March 19, 2025 • 28 mins
From purchasing his first CNC machine with no prior experience to building a successful manufacturing business with 14 machines and 10 employees, Ian shares his journey of calculated risk-taking and growth.
• Starting with a small 1,500 square foot facility and expanding to a 14,000 square foot building
• Learning the complex world of CNC machining through manufacturer support and networking
• Creating systems to replicate knowledge and remove himself from day-to-day operations
• Finding significant company growth during 2020 when many businesses struggled
• Building a professional network through NTMA to overcome the isolation of entrepreneurship
• Developing effective hiring practices through trial and error
• Balancing business growth with family life and keeping work stress away from home
• Manufacturing's biggest threat: young people not knowing the trade exists
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Ian, we are back at it.
We had some great conversationsin part one about your story
through teaching and startinginto offering a product that
turned into a production company.
But let's talk about thatjourney of when you bought your
first machine and how it tookoff, and we'll get a picture of
(00:24):
what your company looks like now.
So continue your story of yourjourney of when you bought that
first machine.
Is this machine sitting in yourgarage at this point, or what
does it look like for you?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So the first machine was not sitting in my garage.
I actually had a small, wellcommercial location that I was
renting from another businessowner in town.
It was about 1,500 square feet,so 1,500 square feet,
essentially a large garage, buthad industrial power and that
(00:57):
sort of thing, and that waswhere a lot of the fulfillment
stuff was going on for the otheremployees prior to getting the
CNC machine, and so that waskind of a pivotal point as well
about you know, hey, can I putan industrial machine in here?
And the landlord was likeabsolutely you can, let's do it,
(01:18):
let's go for it.
You know it took time toresearch builders to find the
correct machine, to ultimatelyget paired up with the correct
company that was able to take anovice under their wing and have
the resources available to meand a place where I could ask
(01:40):
silly questions and feel likethat I couldn't get somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So was your manufacturer one of your leading
education points, or was thereanother resource that you could
go to for education?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So it was.
It was not the manufacturer,the original manufacturer.
They were making those on theparts that I was buying on a
completely different machinethat I ended up buying due to
the.
I needed a one size fits allmachine and so it led me to a
little bit larger form factormachine.
And for your listeners thatwould want to know what I got, I
(02:17):
mean I got a twin spindle, twinturret, y axis laid with bar
feeder, high pressure, coolpressure coolant, I mean the
whole shebang uh, as a firstmachine.
So you know, an eight axismachine is what I cut my teeth
on.
And that was really interestingconversations with with other
(02:37):
other machines, tool builders.
Uh, when they were asking youknow what's your experience in
cnc?
And I said, well, I don't haveany and they go, well, we're not
going to sell you a machine.
So the company that ended upworking with me and really just
treating me really, really wellfor a new person was Machine
Tool Specialties out of Oklahomaand, matter of fact, they're
(03:02):
members of the NTMA as well.
So I see them frequently atevents and those guys class act
people.
Nothing bad to say about theirbusiness.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That's amazing.
So this was in 2017?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
2017.
Yeah, the first machine in 2017.
And then, with their help, withtheir guidance, they were able
to take the machine into theirfloor, help spec out some tools
and prove out some programs.
Then they brought me down toTulsa, showed me how to run the
machine on a program that theyhad written for me and
(03:38):
essentially turnkey for thebread and butter part.
Uh, that was that was needed,uh, for it to run.
And then we're just networkingand asking a lot of questions,
and tooling reps coming throughthe shop started to meet and and
learn from other individuals inthe manufacturing area, just
(04:00):
locally and for whatever reason.
They treated me really well andwe were blessed with the
information they were able toshare.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So from the time that you plug in your machine in
your 1500 square foot shop time,that you are fully providing
all of your products in house.
How big of a gap was thattransition?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Actual time or how long did it feel it felt like a
hundred years Actual time mayhave, I mean I, I mean it was
making decent parts within thefirst three, four weeks of being
on the floor, but it was aturnkey.
You know part Um, but I wasstill still learning how to run
(04:48):
the tools, still learning how toget to a life.
You know just all the stuff youcontinually learn in a shop, um
, and paying a lot of stupid tax.
Um, I didn't know what I didn'tknow and really just trying to
learn and fail forward.
And there was a lot of failure.
Luckily there was nothing thatwas detrimental to the machine.
(05:10):
I didn't really damage it much.
I mean I've crashed it, but itwasn't anything that was, you
know, machine ending or lifeending for that machine.
So that's, that's been good.
And then just continued todesign parts and prototype and
work, and work, and work at it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So at this point you've got two fulfillment
people you're running themachine.
Was your wife helping with thecompany at all, or was she
responsible for her stuff andand you were running this on
your own?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, no, she wasn't.
She wasn't um much in theday-to-day operations of
business, so she would stillwork her full-time job and then
and then we wouldn't blend muchof that, I think, for our sanity
.
Um, so yeah, that's how thingswere.
