December 9, 2022 • 21 mins
Are you staying ahead of compliance requirements? Let's face it, it's not always easy to keep up with all the latest changes in the law. But if you don't stay on top of things, you could find yourself in big trouble. Join Emily Dickens and host Shari Simpson as they talk about the complexities of the compliance landscape and how to stay informed.
Guest: Emily Dickens, Chief of Staff, Head of Government Affairs and Corporate Secretary, SHRM
A lawyer by training, Emily is a business executive currently working for the world’s largest human resources association. She speaks nationally and globally on issues related to work, workers and the workplace. Emily oversees administrative services, board relations, executive office, global outreach, and government/external affairs. Additionally, she represents the organization on the boards of the World Federation of Personnel Management Associations (WFPMA), the North American Human Resources Management Association, and the National Foundation for Women Legislators (NFWL).
Mentioned in the episode:
- Emily Dickens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-dickens-shrm/
- SHRM Multi-State Comparison Tool: https://www.hrconnection.com/Home/tabid/5246186/language/en-US/Default.aspx
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(bright upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,we'll stay close to the news
and info you need to succeed as an HR pro.
And together we'll explore topics around
HR-thought leadership, compliance,
(00:22):
and real-life HR situationswe face every day.
(upbeat music continues)
Emily, thank you so muchfor taking a few minutes
to sit down with me today.
- You're welcome, Shari,I'm excited about this.
- So you have a reallyinteresting role at SHRM.
Your title is Chief ofStaff, Government Affairs,
(00:42):
and Corporate Secretary for SHRM.
So you have a lot of hatsin the SHRM organization.
- That's what they say.(both laughs)
- So I wanna start withwhat's your perspective
on the current legislative landscape?
And I know that's a big question
but from the work you dowith SHRM for the HR space,
what are the things thatyou're paying attention to?
(01:02):
- (sighs) Okay, so look, I'malways thinking about things
from the perspectiveof the HR professional
that has to comply withall of these great ideas
our elected officialscome up with at the state
and at the federal level.
So that's the first thing.
And then the secondthing is people managers.
We don't talk enough about their role.
So first let's start with the compliance
(01:24):
and then the new laws.
The biggest issue for me isthat the federal government
hasn't gotten a lot done.
And so states have run out of patients
and they're trying to solve those issues.
But the problem is you'resolving it at a state level.
And if I'm a multi-state organization,
(01:46):
I now have to make sure I'm in compliance
with what's going on in Colorado,
what's going on in Virginia,what's going on in California.
And that is creating much more work
for our HR professionals,
and it is creating workfor our people manager.
'Cause imagine a people manager
who's got someone in Colorado,someone in Washington,
you got a team that's remote,
'cause this remote workthing complicates things.
(02:07):
And there were thingsthat you could require
in terms of their time in onestate that you can't require
in terms of their time in another state.
This is one of those things that came up
earlier this year in California
was the prospect of this 32-hour work week
where you get paid for 40hours but you work 32 hours.
And so, of course,everyone wanted us to say,
(02:28):
"Oh, that's a great idea."
So think about it, how do I explain that
to my employees in Virginia
if that had passed in California?
How do I say, "You're working 40 hours,
you're getting paid for 40 hours,
but you can only talk tothe staff in California
32 hours a week?"
So that means you gotta baseyour schedule on their 32 hours
(02:52):
and then the other eight hours of the week
they're doing whatever andthey're getting paid for it.
How do you explain that?
As a people manager and asa HR professional, as a CEO,
how do you talk about that?
So those types of thingsare happening, paid leave.
So how do you explain inone state your people...
Well, you do gotta explain it.
The state legislature here hasjust said that in this state,
(03:12):
paid leave is a requirement,
and then in another state it's not.
And so how do you thinkabout equitableness
and fairness across your organization?
It's hard right now
and you gotta put theblame a little bit...
I put it a little bit onour federal government,
our elected officials in Congress,
but I'm also putting theblame on business too.
'Cause here's the thing,
(03:33):
had we figured out away to handle paid leave
before the state legislaturehad to get involved,
then we probably could have something
that works for everybody.
We've been working for a long time at SHRM
to try to figure out whata framework looks like
that could be passed at the federal level,
that gives enoughflexibility for a company
no matter what their sizeand no matter their industry.
And we're still working on that,
(03:54):
I think that could solve this problem,
but while we're trying to work on that,
the states are comingup with their own ideas,
and you're seeing differentstates do different things.
Actually, I said to my team this year,
"What if we tried to take the best of
what we're seeing at different states
and make that a sample bill,
and then float that acrossthe remaining states?"
(04:14):
So any state who has said,
"We wanna take this upnext year," we say, "Look,
here is a bill that we thinkis a great sample for you
and it has all the things
that would be good for thework and the workplace,
and we're tryna get otherstates to pass the same thing
because that works for your economy.
Because now you're gonnahave multi-state companies
that are like, I don'twanna go to this state now
(04:35):
because they got a whole different rule
on how we manage it."
So state intervention
is the biggest thing that I worry about
when I think about HR professionals,
and because it ties intoall the other issues
that are important whenwe talk about that.
