August 25, 2023 • 24 mins
In this episode, we chat with Paddy Shepperd from Jisc around the emergence of generative AI services such as ChatGPT, and how lecturers and students can respond to opportunities and challenges. Part 1 offers an overview of the technology and what to expect from the new suite of tools coming online.
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(00:06):
Hello and welcome to the latestepisode of the Pedagogy Madness
podcast. The purpose of thispodcast is to bring to the fore
some key topics of conversationin relation to learning and
teaching, to discuss breakdownaspects of practise and provide
snippets of advice and guidanceas to how we can integrate these
as part of our daily practise.Today I'm delighted to be joined
with Paddy Sheppard from JISC.We'll be discussing all things
related to AI. Paddy, goodmorning. How are you? Good
(00:28):
morning. I'm very well, thankyou. How are you? Yes, great
thanks. So Paddy, obviously Iknow we had a chat in a prior to
this, but it would be quiteuseful for our listeners to
understand. But of your
context, what your role is itdisc, but also what your rules
were prior if that's OK withyourself that sounds good. Yeah,
I have an Artificialintelligence and senior
specialist at JESC UM so lookingat all things educational and
(00:51):
AI. But my background beforecoming up to Jack was computing
and IT lecturer in a furthereducation college, teaching from
entry one right the way upthrough to HND. And also I've
been a teaching and learningmentor looking at digital
technologies and how we can usethem to improve and enhance our
teaching, learning andassessment practise. So working
(01:12):
with staff, CPD,
trying to upskill our digitalcapabilities, but also thinking
about is the tool right? How canwe use it best to support our
learners. So bit of a variedbackground, but definitely a big
interest in this area.
No, that sounds fantastic party.You know, I think the thing I
jumped out to me is it's it'sthat context of 1 working within
(01:32):
the sector, which is hugelyimportant, but certainly across
the breadth of levels there aswell. And for our Scottish
colleagues, entry one isequipment CQ level one level 2,
you know it's right across thespectrum of of levels, which is
great. So let's kick it off. SoI think to kick off with I think
let's explore.
Well, could you give us a broadoverview as to what is meant by
generative AI and kind of howit's impacting on education?
(01:55):
Absolutely. So we've had a I fora number of years artificial
intelligence and understandingwhat that's impacting us and our
lives. But it it has changed,it's moved up to generative AI.
And I think the simplest waythat I've been understanding and
looking into it and explainingto people is we've had AI things
like predictive text, spellcheckers. But now we've got
(02:15):
generative AI which is toolssuch as ChatGPT barred. And what
they can do is you can ask themquestions and they will search
through large language modelsand come back with a number of
results. But it isn't just likeGoogle. It will come back with
it, will think about it and itwill return a number of
results such as text, images,and it will generate, uh,
(02:35):
context based on all the datasets that it has. So we've even
got video now that it cangenerate and it can create the
think of generative AI assomething that it can create
from a number of prompts thatyou put into it. No, I think
that's interesting because again
a straw poll of conversationsI've had over the last month or
(02:56):
so is that when looking atScottish sector and this is
probably no different in thissector, only 10 or 15% of
individuals in the workforce areactually comfortable or
confident with what's meant by aI. And even that word generative
AI is, is a term not used by themasses. And you're absolutely
right that it does exactly whatit says in the tin. It helps to
generate new content andinformation. So I think that's
(03:17):
really interesting and howsorry, go on thinking about what
it is and actually a breaking itdown I think, yeah.
And then the next bit is, sofrom your experience or your
interactions, how is thatstarting to impact education.
So this year I've been workingfor Jessica and also previously
teaching in an Fe college. SoI've seen it from the learner's
point of view as well as seeingwhat technology is coming out
(03:40):
and trying to review those. Sofrom a from a point of view and
and how it might affect teachingand learning I think and and I
have seen that it will impactlearners in a positive way. It
will impact our our, our ways toto assess them. But there there
are a number of differentlearning stages that we can
think about. So at the momentgenerative, I can check
understanding and learning. Forexample could use it to check
(04:03):
their understanding on a topic,type in in in a question and try
and get an answer.
It also can give adaptivelearning techniques. So for
example learner could beanswering multiple choice
question and it will give them amastery path learning with
personalised learning and notjust give them another set of
questions, it might point themto a more, it will give them a
(04:26):
more detailed information so youcan keep it can keep adapting
the learning style of thelearning for the learner for
personalised learning. What itcan also do is we can get our
learners to research throughChachi TGP T sorry, it can check
their understanding. So that'squick summary of something
instead of having the old
is that helps the library thatread around the topic. In
(04:48):
previous years they would go onto Google and they might then
read through a number ofarticles. It's got the risk
there because it might give themincorrect information just like
Google could. But for thelearning and and their learning
stage, it's another tool thatthey can use. We've also got
another thing in my own practiseand seeing it. When I went to
university and studied computingand IT, social media really
(05:11):
wasn't a very big thing. Now inmy own teaching in the last few
years I've had to teach a coupleof units as my background,
computing in social media andunderstanding analytics and
things like that. So I've used
use AI in general I understandthe topic better. IT teachers
often do find like our subjectschange and they modernise and we
have to keep up so it can fillin the gaps for us as well. I've
(05:33):
seen my teaching assistants inthe classroom as well who
haven't necessarily got abackground in my subject area,
but they're there to supportlearners and are there to to
help them with assignments andbreaking down topics. But I've
seen my teaching assistantsusing tap GPT and they have
packed in the the topic. They'vequickly read through it and then
(05:53):
they're able to sit with thatlearner and and and identify
what the learner is trying toidentify
so they can fill in their gapsquite quickly. Which I just saw
my teaching assistant doing thisI thought fantastic I didn't
have any time to necessarily sitwith him in that minute but they
popped on they got thatinformation and then they were
able to help the learner So theyfelt more comfortable in the
(06:16):
classroom. So there's a numberof ways that we can use it.
