January 6, 2025 • 23 mins
The episode explores the vital relationship between sales and production within the manufacturing industry through the insights of Brandon Herring from Zephyr Products. Key discussions include the importance of collaboration, knowing when to say no, and cultivating a culture of communication and continuous improvement.
• The intersection of sales and production in manufacturing
• Importance of knowing production capacities when advocating for customers
• Strategic decision-making on which projects to pursue
• Discussion of the first article process for quality assurance
• Emphasis on documenting knowledge transfer within teams
• Need for clear communication and regular meetings
• The role of team morale and celebrating successes in fostering culture
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right manufacturing leaders, it is
time for episode four of thePeople in Production podcast.
I am really enjoying this.
I'm really loving the feedbackthat we're getting Today.
Our guest is Brandon Herringfrom Zephyr Products
Incorporated.
Brandon is a friend.
I've gotten to know him overthe past year and have really
(00:21):
come to appreciate him.
How he shows up and the energythat he brings to whatever room
that he's in Love it.
In this episode you're going tohear from Brandon as he talks
about the relationship betweensales and production.
He's going to talk aboutculture through the shop into
sales and how that culture fromthe shop flows into how he
communicates to other people.
He's going to talk about whento say no.
(00:43):
I find that to be aninteresting piece.
And then he shares a littleinsight as to how Zephyr tackles
their first article process.
Good stuff there.
And then he shares a number ofother things, like moving
forward after failing with yourgroup, how do you not cast blame
, how do you avoid gettingrooted in the frustration of
(01:05):
past projects.
So a lot of other things thatBrandon's going to share.
This is one of two episodes fromBrandon and part two will be
coming in our next release.
But check this out with Brandonand if you would be sure to
subscribe to this podcast, inwhatever avenue you're watching
it, whether it's on YouTube orSpotify or Apple Podcasts or
(01:29):
Apple Play, whatever environmentyou're checking it out, please
subscribe, keep up to date withwhat we're going.
And then I'd also love for youto offer some encouragement and
some gratitude to Brandon forsharing his insights.
So check out part one of myinterview with Brandon Herring.
All right, hey, everyone,welcome to the show.
(02:02):
I am really excited for havingBrandon Herring with me.
He is from Zephyr Products andBrandon.
Welcome to the show, man, howare you?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Thanks for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, man, I am looking forward to this full
disclosure.
I want to let people know thatZephyr is a client that I work
with and I actually helped torun a program that you helped
create at Zephyr, if Iunderstand right.
So you had a vision for, hey,how do we onboard these guys
that are coming into our company, and you started creating some
things around that.
We're going to dive into that alittle bit, but before we go
(02:36):
there, tell me what is Zephyrproducts and what type of
services do you guys provide?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So we are a metal contract manufacturer, so job
shop uh, we don't.
We don't have our own product.
We make parts for other peopleand a litany of different uh
markets.
Well, whether it's construction, uh to transportation, aviation
uh, aviation transportation,rail car, uh, we work in a lot
(03:02):
of different markets where wemake parts for these customers
and then they assemble theirparts and then ship them to
wherever they need to go.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And you do laser, you do cutting, you do welding, you
do fabricating, you domachining, you kind of work.
A wide swath of services, don'tyou?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Correct.
So we primarily process carbonsteel, stainless steel and
aluminum.
Whether that starts out as asheet of metal or some sort of
structural material, whetherit's round tube, square tube,
round bar, square bar angle, weprocess that material.
So we'll cut it on a laser or atube laser.
We will form that part.
(03:41):
If it needs to be bent, Then wetake it.
If it needs some machining,when you have some machining
capabilities, uh, then also we.
We have a lot, many differenttypes of welding that we do here
.
And then, finally, we do powdercoating.
So if we want to do a certaintype of powder coat paint, we do
that as well that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So what's your ideal client?
Who who's a good connection forsuffer products?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
well.
So we obviously, like manypeople in our field, prefer a
repeatable work.
Though we are a job shop, thereis a learning curve, you know.
So if it's something that'sgoing to be repeatable, so that
we can get our first articlesout of the way, so that we can
perfect the part, so that we cancontinually make it repeated
with quality and do and be ableto find efficiencies from
(04:27):
building that part repeatedly,so that we can make timelines
for those customers to havebuild.
They have, you know, buildschedules that we can meet, but
those customers can range fromany, really, like I said, a
litany of different markets thatwe cater to awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So tell me about your role with Zephyr.
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I'm currently in an outside sales role, so really I
maintain relationships, developnew relationships.
That's what I love about my job, because I can talk all day
long.
But no, there's a lot of thingsto Zephyr that are for us, that
the audience may or may not know, that we do more than just
(05:08):
making parts here.
So my job is to maintain theexisting relationships that we
have developed, a mind sharewithin those relationships, so
that we can, you know, do morework.
We try to.
We focus on creatingpartnerships with our customers.
We don't have.
We're not constantly going outand trying to find new customers
.
We're strengthening,strengthening the relationships
(05:29):
we have with our existingcustomers so that we can expand
that mind share within thosecustomers that's great.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
How long have you been with the company?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
uh almost eight years okay.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So what's kind of interesting to me?
