March 2, 2023 • 33 mins
In this penultimate episode, host Shari Simpson and Corinne Tirone tackle the complex world of HR compliance and delve into the most pressing issues facing today's organizations. They share their insights on how companies can ensure compliance with legal requirements while promoting employee well-being and inclusivity. Exploring the challenges of managing mental health in the workplace, navigating remote work policies, implementing effective paid parental leave programs, and promoting diversity and inclusion initiatives. Tune in for practical tips and strategies to help your organization stay compliant and support your workforce's overall health and success.
Guest(s): Corinne Tirone, Director of Government Relations, Paylocity
Corinne Tirone is the Director of Government Relations here at Paylocity. Corinne is an attorney with over 12 years of experience in legal research and payroll and HR compliance. Her focus at Paylocity is on monitoring the legislative landscape at the federal, state, and local levels to help inform the organization's development projects, compliance strategy, and risk mitigation plans. In addition, Corinne serves on the board of the National Payroll Reporting Consortium and leverages strong relationships with agencies and industry groups to stay informed of regulatory trends and changing compliance requirements.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
(upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,
we'll stay close to thenews and info you need
to succeed as an HR pro.
And together, we'll explore topics
around HR thought leadership, compliance,
and real life HR situationswe face every day.
(00:28):
- Joining me today on thepodcast is Corinne Tirone.
She is somebody who has been with me
since the very beginning.
She is the director ofgovernment relations
here at Paylocity
and has a really interestingperspective on compliance,
both internally on the thingsthat we deal with here,
as well as externallyand making sure that you,
as HR practitioners and business leaders,
(00:50):
are kept up to speed.
So Corinne,
thanks for taking a fewminutes to chat with me.
- Oh, I'm happy to be here, Shari.
And I gotta tell you,it's an honor and humbling
to be the last "PCTY Talks" episode guest.
I was thinking back towhen we started this
and how many amazing conversationsyou've had since then.
So I'm very excited to be the bookend
(01:12):
because I feel like you'vegot a really great pool
to draw from.
- And if you're listeningand you were just shocked
by what Corinne had to share, this indeed,
yes, is our last episode of "PCTY Talks,"
but it is not the end for us.
There is something new coming,so make sure that you listen
to the commercial at the very end
to let you know what is coming next
(01:34):
and our next evolution.
So it was important, Corinne,that you'd be my bookend
because you were here atthe very, very beginning.
So I appreciate that.
You know, when I think over the last
five seasons of the podcast,
let alone the last couple years for HR,
our function has always been important.
But during COVID itwas elevated to a level
(01:57):
that it should have alwaysbeen at, let's be honest,
but in a way where leaders started to see
what HR could bring to thetable in a different way
and really spotlight theimportant conversations
that we need to have
and how we can collaboratewith other leaders
and the things that they wanna accomplish.
So we've seen that shift in our roles,
(02:17):
but we've also seen a shift
in what employees expectout of organizations.
You know, we've talked alot in this post pandemic,
new endemic space about whatthat means as a function of HR
and what we're trying to accomplish.
And you've seen that as wetalk about the future of work
and employee experienceand employee engagement
and the gig economy andall those different things.
(02:38):
So as I think about thefuture for practitioners,
I'm curious of your perspective
in the space that you sit in,
what are the thingsthat we're gonna have to
continuously think about
or new issues that you see coming up
that we need to makesure we're abreast of?
- You know, that's agreat question, Shari.
And I think that the waythat I think about this
(03:00):
is kind of, as you said,
a continuation of whereHR should have always been
and some of the concernsthat teams like yours
have been working through sincethey started in this field.
It's really a marriage oflaw and practice, right?
So you have to be thinkingabout the way that the landscape
is evolving in terms of the legislation
(03:20):
and any regulations that are coming out,
as well as how your workforce individually
can manage those new requirements
and keep the culture thatyou're trying to build alive.
I think that as we kind of look forward,
the biggest issues thatwe're going to be seeing
are things like compliance with the new,
with a largely remote workforce.
(03:41):
This isn't exactly a new issue.
This is something that, as you mentioned,
this is a huge shiftduring the COVID times.
Early on,
many companies had to switchto working largely remotely.
But since then, there'sbeen quite an evolution
in terms of how many companiesare allowing that to continue
or are offering some sort of hybrid model.
(04:02):
And there are a varietyof different policy
or compliance struggles thatmight go along with that
or challenges that organizations need to
figure out how to manage.
Kind of similarly, you know,there's a big push towards
flexibility all around,
not just in terms of where you're working,
but maybe when you'reworking, how you're working,
as well as worker wellbeing.
(04:23):
You know, those things areall kind of tied together.
The next issue that I think is out there
that we all need to be thinking about
is how data drives our business
and how we make decisions thatare grounded in information.
We have more data thanwe've ever had, right?
But how we use that, how we leverage that,
that's going to be a hugepart of the HR practice
(04:45):
in coming years.
As well as how we thinkabout DEI initiatives
and how that builds intoour policy and our cultures
as an organization.
- I couldn't agree more with your list.
And each one of those,
I think I wanna dive into a little bit
'cause I think there's just unique nuances
that we have to consider.
(05:05):
So let's start with remote work.
It's interesting to see now,we're at the beginning of 2023,
what organizations areembracing remote work
and embracing this new way ofthinking about their workforce
and those that are franklystruggling with it.
You know, when I read aninteresting article the other day
that talked about a leader,
(05:26):
and I'm not gonna callout the leader on purpose,
but they talked about that remote work
doesn't work for businessesunless maybe for women.
And it was such a
frustrating comment 'cause in one way,
I felt like the leader got it.
Like, hey, we're balancingso much, we need flexibility,
(05:47):
but then totally miss the mark
and said that it's only women.
You know, it's like, okay.
Well, you're halfway there, you know?
And so when you think about the things
that you're thinking aboutfrom a compliance standpoint
when it comes to remote work,
tax requirements, workingin multiple states,
working hours,
how you deal with comraderyand developing culture
(06:09):
across those different locations,
what are some of the things that,
from a compliance perspective,
that you're starting tosee and/or talk about
that people are trying to figure out
when it comes to remote work?
- Yeah, that's a really funnycomment that you just shared
and literally halfway there, right?
If you're just looking atwomen in your workforce,
(06:30):
not that that's not important,
but that's certainly not the only thing.
I think, as you mentioned,there are a ton of things
that practitioners need to think about
in terms of remote workand their workforce.
And I'll share just kind of anecdotally
the first thing that comes to mind
is just the strugglesthat we're all facing
in terms of talent retention.
(06:50):
I was just interviewingsomeone the other day
and asking them essentially
why they're thinking ofleaving their organization.
And they said,
"They're trying to make usall come back to the office
and we've been soeffective at doing our jobs
for so many years.
I don't understand why I have to."
