In this episode we talk to Laura Watson and Katie Paget from Dundee and Angus College where the topic of ‘Education for sustainability’ is explored and unpicked. They share their perspectives on what is meant by the term, why they feel it is important, and how colleagues from across the sector can integrate conversations on this topic within their teaching practice to further educate students and raise awareness.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Hello, welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of the podcast is bringing
the four some key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss, to break down aspects
of practice and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to integrate
these into how do we practice today,
I'm delighted to be joined by
Katie Padgett and Laura Watson
from Dundee and Angus College.
Katie. Laura, how are you both OK?
(00:30):
Yeah. That's very good. Yeah.
Good. Thank you. Fantastic.
Today's topic.
So the episode is gonna focus on
education for sustainability and I
think Katie's gonna kick us off here.
So Katie and similar terms,
what do we mean by the term education
for sustainability?
Well, I think it's a,
it's a big question in some ways because
I think there's a lot of different
(00:50):
definitions around that different
organizations have put out there
and also just different terminology.
So the sustainable development, education,
education for sustainable development,
learning for sustainability,
learning for equity and sustainability
and education for sustainability.
So I think, you know,
people hear the different ones and
it's about what does it actually mean,
because I think they all really
(01:11):
mean the same thing,
but people have coined them differently, so.
For me,
it's just about engaging
and raising awareness, um,
in our learners about different
global issues.
So obviously you've got the
sustainable Development Goals,
which there's a large number of,
but some of the key ones there
are climate change,
poverty,
access to quality education and healthcare
(01:33):
and and then the other SDGS as well.
I think when people hear sustainability,
they think climate change,
plastic, things like that.
And it's about raising the awareness
that there's much more to it than that.
And and it's about equipping our communities
with the knowledge about what they are,
what it is,
and and then skills and attitudes
to actually take action and
(01:55):
inspire some change in society.
Nothing that's really well putting.
You're right there at the start.
There's lots of different interpretations of
different language used around the space.
You know I'm a big believer in
kind of real clarity and keeping
that message quite simple.
I think that's going to really clear point.
That's kind of how you've how you've
alluded to and broken that down.
So I guess the next bit then is so
I'm sure lectures minds we think
(02:16):
this isn't totally agree with you.
Not my job or OK,
how do I do that?
So I guess again, in your world,
it's within a discussion.
We're gonna explore kind of what
you've done or kind of what it
means to you and how it fits
into your your daily practice.
So I guess to start with,
where did this topic come from or
how did it get started for yourselves
and kind of what's your journey,
(02:36):
what's your journey of your
College in this space?
Yeah.
Well,
that idea of um,
you know, not for me to do,
that's a really interesting one and
I think probably initially that's,
well, that's the biggest barrier
and that's the big shift that we
need to make and that's ultimately
what has been the problem and what
has caused the problem globally is
(02:57):
putting off to tomorrow what should
be done today and yesterday and the
the kind of pillaging of the planet
since the industrial revolution.
So, so that idea that it's not
my problem can't happen anymore.
Um, but that's a huge cultural,
societal shift to make.
So I guess the first thing is to
(03:17):
to feel that responsibility as a
lecturer to to know that actually
to make that shift happen,
we have to explicitly work to do that.
And so, so that would be the first thing,
is to kind of begin to inform all
of our staff and all of our students
so that that awareness is there.
And actually if we could get that
(03:39):
shift happening, we'd almost have.
Problem solved and everybody
took that responsibility so.
So yeah it's it's a big journey and
and and for us it started with our
sustainability champions course that
we had took wins that Katie well you
would that have been. Is it 2018 or 19?
(04:00):
There's a couple of years ago now anyway.
Uh, couple of years ago.
Um. So.
So a few of us kind of volunteered um.
And it was an excellent course and it
basically got us to really think about,
you know,
what we were doing with our
learners in the classroom and and
and and got me thinking about is,
(04:20):
is sustainability at the
heart of everything that I do?
Is it a conscious thought that I have
before I make any decision, before I do?
Anything.
And to be fair, it wasn't.
I thought I was really good, but I wasn't.
Yeah.
Because that's not actually how
I've grown up.
That's not the society that I have lived in.
And and and probably it's still not yet,
you know, I want to be there,
(04:42):
but I'm probably still not there yet.
But certainly within my teaching I
was seeing that as an adult and I was
seeing that as something separate and
something that I needed to try and
put in there rather than something
that should be really embodied in what I do.
And actually for my subject, it's so easy.
For me to put it in and really
explicitly and to really go for it,
(05:02):
and because I teach contemporary
dance performance.
So we talk always about dance,
being a vehicle for change,
using your choreographic voice
and really seeing something.
And actually,
I've been quite interested in not
to dismiss our students in any way,
but how little the students had
to say on these areas before.
And so I thought, well,
(05:22):
this is a perfect time for me to use
all the resources and the stimulus
that I'm getting through this
course and put it into practice.
And the students and I was making
an end of year show with them.
And so I thought, right, I'll do this.
So, um, we'd watched, uh, uh, it was.
We were talking about microplastics.
They seen the plastic whale. Um.
So we've started with that as an idea
(05:44):
for inspiration and and what we decided
to do was to just see amongst a group
of 16 of us how much recyclable plastic
we produced in the production process.
So three weeks,
we didn't recycle anything.
But we didn't recycle any of
it through the process.
We just gathered it all together.
Um, we worked looking at we took
(06:06):
Greta Thunberg speech and we made
that's part of our soundtrack and we
worked it physically abusing that.
We worked at making sure that the
production that we created was sustainable.
So we didn't do any of our sort of
runs to Primark to buy costumes,
but instead they all had a budget and went
to a charity shop to buy their costumes.
And and then we explored what it meant to
(06:27):
actually have microplastics coming into our.
System into our food chain and so.
So one of the students was really
big on the idea of trying to sort
of show this within the piece.
So he actually in his own time at home
work with a spinning sugar to create a
plastic bottle which he ate on stage.
(06:47):
We then got all of our plastic
together to form our set and that
made a huge big sort of globe that
we hung from the top of the stage.
So it was like our sort of plastic
planet and and and and they
all danced in their lovely.
Which had a shop costume.
So it was, it was a really,
really nice process.
And through that process,
you know,
we obviously we looked at fast fashion that's
(07:08):
why we decided to buy charity shop costumes.
But we also talked about you know,
they were talking about ohh well,
in this shop you can buy your apples without
having to buy them already bagged up.
And I've been trying to go vegan
and then it's an absolute nightmare.
I think I nearly fainted the other
day because if I can't do it,
you know,
these kind of a side conversations were
happening and in their evaluations
at the end I had lots of really,
(07:30):
really.