And, um, as I shared, I'veworked with Zephyr.
I know a lot, I like to talk alot about culture and that's a
fascinating conversation.
And you're not necessarily aguy that goes out and you're on
the floor working the shop,working with the materials
themselves and the guysoperating that.
(05:59):
Yet in sales, culture is stilla dynamic for you.
Yet in sales, culture is stilla dynamic for you how you
interact with other companies,how you interact with your team
if something needs to be done acertain way or if there's a
change order or something likethat.
Tell me a little bit about howyou experience the Zephyr
culture and how you, as asalesperson, become an extension
(06:22):
of whatever culture Zephyr saysit has.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think so.
Um, well, I I basicallyadvocate for our customer right
to our, to our shop and and andin most companies, you know, you
have this um, a little bit ofopposition between production
and sales, right?
Uh, production that doesn'tlike change.
Uh, there's always a finitenumber of resources that you can
do, and sales is always tryingto push that bar right, we're
(06:48):
trying, we could do more, we cando more, we can do more, but in
the same case, we're alsorepresenting the customers
expectations within theorganization.
So you know I know what my by mycustomer expects based our
customer state expects, based onmy interactions with them, I've
seen the parts that they're endresult.
So I understand the level thatwe need to be, and so a lot of
(07:08):
times that'll be my job is toarticulate that to our
production team.
So not only just expectationsfor timeframe delivery and those
types of things, but also thelevel of detail that needs to be
coordinated or based on thevolume.
You know how do we need toapproach this project, and so I
do work with our project team ina lot of facets, especially
(07:30):
when we're onboarding newcustomers or a new product line
for a customer.
That's like new parts for us,where I work with not only our
strategic product folks but alsoour first article folks to make
sure that those expectationsare delivered.
Hopefully I answered yourquestion, yes.
So what's interesting to me isthere are two value points that
those expectations are delivered.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Hopefully I answered your question, yes.
So what's interesting to me isthere are two value points that
you need to connect.
You need to understand whoZephyr is, but you also need to
understand who your client is.
How do you get an understandingof, hey, this person that I'm
talking to?
What do I pick up about, whothey are, what their
(08:04):
organization is, and how doesthat affect how you interact
with your own company in thatregard?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
That's a great question.
So I think a lot of times youknow you can have any type of
salesperson, I guess.
But in this and what I'velearned in this line of work is
you have to have an intimate,like what I would say, at least
a high level intimateunderstanding of your
capabilities.
So I started at Zephyr inestimating, which requires you
(08:31):
to know, you have to know, alittle bit about every work
center so that you can properlyestimate it, so that you can put
a price to it Right.
So how much time and what theoperation, how that, how that
works in our work, so that youcan understand whether we can
whether it's in our wheelhouseor not, right?
So that's the first part of theconversation with the customer
that says hey, I have thisproblem, Can you help me solve
(08:53):
it?
Well, they show me a part.
I'm looking at it.
Well, do we have thecapabilities to make this part?
Is it a good fit for us?
Because it's maybe a little bitoutside of our comfort zone but
it's still in the realm of ourpossibility, right?
So it's knowing that, thatcapability, so that I can say
you know, mr Customer, mrsCustomer, yes, we could probably
help you with this part.
Or whoa, you know, that'ssomething that we don't
(09:14):
typically do.
There's so many differentvariations of metal fabrication
that really having anunderstanding of what those
capabilities are that you can door what your partners can do,
so I think you know, I knowwe'll probably get into this,
but like that's the value ofbeing in like a group, like NTMA
, is that having thisunderstanding of all these
potential partners that we havein this group that have this
extension if for lack of abetter term of your capabilities
(09:37):
, right?
So, and so that that bridgingthat gap for what's good work
for us and what's probably not agood fit for us is the first
part of the conversation whentalking to customers.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's great.
So what?
What's the parameters?
That would be a no for you.
Is it volume of work?
Is it type of material?
Help me understand a little bit.
Or, and when is it anopportunity for you to say you
go to your shop manager and justsay, hey, we've got this
opportunity.
Are we willing to expand tothis?
How do you know what to say noto and what to say yes to?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
well, so kind of a combination of all the above
right?
So, first of all, if it's somesort of material, uh, that is
outside of carbon steel,stainless steel or some
variation of aluminum, um, I'mgoing to be, that's going to
throw my first flag right, likeif it's some kind of, uh,
vibranium or something that wedon't, that you know is very
(10:33):
scarce and an unknown demand orsomething, or I don't even know,
the first place, based on whatmy suppliers and the awareness I
have of their product line, iseven something I can get.
The other thing is, is thatwhat type of operations would go
into making this part?
Ok, so we've identified thatthe material is something that
we are familiar with and we dohave access to.
What operations need to go intomaking this part, and so having
(10:56):
that understanding of thecapabilities that our shop has
or our partners have, it goesinto whether or not that part is
a good fit for us.
The other thing is is the volumeright?
Right?
