December 1, 2022 • 31 mins
It's hard to believe, but 2023 is just around the corner. In HR circles, that means one thing: time to start preparing for the future! What can you expect over the next few years? Join John Baldino, Josh Rock, and host Shari Simpson as they discuss a few predictions.
Guest(s):
John Baldino, President, Humareso
John founded Humareso to strategize with companies to develop plans to manage talent, recruit for skills gaps based on employee inventories, assess markets for growth, develop long-range succession plans and influence a culture of enthusiastic buy-in. Humareso provides outsourced human resource services, including its flagship HRO plan, which helps businesses save money, increase productivity, and reduce legal risks by providing dedicated HR consulting for compliance, training, performance management, employee relations, workplace management, discipline and other important HR best practices.
John has a Bachelor's degree in English and a Master's degree in HR Development and has 27 years of experience in Human Resources. His areas of expertise include Performance and Change Management, Organizational Development, Leadership Development, etc.
Josh Rock, Talent Acquisition Manager, Nuss Truck Group Inc.
Josh Rock is the Talent Acquisition Manager with Nuss Truck & Equipment in Minnesota. Josh is also the lead moderator of JobHuntChat, the longest weekly job advice chat on Twitter for the past 11 years. Josh’s infectious energy and enthusiasm for career advancement & discovery lead him to speak to scores of colleges and job-seeking groups across the US.
Mentioned in the episode:
- Humareso: https://humareso.com/
- Nuss Truck Group Inc: https://www.nussgrp.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
- [Shari] Hey, and welcome to PCTY Talks.
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,
we'll stay close to the newsand info you need to succeed
as an HR pro.
And together we'll exploretopics around HR thought
leadership, compliance,
and real life HR situationswe face every day.
(00:28):
Joining me on the podcasttoday is John Baldino,
president at Humareso, and Josh Rock,
talent Acquisition Manager atNuss Truck Group Incorporated.
So John and Josh,
thanks so much for taking afew minutes of your crazy days
to spend some time with meon the podcast talking about
trends for 2023 in HR.
(00:49):
- [Josh] Awesome. Thanks for having me.
- [Shari] Yeah.
So, we are doing a webinar onthis in a couple days here.
And it's funny because usuallyby this time of the year,
I feel like I've seenmultiple blog articles,
and research coming out like,hey, what's coming for 2023?
And it's really light this year.
A lot of people haven't kindof put a stake in the ground
as to like what we should expect for 2023.
(01:11):
Why do you guys think that is?
- [Josh] I'm seeing some carryover
stuff that they didn't get done for 22
because of the chaos ofwhether it was people
working from home or reductions in force
that they're just like, hey,
we're just going to quietlytiptoe all of our projects
into 23.
I mean, I could name some names,
(01:31):
but maybe we can get to that in a bit.
- [John] Yeah, I mean, I'll name too.
Honestly, I know I was messing around,
but I do think that people are afraid
for two reasons.
One, it's sort of quietlyunstable in the economy
at the moment.
And what I mean by quietly isI think there's sort of like
(01:54):
competing agendas.
And so the messaging issort of a little convoluted,
but I think that that's partof the reason why we're seeing
the layoffs at this time
that we're seeing from some companies.
And I'm going to say large and small,
and I know the large ones make the news,
but small companies arelaying people off as well.
And so I think people are a little afraid
(02:14):
to make predictions becausethe ground is unsettled.
And we also are in a world where
if you say it and it doesn't come true,
like then you're afraidyour street cred goes away.
And we have to be a littlenicer to one another.
- [Shari] Oh, I completely agree.
It's interesting, theunsteady ground thing.
I was looking at justthe news this morning,
(02:38):
and Twitter laid off a bunch of people,
obviously with Elon Musk taking over,
Facebook slash Metaversejust let go of what,
13,000 I think was thenumber I saw this morning.
- [John] 11 or 13. A lot.
- [Shari] A lot of people,
and what's interesting is theywere hiring as of 12 months
ago, they were ramping up and hiring.
So I completely agreethat there's this slowing
(03:02):
of things that's happening,and so we have to adjust to it.
- [John] Well, and Ithink part of the trend is
this is a course correction.
So, I mean, Josh and I,
I know we talked about this a while ago,
but we spent a lot of moneyon talent earlier this year
to get people 'cause wewere so desperate for folks
that the compensation
(03:24):
bands that were beingused grew a lot and yeah.
And so we knew thatcompanies were going to,
especially the larger ones,
going to have to dealwith budgets and say,
we can't afford to keep this up,
so we're going to have to cut people,
and then we can level setwhere the rate of pay is
back to something we can afford long term.
(03:45):
- [Josh] Yeah. The greed in excesses
is like the rubber bandthat's snapping back,
and hitting you square in their back end.
Companies that were smartaren't going to see that nearly
as much, much like my organization,
we've grown rightfully, we'vedone pay within the realm
(04:05):
that we should be.
So we shouldn't see that.
Now, obviously transportationis near recession proof.
I mean, you look throughthe pandemic and people
still needed to get tele paper,
so we were still busy fixingtrucks so they could get there.
But yeah, I mean, you'regoing to see some of that snap
back there.
People were desperate, theywere overpaying, as John said,
people thought they could get it.
(04:26):
Well, now what happenson their side as talent
when they're getting laid off,
and they're not makingthe pay that they thought
they were going to makebecause they thought they could
get what they could get it.It's going to be interesting.
- [Shari] I think you're right though
about organizations who were alittle more forward thinking.
I'm fortunate that Iworked for an organization
that at the verybeginning of the pandemic,
(04:48):
their motto was, we're notgoing to lay anybody off.
We're going to figure out howto get through the pandemic
and not lay anybody off.
And they also took a conservativeapproach to the other side
is to bring in talent.
We're not going to over inflatewhat we're paying people
because we know it's, like you said,
we know it's going to snap back.
And so we're going to behurting in a different way
(05:08):
if we do that.
- [John] And I think too,
and this will be an unpopular opinion,
and so I can't help it,
and I'm too old to careabout street credit anymore.
I mean, I think that part ofit, oh, Josh, you're so kind.
Part of it is this demandcentric consideration
(05:32):
that candidates have right now.
You're not the prettiestdude for the dance anymore.
Like, you're going to haveto just deal with the fact
that yes, it felt reallygood eight months ago
that everybody wantedyou, you were up for,
homecoming king or queen orwhatever thing has been like
(05:53):
tapped into for you to have.
And now you're not as popular.
You can't call the shots as much.
I mean, I talked to somebodylast week who was like,
John, I'm looking for,
this kind of role at 175,000 plus equity
in the organization.
I never want to come into the office.
(06:13):
I'm looking for benefits to becovered for my entire family.
And I'm like, me too, Whitney.
Let me know if you find that,and I own my own company.
Let me know because I thinkpeople have to sort of reset
their expectations and thiswork from home, work hybrid,
work in a facility, it'sgoing to come to a head.
