September 18, 2025 • 24 mins
The Peace & Prosperity Podcast is a bi-weekly conversation with Jason Phillips, LCSW, licensed therapist and confidence expert in Raleigh, NC, discussing all things related to self-love and self-confidence, and how we can improve ourselves personally and professionally.
What happens when a narcissist confronts his own reflection? In this raw conversation, retired Navy veteran Leon Walker shares how childhood trauma and unaddressed pain led to decades of manipulative behavior and broken relationships. He unpacks his concept of “The Seven Loveless Traits,” revealing how narcissists use affection and withdrawal to trap partners in toxic cycles. With striking honesty, Leon explains how he intentionally broke down women’s confidence while struggling with his own. He also offers practical strategies for breaking trauma bonds and reclaiming your identity. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand narcissistic patterns—or break free from them.
Plus, remember to join our podcast community—like, share, subscribe, and let us know what topics you want us to cover next. Engage with us, send a DM, or leave a review. Let's continue this journey towards peace and prosperity together.
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Website -https://www.jasonlphillips.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I was in therapy with psychotherapists,
psychologists, psychologists,social workers like ain't
nothing wrong with me and I gointo therapy.
I see all these little degreeson the wall and I was like
getting like mad, like oh soy'all are better than me, y'all
gonna tell me about me.
So two times I walked out oftherapy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast, where we
talk mental wellness,confidence and real-life tools
to help high achievers thrive.
I'm your host, jason Phillips,licensed therapist, speaker
coach, and I'm glad you're here.
Let's get into the episode.
(00:43):
And so, leon, brother man.
First of all, it's good tofinally link up.
No doubt In person.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And you came through for me in the clutch.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh, yeah, for sure I met you.
What four years ago you camethrough for me.
So interviews, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And so one thing I share with you your interview.
We did it like two times.
Yeah, it's been really helpfulto my audience, people that I
work with and coach, and I sendit to people and they're like,
oh my gosh, it doesn't matter ifthey're younger, older, Right,
black Right, white Right.
Professional and that messagereally hits.
(01:25):
So, if you don't mind, justkind of give the people a little
bit of backstory on who you are, your career and then how we
kind of even connected.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, I'm Leon Walker , retired Navy.
Served 32 years from Cleveland,ohio, retired in 2015.
I spent 15 years out at sea.
I've been deployed 11 times.
I was a Navy recruiter for fouryears.
That was a rough patch funpatch, but it was very rough.
I was a drill sergeant in theNavy.
We called it Recruit DivisionCommander and I was also an
(01:56):
instructor in the Navy.
I taught navigation for threeyears, joined the Navy in 1983,
retired in 2015.
I was married for 12 years,destroyed my marriage.
I just destroyed all myrelationships, just plowing
through, didn't care.
I have three kids, three adultkids, two sons and a daughter.
I have a granddaughter that'llbe three years old this August.
I started talking about mypersonality disorder back in
(02:18):
2021 when my ex-girlfriendrecommended she told me, she
said well, god said to startdoing videos on your personality
disorder.
I was like I'm not doing novideo Cause I knew what was
going to happen and it happened.
I got exposed, but she wasexposing me cause she was in the
medical field.
She knew about narcissism, so Iwas hiding but couldn't hide it
cause she was on me.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So let me ask you this Cause one being that
transparent, that takes a lot ofcourage.
I mean, I wasn't ready.
And then you said something.
I want you to expand on it, butyou said you destroyed all of
your relationships.
Yeah, what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So what it looks like is cheating, first of all, and
when you're cheating, you'relying.
When you're lying, you'resneaking.
When you're sneaking, you'reghosting.
When you're ghosting, you'regaslighting all those traits.
And they started identifyingpeople with narcissistic
personality disorder in the 70sand then in the 80s it kind of
blew up and it kind of like wentnot dormant, but kind of
(03:12):
hush-hush.
They were different, everybodywas considered a vulnerable
narcissist.
And then it went to like covertand grandiose and malignant and
so forth and you had all types,other types.
But yeah, and so I just started,when it started in my childhood
, the abuse and neglect andthat's those are traits or
(03:33):
things that happen to people tobecome narcissists or have
narcissistic traits.
It starts with, as you know,abuse and neglect, and so my
abuse and neglect started withpeople that were supposed to
love and protect me, my cousins.
They used to always grab me bymy mouth and kiss me and flirt
with me and touch me.
It went from that to watchingporn.
Then, from watching porn I hadthis obsession with.
(03:56):
First it started withbrown-skinned women.
Because of my cousins I saw thesame brown-skinned women in
porn.
I became addicted to looking atwomen for their body lustfully.
So the love wasn't, it was gone.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Was?
Did any of your partners backthen?
Did they kind of pick up onthis?
Did you hide it?
What was that?
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Well, the sad part about it, a lot of my male
friends were just like me littlekids, little boys, mannish
little boys, managed right.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, so they promoted it.
It was kind of celebrated.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
It was celebrated, you were awarded.
So I got molested by my cousins.
Then I got, then my babysittertook my virginity at eight.
So you think a little boy goI'm telling she took my
virginity.
No, I was like oh, mybabysitter had sex with me last
night, so I was eight and shewas like 14.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So it was like glorifying the trauma.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And then we glorified that trauma, right, right.
And then we glorified thehustlers and the drug dealers
and the athletes.
We didn't glorify men that wentto church.
We didn't glorify men that hadone woman.
