December 16, 2022 • 13 mins
As businesses continue to grow and evolve, so too does the role of the CHRO. No longer is this executive responsible for just human resources; they are now a strategic partner in creating and implementing company-wide initiatives. Join Jim Link and host Shari Simpson as they discuss how the CHRO needs to be more than just a HR expert - they need to be a strategic business partner and trusted advisor to the CEO.
Guest: Jim Link, SHRM-SCP, CHRO, SHRM
Jim Link is the Chief Human Resources Officer for the Society for Human Resource Management. With more than 315,000 members worldwide, SHRM is the largest HR professional association in the world and the leading voice for matters related to workers and the workplace.
Jim’s career includes roles of increasing responsibility across various industries and companies, including General Electric, the Pillsbury Company, Porsche Cars, and Randstad. In his recent role as CHRO for Randstad North America, he led a global team of 150 HR professionals who were instrumental in transforming the company into an award-winning, inclusive, and sustainable global leader.
Jim has served as a volunteer leader in several organizations, including the SHRM Foundation Board, the Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank Human Capital Advisory Board, and the Human Resources Leadership Forum.
Jim holds undergraduate and master’s degrees from Murray State University. Born and raised on a working family farm in western Kentucky, he resides in Atlanta and Alexandria, VA.
Jim is an adjunct instructor in the Executive MBA program at the University of Poznan (Poland) School of Economics and Business and the University of Liège (Belgium) Asia-Pacific campus in Taipei, Taiwan.
Mentioned in the episode:
- SHRM: https://www.shrm.org/
- Jim Link: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-link/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(tranquil music)
(00:05):
- Hey, and welcome to PCTY Talks.
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,we'll stay close to the news
and info you need to succeed as an HR pro.
And together we'llexplore topics around HR
thought leadership,compliance, and real life HR
situations we face every day.
(upbeat music)
(00:28):
Joining me on the podcasttoday is Jim from SHRM.
He is their Chief Human Resource Officer
and so excited to sit down and spend
a few minutes with you Jim.
- Thank you Shari. Hi,it's nice to be here.
- So I wanted to start with, you know
you have a really uniqueperspective being CHRO
in a HR organization, kind of like my role
(00:50):
in an HCM organization.
You know, we gotta get to be HR for HR.
And so from yourperspective, how has the role
of the CHRO changed inthe last couple years?
- Well, COVID changedso many things that were
already starting to change prior to 2020.
I really saw a lot of focus on flexibility
(01:12):
and agility and individualizationand personalization
as it relates to thehuman resources space.
It wasn't that long ago thatwe were all taught to believe
that it was a one sizefits all solution set,
and boy those days are gone.
So the idea of flexibility,agility certainly
moved forward 15 to 20 yearsin the space of 24 months.
(01:33):
And that will forever changethe way human resources
and human capital and even thelabor force itself is viewed.
And we'll change how that things get done
in the way organizations respond
to people who are out there looking
for work and trying to make things happen.
They just are not gonna do it
in the way that they did prior.
- You know, I had JohnnyC. Taylor on last year
(01:55):
right when his book cameout talking about reset.
And it was such an exciting topic
for me because I think, you know
the sky's the limit when itcomes to HR for so many years
we talked about havinga seat at the table,
having a seat at the table,
and now it's like we're at the table.
Are we showing up?
Are we coming to the tablethe same way our business
counterparts are coming to the table?
How have you seen CHROs change their focus
(02:17):
and how they show up at that table now?
- Yeah, it's very much moredriven from a business acumen
and what I call numericalreasoning skillset
than it ever has been in the past.
So the types of people that I'm hiring now
into the human resources spacedo not have the same skills
that those did just 5, 6, 7 years ago.
The folks I'm hiring noware much more focused
on analytical reasoning skills,
(02:40):
on critical thinking capability
of being business peoplewho happen to specialize
in the art and science of human capital.
And I like hiring those kinds of people
because they can take all ofthe things that are associated
with the business of human capital
and put it into sucha format in such a way
that business leaders who are sitting
at the table who speak
(03:01):
in numerics can understand that language.