(06:35):
I'm going to predict certainlyfirst half of next year
we're going to see it come to a head.
We already started tosee it happen this year,
and everybody wants tosort of boohoo about it.
It's not a bad thing to workwith other people physically.
We have to stop saying that.
We have to stop saying that.
- [Josh] You heard it here people,
John said, it's goingto be an office thing.
You're going back,
(06:56):
you got to work with people again.
Forget working with your cat.
Go back to work. You heard it from John?
- [John] Yes. Yes.
Because, again, Josh andI have talked about this,
but like we have created in 2022
a little bit of a cast system,
and shame on HR for letting it happen
that the work remote or work hybrid roles
(07:19):
are better than the onesthat you have to come in,
and physically work.
Shame on us for letting thatbe something that people think.
I need people to comeinto work and fix trucks,
Josh, like you were talk,like we need those folks.
Don't make them feel like, oh, poor you,
you can't stay homeand work on a computer.
No, that's not true.
(07:39):
Not poor them. I'm so grateful for them.
I'm so grateful.
- [Josh] The one thingthat John and I find
is that even though we workremote, in our HR capacity,
we still crave that in-person interaction.
I mean, John and I havea collection of friends
that are on WhatsApp constantly.
(08:02):
Nicole Roberts you may be aware of,
she was also one of theinfluencers at (indistinct)
you've got Jessica Chungwho works for Leap Jam.
You've got Ben Watts over in Australia.
I mean, we have thiscollection, Steve Brown,
everybody knows Steve.
We're all on this conversation,
because we thrive on that interaction,
that feedback, that support.
When we can't get it in person,
(08:23):
we have to find a way to do that.
And that only does so much.
Jessica and I went to Ohiorecently to hang out with Nicole.
John's like, hey, comehang out in Florida.
Hell screw living in Minnesota.
Come move to Vero Beach, Florida.
These are the things thatwe're, we think about.
But it's the same thing for the office.
(08:45):
Susie Johnson doesn't havean overhead crane to work
on a semi truck in her garage.
She's got to come in.
I'm sorry, your work remotething isn't going to work
in my industry and in healthcare.
Come on.
Are you going to be donningand doffing in your basement
when you got to work on apatient for open heart surgery?
No.
Get over yourself.
(09:07):
What I say when I talk tocandidates on the phone,
whether they're from myindustry or I'm talking at USC
about bio med,
guys, you have to gowork in offices at times.
Not every role has a capacityto be remote or hybrid
or whatever.
It just doesn't work that way.
So it's upon us in HR to level set,
(09:30):
to set realistic expectations.
I talk to my candidates, I'm like, guys,
I am not your gatekeeper.
In the end gatekeeper isgoing to be the hiring manager
and yourself.
What I am, I'm your navigator
or as I tell John, I'myour dance partner buddy.
I'm going to help you through the process,
but in doing so, I'm goingto level set expectations.
(09:54):
So John's candidate thathad the layer upon layer
of expectations.
When their expectations are out of whack.
It's upon us to say, hey, you know what,
while I understand that,
here's the realistic expectationsfor what our organization
can do for you.
This is going to be a great opportunity.
And now you can decide whetheror not you want to gate keep
yourself out.
(10:15):
- [Shari] I'm curious asyour organization especially
'cause I agree,
there are a lot of roles thatcould not, cannot do hybrid
or remote.
And that's just the reality.
My husband's a firefighter by trade,
and so like pandemic was very interesting.
- [John] Can your husbandput out fires by Zoom?
I think we'd be pissed if that was it.
(10:35):
Fire department's on Zoom.
- [Shari] Yeah.
But we still are talkingabout employee experience,
and culture and all that kind of stuff.
And that's obviously changing and Gen Z's
going to affect thatand Jen Alpha coming up
is going to affect that.
So I'm curious, Josh, in your world,
how have you thoughtabout employee experience?
Because it's so differentthan like hybrid or remote.
(10:55):
- [Josh] So one of thethings that we've done is
we've simplified processes.
When I got here, the standardwas you had to fill out
the legal application beforewe would consider you.
I'm hiring diesel mechanics.
These are guys that turn wrenches all day,
and change the air filterand trucks and change wheel.
I mean, say, well,they're not on computers.
(11:17):
Now granted to do thework in our institution,
they have to use computersto enter repair orders,
and ask for supplies.
But these guys they don'twant to spend 20 minutes
filling out a legal application.
So what we did was we useda text messaging software
where they could text ustheir resume or application
(11:39):
or their informationand then we call them,
we go through the phone interview.
If everybody's on the upand up on being interested,
then we book the interview simultaneously
we have them then do the application.
So what we did is we laidthe groundwork early,
we built a connection,we built a relationship,
and then we had them dothat legal application
(12:00):
that we have to get,
and then move them through the process.
Yeah, it's extra steps,
but I don't have them spend needless time.
I'm not losing candidate engagement
because of having to have these pieces.
I mean we were seeingprobably a drop ratio
in excess of 75% peoplegoing to our job postings.
(12:21):
You can't sustain that.
So we had to find another way of doing it.
And so we used SMS to help with that.
We used a short online apply form,
which was literally name,phone number, email,
and then we gave them theoption of an attachment
where they could load a document.
I love the international candidates,
they're sending me profilepictures of them in their car
(12:42):
in Uganda.
I'm like, dude,
I would love to hire youjust by your profile picture,
your headshot you sent me, butit's just not going to work.
Some would actually send meresumes, which was great.
Some would send me letters.
I'm okay with that.
But it was what a simplerway to get my attention,
(13:03):
and start the process.
But then we try to do things.
We've done our mechanicsassessment electronically
or they could do it fromthe comfy confines of home.
It's 50 questions,
35 multiple choice like youwere back in elementary school.
They can do it from thecomfy confines of home.
And DocuSign tells mewhen they looked at it,
when they completed it.
(13:23):
So I know that they didn'tspend three hours looking up all
the answers.
We found ways around it toease the candidate experience,
get us the return that we need.
And were definitely seeing the dividends.
Our highest rate of hirewas 80 hires in 2018.
We're over a hundred,
we'll be at a hundredby the end of December.
We've eclipsed our highestwatermark of hiring
(13:46):
in the current crappy employment market
that we're in right now.
Taking full badge of honor on that one.
It's been fun.
It's been a good ride.
- [Shari] You touched base on something
that I think is really important too.
As you mentioned,
all those technology pieces,
what they didn't take awayfrom the human experience
you were creating, they augmented it.
(14:09):
And I think that is a trend,I'm using that word loosely,
but as we think about the futureof digitization and digital
and all that stuff,
I think there's this fear thatwe're going to take the human
out of it.
And if you do that, you're doing it wrong.
You are, you're doing it wrong.
It should aid you.
- [Josh] AI, we hear AI everywhere we go,
and AI can never replacea human connection.
(14:32):
It just can't.
You are doing yourorganization a disservice.
You are doing your candidatesa disservice by doing that.