So if it's a really complicatedpart and we might make it a
couple of times a year, you know, is the learning curve, you
know as far as the opportunityis going to cost me more to
(11:18):
learn how to make this part, oris it going to?
Or is it something that youknow it's just better left to a
shop that specializes in makingone offs?
You know that might be outsideof what we do, based on on who
we are as a company.
We do a lot of on-the-jobtraining here, so where some
companies you might pay a lotmore but you're also paying for
a skill level that's alreadythere, where we have lots of
(11:39):
high-level skills here but we'realso doing a lot of odd-to-job
training.
So having that understandingand where that balance is plays
a lot into those conversations.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You know, that's an interesting thing.
I was actually on the shopfloor at your place earlier this
week in fact, and I was talkingwith one of your guys who had
been doing a great big, massiveproject heavy, heavy material,
large project that they wereworking on and I just said it'll
be interesting.
Did you say you've got anotherone of these coming out?
And they said yeah.
(12:08):
And I said after having donethe first one, how long do you
think it'll take to do thesecond one?
And he said, oh, we're going tocut the time by a dramatic
amount because we've done itbefore.
And just in that conversationwith him I said so how are you
documenting this so that thetribal knowledge isn't just in
the team that did this one?
But if some of you move out theother day, how do we get some
(12:30):
other people that can pick upwhere you left off?
And what was interesting hejust said to me.
He said to me right at thatmoment that's awesome.
You said that because one of theguys was working on a project
I've done many times before insecond shift and he hadn't
worked on this project muchbefore.
So I went over and talked himthrough it and I just started
writing everything down I couldthink of to help him to be able
(12:54):
to do the job as well as I coulddo the job.
And the next morning he came inand he said the job was just
about perfect.
And I guess I'm just going intothat story to say when you talk
about doing something, ifyou're only doing it once or
twice a year, there's a lot oflearning curve for some of these
projects that are complicatedand you write it down, you
(13:15):
document it.
That affects your culture andthe confidence taking something
in.
But a company really has tounderstand that that first one
is going to take a lot longerthan the ones that follow.
How much does that play afactor when you're contemplating
a project like that?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
it's a great question .
We uh.
So we have our first, what wecall first article process,
which most, a lot of companies,most companies, if they aren't
doing should be doing uh, wherewe we do a couple of different
things.
First is is it something that'sthe first time that we'll be
doing a lot of uh?
That will have a learning curve.
The second is is risk right?
So this company though this is,it seems very simple on the
(13:52):
surface.
They're asking for 10,000pieces.
Should we really run a firstbatch just to make sure
everything's good before we runall these parts and we put
ourselves at risk that, ifthey're wrong, we're, you know,
out all this material and losttime, right?
So so we have a first articleprocess that not only does just
(14:22):
that like, it's basically aquality assurance through each
each work center, but alsodevelops process like processes
within specific to that part, tohelp us to gain efficiencies of
however much risk and howevermuch money we might do.
A first article run that's likemore than one piece, so it's
like five pieces or something sothat we can learn how, not only
how to make the part correctly,but also we learn efficiencies
in making those five parts, andobviously by the fifth part is
(14:43):
probably the best version of thepart.
But we also have developed howwe're gonna do this part,
whether it's from fixturing forweldments to understanding the
you know, the size of materialthat we want to bring in, how
we're ordering that material andthen for the runs that we know
we're going to do in production.
So we, so we, and that'sconstantly.
That's not necessarily adestination but a way of
(15:06):
business, right?
So our first article process isa living process.
It's constantly evolving, butwe do take that process very
seriously and actually have someresources dedicated to that,
and so I work with that team fora pretty pretty lockstep,
because a lot of stuff that I'mdoing is either new or it's a
(15:26):
new customer or it's a newcustomer, right.
So we want to make sure thatwe're giving a great first
impression, and then thatcontinuity strategy to make sure
that we're delivering qualityproducts on time.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So who's at the table for that conversation?
Is it engineering, is it fab,is it weld?
Who do you bring to that tableso that it's a real conversation
and not just a?
Well, we could do it this way.
We'll have to talk to thatdepartment.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So we have first article meetings at least once,
if not more than once, a week,to go over all the, all the
parts that we deem firstarticles.
And those are all the leaders,so the managers of each
department, and then any linelevel supervisors that would be
directly involved.
Usually that's like the well,supervisors that would be
directly involved so that we cando so.
So do we determine like thingslike well, ok, what type of
(16:15):
fixture do we need for this?
You know what, and how are wegoing to approach this?
And even all the way down tosome, in some cases, the
packaging.
Ok, this thing's painted now andwe got a bunch of them and it's
really big.
How are we going to get this tothe customer?
You know so, though, we mighthave estimated all these things
into the end of the offering tothe customer as far as a dollar
sign, but we have to really haveto drill down into the actual
(16:39):
execution of it.
So usually it's our leaders, soour department leadership, our
first article direct projectmanager, and usually, like
myself, our strategic productgroup, like myself, our
strategic product group which isusually the quoting team that
was involved in theconversations to deliver the
expectation to our team from thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Man, communication is so complex there and what I
think is interesting and everyorganization deals with this
something may not have gone wellfrom the handoff from this
group to this group and thenlater that day you're sitting in
a meeting with those samepeople, having to come up with
solutions for the next projectand stuff, and just having that
(17:22):
ability to be frank with eachother, to speak candidly with
each other, and I just thinkthat says something about the
importance of your culture.