Lovely statements about,
you know,
I've been speaking to my family about this,
I've been speaking to my friends about this,
and I know they weren't just
seeing it to please me,
knowing I was going to
read their evaluations.
It did definitely make a difference,
but I was actually talking to Katie
earlier this morning about this.
Because at the end we came back
together and we all shared
the projects that we've done.
And I was speaking to the UM
(07:52):
sustainability group that I was with
and I was seeing the project and
one of the lecturers said Ohh,
I would really like to see that piece.
And I was like, ohh, yeah.
I said my students would have
really liked to see that.
If my students had seen somebody
eat a plastic bottle on stage,
they really would have got that notion
of microplastics much more than
some conceptual kind of conversation
(08:12):
that we might have in the classroom.
And I thought, well,
what on Earth was I doing?
I invited the head of buildings
and estates and nobody else.
It was all his friends and family,
and of course they got the message.
But there could have been groups
of students coming to see us.
They could have been lecturers bringing
their group chitto groups to come and see us.
It could have been a lovely sort of time out.
And that collective collaborative
(08:33):
effort is really something that's
going to be really important if we're
going to make a change moving forwards.
So. So that was my initial and sorry,
I just realized I've been,
I've been talking for quite a while there.
That was my initial experience.
That's something fine,
Laura.
I think the first thing comes through
there is kind of real passion.
And I think the second bit that comes
through is just how actually easy it
(08:53):
is in the ripple effect that it does have.
You know the the killing with this,
I'm trying to steal both.
Your funder Thunder is,
it's around awareness, reason.
Quite simply,
that's the purpose of this.
We can't change our people's
decisions but we can raise awareness
which might influence that.
So anyway, I'm going to be quiet.
Katie,
what are your thoughts on
what's your experience?
Because obviously you're involved in science.
(09:13):
Is that right?
And so I'm a science lecturer,
so it's a little bit different in our area.
Um and I do you know and again.
I try and think about it
and how I'm delivering,
but a lot of our delivery is quite
different and theoretical based or
in the lab and we have a big issue
in the lab and because plastic is
so prevalent in in laboratories
(09:36):
for aseptic technique.
And we've had lots of discussions
and actually students saying,
you know, oh, this is terrible.
You know,
we're wasting all of these pets
and pet tips and Petri dishes
and things like that.
And it has been discussed and we have
tried to find ways to reduce that down or,
um, you know,
do less of the same thing.
But there is a,
there's an element where you just have to.
(09:57):
It's difficult.
But one of the subjects I also teach
on the side is with our access group,
I teach communications and to get
further to get into university,
and we do debates.
And so when we were doing this
project that Laura was talking about,
I.
Took that into into the debate
that we were doing,
and I gave them a subject heading that was,
(10:18):
um, by 2025, the medical and scientific
industry could be plastic free.
And ask them to go and
research it and find out.
And it was so interesting and we ended up
where the groups that I'd put actually
separated themselves into more groups
because there was so many tangents to
it and different industries and where
it would work and where it wouldn't.
And and they had ones where people
(10:40):
took it from the general public
point of view to the managers and
the directors of industry and things.
And and then you had NHS and medical versus
other areas and they really took it on.
It was really,
really interesting and I had learned.
Lot through it as well,
but things that you just
never really think about that.
And I think it's been highlighted
this year with the pandemic.
(11:00):
I don't know about anybody else,
but when I went and got vaccinated last week,
I took off my cloth mask and
had to put on a plastic mask.
And then when I left there was
just a bin full of them and they
weren't folded up or tied up.
They were just loose to fly off in the wind,
you know, everywhere.
And I think and gloves and things like that.
It's obviously much worse.
(11:21):
But um.
Things like if you've got diabetes and
you have syringes, they're plastic,
things like that.
There's just it's so difficult for
us to be able to get away from that
and it would take a massive societal
and and policy change much higher
than where we are for that to happen.
Um.
So that was really interesting
and it kind of got loads of
conversations going around that area.
(11:42):
But um.
Additionally in the science
department we actually started having
sustainable and waste advocates
and people that took on a role and
because we in in our campus we have
a separate building over in science.
I don't know we're separated and not sure
why I try not to take it personally.
So please just wear the labs are and stuff.
(12:04):
So we have it quite separate and we
have vending machines and stuff and
there was just you know students
come back with their waste.
It just all went used to go into general
waste bin and there's Chris and stuff.
So we actually.
And me and another lecturer signed up
to a company called Terracycle Um where
you collect things like crisp packets,
sweet wrappers and and cans
and things like that.
(12:24):
Well cans anyway, we could do,
but um like chocolate wrappers,
sweet wrappers, crisp packets and things.
And we make and we got the students
to make their own boxes and
they went into every classroom.
And then at the end of each week
and different students took turns
to collect them up and separate and
organize and package them to send away.
And I think that comes to a really
interesting point from what I've.
(12:45):
Looked at around him and um,
sustainability and building sustainable
campuses and education is that it's not
always just about what's in the curriculum,
it's about the physical environment
that the students are in as
well and raising that awareness.
We've done litter picks and things and
it's really interesting to see the
the how annoyed the students get and
how aware they are when they suddenly
(13:06):
have to pick up other people's waste.
And I think things like that and getting
more groups of students to have to take
that on like it could be an extra.
Unit or something that they have to
do extra curricular because I think
if you could do that and students
have to then pick up the waste,
they wouldn't drop the waste
in the 1st place and and so.
(13:27):
Making changes isn't just about
embedding in the curriculum,
which is obviously really important,
but it's also about raising awareness
through the physical environment,
extracurricular activities and
things like that.
And it's the power of tiny gains.
Again, you know,
like all of these little things.
Like Laura said,
they inspire people to go and
talk to their family.
(13:47):
So with the thousands of students
we have and the thousands of staff,
if they take that wider every year,
that just that grows and that's what we want.
Agree with you.
I think I'm still basing Newcastle
in the freeze down here is
turning a tanker in the time,
you know,
that's kind of what it's like in
terms of to have this monumental
shift that is required.
(14:07):
It is huge.
However, you're absolutely right
there in terms of it's a little gains,
it's awareness raising and I've noticed this,
my daughter who's eight, you know,
and she loved Blue Peter.
It's still going and they're doing
a lot of work in this space as well.
And it that's all it is.
It's just raising awareness and
changing habits and behaviors and
I think that's really interesting.
I know as part of the induction,
Katie you mentioned the SDG's.
(14:28):
In terms of some of those,
some of the different categories or
sections and I think that's probably
useful place to start if you don't mind me,
I'm going to test your knowledge right now.
Ohh no ohh I'm not really.
Ohh, I'd make a reference to someone
that you mentioned at the start because yeah,
right.
It's not just about plastic.