Thinking about it I I learnerswe've spoken about for a number
of years of blended learning andlearners seem to access content
24/7. While this also assiststhat we've got our virtual
learning environments canvas,Moodle, blackboard, whichever
we're using well, we've got astatic resources but
the only thing with set resourcelike a Word document or
(06:39):
presentation. It may be out ofdate, it may it may need
updating and the learner canthen look at us as it resources
and they can go and check theirunderstanding or they can go and
find out more information forit. There are even tools now for
in PowerPoint that will becoming through that it will give
real subtitles real time. So AIhas been able to adapt what let
(06:59):
the content that learners havething because a learner could
sit there and say their Englishas second language, they could
be used in the PowerPoint andthey could then be translating a
bit quicker. So they don'tnecessarily need a translator
to translate a document before alesson. They can look at before
the lesson, translate it, have aread through it and then go into
(07:20):
the lesson better, preparebetter prepared. So it's it's
it's adapting it and it'sthinking about how we use as
teachers. We've been here beforewith Google, when technology
when it came through, we've hadcahoots. We've had you know a
number of different toolsavailable to us. But it's
thinking about how we use it. Ithink the really important thing
and there is a a worry aroundit, it's thinking about our
(07:41):
what's ethical, what's correct.We need to talk to our leaders
about their ethical and theirunderstanding of it. Absolutely.
And within that, I'm going tosay that briefing,
well that you've covered a wholehost of different topics, which
I guess, listen, we're going tounpick a little bit in more
detail as as we progress withthis conversation. But I think
that's really interesting aroundassessment, around ethics. And
(08:01):
again my
perception at the minute or whencan I instruct of individuals
across the sector is there arequite a few different spectrums
in terms of people, Yeah, loveit, get it. It's for me. I
embrace it. As you just saidthere, I think the others who
are want to know but don't quiteknow where to start. And
there'll be others thinking,well, it's a new fad, it's not
(08:22):
for me and so on and so forth.And I think that's really
interesting when working withpeople. And I think going back
to the starting points, oneyou're absolutely right there.
One, it's a tool. It's anothertool that we can use. However,
my view is that it's slightlydifferent to other tools because
of how vast this is and
that's reaching across quite afew different platforms. You
(08:42):
kind of you alluded to co-pilotthere. I think in terms of
PowerPoint and so on and soforth, you've kind of referenced
CHPT. So I think
looking more holistically at howeducators can use this, you've
touched on a couple of pointsthere in terms of how it could
be used a little bit kind ofpart of Eagles and how physical.
But are you seeing and is it Iguess your view that
(09:03):
one it's the estate and two weneed to work through and I guess
practise and train ourselves asto how it could be used as part
of our practise
and we trial and error and weimplement it and we we take
forward nut base is that a fairassumption. That is a fair
assumption yeah. It's likeanything that comes along you we
(09:24):
have to evaluate it to thinkabout it and we have to look at
the risks but also understandthe benefits and then how to use
it and what impact will it haveon on teaching learning
assessment but it definitelyhere today. Absolutely. I mean
we've got at the moment we'repiloting a trial with a with a
tool called teacher Matic. This,this, this tool traumatic uses
(09:46):
AI, generative AI and itgenerates content such as lesson
plans,
teaching resources, quizzes. Nowfor me as a teacher to jump onto
a tool like that where I cantype in a topic, I can type in
topic and it will generate 10quick questions. I could use
that as a formal assessment veryquickly or just to give me
information about how well mylearners are understanding the
(10:07):
topic because that's essentiallywhat we're there for. But it's
done it nice and quickly. I cangive that to my learners in the
classroom or outside of theclassroom as well. So it gets
that blended learning, but wecan give that to them, we can
analyse it. But instead of mehaving to write those questions
when I've got you know, tenother topics to teach
example, it will generate them.I quickly check through them,
(10:30):
make sure that they're correct.I then can build my teaching
from there so I can look at thegaps and then I can build it
from there. Um, you've also gottools that will take websites,
so within for example theteacher Matic, a pilot at the
moment, you can put in a websitesuch as a building regulations
for Scotland website and it willread the website and it will
(10:52):
come out with a list ofquestions. So again, if you're
learning, I don't know in healthand safety for construction or
childcare, you can put in the inin the regulating authority
website and it will generate
some content, some questionsfrom assessments. We know that
learners like exploring asthey're learning, they do not
want to just listen to us goingthrough a PowerPoint about this
(11:13):
regulation, but it's a way of ofmaking it more enjoyable for
learners. But I don't then haveto spend many hours and time
creating that from from thatwebsite that updates every year.
That changes all the time. Sothis is thinking about how we
use it and what impact it'sgoing to have. Absolutely. So
you'll you'll, you'll secondpart there where you said about
AI today it is changingconstantly and I think there's a
(11:36):
bit of fear for us that we'rethinking how are we going to use
this? Will it take away ourjobs?
Absolutely not. The one thingI've noticed since COVID is my
learners need more one to onetime. And if I've got something
that's reducing my workload inpreparing resources and
analysing their data and tryingto fill in their gap, I can then
spend more time. And I've seenit this year where I have to
spend more time with thoselearners as they've needed that
(11:58):
one to one attention. Butactually I've got five other
students in the other part ofthe class who have identified
the previous week or for theirhomework through the questions
that they've gone and done thatthey need a bit more, they need
to fill in the gaps. So they'vebeen working on that. And then
I've been able to have moremeaningful conversations and
discussions with my learners onthe other side of the classroom.
