Equipping Teams to Use AI Without Losing Purpose

Most people don't burn out because they're working too hard—they burn out because they’re performing at a pace they were never built to sustain, chasing goals that don’t align with who they are. Matt Granados joins David Rice to unpack why the language we use around productivity—high performance, hustle, passion—is misleading at best, and actively harmful at worst.

They get into the mechanics of optimal performance, the difference between consuming and contributing, and why fulfillment requires more than vision boards and vague inspiration. If you're leading people in an age of AI, distraction, and burnout, this conversation offers a clear path forward—one rooted in structure, intention, and personal agency.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We talk about optimal performance being different
from high performance, but westill get sucked into that sort
of all or nothing mentality thatleads to burnout.
What do you think the mostimportant factor is in flipping
that dynamic?

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah.
Number one is you don't solvefor burnout, you avoid it.
High performance, high output.
Unsustainable pace compared toothers.
Optimal performance high outputat a sustainable pace compared
to one's own abilities.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
You measure each week across four vital science.
Can you walk us through whatthose are and why each matters?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Internal, how are you growing your mind?
Relational, how are you growingthe connections in your life?
Physical, how are you growingthe body that you have?
And then, professionally, howare you growing the contribution
to society?
How?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
should HR leaders and managers be leveraging AI to
sort of boost meaningfulpurpose-driven work?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's how we use it.
Is it a tool or is it an idol?

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Welcome back to the People Managing People podcast,
the show that gets into themessy, human side of work, the
technology that influences itand the bold ideas that are
going to shape the peoplepractices of tomorrow.
I'm your host, David Rice.
Today's guest is someone who'snot here to hand out fluffy
motivation or recycled TED Talkadvice.
Matt Granados is the founder ofLifePulse and he's here to

(01:23):
challenge everything you thinkyou know about productivity,
fulfillment and the purpose ofwork itself.
In this conversation, we'regoing to dig into why you can't
accidentally stumble into afulfilling life, why high
performance is actually a trapand why most workplace burnout
has less to do with workload andeverything to do with misplaced
identity and everything to dowith misplaced identity.

(01:45):
Matt breaks down how confusingpassion with purpose has
derailed entire careers, why HRneeds to stop babysitting and
start equipping, and whatoptimal performance really looks
like in the age of AI.
And, yes, we're also gonna talkabout whether or not anyone's
actually been lit before theystart throwing around the term
burnout.
This is a big one Honest,practical, refreshingly

(02:06):
unfiltered.
I really enjoyed thisconversation, so let's just get
right into it.
All right?
So, Matt, welcome.
Appreciate it, Dave.
Thanks for having me on.
Yeah, absolutely Wait, you'rein Atlanta, right.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I was in Atlanta for a while.
I'm in St Louis now.
So grew up in Philly, moved toAtlanta, then St Louis I always
joke Philly and the Northeastthey don't like you and they
tell you they don't like you.
And then moved to the Southeastwhere they don't like you but
they tell you they do like you.
And then I finally came to theMidwest where they tend to just
like people, so middle of thecountry, easier to travel.
Came here because of mydaughter's medical condition but

(02:41):
absolutely love St Louis whereI get to live.
Wish the travel was a littleeasier, the airport was a little
better, but other than that thepeople are great.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Oh, that's cool, though I like that you got
around the country a little bit,saw all the different parts of
it, right?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, absolutely Very different.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, the old melting pot.
So we're going to be talkingabout productivity a bit today
and I want to get right into it,you know, kind of like how we
change how we think about it alittle bit, because I think that
that's something that's goingto have to happen, especially as
I know, like we talk about AIall the time and people are
starting to think aboutproductivity in different ways,
because it does change how youdo things.

(03:18):
But I want to start with morelike a philosophical question,
if you'll indulge me.
So why is intentionality socentral to even the concept of
fulfillment, right, and whycan't someone accidentally
become fulfilled?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I guess I've never met anybody who's experienced
fulfillment without intention.
I kind of joke.
People can win the lottery,they can get lucky in how
they're born, where they're born, but when it comes to
experiencing fulfillment,intentionality is what I call,
is the catalyst of it.
Right Like you cannot gowithout it, and I describe it as
if you were taking a road trip.

(03:55):
That's kind of what life is,and if you have intention and
structure, you'll get where youdesire to go.
So the intention is the vehicle, the structure is the route.
But if you have a vehicle withno route, you've wasted energy.
If you have a route without avehicle, it's a wasted
opportunity.
So you need intention, you alsoneed structure, and if you put
intention with structureproperly which is what our
entire business is around youwill get the desired outcome,

(04:18):
which, as a human, isfulfillment.
Now we kind of mask it inthings like well, I need
work-life balance.
No, you don't.
People who love what they dodon't ask for work-life balance.
People who hate what they doask for work-life balance.
Now there's an element ofbalancing life.
Yeah, that's just the generalnature of what fulfillment comes
from.
But you cannot do it withoutintention, because with

(04:38):
intention, it is a recognitionof where I am, a recognition of
where I need to go and theactions that need to happen in
order to get there, and it'smaking the choice to take those
actions.
You cannot become fulfilledaccidentally, and that's the
reason why intention is thecatalyst for fulfillment.
What our system does is ittakes intention, it combines it

(04:58):
with structure so that, by usingthe structure, you're
reengaging the intention.
Intention, and we call thatperpetual development, which
leads to productivity.
The by-product of fixing theroot cause is the results that
we want.
So long answer to your simplequestion, but that is the reason
why I truly feel you will neverexperience fulfillment
accidentally and you needintention in order to experience

(05:20):
it.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I love that, because we talk a lot about like
purpose-driven work cultures andhelping people identify purpose
right, and it's like it soundslike everybody's got an idea of
what their purpose is, but Ithink a lot of people just like
don't really know when they getstarted.
It's like you need systems inplace that will not only help
them do that, but then likeidentify what are the sort of

