December 29, 2022 • 16 mins
Do you manage an hourly workforce? You're not alone. A recent study found that around 60% of businesses in the US rely on hourly employees. But managing a shift-based workforce can be tricky. If you're not careful, you could wind up with scheduling nightmares and angry employees. Join Traci Chernoff and host Shari Simpson as they discuss the benefits of modern workforce management tools used to optimize staffing levels and keep employees informed.
Guest Bio: Traci Chernoff, Senior Director of Employee Engagement, Legion Technologies
Traci Chernoff is the Director of Employee Engagement at Legion Technologies and an experienced HR leader. Before joining Legion, Traci spent nearly a decade in key HR leadership roles for both luxury and big-box retailers like Target, directly supporting retail management and hourly teams across North America. Recently, Traci worked as a Director of Human Resources for global luxury retailer SMCP, where store managers could reduce the time spent on scheduling by 50% with Legion Workforce Management. Traci is the host and creator of the podcast "Bringing the Human back to Human Resources," where she destigmatizes HR by uniting employee demands and business needs while simultaneously challenging the perceptions and stigmas surrounding HR.
Mentioned in the episode:
- Podcast: Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources
- Company: Legion Technologies
- LinkedIn: Traci Chernoff
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,
we'll stay close to thenews and info you need
to succeed as an HR pro.
And together, we'll explore topics
around HR thought leadership, compliance,
(00:22):
and real-life HR situationswe face every day.
(upbeat music continues)
Joining me on the podcasttoday is Traci Chernoff.
She is the director of employee engagement
at Legion Technologies,
and she actually hosts a podcast herself
called "Bringing the HumanBack to Human Resources."
(00:42):
So Traci, thanks forjumping on with me today.
- Thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to chat with you today.
- So you've been doing a lot of speaking
on the topic around attracting
and retaining hourly employees,
which we know right now is so important.
So, I'd love to hear your perspective on
some of the key differencescompanies need to consider
from that hourly versussalaried population.
(01:03):
- Totally, so this might bea little bit of a hot take,
and I'm sure there will be some questions
and thoughts coming out of this,
but actually, I don't believethere's much of a difference.
And I say this havingrecruited both hourly
and salaried employeesthroughout my career.
And the reason why I say thatis because hourly employees
want and need the same benefits
(01:26):
and characteristics of employment
that salaried employees do.
And that comes down
to schedule flexibilityand predictability,
fair and competitive compensation,
and predictable scheduling.
So it's not just the flexibility.
It's also being able to have the life
that people want to designand create for themselves.
(01:47):
And so, that's where I would say
there really isn't much of a difference.
And the closer we can see hourly employees
to salaried employees interms of their demands,
the easier it actuallyis for us to solve some
of these challenges.
Because really, the biggest difference
between an hourly anda salaried employee is
how they're earning their income.
And at the end of the day,
(02:08):
they're all human beings,we're all human beings,
and we kind of all want the same things.
- Do you see technologybeing used differently
in these populations?
- Technology is reallyimportant when it comes
to not only attractingand retaining employees
but also meeting the demands.
I mean, the reality is,
is that Gen Z is going toend up being the majority
(02:29):
of the workforce probablyin the near future,
and we have to,
we're already in a tech-focusedspace as a society,
as a global community, right?
So everything, I mean, ourphones are right next to us,
I'm sure, and that just shows
that technology, everythingbeing at our fingertips
is not only a demand, it's an expectation.
(02:50):
And so, when it comes to,
like even if we think about a business
that is leveraging like the gig economy.
Everything is at the person's fingertips,
both the consumer and the employee.
And so, recognizing thatthat is driven by technology,
that's the first step.
The second step, I wouldsay, is that we, again,
hourly employees wantingand needing the same thing
(03:11):
as salaried employees,
that part of that is having this ability
to see a schedule, havea predictable schedule.
I really think that has a huge influence
on people's experiences.
I like to use this example
of, you know, you goto your local Starbucks
and you order a coffee.
And you're ordering a coffeeprobably from a person,
(03:34):
maybe the mobile app, butat the end of the day,
there's a human being behind your order.
And we're not necessarily always thinking
about that human being.
Like, what is Genesis,some arbitrary name, right,
like let's say there'sGenesis the barista down
at my local Starbucksmaking my caffe misto.