So
(12:18):
it's it's using it in that wayand trying to utilise it. I
think the other thing we have tothink back to is that when our
learners are using thistechnology, because they are,
they're already using it. I'vehad a number of learners already
using this. It's it's givingthem that, that understanding
that this won't be alwayscorrect. They have to critically
(12:40):
analyse it. Is this correct? Youneed to go away and research
this and come back and actuallyis it giving you the right
answers? It will throw outmistakes in mathematical
calculations. Sometimes it willthrow out mistakes. But what you
could do is
do an activity like ask thelearner's right. Let's
brainstorm a topic in theclassroom talking about climate
(13:01):
change. What are the 10 majorfactors around the world causing
climate change? We have adiscussion about it and then
they could go away and quicklydo use gentle of AI and they
could quickly check what it'ssaying and then they come back
and review if there's any biasin there. Is it based on one
part of the world? Why is itcoming out with that? And then
they could also do some otherresearch to find out. So it's
(13:23):
putting it back on them. So it'sthat exploration or learning,
but also it's then having adiscussion of bringing people
back in together. I think wehave to
educate learners how to use itand but there will be more
generative AI with tools comingthrough like Teacher Matic where
you where it will producecontent for us. We don't need to
worry about the prompt thatwe're putting into it. It will
(13:46):
come out with that content. Sothanks. Thanks. There's so much
in that which you're absolutelyright and I'm the first point
I'm going to come to is abouttime
and reference this and I'm sureevery conversation with um,
individuals involved education.Time is a big barrier and I came
through and I worked for surveylast year. You're absolutely
right that when utilisedeffectively, this could be a
(14:09):
method to free up more time onefrom a personal perspective as
as a practitioner, but for me,more meaningfully around the
interactions with students.Again, you stole my Thunder. And
for those that haven't listened,got two episodes earlier on in
the series, episode 2 andepisode 9, which talked about
the importance of relationshipsand the importance of kind of
meaningful interactions and youabsolutely hit the nail on the
(14:29):
head there. But this could beanother method which frees up
more time as a practitioner formeaningful
and effective interactions withstudents ever on a a small group
basis or want one basis. But Ithink what's really important is
that this is not seen byindividuals as a quick fix it
it. It's seen as that kind ofwider holistic curriculum
delivery or part of yourcurriculum delivery as to how
(14:51):
you can use tech, AI and othermeans as well to build your
curriculum and help deliver yourcurriculum there as well. Which
I know is kind of what you'relooking to. But I think it's
really important to kind of useas a pause point for individuals
to reflect on, I think actuallyhow do I do that.
Yeah the teacher if you domainexplaining just a little bit
more that's one too as manytools out there. But teacher map
(15:13):
is 1/2 in particular as you canexplain a little bit. So for
those I've never seen it before,what does it do and what does it
look like. So it's a websiteplatform that you can type in. I
would like 5 objectives for. Idon't know one of my topics
would have been human ComputerInteraction and the impact on
society and it will come outwith a Lesson plan. It will give
(15:34):
you ideas. I know that I'vestruggled in the past. I've
talked for 1213 years wheresometimes to to jazz it up as
they say and to make some topics
a bit more interesting. You'vestruggled with and you get in
your own patterns but you cantype into there. Give me a
Lesson plan for human computerinteraction at the impacts on
society and it will come outwith some suggestions. So you
(15:56):
you might not take all of them.We're human, we want to use our
own in our own teaching practisebut that saved me time, that
saves me research time. Thatgives me a few ideas to go from
and then I might go on some somewebsites and then create a quick
like questions from one of thewebsites for example. I even
typed into into it one of my,you know, my unit spec from the
(16:16):
qualification body and it cameout with a few learning outcomes
questions. Those are saving metime. That is the my summer
normally. Another thing that youcould use generative AI for is
giving feedback, marking, givingfeedback. It is there so it can
actually mark work. At themoment. This will be separate
from teacher but there's othertools coming out at the moment
(16:39):
and we had a Grady
pilot that that that wecompleted from the DISC National
Centre for ArtificialIntelligence. But what they can
actually look at work and it canlook for keywords and it can
quickly mark it. Learners wanttheir feedback quite quickly. We
all for me the the the go to wasin a way in multiple choice
questions but then that can getquite dull as well for learners.
(17:02):
So it's about that variety butif you've got someone that can
mark their work nice and quicklyyou would have I would check it
through it quickly but not haveto mark the whole piece
certainly for just a formativeassessment. I can. They can get
their feedback quicker. We canfill in those gaps
quicker. Workload is reduced.You can even use gentle AI to
write reports. Now that's alwaysone thing every year. I know
(17:25):
I've got my UCAS personalstatements to write. I've got my
course reports to write. I'vegot my student reports to write
a couple of 3-4 times a year,parents evening. And it's
keeping on top of that whenyou've got high numbers of
learners, but you can use it togive you general comments as
well. So when you're running outof class and then you're
suddenly got parents evening,but you know you get your
reports in by Friday becausethey need to go out. It's it
(17:47):
could sit on there for 10minutes and quickly try and
generate a couple of my reports.So they're done dusted. I've got
10 out the way and broken itdown in that way.
