August 28, 2025 • 28 mins
What happens when an executive quietly outsources performance reviews to ChatGPT? Or when your C-suite is loudly preaching about AI adoption while refusing to touch the tools themselves? In this episode, I sit down with Talk HR to Me columnist and Head of People at Quantum Metric, Alana Fallis, to tackle real listener questions in a live advice-column format.
We dig into the messy realities of AI in the workplace—from misplaced trust in automated reviews, to the awkward theater of “innovation” at the executive level, to the human side of employee fears around automation. And yes, we even unpack the HR dilemma of whether an employee in recovery should be allowed to stock the breakroom fridge with non-alcoholic beer.
Related Links:
- Join the People Managing People community forum
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- Connect with Alana on LinkedIn
- Check out Quantum Metric
- Talk HR to Me
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A manager who is just copy and pasting a Gen AI
review into the forum.
That's not going to make yourteam member feel good.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What we've got to get at with leaders here is like
what is your real fear ormisalignment?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is none of our last jobs, right?
So let's build a relationshipto work that is as healthy as
can be, and prepare ourselvesfor what we're interested in.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
There will be a day where maybe the CEO does get
outsourced to AI.
We never know.
Welcome to the People ManagingPeople podcast, the show where
we help leaders keep work humanin the era of AI.
I'm your host, david Rice, andtoday I'm joined by Alana Fallis
.
She is the head of people atQuantum Metric and the author of
(00:44):
our recurring advice columnTalk HR to Me.
If you haven't seen it on thewebsite, it's definitely worth
checking out.
But today we're going to bedoing the advice column live on
the podcast.
We've got a nice blend ofquestions for you.
Some focus specifically on AIchallenges within the
organization and a few that aremaybe more traditional HR
dilemmas.
I won't go on with a big longintro, we'll just get straight
(01:05):
into it.
Enjoy, all right.
Well, alana, welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You ready to do this like live in person?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Let's do it live and in person.
The people have questions andwe have to answer the people's
questions.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So let's get to it.
You know I'm amazed by, like,how often we get them by like
how often we get them.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I'm like this is great, I know, it's so nice.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm always like, oh, it's another one, it's another
one, so it's great.
Yeah, some of them come throughand I'm like, oh, that's a good
one.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Like I can't I know, I know, I like rub my hands
together.
I'm like, all right, we'regonna get to that.
We're gonna get to that, yeah,all right.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So, yeah, if you're new to it, alana has this advice
column on the website.
It's called talk hr Me.
We do it every couple of weeksand we take the questions from
that and she just does like anadvice column.
So we're going to this week'sstraight in this show, so all
right.
The first question that we'regoing to ask here is I just
found out one of our executivesis using Gen AI to draft
(01:59):
employee evaluations and it'snot part of any sanctioned pilot
.
He says it's saving time, butI'm concerned about bias,
confidentiality and tone.
Am I overreacting orunderestimating the risk?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
No, I think you're perfectly reacting.
My CISO, my chief securityofficer, would be all over it
here because there's a couple ofconsiderations right, like
ChatGPT is not secure to beentering confidential company
information.
So there's sort of two thingsto keep in mind here.
I would certainly have thiswriter check with their security
team about any internalprotocols necessary or policy
(02:36):
around the use of Gen AI.
Some companies have arequirement that only specific
instances are used or there'slike specific guidelines for how
to use chat GPT, and soobviously the risk is entering
company information for one andfor two to the point of the
question not filtering throughfor bias and for tone and the
delivery of information.
So definitely check with yoursecurity team and make sure
(02:58):
there are clear protocols on howto use Gen AI for your leaders.
But on the other hand, ifsanctioned and if allowed, using
Gen AI to support withperformance reviews is a good
idea.
I do it.
I write the foundation of whatI'm looking to do and sort of
the bullet points and then useit to brainstorm or flesh out a
thought if I'm having trouble,or I'll upload something, like
we have, you know, at my company.
We have a specific Geminiinstance for my company so I can
(03:21):
upload something securely andask for some feedback.
So it definitely should be usedfor like a time saver and for
organizing thoughts and forbrainstorming.
But a manager who is just copyand pasting a Gen AI like review
into the form that's not goingto make your team member feel
good and it's going to make themfeel like it's not important
(03:41):
and that you didn't give a crapabout filling it out.
So I don't recommend it forthat reason.
But it's about the right use,referencing it, using it for
brainstorming, but definitelynot just like setting it and
forgetting it and copy pastingand dashes and all into the form
.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So, yeah, yeah, I would say like it can provide
inspiration for you, but it'sterrible with what nuanced
context.
Empathy, emotional intelligence, which is all the things.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
that a performance, it's terrible.
With what Nuance?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
context, empathy, emotional intelligence, which is
all the things that aperformance review should be
built on.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, you know you don't want
to use it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's like one of the things it does.
Now you've probably noticedthis too, is it's like he uses
all these like it's not this,it's that sentences and I'm like
this would be terrible in aperformance review.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, yeah, and their team members definitely know
it's going to be really obvious.
So, yeah, I know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
No, definitely not overreacting on that one.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
The appropriate amount ofconcern, I think.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So the next one is and obviously you know where we
are at this moment in time a lotof it is going to be a lot of
AI questions and please do keepsending them because we love
them.
Yeah, we do, but we're rollingout Gen AI access org wide and
HR is expected to leadenablement, but the C-suite
won't touch it.
I'm caught between pushingchange and protecting
(05:01):
credibility.
How do I confront performativeinnovation from the top?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I first have to say that I want to have a wine with
this writer because I get it.
I get it.
Let's talk about it.
Okay, I would, in this case,book some time with the person
who is actually making this askof you I'm assuming somebody on
the executive team and getreally clear with them about the
goal of what they're trying toachieve and have a partner in
(05:26):
goal setting and clearexpectations for the use of AI
across the company.
I mean, if it were me like mykind of sassy answer is I'd be
making this everybody else'sproblem.
I would be saying, hey, we'reall in this together, but my
real answer is get really clearon what you're actually being
asked to do and whether thejuice is actually worth the
squeeze.
Is it important?
(05:46):
What are we trying to achieveand how can I actually help?
Because a use of sort of likeeverybody use AI with a you
can't see me but a general handwave, you know, is not enough.
So I would get some realpartnership with the person
who's made the ask of you andthen I think what I would also
do is have a one-on-ones withother members of the executive
team and ask them, haveexploratory conversations about
(06:07):
their pain points and in whatways generative AI can support,
you know, more team productivityand address the manual labor
issues that they have on theirteam.
