January 28, 2025 • 30 mins
The conversation revolves around the critical need for manufacturing companies to shift their focus from hiring for immediate needs toward investing in employees' long-term careers. By recognizing the value of character over traditional skills, bridging gaps between management and operational realities, and developing leadership, firms can foster talent retention and build thriving teams.
• The need for quality talent over mere numbers
• Importance of transferable skills from other industries
• The disconnect between executive goals and floor realities
• Necessity of leadership training for successful management
• Creating clear career pathways enhances employee retention
• Financial costs associated with employee turnover
• Call for equal investment in people and machinery
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right.
So you just finished statingsomething that I think is so
critical for us that we'restruggling with quality of
talent, not just bodies, and Iwas recently talking with a shop
owner and their leadership andwhat I discovered is that a
(00:21):
couple of members of theirleadership have only been in
their roles for between two andfour years and they moved to
leadership roles.
And I just asked if you couldbe confident that a hire could
become what you are two to fouryears into your career.
Would you be more confident inmaking hires moving forward?
(00:43):
And they're like, oh, we'd bethrilled with that.
We just haven't found that yet,and as I continue to unpack that
with people, what I discoveredis they didn't necessarily come
from the trades background.
One of them was a server in arestaurant and the other one
worked in garages and stuff likethat, but got into the trades.
So to your point about thetalent sometimes I wonder if we
(01:06):
can be more intentional aboutfinding the signature
characteristics that apply toquality machining or quality
manufacturing the way we need itto.
If we can hone in on thoseskill sets, then we can probably
explore outside of themanufacturing industry and find
talent that's going to achievewhat we want it to achieve.
(01:28):
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I couldn't agree more .
I mean it's, there's a certainI don't want to say mentality,
but you know, just know how thatcomes naturally from a
mechanical perspective, and Isay that confidently because I
comes naturally from amechanical perspective, and I
say that confidently because Idon't have a mechanical bone in
my body.
(01:52):
You know, like I understand howall this stuff works, but to
actually do it myself, like myhands just don't work in that
way, my mind just doesn't workin that way, right.
So it's really that mechanicalaptitude that again, I think is
more of a innate and kind ofnatural thing that you know
people pick up on earlier intheir lives from being exposed
to that.
And you know you find that a lotwith people that had you know
(02:14):
parents or family members orfriends or whatever it may be
that they're exposed to at ayoung age that you know were
doing all their own homeimprovement work and doing all
their own, you know work ontheir cars and you know that,
were involved in and engagedwith it early on and, and you
know, just have a general knackfor the understanding of the way
things work.
You know, um, I was thinkingthat show like how it's made,
you know like it's like there's,there's, there's the people
(02:38):
that you know already know howit's made.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah yeah, some people look at that and say, of
course.
And others of us are staring atit thinking how did they do
that?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And you know they're for the longest time for us
right, like companies aren'tgoing to pay us a hefty fee to,
you know, to recommend them.
You know somebody that works infood service.
You know, like they're onlygoing to be interested in people
that have directly relatedskills from you know,
(03:07):
professional work and experiencethat they can put on a resume
Right, and so naturally thatthat, you know, led to us, you
know, not taking the time tohave those conversations with
folks that didn't have that.
You know those those things ontheir resume already.
But, you know, as things have,things have, you know gotten
tighter, I should say, in thelabor market.
(03:28):
You know it's forced us to thinkoutside the box and, you know,
start having conversations withjust about anybody and everybody
right.
And we have found a lot ofsuccess, especially here after,
like, the post-pandemic hiringcraze that went on.
That was really the thing thatforced a lot of companies to
start getting creative and youknow, that's when we started
(03:49):
calling on a lot of people thatwe wouldn't have previously.
And we've made a number ofsuccessful placements, you know,
a few of which that you know Ihold in high regard, that you
know are folks that never wouldhave gotten a look for these
positions and prior years thathave excelled and and you know
their roles, and so it's Itotally agree with that Like
(04:10):
kind of need to get we need toget away from that, you know
mentality of like we, we, weneed to see this experience
proven in somebody before we'regoing to give them, give them a
shot, and you know about, like,what are those?
What are those base buildingblocks that are really necessary
to, you know to, to create asuccessful, you know, employee
(04:32):
machinist, whatever it may be solet me, I'm going to put this
out there and this is going torub some people the wrong way,
and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Um, whether you are a company of three people or a
company of 3,000 people, I thinkwhat most of us are making a
mistake in this industry with isthat we are hiring people for a
job and we are not hiringpeople for a career, and we are
so busy just trying to plugholes in the ship that's sinking
(05:01):
that we're throwing people inand we haven't created a pathway
to say you know what?
This is the entry point and theopportunities for you to grow.
Look like this In fact, we willprovide training to people who
are here for so long that'sgoing to make them eligible to
be a supervisor in the future,and we're going to invest in you
(05:22):
and cause you to grow.
And we get so tunnel visionedon looking at a skill set and we
never think about what thisperson needs as a vision for
their future, not just apaycheck today.
And if we're hiring for peoplewho just want a paycheck today,
we're going to lose those peoplewhen they can get a bigger
paycheck someplace else, and Ithink that's one of the missing
(05:45):
links that organizations aren'tthinking enough about their
future to hire people to careers.
They're just hiring to jobs.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I couldn't agree more .
