July 25, 2025 • 61 mins
Destination rides in the mountains of Colorado can be magical. Hidden in the mountain town of Nederland, Colorado, sits a treasure unlike any other. A treasure built and shared by a Vietnam veteran, Scott Harrison.
In this deeply moving conversation with Allie Wagner, the Carousel of Happiness Outreach Director and podcast host, we discover how this labor of love has transformed nearly 1.2 million riders. Allie shares fascinating insights about the carousel's unique features – from the meticulously researched animals to the "Somewhere Else" wall where visitors honor loved ones who have passed. She explains the almost magical effect the carousel has on visitors, who often find themselves moved to tears or compelled to share their life stories upon entering.
For motorcycle enthusiasts traveling Colorado's stunning Peak to Peak Highway, the Carousel of Happiness offers more than just a charming stop. It provides a rare opportunity to reconnect with childlike wonder and presence – similar to the feeling riders experience on the open road. As Allie beautifully articulates, joy is our birthright as humans, something we intuitively understand as children before life's complexities create distance from that truth.
Whether you're planning a ride through the Colorado mountains or simply seeking inspiration, this conversation reminds us of the profound impact one person's healing journey can have on the entire world. The carousel stands as a testament to resilience, creativity, and the transformative power of not delaying joy – a three-minute ride that just might change your perspective on what matters most.
CBS On the Road featuring Scott Harrison and the Carousel of Happiness
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
As motorcycle riders, we love the open road, but it's
even better when that roadleads to an amazing destination.
The Carousel of Happiness inNetherland, colorado, is one of
those magical places I've oftenspoke about on this podcast.
(00:24):
Wow, this place is amazing.
It's a 1910 restored carouselbut, unlike others, it was hand
carved by one man named Scott, aVietnam veteran.
(00:49):
It took him 26 years to carveeach of these animals that are
on this carousel.
It has been his hope, it hasbeen his dream that this
carousel in some way would touchthe hearts of many people.
In some way would touch thehearts of many people.
(01:09):
You know I'm incrediblyfortunate to interview truly
remarkable people from time totime on this podcast, in this
case today, a person who sharesher heart and her love for this
carousel with her own listenersaround the world through the
Carousel of Happiness podcast.
My wife and I are very muchlisteners, love it, and I'm so
(01:32):
glad to share with you today afull-length conversation with my
new friend, allie Wagner, theOutreach Director of the
Carousel of Happiness, who alsohosts their podcast.
She's awesome, so find acomfortable place to be.
I know you'll enjoy thisconversation with Allie Wagner.
(01:54):
Allie, welcome to the podcast.
I'm so glad to have you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
Yeah, so, allie, what?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
is your role at the Carousel of Happiness?
Glad to have you.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm delighted to be here.
So, allie, what is your role atthe Carousel of Happiness?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I am the Outreach Director for the Carousel of
Happiness, which is actually acarousel, so that's one of the
most common questions that weget when people walk into the
space is, they say oh, wait,this is a carousel.
It is a carousel, but it'sactually a really, really
special carousel.
It is a 1910 restored carouselbut, unlike other restorations
(02:37):
of carousels that try to takethe carousel back to its
original form, ours is a littledifferent.
Ours was hand carved by one manover the course of 26 years.
And he carved this work of artbecause when he was a young man,
he was 17 years old he went toVietnam and he was experiencing
(03:01):
as many people do wasexperiencing as many people do a
really, really rough time there.
And his sister had sent him amusic box and this music box he
would press up to his ear inbetween firefights.
And he pressed that music boxup to his ear and it was a way
that he could regulate hisnervous system.
It was a way that he would.
(03:22):
He'd be able to flush some ofthe adrenaline and cortisol out
of his body.
Some of the guys looked atpictures of their wives, some of
them smoked.
He didn't smoke.
He just would put this up tohis ear.
And what he found in thosequiet moments was that he saw
(03:42):
this image of a carousel in amountain meadow and he thought
about what it would be like tobe at a carousel in a mountain
meadow and he didn't have anyrelationship with a carousel.
He wasn't a big carousel person.
This image really came out ofnowhere, seemingly, and it
provided him with a lot ofrelief at a time that he really
(04:04):
really needed it.
And when he came back fromVietnam he was still struggling
the war hadn't quite left him,as is the case for many of our
veterans and he struggled and heeventually decided what would
happen if I tried to recreatethis carousel, what would happen
(04:25):
if I started to piece togetherthis image in real life that had
provided me with so much solaceand peace.
And he started carving slowly.
He was not trained as a carver,he didn't know how to carve.
He learned as he went, helearned through trial and error
(04:49):
and eventually he got the hangof it and eventually he found a
carousel frame and everythingstarted to come together.
15 years later, the carousel hasspun one point almost one.2
million writers, and so my job,going back to your original
(05:10):
question, many, many minutes ago, my job is to tell that story.
My job is to share what work ofart Scott was able to create
and how he was able to create it, because the Carousel now is a
nonprofit organization.
(05:31):
Scott literally built ithimself and then donated it to a
501c3.
And I'm the assistant directorof that nonprofit wing of the
Carousel.
I host the carousels podcastwhere we tell stories about the
carousel, and I know we'll talkabout that on this podcast.
(05:52):
But really my job is to helppeople understand how special of
a place this is.
And one of the reasons I'm soexcited to talk to you
specifically is, as you know,the carousel is located on the
Peak to Peak Highway, which is avery popular and very gorgeous
(06:14):
ride that many riders, yearafter year, pass through the
carousel and a lot of times theydon't realize that we're there.
And I am so excited to talk toyou and share what the carousel
is for motorcycle riders becauseI'd love for them to stop, I'd
(06:35):
love for them to peek in, I'dlove for them to learn more
about the carousel, eitherthrough the podcast or walking
through those doors.
It's a three-minute ride.
It is guaranteed to change yourlife.
Ron can attest to this.
We have so many stories ofpeople that in hearing Scott's
story and seeing that work ofart and being in that space,
(06:59):
they leave different and that'swhat we're really excited about
at the Carousel.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, as I mentioned and as listeners are hearing
your voice, they're probablythinking I know why Ron likes to
talk to people like thisbecause they're so inspiring,
and you really really are.
Oh man, there's so many thingswe could hit on.
But yeah, let's just kind ofstart back the beginning for you
(07:27):
, because I wanted to find out.
We're just getting to know eachother.
We met face to face just acouple of times.
Saw you at the coffee shop justfor a few minutes.
Last week, at the train cardirectly right next to the
carousel, we said hi for aminute, but where did you grow
up?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
eye for a minute.
But where did you grow up?
So I laugh because there's ashort answer.
And then there's the realanswer to that question.
My dad was actually a Navypilot and so we moved around a
lot.
I was born in Maine but we livedon the East Coast, west Coast,
overseas, pretty much anywhereexcept the mountains, which I
eventually came to the mountainsabout almost a decade ago.
(08:09):
But for the longest time Inever lived anywhere that wasn't
on the water.
So that's sort of my consistentthread throughout all of these
places that I've lived is thatthere's always been water nearby
.
But yeah, that's the longanswer to that question.
But part of the reason that Ifelt so drawn to the carousel
(08:31):
and to Scott's story is because,you know, I'm a Navy brat.
My dad was gone a lot.
The work that he did was veryimportant and also very
challenging sometimes to be thechild of someone doing that kind
of work, and so I think there'sa lot about Scott's story that
(08:54):
resonates personally with me,which is part of the reason that
I think the enthusiasm comesthrough.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I'm so curious too.
You are such a good storyteller.
Now we're most certainly goingto have a link on this podcast
episode to reach the carousel.
Tell me if you're thinkingdifferently here.
But start at the beginning, atleast the first couple of
episodes.
Then skip around if you want.
But you really need thatfoundation, right.
(09:21):
But people are going to hearthat you are a very, very good
story writer and especially goodstoryteller in your tone and
your pace, the pausing, thethoughtfulness, all of that.
Where did that come from?
Are you especially trained inwriting, or where did that come
(09:44):
from?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think there's a little bit of both.
I have always been astoryteller.
My parents would tell you thatI was always sort of making up
stories and telling littlemagical stories about unicorns
and all sorts of silly things.
So there's that element, and Ithink there's also the fact that
(10:10):
I think the way that I I justnaturally see the world in
stories, I just naturally liketo make those connections
because they feel reallysatisfying to me.
When I notice somebody isrepeating something that I heard
somewhere else, I get reallyexcited because it feels like
(10:32):
I'm actually in the middle of astory that's unfolding, and so I
think I was just sort of alwaysnaturally wired that way.
I had a very, very differentlife.
I worked as an intelligenceanalyst for the US military as
well as a civilian.
I wasn't an active duty and soI was in a very, very different
(10:56):
world than I was in, than I amin right now.
And then in 2010, much like thecarousel, which is the year
that the carousel opened in 2010, my life shifted to.
I lost both of my parents insix months, and it was something
that I know was one of thosepivot points for me.
(11:19):
And, quite frankly, I was in awindowless cubicle, driving to
work in the dark and drivinghome in the dark, and couldn't
quite figure out how I got inthere and I still don't quite
know how I got there, but I gotthere.
And then, when my parentspassed away, it was this eye
opening opportunity for me toreflect on where it was that I
(11:43):
was going, for me to reflect onwhere it was that I was going,
and I saw everybody who workedfor the government and they
loved it so much and they feltso much passion and love for it,
and I did not.
I loved my job and there wereelements of it that, like I got
to see amazing places and meetinteresting people, but my heart
wasn't in it and I didn'treally know that until that
(12:07):
personal shift.
So what ended up happening?
Because my dad was in the Navyand I'm very comfortable
traveling, I bought a one-wayticket to Nicaragua.
I traveled the world for about18 months because that was what
I knew how to do.
I knew how to be in a foreignplace and navigate it.
So it sounds very brave, but itreally wasn't.
(12:30):
It was just sort of what mybody knew how to do and as I was
traveling this was in 2010,.
So blogs were a thing.
I started writing a blog and Istarted sharing some of the
stories about the people that Iwas meeting, but more than that,
I was sharing stories about howI was changing as I was going
(12:54):
to these different places.
And then I took all of thoseblog posts and I applied to
graduate school with those blogposts and I got a scholarship to
go get my MFA in storytelling.
So well in writing, but really,as, as as I see it, I'm a
storyteller before I'm a writer,and so I did have some training
(13:18):
.
And then, in 2016, I graduated,and usually when you have a
master's in writing, they sayall right, well, you're going to
go teach at a college, nowyou're going to go help other
people, right.
And I was working on a writingproject, I was working on a book
that I just wasn't ready to putdown, and so I decided, instead
of taking a very stableteaching job, I was going to
(13:42):
bartend on a dude ranch inWyoming.