I understand workloadabsolutely, but it's using these
tools to reduce that. I know mylearners have loved, for
example, Kahoot in the classroomthey get competitive or quizzes
and they're and they're reallyenjoying it. I like those
(18:08):
because I can quickly edit oneof those and I know they've been
around for a number of years andit's humans in entering those
questions in. But we always haveto rely on someone else who's
already made those questions,whereas this will analyse A
specification, analyse the theprompts I've put into it and
then it will push out thosequestions. So it's thinking
about that assessment but alsoreducing our workloads. So for
(18:30):
me, it's reduced workload forme, from the point of view of
reducing resources, creatingengaging resources, a number of
additional resources tocomplement what I've already
got, but also that assessmentand then report writing as well.
And then I, as I say by teachingassistant, I can't, I couldn't,
I didn't ask the teachingassistants to it and I was
amazed and really pleased. But Ididn't have to fill in their
(18:53):
gap, if you see what I'm saying.So it benefits all.
No, I totally agree. I thinkfrom conversation colleagues
again who are I'm gonna say lesstacky and I'm not the most
technical. Our latest cannot'sgoing on it. It's very iterative
in the sense of you can kind ofpick up quite quickly and you
can kind of really refine yourskills. There's lots of work
there to be done. But in thesame breath it's not as scary as
(19:14):
people think. I think going backto the point prior and kind of
admin task report rating this,that and the other. Hopefully
for me this will can also askbeg some questions as to what is
the purpose of some of thoseactivities there as well because
I know some some aspects that wewe we like doing, some we don't
some of there just for becausethey've been there for a while,
you know. So for me it's thatwider
conversation room kind of whatwe do and why we do what has an
(19:37):
impact. But I totally agree forsome admin task and I always go
back to me in the sense of andthis was kind of my poor
practise I guess is a lecturerassignment. Feedback for me took
me a lot of time to write up andthen in the end I could develop
my own templates and made themquite generic
because that's what I had to dobecause of the sheer volume
assessment feedback, we'll comeup assessment shortly, but yes,
(20:00):
this could reduce that that thatadmin burden for me. But also at
the same time as timeprogressed, I always kind of
thought from how much time do Iput on the importance of that
feedback. So for me some of thebroader conversation on that
around report writing aroundthis and the other might
actually be some questions towhy do we do what we do if it's
taking away time from havingmeaningful interactions with
(20:20):
students and so forth. So whatI'm conscious of, we've got
quite a bit of talk through Ithink the assessment and ethics
conversation. We were apart forthe next episode, I think.
To bring to a close this firstbit, in terms of introduction,
purpose, principles, practise,sort of generative, I
right? I'm a lecturer. Where doI start?
I think it's first getting anunderstanding of generative AI
(20:44):
and just thinking, OK, thisgenerates something, so get an
understanding of that. Readaround the topic quickly,
There's lots out there. Theother disc we've produced, the
National Centre for AI, we'veproduced on our web website a
number of simple, quick examplesof how generative AI can be
used. We've also produced an AIprimer. We're looking at where
(21:07):
it will go with education andthat's a really useful article
to read. It's looking at whatpeople are doing with it top ten
ways lecturers are using it.
Given a couple of examples andand it does sound more
complicated than it actually is.I would I would quickly set up
an account on a ChatGPT orbarred or whichever you wish to
(21:27):
use because there are a numberand have a play around with it.
Ask questions. A good one couldbe to ask questions about
yourself or ask questions aboutthe college there's just to
check if it is coming out withright wrong sort of topics. Have
a play with it yourself I wouldsay and then you then go up and
get a bit more confident and putin there. Create for me a number
(21:49):
of questions based on humancomputer interaction and
society. As I as I
use it, have a play with it andthen see what comes out. Don't
be afraid of it. It sounds morescarier than it is.
Great thank you and and forcolleagues I listen we'll put
links to the websites of Paddy'sreference there within the
description of the podcast thereas well and obviously support
(22:09):
some aspects of this and we aredelivering some workshops at
Expo which will have taken placeby time as this goes out there
of some different bits ofpractise. Then as a colleague
from Ayrshire who has developedhis own Lesson plan template to
put in ChatGPT. But no, Itotally agree. And I think yeah
where I started was my subjectarea and it was tell me about
this and I can again as youalluded to I provide some
(22:30):
information from the the corespecification and that's to
provide some content in this asksome questions. Some bits were
great.
Well that's great. And also justfor reference, we'll we'll put a
link in the chat as well to anevent we held on March which at
a colleague from Jack Wilshereand kind of how how the
technology actually works and insome cases it predicts the next
(22:51):
word. It kind of works one wordat a time predicts that next
word which is really interestingto understand how it helps to
generate, as we said at the verystart there. So I think yeah the
best way to do it is playaround. We had a colleague
yesterday on a call from Mortonwho's experienced the at a
conference. She went we had aplay and her mind was blown with
(23:11):
how great it was but also howsimple it was. But I guess my
my lasting message to anybodythat's still with us at this
point is really around. Won'tyou have to play with it? So it
doesn't give you the perfectanswer. You need to own it
and that was my concern ispeople say yeah yeah useful
lesson planning or use teachermath to go or use whatever. It's
it's not going to provide youthe ready made solution but
(23:33):
it'll take you sixty 7080% ofthe way there to that end
product and allows you to putyour own stamp on it in some
cases there as well. And quizquestions particularly multiple
choice questions are incrediblydifficult to write whereas
actually this does that reallywell for you, you know. So there
are absolute tools that'sfantastic. But it does need
sense checked. It does need onthere as well.
Absolutely. Just sense checkingit using our professional
(23:55):
knowledge and our topics and ourour background just to double
check. It always is the way togo.
