March 3, 2023 • 28 mins
In this episode, we chat with Kellie Mote from Jisc about digital accessibility and how simple steps using the tools we have to hand can make a significant difference to staff and students accessing digital content. Kellie covers the legal obligations introduced through the Public Sector Body Accessibility Regulations (PSBAR) in 2018, explaining what it means in real terms for college staff.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Hello and welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of this podcast is to bring
the force and key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss and break down aspects
of practice, and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to
integrate these into our daily practice.
Today I'm delighted to be joined
by Kelly Moore from Jisc.
We'll be discussing inclusive practice,
(00:28):
accessibility within learning and teaching.
Kelly, good morning. How are you?
Hello, I'm very good.
Thanks very much. Fantastic.
Well, thank you for joining us.
You know it's a topic that kind of
really keen to to unpack and explore
and kind of really discuss further and
obviously what a wealth of experience
with you with your time of discs.
So, yeah, can we look forward to it?
And I think to kick off Kelly might be
useful if you want to kind of share
(00:50):
a little bit about your role about
what you do just that's OK yeah, sure.
So.
I work at Jisc,
which provides um like digital
services and support to all of
UK further and higher education.
And I'm a subject specialist
and there's a bunch of subjects,
specialists at disk with specialisms
and different areas.
(01:10):
And my my specialism is accessibility
and assistive technology.
So I largely do things like provide
advice and guidance to our Members,
which is just anybody that's working in a.
College,
our our university and across the UK,
so lots of advice and guidance.
We also facilitate communities
(01:31):
as well to help people learn from
each other and support one another.
And we do training and things
as well and policy work.
So we do a bunch of stuff,
but basically the sort of common
thread running through all the work
that I do is digital accessibility and
inclusive practice and using technology
and making the most of it not great.
(01:53):
Thanks.
Some place to start is to kind of
really explore or unpick what is
meant by the term accessibility.
Um,
using assistive technology or
inclusive practice.
Because I think, yeah,
that the word accessibility might
mean different things to different people.
So I guess in your world and from
your perspective,
what does that kind of word or
phrase mean to yourself?
Yeah.
(02:14):
So when we're talking about accessibility,
because I realized, yeah,
it can cover lots of things,
for instance, like building accessibility,
but for us because.
You know,
just covers all things kind of digital.
We're talking about digital accessibility,
um,
so and we'll come on in a moment
to the kind of legal requirements
around that as well.
(02:35):
But really what it means is that.
Users, whether they're students or staff,
can use digital content and access
it without barriers.
So it's really just about creating stuff
sort of in the way it should be created.
But you know,
sometimes people aren't aware of.
(02:55):
Things are doing that might
be creating barriers.
Um, so it's about just creating stuff
that is able to be used by everybody.
Um, whether they're using
assistive technology or not,
whether they've got diverse
user needs or disabilities.
It also means that content will
display consistently and properly.
(03:16):
Across different platforms
and on different devices.
So we saw especially um,
you know during kind of lockdown
periods in in the UK we realized
just how many students were using
their phones to access content.
And the great thing with accessible
content is that it displays
well on mobiles and it interacts
well because I think a lot of
us have had the experience of
(03:37):
maybe especially during you know.
Surround maybe sending lifting
of lockdowns or whatever.
We things like, um,
restaurant menus and stuff where like
QR codes and you've got and then
you would get this like weird kind
of image or PDF that you'd have to
kind of zoom in on and it would all be.
And that's what access inaccessible
content looks like on a mobile phone
(03:57):
and accessible stuff just displays well.
And so there's loads of benefits to that.
But what we're talking about is
digital stuff and primarily content
that is accessed through a browser.
That's the sort of rule of thumb
is what we're talking about.
Things access through browser,
nothing I missed it kind of really simple.
And OK,
jot down some notes and forgive me
(04:18):
creating stuff that can be used by everybody.
I know I mean the digital no,
but that's it because I'm a big believer
in no matter what topic we discussed,
there's a lot of different views,
descriptions,
analysis,
it's kind of whatever it means.
I'm a big believer in anything really,
really simple.
So we're talking through and we
are framing digital accessibility,
it's about creating content or
(04:39):
or learning or materials that can
be used by everybody.
The respect of a platform and I
think it's a really pertinent issue
because right now as we know even now
we're in a postcard world where we're,
we're colleagues especially in college
are returned typically back on campus.
That doesn't mean the solar learning as
background campus face to face and paper.
There's a lot more digital use
which is interesting and I know
you you touched a little bit upon
(04:59):
the legal requirements.
So it's useful for go there first then
we're going to look broader and think well,
what does this actually mean in practice
to me in my role and so on and so forth.
So over to you for the legal bit.
OK, yeah, no pressure.
Yeah.
So, um,
so,
yeah,
obviously like I mentioned creating
content that's accessible is doing
it the right way and there's
(05:20):
also as you mentioned as well,
there's real you know kind of ethical
and practical benefits to that.
But there is a legal imperative now as well.
So the public sector bodies
website and mobile applications
accessibility regulations as an issue,
we often it's,
it's abbreviated to PS
(05:41):
BAR or just accessibility.
Regulations and we're introduced in 2018,
yeah, 2018 um coming in sort of as part
of our European directive at that time.
But it's now UK law um and it's non devolved.
So it covers all of the UK equally and it is
(06:01):
monitored by a part of the Cabinet Office
called the Central Data and Digital Office.
So what the Accessibility Regulation says
if you're a public sector body, which.
Virtually all colleges will be,
unless they're kind of private colleges.
Um, they need to be producing digital content
(06:23):
that meets a certain defined standard,
and that is a standard that
means the content meets.
Accessibility requirements,
so that's standard,
is known as wiki Tag 2.1 AA and Wiki
Tag is an abbreviation of the web
content accessibility guidelines,
so this is a legal requirement.
(06:44):
And that will be affecting all our colleges.