And I think that if that'scritical to your culture
(07:10):
that people are in the office,
you need to do a really goodjob of explaining the why.
If it's about comradery,
if it's about collaborative workspaces,
you need to make sure thatyour people understand that
because there are so many organizations
at least claiming agreener pasture right now
that they don't necessarilyknow whether that's true or not,
(07:33):
and they don't necessarily have something
that they can kind of hold onto
in terms of why it's important to you.
And unless you can provide that,
you are probably goingto see people leaving
if you are trying tohave them come back in.
Now, otherwise, in terms of compliance,
I think things we think about
are things like paid sick leave,
paid family leave.
(07:53):
Even things that areseemingly kind of small,
like internet reimbursement,
these are things that arerequired in certain places.
You must provide them incertain jurisdictions,
but what that might createif you're only providing them
in certain jurisdictions issituations in which my coworker
(08:15):
who's doing exactly the same job as me
on exactly the same team,
reporting to exactly the same leader
is being treated differently in policy
than I am being treated.
And again, that can be difficultfor workers to understand
unless you are explainingto them very clearly
in a way that makes sense to them
why you're handling it that way.
(08:36):
And I think, just clearly,
there are business needs thatmake some of it difficult
to have an actually equitablepolicy across all places.
Like maybe you can't meet thatmost stringent requirement
for all of your workersregardless of geographic location
because it's difficult for you to do that
in terms of the financialimpact or whatever it might be.
(08:57):
I completely understandthat that is a real struggle
business has run up against.
But the way that you're messaging that,
if that is your situation, is so critical
to make sure that your workers understand
why they're having adifferent employee experience
than the person right next to them.
- It's so important tolean into transparency.
(09:20):
That's something we've talkedabout a lot on the podcast
and I'm amazed at organizations that still
keep like a thin veilover the information.
You know, like you said, ifyou're in a situation where
you have real estatecommitments on a building
and that's why you'rebringing your employees back
because otherwise you feel likeyou're throwing away money,
(09:43):
tell your employees that.
Be open and honest about the expectation
and give your employees alsothe room to make the choice
whether they're gonna stayat your organization or not.
So don't go into it blindsided.
You know, if you know you'regonna bring everybody back
and you have that expectation,
then there's gonna be turnover, right?
You're gonna have some people
who choose not to participate that way.
(10:05):
And so be cognizant of that.
And that goes back to internetreimbursement too, right?
If you're meeting the minimum requirement
based on the jurisdiction
and that's the onlyreason you're offering it,
just be honest about that.
You know, honesty and transparency
in the things that you'rekind of handcuffed to do,
I feel like people appreciatethat more than being fed
(10:27):
kind of a line.
And so-- I agree with you.
I think that the awareness,like we're all adults.
For the most part,
people that are workingat your organization
are smart enough and capable enough
to understand if youcan give them a reason,
but if you don't say anything,
often what you'll find is thatthe story that they make up
is different than what the truth is
(10:48):
and doesn't necessarilypaint the organization
in the most flattering light,whatever that might be.
- And I think that goesinto the next topic
around flexible work and worker wellbeing.
Because so much of that flexibility
that employees are lookingfor has to come hand in hand
with being transparent onnot only the business needs,
(11:08):
but your personal expectations
that you have for your employees
and your availability andall that kind of stuff.
So as we think about flexibility,
what are the compliance pieces
we need to think about in that space now?
- There are a few that arekind of burgeoning right now.
I'm gonna kind of just bullet them out
and then we can dive into thema little bit more in depth.
(11:28):
One is worker wellbeing.
So we touched on thata little bit earlier.
We'll dive into that a little bit more.
The next is financial wellbeing.
But just part of wellbeing,
but not always exactly thefirst thing people think of
when you use that phrase.
And the next that I thinkis important to mention
is privacy.
Because I think that we'restarting to see some changes
(11:49):
in how regulators are thinkingabout employee monitoring
in these flexible andremote kind of environments.
And I think that's something
employers need to begin thinking about
so that they're not kind of caught
in an awkward position later if and when
additional regulation doesroll out in that space.
So in terms of worker wellbeing,
(12:10):
this I think has becomea huge area of focus
in the last severalmonths or years actually
because as people kind of lived through
the experience of thepandemic and came out
on the other side, having had some time
to kind of reflect on what just happened.
We've all kind of come away
with slightly different expectations
for how we want to care for ourselves.
(12:32):
And how we care for ourselves
in regards to the way we spend our time.
And I think there has been,
in some ways, that shift isborn out of thoughtfulness,
like I just described.
In some ways, that shift is born out
of having had a lived experience
of being able to be much more flexible
and finding that you're still able
to be extremely productiveand get your job done.
(12:54):
So both of those realitieskind of happening concurrently
led to a lot of people saying like,
"Wait a second, like do Iactually have to be online
from eight to five
or is it okay if I'monline from nine to four,
and then log in for a little bit
after I take my kid to soccer practice
or coach my kid's tee-ball game,"
or whatever it is that youmight have in your personal life
(13:17):
that might conflict with
what we think of as standardtraditional work hours.
So I think workers are reallystarting to look at that
and really starting tothink about flexibility
in terms of their work life balance.
The next kind of thingthat folds into that
is wellbeing in terms of mental health.
You know, we've seen a huge shift
(13:39):
in the way that peopleare thinking about that
and the way that people areexperiencing their lives
and talking about openly
how they're actually feelingand experiencing their job.
And this has led to such amassive global conversation
that even the World HealthOrganization weighed in recently
with some guidance on how employers
(14:00):
should start to thinkabout worker wellbeing.
So they're saying things like,
think about adjusting your environment.
Think about creating wayswithin the physical space
if you have a physicalspace your workers are in
that you can encourage more walking.
Like how can you actuallyphysically change the space?
Do you think things liketreadmill desks would be helpful?
(14:21):
Do you think encouraging people
to use the stairs would be helpful?
And so on.
So just kind of, again,
thoughtfully looking atthe physical environment
and trying to figure out howyou can create more space
for wellness within that.
They're also encouraging employers
to look at things likeeffort-reward imbalances.
So if this is not a phrasethat you've heard before,
(14:43):
essentially what that means is,
are there tasks thatyour workers are doing
that are high effort,
difficult to accomplish forwhatever reason, and low reward?
Be that in terms of paysatisfaction, whatever.
So the thing that immediatelykind of comes to mind for me
is like manual processes.
Like everybody's got amillion manual processes.
(15:04):
Those, I would say, are probablyan effort-reward imbalance.
Is there anything you can do about that?
Because those are the types ofthings that make people feel
potentially a little bitworse about their job
than you mean for them too.
They're also suggestingmore practical things
like manager trainings,
talking to managers and people leaders
(15:24):
about how to spot signsof maybe depression
or anxiety in the peoplethat work for them.