I mean, perfect example,
I'm talking to a candidate over the phone,
and I know this male diesel mechanic
has a significant other,
'cause he alluded to itin the phone interview.
I'm like, is she therein the room with you?
He's like, yeah.
I said, let's get her on the phone.
(14:53):
Put me on speaker phone.
I want to answer any questions she has
because I know this isn'tjust a you decision.
That's a us decision for your family.
I'm like, what does she do?
And we started talkingand she's in healthcare.
She's a rad tech. She does x-rays.
I'm like, great, if we make this happen,
I'm going to introduce you toa bunch of other hospitals.
Sorry, AI can't do that.
(15:17):
Perfect example.
- [John] I think thatwhat we wind up doing
to that tech point.
Certainly tech matters.
It does make thingseasier for some people.
Accessibility can work easier.
Certainly even if youdon't live on a computer,
(15:37):
you have a smartphone at this point.
And so being able to sort of access things
from wherever you are,just from the computer
in your pocket, quite frankly, it's easy.
And we want to meet people where they are,
I think is a smart thing to do.
What I typically see is thatthe coldness of technology,
I feel like I didn't intendon sort of being an indictment
(16:00):
to HR, but it sure isgoing to seem like it.
The coldness of technologymost times is started by human
resources because we look forsoftware that makes our jobs
easier often to the detriment
of those that we're trying to serve.
And I mean ouch.
Here comes the ats.
(16:20):
I'm going to get taggedall over the place.
But the idea of it really needsto not be what makes my job
easier in HR, but whatwill serve the people
that I'm here to support better?
How will I make their life better?
How do I make their access less stressful?
Josh, I love that point about the family,
(16:42):
how does the technology help their family?
Because I have plenty of people,
even on my end when it comesto benefits as an example
where the employee is like,I think I have benefits.
And you're like, yes, you have benefits.
What are you talking about?
Like you're signed up and everything.
Well, my significant otherspouse, whatever it is,
partner needs to lookat everything and then,
(17:02):
look it's right there.
Hit that little app you haveon your phone right there
under, it says benefits.
I don't want to makethis overly complicated.
Where it says benefits,
touch that word and everything opens up.
You could sit at home and readthrough all the summary plan
descriptions all night longif it helps you to sleep,
if you want to have aconversation, whatever it is.
But I'm here to serveyou in thinking that way.
(17:25):
I'm not here to say, oh gosh,
my census that I have to do for benefits.
It'll be so much easier aslong as I have this software.
Forget that it screws everybody else up.
My life will be easier.It's the wrong perspective.
- [Shari] I want to throw this out here.
So AI, HR, so the academy to innovate HR,
they have their list out there.
And I hadn't seen this before,
so I want you to reactto it 'cause I thought
(17:47):
it was pretty interesting.
One of the trends they're saying for 2023,
HR enters the metaverse.
What do you guys think about that?
- [John] Lord Jesus, help us.
That's my first response.
We can't handle this universe.
Now we're going to be setfree in the metaverse. Golly.
- [Josh] Are we going to be start doing,
career fairs with Oculus headsets on?
(18:09):
No.
- [John] Listen, I'm going to tell you,
this is not planned everybody.
I just saw some peoplegraduate and get some sort
of certificate in learningHR in the Metaverse.
'Cause I saw it posted on LinkedIn.
I don't know who it was. I don't remember.
Please don't give me a hard time.
I just thought
(18:32):
if that's true.
If we're really going into the metaverse,
the core components of whatwe're supposed to do at human
resources probably still needto activate in the metaverse
just as much as they doin this real universe.
So it doesn't make meany more, first of all,
HR, it doesn't make us coolbecause we're in the metaverse.
You're still going to dancelike Elaine from Seinfeld.
(18:54):
Just let it go.
It's just what it is.
So just saying, hey,
I'm in the metaverse nowmakes the metaverse less cool.
It's when your mom is onTikTok, TikTok is less cool.
Like that's just the reality.
- [Josh] John Baldino is on TikTok.
- [John] No I am not because my kid
said do not go on TikTok.
(19:15):
- [Josh] Don't enter my space dad.
- [John] That's right.
That is right.
So now I'm in the metaverselike creeping over the virtual
wall looking into Snoop Dog's backyard.
Trying to figure out whatparty he's got going.
That doesn't make me cool.
If the intention behindthose kinds of things
is really to be thoughtfularound the future of work,
(19:36):
then I'm all for it.
How are we exploring thefuture of work in the metaverse
practically and sustainably?
Not just from a trendstandpoint, sustainably.
What will this look likefor us to engage people
at that level?
It's a real world as faras commerce is concerned.
There is an entire veinof it that's happening
(19:56):
in the metaverse.
It isn't going to be for usto just come in and ready
to write our metaverse handbook.
It's got to be much more to it than that.
- [Shari] I do think trainingcould look really cool
in the metaverse.
I was thinking Josh, about your world,
and can you imagine ifa mechanic can learn
with an Oculus headset and gloves.
(20:17):
I don't know what theactual term is for them.
I'm sure they have some fancy name,
but gloves where they couldactually work in tools,
and have that feedback. I mean that.
- [Josh] They already have it Shari.
- [Shari] No way. Really.
- [Josh] Yeah, it already exists.
There's applications out thereright now that will start
from outside the cab of a truck,
and go in all the way into tell you where the guts
(20:40):
are for a particularelement that's gone out.
So if you run a diagnostics check,
and you see that there's anerror in this part of the engine
or exhaust system,
you can actually hone inon where that's going to be
in that specific model of the truck.
- [Shari] Wow. Clearly I had no idea.
- [Josh] You can get down toa screw that goes into a part.
(21:02):
So you know what part you need.
- [Shari] They need to givethis to just like regular people
so we can fix our cars.
I know maybe that'slike taboo to say, but.
- [Josh] I do it all the time.
When my washing machine went out,
it wouldn't spin anymore.
I actually ordered, maybeit was the dryer anyway,
one of those two appliances.
Basically instead ofpaying a repair man $800
(21:24):
to come to my house,
I used a 2 cent zip strip,
zip tie and zip tied alittle piece to my dryer.
And it worked like a charm.
Thank you YouTube.
- [John] So you filledit with water 'cause
you got confused betweenthe washing machine and the.
- [Josh] I don't remember which,
this was like three years ago.
I don't remember whichmachine it was, but yeah,
I mean it worked fantastically.
(21:45):
I didn't have to go buy a new machine.
Like two cent zip strip,
saved me from a $800 machine.
- [John] And that's where I think,
YouTube is a great example.
I think that when you'relooking at platforms,
you're looking to see what willgive us the greatest benefit
and the greatest reachfor those that we support.
(22:06):
So if you do have a diversifiedstaff geographically,
then having something that isgoing to be helpful to meet
people where they are justbecause of time zones,
and schedules,
they can log into somethingand have that virtual
experience, I think is helpful.
(22:27):
What I would continue to encourage is,
it's a piece of it.
