January 13, 2023 • 28 mins
In this episode we talk to Hazel Brady, Director at West Lothian College about the approaches taken to Professional Development. The College has introduced West Lothian Wednesdays, protected time for staff development, as part of their offer and Hazel shares what has been learnt along the journey, both in terms of structure and how this is being supported by Learning Champions.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Hello and welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of the podcast is to bring to
the fore some key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss and break down aspects
of practice and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to
integrate these into our daily practice.
Today, I'm delighted to be joined by
Hazel Brady, director for Business,
Creative and Enterprise at
(00:28):
West Lothian College.
And we'll be talking around West Lothian's
approaches to professional development.
So, Hazel, good morning. How are you?
Good morning, Jody. I'm great.
Thank you. And I think the first Test,
did I get your job rule correct,
is that the right title? Yes, it did.
That's absolutely correct.
I know rules often evolve and sometimes
things get added on are things grow, but no.
(00:48):
Well, that's a good start.
So anyway, what we hear talk today really is,
is some of your approaches
professional development,
which I know I kind of really quite,
I'm going to say unique are quite innovative.
So I think the best place to start is there.
So I guess if you don't mind
kicking this off and care telling
us about what they're colleges.
Doing but about the journey
and we'll take it from there.
(01:08):
Yeah, sure. OK. So I can talk him.
Yeah,
I'm director for a faculty of
Business Creative Enterprise,
but I've been given the pleasure of leading
UM some cross college projects and so
took on the role back in August 2020.
And so the starting point really
was the people strategy.
So at the college we have a people
(01:30):
strategy and and really that's a good
starting point because we have a head in
which is learning and development culture.
And this is where all staff have
the opportunity for to further their
learning and development to which the
college invest significantly and the
college offer a range of development
opportunities which is underpinned
by a commitment on time and financial
(01:51):
terms for these to be undertaken so.
We feel as a college that by equipping
staff with the necessary skills
then we would ensure excellence
shouldn't experience and attainment,
and some recent examples would
include we developed and enhanced
induction for new lecturers,
which is separate from our mandatory
training for all new staff.
(02:12):
And we also linked this to
the professional standards.
We introduced a learning champions,
which we'll talk about today and we also
introduced wastefully and Wednesdays.
So the rationale really was about support.
We wanted to do this in a supportive
way and we've learned a lot.
We've advanced the law and learned
so much from when we went into
(02:34):
lockdown in March 2020.
That it was key to ensure that staff were
developed in a really supportive way.
So we also tie in the rationale that
we made these changes into our own
college values which will we have
welcoming to all students at the
centre of everything that we do and
always striving for better.
And also we tied this into
(02:57):
the professional standards.
Wow. So where to start?
No, I just want fantastic from the outset.
And yeah, there's lots of,
I'm going to say keywords and phrases there,
which you would hope to be at
the forefront of, of practice.
And I guess my cynical view sometimes
of kind of my own life experience
to work in different colleges and
sometimes those words are there but
(03:17):
kind of may not be lived and breathed.
But I think it would be useful
to start really,
maybe at the end and work
backwards as to how we got there.
So I know you touched upon
West Lothian Wednesdays.
Well, I think maybe should we start
there and kind of look at kind of
what is that kind of what does that
mean was looking at practice and what.
Yeah, let's chat about that.
Yeah, so we we've talked about this a lot.
(03:39):
We've talked a lot about where
we could carve out some time for
staff to be able to come together
and do professional learning.
And when you talk about things,
it's difficult sometimes to
to get it into action.
And I think because of what
happened in March 2020 where we
were using platforms and you know
we were using Microsoft Teams.
So we already had a great way of bringing.
(04:01):
Back together.
But what we did is we carved out a
Wednesday as the time to be allocated
for professional developments.
That meant that nobody was to be
timetabled on a Wednesday where possible,
and that was a significant chunk
of activity that we made sure that
that students were not timetabled,
which allowed staff to be free
during that time.
So we made it a a slot on a
(04:23):
Wednesday to offer training in 2122.
We were doing it every Wednesday and it
could range from 30 minutes to 60 minutes.
And they what we've done based
on student they staff feedback as
we now do every three Wednesdays,
so every third week we do the the
training is still mandatory and what
we do is we we have a mix of external
(04:47):
agencies and we also have some staff
that come and do different training
sessions on that Wednesday too.
So it's peer-to-peer support that we
offer and the training is you know
certainly based on the staff feedback
it was really important that we had.
Voice about how regular we had them how long
it could be and then what the content was.
(05:07):
So that's really what we're
awareness is that about?
No that's great.
I'm going to ask really specific
question typically what time on
Wednesday does this take place.
I know other people we think look at times
as well how do how do we make it fit.
So typically kind of went on a
Wednesday or has that taken place or
has that evolved is at the same time.
So we now have them from 4:00
PM to 4:30
that's 30 minutes is protected and
(05:28):
what we do is there are sometimes we
need a bit longer and what we do is we.
Time to plan the sessions
across the whole year. Yeah.
And by by doing that then we can
try and offer students alternatives
and we can do that better.
Now again since, you know,
we've learned so much about a blended
approach to learning and teaching,
so we can say,
so in a good example was we had little
(05:50):
iceberg here just before our October
break and we needed a bigger chunk of time.
30 minutes wasn't going to be
enough and we offered a workshop
to staff during that period.
So we needed to sort of protect a
little bit more than 30 minutes.
But the general.
General plan for the heat is to
do 30 minutes every three weeks.
That's really interesting.
And you touched upon that was
(06:10):
shaped by staff.
So you mentioned in previous years or
last year that was every week, um.
So the idea was it was that kind
of too much of a burden on staff
in terms of not burden.
Maybe the wrong phrase.
Was it kind of too much of a
commitment sometimes in terms of
impinging on the student experience?
I kind of what the thoughts are
rationales for changing maybe
from the every week to every other
(06:33):
week or every third week.
Those two reasons we were we were
driving forward a sustainability Dr.
which meant that we were only
going to open the campus in the
evening on a Tuesday or Thursday.
So we used to open Monday to
Thursday 6 till nine we were all.
So we really changed our timetables,
you know,
quite drastically from the year before
when they were available every Wednesday.
(06:53):
That's when it became a bit more of
a challenge how do we free up a full
afternoon and we've already cut down to you.