(05:43):
like avenues to get there, Causethere's, you know, kind of a
grotesque old saying but there'smore than one way to skin a cat
Right.
So, yeah, I mean, I think that'sone of the things that,
especially for youngerprofessionals, you've got to
learn the hard way.
You just got to go through thatand it's an interesting time
for that for sure.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, that's without a doubt.
And when it comes to purpose, Ithink it's for that for sure.
Yeah, that's without a doubt.
And when it comes to purpose, Ithink it's not even that it's
hard to understand.
Purpose is, no one knows reallywhere to start, and because of
that we confuse purpose andpassion.
And when you confuse purpose andpassion, bad things happen.
For example, if I followed mypassions, I'd be a Ninja Turtle
at this age, right, Like that'swhat I wanted to be back then

(06:21):
and that wasn't really what mypurpose was, but I was
passionate about it.
And then I won't even go intowhat would happen in my teenage
years if I just followed mypassion on a regular basis.
And now, even as an adult,right, there's things that I, if
I was to fall trapped to mypassions, I would be making
major mistakes, whether it's inbusiness, in relationships,
whatever part it is.
But it comes to understandingwhat do these two words mean and

(06:42):
how the world has manipulatedthem and used them against us.
So if you were to Google theword passion, don't scroll too
far down You're going to getvery bright, very attractive
images, pretty intense images,and that's what I said.
Then you scroll down, you'regoing to get in trouble for what
you're searching.
If you were to look up purpose,you're going to find boring

(07:02):
clip art Things, like a guywho's kind of like weirdly
shaped, looking down a path,like that's your purpose.
But if you were to look at thedefinition of the two and this
is where it gets serious thepurpose, the definition of
purpose, is the reason for whichsomething exists.
The definition of passion isstrong, uncontrollable emotions.
My question to you is which onewould you rather follow?

(07:23):
You'd obviously rather followthe reason for which you exist.
Now we get into an entireexistential conversation on that
.
Happy to go down that rabbithole with anybody, because I
think there is an actual answerand I think there is a true
answer to that question.
But in order to understand yourpurpose whether we agree on the
foundation of it, we all have torealize there's a reason we
exist.
The question is, what is thatreason?

(07:45):
And I found the best way to dothat is to break it down into
three categories that make uphow we live out that purpose.
And it's understanding youridentity, your calling and your
assignment.
And where we make a mistake iswe confuse those three, where we
think our assignment is ouridentity and, because of that,
when our assignment changes forexample with me, if I have

(08:06):
people who retire, they go to adifferent job or a different
role they think their entireidentity is off-basis or their
entire purpose is lost becausemy assignment has changed.
And I've come to find ourassignment changes all the time.
My assignment changed when Igot married.
It changed when I had a kid.
It changed when I had a secondkid.
It changed when I found outabout my daughter's health
condition.
It changed when I had abusiness.

(08:27):
It changed when I didn't have abusiness.
Right, our assignments changeall the time, but we need to
understand the purpose in whichwe exist versus the
uncontrollable fleeting emotions, that is, passions.
Do not try to seek yourpassions.
Instead, what I say is look atyour purpose as an umbrella and
that umbrella is going to beover your head and that umbrella
is going to protect you fromthe elements, like it does out

(08:47):
in the weather of life.
And the most fulfilled people Iknow understand their purpose.
They take the time to find it,which it's not in the future,
it's in the past, which, again,I can explain that later and
they go and they walk on theproper path to the right point
at the right pace, and they'refinding the passions, but
they're bringing them in properalignment with their purpose.

(09:07):
And once you do that, you canwalk through life and it's kind
of like the hardships of lifefalls off your shoulders as if
you had rain and an umbrellaprotecting you from the elements
.
Now, that's how it works.
The question is, how do you dothis at scale?
As an HR professional, that'swhat we come in and teach and
those are the systems that we'vedeveloped through LifePulse to
allow you to do just that.

(09:28):
But the first thing to realizeyou never find your purpose by
looking into the future.
That's your desires, that'syour wants, that's your passion.
You find your purpose byreflecting properly on your past
.
What was it like growing up asa kid?
What was it like in yourteenage years?
Now, for some people, they'relike I don't want to mess with
that stuff.
Well, you don't pick yourpurpose, you discover it.
And those are the exercisesthat we put people through,

(09:50):
because self-discovery is thekey to every single thing we do,
which is why our content, whenwe bring it into companies,
regardless of the industry,regardless of the size, are so
impactful to the people, becauseit's all based on
self-discovery, just like Ithink your purpose needs to.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
You've put it into some really interesting language
here.
I think this is something thata lot of leaders shy away from,
especially when we talk aboutthings like calling.
I think for leaders themselves,they sometimes don't know what
necessarily the calling is,aside from attaining the job
title and keep going.
That's always been sort of thegoal, but what is the calling of

(10:24):
it?
You know, that's more of adeeper question and, like you
alluded to there, some of thiswork can be a little bit
uncomfortable.
You might have to think aboutthings that you don't want to
think about or that you'veforgotten about.
And yeah, I just find that thelanguage that you've put around
this very interesting, becauseit is, like you said,
self-discovery work and there'sa lot of like counterproductive
advice out there.

(10:44):
I mean, you'll hear people sayfollow your passion.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, and it's a disaster.
Right, maybe be passionateabout what you do.
I could see that of like.
Be emotionally invested in theactions you take, and we have a
whole in our book Motivate theUnmotivated of what is it that
takes someone to be amotivational all-star?
And one of it is proof inliving and actually they live
out what they say.
So I get that concept if youwanted to try to bend it to make

(11:08):
sense.
But this is the issue is, wordshave meanings and leaders seem
to have forgotten that.
And because we've been told wecan kind of change definitions
of words, that is a disaster inall of society, let alone in the
workplace.
So, for example, your identityI define that as who you are.
Your calling is how you'regoing to do it and your
assignment is what you'recurrently doing.

(11:29):
So what we do is we take thesebig, hard-to-understand concepts
but we break them down intosimple thought process that
allows individuals to go throughit themselves and not have the
leader have to walk them througheverything.
I think that's when it gets alittle crazy.
I'm like hey, david, let metell you what your calling is.
You don't need my opinion onwhat your calling is.
You need me to guide youthrough it, but, as an HR

(11:50):
professional, a lot of them thatwe work with are like man, I'd
love to do that, but I justdon't have the time to sit down
with everybody.
And that's why we created theprograms we created is because
you don't have to sit down witheverybody.
You give them the assignment,they go, do some work, not all
the work, and they come backwith a closer step towards truth
.
And that's what we want.
We want progress towardsreality and towards truth.