So make it an attractive offerto them, make it something that
they can be excited about, makeit a partnership, but definitely
don't attempt to just go do itin the face of resistance and
without clarity and then liketry to make it happen.
(06:28):
So it really is a group effort.
So I think that's where I'dstart.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, I mean we've seen this come up a little bit
recently, right Like the idea ofinnovation theater.
It's like I think what we'vegot to get with leaders here is
like what is your real fear ormisalignment that's?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
attached to this right, so like are you afraid of
looking foolish?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
and exposing like some kind of technical gap and
then maybe losing respect.
Is that your headache?
Because like we all are dealingwith this you know like welcome
to the party and that sort ofvulnerability and experiencing
that might actually bringeveryone closer to you and make
them respect you even more thefact that they watched you go
through that.
You know what I mean, so thatcould be, something that you
(07:14):
have to overcome within thatconversation and I think also
there's like this belief withinsome leadership circles that
it's like ai is really more forthe doers, it's not for the
deciders and it's like a goodtool for task work, but strategy
, you know, it's not there and Ithink that what we're seeing
now, especially with some ofthese new tools.
I've seen a few lately that Iwas like whoa yeah, you know, I
(07:38):
think we're seeing that it isbecoming a strategic tool yeah,
and so like, yeah, how does yourbehavior change around that
then?
Like, and how do you use it to?
To just become better at yourjob like everybody else?
Right, because?
Like there will be a day wheremaybe the CEO does get
outsourced to AI.
We never know.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
God, we'll see, we'll see.
Well, yeah, that's a reallyinteresting perspective too,
because I think I wasapproaching the question and
maybe even with the assumptionthat there's like a lack of
interest or resistance in someway.
But you uncovered somethingreally interesting, I think that
is it around a fear of a lackof knowledge of how to use the
tools and if that's the case,what kind of enablement can we
do across the organization andsupport not just the executive
(08:16):
team but everybody with like howto use this technology?
So that was a really good callout, I think.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, it comes from like I've seen some research
recently, especially inparticular with HR leaders, that
they feel sort of likeunqualified to use it, like not
technically savvy enough, and II think like there's so many
different ways to experimentwith it that you don't really
have to be and then, once youstart to sort of like open the
door and create a certain levelof comfort for yourself.
You can take it so manydifferent places, and I think
(08:44):
particularly for like CHROs.
Think about like the culturedrag of like.
Everybody else is forced to useit, but you don't you know like
you're not like embodying anyof this stuff that you want.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Totally, Totally, yeah.
And the advice that I alwaysgive to my team is that like
this is the tools that are goingto help us, you know, be
successful in the future andmaintain a competitive skill set
.
Like if I didn't also do it thenI wouldn't be practicing what I
preach.
And so you know, what'sinteresting is that I, at the
beginning of this year, gave anH1 challenge to my team to find
two use cases.
I mentioned we use Gemini at mycompany for how Gemini can ease
(09:18):
their workload or how they canuse it in their roles, and so
and they had to present back tothe rest of the team a couple
months ago and I made very clearthat it's not about I'm not a
super technical person.
I'm not expecting you to beable to code or be an engineer.
I'm asking you to explore andsee how AI can support you in
your role.
Specifically giving twoexamples and like, starting slow
, I think, really helps sort ofplant the seed.
(09:39):
Once you start seeing and youget more experienced with it,
you're like, oh, and I can dothis and I can do this, and so
yeah, you start learning,covering ways to use it you
never imagined.
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
But the thing I've been hearing lately is like I've
been hearing this term AI,fluent culture.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Like and.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I'm like that's nice to say yeah.
But like the thing is is, likeI think, for most companies
everybody's in this like verydifferent place with it.
And the cool thing is like aleader is why you should feel
like invited to use it and tolead with it.
Is that like there's someonewithin the organization that is
in the same level of using?
(10:16):
You know what I mean?
Like they're just starting out,or they're like they figured a
few things out but they haven'tquite figured out how to apply
it, or whatever you know.
Right, so I think it's a goodtime to like start using it and
thinking about how you're goingto like essentially steward
meaningful adoption.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, exactly.
And what will that mean?
What will that mean for yourorganization and your team?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah All right, so
the third one we have here iswe're automating parts of our HR
ops function and my mostdependable coordinator just
asked is my job safe?
I care about my team, but Ialso know that more change is
coming.
How do I balance honesty withreassurance?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
more change is coming .
How do I balance honesty withreassurance?
Speaking of generative AI, Imean, what a doozy.
You know and I really feel you.
I'm glad this person asked thisquestion because I'm sure
they're hardly the only personthinking of it and I think like,
foundationally, my answer tothis question is, when faced
with queries like this from yourteam, is to sort of go
transparently through yourknowns and unknowns.
Right, there is a lot that we doknow about what's important to
(11:20):
the business, what our goals arefor the year, what our
headcount will look like, youknow, over the next couple
months, but there's things thatwe don't know about how fast
technology will advance and whatchatbots will look like six
months from now and what thatwill mean for the business.
Right, and so I have.
I guess maybe I'm unique inthis perspective and let's
debate if you'd like to, but Ihave.
Contrary to our last sort ofquestion, where I believe in the
(11:42):
potential of AI, I believe thatit can leverage and automate
certain parts of work.
I'm not yet at the state whereI think it will be replacing
jobs as quickly and justcompletely replacing humans,
like at the rate that everybodyseems to think.
I know we've seen layoffs.
Recently there was a big I thinkit was a Microsoft layoff of a
big HR team, 9,000 people that'stons right, and those are big
enterprise businesses that havehuge amounts of roles and maybe
(12:05):
some of those roles will remainredundant.
But there's also a small partof me that's like let me see
their careers page in like sixto 12 months.
I think it's not proven yetthat it can completely replace
the role of a human, especiallyon small teams.
But I would frame the responseto this person like here's our
knowns and unknowns.
We don't know what technologywill look like Right now.
(12:25):
You have a spot here and let'smake the most of that spot by
learning to use the technologyand leveraging it to be really
awesome at your job.
So leaning into it and teachingpeople.
To our last question how toadopt it, how to get really
awesome at what you do, how tobecome more data driven as your
HR ops coordinator, how topresent back to the executive
team, to be someone who canreally leverage and be on the
(12:46):
forefront of innovating withtech and generative AI I think
is actually probably the bestway to keep your job safe, all
of our jobs safe.
But yeah, those are my startingthoughts.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, I agree, I think like we are seeing it.
They always say like we areseeing it.