How to talk about that,
how to open up that conversation.
And then practical skills for employees.
So how do employees arm themselves
for having those potentialdays that are down days?
Like how do you adjust for that?
(15:46):
So I think those areall the biggest kind of
wellbeing issues that the WHO
is pointing employers to think about.
And I think it's likely thatwe'll begin to see other
regulators or lawmakersthinking about that as well.
- How do you see financialwellbeing being addressed now?
(16:08):
- I think that financial wellbeing,
there are a couple of ways.
So one of the themes that we might notice
as we talk through thisis there are a few things
that have happened kindof scattershot across
many, many jurisdictionsover the last few years.
Things like, there areseveral states, as you know,
that require employersto somehow more actively
(16:29):
manage their employees'retirement savings,
be that an automatic enrollment
in some sort of state secure choice
or something like secure choice.
And the employee then could, I suppose,
opt out in many of those jurisdictions,
but the employer is requiredto kind of nudge them
in that direction, so to speak.
(16:50):
And the idea here is we know as a country
that there are many people thatdo not have enough savings,
even for an emergency,
much less to plan for their retirement.
So states are beginningto think about that.
And as states have begunto think about that,
so has the federal government.
So we've just seen thatSecure 2.0 was passed.
At this point, just a month or so ago.
(17:12):
And what that means isthat many more businesses
are going to be expected to create
and offer retirementplans for their workers.
They will also, those businessesbe eligible for credits
if they do matchingcontributions, for example.
And again, kind of callingback to the state plans,
they're going to be expectedto automatically enroll
(17:34):
employees in those plans,
and that's gonna be comingwithin just the next few years.
So I think that's probably
the biggest complianceconsideration in that space.
Just from a general HRpractice consideration,
I'm also seeing kind of a myriadof new financial wellness,
more elective offerings hit the market
so that employers have the opportunity
(17:55):
to partner with whatI would call, I guess,
essentially like a benefitsvendor that creates content
to help their employees understandtheir financial wellness.
So things like creditor credit monitoring,
some sort of educationalkind of offering in terms of
maybe budget managementor savings management,
things like that.
So I'm sure you're probablyseeing stuff like that
(18:17):
popping up as well.
And I think that's going to be
a big market differentiator in some ways
in terms of talent too.
- And when you're thinkingthrough all of these things,
financial wellbeing, personal,mental, holistic wellbeing,
monitoring, privacy,creating that flexibility,
(18:38):
it's important to make surethat you think about this
from the perspective of notonly a salaried employee
who has more flexibility
that might be able to tap intowellbeing in a different way.
You know, for example, ifyou're a knowledge worker
who's remote right now andyou have the flexibility,
you might decide in the middle of the day,
"Hey, for my mental health,I'm gonna go to the gym."
And you can take an hour,
(18:59):
an hour and a half in the middleof your day and go do that.
If you're an hourly employeeon a manufacturing line,
you don't have the same sortof definition of flexibility
and access to the sametype of wellbeing activity.
So I appreciate that youmentioned financial wellbeing
and balance because I think that
you can address thosethings in different ways
for different populations,but it goes back
(19:19):
to knowing what yourpopulation wants, right?
And asking those questions.
You know, as we continue to think through
this next couple years and what's coming,
I've seen this shift inHR practitioners from
kind of like this old additive like,
"Oh, I'm a people person,
I'm not really into data orI don't understand data,"
or whatever that is,that's changed, right?
(19:42):
There's an expectation nowthat you make a decision
to be actively involvedin thinking about data
when you are making decisionsfor your organization.
So as you've seen that kind of shift,
what are some of the thingsthat you're seeing pop up
in the data-drivenbusiness decision space?
- Yeah, I think thatthere are a few things.
(20:03):
And again, like some of thesetopics overlap a little bit.
So I think the thing that
is most interesting to mein the legislative space
that would come up here is also something
that I think overlapswith the DEI conversation
that we'll have shortly andthat is AI in hiring decisions.
(20:25):
So we're beginning to see some states,
some locals either creatingor passing legislation
that requires employersto be very thoughtful
about how they're usingautomated decision making
in their hiring process.
So what I mean by that
is there are manyapplicant tracking systems
(20:46):
that offer you the ability to,
for example, kind of, I'mgonna use the word query.
I'm not sure if that's the right word,
but kind of query the candidate pool
that has applied for a particular job
and look for specific kind of keywords.
So a specific kind of background,
a specific skillset, something like that,
that aligns to your job description.
(21:08):
And as a person hiring,
like that or a TA team for example,
that might be a fantastic selling point
because if you don'thave anything like that,
you might be manually combing through
1,200 resumes for the same type of job
if you're kind of on a hiring spree
in a specific department or something.
(21:29):
And that can be reallydifficult, time consuming.
So what they're kind ofoffering is an automated way
to kind of sift through some of that
and bring ideally, likethe cream to the top.
The problem with that is thatit can potentially create
some kind of disparate impactwhere you're unintentionally
(21:50):
sorting out qualified candidates
that you may actually reallyneed to look at more closely.
So a lot of the legislation
that's been proposed in this space
or that I think in New York,
there even is a past bill now.
It essentially says you needto be auditing that technology
(22:11):
to make sure that it's not having,
not creating any kind of disparate impact.
You need to be doing thaton a regular cadence.
So annually, for example,
making sure that thattechnology that you're using
is not unintentionally creatingany discriminatory outcomes
when that is not theintention of the process
that you're going through.
(22:31):
So from my perspective,
I think that's the mostinteresting compliance change
in the space of howwe're thinking about data
for our people analytics.
- And if you're listening and you're like,
"Well, how can technology be biased?"
You know, that's a question
that I think we've been asked before
and the technology itself isn't,
(22:52):
but it's designed by people, right?
And so there's implicit bias
that even shows up in coding, right?
And so part of that is backendeducation of developers
and having them thinkabout design thinking
from a inclusivity and a DEI perspective.
You know, it's funny.
(23:12):
I don't know if I've sharedthis on the podcast before,
but I have heard of when originally those
hand washing automation stations
were designed where you stickyour hand into the water
and it turns on automatically
that people with darker skin color
had a hard time gettingthose things to turn on.
And it seems like, whywould that be the case?
Well, because the person testing it
(23:33):
or the designer didn'thave that skin tone.
And so that's how it kind of manifested.
And so I think when wethink about technology,
especially, I love therecommendation around auditing it
and making sure that the creamthat is rising to the top
is what you expect to see
and aligns with your diversity initiatives
inside your own organization.
You know, speaking of diversity overall,
(23:55):
you know, is there somethingelse related to that
that you would add?
- Yeah, I think just kind ofcalling back to the technology,
how can technology be biased?
You know, I have one example
that was brought to my attention recently
that's I thought was really interesting
and I hadn't thought of.