How do we move forward withoutliving in the past, saying oh,
you jacked that up in the past.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Oh yeah, or like how did this happen?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
What have you seen in your days in this role?
What have you seen about theimportance of building trust and
what are some keys that you'veseen about how that trust has
been built?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So that's a great question too.
So some things in my mind.
What I've, what I've learned inmy experiences, is that you
have to have the right people inthe right positions, Right, and
then you have certain peoplethere.
I guess for lack of a betterterm would be glue or bridges,
and I think a lot of my jobrequires to be a bridge.
(18:16):
I got to bridge the departmentstogether to to smash barriers
on communication.
So we have direct communication.
That communication is flowingBecause, you're right, like you
know, once you hand the partfrom, you know, from the laser
department over to the breakdepartment, they have to
understand what they have, whatinformation needs to be on the
(18:37):
prints that we develop for thatspecific step.
You know, our traveler that weuse, that they clock into, has
the proper notes for thesettings in the machine or
whatever.
What have you always needs toand everybody needs to know
where that information is right.
So we have a process that'spretty standard in that regard,
but any kind of things that arespecific to that part that needs
(18:59):
to be articulated.
We have to be able to havethese conversations so that they
know where to go, look for thisinformation, that the
information is going to be thereso a lot of times having,
especially on larger projects.
We'll have these meetings sothat everybody's on the same
page and unfortunately,sometimes that doesn't that
there's something that getsmissed, but our ability to go
back and look and how to improvethat is intrinsic to our
(19:23):
ability to be successful.
Yeah, so communication is key,Having enough information, not
just communication via email.
But you know, we all work inprints in our industry, man, so
our prints need to be clean.
And for those of us, for thoseof you watching that, that are,
you know, a shop like ourselves,you understand that your, your
(19:43):
prints from your customer areusually like some sort of
engineering print, which isgreat because engineers can
engineer everything they want toin this model, but that's not
necessarily real world.
So like it requires us to say,okay, guys, this is great, but
we're going to have to do itthis way to actually fabricate
it into real life.
And so having theseconversations and having the
communication open with thecustomer too, because everything
(20:04):
that we get that might be a 3Dmodel from the customer has to
get broken down in eachcomponent part that has to be
fabricated in order to make thattotal assembly happen.
So in doing that we have tohave what I would say, for lack
of a better term, is Zephyr.
Speak on some of our own printsso that we know how this part
needs to be traveled through theshop, so that things can happen
(20:25):
to it, the need to happen to itto ultimately make that final
part for the customer'sexpectation.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Love that and I guess I'd ask this question is there
anything that builds trust morethan wins, like when you hit a
couple of projects and you justhit them out of the park?
Doesn't that bring the teamtogether to want to keep?
Hey, let's take on a newarticle, first article, let's
take on a new project.
What's your experience withthat?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh, absolutely so, and I try to share those as many
as much as I can, becausemorale is a huge, huge
contributor.
Right?
So, if you're, if you'reconstantly, you know, naysaying
or bringing bad news or whathave you, you know, and even
when it is bad news, that's howyou present it to the team.
Right, like, in my mind, it'salways got to be a fail forward,
(21:10):
like, okay, this happened, butthis is what we need to do in
the future to make sure thisdoesn't happen.
And then you need buy-in.
Buy-in is huge, like, theteam's got to be bought in to.
Okay, this is the goal.
We got this big project, thisis what it means to us.
Here's how we're going toapproach it.
And then is everybody on board.
And so, well, hey, yes, we cando that, but we really need to
do it like this.
That's a great idea, so we'regoing to incorporate that.
(21:32):
So the buy-in from your team isalmost paramount to make sure
that everybody's on board, sothat the expectation is met.
So, even if you fail, you atleast have tried something.
Now, as a team, you're going togo back and say, okay, well,
that didn't work.
How are we going to workthrough this?
And so, and then when we have amajor win, we share that with
the group, and so a lot of timeswhat we do with our customers,
(21:54):
I'll even have them bring afinal finished product that the
customer has developed down herefor our guys to actually see
where the parts that they builtcan actually, you know, they can
see the whole totality of thesituation, and so fortunately,
we we do a lot of water parksand so they get to see these
pictures of of these massivewater slides and stuff that are
in play, and so that's a, that'sbeen a.
(22:16):
Really those things absolutelybuild culture, they build team
morale and then ultimately buildmore productivity.
They build team morale and thenultimately, build more
productivity.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
All right, I told you brandon had a lot of energy,
loved his insights and loved howhe brings a different
perspective to the conversationthan some of the shop owners
that we've had or some of theother leaders in the industry.
So thanks to brandon for thatagain.
Subscribe to the podcast.
If you're interested in being apart of the Circle of Five
coaching community, by all meansreach out, let me know.
(22:48):
Let's get you connected.
Let's invest in your mid-levelleaders in your organization.