And I mean it's, it's got a.
There's a perpetual nature tothat right.
Like when you're, when whenyou're hiring bodies just to
fulfill, you know, solveshort-term problems and fulfill
short-term needs.
Like you're hiring bodies justto fulfill, you know, solve
short-term problems and fulfillshort-term needs, like you're
going to just continue chasingyour tail right, like that
body's going to leave and thenyou're going to need another and
it's just going to be a there'sa cyclical nature to it, right.
(06:16):
And how are you to grow as anorganization if you're just
constantly chasing your tailright?
And so I totally agree fromthat standpoint.
Like your tail right.
And so I I totally agree fromthat standpoint.
Like I think you know, if I'm,if I'm the business owner, if
I'm the shop owner, you know I Iwould intentionally slow the
growth you know intentionallyturn down.
(06:38):
you know, you know potentialorders um to, to put more of an
emphasis into, into specifically, and by that I mean hiring
creating an environment and anopportunity that is more of a
career than just a job.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So what's the gap you think between how the C-suite
looks at the company's growthand how the reality on the floor
looks at the company growth?
Because I think what you'redescribing is that gap that you
know what we did X revenue lastyear.
We want to grow that by 18%this year and sometimes
(07:17):
projecting those growths by thenumber is really out of touch
with the crisis that they'reexperiencing on the floor with
hiring the right talent andraising up the right leadership,
would you say.
That's where the gap issometimes in this.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Absolutely, and particularly in manufacturing,
and I, you know, I look at itand compare it in comparison to,
like, you know, engineering,for example, or really any like
service based business.
In a service based businessbusiness and like for for
engineers, we use like designersas an example, like they're the
work that that individual isdoing is is billable to projects
(07:55):
, right, and so you know, soit's a lot easier to, you know,
look at the look at those hires,with you know that return on
investment mentality, whereas inlike manufacturing it's, you
know, it's really like there'smore emphasis put into the
machines and the machinery andyou know what and you know what
(08:15):
they can produce, and notnecessarily as much put into the
employees which you know, makessense from a financial business
perspective.
Right, I mean it's, it's the.
You know the employees.
We'll use a machinist as anexample.
It's not like they're, they're,they're getting their work.
That they're doing is gettingbilled out at an hourly rate
(08:35):
Like it's.
To my knowledge, it's seldomthat you know that jobs are
priced in that way, it's I needthis many parts produced and
then this is how much I'm goingto pay for these parts, and
obviously they're factoringtheir labor costs into it.
But you know, without that thatlabor cost being, you know,
directly available and having amultiplier markup applied to
that like I feel like that'swhere that, that you know that
(08:58):
separation that gets created,that you know mentality of the
employee versus the owner, yeah,like that's a big impact a big
thing that influences that, butI haven't seen it yet and, from
what I've read and researched, Idon't know that automation is
really ever going to reach thepoint where it's going to
(09:19):
completely alleviate the needfor people in these positions.
And so, in the absence of that,like you, you have to, you have
to give more consideration to,you know that that individual,
because they, you know, I think,looking at them and more of in
terms of this is the, thisperson's actually the, the, the
(09:42):
thing that's returning me andinvest you know, providing a
return on my investment.
It's not the machine right.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I think shifting that mentality would serve a lot of
those places as well let methrow out a thought here, and I
don't know that I've ever reallyput this out there before and
I'm getting too much thoughtbefore.
But if we start hiringautomation, we're going to be
spending hundreds of thousanddollars on machines right, and
those machines.
(10:08):
We are going to invest tens ofthousands of dollars in
maintaining those machines goingforward.
You know what I'm saying?
Because the people, themachines doing the work, have to
be operating at a peak level.
Why aren't we doing that nowwith people?
Why aren't we doing theinvestment in our people to make
(10:32):
sure they're operating at theirhighest level?
So we're invested in theirwellbeing, we're invested in
their thinking, we're investingin how they are disrupted today
because of the chaos that'shappening at home and stuff like
that.
I think we're making a bigmistake by saying we'll hire
machines to do it in the futurewithout the reality that there's
(10:55):
going to be maintenance cost inthat and really there's
maintenance cost in what we'redoing.
We're just failing to pay forthat and that's why we're
running on a such a highturnover rate, because our
machines, which are our people,keep breaking and leaving the
organization.
What are your thoughts on that?
That's well said.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I mean, it's a good analogy and I couldn't agree
more.
These machines are just a veryexpensive large.
(11:36):
There should there should bejust as much, if not more, of a
investment of time, effort,energy and, you know, figuring
out how to make that employee asproductive and happy and
healthy as possible.
As, as you know, these, theseshop owners, are applied to
these machines and I, and I getit too.
I mean these machines, you know,in some instances are millions
(11:58):
of dollars, right, you know, andyou know an employee you know
isn't, at least from day one,you know that, expensive.
So I mean, I get it, whilethere's a lot, you know, a lot
more intentionality put behind.
You know how do we keep thismachine happy and in comparison
to how do we keep this employeehappy, happy, and in comparison
(12:20):
to how do we keep this employeehappy.
But, uh, when you startconsidering the cost of
retention and everything thatgoes into that and I, you know,
I think a lot of companies havein business owners have heard
about, like, how costlyretention is, but I don't know a
lot that have actually analyzedthe, the true cost of what that
is for them and when factoringon all the indirect components
(12:40):
of it.
