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August 4, 2025 82 mins

This one finds Jess in her natural habitat: fresh out the shower (FOTS) and in desperate need of alone time. Cozy and turbie twisted, she talks about projecting her need for personal connection onto her partner, and how she is approaching solo hobbies for pure enjoyment. After all, she can't derive everything from reality tv, though stay until the end of the episode for her thoughts on this season of Love Island UK.

Then Jess is joined by Gabi Lee (yes, THEE @tofugoob), a Chicago-based YouTuber, artist, and dancer who Jess had her eye on long before they became friends. Gabi has a refreshing and deeply needed perspective on all things creativity and fulfillment. After 3 years splitting her time between a career as an NBA dancer and a day job as an engineer, Gabi pivoted into art and YouTube, eventually quitting corporate to pursue her passions full-time. She lasted 6 months. Now, Gabi is leaning into the simplicity of a 9-5... a turn of events that Jess is particularly interested in.

This one is for all the high-achieving creative types that care too much what other people think and don't know how to chill. Sound familiar, boo fam?

Check out Magic Eight Studio for all of your branding, website, and small business glow-up needs.


~Where to find GABI~

https://www.tofugoob.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@tofugoob

https://www.patreon.com/tofugoob


~Credits/Links~

Edited by meee: ⁠@jzdebakey⁠

Podcasts: ⁠@peakingpodcast⁠ ⁠@not4everyonepod⁠

Logo/Brand Design: ⁠@magiceightstudio⁠

Photography: ⁠@thelocalnomads_⁠

Music: "Have Mercy On Us" by Air Kid

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Oh, when I was little, like I thought that by the time I was
this age I would have been like progressing in my career and
like making strides or like by this point in my side hustle,
I'd be like, Oh my gosh, I'd have like 200,000 subscribers
and I'd be making X number of dollars from it.
Like I'm not at that point with either thing.

(00:34):
Hi, Boo fam. Welcome back to another episode
of Peking. It's a podcast about the low
moments in life that are opportunities to grow.
And I would say season 3 that wehave just embarked on is really
about three things for me. It's about personal growth.
That's what it's always been about.
It's about entrepreneurship because every episode I'm having

(00:57):
someone who I admire on the showto talk to them about their
creative work or their business or their side hustle, their
passion project. I'm really interested in hearing
from people in my community about what made them start doing
what they're doing. That's like a non traditional
path as somebody who tries to dothat myself.

(01:19):
And 3rd, it's about comedy. I don't know, it's not your
traditional comedy. I'm not like cracking jokes and
I don't really have someone hereto bounce off of like I do on
Not for everyone, but I laugh atmy own jokes sometimes.
And also I ask that you don't take anything I say too
seriously. And that's kind of the vibe we

(01:40):
have going on here today. I am in my bed on a Saturday
night. I just washed my sheets.
My boyfriend is out of town. I'm in a robe and a turby twist
out of the shower. I used a shower bomb that
smelled like lavender and did a full shower.

(02:04):
You know, like got all the crevices and the hairs and stuff
like that. So I'm feeling excellent.
We all know this feeling. I'm sure the Boo fam knows this
feeling. Actually Ryan was asking me.
I took a body shower a couple days ago and he asked if a body
shower was like a me term or is it a term that women use that I

(02:28):
just don't know about it. And I was like, it is definitely
a term for the girlies. The girlies know about the body
shower. These intros to my peeking
episodes are really meant to be like my personal diary of how
I'm feeling lately. As a what do they call it?
It's not a solopreneur. I'm not a solopreneur.

(02:48):
My, my small business has a co-owner, a girl boss.
I guess I'll just say whatever, a person who has a side hustle.
I committed to tell you how I'm feeling about that every month.
I don't know. My feelings haven't changed
quite yet since last month. It's like not enough time.
It was my birthday month and it was busy and I had visitors

(03:13):
every single weekend almost and like plans every weekend.
And now I'm on the other side ofthat and it's kind of perfect.
I love being alone. Right now, I'm a solopreneur in
the sense that I'm alone in my bed recording this podcast, and
it feels really good. And yeah, I don't think I've had

(03:34):
a lot of reflections in the pastmonth because I really haven't
been alone enough to have reflections.
But August is primed for nothingness.
I have very few plans. I have no travel.
I have no one visiting. And listen, I love having
visitors, but, like, just gets to be a lot.
I've washed the sheets for our guest bedroom more times than

(03:58):
they've ever been washed becauseno one usually sleeps there.
Yeah. So how am I feeling?
I guess it's just hard to make content out of your life.
That's, like, not a new thought.I don't know.
I'm sure if you consume content from creators who just live a

(04:20):
normal life and then talk about it on their podcasts or their
YouTube channel or what have you, they have expressed a
similar lament. Lamentation.
What are the lamentation? Sounds too much like lactation.
Does it mean literally the same thing?
Limitation. The passionate expression of
grief or sorrow. Lament obviously is the verb

(04:43):
form, but can it also be a noun?Yes, a passionate expression of
grief or sorrow. Lament as a noun and lamentation
mean the same thing. So yeah, I don't think this is a
new lactation. See what I did there?
That's the comedy part I was talking about.
No, but it really can be hard. I find that the weeks and months

(05:05):
that Caroline and I are grindingout Not for everyone episodes.
And what I mean by that is just most of the year when we're
recording an episode a week or what's more extreme is when we
kind of like pack in a bunch of recordings into a shorter
stretch of time to pre record because somebody's going on

(05:27):
vacation or something like that.So I find when we're recording a
lot of episodes back-to-back, plus now adding peeking to the
list. And in July I did a solo episode
on Not for everyone. So I've had a lot of like time
as I am right now, just me and the laptop and the microphone

(05:48):
talking. And it is quite, it is quite an
interesting thing to put yourself through.
I mean, I enjoy podcasting because I enjoy connecting with
people through it, and I enjoy sharing my thoughts with people

(06:09):
who care to hear them, and I enjoy talking to new people and
learning from them. But I've noticed that in those
times when I'm like, banging outpodcast episodes, I am kind of a
shell of myself in my actual life.
I no longer have the capacity tohave that interesting
conversation with my boyfriend, or with my best friend or with

(06:29):
my sister or my mom. Like I feel like my conversation
bandwidth is decreased because I've given so much attention to
the conversations that I'm recording for other people to
listen to. And so it's like it's not only

(06:52):
having a conversation when we record a podcast, it's having a
conversation that is going out to a bunch of people where you
want to represent yourself well and you want to represent the
way that you think in an accurate way.
And you don't want to forget anything because people can
mince your words if you haven't like, clearly stated what you're

(07:13):
trying to say and considered allof the potential inputs and been
considerate of other people. But you don't want to be too
considerate of other people because you don't want your
opinion to get dampened by just like placating every person out
in the world. And so it becomes a really quite

(07:33):
intense and like focused exercise.
And I do find that it really drains me of my capacity to even
like have a phone call with a loved one or go to dinner and
like, have things to say. I think the antidote, like, I
don't think the answer is just like stop podcasting 'cause I
don't want to, but I also do want to be able to show up in my

(07:56):
life as fully as possible. And I guess you could challenge
it and be like, well, if this thing you're doing is draining
you and it's taking away from how you can show up in your
life, then like, wouldn't that be a pretty big red flag about
this thing? Maybe you should stop.
And that would be fair. And if I heard somebody else

(08:17):
saying that, that's probably theadvice I would give.
But I don't know. There's a lot of other
fulfillment that I get out of it.
So everything is a trade off. And that's just one of the cons
to a lot of pros. So if I'm saying like that's not
an option, then I think the onlyother option would be that I
need to be more intentional about my recharge time.

(08:39):
Like it's so funny because before Ryan left for his boys
trip this weekend, they're literally away for one night,
like an hour away from Chicago to do a fantasy football draft.
So this is not, I'm being dramatic like, Oh my God, he's
away. But no, I was feeling kind of
like, oh, we had such a busy month.