So when someone puts on anOculus for the first time,
and has to diagnose a truckor has to show what they would
do as a dental hygienist
or shows what they woulddo for this or that.
If it's somebody's firsttime putting something
like that on,
(22:48):
if you're a cutting edgecompany and doing that,
if that's really your only,
litmus test to say whethersomeone's going to move forward
or not, I got to tell you,
there's probably a bunch ofpeople who will not do well
the first time,
have some grace in these thingsbecause it isn't natural.
I mean, we've watched,
I know I have countless hourson reels of all the people
(23:08):
who wear Oculus and thenjust pummel every human being
that's near them or break televisions or,
I mean it's hilarious.
But understand the reason that's funny
is because it's someone'sfirst interaction with it,
and they don't know what to do with it.
So I think with any tech platform,
we also have to be thoughtfulthat it isn't unintentionally
causing bias to a particularpopulation of people
(23:29):
that may not.
My son is a streamer,
he has two hands but works 47 controllers.
I don't know how he does it,
but he does between thekeyboard and camera,
and all these other, I soundso old even saying it this
way, but I can't do that.
I know I can't do it.
I'm not coordinated enough.
(23:51):
If I had to like coverfor him for his stream,
it would be his thousandsof followers would go away
because I would screw it up.
- [Shari] Oh, I think they would tune in.
Don't undersell that.
- [John] For that,
but make sure that youknow your population,
give enough room forpeople to be successful
in maybe a couple of different.
- [Shari] My oldest son has a headset,
(24:11):
and when I was visiting him,
he's like, yeah, let's try this.
I want you to try this game.
I'm using the term very loosely
'cause it was like a walk theplank on a skyscraper game.
I don't know why youwould want to do this,
but the intent is you walk outon this plank and walk back
and I got like out the windowand I was like, yep, nope,
nope, no thank you.
Nope. Not doing it.
Not, but my husband, he jumpedoff the plank and he like,
(24:34):
did the whole like, fall tothe ground, the whole thing.
I was like, you're wired different,
I mean, that's being a fireman.
- [John] Literally I'd havea medical event if I was,
I would like, I'm in it.
So I'm going to have that experience.
So it's not positive for everybody.
- [Shari] Yeah, I agree.
As you guys think forward,
so like we'd started the conversation.
(24:56):
Like nobody's reallyputting a stake in the sand.
I mean, Gardner is,
but I haven't really seenanybody else come out,
and say like, these are thefive things you have to do.
Which I'm not going toask you for five things,
but as you think forward in your spaces,
what's the one thing thatyou're most curious to see
how we do in the next year?
- [John] I mean, I'll go.
I was deferring to youfirst, Mr. Truck man,
(25:17):
I thought you were going tosay something about something
with diesel.
I'm most curious to see what re-skilling
looks like next year.
Because if I'm going tomake a another besides
the physicality of work,
I think the other thing thatis going to be necessary
(25:38):
is re-skilling.
I think that we are goingto have to be, as employers,
organizations are goingto have to actually drive
the re-skilling of talent,
and not sit back and passively say,
well, if they want this job,
let's see if they put the work in.
I think that from a resource standpoint,
(25:59):
we won't have enoughpeople who have access
to what they need in orderto re-skill in some ways.
And so the onus willbe on an organization.
I am curious to see whichorganizations will rise
to the occasion.
- [Shari] How about you, Josh?
- [Josh] I'm interested tosee the level of humility
that returns to industry,
(26:20):
both in the corporate and inthe employee or candidate.
Because right now,
the last year and a halfhas been all about ego.
You see it in HR techand the amount of money
that they're throwing around.
You see it in candidatesand what they're demanding.
(26:40):
I'm interested to seethe return to humility,
what companies that stand up and say,
you know what, we aren'tthe end all be all.
So we're going to combinewith somebody else
to fill the gaps that we don't have.
HR I'm hearing this,
whether I'm here at SheridanInsights right now in Las Vegas
(27:02):
or at other conferences,they're tired of the tech stack.
They want things that work seamlessly,
where the gaps are.
So does HR tech finally say, okay,
people are going to start,
shedding software because theydon't have the money anymore.
We need to be humble and say,hey, we don't have it all,
(27:23):
so we're going to see more combination.
Maybe that's it, or maybe they offer more,
and the candidates, you know what,
I don't deserve all of themoney that I was asking for
a year ago, eight months ago.
All of the work from home,
the extra vacation days,the sabbatical leave,
all of these things thatthey've been asking for
(27:45):
without actually doing the work.
And then you add into,
what John was saying about re-skilling,
do we see this flood ofof workforce coming in
that has been sitting dormantfor the last two years?
And who knows?
I'm excited to see whereeveryone just says,
okay, we're all cool again.
(28:07):
- [Shari] I like that.
I think that could be areally cool place to be
where organizations thinkmore collaboratively
with each other.
We've talked about this before,
like there's more thanenough money to go around.
There's more than enoughspace for every influencer
to influence.
(28:27):
Like there's space for all of us.
- [John] No.
- [Josh] As long as youhave John and I on the list,
then we're good.
- [Shari] That's right.
But there's truth to that.
There's space for everybody.
And so how do we elevate each other?
How do I look at the work thatyou guys are doing and go,
hey, how do I step in andhave a partnership with you,
(28:49):
and elevate the work you'redoing and vice versa,
and not feel like we're competing.
Because we're in the same space.
I think there's so much truth to that.
So I really love that.
- [Josh] I love the factthat you brought that up.
I had this very sameconversation last night
with Lisa Tolson who sells for Paylocity.
I was telling her that you andI were going to be on this.
And she said, how did this come about?
(29:10):
And I told her the story abouthow we connected John and I
and you, and she'slike, oh, this is great.
And I said, Lisa, one ofthe things that you can do
is after this podcastcomes out is share it
with your prospects in yourmarket here in Minnesota,
and elsewhere, becauseit's going to have two
really fabulous HR guystalking about what's going on,
and the connection toPaylocity and how can we help
(29:33):
each other.
And so we're actuallygoing to have a call,
Lisa and I are next weekabout that very same topic
about how can we help each other out?
How can I help her elevate,
and connect with HR whetheror not they buy Paylocity
down the road.
So.
Good drop there, Shari.
I appreciate that.
- [Shari] It was well planned, I guess.
(29:54):
- [John] I mean, and that's where I think
that come in full circle.
The humanity piece matters so much.
I think that we really don't,
if you think about what we do,
first of all, don't takeyourself too seriously.
And second of all, we'rein the people business.
All of us, whether you're selling tech,
whether you're in HR,whether you're in finance,
(30:15):
I mean, horrors of ours, they'rein the people business too.
Because if we don't have people,as clients, as customers,
whatever space you're in, B2B or B2C,
it falls apart.
Business needs people.
And so if we just rememberthat we are working
(30:35):
with other people,
it helps you to just have abetter attitude about things.
This whole influencer thingor whatever these titles
are that we use, I appreciate it.