There's different elements
included within this as well.
And I think,
(14:48):
yeah,
and I'll come back to kind of
what I believe might be the
next steps with this shortly.
So yeah.
So remind me just if you don't mind,
Katie, kind of some of the things you
mentioned at the start from the sags,
so you've got climate change.
Poverty or reduction of poverty?
Um, access to education,
access to healthcare.
Think there's like clean water, clean land?
(15:12):
I'm trying to think now.
There's seventeen of them and I.
Um, yeah, everybody was going.
I did find T-shirts with it on the other day.
So I'm gonna buy myself AT shirt
because I found that a few things
that even just inspiring conversations
I wore AT shirt the other day,
that was my, my T-shirt is rubbish.
(15:33):
And it was made from recycled plastic.
And students were like,
that's brilliant, you know?
And it's about also just those
informal random chats that you
have with students who inspire
discussions and talk about fast
fashion and things like that as well.
So I'm going to get myself an
SDG T-shirt and then I might.
Remember them as well.
And again it has become more prevalent
across you know the wider economy.
(15:54):
I saw football shirt that day that
was kind of made fully from recycle
plastic and it was Tottenham's you
know so it's becoming part of the
norm but like you see these are these
are small ones which in one breath
is great but in the same breath it's
it's a bit of a token gesture when in
a football context might be giving
out drinks and plastic glasses you
know so it's it's kind of giving him
one hand thing with the other but
anyway that's kind of come back to
(16:14):
the sector and come back to I guess
my initial myths or misconceptions
already coming put the bed in terms of.
This can be part of our daily
practice in terms of Laura's project,
in terms of kind of your debate,
Katie and I think, yeah,
it's really interesting to.
I guess they'll put it on the radar of
other lectures that up, by the way.
So have you done that within
(16:34):
your college so far?
And how have you done that,
if you don't mind me asking?
Of kind of how you've tried
to raise awareness, um,
with other actors,
even just in your local team or
kind of more broadly across the college?
Tony wants to do that once.
I don't know Laura do you want to
can probably do a bit each there can we.
Yeah a little bit.
Well obviously we had our sustainability
champions course and that was our
(16:55):
initial real catalyst and I think
probably everybody came away from that
and and then sort of um initiated
something within their team is.
However I would say that it's that
experiential process that really has meaning.
So you can talk about a project and
and and I I'm kind of aware of not
wanting to be oh it's Laura who does
that and ticks. That box for us.
(17:17):
So, so there is a bigger shift to happen.
Um,
we have a really nice sort of group
tutor um tile, we call it channel,
which kind of links up to everybody
who's a group tutor and we pop
things on there and seeing with our
sustainable development channel.
And I do notice lecturers picking things up.
So obviously there are lots of other
group tutors in in my department
(17:38):
and I know that things are picked
up from the group tutor or the
Sustainable Development channel
and then she's putting them out to
students like what you doing for?
Earthware. So those kind of opportunities,
we can have those,
what do you call the green nudges?
They're the kind of ways that
I think we're getting. Um,
we're accessing people and supporting people,
but in really soft gentle ways.
(17:58):
So it's just like let's just put
that out there and then staff go,
Oh my God, yeah,
I should mention that to my shoes even,
you know, it's a case of going
this is something that's worth
mentioning to your students.
This is something that's important
to mention to your students.
And I think that's something, you know,
that's really important just generally
as a lecturer for us to always.
Remember is that we're much,
much more than just our subject specialism.
(18:20):
You know we have a a role and responsibility
to these young people and and and
it's a privileged position to be in,
you know to to be there to support them
on this journey and hopefully you know
make it a really positive one that will
stand them in good stead for the future.
And that's about you know,
building people who are there and ready
to take on what the future holds and that
(18:41):
is much more than contemporary dance.
So yeah those little nudges I think
are kind of where we're at just now.
Katie, I don't know if you.
Yeah no I think definitely all
those things there is kind of
more stuff in the pipeline.
So obviously we're although we're dance
and science lecturer our other role is
is learning and teaching mentors um.
(19:01):
And so we have we work within the UM
kind of training pathway and and so.
We're kind of starting to think about
how we embed some of these ideas into
the professional learning delivery that
we do whether that's within the the pathways.
And so I know in our we've got a
program called teach at DNA which is
(19:21):
instead of the PDA and each session
that I did linked to a professional
standard and and so things like
building in a session around the
professional standard for embedding
sustainability and just it's about
inspiring those discussions and
getting people to talk about it
and you know think do you do it.
How could you do it and things and I
know one of the other mentors and I,
(19:42):
we've just started and delivering
some sessions around meta skills and
embedding meta skills and metacognition.
And so we did a we session where
we did a pretend classroom and we
built a session for the lecturer.
So it was really active learning
for them around what we did and
them to go away and go ohh that was
building all these meta skills.
But the task that we gave them was based
(20:02):
on one of the sustainable development
goals about quality education and how
we support that within the college.
Um,
so we're kind of trying to
interweave them almost
subliminally into stuff. Um.
But I'm just about to start as well.
I've just started a site on teams
called the Green Living at DNA.
Now, it's not launched yet for
anybody at DNA who hears me say this.
(20:23):
And but it will be coming,
probably start of the new semester in August,
UM, because we were thinking
about those tiny gains.
And you know, like Laura said,
you try really hard in your own
personal life to be more sustainable
and think about what you're doing,
and none of us are.
Perfect at all, you know,
and it's about those,
those little changes that we make, um.
(20:43):
And So what we thought was it would be
quite nice because within the group shooter,
sustainable channel and
things that we've got,
there's always these little conversations
going on and we thought let's take
it into something else where we can
have it just about sustainability,
but about how we do it at home.
So different categories around like home,
like home life and food and health
(21:06):
and well-being and you know, beauty.
Fashion, um,
offsetting your carbon travel
and things like that.
And just um finding there's so many
websites out there where you know
you can buy things even down to stuff
like um you know your sponge in your
kitchen that can be compostable you know,
and things that people
(21:26):
often don't think about.
So it's about saying well this
is I tried this website.
It was actually really good.
It actually lasted you know because
that's the problem is sometimes you try
these things and they're not very good.
So it's about just we wanted to make
some place where people can share.
You know somewhere that they found that's
really good um on different topics.
But then just get them thinking
because it comes back to that once
(21:48):
we've got the knowledge we can then
do the raising awareness and stuff.
So we want to help people kind
of build their knowledge and and
support them about thinking about
where the stuff that they're doing
in their own home life comes from
because again that's spreads
through communities and and builds.
So,
so that's coming soon as well as a
little side extra more personally
for staff and other curriculum.
(22:10):
I think it's some kind of really
really good ideas there and I
kind of kind of gonna close this
this this down in a minute.