(09:00):
I've been working so much, I've been podcasting so much.
We've had a lot of guests and visitors in our house and I feel
like we haven't had like one-on-one quality time as much
as I would like. And to him, he's kind of like
really like we are together all the time and we hang out with
friends and hang out with familyand whatever.

(09:21):
And, and he kind of considers that quality time.
To me, I feel like I need it to be one-on-one focused attention
in order for it to be quality time.
The same way that I don't count like watching TV together as
quality time. But everybody has their
different relationship to that. And that was all fine and good,
but I was kind of getting sad about it and being like, yeah, I

(09:43):
just really want to put more intention.
Like when you get back from yourtrip to having our own time now
that we will have space to do itbecause we don't have like big
plans coming up. And that was all good.
And then he left. And then I was alone in the
house and my sister left. She was here visiting.
I dropped her off at the airport.

(10:03):
He was out and I got home and was alone and I was so giddy.
I was like giggling to myself, so happy to be alone.
And I think I don't give enough credit to the fact that I really
need that. And actually, I think a lot of

(10:25):
the times when I tell Ryan, likeI feel disconnected or I want
more one-on-one time with each other.
I wanna like, you know, have quality time with you.
I actually feel like a lot of the times, what I realize is
that those are the moments when I need time for myself.
So I think all of these things are pointing to like, Jessica,

(10:48):
you need to spend a little more time and intention on yourself.
If podcasting takes it out of you.
And if you're finding yourself like disconnected from your
loved ones and you think the answer would be like, spend more
time with me, Let's do something.
Let's go on a date. Let's let's have a phone call

(11:08):
with a friend, like whatever it is, but then you get a second to
be alone and you're like fuckingoverjoyed.
I would say that that's the thing you've been searching for,
girl. I would say that a lot of the
times when I'm feeling that way,it's just 'cause I need to
connect with myself to actually have alone time where I'm not

(11:29):
doing anything productive and I'm not even in the same room as
someone else. I never thought that that
mattered to me like. I always think I'm getting alone
time if Ryan and I are just, like, sitting next to each other
doing our own thing, like reading a book or on our
computers or whatever. And I feel like people in
relationships sometimes wear that as a badge of honor.

(11:51):
Like, oh, yeah. Like, I can get alone time when
I'm just sitting next to him. Like, I love being next to him.
He's my. He's my piece.
I get my alone time next to him,which, listen, it could be true.
And I have felt that way at times.
It's not like it's the complete opposite of alone time.
It's not like it drains me the way that a big weekend of social

(12:14):
events would. Obviously it's nice to be
coexisting and it is peaceful next to each other, But I just
feel like sometimes there's those couples that like kind of
brag that oh, we don't even needto be in separate rooms from
each other. Like we just, we just vibe so
well. And I'm not saying they're
lying, but I am saying it's a weird badge of honor to wear.

(12:35):
And I feel like we need to stop perpetuating the idea that
that's a standard we should be looking for.
Like, no, I like to be in a roomalone sometimes.
I like to be in the house alone sometimes.
I also love my partner and love being with him.
Like what's? What are we saying?
There's nothing like just being completely alone for a day in a

(12:56):
span of a month. This is the first time I've been
alone like this in a long time. And I think I'm just realizing
that that's what I've been needing and the reason that this
past month has been so has takena lot out of me and I don't
really have reflections. I guess here's the reflection
that was an epiphany that I had live something that I started to

(13:20):
do in the spring and I I kind offell off in the summer because
just things got busy. But I'm going to try to do it
again is I tried to look for artclasses around Chicago and sign
up for one a month and I did it for like 3 months in a row I
think. And art workshops, basically
like a 2 hour one time workshop for some art form.

(13:43):
That's what I was looking for because I realized that if I'd
signed up for like a pottery class, Ryan and I did a pottery
class last year, maybe that was like a wheel throwing ceramic
class. And it was cool to learn a new
thing. But it was like one day a week
for five weeks. And I feel like when I have to

(14:06):
return to something every week for a span of time, I feel like
I'm supposed to be getting better at it.
And then I'm really mad at myself when I don't cause like
wheel throwing is really hard. And it was my first time ever
doing it and I didn't really make anything well, which is
fine because the point of takingthe class was just for like

(14:28):
enjoyment. It's kind of meditative.
But because it was something I had to return to each week
because it was a five week class, I naturally like my
achievement oriented brain and like improvement oriented brain
was wired to think that that meant I needed to get better at

(14:48):
it. So my realization was I would
like to do more like stuff with my hands.
Meditative art classes go to things alone that are just like
restorative for me. And then I realized I actually
want to do a different art everysingle time.
So I went to like, oh, what was that called?

(15:10):
So I went to a Cyano type printing class, which is
basically actually I don't thinkI can explain that, just Google
it, CYANOTYPE. It was really cool.
I went to like a 2 hour session of that.
It was fun. It was a one time thing, great.
Then I did a acrylic painting class again.

(15:32):
One session showed up, did it, left for that one.
I actually didn't even pick up my art later.
I had to leave it at the studio to dry and I never went back
'cause it wasn't good. I wasn't gonna like do anything
with it. And I literally just went to
this class to do the art in those two hours and then like
peace out and never think about it again.

(15:54):
And I'm finding that that is my new approach to wanting to do
stuff just purely for the fun ofit is like just make it a one
time thing and never think aboutit again.
So as I sit here realizing that I need more alone time, I need
more downtime, I think I'm goingto return to this art class

(16:16):
quest that I was on in the spring and I wanted to share
that like a little quick tip if anybody else relates to that.
I do think finding one time art classes and not trying to like
get better at the same type of art is a hack.
My guest today is Gabby Lee. You might know her as Tofu Goob

(16:38):
on YouTube. Gabby is everything.
She's a super creative person. She's a YouTuber, she's an
artist, she's a podcaster, she'sa dancer, she's an engineer, and
she's just a cool gal. She lives in Chicago and I
actually started watching her YouTube videos before we knew
each other. I've discovered them just on my

(17:00):
YouTube homepage and started watching and just really related
to a lot of the stuff that she would talk about, about her
relationship between her corporate nine to five job and
her side projects and side hustles and passions on the
side. She did a lot of kind of live
exploration of what all of thosethings mean to her and how she

(17:22):
can live a life in which they all coexist on her YouTube
channel. So that's really where I found
her and kind of fell in love with her.
And then, I don't know, six months into me knowing about her
via YouTube, I got an Instagram follow from her and I talked
about it on Not For everyone because it was a huge deal to
me. I was like, wait, Tofu Goob.

(17:45):
I know that name. I watch her videos.
She just followed me. She must listen to the podcast
and IDMD her and just like gushed about the fact that I was
really fangirling. OK, that was a really big moment
for me. She was gracious enough to
fangirl back and we ended up becoming friends.
She's just a delight. I just always have the best

(18:06):
conversations with her. She's somebody who's reflected
so much on this thing that I'm always talking about, on peeking
of like, what does it mean to find value and fulfillment in
the work that we do and in the art that we do and in how other
people receive those things about us?
So we brought that very type of conversation that we have all

(18:29):
the time, one-on-one on to Peking today, and I'm really
excited for you to listen to Find Gabby.
You can go to the description. I'll put all of her links down
below, but she's at Tofu, Goob, TOFUGOOB on YouTube and on
Instagram. Hi, Gabby, how are you?

