December 8, 2022 • 18 mins
It's no secret that emotional intelligence (EI) is a key ingredient to success. After all, how can you lead and inspire others if you can't relate to them emotionally? Join Bethany Adams and host Shari Simpson as they discuss what exactly emotional intelligence is and how you can develop it in yourself and your team.
Guest: Bethany J. Adams, MA, SHRM-SCP, Associate Director - Marketing & Strategy, Villanova University
Bethany Adams has more than 15 years of experience in HR and education. She began her career working in training and development and HR in the restaurant and retail industries. She has experience in both small, privately-owned businesses and large, Fortune 500 organizations. Bethany holds a BA in Psychology, MA in Organizational Management, and the SHRM-SCP certification. She currently teaches at Villanova University and serves as the Associate Director of Marketing & Strategy for the Villanova Graduate Programs in Human Resource Development. Bethany has spoken at a wide variety of HR & education conferences throughout the country on topics including strategic HR, design thinking, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and emotional intelligence. Bethany hosts an HR podcast called HR Tea.
Mentioned in the episode:
- Book: No Hard Feelings: https://amzn.to/3HimeK0
- Book: Atlas of the Heart: https://amzn.to/3P50UJT
- Brene Brown Podcast: https://brenebrown.com/podcasts/
- Bethany Adams: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethanyjadams/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
(upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,we'll stay close to the news
and info you need to succeed as an HR pro.
And together, we'll explore topics
around HR thought leadership, compliance,
and real life HR situationswe face every day.
(00:25):
(upbeat music)
Bethany, thank you so muchfor sitting down with me
and chatting today.
- Yeah, thanks for asking me to.
- So you live in this spacearound emotional intelligence,
and it's such a fascinatingtopic, but for those listening,
maybe we just start witha baseline question:
What is emotionalintelligence by definition?
- Yeah, so the academicsin the world would say
(00:48):
that emotional intelligenceis how we translate
our emotions into actionable behaviors
that are positive for us as humans.
So it's essentially taking self-awareness,
social awareness, and turning that
into relationship managementand self-management, right?
(01:09):
But the thing aboutemotional intelligence is,
we talk often about it in life skills,
but it is something that really translates
into the workplace tomake us better leaders,
to make us better teammates,just to make us better
at managing ourselves in the workplace.
So it's not just the skillfor, you know, I'm a leader,
I have to be emotionally intelligent,
(01:30):
whoever you are in an organization,
you become a betteremployee, a better coworker,
a better you if you useemotional intelligence
in your interactions with others.
- It's such a great point
because, you know, in my HR career,
I've spent a lot of time,you know, hearing, you know,
"You gotta have business acumen.
You have to know the business.
(01:51):
You have to know the numbers."
And those things are very true.
Don't get me wrong.
But now we're hearingmore about soft skills,
about empathy, about authenticity.
Why do you think we'reseeing that shift now?
- I think that we have tobecause of what we've seen happen
in the workplace over the last few years.
So when I started inthe workforce years ago,
(02:14):
we won't talk about how manyyears ago, but years ago,
I came into the workforcewith my emotions on my sleeve.
Like, I am just an emotional person.
I talk about my emotions.
I'm okay telling you how I'm feeling.
And I was told so often early on,
"Bethany, you have tolearn to rein that in.
You have to learn to check your emotions.
(02:35):
You can't bring youremotions into the workplace."
And we were told that thisis how we be professional.
That if you want to beprofessional and move up,
you need to learn to not beemotional about your work.
And I was so challenged
by don't be emotional about your work.
'Cause I'm like, "It's work.
If I care about it, if it'smy values, it's emotional,
(02:56):
and I'm going to have emotionswhen it's going right.
I'm gonna be joyful aboutit and when it sucks.
I'm gonna be pissedoff and angry about it.
And how can I not bringthat into the workplace?"
And today we are at a place
where we all collectively experienced
this emotional chargedchallenge together, right?
(03:17):
The pandemic, a lot ofthe racial challenges
that happened in 2020, likewe experienced a lot of issues
that brought us together emotionally.
And so all of a sudden we're at a place
where we're okay talking aboutemotions in the workplace.
