In this podcast, we speak to Anna Styles and Caroline Jarvis from West Lothian College. The conversation focusses around how the college has embraced Outdoor Learning, both in the curriculum area of Childhood Practice and Early Education as well as more broadly across the college. Anna and Caroline share information about the work, focussing on where the initial idea came from, how it was brought to life, how the rest of the college have embraced this and most importantly, the impact that his has had on students and staff. This was a great insight into some of the great work going on in one of our colleges.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hello and welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of the podcast is to bring to
the fore some key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss the breakdown aspects
of practice and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to
integrate these into our daily practice.
Today I'm delighted to be joined
by Anna Styles and Caroline Jarvis
from West Lothian College, Anat.
(00:29):
Caroline, how are you? Hi.
Hi, Johnny. Good, thanks. Thanks.
And by the way, hi, I'm Caroline.
And yeah, I'm good Twitter as well.
Thank you.
Different podcast,
hold on previous whereby we've got
two guests, so we'll be kind of vying,
vying to talk and yeah,
so we'll be a bit interesting there.
But today we're going to look at
outdoor learning and the specialist
(00:49):
pedagogy of the outdoor classroom.
And obviously this is a project
that's been going on the West Lothian.
So,
and I think you're going to kick us
off by telling us a bit about what this is.
OK, um, so in,
in terms of our outdoor learning
over the last couple of years we've
really developed our outdoor learning
pedagogy um and this really came about,
(01:09):
uh through our self evaluation process
and in dialogue and conversations with
our partners in the local authority,
we worked really closely with
our partners and uh,
they had approached us and asked
us specifically what we were
doing to ensure that.
Practitioners were skilled and
(01:29):
understood the pedagogy behind
outdoor learning before they
transitioned into both placement and
ultimately to becoming practitioners.
So really the journey began with
us uh identifying as a team the
the most appropriate site to locate
a forest classroom on our campus.
(01:50):
And we are quite fortunate in
that we do have quite extensive
grounds around the campus.
So we agreed on an area that we could
develop that you know has some trees,
lots of ground,
there was lots of potential that we could
see there and it started off really by.
(02:10):
Engaging with students across the
college and we asked our uniformed
public services to assist and
volunteered and clearing some
of the land around the campus.
We also engaged with our facility staff
who really did a fantastic job in
supporting the early development of the area.
Um building a fire pit,
(02:33):
putting fences around and shooting
the site was secure.
Um building some mud kitchen and lots of out.
External out lots of resources
to allow us to have then uh,
encouraged children to come on to site,
um.
So that's really where it started
and how it's developed from kind
(02:54):
of the the early days which is
about two years ago now.
Yeah,
that's our first question in terms of
sort it's been in place for two years.
What we write this humans evolved
over that time as well in terms of its
grown or have been added to that as well.
It's definitely evolved since the initial.
So since that initial point
where we identified the land,
(03:14):
um the staff within childhood
practice then obviously upskilled
to make sure that we were able to
deliver a sort of like outdoor
learning pedagogy and or practice.
And so that made ourselves going
on a couple of courses and to
try and give us those skills.
But at the same time the Forestry
Commission is that right Anna is that
(03:36):
who fell under developed in Level 7.
And uh unit in terms of forest kindergarten,
Umm with uh in conjunction
with Juliet Robertson,
who is like basically the educational
specialist in outdoor learning.
And we were fortunate to have
be awarded 5 spaces on the very
first training course for that.
Which then which then meant that we
(03:57):
were in a position where um after
sort of like the like you know,
towards the early part of when
we had the site,
we could then develop an actual
unit to be delivered to the HNC
cohort and which was basically.
The first point of actually embedding uh,
outdoor learning pedagogy within
an actual um, like you know,
(04:19):
course framework.
So that was delivered into our
whole HNC cohort that year,
which equated to about 100
students that went through it,
um and basically um.
The feedback that we got from that
from the students was that it was
really well received and particularly
when they went on out to practice
it gave them the opportunity
to sort of embed those skills.
(04:39):
As a practitioner,
and it was fully desirable by the
local authority where most of them
would then go on and get jobs.
And as a result of that success
over like that year and also the
coming years up to where we are now,
we've then taken that,
um,
outdoor learning and embedded it
from level 4 right the way up to level 8.
So basically all levels of students were it,
(05:01):
regardless of the course or the
entry level within childhood practice
will have some form of experience
of outdoor learning within our.
What is classroom or the
surrounding college areas?
So that we instill that sort of like,
you know,
pedagogy of the benefits of outdoor
learning for children from the very,
very start.
So it's a progression so that what
they learn in Level 4 is then
(05:22):
built upon in level 5, level 6.