(18:57):
Hi Jess, I'm great. I just spent all day working
from home and watching The Secret Lives, the Mormon Wives.
So honestly, like I need this human interaction today.
No, now this whole podcast is about that.
We're not going to talk about anything else.
You should not have mentioned that to.
Me no I I shouldn't have startedwatching it because now I have a

(19:19):
problem. I couldn't make myself stop.
I was like I'll just do like 1 episode while I'm doing this
admin work. Nope.
'Cause you don't expect it to begood and then it's like the best
thing in the world. Are you on season one or two?
Like how far? I think I'm on season 1 and like
unfortunately I think I made it like 6 episodes in in one day.
No, that's not unfortunate. You are in such a safe space

(19:43):
right now. I'm holding you in this moment.
I'm seeing you. Sometimes you just need that.
Like I'm that's what I'm doing every Sunday.
I'm binging a reality show and if I don't have one to binge
then I'm very. Upset.
Yeah, I've been upset without trash TV for like a really long
time actually. I used to always have like a
show and I think it's been like 2 years since I've really

(20:05):
watched 1 so. Why?
Today was a thank you dude. I don't know.
Well, for a while I was just like, YouTube is my TV.
Yeah. And I stand by that.
But true, you just can't replaceit, you know?
No, there's room for both. I oscillate between reality TV
and YouTube. Sometimes I'll do it in the same
day. A little hit of my YouTube

(20:27):
people, you being one of them. A little hit of my reality TV.
Like, I feel like YouTube's beena bit dry lately, actually.
Actually. And maybe this is my time to
call you out and launch into ourepisode, which is that I know
that you haven't been posting. Is that what this is?

(20:47):
This is. Like I'm confusion, this is
actually just what do they call it?
Oh, an intervention. An intervention?
Oh my God, stop. If anyone could get me to post
again like maybe it's you. I believe that.
I believe that because when we got coffee, I don't know when
that was, but like a few months ago and we were talking about

(21:09):
dance and I was like, you shouldstart posting about your dance
stuff. Like I would actually love to
see that you started posting about it.
So I think that I'm, I did, I have a lot of power here.
I have a lot of sway. You influenced me because I've
been a fan of you for like a long time.
We've been fans of each other since before we knew each other.
I think we've been friends of each other so special.

(21:30):
I feel, I feel hot, I feel warm hearing you say those words to.
Me. That's crazy.
Me too. OK, maybe let's back up.
OK, Because you're a person who has a lot of different creative
talents. Like I see you As for sure a
creative person. And I know that the way that
that, well, OK, what I know is that the way that that got

(21:52):
started was really with your dance career.
But I'm kind of curious even before that, like, were you
always a creative person? Like when you were a kid, were
you reaching for artsy stuff or were you more on the technical
side? And maybe that's what informed
your corporate career? Like were you a math nerd?
Were you something in between? Where did your relationship to

(22:14):
being creative start? And what's your relationship to
that word maybe? Oh, OK.
Well, I would say that it started like when I was young,
ever since I was little, I always gravitated towards like
creative hobbies. I loved painting and drawing
when I was little. And then I think as I grew up, I

(22:35):
started gravitating towards dance as like my primary thing
outside of school. And then that became like really
my creative outlet. Like I was obsessed with dance
as a kid and I would like do some drawing and painting and
sewing or knitting, whatever I could like do to pass the time.

(22:58):
I would also do those things. But yeah, dance really like
started the obsession with like creative pursuits, I would say
for myself. And then, I don't know.
I also like I come from a household where like it was very
much like normal to get like really good grades.

(23:19):
So I was like, OK, I will do that as well.
And so I think I just was like trying to be high achieving and
like everything I did, includinglike creative things, including
school that all started from like a young age being very like
high achieving. I guess I started competing in

(23:40):
dance like in middle school. I think I started to tie like
creativity with like output and achievement and recognition and
like all of these things that docome along with creative work,
but like, aren't necessarily, you know, like the reason that
we do it. Yeah.

(24:00):
And I think even like now today,I'm like still trying to like
disentangle those things and getto the root of like, why I
actually like being creative because like when I was a three
or four year old, I don't think I was like, I'm going to make
this drawing so that everyone notices me and thinks I'm
amazing. Like, I think I just was pulled

(24:21):
to those things, as I think a lot of us are when we're like
really young. So that's been like kind of a
more recent thing I've been trying to like reconnect to.
Is that just like the joy and the expression that comes along
with creativity and all the reasons to do it, besides

(24:45):
recognition and validation and having output that other people
admire? I mean, I've been trying to do
the same. I didn't, I haven't like related
to the word creative until very recently.
Like I think because I was such a similarly like high achieving

(25:05):
kid, I was just in a household where that was the expectation.
And like grades in school was everything I tried to do well
at, everything that I could do well at.
And that included art class and singing and like the ways that I
was a creator and a performer. But because it was always
towards the end of like a grade or recognition or like people

(25:29):
liking me or my parents being proud of me, I never saw it as
being creative. I just saw it as like being high
achieving, I guess. And then like only in recent
years have I, I've always enviedpeople who are creative, like
obviously creative, like people who either their creation is

(25:54):
something artsy with their hands, which has never been my
thing, or their creation, their creativity is like something
that they're just doing purely for enjoyment.
Like I've envied both of those paths and relationships to
creativity because mine has beenperformance and it has been
like, the nature of performance is that like, other people have

(26:16):
to like it entertained. And so like I've envied like who
I've considered to be like true creatives for a really long
time. And I think only in the last
couple of years have I given myself permission to think of
myself as creative, because, yeah, I had to disentangle all

(26:38):
these things that you're talkingabout, basically.
Yeah, yeah, 'cause like if it istoo tied to the outcome, then
that's like all you're focused on.
Yes. You know, it's so hard to
actually like enjoy it or recognize what you're doing even
when you're just like, so focused on what's going to come

(26:59):
out of it. And for you, you very quickly
turned it into a career. Like you went into dance, you
were you were performing competitively when you were
younger and then you became a dancer as a professional, which
I'm sure is like extremely hard to do.
So that is such an accomplishment.
But it like immediately from whatever age, like early in your

(27:23):
20s made it so that this thing that's like your form of
expression and creativity is also the thing that you have to
show up to work and do, right. So I wonder what how that
affected your relationship to creativity and to dance.
And like all of this obviously sets up for your longer term

(27:43):
shifts in your career and stuff.Yeah, so like, like I said,
growing up I was like obsessed with dance.
I grew up at the peak. So you think You Can Dance time,
which in my opinion is like, I don't know, like 2009 to 2014
that was. Is that one?
There was the one dance that they did with, like, all I

(28:06):
remember is like a park bench and an umbrella.
Yeah. OK.
Park bench. Do you know what I'm talking
about? Bench, yeah, I think it was
like. I think I'm completing two
different videos, yeah. There's also definitely an
umbrella dance. There just had to be.
There was, it was like this tallwhite man and I was like, why is
he so swaggy? I like remember.
Him, there are so many icon, I'll never forgetting that.

(28:29):
But yeah, I was obsessed with that show and I like, I took a
lot of pride in like just working really hard.
Like I don't consider myself. There's some people that they
were just kind of developed in away where like you can tell they
were just like born to dance, like just kind of naturally it
happens. I was definitely someone where
like I had to work very hard at it and that became like a point

(28:53):
of pride for me. And I love the aspect of dance
where there's kind of like an endless opportunity for
improvement and learning. I think that's really, really
cool and not really excited me as a young dancer.
And so as I continued to like age and progress into different

(29:16):
dance teams and dance environments.
So at some point, it became likemy goal, my dream to dance in
the NBA. I graduated from college right
in 2020. So I didn't have an opportunity
to, like, audition for any teamsright away.
But then I'd set my eyes on auditioning.
And like, that was my thing throughout the whole pandemic.

(29:36):
I'd like be doing head springs and Kip UPS in my living room in
my first apartment in Chicago. And again, like, it was just all
about like, the work ethic and the drive and like, seeing
myself improve, getting myself to a point where I was, like,
confident to go out and audition.
So making the team was like a huge accomplishment for me.

(29:57):
It was something I had worked towards.
It felt like, not to be dramatic, but like my whole
life. It felt like whole life.
Yeah, yeah. It felt like that was like the
pinnacle of my dance career. And like, on paper, it
definitely is. Like I, I've kind of retired
from the thought of like auditioning for anything else,
but I think turning it into a career, it was kind of like my

(30:23):
first taste of like, OK, what they say about turning your
passion into a career is true. Like at some point I, I did, did
NBA dance for three years. And at some point, like I got to
the, the stage where I was like pretty much numb to like any
feeling of like joy around the actual movement.