She might have a babyshower to go to on Friday,
(03:56):
but if she doesn't havea predictable schedule
or a way to swap shifts or a way to say,
"Hey, I need some flexibility this week,"
then we're asking Genesisto actually give up
a piece of her life.
And so, this is where, for me,
scheduling predictability, flexibility,
it's hugely impactful,
and I do think there aremany technologies out there
that you and I are both aware of
(04:16):
that really drive this forward.
- It completely highlights the idea
of employees wantinginside of their workforces
the same experiences they'regetting as consumers.
- You know, as you were
talking about,- Right.
- You know, apps and engaging,
I was thinking about Instacart.
I'm obsessed with Instacart.(Traci laughing)
It was such a huge helpduring the pandemic,
and I haven't been ableto let go of it since.
(04:36):
(Traci laughing)
But you know, it's, you're right,
there is a person at the end of that app
who's actually doing the work.
And they need flexibility inhow they use that app as well
as to when they're available,
when they're not available,
decisions on whether they'regonna take a job or not
based on tips.
So that completely alignswith what we've been thinking
and talking about when itcomes to the gig economy.
(04:58):
You know, as technologyevolves in this space, though,
I think there's a lot inthe artificial intelligence
and algorithm space thatcan really help influence
the technology that theseemployees are gonna need.
What are some of the trendsthat you're seeing there?
- In terms of trends, I mean,
I think that demand forecasting is huge.
And what I mean by demandforecasting is really
(05:19):
allowing businesses to kindof give up the memorization
that they've needed to master
in order to schedule and create
really this understanding
of what their business drivers look like.
And I can tell you frommy retail experience,
you know, everyone says,
"No one knows a business better
(05:40):
than a store manager," right?
Like, you won't findanyone that knows numbers,
metrics, traffic like a store manager.
But at the end of the day,
a human brain, as far as I'm aware,
I'm not an expert in this,but as far as I'm aware,
the human brain can onlycompute so much, so often.
And so, when we think aboutartificial intelligence,
this is where we can say,
(06:01):
"Hey, store manager, youare really good at this.
But our computer is going to be able
to take all of those demand drivers
that you've had to memorizefor years and years and years
and be that acting force for you
to create a forecast basedon those demand drivers."
So that's really demand forecasting.
And so, if you think about,
you walk into your localTarget or Trader Joe's,
(06:23):
hopefully, there are theperfect number of cashiers.
Well, that's only happening thanks
to artificial intelligence and technology
that enables forecastingand demand drivers
to meet in the middle in thisperfect harmonious place.
And you know, when we thinkabout the trends really,
especially with the gig economy,
(06:44):
this allows managers and employees
to have a harmonious experience.
Managers are often saying,
"I am inundated with havingto manage my employee requests
on top of business needs."
And I'm always asked the question,
"Well, how do you reconcile this?
How do businesses have their needs met
and how do employeeshave their flexibility
(07:06):
and predictability needs met?"
Well, this is how, through technology,
finding those nooks and crannies.
Thanks to artificial intelligence,
which can compute much faster, much better
than the human brain,
we now have resolvedand reconciled the time
that managers are spending,which in my experience,
was more than 10 hours everytime scheduling came up,
(07:28):
you're giving, you're taking that 10 hours
and giving it back to a store manager.
They're able to reinvest that time.
It drives revenue up.
It allows them to spend moretime with their employees,
and therefore, it actuallyimpacts employee experience.
So, I'm really hoping that,
through having these conversations,
including the one that we're having now,
that business leadersin HR and outside of HR
(07:50):
can really see the potential
when we think about technology
impacting employee experience.
- My husband's in chargeof the schedule at his,
he's a fireman.
He's at a fire department.- Oh, cool.
- And I can't tell you howmany hours he spends a week
(laughing) moving thingsaround when people call in.
- It's brutal.
(08:10):
- So just as, I'm sure that'strue for all the managers
listening who have thaton their task list to do.
You know, I think some of the technologies
that we've seen out therethat allow more choice
for the employees, youknow, shift swapping,
flexibility in maybe shiftcoverage or job sharing
or all those kinds of things,
those work really well intandem with the technology
(08:32):
you're talking about,
where the algorithms can kind of know,
yeah, okay, these people can switch,
these people can't, here'swhere it's gonna be higher
and we need more workforce,
here's where we don'tneed as many employees,
so like we can adjustour schedule that way.