Um, so you need to have, you know,
kind of plans in place to to
improve your content,
to ensure new content meets these standards.
In terms of how the law is
implemented across the public sector,
there's kind of two strands to it.
One is there's the monitoring and
(07:05):
that is kind of checking that people
are doing what they need to be doing.
So websites or digital content
is selected kind of at random.
By the central digital and data
office for monitoring.
So they will test your content
and we know that this year, um,
well, in the last 12 months,
further education colleges have
(07:26):
seen a kind of increase in their
content being monitored.
And you know that you've been
monitored because you receive an
e-mail or a letter from the Cabinet
Office that tells you you've been
monitored and it tells you where your
content has problems and you have
12 weeks to remediate your content
and come up with a plan.
(07:47):
So that's the monitoring.
You can also be monitored as a
result of a direct complaint
being made about your content,
and basically anyone can do that,
and that can be a visitor.
Student or a member of staff.
And this isn't just websites,
it's often,
sometimes people think it's just websites.
It's basically everything accessed
(08:09):
through a browser and that includes third
party content that you've paid for.
So software and systems,
you become responsible for them at
the point that you pay for them.
So that's the monitoring.
But then there's the other bit
that people are kind of interested
in is the enforcement.
So what actually happens if
if it all goes pear shaped.
So if your response is um.
(08:32):
Not quite, um,
satisfactory to to the monitoring
or the complaint, then, um,
the evidence will be passed to the
equality and Human Rights Commission,
who can then take legal action
using the Equality Act.
And because the Equality Act, um, when?
Legal action is taken using that.
(08:53):
There's kind of confidentiality agreements.
So that means when people say,
well, what actually happened,
it's like, well, I don't know,
um, only the people who were
involved know what what happens.
But it is, you know, it's a proper law.
It's very similar in terms of how it came
in to GDPR and except the thing with
GDPR is that the fines were very explicit
(09:14):
and sort of focus the mind somewhat.
But um, we don't know what the,
what the penalties are for
for noncompliance with, um,
accessibility regulations,
but we do know that it's you don't
want to get to that point. And so,
so it needs to be taken kind of seriously.
So the requirements are that your
content meets a certain standard,
(09:36):
but there's also another thing as well,
which is that you must have on your
website and accessibility statement and
that needs to follow government wording.
And it needs to stay, um,
what you're doing to make your
site more accessible.
It needs to be transparent about
any problems that you do have and
what you're going to do to fix them.
(09:57):
And also very importantly as well,
it needs to have a contact name
and details for anybody that has
that's experiencing difficulties.
And that's really important.
That's the sort of thing that cddo look for,
but it's also really important in
terms of dealing with problems.
Before they get escalated as well,
(10:18):
it's better if someone comes to you and
tells you they're having difficulty
and you fix that rather than they
they make a complaint about you.
So so it's all about kind of transparency
and open communication about what you're
doing and where you've got problems.
Not great.
Well Kelly,
I think you've done that very
clearly because it's a very complex
area that can legal requirements.
So it makes total sense.
(10:39):
And I think for for colleagues
who are listening, um,
I think it's useful to kind
of provide that context.
We have a mixture of people
who will be uh management,
senior management,
who are responsible for which
part of the website and connect
external facing comments,
but also quite a few lecturers who
are listening in terms of well what
does this mean to me which I was
going to move into now in terms of and
what I will say is I'm no expert whatsoever.
(11:02):
But what I have noticed is,
again,
since the COVID time and through
Office 365 and other platforms,
there are a whole host of different things.
I'm going to say things because
that's what I used to do,
to kind of mention lots of different things,
but there are a whole host of
different tools out there which can
be used and kind of really embraced.
(11:23):
And I'm sure there's aspects
of AI you might mention now.
So I guess the key but now is so.
I'm a practitioner. How do I do it?
What tools are out there that can help me,
to support me, to help me develop this?
Uh, so, yes. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah. Where do we start?
Yeah, sure. Well, first of all,
when you first approach accessibility, it can
(11:43):
look like a very technical and large area.
But I think the thing to be reminded that,
especially for lecturing staff,
there's a whole raft of stuff that
actually they don't need to concern
themselves with that is the remit of um.
You know, web developers and designers.
And you know.
(12:03):
Content creators and things
it's it's a lot of the stuff is.
Not stuff for them to worry about.
So so the the best thing to do is to
focus on well what does impact um,
lectures and what can you do.
And actually it's quite,
um sort of focused area.
So if you are creating.
(12:24):
And for instance,
documents or PowerPoints,
those need to be,
um, accessible,
because in all likelihood they'll
be uploaded to your virtual learning
environment and that obviously comes.
Under scope of things accessed through
a browser and so the great thing is
as you mentioned there's there's an
increase you'll notice in 365 and
(12:45):
and other platforms as well and to
providing tools to help you to do this.
So both word and PowerPoint have
got inbuilt accessibility checkers.
And and they will kind of go
through your document and flag
where there's where there's issues.
A cool thing with that is that.
When you've done that a few times,
(13:06):
you actually start to see,
OK, actually,
if I just did things in a
certain way the first time,
I don't have to go back and fix them.
And it could be very simple.
It's really, again,
it's about constructing
things in the correct way.
So for instance,
in a Word document having like
an actual heading, you know,
attributing the text with a heading style
(13:26):
rather than just making text bigger and bold.
And that helps lots of people who are
accessing using assistive technology.
It also means when things are
opened on different devices,
it will display consistently.
And similarly with PowerPoint as well.
When you run the PowerPoint
accessibility checker,
it will do things like ask
(13:47):
you where there's an image.
Is this image just decorative?
Sometimes it is just decorative.
You've got something to look nice.
Or is it conveying information?
And where it's conveying information you
need to pop in a little descriptor so that,
and that's known as
alternative text or alt text,
so.
There's there's lots of things
um in place to support you when
(14:07):
you're creating your own content.