We didn't glorify men that waslike playing chess or went to
school.
We made fun of the people thatfell in love with girls.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
We sure did right.
Yeah, one woman.
Like when Dave Hollister cameout with that song, I want to be
a one woman man.
That was not the thing backthen, that's you could call a
simp back then.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Right, you could call a fool, a sucker, weak, and I
was like that was destroyed.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So that childhood trauma turned into wounds as an
adult, With the women that youwere choosing.
Were there certain things aboutthese women where y'all would
attract you?
Either they would be attractiveto you or they would be
attracted to you.
What were some of those thingsthat you would notice in women?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
When they were attracted to me it was before I
even opened my mouth.
So I'm like, oh, she's physical, right, so I don't have to say
much, I don't have to do much.
I'm not going to say much, I'mnot going to do much.
If I said anything, it wasalways something.
The conversation was sexual.
So I never was attracted tospiritual women.
(06:10):
I was scared of them becauseI'm like if I hurt them, god
going to hurt me.
So I was like she go to church.
I don't want nothing to do withthat.
But I wanted the women thatwould drink smoke and if we have
sex, it in a dumpster.
I was cool with it.
So they kind of matched myenergy on a low level anything
so kind of like wow, risk-taking, you're like very risk-taking,
(06:32):
narcissistic people.
Narcissists are risk-takers,very risky, will put your life
at risk, will put your health atrisk.
Every woman I dated I put theirhealth at risk all the time.
They didn't know they didn'tknow they had no't know they had
no clue.
I knew.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So you know we've been knowing each other over the
years.
I work with women and men onbuilding their confidence, the
women that you were dating,meeting and even in long-term
relationships with what wastheir confidence like?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Relationship-wise confidence in me?
They didn't have any, Becauseit didn't take them long to
figure out that I wasn't aboutanything.
I didn't have any morals, noprinciples.
I had by far the loweststandards in a relationship a
man could have, Because I wasattracted to all kind of women.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What about the confidence in themselves, though
?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They were very confident.
But dealing with a man like me,with a personality disorder,
they don't think that they'repretty or beautiful after a
certain period of time and theydon't think they can measure up
because I'm always I was alwayslooking around, I was all.
I had a wandering eye and I wasalways cheating.
So she can't feel confident.
If I'm looking at somebody andwe're at the movie theater,
we're at a restaurant, it didn'tmatter where we were.
(07:40):
I was very flirtatious, I justlike.
It was like something I I'm notgoing to say I couldn't stop.
I chose not to stop it becauseif I got her and she's not going
to leave me I can get her tolook at me.
I could possibly possibly haveher too.
I dated four or five women at atime because I lied to all of
them and they were all yeah,they were all either had low
self-esteem or they were womenthat I felt like that I could
(08:03):
control and dominate.
That wouldn't challenge me.
So the women that challenged meI'm going to get upset because
you're challenging me, but I'malso going to get upset because
you're right about challengingme.
But I didn't want to tell herthat she was right about
challenging me, because I likebeing wrong.
So I get angry, fired up andthen they go.
Okay, leah, I was never violenttowards women, but I was
verbally abusive.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So would you almost in a sense sound like you were
breaking?
If they did have confidence youwere breaking it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Then breaking their confidenceand building mine, because I
broke their confidence and thatwas my comfort zone, so I
couldn't.
When a woman challenged meabout being committed, being
faithful, going to church,having a family cooking meals,
praying together, I, jason, Ihated all that.
I absolutely, and I was likewhat is wrong?
I knew something was wrong meas a kid.
(08:46):
One of my psychiatrists told meI should have been in therapy
as a six-year-old little boy.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, you were those things that are like.
They keep you on the righttrack, like supposed to?
I'm supposed to like thatpraying cooking, just being a
you, you know an individual.
You're like no, that's toochill for me.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
So even now, I have to practicedoing right.
I have to practice, I thinkabout it.
What am I going to say?
Even with my kids, I can feelmyself like getting angry,
wanting to say something nasty,and I go.
The devil is working in me nowBecause he ain't going away.
The devil is working in me nowbecause he ain't going away Even
at now.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
how old are you now?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
59.
I'll be 60 this year.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I knew I'm like because you don't look it.
But I'm like man.
I know, leon, I'm almost 60.
Even at your age now, it'sstill something where you have
to consciously say look.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Oh yeah, people cannot tell me, man, my
girlfriend healed, not if theyhave NPD.
Jason, I went through therapy.
I was in therapy for a year,probably longer.
I got out of therapy in 2016.
I didn't start implementinganything.
I'm sorry.
I got out of therapy in 2015.
I didn't start implementinganything.
(09:49):
I learned in therapy until sixyears later, when my
ex-girlfriend challenged me todo videos about my disorder.
So I was in therapy withpsychotherapists, psychologists,
psychologists, social workers.
Like ain't nothing wrong withme and I go into therapy.
I see all the little degrees onthe wall and I was like getting
mad, like oh, so y'all arebetter than me, y'all gonna tell
me about me.
(10:09):
So two times I walked out oftherapy.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So I'm gonna pause you for a second, because I've
worked with couples andsometimes it's the man who's
doing have NPD woman says hey,we got some relationship issues
and I'm like okay, here we go,and a couple times the man they
stormed the heck up out of therebecause so I'm glad you said
that.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, my ex-wife and I we talked about this just last
year I've been divorced forthis year to be 17 years
divorced, I got divorced in 2007.