She wasn't in the business on aday-to-day basis.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So when was your next hire and what was the role you
hired?
Because right now you're theoperator flawed as you might be
operating at this point, butwhat did it look like to grow at
this point to add additionalteam members?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, so really what I ended up doing was, before
adding additional team members,I ended up adding some more
equipment.
So then I added a secondmachine in that small
1,500-square-foot facility andwas able to still crank more
volume out of there.
And I had some part-time peoplethat would sprinkle in and
(06:42):
would help us when things gotbusy out of there and, you know,
had some part-time people thatwould would sprinkle in and and
would help us when things gotbusy, uh.
So I had a had an old roommateof mine that was coming in and
helping with fulfillment, uh, qcof parts, you know, bagging,
bagging parts, you know whatever, bagging and tagging stuff.
Um, and really I think the thetransition really switched from
when I got out of that 1500square foot facility and ended
(07:04):
up purchasing the building I'min now Just a little over 14,000
square feet, so it's still asmall, small building in
comparison to some of the othershops, sure, but on that day I
delivered a third machine, so Iadded a machine, moved and did
all that and it was still thesole operator, machine operator.
(07:33):
So I was running three machines.
And then 2020 is when I saw atremendous amount of growth in
contrary to a lot of people.
But 2020 was really, really abig year for me and really had
to work on replicating myselfwithin the business.
So replicating myself on what Iwas doing on the machines.
You know, I just couldn't getall the setups done.
I just couldn't make good partsall the time when I was trying
(07:54):
to set up a machine.
So some of the spindles wouldbe off, not making parts because
they needed to be checked orwhatever making parts because
they needed to be checked orwhatever.
So I I found an operator, uh,and, lucky enough, happened to
be an ex student of mine, uh andwas able to talk to him and I
said you're a machinist like.
You're doing this as a trade.
He's like well, yeah, well, whydon't you come talk to me?
(08:16):
Maybe we could work together?
And so he ended up coming and Isaid well, I'm going to, I'm
going to treat you like I, likeI would myself, like I'm not
going to hide anything from you.
I'm going to show youeverything, I'm going to teach
you everything I've learned,like I don't know if I do it
right, but this is a way.
If you've got any ideas, let meknow.
I'm here to learn too.
Let's be a student of theprofession and and get after it.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And then I want to circle back to one thing that
you said that I think isimportant and my recent podcast
we did with Brandon Worrell.
He was talking through the lensof company.
He was going to buy what he waslooking for.
And you bring up another pointwhen you are so entwined with
your company that it can'toperate without you, your
(09:04):
company doesn't have a sellvalue because the only way it's
worth something to someone elseis if you come with the buy.
And then why would you buy thecompany if you're going to, or
why would you sell the companyif you're going to do the same
work and turn it over to someoneelse?
Some people might have a reasonfor that, but you make a very
important distinction that foryour company to have a worth in
(09:28):
terms of a sale value, you'vegot to disengage your role from
the company needing you to exist.
And so for pointing that out,because I think a lot of people
miss that point.
They think, hey, we're X amountof dollars profitable, but if
you're not paying yourself forthe role that you play in
(09:48):
addition to the profitability,then you're actually, the
company is still revolvingaround you and you've got to
figure out how to disengage forit to be of value.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
It was 100% and there was a certain level of tribal
knowledge that was locked up inmy brain and when you bring an
employee on, they're going totry and do right by by the
company and try and do right bywhat you've asked them to do.
But if all the information andeverything that they're asked to
do is locked up in the owner'sbrain, or in this key employee's
(10:18):
brain, how do you, how do youmove forward?
So there was a huge, a hugegrowth curve for me on on
becoming more organized, um,documenting things better.
Uh, what is a good part, whatis a bad part?
You know what does that looklike?
Um, and really trying tocommunicate to employees.
(10:40):
You know how to be successful.
So, as the machine shop hascontinued to grow, we've
continued to add machines, youknow.
You add on ERP systems.
You add on systems andstructures on how to track good
product, how to document whenproducts go wrong.
You know how to make thingscorrectly and just what that
(11:02):
looks like and to continue toreplicate yourself and, as you
say, almost disengage yourselffrom the day to day operations.
So you can, you can be more.
You know the 30 or 40 thousandfoot view and make sure that
everybody in this team andeverybody in this organization
has the tools they need to besuccessful organization has the
(11:23):
tools they need to be successful.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah and again, you, you work your network of
relationships to find that right.
Hire as well.
When you realized you had aformer student that was in the
industry and that was importantto to reach out to your who's to
find the right who right andjust asking questions.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
they're like, well, how's, how's work going?
And I said, oh man, I could usesome help.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
and then then people start recommending and then,
yeah, you just follow throughand ask some questions because
you didn't have any knowledge ofthe industry and you gave an
(12:05):
interesting dynamic of what itwas like to go from a teacher
who had community around youdown the hallway to being a guy
running his own shop.
Can you share some of thosethoughts with us?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Sure, yeah.