I know the context, but overall,
when I'm talking to someonewho has to take leave
because there's a medicalsituation happening at home,
(30:56):
they don't care that I'm an influencer
in somebody else's eyes.
They're hoping that I can be an influencer
in their situation.
And that's what we have to remember.
- [Shari] What a great note toend on for our conversation.
This has been a lot of fun.
I think that's the word I'mgoing to use because I think
that's the best way tospend time with people
who are in our space together.
(31:17):
So thanks for taking a fewminutes of your guys' day to chat
with me.
- [Josh] Thanks for asking.- [John] Totally.
- [Shari] This podcast isbrought to you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task of today
so you can focus more onthe promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit atopic or appear as a guest
on a future episode,
(31:38):
email us at pctytalks@paylocity.com.
- [Shari] Hey, and welcome to PCTY Talks.
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,
we'll stay close to the newsand info you need to succeed
as an HR pro.
And together we'll exploretopics around HR thought
leadership, compliance,
and real life HR situationswe face every day.
(00:28):
Joining me on the podcasttoday is John Baldino,
president at Humareso, and Josh Rock,
talent Acquisition Manager atNuss Truck Group Incorporated.
So John and Josh,
thanks so much for taking afew minutes of your crazy days
to spend some time with meon the podcast talking about
trends for 2023 in HR.
(00:49):
- [Josh] Awesome. Thanks for having me.
- [Shari] Yeah.
So, we are doing a webinar onthis in a couple days here.
And it's funny because usuallyby this time of the year,
I feel like I've seenmultiple blog articles,
and research coming out like,hey, what's coming for 2023?
And it's really light this year.
A lot of people haven't kindof put a stake in the ground
as to like what we should expect for 2023.
(01:11):
Why do you guys think that is?
- [Josh] I'm seeing some carryover
stuff that they didn't get done for 22
because of the chaos ofwhether it was people
working from home or reductions in force
that they're just like, hey,
we're just going to quietlytiptoe all of our projects
into 23.
I mean, I could name some names,
(01:31):
but maybe we can get to that in a bit.
- [John] Yeah, I mean, I'll name too.
Honestly, I know I was messing around,
but I do think that people are afraid
for two reasons.
One, it's sort of quietlyunstable in the economy
at the moment.
And what I mean by quietly isI think there's sort of like
(01:54):
competing agendas.
And so the messaging issort of a little convoluted,
but I think that that's partof the reason why we're seeing
the layoffs at this time
that we're seeing from some companies.
And I'm going to say large and small,
and I know the large ones make the news,
but small companies arelaying people off as well.
And so I think people are a little afraid
(02:14):
to make predictions becausethe ground is unsettled.
And we also are in a world where
if you say it and it doesn't come true,
like then you're afraidyour street cred goes away.
And we have to be a littlenicer to one another.
- [Shari] Oh, I completely agree.
It's interesting, theunsteady ground thing.
I was looking at justthe news this morning,
(02:38):
and Twitter laid off a bunch of people,
obviously with Elon Musk taking over,
Facebook slash Metaversejust let go of what,
13,000 I think was thenumber I saw this morning.
- [John] 11 or 13. A lot.
- [Shari] A lot of people,
and what's interesting is theywere hiring as of 12 months
ago, they were ramping up and hiring.
So I completely agreethat there's this slowing
(03:02):
of things that's happening,and so we have to adjust to it.
- [John] Well, and Ithink part of the trend is
this is a course correction.
So, I mean, Josh and I,
I know we talked about this a while ago,
but we spent a lot of moneyon talent earlier this year
to get people 'cause wewere so desperate for folks
that the compensation
(03:24):
bands that were beingused grew a lot and yeah.
And so we knew thatcompanies were going to,
especially the larger ones,
going to have to dealwith budgets and say,
we can't afford to keep this up,
so we're going to have to cut people,
and then we can level setwhere the rate of pay is
back to something we can afford long term.
(03:45):
- [Josh] Yeah. The greed in excesses
is like the rubber bandthat's snapping back,
and hitting you square in their back end.
Companies that were smartaren't going to see that nearly
as much, much like my organization,
we've grown rightfully, we'vedone pay within the realm
(04:05):
that we should be.
So we shouldn't see that.
Now, obviously transportationis near recession proof.
I mean, you look throughthe pandemic and people
still needed to get tele paper,
so we were still busy fixingtrucks so they could get there.
But yeah, I mean, you'regoing to see some of that snap
back there.
People were desperate, theywere overpaying, as John said,
people thought they could get it.
(04:26):
Well, now what happenson their side as talent
when they're getting laid off,
and they're not makingthe pay that they thought
they were going to makebecause they thought they could
get what they could get it.It's going to be interesting.
- [Shari] I think you're right though
about organizations who were alittle more forward thinking.
I'm fortunate that Iworked for an organization
that at the verybeginning of the pandemic,
(04:48):
their motto was, we're notgoing to lay anybody off.
We're going to figure out howto get through the pandemic
and not lay anybody off.
And they also took a conservativeapproach to the other side
is to bring in talent.
We're not going to over inflatewhat we're paying people
because we know it's, like you said,
we know it's going to snap back.
And so we're going to behurting in a different way
(05:08):
if we do that.
- [John] And I think too,
and this will be an unpopular opinion,
and so I can't help it,
and I'm too old to careabout street credit anymore.
I mean, I think that part ofit, oh, Josh, you're so kind.
Part of it is this demandcentric consideration
(05:32):
that candidates have right now.
You're not the prettiestdude for the dance anymore.
Like, you're going to haveto just deal with the fact
that yes, it felt reallygood eight months ago
that everybody wantedyou, you were up for,
homecoming king or queen orwhatever thing has been like
(05:53):
tapped into for you to have.
And now you're not as popular.
You can't call the shots as much.
I mean, I talked to somebodylast week who was like,
John, I'm looking for,
this kind of role at 175,000 plus equity
in the organization.
I never want to come into the office.
(06:13):
I'm looking for benefits to becovered for my entire family.
And I'm like, me too, Whitney.
Let me know if you find that,and I own my own company.
Let me know because I thinkpeople have to sort of reset
their expectations and thiswork from home, work hybrid,
work in a facility, it'sgoing to come to a head.
(06:35):
I'm going to predict certainlyfirst half of next year
we're going to see it come to a head.
We already started tosee it happen this year,
and everybody wants tosort of boohoo about it.
It's not a bad thing to workwith other people physically.
We have to stop saying that.
We have to stop saying that.
- [Josh] You heard it here people,
John said, it's goingto be an office thing.
You're going back,
(06:56):
you got to work with people again.
Forget working with your cat.
Go back to work. You heard it from John?
- [John] Yes. Yes.
Because, again, Josh andI have talked about this,
but like we have created in 2022
a little bit of a cast system,
and shame on HR for letting it happen
that the work remote or work hybrid roles
(07:19):
are better than the onesthat you have to come in,
and physically work.
Shame on us for letting thatbe something that people think.
