August 1, 2025 • 48 mins
What makes art resonate- technique, truth, or something we can’t quite name?
In this intimate episode of Peace & Good Wealth, host Loy Carlos sits down with celebrated sculptor and cultural curator Leah Poller, whose figurative work delves into the energy that connects artist, object, and observer.
Trained at the École des Beaux-Arts in Paris and known for her iconic Bed Series and Warrior Women sculptures, Poller reflects on her decades-long journey across continents, mediums, and mindsets. From forging a life as an artist and mother in post-1960s Paris, to collaborating with monumental foundries in China, to quietly championing the dignity of the “ordinary woman,” her story is one of discipline, disruption, and devotion to truth.
Together, they explore:
- The alchemy of turning energy into form
- The spiritual anatomy of a sculpted portrait
- How culture, not commerce, should define the value of art
- Why good art- like good wealth- transforms the one who holds it
At once poetic and practical, Leah reminds us that true art doesn’t just decorate a space- it dignifies the soul.
Explore Leah's work: https://leahpoller.com/
https://www.instagram.com/nsglobalwealth/
https://www.officeofglobalwealth.com
--
Credits:
Loy Carlos (Host)
Kenneth J. Moore (Executive Producer)
Colin Meagley (Producer)
Perry Law (Producer)
Dieter Borbeck (Production Assitant)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
This is peace and good wealth.
(00:25):
Hello everyone and welcome backto Peace and Good Wealth.
This is Loy Carlos, your host,and today we have a very special
guest.
Leah Pollard is a celebratedsculptor and cultural curator
whose work explores theintersection of inner peace,
identity, and creativeabundance.
(00:46):
Trained at the Ecole desBeaux-Arts in Paris, and known
for her acclaimed bed series andwarrior women portraits, Paula
uses figurative sculpture toreflect the psychology of self
and society.
Her art has been exhibitedglobally from Beijing to Mexico
City, and she has curated over140 exhibitions across five
continents.
(01:07):
Through her work, Paula remindsus that true wealth begins with
understanding, expression, andthe courage to lay ourselves
bare.
Welcome, Lea.
How are you today?
I'm
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
so flattered to be here, and thank you.
Thank you for that lovelyintroduction.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
I messed up a little bit of Ecole des Beaux-Arts in
Paris.
But I wanted to make sure that Ipronounce it a little bit better
than usual.
But let's start there.
Education-wise, you went toschool in Paris.
(01:42):
How much of that influenceObviously, there's a discipline,
the scholarly discipline thatyou learn in school.
But how much of being in Parisinfluenced sort of the way you
look at your work?
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
That's a wonderful question to start with, because
I often say that my life beganwhen I moved to France with my
three children.
little children and started thesecond part of my life.
And my education at the BeauxArts in Paris began with a
baptism by fire.
(02:23):
The professor literallyexcoriated me and almost threw
me out of the first sculptureclass.
And later we became very, veryclose friends.
And I said to him, why did youdo that to me?
Why did you make it so hard?
And he said, you didn't have anytime to waste.
You needed to know, was this forreal or not?
(02:43):
And so it impacted me.
A thousand percent.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
And you said that was the second part of your
life.
What year, more or less, wasthis when you first started?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Oh, in the mid-70s, I got to
SPEAKER_02 (02:55):
France.
And France has changed since,and so has New York, from the
1970s to where it is now.
Tell us a little bit of a flavorof what it was living there with
three children at that time,taking up art.
What was Paris like back then?
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
The only expats that were really in Paris at that
time either were working for thegovernment, for large
corporations, or with religiousinstitutions.
And so I was the real one out.
There was nobody like me around.
And, of course, the fact thattaxis wouldn't take four people,
(03:34):
we were on foot a lot and in thesubways a lot, and that got a
lot of attention from people.
I went to Paris regularly.
Accidentally, almost.
I went for three months and Istayed for 23 years.
Wow.
So
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
Paris at that time, how did you decide?
Did you decide during thosethree months that we already
decided that you're going tostudy art?
Or was that something that wasalso not planned
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
at the time?
Not at all.
Not at all.
I was trying to figure out howto survive.
I had just sold my last home inMiami, was going through a
divorce, had literally nothingand ended up in Paris and felt
that it was a place I could makesomething happen for myself.
Yes.
(04:26):
And the art part came a fewyears later where I got to
realize my dream.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Where did you begin, you know?
Artists, a lot of the artists,you know, start from a very
young age and they've dreamtabout being, you know, artists.
Some transition in adulthood,but they've always had some sort
of idea.
When you were studying, when youpicked up art...
(04:50):
sculpture was not the firstthing that you started to
explore, right?
Did you explore painting and anyother forms of art before you
went to sculpture?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Yes, because I was always hands-on in my earlier
days, raising a family betweensewing and knitting and cooking
and decorating and gardening,all these things that you do
physically.
I had a very physicalrelationship to art, but I
wanted to be a painter.
And I love color.
(05:23):
So when I started at theBeaux-Arts, I started in the
painting class.
And there was this constant urgeto just push the brush through
the canvas.
I had to really hold myselfback.
And then I always felt that thebrushes were very long.
I didn't know if I could shortenthat distance.
So after about four months inthe painting class, the
professor came over and said tome very kindly, Soleil, that art
(05:46):
school you went to in America,did they teach you how to hold a
brush?
So I said, oops, he got me onthat one.
And so I drifted into thesculpture class and said, maybe
if I get my hands on thematerial, that would work.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
So let's talk about the creative process.
What's the difference between,or is there any difference
between the creative processwhen you're painting versus when
you sculpt?
Where do you begin?
In both cases, you start with ablank canvas, right?
(06:23):
Either you're a block of stoneor metal or, you know,
everything is blank and thenform comes out of that.
Is there, what do you think, youknow, for you, is there a
difference other than thephysical process of doing it?
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
You know, they often ask the question about art being
contemporary and I say it can'tbe anything contemporary.
except contemporary, because theartist is living there at that
moment doing the thing.
And so you can't leave yourselfout of that equation.
You bring with you a lot of yourpersonal experiences, a lot of
(07:01):
your subconscious thoughts, andthen things trigger you, which
is exactly how the bed seriesstarted that was triggered.
The process itself, where you'rein an environment that is
conducive to digging deep, andat the Beaux-Arts in France, we
dealt a lot with the history andthe past, so kind of building on
(07:24):
the shoulders of these very,very famous artists.
Some were still alive.
Some were still walking throughthe hallways.
And at the time, it was sostrange.
I didn't say, oh, my goodness,I'm sitting in the same seat in
this café.
that Jean-Paul Sartre sat in,but I did.
So by osmosis and by thefrequentation, the fabulous
(07:46):
museum exhibitions, yeah, it wasa total bath.
SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
How much of knowing the history and what of art is
important in the way you create?
Some people will argue thatthere is something about going
to school for art.
and understanding the principlesand the history that makes for a
(08:13):
much more profound, rounderartist than somebody who has
not.
How much of that you think isimportant if somebody wanted to
really be an artist?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
In other countries and in other cultures, and
perhaps because they havethousands of years of culture
behind them, and that was builton their knowing of the thousand
years before them, take greatpride and spend a lot of time
and interest in the past so thatyou can then incorporate that in
(08:46):
where you are in your present.
It's hard to just free fall andsay I'm here and I'm gonna just
do hotchky-potchky with my handsand make something happen.
So we got really serioustraining and sometimes I have to
find an analogy and say, oh, mygoodness, you have a problem in
(09:09):
your brain.
You need surgery.
Oh, I'm going to get somebodywho never studied, but he knows
he can take that knife and goafter that little thing in my
brain.
It's the same thing.
With sculpture, you absolutelyneed to learn how to sculpt.
Then you can do what you want.
And we always say Picasso is theperfect example of that lesson.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
And there are, I mean, through, we're talking
about, you know, masters.
Masters also haveapprenticeships.
And a lot of them studied, notnecessarily to copy the masters,
but to know the principles andthe techniques so that when they
then in turn interpret or createart on their own, that they have
(09:50):
that basic foundation forcreating art.
Now, art is a little bitdifficult because you know, what
somebody sees in something isn'tnecessarily what somebody sees
in another.
So it's a little bit easier whenwe're looking at maybe
portraiture, you know, inpaintings where, okay, well,
(10:10):
this person looks like that realperson.
You know, this painting lookslike that real person.
And you might say, well, thatmight be good art, that may not
be.
But when we talked about art atyour lovely home, we talked
about the energy of art.
Okay.
(10:30):
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
We were saying that you weresaying that there's certain
pieces, you know, or pieces ofart have their own energy.