So as I've continued to growthe business, I find my role
changing.
You go from a designer, avisionary, to then being a
technical person on the machinesto now having employees, having
more business, dynamic issuesor just problems that have to be
(12:35):
solved, and I find myselfhaving a skill set that is not
necessarily good at that orneeds work.
And as a teacher, when you'refaced with a problem, you know
there's always a built inprofessional network.
So if you have a troublestudent, or you have a trouble
thing that you're trying tofigure out in the classroom, you
(12:57):
walk down the hallway and askthat veteran hey, what do you do
in a situation like this?
And there's bunches of peopleto ask and bounce ideas off of.
And in business I found thatthat was not as easy, and so I
started looking for anassociation that maybe had
like-minded business individualsthat were going through the
(13:20):
same thing I'm going through ortrying to learn about, or ones
that have already been there.
And guess what?
You go to an NTMA event, youstart talking to people and you
find out that your problemsreally aren't that big in the
grand scheme of things, and thena lot of people have been
through it or in it right nowand you can bounce ideas off of
each other and that's beenreally important for me on the
(13:44):
information I'm wanting to getat this stage in my life and
business and they give you hopethat you can survive this,
because sometimes, being a smallbusiness owner, you feel like,
is this a bigger problem than wecan get past?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And it's just nice to hear other people share.
Oh yeah, you can navigate thisand share their journey.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, if you're in an echo chamber, I mean that's
pretty bad.
But if you just ask the rightquestions or just be vulnerable
enough to ask some questions andlisten people, people steer you
in the right direction usually.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, and what's your company look like today?
How many employees do you have?
Machines, what?
What are you comfortablesharing about you do?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So including part-timers, we have 10
employees, so seven full-time,and happy to have them.
I mean, wouldn't be able to doit without them.
I'm in a situation where if Ineed to take a few days off, I
know that parts will still bemade, good parts will still be
made, parts will still beshipped, that sort of thing.
(14:48):
We're up to 14 machines, so 14machines in a relatively short
amount of time.
Swiss machining, so I have alot of Swiss style machines, but
also have some traditionalmills.
But in general when people askwhat I make I make, I say, well,
I make small parts roughly thesize of a Kleenex box and
(15:12):
smaller, and things is smallerthan your, your pinky fingernail
, if you want to get down toreally tiny stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So you had initially started this just to make your
own products but then realize,hey, we have capacity, we can
provide services to other people, and I think you said earlier,
automotive industry, foodservice industry, self-defense,
I mean.
So you actually found an avenuewhere, hey, there's other
(15:42):
demands and you were able todiversify your services a little
bit more to help createopportunity for your team.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Correct To help bridge those gaps.
You know every industry has aroller coaster.
The firearms industry is nodifferent.
It's kind of peak and valleyand really, really bubbly.
And to kind of flatten some ofthat out, especially once you
have other people that entrustthat you're steering the ship
(16:11):
correctly, you want to make surethat you have a stable
environment for them.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, love it.
I also noticed on your websiteyou've got a careers page that
people can go to and say, hey,here's where we start, here's
the type of roles that we hireinto and stuff like that, and I
just really love your candidnessof saying if you're looking for
something, this is where you'dstart and here's the opportunity
to work up.
Do you get many peopleresponding to those?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I do so.
It's pretty interesting when,whenever we do a campaign to get
some employees, I typicallyhave the opposite problem.
I have a lot of resumes I haveto go through and usually I shut
the open jobs down within aweek, a week to two weeks.
The last one I opened up for awarehouse personnel hire, I had
(17:07):
70 applicants in about three orfour days, so it's pretty can be
pretty intense trying to getthrough that.
What have you learned abouthiring?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
in that process.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
What's that.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
What have you learned about hiring in that process?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Oh, that I'm not good at it, and if you think you're
good at it, you're not processoh, that I'm not good at it.
And if you think you're good atit, you're not.
There's something to learnevery time, so I just I have to
get more reps at hiring, so I'mjust I'm just not perfect at it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Sure, one of the things that I do for teams there
are different tools that youcan use and I use something
called AcumuMax Index and ithelps to align people with their
natural wiring, with jobopportunities.
And does this profile of aperson fit the profile of the
role that you're trying to play?
And there's a differentpersonality for a long run CNC
operator versus short run CNCoperators and there's different
(18:06):
things like that.
That when you're really lookingto make that important hire, a
lot of times we're just doingcrapshoot, saying hope, this is
the right guy, I liked him, butwhat you don't understand at the
moment is are they going to beable to do that role long-term
or are they going to do it forweeks and realize they're
miserable and move on?
And there's a lot ofopportunities to be really
(18:26):
intentional about that and theinterview and the conversation
has to be more than about theirskill sets.
It needs to be how theyfunction and how they operate in
a community, how their mindsetis around work and stuff like
that, to really create someefficiency in that so that you
(18:47):
have you feel less of a risk inthe hire because you know that
there's alignment with whatyou're hiring them for.