Fantastic. Well, thanks to thatparty will have to read insight
And for listeners please tuneback in to the next bit will
kind of be focusing onassessment and ethics and we
support that so too
about.
Hello and welcome to the latestepisode of the Pedagogy Madness
podcast. The purpose of thispodcast is to bring to the fore
some key topics of conversationin relation to learning and
teaching, to discuss breakdownaspects of practise and provide
snippets of advice and guidanceas to how we can integrate these
as part of our daily practise.Today I'm delighted to be joined
with Paddy Sheppard from JISC.We'll be discussing all things
related to AI. Paddy, goodmorning. How are you? Good
(00:28):
morning. I'm very well, thankyou. How are you? Yes, great
thanks. So Paddy, obviously Iknow we had a chat in a prior to
this, but it would be quiteuseful for our listeners to
understand. But of your
context, what your role is itdisc, but also what your rules
were prior if that's OK withyourself that sounds good. Yeah,
I have an Artificialintelligence and senior
specialist at JESC UM so lookingat all things educational and
(00:51):
AI. But my background beforecoming up to Jack was computing
and IT lecturer in a furthereducation college, teaching from
entry one right the way upthrough to HND. And also I've
been a teaching and learningmentor looking at digital
technologies and how we can usethem to improve and enhance our
teaching, learning andassessment practise. So working
(01:12):
with staff, CPD,
trying to upskill our digitalcapabilities, but also thinking
about is the tool right? How canwe use it best to support our
learners. So bit of a variedbackground, but definitely a big
interest in this area.
No, that sounds fantastic party.You know, I think the thing I
jumped out to me is it's it'sthat context of 1 working within
(01:32):
the sector, which is hugelyimportant, but certainly across
the breadth of levels there aswell. And for our Scottish
colleagues, entry one isequipment CQ level one level 2,
you know it's right across thespectrum of of levels, which is
great. So let's kick it off. SoI think to kick off with I think
let's explore.
Well, could you give us a broadoverview as to what is meant by
generative AI and kind of howit's impacting on education?
(01:55):
Absolutely. So we've had a I fora number of years artificial
intelligence and understandingwhat that's impacting us and our
lives. But it it has changed,it's moved up to generative AI.
And I think the simplest waythat I've been understanding and
looking into it and explainingto people is we've had AI things
like predictive text, spellcheckers. But now we've got
(02:15):
generative AI which is toolssuch as ChatGPT barred. And what
they can do is you can ask themquestions and they will search
through large language modelsand come back with a number of
results. But it isn't just likeGoogle. It will come back with
it, will think about it and itwill return a number of
results such as text, images,and it will generate, uh,
(02:35):
context based on all the datasets that it has. So we've even
got video now that it cangenerate and it can create the
think of generative AI assomething that it can create
from a number of prompts thatyou put into it. No, I think
that's interesting because again
a straw poll of conversationsI've had over the last month or
(02:56):
so is that when looking atScottish sector and this is
probably no different in thissector, only 10 or 15% of
individuals in the workforce areactually comfortable or
confident with what's meant by aI. And even that word generative
AI is, is a term not used by themasses. And you're absolutely
right that it does exactly whatit says in the tin. It helps to
generate new content andinformation. So I think that's
(03:17):
really interesting and howsorry, go on thinking about what
it is and actually a breaking itdown I think, yeah.
And then the next bit is, sofrom your experience or your
interactions, how is thatstarting to impact education.
So this year I've been workingfor Jessica and also previously
teaching in an Fe college. SoI've seen it from the learner's
point of view as well as seeingwhat technology is coming out
(03:40):
and trying to review those. Sofrom a from a point of view and
and how it might affect teachingand learning I think and and I
have seen that it will impactlearners in a positive way. It
will impact our our, our ways toto assess them. But there there
are a number of differentlearning stages that we can
think about. So at the momentgenerative, I can check
understanding and learning. Forexample could use it to check
(04:03):
their understanding on a topic,type in in in a question and try
and get an answer.
It also can give adaptivelearning techniques. So for
example learner could beanswering multiple choice
question and it will give them amastery path learning with
personalised learning and notjust give them another set of
questions, it might point themto a more, it will give them a
(04:26):
more detailed information so youcan keep it can keep adapting
the learning style of thelearning for the learner for
personalised learning. What itcan also do is we can get our
learners to research throughChachi TGP T sorry, it can check
their understanding. So that'squick summary of something
instead of having the old
is that helps the library thatread around the topic. In
(04:48):
previous years they would go onto Google and they might then
read through a number ofarticles. It's got the risk
there because it might give themincorrect information just like
Google could. But for thelearning and and their learning
stage, it's another tool thatthey can use. We've also got
another thing in my own practiseand seeing it. When I went to
university and studied computingand IT, social media really
(05:11):
wasn't a very big thing. Now inmy own teaching in the last few
years I've had to teach a coupleof units as my background,
computing in social media andunderstanding analytics and
things like that. So I've used
use AI in general I understandthe topic better. IT teachers
often do find like our subjectschange and they modernise and we
have to keep up so it can fillin the gaps for us as well. I've
(05:33):
seen my teaching assistants inthe classroom as well who
haven't necessarily got abackground in my subject area,
but they're there to supportlearners and are there to to
help them with assignments andbreaking down topics. But I've
seen my teaching assistantsusing tap GPT and they have
packed in the the topic. They'vequickly read through it and then
(05:53):
they're able to sit with thatlearner and and and identify
what the learner is trying toidentify
so they can fill in their gapsquite quickly. Which I just saw
my teaching assistant doing thisI thought fantastic I didn't
have any time to necessarily sitwith him in that minute but they
popped on they got thatinformation and then they were
able to help the learner So theyfelt more comfortable in the
(06:16):
classroom. So there's a numberof ways that we can use it.