They always say like, oh, it'snot AI that's going to take your
job, it's a human with AI.
I think that that's very much asentiment of the moment, which
is fine.
Yeah, I don't think that thatis the long-term reality.
Five years from now, I think anAI will take your job.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Okay, okay, so you think so.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Okay, but at the same , what we are seeing is there's
an over indulgence with it.
Right, yeah, from leadership.
So they want it to do all thesethings?
yeah, but they're creating likethe recipe for boomerang
employees because, like we saw,with clarna, we've seen it with
some, some other companies, highprofile cases where yeah you
end up having to bring peopleback because it doesn't quite do
everything, or you find outthat actually, like the human qa
step, right, quality assurancestep is really, really important
(13:42):
, yeah, and so, like I think,getting back to sort of like the
the key question here, you knowyou got to be honest, without
being harsh, right, you can'tguarantee anything like we just
have to be that's real aboutthis moment and actually like
that.
When you see like leaderspretending like automation's not
changing things, it's like whatare you doing, right?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
right it should be changing some things.
If it's not, then yeah, well,like if you're acting like it's
not.
Right sure.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I'd actually be more nervous about that.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That's right, that's right, yeah, but like I think
you could say to the person likeokay, we're automating some of
the more repetitive work, yes,but like we do want to free you
up to do other things and I wantto work with you to identify
what those things are.
I think one of the problemsthat we're having and why so
many people get nervous, is theyhear leaders say things like
(14:35):
it's going to free humans up todo higher order tasks, and then
someone inevitably goes well,what is that?
What are those tasks?
and they don't have an answeryou're an answer and I'm like
well it's time to start havingan answer, because people, when
you don't have an answer, andit's like what you're going to
expect them to do.
People get really panicky, yeahand I understand that, like
from a skills and roledevelopment perspective.
(14:57):
We kind of don't know.
But we've got to start givingpeople some sort of direction of
travel, like here's what youshould be learning.
I don't know where it's going togo, but I know that this will
be relevant experience to whereit does Like we've got to at
least be able to map that.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I think it creates a lot of nervous or tension when
we can't answer that questionno-transcript people.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And for the record not to sound like doomsday,
anyone on the team can losetheir job for like any number of
reasons over the next couple ofyears.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So it's not just AI, it's not just.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
AI.
So I always try to say, likethis is none of our last jobs,
right?
Like so, let's build arelationship to work that is as
healthy as can be and prepareourselves for what we're
interested in and, to your point, like march in the direction of
what skills will be strategicand demand and interest to you
over time.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I always come back to like they're gonna need smart
people who have a vision, orlike an idea of what to do with
things like.
So, if you find yourself inthese positions, like, start
thinking about well, what can Ido differently?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
what can I?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
how can I, yes, try this or like experiment and just
keep learning and keep?
Yeah, I was talking to somebodyrecently who said the number
one thing is shifting from likewhat I do to what I become.
You know, like okay, what, howmuch can I learn and absorb is
essentially going to be one ofthe biggest skills of the future
(16:42):
, and I think that's why I kindof say, like give people the
agency, like tell them, I wantto shape this with you, I don't
want to dictate it to you.
Yeah, you come to me, you tellme like, oh, I'm actually
falling into this thing, andit's really interesting and I
want to keep going you know,like we can work together to
figure out how you get there,but that's sort of the direction
.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Totally, and I've said before, people have to be
in the driver's seat of theirown development and of their own
career journey.
And, yeah, I think you knowdefinitely having this person
lean into more of developingthat technical skillset and
learning to leverage technologyand have it you know, obviously
(17:24):
working in media, this isn'teven the first thing I've seen,
just wipe out jobs sure, right,right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
No, that's a good point, it's like it kind of
gives you a perspective of likeI remember like things will
shift but at the end of the day,like this thing that we do is
not actually going anywhere.
It it's not like people aregoing to put down their phones
and stop reading and stopwatching things and stop
listening to podcasts totally soat the end of the day, like how
do I now use this thing toshape those things that I always
(17:55):
used to?
I mean, it used to be much morelabor intensive.
Right, if we can minimize thelabor but create more output?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
like, let's just figure out how to do that, you
know yeah, totally not to get usoff track, because this is a
workplace in hr podcast, but didyou see the release of the Y
Combinator?
Like what kind of submissionsthey're looking for for their
next class?
Some of these were crazy.
It was like someone build an AItool, please and pitch it to us
that can build new seasons ofretired TV shows, like new
(18:21):
seasons of Friends, using AI.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I'm like nobody wants that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, no, no.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nobody wants that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
This is like the AI music thing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Oh my God, the selling of the no, the signing
of the HR artist.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
We're like boo and you're like what?
Why Like some of this music isabsolutely dreadful.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Of course, of course it's dreadful.
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I love that to keep us sidetracked, but recently I
saw a leaked.
They had the playlist gatewhere all these billionaires'
playlists were leaked, and oneof the guys was listening to
some AI-generated song and helistened to it 60 times in a row
on his playlist.
I'm like what, what?
What kind of a deep psychosisdo you have to be?
(19:05):
I couldn't listen to any song60 times in a row have something
going on.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
that's funny, oh man all right back to the question
yeah, back to questions.
Back to questions why is itethical that if two people have
the same job, the same job title, they can have dramatically
different salaries?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Why is it ethical?
Well, there are a lot offactors that go into
compensation, and I think it'sprobably more helpful for this
person to think of compensationfor a particular role or for a
particular team, as in bands, asopposed to like one static
figure that doesn't change andeverybody gets the same number.
But there's a lot of reasonswhy someone people in the same
position might be paid adifferent place in the comp band
(19:50):
, and it can be years ofinternal experience, as in they
were just promoted into thisrole.
You will likely be at thebottom of the band if you were
just promoted into a new roleExternal experience, what people
were doing before they got here.
Many companies pay based onregion, even if remote companies
or like national locations.
Someone in New York makes moremoney than somebody in Idaho,
for example, because of the costof living, and so those are
(20:13):
some of the reasons.
But a comp band can vary fromabout like 30 to 60 percent on
the high to low range, and so ifyou do have questions about
your compensation, I definitelysuggest that you involve your
manager in asking why things are, why you are placed where you
are.
But those are some reasons onwhy that might be the case.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I mean you know years of like, you know those
conversations, like well, howmuch do you make?
Yeah, sure, sure, yeah.
But like, the things I alwayscome back to is like all right,
does my pay accurately reflectthe value that I add?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
and do.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I feel like that's applied correctly yeah if so,
it's tough to question that,right?
