November 4, 2025 • 31 mins
The Peace & Prosperity Podcast is a bi-weekly conversation with Jason Phillips, LCSW, licensed therapist and confidence expert in Raleigh, NC, discussing all things related to self-love and self-confidence, and how we can improve ourselves personally and professionally.
In this episode of the Peace & Prosperity Podcast, Dr. Ebony—licensed psychologist and creator of My Therapy Cards—joins Jason for a powerful conversation about money, ambition, and healing. She opens up about leaving secure employment to build a thriving business and how her drive for success was rooted in past financial insecurity. Together, they unpack how ambition can be a trauma response and why true success is about freedom, flexibility, and purpose—not just income. Dr. Ebony leaves listeners with this reminder: “Give yourself permission to course correct.”
To stay connected with Jason and learn about coaching, connect with Jason on social media:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jphillipsmsw/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jphillipsmsw
Visit Jason's website for a consultation:
Website -https://www.jasonlphillips.com
To book Jason to speak to your team or organization:
https://peaceprosperitycoaching.hbportal.co/public/660d8068c9d2d600253b215b/1-Inquiry
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
just the pressure and the more inflation happens.
Economy changes.
It changes our field too, right.
And then we're competing toowith tech companies and we're
competing with all of thesethings.
So it is, they are real factors.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast, where we
talk mental wellness,confidence and reallife tools to
help high achievers thrive.
I'm your host, jason Phillips,licensed therapist, speaker
coach, and I'm glad you're here.
Let's get into the episode, allright, y'all?
(00:39):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Peace and Prosperity Podcast
.
I have one of my good friendsand you've been on the podcast.
It's been years ago, it's beenyears.
Welcome back, Dr Ebony.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm glad to be here, glad to beback always.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, and I was going to ask you, so you're in
Atlanta now.
Yep in Atlanta.
Has it been two years or one?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's been one.
I just made one full year, June14th.
I cannot believe that it'salready been a year.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Are you liking it?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I love Atlanta.
I love Atlanta for everythingthat Atlanta is all the
shenanigans, all the things.
I really like it here.
It's been refreshing to comehere from Austin.
I can't say so.
I really do like Atlanta.
Now I don't know how long I'mgoing to be here, but I like it
for what it is now.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Would you say, the food is better here.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
No Well in Austin compared to Austin.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
But Houston absolutely not.
Oh, yes, yeah.
So yeah, I've been to Houstononce and it was really good.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It's good because it's so like.
I think atlanta is diverse, butI think houston got a lot of
the southern folks too, fromlouisiana, let me say that, a
lot of the louisiana folks.
I really love louisiana cuisineand so I just think that it's
just so much more diverse.
I think it's definitely afoodie town.
I feel like atlanta is knownfor wings yeah yeah, and then
(02:03):
lamb chops and salmon bites.
But you don't get thateverywhere and I'm just like I
am lamb chops out, I'm salmonbites.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I haven't had salmon in two, three days already.
So I know we just jumped rightin, but some people don't know
you.
I mean you are super dope.
Do you want to introduceyourself?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I sure will Thank you .
So I'm Dr Ebony.
I'm a licensed psychologist andI also I have a private
practice where I work with blackwomen, other folks of color,
around trauma recovery andhelping, support them and just
advocating for themselves,getting their voice back.
I'm also a food relationshipstrategist, which is just kind
of like helping peopleunderstand how to have a
(02:39):
healthier relationship with food, and not really weight loss
center, but really like how tobuild a healthy connection with
food that's not riddled withguilt, but really like how to
build a healthy connection withfood that's not riddled with
guilt or shame or rules.
And then I'm the creator of myTherapy Cards, which is a card
deck created for initially forBlack women, to help them gain
insight into some of the mentalblocks, behavior blocks and like
(02:59):
emotional triggers that tend tokeep us back.
But then that line has grown toinclude teens, men and not
relationships.
So, outside of those things,speaking, consulting all the
things, but wearing all the hats.
So that's typically what I'mdoing day to day.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
We're going to talk about it.
And so you've been in the fieldfor not 20 years yet, right
You've?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
been in the field for not 20 years yet, right?
Oh, jason, I've been licensedsince 2014, but I've been doing
this work, I think, since 2008.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Dang.
So yeah, you're coming up on it, yeah.
I'm coming up on it Three years, that's 20.
So I want to ask you becausewe're going to talk about your
trajectory and how you balanceit all, but, like, as you evolve
from being a clinician, apsychologist, like we have
similar backgrounds, working for, like federal systems and then
(03:58):
going into, like privatepractice and speaking, what was
that like for you to make someof those pivots?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, I think pivoting, honestly is the name
of the game, like if I'velearned anything else over all
these years, it's pivoting isthe name of the game.
And pivoting is always hard forme.
So I'm a person who doesn't Idon't like change, but I know
that change happens.
So I'm a person who always likefights against change at first
and then just kind of like doesit anyway, because I know that
(04:26):
on the other side of change isexactly where I need to be.
So it's always a mental game.
It's always like I call itmental jujitsu, where we're
always trying to figure out whatis this going to look like?
Because it's scary.
And I have lived my life withpredictability and that's like
growing up.
How I grew, grew up.
Predictability has always feltsafer.
So in entrepreneurship, in thiscareer, you really don't have a
(04:48):
lot of predictability when thepivoting is happening.
So that can always be reallyreally scary.
So for me, I think that I'vejust tried to put as many
foundational pieces together tomake myself feel like I can
understand and prepare at leastthe best I can for what's coming
up next.
But but it's not always easy.
But one of the things I'velearned in this almost 20-year
(05:09):
career is that I can trustmyself, and that's always hard
to believe.
Sometimes the different seasonsgive you a different test to
figure out if you trust yourselfand just learn how to trust
yourself more.
So I feel like I trust myselfand I know that it's always
going to work out.
I may not know how it's goingto look or where I'm going to
(05:29):
land, but I always know thatit's going to work out, and so I
trust in myself has beenhelpful with the pivoting yeah,
because I'm thinking back onlike our friendship.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's been like six years.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
It's been a long time .
That's a minute, because that'sa minute.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Because I'm like we were both working for again
bigger, more, I guess securesystems where you knew what your
time off was going to look like, you knew what your pay was
going to look like, you knew allthe things.
So you're going to add privatepractice and then eventually go
into full-time entrepreneurship.
One, how scary was that.
(06:05):
And then how did you?
Was there ever a time where youreally was like I don't know?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh, all the time.
I'm still like that all day,every day, like I still don't
know how to have all the answers, but I know the season that I'm
in.
So I feel like going from avery secure job working for
federal, city municipalities andall that stuff, I feel like it
had to make sense to me.
I'm a person who's alwaysleaned on logic because logic is
(06:32):
predictable, right.
So it's always had to makesense to me.
And I remember being in therapybecause I had to process this
in therapy and I remember, likeam I ready to leave this city
job?
Like it's so secure and thenumbers had to line up for me.
And I said, if I'm not makingwhat I'm making, leave this city
job.