(30:45):
And like, it just became a goingthrough the motions type of
thing. And that's how I knew it was
time for me to retire. With dance, like once I was like
in high school and college, one thing I really loved about it
was the like combined effort of all of these people coming
together and making such a satisfying end result.
Or even like dancing independently, like working,

(31:09):
like I would always like self choreograph my solos when I was
in high school. And I loved that process of like
picking out the music, figuring out what the the vibes are going
to be, the costume, like all of that creativity is so satisfying
to me. And then I think naturally, like
once I was in a different environment and it was a job.

(31:30):
You're a dancer in the NBA, likeyou're not really giving that
much input. Like you're being told like,
hey, there's this size box and like, please fit into it to the
best of your ability, which is, you know, that's just like what
it is. That's what it means to be like
hired as a a dancer or an entertainer.

(31:50):
Like you're going to have to fityourself into the role that they
want you to play. So I think that was like
definitely part of me kind of losing the the creative spark
with dance is like just simply the job didn't entail me needing
to be very creative and like here and there we got to, you
know, sprinkle our input or helpwith choreo, but it was pretty

(32:12):
limited. So I think that aspect of it
combined with just like the grind of doing that and then
working a job and like. Just.
The the. So you were doing another job at
the same time. Yeah, I when I started dancing
in the NBAI was full time at my engineering job, which is the

(32:34):
same job I have now. Wow.
Yeah, so I do. Realize that that dated back to
then. I thought maybe naively, I just
don't know anything about like NBA dance life.
But I thought that would have been the full time gig and then
that's it. I mean, I don't know.
Not that I think that they pay. Well, but like, you're doing

(32:54):
something you love for the game.Yeah, no, it, it was fully
minimum wage when I started and luckily things have been
improving. But yeah, like absolutely no way
was I going to be living in Chicago making that amount of
money. So everyone has to have a second
job. But it was a very tiring
lifestyle. And I don't think I really like

(33:17):
recognize that until I started to get to the point of like,
feeling a little burnt out from it, which is kind of why I
decided I'll just stop doing it,keep it a a cute three-year
career and move on. Yeah, I mean, that's still
significant. When you mention burnout, it
makes me think of like kind of my relationship to burnout is a

(33:41):
little bit different than how it's talked about.
I think obviously everybody has their limits when it comes to
like the time and energy that they can give to working.
So I understand that like anybody could burn out if
they're overworking. But at the same time, I feel

(34:02):
like the times I've burnt out are the times that I've been
working really hard and I'm not getting like satisfaction or
fulfillment from it. Like as opposed to times when
maybe I'm working just as hard, even harder, but I still feel
fulfilled by it, or I'm still finding joy or I'm still finding

(34:24):
purpose or whatever it is that my relationship to that thing is
like I could go really hard for a really long time and work long
hours and put my all into something.
If I like believe in it and it'sgiving something back to me.
As opposed to when you lose, that is when the burnout
happens. Like I, I think we, it ends up

(34:44):
getting oversimplified as just like working long hours.
And I'm like, I know a lot of people who work long hours,
including you now and me now, but I don't feel burnt out
because I'm doing stuff that like I'm getting something back
from. Yeah, yeah.
And it's like self motivated rather than like having to like
make yourself do something that I feel like has been such a,

(35:08):
like I've had so many phases over the last few years of like
between my NBA dance career and then like my creative work I've
done on the side of like feelingreally motivated just because I
simply want to do the thing. And like, if I'm working a lot
of hours, like I don't really feel that like exhaustion.

(35:30):
But then there's other times where like stuff doesn't seem as
exciting and I'm still making myself do it and it feels so
much harder. Like feels treacherous and like,
Oh my God, I can't go on. And.
I know trying to find I feel that.
The balance of things that'll prevent that feeling while also

(35:52):
like pursuing creative work outside of like a nine to five
is so challenging. Like it's so hard to find that
balance. I do think taking breaks is the
only way to be able to sustain that because anything is going
to feel, maybe anything is goingto feel like a chore at some
point. You know, even podcasting, as

(36:14):
much as it does fulfill me and Idon't feel, I don't feel like
it's work, but I, and I don't feel burnt out from it per SE,
but I do sometimes feel like it's a chore, like, oh, I have
to do that thing even though it's like I chose to do it and I
most of my brain thinks I want to do it.
But that's how like that. I think that's just the nature

(36:38):
of like having so many tasks on A to do list and just sometimes
it just feels just like that. It just feels like tasks Instead
of feeling like this is the thing that I love and I chose
and I want, you kind of have to actively remind yourself of
that. And I think taking breaks is,
for me, is like kind of the onlyway that I reinvigorate the part

(37:01):
of it that made me do it in the first place.
Yes, I feel like that is the thing I'm learning with this
break that I am currently takingbecause honestly, I haven't
really done this. I've taken little breaks from
dance before. I've taken little breaks.
Maybe I've taken little breaks from YouTube before.

(37:22):
I don't know. But this feels like the most
like major hiatus. I've given myself and I can
like, I'm on probably like month3 of this slower pace and I'm
like, oh, like I'm feeling myself getting excited about
projects again. And that part was like totally

(37:42):
missing for me before. So I am, I'm seeing it work.
Do I wish it had worked faster? Absolutely.
Because sometimes I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm just sitting around
doing nothing. Yeah.
But there. But you are doing something
because you're like brewing the ability to do it again.

(38:04):
I mean, I have to tell myself that all the time, 'cause I have
the same thing where like, I just feel so unproductive and
lazy and like selfish or something like guilty.
Like guilty. How dare you have like such a
cool mix of things that you get to do and such a comfortable
lifestyle and like all these things that I'm lucky to have

(38:26):
and yet you're tired and you need a break.
Like you fucking lame, lazy girl.
Like, that's like the way I'll talk to myself in those moments
and I have to remind myself after I've done it enough times
to like, learn the value of it. I have to remind myself, like,
no, this also has a purpose. Like this leads to the work,

(38:48):
this lens to the work. Like I'm kind of working by
taking a break because it will feed into the work that I do
later. I don't know.
Yeah, no, it's like it's so corny.
The whole like rest is productive, but like it is true.
Yeah, it is true. And like, I am in that stage
where, like, I've had to work through those feelings of just

(39:08):
being like, Oh my gosh, I'm all I all I do right now is like 9
to 5 and pay my bills and then, like, go hang out with friends
and go to dance class. Like, Oh my God, that's so lame
and, like, unproductive. And like, I also have this weird
guilt of, like, you, like, are lucky enough to be in a position

(39:30):
where people would watch things if you made them.
Yeah, but you're just not makingthem.
Like, how dare you? So I've had to also work through
those feelings of like, guilt ofjust simply existing.
But it is really nice. Oh yeah.
It is so nice. Well, it's also it's just so
funny that it's like you're so lazy.
You're just working your nine tofive job.

(39:51):
Like what are we even talking about?
That's that's a lot in and of itself if you're.
Relating to this conversation and you're an artist or creative
or small business owner with a side hustle that you're trying
to turn into something bigger, you should check out my friend
Julies company Magic 8. They're a small but mighty

(40:13):
creative studio that's based in Chicago and they've helped over
350 entrepreneurs build their brands and businesses from the
ground up, including mine. Julie was the first person I
went to when I decided that I wanted to do a rebrand of
Peeking and come back with Season 3.
And she and her team are responsible for the amazing

(40:33):
cover art that you see for the podcast today.
It's just such a creative team that is so powerful when it
comes to developing a brand for a business that maybe doesn't
even know what it is yet. You go to Magic 8 and they just
help make sense of all the things that are living in your
head and turn it into a beautiful brand and

(40:54):
visualization that, at least forme, I mean, I could not have
done alone. So whether you need help with
branding a website, just figuring out your next steps for
your business, you should go to Magic 8.
You can find them on Instagram at Magic 8 Studio.
That's fully spelled out, Magic EIGHT Studio one word.