So glad you're a part of this.
In the next episode we'll talkmore with Brandon about
workforce development, abouttheir re-entry process that they
do, working with theirindividuals in incarceration at
Zephyr, and then about why wouldZephyr hold a shop tour for
(23:11):
their competitors.
Check out that next episode.
All right manufacturing leaders, it is
time for episode four of thePeople in Production podcast.
I am really enjoying this.
I'm really loving the feedbackthat we're getting Today.
Our guest is Brandon Herringfrom Zephyr Products
Incorporated.
Brandon is a friend.
I've gotten to know him overthe past year and have really
(00:21):
come to appreciate him.
How he shows up and the energythat he brings to whatever room
that he's in Love it.
In this episode you're going tohear from Brandon as he talks
about the relationship betweensales and production.
He's going to talk aboutculture through the shop into
sales and how that culture fromthe shop flows into how he
communicates to other people.
He's going to talk about whento say no.
(00:43):
I find that to be aninteresting piece.
And then he shares a littleinsight as to how Zephyr tackles
their first article process.
Good stuff there.
And then he shares a number ofother things, like moving
forward after failing with yourgroup, how do you not cast blame
, how do you avoid gettingrooted in the frustration of
(01:05):
past projects.
So a lot of other things thatBrandon's going to share.
This is one of two episodes fromBrandon and part two will be
coming in our next release.
But check this out with Brandonand if you would be sure to
subscribe to this podcast, inwhatever avenue you're watching
it, whether it's on YouTube orSpotify or Apple Podcasts or
(01:29):
Apple Play, whatever environmentyou're checking it out, please
subscribe, keep up to date withwhat we're going.
And then I'd also love for youto offer some encouragement and
some gratitude to Brandon forsharing his insights.
So check out part one of myinterview with Brandon Herring.
All right, hey, everyone,welcome to the show.
(02:02):
I am really excited for havingBrandon Herring with me.
He is from Zephyr Products andBrandon.
Welcome to the show, man, howare you?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Thanks for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, man, I am looking forward to this full
disclosure.
I want to let people know thatZephyr is a client that I work
with and I actually helped torun a program that you helped
create at Zephyr, if Iunderstand right.
So you had a vision for, hey,how do we onboard these guys
that are coming into our company, and you started creating some
things around that.
We're going to dive into that alittle bit, but before we go
(02:36):
there, tell me what is Zephyrproducts and what type of
services do you guys provide?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So we are a metal contract manufacturer, so job
shop uh, we don't.
We don't have our own product.
We make parts for other peopleand a litany of different uh
markets.
Well, whether it's construction, uh to transportation, aviation
uh, aviation transportation,rail car, uh, we work in a lot
(03:02):
of different markets where wemake parts for these customers
and then they assemble theirparts and then ship them to
wherever they need to go.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And you do laser, you do cutting, you do welding, you
do fabricating, you domachining, you kind of work.
A wide swath of services, don'tyou?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Correct.
So we primarily process carbonsteel, stainless steel and
aluminum.
Whether that starts out as asheet of metal or some sort of
structural material, whetherit's round tube, square tube,
round bar, square bar angle, weprocess that material.
So we'll cut it on a laser or atube laser.
We will form that part.
(03:41):
If it needs to be bent, Then wetake it.
If it needs some machining,when you have some machining
capabilities, uh, then also we.
We have a lot, many differenttypes of welding that we do here
.
And then, finally, we do powdercoating.
So if we want to do a certaintype of powder coat paint, we do
that as well that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So what's your ideal client?
Who who's a good connection forsuffer products?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
well.
So we obviously, like manypeople in our field, prefer a
repeatable work.
Though we are a job shop, thereis a learning curve, you know.
So if it's something that'sgoing to be repeatable, so that
we can get our first articlesout of the way, so that we can
perfect the part, so that we cancontinually make it repeated
with quality and do and be ableto find efficiencies from
(04:27):
building that part repeatedly,so that we can make timelines
for those customers to havebuild.
They have, you know, buildschedules that we can meet, but
those customers can range fromany, really, like I said, a
litany of different markets thatwe cater to awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So tell me about your role with Zephyr.
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I'm currently in an outside sales role, so really I
maintain relationships, developnew relationships.
That's what I love about my job, because I can talk all day
long.
But no, there's a lot of thingsto Zephyr that are for us, that
the audience may or may not know, that we do more than just
(05:08):
making parts here.
So my job is to maintain theexisting relationships that we
have developed, a mind sharewithin those relationships, so
that we can, you know, do morework.
We try to.
We focus on creatingpartnerships with our customers.
We don't have.
We're not constantly going outand trying to find new customers
.
We're strengthening,strengthening the relationships
(05:29):
we have with our existingcustomers so that we can expand
that mind share within thosecustomers that's great.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
How long have you been with the company?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
uh almost eight years okay.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So what's kind of interesting to me?
And, um, as I shared, I'veworked with Zephyr.
I know a lot, I like to talk alot about culture and that's a
fascinating conversation.
And you're not necessarily aguy that goes out and you're on
the floor working the shop,working with the materials
themselves and the guysoperating that.