And some of them are reallypowerful, which now is what we
call, you know, maybe a masterart or a great work of art
because people are drawn to thembecause of the energy that they
(10:53):
have.
So How does that come about?
Is it the artist that's creatingthis because of technique, or is
it a combination of what theartist puts into it that comes
out as the energy of that pieceof work?
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
Well, you know, very fortunately at this stage of my
art practice, I've become...
more interested in science thanin quantum physics.
And you learn very quickly thatwe are just energy in fields of
energy.
And it's kind of matched one ofthe ways I understood what I was
(11:30):
doing in three dimensions, whichwas harnessing energy and
pushing away the extraneouselements so that I would be left
with the core.
So I guess it's a little bitlike getting uranium for a bomb.
You want all that energy.
You want it compressed.
And if you don't put it in, it'svery hard to get it out.
(11:52):
The art that I feel has been themost significant across all
borders, all cultures is artthat has in it that energy.
There's a role that theobserver, the beholder has with
the work of art.
When you stand in front of awork of art, you give your
(12:14):
energy to the art.
You start looking at things andthat energy is kind of goes in a
circuitous fashion.
It bounces back and forth andback and forth.
So these masterpieces that welove so much, they're capturing
energy from the people lookingat them.
I've always felt that one of thesaddest things is to create so
much art and never have it beseen.
(12:35):
It needs to be seen to be alive.
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
Well, I think I guess that's what it means when
we say, you know, If I pick up asculpture or a painting, it's
because this particular piece ofart speaks to me or this
particular photograph speaks tome as well.
Now, a lot of artists also talkabout when they're creating that
(13:03):
there is this process of tappinginto the ether somehow.
You don't really know whatyou're creating, but somehow you
tap into this process stream ofconsciousness in the universe
and it manifests itself in theart that you create and I think
that's a beautiful thing I knowfor me when I'm writing
something I'm not really fullyaware of what that writing is
(13:25):
until I'm finished and then Ilook back at it and I say wow I
didn't even think that that wasthe case or even painting it's
sort of like the same way nowsculpture is a long process it's
not so So how patient do youhave to be to get to the point
(13:46):
where you know...
Well, first of all, how do youknow when a particular piece of
art is finished?
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
Oh, I wish.
I wish.
You know, sometimes they leavethe studio and you say, just
give me another couple of weeks.
I really think I could have donebetter with another couple of
weeks.
But...
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
But they have their own endings, don't they?
It's the funny part.
They don't have to be perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Okay, so I think of it perhaps in a very plebeian
way.
It's my job.
I decided that I would workmaterials and make sculptures
from these materials.
So it's what I do.
And the goal, of course, is todo something good enough,
interesting enough, personalenough that...
(14:35):
A person who looks at it will betouched by it.
They'll be moved by it.
They'll be inspired by it.
They will have something shiftwithin themselves, often in a
very deep and personal placethat they too can't explain
exactly.
But there's that connection.
That's what you're hoping toestablish.
I don't think that any piece isfinished.
(14:56):
I always think of the work as abridge.
I'm just building a bridge tillone day somebody's going to look
at it over my dead shoulder andsay, well, I guess that meant
this, or it meant that, or shewas thinking this.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's the mystery of it.
If it were less mysterious, itwould be boring to
SPEAKER_02 (15:14):
me.
Are all objects art?
Let's put it that way.
Or...
Or is there art that we candefine?
For whatever reason, we as humanbeings feel like, I think most
of us, feel like there arecertain forms that we know,
okay, this is art.
(15:35):
It even could be the smallestthing.
It could be the oldest thing.
It could be the newest thing.
But we feel that that's art.
Now, some are similar objects,but they don't seem to feel like
they're art.
They're just decorations.
Or is there any difference?
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
Well, I'll give you an example of something that
happened to me maybe the secondor third year that I was in
Paris.
It was a beautiful day.
The sun was shining.
I was going to take the bus, andI look up, and on the glass wall
of the bus, I see this patchthat is iridescent and
(16:11):
translucent and gold and yellowand crackly, and it's absolutely
stunning, like a Pompeianmosaic.
And then I look and I say, oh,my goodness, somebody threw an
egg against the bus stand and itdried there.
But I'm in a city that has somuch aesthetic that is so
incredibly beautiful that youreyes get used to looking for the
(16:34):
beauty in things.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
Yeah.
So there's beauty everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
Well, I think that's that's you know, I always talk
about Italy this way, that even,you know, when you're in Italy,
even the the the.
garbage when they throw it out.
They arranged it in a way that'skind of beautiful.
And I think it's part of theculture, right?
(16:59):
There is a love for life andbeauty amongst Italians.
And if you're surrounded bythat, everything seems to be
colored by that aspect of theculture.
But I have to say also that Ihave a friend, it might take an
artistic eye to spot somethingthat beautiful.
(17:21):
Because I have a friend whotakes photographs and I say this
as an example a lot, that if youtook a photograph of gum on the
street, it would be artistic.
If I took that same photograph,it would just be gum on the
street, right?
There is a certain eye, forwhatever reason, And maybe, as
you say, a certain energy thatone infuses into the work that
(17:44):
then turns it into somethingmuch more magnificent than a
piece of gum on the street.
So let's talk about when youhave portraiture in your
sculptures.
Most people, well, a lot ofpeople that we know, when they
(18:05):
take up sculpture, they go intomore the abstract part of it.
Is there a difference in termsof discipline and technique or
is the process the same?
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Well, interestingly enough, when I was in school at
the Beaux-Arts, we had livemodels.
We drew from the live models andwe also sculpted from live
models.
And I'll never forget that wehad a model that was maybe 21
years old and perfect body andwonderful, you could put her on
(18:40):
a catwalk and she would beperfect.
And the whole class kind of gotlistless and bored and turned
away from the subject.
And then we got a model that hadbeen ravaged by time.
Her body was absolutely aroadmap for what she had been
through.
And there was nobody that wasn'ttotally, totally engaged in
(19:02):
capturing what this womanrepresented.
And once I started doing workwith the human form, it was the,
I would say, the only thing youwould not want to do if you
wanted to have a successfulcareer and sell a lot of work,
because America had moved toabstract expressionism, op art,
(19:23):
pop art, installation art,everything that was not to do
with the human form.
And yet, it's what we are.
We all are people, and we carrythese bodies around with us.
Our eyes speak to you.
You sit in the subway.
When I came here, there was alittle girl, and she was
probably six months old, andshe's flirting with me with her
(19:43):
eyes.
So the human form for me issomething I'm very attached to,
very sensitive of.
And when I sculpt a person, myidea is not to sculpt them
literally, but to sculpt themspiritually.
Where does their spirit reside?
Where is their soul?
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
So we were talking about that, the essence of the
humanity of whoever they are,which are reflected, you know,
we talked about the Mona Lisa,you know, La Giaconda, you know,
it's that, half smile thatcaptures us.
It's not because she's sobeautiful and she's so
(20:21):
wonderful, you know, because sheis.
And it's not even, you know,because of the greatest
technique in the painting,because a lot of it we don't
even see because it's beencovered through, you know, years
of time.
But that particular expressionis the essence of who she is.
Now, there are very famoussculptors like Rodin and Mayol
(20:45):
and Mayol being being one of myfavorites, how many more women
could you capture in statues?
But they're all differentbecause they have their own
different essence.
If you have to describe yourportraiture to somebody, what
(21:12):
would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Okay, a little earlier you prompted a thought
that reminded me of when I knewthat I could make a sculpture by
Lea Pollard.
The big concern is that you'regoing to do something that's
overly influenced by a famousartist or that you're going to
copy something or that'll bederivative.
And that's a big hole to fallinto.
(21:37):
That's one of the reasons whyart history is so important.
You see what has been doneeverywhere.
before you.
So I did an exercise.
I took a magazine.
I closed my eyes.
I tore out half a dozen pagesarbitrarily.
I pinned them on my studio wall,and I made a sculpture based on
what I saw in these pages from amagazine.
(21:58):
And then I looked at it, and Isaid, okay, would you know that
that was something that I did?
And the answer was, yeah, nobodyelse would have done it that
way.
So from that point on, Irealized that I did have my
signature.
SPEAKER_02 (22:10):
What is that signature in your eyes?
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
Truth.
Digging, digging for the truth,the honesty, the veracity of the
situation.
You know, when I work with alive model on a portrait, we
spend a lot of time talking.
We talk, we examine each otherto the point where there's a
transference of trust.
And as the person is wanderingaround the studio, because I
(22:38):
don't ask anybody to sit stillso I can get the perfect
profile, I just want theirpresence so that I can just
check it out and feel them.