So love the fact that you'recontinuing to grow.
And you're right, it takes reps, those first handful of hires,
especially if you do it onlyonce every four, five, six
months, man, it's hard to.
Especially if you do it onlyonce every four, five, six
months, man, it's hard to.
(19:10):
And we usually wait to hireuntil we're at a crisis point
and then we have to hire and wecan't take our time, and that's
that's the hard part about thatprocess, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It is I mean nailed it.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yep.
So, man, ian, your transparencyhas been great.
I love the authenticity of theconversation where you've just
said hey, here's the journeywe've been through and some
things I've learned, some thingsI'm still learning, and I just
really, really appreciate that.
What would you say to theperson who's thinking about
(19:43):
starting their own shop?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Starting their own shop.
Well, everybody's journey isdifferent.
Mine was based around a productand that's where I felt
comfortable.
So I think any journey needs tobe met with calculation, and
(20:07):
then if you over-calculate, youwon't ever do it.
So there's nothing wrong withinvesting in yourself, giving it
a chance and trying, and that'sexactly what I did.
So I took some risk, investedin myself and definitely look
back not regretting any of that.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's awesome, man.
What a great, greatencouragement.
Hey, one thing I love to do iswhat I call the speed feed round
, and so I'm going to throw somequestions at you.
You just answer your firstthoughts on it.
And for those that don't know,ian and I are both in the Kansas
City area and people may haveheard the Chiefs are going to
(20:50):
the Super Bowl.
I don't know if you're a Chiefsfan or not, or if you even care
, but if you were given twoSuper Bowl tickets, who would
you take to the Super Bowl withyou?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Two Super Bowl tickets.
I would take my wife andprobably my office manager, CEO,
which happens to be my wife'ssister.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Office manager, CEO, which happens to be my wife's
sister.
Okay, very fun, very fun.
You guys are going to have somefun in New Orleans, if that's
the case, right?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
We will.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Very good.
So those early morning shifts.
I know you guys don'tnecessarily start at 5 am, but
on those early mornings, whatare you going to have in your
hand for keeping yourself awake?
Is it going to be coffee,energy drinks, soda, what do you
?
What do you consume?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
So I am a lover of caffeine Coffee is a go-to, and
then, unfortunately, I happen toalso like those energy drinks.
So any of the caffeinatedenergy drinks that are that are
zero calorie or zero sugar, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
That's kind of my jam that are zero calorie or zero
sugar.
Yeah, that's kind of my jamGotcha, gotcha Very good.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
And, in your opinion, what's the greatest threat to
manufacturing right now?
Oh, I think the greatest threatto manufacturing is that young
people don't know the tradeexists, and once they start to
figure it out and the speed inwhich this industry is changing,
I'm fearful that the youngpeople coming up will think that
(22:20):
it's too daunting of a task tolearn it, and I think that is,
yeah, just very detrimental.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, really appreciate that.
What is one tool in yourleadership tool belt you
couldn't live without?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Kathy.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Kathy, my friend, yeah, yeah, I love it.
And she's your what?
She's my sister-in-law, she'syour office manager or CEO, did
you say?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, basically she runs the place essentially, so
if I'm gone, she's, she's oureasy button with with pretty
much anything operations.
But, uh, to be to answer thequestion a little more seriously
the probably the one thing Ithink I'm really good at, uh, is
a no flinch rule, so I don'tflinch when I'm given the
information.
So, um, I hate, I hate thatpeople try to deliver me
(23:16):
information to or curate the waythey deliver me information
based on how they think I wouldreact to it.
Um, I'm more of a give me theinformation.
Let me handle my emotions andI'll keep those in check.
I need to know the truth andgive me the information raw and
straight to the point.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's great, hey, and I have to say this you kind
of said the first one was joking, but I'm going to actually lean
into that because and I think Imay have mentioned this a few
episodes ago there's a bookcalled who, not how, by Dr
Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan,and the whole principle of that
book is you've got to quitthinking about how to get
(23:56):
something done and find the who,who can get it done for you,
and that's how you multiply yourbusiness.
And similar principles can befound in 10x and some of those
other writings and stuff.
But your first answer made alot of sense too.
So, uh, hey, uh.
Last thing, uh, we've learned alittle bit about your business
(24:16):
and stuff.
Is there anything that's just apassion point of yours that if
we were able to start the wholeepisode over, you'd be like man,
I wish we could talk about thisbecause we're so passionate
about it.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Gosh, you know?
No, not really.
But one thing I will say thatis something that I try to work
on is I try not to take stresshome, and the way I'm able to do
(24:48):
that is my kids are still young, so when I show up at home they
still greet me at the pickupdoor.
They think I'm a superhero andI shed all that stress and try
to make sure that I'm still asuperhero for them and I don't
ever want to bring that workstress home.
(25:09):
I don't want them to knowwhether or not I had a good day
or a bad day, you know type ofdeal.
I'm always just dad.
They're superhero and that's apoint of pride.