To make sure it's accessible
and again we provide,
you know I'll point to this in a moment,
lots of guidance on on how to do this.
Obviously it gets a bit more um.
As you know a bit more complex
when you get into subjects are
more like it's kind of STEM
(14:29):
subjects where your diagrams.
And images may be containing more
complex information that needs to
be described in a certain way.
And again, that's the sort
of thing like it disk.
And within our communities,
we've got dedicated groups who support
one another with um doing that and um,
you know, direct people to resources
that will help with that. So.
(14:49):
So, yeah, so, so word and PowerPoint
are a really good place to start.
And then the other thing to think about
is the tools that you're using as well.
And you know, if you're using,
for instance, online collaboration tools,
you need to make sure that everyone's
going to be able to use those.
Quick way to find out is to just
Google like the name of the tool and
(15:11):
the word accessibility to see if
they've got an accessibility statement.
Um.
And again with with third party
tools as well is um.
Although.
Your college is actually assumes the
responsibility for tools being in
inaccessible if they've been paid for.
What we can do is push back onto
(15:33):
suppliers and ask them to provide
accessibility information and also
to tell them like we need to be
curing stuff that is accessible.
It will start to embed it in
your procurement as well to start
pushing back that responsibility
onto the developers and suppliers
and inform your decisions.
So those are a couple of things.
(15:53):
That that can be done, um,
in terms of a big one we get
asked about a lot.
Is an,
especially since you know 2020
is um what to do about video.
This is the number of ways to
make video accessible,
but the one that most people are
sort of focused on is captioning.
(16:15):
So there's a lot of,
you mentioned kind of AI and the AI
underpinning automatic captioning
is getting better all the time.
In some cases,
it is comparable to human
captioning in terms of humans.
We'll make mistakes as well as AI,
you know, it's kind of it's it's it's it's.
(16:37):
It's it's on a level there,
but there can be discrepancies
depending on um sometimes like
accent or or the way that people
people speak because it is basically
it's just machine learning.
It will work with what it's
most familiar with.
So it is getting better, but what?
And we do appreciate that um,
checking and correcting captioning
(16:58):
on video is very time consuming,
but that's um,
just explain why that's necessary.
So with with video, um,
the the kind of legal requirement is that.
Automatic captioning isn't
actually enough in itself.
Captions have to be checked and corrected.
(17:18):
Automatic captioning can be very
decent and sometimes we've had,
you know, we've just,
we've made videos for the automatic
captioning is almost kind of flawless.
But we do recognize that
sometimes that won't be the case.
It can be really time consuming,
but for instance,
one of the things that just does is
there's an arm of Jisc known as chest.
(17:38):
Which does.
It negotiates like licensing
agreements on behalf of the sector.
It's nonprofit,
it's supplier agnostic,
but it exists to basically
save the sector money.
And one one of the agreements
they've got at the moment is
for I think A2 called VERBIT,
which is a caption correction service
and like I use that myself, I make.
(18:03):
I take advantage of that.
It turns basically like a 6
hour job into a 10 minute job.
So you know there's there are there
are tools out there as well and
services that you can use as well.
Nothing that's really interesting and it
points you mentioned there are are really,
I'm gonna say key but also
quite simple to use.
Um, so just jump back to what you said in
terms of of kind of word and PowerPoint,
(18:25):
in terms of digital accessibility checker,
I talked to Greater Waverly training
yourself to be aware of kind of
which of the cues that often pop
up and feel they haven't seen.
You click on word itself,
you click on review at the top and then
check accessibility along the top bar.
It'll give you a review and a rating,
some pointers as to what to
consider and you're actually right
in terms of headings and titles.
(18:45):
A trains you to use the titles within
word therefore it works accessible
which is yeah it's really quite
simple and on the video point in
terms of captions I'm sure I saw some
research in the day amount of young
people watching Netflix with with the
subtitles on with the captions on.
I mean I don't know why but
I'll do that now as well,
not because my age I hope but periodically
becomes second nature to watch it
(19:06):
whilst kind of watching a video there.
So I think the more digital content
that we have is is education providers.
It's it's essential that it is
accessible for exactly those reasons.
You mentioned there as well,
yeah,
I mean another way of dealing with
video as well is also thinking about,
you know,
the amount of video that you do need
to upload because I think there
(19:26):
was a bit of a thing, you know,
when we were all using teams and zoom.
And it was so easy to record and
pop it onto YouTube or whatever.
Um.
I think you know like my my personal
tickets that may be too much video
was it was getting uploaded and
and it's not just from an you know
from the point of view of well the.
(19:47):
You know,
the amount of time it takes to
correct captions.
There's also,
um,
there's a lot of value in curating your
video content as well because for a start,
it's, you know,
there's a digital carbon
footprint to uploading video.
So it's kind of like I was sick of it.
So digital landfill,
it's like if you're uploading video
that's not being watched and,
(20:08):
you know, that's like.
And occupying space on on a server,
it's it's generating energy so
we shouldn't be you know,
doing that. There's also um, you know,
sometimes a risk as well and putting
up content that then goes out of date.
You should be taking content down
as soon as as soon as it goes
out of date usually 12 months.
(20:29):
And this data protection issues
as well of different people are
speaking in a video, you know,
like videos of discussions and meetings
and things probably it's not good at
necessarily a good idea to share them.
So The thing is if you kind of take that
approach of curating your video to making it.
You know more, um.
You know, more quality and
more impactful put down there.
(20:50):
Then it makes the whole thing like
captioning and and providing transcripts
is a bit easier because you've got
like less content to deal with.
It's just a bit more streamlined.
And also from a students perspective,
no, I was a big believer in again
over especially lockdown period.
There was, I used the term a lot of noise.
There's a lot of noise out there because
you're absolutely there's so many videos
(21:11):
out there you don't know where to start.
And again when working with our
learners and our student population,
it's really important.
Same post.
Into appropriate.
But it was me and may
not be relevant to them.
