May 20, 2025 • 38 mins
The Peace & Prosperity Podcast is a bi-weekly conversation with Jason Phillips, LCSW, licensed therapist and confidence expert in Raleigh, NC, discussing all things related to self-love and self-confidence, and how we can improve ourselves personally and professionally.
What happens when a man’s passions don’t align with traditional masculinity? In this episode, we explore the isolation Black men often face when interests like art take priority over sports. Through personal stories, we highlight the struggle to form deep, meaningful friendships beyond surface-level hangouts.
From barbershops to fraternities, we unpack how societal norms shape male friendships and how embracing emotional vulnerability can lead to true connection. We also dive into high-functioning anxiety and the pressure to perform, offering real talk and practical tips for redefining masculinity and building community.
Plus, remember to join our podcast community—like, share, subscribe, and let us know what topics you want us to cover next. Engage with us, send a DM, or leave a review. Let's continue this journey towards peace and prosperity together.
To stay connected with Jason and learn about coaching, connect with Jason on social media:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jphillipsmsw/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jphillipsmsw
Visit Jason's website for a consultation:
Website -https://www.jasonlphillips.com
To book Jason to speak to your team or organization:
https://peaceprosperitycoaching.hbportal.co/public/660d8068c9d2d600253b215b/1-Inquiry
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
what's going on y'all ?
So we are talking aboutnavigating male friendships.
What's up instagram, man y'all?
It's been a minute since I'vebeen live.
What's up, man, bro?
What up, though?
How you feeling?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm good happy new year man man, happy new year,
right dang.
I know I haven't seen you allyear bro.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Cause it's been too long since we've been on live
together too.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's been a minute, since we've been on together.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I think I've been in New York more recent than since.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We've been on live, yeah it's been a minute since
we've done this.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Dang man well, we hear y'all what's up.
I see a lot of new faces.
Wait, we've been getting thetwins more and more.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So look, my friend was like Purvis, doing a live
with his chocolate twin.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I told you, man, remember my in-laws, thought you
were me that was crazy.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, because you're getting your great patch where
mine is.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's starting to come in.
Yeah, it's coming in.
What's up, ken?
What's up bro?
What's up y'all, how y'alldoing yeah, if y'all don't mind
too, just put in.
You know, put in your name.
And wherever you're watchingfrom, I know it's a lot of new
york people, probably a lot ofdetroit people.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Yeah, yeah man what up how you?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
been hey dad, what's up earl?
What up earl?
Oh, that's right, yeah, hey,that's a lot of bandmates on
here.
So earlier today we weretalking about resiliency and one
of the companies I have aprivilege to work with, ok.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, ok.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, what up Ken?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hey, Sandra DC All right DC in the house bro.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So whenever you're ready, we can kick it on off.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, brother.
So listen, you know, oddlyenough, I wasn't like I knew it
was a thing, but I didn't knowthat it's become national news
on male loneliness and theinability to have friendships,
particularly with black men.
Yeah, and so when you suggestedthis, I was like, oh yeah, it's
like it was.
It was synergy, because I justsaw a report on loneliness and
(02:06):
men and when you suggested thisI was like, ok, this is
synergistic, so we got to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yes, and somebody hit .
I know we talked about goinglive together, but then somebody
sent me an article aboutloneliness and friendship.
I said well, this is a perfecttime because somebody sent me an
article too.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It was a news report.
It was a.
It was actually a news segment,yeah on on black men fostering
friendships in in arizona.
I believe it was a whole newsreport wow, yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
So what's?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I guess we can start off just by sharing our own
experiences with, withfriendships yeah, you know it's
interesting and I really wantedto talk about this is, if you
know, when I was growing up, Ihad difficulty making friends
with guys, and here's whybecause I didn't play sports and
I was in the gifted andtalented program and it wasn't
(02:54):
too many guys in the gifted andtalented program, the honors
program.
So I was friends with girls.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Naturally right, and you know I like to dance.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You know I like to boogie.
I wasn't necessarily a sportsguy, so it was like that made it
very, very challenging for me,where I felt like I wasn't
accepted by a lot of people.
And it's crazy like sometimes,even to this day at 43, when I'm
making friends with guys, Ihave to like remind myself
purpose, you're not that infifth grade, you're not you're
(03:23):
not.
You know what I mean.
It's really a powerful thingand I didn't realize how
powerful it was until I reallysat and thought about my journey
with male friendship.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Because here's the thing, right.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know my brand of masculinity is not the norm of
masculinity, right.
And so I think for a lot ofbrothers it's like finding, you
know, that acceptance, that softplace to land in our
friendships.
And I think a lot offriendships are not that per se,
they're not soft landed, it'sjust y'all just have stuff in
common.
(03:56):
It's not even about a realfriendship, it's just that y'all
just have kind of likesimilarities, which is cool,
which is kind of likefoundationally to kind of build
a relationship.
But you know, as you get older,you just really want deep,
profound, meaningfulrelationships where you feel
seen, heard, accepted, and thatcan happen between brothers.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It takes work, though .
So, like you said, you know,experiences at school were
challenging.
What about outside of school?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
even with my cousins like I have.
I have a bunch of male cousinsright, and we're not that off in
age, right.
All, most of us are all born injuly.
All of us, the cancers likeit's a lot that we have in
common right.
We also have the same grandmagrandfather you know to be like
right same family, but I didn'tfeel accepted by them either
because I was different.
(04:47):
I was like more the moreartistic, I was the one who
preferred to go dancing, or youknow.
I mean, then I prefer to go tothe movies.
Then didn't play football, playfootball who?
Yeah, even though I can, okay,okay, I can't write, but twisted
I can't.
But that just wasn't who I was.
I would prefer to go to themovies.
(05:07):
I prefer to, you know, listento music or dance or something.
You know what I mean, which islike at that time there was not
accepted.
So you already know the names Igot called, even by my own
cousins.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I danced too and shout out
to Dave what up, dave?
I think that was thankfully.
When I went to high school itwas just way more girls than
guys.
So, it was easier.
I found my crew that I'm stillI mean, we text every day, all
day, and it's been 25 years, sothat happened.
(05:41):
But I think early on I had acouple of close friends in like
elementary, middle school, yeah,and growing up in my
neighborhood I had a couple ofguys.
That was different, because inmy neighborhood it was a lot of
gangs, oh.
So it was like if you notreally hanging with, they was
doing other stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So I didn't have the same issue or the same struggle,
but I had to pick and choosewho I did hang out with because
you know, peer pressure yeah, Ithink I think from an early age
I knew who was a safe space andwho wasn't, because I
experienced so much, so muchbetrayal from males growing up
like I thought somebody was myfriend.
(06:18):
Then they end up trying to playme or throw me on the bus and I
had to happen numerous timesand so like for me, it was more
about when I think aboutfriendships I'm like who is safe
?
Who do I feel safe?
Who?
Where does my spirit feel likeit's accepted?
You know what I mean.
As opposed to, it has to be aguy, it has to be this, it has
to look this way.
It was more so about safety forme yeah, no, that's true.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I do remember I had one of my home boys growing up.
He lived on the other side ofthe block but it was a lot of
people that we both weren't coolwith.
But we linked up because wewere cool with each other and
that was really like powerful,because he was a safe space, as
you could say.
But a lot of people were shady,you know.
(07:01):
They were probably trying tosteal from you, you know what
I'm saying Stuff like thathappening.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
But you know it's so wild because you think about
your childhood experiences,right, and you remember it one
way and you see people today onFacebook and you're like perfect
.
You're that guy, you're thatdude.
I was like, really, I don'tremember that Growing up, I
remember you shading the hellout of me.
Yeah, like always, you know.
So, yeah, I think even more sonow that I'm older, right, I'm
(07:32):
more intentional aboutcultivating relationships with
men, because it's important.
As men, we need to have thosedeep, profound, real, true,
authentic relationships.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And for those of y'all who listening in too, if
y'all have, you know me andPurvis are going to talk about
some things, but if y'all havequestions or comments, make sure
y'all put them in the chat orquestion box.
So what do you think is youknow?
Because now we're adults, right, most of us who listen in are
you know.
We're in our 30s or 40s.