Something happens, and thesculpture itself starts to
breathe.
SPEAKER_02 (22:55):
And it comes out, I think...
artists would say, whetheryou're a photographer or a
painter, there's a certain thingthat comes out that isn't
necessarily a physical thing.
But when we see it as humanbeings, we identify it.
That is that person.
(23:16):
And that is that artist who madethis type of thing.
Now, you had...
Let's talk about women for asecond.
You've taken on...
different topics on women,aging, womanhood, sensuality.
(23:37):
What stories do you feel remainto be told in women's place in
art?
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
Okay, that's a perfect segue.
You know, I work in reallysupporting women in the arts, As
a woman in the arts and havinghad a gallery, having sold a lot
of art, I feel that it's veryimportant to put some energy
behind a segment that has beenunder-respected.
(24:10):
We've seen changes now.
But the one thing that I amyearning for, the one thing that
has never been put on apedestal, is the person who has
a normal life and performs thefunctions of a totally not
average existence because it'sgetting more and more rare to
(24:32):
function at all those levels.
But you feed your children.
You know how many female artistshave been revered because they
abandoned their children or theycouldn't have the conflict of
raising children or they had adifferent lifestyle that would
not permit what I call a normalexistence, an existence that
most everybody can relate to.
(24:54):
So it is possible to be a normalperson.
You don't have to be the VanGogh crazy.
You don't have to cut off yourear.
You don't have to have greenhair.
You can just be a normal persondoing a really fine, fine job at
what you've chosen.
SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
Well, I think the difficulty that we have is that
human beings have a tendency tolabel.
know people label things soyou're either an artist or
you're not an artist or you'reyou're a woman you know women um
cannot have it all but men canhave it all for whatever reason
(25:34):
which is you know sort of likeinteresting a man can be a both
a father a good father um a goodhorseback rider or athlete and a
good chef and a smartbusinessman and they can have it
all and have children and all ofthose things.
But women can't.
Women had to have choicesbecause their positions, I would
(25:57):
argue, their positions werelimited.
They were limited to either thisor that.
It can't be both of them.
And so somebody who does...
All of the ordinary, seeminglyordinary things in life cannot
possibly be extraordinary,right?
You can't be both, right?
(26:18):
So you couldn't be a good motherand a wonderful artist and a
great dancer and all of thosethings as well.
But women have, I think, forgedon as best as we can, but I
think they're stillunderrepresented in art, don't
you think?
UNKNOWN (26:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
The amount of people, we know male artists, we
can identify male artistsquicker than we can identify
female artists, I would argue.
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah, well, the statistics speak for themselves.
I'm involved with the New YorkSociety of Women Artists, and we
just celebrated our centennial.
And we have to look at thefacts.
The facts are that more than 50%of artists, declared artists,
are female.
Only 2% make it to an auction atSotheby's.
(27:09):
Only 10% get into museums atall.
And as soon as the identity isknown, the chances drop more and
more and more.
But getting back to when I wasin school, my professor did not
give us false expectations.
He said, you become a sculptorMaybe after 25 years, you know
(27:31):
how to sculpt.
It's slow, and you have to do alot to be able to learn those
lessons.
And it's not for you to sayyou're an artist.
Let other people say that.
I say I sculpt.
You say I'm an artist.
I accept that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Well, that's the trinity, right?
Anybody can write, I suppose.
But the writer puts out thework, and if people read them,
then you're a writer.
If people don't want to readthem, then you're still a
writer, but you're notnecessarily at the level of the
people that we revere as goodartists that write poetry.
(28:11):
Anybody can write poetry.
But I think to have thatconnection with another human
being is what's important aboutthe art.
Now, having said that, we talkedabout artificial intelligence
sort of like coming into play.
And whether, you know, thecreation of a particular object
(28:34):
becomes art, even if it's notmade by a human being.
Now, perhaps, you know, if it'senergy, if art is energy, then
maybe it doesn't matter thatit's a human being.
But in my mind, there's alsothat sort of, when you are
sculpting a portrait of a model,there is a connection that I can
(28:59):
see when I'm looking at it thatrelates to you and the model.
So it's sort of that, you know,that thing, or is that even,
does that even really matter,having that connection between
human beings to create art?
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
Pixels on a screen are not brushstrokes.
You perhaps can get a lot ofideas by using artificial
intelligence.
You can prepare, you can movethings around easier, you can
come to other considerationsfrom the multitude of
possibilities that are availablewith AI.
(29:36):
But it's a little bit likeeating a McDonald's and having
something made by a four-starchef.
The love that goes into it, thepassion, the commitment, you can
taste it.
And I think that if you look atart enough, it's not just colors
and squares you put on walls.
It actually informs your very,very sense of being alive when
(30:00):
you wake up in the morning.
I remember I had a wonderful,wonderful painting behind my
bed.
And I was requested for a museumexhibition.
And so I loaned it to the museumfor six months.
And every time I walked in thebedroom, the hole, that space
with nothing in it behind my bedwas so huge that it actually
(30:21):
kind of hurt.
And I couldn't wait for thepiece to come back and put it in
its rightful place.
So I think that each and everyartwork is unique.
How you relate to it is unique.
And how much you choose to be inthat space commitment of
existence of being present tohow you feel and what you see
and there's some wonderful booksout there I could recommend some
(30:44):
but one there was actually adiscussion on the science of
what we see and the fact is wedon't see we extrapolate you
only see 20% of anything I onlysee 20% of you but I met you the
other day and I can fill in allthose little pieces and say
there's Lloyd okay but You'renot there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
You're just the kind of...
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Well, that's what I was saying.
I was thinking about that thisweekend that, you know, I say
it's the impression.
You know, I was looking at thesunset and I tried to remember
it in my mind's eye.
And...
All I really remember is theimpression of what it was.
(31:29):
It's not everything.
The camera captures everything.
But my eyes capture theimpression of what it is.
And thank God for me, I havevery romantic eyes.
Because some things you see morebeautiful than it is, closer
than it is.
If you're looking at theskyscrapers, for instance, you
feel they're closer to you thanthe camera does.
(31:49):
And so there's a change.
But this is a nice segue toyour...
to the bed series.
So let's talk a little bit aboutwhat is the bed series?
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
It's autobiographical.
It has become autobiographicalbecause once I started it based
on a personal event, I had anaccident in my studio and I was
bedridden for an extended periodof time.
I couldn't work on anything thathad any weight to it.
I'd been using heavy materials,so I could only work on a
tabletop in my bed.
(32:23):
And I made a bed.
I made a sculpture of a bed.
It was on my mind, right?
And then I made another one, andI realized that there was a
relationship linguisticallybetween the word bed and the
object bed that I was making.
So then I sat down, I made alist, and I executed a dozen
pieces.
They went into an exhibition,and it sold out the first night.
(32:46):
And those were the days when thecell phone wasn't available.
People started to call me andgive me words with bed in it.
So I said, whoa, this isinteresting.
I made a first list and therewere over a hundred beds.
And I realized that it was alinguistic form that I was
curious about.
How we transported the idea ofbedrock or riverbed or bed and
(33:08):
breakfast into our psyche anduse these words without thinking
twice when the image is a bed.
And then of course, my curiosityled me to research.
There's no materials on thesubject.
You can get information aboutcertain types of beds made at
different periods of time, but abed isn't really more than what
(33:30):
you do there.
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
It's
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
what happens that it becomes the bed, right?
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
Well, that's interesting because I also, you
know, I was thinking culturally,there are certain cultures that
don't have, they don't use beds.
You know, not in the classicalway, that we know it.
Yet there is, you know, peoplewould say like, you know, like a
(33:57):
rolled up, you know, woven matis the bed, you know, and it
becomes the bed when somebody ison it.
But there's also a certainpersonality with beds, right?
And it's a very personal thing.
Some people want it, you know, acertain way and want to look at
a certain way.
But the moment you, you know, Ifyou go on vacation, the one
(34:22):
thing that you miss most islying down in your own bed.
It
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
feels
SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
good to get home.
Yes, that's what it feels likehome.
But you have a lot of otherthings that you're working on.
Now, sculpture, bronze is adifficult material to work with.
It's
SPEAKER_00 (34:41):
not easy.
Excessively difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
And now, but you also are doing this not just,
you're doing it in Italy, right?
You just came back from Italy.
You're doing it here, obviously.
And you're also in China.
So let's talk about, is there adifference in the way people
around the world look atsculpture specifically or art in
(35:04):
general about how it's made orthe importance or the value of
it and what the future lookslike in terms of sculpture?
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
No question about it.
UNKNOWN (35:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:16):
Let's compare, let's say, the two different ones.