And I think that now as leaders,
(03:37):
we're recognizing that thecheck your emotions at the door
is no longer relevant.
It's more you have to use your emotions.
- You know, I've beentalking to HR professionals
for a long time about this concept
of women crying at work, right?
That has come up, right?
So many times there's this like-
- I have emotions aboutyou bringing up this topic.
(03:58):
- Right, and I rememberwhen it clicked for me
and how to describe it tosomebody else in our profession,
I said, "Listen, when you have a,"
I'm very, I'm stereotyping right now,
"when you have a womanwho comes in your office
and she's crying and you're like,
'I don't know what to do with that.
She's crying, blah, blah, blah.'"
I'm like, "It is no differentthan when you have,"
again, stereotypical,
"a male come in your officeand they're screaming at you."
(04:20):
They are both heightened emotions.
They're both an emotional reaction
to something that they're experiencing.
So it's important that you understand
how to deal with both emotions,
and neither one is goodor bad per se, obviously,
appropriate, inappropriate,in what they're saying.
But emotions are emotions.
- Absolutely.
Well, I think, I'll challengeyou a little bit too,
(04:42):
when we think about womencrying in the workplace, right,
what about men crying in the workplace?
There's this really goodstory about Howard Schultz,
CEO of Starbucks.
So Howard Schultz leftStarbucks number of years ago,
came back at a time whenStarbucks was failing.
They were closing stores left and right.
It was just after the Great Recession.
(05:03):
And there was a lot of challengesin the Starbucks space.
And so Howard Schultzstepped back in as CEO,
and in his opening address
to, like, all the generalmanagers, he cried on stage,
and everyone was like,
"Yes, Howard. Yes.(laughs)
Show those emotions. That's amazing."
And a lot of people sat back and said,
(05:24):
"What if Howard was a woman?
What if Howard cried onstage in front of everyone
at this really challengingtime in the organization,
and he cried, would we praise her?"
- Yeah.
- No, we wouldn't.
We would be like, "She's weak.
She's not gonna lead us into..."
Well, these are the biases
that we hold aroundemotional expression, right?
(05:45):
When men yell, we're like, "You're angry.
You need to calm down."
When women cry, "You're beingtoo emotional about this.
You need to rein it in," right?
But these are our expressions
and they're also ourrules, like our biases,
our feelings rules, and we have to work
on our biases around emotional expression.
(06:07):
We have to work on understanding
that emotions are natural responses
to our environment, right?
I always say in talks that I give
and in the class that I teach,
my favorite thing aboutemotional intelligence
is that emotions are data.
We all want data, right?
We want data around everything that we do.
Give me data about, youknow, our retention rates
and our engagement ratesand all those things.
(06:29):
Your emotions are data
about your environment andwhat's happening to you.
So when you're incrediblyangry in a meeting,
what's happening in that meeting,
probably some value that youhold dear is not being upheld
or maybe some boundary
that you set is being challenged, right?
And so you're angry,
the anger is telling yousomething about what to do,
(06:50):
your sadness, your grief, theyare helping you understand
and process your environment.
If we don't use some emotions as data,
we're never gonna get toemotional intelligence.
So the piece about womencrying challenges me
because for a long timeI would always say,
"I'm not gonna cry inthe workplace," right?
Like, that's my check part.
Like, that's where I drawthe line on feelings rules.
(07:12):
But I've cried in the workplace now.
I've cried in meetings now.
I've cried to my boss now.
I've cried in lots of places.
But I've also screamed andI've also pounded the table,
but in a, like, appropriatepounding the table kind of way.
And I've now realizedthat it's not so much
about the expression that I'm giving,
it's about theappropriateness of the action
(07:33):
that I'm using in responseto how I'm feeling
and what that feeling is tellingme about what's happening.
- So as I'm listening to you,
I'm thinking about my ownemotional intelligence,
and I can be a verypassionate person at times.
And that can come across asmaybe being overly sensitive.
So I guess I'm looking fortwo pieces of advice from you.
(07:54):
How do you have the conversation
with the employee who is very passionate
and have that encouragethem to use their emotions
in a way that is productive and helpful
but also educating those managerson how to, like you said,
just uncover some of thosethings you were talking about?