What do you think is going onnow, where men in particular are
(08:04):
experiencing so much loneliness?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, I think you know we think about
vulnerability, right?
You know I always say this.
You know we think about beingvulnerable.
We always think about the riskfactor and not reward.
And I think we think about therisk factors because we've been
violated, we've been betrayed,you know what I mean.
Like we've shared our heartswith people and they may not
have handled it right, or theymay have gossiped about it, or
they use it as tea, or they mayhave dismissed it.
(08:31):
I think for us as men I admitand I'll speak for me because I
can speak for other people I'mvery fragile and I'm very
sensitive.
If I feel like, if I sharesomething with you and you
dismiss it or you betray me,it's a wrap.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Are you giving people a second chance?
Nah, yeah, you said that quick.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Nah, betrayal and being violated is so deep, hence
why it's a traumatic thing,hence why people are free, men
are free to engage inrelationships.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, I'll say I didn't have that same experience
, but I had so in my core groupof friends.
It's like five of us.
It's five of us.
What up, though?
And sometimes people may say,hey, man, I know dog Ro is cool,
let's let him start hanging.
And I'm like, who is this guy?
(09:22):
And there were a couple oftimes where things went left and
I'm like, see, that's why Itold y'all like I think you know
, you can only trust certainpeople.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
You see what people are saying.
Yes, we feel betrayal verydeeply, even though we don't
always show it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That's a real thing.
You know it's guys.
We don't really talk about it,we just try to keep it moving.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, instead of like moving forward, right, we keep
it moving, which is moremaladaptive than moving forward,
which is actually dealing withthe betrayal, the emotions and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
He said don't try man .
So how many male friends?
Because I've seen some studies.
How many friends do y'all thinkmost guys have?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I saw a report today.
I saw a report on it todayactually.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So y'all who listening in, how many guys, how
many friends do y'all thinkguys have?
And I'll say this because Iknow I work with mostly men.
Now, do you work with mostlymen?
Yeah, sandra said two to three.
What up Aaron?
Two, what up A?
What's the number?
What did you see on average?
I saw two In the research.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, what does your research say?
One to two yeah, yeah, yeah.
He said 12 max on a close level.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I think that's one to two.
Oh, one to two max.
Okay, okay, okay, I was like 12.
No, nobody got 12.
Nobody got the disciples.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And even one betrayed right.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Man, because I think a lot of times jealousy does
happen.
People start hating on you.
Ken, I think four that's awishful.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
That's a wishful thinking, bro, yeah, yeah, all
right, that's what's thinking,bro, yeah, yeah, I think I think
it's.
I think for us as men, we don'trealize that we have to be
intentional about cultivatingrelationships and like, when you
are intentional aboutcultivating, it's more than just
surface.
So then accountability comesinto play, transparency come to,
comes into play, vulnerabilitycomes into play.
You know what I mean, like I, Ithink.
(11:23):
I think for a lot of us, wedon't even know how to even
engage in that discourse and Ithink that's a couple things too
.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I think it is, you know, we have to be intentional
about it, we, and then at anearly age, like if you're in
your 20s and early 30s, youmight be so focused on getting
to the bag.
Yes, sand said, does being inchurch or in sports or
fraternity make a difference?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
You know what's interesting, right?
I've had several clients maleclients come to me about how
they felt lonely even withintheir fraternity, how they felt
like they weren't genuinefriends with their brothers in
the fraternity.
I've heard that story at leastthree or four times, so I don't
know if that necessarily youknow what I mean.
(12:09):
I don't think I think we thinkabout.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I wasjust about to say something.
Go ahead when I think we thinkabout surface absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
When you talk about deep and meaningful.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I don't know.
Yeah, you know.
You don't say that's not right,that's not really real.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, so, uh, urban haberdashery.
That's my boy, he said.
I definitely see it in my frat.
We're in small groups, right.
So I think you have to be you.
You still have to be reallyintentional, even in a, in a
church.
You know, even in the church,even in a fraternity, I've seen
firsthand where you knowsomebody in a fraternity is like
, hey, I need something.
(12:49):
And they're like you're likewait, wait, wait.
I thought this was deeper thanthat.
So, as you say, people willstill be people.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, it's, you know.
I just think for a lot ofbrothers, I think too, like also
being clear about what yourneeds are, because, you know,
even in friendships, like youknow, we have love languages
within our romanticrelationships, but we also those
love languages are the same infriendship more than not right,
and so I think like we have tobe very clear about what it is
that we're looking for in infriendships, and I think a lot
(13:20):
of times people in general, notjust men.
I don't think we actuallycommunicate that.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, I saw, I forget if it was Sandra, or somebody
said it's hard for females too.
Yeah, I speak life coaching.
That's a good question.
What's a good definition offriendship?
What are the values?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, they coming in.
The comments are here tonightbro.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, that's a good one.
You want to start first?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I don't know if I can construct complete definition
of friendship, but I definitelywould say it's a person that you
intentionally choose to have abond with and share experiences,
share intimacy with.
That is platonic.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, I agree.
I think I would add thedefinition of friendship.
It has to be defined betweenthose two people who are friends
.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right, but I think that's the framework.
That's the framework, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, and they have to be able to talk about
expectations.
And you know how often can wecommunicate?
Because I talk to men all thetime and they're like, yeah, I
got people I'm cool with.
I ain't talked to them in acouple months, but every time we
pick up it's good, it's good.
I hear that a lot, lot,especially with me.
I think sometimes we just don'tknow.
We don't know what we don'tknow, and then we end up
(14:29):
addressing the feelings like youknow, we feel lonely, we like
dang what's up with my dog wheremy bro at, but you know what?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
though a lot of relationships, bro, are really
surface, say, say more like alot of people.
For instance, my friend steve,one of my good friends, I
remember he told me early on inour friendship he was like P.
He said you're going to haveproblems having friends, he said
because you're deep.
He said you like to go deep.
He said most people don't liketo go deep.
And I was like you're right.
(14:58):
Most people that I'veencountered in life are really
surfaced because we're not intune.
We don't even know what to dowith the deep.
We don't know what to do withthe, that space within us.
Right, and I've always justbeen a person because the way my
life narrative has been, I haveno choice but to go deep.
I can't be surfing, and so,like for me.
I read, I realized like whenI'm interacting with people, I
(15:18):
can tell me that I'm like, oh,they don't want, they don't
really want to be friends withme.
They want to be, hey, what up,bro, and that's it right, right,
right it's the difference tothe second part of the question
what are the values?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I think that's going to dictate the friendship too,
because if I value something andwe like best boys, you know
best friends, whatever but youdon't value it and it's a stark
difference.
It may be hard to continue therelationship or friendship
because, like, let's say, yousmoking, drinking every day,
that's your, you know, you enjoythat every day.
(15:52):
We trying to hook up and I'mtrying, I'm trying to play
madden, but you so out of it.
The values may be different.
Or if I'm, I'm married, but youjust coming through with just a
plethora of women every day,all day, I'm like bro yeah, Nah
bro.
So yeah, that can interfere too,yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I also think about, like your unprocessed and your
unmet needs and your unprocessedstuff, right.
That can tend to show up inrelationships as well, right?
And I think a lot of times,which is why I think it's
important for men to be on theirhealing journey so that they
can have deeper, meaningfulrelationships, because if not,
it's going to be just what up,bro, let's play Madden and
that's it, and then you're goinghome still depressed, still
(16:40):
thinking about that thing thatyou ain't told nobody about.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, nobody about you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, you know.
One thing interesting too aboutthat kind of a sidebar is that
men connect more by but byactivity too, yeah, but also by
not looking, like we looking ateach other because we don't live
.
But you know a lot of men wechop it up in the barbershop or
playing sports because we don'thave to look directly at each
other and for some men thatcould be really intimidating.
(17:07):
So when we chopping it upplaying the video game, we can
express our feelings.
But I don't have to worry abouthow you're perceiving me.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Let me ask you a question Do you think brothers
are really honest?
In the barbershop.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
If it's a barbershop, if everybody's not, if it's not
a platform like a groupdiscussion, I think they are
Like, if it's you talking toyour barber, I'll say, if I'm
talking to my barber, especiallymy barber I had in Michigan,
not my barber here we still Getto know each other.