I'd say, like is performancemeasured fairly, transparently,
consistently, all thosequestions like you gotta look at
that and if you have feedbackon that, next time they send out
the survey, be honest.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, sure, sure yeah , and you know also like
obviously have some hand in myown compensation program at my
own company, and it's notuncommon to see one role that
has like a 40k band ofdifferential right.
And some people, I think, makethe mistake of thinking like,
well, I was newly promoted, Ishould be at the top of the band
for the new position, andthat's just.
(21:30):
That's just not how that works,right?
And if you feel that you, oryou suspect you, might be paid
(21:50):
unfairly, I would sort of dosome reflection on those items
that I just said.
Do a little bit of marketresearch, do a little bit of
research about you know whatsimilar companies are paying for
a similar position and then askthe question.
It doesn't hurt to raise yourhand to ask.
I'll say that it hurts to raiseyour hand and make an
accusation.
But I would start with theexploratory question about why
you make what you do and why youare in the band.
(22:11):
And also one last point on thisyou want room to grow within
the band, like year over year.
So if you're at the top of acompensation band, you're
probably due for a promotion ordue for a next role, but you're
not promoted at the end of everyyear, right, but, like in my
company, we give merit increasesat the end of every year, right
, but, like in my company, wegive merit merit increases at
the end of each year, and sothere's.
So there has to be, like,latitude to grow and space to
grow.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So just those are a couple points to think of, a
couple points to think throughand in that too, I would add,
just like keep in mind thatthese systems get audited and
corrected over time yeah just,you know, like it's not on a
one-off basis, so like it maytake a year, but within that
year they may come back to itand go.
Actually we've got somediscrepancies here.
(22:51):
We've got to like close thesegaps or whatever right just say
you know, raise it, but don'tobsess about it, because at the
end of the day, you've got to doit in the right way and they're
not going to change anything onanybody's schedule but their
own.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That is true, that is true because that's just a
career advice yeah, sure, makeyour case and then the company
will tell you they'll let youknow.
Yeah, they'll let you know,yeah, this is true all right.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Last question we have for today is one of my direct
reports is in recovery.
He brings a six pack ofnon-alcoholic beer to work each
day.
We work in manufacturing, whichwas I was like I'm picturing
this in the break room fridge ofan office, so I'm brings a six
pack of non-alcoholic beer towork each day we work in
manufacturing, which was I waslike I'm picturing this in the
break room fridge of an office,so I'm glad that they clarified
that.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It says.
I don't have any problem withthis myself, but some other
employees have made commentsabout him just grabbing a beer
in the middle of the day.
One of the women on the teamhas complained to me that he
smells of beer.
I know that there isn't anyalcohol content in these beers,
but he has told me that theysupport his recovery.
But I don't want this continueddistraction.
(23:57):
What should I do?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, this is quirky, this is different.
yeah, yeah this is quirky.
What I think you should do iscontinue to let him have the
non-alcoholic beer.
And there's a couple reasonsFor one addiction is a
disability that's covered underthe ADA, and so the employer is
expected to make a reasonableaccommodation for somebody under
the ADA with a qualifieddisability for non-alcoholic
(24:24):
beer.
And he goes to file a claim andyou have to go to court
probably very small, but thatsaid, I think it's the right
thing to do.
I mean, it's non-alcoholic beer.
If it was alcoholic beer, thatwould be a whole different
answer to my question.
But I think what I would do ismake sure, if the team is
chattering about it, I wouldmake sure that they know that
it's non-alcoholic beer.
Like I would correct theassumption that he's like
(24:45):
getting drunk and hanging out onthe job.
I think that's yourresponsibility to do that.
You shouldn't be giving anyinformation about this person's
recovery.
They can share it if they wantto, but if not I would shut down
the conversation about thenon-alcoholic beer.
And you know what Maybe I'mmaking this?
The person who complains aboutthe smell the smell of beer can
be kind of gnarly Like.
I don't love the smell of beer.
I got a simple solution for you.
(25:07):
One of my companies I worked atdid this.
It was great Mouthwash littledisposable plastic cups in the
bathroom for everybody.
Everybody can have a littlerefreshment at lunch and freshen
up when they need to.
So I would shut down thecommentary and I would let them
have their non-alcoholic beer,and I would encourage them to
bring a non-alcoholic beverageof their choice to work, should
it provide them comfort okay one.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I love the mouthwash idea because I think it's
interesting.
What would be interesting to me?
To me, the track is like do wesee less dental claims?
That would be interesting.
I don't know, maybe that would.
I'd just be like I just want totrack that and see.
Yeah, but I think you're right,like for me.
Okay, he hasn't violated anypolicies, right, you know?
(25:52):
The key is to address like thedistraction.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah.
Not their behavior or not makeit about him Totally, totally
yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I don't think you can question someone's recovery
methods.
I mean, maybe if you're also inrecovery.
Right, sure, I maybe, if you'realso in recovery, but I think
you're probably going to be moreempathetic if that is your
experience.
So like it's kind of likesetting some clear boundaries
here about, like, what you needto observe about your colleagues
and what you don't, quitefrankly, Like there's certain
things.
They're none of your business.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Totally.
Sometimes people just gottaremind you of business, I mean
you know what I'm saying, unlessthey are concerned that this
person is drinking on the job,in which case you need to like
address that.
That's actually not the case,because then that can erode
trust and cause confusion.
So definitely nip that in thebud.
But yeah, just because anemployee has questions about
another employee doesn't meanthat they're entitled to like a
(26:41):
lot of answers.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, and I love that you brought up the ADA thing,
because you got to think like isthat a reasonable non-alcoholic
beer on the daily, which seemslike probably an expensive habit
then I think you shouldaccommodate it.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think you should just let it be.
I mean, I used to work with aguy who drank like four Red
Bulls a day and I think it'scrazy.
I mean, yeah, he would like hehad jitters.
He made me nervous.
Look at that.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
And he would sweat a lot.
I was like, okay, like you'retrying to say something, but I'm
like sure you know what.
I don't know what he's goingthrough I don't know like how
disengaged he might be if we cutoff his caffeine intake well, I
hope he is okay today.
Yeah, I hope that he foundmaybe like acupuncture something
yoga.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I hope he found yoga yeah well these were some good
questions.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
You gotta do this more often.
I like this format this was fun.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Thank you me too.
Thank you for sending us yourhr workplace questions.
We really loved answering them,so do it again.