So, going on 18 years, justlast year she said, leon, do you
remember going through marriagecounseling?
And I said kind of sort ofright.
So if you go to marriagecounseling, that's a, it's a big
(10:53):
deal and you're sitting therewith your wife or husband and
the counselor for hours everyweek.
Okay, so this is something thatyou should not forget.
Okay, but I don't rememberanything about therapy, except
for her saying my job is goingto pay for it.
We have therapy tomorrow andthis is the address.
So we get in the car.
I remember getting in the carand I remember going there and
(11:15):
when I started thinking about it, jason, the only thing I
remember is the couch and I wasthe only one there.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So you were physically there, but mentally
you were gone.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And so I was gone, and so that means that my
psychologist told me thattherapy wasn't marriage.
Counseling wasn't a part of myagenda.
I volunteered to go with myex-wife when I got there.
I was checked out before I gotthere.
So my ex-wife told me she saidLeon, I told him, I told the
counselor to call me Double ODouble O is my nickname and she
(11:46):
said when he didn't call meDouble O, I went off.
I don't even remember that, andso in my videos that I talk now
I say I've never had a blackcounselor and my ex-wife said he
was a black male.
I don't remember him at allbecause I checked out before I
checked into counseling and Idon't remember none of that.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
One thing I do can say, like working with men and
couples, relationships with themen, that's diagnosed with NPD,
again, well-dressed,well-groomed, that's it.
Sometimes the cologne is tooloud, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, I know, but they come in there for the
appeal to look, because when Iwent into therapy with females,
there was one that I wasattracted to.
It was a white lady with bigbreasts.
The other white women I wasn'tattracted to, so it wasn't her
that I was attracted to, I wasattracted to her body.
Going back to the porn that Iwas watching, I saw big breasts.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So let's fast forward .
You've been to therapy 2021,you started making videos.
You started implementing thethings you learned in therapy.
You write the book the SevenLoveless Traits.
Can you break that down andtalk about that a little bit
more?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So the Seven Loveless Traits.
I know that it was all this isGod, because I never heard of
that, didn't want to write anybooks after I wrote my first
memoir, broken.
But the seven loveless traits.
We talk about love languagesokay, it's a very popular book,
love languages.
So physical touch,communication, gifts, gift
(13:12):
giving, receiving, whatever.
And so I say, what would theopposite of that look like?
Right, if it's physical touch,would it be in a relationship
where you're touchless?
Ok, ok, our skin is the largestorgan, and if a woman's not
touched months, weeks, years,she's going to feel neglected.
Right, she's going to loseconfidence.
Ok, and so I starved women.
(13:35):
By the first 45 days I'm goingto touch the hell out of her all
over because I want her tothink about me and feel me when
I'm not around her.
But after that there was nomore touching.
Leon used to be, we used tocuddle, we sold hands.
I hated that stuff, but I didit.
Love by me okay, but theloveless traits.
A loveless trait is nottouching, untouched so removing
(13:56):
that touch, removing it.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Now they're used to being cuddling and being
affectionate, PDA and all thatstops.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It stops because that's a loveless trait,
communication a love language.
Loveless trait communication isnot communicating.
Bad communication, name callingputting down gaslighting, right
Another love language.
Let's say uh, gift giving, giftreceiving, whatever, right
don't in the beginning, lovebombing.
(14:25):
You're gonna buy tiffanybracelets, the perfume, right,
nice shoes, whatever you see.
You check her out every womanI've been when I checked her out
, see what she liked, what shehad, what's in the closet, and
I'm going to do something likethat, something different though
.
But then you stop giving gifts,you stop complimenting, right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So then again their confidence goes down because
they're like am I not prettyanymore?
There you go.
I need to get some work done,like all these things.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
All of that.
And then I dated this woman,very pretty, very pretty.
I've been knowing her since Iwas 15 years old.
She was beautiful, 14, 13, 14.
Anyway, we didn't mess arounduntil years later and she'd been
in a very abusive relationshipand she used to wear a
foundation.
And I said why you got on afoundation?
You're pretty, pretty skin andeverything.
(15:12):
She said because her husband atthe time, her ex-husband told
her that she was ugly, or madeher feel ugly and she would
believe.
I said, how do you believe that?
And I'm right here telling youpretty.
But she couldn't trust me.
That wasn't nothing, right.
So he made her feel ugly, soshe painted it over her.
She painted her face over.
(15:37):
I mean, the foundation was likebeige and her neck was like
brown.
Right, I'm like, do you, do yousee?
Do you see what I see?
But women can be so hurt and sobeat down mentally that it's
not even physical, it's mental,that they don't see what I see
in the mirror.
So she would always wear thisfoundation.
Her face was one color, herneck was one color.
She couldn't stop doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Oh man, it's kind of like the black and white video
from Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Exactly Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
But no, all jokes aside, it was like they're doing
a lot of things to compensatefor what they think they don't
have.
But in actuality, these women,they were attractive but they
didn't feel like it anymore andthey were still attractive.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
But then the worst part about it, jason, is that
even though years after they getdivorced or they're not with
that guy that made them feelugly, it's still a struggle for
them to think that they'repretty again.
And then when a guy says you'repretty, they don't trust it
because the beat down about thembeing so ugly or not being
complimented enough they startto believe it.
So they paint themselves into acorner and when she would put
(16:38):
that foundation on, she was atotally different person, and
when she take it off, she was atotally different person.