So that was that was part of the
reason but it was about staff feedback.
We asked them you know what days.
What times,
how frequent and we we took the staff
feedback to ensure that we were
offering training that was relevant
to them and that everybody had a
(07:14):
say in that as well about the content,
what,
what sort of things that we should
be offering.
No,
I think that's really interesting
and I'm gonna say probably one
of the most difficult questions
answer what's been the impact of
this of kind of this protected use
the word protected before.
What's been the impact of that
protected time uh on staff or
on student experience that you
(07:34):
can try and put your fingers on
because quite hard to.
To get some tangibles in this case.
I think the the the biggest thing
for us is about the student
experience you know so we we get
the student voice through our
various you know various ways and
through we have sparkle,
we do you know a student
feedback the students come
to our course team meeting.
(07:56):
So it's student feedback that's
really important for us to to make
sure that it's having an impact.
Pi is not always the the best indication
that we are seeing improvement there
as well but I suppose the biggest thing
is about the support that we have for
staff for each other. Um, you know,
because it can be quite a lonely job,
especially if you're new lecturer,
you're brand new to this.
(08:16):
It can be really lonely.
So we, we really wanted to think about
how could we do this supportively.
So, you know,
less of their lenses is just a part of that.
There's a whole load of changes
that we've made to ensure that
we support each other because we
need to be able to collaborate,
we need to learn from each other.
And also it's the peer-to-peer support
that we give during these sessions
(08:38):
because that's much more impactful,
you know, than sending somebody.
Of course they've got to sit online for
half an hour and do something that's
actually allows people to have conversation,
ask questions, um, you know,
so go back and watch them.
We record the lessons so,
so we can go back and watch them.
If you're not sure,
you can go back and watch it again.
So there's there's a whole load of things
(08:58):
that we can see in terms of the impact.
It's a really positive way to approach
learning and development for staff.
I think that's fascinating that
and I totally agree with you.
And yeah,
I'm keen just to explore that
a little bit more in terms of
that peer-to-peer support.
I guess,
again,
other questions people may have as well,
what sort of sessions are offered to staff or
what sort of things happen within this time.
(09:19):
So you have to kind of share anymore,
uh,
different examples of some of the
things that may have happened, um,
within the West Lothian Wednesdays?
Yeah,
I mean the the there's been lots of
as I mentioned earlier we have you
know external agencies that come.
So that's really important.
That's the real sort of training part.
So we've had you know smile counseling,
we've had education Scotland, we've had GCS.
(09:41):
So it's really helping prepare us and
as a as a college for GCS registration.
So there's been a whole lot of
things that have come externally,
but internally you know we do a
lot of sessions about quality,
so quality improvement,
um professional standards or
values or college.
Values and behaviors there's a
number of sessions that go on
(10:01):
during that period but I think
less so than Wednesdays is,
is,
is very much a focused half an hour
that that we we try and carve out
across the year that is suitable for
all staff for all delivery staff and
that's just a that's just one bit of it.
But we're we we're really
proud because we've we've we've
been successful in carving out
(10:22):
that time and also getting
the commitment from staff to attend
because you know it's very easy to see.
Well, we'll put them on but then
if nobody comes, what's the point?
So we have you know hundreds of
staff that are coming every week,
every three weeks to these sessions.
And so there's commitment on both
sides to to improve learning and
(10:42):
development and professional training
which ties in really nicely with
GCS and the professional update.
So and and that's a little bit of a
suppose expanded on that is the lemon
champions which we'll probably talk
about today as well and that's really
key in terms of the peer-to-peer support.
It's given. Absolutely.
I I think you've kind of stole
my fun and stole my script.
(11:03):
Yes.
To learn champions is exactly where
I was going next in terms of support.
So yeah, often initiatives like this
are are quite difficult to put in
place and to have an impact and.
And it's again my cynical hat on for myself,
being a College in the past is it's
one thing soon as a lot of training,
it's another thing,
then contextualize that into your own
(11:23):
world and reflecting and so on and so forth.
And I agree that kind of support
there is kind of really fundamental.
So you've touched upon learning champions.
Can you tell us a little bit
what kind of what they are,
what they look like and what their rules are?
Yeah, so the land champions,
we,
we,
we did a lot of work during COVID
and and we created a team which was
specifically for digital upscale and
(11:43):
that was more about that was a learning
continuity support team and that was really,
really specific to the
digital upscaling of staff,
especially during that crucial time.
But what that group did is they
were tasked with also coming up
with recommendations and they came
up with a number of recommendations
and one of those recommendations
were learning champions because.
(12:05):
There was a gap there to really
support particularly new staff about
you know when you come in took a
college you've never been like you've
never taught before how do you pull
things together so learning champions
were brought about to really improve
pedagogical approaches but but it's
(12:25):
it's it's become more than new staff
it's for all staff you know it's
all staff so learning champions are
the focus is really at the early
stages of an academic year on our.
Do stuff and helping them to,
you know, how do you prepare a lesson?
How do you plan for 12 weeks?
What are your challenges?
If you've got, you know,
behavioural challenges, it's everything.
(12:46):
It can be a little bit of quality in there.
How do what does,
where does quality work?
How does that tie in?
But it's really about supporting staff
with their approaches to learning,
teaching and assessment.
And then they're great because they can
then direct them to the other resources,
which are quite new to us,
for example in technologists.
They can really start to
(13:06):
enhance their learning.
Teaching and assessment.
But what we've also done is we have.
Stopped the lesson observations in
their traditional sense and we've
created professional discussion.
So all staff now, um.
They, they don't all have a, you know,
somebody comes into their class and
does the traditional observation.
(13:26):
What we do now is we get all staff to
record something, um, from a lesson.
They then upload that lesson.
They do their own professional
sort of reflection and then we
sample a third across the year.
So it's not everybody,
but everybody has to still do the,
the actual, you know,
do their own record and do
their professional reflection,
(13:47):
get their student feedback and
then they'll be sampled and
it's still learning champions.
Do the sample.
It's not a manager,
it's done by the Latin champion.
So that's the peer-to-peer support,
which is so important because they
are in the classes themselves.
11 Champions have been given
some remitted time,
but they are remitted lecturer posts
and so they're there every day.
They're having the challenges with students.