Yes,
there's an activity in there around students,
self regulated and that themselves and
identify what's useful and relevant to them.
But no, you're absolutely right in
terms of the quality of video content.
I've noticed significantly improved
over the last two to three years.
(21:32):
But there's a lot of work to be
done there and that space there as
well and making sure that that video
content is accessible there as well.
So,
so I guess conscious time
is racing away from us.
What I'm keeping on pick is
one of the key principles.
A considerable touched upon one or
two there in terms of creating them
and kind of making them relevant.
Are there any other principles to
(21:54):
consider or key measures to consider
when using tools around accessibility?
I think well,
if we go in terms of principles,
if we go to like very kind of high level
um of sort of strategic level is that.
And accessibility involves lots of
different people across a college.
So although we're thinking about,
you know,
(22:15):
perhaps the practitioner's perspective here,
there's a lot of other folks involved
and it requires a lot of join up.
And you're talking about folks because
you mentioned responsibility earlier
and there's like accountability as well.
It's like who's desk is that letter
going to land on when there's a,
you know, an issue?
It's not going to be a lecturer's desk.
It's gonna be someone in senior
(22:37):
management that's that's going to be held.
Countable and but it is everybody
in the organization is responsible,
but you've also got people like
your vile managers and library
and folks procurement.
We've got all these different people that
need to be involved.
So let's say one of the key
principles is working together and
(22:57):
creating a shared vision and plan
for how you're going to do it.
Because again with among staff,
there's going to be some people
who are more confident about
using accessibility checkers.
Or, you know, et cetera and some who.
It, you know, it might be completely
new to them and they might not really
understand why it's important because
they might look at their stuff and think,
(23:18):
well looks OK,
but not realized like that.
Actually it's going to present
barriers to folks.
So what I'd say is the kind of
ultimate thing to crack is getting
some senior management buy in.
Because that's when.
It becomes a priority and like
one of my colleagues often says
(23:38):
who works in kind of strategy,
it's like if this isn't important.
To the people in leadership,
why should it be important to me?
You know, so it needs that leadership,
ownership and then at that point as well,
then you get, you know,
you're more likely to get time
and resources released for it.
So what we do at Jisc with
colleges and you know we don't,
(23:59):
we don't charge for this
we we offer a workshop.
To people working in colleges
called Vision for accessibility.
And a large part of that is actually
getting all the key people together.
You know, it's we say around the table,
but it's around the teams room
because it's online, but it's,
it's to make sure everybody's
actually got shared vision.
(24:20):
And you know where they can actually
support each other and create a road map.
So I would say that's the number one thing.
Um is joined up approach with UM
leadership buy in is is absolutely key.
I think that's where the colleges
that do this well,
that's what they're doing.
Otherwise you'll get like little pockets
(24:41):
of good practice and then other areas
that are just completely neglected so.
That's absolutely key.
I think the other thing is,
um, like you were,
you know,
sort of keen to emphasize as well is that
we have tools at our fingertips that we
don't have to pay for that can support us.
Um,
so you've got the inbuilt tools
(25:02):
in Microsoft Office.
There's also lots of other free ones as well.
And we direct people to lots of free
stuff and approaches in a guide.
We do lots of online guidance,
but probably our best starting
point is if you just Google.
Practical steps um to meeting
accessibility regulations from Jisc
(25:22):
and that gives you lots of links to
free checkers and and things that
help you generate your statement
and things like that as well.
And the third principle I would
say as well is beyond your college
is the best way to find out how
to do something is talking to
people who've already done it.
So that's why we facilitate,
(25:43):
we do loads of community stuff.
We've got an absolute
massive community in teams.
I think at the moment it's got 1400
users on there with about, I don't know,
I've got about 20 channels at least
of like for different subjects,
you know there's, there's.
We've got channels for all
sorts of different things. Um.
But we also do online drop in
(26:05):
clinics and got mailing lists as
well if that's something you prefer.
We've got ideas rooms um which are
done in zoom where people just come
along and chat and we're also um
for this year we're developing and
buddying and as a as an approach
like between organizations to
help you know that facilitate
(26:26):
that peer-to-peer support and
learning and Co production as well.
So I would say you know.
My kind of third big principle is
just get stuck in the accessibility
and assistive technology.
Communities are really friendly,
really generous with their knowledge
and it's like if you know nothing,
you're just as welcome as someone
(26:48):
who's like a tip top expert.
And we do loads of stuff around
that and it doesn't cost anything.
Like all the things we've been
talking about today comes,
you know, provided by Jisc um,
it's it doesn't cost,
doesn't cost you anything.
It's all inclusive or you're just membership.
No,
I think that's a really good point
to kind of share because it's a
lot of people will be aware of
just but they won't know what
(27:09):
they do and how they can benefit
individuals and their rules.
And as you rightly mentioned it
structures practitioners as a whole
host different roles across college
sector that can be mindful of this.
No, I think that's really important.
So yeah,
I I would implore listeners to do
that to 1st to kind of have a look at
the just website and understand a bit
more about kind of what's available,
what's on offer but no.
And then secondly,
(27:29):
totally agree, talk to people,
learn,
share magpie from each other collaborating.
You know all those different aspects
there because it's a common challenge.
It's a common problem that we can
only kind of learn from each other
and and kind of work individuals
who work collaboratively to kind
of to address accessibility issues
and try and help make what about
puts you will up your website
(27:50):
whether it be a learning experience
as accessible as possible.
But oh, well,
Kelly,
thank you Rotary your time and we've
just got magic complete that within time.
Then I think we're finished on a
really positive note in the sense
of there's a load of tools out
there to kind of go and look at.
And again,
I'll just kind of repeat really
what you've said in the sense
of the starting point for you,
if you can read it.
Keen,
is the Google just practical steps
(28:10):
to meeting accessibility because
I've done that from the website.
There's lots of information there,
but also your details from
there to kind of get
in touch with and you and your
colleagues and support listeners.
So Kelly, fantastic.