(05:59):
Yet in sales, culture is stilla dynamic for you.
Yet in sales, culture is stilla dynamic for you how you
interact with other companies,how you interact with your team
if something needs to be done acertain way or if there's a
change order or something likethat.
Tell me a little bit about howyou experience the Zephyr
culture and how you, as asalesperson, become an extension
(06:22):
of whatever culture Zephyr saysit has.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think so.
Um, well, I I basicallyadvocate for our customer right
to our, to our shop and and andin most companies, you know, you
have this um, a little bit ofopposition between production
and sales, right?
Uh, production that doesn'tlike change.
Uh, there's always a finitenumber of resources that you can
do, and sales is always tryingto push that bar right, we're
(06:48):
trying, we could do more, we cando more, we can do more, but in
the same case, we're alsorepresenting the customers
expectations within theorganization.
So you know I know what my by mycustomer expects based our
customer state expects, based onmy interactions with them, I've
seen the parts that they're endresult.
So I understand the level thatwe need to be, and so a lot of
(07:08):
times that'll be my job is toarticulate that to our
production team.
So not only just expectationsfor timeframe delivery and those
types of things, but also thelevel of detail that needs to be
coordinated or based on thevolume.
You know how do we need toapproach this project, and so I
do work with our project team ina lot of facets, especially
(07:30):
when we're onboarding newcustomers or a new product line
for a customer.
That's like new parts for us,where I work with not only our
strategic product folks but alsoour first article folks to make
sure that those expectationsare delivered.
Hopefully I answered yourquestion, yes.
So what's interesting to me isthere are two value points that
those expectations are delivered.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Hopefully I answered your question, yes.
So what's interesting to me isthere are two value points that
you need to connect.
You need to understand whoZephyr is, but you also need to
understand who your client is.
How do you get an understandingof, hey, this person that I'm
talking to?
What do I pick up about, whothey are, what their
(08:04):
organization is, and how doesthat affect how you interact
with your own company in thatregard?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
That's a great question.
So I think a lot of times youknow you can have any type of
salesperson, I guess.
But in this and what I'velearned in this line of work is
you have to have an intimate,like what I would say, at least
a high level intimateunderstanding of your
capabilities.
So I started at Zephyr inestimating, which requires you
(08:31):
to know, you have to know, alittle bit about every work
center so that you can properlyestimate it, so that you can put
a price to it Right.
So how much time and what theoperation, how that, how that
works in our work, so that youcan understand whether we can
whether it's in our wheelhouseor not, right?
So that's the first part of theconversation with the customer
that says hey, I have thisproblem, Can you help me solve
(08:53):
it?
Well, they show me a part.
I'm looking at it.
Well, do we have thecapabilities to make this part?
Is it a good fit for us?
Because it's maybe a little bitoutside of our comfort zone but
it's still in the realm of ourpossibility, right?
So it's knowing that, thatcapability, so that I can say
you know, mr Customer, mrsCustomer, yes, we could probably
help you with this part.
Or whoa, you know, that'ssomething that we don't
(09:14):
typically do.
There's so many differentvariations of metal fabrication
that really having anunderstanding of what those
capabilities are that you can door what your partners can do,
so I think you know, I knowwe'll probably get into this,
but like that's the value ofbeing in like a group, like NTMA
, is that having thisunderstanding of all these
potential partners that we havein this group that have this
extension if for lack of abetter term of your capabilities
(09:37):
, right?
So, and so that that bridgingthat gap for what's good work
for us and what's probably not agood fit for us is the first
part of the conversation whentalking to customers.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's great.
So what?
What's the parameters?
That would be a no for you.
Is it volume of work?
Is it type of material?
Help me understand a little bit.
Or, and when is it anopportunity for you to say you
go to your shop manager and justsay, hey, we've got this
opportunity.
Are we willing to expand tothis?
How do you know what to say noto and what to say yes to?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
well, so kind of a combination of all the above
right?
So, first of all, if it's somesort of material, uh, that is
outside of carbon steel,stainless steel or some
variation of aluminum, um, I'mgoing to be, that's going to
throw my first flag right, likeif it's some kind of, uh,
vibranium or something that wedon't, that you know is very
(10:33):
scarce and an unknown demand orsomething, or I don't even know,
the first place, based on whatmy suppliers and the awareness I
have of their product line, iseven something I can get.
The other thing is, is thatwhat type of operations would go
into making this part?
Ok, so we've identified thatthe material is something that
we are familiar with and we dohave access to.
What operations need to go intomaking this part, and so having
(10:56):
that understanding of thecapabilities that our shop has
or our partners have, it goesinto whether or not that part is
a good fit for us.
The other thing is is the volumeright?
Right?
So if it's a really complicatedpart and we might make it a
couple of times a year, you know, is the learning curve, you
know as far as the opportunityis going to cost me more to
(11:18):
learn how to make this part, oris it going to?
Or is it something that youknow it's just better left to a
shop that specializes in makingone offs?
You know that might be outsideof what we do, based on on who
we are as a company.