Yeah, I mean, I've been going tohim for about two years, but
Aaron said nah, I think itdepends.
(17:43):
Hey, Peace and Prosperityfamily.
I think it depends, hey, Peaceand Prosperity family.
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(18:06):
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Speaker 3 (18:14):
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Speaker 4 (18:21):
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There were a lot of keytakeaways from his presentation.
I mean he discussed just howleadership impacts team health
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I was in Jason's session today and I just took
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You're interested in investingin your team's mental health?
Visit jasonlphillipscom orvisit the link below and let's
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(18:59):
Now back to the episode.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
So so here's the thing.
Remember I said this right,every man has his own brand of
masculinity, right?
I think certain brands ofmasculinity are accepted in
barbershop settings, thepresentation of it, I think.
Sometimes people conform.
I think some men conform to fitin, even though they're not
being authentic in that moment.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Do you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I think it depends on the barber too, though yeah,
you know, because it depends onthe environment that's created.
I remember before I went to Tim, I used to go to a barber shop
in Harlem Bruh.
I would just be quiet, Iwouldn't say nothing.
I would talk to my barber everynow and then, but other than
that I was like Because you knowhow it is.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's like I have one barber he's going to chop it up
and get deep, and the otherbarber, he's just silly.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I mean not a bad thing.
My client is seven barbers.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That's my client.
Oh yeah, different.
What's up, dr Earl?
What?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
up Dr Earl.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Happy New Year, brother.
I saw another comment too Iwanted to highlight.
Dave said I haven't felt lonelysince taking on the
responsibility of marriage andraising kids.
Less men are getting married intheir 20s.
I believe this is alsocontributing to the loneliness
epidemic.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know, something I always say is that men scream
at a frequency that only theycan hear, like we only know our
screams, right.
And I think part of the problemwith loneliness is that, right,
our scream is internal, it'snot external.
So we can't get the help thatwe need and we can't find
community, those things likethat.
So I think to that point I'veencountered so many married men
(20:41):
who are coming to me who aresaying like yo, I'm lonely even
within my marriage.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I think it's not been okay to really talk about it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, you know what I told my homegirl today.
You know what I said to hertoday.
What's that.
I said, you know, she's marriedto one of my good friends and I
said to her I said you know, ifhe shares his fragility with
you, you still have to see himas a man.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And that a man and that's part of, but that's
that's why they, that's whybrothers, not about to do yeah.
So you, I'm gonna repeat, yousaid if he shares his fragility
with you, you still have to seehim as a man, absolutely,
absolutely.
But how many are really able todo that?
Not even willing, but able, butyeah yeah, I mean, here's the
thing right.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
As men, we're actualized as protectors and
providers.
That's it, right, nothing else.
And so now we're in a spacewhere 80 percent of suicides are
contributed by men.
So that means that we have tobe actualized differently now,
and so we need so.
The need for friendship is anecessity, it's not a luxury,
it's a need we need.
(21:44):
You grow in the context ofcommunity, you don't grow in
isolation.
I'm sorry.
No, I'm listening to.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'm looking at comments.
They they are coming in.
Oh, it's a question, but Aaronsaid this, which I think is
really true Marriage andchildren decrease opportunities
to fellowship due to schedulingand responsibilities, right.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Right, which is which is why I said provider and
protector.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
The question we didn't get to yet how do we move
from doing activities with ourbuddies to becoming friends?
I think that first the activityis necessary because now
there's a common interest.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, and your guard is down a lot when you're doing
activities and you keep showingup, you keep showing up.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And if you want that friendship when you're doing
activities and you keep showingup, you keep showing up, and if
you want that friendship, thenyou're going to have to take
that step and actually bevulnerable.
Ask somebody how they're doingoutside of the game y'all
playing Like.
Ask a simple question thatcould go deep and lead to a
deeper conversation, right.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But I also think, adding on to what you're saying,
I think it's important to knowyour own personal bandwidth and
threshold.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Which as far as like how many friends you can have or
how deep you can go, how deepyou can go or how deep you're
willing to go with somebody.
Yeah, you got to know thatbeforehand, but I think that's
where you know.
I guess that's where we come in, because sometimes people don't
even know how deep they can go.
Right, and their threshold islimited because they've never
(23:08):
really engaged in that waybefore you know what I mean you
know, a lot of times when peoplewe talk to, people that might
be their first time reallyopening up about bro 90 percent
of the time 90 percent of thetime, that is yeah, I because I
I had a brother.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
One time I don't know why, jason I, he was like
coming to me relational issueswith his wife and friendships,
things like that.
I just asked him.
I said I said yo, did anythinghappen to you in childhood?
I don't know why.
He was like, yeah, you know,one time my uncle did this to me
.
I was like wait, wait, wait.
I was like what he's like?
Oh, my uncle did this to mewhen I was seven years old.
(23:43):
I said okay, all right, timeout.
Do you realize how?
This moment that you buried andyou covered over, you skipped
over how now this is impactingyour life and he was like it was
his first time ever admittingit in 40 years.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Really, it was his first admitting and not being
aware of it In that moment.
In 40 years absolutely.
Yeah, I like so.
Dave said men don't take onenough responsibility.
He had another comment tooWithout responsibility, you'll
feel useless.
I think that I'll say that isso tongue-tied.
(24:18):
I think this is what I think.
I think men need mentors andmen need more mentors to stay on
them in a way that's differentfrom what you and I do.
I mean it's similar but it'sstill different.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
To let them know how to take on a responsibility and
how to stay accountable, becauseif not, then they're just
floundering and they may bejumping from issue to issue or
girl to girl or job to job yeahWithout any true guidance.
So we do got to get back to thebasics.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
On being more mentors to younger brothers, and to
kind of add to that, to Jay'spoint, responsibility is
necessary and needed, right,because it does give you a bit
of a framework.
But even within that, you stillneed to know how to deal and
regulate your emotions, dealwith your traumas.
You know what I mean, like havespaces where you can process,
(25:12):
have spaces where you can shareright, because you know, in
therapy is really sharing anexchange of words, right, and so
the more you're able to processand talk about a thing, the
less power it has over you.
You know what I mean.
So it's like responsibility isnecessary, but it's also coupled
with these other things.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Now you all said what are those two things that men
do?
I believe that was when yousaid providers and protectors
yes, yeah, and that's.
I mean, we were taught that.
I know I was personally taughtthat at a young age.
Like, this is your job Provide,protect and teach, that's what
my daddy told me.
Yeah, and don't mess it upeither.
Don't mess it up Therapy withMo.
(25:53):
She said do men trust other menin friendships like they do
women?
I think some men find safespaces with female friends, but
it's different.
That is true, I can attest tothat A lot of times.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I found more safety in my female friendships than I
have in my male friendships.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I think.
For me personally, yeah, if wekicking it, yeah, it feels like
a romantic relationship, but Idon't think all men would just
talk to anyone.
I think, I think, I think it'sright.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I don't think that men in general trust anybody
Right Fundament, anybody Right,Fundamentally right.
But I was saying, like you gotto think about the way I was,
like I was reared, you know whatI mean.
Like I said, I was the only guyin the honors classes, so those
were my friends, right?
You know what I mean.
I didn't necessarily playsports so, like my world was
(26:43):
girls because I was the only boyin the Gifted and Talented
program.
So I just think it depends onthe person.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, thomas, what's your input on men?
Sharing emotions with men?
I think it needs to happen.
I think when we don't, when wedon't, it makes it seem like
something is wrong by beingemotional, like being human.
So sometimes I've been insession and the guy's like man.
I don't know if I should sharethis with you, but I guess I
should share with you becausethis is what I'm paying you for.
(27:12):
You know, even in a session,therapy session, a coaching
session men still second guess.
Should they go there?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But you know what's crazy.
So you and I kind of havemirrored experiences, like in
terms of like losing our parentsand, like you know, losing both
our parents, and like havingyou know, sibling issues and
things like that, and I wouldn'thave known that if I wasn't
vulnerable enough to share mystuff with you.
And then you were like yo, Ifelt seen, because you had a
(27:42):
similar experience.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, and so again, that goes back to the risk and
reward factor.