And then when they get to each
NPC's to do the formal SQA unit,
which is the only unit so far
in Scotland that is actually a
recognizable unit qualification
that you can get certificated for.
Um.
So we've developed like, you know,
non SQA units as a result of that.
No, that sounds fantastic.
And there's so many questions
(05:42):
there I kind of want to unpick.
And I guess the first one is,
you've talked about you've used that
across multiple levels of courses,
which is great.
So I guess.
Within that,
what benefits have you
noticed then from your
level 4 when I was up to level 8
in terms of them engaging within
obviously the outdoor learning outdoor
classroom throughout their programs.
So particularly with the lower levels in
(06:03):
in relation to light level 4 and level 5.
This is the first year that we're fully
sort of embedded that within their courses.
And I would have to say that the
feedback because obviously I am sort
of supporting those levels within
that with other colleagues and that
are also delivered in these units
is that they like the practical.
Element and the fact is that like
when they go out and do activities
(06:24):
within the forest classroom,
whether that be like bushcraft
literacy and numeracy,
whatever it is,
then building whatever the focus is
of that week session is that they
tend to be calmer and they approve.
They don't feel like they're at college
because although we're on the college campus,
you do feel like a bit taken away from that.
And so they basically forget about
(06:45):
the fact that they're college and
they're just focused on their learning,
but they also,
and particularly if they had
their stressful day.
Before they've come to college,
they all do say that it relaxes
them even though they're learning.
But when they go to actually then
write up their sessions or to use
that within a like assessment format,
they're much able to relate that
much more because of the practical
(07:05):
experience that they've had.
Yeah,
really interesting because I know
one of the first episodes we did as
part of podcast looked at retrieval
practice and just different ways
of evading learners to store memory
and information, sorry,
information in their memory.
And that's a prime example there.
You know,
I've kind of learners engaging
with some invocation.
Relevant and then aiding their
understanding their articulation of that
learning and content and we'll transfer,
(07:27):
you know, so that's really interesting.
And myself and Caroline were talking,
um,
pretty recording around the the unique
vocational element that students
can typically receive in a college
compared to studying with other providers.
And this is a prime example of that
because guess what you're trying to
do is prepare learners for their next
steps and to kind of for the workforce.
And would it be right to assume
that a lot of a lot of schools,
(07:48):
a lot of destinations that students
would be progressing into?
Will be doing more forest type activities
compared or more outdoor learning
type activities compared to 5-6 years ago?
Is that fair to see there as well?
I think that's absolutely fair to say and
particularly as a result of the pandemic,
you know that that's really kind
of changed everybody's expectation
(08:09):
in terms of classroom.
So although it had been um,
more common for early years to be you know,
outside and that was kind of the
norm certainly for primary schools.
There's definitely a shift in
the dynamic of you know indoor,
outdoor and I think the beauty
of of our kind of setup is that.
(08:30):
Obviously pre COVID um we
had uh children on campus,
so all the way from from nursery
children on campus up to primary 7
and indeed um some third year boys.
One of the projects we were we were
running was with third year boys.
So that allows our students to
have that practical experience in
(08:51):
a safe environment so they develop
their skills and interaction,
their communication with children
and young people before they're
then exposed to the.
The the placement and also having then to,
um, work and understand and
manage the dynamics of a team.
So it really is a supportive environment
for them to develop those early skills
(09:13):
where they feel safe and supported.
Yeah.
And also in addition to that,
I think as well with the students,
particularly the younger students,
not a lot of them have had outdoor
learning experience themselves.
They're not used to being outside
playing like as children because
we're sort of like moved to that
sort of risk of their society where.
They can all letting children just go
out and play on the streets like what
(09:34):
I would have done when I was younger.
It just doesn't happen.
So actually allowing and have another
uh children from local settings
coming into work with the students.
It's about like changing that and
challenging that mindset of being
risk averse to being much more about
risk benefits and to outdoor learning
and and giving them those skills that
they'll need to as they progress on.
(09:55):
Yeah I think that's a really key
bit for me in terms of you know the
skills development and progression
pushing students out of their
comfort zone and I guess that's.
Has just become a routine and a norm
for them as part of their program.
You know again from my own
criticism in the past week,
when you put students in this situation,
they often know as sorry as a one off.
They often know to false situation
where it's actually this is a routine,
it's an expectation and against
what preparing them for the sector,
(10:16):
which is ultimately what we're trying to do.
You know,
we're standards expectations and when
you draw in um experience of working
with younger people from primary
schools and so on and so forth,
that makes it more real for them as well,
you know, and challenging.
The students have developed their
skills in that different context
where they can't necessarily
mess around with the mate.
They've got to have um,
(10:36):
I'm going to say workers mentality you know
which I think is really important there.