And that's just a lot
of fun to watch and towitness and to experience.
But it's also very, very important that
if you are get that seat at the table
that the way that you maintainthat seat at the table
is by clearly articulatingthe science and art of numbers
just presented from a human capital lens.
(03:22):
- So what do you say
to those HR peoplelistening who are like, yeah
I just got in HR cause I wanna work
with people and I'm not good with numbers.
- I would encourage them to think
about what that means for their career
because there are plentyof people's science
and people oriented professions out there
and human resources iscertainly one of them.
But the way to stardom inthe human resources space
(03:46):
is by having a great understandingof business analytics,
business intelligence,numbers, and other analytics.
What you can do with thatthough is if you are a person
who wants to be a recruiterthen get very, very good
at the business of human talentacquisition numbers, right?
And think about the funneland the way people come in
(04:07):
and you can put thatinto a numerical context
and a numerical way of thinking.
It does mean you haveto understand exactly
how the business works.
It doesn't mean you haveto understand exactly
how recruiting works inthat particular space.
- So what advice do you giveto those that are either newer
in their career andwanting to kind of move up?
I use ladder loosely 'causeI feel like, you know
careers are lattices now,not necessarily ladders
(04:29):
but you know, they want tobe that to that CHR role.
Sometime they want to be in that CHR role
at some point in their career
and maybe they don't havethis current skillset.
How do they start to flexthat muscle and learn more
about using data to accomplish things
they wanna do with talent?
(04:50):
- The most introspective,fully capable people
I'm bumping into this thesedays, are lifelong learners.
And because they're lifelong learners,
they are constantlyinnovating they're constantly
looking for a different answer.
And sometimes the bestanswer might be the one
that's right in front of you,
but if you don't go through that science
(05:10):
of determining what the best outcome
is then you might have missed something.
So I like people whohave that natural innate
ability to learn and for whom that is part
of their DNA and part of their culture.
I also think there arethree things that people
in the future are gonna be focused on who
are going to be effectivehuman capital leaders
be they see PO's or sees HRO's
(05:31):
or whatever that title might be.
The first one of thosethings, very, very obviously
is the idea that you needto understand talent,
tech and leadership.
Those are the three things
where I would be investing my money
if I were a young humanresources professional now
who wanted to be a moresenior HR professional
in the future.
(05:52):
Talent it's all about that,you mentioned it already
the great reset, the great reshuffle.
I actually think it'sthe great reconciliation
because what people are trying to come
to terms with is are theywilling to put in the time,
energy and have thefortitude that they need
in order to be successful?
If not, and they don't feellike that they're getting that
from their employer,then that balance is off.
(06:13):
And so is that a reset, areshuffle, reconciliation?
I don't know what it is, it'ssome reword somewhere, right?
But the idea is thatthere has to be a balance
between what you're willing to put in
and what you're willing to getback or what you do get back.
So I'm very excited
about that opportunity aroundtalent and what talent means.
Tech is just that if wein the human capital space
(06:34):
don't understand the technologythat's available to us
particularly HCM typecompanies and organizations
which you guys should know allabout, then we're in trouble.
So I am a big believer thatyou should be a as much
of a tech expert as youcan be, at least know
what's out there and what'savailable and what's coming.
And the third area clearly is leadership.
The leadership that's requiredtoday to lead not just here
(06:59):
in 2022, but also in 2025and 2030 is very different
than the leadership thatwas in place just two
or three years ago prior to the pandemic.
For example, now there's much more
of a focus on empatheticlistening skill and empathetic
capability in generalemotional intelligence.
This idea that I have called decompression
which is where we as leadershave to understand when people
(07:20):
around us are burned, areburned out and they need
those leaders need tobe able to grab people
by their shirt collar and pull them
up out of their screens to refocus
on what's important tothe world around them.
And I call that decompression.
'Cause to me it's like a diver coming up
from the deep right?
You come up and you getre align with the horizon.