And that is that often,
organizations will require some sort of,
(24:17):
I wanna call it like an entrance test.
You know, like there's some sort of,
either in the hiring processfor particular roles, perhaps,
like if you're gonna be acustomer service representative
or a salesperson,
your organization mightrequire some sort of assessment
so that you can qualify for that role.
And they're kind of, I think,
essentially lookingfor specific skillsets.
But what can happen is that,
(24:39):
for example, individualsthat have neurodiversity.
So perhaps some sort of way of thinking
that might be slightly different
than someone who designedthe program to your point.
They're kind of unfairly weeded out
because maybe they can'tmeet the time requirement
or something like that.
So I think those are thekinds of things that,
(24:59):
again, I hear that too.
Like how can technology be biased?
And I completely understand
how you might not thinkof an issue like that,
but then once somebody bringsthat to your attention,
you think, "Oh gosh,
I'm sure there are a tonof ways that could happen."
- Yeah, we had somebody on whotheir organization supports
finding those who areon the spectrum jobs.
(25:20):
And so we were talking about tips
on how to interview people with autism,
and it was really interestingbecause his perspective was
with the way that our worldis going and more video chats
and those types of tools beingused to interview people,
that some people who have autism,
(25:41):
that is very overwhelmingand they're gonna show up
poorly on camera compared toif you did a phone interview
without video.
And so it's thinkingthrough all of those things
when you're thinking aboutdiversity and inclusion
is how do you wanna show up
to the people that you're attracting?
But these aren't the onlyDEI issues and initiatives
(26:04):
that we have to think about.
You know, is there otherthings that you're seeing
come to the surface thatare in the compliance space,
but are also hitting major DEI initiatives
that we're thinking aboutin our organizations?
- Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think from acompliance perspective,
some of the biggestarea of focus right now
(26:25):
are what I would generally consider
to be issues thatprimarily impact females.
So, and some of these are no surprise.
You know, no surprise things like
how we're thinking aboutleave for miscarriages
or fertility treatmentsor care of dependence.
(26:46):
Like many of these things
have been top of mind conversations
for the last couple of yearsfor a few different reasons.
So we've got lots ofconversation around Roe
and how that might impact your benefits
and how people are thinking about that
in terms of their employmentrelationships and obligations.
We've got lots of conversationaround care of dependence
In the wake, again, of COVID
(27:08):
when people had to kindof manage their home
and their family in a very different way
than they were used to.
And people are becoming very open
in talking about fertility treatments,
which in many ways, for a very long time,
I think was, I don't wannasay a taboo conversation,
but not necessarily a conversation
you were having with your employer.
And people are thinkingabout all of those things
(27:28):
very differently.
And employers are expected to
accommodate and assist andsupport their workforces
in really different waysthan they were before.
And I think kind of particularly,
we need to think about that in terms of
kind of the mass exodus we've seen
of women from leadership roles.
(27:48):
Why? Why are they leaving?
It's because the balance,
the flexibility that they needto be effective at their job
and also be effective in their home life,
which is very likely,they're much bigger priority.
Those things are conflicting.
And because of that, they're opting out.
So how are employers thinking about that
(28:11):
and how are lawmakersbeginning to think about
protecting those women and those rights?
Because those issues thatthose new leave types
are meant to address are seasonal.
These are just small seasons of your life.
Like if you're unfortunate and having,
unfortunately having a miscarriage,
that's a very smallspecific window of your life
(28:34):
where that is an acute thing
that you need to bemanaging and attending to
and dealing with.
That may not affect your productivity
10 years from now in yourability to be a future leader.
So having that opportunityfor those people
that are going throughsome season of their life
that's difficult, fertilitytreatments, care of dependence,
whatever that might be,
(28:55):
being able to manage their home life
and having the leave that they need
to take care of themselvesand their people
while still staying apart of the workforce
so that in the future,
they can continue tocontribute to that organization
or their industry orwhatever it is in a big way.
That's important and that'ssomething that, again,
(29:17):
I think wasn't really talkedabout or thought about
in the way that it is being talked about
and thought about now 10 years ago.
- And I would challenge us to think
that while this definitelyimpacts women more,
that our views around paidparental leave in general,
should change.
(29:38):
You know, I once workedfor an organization
that was based in the Netherlands,that's where they were,
that's where their home offices were.
And my boss was expecting,
and she was sharing with somebody back
at the larger corporate office
that she was gonna takeabout six weeks off
and then come back.
And this gentleman was shocked.
(29:58):
You know, he was like, "Six weeks?"
You know, we typicallywill take a year off.
And I'm like, "Wow."
You know, imagine beingable to know that you can
support your child and still get paid
and have that first year ofbonding and not have to choose
between having a successful career, right?
And being the person
(30:20):
that you wanna show upfor for your family.
So I think a lot ofpeople struggle with that.
I think men struggle with that too.
Like having to give excuses
as to why they have to do something
compared to why yourwife can't handle that.
So I think it's reallychallenging us in general
to think differently aboutthose kinds of things
and the equity that we're providing.
(30:41):
But I do appreciate you mentioningdifferent types of leaves
because there are thingsthat miss, that we miss.
You know, when I thinkabout benefits offerings,
you might have a whole section
that talks about fertility treatments
and you might have allthese ancillary things
that you support with paid parental leave,
but have you considered,
(31:01):
well, what if you're adopting a child?
Have you included thatin your documentation
and the way you think about things?
So there's all thosedifferent types of things
that we need to think more broadly
when it comes to DEI initiatives overall.
So I appreciate youbringing those things up.
- Absolutely.
And I wanna clarify quicklytoo that I'm mostly,
I'm mentioning those thingsbecause that's kind of where
(31:21):
lawmakers, regulatorsare looking right now.
Those are the thingsthat I'm seeing actually
beginning to take hold, take root.
But in terms of justgeneral DEIA initiatives,
it's so much bigger than that.
I mean, as you kind of just mentioned.
And I think we are beginningto see a real culture shift
in terms of what people areexpecting from their employers
(31:42):
and how they want their employersto be thinking about DEIA.
Those, if that's part of your culture,
part of what you want to accomplish
from a corporate perspective,
you need to be really thinking about that
and making that foundational
to everything else youare doing, not just leave.
Leave is a small, small,small piece of that.
(32:03):
It weaves through everything.
You know, like we said, it weaves through
what your hiring practices areand how you're thinking about
attracting and retaining new talent,
all the way through the entirelifecycle of that employee.
- Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
You know, Corinne, thishas been such a wild ride,
not only with you,
(32:24):
but with this podcast andour amazing listeners.
So again, stay tuned for thecommercial coming up next
to let you know as to what youshould be subscribing to next
so that you don't miss out
on some of the great contentthat we plan to produce.
And Corinne, thanks for being my bookend.
You've always been such a great partner
and I can't wait to seewhat we do next together.