Yeah, keep them coming, we havean anonymous form that you can
just submit a question.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
you don't have to put in any personal details or
anything like that, just put,put in the question, hit submit
and yeah, we'll tackle them inthe column or maybe here on the
show.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But, alana, thanks for giving us some of your
expertise today.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And if you're looking for the form, you can find it
on a link to it.
On all the Talk HR to Mecolumns that you see on the
website, it's like right therein the first couple of
paragraphs, and we'll also put alink in the episode show notes.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Cool, all right, until next time everybody have a
non-alcoholic beer you.
A manager who is just copy and pasting a Gen AI
review into the forum.
That's not going to make yourteam member feel good.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What we've got to get at with leaders here is like
what is your real fear ormisalignment?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is none of our last jobs, right?
So let's build a relationshipto work that is as healthy as
can be, and prepare ourselvesfor what we're interested in.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
There will be a day where maybe the CEO does get
outsourced to AI.
We never know.
Welcome to the People ManagingPeople podcast, the show where
we help leaders keep work humanin the era of AI.
I'm your host, david Rice, andtoday I'm joined by Alana Fallis
.
She is the head of people atQuantum Metric and the author of
(00:44):
our recurring advice columnTalk HR to Me.
If you haven't seen it on thewebsite, it's definitely worth
checking out.
But today we're going to bedoing the advice column live on
the podcast.
We've got a nice blend ofquestions for you.
Some focus specifically on AIchallenges within the
organization and a few that aremaybe more traditional HR
dilemmas.
I won't go on with a big longintro, we'll just get straight
(01:05):
into it.
Enjoy, all right.
Well, alana, welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You ready to do this like live in person?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Let's do it live and in person.
The people have questions andwe have to answer the people's
questions.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So let's get to it.
You know I'm amazed by, like,how often we get them by like
how often we get them.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I'm like this is great, I know, it's so nice.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm always like, oh, it's another one, it's another
one, so it's great.
Yeah, some of them come throughand I'm like, oh, that's a good
one.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Like I can't I know, I know, I like rub my hands
together.
I'm like, all right, we'regonna get to that.
We're gonna get to that, yeah,all right.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So, yeah, if you're new to it, alana has this advice
column on the website.
It's called talk hr Me.
We do it every couple of weeksand we take the questions from
that and she just does like anadvice column.
So we're going to this week'sstraight in this show, so all
right.
The first question that we'regoing to ask here is I just
found out one of our executivesis using Gen AI to draft
(01:59):
employee evaluations and it'snot part of any sanctioned pilot
.
He says it's saving time, butI'm concerned about bias,
confidentiality and tone.
Am I overreacting orunderestimating the risk?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
No, I think you're perfectly reacting.
My CISO, my chief securityofficer, would be all over it
here because there's a couple ofconsiderations right, like
ChatGPT is not secure to beentering confidential company
information.
So there's sort of two thingsto keep in mind here.
I would certainly have thiswriter check with their security
team about any internalprotocols necessary or policy
(02:36):
around the use of Gen AI.
Some companies have arequirement that only specific
instances are used or there'slike specific guidelines for how
to use chat GPT, and soobviously the risk is entering
company information for one andfor two to the point of the
question not filtering throughfor bias and for tone and the
delivery of information.
So definitely check with yoursecurity team and make sure
(02:58):
there are clear protocols on howto use Gen AI for your leaders.
But on the other hand, ifsanctioned and if allowed, using
Gen AI to support withperformance reviews is a good
idea.
I do it.
I write the foundation of whatI'm looking to do and sort of
the bullet points and then useit to brainstorm or flesh out a
thought if I'm having trouble,or I'll upload something, like
we have, you know, at my company.
We have a specific Geminiinstance for my company so I can
(03:21):
upload something securely andask for some feedback.
So it definitely should be usedfor like a time saver and for
organizing thoughts and forbrainstorming.
But a manager who is just copyand pasting a Gen AI like review
into the form that's not goingto make your team member feel
good and it's going to make themfeel like it's not important
(03:41):
and that you didn't give a crapabout filling it out.
So I don't recommend it forthat reason.
But it's about the right use,referencing it, using it for
brainstorming, but definitelynot just like setting it and
forgetting it and copy pastingand dashes and all into the form
.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So, yeah, yeah, I would say like it can provide
inspiration for you, but it'sterrible with what nuanced
context.
Empathy, emotional intelligence, which is all the things.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
that a performance, it's terrible.
With what Nuance?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
context, empathy, emotional intelligence, which is
all the things that aperformance review should be
built on.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, you know you don't want
to use it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's like one of the things it does.
Now you've probably noticedthis too, is it's like he uses
all these like it's not this,it's that sentences and I'm like
this would be terrible in aperformance review.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, yeah, and their team members definitely know
it's going to be really obvious.
So, yeah, I know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
No, definitely not overreacting on that one.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
The appropriate amount ofconcern, I think.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So the next one is and obviously you know where we
are at this moment in time a lotof it is going to be a lot of
AI questions and please do keepsending them because we love
them.
Yeah, we do, but we're rollingout Gen AI access org wide and
HR is expected to leadenablement, but the C-suite
won't touch it.
I'm caught between pushingchange and protecting
(05:01):
credibility.
How do I confront performativeinnovation from the top?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I first have to say that I want to have a wine with
this writer because I get it.
I get it.
Let's talk about it.
Okay, I would, in this case,book some time with the person
who is actually making this askof you I'm assuming somebody on
the executive team and getreally clear with them about the
goal of what they're trying toachieve and have a partner in
(05:26):
goal setting and clearexpectations for the use of AI
across the company.
I mean, if it were me like mykind of sassy answer is I'd be
making this everybody else'sproblem.
I would be saying, hey, we'reall in this together, but my
real answer is get really clearon what you're actually being
asked to do and whether thejuice is actually worth the
squeeze.
Is it important?
(05:46):
What are we trying to achieveand how can I actually help?
Because a use of sort of likeeverybody use AI with a you
can't see me but a general handwave, you know, is not enough.
So I would get some realpartnership with the person
who's made the ask of you andthen I think what I would also
do is have a one-on-ones withother members of the executive
team and ask them, haveexploratory conversations about
(06:07):
their pain points and in whatways generative AI can support,
you know, more team productivityand address the manual labor
issues that they have on theirteam.
So make it an attractive offerto them, make it something that
they can be excited about, makeit a partnership, but definitely
don't attempt to just go do itin the face of resistance and
without clarity and then liketry to make it happen.
(06:28):
So it really is a group effort.
So I think that's where I'dstart.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, I mean we've seen this come up a little bit
recently, right Like the idea ofinnovation theater.