Like it's so secure and thenumbers had to line up for me.
And I said, if I'm not makingwhat I'm making in this city job
in my private practice, itdoesn't make sense for me to
jump out of it by myself.
(06:52):
So when I started making thesame amount of money, I was like
I'm good to go and that's whenI felt safe.
But it literally had to makesense to me.
I had to see the logic and thenumbers line up, otherwise I
don't think that would have feltsafe for me.
And even now I'm like okay, sowhat feels safe?
What's going to be an easierlanding?
(07:13):
Not that it's going to be easy,but which option is going to
give me the easier, softerlanding?
Because I don't like hardlandings.
Not even when I'm traveling noLand, this plane smoothly things
, not even when I'm travelinglike no land, this plane move
smoothly, as smooth as we can.
But I think it's been like thatfor me in terms of like, okay,
it needs to make sense.
I like logic.
(07:33):
How can I, how can Istrategically do this?
And that's kind of what has, Ithink, helped me most mostly.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I'm also hearing, too , that that you sought out other
professional help.
I know you work with greatcoaches.
Sounds like you had greattherapists, too, to help you
process these big moves.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Absolutely.
There is no way in my anxiousmind that I would be doing this
by myself.
You have to have a team,because there are things that
you can't see, that they can see.
My therapist even even and thisis really good because people
think you have to go to therapyto be in crisis.
We actually pulled up thenumbers together and she was
like okay, how much are youmaking?
I'm not an, I'm not youraccountant, but how much are you
(08:15):
making?
How much do you stand to makeif you leave now versus leaving
next year?
Can you stand to leave that onthe table?
So it doesn't make sense to itmakes sense to wait a year.
And so we actually did that workin session together.
She's like I don't know aboutyou, but I don't have X amount
of dollars to leave on the table, so I'm going to leave right
now.
And so we kind of did that work.
I was like, okay, that makessense.
(08:35):
But an accountant, a therapist,other friends who are like,
okay, do you need to do thisthat much?
Like, do you need to devote somuch time to that thing?
Maybe you can look at itanother way or do something else
in the meantime.
But yeah, definitely not byyourself.
I think we have so many blindspots we can't do that by
ourselves.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
OK, so you talked about the numbers.
It had to make sensenumerically.
But then what about the otherpart of, like you know, going
full time entrepreneurship?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
What would have been some of the, I guess, the
drawbacks, but then the benefitsto the benefits is always the
freedom.
The benefits is always going tobe the freedom and the
liberation to create your income.
However you want that to look,it's always going to be that I
get.
Even if I work 12 hours a day,it's because I wanted to work 12
hours a day and not becausesomebody else made me work 12
hours a day a day is because Iwanted to work 12 hours a day
and not because somebody elsemade me work 12 hours a day.
So a lot of people ask me youwork so much?
And I was like I think whenyou're an entrepreneur, you work
more than you would if you wereworking for somebody else,
(09:31):
because you're building, you'recreating.
You don't have all the bigsystems in place that folks do a
lot of times.
So I think that is more.
Flexibility has always beensomething that's been a value of
mine with my career.
I've always chosen jobs thatallowed me to have some
flexibility and say so, andchoice in my schedule, so that
aligns with my values.
(09:51):
Now the other side of it, whichis the emotional side of
entrepreneurship, is like it'sscary and like some days.
I remember, just for fulltransparency.
I remember waking up probablylast in 2023.
I remember waking up on arandom Tuesday.
I had just gotten a divorce andI think the divorce was
finalized in August or somethinglike that.
(10:13):
And I remember waking up on arandom Tuesday and I was like,
oh, I need more money.
So I went on LinkedIn because Iwas like I was about to be by
myself, like this is how you doa one person household, one
person income.
I was like, oh my God, so Itake my little impulse itself to
LinkedIn and I got a testingcontract.
(10:33):
I emailed the company.
They were looking for a testingpsychologist.
That was Tuesday, I think.
By the next Friday I wascontracted with them to do ADHD
and autism.
And that's just how it happened,but it was.
It was scary.
So out of my fear I said, okay,I need to do something else,
and so it worked out that Ineeded to add that branch to my
practice.
But, yeah, it was scary, and itsometimes is scary because you
(10:56):
don't know what.
You don't know whatentrepreneurship is going to
bring, especially in thiseconomy, in this society where
we are now.
It can be, it can be reallydifficult emotionally.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So me, I'm looking at you from the outside and I feel
like you know we have similarwork ethics.
You might go harder, I don'tknow, though, because you work,
you work, you work, and it seemslike it's sometimes work or
(11:27):
work slash.
Money can be like a copingresponse, like, oh, I'm feeling
a little nervous, scared, let meget some.
Let me see you come in, andthen you just go ahead and just
get a bag real quick, like isthat accurate?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's very accurate and I'm laughing because we just
are talking about this intherapy.
Oh, I just processed this withmy therapy last week in my
therapy and so what she said wasthat the more money is safety
to me, like, honestly, money issafety because of how I grew up.
I never want to do that.
So this ambition that peoplesee I don't think I've been shy
about saying it, I think I sayit every time I'm on a podcast
(11:57):
but this ambition that peoplesee and I don't think I've been
shy about saying it, I think Isay it every time I'm on a
podcast but this ambition thatpeople see, this overachiever,
it is for sure a trauma response.
So I happen, I'm successfulbecause of trauma and I'm
continuously trying to run awayfrom trauma.
But also it gets me in troublebecause the more I want to
create a life of freedom, themore I pigeonhole myself into
(12:20):
projects, into responsibilities.
So the life that I want to liveis one where I can randomly
take a break and take lunch,where I can go meet my friends
and go hang out.
I can't do that with back toback, back to back.
So what my therapist said wasthe more you chase money, the
less you're able to do thethings that you really want to
(12:40):
do.
So, yes, you've got money, butyou don't have the life that you
envisioned for yourself.
You don't have the ability tospontaneously go meet your
friend for lunch.
You don't have the spontaneityto be able to just say I'm just
going to take a day tripsomewhere.
You don't have that.
Everything is booked aroundyour life is booked around your
appointments and I was like youknow what?
You have a really good point.
So there's there needs to besome balance, and so that's what
(13:02):
I'm working on now and I thinkin some seasons I have more
balance than other seasons.
But as a single person nowhaving to pay for these, I tell
people all the time I got thesebig windows, having to pay for
these big windows.
Sometimes it can be reallyscary to be like OK, I got to do
this and I got to.
So a lot of my trauma responsearound money is that it doesn't
(13:24):
ever feel like enough.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Say that again.
You got to say that one moretime.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
One of my trauma responses around money is no
matter how much money I have, itnever feels like enough.
So I'm always like, well, Ineed more, and I need more and
and I can't really in the pastlike I'm recently kind of like
coming to terms with a lot oflike settling in as a single
person, doing this by myself andthat kind of thing.
Like you are okay, and one ofthe questions that I'm working
(13:53):
on is what's enough?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
so that's where I am in this season, like what's
enough yeah, and that's where Iam in this season Like what's
enough.