The next one I think about
is workforce development all the time.
As a people manager, as aleader, as chief of staff,
upskilling and reskilling is so critical.
(04:59):
And everything you hear rightnow about work is so negative.
And it's disheartening to me
because I've had such greatexperiences at work, personally
and I want that for other people.
And I don't understand
why it's not like that for other people.
So you're sitting heretrying to be empathetic
and tryna understand what the deal is.
And then you think about people's careers
(05:19):
and what are theyinvesting in their careers?
And I give this talk about,are you investing in you?
And because for yearsI work for the state.
So you know you work for the state.
The state does not havemoney to send you to all...
They're gonna send youwhere they need to send you,
bare minimum,
what the legislature hasapproved for the budget.
So I made a decisionvery early in my career
that I would set aside my personal money
(05:42):
to get trained in whateverit is I had an interest in.
And I think we employeeshave to own their skilling.
Your employer definitelyhas a vested interest
in you being upskilled and reskilled,
but why don't you just decide
what it is you wanna betrained in and do it yourself?
(06:03):
And we saw that for years,people who went to night school,
but you hear all thesestories in the '70s days,
oldest person went to nightschool to better themselves.
They did that on their own;employer wasn't paying for that.
And I'm someone who worked my way
through law school at night.
I worked full time during the day as an EA
and at night I was in law school,
and actually kept that a secret for...
I got almost to the end of the role
(06:23):
before somebody found outI was actually doing that.
And so I just think it's really important
that we talk aboutupskilling and reskilling,
and the fact that
it takes both theemployer and the employee
to address the issues we're gonna see.
I talk about you go into Chop'd,
which is one of my favorite salad places,
and they put a brand new one in Boston
right across from where we stay.
So I was so excited. You walkin, there are four terminals.
(06:45):
You don't see a person atfirst, then you look beyond,
and the people who are making your salads.
That's the only people who are in there
are the salad makers.
You go on that screen and you tap in.
So that means that I don't have a cashier.
But what I do have
is somebody who has tomaintain those machines now.
So that's what I'm thinkingabout the jobs of the future.
I want people to walkin the store and say,
"Okay, yes, this job isn't there anymore,
(07:06):
but there has to be a job that replaced it
because of what the new thing is."
And I want someone to get that idea
and say, "Okay, maybe Ican't be a cashier now,
but maybe I can be the personthat fixes this machine,
that maintains it, thatenters in all the material."
I just think we all have to want
something else for ourselves,and not be 100% dependent
on the employer to do it for you.
Because remember, you takethat knowledge with you
(07:28):
wherever you go.
So that's just a littlebit of what's on my mind.
I didn't even get topeople managers right now.
We treat people in empathyand all that stuff,
but I'm sure we'll get to that.
- Just a couple things, itwas just a couple things
that you're thinking about.
So two things before Iask you the next question.
If you're listening andyou didn't know that SHRM
has a multi-state comparisontool, it's a great resource.
(07:48):
So you definitely shouldjump on the website
and look at that.
And I'll include thelink in the show notes
for those that are interestedin using that tool.
It's has saved me manytimes in my HR career
being able to tap into that.
And when it comes to upskilling,
I've seen this a couple times
and I've talked about iton the podcast before,
but I'm fascinated
about how technology ischanging our workforce.
(08:08):
And one of the things Ikeep talking about is,
if you've seen it,
so McDonald's now willhire remote employees
to virtually take orders.
So you can come up to the drive through
and it's somebody sending at their home,
taking your order virtually,
and that that gets fed to the restaurant.
And I'm fascinated by
the innovation thatMcDonald's has thought of
(08:30):
as to how can we take this role
that we've said is required to be on site,
and has thought differently about it?
- Oh, my gosh, I didn't know that.
'Cause, okay, a happymeal will make me happy.
I'm that person.
So I'm shocked. I didn'tknow they were doing that.
This also makes me a little sad.
There was a time when McDonald's,
you knew where people were in their life.
You knew if you went in the morning time,
(08:50):
you were gonna see thatperson that's 65 or older,
who retired but want to beable to do something, right?
- Yep.- And you do in the afternoon,
you're gonna run into your classmates
with the bad acne that...
'Cause they said the oil andMcDonald's was bad for you.
So you knew it wasgonna be these teenagers
and young college peoplethere, and it's just change.
And you also knew
that those people who werethere in the afternoon
had the opportunity to goto like Mickey D College.
(09:12):
- Hamburger you.- Hamburger you.
And so you, everyone knew thatthere was a path for them.
And that something changed,I don't know where it was,
and so now that's gone.
And now that you may not see anybody
when you go up to the drivethrough, it's just like, wow-
- That's different.- That's so different.
- It is, it's different.
They did something a couple years ago,
(09:33):
and not to get off on a McDonald'stangent, but they did...
I think, this was 2019 Iwas talking about this.
So pre-pandemic they weredoing where you could
apply to a McDonald'srole via Amazon Alexa.
You could just talk to Alexa
and put your applicationin for McDonald's.