So I had, I did well, so I Iwent to Jackson, but this is how
little I knew about, like themountains, I thought it was in
Colorado.
It was not.
Thankfully, I figured that outbefore I went Right and I fell
in love with the mountains.
(14:02):
I fell in love with climbing upthings and going down things
and putting things on my feetwhen there's snow on the ground,
and I fell in love with wideexpanses of nature something for
(14:26):
my nervous system that I wasn'tquite expecting.
I met my husband, who was alifelong wildland firefighter
and ski bum, and so for the lastdecade or so I've been playing
in the mountains and tellingstories along the way, and just
grateful that I get to tell thecarousel story.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Oh yeah, and for those who don't know where
Jackson is, as we're talkingabout, uh, it's in Northern
Wyoming.
So you have two national parksreally, really close, right.
So you've got the Grand Tetonsare right there, and then just
the other side, like right nextto it to the North, uh, is
Yellowstone National Park.
(15:02):
So, oh yeah, you're in verymuch cowboy country, for sure.
You're also, as you know, inJackson.
You're in movie star country,right, because there's lots of
very, very wealthy people wholove that area and ski at
Jackson Hole.
And I was up there myself,along with my brother-in-law.
(15:24):
He came out from Texas to gomotorcycling with me.
We actually talked about it alittle bit on one of the
episodes of the podcast, but wemotorcycled up through there
through the what was it calledChief Joseph Highway, I think
Also Beartooth Highway, that wasright up in there and, oh yeah,
that's just beautiful and it'svery much wilderness out there
(15:47):
Once you get outside of themovie star homes and then, oh,
my goodness, it is some seriouswilderness out there, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It's absolutely gorgeous.
It's a very, very special place.
There's a reason why peoplewant to experience it.
There's a reason why it's verycommon.
So I originally had onlyplanned to be there for a summer
but, as frequently is the case,I ended up staying.
I was actually in arelationship with.
(16:18):
I was in a long distancerelationship and was intending
to come back, and then iteventually got to the point
where I said you know what?
I'm not coming.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
You had your priorities figured out.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, how did?
How did your career path andlife path and all that bring you
to this place?
So, also so that others know,you're in Nederland, colorado.
I see by your background you'reat the carousel right.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
No, I'm actually not.
My office is painted with neon,orange and pink, so that is why
Ron thinks that I'm in a placedesigned for children.
It is not.
It's where I live.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I meant it as a compliment, but yeah, I thought
it was just.
Oh, you got some kind of coolhippie thing going on in the
background.
That must be the carousel.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, no, it's just my little cool hippie office I
love it.
So how did you?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
find the carousel, or how did the carousel find you?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So the short answer is that there was a job opening,
just like any other job.
But I will say that it did feellike I was called.
I saw the position initiallyand the way that it was written,
I didn't quite feel as excitedabout the position and kind of
let it go by and was looking atother things and things in my
life were starting to shift andwas looking at other things and
(17:46):
things in my life were startingto shift and eventually it just
felt like something that keptcoming back and I think that's
why you know the way that I'mwired to see details and stories
.
You know, if I were telling themovie that is my life, I would
have to acknowledge that yes, itwas somebody else saying, hey,
you should apply for that, orsomebody else sending me the
posting over and over again.
(18:07):
So it was a little bit of justyour standard this is how you
apply for a job.
And then there was a little bitof carousel magic, as I like to
call it, and in the process ofmy interview I really sat down
and I did something a little bitdifferent than I did, than I've
done for interviews in the past, because I'm a reasonably
(18:28):
communicative human and I amempathetic, so I understand
really what people want me tosay, you know, and so I can go
through an interview and not bedishonest in any way, but really
find that common ground.
And for my carousel interview Idid something completely
different.
I didn't plan the answers tothose questions, like I didn't
(18:50):
practice that.
I sat with my eyes closed andmeditated for a few minutes and,
just like Scott's image of acarousel in a mountain meadow, I
thought a podcast, that's whatwould make me more excited about
this, that's how I could bringme to this position.
(19:12):
And so, instead of planning formy interview, I spent all of
the time plotting out differentexample episodes that I thought
would be really fun, and pulleda bunch of stuff that I could
find from the internet and andcreated these little mini
vignettes of what I saw thepodcast could be.
And then I went into myinterview and I said, yes, all
(19:34):
of those things on the list thatyou want me to do, I can do
those and I can do them with anopen heart, but this is how
you're going to crack my heartwide open.
This is how I think that I canbring who I am as a person to
the carousel for its benefit andalso for my own enjoyment.
And credit to my boss, melody,credit to Scott, credit to the
(19:58):
board members, for really andthat's the way it always is at
the carousel and that's one ofthe things that I've noticed in
Scott's story is so many timeshe bumps into the right person
at the right time with the rightskills and doesn't second guess
it, he just says, yes, let'ssee how it goes, let's play,
(20:19):
let's be curious.
And that's something that I'mgrateful for in this work
environment.
And it's been huge to me in myown expression of my own ideas,
it's been huge to me in my ownevolution as a human to have a
place where they just sort ofsay, hey, we see you for what
(20:41):
you are, come be you with us.
And so that's how I ended up atthe carousel.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So the podcast was not in the job description.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
It was not.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Just brought that.
Oh, my goodness, I am so gladyou did, because so I again.
I work part-time, have workedpart-time at at Green Jeep Tours
, nestes Park, colorado.
Nikki Schultz is the ownerthere female owner.
You need to support them and Ilove it.
Love, love, love the job as atour guide when I get a chance
to do that in Rocky MountainNational Park.
(21:13):
But so many times visitors fromeven people coming from Denver,
you know, but we have peoplecoming from all over the country
.
So many have never heard aboutNederland or they know about
Nederland, never heard of thecarousel.
Oh, my goodness, my brain justexplodes.
Then I just tell them you havegot to go to the carousel.
(21:34):
And why should I do that?
Because it'll change your life.
There's one little reason.
But yeah, and I'm so glad thatyou brought to the table this
idea of let's put it on the air,let's just be talking about it
over and over and over again,and the depth that you go into
(21:54):
on your episodes that alwayscircle back to the ending don't
delay joy, don't Delay Joy.
This carousel about happiness,but it's about don't delay joy
too, and I am so, so glad.
I'd love for you to share too,and I'm going to put a link in
here in the show notes too,about your visit with Steve
(22:15):
Hartman from On the Road withCBS.
So you were on TV or Scott wasinterviewed, and then the
carousel Tell us, tell us aboutthat.
I'll certainly have a link toit.
But how, how did you move?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
up so it they actually reached out to us.
It wasn't anything that.
My understanding of the programis that originally it was a
Charles Caroll program way backwhen um and that Steve wanted to
.
Um, steve wanted to bring itback.
And basically he travels theUnited States and he finds
(22:52):
inspiring people that are doinginteresting, inspiring work that
that uplifts others.
And he had heard about thecarousel and he reached out and
came for a couple of days.
They spent most of their time atScott's shop watching him work
(23:15):
and also interviewing him abouthow he got here, what, what drew
him to carousels all of thesort of standard questions.
And then they were able to comevisit the carousel and see it
in action, experience whatpeople experience every day, and
we see it all of the time.
(23:35):
People walk through the spaceand they immediately feel
different and that's somethingthat I noticed immediately when
people walk in, because that'sjust sort of my natural wiring.
But that's been the thingthat's most exciting to me about
the carousel is the energyunderneath it.
(23:55):
Yes, it's a beautiful work ofart and, yes, scott is an
amazing person, but there's ahum, there's a throbbing,
there's a something underneathit, largely because of the way I
think he created it underneathit, largely because of the way I
think he created it, and so tohave to be able to share that
with CBS and then them in turncreate such a lovely.
(24:18):
It's a very short story.
I highly encourage anyone tolisten to it.
Thank you so much for postingthat link, and then I will say
that if that whets your appetitefor more of Scott's story,
listen to the first threeepisodes of the podcast.
The first three episodes areScott's journey in depth.
(24:40):
It really goes into what, wherehis mindset was, what were the
sort of pivot points along theway, how he got started and
really how the carousel startedto build some momentum.
So we're so grateful to themfor coming and visiting and
really capturing the magic of it.
(25:02):
And then, for those who areinterested in a little bit more,
check out the podcast.
For those kinesthetic learnerslearners, though come into the
carousel.
Three minute ride's gonna spinyou around.
Everybody is guaranteed to turninto a seven-year-old as soon
as the band organ starts going.
It's just it happens.
Doesn't matter how old you are,how young you are, how crabby
(25:25):
of a mood you're in it just justchanges people, and it was so
lovely to be able to share thaton CBS.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
It is a magical place and I don't say that lightly
because I'll give you an example.
So my adult son and I, brad,he's 35.
He's married.
He's the father of one of mygrandsons.
He and I had a father-son fewdays at Disneyland.
We just flew out together.
(25:58):
We flew out together and Ispent two days at Disneyland.
We were in the studio audiencefor Jimmy Kimmel Live, which was
fun.
Yeah, we really enjoyed that.
But we, of course, were on allthe rides.
I was loaded up on Dramamine soI could ride everything.
We rode the classics, we rodeDumbo together, but I'll just
(26:22):
take Dumbo, for example.
Wonderful classic ride.
It's beautiful, the music's,neat, knowing that something
that Walt Disney had hisfingerprints on.
(26:43):
But all the animals are plastic.
It was last weekend got the book, the new hardcover book, with
all the beautiful pictures andthe descriptions that Scott has
written about every singleanimal that's on the carousel
and the meaning behind each one,even down to the detail of each
(27:05):
one.
To me, yeah, disneyland, disneyWorld, fantastic, love it, love
it, love it.
But when you come to thislittle bitty place relatively
small place compared to that inthe mountains and learn, educate
yourself on the depth of what'sthere, like the somewhere else
piece.
Oh, my goodness, just gets meevery time to even try to
(27:28):
describe that.
There's a lot of depth.
There's just more so than depth.
There's so much love over andover in every piece.
Maybe one more reflection too asa tour guide, when I go out
with people from LA, chicago,new York, people who have no
(27:49):
experience with wilderness atall, no experience with wildlife
at all, it opens their eyes towow, that's just not a picture
of an animal.
There there is a mother elkwith her little baby or twins,
and just to be quiet and watchthem.
(28:11):
Animals are wonderful, andthat's what I've so loved about
reading, learning the stories ofevery single animal, whether
it's one you ride or one that'sin the scaffolding somewhere.
Yeah, Every one of them have astory and a reason that they're
there.
(28:31):
Would you mind sharing, likeit's in the book the koala, the
story?