Thank you for your time and look forward
to catch up again in the near future.
OK. Thanks very much, son.
Hello and welcome to the latest episode
of the Pedagogy Matters Podcast.
The purpose of this podcast is to bring
the force and key topics of conversation
in relation to learning and teaching,
to discuss and break down aspects
of practice, and provide snippets,
advice and guidance as to how to
integrate these into our daily practice.
Today I'm delighted to be joined
by Kelly Moore from Jisc.
We'll be discussing inclusive practice,
(00:28):
accessibility within learning and teaching.
Kelly, good morning. How are you?
Hello, I'm very good.
Thanks very much. Fantastic.
Well, thank you for joining us.
You know it's a topic that kind of
really keen to to unpack and explore
and kind of really discuss further and
obviously what a wealth of experience
with you with your time of discs.
So, yeah, can we look forward to it?
And I think to kick off Kelly might be
useful if you want to kind of share
(00:50):
a little bit about your role about
what you do just that's OK yeah, sure.
So.
I work at Jisc,
which provides um like digital
services and support to all of
UK further and higher education.
And I'm a subject specialist
and there's a bunch of subjects,
specialists at disk with specialisms
and different areas.
(01:10):
And my my specialism is accessibility
and assistive technology.
So I largely do things like provide
advice and guidance to our Members,
which is just anybody that's working in a.
College,
our our university and across the UK,
so lots of advice and guidance.
We also facilitate communities
(01:31):
as well to help people learn from
each other and support one another.
And we do training and things
as well and policy work.
So we do a bunch of stuff,
but basically the sort of common
thread running through all the work
that I do is digital accessibility and
inclusive practice and using technology
and making the most of it not great.
(01:53):
Thanks.
Some place to start is to kind of
really explore or unpick what is
meant by the term accessibility.
Um,
using assistive technology or
inclusive practice.
Because I think, yeah,
that the word accessibility might
mean different things to different people.
So I guess in your world and from
your perspective,
what does that kind of word or
phrase mean to yourself?
Yeah.
(02:14):
So when we're talking about accessibility,
because I realized, yeah,
it can cover lots of things,
for instance, like building accessibility,
but for us because.
You know,
just covers all things kind of digital.
We're talking about digital accessibility,
um,
so and we'll come on in a moment
to the kind of legal requirements
around that as well.
(02:35):
But really what it means is that.
Users, whether they're students or staff,
can use digital content and access
it without barriers.
So it's really just about creating stuff
sort of in the way it should be created.
But you know,
sometimes people aren't aware of.
(02:55):
Things are doing that might
be creating barriers.
Um, so it's about just creating stuff
that is able to be used by everybody.
Um, whether they're using
assistive technology or not,
whether they've got diverse
user needs or disabilities.
It also means that content will
display consistently and properly.
(03:16):
Across different platforms
and on different devices.
So we saw especially um,
you know during kind of lockdown
periods in in the UK we realized
just how many students were using
their phones to access content.
And the great thing with accessible
content is that it displays
well on mobiles and it interacts
well because I think a lot of
us have had the experience of
(03:37):
maybe especially during you know.
Surround maybe sending lifting
of lockdowns or whatever.
We things like, um,
restaurant menus and stuff where like
QR codes and you've got and then
you would get this like weird kind
of image or PDF that you'd have to
kind of zoom in on and it would all be.
And that's what access inaccessible
content looks like on a mobile phone
(03:57):
and accessible stuff just displays well.
And so there's loads of benefits to that.
But what we're talking about is
digital stuff and primarily content
that is accessed through a browser.
That's the sort of rule of thumb
is what we're talking about.
Things access through browser,
nothing I missed it kind of really simple.
And OK,
jot down some notes and forgive me
(04:18):
creating stuff that can be used by everybody.
I know I mean the digital no,
but that's it because I'm a big believer
in no matter what topic we discussed,
there's a lot of different views,
descriptions,
analysis,
it's kind of whatever it means.
I'm a big believer in anything really,
really simple.
So we're talking through and we
are framing digital accessibility,
it's about creating content or
(04:39):
or learning or materials that can
be used by everybody.
The respect of a platform and I
think it's a really pertinent issue
because right now as we know even now
we're in a postcard world where we're,
we're colleagues especially in college
are returned typically back on campus.
That doesn't mean the solar learning as
background campus face to face and paper.
There's a lot more digital use
which is interesting and I know
you you touched a little bit upon
(04:59):
the legal requirements.
So it's useful for go there first then
we're going to look broader and think well,
what does this actually mean in practice
to me in my role and so on and so forth.
So over to you for the legal bit.
OK, yeah, no pressure.
Yeah.
So, um,
so,
yeah,
obviously like I mentioned creating
content that's accessible is doing
it the right way and there's
(05:20):
also as you mentioned as well,
there's real you know kind of ethical
and practical benefits to that.
But there is a legal imperative now as well.
So the public sector bodies
website and mobile applications
accessibility regulations as an issue,
we often it's,
it's abbreviated to PS
(05:41):
BAR or just accessibility.
Regulations and we're introduced in 2018,
yeah, 2018 um coming in sort of as part
of our European directive at that time.
But it's now UK law um and it's non devolved.
So it covers all of the UK equally and it is
(06:01):
monitored by a part of the Cabinet Office
called the Central Data and Digital Office.
So what the Accessibility Regulation says
if you're a public sector body, which.
Virtually all colleges will be,
unless they're kind of private colleges.
Um, they need to be producing digital content
(06:23):
that meets a certain defined standard,
and that is a standard that
means the content meets.
Accessibility requirements,
so that's standard,
is known as wiki Tag 2.1 AA and Wiki
Tag is an abbreviation of the web
content accessibility guidelines,
so this is a legal requirement.
(06:44):
And that will be affecting all our colleges.
Um, so you need to have, you know,
kind of plans in place to to
improve your content,
to ensure new content meets these standards.