(32:46):
- Thank you so much for having me, Shari.
(ambient music)
- New year, new podcast.
Check out the HR mix tape.
We'll still discuss everythingyou love about "PCTY Talks,"
but take it to the next level.
Head over to Apple Podcast, Spotify,
or your favorite podcastplayer to subscribe now.
(33:08):
Tune in starting March 21st
for engaging interviewswith industry leaders,
coffee chats with HR trendsetters,
compliance tips, and so much more.
You don't wanna miss it.
(bright music)
(upbeat music)
- Hey, and welcome to "PCTY Talks."
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,
we'll stay close to thenews and info you need
to succeed as an HR pro.
And together, we'll explore topics
around HR thought leadership, compliance,
and real life HR situationswe face every day.
(00:28):
- Joining me today on thepodcast is Corinne Tirone.
She is somebody who has been with me
since the very beginning.
She is the director ofgovernment relations
here at Paylocity
and has a really interestingperspective on compliance,
both internally on the thingsthat we deal with here,
as well as externallyand making sure that you,
as HR practitioners and business leaders,
(00:50):
are kept up to speed.
So Corinne,
thanks for taking a fewminutes to chat with me.
- Oh, I'm happy to be here, Shari.
And I gotta tell you,it's an honor and humbling
to be the last "PCTY Talks" episode guest.
I was thinking back towhen we started this
and how many amazing conversationsyou've had since then.
So I'm very excited to be the bookend
(01:12):
because I feel like you'vegot a really great pool
to draw from.
- And if you're listeningand you were just shocked
by what Corinne had to share, this indeed,
yes, is our last episode of "PCTY Talks,"
but it is not the end for us.
There is something new coming,so make sure that you listen
to the commercial at the very end
to let you know what is coming next
(01:34):
and our next evolution.
So it was important, Corinne,that you'd be my bookend
because you were here atthe very, very beginning.
So I appreciate that.
You know, when I think over the last
five seasons of the podcast,
let alone the last couple years for HR,
our function has always been important.
But during COVID itwas elevated to a level
(01:57):
that it should have alwaysbeen at, let's be honest,
but in a way where leaders started to see
what HR could bring to thetable in a different way
and really spotlight theimportant conversations
that we need to have
and how we can collaboratewith other leaders
and the things that they wanna accomplish.
So we've seen that shift in our roles,
(02:17):
but we've also seen a shift
in what employees expectout of organizations.
You know, we've talked alot in this post pandemic,
new endemic space about whatthat means as a function of HR
and what we're trying to accomplish.
And you've seen that as wetalk about the future of work
and employee experienceand employee engagement
and the gig economy andall those different things.
(02:38):
So as I think about thefuture for practitioners,
I'm curious of your perspective
in the space that you sit in,
what are the thingsthat we're gonna have to
continuously think about
or new issues that you see coming up
that we need to makesure we're abreast of?
- You know, that's agreat question, Shari.
And I think that the waythat I think about this
(03:00):
is kind of, as you said,
a continuation of whereHR should have always been
and some of the concernsthat teams like yours
have been working through sincethey started in this field.
It's really a marriage oflaw and practice, right?
So you have to be thinkingabout the way that the landscape
is evolving in terms of the legislation
(03:20):
and any regulations that are coming out,
as well as how your workforce individually
can manage those new requirements
and keep the culture thatyou're trying to build alive.
I think that as we kind of look forward,
the biggest issues thatwe're going to be seeing
are things like compliance with the new,
with a largely remote workforce.
(03:41):
This isn't exactly a new issue.
This is something that, as you mentioned,
this is a huge shiftduring the COVID times.
Early on,
many companies had to switchto working largely remotely.
But since then, there'sbeen quite an evolution
in terms of how many companiesare allowing that to continue
or are offering some sort of hybrid model.
(04:02):
And there are a varietyof different policy
or compliance struggles thatmight go along with that
or challenges that organizations need to
figure out how to manage.
Kind of similarly, you know,there's a big push towards
flexibility all around,
not just in terms of where you're working,
but maybe when you'reworking, how you're working,
as well as worker wellbeing.
(04:23):
You know, those things areall kind of tied together.
The next issue that I think is out there
that we all need to be thinking about
is how data drives our business
and how we make decisions thatare grounded in information.
We have more data thanwe've ever had, right?
But how we use that, how we leverage that,
that's going to be a hugepart of the HR practice
(04:45):
in coming years.
As well as how we thinkabout DEI initiatives
and how that builds intoour policy and our cultures
as an organization.
- I couldn't agree more with your list.
And each one of those,
I think I wanna dive into a little bit
'cause I think there's just unique nuances
that we have to consider.
(05:05):
So let's start with remote work.
It's interesting to see now,we're at the beginning of 2023,
what organizations areembracing remote work
and embracing this new way ofthinking about their workforce
and those that are franklystruggling with it.
You know, when I read aninteresting article the other day
that talked about a leader,
(05:26):
and I'm not gonna callout the leader on purpose,
but they talked about that remote work
doesn't work for businessesunless maybe for women.
And it was such a
frustrating comment 'cause in one way,
I felt like the leader got it.
Like, hey, we're balancingso much, we need flexibility,
(05:47):
but then totally miss the mark
and said that it's only women.
You know, it's like, okay.
Well, you're halfway there, you know?
And so when you think about the things
that you're thinking aboutfrom a compliance standpoint
when it comes to remote work,
tax requirements, workingin multiple states,
working hours,
how you deal with comraderyand developing culture
(06:09):
across those different locations,
what are some of the things that,
from a compliance perspective,
that you're starting tosee and/or talk about
that people are trying to figure out
when it comes to remote work?
- Yeah, that's a really funnycomment that you just shared
and literally halfway there, right?
If you're just looking atwomen in your workforce,
(06:30):
not that that's not important,
but that's certainly not the only thing.
I think, as you mentioned,there are a ton of things
that practitioners need to think about
in terms of remote workand their workforce.
And I'll share just kind of anecdotally
the first thing that comes to mind
is just the strugglesthat we're all facing
in terms of talent retention.
(06:50):
I was just interviewingsomeone the other day
and asking them essentially
why they're thinking ofleaving their organization.
And they said,
"They're trying to make usall come back to the office
and we've been soeffective at doing our jobs
for so many years.
I don't understand why I have to."
And I think that if that'scritical to your culture
(07:10):
that people are in the office,
you need to do a really goodjob of explaining the why.
If it's about comradery,
if it's about collaborative workspaces,
you need to make sure thatyour people understand that
because there are so many organizations
at least claiming agreener pasture right now
that they don't necessarilyknow whether that's true or not,
(07:33):
and they don't necessarily have something
that they can kind of hold onto
in terms of why it's important to you.
And unless you can provide that,
you are probably goingto see people leaving
if you are trying tohave them come back in.