Thinking about it I I learnerswe've spoken about for a number
of years of blended learning andlearners seem to access content
24/7. While this also assiststhat we've got our virtual
learning environments canvas,Moodle, blackboard, whichever
we're using well, we've got astatic resources but
the only thing with set resourcelike a Word document or
(06:39):
presentation. It may be out ofdate, it may it may need
updating and the learner canthen look at us as it resources
and they can go and check theirunderstanding or they can go and
find out more information forit. There are even tools now for
in PowerPoint that will becoming through that it will give
real subtitles real time. So AIhas been able to adapt what let
(06:59):
the content that learners havething because a learner could
sit there and say their Englishas second language, they could
be used in the PowerPoint andthey could then be translating a
bit quicker. So they don'tnecessarily need a translator
to translate a document before alesson. They can look at before
the lesson, translate it, have aread through it and then go into
(07:20):
the lesson better, preparebetter prepared. So it's it's
it's adapting it and it'sthinking about how we use as
teachers. We've been here beforewith Google, when technology
when it came through, we've hadcahoots. We've had you know a
number of different toolsavailable to us. But it's
thinking about how we use it. Ithink the really important thing
and there is a a worry aroundit, it's thinking about our
(07:41):
what's ethical, what's correct.We need to talk to our leaders
about their ethical and theirunderstanding of it. Absolutely.
And within that, I'm going tosay that briefing,
well that you've covered a wholehost of different topics, which
I guess, listen, we're going tounpick a little bit in more
detail as as we progress withthis conversation. But I think
that's really interesting aroundassessment, around ethics. And
(08:01):
again my
perception at the minute or whencan I instruct of individuals
across the sector is there arequite a few different spectrums
in terms of people, Yeah, loveit, get it. It's for me. I
embrace it. As you just saidthere, I think the others who
are want to know but don't quiteknow where to start. And
there'll be others thinking,well, it's a new fad, it's not
(08:22):
for me and so on and so forth.And I think that's really
interesting when working withpeople. And I think going back
to the starting points, oneyou're absolutely right there.
One, it's a tool. It's anothertool that we can use. However,
my view is that it's slightlydifferent to other tools because
of how vast this is and
that's reaching across quite afew different platforms. You
(08:42):
kind of you alluded to co-pilotthere. I think in terms of
PowerPoint and so on and soforth, you've kind of referenced
CHPT. So I think
looking more holistically at howeducators can use this, you've
touched on a couple of pointsthere in terms of how it could
be used a little bit kind ofpart of Eagles and how physical.
But are you seeing and is it Iguess your view that
(09:03):
one it's the estate and two weneed to work through and I guess
practise and train ourselves asto how it could be used as part
of our practise
and we trial and error and weimplement it and we we take
forward nut base is that a fairassumption. That is a fair
assumption yeah. It's likeanything that comes along you we
(09:24):
have to evaluate it to thinkabout it and we have to look at
the risks but also understandthe benefits and then how to use
it and what impact will it haveon on teaching learning
assessment but it definitelyhere today. Absolutely. I mean
we've got at the moment we'repiloting a trial with a with a
tool called teacher Matic. This,this, this tool traumatic uses
(09:46):
AI, generative AI and itgenerates content such as lesson
plans,
teaching resources, quizzes. Nowfor me as a teacher to jump onto
a tool like that where I cantype in a topic, I can type in
topic and it will generate 10quick questions. I could use
that as a formal assessment veryquickly or just to give me
information about how well mylearners are understanding the
(10:07):
topic because that's essentiallywhat we're there for. But it's
done it nice and quickly. I cangive that to my learners in the
classroom or outside of theclassroom as well. So it gets
that blended learning, but wecan give that to them, we can
analyse it. But instead of mehaving to write those questions
when I've got you know, tenother topics to teach
example, it will generate them.I quickly check through them,
(10:30):
make sure that they're correct.I then can build my teaching
from there so I can look at thegaps and then I can build it
from there. Um, you've also gottools that will take websites,
so within for example theteacher Matic, a pilot at the
moment, you can put in a websitesuch as a building regulations
for Scotland website and it willread the website and it will
(10:52):
come out with a list ofquestions. So again, if you're
learning, I don't know in healthand safety for construction or
childcare, you can put in the inin the regulating authority
website and it will generate
some content, some questionsfrom assessments. We know that
learners like exploring asthey're learning, they do not
want to just listen to us goingthrough a PowerPoint about this
(11:13):
regulation, but it's a way of ofmaking it more enjoyable for
learners. But I don't then haveto spend many hours and time
creating that from from thatwebsite that updates every year.
That changes all the time. Sothis is thinking about how we
use it and what impact it'sgoing to have. Absolutely. So
you'll you'll, you'll secondpart there where you said about
AI today it is changingconstantly and I think there's a
(11:36):
bit of fear for us that we'rethinking how are we going to use
this? Will it take away ourjobs?
Absolutely not. The one thingI've noticed since COVID is my
learners need more one to onetime. And if I've got something
that's reducing my workload inpreparing resources and
analysing their data and tryingto fill in their gap, I can then
spend more time. And I've seenit this year where I have to
spend more time with thoselearners as they've needed that
(11:58):
one to one attention. Butactually I've got five other
students in the other part ofthe class who have identified
the previous week or for theirhomework through the questions
that they've gone and done thatthey need a bit more, they need
to fill in the gaps. So they'vebeen working on that. And then
I've been able to have moremeaningful conversations and
discussions with my learners onthe other side of the classroom.