So just an organization
that's really thinking differently about
how they manage a remoteor hybrid workforce.
(09:55):
So I find it fascinating.- Wow!
I follow their CEO on Instagram.
I found him very interesting
'cause it was the whole thingwith how he got to that job.
So that's interesting
that he's really moved in that direction.
- Yeah, we talked aboutcompliance and state by state.
I think that's something that's
difficult for HR professionalsand really CHROs right now,
(10:17):
I have a lot of compassionfor them, is managing
and staying ahead of all thislegislation that comes out.
Like when Colorado said,
"Hey, you gotta postthe salary information."
Well, if you're amulti-state organization,
now you are thinking about your equity
and how you're gonna post.
Are you gonna post it in every state?
Is it the same for every state?All that different stuff.
(10:39):
And then Roe v. Wade came out.
And some organizations added new benefits,
some just stated benefits, somewent a different direction.
But that all reallyfell on the hands of HR
and employment lawyers, let'sbe honest, to figure that out.
How do we stay abreast of all this stuff
and in a way where we'reserving our businesses,
but also just being really compassionate
(11:01):
with where our employees are at?
- You gotta know your people.
So I started this conversationalways talking about culture.
I think some people laugh at us now
when we're saying yougotta lead with culture,
but if you know your cultureand if you know your people,
you'll know whether anissue is important to them,
and you'll get ahead of those issues.
So if you are an organization
where 70% of your peoplein your organization
(11:21):
are past childbearing age,
this you know is not reallythat much of an issue for you.
What do you do?
You do a check of what yourhealthcare, what you providing,
your current healthcare benefits,you do a temperature check
and see if there's anyonewho lately has intimated
that they're trying to have a child,
you just look at it from...
And then you look at it holistically.
(11:42):
Don't look at it just at thepoint of what DOPS deals with.
You look at the wholereproductive spectrum,
and you say, "What are otherneeds that we may have?"
But you have to know your people
and the organization's culture.
If you are in small town Tennessee,
and there's a church on every corner,
and you see your staff in that church,
(12:04):
and they're very open aboutwhat their beliefs are,
you know who your people are,
then you know how far you can go
in terms of announcing what you're doing.
'Cause you may decide
that you do want toproactively do some things
like add money to the HSAor do the travel benefit.
You can quietly do thatwithout announcing it,
(12:25):
and those people might appreciate it more,
than you going out and doinga big front page article about
announcing that ourcompany's gonna do this.
And what made me a little unhappy
about how this whole thing unfolded
in terms of what companies weredoing, a very large company
who people are dependent on,got thousands of employees
(12:46):
in multiple states and things like that,
they can go out and make thesehuge splash announcements.
My small company, 25 & Under,that is just very happy
that they've gotten backto pre-pandemic levels
in terms of their income.
Where does that leave them
in terms of retaining theirtalent when you gotta compete
with these splash announcementsfrom these large companies?
(13:08):
And so it's so important thatyou know those 25 employees
and what's important tothem, and you communicate.
So that's when you have...
We have our little CEO updates,
we have star coffees quarterly,
but every once and again our CEO will say,
"I wanna update you all onwhat's going on in the world
and how it's impacting our organization."
That's when you really havethat heart to heart with them
and say, "Here, this is what we make,
(13:31):
this is what I can affordto put toward the benefits.
So what is it that youall care the most about?
Is it that you want meto pay student loans?
Do you want me to giveyou the 52/50 a year back
to cover student loans or other ways
or tuition reimbursement?"
What are those things?
What is important to yourpeople? And then you provide it.
(13:53):
If you lead and you start there...
And I know there are peoplewho have to worry about
what's important to yourcustomer, but let me tell you,
ultimately, your people
are the reason that youretain your customers,
and if they're happy andsatisfied, you start with them.
So everybody says everythingstarts at home, start at home.
And don't think you have to do something
because someone else is doing it,
do what's best for your people.
- Culture is so important.- It is.
(14:14):
- There's so much that'swrapped into culture
and just authenticity of culture.
There's that, hey, whatwe think culture is
and what your actual culture is.
- Oh, yeah.- So I appreciate
that you started withget to know your people.
Because you're right, inthose examples you gave,
your answer to the dobs thingcould be very different.
- It could, and it's so muchpressure, I feel so bad.
(14:36):
Middle and small-sizebusiness' probably like,
don't feel bad for me, Emily.
But I feel 'cause I'm like,look, if I gotta compare
and I'm competing for talent here,
and I'm in the same town with company A,
and they're out here saying,
"We're gonna do this, this, and that,"
I can't pay for that marketing.
No one's paying attention to me.
So that's why it's gonna be so important
that personalize as much as you can
that experience for your employees
(14:58):
and find out what's important to them.
- As you've worked withdifferent organizations
and you've spent some timein the political space,
how do we as HR professionalssupport employees
without stepping intothat political debate
on benefits or practices that we have?
- Again, it goes back to your culture,
(15:19):
what works for the culture?
Here's what we can afford,
here's what we do for you currently.
Where are the gaps?