The Italians that are veryclassical and then the Chinese
in Beijing.
What are we seeing?
Are they in parallel directionor are they looking at it
differently?
Because you're in both worlds.
SPEAKER_00 (35:34):
I haven't had enough time in Italy to actually test
the waters to see what everybodyhas to say.
And in fact, I'm starting a newseries using...
words that have leto in them.
Leto means bed in Italian.
And guess what?
There's more than 100 words withleto in them.
So I started to work on that andusing a different material,
(35:56):
which is a material first usedin Italy and still traditionally
used in Italy and very rarelyused outside for what we would
call serious art.
I think to answer your questiona little bit more precisely when
I accidentally ended up at theworld's largest art foundry in
(36:19):
China.
This is a foundry that has 800trained employees and 80,000
square meters of studio space.
This is big.
I couldn't believe that theywould want to work with me, that
my little beds would make adifference or matter.
And I'm talking about my worknext to monuments, monuments.
(36:39):
And so at first I was a littlebit you know, scared.
I was afraid that one day theywould discover it was just a
little bed.
But as the years went by, andnow we're into 15 years of this
relationship, and we're startinganother project together, they
said something to me.
I said, why did you care aboutmy little beds when you're
(37:01):
making these monuments?
The last one they did is fivetimes taller than the Statue of
Liberty.
So it's monumental, beyondanything we do in America.
And they said, but most of thatwork is done by groups of
artists working together.
They're technical people whoexecute an object, a subject.
(37:24):
You're an artist, you create.
And they've been true to thatfrom day one.
It's been amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (37:31):
Are there apprenticeships that's going on
in China now as well?
Or is it...
I guess just like in every otherplace in the world, there are
people who like the classicalarts.
There's also the traditionalChinese art.
(37:51):
But there's also a lot ofinterest in more abstract
expressionist art among theChinese.
The collectors, at least, likemodern art.
Has art changed in Chinasince...
I guess the morecommercialization of China in
(38:15):
general, or do you feel likeit's always been there and it's
just getting bigger and biggerbecause of the opportunities?
SPEAKER_00 (38:23):
Well, I can give you two examples.
One is that a few years ago,China announced that it was
going to create 300 new artmuseums.
We're lucky if we get two ayear, and they're going to do
300 in the next five years.
Culture to them is more than2,000 years old, the Bronze Age.
(38:45):
They have bronzes in Beijing atthe temple that are 2,000 years
old, and you can't imagine whatthey were capable of executing
at that time.
But what you're seeing also,take any situation from America
and multiply it by 10.
So if you have 1,000billionaires in America, you
(39:06):
have 10,000 billionaires inChina.
And they will collect art.
And the most interesting thingis that the older generation has
declared itself somewhat lackingin knowledge and open spirit.
And so they have put theirchildren in the role of
acquiring art for the family'sheritage.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
So where do you fit in these?
Because I know you have multiplemore projects in China.
You're coming up with a reallybig one in 2026.
We talked about the taro, whichis how big is it going to be?
SPEAKER_00 (39:46):
They're going to be about two and a half meters by
four meters.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:51):
And how long do you think it would take you from
start to finish before you could
SPEAKER_00 (40:00):
exhibit?
Can I come back in a year andtell you what it took?
I'm not sure.
It's an experiment that I'mworking directly with the
Foundry on.
And I'll tell you, it came aboutthrough some unusual
circumstances and an interactionwith a master of tarot and a
philosopher who was completelyintrigued by the bronze process.
(40:21):
viewed from the alchemistryperspective.
And so he met me over in China,and we started to conjure up
some possibilities.
And we did tarot readingsmorning, noon, and night.
And so I...
presented a project to the headof the foundry to do these giant
tarot cards, but they are goingto be assemblage, and I'm going
(40:43):
to use the scraps from thefoundry.
So when you imagine the size ofwhat they normally work on, a
scrap takes two men and a craneto move into place, which is why
I can't answer your question onhow much time and what.
So The biggest, hardest part wasto convince the foundry that
with a zero waste policy, theycould sacrifice some of the
(41:06):
recovery of these materials andlet me work them and create the
tarot cards with them.
So it's an adventure.
We'll see.
SPEAKER_02 (41:14):
Well, it's certainly exciting.
Now, one last question before wego.
Is there a question that no oneever asks you that you wish
somebody would when it comes to
SPEAKER_00 (41:26):
art?
Yes, yes.
I'll be very blunt.
Why does the art market chase 2%of the world's population to
sell the same people art whentheir role should really be to
convert the 98% that is afraidto buy art into art lovers and
art buyers at every level?
(41:47):
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Well, you know, we remember what, again, we talked
about Fran Lebowitz saying thatthey applaud the price, they
don't applaud the artist.
And I think that's part ofwhat's keeping a lot of the art,
you know, could be, would be artcollectors from indulging in
art.
Because if they bought somethingfor$25...
It doesn't feel like it'svaluable art because the world
(42:12):
tells us that the$25 million oneor the$250 million one is the
one that you should covet.
And yet art is everywhere.
There's so many artists thatwhen you go to flea market,
These artisans, if you go to, Igo to Provincetown quite a bit,
(42:34):
and there used to be artiststhat are in training or they
just want to do things.
They're not very expensivepieces of work, but people look
at them as lesser art than theones that we are told are
collectible.
And so I think if we wanted toconvert the world you know, the
(42:55):
98% into art lovers and artcollectors.
We have to erase that idea thatart can only be good art if it's
expensive art.
SPEAKER_00 (43:06):
My final word would be that the language around art
and artists has to change.
The closest parallel is diamondsor petroleum.
It's a natural resource.
It's deep, deep, deep down inthe earth, if you want to call
the psyche earth.
(43:27):
And somebody has to pull it out,refine it, condition it, and put
it in a place where it can beused and applied.
And we should be using art.
to apply to culture, not toapply to price tags.
So if that language would changeand you would look at each and
every artist as you would lookat somebody who's capable of
(43:49):
transforming raw materials, it'slike a farmer.
The farmer plants the seed andyou get to eat it on your dinner
table.
Well,
SPEAKER_02 (44:00):
I think the problem that we're having is that art
isn't, you know, as we know ittoday, especially, just as in
real estate.
We used to think of real estateas a house that you lived in or
a place that you worked in.
But a lot of people think of itas an investment.
Even if they live there, theylook at it as an investment.
And art right now is beinglooked at as an investment, as a
(44:21):
form of investment, but not as afinancial investment, not as a
personal investment.
And I think what you're talkingabout is looking at art as...
deeply intrinsic to ourinvestment in the culture of
humanity, in our connection witheach other, you know, that would
allow us to appreciate, youknow, everything from everyone
(44:43):
from all over the world, justlike we do with, you know, music
and food and in all of thesethings that connected us as
human beings.
SPEAKER_00 (44:53):
We are custodians during our lifetime.
All we're doing is taking careof it.
You show me who got buried withthe Picasso in their tombstone.
I mean, the pharaohs used totake their jewelry and all, but
really.
So what does it mean that youpossess this, that it cost you
nine figures?
I don't think that's the point.
The point is that we want to becareful when we talk about the
(45:18):
art market and we want to talkabout art culture.
as culture.
And if you stomp on your cultureand you don't respect it, you
will inherit something prettysad and you'll pass something
very sad on to your heirs andyour family.
This is what I spend a lot oftime trying to defend.
(45:38):
Look at it from a differentperspective.
SPEAKER_02 (45:41):
Art is something, you know, we work very hard to,
you know, as they say, to beable to enjoy these things, art,
in all of its form, whether it'spoetry, whether it's sculpture,
whether it's paintings, youknow, that's what we enjoy
doing.
It's not something that we tradeas a commodity, you know,
(46:06):
without any other...
It's what connects all of ustogether.
It's how we identify, youknow...
the deeper thoughts that wehave, the deeper emotions, you
know, that we have is expressedthrough art, in all sorts of
forms, in music, in plays, intelevision, in, you know, all of
these things, I think, are areflection of who we are.
(46:29):
And I think that's what'sgetting lost.
You know, we keep talking aboutthe sellability of things,
sellability of movies,sellability of books,
sellability of, you know, weforget that the reason we do
them is for that connection withthat, artist?
SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
When we are in touch with ourselves, we can begin to
be in touch with art.
And they say everywhere, art isa language.
Well, learn a new language.
You will have so much richerlife because of it.
And possessing things is not thesame as the wealth.
(47:07):
Peace and good wealth, it justgoes through my head every day
when I think of how you chosethe name.
for good wealth, because I thinkthat that's something that has
been overlooked.
You should have good wealth.
SPEAKER_02 (47:22):
Not just wealth for the
SPEAKER_00 (47:23):
sake of it.