In terms of how the law is
implemented across the public sector,
there's kind of two strands to it.
One is there's the monitoring and
(07:05):
that is kind of checking that people
are doing what they need to be doing.
So websites or digital content
is selected kind of at random.
By the central digital and data
office for monitoring.
So they will test your content
and we know that this year, um,
well, in the last 12 months,
further education colleges have
(07:26):
seen a kind of increase in their
content being monitored.
And you know that you've been
monitored because you receive an
e-mail or a letter from the Cabinet
Office that tells you you've been
monitored and it tells you where your
content has problems and you have
12 weeks to remediate your content
and come up with a plan.
(07:47):
So that's the monitoring.
You can also be monitored as a
result of a direct complaint
being made about your content,
and basically anyone can do that,
and that can be a visitor.
Student or a member of staff.
And this isn't just websites,
it's often,
sometimes people think it's just websites.
It's basically everything accessed
(08:09):
through a browser and that includes third
party content that you've paid for.
So software and systems,
you become responsible for them at
the point that you pay for them.
So that's the monitoring.
But then there's the other bit
that people are kind of interested
in is the enforcement.
So what actually happens if
if it all goes pear shaped.
So if your response is um.
(08:32):
Not quite, um,
satisfactory to to the monitoring
or the complaint, then, um,
the evidence will be passed to the
equality and Human Rights Commission,
who can then take legal action
using the Equality Act.
And because the Equality Act, um, when?
Legal action is taken using that.
(08:53):
There's kind of confidentiality agreements.
So that means when people say,
well, what actually happened,
it's like, well, I don't know,
um, only the people who were
involved know what what happens.
But it is, you know, it's a proper law.
It's very similar in terms of how it came
in to GDPR and except the thing with
GDPR is that the fines were very explicit
(09:14):
and sort of focus the mind somewhat.
But um, we don't know what the,
what the penalties are for
for noncompliance with, um,
accessibility regulations,
but we do know that it's you don't
want to get to that point. And so,
so it needs to be taken kind of seriously.
So the requirements are that your
content meets a certain standard,
(09:36):
but there's also another thing as well,
which is that you must have on your
website and accessibility statement and
that needs to follow government wording.
And it needs to stay, um,
what you're doing to make your
site more accessible.
It needs to be transparent about
any problems that you do have and
what you're going to do to fix them.
(09:57):
And also very importantly as well,
it needs to have a contact name
and details for anybody that has
that's experiencing difficulties.
And that's really important.
That's the sort of thing that cddo look for,
but it's also really important in
terms of dealing with problems.
Before they get escalated as well,
(10:18):
it's better if someone comes to you and
tells you they're having difficulty
and you fix that rather than they
they make a complaint about you.
So so it's all about kind of transparency
and open communication about what you're
doing and where you've got problems.
Not great.
Well Kelly,
I think you've done that very
clearly because it's a very complex
area that can legal requirements.
So it makes total sense.
(10:39):
And I think for for colleagues
who are listening, um,
I think it's useful to kind
of provide that context.
We have a mixture of people
who will be uh management,
senior management,
who are responsible for which
part of the website and connect
external facing comments,
but also quite a few lecturers who
are listening in terms of well what
does this mean to me which I was
going to move into now in terms of and
what I will say is I'm no expert whatsoever.
(11:02):
But what I have noticed is,
again,
since the COVID time and through
Office 365 and other platforms,
there are a whole host of different things.
I'm going to say things because
that's what I used to do,
to kind of mention lots of different things,
but there are a whole host of
different tools out there which can
be used and kind of really embraced.
(11:23):
And I'm sure there's aspects
of AI you might mention now.
So I guess the key but now is so.
I'm a practitioner. How do I do it?
What tools are out there that can help me,
to support me, to help me develop this?
Uh, so, yes. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah. Where do we start?
Yeah, sure. Well, first of all,
when you first approach accessibility, it can
(11:43):
look like a very technical and large area.
But I think the thing to be reminded that,
especially for lecturing staff,
there's a whole raft of stuff that
actually they don't need to concern
themselves with that is the remit of um.
You know, web developers and designers.
And you know.
(12:03):
Content creators and things
it's it's a lot of the stuff is.
Not stuff for them to worry about.
So so the the best thing to do is to
focus on well what does impact um,
lectures and what can you do.
And actually it's quite,
um sort of focused area.
So if you are creating.
(12:24):
And for instance,
documents or PowerPoints,
those need to be,
um, accessible,
because in all likelihood they'll
be uploaded to your virtual learning
environment and that obviously comes.
Under scope of things accessed through
a browser and so the great thing is
as you mentioned there's there's an
increase you'll notice in 365 and
(12:45):
and other platforms as well and to
providing tools to help you to do this.
So both word and PowerPoint have
got inbuilt accessibility checkers.
And and they will kind of go
through your document and flag
where there's where there's issues.
A cool thing with that is that.
When you've done that a few times,
(13:06):
you actually start to see,
OK, actually,
if I just did things in a
certain way the first time,
I don't have to go back and fix them.
And it could be very simple.
It's really, again,
it's about constructing
things in the correct way.
So for instance,
in a Word document having like
an actual heading, you know,
attributing the text with a heading style
(13:26):
rather than just making text bigger and bold.
And that helps lots of people who are
accessing using assistive technology.
It also means when things are
opened on different devices,
it will display consistently.
And similarly with PowerPoint as well.
When you run the PowerPoint
accessibility checker,
it will do things like ask
(13:47):
you where there's an image.
Is this image just decorative?
Sometimes it is just decorative.
You've got something to look nice.
Or is it conveying information?
And where it's conveying information you
need to pop in a little descriptor so that,
and that's known as
alternative text or alt text,
so.
There's there's lots of things
um in place to support you when
(14:07):
you're creating your own content.
To make sure it's accessible
and again we provide,
you know I'll point to this in a moment,
lots of guidance on on how to do this.
Obviously it gets a bit more um.