And it's not about the politicsof who's gonna support,
who isn't going to support?
If I've got a workplace
and 70% of the peopleare childbearing age,
first of all have this discussionwith all of the employees.
Don't just think
(15:39):
you're gonna call thewomen employees together
and say, "What do you thinkabout reproductive health?"
Hey, we don't get therewithout a guy half the time?
So if you think about it,
I want everyone in the organization
because this even goes back tothings like paternity leave.
And so it's part of thatwhole reproductive circle,
I can be saying maybe Iwanna put more funds into X
to cover travel costs relatedto termination of pregnancies,
(16:03):
but my manner's saying,
"Well, for those of uswho are about to be dads,
I need to be able to help myspouse and be there for them.
And so can you add paternityleave as an option?"
And maybe you just makeit paid leave for a child.
Maybe you don't have leavefor people who adopt children.
So here's an opportunityto be more holistic
(16:25):
with little cost if you think about it.
'Cause if you alreadyhad some form of leave,
and you just incorporatingit under new rating
those things that will beimportant to your workforce.
So just doing the whole circle.
This is the bestopportunity for you to say,
"That whole reproductive circle
we know is important toall of you men, women,
and anyone else in the workplace,
(16:46):
where it's important to them,
and let's deal with it there."
I think that's the type ofthing that we've gotta do.
And you're staying out of the political.
Now, look, I know there are some people...
Think about it, if you're an entrepreneur,
this is your company that you founded.
You wanna say what you wanna say
'cause you're the onethat made the sacrifices
so that you can build thisbusiness, and that makes sense.
Again, I say to employees,"You have a choice."
(17:07):
You don't have to stay there.
The good thing about what's going on now
before we go deep into this recession
everybody keep talking about,
that there is a war for talent.
And so at some point if youfeel that that doesn't align
with the business goals andwhat the business talks about,
don't align with yourpersonal perspective.
The great thing is you don't have to stay,
(17:27):
and you can find a placethat aligns better with you.
And I think do that.
I dunno why we think that's bad to say,
'cause even when you havean employer who says,
"You all, if this doesn'twork for you, it's okay,"
people don't trust that.
And I know people can beretaliatory at some point,
but believe in you.
This again goes back to my thing about
upskilling and reskilling.
(17:48):
When you own that processof how you learn new things
and you're not dependent on someone else
when you're earning it on your own,
you are like, look, I can roll out here,
and I can go do something else
in a place that's gonna be good for me.
- There's so much opportunityout there right now,
when you talk about the war for talent,
from the employer perspective,
but as an employee, as a worker,
(18:09):
man, this guy's really the limit.
You can do so much now, andespecially with side hustles,
and gig economy, and all that stuff,
which that could be awhole nother podcast.
- That's a whole other issue right there.
Look, what they talking about these people
who got the moonlighters,that's the new thing.
So I'm like, I dunnohow you doing three jobs
when I got one that keeps megoing from sun up to sun down,
but that's a whole other story.
- That's right.
So as I wrap up my discussion with you,
(18:30):
what's one thing in theSHRM space in your role
that you're most excited about
or research that you're doing,
or just as you lookforward in this landscape,
what gets you excited?
- So lemme tell you,SHRM turns 75 next year.
I don't think you that, yeah.- Wow!
- So we are doing a whole lot.
We're pulling history andwe're learning things.
(18:51):
But the story I tell
when I go and do my Washingtonupdates at Chapters is,
SHRM was founded in Berea, Ohio.
So we ended up here in theAlexandria area, in 1984
because HR professionals,
and at that point theywere called the personnel,
got tired of not havinga seat at the table
(19:13):
as it related to federalissues about the workforce.
So these huge pieces of laborlegislation were being passed
and no one was asking thepersonnel man about it.
So they said, "You know what?
We're gonna pull up stakes,and we're gonna drive,
and we're gonna find some place,
and we're gonna be near DC."
So that's how we ended up in Alexandria.
And then five years laterthe name changes, in 1989,
to SHRM, Society forHuman Resource Management.
(19:34):
And so I think there are so many things
we can learn about our journeyover the last 75 years.
And I'm most excited about what we can do
in the next 25 yearsleading to Centennial.
So next year's gonnabe a year of reflection
and discovery about, for so many people
who've just been SHRmembers and not realize
all the great thingswe've done over 75 years
(19:55):
to really influence the world of work.
And then it's a time forus to be really proactive
and think, how can we change lives
so that 25 years fromnow, someone can say,
"In a century, in one centurySHRM has done this thing,
HR professionals have done these things,"
and we are changing lives every day.
So that's what I'm mostlooking forward to.
(20:16):
- How excited. I'm gettinggoosebumps listening to you talk.
I'm excited too.
So every time I get a chance
to talk to some SHRM leadership,
I walk away with just being invigorated
in the profession that I'm in,
and excited that I workwhere I work and what I do.
So thanks for taking a few minutes
of your data chat with me.- Oh, my gosh, it's an honor,
it's always an honor totalk about what we're doing.
I gotta get a shout outto our ultimate leader
(20:37):
who's not here with us,Johnny C. Taylor Jr.