I'm going to give you the final
question now give you some thinking
time on this in terms of just like
think of kind of what you what would
be your your tips or the next steps
for listeners know every college
got their own approaches uh but
for those that are kind of quite
new with this where should they
start but come back that a minute.
I think it's a commitment which
(22:31):
I really like.
The first one is I love the green
nudges you know that's all that comes
back and supports a narrative we
talk run kind of small steps and
and that take The thing is great.
Because yeah, we're not going to be able
to tackle every single thing that we
do within a day and change overnight.
But little bit by little bit
we'll raise awareness both as
colleagues and with students.
And that's great remains of something
(22:53):
that we did probably seven years ago.
We had no pens and no PowerPoint week just
to get teachers to think differently and
that might be a bit excessive full week,
but that type of approach to get people
out of their comfort zone or to think
differently in a different perspective.
And I guess the final point for me on this,
you're absolutely right,
Laura, in the sense of.
Actually we are influenced,
(23:14):
we are influencing the next generation
when people used to kind of you know.
Jewelry can joke with me in the passport
being a teacher and you know the
things that associate can remarks that
can't get passed across the teachers,
you know,
and the holidays and this type of stuff.
I was going to be be quite flipping back
and say I'm teaching the future of the
country but actually we are you know,
(23:34):
we're teaching the next workforce.
But it's not just about that subject content.
It's about teaching them to be
good people doing the right things,
right morals, right behaviors.
And again the phrase that I use
quite a lot of my former college
was actually good daily practice
if we do the right things.
Day by day with our students,
then that will have a significant
effect overtime.
That's both in relation
(23:54):
to our teaching practice,
but as well as in as well as kind of morals,
values and behaviors.
And this is a fundamental element of that.
Which then takes on to the final question.
So for those I've listened to
kind of quite inspired by this,
I guess it might be quite
difficult to think why do I stop?
There's so much here, where do I start?
So Lauren will come to you first.
(24:15):
What do you feel,
what would be your advice in terms
of next steps in terms of where
would someone start with this,
how would they approach kind of with
the pickup or kind of how would they
implement this within that practice?
Yeah,
I think there's loads that you could do.
So to start with,
you could obviously start having
a little Google around so they're
obviously you could be looking at this.
Sustainable development goals and I
think I feel pretty confident that
(24:36):
you're going to find at least one
that immediately resonates with you.
And I do think that that's important,
that it resonates with you,
that it connects to you,
that you feel passionate about it,
that you feel a sense of wanting
to push it forward,
that it doesn't feel like something
that's being imposed on you.
And because enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm.
So if we're enthusiastic,
(24:57):
they'll learners will be too.
However, the flip side could be just
presenting them to the learners like Katie.
She did. And finding what,
you know, really enthusiasts them.
And I guess breaking it down a little bit,
you know, there's, uh, the black
lives matters movement at the moment.
That's massive for the students.
I'm already thinking that might
be the next piece that we do.
But would they know that that could
be connected to the sustainable
(25:17):
development goals? I don't know.
You know, child marriage,
that's something that I'm really
interested in looking at personally.
I'm a mother of four children, 2 girls,
uh, a 13 month old and a a 13 year old.
So that's something that I want to do.
But is that something that
that they want to do?
So there has to be a synergy.
There between, you know,
what really enthuses you as a lecturer.
So, you know, you can give a lot
(25:39):
to and also to the learners.
But yeah, I mean, uh,
students organising for sustainability,
so souls, they have some things up there,
obviously, AUC, extinction,
Rebellion or organization that
I've been in contact with.
And if you want your learners to get out
there and actively involved in things,
they're really great.
You know,
you can just kind of go and do a project,
get out for an afternoon and do something
(26:00):
and like start to get the ball rolling
without any huge commitment, so.
Yeah, I guess that's kind of where
I'd be thinking if I was just starting out,
but looking for some ground to cover.
Great Kitty.
Ohh, Lori,
you've left me now with the.
So I would agree with everything
that Laura has just said.
I think starting out and finding
(26:21):
something that fits for you and
that you're passionate about
is the most important thing.
But again sharing that maybe with the
students and finding space within
the curriculum or the course that
they're doing um to and discussing
with other people who teach on that
course to think right within this
where what could we do and and and
even like you say asking the students
you know what most interests you,
(26:42):
what's going on at the moment and just
talking about the you know there's
so much out there in the world at
the moment going on and the news.
Is there for people to look at
and I think what you said Johnny
a minute ago about, you know,
the future and we're building out the,
you know, our future community,
um,
of adults who are going to run the country.
And and we want to make sure that
(27:02):
they are confident to go and find
information and learn and you know,
take responsibility themselves rather
than us saying this is what I found out,
go and watch this.
You know,
actually giving them that and
saying right where,
where would you take this you know,
and giving them some kind of project.
That they can really delve
into and make their own
and and research and find out about
(27:23):
because they'll let you know they
are great with Google and finding
stuff and watching videos and
YouTube and Ted talks and stuff.
All of that is there.
But I think for a member of.
Yeah for for a lecturer to look at.
Um yeah find something that
interests you and just start small.
Think of something small,
something quite straightforward and
then you know build your confidence
(27:44):
that way and see where it takes you.
Yeah. No I'll totally agree with that.
I just.
What kind of my dealings with
students in the past. Yeah.
Those are two key messages.
You both said that one is engaging learners.
You know, find out what's relevant to them.
What are the no.
And can it get them to kind of
share what they know and and
dispel any missile encouragement,
dispel each others miss.
And the second bit there
is yeah find that hook.
(28:05):
That's always the key.
But it's about I guess my final
message for lectures, listen,
is firstly speak to people in college,
you know,
because I know a lot of college and Scott
are doing some fantastic work in this space.
You know.
So find out what's being done and then.
Certainly.
Trying to think of how you can introduce
this as part of your curriculum,
again, not as a tickbox,
Gloria said,
(28:25):
not as a a shoe and I've got to do this,
but actually helping you make a
fit for purpose and relevance.
And when we step back and
look at our curriculum,
the large majority we can look at
actual there is a natural fit as
my background sport and fitness,
and I'm thinking Jim instructor and
personal trainer qualifications.
There's lots of elements there.
This could be discussed and explored
and it's the same for pretty much
every area where it can be relevant.
(28:46):
So no,
I think that's really interesting
and that's a fantastic conversation.
It's something that.
Only grow in terms of awareness in it.
And I think once the awareness develops,
further innovation terms of approaches
in terms of strategies in terms of
impact will continue to grow there as well.
You know, I think it'd be really
interesting and fascinating.
So thank you both very much for your time.
(29:08):
So yes, Lord,
thank you.