And just touching back we said
Anna before I'm kind of kind
of across college initiative,
across college engagement.
Has that progressed further than as well?
I've said no code would have
impacted on this,
but in terms of this type of activity
or project based learning or elements,
um does that work more broadly across the
college then as well from your experience?
(10:58):
Yes, uh, definitely.
We've had opportunities to work more closely
with our colleagues in construction.
So it's given them an opportunity to
actually we became their customer.
So we had a group of uh construction
uh students who worked with one of
our lecturers to she became their
(11:19):
customer and set them a brief.
So they've uh provided and and built um.
Equipment for the forest.
So you know, they've just finished
constructing like a a storytelling area.
They've developed another mud kitchen
for us and they have lots of ideas and
plans for future developments for that.
(11:40):
But there's possibilities for right
across the college, you know,
for lots of opportunities to to develop um
relationships and also external partnerships.
We've got a number of
external partnerships now.
Uh, I really uh keen focuses.
In terms of sustainability
and for us across the college,
(12:01):
we're looking at rewilding the campus.
So we're in talks with The Woodlands
Trust and the conservation volunteers and
it's about developing those relationships
and ensuring that our students have
an understanding of sustainability,
the natural environment,
the world and their place within it.
No, I think that's really interesting.
(12:22):
I know when we talked
prior to again recording,
we've talked around as many transferable
here not just for for childcare,
earlier script and Maria you know
across the piece of other listeners
listen this episode in terms of that
cross college work and in terms of
work with local authorities working
with industry um preparing students
for their industry.
We'll talk about national
initiatives before as well.
We're trying to get more meals into
(12:44):
early years and and also working with
local schools and a partnership you
know so there's many different ways.
And from working in the sector
in the past in England,
some people would would be quite cynical
and saying you do want to tick boxes,
absolutely not.
This is done for the benefit of our students,
to help them be exposed to the real world,
to help them develop and progress into
(13:05):
whatever their intended destination is.
And I'm I'm keynote where this
idea come from initially.
So kind of how does how did this come about?
Was it just a uh looking out the window
one day and see a bit of land thing?
Great. Let's go there.
Was this a need from the local authority?
Where did this come from?
Well,
initially it was definitely a conversation
with the the local authority.
(13:25):
But um,
at the same point we had uh applied
for some funding from um the fund
Scottish Funding Council to run a a
pilot project to encourage uh young
men into careers in early years.
And we thought that these two
running alongside one another might
be an opportunity.
(13:46):
We're not in any way saying,
you know, like um.
Men would you know should
be sort of kind of um
encouraged down their line of outdoor
education and and and early years.
But what we did find is as part
of the project was that um.
(14:06):
It was really to find out about their
career aspirations and where their ideas
off their career pathways had been formed.
And the interesting, you know,
um, findings from that project was
that for many of them nobody had
had the conversation about early
years being an option for for men.
(14:27):
Uh parents didn't have the conversations
with them very often careers guidance and
and school and it's something that they
never kind of had considered previously.
But one of the kind of key findings for
us was that by third year and our focus
was in 3rd year um boys was that they
had pretty much made-up their mind about
(14:50):
their career choice by that age and stage.
So it only kind of reinforced for us,
you know that the need and the importance
and having these conversations and exposing
everyone and it being fair and equal
so that everybody has an idea about uh
career opportunities to allow them to.
To make an informed decision about
their potential career pathways,
(15:11):
no, I think that's really the cane.
Again from my experience of talking
a lot of students and parents that
often don't know what's out there,
don't know what these jobs look like,
they don't know how to get there
and it's just about trying to raise
the awareness of that to,
to allow them to make informed decision.
No,
that's really interesting because
I know the first question people
have when looking at things.
This is great, but how do I pay for it?
So yeah,
(15:31):
obviously we're fortunate kind of
received some funding there are
being quite yeah but cute with
funding and kind of how we do it.
I guess from what you're seeing,
there's a lot of a lot of in-house
development here in terms
of using public services,
students in terms of using construction,
students in terms of using their states team.
But ultimately it's about providing a,
a curriculum that meets
the need of the sector,
which is really interesting.
(15:53):
Final real question from me is I
guess I think well this project and
maybe think about other people who
are interested in doing the same or a
similar project in a different Brooklyn area.
I guess what are the principles of
the project that you think has made
this approach particularly effective?
So kind of why is this? Why is it worked?
(16:16):
For me, for me as as you know,
um, I would say it's worked
because the staff have been really
enthusiastic about the whole concept.
And you know, we have a core team of staff
who have completely embraced the idea of,
uh, outdoor learning and see it as,
you know, the way forward.