Now, otherwise, in terms of compliance,
I think things we think about
are things like paid sick leave,
paid family leave.
(07:53):
Even things that areseemingly kind of small,
like internet reimbursement,
these are things that arerequired in certain places.
You must provide them incertain jurisdictions,
but what that might createif you're only providing them
in certain jurisdictions issituations in which my coworker
(08:15):
who's doing exactly the same job as me
on exactly the same team,
reporting to exactly the same leader
is being treated differently in policy
than I am being treated.
And again, that can be difficultfor workers to understand
unless you are explainingto them very clearly
in a way that makes sense to them
why you're handling it that way.
(08:36):
And I think, just clearly,
there are business needs thatmake some of it difficult
to have an actually equitablepolicy across all places.
Like maybe you can't meet thatmost stringent requirement
for all of your workersregardless of geographic location
because it's difficult for you to do that
in terms of the financialimpact or whatever it might be.
(08:57):
I completely understandthat that is a real struggle
business has run up against.
But the way that you're messaging that,
if that is your situation, is so critical
to make sure that your workers understand
why they're having adifferent employee experience
than the person right next to them.
- It's so important tolean into transparency.
(09:20):
That's something we've talkedabout a lot on the podcast
and I'm amazed at organizations that still
keep like a thin veilover the information.
You know, like you said, ifyou're in a situation where
you have real estatecommitments on a building
and that's why you'rebringing your employees back
because otherwise you feel likeyou're throwing away money,
(09:43):
tell your employees that.
Be open and honest about the expectation
and give your employees alsothe room to make the choice
whether they're gonna stayat your organization or not.
So don't go into it blindsided.
You know, if you know you'regonna bring everybody back
and you have that expectation,
then there's gonna be turnover, right?
You're gonna have some people
who choose not to participate that way.
(10:05):
And so be cognizant of that.
And that goes back to internetreimbursement too, right?
If you're meeting the minimum requirement
based on the jurisdiction
and that's the onlyreason you're offering it,
just be honest about that.
You know, honesty and transparency
in the things that you'rekind of handcuffed to do,
I feel like people appreciatethat more than being fed
(10:27):
kind of a line.
And so-- I agree with you.
I think that the awareness,like we're all adults.
For the most part,
people that are workingat your organization
are smart enough and capable enough
to understand if youcan give them a reason,
but if you don't say anything,
often what you'll find is thatthe story that they make up
is different than what the truth is
(10:48):
and doesn't necessarilypaint the organization
in the most flattering light,whatever that might be.
- And I think that goesinto the next topic
around flexible work and worker wellbeing.
Because so much of that flexibility
that employees are lookingfor has to come hand in hand
with being transparent onnot only the business needs,
(11:08):
but your personal expectations
that you have for your employees
and your availability andall that kind of stuff.
So as we think about flexibility,
what are the compliance pieces
we need to think about in that space now?
- There are a few that arekind of burgeoning right now.
I'm gonna kind of just bullet them out
and then we can dive into thema little bit more in depth.
(11:28):
One is worker wellbeing.
So we touched on thata little bit earlier.
We'll dive into that a little bit more.
The next is financial wellbeing.
But just part of wellbeing,
but not always exactly thefirst thing people think of
when you use that phrase.
And the next that I thinkis important to mention
is privacy.
Because I think that we'restarting to see some changes
(11:49):
in how regulators are thinkingabout employee monitoring
in these flexible andremote kind of environments.
And I think that's something
employers need to begin thinking about
so that they're not kind of caught
in an awkward position later if and when
additional regulation doesroll out in that space.
So in terms of worker wellbeing,
(12:10):
this I think has becomea huge area of focus
in the last severalmonths or years actually
because as people kind of lived through
the experience of thepandemic and came out
on the other side, having had some time
to kind of reflect on what just happened.
We've all kind of come away
with slightly different expectations
for how we want to care for ourselves.
(12:32):
And how we care for ourselves
in regards to the way we spend our time.
And I think there has been,
in some ways, that shift isborn out of thoughtfulness,
like I just described.
In some ways, that shift is born out
of having had a lived experience
of being able to be much more flexible
and finding that you're still able
to be extremely productiveand get your job done.
(12:54):
So both of those realitieskind of happening concurrently
led to a lot of people saying like,
"Wait a second, like do Iactually have to be online
from eight to five
or is it okay if I'monline from nine to four,
and then log in for a little bit
after I take my kid to soccer practice
or coach my kid's tee-ball game,"
or whatever it is that youmight have in your personal life
(13:17):
that might conflict with
what we think of as standardtraditional work hours.
So I think workers are reallystarting to look at that
and really starting tothink about flexibility
in terms of their work life balance.
The next kind of thingthat folds into that
is wellbeing in terms of mental health.
You know, we've seen a huge shift
(13:39):
in the way that peopleare thinking about that
and the way that people areexperiencing their lives
and talking about openly
how they're actually feelingand experiencing their job.
And this has led to such amassive global conversation
that even the World HealthOrganization weighed in recently
with some guidance on how employers
(14:00):
should start to thinkabout worker wellbeing.
So they're saying things like,
think about adjusting your environment.
Think about creating wayswithin the physical space
if you have a physicalspace your workers are in
that you can encourage more walking.
Like how can you actuallyphysically change the space?
Do you think things liketreadmill desks would be helpful?
(14:21):
Do you think encouraging people
to use the stairs would be helpful?
And so on.
So just kind of, again,
thoughtfully looking atthe physical environment
and trying to figure out howyou can create more space
for wellness within that.
They're also encouraging employers
to look at things likeeffort-reward imbalances.
So if this is not a phrasethat you've heard before,
(14:43):
essentially what that means is,
are there tasks thatyour workers are doing
that are high effort,
difficult to accomplish forwhatever reason, and low reward?
Be that in terms of paysatisfaction, whatever.
So the thing that immediatelykind of comes to mind for me
is like manual processes.
Like everybody's got amillion manual processes.
(15:04):
Those, I would say, are probablyan effort-reward imbalance.
Is there anything you can do about that?
Because those are the types ofthings that make people feel
potentially a little bitworse about their job
than you mean for them too.
They're also suggestingmore practical things
like manager trainings,
talking to managers and people leaders
(15:24):
about how to spot signsof maybe depression
or anxiety in the peoplethat work for them.
How to talk about that,
how to open up that conversation.
And then practical skills for employees.
So how do employees arm themselves
for having those potentialdays that are down days?
Like how do you adjust for that?
(15:46):
So I think those areall the biggest kind of
wellbeing issues that the WHO
is pointing employers to think about.
And I think it's likely thatwe'll begin to see other
regulators or lawmakersthinking about that as well.
- How do you see financialwellbeing being addressed now?
(16:08):
- I think that financial wellbeing,
there are a couple of ways.