(07:41):
So leaders today aren't thinking
that they need to even deploy that skill
but it's gonna be required in the future.
There's no doubt about it.
This entire world of whata leader did yesterday
versus what a leaderwill need to do tomorrow
is radically different.
And in the human resources thing,
space I think is thething that is actually
changing the fastestbecause successful leaders
(08:02):
of tomorrow don't look
like the ones that areeven sitting here today.
- I'm always amazed atthe way Gen Z is starting
to challenge how we work,especially in the HR space.
You know, we joke about Gen Z coming
in the door and in thefirst 90 days being like,
"Okay, can I get promoted now?"
But there's some truth to that.
There's some truth to, Iwanna know my career path
(08:25):
and I wanna know exactly how I get there
so I can work towards that.
How have you seen that influencehow CHROs are partnering
with business leaders to say,we need to be more authentic
we need to be more transparent
we need to share more with our employees.
- Yeah, I absolutely love this generation
of young folks who are coming in because
they are in many ways representing
(08:47):
what every generation prior
to them wanted in the workplace.
They're just brave enoughto ask for it, right?
So I absolutely love that.
They're also incredibly informed,they're digital natives.
They've had all the knowledgeand information available
to them from a technologicalperspective as long
as they had a wireless signal on a device
for most of their lives.
That also is unlike anygeneration prior to them.
(09:08):
But you're right.
And what your question suggests
is that that will set new standards
in the workplace that we arenot yet prepared to deal with.
That means immediacy, first of all
immediacy in feedback,immediacy in response
and immediacy in the way you communicate.
We also know from this generation
that the when it's important to them,
(09:30):
they still prefer tocommunicate with us face-to-face
but when it's routine or something that's
that they consider justto be part of the norm
then the best way for to communicate
with those folks is digitally
or through some othertype of electronic means.
So we as leaders probablyaren't thinking like that yet.
Yeah. In the workplace.
(09:51):
And nor do we have thetooling and the capability
to really help thoseindividuals become successful
because we're still thinking
about career ladders anddoing time before that.
You get, you know, there'sthat there's something to do
with tenure in your success trail.
And these folks, youngerfolks don't think that way
nor have they ever beenrequired to think that way.
(10:12):
Remember, this is a generationthat responds to likes.
They are validated by thefact that they post something
they do something, they getan instantaneous feedback.
I know in my own household
I'm raising four of these GenZ folks in my own household.
I got into a conversation
with one of my children about the likes
(10:34):
and how fast people respondto that and I got X number
of likes on something that was posted.
I'm like, who cares?
But it's important to them, right?
Because that's how they're validated.
And we in the working worldhaven't yet figured out
that validation for the workplace.
- It's an exciting data point
for HCM's to be payingattention to how you build
(10:55):
that likes into, or your social pieces
into your HCM and-- Absolutely.
- And how you're leveraging technology.
So that's really exciting.
You know, as I wrap up my conversation,
one question I have for you is
what new roles do youthink are gonna be showing
up in HR that we haven't seen before?
- A lot of it's gonna bedriven by the social scientist.
You know, if I were startingall over my career right now
(11:16):
I would probably go and study sociology
or cultural anthropology or psychology
because the impact ofwhat we've all experienced
in the last two to three years
we don't yet know what thatmeans in the workplace.
We think we have some good ideas.
We're seeing it show upin very sad ways right now
in our society with thehigh rates of mental health
(11:37):
or maybe I should say lack of mental
wellness in the workplace.
And those survey numbers
whenever you talk aboutthose types of things
are actually gettingworse, not better still.
So it's time for us to readdress
and rethink about howwe build solution sets
and build workplaces that are inclusive
and more that peoplehave a sense of belonging
(11:58):
where it's okay to bringyour whole self to work
and to to be who you arewhen you arrive there.
That's a work in progressfor most employers today.
So we'll get there.
I have absolute faith and knowledge
and I want to focus very much on ensuring
that Gen Z can contribute tothe workforce of the future
what they're capable of giving to us.