I took a risk Right, then Ifound a reward.
I was seen, I was heard and youunderstood everything I felt.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
And that's a lot of times what people are looking
for.
What people are looking forbecause a lot of people can't
relate to, you know, losing bothparents, like.
So now you might already feellike, damn, I'm an eyeball, yeah
, I can tell you, but you reallydon't get it right.
It's like if we used to work asdid you work at uh no, you
didn't work at target, did youno?
But if we worked at a similarspace or place, we'll both be
(28:15):
like, oh man, I worked there too.
I know exactly what you'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yes, they sure do do that, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And that commonality, just knowing like, oh okay, you
get it, Absolutely Men do.
I think more men should shareemotions and not just
frustrations.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yes, but then I think you learn to share your
emotions by learning to beintrospective, to identify what
the emotion is.
Yeah, and I think before thatwe need to be introspective.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Being a protector and provider is first.
For me, having good friends isimportant too.
Good friends can help guide youin the direction I got to wait
for the rest, but we can'texpect them to solve our
problems.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
No, for sure, we can't expect them to solve our
problems?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
no, for sure they can't solve it, but I think a
lot of times knowing thatsomebody you process through you
don't maybe yeah.
I'm so like you sorry, bro,maybe they already been there,
so I'm talking to you about itand you like hey, I had the same
thing you like're like.
Oh, okay, okay, bet.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, frustration seems more masculine than
sharing your emotions.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
You know, what I mean and I think frustration is just
common man and it's pissed meoff, I can't believe this
happened, but that's moreempowering than saying, like yo,
I'm hurting Right.
Do y'all have any otherquestions this?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
was good man.
It was good.
We're going in.
I like this.
This is a great subject brother, you picked it well.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
There is a fine line between empowering and enabling.
I think that's why I likecoaching, because it's a little
bit more direct on some things.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Sometimes you just want to know.
Go ahead, go ahead you can readthe comments that sometimes we
just want to know that someonecares and understands like
everybody wants to be seen.
Everybody wants to be seen, andheard.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
It's like this too.
I'll give another example.
Let's say we in a bed, we in aweight room and I'm lifting 205.
I'm trying to get 225 or 250and I can get 225.
But every time I go for 250,you know I can't get more than
two reps.
But then, dave, you like, yeah,hey, the same thing happened to
me.
So then I started doing fliesand then tricep presses, and
(30:32):
that helped get my bench.
I'm like, oh, ok, bet, so I'mnot the only one who had trouble
getting a 250.
I don't feel like something'swrong with me.
I just needed to get adifferent direction or take it a
different angle.
And that's the power of havinga friendship to be able to be
vulnerable and say, hey, I canhit 225, but I cannot hit 250.
You like, hey, I got a cheatcode for you.
(30:54):
Now I'm feeling better about it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, you know.
One thing I want to say to Daveis like nobody solves your
problems.
You process through your issuesand you arrive at a resolve
that you continuously workthrough.
You understand what I'm saying,so you continuously learn how
to process.
You know nobody ever solvesyour problems.
I just want to be very, veryclear about that this is a good
(31:17):
question.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
How do you work with younger men and teens so the
issues can be addressed sooner?
You want to go first yeah, I'llsay this because I've had a
mentor and program with youngboys they were like 8 to 12 and
been a mentor to younger kidsand it's challenging.
We need interventions muchearlier.
And it's challenging, we needinterventions much earlier.
(31:39):
I will say the kids need thesupport, but the parents need
the.
They have to buy in too.
That's one way you have toaddress not just the kid or the
child, but the parents may needsome coaching or some type of
support as well.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Right, because they learn how to process from their
parents.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And their parents have access to, whether or not
they get access to you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Right, and you know one of the things.
I think I told you this right.
I have a program, an emotionalintelligence program, at a
couple of universities here inthe city and one of the biggest
deterrent for young men to getthe help they need is the
perception of being perceived assassy by their female peers.
Right and so like.
(32:23):
It's a thing that we all haveto agree that being healthy is
the right thing, so it's acultural thing.
So we have to kind of breakthat culture.
That's in the minds that thestrong and silent type is where
it's at.
Meanwhile, the strong andsilent type is killing
themselves.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And I think now we need more interventions with the
young men, the teenagers morethan ever, because so much is
happening in the world.
They probably have so manyquestions about you know how do
I handle this?
How do I address this?
Anxiety, yeah, anxiety,Depression.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Like I had a conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Somebody told me now, because of anxiety, kids are
waiting longer to do a lot ofthings, because they're so
anxious about what their peersmay think or what's going to be
on social media.
Absolutely, if you're cool, bro, this would be the last one
from I speak.
Life coaching this is a goodone.
What's the point of entry ofbecoming a man?
When do we know, and what arethose expectations?
(33:17):
I was gonna let you go.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
No, no, no, I'm waiting on you to go, Because I
think I have in my mind, I havesomething.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I think when do we know?
As far as being a man, I neverthought about it like that, me
either.
Now, I guess, if I were toanswer it directly, I want you
to be comfortable with who youare Right Like.
Don't think about, I guess,when.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think about my manhood.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
You determine that and you define that, like in
high school or it just kind ofyou evolve, but you want to make
sure that you're comfortablewith who you are and not look to
somebody else to determine whatthe definition of a man is.
Because when that happens youcan have a skewed vision or
skewed perception, like, oh, Ineed to make X amount to be a
(34:00):
man, I need to make six figures,or I need to be able to lift
this.
But then you do it and you'restill not happy with who you are
.
Are you a man?
Yes and no, by that definitionyou are.
But is that your definition?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Right, you define it, and also, too, if other people
define it for you, then youdon't have any agency.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, so I would want you, or everybody you know,
that's a great question.
You define it and then you meetyour own definition.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, you have the agency to do that.
You're empowered to do that.
Don't measure your manhood bysomeone else's yardstick
Absolutely, dre.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah and Dave, yeah people, you will have some
friends looking at you becauseif you, you know, I know Dave
personally so like if you, ifyou have things together, you
marry, you got a job, you got acareer, you're doing a great job
, people will look at you like,hey, I need some of that, help
me.
And they may look at you toenable them.
(34:54):
So that's when you have toreally put a boundary up so that
you don't enable them them.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So that's when you have to really put a boundary up
so that you don't enable them,I agree Before we wrap.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
What lasting thoughts on anybody listening or if
they're sharing this with ayoung man who may need support.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
What would you say to them?
Oh, wow, I have many thoughtsswirling through my head that
you grow.
You don't grow in isolation,you grow in the context of
community and it's important tofind your tribe right Because
you get expanded.
I've been expanded because ofyou.
You know what I mean.
I've grown because of being infellowship with you and I guess
also you get to define what yourbrand of masculinity is, and
(35:34):
your brand of masculinitydoesn't have to look like
somebody else's.
You get to determine that.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I like what you say as far as community.
Community is so important.
I think we're doing things inisolation, which is cool, but
again I think, man, dave, I'mtrying to I was going to say,
man, the community is important,right?
So I've had, you know, a lot ofdifferent opportunities from
(36:00):
you know, connecting with Aaron,connecting with you, connecting
with Boshay, connecting withMonroe, like, and we've had, you
know, being able to grow ourbrotherhood and friendship, mac
included, trey, dr, earl.
So I think that sometimes wegoing back to friendships, none
of that happens if we don't openup and say, hey, man, what's up
?
You free Thursday night?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Let's do it.
Or when you come to New York,you're like P, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, let's look up.
That's important.
We have to start being moreintentional about friendships
and that'll help solve a lot ofthese issues a lot sooner,
because when we're trying tocome up with answers to big
problems by ourself, we'retaking longer to get to the
answer because we don't haveenough people, great minds,
thinking on a bigger issue, howto solve it.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, and if your voice is the only voice you're
listening to, then you you'reheaded for danger.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and the side that's thedanger of being in the silo.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, bro, All right y'all, we probably going to do a
part two.
This is dope, Yo Jay.
This was great.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
They was good today.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
It was good.
It was good man.
It's real good to be back onhere.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, brother, anytime.
Man, jason, you are amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
You're dope and I'm proud of you, brother, all the
things that are happening foryou.