I can see how that, you knowcause, like again when we met
back in 2018 or 19,.
We both are making more thanwhat we did back then.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, but then sometimes you still like I need
some more, I need more.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Eggs are going up.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You said what.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Eggs are going up, tickets are going up, everything
.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And I going up tickets are going up everything
and I will say this because youlive in atlanta, I'm sure the
cost of living is way more thanit was in austin.
Like it.
It costs here.
And you know me, being a newdad, I can relate in the sense
where I'm always thinking like,okay, now I got not just a wife
but I got a daughter, so I'mlike I need some more like.
(14:40):
So that's kind of similar.
Like you're single, so you feellike I gotta get to the bag.
I have more people in thefamily, so I'm feeling the same
way just the pressure and andthe more inflation happens.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Economy changes.
It changes our field too, andthen we're competing too with
tech companies and we'recompeting with all of these
things.
So it is, they are real factorsat play.
And I don't have any kids, butI have two dogs that never grow
up and they always have to betaken care of.
You know what I mean.
So even if I wanted to travel,I already know I have to pay
(15:14):
somebody to take care of them.
Travel, I already know I haveto pay somebody to take care of
them.
So it's always an expense andthat's a lot too, and I think
these are the things peopledon't talk about openly a lot.
As entrepreneurs, it's likethere are a lot of expenses,
even if it's not overheadexpense because you work from
home.
There are a lot of things thatyou have to have in place to
live the life that you want tolive and it just is that.
(15:39):
But outside of that, the traumaof always chasing money.
That definitely requires somebalance and some work, and I'm
working on that now because itcould be really scary to kind of
like OK, so you want me toreally block off this day when I
can make this amount.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Right the whole day.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
The whole day.
Just not make any money today,Like no.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's so funny.
I think that's why we cool Letme.
I'm pulling up something I sawon Facebook yesterday and I want
to read it to you.
So would you rather have 10,000guaranteed each month for doing
nothing, or 100,000 a month,but you have to work 12 hours a
(16:20):
day, Monday through Friday.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
What's the first number?
10,000?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
10,000 a month doing nothing, or a hundred K, but you
work Monday through Friday 12hours.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
To be quite honest, I think I'm gonna go with the 10
hours a month doing nothingbecause that aligns more with my
values and I think the stickershock of a hundred thousand
dollars sounds great, but,honestly, 12 hours a day is
insanity.
Yeah, 12 hours a day doing thiswork is insanity, yeah, monday
through friday is insanity.
(16:53):
Maybe I found it um you saidwhat?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
maybe if I'm lifting boxes or something like?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
or if I'm speaking yeah, because I can run my mouth
all the time.
Yeah, I can speak, I canconsult.
But doing therapy, writingreports, writing notes, keeping
people out of crisis, managingyour own crisis I don't think I
can do that 12 hours a day,monday through Friday, because
(17:19):
Saturday and Sunday I'm playingcatch up you falling in line
with like 90.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I'll say there's like 40 people commented and uh like
35 of them maybe 37 said 10k amonth.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So because where do you enjoy anywhere else doing
that like doing nothing and andmy nothing like, if I don't have
to do this, work, cool.
But I can't also do nothing.
So I'm gonna be, I'm gonna havea hobby doing something, I'm
gonna be making something,creating something, creating
content about how I'm doingnothing like it's going to be
something.
(17:52):
Right, I can't just do nothing.
That's gonna run me insane.
But also the excess is notworth it either, because you get
sick.
You don't sleep.
12 hours a day for five days aweek is crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That sticker shot of 100K does sound good, but I
haven't worked 12 hours Mondaythrough Friday in a very long
time, especially at this agelike we over yeah, I'm gonna put
y'all, I know we over 40 43,I'm counting my planner.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I work 10 hour days doing testing on tuesday and
thursday okay, today andwednesday.
That runs me insane.
That's only 10 hours doingtesting and I might have a
meeting or two after that.
That is not sustainable,because there have been several
days when I've woken up I waslike how long am I going to do
this?
Is this sustainable?
(18:53):
It's not sustainable this way.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'm glad you kind of said that.
So let's talk about success andlike one I'm going to ask you
what does success mean to you?
And then how has that evolvedover time?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So there was a time when success meant money.
How much money do I have?
How does my house look?
Never cared about the kind ofcar I drive, because I'm not a
car person, but other peoplelook at what you drive and it's
like, oh, you're successful.
It never really mattered to me,but it was all about, like, how
my house looks.
Am I able to buy the thingsthat I want to buy?
(19:30):
Am I able to afford the thingsI want to afford?
So it's all centered aroundmoney.
Now I think success looks likehow much choice do I have?
And that's where I'm trying toget more to.
If I was to think about aspectrum, I'm moving more away
from the far ends of successbeing surrounded by money.
To more, I would say I'm more.
I'm more.
A little I'm closer to.
(19:53):
Success is how much freedom doI have?
How much choice do I have?
But I'm not completely there.
I'm still working on wrappingmy brain around.
Money isn't everything.
You know what I mean.
I'm just from a trauma aspect.
But now success is do I have achoice?
Can I go where I want to gowhen I go to a restaurant?
This is what success feels like, because we're both food Right
(20:15):
yeah.
It looks like can I have a drink?
Can right, yeah, it looks like.
Can I have a drink?
Can I buy an appetizer if Iwant to do I have an entree.
And can I get a dessert if Iwanted it and if I wanted to do
more, can I do that?
That's what success looks liketo me.
Can I eat what I want to eatwithout thinking about oh no, I
can't buy that?
Because that is also my trauma,because I remember growing up
we had to all.
We all would get a dollarwalker from burger king and then
(20:37):
we all had to share the friesbecause there was three of us.
Now can I have my own fries, myown drink?
Can I buy myself an extra drinkif I wanted it?
Can I go to this restaurant andsplurge?
That's what success feels liketo me.
And when I go on trips, can Ilive how I want to live on
vacation.
That feels successful.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
No, I'm glad you said that, like, can you go to the
restaurant, order the drink, theappetizer?
Cause I will never forget, Ihad just got out of grad school
and I went out on this date andI think it was like my first
real job, so it still wasn't alot.
And I took this girl out andshe ordered like the appetizer.
(21:15):
She ordered a soft drink, shehad a salad, she had the entree,
then she hit me with dessert.
I was like, are we goingbowling?
I was like we are done afterthis how much money do you think
I have Exactly?
I felt like she was just buyingstuff just because she knew I
(21:37):
was.
I was like like man, neveragain yeah, this is a hundred
dollars and I never forget that.
Like so I get what you'resaying, like now being able to
go out to eat and just be likeokay, yeah, I'm gonna get
whatever I want and I'm cool,I'm okay yeah, and that feels
good to me and it's like okay,this feels successful.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I'm not coming running back home like oh my god
, waking up depressed the nextday, like that doesn't feel.
That feels like okay, I havethe freedom and flexibility to
spend where I want to spend,because I'm not a bad girl.