I need people to comeinto work and fix trucks,
Josh, like you were talk,like we need those folks.
Don't make them feel like, oh, poor you,
you can't stay homeand work on a computer.
No, that's not true.
(07:39):
Not poor them. I'm so grateful for them.
I'm so grateful.
- [Josh] The one thingthat John and I find
is that even though we workremote, in our HR capacity,
we still crave that in-person interaction.
I mean, John and I havea collection of friends
that are on WhatsApp constantly.
(08:02):
Nicole Roberts you may be aware of,
she was also one of theinfluencers at (indistinct)
you've got Jessica Chungwho works for Leap Jam.
You've got Ben Watts over in Australia.
I mean, we have thiscollection, Steve Brown,
everybody knows Steve.
We're all on this conversation,
because we thrive on that interaction,
that feedback, that support.
When we can't get it in person,
(08:23):
we have to find a way to do that.
And that only does so much.
Jessica and I went to Ohiorecently to hang out with Nicole.
John's like, hey, comehang out in Florida.
Hell screw living in Minnesota.
Come move to Vero Beach, Florida.
These are the things thatwe're, we think about.
But it's the same thing for the office.
(08:45):
Susie Johnson doesn't havean overhead crane to work
on a semi truck in her garage.
She's got to come in.
I'm sorry, your work remotething isn't going to work
in my industry and in healthcare.
Come on.
Are you going to be donningand doffing in your basement
when you got to work on apatient for open heart surgery?
No.
Get over yourself.
(09:07):
What I say when I talk tocandidates on the phone,
whether they're from myindustry or I'm talking at USC
about bio med,
guys, you have to gowork in offices at times.
Not every role has a capacityto be remote or hybrid
or whatever.
It just doesn't work that way.
So it's upon us in HR to level set,
(09:30):
to set realistic expectations.
I talk to my candidates, I'm like, guys,
I am not your gatekeeper.
In the end gatekeeper isgoing to be the hiring manager
and yourself.
What I am, I'm your navigator
or as I tell John, I'myour dance partner buddy.
I'm going to help you through the process,
but in doing so, I'm goingto level set expectations.
(09:54):
So John's candidate thathad the layer upon layer
of expectations.
When their expectations are out of whack.
It's upon us to say, hey, you know what,
while I understand that,
here's the realistic expectationsfor what our organization
can do for you.
This is going to be a great opportunity.
And now you can decide whetheror not you want to gate keep
yourself out.
(10:15):
- [Shari] I'm curious asyour organization especially
'cause I agree,
there are a lot of roles thatcould not, cannot do hybrid
or remote.
And that's just the reality.
My husband's a firefighter by trade,
and so like pandemic was very interesting.
- [John] Can your husbandput out fires by Zoom?
I think we'd be pissed if that was it.
(10:35):
Fire department's on Zoom.
- [Shari] Yeah.
But we still are talkingabout employee experience,
and culture and all that kind of stuff.
And that's obviously changing and Gen Z's
going to affect thatand Jen Alpha coming up
is going to affect that.
So I'm curious, Josh, in your world,
how have you thoughtabout employee experience?
Because it's so differentthan like hybrid or remote.
(10:55):
- [Josh] So one of thethings that we've done is
we've simplified processes.
When I got here, the standardwas you had to fill out
the legal application beforewe would consider you.
I'm hiring diesel mechanics.
These are guys that turn wrenches all day,
and change the air filterand trucks and change wheel.
I mean, say, well,they're not on computers.
(11:17):
Now granted to do thework in our institution,
they have to use computersto enter repair orders,
and ask for supplies.
But these guys they don'twant to spend 20 minutes
filling out a legal application.
So what we did was we useda text messaging software
where they could text ustheir resume or application
(11:39):
or their informationand then we call them,
we go through the phone interview.
If everybody's on the upand up on being interested,
then we book the interview simultaneously
we have them then do the application.
So what we did is we laidthe groundwork early,
we built a connection,we built a relationship,
and then we had them dothat legal application
(12:00):
that we have to get,
and then move them through the process.
Yeah, it's extra steps,
but I don't have them spend needless time.
I'm not losing candidate engagement
because of having to have these pieces.
I mean we were seeingprobably a drop ratio
in excess of 75% peoplegoing to our job postings.
(12:21):
You can't sustain that.
So we had to find another way of doing it.
And so we used SMS to help with that.
We used a short online apply form,
which was literally name,phone number, email,
and then we gave them theoption of an attachment
where they could load a document.
I love the international candidates,
they're sending me profilepictures of them in their car
(12:42):
in Uganda.
I'm like, dude,
I would love to hire youjust by your profile picture,
your headshot you sent me, butit's just not going to work.
Some would actually send meresumes, which was great.
Some would send me letters.
I'm okay with that.
But it was what a simplerway to get my attention,
(13:03):
and start the process.
But then we try to do things.
We've done our mechanicsassessment electronically
or they could do it fromthe comfy confines of home.
It's 50 questions,
35 multiple choice like youwere back in elementary school.
They can do it from thecomfy confines of home.
And DocuSign tells mewhen they looked at it,
when they completed it.
(13:23):
So I know that they didn'tspend three hours looking up all
the answers.
We found ways around it toease the candidate experience,
get us the return that we need.
And were definitely seeing the dividends.
Our highest rate of hirewas 80 hires in 2018.
We're over a hundred,
we'll be at a hundredby the end of December.
We've eclipsed our highestwatermark of hiring
(13:46):
in the current crappy employment market
that we're in right now.
Taking full badge of honor on that one.
It's been fun.
It's been a good ride.
- [Shari] You touched base on something
that I think is really important too.
As you mentioned,
all those technology pieces,
what they didn't take awayfrom the human experience
you were creating, they augmented it.
(14:09):
And I think that is a trend,I'm using that word loosely,
but as we think about the futureof digitization and digital
and all that stuff,
I think there's this fear thatwe're going to take the human
out of it.
And if you do that, you're doing it wrong.
You are, you're doing it wrong.
It should aid you.
- [Josh] AI, we hear AI everywhere we go,
and AI can never replacea human connection.
(14:32):
It just can't.
You are doing yourorganization a disservice.
You are doing your candidatesa disservice by doing that.
I mean, perfect example,
I'm talking to a candidate over the phone,
and I know this male diesel mechanic
has a significant other,
'cause he alluded to itin the phone interview.
I'm like, is she therein the room with you?
He's like, yeah.
I said, let's get her on the phone.
(14:53):
Put me on speaker phone.
I want to answer any questions she has
because I know this isn'tjust a you decision.
That's a us decision for your family.
I'm like, what does she do?
And we started talkingand she's in healthcare.
She's a rad tech. She does x-rays.
I'm like, great, if we make this happen,
I'm going to introduce you toa bunch of other hospitals.
Sorry, AI can't do that.
(15:17):
Perfect example.
- [John] I think thatwhat we wind up doing
to that tech point.
Certainly tech matters.
It does make thingseasier for some people.