That's right.
Good wealth.
If it's not working on you.
and making you a better person,how good would it be?
SPEAKER_02 (47:31):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (47:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:32):
Well, and on that note, thank you so much, Leah
Pollard, for such a beautifuland profound discussion about
art, life, and culture.
We are privileged to have youhere and hope to have you back
soon.
And on that note, we are here.
We're going to say goodbye.
Thank you, Colin Megley.
(47:52):
Thank you, Leah Pollard.
Thank you, Perry Law, DieterBorbeck, Kenneth And on behalf
of Global Wealth, this is LloydCarlos wishing you peace and
good wealth.
This is peace and good wealth.
(00:25):
Hello everyone and welcome backto Peace and Good Wealth.
This is Loy Carlos, your host,and today we have a very special
guest.
Leah Pollard is a celebratedsculptor and cultural curator
whose work explores theintersection of inner peace,
identity, and creativeabundance.
(00:46):
Trained at the Ecole desBeaux-Arts in Paris, and known
for her acclaimed bed series andwarrior women portraits, Paula
uses figurative sculpture toreflect the psychology of self
and society.
Her art has been exhibitedglobally from Beijing to Mexico
City, and she has curated over140 exhibitions across five
continents.
(01:07):
Through her work, Paula remindsus that true wealth begins with
understanding, expression, andthe courage to lay ourselves
bare.
Welcome, Lea.
How are you today?
I'm
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
so flattered to be here, and thank you.
Thank you for that lovelyintroduction.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
I messed up a little bit of Ecole des Beaux-Arts in
Paris.
But I wanted to make sure that Ipronounce it a little bit better
than usual.
But let's start there.
Education-wise, you went toschool in Paris.
(01:42):
How much of that influenceObviously, there's a discipline,
the scholarly discipline thatyou learn in school.
But how much of being in Parisinfluenced sort of the way you
look at your work?
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
That's a wonderful question to start with, because
I often say that my life beganwhen I moved to France with my
three children.
little children and started thesecond part of my life.
And my education at the BeauxArts in Paris began with a
baptism by fire.
(02:23):
The professor literallyexcoriated me and almost threw
me out of the first sculptureclass.
And later we became very, veryclose friends.
And I said to him, why did youdo that to me?
Why did you make it so hard?
And he said, you didn't have anytime to waste.
You needed to know, was this forreal or not?
(02:43):
And so it impacted me.
A thousand percent.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
And you said that was the second part of your
life.
What year, more or less, wasthis when you first started?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Oh, in the mid-70s, I got to
SPEAKER_02 (02:55):
France.
And France has changed since,and so has New York, from the
1970s to where it is now.
Tell us a little bit of a flavorof what it was living there with
three children at that time,taking up art.
What was Paris like back then?
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
The only expats that were really in Paris at that
time either were working for thegovernment, for large
corporations, or with religiousinstitutions.
And so I was the real one out.
There was nobody like me around.
And, of course, the fact thattaxis wouldn't take four people,
(03:34):
we were on foot a lot and in thesubways a lot, and that got a
lot of attention from people.
I went to Paris regularly.
Accidentally, almost.
I went for three months and Istayed for 23 years.
Wow.
So
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
Paris at that time, how did you decide?
Did you decide during thosethree months that we already
decided that you're going tostudy art?
Or was that something that wasalso not planned
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
at the time?
Not at all.
Not at all.
I was trying to figure out howto survive.
I had just sold my last home inMiami, was going through a
divorce, had literally nothingand ended up in Paris and felt
that it was a place I could makesomething happen for myself.
Yes.
(04:26):
And the art part came a fewyears later where I got to
realize my dream.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Where did you begin, you know?
Artists, a lot of the artists,you know, start from a very
young age and they've dreamtabout being, you know, artists.
Some transition in adulthood,but they've always had some sort
of idea.
When you were studying, when youpicked up art...
(04:50):
sculpture was not the firstthing that you started to
explore, right?
Did you explore painting and anyother forms of art before you
went to sculpture?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Yes, because I was always hands-on in my earlier
days, raising a family betweensewing and knitting and cooking
and decorating and gardening,all these things that you do
physically.
I had a very physicalrelationship to art, but I
wanted to be a painter.
And I love color.
(05:23):
So when I started at theBeaux-Arts, I started in the
painting class.
And there was this constant urgeto just push the brush through
the canvas.
I had to really hold myselfback.
And then I always felt that thebrushes were very long.
I didn't know if I could shortenthat distance.
So after about four months inthe painting class, the
professor came over and said tome very kindly, Soleil, that art
(05:46):
school you went to in America,did they teach you how to hold a
brush?
So I said, oops, he got me onthat one.
And so I drifted into thesculpture class and said, maybe
if I get my hands on thematerial, that would work.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
So let's talk about the creative process.
What's the difference between,or is there any difference
between the creative processwhen you're painting versus when
you sculpt?
Where do you begin?
In both cases, you start with ablank canvas, right?
(06:23):
Either you're a block of stoneor metal or, you know,
everything is blank and thenform comes out of that.
Is there, what do you think, youknow, for you, is there a
difference other than thephysical process of doing it?
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
You know, they often ask the question about art being
contemporary and I say it can'tbe anything contemporary.
except contemporary, because theartist is living there at that
moment doing the thing.
And so you can't leave yourselfout of that equation.
You bring with you a lot of yourpersonal experiences, a lot of
(07:01):
your subconscious thoughts, andthen things trigger you, which
is exactly how the bed seriesstarted that was triggered.
The process itself, where you'rein an environment that is
conducive to digging deep, andat the Beaux-Arts in France, we
dealt a lot with the history andthe past, so kind of building on
(07:24):
the shoulders of these very,very famous artists.
Some were still alive.
Some were still walking throughthe hallways.
And at the time, it was sostrange.
I didn't say, oh, my goodness,I'm sitting in the same seat in
this café.
that Jean-Paul Sartre sat in,but I did.
So by osmosis and by thefrequentation, the fabulous
(07:46):
museum exhibitions, yeah, it wasa total bath.
SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
How much of knowing the history and what of art is
important in the way you create?
Some people will argue thatthere is something about going
to school for art.
and understanding the principlesand the history that makes for a
(08:13):
much more profound, rounderartist than somebody who has
not.
How much of that you think isimportant if somebody wanted to
really be an artist?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
In other countries and in other cultures, and
perhaps because they havethousands of years of culture
behind them, and that was builton their knowing of the thousand
years before them, take greatpride and spend a lot of time
and interest in the past so thatyou can then incorporate that in
(08:46):
where you are in your present.
It's hard to just free fall andsay I'm here and I'm gonna just
do hotchky-potchky with my handsand make something happen.
So we got really serioustraining and sometimes I have to
find an analogy and say, oh, mygoodness, you have a problem in
(09:09):
your brain.
You need surgery.
Oh, I'm going to get somebodywho never studied, but he knows
he can take that knife and goafter that little thing in my
brain.
It's the same thing.
With sculpture, you absolutelyneed to learn how to sculpt.
Then you can do what you want.
And we always say Picasso is theperfect example of that lesson.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
And there are, I mean, through, we're talking
about, you know, masters.
Masters also haveapprenticeships.
And a lot of them studied, notnecessarily to copy the masters,
but to know the principles andthe techniques so that when they
then in turn interpret or createart on their own, that they have
(09:50):
that basic foundation forcreating art.
Now, art is a little bitdifficult because you know, what
somebody sees in something isn'tnecessarily what somebody sees
in another.
So it's a little bit easier whenwe're looking at maybe
portraiture, you know, inpaintings where, okay, well,
(10:10):
this person looks like that realperson.
You know, this painting lookslike that real person.
And you might say, well, thatmight be good art, that may not
be.
But when we talked about art atyour lovely home, we talked
about the energy of art.
Okay.
(10:30):
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
We were saying that you weresaying that there's certain
pieces, you know, or pieces ofart have their own energy.
And some of them are reallypowerful, which now is what we
call, you know, maybe a masterart or a great work of art
because people are drawn to thembecause of the energy that they
(10:53):
have.
So How does that come about?
Is it the artist that's creatingthis because of technique, or is
it a combination of what theartist puts into it that comes
out as the energy of that pieceof work?
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
Well, you know, very fortunately at this stage of my
art practice, I've become...
more interested in science thanin quantum physics.
And you learn very quickly thatwe are just energy in fields of
energy.
And it's kind of matched one ofthe ways I understood what I was
(11:30):
doing in three dimensions, whichwas harnessing energy and
pushing away the extraneouselements so that I would be left
with the core.