So one of the themes that we might notice
as we talk through thisis there are a few things
that have happened kindof scattershot across
many, many jurisdictionsover the last few years.
Things like, there areseveral states, as you know,
that require employersto somehow more actively
(16:29):
manage their employees'retirement savings,
be that an automatic enrollment
in some sort of state secure choice
or something like secure choice.
And the employee then could, I suppose,
opt out in many of those jurisdictions,
but the employer is requiredto kind of nudge them
in that direction, so to speak.
(16:50):
And the idea here is we know as a country
that there are many people thatdo not have enough savings,
even for an emergency,
much less to plan for their retirement.
So states are beginningto think about that.
And as states have begunto think about that,
so has the federal government.
So we've just seen thatSecure 2.0 was passed.
At this point, just a month or so ago.
(17:12):
And what that means isthat many more businesses
are going to be expected to create
and offer retirementplans for their workers.
They will also, those businessesbe eligible for credits
if they do matchingcontributions, for example.
And again, kind of callingback to the state plans,
they're going to be expectedto automatically enroll
(17:34):
employees in those plans,
and that's gonna be comingwithin just the next few years.
So I think that's probably
the biggest complianceconsideration in that space.
Just from a general HRpractice consideration,
I'm also seeing kind of a myriadof new financial wellness,
more elective offerings hit the market
so that employers have the opportunity
(17:55):
to partner with whatI would call, I guess,
essentially like a benefitsvendor that creates content
to help their employees understandtheir financial wellness.
So things like creditor credit monitoring,
some sort of educationalkind of offering in terms of
maybe budget managementor savings management,
things like that.
So I'm sure you're probablyseeing stuff like that
(18:17):
popping up as well.
And I think that's going to be
a big market differentiator in some ways
in terms of talent too.
- And when you're thinkingthrough all of these things,
financial wellbeing, personal,mental, holistic wellbeing,
monitoring, privacy,creating that flexibility,
(18:38):
it's important to make surethat you think about this
from the perspective of notonly a salaried employee
who has more flexibility
that might be able to tap intowellbeing in a different way.
You know, for example, ifyou're a knowledge worker
who's remote right now andyou have the flexibility,
you might decide in the middle of the day,
"Hey, for my mental health,I'm gonna go to the gym."
And you can take an hour,
(18:59):
an hour and a half in the middleof your day and go do that.
If you're an hourly employeeon a manufacturing line,
you don't have the same sortof definition of flexibility
and access to the sametype of wellbeing activity.
So I appreciate that youmentioned financial wellbeing
and balance because I think that
you can address thosethings in different ways
for different populations,but it goes back
(19:19):
to knowing what yourpopulation wants, right?
And asking those questions.
You know, as we continue to think through
this next couple years and what's coming,
I've seen this shift inHR practitioners from
kind of like this old additive like,
"Oh, I'm a people person,
I'm not really into data orI don't understand data,"
or whatever that is,that's changed, right?
(19:42):
There's an expectation nowthat you make a decision
to be actively involvedin thinking about data
when you are making decisionsfor your organization.
So as you've seen that kind of shift,
what are some of the thingsthat you're seeing pop up
in the data-drivenbusiness decision space?
- Yeah, I think thatthere are a few things.
(20:03):
And again, like some of thesetopics overlap a little bit.
So I think the thing that
is most interesting to mein the legislative space
that would come up here is also something
that I think overlapswith the DEI conversation
that we'll have shortly andthat is AI in hiring decisions.
(20:25):
So we're beginning to see some states,
some locals either creatingor passing legislation
that requires employersto be very thoughtful
about how they're usingautomated decision making
in their hiring process.
So what I mean by that
is there are manyapplicant tracking systems
(20:46):
that offer you the ability to,
for example, kind of, I'mgonna use the word query.
I'm not sure if that's the right word,
but kind of query the candidate pool
that has applied for a particular job
and look for specific kind of keywords.
So a specific kind of background,
a specific skillset, something like that,
that aligns to your job description.
(21:08):
And as a person hiring,
like that or a TA team for example,
that might be a fantastic selling point
because if you don'thave anything like that,
you might be manually combing through
1,200 resumes for the same type of job
if you're kind of on a hiring spree
in a specific department or something.
(21:29):
And that can be reallydifficult, time consuming.
So what they're kind ofoffering is an automated way
to kind of sift through some of that
and bring ideally, likethe cream to the top.
The problem with that is thatit can potentially create
some kind of disparate impactwhere you're unintentionally
(21:50):
sorting out qualified candidates
that you may actually reallyneed to look at more closely.
So a lot of the legislation
that's been proposed in this space
or that I think in New York,
there even is a past bill now.
It essentially says you needto be auditing that technology
(22:11):
to make sure that it's not having,
not creating any kind of disparate impact.
You need to be doing thaton a regular cadence.
So annually, for example,
making sure that thattechnology that you're using
is not unintentionally creatingany discriminatory outcomes
when that is not theintention of the process
that you're going through.
(22:31):
So from my perspective,
I think that's the mostinteresting compliance change
in the space of howwe're thinking about data
for our people analytics.
- And if you're listening and you're like,
"Well, how can technology be biased?"
You know, that's a question
that I think we've been asked before
and the technology itself isn't,
(22:52):
but it's designed by people, right?
And so there's implicit bias
that even shows up in coding, right?
And so part of that is backendeducation of developers
and having them thinkabout design thinking
from a inclusivity and a DEI perspective.
You know, it's funny.
(23:12):
I don't know if I've sharedthis on the podcast before,
but I have heard of when originally those
hand washing automation stations
were designed where you stickyour hand into the water
and it turns on automatically
that people with darker skin color
had a hard time gettingthose things to turn on.
And it seems like, whywould that be the case?
Well, because the person testing it
(23:33):
or the designer didn'thave that skin tone.
And so that's how it kind of manifested.
And so I think when wethink about technology,
especially, I love therecommendation around auditing it
and making sure that the creamthat is rising to the top
is what you expect to see
and aligns with your diversity initiatives
inside your own organization.
You know, speaking of diversity overall,
(23:55):
you know, is there somethingelse related to that
that you would add?
- Yeah, I think just kind ofcalling back to the technology,
how can technology be biased?
You know, I have one example
that was brought to my attention recently
that's I thought was really interesting
and I hadn't thought of.
And that is that often,
organizations will require some sort of,
(24:17):
I wanna call it like an entrance test.
You know, like there's some sort of,
either in the hiring processfor particular roles, perhaps,
like if you're gonna be acustomer service representative
or a salesperson,
your organization mightrequire some sort of assessment
so that you can qualify for that role.
And they're kind of, I think,
essentially lookingfor specific skillsets.
But what can happen is that,
(24:39):
for example, individualsthat have neurodiversity.
So perhaps some sort of way of thinking
that might be slightly different
than someone who designedthe program to your point.