Yeah, well, I think that that'sjust so touching.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well so and I will actually send you this link,
there was an Atlas Obscuradocumentary that they did
specifically on the story of thekoala and it's so going back to
your original point, scott,before he carved every single
animal, he wanted to researchthat particular animal and,
(29:07):
because this was the late 80s,he did that by going to the
library and he would check outbooks, folk tales, stories.
He would read about theimportance of this animal to
indigenous communities.
What did this animal representin this particular area?
(29:27):
How did this animal move?
Why does it move that way?
And part of that is justbecause Scott's naturally
curious, but part of that isbecause he was recognizing that
he wanted to infuse the workwith that energy.
As you know, because you listento my podcast, I recently
(29:48):
interviewed a woman who's ashamanic artist, who did the
stained glass windows and thecarousel, and she was describing
her definition of shamanic artand essentially she was saying
that shamanic art is essentiallyart that's intended to heal,
(30:13):
art that's intended to heal, andthe way that she takes, the way
that she makes a piece of artthat is healing, is that she
infuses it with energy, sheinfuses it with good vibes, she
channels, she uses her energypractices while she's making the
art, and what's interesting isthat Scott was doing that in the
80s and wouldn't necessarilyconsider himself to be a shaman
(30:34):
at all Not that he's shared withme and so it was interesting to
see that their practices werereally similar and he just
intuitively knew that he wantedto do that.
And so I think that's one ofthe things that people
experience is that you couldtake a robot.
You could make all of thoseanimals the exact same way that
(30:57):
they're made, and the feeling isdifferent.
You're not going to get thesame feeling walking through the
space, and I think that's whatpeople really resonate with.
That's why people drag theirfriends to the carousel when
everybody else has been on Dumbo, they've been on other
carousels and they don't feelthat feeling.
(31:18):
The reason for that feeling isthat each and every animal there
are over 50 animals in thecarousel, not to mention fairies
, not to mention there is somuch to see in there, and it is
all been put there lovingly,with intention, by Scott, even
(31:39):
if he didn't make the stainedglass windows he bumped into
Cypress.
There was that carousel magic.
They made that connection andthen eventually they ended up
working together, and so I thinkthat's something that people
really feel in their bodies whenthey go into the carousel.
You mentioned the somewhere elsewall.
So there is a wall.
(32:00):
The carousel house itself is a13 sided building and there is
some.
I think it's ancient Greeks, Idon't remember, I think it's
Pythagoras, maybe it's some oldGreek guy who essentially the
belief was that 13-sided figureswere auspicious in some way.
(32:22):
They were irrational.
They were sort of these portalsinto another dimension, and
Scott found that interesting andamusing and he decided that he
wanted to take one of the wallsof a carousel house and dedicate
it to somewhere else.
(32:42):
So the idea is that we're allhere, in our physical bodies,
here, and that there's alsosomewhere else and we don't need
to put another name for itother than that, because we're
going to welcome all traditions,all faiths, all beliefs, and on
that wall we have animals thatare halfway in and halfway out.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
There is, scott's leg is on its way in.
I didn't catch that part, ohinteresting.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
So Scott put himself there.
There is a he had learned whenhe was working on the somewhere
else wall that, because ofclimate change, polar bears and
grizzly bears were now able tomate because of changes in in
climate and changes in migrationand mating patterns and all of
(33:34):
that kind of stuff, and so hethought that was interesting.
So there's a polar bear tossinga cub over to a grizzly bear
who's on the other side, and wehave people who have ashes of
family members, have mementos,have little notes to people that
(33:56):
are on the other side, and Ithink that's something that
Scott does really well.
A lot of us we have fear aroundwhat's coming after what we
know to be our current existence, and because he's been in
environments where he's lostpeople very young he's almost
(34:17):
passed very young I think heunderstands the balance between
here and there, and so it's agreat example of a detail in the
carousel that's there that hasso much meaning for people.
We have people come in all ofthe time that want to honor a
(34:38):
family member or a pet.
There is actually a sheepdogwho's halfway in and halfway out
.
One of Scott's friends lost hisdog, oberon, a couple of years
ago, and so Oberon is halfway inand halfway out.
We have Oberon's birthday everyyear at the carousel, so it's
(34:59):
it's a great place to honor thecomplexity of the human
experience, both the joy and thehappiness, and also some of the
more challenging elements ofbeing human.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think in my podcast and yours we
circle quite a lot aroundmindfulness.
It seems like I still don'teven know if I understand it.
I'm still figuring things out.
The older I get, I guess if I'mgetting any wiser I'm figuring
(35:33):
out.
The older I get, the more Ifigure out.
I really don't know, but in mypodcast that I posted this
previous week I talked about howit seems to me that you know
you mentioned about people goingback to their childhood when
they ride the carousel.
Oftentimes, when I'm out on mymotorcycle, especially alone,
(35:54):
and just all is right with theworld, I use the expression.
I return to my eight-year-oldself, because I was eight years
old when I first got a littlemini bike, had a little
lawnmower engine on it likethree horsepower.
Maybe I ride 145 horsepowerthese days, 140 anyway and I was
on three horsepower then.
But yeah, do you.
(36:15):
And again to me, you know Ikeep going back and forth on the
whole mindfulness thing.
Is it zoning in or is it zoningout or what?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
But as far as your personal, maybe your personal
experience at experiencingmindfulness and and is that
related at all to what peopleexperience at the carousel or
maybe what you experience- I dothink it's related and I think
my experience of mindfulness hasalso changed as I've evolved as
(36:49):
a human and I loved your pointlast week on the podcast of
zoning in and zoning out,because I think as a kid it
feels like zoning in, but inadult language, because we get
(37:10):
things all backwards and and it,we, it feels like a zoning out,
but at the same time I feel farmore present than than I did.
Like I think there's there'smindful zoning out and then
there's just disassociating youknow we carry so much baggage
(37:30):
right.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
The older you get, maybe you have a spouse that you
feel responsibility is therecertainly career, certainly
finances, staying healthy, beingable to afford to stay healthy
in this climate that we're inhere in the United States these
days.
But yeah, it's a lot of loads,but as I think back to my 11
(37:51):
year old self, the load was do Ihave gas to go all day?
Of course, pretty much it.
So, it seems.
When people walk into thecarousel and become their a
little bit of their childlikeself, that load goes away and
then enters this mindfulnessLike where I'm at right now and
(38:13):
what I'm experiencing right nowis really real.
It's wonderful, the world iswonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I think what I notice in folks is that most younger
folks don't have a connection toa carousel.
It's not like people in their80s, because carousels were
widely prevalent many, manyyears ago and aren't so much
anymore.
People don't have expectationswhen they walk through the door
(38:44):
and even the folks that havebeen on a carousel it's been a
hot minute, it's been a while,and I think that automatically
forces people to get out ofthose rote, reactive ways of
being.
They don't have expectations.
In the way that I walk into acoffee shop and I know what to
(39:06):
expect.
I know I might not have been inthis coffee shop, but I know
there's a line here and they'regoing to call my name and this,
that the other People don't havethat with carousels and it
forces people to be present andI think that's just something,
naturally, because it's a placeunlike any other.
It forces people to be in thismoment and that's really all you
(39:32):
need in life in general, quitefrankly, but certainly in
mindfulness, is to be present.
There's, you know, somedefinitions of mindfulness would
argue that you know your eyesneed to be closed and you need
to be meditating.
To be meditating, that's not.
(39:52):
I have a more expanded view ofmindfulness, which is really
just being as present toeverything in my surroundings as
possible.
I'm not predicting the future,I'm not rehashing the past, but
I'm here now and I think you seepeople interacting with each
other in different ways.
Families interact differently.
A lot of times we see adultsthat come in and they might be
(40:16):
on their phones.
They definitely don't want toride, they just want to like
peek because they, you know.
And then they, they experiencethe energy of the carousel.
And I interviewed a researcher,a social work researcher from
Denver University, because Iasked him what is going on.
People one of two thingstypically happen when people
(40:38):
come into the carousel theyburst into tears and don't know
why, and I know that becausethey start wiping their face and
they're like I don't know whythis just happened.
Or they want to tell you theirlife story.
People will sit and they willtell you and they're like I
don't know why this justhappened.
Or they want to tell you theirlife story.
People will sit and they willtell you.
They'll say, oh, I haven'tthought about this in so many
years.
And I asked him what was goingon and he said it's actually
(41:01):
because their bodies registerthe carousel as a safe space and
their bodies register it beforetheir minds can catch them in
those old patterns and they justhave all of this tension that
just releases.
Sometimes that's through tears,sometimes that's through
laughing, sometimes that'sthrough, you know, any number of
(41:25):
things seeing their grandkid ina different, different light.
And so our bodies are reallyreally smart and they're able to
regulate themselves if weessentially get out of the way,
and so we see that in thecarousel all the time.
Scott and I talk about sort ofhis creative process in general,
(41:48):
and a lot of what he does isstare out the window.
It's something that artistsdon't like to talk about,
because there's this belief that, you know, we have these old
ways of seeing productivity andsort of the way that we view it
works if you're on a assemblyline, but it doesn't if you're
(42:13):
trying to create art.
That has never existed, and alot of the practice is closing
your eyes and zoning out.
And what do we mean by that?
We mean not paying attention tothese worldly things, these
loads that we've taken on.
Put those to the side for 15minutes or an hour or whenever
(42:37):
we have time, and a lot of whatScott has shared in his process.
Yes, he's carving, yes, he'spainting, but our culture
understands that, we understandthe doing part of it.
But our culture understandsthat we understand the doing.
(43:08):
Park Great.
I like to mountain bike.
We feel similarly when we'redoing those same things and
there's common ground, even ifI've never been on a bike before
, and so I think that youdefinitely see the mindfulness
with people that come in beingpresent.
(43:29):
There's also I need to find, um,there's a woman actually that
manages the train cars next doorand she just did her doctorate
on the carousel and the and andI'm I'm not going to spoil it
cause I don't I I'm trying toget her on the show and she's
almost ready.
She just finished, so she'stired, but once she's done, and
(43:50):
she's almost ready, she justfinished, so she's tired, but
once she's done.
But I want there.
There are other studies thatsay spinning is actually really
good for the brain.
Um, so there's elements ofthat's why little kids you'll
see a lot will spin, and it'sbecause something's gotten
cattywampus in their minds andthey just know that if they spin
it out they'll be fine.
And so I think there are otherelements physiologically that
(44:16):
are at play with the carousel,but I haven't gotten a chance to
tell those stories yet.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, well, you know I think you've already alluded
to it and before we startedrecording I think I alluded to
it as well.
I personally feel a sense ofurgency to spread the news about
Life, can Be Happy that, yes,the news cycle drives me
(44:41):
completely insane and of what'sgoing on I won't get political
at all.