(16:37):
I think one thing I would say
to anyone who's interested in,
you know, developing staff.
Or developing like an outdoor classroom,
because ours is an outdoor classroom
that any group in the college
could access and utilize is a.
It it's not necessary,
necessary to have the training,
(16:57):
but what the training does is it gives
staff the confidence to then be able
to embrace ideas and to look further,
you know, outside themselves,
to look at other possibilities.
So the training for us was free and
Caroline and I both agree that it
(17:18):
was probably the best three days of
training we have had in our careers.
But it's not so much that the
training is absolutely necessary,
but it does give staff the
confidence then to have, you know,
ideas and and see the possibilities
that you know can lead on from this.
Because our projects have been,
(17:38):
you know, quite varied.
You know, we've worked with the three boys.
We've also had a really great project
where we've worked with a local
primary school for a primary six and
seven on an alternative curriculum.
So we're talking about young people who had.
Um, you know,
had traumatic experiences in their lives.
(17:59):
And um, the feedback from the school
in terms of the project is that
it really has made a difference
to the engagement in the school.
Um, working with our students has
also supported their young people.
And just in general,
I think the project and and all
the work we've done has provided
(18:19):
many benefits to our community.
You know, we've worked with local teachers.
We've supported them.
And planning their um classrooms,
we've invited them onto campus and
um going forward that's, you know,
what we intend to continue to do.
That sounds fantastic.
Karen, have you got anything out there?
I can see where you get a couple of things.
(18:40):
Yeah.
So I think that I would agree with Anna.
I think if it wasn't for the the
team being so like enthusiastic to
get involved into like sort of drive
the project and the development
like you know as much as it has,
then it wouldn't have been successful.
But I think that also comes down to
like Anna and the matter managers
as well that and allowing us the
(19:00):
opportunity to be able to develop it
because particularly when we first
started in relation to the forest.
Kindergarten unit and there is a bit
of an outlay in terms of expense for
equipment because we need to have tarps,
sponges,
lots of different equipment that
you need to be able to do that.
And that like you know when budgets
are tight is quite a significant
um you know cost that you're
(19:20):
investing in an approach.
But I think it's paid off because that
initial budget like you know sort of
like outlay in terms of equipment is
still being used now like you know.
So it's not like it's an ongoing expense,
it's just the initial startup and we did do.
A lot of it is like cheaply as we can and
use like recyclable materials because
you don't have to have like a major kit.
(19:41):
You just have to have enough that
means that they shouldn't get
the best experience they can.
But we always tend to um,
show a way of like this is what
you could have,
but this is how you could do
it with little or no.
You know,
so that it's not just about
equipment and being really expensive.
It's about like how you approach it and
how you embed it within the teaching.
And because there's sometimes
we just take classes out where
(20:02):
there may be just like you know,
completing a worksheet and things like that.
But. Get into the outdoor area
just because it's like, you know,
somewhere different and in a
different experience environment.
So nothing that's really useful.
OK, just jot those down there.
And when I'm kind of looking back at those,
I run through a second.
It kind of really aligns to also
principles of effective student
program in terms of first,
(20:22):
I'm a big picture with a clear vision
and purpose kind of what am I doing,
why am I doing this that comes back kind
of this project having the right training,
you know,
and often to give that perspective and
a different view on how things can be done,
but also to give the necessary confidence.
Having some key partners, you know,
so you've alluded to getting many,
many, many there.
And again the same for any kind of
educational program for students.
(20:43):
Often that links to the industry and the
key partners helps them understand what
they're doing and why they're doing it.
And the final bit kind of used to that
is that kind of accountability of yeah,
well, we've bought into this,
we're going to do is we're going to own this,
we're gonna own this space.
It's the same for students
within their own program.
I'm accountable for my study,
my course, my program, my destination.
So all those things that I'm going to say
(21:04):
some very clear transferable between.
Those principles that made this
program effective but also Community
can make any program effective but
also the student experience effective.
And I think it's kind of really
interesting but it's kind of really
exciting to to hear about it and kind
of the impact it's had on on both the
cryptomeria but also the broader college.
So we exciting to see kind of
how it goes in the future.
(21:24):
Is there any plans to add to it and
develop further maybe an outdoor
BBQ area or ohh yes we're we're
planning on our our kind of next
area but the the area is so popular.
It's often over timetabled, yeah.
So we are now looking at our our
next potential sites and the campus,
(21:45):
but we're in a fortunate position.
You know we're, we're,
we have land available to us.
So um,
we've got lots of green space around
us and and we actually just utilize any
green space that we need at any time.
Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. Well, great.
Well, good luck with those next steps.
And what I will say is thank you
very much for joining me today.