How have you seen thesechanges in technology
actually increase employeeengagement and culture?
- So, I have seen it firsthandin my retail experience.
(08:54):
I work at Legion.
I had Legion as a customer,
so I've seen both sides.
And actually, when you thinkabout what technology does
and what I even experienceon the customer side,
if you're focusingtechnology, your tech stack,
whatever it is that a company has,
even if it's one thing,one piece of technology,
(09:15):
and the decision-maker isfocused on the audience,
I will guarantee you thetechnology will work.
And this, I have to stand ona soapbox for a moment here.
I always, always, alwayscall out this point
that when someone is making a decision,
when someone's adding a tool, technology,
(09:35):
or bringing something to an organization,
those decision-makers areusually sitting higher up
on the hierarchical ladder, right?
And I've been there.
But there is nothing worse
than that decision-makerjust making a decision
based on what they knowwithout bringing in
such important and critical stakeholders.
(09:56):
When I was in retail and Iwas rolling out tools myself,
I would always bring in managers,
select store managers, district managers,
regional managers, and even sometimes
like the hourly sales associate.
Because if you're notsolving their problems,
then what problems are you solving for?
Like, you're just looking to add something
(10:17):
onto your resume that you'veaccomplished something?
That does nothing.
So, if you are adding to your tech stack,
if you are expanding thetools that you do have,
I can only implore you as many times
as you're willing tolisten to this podcast
over and over again(Shari laughing)
that you absolutely must think about,
who is your audience?
Do you have any of yourstakeholders in on the conversation,
(10:40):
and are you actuallysolving their challenges
and their problems?
- I can just feel the pain in your voice
from past experiences.(Traci laughing)
And I've been there.- I'm scarred.
- There's been plenty oftimes we've worked on projects
where, you know, youthink you're solving for A
and it's really, you know, B, C, D
that the employees are experiencing
and you've added somethingto their list of things to do
(11:04):
rather than creating- Yes
- Or launching a tool that'sactually gonna help them.
You know, we talk so much in HR about,
you know, people first,employee-centric, experience-based.
Sometimes we just miss the mark with that
when it comes to technology specifically.
- Yes, I, you'll hear this.
If you've ever listened to anyof my episodes on my podcast,
which I do not expect you to,
(11:26):
I will always, I happento often talk about this,
that you know, you look on LinkedIn
or you look on other social channels
and there's such anopportunity for everyone
to have a platform, right?
Which is amazing.
However, a lot of thethings that I'm reading
all the time are like usingthese buzzwords, right,
employee experience,leveraging like people,
(11:49):
let's focus on people and humanity,
but there's never a clear understanding
of like what, why we're doingthis, what we're doing it for,
and how we're going to do it.
Like, the action behind theintention is so important.
And I love that now, more than ever,
people in HR and outside ofHR are talking about this,
because that's part ofthe problem that we've had
(12:10):
leading up until reallythe last few years,
that it was just like HR leaders screaming
from the rooftops, "Weneed to focus on people."
And now, everyone's sayingthat, which is fabulous.
So I certainly am not knocking that.
That, we want to see more of.
But now it's like, okay, well,
we know what the challenge is.
We have to focus on how we solveit truly and authentically,
(12:31):
and this even brings up thewhole like quiet quitting thing,
which I also spend alotta time breaking down.
Like, there's nothingwrong with quiet quitting.
All we're talking about
are people setting boundaries, right?
So why have we made such progress
talking about how people matter
and they're at the coreof every single thing
that we have to do,
and then we're like, "Oh, quiet quitting,
you're setting boundaries,why are you doing that?"
(12:52):
We have to embrace the human condition
and give people the spaceto really be who they are
and, you know, again, solve,truly solve the problems,
not just hitting the buzzwords,
but really breakingdown what they all mean
and how we can actuallydrive those things forward.
- We've talked a lotabout quiet quitting too
and I couldn't agree more(Traci laughing)
(13:13):
that it's not what people think it is.
So, I appreciate you
bringing that up.- Right.
(Traci laughing)
- And you know, thischange in the way we view
about technology, I think a part of it
is definitely driven by GenZ coming into the workforce.
You know, they are gonnaexpect answers, you know?
"Yeah great, I love thatyou're rolling out a new tool.