Yeah, likewise, man Likewise,and I appreciate y'all too.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
We appreciate all of you.
Thank you so much for joiningin.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, peace.
Thank you all for listening toanother episode of the Peace and
Prosperity Podcast.
Again, if you are feeling like,hey, I'm experiencing high
functioning anxiety, don't beatyourself up about it.
It is OK.
We all experience anxiety fromtime to time and I gave you a
couple of things that you can doon your own, but don't hesitate
(37:50):
to reach out to a professionalto better manage what you're
going through.
Ok, and lastly, make sure, ifyou have not like share,
subscribe to the podcast andsend this out to a friend.
And if you want to hear certainepisodes or have certain
conversations, let me know.
(38:10):
You can shoot me a DM or justleave a review and I will
definitely follow up.
All right, y'all Be blessed,peace.
what's going on y'all ?
So we are talking aboutnavigating male friendships.
What's up instagram, man y'all?
It's been a minute since I'vebeen live.
What's up, man, bro?
What up, though?
How you feeling?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm good happy new year man man, happy new year,
right dang.
I know I haven't seen you allyear bro.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Cause it's been too long since we've been on live
together too.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's been a minute, since we've been on together.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I think I've been in New York more recent than since.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We've been on live, yeah it's been a minute since
we've done this.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Dang man well, we hear y'all what's up.
I see a lot of new faces.
Wait, we've been getting thetwins more and more.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So look, my friend was like Purvis, doing a live
with his chocolate twin.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I told you, man, remember my in-laws, thought you
were me that was crazy.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, because you're getting your great patch where
mine is.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's starting to come in.
Yeah, it's coming in.
What's up, ken?
What's up bro?
What's up y'all, how y'alldoing yeah, if y'all don't mind
too, just put in.
You know, put in your name.
And wherever you're watchingfrom, I know it's a lot of new
york people, probably a lot ofdetroit people.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Yeah, yeah man what up how you?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
been hey dad, what's up earl?
What up earl?
Oh, that's right, yeah, hey,that's a lot of bandmates on
here.
So earlier today we weretalking about resiliency and one
of the companies I have aprivilege to work with, ok.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, ok.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, what up Ken?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hey, Sandra DC All right DC in the house bro.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So whenever you're ready, we can kick it on off.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, brother.
So listen, you know, oddlyenough, I wasn't like I knew it
was a thing, but I didn't knowthat it's become national news
on male loneliness and theinability to have friendships,
particularly with black men.
Yeah, and so when you suggestedthis, I was like, oh yeah, it's
like it was.
It was synergy, because I justsaw a report on loneliness and
(02:06):
men and when you suggested thisI was like, ok, this is
synergistic, so we got to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yes, and somebody hit .
I know we talked about goinglive together, but then somebody
sent me an article aboutloneliness and friendship.
I said well, this is a perfecttime because somebody sent me an
article too.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It was a news report.
It was a.
It was actually a news segment,yeah on on black men fostering
friendships in in arizona.
I believe it was a whole newsreport wow, yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
So what's?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I guess we can start off just by sharing our own
experiences with, withfriendships yeah, you know it's
interesting and I really wantedto talk about this is, if you
know, when I was growing up, Ihad difficulty making friends
with guys, and here's whybecause I didn't play sports and
I was in the gifted andtalented program and it wasn't
(02:54):
too many guys in the gifted andtalented program, the honors
program.
So I was friends with girls.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Naturally right, and you know I like to dance.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You know I like to boogie.
I wasn't necessarily a sportsguy, so it was like that made it
very, very challenging for me,where I felt like I wasn't
accepted by a lot of people.
And it's crazy like sometimes,even to this day at 43, when I'm
making friends with guys, Ihave to like remind myself
purpose, you're not that infifth grade, you're not you're
(03:23):
not.
You know what I mean.
It's really a powerful thingand I didn't realize how
powerful it was until I reallysat and thought about my journey
with male friendship.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Because here's the thing, right.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know my brand of masculinity is not the norm of
masculinity, right.
And so I think for a lot ofbrothers it's like finding, you
know, that acceptance, that softplace to land in our
friendships.
And I think a lot offriendships are not that per se,
they're not soft landed, it'sjust y'all just have stuff in
common.
(03:56):
It's not even about a realfriendship, it's just that y'all
just have kind of likesimilarities, which is cool,
which is kind of likefoundationally to kind of build
a relationship.
But you know, as you get older,you just really want deep,
profound, meaningfulrelationships where you feel
seen, heard, accepted, and thatcan happen between brothers.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It takes work, though .
So, like you said, you know,experiences at school were
challenging.
What about outside of school?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
even with my cousins like I have.
I have a bunch of male cousinsright, and we're not that off in
age, right.
All, most of us are all born injuly.
All of us, the cancers likeit's a lot that we have in
common right.
We also have the same grandmagrandfather you know to be like
right same family, but I didn'tfeel accepted by them either
because I was different.
(04:47):
I was like more the moreartistic, I was the one who
preferred to go dancing, or youknow.
I mean, then I prefer to go tothe movies.
Then didn't play football, playfootball who?
Yeah, even though I can, okay,okay, I can't write, but twisted
I can't.
But that just wasn't who I was.
I would prefer to go to themovies.
(05:07):
I prefer to, you know, listento music or dance or something.
You know what I mean, which islike at that time there was not
accepted.
So you already know the names Igot called, even by my own
cousins.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I danced too and shout out
to Dave what up, dave?
I think that was thankfully.
When I went to high school itwas just way more girls than
guys.
So, it was easier.
I found my crew that I'm stillI mean, we text every day, all
day, and it's been 25 years, sothat happened.
(05:41):
But I think early on I had acouple of close friends in like
elementary, middle school, yeah,and growing up in my
neighborhood I had a couple ofguys.
That was different, because inmy neighborhood it was a lot of
gangs, oh.
So it was like if you notreally hanging with, they was
doing other stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So I didn't have the same issue or the same struggle,
but I had to pick and choosewho I did hang out with because
you know, peer pressure yeah, Ithink I think from an early age
I knew who was a safe space andwho wasn't, because I
experienced so much, so muchbetrayal from males growing up
like I thought somebody was myfriend.
(06:18):
Then they end up trying to playme or throw me on the bus and I
had to happen numerous timesand so like for me, it was more
about when I think aboutfriendships I'm like who is safe
?
Who do I feel safe?
Who?
Where does my spirit feel likeit's accepted?
You know what I mean.
As opposed to, it has to be aguy, it has to be this, it has
to look this way.
It was more so about safety forme yeah, no, that's true.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I do remember I had one of my home boys growing up.
He lived on the other side ofthe block but it was a lot of
people that we both weren't coolwith.
But we linked up because wewere cool with each other and
that was really like powerful,because he was a safe space, as
you could say.
But a lot of people were shady,you know.
(07:01):
They were probably trying tosteal from you, you know what
I'm saying Stuff like thathappening.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
But you know it's so wild because you think about
your childhood experiences,right, and you remember it one
way and you see people today onFacebook and you're like perfect
.
You're that guy, you're thatdude.
I was like, really, I don'tremember that Growing up, I
remember you shading the hellout of me.
Yeah, like always, you know.
So, yeah, I think even more sonow that I'm older, right, I'm
(07:32):
more intentional aboutcultivating relationships with
men, because it's important.
As men, we need to have thosedeep, profound, real, true,
authentic relationships.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
And for those of y'all who listening in too, if
y'all have, you know me andPurvis are going to talk about
some things, but if y'all havequestions or comments, make sure
y'all put them in the chat orquestion box.
So what do you think is youknow?
Because now we're adults, right, most of us who listen in are
you know.
We're in our 30s or 40s.
What do you think is going onnow, where men in particular are
(08:04):
experiencing so much loneliness?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, I think you know we think about
vulnerability, right?
You know I always say this.
You know we think about beingvulnerable.
We always think about the riskfactor and not reward.
And I think we think about therisk factors because we've been
violated, we've been betrayed,you know what I mean.
Like we've shared our heartswith people and they may not
have handled it right, or theymay have gossiped about it, or
they use it as tea, or they mayhave dismissed it.