Like, what is happening in the room?
Is there a value being challenge?
What coaching have yougiven people on those?
(08:15):
- So I'll start with the first question.
I think that when you're talking
about how to develop yourself, right,
it's really about your emotions.
You have to understand
how they're going tobe received by others.
And so the social awareness piece
is crucially important toemotional intelligence.
(08:36):
Because if I say, "I'm okay being angry
because I'm incrediblyangry about this situation
and I want to deliver thatpassion in a way that's effective
for what I authentically want to say,"
okay, but how's it gonna bereceived on the other end,
and who are you talking tothat's going to receive that?
So this is where the, you know,
me being told early on in my career,
(08:56):
"Bethany, you have toreign in your emotions
and check those emotions at the door."
I did that for a while, but I also think
that I've learned that doing that in a way
to help others receive theemotion that's coming later
'cause they're not gonnanot get it from me,
it's really about learninghow to deliver your emotions
(09:19):
in a way that they're going to be received
in the way you want themto be received, right?
So you're delivering passion
or you're delivering yourexcitement about something.
How is it going to be received?
And you want that person to receive it
in the way that you'retrying to deliver it.
So sometimes you have to work
on adapting your emotional delivery
so that other people receive the emotions
(09:39):
the way you want to.
- The second question was,
how do you teach managersto recognize when somebody,
maybe they're not as far in that journey
of developing their ownemotional intelligence,
but we put a lot on leaders, right?
So leaders not only do we expect them
to be emotionally intelligent,we expect them to understand
when their employees maybe aren't being
as emotionally intelligentas we need them to be.
(10:01):
So how do they start to decipher,
yeah, okay, I can see, Bethany,
that you're angry right now,
and not have a gutreaction and write you off,
oh, she's just angry, anddig into, why are you angry?
What is the message you're sending me?
- Yeah, I think for that second part,
I think for managers to want to do this,
one, they have to becommitted to the work, right?
(10:23):
They have to understand.
So there are some managers whogot to where they are today
by checking their emotions at the door.
And so we have to rememberthey were successful
because they didn't do this.
And now we're asking them to lead
in a different way thatthey're not comfortable.
And so we have to approachthem with where they are
and we have to get theirbuy-in for the work.
(10:44):
So we have to help them understand
why it's going to makethem a better leader
when they've been a good leader
or a successful leader for solong without doing this work.
So we have to help themunderstand the why.
And then I think also we haveto help managers understand
that the kinds of emotionalcharged conversations
(11:06):
that we're having in the workplace today
are not necessarily going to be the same
as the way that they've beendoing it for so long, right?
I was actually just having a conversation
with a colleague at hereat the SHRM conference,
and we were talking about neurodiversity
and neurodiversity around,like, emotional expression
(11:27):
and how there are so many people
in the workplace today whoidentify as neurodiverse,
and the way that they receive emotions,
the way that they giveemotions are not the way
that we typically expect foremotions to be displayed.
And so for managers whohave been successful
for so long by expectingeveryone else to adapt
(11:51):
to this normal professionalway of responding to emotion,
we have to help them understand
that that's probablynot what's going to work
in the workplace in the future, right?
If we want the skills and the talent
of those amazing neurodiverse people,
we have to be willing to adapt
to how they want to deliver emotions,
(12:11):
how they authentically connect
because that's how we're going to get
their best authenticselves in the workplace.
And it's challenging, right?
If I'm used to doingsomething the same way,
if you ask me to go drive my car
and all of a sudden you switch me,
if I had to go to, like, London
and drive on the other side of the road,
I'm gonna be like, "Idon't know what I'm doing.
Like, this is so awkwardand uncomfortable," right?
(12:33):
It's awkward and uncomfortable to do work
in a way that we've never done before,
but we have to just teach them,
we have to help give them the skills,
we have to ask them for feedbackabout what they're doing,
ask them to ask for feedback.
And when we do that, Icouldn't drive in London
on the other side of the road,like, day one of being there,
(12:53):
but if you, like, put me in for 10 minutes
and then took me out and then, like,
as I start doing it by, like,a week, I'm gonna be good.