On, she was a totally differentperson, and when she'd take it
off, she was a totally differentperson.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Had you ever doubled back?
Or women, have they everdoubled back?
Where y'all are talking to eachother, things are going well,
but then, all of a sudden, youlove mama, so it's not going
well, but then do y'all ever getback together and it's like
what happens.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It was just people women that were just like me
probably have a few narcissistictraits, but the ones that I
double back that that were likeme, I liked them but I didn't
love them because they were justlike me.
So I know I ain't gonna loveher because all she's gonna do
is try to hurt me.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So I got so used to not loving is it almost like
when you see them and they saylike, hey, let let's work this
out again.
They don't work for them.
No, I remember, because yousaid it before, like never take
what did you say?
Never go back, something likethat.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Better not, because if okay, let's say she's not
like me, right, but she likes meRight.
But she don't have thepersonality disorder that I have
.
I'm in control of her emotions,because women will not
disrespect a man that they'rephysically attracted to.
They won't, because they don'twant to lose that chemistry.
They don't want to lose thatfeeling that I gave her.
Oh, we have chemistry.
I've never felt like thatbefore.
(17:53):
Nobody's never talked to melike that before.
Nobody's ever kissed me ortested me like that before.
So if she's physically attractedto a guy's body his penis, his
hands, his teeth, his beard,whatever his body, his penis,
his hands, his teeth, his beard,whatever his looks She'll take
that over a guy that's not asgood looking but that won't
cheat on her.
She'll take me, my type, allday long.
And so what happens is I knowshe's going to be there.
I can leave in a month and comeback.
(18:14):
She ain't going anywhereBecause of that chemistry we
have.
That's what she chooses to like.
It makes her feel good, eventhough I'm dysfunctional, I'm
narcissistic as hell, I'mhateful before therapy.
I'm hateful and mean and grumpyand arrogant and I'm abusive.
She'll take that.
But this guy next door thatcuts her grass, cleans her
dumpsters, leaves her littlenotes on the front door, won't
(18:37):
cheat, sees she needs a ride towork.
She don't want him.
So the women that come back,they know what it is, they're
searching for that.
Oh no, leon, you're a buttholebut you know you're kind of
risky, you're kind ofadventurous.
But I like you Because I knewhow to get to something inside
of this soul or spirit whichwasn't right.
But they had addictions too andwe shared that.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Somebody's going to.
It's almost like that traumabonding thing.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Exactly, somebody's gonna, it's almost like that,
that trauma bonding, thenexactly exactly so.
If a woman can't trauma bondwith a man she really does,
she's not gonna like him.
And I'm not being disrespectful, but a lot of times we have
toxic, not tonic, inrelationships and we we like the
toxic because it gets you knowhow people like wake up, break
up to make up yeah, they breakup that makeup sex, yep.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
So let me ask you this so there's going to be some
women listening and they'relike, okay, I'm trying to get
out of this mindset, I'm tryingto heal, I don't want to make
the same mistakes, because theykeep going back to their ex.
The ex is doing them dirty,they're cheating, they're lying,
they're putting them down, butthey keep going back.
If you could give them probablylet's say three things they
(19:45):
should do, what would you saythose three things to be able to
work on themselves.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
First and foremost, don't do it for yourself,
because you can do it foryourself and you get your
feelings served.
You go in the corner, you cryin the bathroom, whatever, and
you get over it.
Tell your daughter, your son,your grandmother that's on a
dying bed, your uncle that youlove, your grandfather that's
close to you, that I'm not goingto be with Leon anymore.
If you could tell that personthat you truly love, that you're
(20:09):
not going to be with them.
But if you let them down, it'sgoing to hurt Because you let
somebody down that you love andthey say well, mom, you said you
weren't going to be with Leon,no more.
And I saw you calling him.
Then your daughter runs offcrying.
Now Leon calling them.
Then your daughter runs offcrying.
(20:30):
Now Leon is hurting not onlyyou but your daughter,
disrupting your household.
So I would say don't do it foryourself, do it for somebody
that you love.
First, number one is realizing.
I saw a quote that said peopledie at 25, but they're not
buried until 75.
Don't die early and then justlive your life until you get
buried.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Y'all gonna have to rewind on that because he
touched on it.
What's number three?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Number three is realizing that you are not
nowhere near tapping into yourpotential by being with this
person.
That's keeping you from yourpotential.
Same thing with dying and notbeing buried until 75.
Your life stops at that point.
You chose to bring somebodyinto your life.
That's very, very dysfunctional.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So, essentially, they could be more and do more if
they work on themselves.
And these are some reallytangible things to do.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
They can People go.
The problem is people say I'menrolled in therapy and it's
going, it's working pretty good.
They go to therapy for an hour,Then they go home to be with a
person for 19 hours.
That hasn't been therapy.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So it's kind of productive All right, you're to
be with a person for 19 hoursthat hasn't been therapy, so
it's kind of productive.
All right, man, you're killingme right now.
Where can people becausethey're going to need to know
where can they get your book,where can they follow you, and
all of that.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
All my books are on Amazon.
My first book is called Broken.
It's a memoir about mychildhood.
Second book was called LoveShip.
Third book is called SevenLoveless Traits and I did a bit
biography too.
But that's not on any Amazon orBarnes Noble.
But those books are on BarnesNoble.
I have a YouTube channel,instagram, facebook and TikTok
under Leon R Walker Jr.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Awesome.
I'm going to put all that inthe show notes too.