I hope you have a great summer
when it comes and like you say,
enjoy your holiday and rest as
well as the rest of the sector.
And hopefully I can see what our
discussion today has an impact
on until lessons. So thank you.
Aye.
About.
Hello, welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of the podcast is bringing
the four some key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss, to break down aspects
of practice and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to integrate
these into how do we practice today,
I'm delighted to be joined by
Katie Padgett and Laura Watson
from Dundee and Angus College.
Katie. Laura, how are you both OK?
(00:30):
Yeah. That's very good. Yeah.
Good. Thank you. Fantastic.
Today's topic.
So the episode is gonna focus on
education for sustainability and I
think Katie's gonna kick us off here.
So Katie and similar terms,
what do we mean by the term education
for sustainability?
Well, I think it's a,
it's a big question in some ways because
I think there's a lot of different
(00:50):
definitions around that different
organizations have put out there
and also just different terminology.
So the sustainable development, education,
education for sustainable development,
learning for sustainability,
learning for equity and sustainability
and education for sustainability.
So I think, you know,
people hear the different ones and
it's about what does it actually mean,
because I think they all really
(01:11):
mean the same thing,
but people have coined them differently, so.
For me,
it's just about engaging
and raising awareness, um,
in our learners about different
global issues.
So obviously you've got the
sustainable Development Goals,
which there's a large number of,
but some of the key ones there
are climate change,
poverty,
access to quality education and healthcare
(01:33):
and and then the other SDGS as well.
I think when people hear sustainability,
they think climate change,
plastic, things like that.
And it's about raising the awareness
that there's much more to it than that.
And and it's about equipping our communities
with the knowledge about what they are,
what it is,
and and then skills and attitudes
to actually take action and
(01:55):
inspire some change in society.
Nothing that's really well putting.
You're right there at the start.
There's lots of different interpretations of
different language used around the space.
You know I'm a big believer in
kind of real clarity and keeping
that message quite simple.
I think that's going to really clear point.
That's kind of how you've how you've
alluded to and broken that down.
So I guess the next bit then is so
I'm sure lectures minds we think
(02:16):
this isn't totally agree with you.
Not my job or OK,
how do I do that?
So I guess again, in your world,
it's within a discussion.
We're gonna explore kind of what
you've done or kind of what it
means to you and how it fits
into your your daily practice.
So I guess to start with,
where did this topic come from or
how did it get started for yourselves
and kind of what's your journey,
(02:36):
what's your journey of your
College in this space?
Yeah.
Well,
that idea of um,
you know, not for me to do,
that's a really interesting one and
I think probably initially that's,
well, that's the biggest barrier
and that's the big shift that we
need to make and that's ultimately
what has been the problem and what
has caused the problem globally is
(02:57):
putting off to tomorrow what should
be done today and yesterday and the
the kind of pillaging of the planet
since the industrial revolution.
So, so that idea that it's not
my problem can't happen anymore.
Um, but that's a huge cultural,
societal shift to make.
So I guess the first thing is to
(03:17):
to feel that responsibility as a
lecturer to to know that actually
to make that shift happen,
we have to explicitly work to do that.
And so, so that would be the first thing,
is to kind of begin to inform all
of our staff and all of our students
so that that awareness is there.
And actually if we could get that
(03:39):
shift happening, we'd almost have.
Problem solved and everybody
took that responsibility so.
So yeah it's it's a big journey and
and and for us it started with our
sustainability champions course that
we had took wins that Katie well you
would that have been. Is it 2018 or 19?
(04:00):
There's a couple of years ago now anyway.
Uh, couple of years ago.
Um. So.
So a few of us kind of volunteered um.
And it was an excellent course and it
basically got us to really think about,
you know,
what we were doing with our
learners in the classroom and and
and and got me thinking about is,
(04:20):
is sustainability at the
heart of everything that I do?
Is it a conscious thought that I have
before I make any decision, before I do?
Anything.
And to be fair, it wasn't.
I thought I was really good, but I wasn't.
Yeah.
Because that's not actually how
I've grown up.
That's not the society that I have lived in.
And and and probably it's still not yet,
you know, I want to be there,
(04:42):
but I'm probably still not there yet.
But certainly within my teaching I
was seeing that as an adult and I was
seeing that as something separate and
something that I needed to try and
put in there rather than something
that should be really embodied in what I do.
And actually for my subject, it's so easy.
For me to put it in and really
explicitly and to really go for it,
(05:02):
and because I teach contemporary
dance performance.
So we talk always about dance,
being a vehicle for change,
using your choreographic voice
and really seeing something.
And actually,
I've been quite interested in not
to dismiss our students in any way,
but how little the students had
to say on these areas before.
And so I thought, well,
(05:22):
this is a perfect time for me to use
all the resources and the stimulus
that I'm getting through this
course and put it into practice.
And the students and I was making
an end of year show with them.
And so I thought, right, I'll do this.
So, um, we'd watched, uh, uh, it was.
We were talking about microplastics.
They seen the plastic whale. Um.
So we've started with that as an idea
(05:44):
for inspiration and and what we decided
to do was to just see amongst a group
of 16 of us how much recyclable plastic
we produced in the production process.
So three weeks,
we didn't recycle anything.
But we didn't recycle any of
it through the process.
We just gathered it all together.
Um, we worked looking at we took
(06:06):
Greta Thunberg speech and we made
that's part of our soundtrack and we
worked it physically abusing that.
We worked at making sure that the
production that we created was sustainable.
So we didn't do any of our sort of
runs to Primark to buy costumes,
but instead they all had a budget and went
to a charity shop to buy their costumes.
And and then we explored what it meant to
(06:27):
actually have microplastics coming into our.
System into our food chain and so.
So one of the students was really
big on the idea of trying to sort
of show this within the piece.
So he actually in his own time at home
work with a spinning sugar to create a
plastic bottle which he ate on stage.
(06:47):
We then got all of our plastic
together to form our set and that
made a huge big sort of globe that
we hung from the top of the stage.
So it was like our sort of plastic
planet and and and and they
all danced in their lovely.
Which had a shop costume.
So it was, it was a really,
really nice process.
And through that process,
you know,
we obviously we looked at fast fashion that's
(07:08):
why we decided to buy charity shop costumes.
But we also talked about you know,
they were talking about ohh well,
in this shop you can buy your apples without
having to buy them already bagged up.
And I've been trying to go vegan
and then it's an absolute nightmare.
I think I nearly fainted the other
day because if I can't do it,
you know,
these kind of a side conversations were
happening and in their evaluations
at the end I had lots of really,
(07:30):
really.
Lovely statements about,
you know,
I've been speaking to my family about this,
I've been speaking to my friends about this,
and I know they weren't just
seeing it to please me,
knowing I was going to
read their evaluations.