But what's going on in our owngovernment here, wars, going on
(45:03):
in countries outside of ourscope, here, so much suffering,
hard conversations with, well,my own employees, but other
people in differentorganizations, especially in
busy places like the Dallas-FortWorth area, for example, where
I go for business a good bit whoare just suffering, who are
(45:24):
just so stressed out they'retrying to be a good husband or a
good wife and make the kind ofincome that they feel like they
should make, climb up thecorporate ladder as they think
they should, and they're just sounhappy.
And I feel a sense of urgencybehind that because, at least
for me, since I was a little kid, the motorcycling thing getting
(45:48):
on a machine that's reallyreally well built, one that I've
learned to ride really reallywell, and especially living here
in Colorado as you and I do,being able to go into places
where there's nobody there'sgoing to be wildlife, which, in
the motorcycling world, we'vegot to be watching for them
because they will cross the roadright in front of you.
You'll know this.
(46:09):
So Fall River Road, the old,one dirt road in Rocky Mountain
National Park, is open.
One evening when I got free fromwork, I headed straight out
there and rode up Fall RiverRoad.
I ran into some of my friendsfrom Green Jeep Tours that were
giving tours, but I was on mymotorcycle and I was standing up
on the pegs and going aroundthe dirt and I came around the
(46:30):
corner and a 1,500-pound moosewas right there in front of me
when I came around the corner.
But I say all of that becauseyou and I, both with your
cycling and bicycling and withmy motorcycling, we have the
escape from the city and in alot of ways we have learned to
(46:50):
escape from the loads that wecould be carrying, even those
loads being coming from the newcycle, where we don't know
what's going to happen tomorrow,we don't know what's happening
with the economy and so manythings that can just drive
people completely crazy andbecome so completely addictive.
Completely crazy and become socompletely addictive, I feel.
(47:13):
So I'll use the word blast tohave an outlet where, yes, this
other stuff is going on and thisother stuff is reality, right,
and I get that a lot of badstuff, but my whole.
For when I walk away from all ofthat and I go out and escape on
my bike, I'll come back betterequipped to be a better person,
to be able to share my own storywith either one of my employees
(47:37):
or somebody in the organizationthat I work with.
I think I've mentioned itbefore, I work for IBM, so
really, really big company.
But I was on multipleone-on-one meetings that I have
set up with some of my employeesjust this morning.
They're in some of them inIndia, and what I was relaying
we're on video, just like this.
(47:58):
I was relaying to them that Ifeel so fortunate that I get to
not only be face-to-face, livewith someone who's literally on
the other side of the planet,who is 11 hours different from
me, but I get a refresher toknow that I've worked with
people in Japan, all over theworld.
(48:18):
So many people are good people.
There are wonderful, good, goodpeople that are everywhere in
the world, and I just love that.
Where am I going with this?
I have no idea.
I guess where I am going withthat is that I think it's just
so helpful to me to be able totake a motorcycle ride, to show
(48:41):
up by myself or with a friend atthe carousel and having the
privilege of, over the past fouror five years, getting to know
Scott Harrison personally,having coffee together and
knowing that this is a personwho doesn't have all the answers
at all.
But and he went through a really, really hard time but did he
(49:01):
give up and get underneath therock?
No, he didn't.
He threw a series ofcircumstances.
He found that you know what, ifI need to heal myself, maybe I
should start with just trying tohelp out some others, and
that's what I love.
I think he reflects on that inthe Steve Hartman interview that
maybe I can help myself byhelping some others, and that's
(49:24):
what I want to.
Maybe, as we kind of begin towrap up, just to thank you
because you again, you came tothat interview without having to
have an idea for a podcast, butyou've created one that you are
sure you are clearly sharingyour heart and your mind in and
I hear your voice that youreally really do care and you.
(49:46):
It's not about raising fundsnecessarily for the carousel,
but it's for having those smilesand that walk in the door and
people are transformed and thoselittle kids who write the
little notes that this wasmeaningful for me and, like what
you mentioned, people walk inand cry and they don't know why
I get.
I really do so.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
I've been, I've been well, and I think one of the
things that's most interestingto me about Scott's story is
that it's sort of this liketwofold approach.
When he started he was carvingto heal himself that yes, there
(50:38):
is a negative form ofselfishness, but I think as
human beings we've gotten sofixated on what we think other
people want that we're givingfrom an empty cup.
And I think one of the thingsthat was an important lesson for
me to learn was that if you'reexcited about something, if you
can't stop talking about it, ifyou love it so much, that is an
(51:02):
indication that that's a pathfor you.
And Scott's story is proof thatif you first step in and work
through the things and find yourjoy, find your passion he spent
hours on this project, not outof obligation, not out of duty,
(51:25):
but out of love, and then youcan see how that trickled into
the work and it trickles eachand every day into the lives of
others.
So I think sometimes we getconfused and we think, oh,
people want me to be this.
If I'm a good person, I'm goingto do these things and there's
(51:46):
nothing wrong with that.
But I think what I've learnedfrom Scott's story is that when
you come from that full placewhen you fill up your cup and it
literally flows over to otherpeople.
Giving feels different, it feelseffortless, it feels like you
(52:07):
could do it forever.
And I would argue and this ismy own personal opinion, not
Scott's I would argue that yourjoy, your enthusiasm is an
indication that you've pluggedinto something larger than
yourself.
So now you're not just workingwith you, you're working with
God.
All that is spirit.
Whatever word you want todescribe, you have a partner in
(52:30):
whatever it is that you're doing.
And I think everyone wants tolook at the impact that Scott
has had with the carousel 1.2million riders, 74,000 riders
last year alone and the storiesof the way that people were
impacted.
And that's all true, but itcame from that seed of how can I
(52:52):
do something?
That just brings me joy.
The thing is he loves carvinganimals.
He's still carving animals.
The carousel is done.
He has no obligation to us.
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
I know this is an audio, but I'm showing a dove
that is here on my desk.
That was carved by Scott and itwas an appreciation for maybe a
donation or something quite awhile back.
The message he sent with thatis, he said put your worries
into the dove and the dove willfly them away.
So my dove sits here.
(53:25):
I'll put it back where it was.
It sits here facing the window.
This window's right there.
So any number of times as I, asI'm talking to people or
whatever, even within IBM,they'll notice what's the dove
all about.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
So, and I think that's just how, I think it's
just in the little nuances.
I think I learned as a childthere that polite people do
these things, and it's true.
But if the energy behind thosethings that you're doing isn't
(54:04):
with a full and open heart,people can sense that they feel
sort of the obligation of it.
It just doesn't feel the sameway.
And so I think that from hisstory I've just seen that
connection between himsatisfying a deep need within
him and then also seeing thatthat healing can come for other
(54:28):
people as a that.
It's not a zero sum game, it'snot heal me or heal you, it's,
it's both, and I think that'swhat I love sum game.
It's not heal me or heal you.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
It's both, and I think that's what I love so much
about Scott's story.
Yeah, and I got to tell you,allie, it's just now hit me, I
don't know if you can see this.
The picture right behind thedove is Walt Disney.
I didn't plan this at all.
I guess it's a good thing thatI don't plan the podcast very
much.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
And we started this conversation where I mentioned
about going to Disneyland withmy son biting Dumbo and all that
, and it's right next to thedove that Scott had carved and
given to me.
So, wow, this is a magical time.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
I love it.
It's a good story.
Anecdote time.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
I love it.
It's a good story Anecdote,isn't that strange?
Well, hey, I so appreciate yourtime.
I want to.
I want to ask you this maybe,maybe, in closing, you close
every podcast episode of yours,the carousel of happiness
podcast, with don't delay joy.
What does that mean to you?
What do you hope it means toothers?
Speaker 2 (55:50):
What it means to me is that joy is, first and
foremost.
It's the guiding light, ratherthan the tendency that humans
have, at least in modern day, tosort of kick that further down
the road.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I've gotthis list.
(56:12):
Yeah, who saw very, very young,the, the.
He saw very young that weweren't going to be here for a
long time.
He saw mortality.
He didn't, thankfully,experience it, but he had an
(56:33):
understanding that we're nothere for a long time and that
the way forward, particularly inchallenging times like the ones
that we're experiencing rightnow, the way forward is through
joy.
It's not through pushingagainst things that we don't
(56:54):
want.
It's not about pushing againstpeople we don't quite understand
.
It's about finding joy in thismoment, finding an open heart,
finding pleasure because this isour birthright as human beings
is joy, and different spiritualtraditions have said similar
(57:17):
things that we're born with it.
You talked about being aneight-year-old kid on a little
bike.
You didn't need to be told tobe mindful, you just knew that
it felt better to be mindful.
It felt better to feel joy thannot.
And over the course of thehuman experience, we get wires
(57:37):
crossed, and it's my view thatthe human experience is part of
uncrossing those wires,unknotting that ball of yarn, so
to speak, and remembering whatis true, which is that this life
is for pleasure, it's for joy,it's for love.
(57:58):
And there are challenging times, to be sure, but Scott's story
is a great example of how bothof those things can exist in the
same story, in the same body,in the same experience.
Story in the same body, in thesame experience.
(58:20):
And so, for me, that notdelaying joy is just this
reminder of what's really.
It's that touchstone.
You can always come back to it.
It's almost like a tuning forkof like, you know, if you play a
note on a guitar and a piano'snearby, that's going to also
start to vibrate if they're thesame, if they're the same note.
And so, for me, that don'tdelay joy is just that tuning
(58:42):
fork in that moment, am Ialigned with what feels good in
my body?
Am I aligned with what feelsjoyful, or or am I not?
And then, how do I?
How do I get, get that turnback around?
How do I get the cart and thehorse in the right order, um,
(59:02):
and and so that's what it meansto me.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
Well, I absolutely love the carousel.
Um, I can't remember when Ifirst wrote it, but it was
surely not long after it wasbuilt.
Uh, built because my wife and Iused to Well, we still do.
We go up to Nederland quiteoften.
I've motorcycled up there eversince we moved here in 98.
So, yeah, it's been quite along time.
(59:28):
But not only, not only ridingthe carousel is the many times
that, as I have, not only ridingthe carousel as the many times
that as I have, but, mostimportantly, I would say,
getting to know Scott as a realperson, finding out who he is
and having the opportunity tosit down over a cup of coffee
and hearing this most humble ofa person with such a huge heart
(59:49):
for others.
Like, it's not about me, it's,it's about everybody else, and I
love that and I feel the sameheart from you.
And so I just I thank you somuch.
I was uh for those listening toI uh, please go out and give a
listen to the carousel ofhappiness podcast, because it is
wonderful.
(01:00:10):
Just get yourself a beverage ofyour choice, have a seat and
just listen, and I think youwill.
You will be impacted, just likeI have.