(41:14):
And you can also find them online at Magic 8.
Again, the H is spelled out dot US.
I do wanna understand. So OK, you were dancing in the
NBA for three years. You were also working your
engineering day job that you still work at.
And then when you left, at what point did YouTube come into the

(41:36):
picture after the NBA? It's like all like a Venn
diagram where it all overlaps. So I, I think if I'm remembering
correctly, I started posting on YouTube like halfway through my
first NBA dance season. And that was like all about
illustration and art and like, Ikept everything very separate in

(41:59):
my life, OK, my little work situation, my 40 hour a week
work situation. And then I had NBA dance and
then I had my YouTube channel and they like, none of them
interacted, which I kind of liked.
Yeah, yeah. Then I, I started posting then

(42:19):
and then I don't know at what point I think I've been posting
on YouTube for like a year. Once I got to the point where
like I was actually like having an audience and making money
from it. And I saw a lot of other like
art vloggers, I guess you can call them a lot of other people
in like my same niche, I guess not having day jobs, just like

(42:43):
illustrating and making YouTube videos full time.
And I was like, that's what I want to do.
So that was kind of my goal as Iwas still dancing in the NBAI
think it was going into my thirdseason.
I had a discussion with my boss at my day job and I was like, I

(43:04):
can't do this anymore. I'm doing too much.
Because at this point I was likemaking videos for brand deals.
So then I had like time crunchesand then I had still the dancing
and then I was still trying to work 40 hours and I was like,
listen, I can't do this anymore.So I got to work 20 hour weeks.
I cut my engineering job in half, which is not something

(43:27):
that I knew I could do but was very much needed.
I don't think I would have like made it this far.
What if I hadn't done that? They've been so cool, flexible
with you in the best way and also that tells me that you're
value. You're a valuable employee.
Like you add value so they are willing to work with.
You I guess, I guess I don't know, just a little flex and

(43:48):
like, yeah, just I guess whatever it was, I'm very
grateful for that and that's howI existed for actually, OK, take
it back. The 20 hour week thing that
happened going into my second year.
So most of my, and I only did one year where I was dancing,
working full time and doing YouTube.

(44:08):
So then I existed like that for a year and going into my third
year of NBA dance, I after yearsof contemplation, was like, I'm
going to finally do it. I'm going to quit my job and do
this creative stuff full time. I'm going to be a full time

(44:30):
artist, which I applaud myself for even being that far because
I think like all of my conditioning in life told me to
not do that. Like I'm very risk averse and
quitting a stable job to do something very uncertain was
like so against like everything I had known.

(44:55):
It was very, very scary. I was like voice shaking on on
the Microsoft Teams call with myboss.
But yeah, I did that now that's like a year and a half ago.
Yeah, yeah, I think so 'cause that's right around the time
that I found you on YouTube and I started watching your YouTube

(45:16):
videos. I think you had just like, I
think one of the first videos ofyours that I had seen was you
talking about leaving your nine to five and like diving into
yeah, quitting and diving into the art stuff because and
YouTube, because that's also been something that I've

(45:36):
pictured as like the goal or thedream for myself.
And I like am just, I just need to hear other people talk about
it. Like I need to understand what
that even is and is it worth it?And like, what's it look like
and how do you do it? And that's.
So that's when I like came across you.

(45:56):
And now knowing you and having talked to you more about it,
like I think that your experience with that, with doing
that is so refreshing compared to a lot of the other stuff you
hear about. Like I feel like you just either
hear about people who stick it out and do both forever.
Like they're just maybe they're risk averse.

(46:18):
Maybe they just value the stability.
Like whatever the case may be, there's a lot of people who have
their full time job and do theirside hustle and they're really
happy doing both forever. And then there's people who like
the side hustle is going well enough and they're down for the
lack of stability and the risk and they dive head first into

(46:40):
that, you know, side thing full time.
But I feel like the fact that you took this time period where
you thought that's what you weredoing and like, tried it out and
then I'm spoiling spoiler alert,you went back to your spoiler
job. Like that was so original to
come across for me as somebody who like is thinking about which

(47:01):
of these paths would I wanna do myself.
So I just remember that being like the the draw for me at that
time. Yeah, I lasted 6 months.
I again I'm very risk averse. I had like saved up money for
like enough for me to live like 2 years without making any
money. Like I would have been OK but

(47:25):
mentally my fight or flight was like girl you're not OK.
Literally every day I was in a state of panic which is a great
thing to know about myself. And I don't know if you can
really know if you're a person like this until it happens.
But yeah, I overall was like very overwhelmed, stressed,

(47:50):
honestly from like the get go. Like I quit my job was feeling
good about it. And then like the Monday and
Tuesday of like first week of nowork came around and I was like,
Oh my God, I don't feel good. And like I, I can't really
explain it. Like I would, you know, I would
rationalize myself out of that mindset, I guess.

(48:12):
Like I would talk to myself and be like, girl, like it's OK.
Like you planned for this. Like, of course this is going to
feel more uncertain and unstable, but like you've been
doing this for a while, like everything will be fine.
But no matter what I told myself, I just did not feel OK.
And that started to impact my ability to be creative and like

(48:38):
connect with the reason that I started doing all this stuff in
the 1st place. And yeah, I, I pretty quickly, I
wish I could explain like why itdidn't feel like a good fit
ultimately. Like, I just don't think I have
the personality to handle that type of risk, at least right now

(48:59):
at this point in my life. And the benefits of, like,
having the additional time to work on creative stuff did not
outweigh the negative consequences that it was having
on my brain. So like, for years, I had
thought that time was the issue,you know, like, I just needed

(49:22):
more time. And then everything will fall
into place and I'll be like, this amazing, like, artist, and
all my dreams will come true. And then once I got there to the
point where I was like in the position to make that happen, I
just felt like I couldn't. And it was honestly really sad.
I laugh about it now, but it wassad.
Yeah, I, I almost forget I did this sometimes, but I took a

(49:47):
year off of my corporate job andthat's when I started this
podcast peeking like I did. Want to put energy into creative
pursuits, but I didn't think that like it was gonna fund my
life in the matter of a few months so or whatever.
Like I kind of knew I would go back.
I would probably unless something like unbelievable

(50:08):
happened, I would go back to corporate work.
I just needed a break. And it's surprising.
I feel like that time. It's all well documented on this
podcast, but like I was spiraling so much like I was, Oh
my gosh, the first couple monthsI think I was just like enjoying

(50:29):
freedom and hanging out with my friends and like decompressing
from the 10 years prior to that when I was just like on the
grind working. And then I started to do this
podcast and it's something I hadbeen dreaming about and planning
for for a long time. But the fact that it was the

(50:49):
only thing I had to do in my daymade it so that I like never did
it because I could do it whenever.
Like I was almost missing the structure that a nine to five
would have given me. Because if I'm, if, if I know
that 9 to 5 is blocked, then I have to carve out five to seven

(51:10):
for podcasting or whatever, or carve out time on the weekend.
And something about that, I guess like time blocking ability
that you have when there's like a known scheduled requirement.
I was really missing that. And with when I had all the time
in the world, I would just keep putting it off.

(51:32):
Like I'd be like, oh, I could dothe podcast stuff today, but I
guess I could do it tomorrow too.
Like I guess I could do it later.
And there was no one holding me accountable.
And it really, truly just reliedon like me wanting to do it and
how badly I wanted to do it, which I think I overestimated.
Like, I really wanted to do it when I was burning out at my

(51:53):
corporate job. All I could think about was
these dreams of like, let me go be a podcaster, right?
Escape plan. But then once that was right in
front of me, I mean, I did it, but I kind, it was like really
hard to do. And I felt suddenly like less
inspired about it and less motivated about it.