You can kind of really interesting,
(22:05):
I'm sure listeners are kind of.
Keen as well.
I'm sure they'll be in touch with
any further questions.
OK,
come have a look or I'll get in
touch with our team so we can see
what it looks like, but. Fine.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye.
Hello and welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of the podcast is to bring to
the fore some key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss the breakdown aspects
of practice and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to
integrate these into our daily practice.
Today I'm delighted to be joined
by Anna Styles and Caroline Jarvis
from West Lothian College, Anat.
(00:29):
Caroline, how are you? Hi.
Hi, Johnny. Good, thanks. Thanks.
And by the way, hi, I'm Caroline.
And yeah, I'm good Twitter as well.
Thank you.
Different podcast,
hold on previous whereby we've got
two guests, so we'll be kind of vying,
vying to talk and yeah,
so we'll be a bit interesting there.
But today we're going to look at
outdoor learning and the specialist
(00:49):
pedagogy of the outdoor classroom.
And obviously this is a project
that's been going on the West Lothian.
So,
and I think you're going to kick us
off by telling us a bit about what this is.
OK, um, so in,
in terms of our outdoor learning
over the last couple of years we've
really developed our outdoor learning
pedagogy um and this really came about,
(01:09):
uh through our self evaluation process
and in dialogue and conversations with
our partners in the local authority,
we worked really closely with
our partners and uh,
they had approached us and asked
us specifically what we were
doing to ensure that.
Practitioners were skilled and
(01:29):
understood the pedagogy behind
outdoor learning before they
transitioned into both placement and
ultimately to becoming practitioners.
So really the journey began with
us uh identifying as a team the
the most appropriate site to locate
a forest classroom on our campus.
(01:50):
And we are quite fortunate in
that we do have quite extensive
grounds around the campus.
So we agreed on an area that we could
develop that you know has some trees,
lots of ground,
there was lots of potential that we could
see there and it started off really by.
(02:10):
Engaging with students across the
college and we asked our uniformed
public services to assist and
volunteered and clearing some
of the land around the campus.
We also engaged with our facility staff
who really did a fantastic job in
supporting the early development of the area.
Um building a fire pit,
(02:33):
putting fences around and shooting
the site was secure.
Um building some mud kitchen and lots of out.
External out lots of resources
to allow us to have then uh,
encouraged children to come on to site,
um.
So that's really where it started
and how it's developed from kind
(02:54):
of the the early days which is
about two years ago now.
Yeah,
that's our first question in terms of
sort it's been in place for two years.
What we write this humans evolved
over that time as well in terms of its
grown or have been added to that as well.
It's definitely evolved since the initial.
So since that initial point
where we identified the land,
(03:14):
um the staff within childhood
practice then obviously upskilled
to make sure that we were able to
deliver a sort of like outdoor
learning pedagogy and or practice.
And so that made ourselves going
on a couple of courses and to
try and give us those skills.
But at the same time the Forestry
Commission is that right Anna is that
(03:36):
who fell under developed in Level 7.
And uh unit in terms of forest kindergarten,
Umm with uh in conjunction
with Juliet Robertson,
who is like basically the educational
specialist in outdoor learning.
And we were fortunate to have
be awarded 5 spaces on the very
first training course for that.
Which then which then meant that we
(03:57):
were in a position where um after
sort of like the like you know,
towards the early part of when
we had the site,
we could then develop an actual
unit to be delivered to the HNC
cohort and which was basically.
The first point of actually embedding uh,
outdoor learning pedagogy within
an actual um, like you know,
(04:19):
course framework.
So that was delivered into our
whole HNC cohort that year,
which equated to about 100
students that went through it,
um and basically um.
The feedback that we got from that
from the students was that it was
really well received and particularly
when they went on out to practice
it gave them the opportunity
to sort of embed those skills.
(04:39):
As a practitioner,
and it was fully desirable by the
local authority where most of them
would then go on and get jobs.
And as a result of that success
over like that year and also the
coming years up to where we are now,
we've then taken that,
um,
outdoor learning and embedded it
from level 4 right the way up to level 8.
So basically all levels of students were it,
(05:01):
regardless of the course or the
entry level within childhood practice
will have some form of experience
of outdoor learning within our.
What is classroom or the
surrounding college areas?
So that we instill that sort of like,
you know,
pedagogy of the benefits of outdoor
learning for children from the very,
very start.
So it's a progression so that what
they learn in Level 4 is then
(05:22):
built upon in level 5, level 6.
And then when they get to each
NPC's to do the formal SQA unit,
which is the only unit so far
in Scotland that is actually a
recognizable unit qualification
that you can get certificated for.
Um.
So we've developed like, you know,
non SQA units as a result of that.