Why? Why do I need to use it?
(13:34):
I'm already doing"- Right.
- "A, B, and C that'llsolve the problem I have.
Is this gonna help me?"
And there's onus on leadership in HR
to be able to answer those questions now,
like there never was before.
- Totally, and you know what?
This just made me thinkabout something too.
Part of the, like this focuson employee experience,
(13:55):
quiet quitting, likethis whole bubble, right,
that has formed reallycoming out of COVID,
everyone's thought throughwhat their lives mean now,
and to just put it plainly.
When we think about like the way
that business has kind of always operated,
at least in the last, let'ssay, three to four decades,
it's been like churning,churning, churning out results.
(14:16):
And I actually feel like oneof the biggest differences
in the last few years
is that people actuallywanna slow down a little bit.
People want to see a long-term solution
that's authentic, that means something,
that isn't just like,"Okay, we have to do this,
so let's get something on paper."
And I think that Gen Z isreally to credit this to,
because there is this expectation of,
(14:39):
"Well, why am I doing thisand why do I need to do it?
Let's think a little bit more critically
about all of the things
that we've done up until this point."
And I think it's a wonderful thing.
And so, when we think about how business
probably needs to continueto evolve and change
along with the technology thatwe continue to see evolve,
I think that business leaders might need
to become accustomed to movinga little bit more slowly,
(15:00):
thinking through, "Okay, whatis the long-term strategy
and how are we going to get there?"
And part of that, I think,
part of that moving really fast is wanting
a competitive advantage, of course.
Businesses need that.
But I just, I don't know,
I'm feeling a tectonic plate shifting
and I do think that that ispart of the boundary setting,
(15:20):
people don't want to work15 hours a day anymore
for the most part.
I know I'm generalizing, but you know,
hopefully you can get whatI'm trying to say here.
- I think everything that you mention
about the future of work is so important
for everybody to think through,
how that's gonna showup in your organization.
You know, I do think that,
you know, we used to talkabout five-year plans
(15:42):
and now we talk about,you know, two-year plans
because of the pandemic.
But there is some truth in, you know,
thinking slow but movingfast when you have to,
but having that kindof slow thought process
and really thinking about,
what is the experience I'mcreating for my employees
and my customers,
is a little bit different than I think
how we've thought about it in the past.
We haven't necessarilyled with experience.
(16:03):
We've led with programor tactical or process
that we have to accomplish.
So, I think these insightsare really helpful.
I hope our listeners got a lotout of our discussion, Traci,
so thanks for jumping on with me today.
- Of course, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate the opportunity.
(upbeat music)
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider that frees you
(16:24):
from the tasks of todayso you can focus more
on the promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit a topic
or appear as a guest on a future episode,
email us at pctytalks@paylocity.com.
(upbeat music continues)
(upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,
we'll stay close to thenews and info you need
to succeed as an HR pro.
And together, we'll explore topics
around HR thought leadership, compliance,
(00:22):
and real-life HR situationswe face every day.
(upbeat music continues)
Joining me on the podcasttoday is Traci Chernoff.
She is the director of employee engagement
at Legion Technologies,
and she actually hosts a podcast herself
called "Bringing the HumanBack to Human Resources."
(00:42):
So Traci, thanks forjumping on with me today.
- Thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to chat with you today.
- So you've been doing a lot of speaking
on the topic around attracting
and retaining hourly employees,
which we know right now is so important.
So, I'd love to hear your perspective on
some of the key differencescompanies need to consider
from that hourly versussalaried population.
(01:03):
- Totally, so this might bea little bit of a hot take,
and I'm sure there will be some questions
and thoughts coming out of this,
but actually, I don't believethere's much of a difference.
And I say this havingrecruited both hourly
and salaried employeesthroughout my career.
And the reason why I say thatis because hourly employees
want and need the same benefits
(01:26):
and characteristics of employment
that salaried employees do.
And that comes down
to schedule flexibilityand predictability,
fair and competitive compensation,
and predictable scheduling.
So it's not just the flexibility.
It's also being able to have the life
that people want to designand create for themselves.
(01:47):
And so, that's where I would say
there really isn't much of a difference.
And the closer we can see hourly employees
to salaried employees interms of their demands,
the easier it actuallyis for us to solve some
of these challenges.
Because really, the biggest difference
between an hourly anda salaried employee is
how they're earning their income.