So I guess it's a little bitlike getting uranium for a bomb.
You want all that energy.
You want it compressed.
And if you don't put it in, it'svery hard to get it out.
(11:52):
The art that I feel has been themost significant across all
borders, all cultures is artthat has in it that energy.
There's a role that theobserver, the beholder has with
the work of art.
When you stand in front of awork of art, you give your
(12:14):
energy to the art.
You start looking at things andthat energy is kind of goes in a
circuitous fashion.
It bounces back and forth andback and forth.
So these masterpieces that welove so much, they're capturing
energy from the people lookingat them.
I've always felt that one of thesaddest things is to create so
much art and never have it beseen.
(12:35):
It needs to be seen to be alive.
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
Well, I think I guess that's what it means when
we say, you know, If I pick up asculpture or a painting, it's
because this particular piece ofart speaks to me or this
particular photograph speaks tome as well.
Now, a lot of artists also talkabout when they're creating that
(13:03):
there is this process of tappinginto the ether somehow.
You don't really know whatyou're creating, but somehow you
tap into this process stream ofconsciousness in the universe
and it manifests itself in theart that you create and I think
that's a beautiful thing I knowfor me when I'm writing
something I'm not really fullyaware of what that writing is
(13:25):
until I'm finished and then Ilook back at it and I say wow I
didn't even think that that wasthe case or even painting it's
sort of like the same way nowsculpture is a long process it's
not so So how patient do youhave to be to get to the point
(13:46):
where you know...
Well, first of all, how do youknow when a particular piece of
art is finished?
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
Oh, I wish.
I wish.
You know, sometimes they leavethe studio and you say, just
give me another couple of weeks.
I really think I could have donebetter with another couple of
weeks.
But...
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
But they have their own endings, don't they?
It's the funny part.
They don't have to be perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Okay, so I think of it perhaps in a very plebeian
way.
It's my job.
I decided that I would workmaterials and make sculptures
from these materials.
So it's what I do.
And the goal, of course, is todo something good enough,
interesting enough, personalenough that...
(14:35):
A person who looks at it will betouched by it.
They'll be moved by it.
They'll be inspired by it.
They will have something shiftwithin themselves, often in a
very deep and personal placethat they too can't explain
exactly.
But there's that connection.
That's what you're hoping toestablish.
I don't think that any piece isfinished.
(14:56):
I always think of the work as abridge.
I'm just building a bridge tillone day somebody's going to look
at it over my dead shoulder andsay, well, I guess that meant
this, or it meant that, or shewas thinking this.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's the mystery of it.
If it were less mysterious, itwould be boring to
SPEAKER_02 (15:14):
me.
Are all objects art?
Let's put it that way.
Or...
Or is there art that we candefine?
For whatever reason, we as humanbeings feel like, I think most
of us, feel like there arecertain forms that we know,
okay, this is art.
(15:35):
It even could be the smallestthing.
It could be the oldest thing.
It could be the newest thing.
But we feel that that's art.
Now, some are similar objects,but they don't seem to feel like
they're art.
They're just decorations.
Or is there any difference?
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
Well, I'll give you an example of something that
happened to me maybe the secondor third year that I was in
Paris.
It was a beautiful day.
The sun was shining.
I was going to take the bus, andI look up, and on the glass wall
of the bus, I see this patchthat is iridescent and
(16:11):
translucent and gold and yellowand crackly, and it's absolutely
stunning, like a Pompeianmosaic.
And then I look and I say, oh,my goodness, somebody threw an
egg against the bus stand and itdried there.
But I'm in a city that has somuch aesthetic that is so
incredibly beautiful that youreyes get used to looking for the
(16:34):
beauty in things.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
Yeah.
So there's beauty everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
Well, I think that's that's you know, I always talk
about Italy this way, that even,you know, when you're in Italy,
even the the the.
garbage when they throw it out.
They arranged it in a way that'skind of beautiful.
And I think it's part of theculture, right?
(16:59):
There is a love for life andbeauty amongst Italians.
And if you're surrounded bythat, everything seems to be
colored by that aspect of theculture.
But I have to say also that Ihave a friend, it might take an
artistic eye to spot somethingthat beautiful.
(17:21):
Because I have a friend whotakes photographs and I say this
as an example a lot, that if youtook a photograph of gum on the
street, it would be artistic.
If I took that same photograph,it would just be gum on the
street, right?
There is a certain eye, forwhatever reason, And maybe, as
you say, a certain energy thatone infuses into the work that
(17:44):
then turns it into somethingmuch more magnificent than a
piece of gum on the street.
So let's talk about when youhave portraiture in your
sculptures.
Most people, well, a lot ofpeople that we know, when they
(18:05):
take up sculpture, they go intomore the abstract part of it.
Is there a difference in termsof discipline and technique or
is the process the same?
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Well, interestingly enough, when I was in school at
the Beaux-Arts, we had livemodels.
We drew from the live models andwe also sculpted from live
models.
And I'll never forget that wehad a model that was maybe 21
years old and perfect body andwonderful, you could put her on
(18:40):
a catwalk and she would beperfect.
And the whole class kind of gotlistless and bored and turned
away from the subject.
And then we got a model that hadbeen ravaged by time.
Her body was absolutely aroadmap for what she had been
through.
And there was nobody that wasn'ttotally, totally engaged in
(19:02):
capturing what this womanrepresented.
And once I started doing workwith the human form, it was the,
I would say, the only thing youwould not want to do if you
wanted to have a successfulcareer and sell a lot of work,
because America had moved toabstract expressionism, op art,
(19:23):
pop art, installation art,everything that was not to do
with the human form.
And yet, it's what we are.
We all are people, and we carrythese bodies around with us.
Our eyes speak to you.
You sit in the subway.
When I came here, there was alittle girl, and she was
probably six months old, andshe's flirting with me with her
(19:43):
eyes.
So the human form for me issomething I'm very attached to,
very sensitive of.
And when I sculpt a person, myidea is not to sculpt them
literally, but to sculpt themspiritually.
Where does their spirit reside?
Where is their soul?
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
So we were talking about that, the essence of the
humanity of whoever they are,which are reflected, you know,
we talked about the Mona Lisa,you know, La Giaconda, you know,
it's that, half smile thatcaptures us.
It's not because she's sobeautiful and she's so
(20:21):
wonderful, you know, because sheis.
And it's not even, you know,because of the greatest
technique in the painting,because a lot of it we don't
even see because it's beencovered through, you know, years
of time.
But that particular expressionis the essence of who she is.
Now, there are very famoussculptors like Rodin and Mayol
(20:45):
and Mayol being being one of myfavorites, how many more women
could you capture in statues?
But they're all differentbecause they have their own
different essence.
If you have to describe yourportraiture to somebody, what
(21:12):
would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Okay, a little earlier you prompted a thought
that reminded me of when I knewthat I could make a sculpture by
Lea Pollard.
The big concern is that you'regoing to do something that's
overly influenced by a famousartist or that you're going to
copy something or that'll bederivative.
And that's a big hole to fallinto.
(21:37):
That's one of the reasons whyart history is so important.
You see what has been doneeverywhere.
before you.
So I did an exercise.
I took a magazine.
I closed my eyes.
I tore out half a dozen pagesarbitrarily.
I pinned them on my studio wall,and I made a sculpture based on
what I saw in these pages from amagazine.
(21:58):
And then I looked at it, and Isaid, okay, would you know that
that was something that I did?
And the answer was, yeah, nobodyelse would have done it that
way.
So from that point on, Irealized that I did have my
signature.
SPEAKER_02 (22:10):
What is that signature in your eyes?
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
Truth.
Digging, digging for the truth,the honesty, the veracity of the
situation.
You know, when I work with alive model on a portrait, we
spend a lot of time talking.
We talk, we examine each otherto the point where there's a
transference of trust.
And as the person is wanderingaround the studio, because I
(22:38):
don't ask anybody to sit stillso I can get the perfect
profile, I just want theirpresence so that I can just
check it out and feel them.
Something happens, and thesculpture itself starts to
breathe.
SPEAKER_02 (22:55):
And it comes out, I think...
artists would say, whetheryou're a photographer or a
painter, there's a certain thingthat comes out that isn't
necessarily a physical thing.
But when we see it as humanbeings, we identify it.
That is that person.
(23:16):
And that is that artist who madethis type of thing.
Now, you had...
Let's talk about women for asecond.
You've taken on...
different topics on women,aging, womanhood, sensuality.
(23:37):
What stories do you feel remainto be told in women's place in
art?
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
Okay, that's a perfect segue.
You know, I work in reallysupporting women in the arts, As
a woman in the arts and havinghad a gallery, having sold a lot
of art, I feel that it's veryimportant to put some energy
behind a segment that has beenunder-respected.