It did definitely make a difference,
but I was actually talking to Katie
earlier this morning about this.
Because at the end we came back
together and we all shared
the projects that we've done.
And I was speaking to the UM
(07:52):
sustainability group that I was with
and I was seeing the project and
one of the lecturers said Ohh,
I would really like to see that piece.
And I was like, ohh, yeah.
I said my students would have
really liked to see that.
If my students had seen somebody
eat a plastic bottle on stage,
they really would have got that notion
of microplastics much more than
some conceptual kind of conversation
(08:12):
that we might have in the classroom.
And I thought, well,
what on Earth was I doing?
I invited the head of buildings
and estates and nobody else.
It was all his friends and family,
and of course they got the message.
But there could have been groups
of students coming to see us.
They could have been lecturers bringing
their group chitto groups to come and see us.
It could have been a lovely sort of time out.
And that collective collaborative
(08:33):
effort is really something that's
going to be really important if we're
going to make a change moving forwards.
So. So that was my initial and sorry,
I just realized I've been,
I've been talking for quite a while there.
That was my initial experience.
That's something fine,
Laura.
I think the first thing comes through
there is kind of real passion.
And I think the second bit that comes
through is just how actually easy it
(08:53):
is in the ripple effect that it does have.
You know the the killing with this,
I'm trying to steal both.
Your funder Thunder is,
it's around awareness, reason.
Quite simply,
that's the purpose of this.
We can't change our people's
decisions but we can raise awareness
which might influence that.
So anyway, I'm going to be quiet.
Katie,
what are your thoughts on
what's your experience?
Because obviously you're involved in science.
(09:13):
Is that right?
And so I'm a science lecturer,
so it's a little bit different in our area.
Um and I do you know and again.
I try and think about it
and how I'm delivering,
but a lot of our delivery is quite
different and theoretical based or
in the lab and we have a big issue
in the lab and because plastic is
so prevalent in in laboratories
(09:36):
for aseptic technique.
And we've had lots of discussions
and actually students saying,
you know, oh, this is terrible.
You know,
we're wasting all of these pets
and pet tips and Petri dishes
and things like that.
And it has been discussed and we have
tried to find ways to reduce that down or,
um, you know,
do less of the same thing.
But there is a,
there's an element where you just have to.
(09:57):
It's difficult.
But one of the subjects I also teach
on the side is with our access group,
I teach communications and to get
further to get into university,
and we do debates.
And so when we were doing this
project that Laura was talking about,
I.
Took that into into the debate
that we were doing,
and I gave them a subject heading that was,
(10:18):
um, by 2025, the medical and scientific
industry could be plastic free.
And ask them to go and
research it and find out.
And it was so interesting and we ended up
where the groups that I'd put actually
separated themselves into more groups
because there was so many tangents to
it and different industries and where
it would work and where it wouldn't.
And and they had ones where people
(10:40):
took it from the general public
point of view to the managers and
the directors of industry and things.
And and then you had NHS and medical versus
other areas and they really took it on.
It was really,
really interesting and I had learned.
Lot through it as well,
but things that you just
never really think about that.
And I think it's been highlighted
this year with the pandemic.
(11:00):
I don't know about anybody else,
but when I went and got vaccinated last week,
I took off my cloth mask and
had to put on a plastic mask.
And then when I left there was
just a bin full of them and they
weren't folded up or tied up.
They were just loose to fly off in the wind,
you know, everywhere.
And I think and gloves and things like that.
It's obviously much worse.
(11:21):
But um.
Things like if you've got diabetes and
you have syringes, they're plastic,
things like that.
There's just it's so difficult for
us to be able to get away from that
and it would take a massive societal
and and policy change much higher
than where we are for that to happen.
Um.
So that was really interesting
and it kind of got loads of
conversations going around that area.
(11:42):
But um.
Additionally in the science
department we actually started having
sustainable and waste advocates
and people that took on a role and
because we in in our campus we have
a separate building over in science.
I don't know we're separated and not sure
why I try not to take it personally.
So please just wear the labs are and stuff.
(12:04):
So we have it quite separate and we
have vending machines and stuff and
there was just you know students
come back with their waste.
It just all went used to go into general
waste bin and there's Chris and stuff.
So we actually.
And me and another lecturer signed up
to a company called Terracycle Um where
you collect things like crisp packets,
sweet wrappers and and cans
and things like that.
(12:24):
Well cans anyway, we could do,
but um like chocolate wrappers,
sweet wrappers, crisp packets and things.
And we make and we got the students
to make their own boxes and
they went into every classroom.
And then at the end of each week
and different students took turns
to collect them up and separate and
organize and package them to send away.
And I think that comes to a really
interesting point from what I've.
(12:45):
Looked at around him and um,
sustainability and building sustainable
campuses and education is that it's not
always just about what's in the curriculum,
it's about the physical environment
that the students are in as
well and raising that awareness.
We've done litter picks and things and
it's really interesting to see the
the how annoyed the students get and
how aware they are when they suddenly
(13:06):
have to pick up other people's waste.
And I think things like that and getting
more groups of students to have to take
that on like it could be an extra.
Unit or something that they have to
do extra curricular because I think
if you could do that and students
have to then pick up the waste,
they wouldn't drop the waste
in the 1st place and and so.
(13:27):
Making changes isn't just about
embedding in the curriculum,
which is obviously really important,
but it's also about raising awareness
through the physical environment,
extracurricular activities and
things like that.
And it's the power of tiny gains.
Again, you know,
like all of these little things.
Like Laura said,
they inspire people to go and
talk to their family.
(13:47):
So with the thousands of students
we have and the thousands of staff,
if they take that wider every year,
that just that grows and that's what we want.
Agree with you.
I think I'm still basing Newcastle
in the freeze down here is
turning a tanker in the time,
you know,
that's kind of what it's like in
terms of to have this monumental
shift that is required.
(14:07):
It is huge.
However, you're absolutely right
there in terms of it's a little gains,
it's awareness raising and I've noticed this,
my daughter who's eight, you know,
and she loved Blue Peter.
It's still going and they're doing
a lot of work in this space as well.
And it that's all it is.
It's just raising awareness and
changing habits and behaviors and
I think that's really interesting.
I know as part of the induction,
Katie you mentioned the SDG's.
(14:28):
In terms of some of those,
some of the different categories or
sections and I think that's probably
useful place to start if you don't mind me,
I'm going to test your knowledge right now.
Ohh no ohh I'm not really.
Ohh, I'd make a reference to someone
that you mentioned at the start because yeah,
right.
It's not just about plastic.
There's different elements
included within this as well.
And I think,
(14:48):
yeah,
and I'll come back to kind of
what I believe might be the
next steps with this shortly.
So yeah.