As you know a bit more complex
when you get into subjects are
more like it's kind of STEM
(14:29):
subjects where your diagrams.
And images may be containing more
complex information that needs to
be described in a certain way.
And again, that's the sort
of thing like it disk.
And within our communities,
we've got dedicated groups who support
one another with um doing that and um,
you know, direct people to resources
that will help with that. So.
(14:49):
So, yeah, so, so word and PowerPoint
are a really good place to start.
And then the other thing to think about
is the tools that you're using as well.
And you know, if you're using,
for instance, online collaboration tools,
you need to make sure that everyone's
going to be able to use those.
Quick way to find out is to just
Google like the name of the tool and
(15:11):
the word accessibility to see if
they've got an accessibility statement.
Um.
And again with with third party
tools as well is um.
Although.
Your college is actually assumes the
responsibility for tools being in
inaccessible if they've been paid for.
What we can do is push back onto
(15:33):
suppliers and ask them to provide
accessibility information and also
to tell them like we need to be
curing stuff that is accessible.
It will start to embed it in
your procurement as well to start
pushing back that responsibility
onto the developers and suppliers
and inform your decisions.
So those are a couple of things.
(15:53):
That that can be done, um,
in terms of a big one we get
asked about a lot.
Is an,
especially since you know 2020
is um what to do about video.
This is the number of ways to
make video accessible,
but the one that most people are
sort of focused on is captioning.
(16:15):
So there's a lot of,
you mentioned kind of AI and the AI
underpinning automatic captioning
is getting better all the time.
In some cases,
it is comparable to human
captioning in terms of humans.
We'll make mistakes as well as AI,
you know, it's kind of it's it's it's it's.
(16:37):
It's it's on a level there,
but there can be discrepancies
depending on um sometimes like
accent or or the way that people
people speak because it is basically
it's just machine learning.
It will work with what it's
most familiar with.
So it is getting better, but what?
And we do appreciate that um,
checking and correcting captioning
(16:58):
on video is very time consuming,
but that's um,
just explain why that's necessary.
So with with video, um,
the the kind of legal requirement is that.
Automatic captioning isn't
actually enough in itself.
Captions have to be checked and corrected.
(17:18):
Automatic captioning can be very
decent and sometimes we've had,
you know, we've just,
we've made videos for the automatic
captioning is almost kind of flawless.
But we do recognize that
sometimes that won't be the case.
It can be really time consuming,
but for instance,
one of the things that just does is
there's an arm of Jisc known as chest.
(17:38):
Which does.
It negotiates like licensing
agreements on behalf of the sector.
It's nonprofit,
it's supplier agnostic,
but it exists to basically
save the sector money.
And one one of the agreements
they've got at the moment is
for I think A2 called VERBIT,
which is a caption correction service
and like I use that myself, I make.
(18:03):
I take advantage of that.
It turns basically like a 6
hour job into a 10 minute job.
So you know there's there are there
are tools out there as well and
services that you can use as well.
Nothing that's really interesting and it
points you mentioned there are are really,
I'm gonna say key but also
quite simple to use.
Um, so just jump back to what you said in
terms of of kind of word and PowerPoint,
(18:25):
in terms of digital accessibility checker,
I talked to Greater Waverly training
yourself to be aware of kind of
which of the cues that often pop
up and feel they haven't seen.
You click on word itself,
you click on review at the top and then
check accessibility along the top bar.
It'll give you a review and a rating,
some pointers as to what to
consider and you're actually right
in terms of headings and titles.
(18:45):
A trains you to use the titles within
word therefore it works accessible
which is yeah it's really quite
simple and on the video point in
terms of captions I'm sure I saw some
research in the day amount of young
people watching Netflix with with the
subtitles on with the captions on.
I mean I don't know why but
I'll do that now as well,
not because my age I hope but periodically
becomes second nature to watch it
(19:06):
whilst kind of watching a video there.
So I think the more digital content
that we have is is education providers.
It's it's essential that it is
accessible for exactly those reasons.
You mentioned there as well,
yeah,
I mean another way of dealing with
video as well is also thinking about,
you know,
the amount of video that you do need
to upload because I think there
(19:26):
was a bit of a thing, you know,
when we were all using teams and zoom.
And it was so easy to record and
pop it onto YouTube or whatever.
Um.
I think you know like my my personal
tickets that may be too much video
was it was getting uploaded and
and it's not just from an you know
from the point of view of well the.
(19:47):
You know,
the amount of time it takes to
correct captions.
There's also,
um,
there's a lot of value in curating your
video content as well because for a start,
it's, you know,
there's a digital carbon
footprint to uploading video.
So it's kind of like I was sick of it.
So digital landfill,
it's like if you're uploading video
that's not being watched and,
(20:08):
you know, that's like.
And occupying space on on a server,
it's it's generating energy so
we shouldn't be you know,
doing that. There's also um, you know,
sometimes a risk as well and putting
up content that then goes out of date.
You should be taking content down
as soon as as soon as it goes
out of date usually 12 months.
(20:29):
And this data protection issues
as well of different people are
speaking in a video, you know,
like videos of discussions and meetings
and things probably it's not good at
necessarily a good idea to share them.
So The thing is if you kind of take that
approach of curating your video to making it.
You know more, um.
You know, more quality and
more impactful put down there.
(20:50):
Then it makes the whole thing like
captioning and and providing transcripts
is a bit easier because you've got
like less content to deal with.
It's just a bit more streamlined.
And also from a students perspective,
no, I was a big believer in again
over especially lockdown period.
There was, I used the term a lot of noise.
There's a lot of noise out there because
you're absolutely there's so many videos
(21:11):
out there you don't know where to start.
And again when working with our
learners and our student population,
it's really important.
Same post.
Into appropriate.
But it was me and may
not be relevant to them.
Yes,
there's an activity in there around students,
self regulated and that themselves and
identify what's useful and relevant to them.
But no, you're absolutely right in
terms of the quality of video content.