I guess that I just try to keepthat normal for them.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
So burdens of business aren't brought home.
That's awesome, dude.
This has been such a greatinterview.
Thank you so much for makingyourself available for it.
I think you've encouraged a lotof people in this, and keep
doing what you're doing and keepgrowing.
A great company, my friend.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Thank you.
Thanks for the time.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's been a pleasure Take care.
Ian, we are back at it.
We had some great conversationsin part one about your story
through teaching and startinginto offering a product that
turned into a production company.
But let's talk about thatjourney of when you bought your
first machine and how it tookoff, and we'll get a picture of
(00:24):
what your company looks like now.
So continue your story of yourjourney of when you bought that
first machine.
Is this machine sitting in yourgarage at this point, or what
does it look like for you?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So the first machine was not sitting in my garage.
I actually had a small, wellcommercial location that I was
renting from another businessowner in town.
It was about 1,500 square feet,so 1,500 square feet,
essentially a large garage, buthad industrial power and that
(00:57):
sort of thing, and that waswhere a lot of the fulfillment
stuff was going on for the otheremployees prior to getting the
CNC machine, and so that waskind of a pivotal point as well
about you know, hey, can I putan industrial machine in here?
And the landlord was likeabsolutely you can, let's do it,
(01:18):
let's go for it.
You know it took time toresearch builders to find the
correct machine, to ultimatelyget paired up with the correct
company that was able to take anovice under their wing and have
the resources available to meand a place where I could ask
(01:40):
silly questions and feel likethat I couldn't get somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So was your manufacturer one of your leading
education points, or was thereanother resource that you could
go to for education?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So it was.
It was not the manufacturer,the original manufacturer.
They were making those on theparts that I was buying on a
completely different machinethat I ended up buying due to
the.
I needed a one size fits allmachine and so it led me to a
little bit larger form factormachine.
And for your listeners thatwould want to know what I got, I
(02:17):
mean I got a twin spindle, twinturret, y axis laid with bar
feeder, high pressure, coolpressure coolant, I mean the
whole shebang uh, as a firstmachine.
So you know, an eight axismachine is what I cut my teeth
on.
And that was really interestingconversations with with other
(02:37):
other machines, tool builders.
Uh, when they were asking youknow what's your experience in
cnc?
And I said, well, I don't haveany and they go, well, we're not
going to sell you a machine.
So the company that ended upworking with me and really just
treating me really, really wellfor a new person was Machine
Tool Specialties out of Oklahomaand, matter of fact, they're
(03:02):
members of the NTMA as well.
So I see them frequently atevents and those guys class act
people.
Nothing bad to say about theirbusiness.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That's amazing.
So this was in 2017?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
2017.
Yeah, the first machine in 2017.
And then, with their help, withtheir guidance, they were able
to take the machine into theirfloor, help spec out some tools
and prove out some programs.
Then they brought me down toTulsa, showed me how to run the
machine on a program that theyhad written for me and
(03:38):
essentially turnkey for thebread and butter part.
Uh, that was that was needed,uh, for it to run.
And then we're just networkingand asking a lot of questions,
and tooling reps coming throughthe shop started to meet and and
learn from other individuals inthe manufacturing area, just
(04:00):
locally and for whatever reason.
They treated me really well andwe were blessed with the
information they were able toshare.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So from the time that you plug in your machine in
your 1500 square foot shop time,that you are fully providing
all of your products in house.
How big of a gap was thattransition?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Actual time or how long did it feel it felt like a
hundred years Actual time mayhave, I mean I, I mean it was
making decent parts within thefirst three, four weeks of being
on the floor, but it was aturnkey.
You know part Um, but I wasstill still learning how to run
(04:48):
the tools, still learning how toget to a life.
You know just all the stuff youcontinually learn in a shop, um
, and paying a lot of stupid tax.
Um, I didn't know what I didn'tknow and really just trying to
learn and fail forward.
And there was a lot of failure.
Luckily there was nothing thatwas detrimental to the machine.
(05:10):
I didn't really damage it much.
I mean I've crashed it, but itwasn't anything that was, you
know, machine ending or lifeending for that machine.
So that's, that's been good.
And then just continued todesign parts and prototype and
work, and work, and work at it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So at this point you've got two fulfillment
people you're running themachine.
Was your wife helping with thecompany at all, or was she
responsible for her stuff andand you were running this on
your own?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, no, she wasn't.
She wasn't um much in theday-to-day operations of
business, so she would stillwork her full-time job and then
and then we wouldn't blend muchof that, I think, for our sanity
.
Um, so yeah, that's how thingswere.
She wasn't in the business on aday-to-day basis.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So when was your next hire and what was the role you
hired?
Because right now you're theoperator flawed as you might be
operating at this point, butwhat did it look like to grow at
this point to add additionalteam members?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, so really what I ended up doing was, before
adding additional team members,I ended up adding some more
equipment.
So then I added a secondmachine in that small
1,500-square-foot facility andwas able to still crank more
volume out of there.