So remind me just if you don't mind,
Katie, kind of some of the things you
mentioned at the start from the sags,
so you've got climate change.
Poverty or reduction of poverty?
Um, access to education,
access to healthcare.
Think there's like clean water, clean land?
(15:12):
I'm trying to think now.
There's seventeen of them and I.
Um, yeah, everybody was going.
I did find T-shirts with it on the other day.
So I'm gonna buy myself AT shirt
because I found that a few things
that even just inspiring conversations
I wore AT shirt the other day,
that was my, my T-shirt is rubbish.
(15:33):
And it was made from recycled plastic.
And students were like,
that's brilliant, you know?
And it's about also just those
informal random chats that you
have with students who inspire
discussions and talk about fast
fashion and things like that as well.
So I'm going to get myself an
SDG T-shirt and then I might.
Remember them as well.
And again it has become more prevalent
across you know the wider economy.
(15:54):
I saw football shirt that day that
was kind of made fully from recycle
plastic and it was Tottenham's you
know so it's becoming part of the
norm but like you see these are these
are small ones which in one breath
is great but in the same breath it's
it's a bit of a token gesture when in
a football context might be giving
out drinks and plastic glasses you
know so it's it's kind of giving him
one hand thing with the other but
anyway that's kind of come back to
(16:14):
the sector and come back to I guess
my initial myths or misconceptions
already coming put the bed in terms of.
This can be part of our daily
practice in terms of Laura's project,
in terms of kind of your debate,
Katie and I think, yeah,
it's really interesting to.
I guess they'll put it on the radar of
other lectures that up, by the way.
So have you done that within
(16:34):
your college so far?
And how have you done that,
if you don't mind me asking?
Of kind of how you've tried
to raise awareness, um,
with other actors,
even just in your local team or
kind of more broadly across the college?
Tony wants to do that once.
I don't know Laura do you want to
can probably do a bit each there can we.
Yeah a little bit.
Well obviously we had our sustainability
champions course and that was our
(16:55):
initial real catalyst and I think
probably everybody came away from that
and and then sort of um initiated
something within their team is.
However I would say that it's that
experiential process that really has meaning.
So you can talk about a project and
and and I I'm kind of aware of not
wanting to be oh it's Laura who does
that and ticks. That box for us.
(17:17):
So, so there is a bigger shift to happen.
Um,
we have a really nice sort of group
tutor um tile, we call it channel,
which kind of links up to everybody
who's a group tutor and we pop
things on there and seeing with our
sustainable development channel.
And I do notice lecturers picking things up.
So obviously there are lots of other
group tutors in in my department
(17:38):
and I know that things are picked
up from the group tutor or the
Sustainable Development channel
and then she's putting them out to
students like what you doing for?
Earthware. So those kind of opportunities,
we can have those,
what do you call the green nudges?
They're the kind of ways that
I think we're getting. Um,
we're accessing people and supporting people,
but in really soft gentle ways.
(17:58):
So it's just like let's just put
that out there and then staff go,
Oh my God, yeah,
I should mention that to my shoes even,
you know, it's a case of going
this is something that's worth
mentioning to your students.
This is something that's important
to mention to your students.
And I think that's something, you know,
that's really important just generally
as a lecturer for us to always.
Remember is that we're much,
much more than just our subject specialism.
(18:20):
You know we have a a role and responsibility
to these young people and and and
it's a privileged position to be in,
you know to to be there to support them
on this journey and hopefully you know
make it a really positive one that will
stand them in good stead for the future.
And that's about you know,
building people who are there and ready
to take on what the future holds and that
(18:41):
is much more than contemporary dance.
So yeah those little nudges I think
are kind of where we're at just now.
Katie, I don't know if you.
Yeah no I think definitely all
those things there is kind of
more stuff in the pipeline.
So obviously we're although we're dance
and science lecturer our other role is
is learning and teaching mentors um.
(19:01):
And so we have we work within the UM
kind of training pathway and and so.
We're kind of starting to think about
how we embed some of these ideas into
the professional learning delivery that
we do whether that's within the the pathways.
And so I know in our we've got a
program called teach at DNA which is
(19:21):
instead of the PDA and each session
that I did linked to a professional
standard and and so things like
building in a session around the
professional standard for embedding
sustainability and just it's about
inspiring those discussions and
getting people to talk about it
and you know think do you do it.
How could you do it and things and I
know one of the other mentors and I,
(19:42):
we've just started and delivering
some sessions around meta skills and
embedding meta skills and metacognition.
And so we did a we session where
we did a pretend classroom and we
built a session for the lecturer.
So it was really active learning
for them around what we did and
them to go away and go ohh that was
building all these meta skills.
But the task that we gave them was based
(20:02):
on one of the sustainable development
goals about quality education and how
we support that within the college.
Um,
so we're kind of trying to
interweave them almost
subliminally into stuff. Um.
But I'm just about to start as well.
I've just started a site on teams
called the Green Living at DNA.
Now, it's not launched yet for
anybody at DNA who hears me say this.
(20:23):
And but it will be coming,
probably start of the new semester in August,
UM, because we were thinking
about those tiny gains.
And you know, like Laura said,
you try really hard in your own
personal life to be more sustainable
and think about what you're doing,
and none of us are.
Perfect at all, you know,
and it's about those,
those little changes that we make, um.
(20:43):
And So what we thought was it would be
quite nice because within the group shooter,
sustainable channel and
things that we've got,
there's always these little conversations
going on and we thought let's take
it into something else where we can
have it just about sustainability,
but about how we do it at home.
So different categories around like home,
like home life and food and health
(21:06):
and well-being and you know, beauty.
Fashion, um,
offsetting your carbon travel
and things like that.
And just um finding there's so many
websites out there where you know
you can buy things even down to stuff
like um you know your sponge in your
kitchen that can be compostable you know,
and things that people
(21:26):
often don't think about.
So it's about saying well this
is I tried this website.
It was actually really good.
It actually lasted you know because
that's the problem is sometimes you try
these things and they're not very good.
So it's about just we wanted to make
some place where people can share.
You know somewhere that they found that's
really good um on different topics.
But then just get them thinking
because it comes back to that once
(21:48):
we've got the knowledge we can then
do the raising awareness and stuff.
So we want to help people kind
of build their knowledge and and
support them about thinking about
where the stuff that they're doing
in their own home life comes from
because again that's spreads
through communities and and builds.
So,
so that's coming soon as well as a
little side extra more personally
for staff and other curriculum.
(22:10):
I think it's some kind of really
really good ideas there and I
kind of kind of gonna close this
this this down in a minute.
I'm going to give you the final
question now give you some thinking
time on this in terms of just like
think of kind of what you what would
be your your tips or the next steps
for listeners know every college
got their own approaches uh but
for those that are kind of quite
new with this where should they
start but come back that a minute.