We do a lot of on-the-jobtraining here, so where some
companies you might pay a lotmore but you're also paying for
a skill level that's alreadythere, where we have lots of
(11:39):
high-level skills here but we'realso doing a lot of odd-to-job
training.
So having that understandingand where that balance is plays
a lot into those conversations.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You know, that's an interesting thing.
I was actually on the shopfloor at your place earlier this
week in fact, and I was talkingwith one of your guys who had
been doing a great big, massiveproject heavy, heavy material,
large project that they wereworking on and I just said it'll
be interesting.
Did you say you've got anotherone of these coming out?
And they said yeah.
(12:08):
And I said after having donethe first one, how long do you
think it'll take to do thesecond one?
And he said, oh, we're going tocut the time by a dramatic
amount because we've done itbefore.
And just in that conversationwith him I said so how are you
documenting this so that thetribal knowledge isn't just in
the team that did this one?
But if some of you move out theother day, how do we get some
(12:30):
other people that can pick upwhere you left off?
And what was interesting hejust said to me.
He said to me right at thatmoment that's awesome.
You said that because one of theguys was working on a project
I've done many times before insecond shift and he hadn't
worked on this project muchbefore.
So I went over and talked himthrough it and I just started
writing everything down I couldthink of to help him to be able
(12:54):
to do the job as well as I coulddo the job.
And the next morning he came inand he said the job was just
about perfect.
And I guess I'm just going intothat story to say when you talk
about doing something, ifyou're only doing it once or
twice a year, there's a lot oflearning curve for some of these
projects that are complicatedand you write it down, you
(13:15):
document it.
That affects your culture andthe confidence taking something
in.
But a company really has tounderstand that that first one
is going to take a lot longerthan the ones that follow.
How much does that play afactor when you're contemplating
a project like that?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
it's a great question .
We uh.
So we have our first, what wecall first article process,
which most, a lot of companies,most companies, if they aren't
doing should be doing uh, wherewe we do a couple of different
things.
First is is it something that'sthe first time that we'll be
doing a lot of uh?
That will have a learning curve.
The second is is risk right?
So this company though this is,it seems very simple on the
(13:52):
surface.
They're asking for 10,000pieces.
Should we really run a firstbatch just to make sure
everything's good before we runall these parts and we put
ourselves at risk that, ifthey're wrong, we're, you know,
out all this material and losttime, right?
So so we have a first articleprocess that not only does just
(14:22):
that like, it's basically aquality assurance through each
each work center, but alsodevelops process like processes
within specific to that part, tohelp us to gain efficiencies of
however much risk and howevermuch money we might do.
A first article run that's likemore than one piece, so it's
like five pieces or something sothat we can learn how, not only
how to make the part correctly,but also we learn efficiencies
in making those five parts, andobviously by the fifth part is
(14:43):
probably the best version of thepart.
But we also have developed howwe're gonna do this part,
whether it's from fixturing forweldments to understanding the
you know, the size of materialthat we want to bring in, how
we're ordering that material andthen for the runs that we know
we're going to do in production.
So we, so we, and that'sconstantly.
That's not necessarily adestination but a way of
(15:06):
business, right?
So our first article process isa living process.
It's constantly evolving, butwe do take that process very
seriously and actually have someresources dedicated to that,
and so I work with that team fora pretty pretty lockstep,
because a lot of stuff that I'mdoing is either new or it's a
(15:26):
new customer or it's a newcustomer, right.
So we want to make sure thatwe're giving a great first
impression, and then thatcontinuity strategy to make sure
that we're delivering qualityproducts on time.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So who's at the table for that conversation?
Is it engineering, is it fab,is it weld?
Who do you bring to that tableso that it's a real conversation
and not just a?
Well, we could do it this way.
We'll have to talk to thatdepartment.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So we have first article meetings at least once,
if not more than once, a week,to go over all the, all the
parts that we deem firstarticles.
And those are all the leaders,so the managers of each
department, and then any linelevel supervisors that would be
directly involved.
Usually that's like the well,supervisors that would be
directly involved so that we cando so.
So do we determine like thingslike well, ok, what type of
(16:15):
fixture do we need for this?
You know what, and how are wegoing to approach this?
And even all the way down tosome, in some cases, the
packaging.
Ok, this thing's painted now andwe got a bunch of them and it's
really big.
How are we going to get this tothe customer?
You know so, though, we mighthave estimated all these things
into the end of the offering tothe customer as far as a dollar
sign, but we have to really haveto drill down into the actual
(16:39):
execution of it.
So usually it's our leaders, soour department leadership, our
first article direct projectmanager, and usually, like
myself, our strategic productgroup, like myself, our
strategic product group which isusually the quoting team that
was involved in theconversations to deliver the
expectation to our team from thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Man, communication is so complex there and what I
think is interesting and everyorganization deals with this
something may not have gone wellfrom the handoff from this
group to this group and thenlater that day you're sitting in
a meeting with those samepeople, having to come up with
solutions for the next projectand stuff, and just having that
(17:22):
ability to be frank with eachother, to speak candidly with
each other, and I just thinkthat says something about the
importance of your culture.