I've noticed significantly improved
over the last two to three years.
(21:32):
But there's a lot of work to be
done there and that space there as
well and making sure that that video
content is accessible there as well.
So,
so I guess conscious time
is racing away from us.
What I'm keeping on pick is
one of the key principles.
A considerable touched upon one or
two there in terms of creating them
and kind of making them relevant.
Are there any other principles to
(21:54):
consider or key measures to consider
when using tools around accessibility?
I think well,
if we go in terms of principles,
if we go to like very kind of high level
um of sort of strategic level is that.
And accessibility involves lots of
different people across a college.
So although we're thinking about,
you know,
(22:15):
perhaps the practitioner's perspective here,
there's a lot of other folks involved
and it requires a lot of join up.
And you're talking about folks because
you mentioned responsibility earlier
and there's like accountability as well.
It's like who's desk is that letter
going to land on when there's a,
you know, an issue?
It's not going to be a lecturer's desk.
It's gonna be someone in senior
(22:37):
management that's that's going to be held.
Countable and but it is everybody
in the organization is responsible,
but you've also got people like
your vile managers and library
and folks procurement.
We've got all these different people that
need to be involved.
So let's say one of the key
principles is working together and
(22:57):
creating a shared vision and plan
for how you're going to do it.
Because again with among staff,
there's going to be some people
who are more confident about
using accessibility checkers.
Or, you know, et cetera and some who.
It, you know, it might be completely
new to them and they might not really
understand why it's important because
they might look at their stuff and think,
(23:18):
well looks OK,
but not realized like that.
Actually it's going to present
barriers to folks.
So what I'd say is the kind of
ultimate thing to crack is getting
some senior management buy in.
Because that's when.
It becomes a priority and like
one of my colleagues often says
(23:38):
who works in kind of strategy,
it's like if this isn't important.
To the people in leadership,
why should it be important to me?
You know, so it needs that leadership,
ownership and then at that point as well,
then you get, you know,
you're more likely to get time
and resources released for it.
So what we do at Jisc with
colleges and you know we don't,
(23:59):
we don't charge for this
we we offer a workshop.
To people working in colleges
called Vision for accessibility.
And a large part of that is actually
getting all the key people together.
You know, it's we say around the table,
but it's around the teams room
because it's online, but it's,
it's to make sure everybody's
actually got shared vision.
(24:20):
And you know where they can actually
support each other and create a road map.
So I would say that's the number one thing.
Um is joined up approach with UM
leadership buy in is is absolutely key.
I think that's where the colleges
that do this well,
that's what they're doing.
Otherwise you'll get like little pockets
(24:41):
of good practice and then other areas
that are just completely neglected so.
That's absolutely key.
I think the other thing is,
um, like you were,
you know,
sort of keen to emphasize as well is that
we have tools at our fingertips that we
don't have to pay for that can support us.
Um,
so you've got the inbuilt tools
(25:02):
in Microsoft Office.
There's also lots of other free ones as well.
And we direct people to lots of free
stuff and approaches in a guide.
We do lots of online guidance,
but probably our best starting
point is if you just Google.
Practical steps um to meeting
accessibility regulations from Jisc
(25:22):
and that gives you lots of links to
free checkers and and things that
help you generate your statement
and things like that as well.
And the third principle I would
say as well is beyond your college
is the best way to find out how
to do something is talking to
people who've already done it.
So that's why we facilitate,
(25:43):
we do loads of community stuff.
We've got an absolute
massive community in teams.
I think at the moment it's got 1400
users on there with about, I don't know,
I've got about 20 channels at least
of like for different subjects,
you know there's, there's.
We've got channels for all
sorts of different things. Um.
But we also do online drop in
(26:05):
clinics and got mailing lists as
well if that's something you prefer.
We've got ideas rooms um which are
done in zoom where people just come
along and chat and we're also um
for this year we're developing and
buddying and as a as an approach
like between organizations to
help you know that facilitate
(26:26):
that peer-to-peer support and
learning and Co production as well.
So I would say you know.
My kind of third big principle is
just get stuck in the accessibility
and assistive technology.
Communities are really friendly,
really generous with their knowledge
and it's like if you know nothing,
you're just as welcome as someone
(26:48):
who's like a tip top expert.
And we do loads of stuff around
that and it doesn't cost anything.
Like all the things we've been
talking about today comes,
you know, provided by Jisc um,
it's it doesn't cost,
doesn't cost you anything.
It's all inclusive or you're just membership.
No,
I think that's a really good point
to kind of share because it's a
lot of people will be aware of
just but they won't know what
(27:09):
they do and how they can benefit
individuals and their rules.
And as you rightly mentioned it
structures practitioners as a whole
host different roles across college
sector that can be mindful of this.
No, I think that's really important.
So yeah,
I I would implore listeners to do
that to 1st to kind of have a look at
the just website and understand a bit
more about kind of what's available,
what's on offer but no.
And then secondly,
(27:29):
totally agree, talk to people,
learn,
share magpie from each other collaborating.
You know all those different aspects
there because it's a common challenge.
It's a common problem that we can
only kind of learn from each other
and and kind of work individuals
who work collaboratively to kind
of to address accessibility issues
and try and help make what about
puts you will up your website
(27:50):
whether it be a learning experience
as accessible as possible.
But oh, well,
Kelly,
thank you Rotary your time and we've
just got magic complete that within time.
Then I think we're finished on a
really positive note in the sense
of there's a load of tools out
there to kind of go and look at.
And again,
I'll just kind of repeat really
what you've said in the sense
of the starting point for you,
if you can read it.
Keen,
is the Google just practical steps
(28:10):
to meeting accessibility because
I've done that from the website.
There's lots of information there,
but also your details from
there to kind of get
in touch with and you and your
colleagues and support listeners.
So Kelly, fantastic.
Thank you for your time and look forward
to catch up again in the near future.
OK. Thanks very much, son.
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