You know I've heard a varietyof different estimates but you
know I don't think five timestheir base compensation is too
far off from how costly it is tolose a you know a good
production employee.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
And there's also a lot of research that says, as
long as you have an empty spoton your line, you're losing
$14,000 per person at a at aaverage, some of those are
upwards of $25,000 just by nothaving that spot filled.
So they're like oh, I don'twant to work with Jarboe because
it's too expensive for me tohire someone right now.
(13:15):
Well, you're literally losing$14, dollars by having that spot
not filled and I find that tobe an interesting statistic it's
one worth the be mindful of,that's for sure let me ask you
this, and I want to be mindfulof your time.
We'll go another ten minutes orso here if you're good with that
(13:36):
.
But yeah, so you know mypassion is developing leadership
, particularly mid-levelleadership in the manufacturing
space.
So here is a curious questionand don't name names, I don't
want to upset any of yourclients or anything like that,
but how often do you have agreat employee and a great
(13:58):
company and you place thatemployee and they just can't
work with their leader?
I mean, does that ever happenwhere, man, how we've been
pitched, this company just feelslike a perfect fit, and then
you get a leader that is notcarrying out the vision of the
company and it's creating chaosfor a team member?
Is that a unique thing?
(14:20):
Or do you see the leadershipthat your placements work with
don't feel consistent with thepulse of the organization?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It's I don't have enough fingers to count how many
times we ran into that exactscenario and I think it's really
like the the why behind that isa lot of manufacturing
companies, and I think of thesame in the same way in
construction is a lot of timesthose, those mid, mid-level
(14:51):
managers are, you know, were thebest production employees.
Right, they're the bestmachinist and they got elevated
that role because they were thebest production employee and you
know were the best productionemployees.
Right, they're the bestmachinist and they got elevated
that role because they were thebest production employee.
And you know same, for I assumeconstruction a lot too, and you
know, that's you know that verywell may be true.
They might be the bestproduction worker there, but it
doesn't necessarily mean thatthey're going to be the best
leader, and I feel like that'swhere, you know, a lot of
(15:13):
businesses have got thatdecision wrong in terms of who
to place in that position,because it's really you know
that person is going to itcarries more responsibility than
anybody else as far as you know, the the retention of, you know
, the staff that they've beenentrusted to to lead and manage,
and so it's.
(15:34):
And I say this a lot, a lot oftimes when I'm talking with
candidates, like you know, mostpeople you know, even though
they're going to work for acompany and this company has a
name, like it's really a personthat they're going to work for
Right and and it's, it's thatperson that a lot of times
dictates how successful,enjoyable of an opportunity that
(15:56):
it is.
And so you know, we make it apoint to try and you know
whether or not, like I know,some companies.
We have to work through hr andyou know they got their thing
and I don't want us to talk intotheir managers and stuff, but
we'll still try and learn thingsabout that individual.
If not, you know, get to knowthem personally, because that's
really what we're.
You know what, what that'sreally what dictates whether or
(16:19):
not we're going to be able tofind a good match.
It's somebody that's going towork well with this person that
you know is going to be managingand leading them Right, and so
it's it's you know having moretimes than again, I can count
where we you know all otherthings considered, it would have
been a great match, butunfortunately, because of the
person that was in thatmid-level management role, it
(16:39):
ended up not being a good match.
And when you see it happen once, it's like, okay, maybe those
just weren't the rightpersonalities, right.
But when you see it happen two,three, four times, then you
start recognizing that there'slikely an issue and for us in
our business.
(16:59):
We come into a lot ofinformation and insight,
especially as a third party, alot of times in these employment
relationships, and so we get alot more transparent feedback
from folks that we have workingat different places and
information that likely, youknow, that business owner would
(17:21):
never come into themselves, andso it puts us in a precarious
position sometimes because wedon't want to be telling our
clients how to run theirbusiness right but at the same
time, like we want theirbusiness to be successful,
because the more successfultheir business is, the more
successful.
You know we're going to be morepositions we're going to have
to fill for them, right?
So you know we we want toprovide that coaching and
(17:42):
encouragement where we can, butyou know, have to.
We're walking on eggshells everytime that we do particularly
when it's feedback related toyou know somebody that you know
a client's put in a managementposition and you know feeling
like maybe they they need toidentify somebody else for that.
But those that have listened, Imean plenty of success stories
of us providing that feedbackand the necessary changes being
(18:04):
made to prevent the retentionissues from being reoccurring.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well, if they need help developing their leaders,
let them know.
I'm available and I'd be gladto work with them.
But you know, in the flip side,if you keep placing someone in
a role and the company concludesthat you know what that's our
third person we've hired from,you're not sending us very good
(18:31):
people.
At some point you got to startthinking wait, maybe it's some
of our infrastructure that'swrong to receive the quality of
people they're sending, notnecessarily our people.
Their people are wrong andsometimes you've got to look at
patterns and you've got todiagnose what you're seeing
based on the pattern, ratherthan conclude that we're never
(18:52):
wrong.
And I would imagine, from astaffing agency, that could be
very frustrating for you guys tonavigate that.
Well, man, this is fascinating.
Anything else, what would yourappeal be to a company that's
feeling that staffing pinch andthey need someone?