(12:10):
We don't need everyone to be atthe perfect truth, because that
would be impossible to geteveryone at in an organization,
but at least moving closertowards it.
And when self-realizationstarts to become enjoyable,
people will continue down thatpath.
We just haven't had a lot ofleaders who are able to walk
them down that path becausethey're distracted by other
things, and if everyone was ableto do it, honestly, I wouldn't
have a company.

(12:31):
So that's the hole that we fillis we help people become the
most optimal version ofthemselves so that, as a leader,
you can stop babysitting andactually manage the way we're
supposed to.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Now the system that you've created.
You measure each week acrossfour vital signs of productivity
, productivity being thebyproduct of all this.
Can you walk us through whatthose are and why each matters?

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, so the four vital signs of fulfillment is
what we call it, but it'sinternal, physical, relational
and professional, and they're inthat order, based on the needs
of humans.
So internal, how are yougrowing your mind, your soul,
your spirit?
Right, me, as a Christian, itgoes from a spiritual side, but
it doesn't necessarily matterwhere your belief system is.
It's, again, the purpose forwhich we exist.

(13:13):
It's how we're built as humans.
So, internal, how are yougrowing your mind?
Relational, how are you growingthe connections in your life?
Physical, how are you growingthe body that you have?
We only have one of these.
We got to take care of it to beable to do the things we need
to do.
And then, professionally, howare you growing the contribution
to society?
Now I want to sit on that wordfor a second, because the

(13:33):
world's again told us they'vetaken words, they've flipped
them on us, just like followyour passion.
They tell us that our job is toconsume.
Our job is not to consume.
Our job as humans is tocontribute.
But the world has shifted itand that's why we're like man,
these younger generations.
We always hear that everysingle generation is upset with
the younger generation, and whathappens is it's that reality

(13:56):
that our job is not to consume,it's to contribute.
So as we focus on those fourvital signs, I have found that
the goal is not to necessarilybalance them in a present tense,
but is to continue to bebalancing them right, in the
sense that we are activelytrying to balance these four
vital signs.
The way we do this is we dojust a quick pulse check hey,

(14:19):
how did you do last week?
In these four vital signs wewrite it on a scale of zero to
10.
It's a completely subjectivemeasure.
It doesn't matter what the trueanswer is.
It's really where you feel youare at that moment.
Then we ask yourself what areyou going to do next week or
this current upcoming week tomove the needle forward in that
area?
Our goal is not to get people tomake these huge jumps in every

(14:39):
single area.
It's to make small, consistentsteps every single week, 52
weeks a year and all of a suddenyou are going to see drastic
change in all areas of your life.
But internal, physical,relational, professional.
You take a minute to just makesure we're at least paying
attention to those four vitalsigns.
You're going to get where youneed to go.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know it's interesting that you talk in
there about kind of confusingconsumption and contribution,
and earlier you had mentionedkind of confusing identity and
assignment, and you know howmuch of this do you think is
cultural.
Is this sort of maybe moreprevalent in Western society in
general, or is this somethingthat we've done within our

(15:18):
business world that has driven alot of this?
What do you think is some ofthe key driving factors behind
this?

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I think the key driving factor, yes, is cultural
, because you go into differentcountries and organizations,
different parts of the world whodon't have the access to things
that we have, the advancementsto things that we have, the
availability of things, theimpulsive I want it now and I
can get it the I would sayalmost the lack of need that we
as a Western society have.

(15:44):
And, yeah, you're going to geta dread, they will laugh at the
fact that we're dealing withsome of this stuff but, all that
being said, the cause we canaddress to culture, but the
impact still needs to be takencare of, the solution still
needs to be offered.
I think that the biggestculprit of this is the
self-growth world.
It is the self-developmentworld, is the grinded out

(16:05):
mentality, is the you do whatyou got to do for you and don't
worry about anyone else.
You get as much as you canwhile you're here.
Yolo, all those things thathave come up through the
generations, I think has led tothe fact that, hey, I need what
I need and disregard what youneed, not realizing the way
humans were made were to be incommunity and to work with each
other, and that is why we sitthere.

(16:27):
So we bring in these quickfixes that I call symptomatic
solutions, meaning they focus onthe problem.
They don't focus on the rootcause.
So, for example, the biggestissue is a lot of companies,
especially in the HR world, andI'm not knocking everybody.
This is going to be a prettycounter cultural approach,
because everything we do kind ofgoes counter to what the
traditional personal developmentworld has done, and I think

(16:50):
that's why it works, becausewhat we've been doing isn't
working.
Symptomatic approach would be ifI broke my arm and I had my
bone sticking out and I come toyou and I say, david, my arm
hurts, I need help with the pain, and you gave me pain meds.
What's going to happen is thepain is going to go away for a
little bit, but eventually, 20,30 minutes in, that bone is
still sticking out.
It still hurts.

(17:10):
So what needs to actuallyhappen is not that you give me
something for the pain, is youneed to take the bone, reset it
and put a cast on it.
Now that's going to hurt alittle bit more than just giving
me the pain meds.
But the beautiful thing is theway we are created is that our
bones, if placed properly, willheal themselves.
I find that our people, ifequipped properly to bridge

(17:32):
those gaps, will heal themselves.
So the biggest mistake that'shappened from a developmental
situation is we feel that we asa company have to bridge these
gaps to every single individualbased on their individual needs.
Because of that, we've enabledpeople versus equipping people,
but we've enabled people toassume the company is going to
give me what I need.
I just have to negotiate harder, I have to stand firm, I have

(17:55):
to not agree with X, y and Z andI'll get what I want.
But the information reallyneeds to be is hey, employees,
we are going to spend resourcesto properly equip you personally
and professionally.
We will be a strong foundationfor you, but it is your job to
bridge the gap back to us.
Why do we do this with everycompany we work with?

(18:16):
Because individuals get alittle caught off guard going
well, that's different.
But they start seeing theresults and that feeling of
fulfillment.
And now, all of a sudden Idon't care whether you have 10
people, 10,000, 100,000 peoplein your organization when you
flip that cultural mindset that,hey, we are going to be a
strong foundation for you asemployees to live the life that
you want, do the things that youwant and there will be

(18:38):
expectations of what needs to bemet.
On top of that, we are going tobe offering a personal
development option for you toensure all of that that you can
choose to use or choose not touse, but the expectation is we
will be the foundation and it isyour job to bridge the gap.
Back to us, that goes againsteverything that's been taught in
culture for the past 20, 30years.