And I had some part-time peoplethat would sprinkle in and
(06:42):
would help us when things gotbusy out of there and, you know,
had some part-time people thatwould would sprinkle in and and
would help us when things gotbusy, uh.
So I had a had an old roommateof mine that was coming in and
helping with fulfillment, uh, qcof parts, you know, bagging,
bagging parts, you know whatever, bagging and tagging stuff.
Um, and really I think the thetransition really switched from
when I got out of that 1500square foot facility and ended
(07:04):
up purchasing the building I'min now Just a little over 14,000
square feet, so it's still asmall, small building in
comparison to some of the othershops, sure, but on that day I
delivered a third machine, so Iadded a machine, moved and did
all that and it was still thesole operator, machine operator.
(07:33):
So I was running three machines.
And then 2020 is when I saw atremendous amount of growth in
contrary to a lot of people.
But 2020 was really, really abig year for me and really had
to work on replicating myselfwithin the business.
So replicating myself on what Iwas doing on the machines.
You know, I just couldn't getall the setups done.
I just couldn't make good partsall the time when I was trying
(07:54):
to set up a machine.
So some of the spindles wouldbe off, not making parts because
they needed to be checked orwhatever making parts because
they needed to be checked orwhatever.
So I I found an operator, uh,and, lucky enough, happened to
be an ex student of mine, uh andwas able to talk to him and I
said you're a machinist like.
You're doing this as a trade.
He's like well, yeah, well, whydon't you come talk to me?
(08:16):
Maybe we could work together?
And so he ended up coming and Isaid well, I'm going to, I'm
going to treat you like I, likeI would myself, like I'm not
going to hide anything from you.
I'm going to show youeverything, I'm going to teach
you everything I've learned,like I don't know if I do it
right, but this is a way.
If you've got any ideas, let meknow.
I'm here to learn too.
Let's be a student of theprofession and and get after it.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And then I want to circle back to one thing that
you said that I think isimportant and my recent podcast
we did with Brandon Worrell.
He was talking through the lensof company.
He was going to buy what he waslooking for.
And you bring up another pointwhen you are so entwined with
your company that it can'toperate without you, your
(09:04):
company doesn't have a sellvalue because the only way it's
worth something to someone elseis if you come with the buy.
And then why would you buy thecompany if you're going to, or
why would you sell the companyif you're going to do the same
work and turn it over to someoneelse?
Some people might have a reasonfor that, but you make a very
important distinction that foryour company to have a worth in
(09:28):
terms of a sale value, you'vegot to disengage your role from
the company needing you to exist.
And so for pointing that out,because I think a lot of people
miss that point.
They think, hey, we're X amountof dollars profitable, but if
you're not paying yourself forthe role that you play in
(09:48):
addition to the profitability,then you're actually, the
company is still revolvingaround you and you've got to
figure out how to disengage forit to be of value.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
It was 100% and there was a certain level of tribal
knowledge that was locked up inmy brain and when you bring an
employee on, they're going totry and do right by by the
company and try and do right bywhat you've asked them to do.
But if all the information andeverything that they're asked to
do is locked up in the owner'sbrain, or in this key employee's
(10:18):
brain, how do you, how do youmove forward?
So there was a huge, a hugegrowth curve for me on on
becoming more organized, um,documenting things better.
Uh, what is a good part, whatis a bad part?
You know what does that looklike?
Um, and really trying tocommunicate to employees.
(10:40):
You know how to be successful.
So, as the machine shop hascontinued to grow, we've
continued to add machines, youknow.
You add on ERP systems.
You add on systems andstructures on how to track good
product, how to document whenproducts go wrong.
You know how to make thingscorrectly and just what that
(11:02):
looks like and to continue toreplicate yourself and, as you
say, almost disengage yourselffrom the day to day operations.
So you can, you can be more.
You know the 30 or 40 thousandfoot view and make sure that
everybody in this team andeverybody in this organization
has the tools they need to besuccessful organization has the
(11:23):
tools they need to be successful.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah and again, you, you work your network of
relationships to find that right.
Hire as well.
When you realized you had aformer student that was in the
industry and that was importantto to reach out to your who's to
find the right who right andjust asking questions.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
they're like, well, how's, how's work going?
And I said, oh man, I could usesome help.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
and then then people start recommending and then,
yeah, you just follow throughand ask some questions because
you didn't have any knowledge ofthe industry and you gave an
(12:05):
interesting dynamic of what itwas like to go from a teacher
who had community around youdown the hallway to being a guy
running his own shop.
Can you share some of thosethoughts with us?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Sure, yeah.
So as I've continued to growthe business, I find my role
changing.
You go from a designer, avisionary, to then being a
technical person on the machinesto now having employees, having
more business, dynamic issuesor just problems that have to be
(12:35):
solved, and I find myselfhaving a skill set that is not
necessarily good at that orneeds work.
And as a teacher, when you'refaced with a problem, you know
there's always a built inprofessional network.