(24:10):
We've seen changes now.
But the one thing that I amyearning for, the one thing that
has never been put on apedestal, is the person who has
a normal life and performs thefunctions of a totally not
average existence because it'sgetting more and more rare to
(24:32):
function at all those levels.
But you feed your children.
You know how many female artistshave been revered because they
abandoned their children or theycouldn't have the conflict of
raising children or they had adifferent lifestyle that would
not permit what I call a normalexistence, an existence that
most everybody can relate to.
(24:54):
So it is possible to be a normalperson.
You don't have to be the VanGogh crazy.
You don't have to cut off yourear.
You don't have to have greenhair.
You can just be a normal persondoing a really fine, fine job at
what you've chosen.
SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
Well, I think the difficulty that we have is that
human beings have a tendency tolabel.
know people label things soyou're either an artist or
you're not an artist or you'reyou're a woman you know women um
cannot have it all but men canhave it all for whatever reason
(25:34):
which is you know sort of likeinteresting a man can be a both
a father a good father um a goodhorseback rider or athlete and a
good chef and a smartbusinessman and they can have it
all and have children and all ofthose things.
But women can't.
Women had to have choicesbecause their positions, I would
(25:57):
argue, their positions werelimited.
They were limited to either thisor that.
It can't be both of them.
And so somebody who does...
All of the ordinary, seeminglyordinary things in life cannot
possibly be extraordinary,right?
You can't be both, right?
(26:18):
So you couldn't be a good motherand a wonderful artist and a
great dancer and all of thosethings as well.
But women have, I think, forgedon as best as we can, but I
think they're stillunderrepresented in art, don't
you think?
UNKNOWN (26:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
The amount of people, we know male artists, we
can identify male artistsquicker than we can identify
female artists, I would argue.
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah, well, the statistics speak for themselves.
I'm involved with the New YorkSociety of Women Artists, and we
just celebrated our centennial.
And we have to look at thefacts.
The facts are that more than 50%of artists, declared artists,
are female.
Only 2% make it to an auction atSotheby's.
(27:09):
Only 10% get into museums atall.
And as soon as the identity isknown, the chances drop more and
more and more.
But getting back to when I wasin school, my professor did not
give us false expectations.
He said, you become a sculptorMaybe after 25 years, you know
(27:31):
how to sculpt.
It's slow, and you have to do alot to be able to learn those
lessons.
And it's not for you to sayyou're an artist.
Let other people say that.
I say I sculpt.
You say I'm an artist.
I accept that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Well, that's the trinity, right?
Anybody can write, I suppose.
But the writer puts out thework, and if people read them,
then you're a writer.
If people don't want to readthem, then you're still a
writer, but you're notnecessarily at the level of the
people that we revere as goodartists that write poetry.
(28:11):
Anybody can write poetry.
But I think to have thatconnection with another human
being is what's important aboutthe art.
Now, having said that, we talkedabout artificial intelligence
sort of like coming into play.
And whether, you know, thecreation of a particular object
(28:34):
becomes art, even if it's notmade by a human being.
Now, perhaps, you know, if it'senergy, if art is energy, then
maybe it doesn't matter thatit's a human being.
But in my mind, there's alsothat sort of, when you are
sculpting a portrait of a model,there is a connection that I can
(28:59):
see when I'm looking at it thatrelates to you and the model.
So it's sort of that, you know,that thing, or is that even,
does that even really matter,having that connection between
human beings to create art?
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
Pixels on a screen are not brushstrokes.
You perhaps can get a lot ofideas by using artificial
intelligence.
You can prepare, you can movethings around easier, you can
come to other considerationsfrom the multitude of
possibilities that are availablewith AI.
(29:36):
But it's a little bit likeeating a McDonald's and having
something made by a four-starchef.
The love that goes into it, thepassion, the commitment, you can
taste it.
And I think that if you look atart enough, it's not just colors
and squares you put on walls.
It actually informs your very,very sense of being alive when
(30:00):
you wake up in the morning.
I remember I had a wonderful,wonderful painting behind my
bed.
And I was requested for a museumexhibition.
And so I loaned it to the museumfor six months.
And every time I walked in thebedroom, the hole, that space
with nothing in it behind my bedwas so huge that it actually
(30:21):
kind of hurt.
And I couldn't wait for thepiece to come back and put it in
its rightful place.
So I think that each and everyartwork is unique.
How you relate to it is unique.
And how much you choose to be inthat space commitment of
existence of being present tohow you feel and what you see
and there's some wonderful booksout there I could recommend some
(30:44):
but one there was actually adiscussion on the science of
what we see and the fact is wedon't see we extrapolate you
only see 20% of anything I onlysee 20% of you but I met you the
other day and I can fill in allthose little pieces and say
there's Lloyd okay but You'renot there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
You're just the kind of...
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Well, that's what I was saying.
I was thinking about that thisweekend that, you know, I say
it's the impression.
You know, I was looking at thesunset and I tried to remember
it in my mind's eye.
And...
All I really remember is theimpression of what it was.
(31:29):
It's not everything.
The camera captures everything.
But my eyes capture theimpression of what it is.
And thank God for me, I havevery romantic eyes.
Because some things you see morebeautiful than it is, closer
than it is.
If you're looking at theskyscrapers, for instance, you
feel they're closer to you thanthe camera does.
(31:49):
And so there's a change.
But this is a nice segue toyour...
to the bed series.
So let's talk a little bit aboutwhat is the bed series?
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
It's autobiographical.
It has become autobiographicalbecause once I started it based
on a personal event, I had anaccident in my studio and I was
bedridden for an extended periodof time.
I couldn't work on anything thathad any weight to it.
I'd been using heavy materials,so I could only work on a
tabletop in my bed.
(32:23):
And I made a bed.
I made a sculpture of a bed.
It was on my mind, right?
And then I made another one, andI realized that there was a
relationship linguisticallybetween the word bed and the
object bed that I was making.
So then I sat down, I made alist, and I executed a dozen
pieces.
They went into an exhibition,and it sold out the first night.
(32:46):
And those were the days when thecell phone wasn't available.
People started to call me andgive me words with bed in it.
So I said, whoa, this isinteresting.
I made a first list and therewere over a hundred beds.
And I realized that it was alinguistic form that I was
curious about.
How we transported the idea ofbedrock or riverbed or bed and
(33:08):
breakfast into our psyche anduse these words without thinking
twice when the image is a bed.
And then of course, my curiosityled me to research.
There's no materials on thesubject.
You can get information aboutcertain types of beds made at
different periods of time, but abed isn't really more than what
(33:30):
you do there.
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
It's
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
what happens that it becomes the bed, right?
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
Well, that's interesting because I also, you
know, I was thinking culturally,there are certain cultures that
don't have, they don't use beds.
You know, not in the classicalway, that we know it.
Yet there is, you know, peoplewould say like, you know, like a
(33:57):
rolled up, you know, woven matis the bed, you know, and it
becomes the bed when somebody ison it.
But there's also a certainpersonality with beds, right?
And it's a very personal thing.
Some people want it, you know, acertain way and want to look at
a certain way.
But the moment you, you know, Ifyou go on vacation, the one
(34:22):
thing that you miss most islying down in your own bed.
It
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
feels
SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
good to get home.
Yes, that's what it feels likehome.
But you have a lot of otherthings that you're working on.
Now, sculpture, bronze is adifficult material to work with.
It's
SPEAKER_00 (34:41):
not easy.
Excessively difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
And now, but you also are doing this not just,
you're doing it in Italy, right?
You just came back from Italy.
You're doing it here, obviously.
And you're also in China.
So let's talk about, is there adifference in the way people
around the world look atsculpture specifically or art in
(35:04):
general about how it's made orthe importance or the value of
it and what the future lookslike in terms of sculpture?
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
No question about it.
UNKNOWN (35:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:16):
Let's compare, let's say, the two different ones.
The Italians that are veryclassical and then the Chinese
in Beijing.
What are we seeing?
Are they in parallel directionor are they looking at it
differently?
Because you're in both worlds.
SPEAKER_00 (35:34):
I haven't had enough time in Italy to actually test
the waters to see what everybodyhas to say.
And in fact, I'm starting a newseries using...
words that have leto in them.
Leto means bed in Italian.
And guess what?
There's more than 100 words withleto in them.
So I started to work on that andusing a different material,
(35:56):
which is a material first usedin Italy and still traditionally
used in Italy and very rarelyused outside for what we would
call serious art.
I think to answer your questiona little bit more precisely when
I accidentally ended up at theworld's largest art foundry in
(36:19):
China.