Like I'll see, the bags thatI'm interested in now are black
designers and things like that.
Like I'm not a bad girl.
I'm not a car girl.
I'm not like I need the latestshoes or all that girl.
(22:20):
I am like functional when itcomes to wardrobe and things
like that.
Like I like nice things but itneeds to also be functional.
But where I want to splurge ison my food and my travel.
I want experiences.
So am I successful enough togive myself experiences?
That's what I want, andexperience doesn't have to cost
(22:42):
a lot of money.
But can I go to the botanicalgarden?
Can I go?
And when my friends come intown, can we go to the aquarium?
Can I treat them for theirbirthday?
Can I buy their meal or can Ihave something at my place, and
it feel comfortable for me.
Those are the things that Ilook forward to because they
(23:03):
align with my values aroundconnection and community and
that kind of thing, and sothat's what I want to be doing
with my time and my energy andmy money honestly.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Love it, love it, so I want to.
Before we wrap up, you got totalk about your baby, which is,
uh, my therapy cards.
Yeah, how did you come to thenlike, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
My therapy cards is definitely a baby that is just
continuing to grow.
I feel like I created them onebecause, again in 2019, I was
like how can I reach more peoplewithout needing to do
one-on-one work?
How can I be with people butit's not me?
You know what I mean.
(23:46):
Like how can people feel likethey're working with me but they
don't have to be working withme?
And so I was like I can doguides, I can do workshops here
and there, like on demand, andthen, literally, this is
honestly how my move to Atlantahappened too.
I literally was sitting down oneday somewhere and it was like
you can put it, you create a cardate.
And I was like, oh, itliterally just came to me.
(24:09):
Like that Moving to Atlantacame to me like that, too.
I was sitting at home and I waslike I was going to move to
Houston and someone said or youcan just move to Atlanta, it
literally downloads, just likethat.
And so when the cards cameabout, I was like, okay, it was
going to be a full relationshipcar date.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And then the pandemic happened and I was like, oh, I
have to pivot.
So all of this is full circle,right.
I was like, oh, I have to pivot.
People don't want to be toldduring a pandemic what they need
to eat.
Let's go ahead and release thetherapy card at first, rather
than the full relationship card.
So that's how that happened and, jason, thank you, you have
been focused with me on each oneof the card decks, but I
appreciate you so much for that.
But, yeah, yeah, that's howthey were born and they're doing
well.
What I'm learning in this seasonis that the cards do so much
(24:53):
better in person, so I'm havingto do a lot more in-person
venting.
They got a lot more conferencesBecause people want it as a
physical product.
Right, it was fine when we wereall in the house and it was
online, but people want to seehow things work, they want to
touch, they want to read, theywant to see, and so they do a
lot better in person, and so I'mhaving to just get out more
with that and do more brandawareness in that way.
(25:14):
But they're still doing reallywell and I'm so super grateful
and the cars work.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
like you know my clients they love when I'm
pulling out the deck and goingthrough them, because one I know
you know it's like it's greatinformation.
Like you really put it, eachpart of the cars.
Like you didn't just slap ittogether and this was before AI
was even a thing too Right.
So like you really did the workwork.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
So I need to put that as a marketing.
That's what I need to createsome content around it.
Like these cars were createdprior to AI.
Like you can go on AI now andjust get any questions right.
But these cards really camefrom people who are doing this
work myself and then people likeyou and other focus group
consultants like that were likeno, this is not a good question.
You need to work that this way.
You need to work it another way.
(26:00):
It really really was the workof the people who are in this
field.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, so, and you made a point too, like by
getting experts to to like vetthe cars and you listen to the
feedback.
You was that hard.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You know it's.
It's it kind of is because I'mwordy I don't know if y'all can
tell, but I talk a lot, but it'sI'm really wordy and so I want
to kind of put all the wordstogether in a sentence, but they
only have a little bit of space.
So I think the hardest part wasyou can't ask that like that.
You need to, you need to askthem in a different way and I'm
like but it's not getting acrossthe essence of what I want to
ask.
Right, but that was the hardestpart.
(26:38):
It wasn't hard to be told thatquestion doesn't make any sense,
no Cause I I came to terms along time ago that I don't know
everything and that there arepeople who do this work that ask
far better questions than I do,that ask them in a far
different way, and that I don'thave to know everything.
And it is not personal that Idon't know everything.
So no, that wasn't hard, it wasjust.
(26:58):
How do I shrink this down toget this across in the way that
I intend to get it across?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And I'll say this too , like in terms of AI versus,
you know, work with real people,like real people, come up with
even better questions, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, I think so too, even when I'm looking at the
way I summarize some notes,sometimes I'm like, yeah, I'm
gonna take that out and just putit the way I want to put it.
Yeah, that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
If somebody is listening, you want them to take
away a particular message ortheme from the work you're doing
and what you've learned overyour years.
What would that be?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Give yourself permission to change course.
Give yourself permission tocourse correct.
Pivot.
You don't have to have an ideaand be married to that.
This is some people feel somuch shame around like oh well,
I started out this way.
What do people think about meif I turn to start doing
something else?
Give yourself permission tounderstand that entrepreneurship
is all about figuring it outand give yourself permission to
(27:55):
not have it all together.
Nobody has it all together Likethese.
People are constantly trying tofigure it out all the time, and
the example that I use is likeDoritos even had chicken flavor
Doritos.
They're always testing things.
Give yourself permission to test, and it doesn't have to be
perfect.
I think that as small businessowners, as entrepreneurs, we
think we have to have things soperfectly put together.
(28:17):
Nobody does.
So give yourself a chance tofigure it out, to pivot and to
just be exploratory in thiswhole journey.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I got to say that you bringing up Doritos.
Do you remember when Cool Ranchcame out?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, when we were younger.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, that was a big deal, the Cool Ranch.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
That was a big deal.
It was like, oh, this isdifferent, and then it stuck.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And now they're more popular?
I think they're arguably morepopular than the regular ones.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, I think so too.
I think so too.
But they pivoted and theyallowed themselves.
You know?
Another good example Taco Bell.
Taco Bell's new slogan now isthe taco place.
That is also a chicken place,that is also a sandwich place,
that is also a burger place.
They know they have to changewith the time and so they're
(29:04):
like.
All their commercials now arelike Taco Bell.
Taco place is also a chickenplace, it's also a burger place.
So pivot.
They're changing with whatcustomers want, and if you don't
do that, you will phaseyourself out.
So be willing to change.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I love it.
Dr Ebony, where can people lookyou up online and your website?
Can you put all thatinformation?
I'll have it in the show notes,but just can you give a brief
on that?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram.
My handle is at Dr Ebony onlineand you can go to my website,
drebonycom, to see where I'mpracticing as far as therapy
licensed in over 40 plus states,and then mytherapycardsshop is
where you can learn more aboutthe therapy cards.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And I'll have it in the show notes too.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
All right, dr.
Ebony, I appreciate you.
Thank you, jason, I appreciateyou.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Thanks for tuning in to the Peace and Prosperity
Podcast.