So
(12:18):
it's it's using it in that wayand trying to utilise it. I
think the other thing we have tothink back to is that when our
learners are using thistechnology, because they are,
they're already using it. I'vehad a number of learners already
using this. It's it's givingthem that, that understanding
that this won't be alwayscorrect. They have to critically
(12:40):
analyse it. Is this correct? Youneed to go away and research
this and come back and actuallyis it giving you the right
answers? It will throw outmistakes in mathematical
calculations. Sometimes it willthrow out mistakes. But what you
could do is
do an activity like ask thelearner's right. Let's
brainstorm a topic in theclassroom talking about climate
(13:01):
change. What are the 10 majorfactors around the world causing
climate change? We have adiscussion about it and then
they could go away and quicklydo use gentle of AI and they
could quickly check what it'ssaying and then they come back
and review if there's any biasin there. Is it based on one
part of the world? Why is itcoming out with that? And then
they could also do some otherresearch to find out. So it's
(13:23):
putting it back on them. So it'sthat exploration or learning,
but also it's then having adiscussion of bringing people
back in together. I think wehave to
educate learners how to use itand but there will be more
generative AI with tools comingthrough like Teacher Matic where
you where it will producecontent for us. We don't need to
worry about the prompt thatwe're putting into it. It will
(13:46):
come out with that content. Sothanks. Thanks. There's so much
in that which you're absolutelyright and I'm the first point
I'm going to come to is abouttime
and reference this and I'm sureevery conversation with um,
individuals involved education.Time is a big barrier and I came
through and I worked for surveylast year. You're absolutely
right that when utilisedeffectively, this could be a
(14:09):
method to free up more time onefrom a personal perspective as
as a practitioner, but for me,more meaningfully around the
interactions with students.Again, you stole my Thunder. And
for those that haven't listened,got two episodes earlier on in
the series, episode 2 andepisode 9, which talked about
the importance of relationshipsand the importance of kind of
meaningful interactions and youabsolutely hit the nail on the
(14:29):
head there. But this could beanother method which frees up
more time as a practitioner formeaningful
and effective interactions withstudents ever on a a small group
basis or want one basis. But Ithink what's really important is
that this is not seen byindividuals as a quick fix it
it. It's seen as that kind ofwider holistic curriculum
delivery or part of yourcurriculum delivery as to how
(14:51):
you can use tech, AI and othermeans as well to build your
curriculum and help deliver yourcurriculum there as well. Which
I know is kind of what you'relooking to. But I think it's
really important to kind of useas a pause point for individuals
to reflect on, I think actuallyhow do I do that.
Yeah the teacher if you domainexplaining just a little bit
more that's one too as manytools out there. But teacher map
(15:13):
is 1/2 in particular as you canexplain a little bit. So for
those I've never seen it before,what does it do and what does it
look like. So it's a websiteplatform that you can type in. I
would like 5 objectives for. Idon't know one of my topics
would have been human ComputerInteraction and the impact on
society and it will come outwith a Lesson plan. It will give
(15:34):
you ideas. I know that I'vestruggled in the past. I've
talked for 1213 years wheresometimes to to jazz it up as
they say and to make some topics
a bit more interesting. You'vestruggled with and you get in
your own patterns but you cantype into there. Give me a
Lesson plan for human computerinteraction at the impacts on
society and it will come outwith some suggestions. So you
(15:56):
you might not take all of them.We're human, we want to use our
own in our own teaching practisebut that saved me time, that
saves me research time. Thatgives me a few ideas to go from
and then I might go on some somewebsites and then create a quick
like questions from one of thewebsites for example. I even
typed into into it one of my,you know, my unit spec from the
(16:16):
qualification body and it cameout with a few learning outcomes
questions. Those are saving metime. That is the my summer
normally. Another thing that youcould use generative AI for is
giving feedback, marking, givingfeedback. It is there so it can
actually mark work. At themoment. This will be separate
from teacher but there's othertools coming out at the moment
(16:39):
and we had a Grady
pilot that that that wecompleted from the DISC National
Centre for ArtificialIntelligence. But what they can
actually look at work and it canlook for keywords and it can
quickly mark it. Learners wanttheir feedback quite quickly. We
all for me the the the go to wasin a way in multiple choice
questions but then that can getquite dull as well for learners.
(17:02):
So it's about that variety butif you've got someone that can
mark their work nice and quicklyyou would have I would check it
through it quickly but not haveto mark the whole piece
certainly for just a formativeassessment. I can. They can get
their feedback quicker. We canfill in those gaps
quicker. Workload is reduced.You can even use gentle AI to
write reports. Now that's alwaysone thing every year. I know
(17:25):
I've got my UCAS personalstatements to write. I've got my
course reports to write. I'vegot my student reports to write
a couple of 3-4 times a year,parents evening. And it's
keeping on top of that whenyou've got high numbers of
learners, but you can use it togive you general comments as
well. So when you're running outof class and then you're
suddenly got parents evening,but you know you get your
reports in by Friday becausethey need to go out. It's it
(17:47):
could sit on there for 10minutes and quickly try and
generate a couple of my reports.So they're done dusted. I've got
10 out the way and broken itdown in that way.