It's like I think what we'vegot to get with leaders here is
like what is your real fear ormisalignment that's?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
attached to this right, so like are you afraid of
looking foolish?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
and exposing like some kind of technical gap and
then maybe losing respect.
Is that your headache?
Because like we all are dealingwith this you know like welcome
to the party and that sort ofvulnerability and experiencing
that might actually bringeveryone closer to you and make
them respect you even more thefact that they watched you go
through that.
You know what I mean, so thatcould be, something that you
(07:14):
have to overcome within thatconversation and I think also
there's like this belief withinsome leadership circles that
it's like ai is really more forthe doers, it's not for the
deciders and it's like a goodtool for task work, but strategy
, you know, it's not there and Ithink that what we're seeing
now, especially with some ofthese new tools.
I've seen a few lately that Iwas like whoa yeah, you know, I
(07:38):
think we're seeing that it isbecoming a strategic tool yeah,
and so like, yeah, how does yourbehavior change around that
then?
Like, and how do you use it to?
To just become better at yourjob like everybody else?
Right, because?
Like there will be a day wheremaybe the CEO does get
outsourced to AI.
We never know.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
God, we'll see, we'll see.
Well, yeah, that's a reallyinteresting perspective too,
because I think I wasapproaching the question and
maybe even with the assumptionthat there's like a lack of
interest or resistance in someway.
But you uncovered somethingreally interesting, I think that
is it around a fear of a lackof knowledge of how to use the
tools and if that's the case,what kind of enablement can we
do across the organization andsupport not just the executive
(08:16):
team but everybody with like howto use this technology?
So that was a really good callout, I think.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, it comes from like I've seen some research
recently, especially inparticular with HR leaders, that
they feel sort of likeunqualified to use it, like not
technically savvy enough, and II think like there's so many
different ways to experimentwith it that you don't really
have to be and then, once youstart to sort of like open the
door and create a certain levelof comfort for yourself.
You can take it so manydifferent places, and I think
(08:44):
particularly for like CHROs.
Think about like the culturedrag of like.
Everybody else is forced to useit, but you don't you know like
you're not like embodying anyof this stuff that you want.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Totally, Totally, yeah.
And the advice that I alwaysgive to my team is that like
this is the tools that are goingto help us, you know, be
successful in the future andmaintain a competitive skill set
.
Like if I didn't also do it thenI wouldn't be practicing what I
preach.
And so you know, what'sinteresting is that I, at the
beginning of this year, gave anH1 challenge to my team to find
two use cases.
I mentioned we use Gemini at mycompany for how Gemini can ease
(09:18):
their workload or how they canuse it in their roles, and so
and they had to present back tothe rest of the team a couple
months ago and I made very clearthat it's not about I'm not a
super technical person.
I'm not expecting you to beable to code or be an engineer.
I'm asking you to explore andsee how AI can support you in
your role.
Specifically giving twoexamples and like, starting slow
, I think, really helps sort ofplant the seed.
(09:39):
Once you start seeing and youget more experienced with it,
you're like, oh, and I can dothis and I can do this, and so
yeah, you start learning,covering ways to use it you
never imagined.
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
But the thing I've been hearing lately is like I've
been hearing this term AI,fluent culture.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Like and.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I'm like that's nice to say yeah.
But like the thing is is, likeI think, for most companies
everybody's in this like verydifferent place with it.
And the cool thing is like aleader is why you should feel
like invited to use it and tolead with it.
Is that like there's someonewithin the organization that is
in the same level of using?
(10:16):
You know what I mean?
Like they're just starting out,or they're like they figured a
few things out but they haven'tquite figured out how to apply
it, or whatever you know.
Right, so I think it's a goodtime to like start using it and
thinking about how you're goingto like essentially steward
meaningful adoption.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, exactly.
And what will that mean?
What will that mean for yourorganization and your team?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah All right, so
the third one we have here iswe're automating parts of our HR
ops function and my mostdependable coordinator just
asked is my job safe?
I care about my team, but Ialso know that more change is
coming.
How do I balance honesty withreassurance?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
more change is coming .
How do I balance honesty withreassurance?
Speaking of generative AI, Imean, what a doozy.
You know and I really feel you.
I'm glad this person asked thisquestion because I'm sure
they're hardly the only personthinking of it and I think like,
foundationally, my answer tothis question is, when faced
with queries like this from yourteam, is to sort of go
transparently through yourknowns and unknowns.
Right, there is a lot that we doknow about what's important to
(11:20):
the business, what our goals arefor the year, what our
headcount will look like, youknow, over the next couple
months, but there's things thatwe don't know about how fast
technology will advance and whatchatbots will look like six
months from now and what thatwill mean for the business.
Right, and so I have.
I guess maybe I'm unique inthis perspective and let's
debate if you'd like to, but Ihave.
Contrary to our last sort ofquestion, where I believe in the
(11:42):
potential of AI, I believe thatit can leverage and automate
certain parts of work.
I'm not yet at the state whereI think it will be replacing
jobs as quickly and justcompletely replacing humans,
like at the rate that everybodyseems to think.
I know we've seen layoffs.
Recently there was a big I thinkit was a Microsoft layoff of a
big HR team, 9,000 people that'stons right, and those are big
enterprise businesses that havehuge amounts of roles and maybe
(12:05):
some of those roles will remainredundant.
But there's also a small partof me that's like let me see
their careers page in like sixto 12 months.
I think it's not proven yetthat it can completely replace
the role of a human, especiallyon small teams.
But I would frame the responseto this person like here's our
knowns and unknowns.
We don't know what technologywill look like Right now.
(12:25):
You have a spot here and let'smake the most of that spot by
learning to use the technologyand leveraging it to be really
awesome at your job.
So leaning into it and teachingpeople.
To our last question how toadopt it, how to get really
awesome at what you do, how tobecome more data driven as your
HR ops coordinator, how topresent back to the executive
team, to be someone who canreally leverage and be on the
(12:46):
forefront of innovating withtech and generative AI I think
is actually probably the bestway to keep your job safe, all
of our jobs safe.
But yeah, those are my startingthoughts.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, I agree, I think like we are seeing it.
They always say like we areseeing it.
They always say like, oh, it'snot AI that's going to take your
job, it's a human with AI.
I think that that's very much asentiment of the moment, which
is fine.
Yeah, I don't think that thatis the long-term reality.
Five years from now, I think anAI will take your job.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Okay, okay, so you think so.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Okay, but at the same , what we are seeing is there's
an over indulgence with it.
Right, yeah, from leadership.