If today's episode brought youclarity, encouragement or even a
moment of calm, share it withsomeone who needs to hear it too
.
Your support helps us keepthese conversations going.
And remember you don't have todo it all alone.
(30:14):
If you're navigating stress,burnout or just need a space to
reset, I'm here to support you.
Connect with me atjasonlphillipscom, or send me a
message on social mediaSintLPhillipscom.
Or send me a message on socialmedia.
Until next time, protect yourpeace, pursue your purpose and
keep showing up for you.
(30:35):
Be blessed you.
just the pressure and the more inflation happens.
Economy changes.
It changes our field too, right.
And then we're competing toowith tech companies and we're
competing with all of thesethings.
So it is, they are real factors.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Peace and Prosperity Podcast, where we
talk mental wellness,confidence and reallife tools to
help high achievers thrive.
I'm your host, jason Phillips,licensed therapist, speaker
coach, and I'm glad you're here.
Let's get into the episode, allright, y'all?
(00:39):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Peace and Prosperity Podcast
.
I have one of my good friendsand you've been on the podcast.
It's been years ago, it's beenyears.
Welcome back, Dr Ebony.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm glad to be here, glad to beback always.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, and I was going to ask you, so you're in
Atlanta now.
Yep in Atlanta.
Has it been two years or one?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's been one.
I just made one full year, June14th.
I cannot believe that it'salready been a year.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Are you liking it?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I love Atlanta.
I love Atlanta for everythingthat Atlanta is all the
shenanigans, all the things.
I really like it here.
It's been refreshing to comehere from Austin.
I can't say so.
I really do like Atlanta.
Now I don't know how long I'mgoing to be here, but I like it
for what it is now.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Would you say, the food is better here.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
No Well in Austin compared to Austin.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
But Houston absolutely not.
Oh, yes, yeah.
So yeah, I've been to Houstononce and it was really good.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It's good because it's so like.
I think atlanta is diverse, butI think houston got a lot of
the southern folks too, fromlouisiana, let me say that, a
lot of the louisiana folks.
I really love louisiana cuisineand so I just think that it's
just so much more diverse.
I think it's definitely afoodie town.
I feel like atlanta is knownfor wings yeah yeah, and then
(02:03):
lamb chops and salmon bites.
But you don't get thateverywhere and I'm just like I
am lamb chops out, I'm salmonbites.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I haven't had salmon in two, three days already.
So I know we just jumped rightin, but some people don't know
you.
I mean you are super dope.
Do you want to introduceyourself?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I sure will Thank you .
So I'm Dr Ebony.
I'm a licensed psychologist andI also I have a private
practice where I work with blackwomen, other folks of color,
around trauma recovery andhelping, support them and just
advocating for themselves,getting their voice back.
I'm also a food relationshipstrategist, which is just kind
of like helping peopleunderstand how to have a
(02:39):
healthier relationship with food, and not really weight loss
center, but really like how tobuild a healthy connection with
food that's not riddled withguilt, but really like how to
build a healthy connection withfood that's not riddled with
guilt or shame or rules.
And then I'm the creator of myTherapy Cards, which is a card
deck created for initially forBlack women, to help them gain
insight into some of the mentalblocks, behavior blocks and like
(02:59):
emotional triggers that tend tokeep us back.
But then that line has grown toinclude teens, men and not
relationships.
So, outside of those things,speaking, consulting all the
things, but wearing all the hats.
So that's typically what I'mdoing day to day.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
We're going to talk about it.
And so you've been in the fieldfor not 20 years yet, right
You've?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
been in the field for not 20 years yet, right?
Oh, jason, I've been licensedsince 2014, but I've been doing
this work, I think, since 2008.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Dang.
So yeah, you're coming up on it, yeah.
I'm coming up on it Three years, that's 20.
So I want to ask you becausewe're going to talk about your
trajectory and how you balanceit all, but, like, as you evolve
from being a clinician, apsychologist, like we have
similar backgrounds, working for, like federal systems and then
(03:58):
going into, like privatepractice and speaking, what was
that like for you to make someof those pivots?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, I think pivoting, honestly is the name
of the game, like if I'velearned anything else over all
these years, it's pivoting isthe name of the game.
And pivoting is always hard forme.
So I'm a person who doesn't Idon't like change, but I know
that change happens.
So I'm a person who always likefights against change at first
and then just kind of like doesit anyway, because I know that
(04:26):
on the other side of change isexactly where I need to be.
So it's always a mental game.
It's always like I call itmental jujitsu, where we're
always trying to figure out whatis this going to look like?
Because it's scary.
And I have lived my life withpredictability and that's like
growing up.
How I grew, grew up.
Predictability has always feltsafer.
So in entrepreneurship, in thiscareer, you really don't have a
(04:48):
lot of predictability when thepivoting is happening.
So that can always be reallyreally scary.
So for me, I think that I'vejust tried to put as many
foundational pieces together tomake myself feel like I can
understand and prepare at leastthe best I can for what's coming
up next.
But but it's not always easy.
But one of the things I'velearned in this almost 20-year
(05:09):
career is that I can trustmyself, and that's always hard
to believe.
Sometimes the different seasonsgive you a different test to
figure out if you trust yourselfand just learn how to trust
yourself more.
So I feel like I trust myselfand I know that it's always
going to work out.
I may not know how it's goingto look or where I'm going to
(05:29):
land, but I always know thatit's going to work out, and so I
trust in myself has beenhelpful with the pivoting yeah,
because I'm thinking back onlike our friendship.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's been like six years.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
It's been a long time .
That's a minute, because that'sa minute.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Because I'm like we were both working for again
bigger, more, I guess securesystems where you knew what your
time off was going to look like, you knew what your pay was
going to look like, you knew allthe things.
So you're going to add privatepractice and then eventually go
into full-time entrepreneurship.
One, how scary was that.
(06:05):
And then how did you?
Was there ever a time where youreally was like I don't know?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh, all the time.
I'm still like that all day,every day, like I still don't
know how to have all the answers, but I know the season that I'm
in.
So I feel like going from avery secure job working for
federal, city municipalities andall that stuff, I feel like it
had to make sense to me.
I'm a person who's alwaysleaned on logic because logic is
(06:32):
predictable, right.
So it's always had to makesense to me.
And I remember being in therapybecause I had to process this
in therapy and I remember, likeam I ready to leave this city
job?
Like it's so secure and thenumbers had to line up for me.
And I said, if I'm not makingwhat I'm making, leave this city
job.
Like it's so secure and thenumbers had to line up for me.
And I said, if I'm not makingwhat I'm making in this city job
in my private practice, itdoesn't make sense for me to
jump out of it by myself.
(06:52):
So when I started making thesame amount of money, I was like
I'm good to go and that's whenI felt safe.
But it literally had to makesense to me.
I had to see the logic and thenumbers line up, otherwise I
don't think that would have feltsafe for me.
And even now I'm like okay, sowhat feels safe?
What's going to be an easierlanding?