(52:15):
And I obviously ended up going back to corporate.
And now I'm doing both. And like our conversations have
challenged my thinking because when I went back to corporate at
that time and now I've been at my day job for three years and
I've been doing not for everyone.
In the back of my mind has always been like, OK, and there

(52:37):
will be a day again when I quit my corporate job and that time
it's for real. And I'm only doing this stuff.
And the longer I spend doing both and realizing how like
doable that is for me, I kind ofquestion like, maybe why do I
think I have to do this full time?

(52:58):
Like why can't is it OK for me to just do both forever?
And the fact that you're somebody who like landed there,
at least for now. I mean, whatever you're young
and there's like opportunity forthings to change over and over
again. But it's just different to hear
somebody be like, yeah, I tried that.
And I actually don't want it anymore because I think so many

(53:20):
people who are doing creative work on the side, like think
that that's their goal or think it's supposed to be.
Yes. And there's not enough examples
of like. It doesn't have to be.
You can sit. You're allowed to do something
in between. Yeah, you could be somewhere in
the middle. Yeah.
I think that like for me, I got very wrapped up in like the

(53:42):
dream that I saw portrayed. And like other people, this is
just their day-to-day life. This is just how they live.
But like I got caught up in the dream of being the full time
creative, like throwing caution to the wind.
And I think like now that I havea taste of it, I realized that

(54:04):
yes, that is like part of what it means to be a full time
creative. But there is also the
uncertainty. The what the heck do I do with
my taxes? What do I, where do I get my
health care from? There's all the other things
that come along with the full time artist or full time
creative package. And like it's so easy when

(54:28):
you're in the 9 to 5 corporate world to be like, oh, of course
I would rather have that. Like I get all the freedom that
I want. But I think once, once I
experienced it, I just realized like, oh, like I had this very
like glamorized grasses, greenerview of what this would be.
And yeah, I, I think that it makes sense that we don't see

(54:52):
these people that are like somewhere in the middle
portrayed a lot because it's, itdoesn't really, it's not like
something that you see advertised.
Like right now I'm only working like 32 hours a week at my
engineering job. So I'm like 80% full time,
whatever. But like, that's not what they
tell you that you can, yeah, have when you're like applying
for jobs. That's like not an option for a

(55:13):
lot of people or even with like doing something on the side.
I just, I feel like most people do it with this end goal in
mind. And I was the exact same way
because, yeah, we don't see a lot of people being like, yeah,
I kind of like have this mix of things that I do in my
professional and creative life and I enjoy the balance.

(55:36):
I feel like that's not what it'snot like what, I don't know,
society or social media kind of like puts up in our heads is
like the standard, yeah. Well, I think since we are
young, like we're told, it's like, what do you want to be
when you grow up? It's like there's a job, there's
one career, there's one job. Like there's one thing that you

(55:59):
do and it defines you. And I think no matter whether
you go a traditional route or you go a less traditional
riskier route, at the end of theday, like you're conditioned to
think like I have to go full force at that thing.
A. 100%, yeah. And like, who cares if it's not
all coming from one thing? And also who cares if like not

(56:20):
one thing is like super impressive, you know, like I
sometimes think about like, oh, when I was little, like I
thought that by the time I was this age, I would have been like
progressing in my career and like making strides or like,
yeah, by this point in my side hustle, like if I had asked
myself like 2 years, like where I saw myself now, I'd be like,

(56:42):
Oh my gosh, I'd have like 200,000 subscribers and I'd be
making X number of dollars from it.
Like I'm not at that point with either thing.
But like I'm kind of at a stage where I'm like, I'm OK with
both. And I don't really need, I'm
just realizing like I don't needto have that, that like high

(57:06):
achiever in me, like satisfied, like that's not really what I
need actually. That made me realize something
definitely about myself, which is like, I think that that I
think that how it looks and how it's perceived and how other
people respond to it or respect it or find it impressive or

(57:27):
whatever is totally a factor in me holding on to the idea that I
would go full time at the side hustle.
Yeah. I like, I don't think I've been
honest with myself about that, but I think that that's
definitely in there of like because we're in this society
where doing the one thing reallywell is what's valued.

(57:51):
I think that's why I've kept that in the back of my mind as
the goal. And it feels like if I don't hit
that, then am I not doing it successfully?
But it's just, it's just different.
Yeah. That really made something click
for me. Actually.
This is actually just my therapysession.
This is just you imparting wisdom on me.

(58:13):
No, but I feel like, I feel likeit goes both ways, 'cause I
there was a discussion that we had probably probably like the
last time we we met up, but we were kind of talking about that
concept of like, yeah, like not doing any one thing perfectly or
not not achieving that goal thatother people kind of like expect

(58:33):
that you're working towards. I feel like it's just kind of
like the default setting. Like as soon as you've got
something that you could monetize that's like that
you're, you're excited about. Like people assume that you're
trying to like make it big, likemake it a big thing, which is
like, I think people just encouraging you, which is like

(58:54):
awesome. But like, it's a little foreign
of a concept to just be like, well, maybe I'm OK with it being
at the stage it's at. Like maybe it doesn't need to
exponentially grow every single year.
Like maybe that's OK, but it's like such a foreign concept.
I know. Well, it is just so interesting
how much like, the cycle of people's opinion feeds into

(59:18):
this. And the fact is that, like,
like, then I have to take a stepback and be like, nobody cares
what you're doing, Jess. Like that part.
Yeah. Like nobody care and nobody
actually cares if you are doing both things or you're doing one
thing or like you being self-conscious a little bit or
having your own like self judgments about just working

(59:39):
your day job right now and not doing the other stuff.
Like nobody else cares. I mean, I want to see your
YouTube videos but besides that.Nobody.
Else cares and it is just this weird like punishment that we
put on ourselves of not being able to be OK with what the
current state is. And then when somebody asks you
like, oh, what's your plan with that?

(01:00:01):
Or encourages you like, oh, you could really make it big with
that. Honestly, they're just talking
and they're just trying to be nice and like positive.
Yeah. Like people are just talking.
They're like showing interests. They're just showing interest to
be like conversational, but we take it as like, oh, there's
pressure. They expect me to be doing that.
OK, I gotta I gotta make a choice.

(01:00:23):
I gotta decide. I gotta go full throttle at it.
I feel like that's a constant reminder that I tell myself is
like people are just talking. They're they actually don't
care. They're just asking a question
to be nice, to be polite. Yeah, it's.
Actually not that deep. I am the exact same way.
I that's been a huge like thing I've had to work on over the

(01:00:44):
past like year or so and like especially lately as I've been
like very inactive online is like getting over the fact
getting over myself. No one really cares.
Like people follow you online, that's cool.
People that like know you in real life that are, that have
interests in your hobbies or whatever, like that's also cool.
But yeah, truly no one cares as much as I do.

(01:01:07):
But what people do care about isif I'm making myself miserable
by getting wrapped up in other people caring about things and
putting too much pressure on myself.
Well, yeah, because then you're gonna show up as like a shell of
yourself and that is what affects other people and your
relationships and the people around you and like 100% just
how enjoyable you are to be withand all of that.
Totally. OK.

(01:01:29):
I do wanna just talk a little 'cause we've talked about dance
and YouTube, but I know you alsohave your art business and like
Patreon. Are you still doing those things
right now or they are they also on pause with along with the
YouTube stuff? And like how do you think about

(01:01:49):
how all of that fits together for you in the future or do you
just not know yet? Like all answers are fine, but I
just kind of, I want to make sure we mention those things so
that people know about them. And I also want to know like
what your relationship is to each of the many things you do
at this moment in time. Yeah.
You know, I think like at one point everything connected back

(01:02:13):
to like YouTube videos. Like I would just kind of
incorporate everything in that. And so everything did feel very
interconnected. And now that I've kind of taken
a step back, I've been like trying to kind of like approach
everything every like art form as like its own thing and just
like giving it its own little bit of attention and kind of
checking in. So in the art world, in my art

(01:02:36):
world that I think is one piece that I got, I wouldn't say that
I was like totally like disconnected to it in the past
like year or so. And like when I would take took
my pause from work, I still was doing illustration projects that
I thought was really exciting. But at some point I realized

(01:03:00):
over the past few months, like, OK, I think I am just a little
burnt not to use that word again, but a little burnt out
from what I'm doing art wise. I was doing with my Patreon.
I was doing like monthly art prints and stickers and that was
a great way to keep me accountable.
But it got to a point where I was like, you know, every month

(01:03:21):
I'm like, stressing out at the last minute trying to come up
with a design. And this isn't really why.
Like, I like making art to be, like, stressed over coming up
with something that people will like.
So I've put that on pause. My art shop has been closed
since February. Actually.
That was another, like, accidental break.