Thank you, man, this has beengreat.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, no problem.
Thanks for having me, mybrother.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yes, sir.
Thanks for tuning in to thepeace and prosperity podcast.
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.
Your support helps us keepthese conversations going.
And remember you don't have todo it all alone.
If you're navigating stress,burnout or just need a space to
(22:28):
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Connect with me atjasonlphillipscom or send me a
message on social media.
Until next time, protect yourpeace, pursue your purpose and
keep showing up for you.
Be blessed.
So I was in therapy with psychotherapists,
psychologists, psychologists,social workers like ain't
nothing wrong with me and I gointo therapy.
I see all these little degreeson the wall and I was like
getting like mad, like oh soy'all are better than me, y'all
gonna tell me about me.
So two times I walked out oftherapy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast, where we
talk mental wellness,confidence and real-life tools
to help high achievers thrive.
I'm your host, jason Phillips,licensed therapist, speaker
coach, and I'm glad you're here.
Let's get into the episode.
(00:43):
And so, leon, brother man.
First of all, it's good tofinally link up.
No doubt In person.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And you came through for me in the clutch.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh, yeah, for sure I met you.
What four years ago you camethrough for me.
So interviews, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And so one thing I share with you your interview.
We did it like two times.
Yeah, it's been really helpfulto my audience, people that I
work with and coach, and I sendit to people and they're like,
oh my gosh, it doesn't matter ifthey're younger, older, Right,
black Right, white Right.
Professional and that messagereally hits.
(01:25):
So, if you don't mind, justkind of give the people a little
bit of backstory on who you are, your career and then how we
kind of even connected.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, I'm Leon Walker , retired Navy.
Served 32 years from Cleveland,ohio, retired in 2015.
I spent 15 years out at sea.
I've been deployed 11 times.
I was a Navy recruiter for fouryears.
That was a rough patch funpatch, but it was very rough.
I was a drill sergeant in theNavy.
We called it Recruit DivisionCommander and I was also an
(01:56):
instructor in the Navy.
I taught navigation for threeyears, joined the Navy in 1983,
retired in 2015.
I was married for 12 years,destroyed my marriage.
I just destroyed all myrelationships, just plowing
through, didn't care.
I have three kids, three adultkids, two sons and a daughter.
I have a granddaughter that'llbe three years old this August.
I started talking about mypersonality disorder back in
(02:18):
2021 when my ex-girlfriendrecommended she told me, she
said well, god said to startdoing videos on your personality
disorder.
I was like I'm not doing novideo Cause I knew what was
going to happen and it happened.
I got exposed, but she wasexposing me cause she was in the
medical field.
She knew about narcissism, so Iwas hiding but couldn't hide it
cause she was on me.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So let me ask you this Cause one being that
transparent, that takes a lot ofcourage.
I mean, I wasn't ready.
And then you said something.
I want you to expand on it, butyou said you destroyed all of
your relationships.
Yeah, what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So what it looks like is cheating, first of all, and
when you're cheating, you'relying.
When you're lying, you'resneaking.
When you're sneaking, you'reghosting.
When you're ghosting, you'regaslighting all those traits.
And they started identifyingpeople with narcissistic
personality disorder in the 70sand then in the 80s it kind of
blew up and it kind of like wentnot dormant, but kind of
(03:12):
hush-hush.
They were different, everybodywas considered a vulnerable
narcissist.
And then it went to like covertand grandiose and malignant and
so forth and you had all types,other types.
But yeah, and so I just started,when it started in my childhood
, the abuse and neglect andthat's those are traits or
(03:33):
things that happen to people tobecome narcissists or have
narcissistic traits.
It starts with, as you know,abuse and neglect, and so my
abuse and neglect started withpeople that were supposed to
love and protect me, my cousins.
They used to always grab me bymy mouth and kiss me and flirt
with me and touch me.
It went from that to watchingporn.
Then, from watching porn I hadthis obsession with.
(03:56):
First it started withbrown-skinned women.
Because of my cousins I saw thesame brown-skinned women in
porn.
I became addicted to looking atwomen for their body lustfully.
So the love wasn't, it was gone.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Was?
Did any of your partners backthen?
Did they kind of pick up onthis?
Did you hide it?
What was that?
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Well, the sad part about it, a lot of my male
friends were just like me littlekids, little boys, mannish
little boys, managed right.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, so they promoted it.
It was kind of celebrated.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
It was celebrated, you were awarded.
So I got molested by my cousins.
Then I got, then my babysittertook my virginity at eight.
So you think a little boy goI'm telling she took my
virginity.
No, I was like oh, mybabysitter had sex with me last
night, so I was eight and shewas like 14.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So it was like glorifying the trauma.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And then we glorified that trauma, right, right.
And then we glorified thehustlers and the drug dealers
and the athletes.
We didn't glorify men that wentto church.
We didn't glorify men that hadone woman.
We didn't glorify men that waslike playing chess or went to
school.
We made fun of the people thatfell in love with girls.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
We sure did right.
Yeah, one woman.
Like when Dave Hollister cameout with that song, I want to be
a one woman man.
That was not the thing backthen, that's you could call a
simp back then.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Right, you could call a fool, a sucker, weak, and I
was like that was destroyed.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So that childhood trauma turned into wounds as an
adult, With the women that youwere choosing.
Were there certain things aboutthese women where y'all would
attract you?
Either they would be attractiveto you or they would be
attracted to you.