(07:13):
Not that it's going to be easy,but which option is going to
give me the easier, softerlanding?
Because I don't like hardlandings.
Not even when I'm traveling noLand, this plane smoothly things
, not even when I'm travelinglike no land, this plane move
smoothly, as smooth as we can.
But I think it's been like thatfor me in terms of like, okay,
it needs to make sense.
I like logic.
(07:33):
How can I, how can Istrategically do this?
And that's kind of what has, Ithink, helped me most mostly.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I'm also hearing, too , that that you sought out other
professional help.
I know you work with greatcoaches.
Sounds like you had greattherapists, too, to help you
process these big moves.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Absolutely.
There is no way in my anxiousmind that I would be doing this
by myself.
You have to have a team,because there are things that
you can't see, that they can see.
My therapist even even and thisis really good because people
think you have to go to therapyto be in crisis.
We actually pulled up thenumbers together and she was
like okay, how much are youmaking?
I'm not an, I'm not youraccountant, but how much are you
(08:15):
making?
How much do you stand to makeif you leave now versus leaving
next year?
Can you stand to leave that onthe table?
So it doesn't make sense to itmakes sense to wait a year.
And so we actually did that workin session together.
She's like I don't know aboutyou, but I don't have X amount
of dollars to leave on the table, so I'm going to leave right
now.
And so we kind of did that work.
I was like, okay, that makessense.
(08:35):
But an accountant, a therapist,other friends who are like,
okay, do you need to do thisthat much?
Like, do you need to devote somuch time to that thing?
Maybe you can look at itanother way or do something else
in the meantime.
But yeah, definitely not byyourself.
I think we have so many blindspots we can't do that by
ourselves.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
OK, so you talked about the numbers.
It had to make sensenumerically.
But then what about the otherpart of, like you know, going
full time entrepreneurship?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
What would have been some of the, I guess, the
drawbacks, but then the benefitsto the benefits is always the
freedom.
The benefits is always going tobe the freedom and the
liberation to create your income.
However you want that to look,it's always going to be that I
get.
Even if I work 12 hours a day,it's because I wanted to work 12
hours a day and not becausesomebody else made me work 12
hours a day a day is because Iwanted to work 12 hours a day
and not because somebody elsemade me work 12 hours a day.
So a lot of people ask me youwork so much?
And I was like I think whenyou're an entrepreneur, you work
more than you would if you wereworking for somebody else,
(09:31):
because you're building, you'recreating.
You don't have all the bigsystems in place that folks do a
lot of times.
So I think that is more.
Flexibility has always beensomething that's been a value of
mine with my career.
I've always chosen jobs thatallowed me to have some
flexibility and say so, andchoice in my schedule, so that
aligns with my values.
(09:51):
Now the other side of it, whichis the emotional side of
entrepreneurship, is like it'sscary and like some days.
I remember, just for fulltransparency.
I remember waking up probablylast in 2023.
I remember waking up on arandom Tuesday.
I had just gotten a divorce andI think the divorce was
finalized in August or somethinglike that.
(10:13):
And I remember waking up on arandom Tuesday and I was like,
oh, I need more money.
So I went on LinkedIn because Iwas like I was about to be by
myself, like this is how you doa one person household, one
person income.
I was like, oh my God, so Itake my little impulse itself to
LinkedIn and I got a testingcontract.
(10:33):
I emailed the company.
They were looking for a testingpsychologist.
That was Tuesday, I think.
By the next Friday I wascontracted with them to do ADHD
and autism.
And that's just how it happened,but it was.
It was scary.
So out of my fear I said, okay,I need to do something else,
and so it worked out that Ineeded to add that branch to my
practice.
But, yeah, it was scary, and itsometimes is scary because you
(10:56):
don't know what.
You don't know whatentrepreneurship is going to
bring, especially in thiseconomy, in this society where
we are now.
It can be, it can be reallydifficult emotionally.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So me, I'm looking at you from the outside and I feel
like you know we have similarwork ethics.
You might go harder, I don'tknow, though, because you work,
you work, you work, and it seemslike it's sometimes work or
(11:27):
work slash.
Money can be like a copingresponse, like, oh, I'm feeling
a little nervous, scared, let meget some.
Let me see you come in, andthen you just go ahead and just
get a bag real quick, like isthat accurate?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's very accurate and I'm laughing because we just
are talking about this intherapy.
Oh, I just processed this withmy therapy last week in my
therapy and so what she said wasthat the more money is safety
to me, like, honestly, money issafety because of how I grew up.
I never want to do that.
So this ambition that peoplesee I don't think I've been shy
about saying it, I think I sayit every time I'm on a podcast
(11:57):
but this ambition that peoplesee and I don't think I've been
shy about saying it, I think Isay it every time I'm on a
podcast but this ambition thatpeople see, this overachiever,
it is for sure a trauma response.
So I happen, I'm successfulbecause of trauma and I'm
continuously trying to run awayfrom trauma.
But also it gets me in troublebecause the more I want to
create a life of freedom, themore I pigeonhole myself into
(12:20):
projects, into responsibilities.
So the life that I want to liveis one where I can randomly
take a break and take lunch,where I can go meet my friends
and go hang out.
I can't do that with back toback, back to back.
So what my therapist said wasthe more you chase money, the
less you're able to do thethings that you really want to
(12:40):
do.
So, yes, you've got money, butyou don't have the life that you
envisioned for yourself.
You don't have the ability tospontaneously go meet your
friend for lunch.
You don't have the spontaneityto be able to just say I'm just
going to take a day tripsomewhere.
You don't have that.
Everything is booked aroundyour life is booked around your
appointments and I was like youknow what?
You have a really good point.
So there's there needs to besome balance, and so that's what
(13:02):
I'm working on now and I thinkin some seasons I have more
balance than other seasons.
But as a single person nowhaving to pay for these, I tell
people all the time I got thesebig windows, having to pay for
these big windows.
Sometimes it can be reallyscary to be like OK, I got to do
this and I got to.
So a lot of my trauma responsearound money is that it doesn't
(13:24):
ever feel like enough.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Say that again.
You got to say that one moretime.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
One of my trauma responses around money is no
matter how much money I have, itnever feels like enough.
So I'm always like, well, Ineed more, and I need more and
and I can't really in the pastlike I'm recently kind of like
coming to terms with a lot oflike settling in as a single
person, doing this by myself andthat kind of thing.
Like you are okay, and one ofthe questions that I'm working
(13:53):
on is what's enough?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
so that's where I am in this season, like what's
enough yeah, and that's where Iam in this season Like what's
enough.
I can see how that, you knowcause, like again when we met
back in 2018 or 19,.
We both are making more thanwhat we did back then.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, but then sometimes you still like I need
some more, I need more.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Eggs are going up.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You said what.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Eggs are going up, tickets are going up, everything
.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And I going up tickets are going up everything
and I will say this because youlive in atlanta, I'm sure the
cost of living is way more thanit was in austin.
Like it.
It costs here.
And you know me, being a newdad, I can relate in the sense
where I'm always thinking like,okay, now I got not just a wife
but I got a daughter, so I'mlike I need some more like.