What would you wanna say tothem about how Jarboe might be
(19:15):
able to be a conversation theyshould have or a partner they
should collaborate with?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
yeah, I I'd say, if you're looking for a partner
that is actually gonna listen toyou, know what your problems
are and and and even help you tokind of define what they you
know are at a more granularlevel, like we are that, and, a
matter of fact, like we reallyonly have interest in partnering
(19:43):
with companies that care enoughabout you know, talent
acquisition and making the righthires to put forth that time,
effort, energy and setting us upfor success.
So I'd say that's a keycomponent, um, and then you know
, just more generally speaking,like for anybody, that's that's
(20:05):
in a pinch.
I'd say, you know, don't, don'tlet that that feeling of of
pressure you know force you intomaking a hiring decision, you
know, without giving know fullconsideration to how good of a
fit it's going to be, cause, youknow again, you know, just
going to end up costing yourselfmore time and create more angst
(20:25):
if, if, if, you're letting thatpressure, you know, get to you.
And I see that all all toooften where these you know quick
knee jerk decisions are madeout of the feeling of you know
needing to get somebody on boardright away, and it's.
it's seldom when there isn't,you know, some form of
thoughtful consideration youknow, put into it from both ends
of the table that it ends upbeing a good, good long term fit
(20:48):
.
So you know, I'd say, if you'relooking for a partner that
actually cares about that, likethat's us.
You know, our, our mentality is, you know has been like let's,
let's make it a point to workourselves out of work, right,
and what I mean by that is wewant to make enough successful
placements with our customers,with, with hires that actually
stick, that eventually theydon't need us anymore.
(21:10):
You know they're fully staffedand have a team that they're
able to to retain, and I can andI can say we've been successful
in doing just that workingourselves out of work and,
thankfully, when you do it andyou do it the right way.
Generally, you're getting areferral to some other business
that needs help.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
So I'd also encourage people personally don't assume
affordability or lack there ofthese services, because when you
talk about onboarding someoneand payroll and benefits and
stuff like that, I just wouldencourage people to at least
reach out and have theconversation rather than
conclude we don't wanna pay that, because the cost of the wrong
(21:54):
hire is far more expensive thaninvesting in the right process
to get the right hire.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I'll just speak to that real quick too Like one
thing that I feel, like you know, gets lost a lot of times in
terms of, you know,consideration of a staffing fee
is everything that goes intothat, because, you know, again,
our goal is to identify theright person.
You know that we've confidentcould be a good long term fit
and we're not going to.
(22:23):
We're not going to send overrecommendations that people
don't feel that way for right.
So you know we may send one ortwo candidates for an open
position and you know in theclient size it's oh, you found
two people and now we're payingyou eight, 10, you know whatever
it is, and the reality is ittook us 200, 300, 400 other
(22:45):
people to get to these twopeople.
So it's like you're notactually paying for the person
that you end up hiring.
And I mean, technically, theplacement fee is tied to that
individual right, but whatyou're really paying for is all
the stuff that happened to getto that one person right.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, that's a great point.
Well, hey, let me do this.
I do something called the speedfeed, where I'm just going to
throw a handful of questions atyou.
Just give me your firstreaction to it.
You don't have to overthink it,but would love your take.
So if you go to a Chiefsfootball game with any important
person, who would you want togo with?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Jason Kelsey.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oh, that would be an interesting experience.
Is that just because you cansit up in the suite where he'd
be sitting, or is that justbecause you think he's a fun guy
?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think he's a fun guy and be a great time and
obviously with the ties that hehas to Kansas City Chiefs
football you better watch thegame.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Love it, love it.
So those early mornings whenyou have to get to an early
meeting, are you a coffee energydrink guy or something else to
keep you going?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Coffee, specifically iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Okay, winter and summer, you're an iced coffee
guy Winter and summer.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Very good it goes down quicker.
It gets me going quicker.
Very good, it goes down quicker.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
It gets me going quicker, very good.
So what do you think is thegreatest threat to manufacturing
right now?
Employee retention.
Okay, not surprising you feelthat way, but I think a lot of
people feel that way, so, yep,good.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
What's one tool?
Speaker 1 (24:29):
in your leadership tool belt.
You couldn't live withoutServant mentality.
Love that.
How does that show up?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
any given day for you Doing everything I can to
position staff for success.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, love it, love it for success.
Yeah, love it, love it.
Um, if there was one leader, ifthere was one skill set, you
could master, uh, in a day, whatwould you pick?
so many um power of positivethinking, I mean I'm gonna
(25:09):
define that as a skill set, butno, I absolutely think there's a
skill to that.
Uh, by the way, a great bookalong that line is a book called
the gap and the gain by benhardy and dan sullivan.
So I highly recommend that,focusing on what you've
accomplished rather than what'snot right.
So highly recommend it.
Good response, I love it.
Last question and you don'thave to speak too fast on this,
(25:35):
but give it whatever time youneed If you could only tell the
audience one thing about yourpassion, what would you have to
say?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
My passion is to, you know, leave a lasting impact.
You know, make the world abetter place.
And you know it's yeah.
The older I get, the more Icome to realize that it's
impossible to be everything toeveryone.