And at the end of the day,
(02:08):
they're all human beings,we're all human beings,
and we kind of all want the same things.
- Do you see technologybeing used differently
in these populations?
- Technology is reallyimportant when it comes
to not only attractingand retaining employees
but also meeting the demands.
I mean, the reality is,
is that Gen Z is going toend up being the majority
(02:29):
of the workforce probablyin the near future,
and we have to,
we're already in a tech-focusedspace as a society,
as a global community, right?
So everything, I mean, ourphones are right next to us,
I'm sure, and that just shows
that technology, everythingbeing at our fingertips
is not only a demand, it's an expectation.
(02:50):
And so, when it comes to,
like even if we think about a business
that is leveraging like the gig economy.
Everything is at the person's fingertips,
both the consumer and the employee.
And so, recognizing thatthat is driven by technology,
that's the first step.
The second step, I wouldsay, is that we, again,
hourly employees wantingand needing the same thing
(03:11):
as salaried employees,
that part of that is having this ability
to see a schedule, havea predictable schedule.
I really think that has a huge influence
on people's experiences.
I like to use this example
of, you know, you goto your local Starbucks
and you order a coffee.
And you're ordering a coffeeprobably from a person,
(03:34):
maybe the mobile app, butat the end of the day,
there's a human being behind your order.
And we're not necessarily always thinking
about that human being.
Like, what is Genesis,some arbitrary name, right,
like let's say there'sGenesis the barista down
at my local Starbucksmaking my caffe misto.
She might have a babyshower to go to on Friday,
(03:56):
but if she doesn't havea predictable schedule
or a way to swap shifts or a way to say,
"Hey, I need some flexibility this week,"
then we're asking Genesisto actually give up
a piece of her life.
And so, this is where, for me,
scheduling predictability, flexibility,
it's hugely impactful,
and I do think there aremany technologies out there
that you and I are both aware of
(04:16):
that really drive this forward.
- It completely highlights the idea
of employees wantinginside of their workforces
the same experiences they'regetting as consumers.
- You know, as you were
talking about,- Right.
- You know, apps and engaging,
I was thinking about Instacart.
I'm obsessed with Instacart.(Traci laughing)
It was such a huge helpduring the pandemic,
and I haven't been ableto let go of it since.
(04:36):
(Traci laughing)
But you know, it's, you're right,
there is a person at the end of that app
who's actually doing the work.
And they need flexibility inhow they use that app as well
as to when they're available,
when they're not available,
decisions on whether they'regonna take a job or not
based on tips.
So that completely alignswith what we've been thinking
and talking about when itcomes to the gig economy.
(04:58):
You know, as technologyevolves in this space, though,
I think there's a lot inthe artificial intelligence
and algorithm space thatcan really help influence
the technology that theseemployees are gonna need.
What are some of the trendsthat you're seeing there?
- In terms of trends, I mean,
I think that demand forecasting is huge.
And what I mean by demandforecasting is really
(05:19):
allowing businesses to kindof give up the memorization
that they've needed to master
in order to schedule and create
really this understanding
of what their business drivers look like.
And I can tell you frommy retail experience,
you know, everyone says,
"No one knows a business better
(05:40):
than a store manager," right?
Like, you won't findanyone that knows numbers,
metrics, traffic like a store manager.
But at the end of the day,
a human brain, as far as I'm aware,
I'm not an expert in this,but as far as I'm aware,
the human brain can onlycompute so much, so often.
And so, when we think aboutartificial intelligence,
this is where we can say,
(06:01):
"Hey, store manager, youare really good at this.
But our computer is going to be able
to take all of those demand drivers
that you've had to memorizefor years and years and years
and be that acting force for you
to create a forecast basedon those demand drivers."
So that's really demand forecasting.
And so, if you think about,
you walk into your localTarget or Trader Joe's,
(06:23):
hopefully, there are theperfect number of cashiers.
Well, that's only happening thanks
to artificial intelligence and technology
that enables forecastingand demand drivers
to meet in the middle in thisperfect harmonious place.
And you know, when we thinkabout the trends really,
especially with the gig economy,
(06:44):
this allows managers and employees
to have a harmonious experience.
Managers are often saying,
"I am inundated with havingto manage my employee requests
on top of business needs."