So if you have a troublestudent, or you have a trouble
thing that you're trying tofigure out in the classroom, you
(12:57):
walk down the hallway and askthat veteran hey, what do you do
in a situation like this?
And there's bunches of peopleto ask and bounce ideas off of.
And in business I found thatthat was not as easy, and so I
started looking for anassociation that maybe had
like-minded business individualsthat were going through the
(13:20):
same thing I'm going through ortrying to learn about, or ones
that have already been there.
And guess what?
You go to an NTMA event, youstart talking to people and you
find out that your problemsreally aren't that big in the
grand scheme of things, and thena lot of people have been
through it or in it right nowand you can bounce ideas off of
each other and that's beenreally important for me on the
(13:44):
information I'm wanting to getat this stage in my life and
business and they give you hopethat you can survive this,
because sometimes, being a smallbusiness owner, you feel like,
is this a bigger problem than wecan get past?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And it's just nice to hear other people share.
Oh yeah, you can navigate thisand share their journey.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, if you're in an echo chamber, I mean that's
pretty bad.
But if you just ask the rightquestions or just be vulnerable
enough to ask some questions andlisten people, people steer you
in the right direction usually.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, and what's your company look like today?
How many employees do you have?
Machines, what?
What are you comfortablesharing about you do?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So including part-timers, we have 10
employees, so seven full-time,and happy to have them.
I mean, wouldn't be able to doit without them.
I'm in a situation where if Ineed to take a few days off, I
know that parts will still bemade, good parts will still be
made, parts will still beshipped, that sort of thing.
(14:48):
We're up to 14 machines, so 14machines in a relatively short
amount of time.
Swiss machining, so I have alot of Swiss style machines, but
also have some traditionalmills.
But in general when people askwhat I make I make, I say, well,
I make small parts roughly thesize of a Kleenex box and
(15:12):
smaller, and things is smallerthan your, your pinky fingernail
, if you want to get down toreally tiny stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So you had initially started this just to make your
own products but then realize,hey, we have capacity, we can
provide services to other people, and I think you said earlier,
automotive industry, foodservice industry, self-defense,
I mean.
So you actually found an avenuewhere, hey, there's other
(15:42):
demands and you were able todiversify your services a little
bit more to help createopportunity for your team.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Correct To help bridge those gaps.
You know every industry has aroller coaster.
The firearms industry is nodifferent.
It's kind of peak and valleyand really, really bubbly.
And to kind of flatten some ofthat out, especially once you
have other people that entrustthat you're steering the ship
(16:11):
correctly, you want to make surethat you have a stable
environment for them.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, love it.
I also noticed on your websiteyou've got a careers page that
people can go to and say, hey,here's where we start, here's
the type of roles that we hireinto and stuff like that, and I
just really love your candidnessof saying if you're looking for
something, this is where you'dstart and here's the opportunity
to work up.
Do you get many peopleresponding to those?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I do so.
It's pretty interesting when,whenever we do a campaign to get
some employees, I typicallyhave the opposite problem.
I have a lot of resumes I haveto go through and usually I shut
the open jobs down within aweek, a week to two weeks.
The last one I opened up for awarehouse personnel hire, I had
(17:07):
70 applicants in about three orfour days, so it's pretty can be
pretty intense trying to getthrough that.
What have you learned abouthiring?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
in that process.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
What's that.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
What have you learned about hiring in that process?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Oh, that I'm not good at it, and if you think you're
good at it, you're not processoh, that I'm not good at it.
And if you think you're good atit, you're not.
There's something to learnevery time, so I just I have to
get more reps at hiring, so I'mjust I'm just not perfect at it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Sure, one of the things that I do for teams there
are different tools that youcan use and I use something
called AcumuMax Index and ithelps to align people with their
natural wiring, with jobopportunities.
And does this profile of aperson fit the profile of the
role that you're trying to play?
And there's a differentpersonality for a long run CNC
operator versus short run CNCoperators and there's different
(18:06):
things like that.
That when you're really lookingto make that important hire, a
lot of times we're just doingcrapshoot, saying hope, this is
the right guy, I liked him, butwhat you don't understand at the
moment is are they going to beable to do that role long-term
or are they going to do it forweeks and realize they're
miserable and move on?
And there's a lot ofopportunities to be really
(18:26):
intentional about that and theinterview and the conversation
has to be more than about theirskill sets.
It needs to be how theyfunction and how they operate in
a community, how their mindsetis around work and stuff like
that, to really create someefficiency in that so that you
(18:47):
have you feel less of a risk inthe hire because you know that
there's alignment with whatyou're hiring them for.
So love the fact that you'recontinuing to grow.
And you're right, it takes reps, those first handful of hires,
especially if you do it onlyonce every four, five, six
months, man, it's hard to.
Especially if you do it onlyonce every four, five, six
months, man, it's hard to.
(19:10):
And we usually wait to hireuntil we're at a crisis point
and then we have to hire and wecan't take our time, and that's
that's the hard part about thatprocess, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It is I mean nailed it.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yep.