So, you know, just beingmindful that there's a ripple
(26:12):
effect to you know, the thingsthat you do in life and you know
, even though it may not seemlike a very significant impact,
that you're leaving on the world, you know, if you influence an
individual in the right way,again it's got that ripple
effect.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
So good, and that's a great way to end things.
Thanks so much for being a partof this, ryan.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, appreciate it, ryan, we'll see you later Take
care.
All right.
So you just finished statingsomething that I think is so
critical for us that we'restruggling with quality of
talent, not just bodies, and Iwas recently talking with a shop
owner and their leadership andwhat I discovered is that a
(00:21):
couple of members of theirleadership have only been in
their roles for between two andfour years and they moved to
leadership roles.
And I just asked if you couldbe confident that a hire could
become what you are two to fouryears into your career.
Would you be more confident inmaking hires moving forward?
(00:43):
And they're like, oh, we'd bethrilled with that.
We just haven't found that yet,and as I continue to unpack that
with people, what I discoveredis they didn't necessarily come
from the trades background.
One of them was a server in arestaurant and the other one
worked in garages and stuff likethat, but got into the trades.
So to your point about thetalent sometimes I wonder if we
(01:06):
can be more intentional aboutfinding the signature
characteristics that apply toquality machining or quality
manufacturing the way we need itto.
If we can hone in on thoseskill sets, then we can probably
explore outside of themanufacturing industry and find
talent that's going to achievewhat we want it to achieve.
(01:28):
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I couldn't agree more .
I mean it's, there's a certainI don't want to say mentality,
but you know, just know how thatcomes naturally from a
mechanical perspective, and Isay that confidently because I
comes naturally from amechanical perspective, and I
say that confidently because Idon't have a mechanical bone in
my body.
(01:52):
You know, like I understand howall this stuff works, but to
actually do it myself, like myhands just don't work in that
way, my mind just doesn't workin that way, right.
So it's really that mechanicalaptitude that again, I think is
more of a innate and kind ofnatural thing that you know
people pick up on earlier intheir lives from being exposed
to that.
And you know you find that a lotwith people that had you know
(02:14):
parents or family members orfriends or whatever it may be
that they're exposed to at ayoung age that you know were
doing all their own homeimprovement work and doing all
their own, you know work ontheir cars and you know that,
were involved in and engagedwith it early on and, and you
know, just have a general knackfor the understanding of the way
things work.
You know, um, I was thinkingthat show like how it's made,
you know like it's like there's,there's, there's the people
(02:38):
that you know already know howit's made.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah yeah, some people look at that and say, of
course.
And others of us are staring atit thinking how did they do
that?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And you know they're for the longest time for us
right, like companies aren'tgoing to pay us a hefty fee to,
you know, to recommend them.
You know somebody that works infood service.
You know, like they're onlygoing to be interested in people
that have directly relatedskills from you know,
(03:07):
professional work and experiencethat they can put on a resume
Right, and so naturally thatthat, you know, led to us, you
know, not taking the time tohave those conversations with
folks that didn't have that.
You know those those things ontheir resume already.
But, you know, as things have,things have, you know gotten
tighter, I should say, in thelabor market.
(03:28):
You know it's forced us to thinkoutside the box and, you know,
start having conversations withjust about anybody and everybody
right.
And we have found a lot ofsuccess, especially here after,
like, the post-pandemic hiringcraze that went on.
That was really the thing thatforced a lot of companies to
start getting creative and youknow, that's when we started
(03:49):
calling on a lot of people thatwe wouldn't have previously.
And we've made a number ofsuccessful placements, you know,
a few of which that you know Ihold in high regard, that you
know are folks that never wouldhave gotten a look for these
positions and prior years thathave excelled and and you know
their roles, and so it's Itotally agree with that Like
(04:10):
kind of need to get we need toget away from that, you know
mentality of like we, we, weneed to see this experience
proven in somebody before we'regoing to give them, give them a
shot, and you know about, like,what are those?
What are those base buildingblocks that are really necessary
to, you know to, to create asuccessful, you know, employee
(04:32):
machinist, whatever it may be solet me, I'm going to put this
out there and this is going torub some people the wrong way,
and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Um, whether you are a company of three people or a
company of 3,000 people, I thinkwhat most of us are making a
mistake in this industry with isthat we are hiring people for a
job and we are not hiringpeople for a career, and we are
so busy just trying to plugholes in the ship that's sinking
(05:01):
that we're throwing people inand we haven't created a pathway
to say you know what?
This is the entry point and theopportunities for you to grow.
Look like this In fact, we willprovide training to people who
are here for so long that'sgoing to make them eligible to
be a supervisor in the future,and we're going to invest in you
(05:22):
and cause you to grow.
And we get so tunnel visionedon looking at a skill set and we
never think about what thisperson needs as a vision for
their future, not just apaycheck today.
And if we're hiring for peoplewho just want a paycheck today,
we're going to lose those peoplewhen they can get a bigger
paycheck someplace else, and Ithink that's one of the missing
(05:45):
links that organizations aren'tthinking enough about their
future to hire people to careers.
They're just hiring to jobs.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I couldn't agree more .
And I mean it's, it's got a.
There's a perpetual nature tothat right.
Like when you're, when whenyou're hiring bodies just to
fulfill, you know, solveshort-term problems and fulfill
short-term needs.