What were some of those thingsthat you would notice in women?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
When they were attracted to me it was before I
even opened my mouth.
So I'm like, oh, she's physical, right, so I don't have to say
much, I don't have to do much.
I'm not going to say much, I'mnot going to do much.
If I said anything, it wasalways something.
The conversation was sexual.
So I never was attracted tospiritual women.
(06:10):
I was scared of them becauseI'm like if I hurt them, god
going to hurt me.
So I was like she go to church.
I don't want nothing to do withthat.
But I wanted the women thatwould drink smoke and if we have
sex, it in a dumpster.
I was cool with it.
So they kind of matched myenergy on a low level anything
so kind of like wow, risk-taking, you're like very risk-taking,
(06:32):
narcissistic people.
Narcissists are risk-takers,very risky, will put your life
at risk, will put your health atrisk.
Every woman I dated I put theirhealth at risk all the time.
They didn't know they didn'tknow they had no't know they had
no clue.
I knew.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So you know we've been knowing each other over the
years.
I work with women and men onbuilding their confidence, the
women that you were dating,meeting and even in long-term
relationships with what wastheir confidence like?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Relationship-wise confidence in me?
They didn't have any, Becauseit didn't take them long to
figure out that I wasn't aboutanything.
I didn't have any morals, noprinciples.
I had by far the loweststandards in a relationship a
man could have, Because I wasattracted to all kind of women.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What about the confidence in themselves, though
?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They were very confident.
But dealing with a man like me,with a personality disorder,
they don't think that they'repretty or beautiful after a
certain period of time and theydon't think they can measure up
because I'm always I was alwayslooking around, I was all.
I had a wandering eye and I wasalways cheating.
So she can't feel confident.
If I'm looking at somebody andwe're at the movie theater,
we're at a restaurant, it didn'tmatter where we were.
(07:40):
I was very flirtatious, I justlike.
It was like something I I'm notgoing to say I couldn't stop.
I chose not to stop it becauseif I got her and she's not going
to leave me I can get her tolook at me.
I could possibly possibly haveher too.
I dated four or five women at atime because I lied to all of
them and they were all yeah,they were all either had low
self-esteem or they were womenthat I felt like that I could
(08:03):
control and dominate.
That wouldn't challenge me.
So the women that challenged meI'm going to get upset because
you're challenging me, but I'malso going to get upset because
you're right about challengingme.
But I didn't want to tell herthat she was right about
challenging me, because I likebeing wrong.
So I get angry, fired up andthen they go.
Okay, leah, I was never violenttowards women, but I was
verbally abusive.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So would you almost in a sense sound like you were
breaking?
If they did have confidence youwere breaking it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Then breaking their confidenceand building mine, because I
broke their confidence and thatwas my comfort zone, so I
couldn't.
When a woman challenged meabout being committed, being
faithful, going to church,having a family cooking meals,
praying together, I, jason, Ihated all that.
I absolutely, and I was likewhat is wrong?
I knew something was wrong meas a kid.
(08:46):
One of my psychiatrists told meI should have been in therapy
as a six-year-old little boy.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, you were those things that are like.
They keep you on the righttrack, like supposed to?
I'm supposed to like thatpraying cooking, just being a
you, you know an individual.
You're like no, that's toochill for me.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
So even now, I have to practicedoing right.
I have to practice, I thinkabout it.
What am I going to say?
Even with my kids, I can feelmyself like getting angry,
wanting to say something nasty,and I go.
The devil is working in me nowBecause he ain't going away.
The devil is working in me nowbecause he ain't going away Even
at now.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
how old are you now?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
59.
I'll be 60 this year.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I knew I'm like because you don't look it.
But I'm like man.
I know, leon, I'm almost 60.
Even at your age now, it'sstill something where you have
to consciously say look.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Oh yeah, people cannot tell me, man, my
girlfriend healed, not if theyhave NPD.
Jason, I went through therapy.
I was in therapy for a year,probably longer.
I got out of therapy in 2016.
I didn't start implementinganything.
I'm sorry.
I got out of therapy in 2015.
I didn't start implementinganything.
(09:49):
I learned in therapy until sixyears later, when my
ex-girlfriend challenged me todo videos about my disorder.
So I was in therapy withpsychotherapists, psychologists,
psychologists, social workers.
Like ain't nothing wrong withme and I go into therapy.
I see all the little degrees onthe wall and I was like getting
mad, like oh, so y'all arebetter than me, y'all gonna tell
me about me.
(10:09):
So two times I walked out oftherapy.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So I'm gonna pause you for a second, because I've
worked with couples andsometimes it's the man who's
doing have NPD woman says hey,we got some relationship issues
and I'm like okay, here we go,and a couple times the man they
stormed the heck up out of therebecause so I'm glad you said
that.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, my ex-wife and I we talked about this just last
year I've been divorced forthis year to be 17 years
divorced, I got divorced in 2007.
So, going on 18 years, justlast year she said, leon, do you
remember going through marriagecounseling?
And I said kind of sort ofright.
So if you go to marriagecounseling, that's a, it's a big
(10:53):
deal and you're sitting therewith your wife or husband and
the counselor for hours everyweek.
Okay, so this is something thatyou should not forget.
Okay, but I don't rememberanything about therapy, except
for her saying my job is goingto pay for it.
We have therapy tomorrow andthis is the address.
So we get in the car.