I understand workloadabsolutely, but it's using these
tools to reduce that. I know mylearners have loved, for
example, Kahoot in the classroomthey get competitive or quizzes
and they're and they're reallyenjoying it. I like those
(18:08):
because I can quickly edit oneof those and I know they've been
around for a number of years andit's humans in entering those
questions in. But we always haveto rely on someone else who's
already made those questions,whereas this will analyse A
specification, analyse the theprompts I've put into it and
then it will push out thosequestions. So it's thinking
about that assessment but alsoreducing our workloads. So for
(18:30):
me, it's reduced workload forme, from the point of view of
reducing resources, creatingengaging resources, a number of
additional resources tocomplement what I've already
got, but also that assessmentand then report writing as well.
And then I, as I say by teachingassistant, I can't, I couldn't,
I didn't ask the teachingassistants to it and I was
amazed and really pleased. But Ididn't have to fill in their
(18:53):
gap, if you see what I'm saying.So it benefits all.
No, I totally agree. I thinkfrom conversation colleagues
again who are I'm gonna say lesstacky and I'm not the most
technical. Our latest cannot'sgoing on it. It's very iterative
in the sense of you can kind ofpick up quite quickly and you
can kind of really refine yourskills. There's lots of work
there to be done. But in thesame breath it's not as scary as
(19:14):
people think. I think going backto the point prior and kind of
admin task report rating this,that and the other. Hopefully
for me this will can also askbeg some questions as to what is
the purpose of some of thoseactivities there as well because
I know some some aspects that wewe we like doing, some we don't
some of there just for becausethey've been there for a while,
you know. So for me it's thatwider
conversation room kind of whatwe do and why we do what has an
(19:37):
impact. But I totally agree forsome admin task and I always go
back to me in the sense of andthis was kind of my poor
practise I guess is a lecturerassignment. Feedback for me took
me a lot of time to write up andthen in the end I could develop
my own templates and made themquite generic
because that's what I had to dobecause of the sheer volume
assessment feedback, we'll comeup assessment shortly, but yes,
(20:00):
this could reduce that that thatadmin burden for me. But also at
the same time as timeprogressed, I always kind of
thought from how much time do Iput on the importance of that
feedback. So for me some of thebroader conversation on that
around report writing aroundthis and the other might
actually be some questions towhy do we do what we do if it's
taking away time from havingmeaningful interactions with
(20:20):
students and so forth. So whatI'm conscious of, we've got
quite a bit of talk through Ithink the assessment and ethics
conversation. We were apart forthe next episode, I think.
To bring to a close this firstbit, in terms of introduction,
purpose, principles, practise,sort of generative, I
right? I'm a lecturer. Where doI start?
I think it's first getting anunderstanding of generative AI
(20:44):
and just thinking, OK, thisgenerates something, so get an
understanding of that. Readaround the topic quickly,
There's lots out there. Theother disc we've produced, the
National Centre for AI, we'veproduced on our web website a
number of simple, quick examplesof how generative AI can be
used. We've also produced an AIprimer. We're looking at where
(21:07):
it will go with education andthat's a really useful article
to read. It's looking at whatpeople are doing with it top ten
ways lecturers are using it.
Given a couple of examples andand it does sound more
complicated than it actually is.I would I would quickly set up
an account on a ChatGPT orbarred or whichever you wish to
(21:27):
use because there are a numberand have a play around with it.
Ask questions. A good one couldbe to ask questions about
yourself or ask questions aboutthe college there's just to
check if it is coming out withright wrong sort of topics. Have
a play with it yourself I wouldsay and then you then go up and
get a bit more confident and putin there. Create for me a number
(21:49):
of questions based on humancomputer interaction and
society. As I as I
use it, have a play with it andthen see what comes out. Don't
be afraid of it. It sounds morescarier than it is.
Great thank you and and forcolleagues I listen we'll put
links to the websites of Paddy'sreference there within the
description of the podcast thereas well and obviously support
(22:09):
some aspects of this and we aredelivering some workshops at
Expo which will have taken placeby time as this goes out there
of some different bits ofpractise. Then as a colleague
from Ayrshire who has developedhis own Lesson plan template to
put in ChatGPT. But no, Itotally agree. And I think yeah
where I started was my subjectarea and it was tell me about
this and I can again as youalluded to I provide some
(22:30):
information from the the corespecification and that's to
provide some content in this asksome questions. Some bits were
great.
Well that's great. And also justfor reference, we'll we'll put a
link in the chat as well to anevent we held on March which at
a colleague from Jack Wilshereand kind of how how the
technology actually works and insome cases it predicts the next
(22:51):
word. It kind of works one wordat a time predicts that next
word which is really interestingto understand how it helps to
generate, as we said at the verystart there. So I think yeah the
best way to do it is playaround. We had a colleague
yesterday on a call from Mortonwho's experienced the at a
conference. She went we had aplay and her mind was blown with
(23:11):
how great it was but also howsimple it was. But I guess my
my lasting message to anybodythat's still with us at this
point is really around. Won'tyou have to play with it? So it
doesn't give you the perfectanswer. You need to own it
and that was my concern ispeople say yeah yeah useful
lesson planning or use teachermath to go or use whatever. It's
it's not going to provide youthe ready made solution but
(23:33):
it'll take you sixty 7080% ofthe way there to that end
product and allows you to putyour own stamp on it in some
cases there as well. And quizquestions particularly multiple
choice questions are incrediblydifficult to write whereas
actually this does that reallywell for you, you know. So there
are absolute tools that'sfantastic. But it does need
sense checked. It does need onthere as well.
Absolutely. Just sense checkingit using our professional
(23:55):
knowledge and our topics and ourour background just to double
check. It always is the way togo.
Fantastic. Well, thanks to thatparty will have to read insight
And for listeners please tuneback in to the next bit will
kind of be focusing onassessment and ethics and we
support that so too
about.
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