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
So, thank you so much oh, thank you, ron, this was an
absolute pleasure and a delight.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Thank you, thank you, thank you when I think of the
carousel and the people thatcome to visit, I'm just reminded
.
There's so many people who needto find a little bit of joy, a
little bit of happiness.
We, as motorcycle riders, knowone way to find a little
(01:00:49):
happiness to find a little joyon our bikes, and isn't it great
that there's also a place to go.
As always, thank you so muchfor listening.
I wish you peace and I wish youlove.
It's just a lovely ride.
Here's a little lovely ride.
(01:01:20):
See me sliding down, glidingdown.
Try not to try too hard.
It's just a lovely ride.
The secret of life is enjoyingthe passage of time.
As motorcycle riders, we love the open road, but it's
even better when that roadleads to an amazing destination.
The Carousel of Happiness inNetherland, colorado, is one of
those magical places I've oftenspoke about on this podcast.
(00:24):
Wow, this place is amazing.
It's a 1910 restored carouselbut, unlike others, it was hand
carved by one man named Scott, aVietnam veteran.
(00:49):
It took him 26 years to carveeach of these animals that are
on this carousel.
It has been his hope, it hasbeen his dream that this
carousel in some way would touchthe hearts of many people.
In some way would touch thehearts of many people.
(01:09):
You know I'm incrediblyfortunate to interview truly
remarkable people from time totime on this podcast, in this
case today, a person who sharesher heart and her love for this
carousel with her own listenersaround the world through the
Carousel of Happiness podcast.
My wife and I are very muchlisteners, love it, and I'm so
(01:32):
glad to share with you today afull-length conversation with my
new friend, allie Wagner, theOutreach Director of the
Carousel of Happiness, who alsohosts their podcast.
She's awesome, so find acomfortable place to be.
I know you'll enjoy thisconversation with Allie Wagner.
(01:54):
Allie, welcome to the podcast.
I'm so glad to have you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
Yeah, so, allie, what?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
is your role at the Carousel of Happiness?
Glad to have you.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm delighted to be here.
So, allie, what is your role atthe Carousel of Happiness?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I am the Outreach Director for the Carousel of
Happiness, which is actually acarousel, so that's one of the
most common questions that weget when people walk into the
space is, they say oh, wait,this is a carousel.
It is a carousel, but it'sactually a really, really
special carousel.
It is a 1910 restored carouselbut, unlike other restorations
(02:37):
of carousels that try to takethe carousel back to its
original form, ours is a littledifferent.
Ours was hand carved by one manover the course of 26 years.
And he carved this work of artbecause when he was a young man,
he was 17 years old he went toVietnam and he was experiencing
(03:01):
as many people do wasexperiencing as many people do a
really, really rough time there.
And his sister had sent him amusic box and this music box he
would press up to his ear inbetween firefights.
And he pressed that music boxup to his ear and it was a way
that he could regulate hisnervous system.
It was a way that he would.
(03:22):
He'd be able to flush some ofthe adrenaline and cortisol out
of his body.
Some of the guys looked atpictures of their wives, some of
them smoked.
He didn't smoke.
He just would put this up tohis ear.
And what he found in thosequiet moments was that he saw
(03:42):
this image of a carousel in amountain meadow and he thought
about what it would be like tobe at a carousel in a mountain
meadow and he didn't have anyrelationship with a carousel.
He wasn't a big carousel person.
This image really came out ofnowhere, seemingly, and it
provided him with a lot ofrelief at a time that he really
(04:04):
really needed it.
And when he came back fromVietnam he was still struggling
the war hadn't quite left him,as is the case for many of our
veterans and he struggled and heeventually decided what would
happen if I tried to recreatethis carousel, what would happen
(04:25):
if I started to piece togetherthis image in real life that had
provided me with so much solaceand peace.
And he started carving slowly.
He was not trained as a carver,he didn't know how to carve.
He learned as he went, helearned through trial and error
(04:49):
and eventually he got the hangof it and eventually he found a
carousel frame and everythingstarted to come together.
15 years later, the carousel hasspun one point almost one.2
million writers, and so my job,going back to your original
(05:10):
question, many, many minutes ago, my job is to tell that story.
My job is to share what work ofart Scott was able to create
and how he was able to create it, because the Carousel now is a
nonprofit organization.
(05:31):
Scott literally built ithimself and then donated it to a
501c3.
And I'm the assistant directorof that nonprofit wing of the
Carousel.
I host the carousels podcastwhere we tell stories about the
carousel, and I know we'll talkabout that on this podcast.
(05:52):
But really my job is to helppeople understand how special of
a place this is.
And one of the reasons I'm soexcited to talk to you
specifically is, as you know,the carousel is located on the
Peak to Peak Highway, which is avery popular and very gorgeous
(06:14):
ride that many riders, yearafter year, pass through the
carousel and a lot of times theydon't realize that we're there.
And I am so excited to talk toyou and share what the carousel
is for motorcycle riders becauseI'd love for them to stop, I'd
(06:35):
love for them to peek in, I'dlove for them to learn more
about the carousel, eitherthrough the podcast or walking
through those doors.
It's a three-minute ride.
It is guaranteed to change yourlife.
Ron can attest to this.
We have so many stories ofpeople that in hearing Scott's
story and seeing that work ofart and being in that space,
(06:59):
they leave different and that'swhat we're really excited about
at the Carousel.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, as I mentioned and as listeners are hearing
your voice, they're probablythinking I know why Ron likes to
talk to people like thisbecause they're so inspiring,
and you really really are.
Oh man, there's so many thingswe could hit on.
But yeah, let's just kind ofstart back the beginning for you
(07:27):
, because I wanted to find out.
We're just getting to know eachother.
We met face to face just acouple of times.
Saw you at the coffee shop justfor a few minutes.
Last week, at the train cardirectly right next to the
carousel, we said hi for aminute, but where did you grow
up?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
eye for a minute.
But where did you grow up?
So I laugh because there's ashort answer.
And then there's the realanswer to that question.
My dad was actually a Navypilot and so we moved around a
lot.
I was born in Maine but we livedon the East Coast, west Coast,
overseas, pretty much anywhereexcept the mountains, which I
eventually came to the mountainsabout almost a decade ago.
(08:09):
But for the longest time Inever lived anywhere that wasn't
on the water.
So that's sort of my consistentthread throughout all of these
places that I've lived is thatthere's always been water nearby
.
But yeah, that's the longanswer to that question.
But part of the reason that Ifelt so drawn to the carousel
(08:31):
and to Scott's story is because,you know, I'm a Navy brat.
My dad was gone a lot.
The work that he did was veryimportant and also very
challenging sometimes to be thechild of someone doing that kind
of work, and so I think there'sa lot about Scott's story that
(08:54):
resonates personally with me,which is part of the reason that
I think the enthusiasm comesthrough.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I'm so curious too.
You are such a good storyteller.
Now we're most certainly goingto have a link on this podcast
episode to reach the carousel.
Tell me if you're thinkingdifferently here.
But start at the beginning, atleast the first couple of
episodes.
Then skip around if you want.
But you really need thatfoundation, right.
(09:21):
But people are going to hearthat you are a very, very good
story writer and especially goodstoryteller in your tone and
your pace, the pausing, thethoughtfulness, all of that.
Where did that come from?
Are you especially trained inwriting, or where did that come
(09:44):
from?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think there's a little bit of both.
I have always been astoryteller.
My parents would tell you thatI was always sort of making up
stories and telling littlemagical stories about unicorns
and all sorts of silly things.
So there's that element, and Ithink there's also the fact that
(10:10):
I think the way that I I justnaturally see the world in
stories, I just naturally liketo make those connections
because they feel reallysatisfying to me.
When I notice somebody isrepeating something that I heard
somewhere else, I get reallyexcited because it feels like
(10:32):
I'm actually in the middle of astory that's unfolding, and so I
think I was just sort of alwaysnaturally wired that way.
I had a very, very differentlife.
I worked as an intelligenceanalyst for the US military as
well as a civilian.
I wasn't an active duty and soI was in a very, very different
(10:56):
world than I was in, than I amin right now.
And then in 2010, much like thecarousel, which is the year
that the carousel opened in 2010, my life shifted to.
I lost both of my parents insix months, and it was something
that I know was one of thosepivot points for me.
(11:19):
And, quite frankly, I was in awindowless cubicle, driving to
work in the dark and drivinghome in the dark, and couldn't
quite figure out how I got inthere and I still don't quite
know how I got there, but I gotthere.
And then, when my parentspassed away, it was this eye
opening opportunity for me toreflect on where it was that I
(11:43):
was going, for me to reflect onwhere it was that I was going,
and I saw everybody who workedfor the government and they
loved it so much and they feltso much passion and love for it,
and I did not.
I loved my job and there wereelements of it that, like I got
to see amazing places and meetinteresting people, but my heart
wasn't in it and I didn'treally know that until that
(12:07):
personal shift.
So what ended up happening?
Because my dad was in the Navyand I'm very comfortable
traveling, I bought a one-wayticket to Nicaragua.
I traveled the world for about18 months because that was what
I knew how to do.
I knew how to be in a foreignplace and navigate it.
So it sounds very brave, but itreally wasn't.
(12:30):
It was just sort of what mybody knew how to do and as I was
traveling this was in 2010,.
So blogs were a thing.
I started writing a blog and Istarted sharing some of the
stories about the people that Iwas meeting, but more than that,
I was sharing stories about howI was changing as I was going
(12:54):
to these different places.
And then I took all of thoseblog posts and I applied to
graduate school with those blogposts and I got a scholarship to
go get my MFA in storytelling.
So well in writing, but really,as, as as I see it, I'm a
storyteller before I'm a writer,and so I did have some training
(13:18):
.
And then, in 2016, I graduated,and usually when you have a
master's in writing, they sayall right, well, you're going to
go teach at a college, nowyou're going to go help other
people, right.
And I was working on a writingproject, I was working on a book
that I just wasn't ready to putdown, and so I decided, instead
of taking a very stableteaching job, I was going to
(13:42):
bartend on a dude ranch inWyoming.
So I had, I did well, so I Iwent to Jackson, but this is how
little I knew about, like themountains, I thought it was in
Colorado.
It was not.
Thankfully, I figured that outbefore I went Right and I fell
in love with the mountains.
(14:02):
I fell in love with climbing upthings and going down things
and putting things on my feetwhen there's snow on the ground,
and I fell in love with wideexpanses of nature something for
(14:26):
my nervous system that I wasn'tquite expecting.
I met my husband, who was alifelong wildland firefighter
and ski bum, and so for the lastdecade or so I've been playing
in the mountains and tellingstories along the way, and just
grateful that I get to tell thecarousel story.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Oh yeah, and for those who don't know where
Jackson is, as we're talkingabout, uh, it's in Northern
Wyoming.