(14:08):
They understand, you know,
the challenges with you know, attainment,
retention, all of these things.
And then how do you make
your lessons engaging?
How do you still keep up with
technology to maybe enhance that?
How do you reduce assessment?
And there's a whole lot of
things that come with that.
So the LERYN champions are really busy,
are really busy role.
(14:28):
It's such a brilliant role to have
in our college and that peer-to-peer
support is is definitely welcomed by staff,
particularly new staff.
Not that all sounds great tasting
and I would totally agree in the
learning champions how long have they
been um as part of your structure
or is that just a recent thing and
it can last couple months is that
maybe yeah past how long have you
(14:49):
had those rules as part of your so
we've had them just for This Is Us
going into the second year of having them.
So this is and what we've done is
we've really we've given them a remit.
So we've been really clear about what
is their role because if you could
imagine there's a learning champion
comes in they could be asked to do.
And things,
but we've been really clear about what
(15:10):
their remit and it's really about
Pensacola approaches and helping staff to,
you know,
gain confidence and being creative and
innovative and to try things out as well.
And that's where the,
the professional discussion
works really well because we're
really encouraging staff not to
always send in their base,
sometimes sending the challenges.
And when you're working with your peers,
(15:32):
those conversations are.
Are easier to have because you're not.
You're not feeling that it's part of,
you know.
Yeah,
professional learning discussion
that happens every year.
It's really not,
it's not the learning skills managers that
are doing this, it's it's your peers
and it's a great opportunity to get
staff out of their departments who
(15:52):
are learning champions are arranged
range across all of the faculties.
So we've got some great examples
of one of the business lectures
had gone over to engineering.
We've got another lecturer from business
who's going out into the forest classroom.
When would they ever have
had that opportunity?
And now what they do is they bring it back
to their own practice and they think.
(16:13):
I could do something outdoor learning.
So you know they're learning from from,
from each other.
So it's it's a real it's a
really great model to have.
We're very lucky to have it in the college
and it's very new but we'd like more
learning champions if that was possible.
I would totally agree and I've been
fortunate in previous role where I
introduced it was a large college,
(16:34):
but I think it was seven FT of of teaching
and learning coaches for exactly that reason.
They were peers,
they were colleagues who were um,
strong and confident in
learning and teaching.
And their role was exactly as you've said
is they had currency because they were
still practicing extras and they would
go out there and support their peers.
And for me the key bit is.
(16:54):
When observing or when can engaging
with peers across a college,
you pick up so much information
and it's really important to try
and share that across the board
as you just alluded to there.
And these individuals have got
that real opportunity to do that.
But from a critical friend support of
perspective and it's really important
and whilst we want and maybe expect
our managers to be able to do that
sometimes it's a different relationship.
(17:15):
So I think it's absolutely vital role
to try and help break down any myths or
dispell any any kind of negatives around.
Sorry, carry on.
Uh, I was going to say was the
Lennon champions are,
you know, they apply for this,
they don't,
they don't own head hunt anybody.
They are they have to go through an
application process and part of that
(17:35):
process is you know what what could you
bring to the table as a learning champion,
what what innovative practices
have you got that you could share.
And so that that's our application process,
we remove their name.
So there's,
you know,
it's really done on the basis
of the questions that are
asked and that application.
So airline and champions are you know,
they're all on board.
Based on the great practice that
(17:56):
they're already doing so is you you
mentioned about you know really strong
really confident in their learning and
teaching and they're really keen to
impart their knowledge with others.
But the the professional
discussions was quite new.
We we we introduced that
quite late last year.
So this is our first year of doing
it as you know across the full
academic year because we were
(18:16):
we're trying to think about how do
we do it differently because we had
such a lot of classes you know some
were on site some were were not.
So how do we do the traditional observation.
And so we we made a significant
change to that. Education Scotland,
we're happy with that change and staff are
are really engaging in that process as well.
No, that sounds fantastic.
(18:38):
I know other colleges have, uh,
similar rules in place, whether they
be named mentors or different titles.
But going back to those roles,
I think it's really important as well.
That's from my experience.
Again, I'm going to say a significant
proportion of individuals in those
roles that helps make them more
rounded and helps them progress the
next stage of their career if that's
what they wish to do so or they
take that back into the election.
(18:59):
So I think it's kind of a win,
win for all because it's more more people
to talk about learning and teaching that.
Improve learning and
teaching everybody wants to,
but there are a lot of things that
attains that detract from manager's
ability to be able to do that because
of processes and so on and so forth.
So I'm just really important.
But no, that's fascinating.
And I think really what I'm keen to
(19:20):
when picking up is kind of coming
towards the end of the podcast is
you've done a lot of the hard work,
you've done a lot of legwork already.
What advice do you have for other
colleges that may be looking
to introduce a similar model,
whether that be learning champions or
whether that be the protected time?
What are your thoughts or ideas?
If you can kind of share some of
the bits that you've learned,
that'd be great.
(19:41):
Um, of lambos? Lots and lots.
I think they they.
Biggest thing is you need to really
think about you know who's at the
top of the tree and it's really
important that you get there buying.
And we've been really lucky at
Wesleyan College, our our executive,
we just leadership team have been
so supportive of you know ideas,
suggestions that we've made,
really passionate about
(20:02):
learning and teaching.
Really understand everything that that comes
with that and how challenging it can be.
You know for for new lectures but
also for lectures that are experienced
they they they hit challenges.
So the biggest thing for me
is about getting the buy in.
And don't be frightened
to share those changes.
They might, you know, you can share them.
And they might. People might say that.
That doesn't sound right.
(20:23):
Keep going.
Keep talking about it.
You know get get groups of people as
well that work together so they can
continue to support team during our
group together that's cross college,
be confident to do that.
So we have you know in learning
continues which team there's we have
somebody from digital infrastructure
quality and the key thing in there is
we did ask for the linen development
Officer from HR to be part of that as well.
(20:46):
So there's a real crossover and then
that crosses over to everything.
So Lemon champions feed into
learning continuity,
everything's all threading
through really nicely.
Um,
but the the biggest thing is the buy
in and and Sarah Jane Lintons are you
know our VP here is you know she is.
The VP for in attainment and and
it's Sarah Jane that's driven
(21:07):
forward the success of the Wesleyan
wedding season you know she's really
listened to to what we need and
and really help to to find a way
to carve that out because to to
change a timetable significantly
like that needs great leadership.