I can drive, right?
It'll take me a little bitto adapt, but I can do it.
So it's the same thing with this.
It's just kind of using emotional muscles
that we're not used tousing in the workplace
for those particular leaders.
- So as we get a littlebit tactical, you know,
(13:14):
and you're listening, you'relike, "Okay, I get it,
I need to grow this muscle,"
what are the resources thatyou should be tapping into?
Is it, you know, a list of books?
Is it practice exercises?
You know, what in your experiencehas been the best tools
and resources to helppeople grow in this area?
- Yeah, so my favorite book
on emotional intelligence cameout a couple of years ago.
It's by two authors, Liz and Mollie,
(13:36):
and it's called "No Hard Feelings."
And it's a really easy read
and it's a really kind of introduction
into emotional intelligencein the workplace
and also, it's good not only
for developing, like,managers and leaders,
it's also good for just,like, self-reflection
about how you respond
and the kinds of emotionsyou bring into your work.
When I was reading that book,
(13:57):
one of the chapters is on nottaking your work so seriously.
And I was like,
"No, of course I take mywork seriously, right?
Like, I'm passionate.
It's, like, what I do,it's how I add value.
Why would I not take it so seriously?"
And then I realize, like, I drain myself.
I get so emotional about it.
I'm so connected in that I can't step out
and see the bigger picture about how
(14:19):
or where I'm addingvalue or where I'm not.
And so for me, that book was amazing.
Even though I've been inthis space for a while,
it was still even better to read it.
That's a book that I use actuallyin the class that I teach.
Brene Brown actually has a new book
called "Atlas of the Heart"
and it's basically like adictionary of emotions, right?
So you're like, "I'm feeling grief.
I'm gonna go to the griefsection and pull that one up."
(14:42):
So it's a great read.
And then she actuallydid an HBO Max series
with an audience all talkingabout emotions, about work,
about the challenges we'vehad through the pandemic.
And that is, if you're not a reader,
like, go watch thatseries, it's really good.
It's kind of insightful to thekinds of emotions you'll feel
(15:02):
about the things that peopleare talking about as well.
Then also there's a tonof great HBR articles.
Look into the work of Susan David,
and there's just some really amazing stuff
out there that you canfind if you're just like,
if you're just peaked in interest
about how do I do this better.
- I will make sure toinclude all of those links
in the show notes because, you know,
(15:23):
I'm always looking formy next book to devour.
So I love those suggestions.
I love Brene Brown, andI've never met somebody
who doesn't love Brene Brown, so.
- I know, she's, you know,
this year, she, like, just sort of stepped
back into the space of podcastingbecause she took time off,
and the podcasts that she's put out now
I feel, like, are so real
(15:44):
because she took this time to step away
and, like, figure outchallenges she was facing.
And so she did some new ones recently
with Adam Grant and Simon Sinek.
They're amazing stuff.
Oh, I thought of one more thing
that's like a exercise that you can do.
So one of the thingsthat I talk to students
about all the time in my classes
is building your emotionalvocabulary, right?
(16:05):
So to talk about emotions,
you have to understand your emotions,
but if somebody asksyou how you're feeling,
how do you typically respond?
"I'm happy. I'm sad. I'm angry."
Okay, those are three emotions,
but, like, anger has, like,a whole spectrum, right?
Are you, like, furious with me
(16:25):
or are you, like, irritated with me?
Because irritated
and furious are twovery different emotions.
So if we get better atour emotional vocabulary,
we're better able to deliver the data
we want someone else to like,
"I am irritated with you.I am furious with you."
You're getting better data
because I described my emotion better.
(16:45):
So there's this really easy exercise.
Like, give yourself one minuteand write down every emotion
that you can think of.
And if you do that, like,don't do it every day,
but, like, if you do it, you know,
once a month or something,
you'll start to see that youdevelop emotional vocabulary,
you start using different language
because you are thinkingabout the kind of language
around the emotions that you use.
(17:07):
And so then you make it better for others
as they get that emotional data.
- I feel like I should find a link
to remember back in the daywhere that was the magnet
and you could, like,
move the little square.- Oh yeah.