Like you're hiring bodies justto fulfill, you know, solve
short-term problems and fulfillshort-term needs, like you're
going to just continue chasingyour tail right, like that
body's going to leave and thenyou're going to need another and
it's just going to be a there'sa cyclical nature to it, right.
(06:16):
And how are you to grow as anorganization if you're just
constantly chasing your tailright?
And so I totally agree fromthat standpoint.
Like your tail right.
And so I I totally agree fromthat standpoint.
Like I think you know, if I'm,if I'm the business owner, if
I'm the shop owner, you know I Iwould intentionally slow the
growth you know intentionallyturn down.
(06:38):
you know, you know potentialorders um to, to put more of an
emphasis into, into specifically, and by that I mean hiring
creating an environment and anopportunity that is more of a
career than just a job.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So what's the gap you think between how the C-suite
looks at the company's growthand how the reality on the floor
looks at the company growth?
Because I think what you'redescribing is that gap that you
know what we did X revenue lastyear.
We want to grow that by 18%this year and sometimes
(07:17):
projecting those growths by thenumber is really out of touch
with the crisis that they'reexperiencing on the floor with
hiring the right talent andraising up the right leadership,
would you say.
That's where the gap issometimes in this.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Absolutely, and particularly in manufacturing,
and I, you know, I look at itand compare it in comparison to,
like, you know, engineering,for example, or really any like
service based business.
In a service based businessbusiness and like for for
engineers, we use like designersas an example, like they're the
work that that individual isdoing is is billable to projects
(07:55):
, right, and so you know, soit's a lot easier to, you know,
look at the look at those hires,with you know that return on
investment mentality, whereas inlike manufacturing it's, you
know, it's really like there'smore emphasis put into the
machines and the machinery andyou know what and you know what
(08:15):
they can produce, and notnecessarily as much put into the
employees which you know, makessense from a financial business
perspective.
Right, I mean it's, it's the.
You know the employees.
We'll use a machinist as anexample.
It's not like they're, they're,they're getting their work.
That they're doing is gettingbilled out at an hourly rate
(08:35):
Like it's.
To my knowledge, it's seldomthat you know that jobs are
priced in that way, it's I needthis many parts produced and
then this is how much I'm goingto pay for these parts, and
obviously they're factoringtheir labor costs into it.
But you know, without that thatlabor cost being, you know,
directly available and having amultiplier markup applied to
that like I feel like that'swhere that, that you know that
(08:58):
separation that gets created,that you know mentality of the
employee versus the owner, yeah,like that's a big impact a big
thing that influences that, butI haven't seen it yet and, from
what I've read and researched, Idon't know that automation is
really ever going to reach thepoint where it's going to
(09:19):
completely alleviate the needfor people in these positions.
And so, in the absence of that,like you, you have to, you have
to give more consideration to,you know that that individual,
because they, you know, I think,looking at them and more of in
terms of this is the, thisperson's actually the, the, the
(09:42):
thing that's returning me andinvest you know, providing a
return on my investment.
It's not the machine right.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I think shifting that mentality would serve a lot of
those places as well let methrow out a thought here, and I
don't know that I've ever reallyput this out there before and
I'm getting too much thoughtbefore.
But if we start hiringautomation, we're going to be
spending hundreds of thousanddollars on machines right, and
those machines.
(10:08):
We are going to invest tens ofthousands of dollars in
maintaining those machines goingforward.
You know what I'm saying?
Because the people, themachines doing the work, have to
be operating at a peak level.
Why aren't we doing that nowwith people?
Why aren't we doing theinvestment in our people to make
(10:32):
sure they're operating at theirhighest level?
So we're invested in theirwellbeing, we're invested in
their thinking, we're investingin how they are disrupted today
because of the chaos that'shappening at home and stuff like
that.
I think we're making a bigmistake by saying we'll hire
machines to do it in the futurewithout the reality that there's
(10:55):
going to be maintenance cost inthat and really there's
maintenance cost in what we'redoing.
We're just failing to pay forthat and that's why we're
running on a such a highturnover rate, because our
machines, which are our people,keep breaking and leaving the
organization.
What are your thoughts on that?
That's well said.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I mean, it's a good analogy and I couldn't agree
more.
These machines are just a veryexpensive large.
(11:36):
There should there should bejust as much, if not more, of a
investment of time, effort,energy and, you know, figuring
out how to make that employee asproductive and happy and
healthy as possible.
As, as you know, these, theseshop owners, are applied to
these machines and I, and I getit too.
I mean these machines, you know,in some instances are millions
(11:58):
of dollars, right, you know, andyou know an employee you know
isn't, at least from day one,you know that, expensive.
So I mean, I get it, whilethere's a lot, you know, a lot
more intentionality put behind.
You know how do we keep thismachine happy and in comparison
to how do we keep this employeehappy, happy, and in comparison
(12:20):
to how do we keep this employeehappy.
But, uh, when you startconsidering the cost of
retention and everything thatgoes into that and I, you know,
I think a lot of companies havein business owners have heard
about, like, how costlyretention is, but I don't know a
lot that have actually analyzedthe, the true cost of what that
is for them and when factoringon all the indirect components
(12:40):
of it.
You know I've heard a varietyof different estimates but you
know I don't think five timestheir base compensation is too
far off from how costly it is tolose a you know a good
production employee.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
And there's also a lot of research that says, as
long as you have an empty spoton your line, you're losing
$14,000 per person at a at aaverage, some of those are
upwards of $25,000 just by nothaving that spot filled.