(14:40):
So that's kind of similar.
Like you're single, so you feellike I gotta get to the bag.
I have more people in thefamily, so I'm feeling the same
way just the pressure and andthe more inflation happens.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Economy changes.
It changes our field too, andthen we're competing too with
tech companies and we'recompeting with all of these
things.
So it is, they are real factorsat play.
And I don't have any kids, butI have two dogs that never grow
up and they always have to betaken care of.
You know what I mean.
So even if I wanted to travel,I already know I have to pay
(15:14):
somebody to take care of them.
Travel, I already know I haveto pay somebody to take care of
them.
So it's always an expense andthat's a lot too, and I think
these are the things peopledon't talk about openly a lot.
As entrepreneurs, it's likethere are a lot of expenses,
even if it's not overheadexpense because you work from
home.
There are a lot of things thatyou have to have in place to
live the life that you want tolive and it just is that.
(15:39):
But outside of that, the traumaof always chasing money.
That definitely requires somebalance and some work, and I'm
working on that now because itcould be really scary to kind of
like OK, so you want me toreally block off this day when I
can make this amount.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Right the whole day.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
The whole day.
Just not make any money today,Like no.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's so funny.
I think that's why we cool Letme.
I'm pulling up something I sawon Facebook yesterday and I want
to read it to you.
So would you rather have 10,000guaranteed each month for doing
nothing, or 100,000 a month,but you have to work 12 hours a
(16:20):
day, Monday through Friday.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
What's the first number?
10,000?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
10,000 a month doing nothing, or a hundred K, but you
work Monday through Friday 12hours.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
To be quite honest, I think I'm gonna go with the 10
hours a month doing nothingbecause that aligns more with my
values and I think the stickershock of a hundred thousand
dollars sounds great, but,honestly, 12 hours a day is
insanity.
Yeah, 12 hours a day doing thiswork is insanity, yeah, monday
through friday is insanity.
(16:53):
Maybe I found it um you saidwhat?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
maybe if I'm lifting boxes or something like?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
or if I'm speaking yeah, because I can run my mouth
all the time.
Yeah, I can speak, I canconsult.
But doing therapy, writingreports, writing notes, keeping
people out of crisis, managingyour own crisis I don't think I
can do that 12 hours a day,monday through Friday, because
(17:19):
Saturday and Sunday I'm playingcatch up you falling in line
with like 90.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I'll say there's like 40 people commented and uh like
35 of them maybe 37 said 10k amonth.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So because where do you enjoy anywhere else doing
that like doing nothing and andmy nothing like, if I don't have
to do this, work, cool.
But I can't also do nothing.
So I'm gonna be, I'm gonna havea hobby doing something, I'm
gonna be making something,creating something, creating
content about how I'm doingnothing like it's going to be
something.
(17:52):
Right, I can't just do nothing.
That's gonna run me insane.
But also the excess is notworth it either, because you get
sick.
You don't sleep.
12 hours a day for five days aweek is crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That sticker shot of 100K does sound good, but I
haven't worked 12 hours Mondaythrough Friday in a very long
time, especially at this agelike we over yeah, I'm gonna put
y'all, I know we over 40 43,I'm counting my planner.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I work 10 hour days doing testing on tuesday and
thursday okay, today andwednesday.
That runs me insane.
That's only 10 hours doingtesting and I might have a
meeting or two after that.
That is not sustainable,because there have been several
days when I've woken up I waslike how long am I going to do
this?
Is this sustainable?
(18:53):
It's not sustainable this way.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'm glad you kind of said that.
So let's talk about success andlike one I'm going to ask you
what does success mean to you?
And then how has that evolvedover time?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So there was a time when success meant money.
How much money do I have?
How does my house look?
Never cared about the kind ofcar I drive, because I'm not a
car person, but other peoplelook at what you drive and it's
like, oh, you're successful.
It never really mattered to me,but it was all about, like, how
my house looks.
Am I able to buy the thingsthat I want to buy?
(19:30):
Am I able to afford the thingsI want to afford?
So it's all centered aroundmoney.
Now I think success looks likehow much choice do I have?
And that's where I'm trying toget more to.
If I was to think about aspectrum, I'm moving more away
from the far ends of successbeing surrounded by money.
To more, I would say I'm more.
I'm more.
A little I'm closer to.
(19:53):
Success is how much freedom doI have?
How much choice do I have?
But I'm not completely there.
I'm still working on wrappingmy brain around.
Money isn't everything.
You know what I mean.
I'm just from a trauma aspect.
But now success is do I have achoice?
Can I go where I want to gowhen I go to a restaurant?
This is what success feels like, because we're both food Right
(20:15):
yeah.
It looks like can I have a drink?
Can right, yeah, it looks like.
Can I have a drink?
Can I buy an appetizer if Iwant to do I have an entree.
And can I get a dessert if Iwanted it and if I wanted to do
more, can I do that?
That's what success looks liketo me.
Can I eat what I want to eatwithout thinking about oh no, I
can't buy that?
Because that is also my trauma,because I remember growing up
we had to all.
We all would get a dollarwalker from burger king and then
(20:37):
we all had to share the friesbecause there was three of us.
Now can I have my own fries, myown drink?
Can I buy myself an extra drinkif I wanted it?
Can I go to this restaurant andsplurge?
That's what success feels liketo me.
And when I go on trips, can Ilive how I want to live on
vacation.
That feels successful.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
No, I'm glad you said that, like, can you go to the
restaurant, order the drink, theappetizer?
Cause I will never forget, Ihad just got out of grad school
and I went out on this date andI think it was like my first
real job, so it still wasn't alot.
And I took this girl out andshe ordered like the appetizer.
(21:15):
She ordered a soft drink, shehad a salad, she had the entree,
then she hit me with dessert.
I was like, are we goingbowling?
I was like we are done afterthis how much money do you think
I have Exactly?
I felt like she was just buyingstuff just because she knew I
(21:37):
was.
I was like like man, neveragain yeah, this is a hundred
dollars and I never forget that.
Like so I get what you'resaying, like now being able to
go out to eat and just be likeokay, yeah, I'm gonna get
whatever I want and I'm cool,I'm okay yeah, and that feels
good to me and it's like okay,this feels successful.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I'm not coming running back home like oh my god
, waking up depressed the nextday, like that doesn't feel.
That feels like okay, I havethe freedom and flexibility to
spend where I want to spend,because I'm not a bad girl.
Like I'll see, the bags thatI'm interested in now are black
designers and things like that.
Like I'm not a bad girl.
I'm not a car girl.
I'm not like I need the latestshoes or all that girl.
(22:20):
I am like functional when itcomes to wardrobe and things
like that.
Like I like nice things but itneeds to also be functional.
But where I want to splurge ison my food and my travel.
I want experiences.
So am I successful enough togive myself experiences?
That's what I want, andexperience doesn't have to cost
(22:42):
a lot of money.
But can I go to the botanicalgarden?
Can I go?