(18:58):
Since we started focusing on it.
It's all been about what can Igive to my people to get them to
want to come to work?
And I have found is how can Ihelp my people solve their
personal problems and theirprofessional problems on their
own so I don't have to do thatwork for them and that allows
them to come do their job.
If you have a decent business,if you're an HR director and
you're taking care of yourpeople effectively and properly,

(19:20):
the job's not the hard part.
Life is harder than the job.
The job should be a vehicle tolive the life you want, and
that's exactly what we startedsolving for companies,
regardless of their issue.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
I love it.
I've long said you know, workto live, don't live to work.
It's great because you'retaking the onus off of leaders,
because I think we've put it onthem, but it's we're putting in
the onus on workplace leaders todo something that they're not
actually equipped to do.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Absolutely, and they can't do.
It's impossible to do it atscale.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
And it's also like not necessarily the role that
you should be playing in thesefolks' lives.
I think that this role that you, the way you're describing, is
much more realistic andsustainable versus trying to be
someone's hero, essentially.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, because you also have the other half of what
HR has to do.
Hr, I find and this is why Ilove HR people Again, I'm biased
towards certain departments atcertain companies I go into
right HR and I get along reallywell because HR gets sucked into
the administrative side of HR alot so they can't do the
developmental side of people.
That's why our system comes andactually helps them do exactly

(20:24):
that, so that they can focus onwhat they need to focus on.
People are being developed ontheir own pace, doing their own
thing, but they come to the HRdepartment to kind of get
confirmation on where to go next.
So it's more of like amentorship than a babysitting
and I always keep saying that weare babysitting our people.
But then what happens is HRseems to have turned into like,
instead of like resources forhumans.

(20:46):
It's like we've just startedseeing humans as resources and
just like we talked about withcontribution versus consumption
is companies have started tocreate this HR department to
consume all they can out oftheir people.
Well, you suck your people dry.
They have nothing left to gofor, just like in the grind it
out mentality of the self-growthworld right now.
If you grind it out.
You know what happens when yougrind something it goes away, it

(21:09):
grinds to nothing.
The concept itself is aterrible, terrible concept.
Now, there's times where wehave to work hard.
We call them expansion cycles.
But there's times where youhave to work hard and we had a
client of ours who introduced usto that concept of hey, it's
going to be tough from this timeto this time, but this client
of ours, who's a very successfulchiropractor out of Atlanta,

(21:31):
georgia, they go on a vacationat the end of that cycle.
They have a clear start andstop date and when that's done
they're back to reality.
But to grind it out all of that, man, it's just.
Hr has been kind of left withtheir hands tied behind their
back and all leaders have.
But it's not that difficult.
We just need a systematicapproach that can be solved by
the individual doing their work.
And if they do their work, thebyproduct is the productivity,

(21:52):
the byproduct is the workloadbeing less, and that's how our
entire company started was.
We got reached out to by allthese large companies and they
would say man, we have an issuewith communication, your system
helps us.
We have an issue with personnel.
Your system helps us.
We have an issue with workload,time management, you name it.
I call them the Amazon top 10.
What are the top 10 personaldevelopment categories that are

(22:13):
talking about now?
Change management, right?
Ai?
How do we manage AI?
Your system helps us and we'dcome in and we would teach the
same system, and the reason whyis what our system does is it
takes people to a fourth levelof performance.
That's not high performance.
Right, that's where everyonethinks is the best place to be.
Is a high performer.
It's not.
I'm so unimpressed with highperformers at this point.

(22:34):
It means nothing, and with theintroduction of AI, a high
performer is going to getsquashed instantly by AI when
they come through.
What we need to focus on isoptimal performers, which is the
key to every single thing wetry to get to when we work with
clients.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's interesting because we talk about optimal
performance being different fromhigh performance.
You know, I think we're movingin a direction of sustainable
outputs being considered thebetter goal, right, but we still
get sucked into that sort ofall or nothing mentality that
leads to burnout Like it'spervasive, it's everywhere, rise
and grind culture, all thatstuff, just like you said.

(23:10):
So what do you think the mostimportant factor is in flipping
that dynamic?

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, number one is you don't solve for burnout, you
avoid it.
You need to not get there,right?
How do you stop something fromburning out?
It's already burnt out, right?
The other thing is people arelike I feel burnout.
I'm like I don't know if you'veever been lit.
Let's make sure you've been litfirst before we start saying

(23:36):
I've been burnt out.
So there's a couple of mindsetshifts that need to change.
The other part that comes ofthat is when we are focusing on
the difference between highperformance and optimal
performance.
We need to define terms.
We've talked about this.
Right Words mean things.
Like I said, there's fourlevels of performance.
Number one is lazy and unaware.
I'm sure all of you who arelistening have somebody like
that.
Number two is high potential,like the high post.
There's a ton of those, butwhat do we do with them?
Well, we're too busy focusingon the next level, which is high

(23:57):
performers.
High performers are great, butthey aren't actually what we
need to go for.
We got to go to level four,which is optimal performance.
So, high performance high outputunsustainable pace compared to
others.
Optimal performance high outputat a sustainable pace compared
to one's own abilities.
Let me explain why.
Ai is going to crush highperformers, right.

(24:19):
This is going to be acontroversial comment, but
that's why we do these thingsright.
If high performance is highoutput, unsustainable, which
means it cannot continue.
And it's compared to others.
When you put a robot in there,high output, sustainable pace,
not compared to any human.
You can't compete with that.
It would be like a calculatorversus a human.