Right, like, here'swhere I'm feeling today.
- You gotta bring that back.
- Yeah, and you, like,strategically put it
on the one that you want,
like, you know, your partner to see.
(17:27):
Like, "Do you see that I'm furious?"
Furious. That was lastnight, or whatever it was.
- Yeah, yeah. I love it.
Well, this has been sucha great conversation,
and thank you so much for allthe great resources and tools.
I think it's something, you know,
a lot of people are lookingfor, so I appreciate it.
- Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task of today
(17:51):
so you can focus more onthe promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit atopic or appear as a guest
on a future episode, email usat pctytalks@paylocity.com.
(lively music)
(upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,we'll stay close to the news
and info you need to succeed as an HR pro.
And together, we'll explore topics
around HR thought leadership, compliance,
and real life HR situationswe face every day.
(00:25):
(upbeat music)
Bethany, thank you so muchfor sitting down with me
and chatting today.
- Yeah, thanks for asking me to.
- So you live in this spacearound emotional intelligence,
and it's such a fascinatingtopic, but for those listening,
maybe we just start witha baseline question:
What is emotionalintelligence by definition?
- Yeah, so the academicsin the world would say
(00:48):
that emotional intelligenceis how we translate
our emotions into actionable behaviors
that are positive for us as humans.
So it's essentially taking self-awareness,
social awareness, and turning that
into relationship managementand self-management, right?
(01:09):
But the thing aboutemotional intelligence is,
we talk often about it in life skills,
but it is something that really translates
into the workplace tomake us better leaders,
to make us better teammates,just to make us better
at managing ourselves in the workplace.
So it's not just the skillfor, you know, I'm a leader,
I have to be emotionally intelligent,
(01:30):
whoever you are in an organization,
you become a betteremployee, a better coworker,
a better you if you useemotional intelligence
in your interactions with others.
- It's such a great point
because, you know, in my HR career,
I've spent a lot of time,you know, hearing, you know,
"You gotta have business acumen.
You have to know the business.
(01:51):
You have to know the numbers."
And those things are very true.
Don't get me wrong.
But now we're hearingmore about soft skills,
about empathy, about authenticity.
Why do you think we'reseeing that shift now?
- I think that we have tobecause of what we've seen happen
in the workplace over the last few years.
So when I started inthe workforce years ago,
(02:14):
we won't talk about how manyyears ago, but years ago,
I came into the workforcewith my emotions on my sleeve.
Like, I am just an emotional person.
I talk about my emotions.
I'm okay telling you how I'm feeling.
And I was told so often early on,
"Bethany, you have tolearn to rein that in.
You have to learn to check your emotions.
(02:35):
You can't bring youremotions into the workplace."
And we were told that thisis how we be professional.
That if you want to beprofessional and move up,
you need to learn to not beemotional about your work.
And I was so challenged
by don't be emotional about your work.
'Cause I'm like, "It's work.
If I care about it, if it'smy values, it's emotional,
(02:56):
and I'm going to have emotionswhen it's going right.
I'm gonna be joyful aboutit and when it sucks.
I'm gonna be pissedoff and angry about it.
And how can I not bringthat into the workplace?"
And today we are at a place
where we all collectively experienced
this emotional chargedchallenge together, right?
(03:17):
The pandemic, a lot ofthe racial challenges
that happened in 2020, likewe experienced a lot of issues
that brought us together emotionally.
And so all of a sudden we're at a place
where we're okay talking aboutemotions in the workplace.
And I think that now as leaders,
(03:37):
we're recognizing that thecheck your emotions at the door
is no longer relevant.
It's more you have to use your emotions.
- You know, I've beentalking to HR professionals
for a long time about this concept
of women crying at work, right?
That has come up, right?
So many times there's this like-
- I have emotions aboutyou bringing up this topic.
(03:58):
- Right, and I rememberwhen it clicked for me
and how to describe it tosomebody else in our profession,
I said, "Listen, when you have a,"
I'm very, I'm stereotyping right now,
"when you have a womanwho comes in your office
and she's crying and you're like,
'I don't know what to do with that.
She's crying, blah, blah, blah.'"