Accessibility can work easier.
Certainly even if youdon't live on a computer,
(15:37):
you have a smartphone at this point.
And so being able to sort of access things
from wherever you are,just from the computer
in your pocket, quite frankly, it's easy.
And we want to meet people where they are,
I think is a smart thing to do.
What I typically see is thatthe coldness of technology,
I feel like I didn't intendon sort of being an indictment
(16:00):
to HR, but it sure isgoing to seem like it.
The coldness of technologymost times is started by human
resources because we look forsoftware that makes our jobs
easier often to the detriment
of those that we're trying to serve.
And I mean ouch.
Here comes the ats.
(16:20):
I'm going to get taggedall over the place.
But the idea of it really needsto not be what makes my job
easier in HR, but whatwill serve the people
that I'm here to support better?
How will I make their life better?
How do I make their access less stressful?
Josh, I love that point about the family,
(16:42):
how does the technology help their family?
Because I have plenty of people,
even on my end when it comesto benefits as an example
where the employee is like,I think I have benefits.
And you're like, yes, you have benefits.
What are you talking about?
Like you're signed up and everything.
Well, my significant otherspouse, whatever it is,
partner needs to lookat everything and then,
(17:02):
look it's right there.
Hit that little app you haveon your phone right there
under, it says benefits.
I don't want to makethis overly complicated.
Where it says benefits,
touch that word and everything opens up.
You could sit at home and readthrough all the summary plan
descriptions all night longif it helps you to sleep,
if you want to have aconversation, whatever it is.
But I'm here to serveyou in thinking that way.
(17:25):
I'm not here to say, oh gosh,
my census that I have to do for benefits.
It'll be so much easier aslong as I have this software.
Forget that it screws everybody else up.
My life will be easier.It's the wrong perspective.
- [Shari] I want to throw this out here.
So AI, HR, so the academy to innovate HR,
they have their list out there.
And I hadn't seen this before,
so I want you to reactto it 'cause I thought
(17:47):
it was pretty interesting.
One of the trends they're saying for 2023,
HR enters the metaverse.
What do you guys think about that?
- [John] Lord Jesus, help us.
That's my first response.
We can't handle this universe.
Now we're going to be setfree in the metaverse. Golly.
- [Josh] Are we going to be start doing,
career fairs with Oculus headsets on?
(18:09):
No.
- [John] Listen, I'm going to tell you,
this is not planned everybody.
I just saw some peoplegraduate and get some sort
of certificate in learningHR in the Metaverse.
'Cause I saw it posted on LinkedIn.
I don't know who it was. I don't remember.
Please don't give me a hard time.
I just thought
(18:32):
if that's true.
If we're really going into the metaverse,
the core components of whatwe're supposed to do at human
resources probably still needto activate in the metaverse
just as much as they doin this real universe.
So it doesn't make meany more, first of all,
HR, it doesn't make us coolbecause we're in the metaverse.
You're still going to dancelike Elaine from Seinfeld.
(18:54):
Just let it go.
It's just what it is.
So just saying, hey,
I'm in the metaverse nowmakes the metaverse less cool.
It's when your mom is onTikTok, TikTok is less cool.
Like that's just the reality.
- [Josh] John Baldino is on TikTok.
- [John] No I am not because my kid
said do not go on TikTok.
(19:15):
- [Josh] Don't enter my space dad.
- [John] That's right.
That is right.
So now I'm in the metaverselike creeping over the virtual
wall looking into Snoop Dog's backyard.
Trying to figure out whatparty he's got going.
That doesn't make me cool.
If the intention behindthose kinds of things
is really to be thoughtfularound the future of work,
(19:36):
then I'm all for it.
How are we exploring thefuture of work in the metaverse
practically and sustainably?
Not just from a trendstandpoint, sustainably.
What will this look likefor us to engage people
at that level?
It's a real world as faras commerce is concerned.
There is an entire veinof it that's happening
(19:56):
in the metaverse.
It isn't going to be for usto just come in and ready
to write our metaverse handbook.
It's got to be much more to it than that.
- [Shari] I do think trainingcould look really cool
in the metaverse.
I was thinking Josh, about your world,
and can you imagine ifa mechanic can learn
with an Oculus headset and gloves.
(20:17):
I don't know what theactual term is for them.
I'm sure they have some fancy name,
but gloves where they couldactually work in tools,
and have that feedback. I mean that.
- [Josh] They already have it Shari.
- [Shari] No way. Really.
- [Josh] Yeah, it already exists.
There's applications out thereright now that will start
from outside the cab of a truck,
and go in all the way into tell you where the guts
(20:40):
are for a particularelement that's gone out.
So if you run a diagnostics check,
and you see that there's anerror in this part of the engine
or exhaust system,
you can actually hone inon where that's going to be
in that specific model of the truck.
- [Shari] Wow. Clearly I had no idea.
- [Josh] You can get down toa screw that goes into a part.
(21:02):
So you know what part you need.
- [Shari] They need to givethis to just like regular people
so we can fix our cars.
I know maybe that'slike taboo to say, but.
- [Josh] I do it all the time.
When my washing machine went out,
it wouldn't spin anymore.
I actually ordered, maybeit was the dryer anyway,
one of those two appliances.
Basically instead ofpaying a repair man $800
(21:24):
to come to my house,
I used a 2 cent zip strip,
zip tie and zip tied alittle piece to my dryer.
And it worked like a charm.
Thank you YouTube.
- [John] So you filledit with water 'cause
you got confused betweenthe washing machine and the.
- [Josh] I don't remember which,
this was like three years ago.
I don't remember whichmachine it was, but yeah,
I mean it worked fantastically.
(21:45):
I didn't have to go buy a new machine.
Like two cent zip strip,
saved me from a $800 machine.
- [John] And that's where I think,
YouTube is a great example.
I think that when you'relooking at platforms,
you're looking to see what willgive us the greatest benefit
and the greatest reachfor those that we support.
(22:06):
So if you do have a diversifiedstaff geographically,
then having something that isgoing to be helpful to meet
people where they are justbecause of time zones,
and schedules,
they can log into somethingand have that virtual
experience, I think is helpful.
(22:27):
What I would continue to encourage is,
it's a piece of it.
So when someone puts on anOculus for the first time,
and has to diagnose a truckor has to show what they would
do as a dental hygienist
or shows what they woulddo for this or that.
If it's somebody's firsttime putting something
like that on,
(22:48):
if you're a cutting edgecompany and doing that,
if that's really your only,
litmus test to say whethersomeone's going to move forward
or not, I got to tell you,
there's probably a bunch ofpeople who will not do well
the first time,
have some grace in these thingsbecause it isn't natural.
I mean, we've watched,
I know I have countless hourson reels of all the people
(23:08):
who wear Oculus and thenjust pummel every human being
that's near them or break televisions or,
I mean it's hilarious.
But understand the reason that's funny
is because it's someone'sfirst interaction with it,
and they don't know what to do with it.