I think it's a commitment which
(22:31):
I really like.
The first one is I love the green
nudges you know that's all that comes
back and supports a narrative we
talk run kind of small steps and
and that take The thing is great.
Because yeah, we're not going to be able
to tackle every single thing that we
do within a day and change overnight.
But little bit by little bit
we'll raise awareness both as
colleagues and with students.
And that's great remains of something
(22:53):
that we did probably seven years ago.
We had no pens and no PowerPoint week just
to get teachers to think differently and
that might be a bit excessive full week,
but that type of approach to get people
out of their comfort zone or to think
differently in a different perspective.
And I guess the final point for me on this,
you're absolutely right,
Laura, in the sense of.
Actually we are influenced,
(23:14):
we are influencing the next generation
when people used to kind of you know.
Jewelry can joke with me in the passport
being a teacher and you know the
things that associate can remarks that
can't get passed across the teachers,
you know,
and the holidays and this type of stuff.
I was going to be be quite flipping back
and say I'm teaching the future of the
country but actually we are you know,
(23:34):
we're teaching the next workforce.
But it's not just about that subject content.
It's about teaching them to be
good people doing the right things,
right morals, right behaviors.
And again the phrase that I use
quite a lot of my former college
was actually good daily practice
if we do the right things.
Day by day with our students,
then that will have a significant
effect overtime.
That's both in relation
(23:54):
to our teaching practice,
but as well as in as well as kind of morals,
values and behaviors.
And this is a fundamental element of that.
Which then takes on to the final question.
So for those I've listened to
kind of quite inspired by this,
I guess it might be quite
difficult to think why do I stop?
There's so much here, where do I start?
So Lauren will come to you first.
(24:15):
What do you feel,
what would be your advice in terms
of next steps in terms of where
would someone start with this,
how would they approach kind of with
the pickup or kind of how would they
implement this within that practice?
Yeah,
I think there's loads that you could do.
So to start with,
you could obviously start having
a little Google around so they're
obviously you could be looking at this.
Sustainable development goals and I
think I feel pretty confident that
(24:36):
you're going to find at least one
that immediately resonates with you.
And I do think that that's important,
that it resonates with you,
that it connects to you,
that you feel passionate about it,
that you feel a sense of wanting
to push it forward,
that it doesn't feel like something
that's being imposed on you.
And because enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm.
So if we're enthusiastic,
(24:57):
they'll learners will be too.
However, the flip side could be just
presenting them to the learners like Katie.
She did. And finding what,
you know, really enthusiasts them.
And I guess breaking it down a little bit,
you know, there's, uh, the black
lives matters movement at the moment.
That's massive for the students.
I'm already thinking that might
be the next piece that we do.
But would they know that that could
be connected to the sustainable
(25:17):
development goals? I don't know.
You know, child marriage,
that's something that I'm really
interested in looking at personally.
I'm a mother of four children, 2 girls,
uh, a 13 month old and a a 13 year old.
So that's something that I want to do.
But is that something that
that they want to do?
So there has to be a synergy.
There between, you know,
what really enthuses you as a lecturer.
So, you know, you can give a lot
(25:39):
to and also to the learners.
But yeah, I mean, uh,
students organising for sustainability,
so souls, they have some things up there,
obviously, AUC, extinction,
Rebellion or organization that
I've been in contact with.
And if you want your learners to get out
there and actively involved in things,
they're really great.
You know,
you can just kind of go and do a project,
get out for an afternoon and do something
(26:00):
and like start to get the ball rolling
without any huge commitment, so.
Yeah, I guess that's kind of where
I'd be thinking if I was just starting out,
but looking for some ground to cover.
Great Kitty.
Ohh, Lori,
you've left me now with the.
So I would agree with everything
that Laura has just said.
I think starting out and finding
(26:21):
something that fits for you and
that you're passionate about
is the most important thing.
But again sharing that maybe with the
students and finding space within
the curriculum or the course that
they're doing um to and discussing
with other people who teach on that
course to think right within this
where what could we do and and and
even like you say asking the students
you know what most interests you,
(26:42):
what's going on at the moment and just
talking about the you know there's
so much out there in the world at
the moment going on and the news.
Is there for people to look at
and I think what you said Johnny
a minute ago about, you know,
the future and we're building out the,
you know, our future community,
um,
of adults who are going to run the country.
And and we want to make sure that
(27:02):
they are confident to go and find
information and learn and you know,
take responsibility themselves rather
than us saying this is what I found out,
go and watch this.
You know,
actually giving them that and
saying right where,
where would you take this you know,
and giving them some kind of project.
That they can really delve
into and make their own
and and research and find out about
(27:23):
because they'll let you know they
are great with Google and finding
stuff and watching videos and
YouTube and Ted talks and stuff.
All of that is there.
But I think for a member of.
Yeah for for a lecturer to look at.
Um yeah find something that
interests you and just start small.
Think of something small,
something quite straightforward and
then you know build your confidence
(27:44):
that way and see where it takes you.
Yeah. No I'll totally agree with that.
I just.
What kind of my dealings with
students in the past. Yeah.
Those are two key messages.
You both said that one is engaging learners.
You know, find out what's relevant to them.
What are the no.
And can it get them to kind of
share what they know and and
dispel any missile encouragement,
dispel each others miss.
And the second bit there
is yeah find that hook.
(28:05):
That's always the key.
But it's about I guess my final
message for lectures, listen,
is firstly speak to people in college,
you know,
because I know a lot of college and Scott
are doing some fantastic work in this space.
You know.
So find out what's being done and then.
Certainly.
Trying to think of how you can introduce
this as part of your curriculum,
again, not as a tickbox,
Gloria said,
(28:25):
not as a a shoe and I've got to do this,
but actually helping you make a
fit for purpose and relevance.
And when we step back and
look at our curriculum,
the large majority we can look at
actual there is a natural fit as
my background sport and fitness,
and I'm thinking Jim instructor and
personal trainer qualifications.
There's lots of elements there.
This could be discussed and explored
and it's the same for pretty much
every area where it can be relevant.
(28:46):
So no,
I think that's really interesting
and that's a fantastic conversation.
It's something that.
Only grow in terms of awareness in it.
And I think once the awareness develops,
further innovation terms of approaches
in terms of strategies in terms of
impact will continue to grow there as well.
You know, I think it'd be really
interesting and fascinating.
So thank you both very much for your time.
(29:08):
So yes, Lord,
thank you.
I hope you have a great summer
when it comes and like you say,
enjoy your holiday and rest as
well as the rest of the sector.
And hopefully I can see what our
discussion today has an impact
on until lessons. So thank you.
Aye.
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