Because you gotta have aleader that empowers all of us
to do what we need to do every day.
And that's why we're soexcited. He's excited.
He talked about the 75thanniversary one more time.
But it's on my mind
because he knows thatwe've made such an impact
and that there's even more we can do.
- Absolutely. Thanks again.
- Thank you.(bright mellow music)
(20:58):
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task of today
so you can focus more onthe promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit a topic
or appear as a guest on a future episode
email us at pcytalks@paylocity.com.
(bright music continues)
(bright upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,we'll stay close to the news
and info you need to succeed as an HR pro.
And together we'll explore topics around
HR-thought leadership, compliance,
(00:22):
and real-life HR situationswe face every day.
(upbeat music continues)
Emily, thank you so muchfor taking a few minutes
to sit down with me today.
- You're welcome, Shari,I'm excited about this.
- So you have a reallyinteresting role at SHRM.
Your title is Chief ofStaff, Government Affairs,
(00:42):
and Corporate Secretary for SHRM.
So you have a lot of hatsin the SHRM organization.
- That's what they say.(both laughs)
- So I wanna start withwhat's your perspective
on the current legislative landscape?
And I know that's a big question
but from the work you dowith SHRM for the HR space,
what are the things thatyou're paying attention to?
(01:02):
- (sighs) Okay, so look, I'malways thinking about things
from the perspectiveof the HR professional
that has to comply withall of these great ideas
our elected officialscome up with at the state
and at the federal level.
So that's the first thing.
And then the secondthing is people managers.
We don't talk enough about their role.
So first let's start with the compliance
(01:24):
and then the new laws.
The biggest issue for me isthat the federal government
hasn't gotten a lot done.
And so states have run out of patients
and they're trying to solve those issues.
But the problem is you'resolving it at a state level.
And if I'm a multi-state organization,
(01:46):
I now have to make sure I'm in compliance
with what's going on in Colorado,
what's going on in Virginia,what's going on in California.
And that is creating much more work
for our HR professionals,
and it is creating workfor our people manager.
'Cause imagine a people manager
who's got someone in Colorado,someone in Washington,
you got a team that's remote,
'cause this remote workthing complicates things.
(02:07):
And there were thingsthat you could require
in terms of their time in onestate that you can't require
in terms of their time in another state.
This is one of those things that came up
earlier this year in California
was the prospect of this 32-hour work week
where you get paid for 40hours but you work 32 hours.
And so, of course,everyone wanted us to say,
(02:28):
"Oh, that's a great idea."
So think about it, how do I explain that
to my employees in Virginia
if that had passed in California?
How do I say, "You're working 40 hours,
you're getting paid for 40 hours,
but you can only talk tothe staff in California
32 hours a week?"
So that means you gotta baseyour schedule on their 32 hours
(02:52):
and then the other eight hours of the week
they're doing whatever andthey're getting paid for it.
How do you explain that?
As a people manager and asa HR professional, as a CEO,
how do you talk about that?
So those types of thingsare happening, paid leave.
So how do you explain inone state your people...
Well, you do gotta explain it.
The state legislature here hasjust said that in this state,
(03:12):
paid leave is a requirement,
and then in another state it's not.
And so how do you thinkabout equitableness
and fairness across your organization?
It's hard right now
and you gotta put theblame a little bit...
I put it a little bit onour federal government,
our elected officials in Congress,
but I'm also putting theblame on business too.
'Cause here's the thing,
(03:33):
had we figured out away to handle paid leave
before the state legislaturehad to get involved,
then we probably could have something
that works for everybody.
We've been working for a long time at SHRM
to try to figure out whata framework looks like
that could be passed at the federal level,
that gives enoughflexibility for a company
no matter what their sizeand no matter their industry.
And we're still working on that,
(03:54):
I think that could solve this problem,
but while we're trying to work on that,
the states are comingup with their own ideas,
and you're seeing differentstates do different things.
Actually, I said to my team this year,
"What if we tried to take the best of
what we're seeing at different states
and make that a sample bill,
and then float that acrossthe remaining states?"
(04:14):
So any state who has said,
"We wanna take this upnext year," we say, "Look,
here is a bill that we thinkis a great sample for you
and it has all the things
that would be good for thework and the workplace,
and we're tryna get otherstates to pass the same thing
because that works for your economy.
Because now you're gonnahave multi-state companies
that are like, I don'twanna go to this state now
(04:35):
because they got a whole different rule
on how we manage it."
So state intervention
is the biggest thing that I worry about
when I think about HR professionals,
and because it ties intoall the other issues
that are important whenwe talk about that.
The next one I think about
is workforce development all the time.
As a people manager, as aleader, as chief of staff,
upskilling and reskilling is so critical.
(04:59):
And everything you hear rightnow about work is so negative.
And it's disheartening to me
because I've had such greatexperiences at work, personally
and I want that for other people.
And I don't understand
why it's not like that for other people.
So you're sitting heretrying to be empathetic
and tryna understand what the deal is.
And then you think about people's careers
(05:19):
and what are theyinvesting in their careers?