And when my friends come intown, can we go to the aquarium?
Can I treat them for theirbirthday?
Can I buy their meal or can Ihave something at my place, and
it feel comfortable for me.
Those are the things that Ilook forward to because they
(23:03):
align with my values aroundconnection and community and
that kind of thing, and sothat's what I want to be doing
with my time and my energy andmy money honestly.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Love it, love it, so I want to.
Before we wrap up, you got totalk about your baby, which is,
uh, my therapy cards.
Yeah, how did you come to thenlike, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
My therapy cards is definitely a baby that is just
continuing to grow.
I feel like I created them onebecause, again in 2019, I was
like how can I reach more peoplewithout needing to do
one-on-one work?
How can I be with people butit's not me?
You know what I mean.
(23:46):
Like how can people feel likethey're working with me but they
don't have to be working withme?
And so I was like I can doguides, I can do workshops here
and there, like on demand, andthen, literally, this is
honestly how my move to Atlantahappened too.
I literally was sitting down oneday somewhere and it was like
you can put it, you create a cardate.
And I was like, oh, itliterally just came to me.
(24:09):
Like that Moving to Atlantacame to me like that, too.
I was sitting at home and I waslike I was going to move to
Houston and someone said or youcan just move to Atlanta, it
literally downloads, just likethat.
And so when the cards cameabout, I was like, okay, it was
going to be a full relationshipcar date.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And then the pandemic happened and I was like, oh, I
have to pivot.
So all of this is full circle,right.
I was like, oh, I have to pivot.
People don't want to be toldduring a pandemic what they need
to eat.
Let's go ahead and release thetherapy card at first, rather
than the full relationship card.
So that's how that happened and, jason, thank you, you have
been focused with me on each oneof the card decks, but I
appreciate you so much for that.
But, yeah, yeah, that's howthey were born and they're doing
well.
What I'm learning in this seasonis that the cards do so much
(24:53):
better in person, so I'm havingto do a lot more in-person
venting.
They got a lot more conferencesBecause people want it as a
physical product.
Right, it was fine when we wereall in the house and it was
online, but people want to seehow things work, they want to
touch, they want to read, theywant to see, and so they do a
lot better in person, and so I'mhaving to just get out more
with that and do more brandawareness in that way.
(25:14):
But they're still doing reallywell and I'm so super grateful
and the cars work.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
like you know my clients they love when I'm
pulling out the deck and goingthrough them, because one I know
you know it's like it's greatinformation.
Like you really put it, eachpart of the cars.
Like you didn't just slap ittogether and this was before AI
was even a thing too Right.
So like you really did the workwork.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
So I need to put that as a marketing.
That's what I need to createsome content around it.
Like these cars were createdprior to AI.
Like you can go on AI now andjust get any questions right.
But these cards really camefrom people who are doing this
work myself and then people likeyou and other focus group
consultants like that were likeno, this is not a good question.
You need to work that this way.
You need to work it another way.
(26:00):
It really really was the workof the people who are in this
field.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, so, and you made a point too, like by
getting experts to to like vetthe cars and you listen to the
feedback.
You was that hard.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You know it's.
It's it kind of is because I'mwordy I don't know if y'all can
tell, but I talk a lot, but it'sI'm really wordy and so I want
to kind of put all the wordstogether in a sentence, but they
only have a little bit of space.
So I think the hardest part wasyou can't ask that like that.
You need to, you need to askthem in a different way and I'm
like but it's not getting acrossthe essence of what I want to
ask.
Right, but that was the hardestpart.
(26:38):
It wasn't hard to be told thatquestion doesn't make any sense,
no Cause I I came to terms along time ago that I don't know
everything and that there arepeople who do this work that ask
far better questions than I do,that ask them in a far
different way, and that I don'thave to know everything.
And it is not personal that Idon't know everything.
So no, that wasn't hard, it wasjust.
(26:58):
How do I shrink this down toget this across in the way that
I intend to get it across?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And I'll say this too , like in terms of AI versus,
you know, work with real people,like real people, come up with
even better questions, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, I think so too, even when I'm looking at the
way I summarize some notes,sometimes I'm like, yeah, I'm
gonna take that out and just putit the way I want to put it.
Yeah, that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
If somebody is listening, you want them to take
away a particular message ortheme from the work you're doing
and what you've learned overyour years.
What would that be?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Give yourself permission to change course.
Give yourself permission tocourse correct.
Pivot.
You don't have to have an ideaand be married to that.
This is some people feel somuch shame around like oh well,
I started out this way.
What do people think about meif I turn to start doing
something else?
Give yourself permission tounderstand that entrepreneurship
is all about figuring it outand give yourself permission to
(27:55):
not have it all together.
Nobody has it all together Likethese.
People are constantly trying tofigure it out all the time, and
the example that I use is likeDoritos even had chicken flavor
Doritos.
They're always testing things.
Give yourself permission to test, and it doesn't have to be
perfect.
I think that as small businessowners, as entrepreneurs, we
think we have to have things soperfectly put together.
(28:17):
Nobody does.
So give yourself a chance tofigure it out, to pivot and to
just be exploratory in thiswhole journey.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I got to say that you bringing up Doritos.
Do you remember when Cool Ranchcame out?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, when we were younger.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, that was a big deal, the Cool Ranch.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
That was a big deal.
It was like, oh, this isdifferent, and then it stuck.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And now they're more popular?
I think they're arguably morepopular than the regular ones.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, I think so too.
I think so too.
But they pivoted and theyallowed themselves.
You know?
Another good example Taco Bell.
Taco Bell's new slogan now isthe taco place.
That is also a chicken place,that is also a sandwich place,
that is also a burger place.
They know they have to changewith the time and so they're
(29:04):
like.
All their commercials now arelike Taco Bell.
Taco place is also a chickenplace, it's also a burger place.
So pivot.
They're changing with whatcustomers want, and if you don't
do that, you will phaseyourself out.
So be willing to change.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I love it.
Dr Ebony, where can people lookyou up online and your website?
Can you put all thatinformation?
I'll have it in the show notes,but just can you give a brief
on that?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram.
My handle is at Dr Ebony onlineand you can go to my website,
drebonycom, to see where I'mpracticing as far as therapy
licensed in over 40 plus states,and then mytherapycardsshop is
where you can learn more aboutthe therapy cards.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And I'll have it in the show notes too.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
All right, dr.
Ebony, I appreciate you.
Thank you, jason, I appreciateyou.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Thanks for tuning in to the Peace and Prosperity
Podcast.
If today's episode brought youclarity, encouragement or even a
moment of calm, share it withsomeone who needs to hear it too
.
Your support helps us keepthese conversations going.
And remember you don't have todo it all alone.
(30:14):
If you're navigating stress,burnout or just need a space to
reset, I'm here to support you.
Connect with me atjasonlphillipscom, or send me a
message on social mediaSintLPhillipscom.
Or send me a message on socialmedia.
Until next time, protect yourpeace, pursue your purpose and
keep showing up for you.
(30:35):
Be blessed you.
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