(24:40):
Eventually there's going to bea break.
I don't care how well you cancompute numbers, the calculator
will outlast you on a timeframe.
We joke my daughter.
She's in a wheelchair.
She's got a very rare muscularcondition and we'll go on walks
with the family and my son, whois six, and my daughter, who is
eight.
They get at each other like anybrother and sister would
because he is faster than heruntil we're about a mile into

(25:03):
the walk.
Does that make sense?
And not even a mile?
We'll say half a mile, becauseher wheelchair will go for 24
hours and she stays at two speedat all times.
So, as we're messing with AI, ifyou're still focusing on high
performance, you're going to beleft in the dust.
Optimal performers high output,sustainable pace compared to
one's own abilities.
As an optimal performer, youare going to figure out ways to

(25:26):
leverage AI as a tool and notlook at it as an idol and really
be able to use it, because yourfocus is, like you said, on
sustainability, so you will takethe time to not run the race as
fast as you can, tortoise inthe hair to leverage the tools
that are available to be able toget a greater output at a more
sustainable pace, because youare an optimal performer.

(25:47):
But when you're in thehigh-performance world, when
you're in that grinded outculture, that hustle mentality,
you will get crushed the more AIcomes into this.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
First of all, I want to say I love that you said that
line.
Have you ever been lit?
Because now I get to make atsome point I'm going to get to
make a workplace-related postwith the hashtag get lit.
But I'm curious, you know, likeAI you mentioned there, get lit
.
But I'm curious, you know, likeAI you mentioned there, it's
either a tool or an idol.
How should HR?

Speaker 2 (26:18):
leaders and managers be leveraging AI to sort of
boost meaningful, purpose-drivenwork.
Yeah, I think there's a couplethings In one of our books we
talk about different revolutionsthat have happened, and all
throughout history, revolutionsused to be a once-in-a-lifetime,
if not more, experience, right?
So you're talking 100 years, ifnot more, of a revolution to a
revolution, and as society hasbecome, we'll say, more
innovative, right?
The industrial revolution, thetechnology revolution, they went

(26:40):
from generational to decadesand now they went from decades
to five years and now we're kindof at a six-month period.
There's a new revolution everysingle six months.
With that, what I would say is Iwould focus primarily.
I would focus on how are weleveraging this tool, and what I

(27:00):
mean by that is depending onthe size of the company.
One thing we do with clients iswe suggest them to offer
bonuses and actually incentiveswhatever you want to call that I
know that word scares somepeople but incentives to create
SOPs not standard operatingprocedures, but suggested
operating procedures, right?
So it gives the flexibility,without it being too formalized.
On how I could do my job withAI, how can I leverage AI so

(27:26):
that I, matt, as a singleemployee, can do 10x the work?
Here's how I'm going to do this.
Oh and, by the way, as acompany, I don't think it's too
foolish to say, hey, if you dothis, we will actually pay you
more because you're getting morework done, but you're going to
have to show us a 10x impact onthe output you're able to do.
And just think about thislogically no-transcript balance

(28:19):
by encouraging you to create anduse more AI tools.
Now, the Pennywise Pound Foolishindividual people cut their
nose off to spite their face.
All those individuals were likeah, but then we can fire all of
our people.
You're missing the concept.
Humans are still needed in allof this.
Ai can work and again, it movesfast.
So it could be at a point wherethat's not needed, but at the

(28:40):
point of this recording, humansare still needed.
So how do we incentivize andleverage the individual to use
it for the best output possible?
And that's what I found is theway we think about it.
So, if I can, instead of goingthey're going to take all of our
jobs, no, they're going toallow us to 10X our output.
Same people, 10x the output.
Well, there's not a market forthat.

(29:01):
Well, then get sales to figuresomething out.
Let's build a market.
We have the infrastructure.
Let's get creative.
I think a lot of companies getbig, we get fat, we get lazy and
we kind of like what we'redoing.
So because of that, we're notforcing things the way we need
to force things and gettingthings where they need to go.
So I would be highlyencouraging.
You have an administrativeindividual.
How are they going to use AI tobetter do their job and share

(29:22):
it?
Don't hide it.
I don't want them to know I'mnot really doing the work.
No, that should be exciting.
That is called working smarter,not harder.
We have been trying to teachleaders to do this.
We've been trying to teach ourpeople to do this, and now we
have a tool that allows us towork smarter and not harder, and
we're going to penalize peoplefor it.
The hypocrisy that we run intobecause we don't sit back and go
.
Let me think about this.
This is an amazing tool that.

(29:45):
Is it going to destroy society?
Maybe, but society Maybe, butit's only going to destroy
society because of the humanswho create it and use it, and
it's the same concept.
It's not that I don't trust AI,I don't trust the humans.
That's my biggest issue.
Yeah, so like it's how we use it.
Is it a tool or is it an idol?
If we idolize it, it's going tobe a disaster.
If it's a tool, then we'regoing to be in a great spot,

(30:05):
just like every other revolutionand growth in society that
we've experienced to this point.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, I love that.
You said that.
I often call it the evangelistcrowd.
Like the idolization of it,like acting as if it's going to
solve all of society's problems,Like we are still the ones that
have to fix everything.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
And we're still morally flawed and we still do
things that are not good toother people.
So instead of wondering if thistool is going to destroy us,
the question is how are we goingto?
It's still the most adaptiveand advanced creatures that we
know of that have ever walked onthis planet.
What are we going to do?
How are you going to use it forgood versus bad?
Our instinct is naturally to gobad, and we talk about this

(30:44):
when we say that people aren'tthe problem.
People have problems and that'swhy you have people problems
the problem.
People have problems and that'swhy you have people problems.
And once we can get our peopleto recognize, hey, my issue with
my spouse is actually impactinghow I'm working here.
If I could fix my marriage, Icould probably do my job better.
Financially, I'm a train wreckHealth-wise man.
It hurts to wake up.
I'm out of shape.
Putting clothes on isuncomfortable sometimes.
It helps to fix that part ofour body so that we can come to

(31:07):
work and do what we know we cando of our body, so that we can
come to work and do what we knowwe can do.
There used to be a big trend ofyou know man.
We have a major hiring problem.
I think that was very welladdressed.
Companies that I work with hirereally, really well.
The issue is is we don't getthe person who came in for the
interview to show up at the job,because you're getting the best
version of that person in thatinterview and we want to make
sure that we're moving them inthe proper direction.

(31:29):
And and we want to make surethat we're moving them in the
proper direction and when theyshow up on that first day and by
day 30, it's like they're not.
You can't even recognize who itwas in the interview.
That willing wit, who's willingto do whatever it takes to get
the job done.
Transaction happened and all ofa sudden they never showed up.
And I joke with people.
I go hey, out of thetransaction that happened at the
interview was we will pay you Xdollars to do this job.
Who hasn't held up their end ofthe bargain?