I remember getting in the carand I remember going there and
(11:15):
when I started thinking about it, jason, the only thing I
remember is the couch and I wasthe only one there.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So you were physically there, but mentally
you were gone.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And so I was gone, and so that means that my
psychologist told me thattherapy wasn't marriage.
Counseling wasn't a part of myagenda.
I volunteered to go with myex-wife when I got there.
I was checked out before I gotthere.
So my ex-wife told me she saidLeon, I told him, I told the
counselor to call me Double ODouble O is my nickname and she
(11:46):
said when he didn't call meDouble O, I went off.
I don't even remember that, andso in my videos that I talk now
I say I've never had a blackcounselor and my ex-wife said he
was a black male.
I don't remember him at allbecause I checked out before I
checked into counseling and Idon't remember none of that.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
One thing I do can say, like working with men and
couples, relationships with themen, that's diagnosed with NPD,
again, well-dressed,well-groomed, that's it.
Sometimes the cologne is tooloud, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, I know, but they come in there for the
appeal to look, because when Iwent into therapy with females,
there was one that I wasattracted to.
It was a white lady with bigbreasts.
The other white women I wasn'tattracted to, so it wasn't her
that I was attracted to, I wasattracted to her body.
Going back to the porn that Iwas watching, I saw big breasts.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So let's fast forward .
You've been to therapy 2021,you started making videos.
You started implementing thethings you learned in therapy.
You write the book the SevenLoveless Traits.
Can you break that down andtalk about that a little bit
more?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So the Seven Loveless Traits.
I know that it was all this isGod, because I never heard of
that, didn't want to write anybooks after I wrote my first
memoir, broken.
But the seven loveless traits.
We talk about love languagesokay, it's a very popular book,
love languages.
So physical touch,communication, gifts, gift
(13:12):
giving, receiving, whatever.
And so I say, what would theopposite of that look like?
Right, if it's physical touch,would it be in a relationship
where you're touchless?
Ok, ok, our skin is the largestorgan, and if a woman's not
touched months, weeks, years,she's going to feel neglected.
Right, she's going to loseconfidence.
Ok, and so I starved women.
(13:35):
By the first 45 days I'm goingto touch the hell out of her all
over because I want her tothink about me and feel me when
I'm not around her.
But after that there was nomore touching.
Leon used to be, we used tocuddle, we sold hands.
I hated that stuff, but I didit.
Love by me okay, but theloveless traits.
A loveless trait is nottouching, untouched so removing
(13:56):
that touch, removing it.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Now they're used to being cuddling and being
affectionate, PDA and all thatstops.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It stops because that's a loveless trait,
communication a love language.
Loveless trait communication isnot communicating.
Bad communication, name callingputting down gaslighting, right
Another love language.
Let's say uh, gift giving, giftreceiving, whatever, right
don't in the beginning, lovebombing.
(14:25):
You're gonna buy tiffanybracelets, the perfume, right,
nice shoes, whatever you see.
You check her out every womanI've been when I checked her out
, see what she liked, what shehad, what's in the closet, and
I'm going to do something likethat, something different though
.
But then you stop giving gifts,you stop complimenting, right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So then again their confidence goes down because
they're like am I not prettyanymore?
There you go.
I need to get some work done,like all these things.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
All of that.
And then I dated this woman,very pretty, very pretty.
I've been knowing her since Iwas 15 years old.
She was beautiful, 14, 13, 14.
Anyway, we didn't mess arounduntil years later and she'd been
in a very abusive relationshipand she used to wear a
foundation.
And I said why you got on afoundation?
You're pretty, pretty skin andeverything.
(15:12):
She said because her husband atthe time, her ex-husband told
her that she was ugly, or madeher feel ugly and she would
believe.
I said, how do you believe that?
And I'm right here telling youpretty.
But she couldn't trust me.
That wasn't nothing, right.
So he made her feel ugly, soshe painted it over her.
She painted her face over.
(15:37):
I mean, the foundation was likebeige and her neck was like
brown.
Right, I'm like, do you, do yousee?
Do you see what I see?
But women can be so hurt and sobeat down mentally that it's
not even physical, it's mental,that they don't see what I see
in the mirror.
So she would always wear thisfoundation.
Her face was one color, herneck was one color.
She couldn't stop doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Oh man, it's kind of like the black and white video
from Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Exactly Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
But no, all jokes aside, it was like they're doing
a lot of things to compensatefor what they think they don't
have.
But in actuality, these women,they were attractive but they
didn't feel like it anymore andthey were still attractive.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
But then the worst part about it, jason, is that
even though years after they getdivorced or they're not with
that guy that made them feelugly, it's still a struggle for
them to think that they'repretty again.
And then when a guy says you'repretty, they don't trust it
because the beat down about thembeing so ugly or not being
complimented enough they startto believe it.
So they paint themselves into acorner and when she would put
(16:38):
that foundation on, she was atotally different person, and
when she take it off, she was atotally different person.
On, she was a totally differentperson, and when she'd take it
off, she was a totally differentperson.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Had you ever doubled back?
Or women, have they everdoubled back?
Where y'all are talking to eachother, things are going well,
but then, all of a sudden, youlove mama, so it's not going
well, but then do y'all ever getback together and it's like
what happens.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It was just people women that were just like me
probably have a few narcissistictraits, but the ones that I
double back that that were likeme, I liked them but I didn't
love them because they were justlike me.
So I know I ain't gonna loveher because all she's gonna do
is try to hurt me.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So I got so used to not loving is it almost like
when you see them and they saylike, hey, let let's work this
out again.