So you have two national parksreally, really close, right.
So you've got the Grand Tetonsare right there, and then just
the other side, like right nextto it to the North, uh, is
Yellowstone National Park.
(15:02):
So, oh yeah, you're in verymuch cowboy country, for sure.
You're also, as you know, inJackson.
You're in movie star country,right, because there's lots of
very, very wealthy people wholove that area and ski at
Jackson Hole.
And I was up there myself,along with my brother-in-law.
(15:24):
He came out from Texas to gomotorcycling with me.
We actually talked about it alittle bit on one of the
episodes of the podcast, but wemotorcycled up through there
through the what was it calledChief Joseph Highway, I think
Also Beartooth Highway, that wasright up in there and, oh yeah,
that's just beautiful and it'svery much wilderness out there
(15:47):
Once you get outside of themovie star homes and then, oh,
my goodness, it is some seriouswilderness out there, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It's absolutely gorgeous.
It's a very, very special place.
There's a reason why peoplewant to experience it.
There's a reason why it's verycommon.
So I originally had onlyplanned to be there for a summer
but, as frequently is the case,I ended up staying.
I was actually in arelationship with.
(16:18):
I was in a long distancerelationship and was intending
to come back, and then iteventually got to the point
where I said you know what?
I'm not coming.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
You had your priorities figured out.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, how did?
How did your career path andlife path and all that bring you
to this place?
So, also so that others know,you're in Nederland, colorado.
I see by your background you'reat the carousel right.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
No, I'm actually not.
My office is painted with neon,orange and pink, so that is why
Ron thinks that I'm in a placedesigned for children.
It is not.
It's where I live.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I meant it as a compliment, but yeah, I thought
it was just.
Oh, you got some kind of coolhippie thing going on in the
background.
That must be the carousel.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, no, it's just my little cool hippie office I
love it.
So how did you?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
find the carousel, or how did the carousel find you?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So the short answer is that there was a job opening,
just like any other job.
But I will say that it did feellike I was called.
I saw the position initiallyand the way that it was written,
I didn't quite feel as excitedabout the position and kind of
let it go by and was looking atother things and things in my
life were starting to shift andwas looking at other things and
(17:46):
things in my life were startingto shift and eventually it just
felt like something that keptcoming back and I think that's
why you know the way that I'mwired to see details and stories
.
You know, if I were telling themovie that is my life, I would
have to acknowledge that yes, itwas somebody else saying, hey,
you should apply for that, orsomebody else sending me the
posting over and over again.
(18:07):
So it was a little bit of justyour standard this is how you
apply for a job.
And then there was a little bitof carousel magic, as I like to
call it, and in the process ofmy interview I really sat down
and I did something a little bitdifferent than I did, than I've
done for interviews in the past, because I'm a reasonably
(18:28):
communicative human and I amempathetic, so I understand
really what people want me tosay, you know, and so I can go
through an interview and not bedishonest in any way, but really
find that common ground.
And for my carousel interview Idid something completely
different.
I didn't plan the answers tothose questions, like I didn't
(18:50):
practice that.
I sat with my eyes closed andmeditated for a few minutes and,
just like Scott's image of acarousel in a mountain meadow, I
thought a podcast, that's whatwould make me more excited about
this, that's how I could bringme to this position.
(19:12):
And so, instead of planning formy interview, I spent all of
the time plotting out differentexample episodes that I thought
would be really fun, and pulleda bunch of stuff that I could
find from the internet and andcreated these little mini
vignettes of what I saw thepodcast could be.
And then I went into myinterview and I said, yes, all
(19:34):
of those things on the list thatyou want me to do, I can do
those and I can do them with anopen heart, but this is how
you're going to crack my heartwide open.
This is how I think that I canbring who I am as a person to
the carousel for its benefit andalso for my own enjoyment.
And credit to my boss, melody,credit to Scott, credit to the
(19:58):
board members, for really andthat's the way it always is at
the carousel and that's one ofthe things that I've noticed in
Scott's story is so many timeshe bumps into the right person
at the right time with the rightskills and doesn't second guess
it, he just says, yes, let'ssee how it goes, let's play,
(20:19):
let's be curious.
And that's something that I'mgrateful for in this work
environment.
And it's been huge to me in myown expression of my own ideas,
it's been huge to me in my ownevolution as a human to have a
place where they just sort ofsay, hey, we see you for what
(20:41):
you are, come be you with us.
And so that's how I ended up atthe carousel.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So the podcast was not in the job description.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
It was not.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Just brought that.
Oh, my goodness, I am so gladyou did, because so I again.
I work part-time, have workedpart-time at at Green Jeep Tours
, nestes Park, colorado.
Nikki Schultz is the ownerthere female owner.
You need to support them and Ilove it.
Love, love, love the job as atour guide when I get a chance
to do that in Rocky MountainNational Park.
(21:13):
But so many times visitors fromeven people coming from Denver,
you know, but we have peoplecoming from all over the country
.
So many have never heard aboutNederland or they know about
Nederland, never heard of thecarousel.
Oh, my goodness, my brain justexplodes.
Then I just tell them you havegot to go to the carousel.
(21:34):
And why should I do that?
Because it'll change your life.
There's one little reason.
But yeah, and I'm so glad thatyou brought to the table this
idea of let's put it on the air,let's just be talking about it
over and over and over again,and the depth that you go into
(21:54):
on your episodes that alwayscircle back to the ending don't
delay joy, don't Delay Joy.
This carousel about happiness,but it's about don't delay joy
too, and I am so, so glad.
I'd love for you to share too,and I'm going to put a link in
here in the show notes too,about your visit with Steve
(22:15):
Hartman from On the Road withCBS.
So you were on TV or Scott wasinterviewed, and then the
carousel Tell us, tell us aboutthat.
I'll certainly have a link toit.
But how, how did you move?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
up so it they actually reached out to us.
It wasn't anything that.
My understanding of the programis that originally it was a
Charles Caroll program way backwhen um and that Steve wanted to
.
Um, steve wanted to bring itback.
And basically he travels theUnited States and he finds
(22:52):
inspiring people that are doinginteresting, inspiring work that
that uplifts others.
And he had heard about thecarousel and he reached out and
came for a couple of days.
They spent most of their time atScott's shop watching him work
(23:15):
and also interviewing him abouthow he got here, what, what drew
him to carousels all of thesort of standard questions.
And then they were able to comevisit the carousel and see it
in action, experience whatpeople experience every day, and
we see it all of the time.
(23:35):
People walk through the spaceand they immediately feel
different and that's somethingthat I noticed immediately when
people walk in, because that'sjust sort of my natural wiring.
But that's been the thingthat's most exciting to me about
the carousel is the energyunderneath it.
(23:55):
Yes, it's a beautiful work ofart and, yes, scott is an
amazing person, but there's ahum, there's a throbbing,
there's a something underneathit, largely because of the way I
think he created it underneathit, largely because of the way I
think he created it, and so tohave to be able to share that
with CBS and then them in turncreate such a lovely.
(24:18):
It's a very short story.
I highly encourage anyone tolisten to it.
Thank you so much for postingthat link, and then I will say
that if that whets your appetitefor more of Scott's story,
listen to the first threeepisodes of the podcast.
The first three episodes areScott's journey in depth.
(24:40):
It really goes into what, wherehis mindset was, what were the
sort of pivot points along theway, how he got started and
really how the carousel startedto build some momentum.
So we're so grateful to themfor coming and visiting and
really capturing the magic of it.
(25:02):
And then, for those who areinterested in a little bit more,
check out the podcast.
For those kinesthetic learnerslearners, though come into the
carousel.
Three minute ride's gonna spinyou around.
Everybody is guaranteed to turninto a seven-year-old as soon
as the band organ starts going.
It's just it happens.
Doesn't matter how old you are,how young you are, how crabby
(25:25):
of a mood you're in it just justchanges people, and it was so
lovely to be able to share thaton CBS.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
It is a magical place and I don't say that lightly
because I'll give you an example.
So my adult son and I, brad,he's 35.
He's married.
He's the father of one of mygrandsons.
He and I had a father-son fewdays at Disneyland.
We just flew out together.
(25:58):
We flew out together and Ispent two days at Disneyland.
We were in the studio audiencefor Jimmy Kimmel Live, which was
fun.
Yeah, we really enjoyed that.
But we, of course, were on allthe rides.
I was loaded up on Dramamine soI could ride everything.
We rode the classics, we rodeDumbo together, but I'll just
(26:22):
take Dumbo, for example.
Wonderful classic ride.
It's beautiful, the music's,neat, knowing that something
that Walt Disney had hisfingerprints on.
(26:43):
But all the animals are plastic.
It was last weekend got the book, the new hardcover book, with
all the beautiful pictures andthe descriptions that Scott has
written about every singleanimal that's on the carousel
and the meaning behind each one,even down to the detail of each
(27:05):
one.
To me, yeah, disneyland, disneyWorld, fantastic, love it, love
it, love it.
But when you come to thislittle bitty place relatively
small place compared to that inthe mountains and learn, educate
yourself on the depth of what'sthere, like the somewhere else
piece.
Oh, my goodness, just gets meevery time to even try to
(27:28):
describe that.
There's a lot of depth.
There's just more so than depth.
There's so much love over andover in every piece.
Maybe one more reflection too asa tour guide, when I go out
with people from LA, chicago,new York, people who have no
(27:49):
experience with wilderness atall, no experience with wildlife
at all, it opens their eyes towow, that's just not a picture
of an animal.
There there is a mother elkwith her little baby or twins,
and just to be quiet and watchthem.
(28:11):
Animals are wonderful, andthat's what I've so loved about
reading, learning the stories ofevery single animal, whether
it's one you ride or one that'sin the scaffolding somewhere.
Yeah, Every one of them have astory and a reason that they're
there.
(28:31):
Would you mind sharing, likeit's in the book the koala, the
story?
Yeah, well, I think that that'sjust so touching.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well so and I will actually send you this link,
there was an Atlas Obscuradocumentary that they did
specifically on the story of thekoala and it's so going back to
your original point, scott,before he carved every single
animal, he wanted to researchthat particular animal and,
(29:07):
because this was the late 80s,he did that by going to the
library and he would check outbooks, folk tales, stories.
He would read about theimportance of this animal to
indigenous communities.
What did this animal representin this particular area?
(29:27):
How did this animal move?
Why does it move that way?
And part of that is justbecause Scott's naturally
curious, but part of that isbecause he was recognizing that
he wanted to infuse the workwith that energy.