(31:51):
Because I can almost promiseyou, legally the company hasn't
rescinded on their offer.
But yet your offer of what youwere going to do for that
compensation, you might not wantto push that envelope Because
if we were to pay you on theactual effort based on what you
said you would do in theinterview, you'd be getting a
50% pay cut.
For most people, the averageperson's only functioning about
40% of their ability.
When we come in, we show themthat, which bumps them to 60,

(32:14):
and then we give them the toolsto get them to 80.
And the key is that 80% number.
We call it the 180-100.
I want to hire someone who cando 100% of the responsibility,
at 80% of their effort, to get100% of their compensation.
The reason I say that is somepeople will be like well, they
need to be working 100%.
If you're hiring someone whoneeds to be at 100% of their

(32:36):
effort to get 100% of theexpectations that you have set,
they are already coming in andthey will burn out very quickly.
I want someone who's got somemore left in the tank.
If you're redlining the wholetime, you're going to spend more
time in the shop and you'regoing to have that burnout.
So instead, if you hiresomebody, you're like man, if
they could do it at 100%, theycould do this job.
That might not be the best fitfor that person.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Just saying yeah, or you might want to just leave
some cushion for them to have abad day, exactly.
Exactly right, so maybe wedidn't bring our expectations.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, and that's the issue that comes with it.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
But you mentioned there, you know, delivering on
some of the, you know moreefficiency and productivity, and
when we were talking beforethis you had told me that the
plan kind of on average deliversan extra 15 hours of
productivity per week.
I'm curious what do you believemost people will spend that
time on?

Speaker 2 (33:24):
So without a proper system put in place, I kind of
joke about it as maybe the firstan extra 15 hours of
productivity, it's an extraweekend every single month, or
an extra month every single year.
If you were just to do the mathand when you ask me, what would
they do?
Is you kind of get a couplehobbies thrown out there and
then eventually someone's likesleep and I was like, yeah, we
all know that right.
Like we would sleep, we wouldrelax, we would rest.

(33:45):
And what happens is I tellpeople a story and it's a story
about a woman named Evelyn Adams.
Evelyn Adams, in the late 90s,was sick of being poor, so she
made up this entire plan andfollowed through perfectly, made
$2.5 million the first year,followed the plan again the
second year, another $2.5million, $5 million.
Evelyn Adams ended her lifepoor in the same trailer.

(34:05):
What happened?
Evelyn Adams went to the cornerstore, bought a lottery ticket,
scratched it off $2.5 million,ran through that money.
Went back the next year again,jackpot, again, same scratch off
.
Only person in history, atleast that I know of, that has
hit the same scratch off lotteryticket twice back to back the
years.
The reason why I say this is.
Evelyn Adams did not have amoney problem.
She had a spending problem Time.

(34:29):
We all have 24 hours in a day,so we don't have a time problem,
we have a spending problem.
So if I was to give you 15extra hours without giving you a
solution on how to best handleit and maximize what you do at
that time, within probably maybea year, maybe two, you're just
going to have a 13th month inyour 12-month calendar.
You'll go right back to whereyou were.
We, as humans, default down.
You look at the second law ofthermodynamics, right.

(34:52):
Entropy that everything leadsto chaos, right.
Anything left unattended leadsto decay.
Humans are the same exact way.
That is why intention is sonecessary in order to experience
fulfillment.
From what we talked about in thebeginning, is this exact same
concept.
So what do I think most peoplewould do if they did this
properly?
They'd spend more time beingnot doing.

(35:13):
We're human beings, not humandoings.
Right?
Like you said, we are peopleoffering a professional service,
not professionals trying topretend to be people, and we
confuse that very often.
Same situation here More peoplewould be.
Here's what being would looklike taking their time to be
with their family, taking theirtime to think through things,
just contemplating, standing outthere and looking up at the

(35:36):
clouds and just thinking.
That is what humans do when itcomes to being in that restful
state.
We think, and then what we doafter we think is we create.
That is what we do.
We naturally create things whenwe have time to do things.
We solve problems and we createthings.
That is the strength of humansand it's called adaptation.

(35:56):
It's the only reason we arewhere we are, in the chain of
command of what's happening inthis planet is we were given
this gift of adapting in a waythat no other animal can.
How do I know this?
I'm speaking to you from awhole different part of the
world, right to you, covered upwith lights on microphones,
power, all that stuff thatdidn't come from being rushed
and overdrawn in your workplace.

(36:17):
That came from individualshaving time to think, right?
You look at all the timesThomas Edison failed or Tesla
failed, right?
They had time to process and dothis stuff.
So that is what I'd like to say.
I would love to see people dowith that extra 15 hours.
What I find that people do withthat that are clients of ours
is they do, they sit there andthey go on what we call

(36:38):
daddy-daughter dates ordaddy-dude dates, or they go on
life dates with their spouse.
They rekindle all the thingsthat value.
They start going to the gym.
If you had an extra four hoursevery week, would you go to the
gym?
Yeah, you eventually kind ofget bored of doing nothing, so
you start doing something andwhen you actually have intention
on your week, you're going tostart filling it with the stuff
you want to do.
One of the concepts that we dois we call it reverse planning.
This is how you get these 15hours.

(36:59):
You start with what you want todo, then what you need to do,
and then you only do what'sactually important.
You delegate the rest.
Now, there's multiple ways youcan delegate.
If you're like I don't haveanyone to delegate it to call me
up, shoot us a message.
We'd be happy to show you howto do that.
But the key to all of this isthat concept of intention
Setting your week in thebeginning of the week, living

(37:20):
seven days at a time, because amonth's too long, a day's too
short and a week has flexibility, because if I can't do it on
Monday, I can move it to Tuesday.
If I can't do it on Tuesday, Ican move it to Wednesday, but it
also gives you enough of afinish line on the end of the
week that you have a little bitof pressure, and humans work
well with deadlines, so that'swhy we do all this.
So what would they do with the15 hours?

