat need a third practice or, I
guess, a second practice on thenext day.
So if we have trouble again,but really pay attention to if
it's a certain class or acertain group of kids, because I
really didn't want to practicewith the whole grade- level.
I wanted to practice with thosechildren that just need the
(22:37):
practice and they said you know,things were good.
Now we're coming up on Decemberand December is a very exciting
month for all of us.
And there's going to be lots ofpracticing going around.
You know, we just need to do it, we need to just pull it back
in.
So you know, sometimes thestaff thinks well, we've
(23:01):
practiced this 555 times, why dowe have to do it again?
Why don't they get it?
Well, they're children and weneed to be reminded.
So take the time to practice.
Practice, you will feel better.
The adult will feel better.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Absolutely.
And then we're not justpunishing, we're instructing.
Now Diane's going to say an aha, because she's going to go to a
little Swiss data, which Ithink is just wonderful.
So you can't see this but,she's going to explain it to you
.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
So in our data there is what's called the triangle
data report and that measuresyour tier one.
And so picture a triangle andyou want your triangle to be,
you know, all green.
Maybe at the very tip top mightbe a little yellow and a tiny
bit of red.
This is how you know you have areally good tier one system.
(23:50):
So we watch our triangle andafter the first year I would say
after that, our triangle hasreally always been pretty good.
But I was just sharing withDiane before we started that
it's extremely good this year.
I'm very excited about itBecause you know, we're a
building of.
We've dropped in enrollment, sowe're down to about 800 now,
(24:11):
kindergarten through fifth grade, but so far this year we have
only had 48 students with oneoffice managed referral.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's entirely since August.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That's wonderful, that's 97% of our students have
not had one single referral.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
And so picture that triangle.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I wish our reading triangle looks so good Sometimes
when your academic triangle.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So then, if we moved to two to five referrals, we've
only had 16 children in thebuilding, half two to five, so
that's, you know, 2.4% of that.
And then six to eight referrals, we've had just five children
and one child over nine.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So I mean, you just look at that data.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay, that's showing you that your tier one is
working.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So when we talked last week about data, data, data
, there's your aha, becausewhenever you, whenever you're
looking at things, you look atthat data and you go what we're
doing is working.
So, as always, we like to havetakeaways, and our takeaway from
this podcast is it's all aboutthe beginnings.
It really is.
You need a matrix of your rules.
(25:28):
We've established that by yourstaff, but the genius is in the
bootcamp.
You need to practice.
You need to go through thoseprocedures in place.
Everyone needs to be involvedand the admin needs to have the
stamp on it.
They really do.
They need to lead it For sure.
They need to put that stamp onit.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Well, all right, this has been a good podcast.
It gets me all excited.
I love tier one.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I know and you know what, even though, like I said,
we will recap again.
When we started PBIS, we wantedto weed through to how do we
deal with those kids that arecausing problems.
We really, I know, remembersaying why do we need to do a
bronze?
We need to go on to tier two.
But we found out tier one is soimportant and it took care,
(26:14):
like we said before, a lot ofthose bubble behavior kids were
taken care of by those tier one.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So a strong tier one, a strong practicing, is so
important and you know anotherpart of the tier one is the
acknowledgement system.
Which we're gonna talk aboutnext week, which we're going to
talk about next week and thenthat really helps motivate those
kids on the edge.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Right, because now they know what to do.
You've practiced it andpracticed it.
Now we're gonna do theacknowledge system.
So next week we're gonna havesome teachers in here to talk
about that and how it works inthe little grades, and then
we're gonna move on to the uppergrades.
So that's all we have for thisweek's episode.
My name is Diane Farrell.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
And I'm Diane Ruff.
We'll see you next time onJourney to Genius.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Thanks so much, bye-bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.