As you know, because you listento my podcast, I recently
(29:48):
interviewed a woman who's ashamanic artist, who did the
stained glass windows and thecarousel, and she was describing
her definition of shamanic artand essentially she was saying
that shamanic art is essentiallyart that's intended to heal,
(30:13):
art that's intended to heal, andthe way that she takes, the way
that she makes a piece of artthat is healing, is that she
infuses it with energy, sheinfuses it with good vibes, she
channels, she uses her energypractices while she's making the
art, and what's interesting isthat Scott was doing that in the
80s and wouldn't necessarilyconsider himself to be a shaman
(30:34):
at all Not that he's shared withme and so it was interesting to
see that their practices werereally similar and he just
intuitively knew that he wantedto do that.
And so I think that's one ofthe things that people
experience is that you couldtake a robot.
You could make all of thoseanimals the exact same way that
(30:57):
they're made, and the feeling isdifferent.
You're not going to get thesame feeling walking through the
space, and I think that's whatpeople really resonate with.
That's why people drag theirfriends to the carousel when
everybody else has been on Dumbo, they've been on other
carousels and they don't feelthat feeling.
(31:18):
The reason for that feeling isthat each and every animal there
are over 50 animals in thecarousel, not to mention fairies
, not to mention there is somuch to see in there, and it is
all been put there lovingly,with intention, by Scott, even
(31:39):
if he didn't make the stainedglass windows he bumped into
Cypress.
There was that carousel magic.
They made that connection andthen eventually they ended up
working together, and so I thinkthat's something that people
really feel in their bodies whenthey go into the carousel.
You mentioned the somewhere elsewall.
So there is a wall.
(32:00):
The carousel house itself is a13 sided building and there is
some.
I think it's ancient Greeks, Idon't remember, I think it's
Pythagoras, maybe it's some oldGreek guy who essentially the
belief was that 13-sided figureswere auspicious in some way.
(32:22):
They were irrational.
They were sort of these portalsinto another dimension, and
Scott found that interesting andamusing and he decided that he
wanted to take one of the wallsof a carousel house and dedicate
it to somewhere else.
(32:42):
So the idea is that we're allhere, in our physical bodies,
here, and that there's alsosomewhere else and we don't need
to put another name for itother than that, because we're
going to welcome all traditions,all faiths, all beliefs, and on
that wall we have animals thatare halfway in and halfway out.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
There is, scott's leg is on its way in.
I didn't catch that part, ohinteresting.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
So Scott put himself there.
There is a he had learned whenhe was working on the somewhere
else wall that, because ofclimate change, polar bears and
grizzly bears were now able tomate because of changes in in
climate and changes in migrationand mating patterns and all of
(33:34):
that kind of stuff, and so hethought that was interesting.
So there's a polar bear tossinga cub over to a grizzly bear
who's on the other side, and wehave people who have ashes of
family members, have mementos,have little notes to people that
(33:56):
are on the other side, and Ithink that's something that
Scott does really well.
A lot of us we have fear aroundwhat's coming after what we
know to be our current existence, and because he's been in
environments where he's lostpeople very young he's almost
(34:17):
passed very young I think heunderstands the balance between
here and there, and so it's agreat example of a detail in the
carousel that's there that hasso much meaning for people.
We have people come in all ofthe time that want to honor a
(34:38):
family member or a pet.
There is actually a sheepdogwho's halfway in and halfway out
.
One of Scott's friends lost hisdog, oberon, a couple of years
ago, and so Oberon is halfway inand halfway out.
We have Oberon's birthday everyyear at the carousel, so it's
(34:59):
it's a great place to honor thecomplexity of the human
experience, both the joy and thehappiness, and also some of the
more challenging elements ofbeing human.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think in my podcast and yours we
circle quite a lot aroundmindfulness.
It seems like I still don'teven know if I understand it.
I'm still figuring things out.
The older I get, I guess if I'mgetting any wiser I'm figuring
(35:33):
out.
The older I get, the more Ifigure out.
I really don't know, but in mypodcast that I posted this
previous week I talked about howit seems to me that you know
you mentioned about people goingback to their childhood when
they ride the carousel.
Oftentimes, when I'm out on mymotorcycle, especially alone,
(35:54):
and just all is right with theworld, I use the expression.
I return to my eight-year-oldself, because I was eight years
old when I first got a littlemini bike, had a little
lawnmower engine on it likethree horsepower.
Maybe I ride 145 horsepowerthese days, 140 anyway and I was
on three horsepower then.
But yeah, do you.
(36:15):
And again to me, you know Ikeep going back and forth on the
whole mindfulness thing.
Is it zoning in or is it zoningout or what?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
But as far as your personal, maybe your personal
experience at experiencingmindfulness and and is that
related at all to what peopleexperience at the carousel or
maybe what you experience- I dothink it's related and I think
my experience of mindfulness hasalso changed as I've evolved as
(36:49):
a human and I loved your pointlast week on the podcast of
zoning in and zoning out,because I think as a kid it
feels like zoning in, but inadult language, because we get
(37:10):
things all backwards and and it,we, it feels like a zoning out,
but at the same time I feel farmore present than than I did.
Like I think there's there'smindful zoning out and then
there's just disassociating youknow we carry so much baggage
(37:30):
right.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
The older you get, maybe you have a spouse that you
feel responsibility is therecertainly career, certainly
finances, staying healthy, beingable to afford to stay healthy
in this climate that we're inhere in the United States these
days.
But yeah, it's a lot of loads,but as I think back to my 11
(37:51):
year old self, the load was do Ihave gas to go all day?
Of course, pretty much it.
So, it seems.
When people walk into thecarousel and become their a
little bit of their childlikeself, that load goes away and
then enters this mindfulnessLike where I'm at right now and
(38:13):
what I'm experiencing right nowis really real.
It's wonderful, the world iswonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I think what I notice in folks is that most younger
folks don't have a connection toa carousel.
It's not like people in their80s, because carousels were
widely prevalent many, manyyears ago and aren't so much
anymore.
People don't have expectationswhen they walk through the door
(38:44):
and even the folks that havebeen on a carousel it's been a
hot minute, it's been a while,and I think that automatically
forces people to get out ofthose rote, reactive ways of
being.
They don't have expectations.
In the way that I walk into acoffee shop and I know what to
(39:06):
expect.
I know I might not have been inthis coffee shop, but I know
there's a line here and they'regoing to call my name and this,
that the other People don't havethat with carousels and it
forces people to be present andI think that's just something,
naturally, because it's a placeunlike any other.
It forces people to be in thismoment and that's really all you
(39:32):
need in life in general, quitefrankly, but certainly in
mindfulness, is to be present.
There's, you know, somedefinitions of mindfulness would
argue that you know your eyesneed to be closed and you need
to be meditating.
To be meditating, that's not.
(39:52):
I have a more expanded view ofmindfulness, which is really
just being as present toeverything in my surroundings as
possible.
I'm not predicting the future,I'm not rehashing the past, but
I'm here now and I think you seepeople interacting with each
other in different ways.
Families interact differently.
A lot of times we see adultsthat come in and they might be
(40:16):
on their phones.
They definitely don't want toride, they just want to like
peek because they, you know.
And then they, they experiencethe energy of the carousel.
And I interviewed a researcher,a social work researcher from
Denver University, because Iasked him what is going on.
People one of two thingstypically happen when people
(40:38):
come into the carousel theyburst into tears and don't know
why, and I know that becausethey start wiping their face and
they're like I don't know whythis just happened.
Or they want to tell you theirlife story.
People will sit and they willtell you and they're like I
don't know why this justhappened.
Or they want to tell you theirlife story.
People will sit and they willtell you.
They'll say, oh, I haven'tthought about this in so many
years.
And I asked him what was goingon and he said it's actually
(41:01):
because their bodies registerthe carousel as a safe space and
their bodies register it beforetheir minds can catch them in
those old patterns and they justhave all of this tension that
just releases.
Sometimes that's through tears,sometimes that's through
laughing, sometimes that'sthrough, you know, any number of
(41:25):
things seeing their grandkid ina different, different light.
And so our bodies are reallyreally smart and they're able to
regulate themselves if weessentially get out of the way,
and so we see that in thecarousel all the time.
Scott and I talk about sort ofhis creative process in general,
(41:48):
and a lot of what he does isstare out the window.
It's something that artistsdon't like to talk about,
because there's this belief that, you know, we have these old
ways of seeing productivity andsort of the way that we view it
works if you're on a assemblyline, but it doesn't if you're
(42:13):
trying to create art.
That has never existed, and alot of the practice is closing
your eyes and zoning out.
And what do we mean by that?
We mean not paying attention tothese worldly things, these
loads that we've taken on.
Put those to the side for 15minutes or an hour or whenever
(42:37):
we have time, and a lot of whatScott has shared in his process.
Yes, he's carving, yes, he'spainting, but our culture
understands that, we understandthe doing part of it.
But our culture understandsthat we understand the doing.
(43:08):
Park Great.
I like to mountain bike.
We feel similarly when we'redoing those same things and
there's common ground, even ifI've never been on a bike before
, and so I think that youdefinitely see the mindfulness
with people that come in beingpresent.
(43:29):
There's also I need to find, um,there's a woman actually that
manages the train cars next doorand she just did her doctorate
on the carousel and the and andI'm I'm not going to spoil it
cause I don't I I'm trying toget her on the show and she's
almost ready.
She just finished, so she'stired, but once she's done, and
(43:50):
she's almost ready, she justfinished, so she's tired, but
once she's done.
But I want there.
There are other studies thatsay spinning is actually really
good for the brain.
Um, so there's elements ofthat's why little kids you'll
see a lot will spin, and it'sbecause something's gotten
cattywampus in their minds andthey just know that if they spin
it out they'll be fine.
And so I think there are otherelements physiologically that
(44:16):
are at play with the carousel,but I haven't gotten a chance to
tell those stories yet.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, well, you know I think you've already alluded
to it and before we startedrecording I think I alluded to
it as well.
I personally feel a sense ofurgency to spread the news about
Life, can Be Happy that, yes,the news cycle drives me
(44:41):
completely insane and of what'sgoing on I won't get political
at all.
But what's going on in our owngovernment here, wars, going on
(45:03):
in countries outside of ourscope, here, so much suffering,
hard conversations with, well,my own employees, but other
people in differentorganizations, especially in
busy places like the Dallas-FortWorth area, for example, where
I go for business a good bit whoare just suffering, who are
(45:24):
just so stressed out they'retrying to be a good husband or a
good wife and make the kind ofincome that they feel like they
should make, climb up thecorporate ladder as they think
they should, and they're just sounhappy.
And I feel a sense of urgencybehind that because, at least
for me, since I was a little kid, the motorcycling thing getting
(45:48):
on a machine that's reallyreally well built, one that I've
learned to ride really reallywell, and especially living here
in Colorado as you and I do,being able to go into places
where there's nobody there'sgoing to be wildlife, which, in
the motorcycling world, we'vegot to be watching for them
because they will cross the roadright in front of you.