So they want it to do all thesethings?
yeah, but they're creating likethe recipe for boomerang
employees because, like we saw,with clarna, we've seen it with
some, some other companies, highprofile cases where yeah you
end up having to bring peopleback because it doesn't quite do
everything, or you find outthat actually, like the human qa
step, right, quality assurancestep is really, really important
(13:42):
, yeah, and so, like I think,getting back to sort of like the
the key question here, you knowyou got to be honest, without
being harsh, right, you can'tguarantee anything like we just
have to be that's real aboutthis moment and actually like
that.
When you see like leaderspretending like automation's not
changing things, it's like whatare you doing, right?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
right it should be changing some things.
If it's not, then yeah, well,like if you're acting like it's
not.
Right sure.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I'd actually be more nervous about that.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That's right, that's right, yeah, but like I think
you could say to the person likeokay, we're automating some of
the more repetitive work, yes,but like we do want to free you
up to do other things and I wantto work with you to identify
what those things are.
I think one of the problemsthat we're having and why so
many people get nervous, is theyhear leaders say things like
(14:35):
it's going to free humans up todo higher order tasks, and then
someone inevitably goes well,what is that?
What are those tasks?
and they don't have an answeryou're an answer and I'm like
well it's time to start havingan answer, because people, when
you don't have an answer, andit's like what you're going to
expect them to do.
People get really panicky, yeahand I understand that, like
from a skills and roledevelopment perspective.
(14:57):
We kind of don't know.
But we've got to start givingpeople some sort of direction of
travel, like here's what youshould be learning.
I don't know where it's going togo, but I know that this will
be relevant experience to whereit does Like we've got to at
least be able to map that.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I think it creates a lot of nervous or tension when
we can't answer that questionno-transcript people.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And for the record not to sound like doomsday,
anyone on the team can losetheir job for like any number of
reasons over the next couple ofyears.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So it's not just AI, it's not just.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
AI.
So I always try to say, likethis is none of our last jobs,
right?
Like so, let's build arelationship to work that is as
healthy as can be and prepareourselves for what we're
interested in and, to your point, like march in the direction of
what skills will be strategicand demand and interest to you
over time.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I always come back to like they're gonna need smart
people who have a vision, orlike an idea of what to do with
things like.
So, if you find yourself inthese positions, like, start
thinking about well, what can Ido differently?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
what can I?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
how can I, yes, try this or like experiment and just
keep learning and keep?
Yeah, I was talking to somebodyrecently who said the number
one thing is shifting from likewhat I do to what I become.
You know, like okay, what, howmuch can I learn and absorb is
essentially going to be one ofthe biggest skills of the future
(16:42):
, and I think that's why I kindof say, like give people the
agency, like tell them, I wantto shape this with you, I don't
want to dictate it to you.
Yeah, you come to me, you tellme like, oh, I'm actually
falling into this thing, andit's really interesting and I
want to keep going you know,like we can work together to
figure out how you get there,but that's sort of the direction
.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Totally, and I've said before, people have to be
in the driver's seat of theirown development and of their own
career journey.
And, yeah, I think you knowdefinitely having this person
lean into more of developingthat technical skillset and
learning to leverage technologyand have it you know, obviously
(17:24):
working in media, this isn'teven the first thing I've seen,
just wipe out jobs sure, right,right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
No, that's a good point, it's like it kind of
gives you a perspective of likeI remember like things will
shift but at the end of the day,like this thing that we do is
not actually going anywhere.
It it's not like people aregoing to put down their phones
and stop reading and stopwatching things and stop
listening to podcasts totally soat the end of the day, like how
do I now use this thing toshape those things that I always
(17:55):
used to?
I mean, it used to be much morelabor intensive.
Right, if we can minimize thelabor but create more output?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
like, let's just figure out how to do that, you
know yeah, totally not to get usoff track, because this is a
workplace in hr podcast, but didyou see the release of the Y
Combinator?
Like what kind of submissionsthey're looking for for their
next class?
Some of these were crazy.
It was like someone build an AItool, please and pitch it to us
that can build new seasons ofretired TV shows, like new
(18:21):
seasons of Friends, using AI.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I'm like nobody wants that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, no, no.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nobody wants that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
This is like the AI music thing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Oh my God, the selling of the no, the signing
of the HR artist.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
We're like boo and you're like what?
Why Like some of this music isabsolutely dreadful.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Of course, of course it's dreadful.
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I love that to keep us sidetracked, but recently I
saw a leaked.
They had the playlist gatewhere all these billionaires'
playlists were leaked, and oneof the guys was listening to
some AI-generated song and helistened to it 60 times in a row
on his playlist.
I'm like what, what?
What kind of a deep psychosisdo you have to be?
(19:05):
I couldn't listen to any song60 times in a row have something
going on.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
that's funny, oh man all right back to the question
yeah, back to questions.
Back to questions why is itethical that if two people have
the same job, the same job title, they can have dramatically
different salaries?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Why is it ethical?
Well, there are a lot offactors that go into
compensation, and I think it'sprobably more helpful for this
person to think of compensationfor a particular role or for a
particular team, as in bands, asopposed to like one static
figure that doesn't change andeverybody gets the same number.
But there's a lot of reasonswhy someone people in the same
position might be paid adifferent place in the comp band
(19:50):
, and it can be years ofinternal experience, as in they
were just promoted into thisrole.
You will likely be at thebottom of the band if you were
just promoted into a new roleExternal experience, what people
were doing before they got here.
Many companies pay based onregion, even if remote companies
or like national locations.
Someone in New York makes moremoney than somebody in Idaho,
for example, because of the costof living, and so those are
(20:13):
some of the reasons.
But a comp band can vary fromabout like 30 to 60 percent on
the high to low range, and so ifyou do have questions about
your compensation, I definitelysuggest that you involve your
manager in asking why things are, why you are placed where you
are.
But those are some reasons onwhy that might be the case.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I mean you know years of like, you know those
conversations, like well, howmuch do you make?
Yeah, sure, sure, yeah.
But like, the things I alwayscome back to is like all right,
does my pay accurately reflectthe value that I add?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
and do.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I feel like that's applied correctly yeah if so,
it's tough to question that,right?
I'd say, like is performancemeasured fairly, transparently,
consistently, all thosequestions like you gotta look at
that and if you have feedbackon that, next time they send out
the survey, be honest.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, sure, sure yeah , and you know also like
obviously have some hand in myown compensation program at my
own company, and it's notuncommon to see one role that
has like a 40k band ofdifferential right.
And some people, I think, makethe mistake of thinking like,
well, I was newly promoted, Ishould be at the top of the band
for the new position, andthat's just.