So they're like oh, I don'twant to work with Jarboe because
it's too expensive for me tohire someone right now.
(13:15):
Well, you're literally losing$14, dollars by having that spot
not filled and I find that tobe an interesting statistic it's
one worth the be mindful of,that's for sure let me ask you
this, and I want to be mindfulof your time.
We'll go another ten minutes orso here if you're good with that
(13:36):
.
But yeah, so you know mypassion is developing leadership
, particularly mid-levelleadership in the manufacturing
space.
So here is a curious questionand don't name names, I don't
want to upset any of yourclients or anything like that,
but how often do you have agreat employee and a great
(13:58):
company and you place thatemployee and they just can't
work with their leader?
I mean, does that ever happenwhere, man, how we've been
pitched, this company just feelslike a perfect fit, and then
you get a leader that is notcarrying out the vision of the
company and it's creating chaosfor a team member?
Is that a unique thing?
(14:20):
Or do you see the leadershipthat your placements work with
don't feel consistent with thepulse of the organization?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It's I don't have enough fingers to count how many
times we ran into that exactscenario and I think it's really
like the the why behind that isa lot of manufacturing
companies, and I think of thesame in the same way in
construction is a lot of timesthose, those mid, mid-level
(14:51):
managers are, you know, were thebest production employees.
Right, they're the bestmachinist and they got elevated
that role because they were thebest production employee and you
know were the best productionemployees.
Right, they're the bestmachinist and they got elevated
that role because they were thebest production employee.
And you know same, for I assumeconstruction a lot too, and you
know, that's you know that verywell may be true.
They might be the bestproduction worker there, but it
doesn't necessarily mean thatthey're going to be the best
leader, and I feel like that'swhere, you know, a lot of
(15:13):
businesses have got thatdecision wrong in terms of who
to place in that position,because it's really you know
that person is going to itcarries more responsibility than
anybody else as far as you know, the the retention of, you know
, the staff that they've beenentrusted to to lead and manage,
and so it's.
(15:34):
And I say this a lot, a lot oftimes when I'm talking with
candidates, like you know, mostpeople you know, even though
they're going to work for acompany and this company has a
name, like it's really a personthat they're going to work for
Right and and it's, it's thatperson that a lot of times
dictates how successful,enjoyable of an opportunity that
(15:56):
it is.
And so you know, we make it apoint to try and you know
whether or not, like I know,some companies.
We have to work through hr andyou know they got their thing
and I don't want us to talk intotheir managers and stuff, but
we'll still try and learn thingsabout that individual.
If not, you know, get to knowthem personally, because that's
really what we're.
You know what, what that'sreally what dictates whether or
(16:19):
not we're going to be able tofind a good match.
It's somebody that's going towork well with this person that
you know is going to be managingand leading them Right, and so
it's it's you know having moretimes than again, I can count
where we you know all otherthings considered, it would have
been a great match, butunfortunately, because of the
person that was in thatmid-level management role, it
(16:39):
ended up not being a good match.
And when you see it happen once, it's like, okay, maybe those
just weren't the rightpersonalities, right.
But when you see it happen two,three, four times, then you
start recognizing that there'slikely an issue and for us in
our business.
(16:59):
We come into a lot ofinformation and insight,
especially as a third party, alot of times in these employment
relationships, and so we get alot more transparent feedback
from folks that we have workingat different places and
information that likely, youknow, that business owner would
(17:21):
never come into themselves, andso it puts us in a precarious
position sometimes because wedon't want to be telling our
clients how to run theirbusiness right but at the same
time, like we want theirbusiness to be successful,
because the more successfultheir business is, the more
successful.
You know we're going to be morepositions we're going to have
to fill for them, right?
So you know we we want toprovide that coaching and
(17:42):
encouragement where we can, butyou know, have to.
We're walking on eggshells everytime that we do particularly
when it's feedback related toyou know somebody that you know
a client's put in a managementposition and you know feeling
like maybe they they need toidentify somebody else for that.
But those that have listened, Imean plenty of success stories
of us providing that feedbackand the necessary changes being
(18:04):
made to prevent the retentionissues from being reoccurring.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well, if they need help developing their leaders,
let them know.
I'm available and I'd be gladto work with them.
But you know, in the flip side,if you keep placing someone in
a role and the company concludesthat you know what that's our
third person we've hired from,you're not sending us very good
(18:31):
people.
At some point you got to startthinking wait, maybe it's some
of our infrastructure that'swrong to receive the quality of
people they're sending, notnecessarily our people.
Their people are wrong andsometimes you've got to look at
patterns and you've got todiagnose what you're seeing
based on the pattern, ratherthan conclude that we're never
(18:52):
wrong.
And I would imagine, from astaffing agency, that could be
very frustrating for you guys tonavigate that.
Well, man, this is fascinating.
Anything else, what would yourappeal be to a company that's
feeling that staffing pinch andthey need someone?
What would you wanna say tothem about how Jarboe might be
(19:15):
able to be a conversation theyshould have or a partner they
should collaborate with?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
yeah, I I'd say, if you're looking for a partner
that is actually gonna listen toyou, know what your problems
are and and and even help you tokind of define what they you
know are at a more granularlevel, like we are that, and, a
matter of fact, like we reallyonly have interest in partnering
(19:43):
with companies that care enoughabout you know, talent
acquisition and making the righthires to put forth that time,
effort, energy and setting us upfor success.