And I give this talk about,are you investing in you?
And because for yearsI work for the state.
So you know you work for the state.
The state does not havemoney to send you to all...
They're gonna send youwhere they need to send you,
bare minimum,
what the legislature hasapproved for the budget.
So I made a decisionvery early in my career
that I would set aside my personal money
(05:42):
to get trained in whateverit is I had an interest in.
And I think we employeeshave to own their skilling.
Your employer definitelyhas a vested interest
in you being upskilled and reskilled,
but why don't you just decide
what it is you wanna betrained in and do it yourself?
(06:03):
And we saw that for years,people who went to night school,
but you hear all thesestories in the '70s days,
oldest person went to nightschool to better themselves.
They did that on their own;employer wasn't paying for that.
And I'm someone who worked my way
through law school at night.
I worked full time during the day as an EA
and at night I was in law school,
and actually kept that a secret for...
I got almost to the end of the role
(06:23):
before somebody found outI was actually doing that.
And so I just think it's really important
that we talk aboutupskilling and reskilling,
and the fact that
it takes both theemployer and the employee
to address the issues we're gonna see.
I talk about you go into Chop'd,
which is one of my favorite salad places,
and they put a brand new one in Boston
right across from where we stay.
So I was so excited. You walkin, there are four terminals.
(06:45):
You don't see a person atfirst, then you look beyond,
and the people who are making your salads.
That's the only people who are in there
are the salad makers.
You go on that screen and you tap in.
So that means that I don't have a cashier.
But what I do have
is somebody who has tomaintain those machines now.
So that's what I'm thinkingabout the jobs of the future.
I want people to walkin the store and say,
"Okay, yes, this job isn't there anymore,
(07:06):
but there has to be a job that replaced it
because of what the new thing is."
And I want someone to get that idea
and say, "Okay, maybe Ican't be a cashier now,
but maybe I can be the personthat fixes this machine,
that maintains it, thatenters in all the material."
I just think we all have to want
something else for ourselves,and not be 100% dependent
on the employer to do it for you.
Because remember, you takethat knowledge with you
(07:28):
wherever you go.
So that's just a littlebit of what's on my mind.
I didn't even get topeople managers right now.
We treat people in empathyand all that stuff,
but I'm sure we'll get to that.
- Just a couple things, itwas just a couple things
that you're thinking about.
So two things before Iask you the next question.
If you're listening andyou didn't know that SHRM
has a multi-state comparisontool, it's a great resource.
(07:48):
So you definitely shouldjump on the website
and look at that.
And I'll include thelink in the show notes
for those that are interestedin using that tool.
It's has saved me manytimes in my HR career
being able to tap into that.
And when it comes to upskilling,
I've seen this a couple times
and I've talked about iton the podcast before,
but I'm fascinated
about how technology ischanging our workforce.
(08:08):
And one of the things Ikeep talking about is,
if you've seen it,
so McDonald's now willhire remote employees
to virtually take orders.
So you can come up to the drive through
and it's somebody sending at their home,
taking your order virtually,
and that that gets fed to the restaurant.
And I'm fascinated by
the innovation thatMcDonald's has thought of
(08:30):
as to how can we take this role
that we've said is required to be on site,
and has thought differently about it?
- Oh, my gosh, I didn't know that.
'Cause, okay, a happymeal will make me happy.
I'm that person.
So I'm shocked. I didn'tknow they were doing that.
This also makes me a little sad.
There was a time when McDonald's,
you knew where people were in their life.
You knew if you went in the morning time,
(08:50):
you were gonna see thatperson that's 65 or older,
who retired but want to beable to do something, right?
- Yep.- And you do in the afternoon,
you're gonna run into your classmates
with the bad acne that...
'Cause they said the oil andMcDonald's was bad for you.
So you knew it wasgonna be these teenagers
and young college peoplethere, and it's just change.
And you also knew
that those people who werethere in the afternoon
had the opportunity to goto like Mickey D College.
(09:12):
- Hamburger you.- Hamburger you.
And so you, everyone knew thatthere was a path for them.
And that something changed,I don't know where it was,
and so now that's gone.
And now that you may not see anybody
when you go up to the drivethrough, it's just like, wow-
- That's different.- That's so different.
- It is, it's different.
They did something a couple years ago,
(09:33):
and not to get off on a McDonald'stangent, but they did...
I think, this was 2019 Iwas talking about this.
So pre-pandemic they weredoing where you could
apply to a McDonald'srole via Amazon Alexa.
You could just talk to Alexa
and put your applicationin for McDonald's.
So just an organization
that's really thinking differently about
how they manage a remoteor hybrid workforce.
(09:55):
So I find it fascinating.- Wow!
I follow their CEO on Instagram.
I found him very interesting
'cause it was the whole thingwith how he got to that job.
So that's interesting
that he's really moved in that direction.
- Yeah, we talked aboutcompliance and state by state.
I think that's something that's
difficult for HR professionalsand really CHROs right now,
(10:17):
I have a lot of compassionfor them, is managing
and staying ahead of all thislegislation that comes out.