Because they are shapingalready the workplace
(12:21):
not just in the UnitedStates, but around the world.
And it's gonna be fun towatch this happen, right?
As human capital leaders as CHRO.
I can't wait to continue
on this journey watchingthese young folks come in
and just absolutelychange the way the rest
of us think about work.
- Yeah, I completely agree.
I have kids who are in their teens now too
(12:42):
so I'm excited to seewhat they're gonna do
for the world around us.
So thanks for taking a fewminutes of your day, Jim.
- Thank you, Shari.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task
of today so you can focus moreon the promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit atopic or appear as a guest
(13:03):
on a future episode, email usat pctytalks@paylocity.com.
(soft music)
(tranquil music)
(00:05):
- Hey, and welcome to PCTY Talks.
I'm your host, Shari Simpson.
During our time together,we'll stay close to the news
and info you need to succeed as an HR pro.
And together we'llexplore topics around HR
thought leadership,compliance, and real life HR
situations we face every day.
(upbeat music)
(00:28):
Joining me on the podcasttoday is Jim from SHRM.
He is their Chief Human Resource Officer
and so excited to sit down and spend
a few minutes with you Jim.
- Thank you Shari. Hi,it's nice to be here.
- So I wanted to start with, you know
you have a really uniqueperspective being CHRO
in a HR organization, kind of like my role
(00:50):
in an HCM organization.
You know, we gotta get to be HR for HR.
And so from yourperspective, how has the role
of the CHRO changed inthe last couple years?
- Well, COVID changedso many things that were
already starting to change prior to 2020.
I really saw a lot of focus on flexibility
(01:12):
and agility and individualizationand personalization
as it relates to thehuman resources space.
It wasn't that long ago thatwe were all taught to believe
that it was a one sizefits all solution set,
and boy those days are gone.
So the idea of flexibility,agility certainly
moved forward 15 to 20 yearsin the space of 24 months.
(01:33):
And that will forever changethe way human resources
and human capital and even thelabor force itself is viewed.
And we'll change how that things get done
in the way organizations respond
to people who are out there looking
for work and trying to make things happen.
They just are not gonna do it
in the way that they did prior.
- You know, I had JohnnyC. Taylor on last year
(01:55):
right when his book cameout talking about reset.
And it was such an exciting topic
for me because I think, you know
the sky's the limit when itcomes to HR for so many years
we talked about havinga seat at the table,
having a seat at the table,
and now it's like we're at the table.
Are we showing up?
Are we coming to the tablethe same way our business
counterparts are coming to the table?
How have you seen CHROs change their focus
(02:17):
and how they show up at that table now?
- Yeah, it's very much moredriven from a business acumen
and what I call numericalreasoning skillset
than it ever has been in the past.
So the types of people that I'm hiring now
into the human resources spacedo not have the same skills
that those did just 5, 6, 7 years ago.
The folks I'm hiring noware much more focused
on analytical reasoning skills,
(02:40):
on critical thinking capability
of being business peoplewho happen to specialize
in the art and science of human capital.
And I like hiring those kinds of people
because they can take all ofthe things that are associated
with the business of human capital
and put it into sucha format in such a way
that business leaders who are sitting
at the table who speak
(03:01):
in numerics can understand that language.
And that's just a lot
of fun to watch and towitness and to experience.
But it's also very, very important that
if you are get that seat at the table
that the way that you maintainthat seat at the table
is by clearly articulatingthe science and art of numbers
just presented from a human capital lens.
(03:22):
- So what do you say
to those HR peoplelistening who are like, yeah
I just got in HR cause I wanna work
with people and I'm not good with numbers.
- I would encourage them to think
about what that means for their career
because there are plentyof people's science
and people oriented professions out there
and human resources iscertainly one of them.
But the way to stardom inthe human resources space
(03:46):
is by having a great understandingof business analytics,
business intelligence,numbers, and other analytics.
What you can do with thatthough is if you are a person
who wants to be a recruiterthen get very, very good
at the business of human talentacquisition numbers, right?