So I think for us it's definitely
from the top and it's across college
(21:27):
approach it's involving cross college
people that you know and and then
back down to the end champions.
Bringing in other other staff who
are confident in learning and
teaching and really,
really keen to share their, their practice.
And you know, we can't,
we can't do this job on our own.
We can't do it in silos.
We have to keep collaborating
with each other.
(21:47):
And so I suppose for me,
you know,
even next steps is we need to look
at how we can do this with other
colleges because we're doing it really
well in our college across the faculties.
How can we do it across colleges?
That would be really impactful to
be able to start doing more of that.
But yeah, go to the top.
Speak to them, share your ideas,
get their buy and have really
(22:08):
robust presentations.
You know the when you take the ideas
to the teams and um, but yeah,
it's definitely from the top.
We've had great support
with the with all of this.
No, great, thanks. Yes, I'm keen.
Just unpick there in terms of
the wider workforce, you know,
lecturers who may have been used to
working in a certain way or maybe
didn't want change that entails.
How did he get their buy in or kind of
(22:28):
how did you not convince, But yeah,
kind of what steps were taken or how
did that journey look to try and
get that kind of wider engagement?
It wasn't easy.
I never asked when you're, you know,
not everybody adapts to change really well.
So it wasn't easy, but it's,
it's you know, again it's back to the top.
It's the leadership and then it's the
leadership that filters down and it's
(22:48):
it's it's trying to get the buy in
because it's a good thing and you know,
it's not,
it's not for the sake of it's really
to help people understand why we're
doing it and so that they can see the
the the vision and the bigger picture
and understand who it's all fitting in.
So I think I think we've done a lot
of work as a college on our values.
And behaviors and those values
(23:08):
that I mentioned at the beginning,
it's, you know,
reminding staff of our values and
and especially where we put students
at the centre and then tying into
our professional standards.
Um. I don't know. I think.
I think for everybody.
It can be difficult to change,
but we've had staff at whistle and
(23:30):
college have really made this change.
And there there's been a few things of
not pushed back I don't think that's
the right word of questions and why
and and but it's having the answers
and then it's back to that vision.
It's really sharing the vision
and the learning skills.
Managers who work really closely
with directors they're really
close to the teaching team.
So it's helping them leave their
(23:51):
meetings at team meetings and and taking
their team through this change but
yeah so be prepared for some pushback
and but but if you have an idea go
for it try it and we've tried it.
And and the first year we were you
know we did it and we've changed
it even already in the second year
but we've still carved out that
protected time to ensure that we
(24:12):
can find a place for staff to come
together in a a dash actually said
Jane she's she's she she has you
know really really helps support us
to take this forward and I asked
her for a quote because I said
there was doing this podcast today
but you know she had said about.
You know,
developing a great respect and
understanding for each other as staff
pass on breadth of knowledge and
(24:33):
support to students where everybody
wins and that that says it all really.
I think that's, yeah,
that does it all.
And that's come through in
every conversation you've had is
actually, it's not a standalone process
put in place. It's not a new idea.
It's part of the wider pitch and the
wider ethos around putting students
at the heart of everything you do.
And as we all know, effective teaching
practice underpins large parts of that.
(24:54):
And it's part of that wider ecology ethos,
no. So I think it's fantastic.
And yeah, I totally agree with you.
Again, from my experience,
it's not an easy journey because everyone
has their own perspective as to how
they want to learn or some people don't
want change and so on and so forth.
And again, I'd also echo the
point as one of the key points is
it's about there's two really.
One is communicating that clearly
(25:15):
to to the whole workforce,
so everyone understands what we're doing
and why we're doing it, absolutely.
And secondly,
equally importantly,
it's getting the right people as those
learning champions that understand learning,
learning teaching and can then
translate that across to the wider
masses in many different ways.
So now I think that's fantastic.
I think it's really interesting
and I'm going to see the final bit
(25:37):
I'm going to chip on is I'm sure.
You're aware but Somalis may not
be is that it said we're engaging
snacks and research on professional
learning to try and look at how
professional learning is being
delivered across the college sector.
Exactly for that reason as you've
touched upon to try and encourage,
enable,
allow for greater collaboration
across colleges because.
(25:58):
Again, in a really simplistic term,
in my head,
if then we discover or discover rather
that 5 colleges have a same model.
Well actually it might be that
those five codes may say,
well why don't we all try and
get a similar time because then
that may allow for some cross
pollination twice a year or so.
Doesn't have to be.
But if the if if strategy is already
in place then it may allow for that.
(26:19):
You know so.
But also the purpose of that is to
allow other colors to understand
different models in place and think,
oh actually that sounds great,
let's learn a bit more how
can we implement something.
Have to work for our workforce,
so I think that's really interesting.
And yeah there's a there's a lot
of unpicked then and we've been
talking for nearly half an hour
and and and times flown by we
talk for another half an hour,
(26:39):
another hour about all of those things.
But what country keeping this
podcast relatively short.
So before we come to a close here
is there anything else from you
either one final thing for people
to consider or kind of final bit
of learning from you that you kind
of think would be useful to share?
For me,
collaboration is really important
and we don't do it enough within
(27:01):
our own colleges.
So if we can do more of that and you know,
we're doing this much,
we're starting to really increase the
amount of collaboration across
the faculties, across staff,
bringing different groups of people
together to lead on projects.
The pace of which we've done
that has been really fast and
(27:22):
really successful, so I think.
If all colleges could do more of that and
are confident enough to do that, then.
We might even improve the cross
collaborative approach across our colleges.
We need to bring our, you know,
our teams out of their departments
first and we've certainly made
a huge step forward with that.
And if we can do that across the colleges,
(27:44):
I think it would really give us
a collaborative approach to.
To do so much more together.
I think it's a really good final point
even though I kind of made you think,
I think it's absolutely fantastic.
Absolutely spot on.
And I guess the final punk from me I'm
gonna reflect on a former colleague of mine.
Whenever something new was introduced
he said well what do we not do.
And again I would urge and this is
(28:05):
actually what do you do that actually
you don't need to do that could free
up a protect time for conversations
like this on issues like like this
to take place within your college to
aid that collaboration that you've
just mentioned there. So here's all.
Thank you very much friend.