Like when Colorado said,
"Hey, you gotta postthe salary information."
Well, if you're amulti-state organization,
now you are thinking about your equity
and how you're gonna post.
Are you gonna post it in every state?
Is it the same for every state?All that different stuff.
(10:39):
And then Roe v. Wade came out.
And some organizations added new benefits,
some just stated benefits, somewent a different direction.
But that all reallyfell on the hands of HR
and employment lawyers, let'sbe honest, to figure that out.
How do we stay abreast of all this stuff
and in a way where we'reserving our businesses,
but also just being really compassionate
(11:01):
with where our employees are at?
- You gotta know your people.
So I started this conversationalways talking about culture.
I think some people laugh at us now
when we're saying yougotta lead with culture,
but if you know your cultureand if you know your people,
you'll know whether anissue is important to them,
and you'll get ahead of those issues.
So if you are an organization
where 70% of your peoplein your organization
(11:21):
are past childbearing age,
this you know is not reallythat much of an issue for you.
What do you do?
You do a check of what yourhealthcare, what you providing,
your current healthcare benefits,you do a temperature check
and see if there's anyonewho lately has intimated
that they're trying to have a child,
you just look at it from...
And then you look at it holistically.
(11:42):
Don't look at it just at thepoint of what DOPS deals with.
You look at the wholereproductive spectrum,
and you say, "What are otherneeds that we may have?"
But you have to know your people
and the organization's culture.
If you are in small town Tennessee,
and there's a church on every corner,
and you see your staff in that church,
(12:04):
and they're very open aboutwhat their beliefs are,
you know who your people are,
then you know how far you can go
in terms of announcing what you're doing.
'Cause you may decide
that you do want toproactively do some things
like add money to the HSAor do the travel benefit.
You can quietly do thatwithout announcing it,
(12:25):
and those people might appreciate it more,
than you going out and doinga big front page article about
announcing that ourcompany's gonna do this.
And what made me a little unhappy
about how this whole thing unfolded
in terms of what companies weredoing, a very large company
who people are dependent on,got thousands of employees
(12:46):
in multiple states and things like that,
they can go out and make thesehuge splash announcements.
My small company, 25 & Under,that is just very happy
that they've gotten backto pre-pandemic levels
in terms of their income.
Where does that leave them
in terms of retaining theirtalent when you gotta compete
with these splash announcementsfrom these large companies?
(13:08):
And so it's so important thatyou know those 25 employees
and what's important tothem, and you communicate.
So that's when you have...
We have our little CEO updates,
we have star coffees quarterly,
but every once and again our CEO will say,
"I wanna update you all onwhat's going on in the world
and how it's impacting our organization."
That's when you really havethat heart to heart with them
and say, "Here, this is what we make,
(13:31):
this is what I can affordto put toward the benefits.
So what is it that youall care the most about?
Is it that you want meto pay student loans?
Do you want me to giveyou the 52/50 a year back
to cover student loans or other ways
or tuition reimbursement?"
What are those things?
What is important to yourpeople? And then you provide it.
(13:53):
If you lead and you start there...
And I know there are peoplewho have to worry about
what's important to yourcustomer, but let me tell you,
ultimately, your people
are the reason that youretain your customers,
and if they're happy andsatisfied, you start with them.
So everybody says everythingstarts at home, start at home.
And don't think you have to do something
because someone else is doing it,
do what's best for your people.
- Culture is so important.- It is.
(14:14):
- There's so much that'swrapped into culture
and just authenticity of culture.
There's that, hey, whatwe think culture is
and what your actual culture is.
- Oh, yeah.- So I appreciate
that you started withget to know your people.
Because you're right, inthose examples you gave,
your answer to the dobs thingcould be very different.
- It could, and it's so muchpressure, I feel so bad.
(14:36):
Middle and small-sizebusiness' probably like,
don't feel bad for me, Emily.
But I feel 'cause I'm like,look, if I gotta compare
and I'm competing for talent here,
and I'm in the same town with company A,
and they're out here saying,
"We're gonna do this, this, and that,"
I can't pay for that marketing.
No one's paying attention to me.
So that's why it's gonna be so important
that personalize as much as you can
that experience for your employees
(14:58):
and find out what's important to them.
- As you've worked withdifferent organizations
and you've spent some timein the political space,
how do we as HR professionalssupport employees
without stepping intothat political debate
on benefits or practices that we have?
- Again, it goes back to your culture,
(15:19):
what works for the culture?
Here's what we can afford,
here's what we do for you currently.
Where are the gaps?
And it's not about the politicsof who's gonna support,
who isn't going to support?
If I've got a workplace
and 70% of the peopleare childbearing age,
first of all have this discussionwith all of the employees.
Don't just think
(15:39):
you're gonna call thewomen employees together
and say, "What do you thinkabout reproductive health?"
Hey, we don't get therewithout a guy half the time?
So if you think about it,
I want everyone in the organization
because this even goes back tothings like paternity leave.