And think about the funneland the way people come in
(04:07):
and you can put thatinto a numerical context
and a numerical way of thinking.
It does mean you haveto understand exactly
how the business works.
It doesn't mean you haveto understand exactly
how recruiting works inthat particular space.
- So what advice do you giveto those that are either newer
in their career andwanting to kind of move up?
I use ladder loosely 'causeI feel like, you know
careers are lattices now,not necessarily ladders
(04:29):
but you know, they want tobe that to that CHR role.
Sometime they want to be in that CHR role
at some point in their career
and maybe they don't havethis current skillset.
How do they start to flexthat muscle and learn more
about using data to accomplish things
they wanna do with talent?
(04:50):
- The most introspective,fully capable people
I'm bumping into this thesedays, are lifelong learners.
And because they're lifelong learners,
they are constantlyinnovating they're constantly
looking for a different answer.
And sometimes the bestanswer might be the one
that's right in front of you,
but if you don't go through that science
(05:10):
of determining what the best outcome
is then you might have missed something.
So I like people whohave that natural innate
ability to learn and for whom that is part
of their DNA and part of their culture.
I also think there arethree things that people
in the future are gonna be focused on who
are going to be effectivehuman capital leaders
be they see PO's or sees HRO's
(05:31):
or whatever that title might be.
The first one of thosethings, very, very obviously
is the idea that you needto understand talent,
tech and leadership.
Those are the three things
where I would be investing my money
if I were a young humanresources professional now
who wanted to be a moresenior HR professional
in the future.
(05:52):
Talent it's all about that,you mentioned it already
the great reset, the great reshuffle.
I actually think it'sthe great reconciliation
because what people are trying to come
to terms with is are theywilling to put in the time,
energy and have thefortitude that they need
in order to be successful?
If not, and they don't feellike that they're getting that
from their employer,then that balance is off.
(06:13):
And so is that a reset, areshuffle, reconciliation?
I don't know what it is, it'ssome reword somewhere, right?
But the idea is thatthere has to be a balance
between what you're willing to put in
and what you're willing to getback or what you do get back.
So I'm very excited
about that opportunity aroundtalent and what talent means.
Tech is just that if wein the human capital space
(06:34):
don't understand the technologythat's available to us
particularly HCM typecompanies and organizations
which you guys should know allabout, then we're in trouble.
So I am a big believer thatyou should be a as much
of a tech expert as youcan be, at least know
what's out there and what'savailable and what's coming.
And the third area clearly is leadership.
The leadership that's requiredtoday to lead not just here
(06:59):
in 2022, but also in 2025and 2030 is very different
than the leadership thatwas in place just two
or three years ago prior to the pandemic.
For example, now there's much more
of a focus on empatheticlistening skill and empathetic
capability in generalemotional intelligence.
This idea that I have called decompression
which is where we as leadershave to understand when people
(07:20):
around us are burned, areburned out and they need
those leaders need tobe able to grab people
by their shirt collar and pull them
up out of their screens to refocus
on what's important tothe world around them.
And I call that decompression.
'Cause to me it's like a diver coming up
from the deep right?
You come up and you getre align with the horizon.
(07:41):
So leaders today aren't thinking
that they need to even deploy that skill
but it's gonna be required in the future.
There's no doubt about it.
This entire world of whata leader did yesterday
versus what a leaderwill need to do tomorrow
is radically different.
And in the human resources thing,
space I think is thething that is actually
changing the fastestbecause successful leaders
(08:02):
of tomorrow don't look
like the ones that areeven sitting here today.
- I'm always amazed atthe way Gen Z is starting
to challenge how we work,especially in the HR space.
You know, we joke about Gen Z coming
in the door and in thefirst 90 days being like,
"Okay, can I get promoted now?"
But there's some truth to that.
There's some truth to, Iwanna know my career path
(08:25):
and I wanna know exactly how I get there
so I can work towards that.