They're kind of unfairly weeded out
because maybe they can'tmeet the time requirement
or something like that.
So I think those are thekinds of things that,
(24:59):
again, I hear that too.
Like how can technology be biased?
And I completely understand
how you might not thinkof an issue like that,
but then once somebody bringsthat to your attention,
you think, "Oh gosh,
I'm sure there are a tonof ways that could happen."
- Yeah, we had somebody on whotheir organization supports
finding those who areon the spectrum jobs.
(25:20):
And so we were talking about tips
on how to interview people with autism,
and it was really interestingbecause his perspective was
with the way that our worldis going and more video chats
and those types of tools beingused to interview people,
that some people who have autism,
(25:41):
that is very overwhelmingand they're gonna show up
poorly on camera compared toif you did a phone interview
without video.
And so it's thinkingthrough all of those things
when you're thinking aboutdiversity and inclusion
is how do you wanna show up
to the people that you're attracting?
But these aren't the onlyDEI issues and initiatives
(26:04):
that we have to think about.
You know, is there otherthings that you're seeing
come to the surface thatare in the compliance space,
but are also hitting major DEI initiatives
that we're thinking aboutin our organizations?
- Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think from acompliance perspective,
some of the biggestarea of focus right now
(26:25):
are what I would generally consider
to be issues thatprimarily impact females.
So, and some of these are no surprise.
You know, no surprise things like
how we're thinking aboutleave for miscarriages
or fertility treatmentsor care of dependence.
(26:46):
Like many of these things
have been top of mind conversations
for the last couple of yearsfor a few different reasons.
So we've got lots ofconversation around Roe
and how that might impact your benefits
and how people are thinking about that
in terms of their employmentrelationships and obligations.
We've got lots of conversationaround care of dependence
In the wake, again, of COVID
(27:08):
when people had to kindof manage their home
and their family in a very different way
than they were used to.
And people are becoming very open
in talking about fertility treatments,
which in many ways, for a very long time,
I think was, I don't wannasay a taboo conversation,
but not necessarily a conversation
you were having with your employer.
And people are thinkingabout all of those things
(27:28):
very differently.
And employers are expected to
accommodate and assist andsupport their workforces
in really different waysthan they were before.
And I think kind of particularly,
we need to think about that in terms of
kind of the mass exodus we've seen
of women from leadership roles.
(27:48):
Why? Why are they leaving?
It's because the balance,
the flexibility that they needto be effective at their job
and also be effective in their home life,
which is very likely,they're much bigger priority.
Those things are conflicting.
And because of that, they're opting out.
So how are employers thinking about that
(28:11):
and how are lawmakersbeginning to think about
protecting those women and those rights?
Because those issues thatthose new leave types
are meant to address are seasonal.
These are just small seasons of your life.
Like if you're unfortunate and having,
unfortunately having a miscarriage,
that's a very smallspecific window of your life
(28:34):
where that is an acute thing
that you need to bemanaging and attending to
and dealing with.
That may not affect your productivity
10 years from now in yourability to be a future leader.
So having that opportunityfor those people
that are going throughsome season of their life
that's difficult, fertilitytreatments, care of dependence,
whatever that might be,
(28:55):
being able to manage their home life
and having the leave that they need
to take care of themselvesand their people
while still staying apart of the workforce
so that in the future,
they can continue tocontribute to that organization
or their industry orwhatever it is in a big way.
That's important and that'ssomething that, again,
(29:17):
I think wasn't really talkedabout or thought about
in the way that it is being talked about
and thought about now 10 years ago.
- And I would challenge us to think
that while this definitelyimpacts women more,
that our views around paidparental leave in general,
should change.
(29:38):
You know, I once workedfor an organization
that was based in the Netherlands,that's where they were,
that's where their home offices were.
And my boss was expecting,
and she was sharing with somebody back
at the larger corporate office
that she was gonna takeabout six weeks off
and then come back.
And this gentleman was shocked.
(29:58):
You know, he was like, "Six weeks?"
You know, we typicallywill take a year off.
And I'm like, "Wow."
You know, imagine beingable to know that you can
support your child and still get paid
and have that first year ofbonding and not have to choose
between having a successful career, right?
And being the person
(30:20):
that you wanna show upfor for your family.
So I think a lot ofpeople struggle with that.
I think men struggle with that too.
Like having to give excuses
as to why they have to do something
compared to why yourwife can't handle that.
So I think it's reallychallenging us in general
to think differently aboutthose kinds of things
and the equity that we're providing.
(30:41):
But I do appreciate you mentioningdifferent types of leaves
because there are thingsthat miss, that we miss.
You know, when I thinkabout benefits offerings,
you might have a whole section
that talks about fertility treatments
and you might have allthese ancillary things
that you support with paid parental leave,
but have you considered,
(31:01):
well, what if you're adopting a child?
Have you included thatin your documentation
and the way you think about things?
So there's all thosedifferent types of things
that we need to think more broadly
when it comes to DEI initiatives overall.
So I appreciate youbringing those things up.
- Absolutely.
And I wanna clarify quicklytoo that I'm mostly,
I'm mentioning those thingsbecause that's kind of where
(31:21):
lawmakers, regulatorsare looking right now.
Those are the thingsthat I'm seeing actually
beginning to take hold, take root.
But in terms of justgeneral DEIA initiatives,
it's so much bigger than that.
I mean, as you kind of just mentioned.
And I think we are beginningto see a real culture shift
in terms of what people areexpecting from their employers
(31:42):
and how they want their employersto be thinking about DEIA.
Those, if that's part of your culture,
part of what you want to accomplish
from a corporate perspective,
you need to be really thinking about that
and making that foundational
to everything else youare doing, not just leave.
Leave is a small, small,small piece of that.
(32:03):
It weaves through everything.
You know, like we said, it weaves through
what your hiring practices areand how you're thinking about
attracting and retaining new talent,
all the way through the entirelifecycle of that employee.
- Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
You know, Corinne, thishas been such a wild ride,
not only with you,
(32:24):
but with this podcast andour amazing listeners.
So again, stay tuned for thecommercial coming up next
to let you know as to what youshould be subscribing to next
so that you don't miss out
on some of the great contentthat we plan to produce.
And Corinne, thanks for being my bookend.
You've always been such a great partner
and I can't wait to seewhat we do next together.
(32:46):
- Thank you so much for having me, Shari.
(ambient music)
- New year, new podcast.
Check out the HR mix tape.
We'll still discuss everythingyou love about "PCTY Talks,"
but take it to the next level.
Head over to Apple Podcast, Spotify,
or your favorite podcastplayer to subscribe now.
(33:08):
Tune in starting March 21st
for engaging interviewswith industry leaders,
coffee chats with HR trendsetters,
compliance tips, and so much more.
You don't wanna miss it.
(bright music)
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!