(21:30):
That's just not how that works,right?
And if you feel that you, oryou suspect you, might be paid
(21:50):
unfairly, I would sort of dosome reflection on those items
that I just said.
Do a little bit of marketresearch, do a little bit of
research about you know whatsimilar companies are paying for
a similar position and then askthe question.
It doesn't hurt to raise yourhand to ask.
I'll say that it hurts to raiseyour hand and make an
accusation.
But I would start with theexploratory question about why
you make what you do and why youare in the band.
(22:11):
And also one last point on thisyou want room to grow within
the band, like year over year.
So if you're at the top of acompensation band, you're
probably due for a promotion ordue for a next role, but you're
not promoted at the end of everyyear, right, but, like in my
company, we give merit increasesat the end of every year, right
, but, like in my company, wegive merit merit increases at
the end of each year, and sothere's.
So there has to be, like,latitude to grow and space to
grow.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So just those are a couple points to think of, a
couple points to think throughand in that too, I would add,
just like keep in mind thatthese systems get audited and
corrected over time yeah just,you know, like it's not on a
one-off basis, so like it maytake a year, but within that
year they may come back to itand go.
Actually we've got somediscrepancies here.
(22:51):
We've got to like close thesegaps or whatever right just say
you know, raise it, but don'tobsess about it, because at the
end of the day, you've got to doit in the right way and they're
not going to change anything onanybody's schedule but their
own.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That is true, that is true because that's just a
career advice yeah, sure, makeyour case and then the company
will tell you they'll let youknow.
Yeah, they'll let you know,yeah, this is true all right.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Last question we have for today is one of my direct
reports is in recovery.
He brings a six pack ofnon-alcoholic beer to work each
day.
We work in manufacturing, whichwas I was like I'm picturing
this in the break room fridge ofan office, so I'm brings a six
pack of non-alcoholic beer towork each day we work in
manufacturing, which was I waslike I'm picturing this in the
break room fridge of an office,so I'm glad that they clarified
that.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It says.
I don't have any problem withthis myself, but some other
employees have made commentsabout him just grabbing a beer
in the middle of the day.
One of the women on the teamhas complained to me that he
smells of beer.
I know that there isn't anyalcohol content in these beers,
but he has told me that theysupport his recovery.
But I don't want this continueddistraction.
(23:57):
What should I do?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, this is quirky, this is different.
yeah, yeah this is quirky.
What I think you should do iscontinue to let him have the
non-alcoholic beer.
And there's a couple reasonsFor one addiction is a
disability that's covered underthe ADA, and so the employer is
expected to make a reasonableaccommodation for somebody under
the ADA with a qualifieddisability for non-alcoholic
(24:24):
beer.
And he goes to file a claim andyou have to go to court
probably very small, but thatsaid, I think it's the right
thing to do.
I mean, it's non-alcoholic beer.
If it was alcoholic beer, thatwould be a whole different
answer to my question.
But I think what I would do ismake sure, if the team is
chattering about it, I wouldmake sure that they know that
it's non-alcoholic beer.
Like I would correct theassumption that he's like
(24:45):
getting drunk and hanging out onthe job.
I think that's yourresponsibility to do that.
You shouldn't be giving anyinformation about this person's
recovery.
They can share it if they wantto, but if not I would shut down
the conversation about thenon-alcoholic beer.
And you know what Maybe I'mmaking this?
The person who complains aboutthe smell the smell of beer can
be kind of gnarly Like.
I don't love the smell of beer.
I got a simple solution for you.
(25:07):
One of my companies I worked atdid this.
It was great Mouthwash littledisposable plastic cups in the
bathroom for everybody.
Everybody can have a littlerefreshment at lunch and freshen
up when they need to.
So I would shut down thecommentary and I would let them
have their non-alcoholic beer,and I would encourage them to
bring a non-alcoholic beverageof their choice to work, should
it provide them comfort okay one.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I love the mouthwash idea because I think it's
interesting.
What would be interesting to me?
To me, the track is like do wesee less dental claims?
That would be interesting.
I don't know, maybe that would.
I'd just be like I just want totrack that and see.
Yeah, but I think you're right,like for me.
Okay, he hasn't violated anypolicies, right, you know?
(25:52):
The key is to address like thedistraction.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah.
Not their behavior or not makeit about him Totally, totally
yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I don't think you can question someone's recovery
methods.
I mean, maybe if you're also inrecovery.
Right, sure, I maybe, if you'realso in recovery, but I think
you're probably going to be moreempathetic if that is your
experience.
So like it's kind of likesetting some clear boundaries
here about, like, what you needto observe about your colleagues
and what you don't, quitefrankly, Like there's certain
things.
They're none of your business.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Totally.
Sometimes people just gottaremind you of business, I mean
you know what I'm saying, unlessthey are concerned that this
person is drinking on the job,in which case you need to like
address that.
That's actually not the case,because then that can erode
trust and cause confusion.
So definitely nip that in thebud.
But yeah, just because anemployee has questions about
another employee doesn't meanthat they're entitled to like a
(26:41):
lot of answers.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, and I love that you brought up the ADA thing,
because you got to think like isthat a reasonable non-alcoholic
beer on the daily, which seemslike probably an expensive habit
then I think you shouldaccommodate it.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think you should just let it be.
I mean, I used to work with aguy who drank like four Red
Bulls a day and I think it'scrazy.
I mean, yeah, he would like hehad jitters.
He made me nervous.
Look at that.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
And he would sweat a lot.
I was like, okay, like you'retrying to say something, but I'm
like sure you know what.
I don't know what he's goingthrough I don't know like how
disengaged he might be if we cutoff his caffeine intake well, I
hope he is okay today.
Yeah, I hope that he foundmaybe like acupuncture something
yoga.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I hope he found yoga yeah well these were some good
questions.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
You gotta do this more often.
I like this format this was fun.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Thank you me too.
Thank you for sending us yourhr workplace questions.
We really loved answering them,so do it again.
Yeah, keep them coming, we havean anonymous form that you can
just submit a question.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
you don't have to put in any personal details or
anything like that, just put,put in the question, hit submit
and yeah, we'll tackle them inthe column or maybe here on the
show.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But, alana, thanks for giving us some of your
expertise today.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And if you're looking for the form, you can find it
on a link to it.
On all the Talk HR to Mecolumns that you see on the
website, it's like right therein the first couple of
paragraphs, and we'll also put alink in the episode show notes.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Cool, all right, until next time everybody have a
non-alcoholic beer you.
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