And I'm always asked the question,
"Well, how do you reconcile this?
How do businesses have their needs met
and how do employeeshave their flexibility
(07:06):
and predictability needs met?"
Well, this is how, through technology,
finding those nooks and crannies.
Thanks to artificial intelligence,
which can compute much faster, much better
than the human brain,
we now have resolvedand reconciled the time
that managers are spending,which in my experience,
was more than 10 hours everytime scheduling came up,
(07:28):
you're giving, you're taking that 10 hours
and giving it back to a store manager.
They're able to reinvest that time.
It drives revenue up.
It allows them to spend moretime with their employees,
and therefore, it actuallyimpacts employee experience.
So, I'm really hoping that,
through having these conversations,
including the one that we're having now,
that business leadersin HR and outside of HR
(07:50):
can really see the potential
when we think about technology
impacting employee experience.
- My husband's in chargeof the schedule at his,
he's a fireman.
He's at a fire department.- Oh, cool.
- And I can't tell you howmany hours he spends a week
(laughing) moving thingsaround when people call in.
- It's brutal.
(08:10):
- So just as, I'm sure that'strue for all the managers
listening who have thaton their task list to do.
You know, I think some of the technologies
that we've seen out therethat allow more choice
for the employees, youknow, shift swapping,
flexibility in maybe shiftcoverage or job sharing
or all those kinds of things,
those work really well intandem with the technology
(08:32):
you're talking about,
where the algorithms can kind of know,
yeah, okay, these people can switch,
these people can't, here'swhere it's gonna be higher
and we need more workforce,
here's where we don'tneed as many employees,
so like we can adjustour schedule that way.
How have you seen thesechanges in technology
actually increase employeeengagement and culture?
- So, I have seen it firsthandin my retail experience.
(08:54):
I work at Legion.
I had Legion as a customer,
so I've seen both sides.
And actually, when you thinkabout what technology does
and what I even experienceon the customer side,
if you're focusingtechnology, your tech stack,
whatever it is that a company has,
even if it's one thing,one piece of technology,
(09:15):
and the decision-maker isfocused on the audience,
I will guarantee you thetechnology will work.
And this, I have to stand ona soapbox for a moment here.
I always, always, alwayscall out this point
that when someone is making a decision,
when someone's adding a tool, technology,
(09:35):
or bringing something to an organization,
those decision-makers areusually sitting higher up
on the hierarchical ladder, right?
And I've been there.
But there is nothing worse
than that decision-makerjust making a decision
based on what they knowwithout bringing in
such important and critical stakeholders.
(09:56):
When I was in retail and Iwas rolling out tools myself,
I would always bring in managers,
select store managers, district managers,
regional managers, and even sometimes
like the hourly sales associate.
Because if you're notsolving their problems,
then what problems are you solving for?
Like, you're just looking to add something
(10:17):
onto your resume that you'veaccomplished something?
That does nothing.
So, if you are adding to your tech stack,
if you are expanding thetools that you do have,
I can only implore you as many times
as you're willing tolisten to this podcast
over and over again(Shari laughing)
that you absolutely must think about,
who is your audience?
Do you have any of yourstakeholders in on the conversation,
(10:40):
and are you actuallysolving their challenges
and their problems?
- I can just feel the pain in your voice
from past experiences.(Traci laughing)
And I've been there.- I'm scarred.
- There's been plenty oftimes we've worked on projects
where, you know, youthink you're solving for A
and it's really, you know, B, C, D
that the employees are experiencing
and you've added somethingto their list of things to do
(11:04):
rather than creating- Yes
- Or launching a tool that'sactually gonna help them.
You know, we talk so much in HR about,
you know, people first,employee-centric, experience-based.
Sometimes we just miss the mark with that
when it comes to technology specifically.
- Yes, I, you'll hear this.
If you've ever listened to anyof my episodes on my podcast,
which I do not expect you to,
(11:26):
I will always, I happento often talk about this,
that you know, you look on LinkedIn
or you look on other social channels
and there's such anopportunity for everyone
to have a platform, right?
Which is amazing.
However, a lot of thethings that I'm reading
all the time are like usingthese buzzwords, right,
employee experience,leveraging like people,
(11:49):
let's focus on people and humanity,
but there's never a clear understanding
of like what, why we're doingthis, what we're doing it for,
and how we're going to do it.