So, man, ian, your transparencyhas been great.
I love the authenticity of theconversation where you've just
said hey, here's the journeywe've been through and some
things I've learned, some thingsI'm still learning, and I just
really, really appreciate that.
What would you say to theperson who's thinking about
(19:43):
starting their own shop?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Starting their own shop.
Well, everybody's journey isdifferent.
Mine was based around a productand that's where I felt
comfortable.
So I think any journey needs tobe met with calculation, and
(20:07):
then if you over-calculate, youwon't ever do it.
So there's nothing wrong withinvesting in yourself, giving it
a chance and trying, and that'sexactly what I did.
So I took some risk, investedin myself and definitely look
back not regretting any of that.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's awesome, man.
What a great, greatencouragement.
Hey, one thing I love to do iswhat I call the speed feed round
, and so I'm going to throw somequestions at you.
You just answer your firstthoughts on it.
And for those that don't know,ian and I are both in the Kansas
City area and people may haveheard the Chiefs are going to
(20:50):
the Super Bowl.
I don't know if you're a Chiefsfan or not, or if you even care
, but if you were given twoSuper Bowl tickets, who would
you take to the Super Bowl withyou?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Two Super Bowl tickets.
I would take my wife andprobably my office manager, CEO,
which happens to be my wife'ssister.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Office manager, CEO, which happens to be my wife's
sister.
Okay, very fun, very fun.
You guys are going to have somefun in New Orleans, if that's
the case, right?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
We will.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Very good.
So those early morning shifts.
I know you guys don'tnecessarily start at 5 am, but
on those early mornings, whatare you going to have in your
hand for keeping yourself awake?
Is it going to be coffee,energy drinks, soda, what do you
?
What do you consume?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
So I am a lover of caffeine Coffee is a go-to, and
then, unfortunately, I happen toalso like those energy drinks.
So any of the caffeinatedenergy drinks that are that are
zero calorie or zero sugar, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
That's kind of my jam that are zero calorie or zero
sugar.
Yeah, that's kind of my jamGotcha, gotcha Very good.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
And, in your opinion, what's the greatest threat to
manufacturing right now?
Oh, I think the greatest threatto manufacturing is that young
people don't know the tradeexists, and once they start to
figure it out and the speed inwhich this industry is changing,
I'm fearful that the youngpeople coming up will think that
(22:20):
it's too daunting of a task tolearn it, and I think that is,
yeah, just very detrimental.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, really appreciate that.
What is one tool in yourleadership tool belt you
couldn't live without?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Kathy.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Kathy, my friend, yeah, yeah, I love it.
And she's your what?
She's my sister-in-law, she'syour office manager or CEO, did
you say?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, basically she runs the place essentially, so
if I'm gone, she's, she's oureasy button with with pretty
much anything operations.
But, uh, to be to answer thequestion a little more seriously
the probably the one thing Ithink I'm really good at, uh, is
a no flinch rule, so I don'tflinch when I'm given the
information.
So, um, I hate, I hate thatpeople try to deliver me
(23:16):
information to or curate the waythey deliver me information
based on how they think I wouldreact to it.
Um, I'm more of a give me theinformation.
Let me handle my emotions andI'll keep those in check.
I need to know the truth andgive me the information raw and
straight to the point.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's great, hey, and I have to say this you kind
of said the first one was joking, but I'm going to actually lean
into that because and I think Imay have mentioned this a few
episodes ago there's a bookcalled who, not how, by Dr
Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan,and the whole principle of that
book is you've got to quitthinking about how to get
(23:56):
something done and find the who,who can get it done for you,
and that's how you multiply yourbusiness.
And similar principles can befound in 10x and some of those
other writings and stuff.
But your first answer made alot of sense too.
So, uh, hey, uh.
Last thing, uh, we've learned alittle bit about your business
(24:16):
and stuff.
Is there anything that's just apassion point of yours that if
we were able to start the wholeepisode over, you'd be like man,
I wish we could talk about thisbecause we're so passionate
about it.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Gosh, you know?
No, not really.
But one thing I will say thatis something that I try to work
on is I try not to take stresshome, and the way I'm able to do
(24:48):
that is my kids are still young, so when I show up at home they
still greet me at the pickupdoor.
They think I'm a superhero andI shed all that stress and try
to make sure that I'm still asuperhero for them and I don't
ever want to bring that workstress home.
(25:09):
I don't want them to knowwhether or not I had a good day
or a bad day, you know type ofdeal.
I'm always just dad.
They're superhero and that's apoint of pride.
I guess that I just try to keepthat normal for them.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
So burdens of business aren't brought home.
That's awesome, dude.
This has been such a greatinterview.
Thank you so much for makingyourself available for it.
I think you've encouraged a lotof people in this, and keep
doing what you're doing and keepgrowing.
A great company, my friend.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Thank you.
Thanks for the time.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's been a pleasure Take care.
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