(01:03:42):
I was going on vacation for a week, and I was like, I'm going
to put it on on vacation mode. And then I just simply never
took it off. I love it so.
You're just quite. Intentional break everything.
No, literally, I'm quite quitting all the things that I
made-up for myself. But all the jobs you created
for. Literally all the jobs I created

(01:04:02):
I still, so I, I make a podcast on my Patreon and that's been
something I've been doing for a while now.
And I have that going still. And that is like literally the
only thing that I still have like an agreement for.
And I'm like, I'm going to push for that one thing to keep that
on on my docket. So I have some connection to

(01:04:24):
like all the things that I've built in the past.
But a nice side effect from thisbreak, I have been feeling
inspired to make art again. And that has been something that
I think I just started disconnecting from a lot.

(01:04:45):
Like, I was like, art is the waythat I connect to other people
on the Internet. It's the thing I make YouTube
videos about. So therefore I keep creating art
and I've started to like dabble back into it in the last few
weeks. And I don't know, I'm just like
trying to get back into viewing creative things as like

(01:05:06):
something I do for myself, whichhas been really hard because I
connected, I monetized everything, which perhaps made
things a little more complicated.
Perhaps, just perhaps perhaps lately I've just been like
doodling here and there, which has been challenging, but also
rewarding, challenging the sensethat like I took a break from

(01:05:28):
it. So I'm not as good as I used to
be, which is always felt like a hard thing to do when you're
coming back to something gettinglike finding that low and that
enjoyment again. But the more I'm like, keep at
it, the more I'm like, oh, like,This is why I like to do this.
Like it's very calming and it's like a meditation for me.

(01:05:49):
I can find myself drawing for like hours with nothing on in
the background and I'm like oh I'm just like sitting here in
silence with my thoughts. So foreign to me.
Rare. It's so cool.
Yeah, so after. I just opened the podcast
episode talking about how I justbinged reality TV all Oh yeah,
it's. Very.
Yeah. I actually needed you to remind

(01:06:10):
me of that, though, because I was like, oh, she's so like,
healed and meditative, but I needed to remember that you
watch Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, too.
We both watch it. Yeah, yeah.
So there's a duality to it all, but it has been nice to dabble
back into art and I have plans and I am making the moves to
reopen my shop, which is nice. Your.

(01:06:31):
Art is so cute. Your illustrations are so cute.
Yeah, like I make cute things, so I'm gonna take those baby
steps hopefully soon, but also like, whenever it happens.
But you don't have. To it happens.
Yeah, I mean, it's so funny, like the relationship between
making things and then monetizing and selling them,

(01:06:53):
just how much it changes everything.
And you mentioned earlier in theepisode, like once you started
to monetize your YouTube videos and get sponsors and stuff,
there's like A at that point, there's a deal like you have to
deliver this video on this deadline because the sponsor's
expecting it. Like I find that with Not for
everyone, it's new for me 'causethat's the first time I've been

(01:07:14):
able to monetize any of my content.
And we'll like want to take a week off.
And it's like, oh, we can't because there's an ad that week.
Like even little things like that, you just don't realize and
they slowly start to pile up andyou're like, why?
Why? But sure, yeah, I guess that's

(01:07:35):
cool. I don't know.
It's, it's very interesting. I have the tendency to monetize,
to try to monetize or like have the goal of monetizing
everything that I do. And recently I've been trying to
find hobbies that I won't do that with.
Like I've been going to art classes I.
Love this quest for you. Oh yes, this is my quest.

(01:07:55):
I think I've told you about this.
Like for me, it's going to the art classes.
For you, it's taking a break 'cause it's just like forcing
yourself to not do the stuff that you've tied up your value
in or that other people are expecting from you or the stuff
that is made for people to buy or people to react to.

(01:08:16):
You like, have to separate yourself from that 'cause I was
also thinking, you've mentioned a few times like keeping all
your stuff separate. Like you have dance and you have
art and you have work. And like, it sounds like the
thing that made them all kind ofcome together.
And for better or worse, you tell me, is YouTube.
Because on YouTube you could show whatever you want and

(01:08:41):
obviously you started it out like focused on your art.
And so those they started to commingle.
And then when you left your job for a little bit like YouTube
and that started to commingle because now you're talking to
your subscribers about the fact that you had this job and you
decided to leave it and like 100%.

(01:09:04):
And then I encouraged you to show your dance stuff, dance
videos and talk about your relationship to dance on
YouTube. And that starts to commingle it.
Anyway, I guess I'm something's clicking for me where like, it
sounds like the times that you've been most content or
feeling the most balanced about all the things that you do is

(01:09:26):
when they, like, live in their separate homes.
And you can like, pop into that one and then pop out of it.
Pop into that one and then pop out of it.
But that becomes really difficult.
Yeah. When you're a YouTube or a
podcaster or like somebody who'sjust talking about your life
because you start to like all the things start to commingle.
Yeah, yeah. And I think too, like once I

(01:09:47):
started monetizing all of those things, you don't get the option
to like. Pop in and pop.
Out. Take a break whenever you feel
like it. Yeah.
And I think I do like that freedom.
This is a see that now things are clicking for me.
I'm like, wait. I had to give you something back
I'd be honest with. Something with that.
Yeah, I had to give you a littletherapy back.
I couldn't let you leave without.

(01:10:07):
It you are with my just therapy.No, I think that is like so, so
much of a part of it. Like, I don't know, I think back
to like when I feel the most like creatively free.
And it's usually when like I hadno plan to create something and
I just, I'm like, I'm gonna do that.

(01:10:27):
It's so funny how capitalist society like forces us to work
and have stability and make a paycheck and like, you know, all
these, all these things that we have to do to exist in this
world. And yet at the same time, it has
the audacity to throw little phrases, phrases at us that are
like, pursue your passion. You won't work a day in your

(01:10:48):
life if you're doing what you love.
Like, it's like, which one is itcapitalism?
Like I don't believe you. You're lying to me.
No, they, they want to sell the dream.
Yeah. And they are lying.
That's a thing I like, I went through a whole after I quit my
job and then realized what it was like.
I thought back to like all of the aspirational content I'd

(01:11:10):
been feeding my brain to, like, work up the courage to actually
quit my job. And I don't know.
I just kind of realized like, oh, like they were just kind of
like selling me a dream. And like none of none of those
people or the people that created that content were like
there to like walk me along whatit would actually look like to
actually do it. I think we underestimate

(01:11:32):
sometimes just how hard it is tojust simply exist and do like
the human things to take care ofourselves and our people.
And then we put all this additional pressure on ourselves
to like, not only do that and exist and take care of ourselves
and our people, but also, yeah, do something you love.

(01:11:52):
Don't waste your don't waste your time at a corporate job.
For me, a huge thing has been like, I want to have more
friends and I want to have valuable friendships, but like
when I'm spending every waking moment trying to accomplish
something, it's hard to make time for that.
I in the past had friends that were like also these like high

(01:12:14):
achieving a lot of like influencer type hot successful
dancer type people and becoming friends with like more people
from different walks of life hasreminded me like, Oh yes, not
everyone lives this way and always expects themselves to be
doing so much. Like that is something that I

(01:12:37):
can step outside of too. It's possible.
There's hope. Just like touch grass and touch
and touch people who touch grass.
I think that's where we call it.I think that's what we've
learned. No one cares.
Nothing. Matters you're in your head.
You need to stop. Take a break.