How do we move forward withoutliving in the past, saying oh,
you jacked that up in the past.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Oh yeah, or like how did this happen?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
What have you seen in your days in this role?
What have you seen about theimportance of building trust and
what are some keys that you'veseen about how that trust has
been built?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So that's a great question too.
So some things in my mind.
What I've, what I've learned inmy experiences, is that you
have to have the right people inthe right positions, Right, and
then you have certain peoplethere.
I guess for lack of a betterterm would be glue or bridges,
and I think a lot of my jobrequires to be a bridge.
(18:16):
I got to bridge the departmentstogether to to smash barriers
on communication.
So we have direct communication.
That communication is flowingBecause, you're right, like you
know, once you hand the partfrom, you know, from the laser
department over to the breakdepartment, they have to
understand what they have, whatinformation needs to be on the
(18:37):
prints that we develop for thatspecific step.
You know, our traveler that weuse, that they clock into, has
the proper notes for thesettings in the machine or
whatever.
What have you always needs toand everybody needs to know
where that information is right.
So we have a process that'spretty standard in that regard,
but any kind of things that arespecific to that part that needs
(18:59):
to be articulated.
We have to be able to havethese conversations so that they
know where to go, look for thisinformation, that the
information is going to be thereso a lot of times having,
especially on larger projects.
We'll have these meetings sothat everybody's on the same
page and unfortunately,sometimes that doesn't that
there's something that getsmissed, but our ability to go
back and look and how to improvethat is intrinsic to our
(19:23):
ability to be successful.
Yeah, so communication is key,Having enough information, not
just communication via email.
But you know, we all work inprints in our industry, man, so
our prints need to be clean.
And for those of us, for thoseof you watching that, that are,
you know, a shop like ourselves,you understand that your, your
(19:43):
prints from your customer areusually like some sort of
engineering print, which isgreat because engineers can
engineer everything they want toin this model, but that's not
necessarily real world.
So like it requires us to say,okay, guys, this is great, but
we're going to have to do itthis way to actually fabricate
it into real life.
And so having theseconversations and having the
communication open with thecustomer too, because everything
(20:04):
that we get that might be a 3Dmodel from the customer has to
get broken down in eachcomponent part that has to be
fabricated in order to make thattotal assembly happen.
So in doing that we have tohave what I would say, for lack
of a better term, is Zephyr.
Speak on some of our own printsso that we know how this part
needs to be traveled through theshop, so that things can happen
(20:25):
to it, the need to happen to itto ultimately make that final
part for the customer'sexpectation.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Love that and I guess I'd ask this question is there
anything that builds trust morethan wins, like when you hit a
couple of projects and you justhit them out of the park?
Doesn't that bring the teamtogether to want to keep?
Hey, let's take on a newarticle, first article, let's
take on a new project.
What's your experience withthat?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh, absolutely so, and I try to share those as many
as much as I can, becausemorale is a huge, huge
contributor.
Right?
So, if you're, if you'reconstantly, you know, naysaying
or bringing bad news or whathave you, you know, and even
when it is bad news, that's howyou present it to the team.
Right, like, in my mind, it'salways got to be a fail forward,
(21:10):
like, okay, this happened, butthis is what we need to do in
the future to make sure thisdoesn't happen.
And then you need buy-in.
Buy-in is huge, like, theteam's got to be bought in to.
Okay, this is the goal.
We got this big project, thisis what it means to us.
Here's how we're going toapproach it.
And then is everybody on board.
And so, well, hey, yes, we cando that, but we really need to
do it like this.
That's a great idea, so we'regoing to incorporate that.
(21:32):
So the buy-in from your team isalmost paramount to make sure
that everybody's on board, sothat the expectation is met.
So, even if you fail, you atleast have tried something.
Now, as a team, you're going togo back and say, okay, well,
that didn't work.
How are we going to workthrough this?
And so, and then when we have amajor win, we share that with
the group, and so a lot of timeswhat we do with our customers,
(21:54):
I'll even have them bring afinal finished product that the
customer has developed down herefor our guys to actually see
where the parts that they builtcan actually, you know, they can
see the whole totality of thesituation, and so fortunately,
we we do a lot of water parksand so they get to see these
pictures of of these massivewater slides and stuff that are
in play, and so that's a, that'sbeen a.
(22:16):
Really those things absolutelybuild culture, they build team
morale and then ultimately buildmore productivity.
They build team morale and thenultimately, build more
productivity.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
All right, I told you brandon had a lot of energy,
loved his insights and loved howhe brings a different
perspective to the conversationthan some of the shop owners
that we've had or some of theother leaders in the industry.
So thanks to brandon for thatagain.
Subscribe to the podcast.
If you're interested in being apart of the Circle of Five
coaching community, by all meansreach out, let me know.
(22:48):
Let's get you connected.
Let's invest in your mid-levelleaders in your organization.
So glad you're a part of this.
In the next episode we'll talkmore with Brandon about
workforce development, abouttheir re-entry process that they
do, working with theirindividuals in incarceration at
Zephyr, and then about why wouldZephyr hold a shop tour for
(23:11):
their competitors.
Check out that next episode.
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