You'll know this.
(46:09):
So Fall River Road, the old,one dirt road in Rocky Mountain
National Park, is open.
One evening when I got free fromwork, I headed straight out
there and rode up Fall RiverRoad.
I ran into some of my friendsfrom Green Jeep Tours that were
giving tours, but I was on mymotorcycle and I was standing up
on the pegs and going aroundthe dirt and I came around the
(46:30):
corner and a 1,500-pound moosewas right there in front of me
when I came around the corner.
But I say all of that becauseyou and I, both with your
cycling and bicycling and withmy motorcycling, we have the
escape from the city and in alot of ways we have learned to
(46:50):
escape from the loads that wecould be carrying, even those
loads being coming from the newcycle, where we don't know
what's going to happen tomorrow,we don't know what's happening
with the economy and so manythings that can just drive
people completely crazy andbecome so completely addictive.
Completely crazy and become socompletely addictive, I feel.
(47:13):
So I'll use the word blast tohave an outlet where, yes, this
other stuff is going on and thisother stuff is reality, right,
and I get that a lot of badstuff, but my whole.
For when I walk away from all ofthat and I go out and escape on
my bike, I'll come back betterequipped to be a better person,
to be able to share my own storywith either one of my employees
(47:37):
or somebody in the organizationthat I work with.
I think I've mentioned itbefore, I work for IBM, so
really, really big company.
But I was on multipleone-on-one meetings that I have
set up with some of my employeesjust this morning.
They're in some of them inIndia, and what I was relaying
we're on video, just like this.
(47:58):
I was relaying to them that Ifeel so fortunate that I get to
not only be face-to-face, livewith someone who's literally on
the other side of the planet,who is 11 hours different from
me, but I get a refresher toknow that I've worked with
people in Japan, all over theworld.
(48:18):
So many people are good people.
There are wonderful, good, goodpeople that are everywhere in
the world, and I just love that.
Where am I going with this?
I have no idea.
I guess where I am going withthat is that I think it's just
so helpful to me to be able totake a motorcycle ride, to show
(48:41):
up by myself or with a friend atthe carousel and having the
privilege of, over the past fouror five years, getting to know
Scott Harrison personally,having coffee together and
knowing that this is a personwho doesn't have all the answers
at all.
But and he went through a really, really hard time but did he
(49:01):
give up and get underneath therock?
No, he didn't.
He threw a series ofcircumstances.
He found that you know what, ifI need to heal myself, maybe I
should start with just trying tohelp out some others, and
that's what I love.
I think he reflects on that inthe Steve Hartman interview that
maybe I can help myself byhelping some others, and that's
(49:24):
what I want to.
Maybe, as we kind of begin towrap up, just to thank you
because you again, you came tothat interview without having to
have an idea for a podcast, butyou've created one that you are
sure you are clearly sharingyour heart and your mind in and
I hear your voice that youreally really do care and you.
(49:46):
It's not about raising fundsnecessarily for the carousel,
but it's for having those smilesand that walk in the door and
people are transformed and thoselittle kids who write the
little notes that this wasmeaningful for me and, like what
you mentioned, people walk inand cry and they don't know why
I get.
I really do so.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
I've been, I've been well, and I think one of the
things that's most interestingto me about Scott's story is
that it's sort of this liketwofold approach.
When he started he was carvingto heal himself that yes, there
(50:38):
is a negative form ofselfishness, but I think as
human beings we've gotten sofixated on what we think other
people want that we're givingfrom an empty cup.
And I think one of the thingsthat was an important lesson for
me to learn was that if you'reexcited about something, if you
can't stop talking about it, ifyou love it so much, that is an
(51:02):
indication that that's a pathfor you.
And Scott's story is proof thatif you first step in and work
through the things and find yourjoy, find your passion he spent
hours on this project, not outof obligation, not out of duty,
(51:25):
but out of love, and then youcan see how that trickled into
the work and it trickles eachand every day into the lives of
others.
So I think sometimes we getconfused and we think, oh,
people want me to be this.
If I'm a good person, I'm goingto do these things and there's
(51:46):
nothing wrong with that.
But I think what I've learnedfrom Scott's story is that when
you come from that full placewhen you fill up your cup and it
literally flows over to otherpeople.
Giving feels different, it feelseffortless, it feels like you
(52:07):
could do it forever.
And I would argue and this ismy own personal opinion, not
Scott's I would argue that yourjoy, your enthusiasm is an
indication that you've pluggedinto something larger than
yourself.
So now you're not just workingwith you, you're working with
God.
All that is spirit.
Whatever word you want todescribe, you have a partner in
(52:30):
whatever it is that you're doing.
And I think everyone wants tolook at the impact that Scott
has had with the carousel 1.2million riders, 74,000 riders
last year alone and the storiesof the way that people were
impacted.
And that's all true, but itcame from that seed of how can I
(52:52):
do something?
That just brings me joy.
The thing is he loves carvinganimals.
He's still carving animals.
The carousel is done.
He has no obligation to us.
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
I know this is an audio, but I'm showing a dove
that is here on my desk.
That was carved by Scott and itwas an appreciation for maybe a
donation or something quite awhile back.
The message he sent with thatis, he said put your worries
into the dove and the dove willfly them away.
So my dove sits here.
(53:25):
I'll put it back where it was.
It sits here facing the window.
This window's right there.
So any number of times as I, asI'm talking to people or
whatever, even within IBM,they'll notice what's the dove
all about.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
So, and I think that's just how, I think it's
just in the little nuances.
I think I learned as a childthere that polite people do
these things, and it's true.
But if the energy behind thosethings that you're doing isn't
(54:04):
with a full and open heart,people can sense that they feel
sort of the obligation of it.
It just doesn't feel the sameway.
And so I think that from hisstory I've just seen that
connection between himsatisfying a deep need within
him and then also seeing thatthat healing can come for other
(54:28):
people as a that.
It's not a zero sum game, it'snot heal me or heal you, it's,
it's both, and I think that'swhat I love sum game.
It's not heal me or heal you.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
It's both, and I think that's what I love so much
about Scott's story.
Yeah, and I got to tell you,allie, it's just now hit me, I
don't know if you can see this.
The picture right behind thedove is Walt Disney.
I didn't plan this at all.
I guess it's a good thing thatI don't plan the podcast very
much.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
And we started this conversation where I mentioned
about going to Disneyland withmy son biting Dumbo and all that
, and it's right next to thedove that Scott had carved and
given to me.
So, wow, this is a magical time.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
I love it.
It's a good story.
Anecdote time.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
I love it.
It's a good story Anecdote,isn't that strange?
Well, hey, I so appreciate yourtime.
I want to.
I want to ask you this maybe,maybe, in closing, you close
every podcast episode of yours,the carousel of happiness
podcast, with don't delay joy.
What does that mean to you?
What do you hope it means toothers?
Speaker 2 (55:50):
What it means to me is that joy is, first and
foremost.
It's the guiding light, ratherthan the tendency that humans
have, at least in modern day, tosort of kick that further down
the road.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I've gotthis list.
(56:12):
Yeah, who saw very, very young,the, the.
He saw very young that weweren't going to be here for a
long time.
He saw mortality.
He didn't, thankfully,experience it, but he had an
(56:33):
understanding that we're nothere for a long time and that
the way forward, particularly inchallenging times like the ones
that we're experiencing rightnow, the way forward is through
joy.
It's not through pushingagainst things that we don't
(56:54):
want.
It's not about pushing againstpeople we don't quite understand
.
It's about finding joy in thismoment, finding an open heart,
finding pleasure because this isour birthright as human beings
is joy, and different spiritualtraditions have said similar
(57:17):
things that we're born with it.
You talked about being aneight-year-old kid on a little
bike.
You didn't need to be told tobe mindful, you just knew that
it felt better to be mindful.
It felt better to feel joy thannot.
And over the course of thehuman experience, we get wires
(57:37):
crossed, and it's my view thatthe human experience is part of
uncrossing those wires,unknotting that ball of yarn, so
to speak, and remembering whatis true, which is that this life
is for pleasure, it's for joy,it's for love.
(57:58):
And there are challenging times, to be sure, but Scott's story
is a great example of how bothof those things can exist in the
same story, in the same body,in the same experience.
Story in the same body, in thesame experience.
(58:20):
And so, for me, that notdelaying joy is just this
reminder of what's really.
It's that touchstone.
You can always come back to it.
It's almost like a tuning forkof like, you know, if you play a
note on a guitar and a piano'snearby, that's going to also
start to vibrate if they're thesame, if they're the same note.
And so, for me, that don'tdelay joy is just that tuning
(58:42):
fork in that moment, am Ialigned with what feels good in
my body?
Am I aligned with what feelsjoyful, or or am I not?
And then, how do I?
How do I get, get that turnback around?
How do I get the cart and thehorse in the right order, um,
(59:02):
and and so that's what it meansto me.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
Well, I absolutely love the carousel.
Um, I can't remember when Ifirst wrote it, but it was
surely not long after it wasbuilt.
Uh, built because my wife and Iused to Well, we still do.
We go up to Nederland quiteoften.
I've motorcycled up there eversince we moved here in 98.
So, yeah, it's been quite along time.
(59:28):
But not only, not only ridingthe carousel is the many times
that, as I have, not only ridingthe carousel as the many times
that as I have, but, mostimportantly, I would say,
getting to know Scott as a realperson, finding out who he is
and having the opportunity tosit down over a cup of coffee
and hearing this most humble ofa person with such a huge heart
(59:49):
for others.
Like, it's not about me, it's,it's about everybody else, and I
love that and I feel the sameheart from you.
And so I just I thank you somuch.
I was uh for those listening toI uh, please go out and give a
listen to the carousel ofhappiness podcast, because it is
wonderful.
(01:00:10):
Just get yourself a beverage ofyour choice, have a seat and
just listen, and I think youwill.
You will be impacted, just likeI have.
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
So, thank you so much oh, thank you, ron, this was an
absolute pleasure and a delight.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Thank you, thank you, thank you when I think of the
carousel and the people thatcome to visit, I'm just reminded
.
There's so many people who needto find a little bit of joy, a
little bit of happiness.
We, as motorcycle riders, knowone way to find a little
(01:00:49):
happiness to find a little joyon our bikes, and isn't it great
that there's also a place to go.
As always, thank you so muchfor listening.
I wish you peace and I wish youlove.
It's just a lovely ride.
Here's a little lovely ride.
(01:01:20):
See me sliding down, glidingdown.
Try not to try too hard.
It's just a lovely ride.
The secret of life is enjoyingthe passage of time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!