(01:12:58):
It's not that the watch reality TV.
Just stop. Just stop.
Just literally stop. OK, where can people find you if
and when you want to be in theseplaces again?
Just give them the rundown. I'll put I'll put it in the
episode description too. Yeah, I am tofu goob on
Instagram. I think I have a tick tock too.

(01:13:18):
It's probably growing cobwebs atthis point.
And then my YouTube is just Gabby Lee.
I changed it. It was like a big rebrand moment
for me. Whoa.
Yeah, I was like, I'm feeling sodifferent now and then I like
haven't posted in months. So like, I don't know what the
point of that was, but. OK.
Yeah, and then my art shop will be open at some point in the

(01:13:39):
future tofugube.com. OK, well everyone will favorite
it and just wait and they'll check.
Mark it. They'll check the URL
periodically. No, I'll post about it on.
I'll post about it whenever it comes back on the peeking
Instagram. I appreciate it so much, it was
so fun. Thank you, Jess.

(01:14:04):
It's time for my reality rant. At the end of every episode I
leave 510 minutes to rant about the reality TV that I'm
watching. Honestly today I spent most of
my day binging Perfect Match on Netflix the 1st 6 episodes.
But I'm not going to talk about that because I don't know how
much I have to say yet. Maybe I'll talk about it when
the season is done. But I am watching that.

(01:14:25):
And if you're watching it too then you should maybe DM me or
something about it at Jay-Z Debakey or at Peking podcast on
Instagram. What I'm really?
Thinking I'll talk about is LoveIsland UK, my last episode I
covered US. Now the season in the UK is
nearing an end. I think probably in the next

(01:14:46):
week or so the finale will happen.
It's obviously going to be either Tony and Cash or Shakira
and Harry. I am a Tony and Cash Stan.
Obviously Tony messed up. I think that's been beaten into
the ground. The fact that Tony messed up at
earlier in the season when she was like chasing Harrison all

(01:15:07):
around, which I did not understand the appeal of that
man. But nonetheless, she left Cash
standing on his own and we saw him cry like a real man does.
That was the most attractive. That was maybe my favorite scene
I've seen on reality television ever.

(01:15:27):
Cash crying and Ty comforting him and just saying exactly the
right things. Ty is pretty boring in terms of
like television, but he seems like a really nice guy and a
really good friend, like a really good guy friend to other
guys. So anyway, that was a great

(01:15:48):
scene and obviously since then Ihave loved Cash.
I think he's just a gem of a manand deserves only the best
things in this life. And he seems to really like
Tony. So it doesn't.
Really matter how I feel about her, even though I also do kind
of like her and I kind of sometimes think that I hear her

(01:16:10):
voice in my voice, like maybe wetalk similarly.
Anyway, that's neither here nor there.
I just kind of felt like while Iwas talking about Tony, I
sounded like Tony. It doesn't really matter how I
feel about her. I think she's fine.
I don't hate her. I understand why some people
might hate her. I'm kind of neutral on her.

(01:16:30):
I also understand why some people might love her.
Anyway, none of it really matters because I feel like Cash
loves her. I genuinely do.
And I think he's such a sweet guy and he should have the woman
that he loves. And so if it's her, then I'm
rooting for it. So they're my winners.
I think that Harry and Shakira are so lame.
I don't think it's fake, like I do think they have a genuine

(01:16:53):
connection but I just find both of them very annoying.
I know. I think Shakira's a fan
favorite. I don't know, I don't.
Again, I don't hate her and I understand the likable things
about her. But I do think she's very young.
Like not even it doesn't really matter what her age is.
Although she is 22, so she is young, but I think she acts

(01:17:16):
young. For as mature and emotionally
intelligent as we've sometimes seen her, I also equally think
we've seen her be very immature and kind of naive in the way
that she moves. And I think that a lot of the
women who have been into Harry, her and Helena want to believe
that they're like the woman thatcould change him.

(01:17:38):
And as much as Helena was kind of annoying, and she definitely
was making herself a mug, at thesame time, I kind of respected
that. The way she dealt with Harry was
like, I'm not going to change him.
I'm not going to tell him what to do.
Like, you know, he's going to behimself and he's going to do
what he wants. I guess the thing that I would
have liked to see is for her to just walk away from that.

(01:17:59):
But I kind of respect that approach as opposed to the
approach that Shakira is taking.That seems to be the approach
Harry likes. But it's like that whole thing
of, oh, she's the type of woman that he would actually take
seriously or he would change forlike, I don't like that.
Why are we normalizing that? That is what this guy thinks he

(01:18:20):
deserves. Why are we normalizing that?
His whole thing is like, oh, I want the woman that's going to
be worth me respecting for once.Why are we making that?
OK? So I just really don't like the
whole thing. They do seem to have a
connection, like they probably will.
They for sure are making it to the finals and maybe they'll

(01:18:40):
even win and maybe they'll even go on to have a long
relationship. But I really don't like the
coddling of a man who acts that way.
And I especially don't like it between him, a 30 year old, and
her, a 22 year old. And it's just something about it

(01:19:01):
is icking me out. OK?
I'm getting the ick from most people this season.
Like I've had the ick. It's funny because the first
couple days I thought Dejon was going to be my favorite guy.
Very quickly got the ick from him and how he and Meg have
moved. Even though I think Meg is
genuine, I think she's not the brightest and kind of gullible.

(01:19:22):
And I can't tell if Dejon is just leading her on or like
exactly what it is. I think he does feel something
for her but I also think he wants to win this show.
Either way they give me the ick.I was a big Connor fan.
I like him and Megan together. I was shocked when Megan was

(01:19:43):
dumped. At the beginning I did not
understand why people by why thepublic didn't like her.
Maybe I'm forgetting something that happened but I feel like it
was too early to be upset with her for wanting to explore
outside of that mama's boy guy like it was week 1 if she wants
to talk to someone else, especially Connor who's so cute

(01:20:04):
I think he's the cutest and nicest boy.
Anyway, I just didn't really seethe problem with that.
I also feel like they've tried to make it out like Connor was
moving mad and like going from girl to girl to girl, but he was
single the whole time. He I don't think he was leading
anyone on to think like, oh, I want to be closed off with you

(01:20:24):
or I have strong feelings with you.
I think he genuinely, what he said was true, that he was
looking for the feeling that he felt with Megan, and he didn't
find it. I do think he really liked
Shakira, and I think he was genuine about that.
And if Shakira wanted to be withhim, he would have stuck with
it. But she didn't want to be with
him, and he wasn't gonna, like, beg her and ruin their

(01:20:45):
friendship. And I thought he handled that
whole thing really well. He's my favorite.
Yeah. I think that's the gist of it.
There's others, you know, there's Yasmin.
She. Her posture freaks me out.
Her guy is cute, but like, they're kind of boring to me.
Yeah, I'm probably missing people, but that's, that's what
I got for today. That's my take on Love Island

(01:21:07):
UK. I'm putting my money on Cash and
Tony to win. I'm hoping.
But if anybody's going to come out of the gate and steal it
from them, it will be Harry and Shakira.
And you will hear from me about it on Instagram because I'll be
mad. OK, that's all folks.
Thanks for joining for another episode of PEEKING.

(01:21:29):
I'm doing these once a month, onthe first Monday of every month,
so I will see you the first Monday of September.
I'll have a new guest. I'll have new thoughts on
reality TV. I'll have new reflections on my
life. Or I won't, but hopefully you'll
be here anyway. I appreciate you.
Credits are in the description. Check out all the people who've

(01:21:50):
helped make this possible, all of the links for me, for my
guest. Until next time.
FOTS fresh out the shower. FOTS.
I have a friend who used to say that, so I'm FOTS.
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