I'm like, "It is no differentthan when you have,"
again, stereotypical,
"a male come in your officeand they're screaming at you."
(04:20):
They are both heightened emotions.
They're both an emotional reaction
to something that they're experiencing.
So it's important that you understand
how to deal with both emotions,
and neither one is goodor bad per se, obviously,
appropriate, inappropriate,in what they're saying.
But emotions are emotions.
- Absolutely.
Well, I think, I'll challengeyou a little bit too,
(04:42):
when we think about womencrying in the workplace, right,
what about men crying in the workplace?
There's this really goodstory about Howard Schultz,
CEO of Starbucks.
So Howard Schultz leftStarbucks number of years ago,
came back at a time whenStarbucks was failing.
They were closing stores left and right.
It was just after the Great Recession.
(05:03):
And there was a lot of challengesin the Starbucks space.
And so Howard Schultzstepped back in as CEO,
and in his opening address
to, like, all the generalmanagers, he cried on stage,
and everyone was like,
"Yes, Howard. Yes.(laughs)
Show those emotions. That's amazing."
And a lot of people sat back and said,
(05:24):
"What if Howard was a woman?
What if Howard cried onstage in front of everyone
at this really challengingtime in the organization,
and he cried, would we praise her?"
- Yeah.
- No, we wouldn't.
We would be like, "She's weak.
She's not gonna lead us into..."
Well, these are the biases
that we hold aroundemotional expression, right?
(05:45):
When men yell, we're like, "You're angry.
You need to calm down."
When women cry, "You're beingtoo emotional about this.
You need to rein it in," right?
But these are our expressions
and they're also ourrules, like our biases,
our feelings rules, and we have to work
on our biases around emotional expression.
(06:07):
We have to work on understanding
that emotions are natural responses
to our environment, right?
I always say in talks that I give
and in the class that I teach,
my favorite thing aboutemotional intelligence
is that emotions are data.
We all want data, right?
We want data around everything that we do.
Give me data about, youknow, our retention rates
and our engagement ratesand all those things.
(06:29):
Your emotions are data
about your environment andwhat's happening to you.
So when you're incrediblyangry in a meeting,
what's happening in that meeting,
probably some value that youhold dear is not being upheld
or maybe some boundary
that you set is being challenged, right?
And so you're angry,
the anger is telling yousomething about what to do,
(06:50):
your sadness, your grief, theyare helping you understand
and process your environment.
If we don't use some emotions as data,
we're never gonna get toemotional intelligence.
So the piece about womencrying challenges me
because for a long timeI would always say,
"I'm not gonna cry inthe workplace," right?
Like, that's my check part.
Like, that's where I drawthe line on feelings rules.
(07:12):
But I've cried in the workplace now.
I've cried in meetings now.
I've cried to my boss now.
I've cried in lots of places.
But I've also screamed andI've also pounded the table,
but in a, like, appropriatepounding the table kind of way.
And I've now realizedthat it's not so much
about the expression that I'm giving,
it's about theappropriateness of the action
(07:33):
that I'm using in responseto how I'm feeling
and what that feeling is tellingme about what's happening.
- So as I'm listening to you,
I'm thinking about my ownemotional intelligence,
and I can be a verypassionate person at times.
And that can come across asmaybe being overly sensitive.
So I guess I'm looking fortwo pieces of advice from you.
(07:54):
How do you have the conversation
with the employee who is very passionate
and have that encouragethem to use their emotions
in a way that is productive and helpful
but also educating those managerson how to, like you said,
just uncover some of thosethings you were talking about?
Like, what is happening in the room?
Is there a value being challenge?
What coaching have yougiven people on those?
(08:15):
- So I'll start with the first question.
I think that when you're talking
about how to develop yourself, right,
it's really about your emotions.
You have to understand
how they're going tobe received by others.
And so the social awareness piece
is crucially important toemotional intelligence.
(08:36):
Because if I say, "I'm okay being angry
because I'm incrediblyangry about this situation
and I want to deliver thatpassion in a way that's effective
for what I authentically want to say,"
okay, but how's it gonna bereceived on the other end,
and who are you talking tothat's going to receive that?