Once to kind of find out more,
feel free to get in touch with
his own colleagues. West Lothian.
But here's what thank you very much
for your time. Thank you for having me.
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
(28:31):
About.
Hello and welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of the podcast is to bring to
the fore some key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss and break down aspects
of practice and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to
integrate these into our daily practice.
Today, I'm delighted to be joined by
Hazel Brady, director for Business,
Creative and Enterprise at
(00:28):
West Lothian College.
And we'll be talking around West Lothian's
approaches to professional development.
So, Hazel, good morning. How are you?
Good morning, Jody. I'm great.
Thank you. And I think the first Test,
did I get your job rule correct,
is that the right title? Yes, it did.
That's absolutely correct.
I know rules often evolve and sometimes
things get added on are things grow, but no.
(00:48):
Well, that's a good start.
So anyway, what we hear talk today really is,
is some of your approaches
professional development,
which I know I kind of really quite,
I'm going to say unique are quite innovative.
So I think the best place to start is there.
So I guess if you don't mind
kicking this off and care telling
us about what they're colleges.
Doing but about the journey
and we'll take it from there.
(01:08):
Yeah, sure. OK. So I can talk him.
Yeah,
I'm director for a faculty of
Business Creative Enterprise,
but I've been given the pleasure of leading
UM some cross college projects and so
took on the role back in August 2020.
And so the starting point really
was the people strategy.
So at the college we have a people
(01:30):
strategy and and really that's a good
starting point because we have a head in
which is learning and development culture.
And this is where all staff have
the opportunity for to further their
learning and development to which the
college invest significantly and the
college offer a range of development
opportunities which is underpinned
by a commitment on time and financial
(01:51):
terms for these to be undertaken so.
We feel as a college that by equipping
staff with the necessary skills
then we would ensure excellence
shouldn't experience and attainment,
and some recent examples would
include we developed and enhanced
induction for new lecturers,
which is separate from our mandatory
training for all new staff.
(02:12):
And we also linked this to
the professional standards.
We introduced a learning champions,
which we'll talk about today and we also
introduced wastefully and Wednesdays.
So the rationale really was about support.
We wanted to do this in a supportive
way and we've learned a lot.
We've advanced the law and learned
so much from when we went into
(02:34):
lockdown in March 2020.
That it was key to ensure that staff were
developed in a really supportive way.
So we also tie in the rationale that
we made these changes into our own
college values which will we have
welcoming to all students at the
centre of everything that we do and
always striving for better.
And also we tied this into
(02:57):
the professional standards.
Wow. So where to start?
No, I just want fantastic from the outset.
And yeah, there's lots of,
I'm going to say keywords and phrases there,
which you would hope to be at
the forefront of, of practice.
And I guess my cynical view sometimes
of kind of my own life experience
to work in different colleges and
sometimes those words are there but
(03:17):
kind of may not be lived and breathed.
But I think it would be useful
to start really,
maybe at the end and work
backwards as to how we got there.
So I know you touched upon
West Lothian Wednesdays.
Well, I think maybe should we start
there and kind of look at kind of
what is that kind of what does that
mean was looking at practice and what.
Yeah, let's chat about that.
Yeah, so we we've talked about this a lot.
(03:39):
We've talked a lot about where
we could carve out some time for
staff to be able to come together
and do professional learning.
And when you talk about things,
it's difficult sometimes to
to get it into action.
And I think because of what
happened in March 2020 where we
were using platforms and you know
we were using Microsoft Teams.
So we already had a great way of bringing.
(04:01):
Back together.
But what we did is we carved out a
Wednesday as the time to be allocated
for professional developments.
That meant that nobody was to be
timetabled on a Wednesday where possible,
and that was a significant chunk
of activity that we made sure that
that students were not timetabled,
which allowed staff to be free
during that time.
So we made it a a slot on a
(04:23):
Wednesday to offer training in 2122.
We were doing it every Wednesday and it
could range from 30 minutes to 60 minutes.
And they what we've done based
on student they staff feedback as
we now do every three Wednesdays,
so every third week we do the the
training is still mandatory and what
we do is we we have a mix of external
(04:47):
agencies and we also have some staff
that come and do different training
sessions on that Wednesday too.
So it's peer-to-peer support that we
offer and the training is you know
certainly based on the staff feedback
it was really important that we had.
Voice about how regular we had them how long
it could be and then what the content was.
(05:07):
So that's really what we're
awareness is that about?
No that's great.
I'm going to ask really specific
question typically what time on
Wednesday does this take place.
I know other people we think look at times
as well how do how do we make it fit.
So typically kind of went on a
Wednesday or has that taken place or
has that evolved is at the same time.
So we now have them from 4:00
PM to 4:30
that's 30 minutes is protected and
(05:28):
what we do is there are sometimes we
need a bit longer and what we do is we.
Time to plan the sessions
across the whole year. Yeah.
And by by doing that then we can
try and offer students alternatives
and we can do that better.
Now again since, you know,
we've learned so much about a blended
approach to learning and teaching,
so we can say,
so in a good example was we had little
(05:50):
iceberg here just before our October
break and we needed a bigger chunk of time.
30 minutes wasn't going to be
enough and we offered a workshop
to staff during that period.
So we needed to sort of protect a
little bit more than 30 minutes.
But the general.
General plan for the heat is to
do 30 minutes every three weeks.
That's really interesting.
And you touched upon that was
(06:10):
shaped by staff.
So you mentioned in previous years or
last year that was every week, um.
So the idea was it was that kind
of too much of a burden on staff
in terms of not burden.
Maybe the wrong phrase.
Was it kind of too much of a
commitment sometimes in terms of
impinging on the student experience?
I kind of what the thoughts are
rationales for changing maybe
from the every week to every other
(06:33):
week or every third week.
Those two reasons we were we were
driving forward a sustainability Dr.
which meant that we were only
going to open the campus in the
evening on a Tuesday or Thursday.
So we used to open Monday to
Thursday 6 till nine we were all.
So we really changed our timetables,
you know,
quite drastically from the year before
when they were available every Wednesday.
(06:53):
That's when it became a bit more of
a challenge how do we free up a full
afternoon and we've already cut down to you.
So that was that was part of the
reason but it was about staff feedback.
We asked them you know what days.