So I think with any tech platform,
we also have to be thoughtfulthat it isn't unintentionally
causing bias to a particularpopulation of people
(23:29):
that may not.
My son is a streamer,
he has two hands but works 47 controllers.
I don't know how he does it,
but he does between thekeyboard and camera,
and all these other, I soundso old even saying it this
way, but I can't do that.
I know I can't do it.
I'm not coordinated enough.
(23:51):
If I had to like coverfor him for his stream,
it would be his thousandsof followers would go away
because I would screw it up.
- [Shari] Oh, I think they would tune in.
Don't undersell that.
- [John] For that,
but make sure that youknow your population,
give enough room forpeople to be successful
in maybe a couple of different.
- [Shari] My oldest son has a headset,
(24:11):
and when I was visiting him,
he's like, yeah, let's try this.
I want you to try this game.
I'm using the term very loosely
'cause it was like a walk theplank on a skyscraper game.
I don't know why youwould want to do this,
but the intent is you walk outon this plank and walk back
and I got like out the windowand I was like, yep, nope,
nope, no thank you.
Nope. Not doing it.
Not, but my husband, he jumpedoff the plank and he like,
(24:34):
did the whole like, fall tothe ground, the whole thing.
I was like, you're wired different,
I mean, that's being a fireman.
- [John] Literally I'd havea medical event if I was,
I would like, I'm in it.
So I'm going to have that experience.
So it's not positive for everybody.
- [Shari] Yeah, I agree.
As you guys think forward,
so like we'd started the conversation.
(24:56):
Like nobody's reallyputting a stake in the sand.
I mean, Gardner is,
but I haven't really seenanybody else come out,
and say like, these are thefive things you have to do.
Which I'm not going toask you for five things,
but as you think forward in your spaces,
what's the one thing thatyou're most curious to see
how we do in the next year?
- [John] I mean, I'll go.
I was deferring to youfirst, Mr. Truck man,
(25:17):
I thought you were going tosay something about something
with diesel.
I'm most curious to see what re-skilling
looks like next year.
Because if I'm going tomake a another besides
the physicality of work,
I think the other thing thatis going to be necessary
(25:38):
is re-skilling.
I think that we are goingto have to be, as employers,
organizations are goingto have to actually drive
the re-skilling of talent,
and not sit back and passively say,
well, if they want this job,
let's see if they put the work in.
I think that from a resource standpoint,
(25:59):
we won't have enoughpeople who have access
to what they need in orderto re-skill in some ways.
And so the onus willbe on an organization.
I am curious to see whichorganizations will rise
to the occasion.
- [Shari] How about you, Josh?
- [Josh] I'm interested tosee the level of humility
that returns to industry,
(26:20):
both in the corporate and inthe employee or candidate.
Because right now,
the last year and a halfhas been all about ego.
You see it in HR techand the amount of money
that they're throwing around.
You see it in candidatesand what they're demanding.
(26:40):
I'm interested to seethe return to humility,
what companies that stand up and say,
you know what, we aren'tthe end all be all.
So we're going to combinewith somebody else
to fill the gaps that we don't have.
HR I'm hearing this,
whether I'm here at SheridanInsights right now in Las Vegas
(27:02):
or at other conferences,they're tired of the tech stack.
They want things that work seamlessly,
where the gaps are.
So does HR tech finally say, okay,
people are going to start,
shedding software because theydon't have the money anymore.
We need to be humble and say,hey, we don't have it all,
(27:23):
so we're going to see more combination.
Maybe that's it, or maybe they offer more,
and the candidates, you know what,
I don't deserve all of themoney that I was asking for
a year ago, eight months ago.
All of the work from home,
the extra vacation days,the sabbatical leave,
all of these things thatthey've been asking for
(27:45):
without actually doing the work.
And then you add into,
what John was saying about re-skilling,
do we see this flood ofof workforce coming in
that has been sitting dormantfor the last two years?
And who knows?
I'm excited to see whereeveryone just says,
okay, we're all cool again.
(28:07):
- [Shari] I like that.
I think that could be areally cool place to be
where organizations thinkmore collaboratively
with each other.
We've talked about this before,
like there's more thanenough money to go around.
There's more than enoughspace for every influencer
to influence.
(28:27):
Like there's space for all of us.
- [John] No.
- [Josh] As long as youhave John and I on the list,
then we're good.
- [Shari] That's right.
But there's truth to that.
There's space for everybody.
And so how do we elevate each other?
How do I look at the work thatyou guys are doing and go,
hey, how do I step in andhave a partnership with you,
(28:49):
and elevate the work you'redoing and vice versa,
and not feel like we're competing.
Because we're in the same space.
I think there's so much truth to that.
So I really love that.
- [Josh] I love the factthat you brought that up.
I had this very sameconversation last night
with Lisa Tolson who sells for Paylocity.
I was telling her that you andI were going to be on this.
And she said, how did this come about?
(29:10):
And I told her the story abouthow we connected John and I
and you, and she'slike, oh, this is great.
And I said, Lisa, one ofthe things that you can do
is after this podcastcomes out is share it
with your prospects in yourmarket here in Minnesota,
and elsewhere, becauseit's going to have two
really fabulous HR guystalking about what's going on,
and the connection toPaylocity and how can we help
(29:33):
each other.
And so we're actuallygoing to have a call,
Lisa and I are next weekabout that very same topic
about how can we help each other out?
How can I help her elevate,
and connect with HR whetheror not they buy Paylocity
down the road.
So.
Good drop there, Shari.
I appreciate that.
- [Shari] It was well planned, I guess.
(29:54):
- [John] I mean, and that's where I think
that come in full circle.
The humanity piece matters so much.
I think that we really don't,
if you think about what we do,
first of all, don't takeyourself too seriously.
And second of all, we'rein the people business.
All of us, whether you're selling tech,
whether you're in HR,whether you're in finance,
(30:15):
I mean, horrors of ours, they'rein the people business too.
Because if we don't have people,as clients, as customers,
whatever space you're in, B2B or B2C,
it falls apart.
Business needs people.
And so if we just rememberthat we are working
(30:35):
with other people,
it helps you to just have abetter attitude about things.
This whole influencer thingor whatever these titles
are that we use, I appreciate it.
I know the context, but overall,
when I'm talking to someonewho has to take leave
because there's a medicalsituation happening at home,
(30:56):
they don't care that I'm an influencer
in somebody else's eyes.
They're hoping that I can be an influencer
in their situation.
And that's what we have to remember.
- [Shari] What a great note toend on for our conversation.
This has been a lot of fun.
I think that's the word I'mgoing to use because I think
that's the best way tospend time with people
who are in our space together.
(31:17):
So thanks for taking a fewminutes of your guys' day to chat
with me.
- [Josh] Thanks for asking.- [John] Totally.
- [Shari] This podcast isbrought to you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task of today
so you can focus more onthe promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit atopic or appear as a guest
on a future episode,
(31:38):
email us at pctytalks@paylocity.com.
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