So this is where the, you know,
me being told early on in my career,
(08:56):
"Bethany, you have toreign in your emotions
and check those emotions at the door."
I did that for a while, but I also think
that I've learned that doing that in a way
to help others receive theemotion that's coming later
'cause they're not gonnanot get it from me,
it's really about learninghow to deliver your emotions
(09:19):
in a way that they're going to be received
in the way you want themto be received, right?
So you're delivering passion
or you're delivering yourexcitement about something.
How is it going to be received?
And you want that person to receive it
in the way that you'retrying to deliver it.
So sometimes you have to work
on adapting your emotional delivery
so that other people receive the emotions
(09:39):
the way you want to.
- The second question was,
how do you teach managersto recognize when somebody,
maybe they're not as far in that journey
of developing their ownemotional intelligence,
but we put a lot on leaders, right?
So leaders not only do we expect them
to be emotionally intelligent,we expect them to understand
when their employees maybe aren't being
as emotionally intelligentas we need them to be.
(10:01):
So how do they start to decipher,
yeah, okay, I can see, Bethany,
that you're angry right now,
and not have a gutreaction and write you off,
oh, she's just angry, anddig into, why are you angry?
What is the message you're sending me?
- Yeah, I think for that second part,
I think for managers to want to do this,
one, they have to becommitted to the work, right?
(10:23):
They have to understand.
So there are some managers whogot to where they are today
by checking their emotions at the door.
And so we have to rememberthey were successful
because they didn't do this.
And now we're asking them to lead
in a different way thatthey're not comfortable.
And so we have to approachthem with where they are
and we have to get theirbuy-in for the work.
(10:44):
So we have to help them understand
why it's going to makethem a better leader
when they've been a good leader
or a successful leader for solong without doing this work.
So we have to help themunderstand the why.
And then I think also we haveto help managers understand
that the kinds of emotionalcharged conversations
(11:06):
that we're having in the workplace today
are not necessarily going to be the same
as the way that they've beendoing it for so long, right?
I was actually just having a conversation
with a colleague at hereat the SHRM conference,
and we were talking about neurodiversity
and neurodiversity around,like, emotional expression
(11:27):
and how there are so many people
in the workplace today whoidentify as neurodiverse,
and the way that they receive emotions,
the way that they giveemotions are not the way
that we typically expect foremotions to be displayed.
And so for managers whohave been successful
for so long by expectingeveryone else to adapt
(11:51):
to this normal professionalway of responding to emotion,
we have to help them understand
that that's probablynot what's going to work
in the workplace in the future, right?
If we want the skills and the talent
of those amazing neurodiverse people,
we have to be willing to adapt
to how they want to deliver emotions,
(12:11):
how they authentically connect
because that's how we're going to get
their best authenticselves in the workplace.
And it's challenging, right?
If I'm used to doingsomething the same way,
if you ask me to go drive my car
and all of a sudden you switch me,
if I had to go to, like, London
and drive on the other side of the road,
I'm gonna be like, "Idon't know what I'm doing.
Like, this is so awkwardand uncomfortable," right?
(12:33):
It's awkward and uncomfortable to do work
in a way that we've never done before,
but we have to just teach them,
we have to help give them the skills,
we have to ask them for feedbackabout what they're doing,
ask them to ask for feedback.
And when we do that, Icouldn't drive in London
on the other side of the road,like, day one of being there,
(12:53):
but if you, like, put me in for 10 minutes
and then took me out and then, like,
as I start doing it by, like,a week, I'm gonna be good.
I can drive, right?
It'll take me a little bitto adapt, but I can do it.
So it's the same thing with this.
It's just kind of using emotional muscles
that we're not used tousing in the workplace
for those particular leaders.
- So as we get a littlebit tactical, you know,
(13:14):
and you're listening, you'relike, "Okay, I get it,
I need to grow this muscle,"
what are the resources thatyou should be tapping into?
Is it, you know, a list of books?
Is it practice exercises?
You know, what in your experiencehas been the best tools
and resources to helppeople grow in this area?
- Yeah, so my favorite book
on emotional intelligence cameout a couple of years ago.