(08:31):
I think for us as men I admitand I'll speak for me because I
can speak for other people I'mvery fragile and I'm very
sensitive.
If I feel like, if I sharesomething with you and you
dismiss it or you betray me,it's a wrap.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Are you giving people a second chance?
Nah, yeah, you said that quick.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Nah, betrayal and being violated is so deep, hence
why it's a traumatic thing,hence why people are free, men
are free to engage inrelationships.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, I'll say I didn't have that same experience
, but I had so in my core groupof friends.
It's like five of us.
It's five of us.
What up, though?
And sometimes people may say,hey, man, I know dog Ro is cool,
let's let him start hanging.
And I'm like, who is this guy?
(09:22):
And there were a couple oftimes where things went left and
I'm like, see, that's why Itold y'all like I think you know
, you can only trust certainpeople.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
You see what people are saying.
Yes, we feel betrayal verydeeply, even though we don't
always show it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That's a real thing.
You know it's guys.
We don't really talk about it,we just try to keep it moving.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, instead of like moving forward, right, we keep
it moving, which is moremaladaptive than moving forward,
which is actually dealing withthe betrayal, the emotions and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
He said don't try man .
So how many male friends?
Because I've seen some studies.
How many friends do y'all thinkmost guys have?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I saw a report today.
I saw a report on it todayactually.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So y'all who listening in, how many guys, how
many friends do y'all thinkguys have?
And I'll say this because Iknow I work with mostly men.
Now, do you work with mostlymen?
Yeah, sandra said two to three.
What up Aaron?
Two, what up A?
What's the number?
What did you see on average?
I saw two In the research.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, what does your research say?
One to two yeah, yeah, yeah.
He said 12 max on a close level.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I think that's one to two.
Oh, one to two max.
Okay, okay, okay, I was like 12.
No, nobody got 12.
Nobody got the disciples.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And even one betrayed right.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Man, because I think a lot of times jealousy does
happen.
People start hating on you.
Ken, I think four that's awishful.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
That's a wishful thinking, bro, yeah, yeah, all
right, that's what's thinking,bro, yeah, yeah, I think I think
it's.
I think for us as men, we don'trealize that we have to be
intentional about cultivatingrelationships and like, when you
are intentional aboutcultivating, it's more than just
surface.
So then accountability comesinto play, transparency come to,
comes into play, vulnerabilitycomes into play.
You know what I mean, like I, Ithink.
(11:23):
I think for a lot of us, wedon't even know how to even
engage in that discourse and Ithink that's a couple things too
.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I think it is, you know, we have to be intentional
about it, we, and then at anearly age, like if you're in
your 20s and early 30s, youmight be so focused on getting
to the bag.
Yes, sand said, does being inchurch or in sports or
fraternity make a difference?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
You know what's interesting, right?
I've had several clients maleclients come to me about how
they felt lonely even withintheir fraternity, how they felt
like they weren't genuinefriends with their brothers in
the fraternity.
I've heard that story at leastthree or four times, so I don't
know if that necessarily youknow what I mean.
(12:09):
I don't think I think we thinkabout.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I wasjust about to say something.
Go ahead when I think we thinkabout surface absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
When you talk about deep and meaningful.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I don't know.
Yeah, you know.
You don't say that's not right,that's not really real.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, so, uh, urban haberdashery.
That's my boy, he said.
I definitely see it in my frat.
We're in small groups, right.
So I think you have to be you.
You still have to be reallyintentional, even in a, in a
church.
You know, even in the church,even in a fraternity, I've seen
firsthand where you knowsomebody in a fraternity is like
, hey, I need something.
(12:49):
And they're like you're likewait, wait, wait.
I thought this was deeper thanthat.
So, as you say, people willstill be people.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, it's, you know.
I just think for a lot ofbrothers, I think too, like also
being clear about what yourneeds are, because, you know,
even in friendships, like youknow, we have love languages
within our romanticrelationships, but we also those
love languages are the same infriendship more than not right,
and so I think like we have tobe very clear about what it is
that we're looking for in infriendships, and I think a lot
(13:20):
of times people in general, notjust men.
I don't think we actuallycommunicate that.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, I saw, I forget if it was Sandra, or somebody
said it's hard for females too.
Yeah, I speak life coaching.
That's a good question.
What's a good definition offriendship?
What are the values?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, they coming in.
The comments are here tonightbro.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, that's a good one.
You want to start first?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I don't know if I can construct complete definition
of friendship, but I definitelywould say it's a person that you
intentionally choose to have abond with and share experiences,
share intimacy with.
That is platonic.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, I agree.
I think I would add thedefinition of friendship.
It has to be defined betweenthose two people who are friends
.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right, but I think that's the framework.
That's the framework, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, and they have to be able to talk about
expectations.
And you know how often can wecommunicate?
Because I talk to men all thetime and they're like, yeah, I
got people I'm cool with.
I ain't talked to them in acouple months, but every time we
pick up it's good, it's good.
I hear that a lot, lot,especially with me.
I think sometimes we just don'tknow.
We don't know what we don'tknow, and then we end up
(14:29):
addressing the feelings like youknow, we feel lonely, we like
dang what's up with my dog wheremy bro at, but you know what?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
though a lot of relationships, bro, are really
surface, say, say more like alot of people.
For instance, my friend steve,one of my good friends, I
remember he told me early on inour friendship he was like P.
He said you're going to haveproblems having friends, he said
because you're deep.
He said you like to go deep.
He said most people don't liketo go deep.
And I was like you're right.
(14:58):
Most people that I'veencountered in life are really
surfaced because we're not intune.
We don't even know what to dowith the deep.
We don't know what to do withthe, that space within us.
Right, and I've always justbeen a person because the way my
life narrative has been, I haveno choice but to go deep.
I can't be surfing, and so,like for me.
I read, I realized like whenI'm interacting with people, I
(15:18):
can tell me that I'm like, oh,they don't want, they don't
really want to be friends withme.
They want to be, hey, what up,bro, and that's it right, right,
right it's the difference tothe second part of the question
what are the values?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I think that's going to dictate the friendship too,
because if I value something andwe like best boys, you know
best friends, whatever but youdon't value it and it's a stark
difference.
It may be hard to continue therelationship or friendship
because, like, let's say, yousmoking, drinking every day,
that's your, you know, you enjoythat every day.
(15:52):
We trying to hook up and I'mtrying, I'm trying to play
madden, but you so out of it.
The values may be different.
Or if I'm, I'm married, but youjust coming through with just a
plethora of women every day,all day, I'm like bro yeah, Nah
bro.
So yeah, that can interfere too,yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I also think about, like your unprocessed and your
unmet needs and your unprocessedstuff, right.
That can tend to show up inrelationships as well, right?
And I think a lot of times,which is why I think it's
important for men to be on theirhealing journey so that they
can have deeper, meaningfulrelationships, because if not,
it's going to be just what up,bro, let's play Madden and
that's it, and then you're goinghome still depressed, still
(16:40):
thinking about that thing thatyou ain't told nobody about.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, nobody about you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, you know.
One thing interesting too aboutthat kind of a sidebar is that
men connect more by but byactivity too, yeah, but also by
not looking, like we looking ateach other because we don't live
.
But you know a lot of men wechop it up in the barbershop or
playing sports because we don'thave to look directly at each
other and for some men thatcould be really intimidating.
(17:07):
So when we chopping it upplaying the video game, we can
express our feelings.
But I don't have to worry abouthow you're perceiving me.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Let me ask you a question Do you think brothers
are really honest?
In the barbershop.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
If it's a barbershop, if everybody's not, if it's not
a platform like a groupdiscussion, I think they are
Like, if it's you talking toyour barber, I'll say, if I'm
talking to my barber, especiallymy barber I had in Michigan,
not my barber here we still Getto know each other.
Yeah, I mean, I've been going tohim for about two years, but
Aaron said nah, I think itdepends.
(17:43):
Hey, Peace and Prosperityfamily.
I think it depends, hey, Peaceand Prosperity family.
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(18:59):
Now back to the episode.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
So so here's the thing.
Remember I said this right,every man has his own brand of
masculinity, right?
I think certain brands ofmasculinity are accepted in
barbershop settings, thepresentation of it, I think.