What times,
how frequent and we we took the staff
feedback to ensure that we were
offering training that was relevant
to them and that everybody had a
(07:14):
say in that as well about the content,
what,
what sort of things that we should
be offering.
No,
I think that's really interesting
and I'm gonna say probably one
of the most difficult questions
answer what's been the impact of
this of kind of this protected use
the word protected before.
What's been the impact of that
protected time uh on staff or
on student experience that you
(07:34):
can try and put your fingers on
because quite hard to.
To get some tangibles in this case.
I think the the the biggest thing
for us is about the student
experience you know so we we get
the student voice through our
various you know various ways and
through we have sparkle,
we do you know a student
feedback the students come
to our course team meeting.
(07:56):
So it's student feedback that's
really important for us to to make
sure that it's having an impact.
Pi is not always the the best indication
that we are seeing improvement there
as well but I suppose the biggest thing
is about the support that we have for
staff for each other. Um, you know,
because it can be quite a lonely job,
especially if you're new lecturer,
you're brand new to this.
(08:16):
It can be really lonely.
So we, we really wanted to think about
how could we do this supportively.
So, you know,
less of their lenses is just a part of that.
There's a whole load of changes
that we've made to ensure that
we support each other because we
need to be able to collaborate,
we need to learn from each other.
And also it's the peer-to-peer support
that we give during these sessions
(08:38):
because that's much more impactful,
you know, than sending somebody.
Of course they've got to sit online for
half an hour and do something that's
actually allows people to have conversation,
ask questions, um, you know,
so go back and watch them.
We record the lessons so,
so we can go back and watch them.
If you're not sure,
you can go back and watch it again.
So there's there's a whole load of things
(08:58):
that we can see in terms of the impact.
It's a really positive way to approach
learning and development for staff.
I think that's fascinating that
and I totally agree with you.
And yeah,
I'm keen just to explore that
a little bit more in terms of
that peer-to-peer support.
I guess,
again,
other questions people may have as well,
what sort of sessions are offered to staff or
what sort of things happen within this time.
(09:19):
So you have to kind of share anymore,
uh,
different examples of some of the
things that may have happened, um,
within the West Lothian Wednesdays?
Yeah,
I mean the the there's been lots of
as I mentioned earlier we have you
know external agencies that come.
So that's really important.
That's the real sort of training part.
So we've had you know smile counseling,
we've had education Scotland, we've had GCS.
(09:41):
So it's really helping prepare us and
as a as a college for GCS registration.
So there's been a whole lot of
things that have come externally,
but internally you know we do a
lot of sessions about quality,
so quality improvement,
um professional standards or
values or college.
Values and behaviors there's a
number of sessions that go on
(10:01):
during that period but I think
less so than Wednesdays is,
is,
is very much a focused half an hour
that that we we try and carve out
across the year that is suitable for
all staff for all delivery staff and
that's just a that's just one bit of it.
But we're we we're really
proud because we've we've we've
been successful in carving out
(10:22):
that time and also getting
the commitment from staff to attend
because you know it's very easy to see.
Well, we'll put them on but then
if nobody comes, what's the point?
So we have you know hundreds of
staff that are coming every week,
every three weeks to these sessions.
And so there's commitment on both
sides to to improve learning and
(10:42):
development and professional training
which ties in really nicely with
GCS and the professional update.
So and and that's a little bit of a
suppose expanded on that is the lemon
champions which we'll probably talk
about today as well and that's really
key in terms of the peer-to-peer support.
It's given. Absolutely.
I I think you've kind of stole
my fun and stole my script.
(11:03):
Yes.
To learn champions is exactly where
I was going next in terms of support.
So yeah, often initiatives like this
are are quite difficult to put in
place and to have an impact and.
And it's again my cynical hat on for myself,
being a College in the past is it's
one thing soon as a lot of training,
it's another thing,
then contextualize that into your own
(11:23):
world and reflecting and so on and so forth.
And I agree that kind of support
there is kind of really fundamental.
So you've touched upon learning champions.
Can you tell us a little bit
what kind of what they are,
what they look like and what their rules are?
Yeah, so the land champions,
we,
we,
we did a lot of work during COVID
and and we created a team which was
specifically for digital upscale and
(11:43):
that was more about that was a learning
continuity support team and that was really,
really specific to the
digital upscaling of staff,
especially during that crucial time.
But what that group did is they
were tasked with also coming up
with recommendations and they came
up with a number of recommendations
and one of those recommendations
were learning champions because.
(12:05):
There was a gap there to really
support particularly new staff about
you know when you come in took a
college you've never been like you've
never taught before how do you pull
things together so learning champions
were brought about to really improve
pedagogical approaches but but it's
(12:25):
it's it's become more than new staff
it's for all staff you know it's
all staff so learning champions are
the focus is really at the early
stages of an academic year on our.
Do stuff and helping them to,
you know, how do you prepare a lesson?
How do you plan for 12 weeks?
What are your challenges?
If you've got, you know,
behavioural challenges, it's everything.
(12:46):
It can be a little bit of quality in there.
How do what does,
where does quality work?
How does that tie in?
But it's really about supporting staff
with their approaches to learning,
teaching and assessment.
And then they're great because they can
then direct them to the other resources,
which are quite new to us,
for example in technologists.
They can really start to
(13:06):
enhance their learning.
Teaching and assessment.
But what we've also done is we have.
Stopped the lesson observations in
their traditional sense and we've
created professional discussion.
So all staff now, um.
They, they don't all have a, you know,
somebody comes into their class and
does the traditional observation.
(13:26):
What we do now is we get all staff to
record something, um, from a lesson.
They then upload that lesson.
They do their own professional
sort of reflection and then we
sample a third across the year.
So it's not everybody,
but everybody has to still do the,
the actual, you know,
do their own record and do
their professional reflection,
(13:47):
get their student feedback and
then they'll be sampled and
it's still learning champions.
Do the sample.
It's not a manager,
it's done by the Latin champion.
So that's the peer-to-peer support,
which is so important because they
are in the classes themselves.
11 Champions have been given
some remitted time,
but they are remitted lecturer posts
and so they're there every day.
They're having the challenges with students.
(14:08):
They understand, you know,
the challenges with you know, attainment,
retention, all of these things.
And then how do you make
your lessons engaging?
How do you still keep up with
technology to maybe enhance that?