It's by two authors, Liz and Mollie,
(13:36):
and it's called "No Hard Feelings."
And it's a really easy read
and it's a really kind of introduction
into emotional intelligencein the workplace
and also, it's good not only
for developing, like,managers and leaders,
it's also good for just,like, self-reflection
about how you respond
and the kinds of emotionsyou bring into your work.
When I was reading that book,
(13:57):
one of the chapters is on nottaking your work so seriously.
And I was like,
"No, of course I take mywork seriously, right?
Like, I'm passionate.
It's, like, what I do,it's how I add value.
Why would I not take it so seriously?"
And then I realize, like, I drain myself.
I get so emotional about it.
I'm so connected in that I can't step out
and see the bigger picture about how
(14:19):
or where I'm addingvalue or where I'm not.
And so for me, that book was amazing.
Even though I've been inthis space for a while,
it was still even better to read it.
That's a book that I use actuallyin the class that I teach.
Brene Brown actually has a new book
called "Atlas of the Heart"
and it's basically like adictionary of emotions, right?
So you're like, "I'm feeling grief.
I'm gonna go to the griefsection and pull that one up."
(14:42):
So it's a great read.
And then she actuallydid an HBO Max series
with an audience all talkingabout emotions, about work,
about the challenges we'vehad through the pandemic.
And that is, if you're not a reader,
like, go watch thatseries, it's really good.
It's kind of insightful to thekinds of emotions you'll feel
(15:02):
about the things that peopleare talking about as well.
Then also there's a tonof great HBR articles.
Look into the work of Susan David,
and there's just some really amazing stuff
out there that you canfind if you're just like,
if you're just peaked in interest
about how do I do this better.
- I will make sure toinclude all of those links
in the show notes because, you know,
(15:23):
I'm always looking formy next book to devour.
So I love those suggestions.
I love Brene Brown, andI've never met somebody
who doesn't love Brene Brown, so.
- I know, she's, you know,
this year, she, like, just sort of stepped
back into the space of podcastingbecause she took time off,
and the podcasts that she's put out now
I feel, like, are so real
(15:44):
because she took this time to step away
and, like, figure outchallenges she was facing.
And so she did some new ones recently
with Adam Grant and Simon Sinek.
They're amazing stuff.
Oh, I thought of one more thing
that's like a exercise that you can do.
So one of the thingsthat I talk to students
about all the time in my classes
is building your emotionalvocabulary, right?
(16:05):
So to talk about emotions,
you have to understand your emotions,
but if somebody asksyou how you're feeling,
how do you typically respond?
"I'm happy. I'm sad. I'm angry."
Okay, those are three emotions,
but, like, anger has, like,a whole spectrum, right?
Are you, like, furious with me
(16:25):
or are you, like, irritated with me?
Because irritated
and furious are twovery different emotions.
So if we get better atour emotional vocabulary,
we're better able to deliver the data
we want someone else to like,
"I am irritated with you.I am furious with you."
You're getting better data
because I described my emotion better.
(16:45):
So there's this really easy exercise.
Like, give yourself one minuteand write down every emotion
that you can think of.
And if you do that, like,don't do it every day,
but, like, if you do it, you know,
once a month or something,
you'll start to see that youdevelop emotional vocabulary,
you start using different language
because you are thinkingabout the kind of language
around the emotions that you use.
(17:07):
And so then you make it better for others
as they get that emotional data.
- I feel like I should find a link
to remember back in the daywhere that was the magnet
and you could, like,
move the little square.- Oh yeah.
Right, like, here'swhere I'm feeling today.
- You gotta bring that back.
- Yeah, and you, like,strategically put it
on the one that you want,
like, you know, your partner to see.
(17:27):
Like, "Do you see that I'm furious?"
Furious. That was lastnight, or whatever it was.
- Yeah, yeah. I love it.
Well, this has been sucha great conversation,
and thank you so much for allthe great resources and tools.
I think it's something, you know,
a lot of people are lookingfor, so I appreciate it.
- Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task of today
(17:51):
so you can focus more onthe promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit atopic or appear as a guest
on a future episode, email usat pctytalks@paylocity.com.
(lively music)
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!