And so it's part of thatwhole reproductive circle,
I can be saying maybe Iwanna put more funds into X
to cover travel costs relatedto termination of pregnancies,
(16:03):
but my manner's saying,
"Well, for those of uswho are about to be dads,
I need to be able to help myspouse and be there for them.
And so can you add paternityleave as an option?"
And maybe you just makeit paid leave for a child.
Maybe you don't have leavefor people who adopt children.
So here's an opportunityto be more holistic
(16:25):
with little cost if you think about it.
'Cause if you alreadyhad some form of leave,
and you just incorporatingit under new rating
those things that will beimportant to your workforce.
So just doing the whole circle.
This is the bestopportunity for you to say,
"That whole reproductive circle
we know is important toall of you men, women,
and anyone else in the workplace,
(16:46):
where it's important to them,
and let's deal with it there."
I think that's the type ofthing that we've gotta do.
And you're staying out of the political.
Now, look, I know there are some people...
Think about it, if you're an entrepreneur,
this is your company that you founded.
You wanna say what you wanna say
'cause you're the onethat made the sacrifices
so that you can build thisbusiness, and that makes sense.
Again, I say to employees,"You have a choice."
(17:07):
You don't have to stay there.
The good thing about what's going on now
before we go deep into this recession
everybody keep talking about,
that there is a war for talent.
And so at some point if youfeel that that doesn't align
with the business goals andwhat the business talks about,
don't align with yourpersonal perspective.
The great thing is you don't have to stay,
(17:27):
and you can find a placethat aligns better with you.
And I think do that.
I dunno why we think that's bad to say,
'cause even when you havean employer who says,
"You all, if this doesn'twork for you, it's okay,"
people don't trust that.
And I know people can beretaliatory at some point,
but believe in you.
This again goes back to my thing about
upskilling and reskilling.
(17:48):
When you own that processof how you learn new things
and you're not dependent on someone else
when you're earning it on your own,
you are like, look, I can roll out here,
and I can go do something else
in a place that's gonna be good for me.
- There's so much opportunityout there right now,
when you talk about the war for talent,
from the employer perspective,
but as an employee, as a worker,
(18:09):
man, this guy's really the limit.
You can do so much now, andespecially with side hustles,
and gig economy, and all that stuff,
which that could be awhole nother podcast.
- That's a whole other issue right there.
Look, what they talking about these people
who got the moonlighters,that's the new thing.
So I'm like, I dunnohow you doing three jobs
when I got one that keeps megoing from sun up to sun down,
but that's a whole other story.
- That's right.
So as I wrap up my discussion with you,
(18:30):
what's one thing in theSHRM space in your role
that you're most excited about
or research that you're doing,
or just as you lookforward in this landscape,
what gets you excited?
- So lemme tell you,SHRM turns 75 next year.
I don't think you that, yeah.- Wow!
- So we are doing a whole lot.
We're pulling history andwe're learning things.
(18:51):
But the story I tell
when I go and do my Washingtonupdates at Chapters is,
SHRM was founded in Berea, Ohio.
So we ended up here in theAlexandria area, in 1984
because HR professionals,
and at that point theywere called the personnel,
got tired of not havinga seat at the table
(19:13):
as it related to federalissues about the workforce.
So these huge pieces of laborlegislation were being passed
and no one was asking thepersonnel man about it.
So they said, "You know what?
We're gonna pull up stakes,and we're gonna drive,
and we're gonna find some place,
and we're gonna be near DC."
So that's how we ended up in Alexandria.
And then five years laterthe name changes, in 1989,
to SHRM, Society forHuman Resource Management.
(19:34):
And so I think there are so many things
we can learn about our journeyover the last 75 years.
And I'm most excited about what we can do
in the next 25 yearsleading to Centennial.
So next year's gonnabe a year of reflection
and discovery about, for so many people
who've just been SHRmembers and not realize
all the great thingswe've done over 75 years
(19:55):
to really influence the world of work.
And then it's a time forus to be really proactive
and think, how can we change lives
so that 25 years fromnow, someone can say,
"In a century, in one centurySHRM has done this thing,
HR professionals have done these things,"
and we are changing lives every day.
So that's what I'm mostlooking forward to.
(20:16):
- How excited. I'm gettinggoosebumps listening to you talk.
I'm excited too.
So every time I get a chance
to talk to some SHRM leadership,
I walk away with just being invigorated
in the profession that I'm in,
and excited that I workwhere I work and what I do.
So thanks for taking a few minutes
of your data chat with me.- Oh, my gosh, it's an honor,
it's always an honor totalk about what we're doing.
I gotta get a shout outto our ultimate leader
(20:37):
who's not here with us,Johnny C. Taylor Jr.
Because you gotta have aleader that empowers all of us
to do what we need to do every day.
And that's why we're soexcited. He's excited.
He talked about the 75thanniversary one more time.
But it's on my mind
because he knows thatwe've made such an impact
and that there's even more we can do.
- Absolutely. Thanks again.
- Thank you.(bright mellow music)
(20:58):
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity,
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task of today
so you can focus more onthe promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit a topic
or appear as a guest on a future episode
email us at pcytalks@paylocity.com.
(bright music continues)
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