No, that sounds fantastic.
And there's so many questions
(05:42):
there I kind of want to unpick.
And I guess the first one is,
you've talked about you've used that
across multiple levels of courses,
which is great.
So I guess.
Within that,
what benefits have you
noticed then from your
level 4 when I was up to level 8
in terms of them engaging within
obviously the outdoor learning outdoor
classroom throughout their programs.
So particularly with the lower levels in
(06:03):
in relation to light level 4 and level 5.
This is the first year that we're fully
sort of embedded that within their courses.
And I would have to say that the
feedback because obviously I am sort
of supporting those levels within
that with other colleagues and that
are also delivered in these units
is that they like the practical.
Element and the fact is that like
when they go out and do activities
(06:24):
within the forest classroom,
whether that be like bushcraft
literacy and numeracy,
whatever it is,
then building whatever the focus is
of that week session is that they
tend to be calmer and they approve.
They don't feel like they're at college
because although we're on the college campus,
you do feel like a bit taken away from that.
And so they basically forget about
(06:45):
the fact that they're college and
they're just focused on their learning,
but they also,
and particularly if they had
their stressful day.
Before they've come to college,
they all do say that it relaxes
them even though they're learning.
But when they go to actually then
write up their sessions or to use
that within a like assessment format,
they're much able to relate that
much more because of the practical
(07:05):
experience that they've had.
Yeah,
really interesting because I know
one of the first episodes we did as
part of podcast looked at retrieval
practice and just different ways
of evading learners to store memory
and information, sorry,
information in their memory.
And that's a prime example there.
You know,
I've kind of learners engaging
with some invocation.
Relevant and then aiding their
understanding their articulation of that
learning and content and we'll transfer,
(07:27):
you know, so that's really interesting.
And myself and Caroline were talking,
um,
pretty recording around the the unique
vocational element that students
can typically receive in a college
compared to studying with other providers.
And this is a prime example of that
because guess what you're trying to
do is prepare learners for their next
steps and to kind of for the workforce.
And would it be right to assume
that a lot of a lot of schools,
(07:48):
a lot of destinations that students
would be progressing into?
Will be doing more forest type activities
compared or more outdoor learning
type activities compared to 5-6 years ago?
Is that fair to see there as well?
I think that's absolutely fair to say and
particularly as a result of the pandemic,
you know that that's really kind
of changed everybody's expectation
(08:09):
in terms of classroom.
So although it had been um,
more common for early years to be you know,
outside and that was kind of the
norm certainly for primary schools.
There's definitely a shift in
the dynamic of you know indoor,
outdoor and I think the beauty
of of our kind of setup is that.
(08:30):
Obviously pre COVID um we
had uh children on campus,
so all the way from from nursery
children on campus up to primary 7
and indeed um some third year boys.
One of the projects we were we were
running was with third year boys.
So that allows our students to
have that practical experience in
(08:51):
a safe environment so they develop
their skills and interaction,
their communication with children
and young people before they're
then exposed to the.
The the placement and also having then to,
um, work and understand and
manage the dynamics of a team.
So it really is a supportive environment
for them to develop those early skills
(09:13):
where they feel safe and supported.
Yeah.
And also in addition to that,
I think as well with the students,
particularly the younger students,
not a lot of them have had outdoor
learning experience themselves.
They're not used to being outside
playing like as children because
we're sort of like moved to that
sort of risk of their society where.
They can all letting children just go
out and play on the streets like what
(09:34):
I would have done when I was younger.
It just doesn't happen.
So actually allowing and have another
uh children from local settings
coming into work with the students.
It's about like changing that and
challenging that mindset of being
risk averse to being much more about
risk benefits and to outdoor learning
and and giving them those skills that
they'll need to as they progress on.
(09:55):
Yeah I think that's a really key
bit for me in terms of you know the
skills development and progression
pushing students out of their
comfort zone and I guess that's.
Has just become a routine and a norm
for them as part of their program.
You know again from my own
criticism in the past week,
when you put students in this situation,
they often know as sorry as a one off.
They often know to false situation
where it's actually this is a routine,
it's an expectation and against
what preparing them for the sector,
(10:16):
which is ultimately what we're trying to do.
You know,
we're standards expectations and when
you draw in um experience of working
with younger people from primary
schools and so on and so forth,
that makes it more real for them as well,
you know, and challenging.
The students have developed their
skills in that different context
where they can't necessarily
mess around with the mate.
They've got to have um,
(10:36):
I'm going to say workers mentality you know
which I think is really important there.
And just touching back we said
Anna before I'm kind of kind
of across college initiative,
across college engagement.
Has that progressed further than as well?