How do you reduce assessment?
And there's a whole lot of
things that come with that.
So the LERYN champions are really busy,
are really busy role.
(14:28):
It's such a brilliant role to have
in our college and that peer-to-peer
support is is definitely welcomed by staff,
particularly new staff.
Not that all sounds great tasting
and I would totally agree in the
learning champions how long have they
been um as part of your structure
or is that just a recent thing and
it can last couple months is that
maybe yeah past how long have you
(14:49):
had those rules as part of your so
we've had them just for This Is Us
going into the second year of having them.
So this is and what we've done is
we've really we've given them a remit.
So we've been really clear about what
is their role because if you could
imagine there's a learning champion
comes in they could be asked to do.
And things,
but we've been really clear about what
(15:10):
their remit and it's really about
Pensacola approaches and helping staff to,
you know,
gain confidence and being creative and
innovative and to try things out as well.
And that's where the,
the professional discussion
works really well because we're
really encouraging staff not to
always send in their base,
sometimes sending the challenges.
And when you're working with your peers,
(15:32):
those conversations are.
Are easier to have because you're not.
You're not feeling that it's part of,
you know.
Yeah,
professional learning discussion
that happens every year.
It's really not,
it's not the learning skills managers that
are doing this, it's it's your peers
and it's a great opportunity to get
staff out of their departments who
(15:52):
are learning champions are arranged
range across all of the faculties.
So we've got some great examples
of one of the business lectures
had gone over to engineering.
We've got another lecturer from business
who's going out into the forest classroom.
When would they ever have
had that opportunity?
And now what they do is they bring it back
to their own practice and they think.
(16:13):
I could do something outdoor learning.
So you know they're learning from from,
from each other.
So it's it's a real it's a
really great model to have.
We're very lucky to have it in the college
and it's very new but we'd like more
learning champions if that was possible.
I would totally agree and I've been
fortunate in previous role where I
introduced it was a large college,
(16:34):
but I think it was seven FT of of teaching
and learning coaches for exactly that reason.
They were peers,
they were colleagues who were um,
strong and confident in
learning and teaching.
And their role was exactly as you've said
is they had currency because they were
still practicing extras and they would
go out there and support their peers.
And for me the key bit is.
(16:54):
When observing or when can engaging
with peers across a college,
you pick up so much information
and it's really important to try
and share that across the board
as you just alluded to there.
And these individuals have got
that real opportunity to do that.
But from a critical friend support of
perspective and it's really important
and whilst we want and maybe expect
our managers to be able to do that
sometimes it's a different relationship.
(17:15):
So I think it's absolutely vital role
to try and help break down any myths or
dispell any any kind of negatives around.
Sorry, carry on.
Uh, I was going to say was the
Lennon champions are,
you know, they apply for this,
they don't,
they don't own head hunt anybody.
They are they have to go through an
application process and part of that
(17:35):
process is you know what what could you
bring to the table as a learning champion,
what what innovative practices
have you got that you could share.
And so that that's our application process,
we remove their name.
So there's,
you know,
it's really done on the basis
of the questions that are
asked and that application.
So airline and champions are you know,
they're all on board.
Based on the great practice that
(17:56):
they're already doing so is you you
mentioned about you know really strong
really confident in their learning and
teaching and they're really keen to
impart their knowledge with others.
But the the professional
discussions was quite new.
We we we introduced that
quite late last year.
So this is our first year of doing
it as you know across the full
academic year because we were
(18:16):
we're trying to think about how do
we do it differently because we had
such a lot of classes you know some
were on site some were were not.
So how do we do the traditional observation.
And so we we made a significant
change to that. Education Scotland,
we're happy with that change and staff are
are really engaging in that process as well.
No, that sounds fantastic.
(18:38):
I know other colleges have, uh,
similar rules in place, whether they
be named mentors or different titles.
But going back to those roles,
I think it's really important as well.
That's from my experience.
Again, I'm going to say a significant
proportion of individuals in those
roles that helps make them more
rounded and helps them progress the
next stage of their career if that's
what they wish to do so or they
take that back into the election.
(18:59):
So I think it's kind of a win,
win for all because it's more more people
to talk about learning and teaching that.
Improve learning and
teaching everybody wants to,
but there are a lot of things that
attains that detract from manager's
ability to be able to do that because
of processes and so on and so forth.
So I'm just really important.
But no, that's fascinating.
And I think really what I'm keen to
(19:20):
when picking up is kind of coming
towards the end of the podcast is
you've done a lot of the hard work,
you've done a lot of legwork already.
What advice do you have for other
colleges that may be looking
to introduce a similar model,
whether that be learning champions or
whether that be the protected time?
What are your thoughts or ideas?
If you can kind of share some of
the bits that you've learned,
that'd be great.
(19:41):
Um, of lambos? Lots and lots.
I think they they.
Biggest thing is you need to really
think about you know who's at the
top of the tree and it's really
important that you get there buying.
And we've been really lucky at
Wesleyan College, our our executive,
we just leadership team have been
so supportive of you know ideas,
suggestions that we've made,
really passionate about
(20:02):
learning and teaching.
Really understand everything that that comes
with that and how challenging it can be.
You know for for new lectures but
also for lectures that are experienced
they they they hit challenges.
So the biggest thing for me
is about getting the buy in.
And don't be frightened
to share those changes.
They might, you know, you can share them.
And they might. People might say that.
That doesn't sound right.
(20:23):
Keep going.
Keep talking about it.
You know get get groups of people as
well that work together so they can
continue to support team during our
group together that's cross college,
be confident to do that.
So we have you know in learning
continues which team there's we have
somebody from digital infrastructure
quality and the key thing in there is
we did ask for the linen development
Officer from HR to be part of that as well.
(20:46):
So there's a real crossover and then
that crosses over to everything.
So Lemon champions feed into
learning continuity,
everything's all threading
through really nicely.
Um,
but the the biggest thing is the buy
in and and Sarah Jane Lintons are you
know our VP here is you know she is.
The VP for in attainment and and
it's Sarah Jane that's driven
(21:07):
forward the success of the Wesleyan
wedding season you know she's really
listened to to what we need and
and really help to to find a way
to carve that out because to to
change a timetable significantly
like that needs great leadership.
So I think for us it's definitely
from the top and it's across college
(21:27):
approach it's involving cross college
people that you know and and then
back down to the end champions.