Sometimes people conform.
I think some men conform to fitin, even though they're not
being authentic in that moment.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Do you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I think it depends on the barber too, though yeah,
you know, because it depends onthe environment that's created.
I remember before I went to Tim, I used to go to a barber shop
in Harlem Bruh.
I would just be quiet, Iwouldn't say nothing.
I would talk to my barber everynow and then, but other than
that I was like Because you knowhow it is.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's like I have one barber he's going to chop it up
and get deep, and the otherbarber, he's just silly.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I mean not a bad thing.
My client is seven barbers.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That's my client.
Oh yeah, different.
What's up, dr Earl?
What?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
up Dr Earl.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Happy New Year, brother.
I saw another comment too Iwanted to highlight.
Dave said I haven't felt lonelysince taking on the
responsibility of marriage andraising kids.
Less men are getting married intheir 20s.
I believe this is alsocontributing to the loneliness
epidemic.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know, something I always say is that men scream
at a frequency that only theycan hear, like we only know our
screams, right.
And I think part of the problemwith loneliness is that, right,
our scream is internal, it'snot external.
So we can't get the help thatwe need and we can't find
community, those things likethat.
So I think to that point I'veencountered so many married men
(20:41):
who are coming to me who aresaying like yo, I'm lonely even
within my marriage.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I think it's not been okay to really talk about it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, you know what I told my homegirl today.
You know what I said to hertoday.
What's that.
I said, you know, she's marriedto one of my good friends and I
said to her I said you know, ifhe shares his fragility with
you, you still have to see himas a man.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And that a man and that's part of, but that's
that's why they, that's whybrothers, not about to do yeah.
So you, I'm gonna repeat, yousaid if he shares his fragility
with you, you still have to seehim as a man, absolutely,
absolutely.
But how many are really able todo that?
Not even willing, but able, butyeah yeah, I mean, here's the
thing right.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
As men, we're actualized as protectors and
providers.
That's it, right, nothing else.
And so now we're in a spacewhere 80 percent of suicides are
contributed by men.
So that means that we have tobe actualized differently now,
and so we need so.
The need for friendship is anecessity, it's not a luxury,
it's a need we need.
(21:44):
You grow in the context ofcommunity, you don't grow in
isolation.
I'm sorry.
No, I'm listening to.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'm looking at comments.
They they are coming in.
Oh, it's a question, but Aaronsaid this, which I think is
really true Marriage andchildren decrease opportunities
to fellowship due to schedulingand responsibilities, right.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Right, which is which is why I said provider and
protector.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
The question we didn't get to yet how do we move
from doing activities with ourbuddies to becoming friends?
I think that first the activityis necessary because now
there's a common interest.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, and your guard is down a lot when you're doing
activities and you keep showingup, you keep showing up.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And if you want that friendship when you're doing
activities and you keep showingup, you keep showing up, and if
you want that friendship, thenyou're going to have to take
that step and actually bevulnerable.
Ask somebody how they're doingoutside of the game y'all
playing Like.
Ask a simple question thatcould go deep and lead to a
deeper conversation, right.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But I also think, adding on to what you're saying,
I think it's important to knowyour own personal bandwidth and
threshold.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Which as far as like how many friends you can have or
how deep you can go, how deepyou can go or how deep you're
willing to go with somebody.
Yeah, you got to know thatbeforehand, but I think that's
where you know.
I guess that's where we come in, because sometimes people don't
even know how deep they can go.
Right, and their threshold islimited because they've never
(23:08):
really engaged in that waybefore you know what I mean you
know, a lot of times when peoplewe talk to, people that might
be their first time reallyopening up about bro 90 percent
of the time 90 percent of thetime, that is yeah, I because I
I had a brother.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
One time I don't know why, jason I, he was like
coming to me relational issueswith his wife and friendships,
things like that.
I just asked him.
I said I said yo, did anythinghappen to you in childhood?
I don't know why.
He was like, yeah, you know,one time my uncle did this to me
.
I was like wait, wait, wait.
I was like what he's like?
Oh, my uncle did this to mewhen I was seven years old.
(23:43):
I said okay, all right, timeout.
Do you realize how?
This moment that you buried andyou covered over, you skipped
over how now this is impactingyour life and he was like it was
his first time ever admittingit in 40 years.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Really, it was his first admitting and not being
aware of it In that moment.
In 40 years absolutely.
Yeah, I like so.
Dave said men don't take onenough responsibility.
He had another comment tooWithout responsibility, you'll
feel useless.
I think that I'll say that isso tongue-tied.
(24:18):
I think this is what I think.
I think men need mentors andmen need more mentors to stay on
them in a way that's differentfrom what you and I do.
I mean it's similar but it'sstill different.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
To let them know how to take on a responsibility and
how to stay accountable, becauseif not, then they're just
floundering and they may bejumping from issue to issue or
girl to girl or job to job yeahWithout any true guidance.
So we do got to get back to thebasics.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
On being more mentors to younger brothers, and to
kind of add to that, to Jay'spoint, responsibility is
necessary and needed, right,because it does give you a bit
of a framework.
But even within that, you stillneed to know how to deal and
regulate your emotions, dealwith your traumas.
You know what I mean, like havespaces where you can process,
(25:12):
have spaces where you can shareright, because you know, in
therapy is really sharing anexchange of words, right, and so
the more you're able to processand talk about a thing, the
less power it has over you.
You know what I mean.
So it's like responsibility isnecessary, but it's also coupled
with these other things.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Now you all said what are those two things that men
do?
I believe that was when yousaid providers and protectors
yes, yeah, and that's.
I mean, we were taught that.
I know I was personally taughtthat at a young age.
Like, this is your job Provide,protect and teach, that's what
my daddy told me.
Yeah, and don't mess it upeither.
Don't mess it up Therapy withMo.
(25:53):
She said do men trust other menin friendships like they do
women?
I think some men find safespaces with female friends, but
it's different.
That is true, I can attest tothat A lot of times.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I found more safety in my female friendships than I
have in my male friendships.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I think.
For me personally, yeah, if wekicking it, yeah, it feels like
a romantic relationship, but Idon't think all men would just
talk to anyone.
I think, I think, I think it'sright.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I don't think that men in general trust anybody
Right Fundament, anybody Right,Fundamentally right.
But I was saying, like you gotto think about the way I was,
like I was reared, you know whatI mean.
Like I said, I was the only guyin the honors classes, so those
were my friends, right?
You know what I mean.
I didn't necessarily playsports so, like my world was
(26:43):
girls because I was the only boyin the Gifted and Talented
program.
So I just think it depends onthe person.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, thomas, what's your input on men?
Sharing emotions with men?
I think it needs to happen.
I think when we don't, when wedon't, it makes it seem like
something is wrong by beingemotional, like being human.
So sometimes I've been insession and the guy's like man.
I don't know if I should sharethis with you, but I guess I
should share with you becausethis is what I'm paying you for.
(27:12):
You know, even in a session,therapy session, a coaching
session men still second guess.
Should they go there?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But you know what's crazy.
So you and I kind of havemirrored experiences, like in
terms of like losing our parentsand, like you know, losing both
our parents, and like havingyou know, sibling issues and
things like that, and I wouldn'thave known that if I wasn't
vulnerable enough to share mystuff with you.
And then you were like yo, Ifelt seen, because you had a
(27:42):
similar experience.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, and so again, that goes back to the risk and
reward factor.
I took a risk Right, then Ifound a reward.
I was seen, I was heard and youunderstood everything I felt.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
And that's a lot of times what people are looking
for.
What people are looking forbecause a lot of people can't
relate to, you know, losing bothparents, like.
So now you might already feellike, damn, I'm an eyeball, yeah
, I can tell you, but you reallydon't get it right.
It's like if we used to work asdid you work at uh no, you
didn't work at target, did youno?
But if we worked at a similarspace or place, we'll both be
(28:15):
like, oh man, I worked there too.
I know exactly what you'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yes, they sure do do that, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And that commonality, just knowing like, oh okay, you
get it, Absolutely Men do.
I think more men should shareemotions and not just
frustrations.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yes, but then I think you learn to share your
emotions by learning to beintrospective, to identify what
the emotion is.