I've said no code would have
impacted on this,
but in terms of this type of activity
or project based learning or elements,
um does that work more broadly across the
college then as well from your experience?
(10:58):
Yes, uh, definitely.
We've had opportunities to work more closely
with our colleagues in construction.
So it's given them an opportunity to
actually we became their customer.
So we had a group of uh construction
uh students who worked with one of
our lecturers to she became their
(11:19):
customer and set them a brief.
So they've uh provided and and built um.
Equipment for the forest.
So you know, they've just finished
constructing like a a storytelling area.
They've developed another mud kitchen
for us and they have lots of ideas and
plans for future developments for that.
(11:40):
But there's possibilities for right
across the college, you know,
for lots of opportunities to to develop um
relationships and also external partnerships.
We've got a number of
external partnerships now.
Uh, I really uh keen focuses.
In terms of sustainability
and for us across the college,
(12:01):
we're looking at rewilding the campus.
So we're in talks with The Woodlands
Trust and the conservation volunteers and
it's about developing those relationships
and ensuring that our students have
an understanding of sustainability,
the natural environment,
the world and their place within it.
No, I think that's really interesting.
(12:22):
I know when we talked
prior to again recording,
we've talked around as many transferable
here not just for for childcare,
earlier script and Maria you know
across the piece of other listeners
listen this episode in terms of that
cross college work and in terms of
work with local authorities working
with industry um preparing students
for their industry.
We'll talk about national
initiatives before as well.
We're trying to get more meals into
(12:44):
early years and and also working with
local schools and a partnership you
know so there's many different ways.
And from working in the sector
in the past in England,
some people would would be quite cynical
and saying you do want to tick boxes,
absolutely not.
This is done for the benefit of our students,
to help them be exposed to the real world,
to help them develop and progress into
(13:05):
whatever their intended destination is.
And I'm I'm keynote where this
idea come from initially.
So kind of how does how did this come about?
Was it just a uh looking out the window
one day and see a bit of land thing?
Great. Let's go there.
Was this a need from the local authority?
Where did this come from?
Well,
initially it was definitely a conversation
with the the local authority.
(13:25):
But um,
at the same point we had uh applied
for some funding from um the fund
Scottish Funding Council to run a a
pilot project to encourage uh young
men into careers in early years.
And we thought that these two
running alongside one another might
be an opportunity.
(13:46):
We're not in any way saying,
you know, like um.
Men would you know should
be sort of kind of um
encouraged down their line of outdoor
education and and and early years.
But what we did find is as part
of the project was that um.
(14:06):
It was really to find out about their
career aspirations and where their ideas
off their career pathways had been formed.
And the interesting, you know,
um, findings from that project was
that for many of them nobody had
had the conversation about early
years being an option for for men.
(14:27):
Uh parents didn't have the conversations
with them very often careers guidance and
and school and it's something that they
never kind of had considered previously.
But one of the kind of key findings for
us was that by third year and our focus
was in 3rd year um boys was that they
had pretty much made-up their mind about
(14:50):
their career choice by that age and stage.
So it only kind of reinforced for us,
you know that the need and the importance
and having these conversations and exposing
everyone and it being fair and equal
so that everybody has an idea about uh
career opportunities to allow them to.
To make an informed decision about
their potential career pathways,
(15:11):
no, I think that's really the cane.
Again from my experience of talking
a lot of students and parents that
often don't know what's out there,
don't know what these jobs look like,
they don't know how to get there
and it's just about trying to raise
the awareness of that to,
to allow them to make informed decision.
No,
that's really interesting because
I know the first question people
have when looking at things.
This is great, but how do I pay for it?
So yeah,
(15:31):
obviously we're fortunate kind of
received some funding there are
being quite yeah but cute with
funding and kind of how we do it.
I guess from what you're seeing,
there's a lot of a lot of in-house
development here in terms
of using public services,
students in terms of using construction,
students in terms of using their states team.
But ultimately it's about providing a,
a curriculum that meets
the need of the sector,
which is really interesting.
(15:53):
Final real question from me is I
guess I think well this project and
maybe think about other people who
are interested in doing the same or a
similar project in a different Brooklyn area.
I guess what are the principles of
the project that you think has made
this approach particularly effective?
So kind of why is this? Why is it worked?
(16:16):
For me, for me as as you know,
um, I would say it's worked
because the staff have been really
enthusiastic about the whole concept.
And you know, we have a core team of staff
who have completely embraced the idea of,
uh, outdoor learning and see it as,
you know, the way forward.
(16:37):
I think one thing I would say
to anyone who's interested in,
you know, developing staff.
Or developing like an outdoor classroom,
because ours is an outdoor classroom
that any group in the college
could access and utilize is a.