Bringing in other other staff who
are confident in learning and
teaching and really,
really keen to share their, their practice.
And you know, we can't,
we can't do this job on our own.
We can't do it in silos.
We have to keep collaborating
with each other.
(21:47):
And so I suppose for me,
you know,
even next steps is we need to look
at how we can do this with other
colleges because we're doing it really
well in our college across the faculties.
How can we do it across colleges?
That would be really impactful to
be able to start doing more of that.
But yeah, go to the top.
Speak to them, share your ideas,
get their buy and have really
(22:08):
robust presentations.
You know the when you take the ideas
to the teams and um, but yeah,
it's definitely from the top.
We've had great support
with the with all of this.
No, great, thanks. Yes, I'm keen.
Just unpick there in terms of
the wider workforce, you know,
lecturers who may have been used to
working in a certain way or maybe
didn't want change that entails.
How did he get their buy in or kind of
(22:28):
how did you not convince, But yeah,
kind of what steps were taken or how
did that journey look to try and
get that kind of wider engagement?
It wasn't easy.
I never asked when you're, you know,
not everybody adapts to change really well.
So it wasn't easy, but it's,
it's you know, again it's back to the top.
It's the leadership and then it's the
leadership that filters down and it's
(22:48):
it's it's trying to get the buy in
because it's a good thing and you know,
it's not,
it's not for the sake of it's really
to help people understand why we're
doing it and so that they can see the
the the vision and the bigger picture
and understand who it's all fitting in.
So I think I think we've done a lot
of work as a college on our values.
And behaviors and those values
(23:08):
that I mentioned at the beginning,
it's, you know,
reminding staff of our values and
and especially where we put students
at the centre and then tying into
our professional standards.
Um. I don't know. I think.
I think for everybody.
It can be difficult to change,
but we've had staff at whistle and
(23:30):
college have really made this change.
And there there's been a few things of
not pushed back I don't think that's
the right word of questions and why
and and but it's having the answers
and then it's back to that vision.
It's really sharing the vision
and the learning skills.
Managers who work really closely
with directors they're really
close to the teaching team.
So it's helping them leave their
(23:51):
meetings at team meetings and and taking
their team through this change but
yeah so be prepared for some pushback
and but but if you have an idea go
for it try it and we've tried it.
And and the first year we were you
know we did it and we've changed
it even already in the second year
but we've still carved out that
protected time to ensure that we
(24:12):
can find a place for staff to come
together in a a dash actually said
Jane she's she's she she has you
know really really helps support us
to take this forward and I asked
her for a quote because I said
there was doing this podcast today
but you know she had said about.
You know,
developing a great respect and
understanding for each other as staff
pass on breadth of knowledge and
(24:33):
support to students where everybody
wins and that that says it all really.
I think that's, yeah,
that does it all.
And that's come through in
every conversation you've had is
actually, it's not a standalone process
put in place. It's not a new idea.
It's part of the wider pitch and the
wider ethos around putting students
at the heart of everything you do.
And as we all know, effective teaching
practice underpins large parts of that.
(24:54):
And it's part of that wider ecology ethos,
no. So I think it's fantastic.
And yeah, I totally agree with you.
Again, from my experience,
it's not an easy journey because everyone
has their own perspective as to how
they want to learn or some people don't
want change and so on and so forth.
And again, I'd also echo the
point as one of the key points is
it's about there's two really.
One is communicating that clearly
(25:15):
to to the whole workforce,
so everyone understands what we're doing
and why we're doing it, absolutely.
And secondly,
equally importantly,
it's getting the right people as those
learning champions that understand learning,
learning teaching and can then
translate that across to the wider
masses in many different ways.
So now I think that's fantastic.
I think it's really interesting
and I'm going to see the final bit
(25:37):
I'm going to chip on is I'm sure.
You're aware but Somalis may not
be is that it said we're engaging
snacks and research on professional
learning to try and look at how
professional learning is being
delivered across the college sector.
Exactly for that reason as you've
touched upon to try and encourage,
enable,
allow for greater collaboration
across colleges because.
(25:58):
Again, in a really simplistic term,
in my head,
if then we discover or discover rather
that 5 colleges have a same model.
Well actually it might be that
those five codes may say,
well why don't we all try and
get a similar time because then
that may allow for some cross
pollination twice a year or so.
Doesn't have to be.
But if the if if strategy is already
in place then it may allow for that.
(26:19):
You know so.
But also the purpose of that is to
allow other colors to understand
different models in place and think,
oh actually that sounds great,
let's learn a bit more how
can we implement something.
Have to work for our workforce,
so I think that's really interesting.
And yeah there's a there's a lot
of unpicked then and we've been
talking for nearly half an hour
and and and times flown by we
talk for another half an hour,
(26:39):
another hour about all of those things.
But what country keeping this
podcast relatively short.
So before we come to a close here
is there anything else from you
either one final thing for people
to consider or kind of final bit
of learning from you that you kind
of think would be useful to share?
For me,
collaboration is really important
and we don't do it enough within
(27:01):
our own colleges.
So if we can do more of that and you know,
we're doing this much,
we're starting to really increase the
amount of collaboration across
the faculties, across staff,
bringing different groups of people
together to lead on projects.
The pace of which we've done
that has been really fast and
(27:22):
really successful, so I think.
If all colleges could do more of that and
are confident enough to do that, then.
We might even improve the cross
collaborative approach across our colleges.
We need to bring our, you know,
our teams out of their departments
first and we've certainly made
a huge step forward with that.
And if we can do that across the colleges,
(27:44):
I think it would really give us
a collaborative approach to.
To do so much more together.
I think it's a really good final point
even though I kind of made you think,
I think it's absolutely fantastic.
Absolutely spot on.
And I guess the final punk from me I'm
gonna reflect on a former colleague of mine.
Whenever something new was introduced
he said well what do we not do.
And again I would urge and this is
(28:05):
actually what do you do that actually
you don't need to do that could free
up a protect time for conversations
like this on issues like like this
to take place within your college to
aid that collaboration that you've
just mentioned there. So here's all.
Thank you very much friend.
Once to kind of find out more,
feel free to get in touch with
his own colleagues. West Lothian.
But here's what thank you very much
for your time. Thank you for having me.
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
(28:31):
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