(37:40):
I hope they would do more ofthe things they like to do.
They'd go play golf more.
They'd go fish more.
They'd spend time with theirfamily more, they'd just go hang
out more.
That's what I'd love to seehumans do more of stop and be
versus constantly do.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
I think you're right, because I think, if you look at
what people started to doduring COVID, right when all
this space was cleared, theystarted picking up hiking, going
to big parks.
Yeah, golf exploded during thattime.
Yeah, think about the thingsthat people chose to opt into.
It was those things that wasgoing to give them space, allow
them to think, give them somequiet time.
So I think that's natural.

(38:15):
I want to ask you one morequestion before we kind of wrap
up, but you were describing adynamic to me when we were
talking before this about a bigtech company which people either
felt entitled or enslaved, andby that we mean enslaved in the
sense that people didn'tunderstand how to pay back the
company's investment in them andthey stay and they work their

(38:35):
butt off right.
They even grind themselves downand it becomes a diminishing
return after a while.
Take me through this idea offlipping the usual.
You know, company teachesemployee model on its head.
How do you equip the individual?
Company teaches employee modelon its head.
How do you equip the individualbasically to kind of sum up
what we've been talking about tobridge the gap.
Back to the company, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
So I think the biggest thing to focus on is
realizing, in that specificsituation.
This was a huge organization,one that every single person, if
I said, would know it, one thatwas known for work-life balance
.
And they called us because theyneeded help with work-life
balance and I was just caughtoff guard.
I was kind of like, well, waita minute, I need to understand
this better.
You're the reason all of us dothis stuff.

(39:15):
You kind of started thisconcept and when I was talking
with the individual that I wasworking with, I asked.
I said what's going on?
How do you not have work-lifebalance?
You have everything you needright here.
How does it not happen?
And they said, well, because Ieither feel entitled meaning
well, I just deserve it, thatwas part of the package I was
told I was going to get or Ifelt enslaved, meaning, just
like you said, david, that theyworked and they kind of kept

(39:38):
trying to earn back what it wasthat was given to them.
There was no true valueunderstood behind it.
When we as managers, hr,specifically, when we're working
with humans, the focus needs tobe on value, not on offer, not
on the actual tangible item.
Hey, here's a bonus.
That means nothing.

(39:58):
If you were giving your peoplemeaningless bonuses, percentage
raises because they've beenthere for a year, you're
shooting yourself in the foot.
You're losing all benefit ofmotivation.
What we need to do is properlyarticulate what is happening,
why we are doing this and whatis expected because we are doing
this.
So, for example, if we areoffering a benefit to an

(40:19):
individual, the expectation isnot that they can pay back the
value of what they're gettingout of it.
The expectation is they canfocus on their work and this
hardship that we're trying toremove for you is no longer a
hardship.
Why do we offer healthcare toour employees?
You ever walk people throughthat.
We're offering this to you sothat if you were to ever have an
issue with your family, you cango to the doctor and you're not

(40:41):
financially going to bedestroyed.
That's why we're offering thisto you.
It's not to compare apples tooranges Like well, theirs is
better, mine's like.
That's not why we're doing this.
So how well do you articulatethe benefit package and how well
do you offer things that theytruly care about?
And that's the other thing.
We spend so much money because,especially with the larger
companies, we sit there and wego.

(41:01):
Well, we can't customize it foreverybody and I say, yes, you
can.
We worked with another companyhad about 900 people we were
working with, very regulatedwithin the company that you
couldn't give more than $20without going illegal to approve
what it was hourly employees.
How do you get these 900employees, just for this
department of this company, todo this?
Well, you're able to do it whenyou ask the right questions and

(41:22):
you put the proper systembehind it and you track the
proper metrics.
We step back and we kind ofaccept how complex or
complicated what humans are,that we feel we don't need to be
tracked by any metrics.
And when I do everything I dofor UHR, professionals or
whoever's listening to this, Itell people I always get metrics
.
Even if they're not accuratefrom a data perspective, there

(41:45):
are still ways to use them.
So, for example, I will asksomeone where are they today and
where do they want to go, ifthey say they're a five and they
want to go to a seven, and thenI ask them 90 days later, where
are you?
And they say I'm a six.
I know we made progress.
We didn't get where we wantedto go, but we did make progress.
So I can evaluate the actionswe're taking to see is this
working or not.

(42:06):
If I go into a company, wealways track metrics, we always
track benchmarks and thendesired outcomes.
In certain situations, thatbenchmark, let's say we get it
on a scale right, because a lotof our one-on-one executive
coaching clients, right, theywant to lose weight, they want
to get healthy.
That always pops up.
If I have a conversation.
I'll ask them.
I'll say say Well, let's saythe scale is off by 10 pounds.
So the scale says I'm 210 whenI'm really 200, but my goal is

(42:34):
to get to 190.
So my goal is to lose 10 pounds.
I walk on that same scale 90days later.
That same scale is still 10pounds off, but instead of
saying 210, it now says 200.
I can confidently say, as longas the scale is at the same
amount, that I've lost those 10pounds I was looking for.
So the number on the scale isnot accurate, but the progress
is.
So I use questions withindividuals.
They set the growth they wantto make and they're the one

(42:55):
who's going to judge it at firstand judge it afterwards.
And what I found is we, ashumans, because we don't take
time to explain the benefitsbecause we don't take time for
people to understand what isgoing on.
We are burning resources andnot getting what we want, and
that is why we focus onmaximizing results with the
current resources we have.
The last thing we could do as aconsultant I think is so

(43:15):
foolish is come in and say, hey,you're going to pay us all this
money.
Let us tell you now what youneed to invest in.
It's like that is a disaster.
What I'd rather do is hey, letme show you that you're at 40%
of your efficiency.
Here's how you get to 60.
And if you want to add thesesystems, we'll get you to 80.
But you don't need to be at 100.
Being at 80 is a great place tobe, because when growth happens

(43:35):
, change happens, a pandemichappens, a war happens, economic
unrest happens, these gaps getlarger.
One other thing that happenedwith COVID is it exposed the
weakness within companies?
Right, oh man?
With COVID, is it exposed theweakness within companies?
Right, oh man?
We can't get our people to workfrom home.
Well, because they weren'tworking at work.
You just didn't know it.
You thought they were becausethey were showing up.
It didn't change what COVID didoutside of the health part which

(43:57):
obviously was a big issue is ittook away our structure and our
rhythm.
And structure brings freedom andrhythm brings peace, and
without those two, if you're notequipping your people to
experience structure and rhythmon a regular basis, humans don't
function well.
We don't function well in chaos.
We've learned to function inchaos, but it's not our natural

(44:18):
state, it's not our most optimalstate.
So because of that, we come in,we customize solutions, which I
suggest you all.
Do you make sure they pass thetest that it's not just works in
their professional life, but italso works in your personal
life, because truth is constantand application changes.
So, as an HR director, if I wasto challenge anyone who's
listening to this, what do we do?
If you don't want to give me acall, that's totally fine, but

(44:40):
if you don't call me, take thetime to make sure is the stuff
you're offering to your peopleactually going to allow them to
experience the results they wantand properly equip them to deal
with the problems themselves?