Like, the action behind theintention is so important.
And I love that now, more than ever,
people in HR and outside ofHR are talking about this,
because that's part ofthe problem that we've had
(12:10):
leading up until reallythe last few years,
that it was just like HR leaders screaming
from the rooftops, "Weneed to focus on people."
And now, everyone's sayingthat, which is fabulous.
So I certainly am not knocking that.
That, we want to see more of.
But now it's like, okay, well,
we know what the challenge is.
We have to focus on how we solveit truly and authentically,
(12:31):
and this even brings up thewhole like quiet quitting thing,
which I also spend alotta time breaking down.
Like, there's nothingwrong with quiet quitting.
All we're talking about
are people setting boundaries, right?
So why have we made such progress
talking about how people matter
and they're at the coreof every single thing
that we have to do,
and then we're like, "Oh, quiet quitting,
you're setting boundaries,why are you doing that?"
(12:52):
We have to embrace the human condition
and give people the spaceto really be who they are
and, you know, again, solve,truly solve the problems,
not just hitting the buzzwords,
but really breakingdown what they all mean
and how we can actuallydrive those things forward.
- We've talked a lotabout quiet quitting too
and I couldn't agree more(Traci laughing)
(13:13):
that it's not what people think it is.
So, I appreciate you
bringing that up.- Right.
(Traci laughing)
- And you know, thischange in the way we view
about technology, I think a part of it
is definitely driven by GenZ coming into the workforce.
You know, they are gonnaexpect answers, you know?
"Yeah great, I love thatyou're rolling out a new tool.
Why? Why do I need to use it?
(13:34):
I'm already doing"- Right.
- "A, B, and C that'llsolve the problem I have.
Is this gonna help me?"
And there's onus on leadership in HR
to be able to answer those questions now,
like there never was before.
- Totally, and you know what?
This just made me thinkabout something too.
Part of the, like this focuson employee experience,
(13:55):
quiet quitting, likethis whole bubble, right,
that has formed reallycoming out of COVID,
everyone's thought throughwhat their lives mean now,
and to just put it plainly.
When we think about like the way
that business has kind of always operated,
at least in the last, let'ssay, three to four decades,
it's been like churning,churning, churning out results.
(14:16):
And I actually feel like oneof the biggest differences
in the last few years
is that people actuallywanna slow down a little bit.
People want to see a long-term solution
that's authentic, that means something,
that isn't just like,"Okay, we have to do this,
so let's get something on paper."
And I think that Gen Z isreally to credit this to,
because there is this expectation of,
(14:39):
"Well, why am I doing thisand why do I need to do it?
Let's think a little bit more critically
about all of the things
that we've done up until this point."
And I think it's a wonderful thing.
And so, when we think about how business
probably needs to continueto evolve and change
along with the technology thatwe continue to see evolve,
I think that business leaders might need
to become accustomed to movinga little bit more slowly,
(15:00):
thinking through, "Okay, whatis the long-term strategy
and how are we going to get there?"
And part of that, I think,
part of that moving really fast is wanting
a competitive advantage, of course.
Businesses need that.
But I just, I don't know,
I'm feeling a tectonic plate shifting
and I do think that that ispart of the boundary setting,
(15:20):
people don't want to work15 hours a day anymore
for the most part.
I know I'm generalizing, but you know,
hopefully you can get whatI'm trying to say here.
- I think everything that you mention
about the future of work is so important
for everybody to think through,
how that's gonna showup in your organization.
You know, I do think that,
you know, we used to talkabout five-year plans
(15:42):
and now we talk about,you know, two-year plans
because of the pandemic.
But there is some truth in, you know,
thinking slow but movingfast when you have to,
but having that kindof slow thought process
and really thinking about,
what is the experience I'mcreating for my employees
and my customers,
is a little bit different than I think
how we've thought about it in the past.
We haven't necessarilyled with experience.
(16:03):
We've led with programor tactical or process
that we have to accomplish.
So, I think these insightsare really helpful.
I hope our listeners got a lotout of our discussion, Traci,
so thanks for jumping on with me today.
- Of course, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate the opportunity.
(upbeat music)
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider that frees you
(16:24):
from the tasks of todayso you can focus more
on the promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit a topic
or appear as a guest on a future episode,
email us at pctytalks@paylocity.com.
(upbeat music continues)
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