It it's not necessary,
necessary to have the training,
(16:57):
but what the training does is it gives
staff the confidence to then be able
to embrace ideas and to look further,
you know, outside themselves,
to look at other possibilities.
So the training for us was free and
Caroline and I both agree that it
(17:18):
was probably the best three days of
training we have had in our careers.
But it's not so much that the
training is absolutely necessary,
but it does give staff the
confidence then to have, you know,
ideas and and see the possibilities
that you know can lead on from this.
Because our projects have been,
(17:38):
you know, quite varied.
You know, we've worked with the three boys.
We've also had a really great project
where we've worked with a local
primary school for a primary six and
seven on an alternative curriculum.
So we're talking about young people who had.
Um, you know,
had traumatic experiences in their lives.
(17:59):
And um, the feedback from the school
in terms of the project is that
it really has made a difference
to the engagement in the school.
Um, working with our students has
also supported their young people.
And just in general,
I think the project and and all
the work we've done has provided
(18:19):
many benefits to our community.
You know, we've worked with local teachers.
We've supported them.
And planning their um classrooms,
we've invited them onto campus and
um going forward that's, you know,
what we intend to continue to do.
That sounds fantastic.
Karen, have you got anything out there?
I can see where you get a couple of things.
(18:40):
Yeah.
So I think that I would agree with Anna.
I think if it wasn't for the the
team being so like enthusiastic to
get involved into like sort of drive
the project and the development
like you know as much as it has,
then it wouldn't have been successful.
But I think that also comes down to
like Anna and the matter managers
as well that and allowing us the
(19:00):
opportunity to be able to develop it
because particularly when we first
started in relation to the forest.
Kindergarten unit and there is a bit
of an outlay in terms of expense for
equipment because we need to have tarps,
sponges,
lots of different equipment that
you need to be able to do that.
And that like you know when budgets
are tight is quite a significant
um you know cost that you're
(19:20):
investing in an approach.
But I think it's paid off because that
initial budget like you know sort of
like outlay in terms of equipment is
still being used now like you know.
So it's not like it's an ongoing expense,
it's just the initial startup and we did do.
A lot of it is like cheaply as we can and
use like recyclable materials because
you don't have to have like a major kit.
(19:41):
You just have to have enough that
means that they shouldn't get
the best experience they can.
But we always tend to um,
show a way of like this is what
you could have,
but this is how you could do
it with little or no.
You know,
so that it's not just about
equipment and being really expensive.
It's about like how you approach it and
how you embed it within the teaching.
And because there's sometimes
we just take classes out where
(20:02):
there may be just like you know,
completing a worksheet and things like that.
But. Get into the outdoor area
just because it's like, you know,
somewhere different and in a
different experience environment.
So nothing that's really useful.
OK, just jot those down there.
And when I'm kind of looking back at those,
I run through a second.
It kind of really aligns to also
principles of effective student
program in terms of first,
(20:22):
I'm a big picture with a clear vision
and purpose kind of what am I doing,
why am I doing this that comes back kind
of this project having the right training,
you know,
and often to give that perspective and
a different view on how things can be done,
but also to give the necessary confidence.
Having some key partners, you know,
so you've alluded to getting many,
many, many there.
And again the same for any kind of
educational program for students.
(20:43):
Often that links to the industry and the
key partners helps them understand what
they're doing and why they're doing it.
And the final bit kind of used to that
is that kind of accountability of yeah,
well, we've bought into this,
we're going to do is we're going to own this,
we're gonna own this space.
It's the same for students
within their own program.
I'm accountable for my study,
my course, my program, my destination.
So all those things that I'm going to say
(21:04):
some very clear transferable between.
Those principles that made this
program effective but also Community
can make any program effective but
also the student experience effective.
And I think it's kind of really
interesting but it's kind of really
exciting to to hear about it and kind
of the impact it's had on on both the
cryptomeria but also the broader college.
So we exciting to see kind of
how it goes in the future.
(21:24):
Is there any plans to add to it and
develop further maybe an outdoor
BBQ area or ohh yes we're we're
planning on our our kind of next
area but the the area is so popular.
It's often over timetabled, yeah.
So we are now looking at our our
next potential sites and the campus,
(21:45):
but we're in a fortunate position.
You know we're, we're,
we have land available to us.
So um,
we've got lots of green space around
us and and we actually just utilize any
green space that we need at any time.
Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. Well, great.
Well, good luck with those next steps.
And what I will say is thank you
very much for joining me today.
You can kind of really interesting,
(22:05):
I'm sure listeners are kind of.
Keen as well.
I'm sure they'll be in touch with
any further questions.
OK,
come have a look or I'll get in
touch with our team so we can see
what it looks like, but. Fine.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye.
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