Yeah, and I think before thatwe need to be introspective.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Being a protector and provider is first.
For me, having good friends isimportant too.
Good friends can help guide youin the direction I got to wait
for the rest, but we can'texpect them to solve our
problems.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
No, for sure, we can't expect them to solve our
problems?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
no, for sure they can't solve it, but I think a
lot of times knowing thatsomebody you process through you
don't maybe yeah.
I'm so like you sorry, bro,maybe they already been there,
so I'm talking to you about itand you like hey, I had the same
thing you like're like.
Oh, okay, okay, bet.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, frustration seems more masculine than
sharing your emotions.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
You know, what I mean and I think frustration is just
common man and it's pissed meoff, I can't believe this
happened, but that's moreempowering than saying, like yo,
I'm hurting Right.
Do y'all have any otherquestions this?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
was good man.
It was good.
We're going in.
I like this.
This is a great subject brother, you picked it well.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
There is a fine line between empowering and enabling.
I think that's why I likecoaching, because it's a little
bit more direct on some things.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Sometimes you just want to know.
Go ahead, go ahead you can readthe comments that sometimes we
just want to know that someonecares and understands like
everybody wants to be seen.
Everybody wants to be seen, andheard.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
It's like this too.
I'll give another example.
Let's say we in a bed, we in aweight room and I'm lifting 205.
I'm trying to get 225 or 250and I can get 225.
But every time I go for 250,you know I can't get more than
two reps.
But then, dave, you like, yeah,hey, the same thing happened to
me.
So then I started doing fliesand then tricep presses, and
(30:32):
that helped get my bench.
I'm like, oh, ok, bet, so I'mnot the only one who had trouble
getting a 250.
I don't feel like something'swrong with me.
I just needed to get adifferent direction or take it a
different angle.
And that's the power of havinga friendship to be able to be
vulnerable and say, hey, I canhit 225, but I cannot hit 250.
You like, hey, I got a cheatcode for you.
(30:54):
Now I'm feeling better about it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, you know.
One thing I want to say to Daveis like nobody solves your
problems.
You process through your issuesand you arrive at a resolve
that you continuously workthrough.
You understand what I'm saying,so you continuously learn how
to process.
You know nobody ever solvesyour problems.
I just want to be very, veryclear about that this is a good
(31:17):
question.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
How do you work with younger men and teens so the
issues can be addressed sooner?
You want to go first yeah, I'llsay this because I've had a
mentor and program with youngboys they were like 8 to 12 and
been a mentor to younger kidsand it's challenging.
We need interventions muchearlier.
And it's challenging, we needinterventions much earlier.
(31:39):
I will say the kids need thesupport, but the parents need
the.
They have to buy in too.
That's one way you have toaddress not just the kid or the
child, but the parents may needsome coaching or some type of
support as well.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Right, because they learn how to process from their
parents.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And their parents have access to, whether or not
they get access to you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Right, and you know one of the things.
I think I told you this right.
I have a program, an emotionalintelligence program, at a
couple of universities here inthe city and one of the biggest
deterrent for young men to getthe help they need is the
perception of being perceived assassy by their female peers.
Right and so like.
(32:23):
It's a thing that we all haveto agree that being healthy is
the right thing, so it's acultural thing.
So we have to kind of breakthat culture.
That's in the minds that thestrong and silent type is where
it's at.
Meanwhile, the strong andsilent type is killing
themselves.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And I think now we need more interventions with the
young men, the teenagers morethan ever, because so much is
happening in the world.
They probably have so manyquestions about you know how do
I handle this?
How do I address this?
Anxiety, yeah, anxiety,Depression.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Like I had a conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Somebody told me now, because of anxiety, kids are
waiting longer to do a lot ofthings, because they're so
anxious about what their peersmay think or what's going to be
on social media.
Absolutely, if you're cool, bro, this would be the last one
from I speak.
Life coaching this is a goodone.
What's the point of entry ofbecoming a man?
When do we know, and what arethose expectations?
(33:17):
I was gonna let you go.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
No, no, no, I'm waiting on you to go, Because I
think I have in my mind, I havesomething.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I think when do we know?
As far as being a man, I neverthought about it like that, me
either.
Now, I guess, if I were toanswer it directly, I want you
to be comfortable with who youare Right Like.
Don't think about, I guess,when.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think about my manhood.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
You determine that and you define that, like in
high school or it just kind ofyou evolve, but you want to make
sure that you're comfortablewith who you are and not look to
somebody else to determine whatthe definition of a man is.
Because when that happens youcan have a skewed vision or
skewed perception, like, oh, Ineed to make X amount to be a
(34:00):
man, I need to make six figures,or I need to be able to lift
this.
But then you do it and you'restill not happy with who you are
.
Are you a man?
Yes and no, by that definitionyou are.
But is that your definition?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Right, you define it, and also, too, if other people
define it for you, then youdon't have any agency.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, so I would want you, or everybody you know,
that's a great question.
You define it and then you meetyour own definition.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, you have the agency to do that.
You're empowered to do that.
Don't measure your manhood bysomeone else's yardstick
Absolutely, dre.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah and Dave, yeah people, you will have some
friends looking at you becauseif you, you know, I know Dave
personally so like if you, ifyou have things together, you
marry, you got a job, you got acareer, you're doing a great job
, people will look at you like,hey, I need some of that, help
me.
And they may look at you toenable them.
(34:54):
So that's when you have toreally put a boundary up so that
you don't enable them them.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So that's when you have to really put a boundary up
so that you don't enable them,I agree Before we wrap.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
What lasting thoughts on anybody listening or if
they're sharing this with ayoung man who may need support.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
What would you say to them?
Oh, wow, I have many thoughtsswirling through my head that
you grow.
You don't grow in isolation,you grow in the context of
community and it's important tofind your tribe right Because
you get expanded.
I've been expanded because ofyou.
You know what I mean.
I've grown because of being infellowship with you and I guess
also you get to define what yourbrand of masculinity is, and
(35:34):
your brand of masculinitydoesn't have to look like
somebody else's.
You get to determine that.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I like what you say as far as community.
Community is so important.
I think we're doing things inisolation, which is cool, but
again I think, man, dave, I'mtrying to I was going to say,
man, the community is important,right?
So I've had, you know, a lot ofdifferent opportunities from
(36:00):
you know, connecting with Aaron,connecting with you, connecting
with Boshay, connecting withMonroe, like, and we've had, you
know, being able to grow ourbrotherhood and friendship, mac
included, trey, dr, earl.
So I think that sometimes wegoing back to friendships, none
of that happens if we don't openup and say, hey, man, what's up
?
You free Thursday night?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Let's do it.
Or when you come to New York,you're like P, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, let's look up.
That's important.
We have to start being moreintentional about friendships
and that'll help solve a lot ofthese issues a lot sooner,
because when we're trying tocome up with answers to big
problems by ourself, we'retaking longer to get to the
answer because we don't haveenough people, great minds,
thinking on a bigger issue, howto solve it.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, and if your voice is the only voice you're
listening to, then you you'reheaded for danger.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and the side that's thedanger of being in the silo.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, bro, All right y'all, we probably going to do a
part two.
This is dope, Yo Jay.
This was great.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
They was good today.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
It was good.
It was good man.
It's real good to be back onhere.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, brother, anytime.
Man, jason, you are amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
You're dope and I'm proud of you, brother, all the
things that are happening foryou.
Yeah, likewise, man Likewise,and I appreciate y'all too.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
We appreciate all of you.
Thank you so much for joiningin.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, peace.
Thank you all for listening toanother episode of the Peace and
Prosperity Podcast.
Again, if you are feeling like,hey, I'm experiencing high
functioning anxiety, don't beatyourself up about it.
It is OK.
We all experience anxiety fromtime to time and I gave you a
couple of things that you can doon your own, but don't hesitate
(37:50):
to reach out to a professionalto better manage what you're
going through.
Ok, and lastly, make sure, ifyou have not like share,
subscribe to the podcast andsend this out to a friend.
And if you want to hear certainepisodes or have certain
conversations, let me know.
(38:10):
You can shoot me a DM or justleave a review and I will
definitely follow up.
All right, y'all Be blessed,peace.
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