They don't work for them.
No, I remember, because yousaid it before, like never take
what did you say?
Never go back, something likethat.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Better not, because if okay, let's say she's not
like me, right, but she likes meRight.
But she don't have thepersonality disorder that I have
.
I'm in control of her emotions,because women will not
disrespect a man that they'rephysically attracted to.
They won't, because they don'twant to lose that chemistry.
They don't want to lose thatfeeling that I gave her.
Oh, we have chemistry.
I've never felt like thatbefore.
(17:53):
Nobody's never talked to melike that before.
Nobody's ever kissed me ortested me like that before.
So if she's physically attractedto a guy's body his penis, his
hands, his teeth, his beard,whatever his body, his penis,
his hands, his teeth, his beard,whatever his looks She'll take
that over a guy that's not asgood looking but that won't
cheat on her.
She'll take me, my type, allday long.
And so what happens is I knowshe's going to be there.
I can leave in a month and comeback.
(18:14):
She ain't going anywhereBecause of that chemistry we
have.
That's what she chooses to like.
It makes her feel good, eventhough I'm dysfunctional, I'm
narcissistic as hell, I'mhateful before therapy.
I'm hateful and mean and grumpyand arrogant and I'm abusive.
She'll take that.
But this guy next door thatcuts her grass, cleans her
dumpsters, leaves her littlenotes on the front door, won't
(18:37):
cheat, sees she needs a ride towork.
She don't want him.
So the women that come back,they know what it is, they're
searching for that.
Oh no, leon, you're a buttholebut you know you're kind of
risky, you're kind ofadventurous.
But I like you Because I knewhow to get to something inside
of this soul or spirit whichwasn't right.
But they had addictions too andwe shared that.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Somebody's going to.
It's almost like that traumabonding thing.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Exactly, somebody's gonna, it's almost like that,
that trauma bonding, thenexactly exactly so.
If a woman can't trauma bondwith a man she really does,
she's not gonna like him.
And I'm not being disrespectful, but a lot of times we have
toxic, not tonic, inrelationships and we we like the
toxic because it gets you knowhow people like wake up, break
up to make up yeah, they breakup that makeup sex, yep.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
So let me ask you this so there's going to be some
women listening and they'relike, okay, I'm trying to get
out of this mindset, I'm tryingto heal, I don't want to make
the same mistakes, because theykeep going back to their ex.
The ex is doing them dirty,they're cheating, they're lying,
they're putting them down, butthey keep going back.
If you could give them probablylet's say three things they
(19:45):
should do, what would you saythose three things to be able to
work on themselves.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
First and foremost, don't do it for yourself,
because you can do it foryourself and you get your
feelings served.
You go in the corner, you cryin the bathroom, whatever, and
you get over it.
Tell your daughter, your son,your grandmother that's on a
dying bed, your uncle that youlove, your grandfather that's
close to you, that I'm not goingto be with Leon anymore.
If you could tell that personthat you truly love, that you're
(20:09):
not going to be with them.
But if you let them down, it'sgoing to hurt Because you let
somebody down that you love andthey say well, mom, you said you
weren't going to be with Leon,no more.
And I saw you calling him.
Then your daughter runs offcrying.
Now Leon calling them.
Then your daughter runs offcrying.
(20:30):
Now Leon is hurting not onlyyou but your daughter,
disrupting your household.
So I would say don't do it foryourself, do it for somebody
that you love.
First, number one is realizing.
I saw a quote that said peopledie at 25, but they're not
buried until 75.
Don't die early and then justlive your life until you get
buried.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Y'all gonna have to rewind on that because he
touched on it.
What's number three?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Number three is realizing that you are not
nowhere near tapping into yourpotential by being with this
person.
That's keeping you from yourpotential.
Same thing with dying and notbeing buried until 75.
Your life stops at that point.
You chose to bring somebodyinto your life.
That's very, very dysfunctional.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So, essentially, they could be more and do more if
they work on themselves.
And these are some reallytangible things to do.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
They can People go.
The problem is people say I'menrolled in therapy and it's
going, it's working pretty good.
They go to therapy for an hour,Then they go home to be with a
person for 19 hours.
That hasn't been therapy.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So it's kind of productive All right, you're to
be with a person for 19 hoursthat hasn't been therapy, so
it's kind of productive.
All right, man, you're killingme right now.
Where can people becausethey're going to need to know
where can they get your book,where can they follow you, and
all of that.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
All my books are on Amazon.
My first book is called Broken.
It's a memoir about mychildhood.
Second book was called LoveShip.
Third book is called SevenLoveless Traits and I did a bit
biography too.
But that's not on any Amazon orBarnes Noble.
But those books are on BarnesNoble.
I have a YouTube channel,instagram, facebook and TikTok
under Leon R Walker Jr.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Awesome.
I'm going to put all that inthe show notes too.
Thank you, man, this has beengreat.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, no problem.
Thanks for having me, mybrother.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yes, sir.
Thanks for tuning in to thepeace and prosperity podcast.
If today's episode brought youclarity, encouragement or even a
moment of calm, share it withsomeone who needs to hear it too
.
Your support helps us keepthese conversations going.
And remember you don't have todo it all alone.
If you're navigating stress,burnout or just need a space to
(22:28):
reset, I'm here to support you.
Connect with me atjasonlphillipscom or send me a
message on social media.
Until next time, protect yourpeace, pursue your purpose and
keep showing up for you.
Be blessed.
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