This is a foundry that has 800trained employees and 80,000
square meters of studio space.
This is big.
I couldn't believe that theywould want to work with me, that
my little beds would make adifference or matter.
And I'm talking about my worknext to monuments, monuments.
(36:39):
And so at first I was a littlebit you know, scared.
I was afraid that one day theywould discover it was just a
little bed.
But as the years went by, andnow we're into 15 years of this
relationship, and we're startinganother project together, they
said something to me.
I said, why did you care aboutmy little beds when you're
(37:01):
making these monuments?
The last one they did is fivetimes taller than the Statue of
Liberty.
So it's monumental, beyondanything we do in America.
And they said, but most of thatwork is done by groups of
artists working together.
They're technical people whoexecute an object, a subject.
(37:24):
You're an artist, you create.
And they've been true to thatfrom day one.
It's been amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (37:31):
Are there apprenticeships that's going on
in China now as well?
Or is it...
I guess just like in every otherplace in the world, there are
people who like the classicalarts.
There's also the traditionalChinese art.
(37:51):
But there's also a lot ofinterest in more abstract
expressionist art among theChinese.
The collectors, at least, likemodern art.
Has art changed in Chinasince...
I guess the morecommercialization of China in
(38:15):
general, or do you feel likeit's always been there and it's
just getting bigger and biggerbecause of the opportunities?
SPEAKER_00 (38:23):
Well, I can give you two examples.
One is that a few years ago,China announced that it was
going to create 300 new artmuseums.
We're lucky if we get two ayear, and they're going to do
300 in the next five years.
Culture to them is more than2,000 years old, the Bronze Age.
(38:45):
They have bronzes in Beijing atthe temple that are 2,000 years
old, and you can't imagine whatthey were capable of executing
at that time.
But what you're seeing also,take any situation from America
and multiply it by 10.
So if you have 1,000billionaires in America, you
(39:06):
have 10,000 billionaires inChina.
And they will collect art.
And the most interesting thingis that the older generation has
declared itself somewhat lackingin knowledge and open spirit.
And so they have put theirchildren in the role of
acquiring art for the family'sheritage.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
So where do you fit in these?
Because I know you have multiplemore projects in China.
You're coming up with a reallybig one in 2026.
We talked about the taro, whichis how big is it going to be?
SPEAKER_00 (39:46):
They're going to be about two and a half meters by
four meters.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:51):
And how long do you think it would take you from
start to finish before you could
SPEAKER_00 (40:00):
exhibit?
Can I come back in a year andtell you what it took?
I'm not sure.
It's an experiment that I'mworking directly with the
Foundry on.
And I'll tell you, it came aboutthrough some unusual
circumstances and an interactionwith a master of tarot and a
philosopher who was completelyintrigued by the bronze process.
(40:21):
viewed from the alchemistryperspective.
And so he met me over in China,and we started to conjure up
some possibilities.
And we did tarot readingsmorning, noon, and night.
And so I...
presented a project to the headof the foundry to do these giant
tarot cards, but they are goingto be assemblage, and I'm going
(40:43):
to use the scraps from thefoundry.
So when you imagine the size ofwhat they normally work on, a
scrap takes two men and a craneto move into place, which is why
I can't answer your question onhow much time and what.
So The biggest, hardest part wasto convince the foundry that
with a zero waste policy, theycould sacrifice some of the
(41:06):
recovery of these materials andlet me work them and create the
tarot cards with them.
So it's an adventure.
We'll see.
SPEAKER_02 (41:14):
Well, it's certainly exciting.
Now, one last question before wego.
Is there a question that no oneever asks you that you wish
somebody would when it comes to
SPEAKER_00 (41:26):
art?
Yes, yes.
I'll be very blunt.
Why does the art market chase 2%of the world's population to
sell the same people art whentheir role should really be to
convert the 98% that is afraidto buy art into art lovers and
art buyers at every level?
(41:47):
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Well, you know, we remember what, again, we talked
about Fran Lebowitz saying thatthey applaud the price, they
don't applaud the artist.
And I think that's part ofwhat's keeping a lot of the art,
you know, could be, would be artcollectors from indulging in
art.
Because if they bought somethingfor$25...
It doesn't feel like it'svaluable art because the world
(42:12):
tells us that the$25 million oneor the$250 million one is the
one that you should covet.
And yet art is everywhere.
There's so many artists thatwhen you go to flea market,
These artisans, if you go to, Igo to Provincetown quite a bit,
(42:34):
and there used to be artiststhat are in training or they
just want to do things.
They're not very expensivepieces of work, but people look
at them as lesser art than theones that we are told are
collectible.
And so I think if we wanted toconvert the world you know, the
(42:55):
98% into art lovers and artcollectors.
We have to erase that idea thatart can only be good art if it's
expensive art.
SPEAKER_00 (43:06):
My final word would be that the language around art
and artists has to change.
The closest parallel is diamondsor petroleum.
It's a natural resource.
It's deep, deep, deep down inthe earth, if you want to call
the psyche earth.
(43:27):
And somebody has to pull it out,refine it, condition it, and put
it in a place where it can beused and applied.
And we should be using art.
to apply to culture, not toapply to price tags.
So if that language would changeand you would look at each and
every artist as you would lookat somebody who's capable of
(43:49):
transforming raw materials, it'slike a farmer.
The farmer plants the seed andyou get to eat it on your dinner
table.
Well,
SPEAKER_02 (44:00):
I think the problem that we're having is that art
isn't, you know, as we know ittoday, especially, just as in
real estate.
We used to think of real estateas a house that you lived in or
a place that you worked in.
But a lot of people think of itas an investment.
Even if they live there, theylook at it as an investment.
And art right now is beinglooked at as an investment, as a
(44:21):
form of investment, but not as afinancial investment, not as a
personal investment.
And I think what you're talkingabout is looking at art as...
deeply intrinsic to ourinvestment in the culture of
humanity, in our connection witheach other, you know, that would
allow us to appreciate, youknow, everything from everyone
(44:43):
from all over the world, justlike we do with, you know, music
and food and in all of thesethings that connected us as
human beings.
SPEAKER_00 (44:53):
We are custodians during our lifetime.
All we're doing is taking careof it.
You show me who got buried withthe Picasso in their tombstone.
I mean, the pharaohs used totake their jewelry and all, but
really.
So what does it mean that youpossess this, that it cost you
nine figures?
I don't think that's the point.
The point is that we want to becareful when we talk about the
(45:18):
art market and we want to talkabout art culture.
as culture.
And if you stomp on your cultureand you don't respect it, you
will inherit something prettysad and you'll pass something
very sad on to your heirs andyour family.
This is what I spend a lot oftime trying to defend.
(45:38):
Look at it from a differentperspective.
SPEAKER_02 (45:41):
Art is something, you know, we work very hard to,
you know, as they say, to beable to enjoy these things, art,
in all of its form, whether it'spoetry, whether it's sculpture,
whether it's paintings, youknow, that's what we enjoy
doing.
It's not something that we tradeas a commodity, you know,
(46:06):
without any other...
It's what connects all of ustogether.
It's how we identify, youknow...
the deeper thoughts that wehave, the deeper emotions, you
know, that we have is expressedthrough art, in all sorts of
forms, in music, in plays, intelevision, in, you know, all of
these things, I think, are areflection of who we are.
(46:29):
And I think that's what'sgetting lost.
You know, we keep talking aboutthe sellability of things,
sellability of movies,sellability of books,
sellability of, you know, weforget that the reason we do
them is for that connection withthat, artist?
SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
When we are in touch with ourselves, we can begin to
be in touch with art.
And they say everywhere, art isa language.
Well, learn a new language.
You will have so much richerlife because of it.
And possessing things is not thesame as the wealth.
(47:07):
Peace and good wealth, it justgoes through my head every day
when I think of how you chosethe name.
for good wealth, because I thinkthat that's something that has
been overlooked.
You should have good wealth.
SPEAKER_02 (47:22):
Not just wealth for the
SPEAKER_00 (47:23):
sake of it.
That's right.
Good wealth.
If it's not working on you.
and making you a better person,how good would it be?
SPEAKER_02 (47:31):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (47:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:32):
Well, and on that note, thank you so much, Leah
Pollard, for such a beautifuland profound discussion about
art, life, and culture.
We are privileged to have youhere and hope to have you back
soon.
And on that note, we are here.
We're going to say goodbye.
Thank you, Colin Megley.
(47:52):
Thank you, Leah Pollard.
Thank you, Perry Law, DieterBorbeck, Kenneth And on behalf
of Global Wealth, this is LloydCarlos wishing you peace and
good wealth.
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