So I'd say that's a keycomponent, um, and then you know
, just more generally speaking,like for anybody, that's that's
(20:05):
in a pinch.
I'd say, you know, don't, don'tlet that that feeling of of
pressure you know force you intomaking a hiring decision, you
know, without giving know fullconsideration to how good of a
fit it's going to be, cause, youknow again, you know, just
going to end up costing yourselfmore time and create more angst
(20:25):
if, if, if, you're letting thatpressure, you know, get to you.
And I see that all all toooften where these you know quick
knee jerk decisions are madeout of the feeling of you know
needing to get somebody on boardright away, and it's.
it's seldom when there isn't,you know, some form of
thoughtful consideration youknow, put into it from both ends
of the table that it ends upbeing a good, good long term fit
(20:48):
.
So you know, I'd say, if you'relooking for a partner that
actually cares about that, likethat's us.
You know, our, our mentality is, you know has been like let's,
let's make it a point to workourselves out of work, right,
and what I mean by that is wewant to make enough successful
placements with our customers,with, with hires that actually
stick, that eventually theydon't need us anymore.
(21:10):
You know they're fully staffedand have a team that they're
able to to retain, and I can andI can say we've been successful
in doing just that workingourselves out of work and,
thankfully, when you do it andyou do it the right way.
Generally, you're getting areferral to some other business
that needs help.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
So I'd also encourage people personally don't assume
affordability or lack there ofthese services, because when you
talk about onboarding someoneand payroll and benefits and
stuff like that, I just wouldencourage people to at least
reach out and have theconversation rather than
conclude we don't wanna pay that, because the cost of the wrong
(21:54):
hire is far more expensive thaninvesting in the right process
to get the right hire.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I'll just speak to that real quick too Like one
thing that I feel, like you know, gets lost a lot of times in
terms of, you know,consideration of a staffing fee
is everything that goes intothat, because, you know, again,
our goal is to identify theright person.
You know that we've confidentcould be a good long term fit
and we're not going to.
(22:23):
We're not going to send overrecommendations that people
don't feel that way for right.
So you know we may send one ortwo candidates for an open
position and you know in theclient size it's oh, you found
two people and now we're payingyou eight, 10, you know whatever
it is, and the reality is ittook us 200, 300, 400 other
(22:45):
people to get to these twopeople.
So it's like you're notactually paying for the person
that you end up hiring.
And I mean, technically, theplacement fee is tied to that
individual right, but whatyou're really paying for is all
the stuff that happened to getto that one person right.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, that's a great point.
Well, hey, let me do this.
I do something called the speedfeed, where I'm just going to
throw a handful of questions atyou.
Just give me your firstreaction to it.
You don't have to overthink it,but would love your take.
So if you go to a Chiefsfootball game with any important
person, who would you want togo with?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Jason Kelsey.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oh, that would be an interesting experience.
Is that just because you cansit up in the suite where he'd
be sitting, or is that justbecause you think he's a fun guy
?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think he's a fun guy and be a great time and
obviously with the ties that hehas to Kansas City Chiefs
football you better watch thegame.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Love it, love it.
So those early mornings whenyou have to get to an early
meeting, are you a coffee energydrink guy or something else to
keep you going?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Coffee, specifically iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Okay, winter and summer, you're an iced coffee
guy Winter and summer.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Very good it goes down quicker.
It gets me going quicker.
Very good, it goes down quicker.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
It gets me going quicker, very good.
So what do you think is thegreatest threat to manufacturing
right now?
Employee retention.
Okay, not surprising you feelthat way, but I think a lot of
people feel that way, so, yep,good.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
What's one tool?
Speaker 1 (24:29):
in your leadership tool belt.
You couldn't live withoutServant mentality.
Love that.
How does that show up?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
any given day for you Doing everything I can to
position staff for success.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, love it, love it for success.
Yeah, love it, love it.
Um, if there was one leader, ifthere was one skill set, you
could master, uh, in a day, whatwould you pick?
so many um power of positivethinking, I mean I'm gonna
(25:09):
define that as a skill set, butno, I absolutely think there's a
skill to that.
Uh, by the way, a great bookalong that line is a book called
the gap and the gain by benhardy and dan sullivan.
So I highly recommend that,focusing on what you've
accomplished rather than what'snot right.
So highly recommend it.
Good response, I love it.
Last question and you don'thave to speak too fast on this,
(25:35):
but give it whatever time youneed If you could only tell the
audience one thing about yourpassion, what would you have to
say?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
My passion is to, you know, leave a lasting impact.
You know, make the world abetter place.
And you know it's yeah.
The older I get, the more Icome to realize that it's
impossible to be everything toeveryone.
So, you know, just beingmindful that there's a ripple
(26:12):
effect to you know, the thingsthat you do in life and you know
, even though it may not seemlike a very significant impact,
that you're leaving on the world, you know, if you influence an
individual in the right way,again it's got that ripple
effect.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
So good, and that's a great way to end things.
Thanks so much for being a partof this, ryan.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, appreciate it, ryan, we'll see you later Take
care.
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