Speaker 1 (44:52):
All right, matt.
Well, this has been a superfascinating discussion.
I love I could talk all daywith you about this stuff.
It's been.
It's a lot of the same stuffthat I'm really interested in
around this, and I know a lot ofother HR professionals are
asking themselves the samequestions.
Before we go, there's a couplethings we always like to do.
I want to first give you achance to tell people more about
where they can connect with youand find out more about what
you've got going on.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, well, let me know when we're going to go
round two, because again, wejust scratched the surface.
But this is a topic I love whatyou're doing in the field that
you're in.
If you want to connect with us,what we'll do is we'll just
create a custom page for thispodcast for these listeners,
which will be lifepulseinccombackslash PMP.
There's a couple of simple ways, some free resources we'll give
on there that way, if you'rekind of like, hey, this makes a

(45:34):
little sense.
How do I dive deeper, come onthrough there and you can access
those right away.
You can find us on social of atlifepulseinc.
All socials, linkedin.
Friend me, I know HR, we liveon LinkedIn, so let's connect on
LinkedIn and have conversationsthere.
And if there's any major issuesyou're running into, we give
free consultations all the time.
I love having theseconversations.
Either myself or another experton the team.

(45:55):
We'll jump on a quick call withyou, hear what issues you're
running into, what are the gapsthat you're hitting when it
comes to performance, and we'lljust tell you how to fix them.
Again, if it leads to something, fantastic.
But if not, we just want to seethe culture change and get away
from the grinded out mentalityand get to a metric-driven,
people-focused attention thatwill get sustainable results,
regardless of the industryyou're in and the size of the

(46:16):
company.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
All right, and the last thing that we have on every
episode, I give you a chance toask me a question, so I'll turn
it over to you.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Ask me anything you want, All right.
So question I asked when I amin a situation like this with an
expert who's in this industryand you have interviewed a lot
of people is what is the onething that pops in your head
when it comes with a concept youwere taught that was misleading
?
I mean, once you actuallystarted working through it, you

(46:44):
realize wait a minute, this isnot a good concept, right?
And I say ask this to prefacethe fact that the self-growth
world, especially now with theinternet, has so many people
that pop up as gurus and theygive advice and I'm listening to
it and I'm going that'sterrible advice, that's
detrimental to do, but it's hardto understand that in today's
world of what's real, what's notreal, who is who?

(47:05):
So what would you say?
Is something that you'veexperienced, guidance or
something you heard that whenyou put into play, you realized
that was not based in truth?

Speaker 1 (47:14):
That's a good question.
I think the first thing thatcomes to mind is sort of the way
that the law of attraction istaught or like put out there,
right?
This idea that, like you canvision board and daily affirm is
your way to whatever that youwant and the truth is is like
that's a mindset exercise.
It's a valid one, you canthere's a million different ways

(47:36):
you can do it but that's amindset exercise.
That's to help you identifywhat's important to you.
That's to help you cultivate avision for the future.
It's not necessarily what you'regoing to get, and that's
important to remember, but it'sabout you putting into your mind
and also into your actions, andthat's the part that gets lost,

(47:57):
right?
It's like how is this going toinform my actions?
Because it's fun to make avision board, but it's not
inherently useful unless youhave some kind of action plan
for how this piece is going toget onto the board of your
reality.
And how this piece is going toget onto the board of your
reality.
You know what I mean, and soyou might get an uplift in your

(48:19):
mood or you might start thinkingmore positively around those
things, but the thing that youenvisioned isn't actually going
to happen unless you have aclear action plan attached to it
.
And then I would even go so faras to say tactics like you need
tactics to think of, like okay,if that action doesn't work,
what's this one, what about thisone?

(48:40):
Or can I move, pivot in thisdirection and will that achieve
the same result?
And sort of thinking throughall this.
When you put the system inplace and you have that time to
look at the clouds, there you go.
That's what you need to bethinking about.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
That's so good.
We actually our OPC, which isour coaching community we do.
One of the topics we do isdebunking the concept of
manifestation and affirmations.
It's exactly what you'retalking about.
It's not.
Oh, if I think hard enough, Ican make it happen.
No, you can't.
That's the same concept offulfillment.
The catalyst of it is intention.
There are actions that need tobe taken in order to get where

(49:13):
you want to go.
Now.
It might keep you focused.
Right.
When I see pictures of myfamily, I'm reminded hey, don't
forget, you got to go up andlove on them a little bit.
Right, that concept, that is areminder, like you said, keeping
me focused.
But, man, it is so true.
There's a great episode ofAlways Sunny in Philadelphia if
you haven't watched it wherethey come at this pretty hard.
And if you come in and hear anyof our content, we are very

(49:34):
vocal on our disdain for thattype of a snake oil sales pitch,
which is what it is, and itgets you excited, doesn't get
you results.
So truth is what we focus on.
But, man, david, I appreciateyou having us on and, again,
what you're doing in thiscommunity, getting good content
out there, honest content, issomething that's very much
needed, awesome.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Well, Matt, thanks for joining us today.
Thanks, David, and listeners.
Until next time.
You know hashtag get lit.
No, I'm just kidding, no, butif you haven't done so already,
head on over topeoplemanagingpeoplecom.
Forward slash, subscribe, getsigned up for the newsletter and
until next time, look at yourcalling and your assignment and

(50:14):
don't get them twisted with youridentity.