How have you seen that influencehow CHROs are partnering
with business leaders to say,we need to be more authentic
we need to be more transparent
we need to share more with our employees.
- Yeah, I absolutely love this generation
of young folks who are coming in because
they are in many ways representing
(08:47):
what every generation prior
to them wanted in the workplace.
They're just brave enoughto ask for it, right?
So I absolutely love that.
They're also incredibly informed,they're digital natives.
They've had all the knowledgeand information available
to them from a technologicalperspective as long
as they had a wireless signal on a device
for most of their lives.
That also is unlike anygeneration prior to them.
(09:08):
But you're right.
And what your question suggests
is that that will set new standards
in the workplace that we arenot yet prepared to deal with.
That means immediacy, first of all
immediacy in feedback,immediacy in response
and immediacy in the way you communicate.
We also know from this generation
that the when it's important to them,
(09:30):
they still prefer tocommunicate with us face-to-face
but when it's routine or something that's
that they consider justto be part of the norm
then the best way for to communicate
with those folks is digitally
or through some othertype of electronic means.
So we as leaders probablyaren't thinking like that yet.
Yeah. In the workplace.
(09:51):
And nor do we have thetooling and the capability
to really help thoseindividuals become successful
because we're still thinking
about career ladders anddoing time before that.
You get, you know, there'sthat there's something to do
with tenure in your success trail.
And these folks, youngerfolks don't think that way
nor have they ever beenrequired to think that way.
(10:12):
Remember, this is a generationthat responds to likes.
They are validated by thefact that they post something
they do something, they getan instantaneous feedback.
I know in my own household
I'm raising four of these GenZ folks in my own household.
I got into a conversation
with one of my children about the likes
(10:34):
and how fast people respondto that and I got X number
of likes on something that was posted.
I'm like, who cares?
But it's important to them, right?
Because that's how they're validated.
And we in the working worldhaven't yet figured out
that validation for the workplace.
- It's an exciting data point
for HCM's to be payingattention to how you build
(10:55):
that likes into, or your social pieces
into your HCM and-- Absolutely.
- And how you're leveraging technology.
So that's really exciting.
You know, as I wrap up my conversation,
one question I have for you is
what new roles do youthink are gonna be showing
up in HR that we haven't seen before?
- A lot of it's gonna bedriven by the social scientist.
You know, if I were startingall over my career right now
(11:16):
I would probably go and study sociology
or cultural anthropology or psychology
because the impact ofwhat we've all experienced
in the last two to three years
we don't yet know what thatmeans in the workplace.
We think we have some good ideas.
We're seeing it show upin very sad ways right now
in our society with thehigh rates of mental health
(11:37):
or maybe I should say lack of mental
wellness in the workplace.
And those survey numbers
whenever you talk aboutthose types of things
are actually gettingworse, not better still.
So it's time for us to readdress
and rethink about howwe build solution sets
and build workplaces that are inclusive
and more that peoplehave a sense of belonging
(11:58):
where it's okay to bringyour whole self to work
and to to be who you arewhen you arrive there.
That's a work in progressfor most employers today.
So we'll get there.
I have absolute faith and knowledge
and I want to focus very much on ensuring
that Gen Z can contribute tothe workforce of the future
what they're capable of giving to us.
Because they are shapingalready the workplace
(12:21):
not just in the UnitedStates, but around the world.
And it's gonna be fun towatch this happen, right?
As human capital leaders as CHRO.
I can't wait to continue
on this journey watchingthese young folks come in
and just absolutelychange the way the rest
of us think about work.
- Yeah, I completely agree.
I have kids who are in their teens now too
(12:42):
so I'm excited to seewhat they're gonna do
for the world around us.
So thanks for taking a fewminutes of your day, Jim.
- Thank you, Shari.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
- This podcast is broughtto you by Paylocity
a leading HCM provider thatfrees you from the task
of today so you can focus moreon the promise of tomorrow.
If you'd like to submit atopic or appear as a guest
(13:03):
on a future episode, email usat pctytalks@paylocity.com.
(soft music)
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!