Episode Transcript
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Chase Warrington (00:00):
Having an
open door to confrontation, like
(00:02):
for example, for someone fairlyjunior to raise their hand and
challenge the CEO on, Hey, whyis this our mission statement?
First of all, we have theculture where that can happen.
That's acceptable and expected,'cause that radical candor
creates an open environmentand most transparency and
autonomy and all those things.
But then also we acted on itand we had the conversation
(00:23):
where we said that Ithink it has to matter.
David Rice (00:29):
Welcome to the
People Managing People podcast.
We're on a mission to build abetter world of work and help
you create happy, healthy,and productive workplaces.
I'm your host, David Rice.
My guest today isChase Warrington.
He is the Head ofOperations at Doist.
We're gonna be talking aboutcreating cultures of purpose.
A quick heads upabout this episode.
I've met Chase at aconference in Austin, Texas
(00:50):
back at the beginning ofMay, and that's where this
conversation takes place.
So when you hear a lot ofbackground noise or you feel the
difference in audio, that's why.
We recorded this live outsideon the lawn at a picnic table,
as Chase had a break betweenspeaking engagements, so
forgive the audio quality.
It's not quite as perfectas you'd usually get from
us, but a such is thedemands of live production.
(01:14):
I hope you still enjoy.
First question for you was,do you have to define purpose
in the context of remote worka bit differently than you
would if the team's person?
And I'm curious, would yousay it's even more important
for a distributed team?
Chase Warrington (01:30):
I think
that we've reached a point
where distributed work islike part of the norm for
most companies on some level.
And so distinguishingbetween the two has become
so difficult for me.
It's a little challenging tosay because for me, you're, any
organization, whether you'reco-located or distributed
without purpose, you've got awhole bunch of people rowing in
a bunch of different directions,and it's very challenging.
(01:52):
I do think when you're in anA distributed environment,
it's uber important, thatyou're extremely intentional
about your verbiage, aboutyour goals, about the
purpose of the company.
And so we do spend an exorbitantamount of time on this.
At DOIs.
We wanna make sure thatour values are very clear.
We wanna reinforce those becausepeople don't have a space
that they walk into every dayand get to see and feel that.
(02:15):
So we have to speakand say it a lot more.
And so I do think there'sa level of intentionality
that's a little bit higherwith fully distributed teams
or teams that are basedaround distributed work.
David Rice (02:27):
Would you say
that's like the hardest
part or like the biggestchallenge that organizations
face in maintaining apurpose driven culture?
Because there's this partof me that feels like how
we build work the way wethink about business, right?
We've made it difficultfor purpose to be anything
not tied directly to thebottom line, we get lost.
It's chasing that and we wantthe rewards that are tied to
(02:48):
that and sometimes we spenda good amount of time on.
Chase War (02:53):
Very easy to do that.
At one point our missionstatement as a company.
Was to build the future of work.
So we had a lot of ourmarketing, our branding, our
goals tied to that mission.
And at one point during aleadership meeting, someone
just raised the hand, like,why is that our mission?
Our customers don'tfit that mission.
(03:13):
We're building a company fora customer base that isn't
aligned with that mission.
And taking a step back andrealizing you know what?
Maybe we got the wrong mission.
Maybe we need to changeour mission completely.
And we realized in reality whatwe were saying one thing, but
we were actually doing another.
And so now our mission is tobuild simple yet powerful tools.
And that guides us so much more.
We bake that intoeverything that we're doing.
(03:34):
Not just the productsthat we're building, but
also like our operations.
When we look at doing something,anything internally, we
say, what's the simple yetpowerful version of this?
And so that's really becomelike a guiding light for us.
And I think it wasarticulating that, having a
come to Jesus conversationwith yourself, saying, Hey.
I don't think we've got theright mission here, but it also
has reinforced how importantit's to have the right mission.
(03:56):
And so again, like I, I thinkit doesn't, it's not just about
the product for us, it's notjust about the bottom line.
We're very explicit about that.
We wanna build somethingthat we're proud of and
a company that outlastsus and all those things.
But it does come downto our mission statement
and then baking that intoeverything that we do.
David Rice (04:11):
Now periods of
change, contested organization's
commitments to a purpose.
And you just mentioned what youguys changed quite a bit there.
Yeah.
How can companies maintainor even strengthen their
purpose during thosetimes of transition?
And I'm uncertainty, will it?
'cause I imagine when youstarted that you didn't know
we, are we on the right path?
Chase Warrington (04:29):
No.
Yeah, we, you know what?
I think it's talking toyour customers, whether your
customers, in my case, like I'm.
In charge of operationsat our companies.
So my quote unquote customersare my teammates who I'm
trying to serve with anepic user experience.
But for our product team andour marketing team, it's talking
to customers and realizingwhat is it that they really
want, or what do they actuallyuse our tool for, or what do
(04:49):
they actually want from us asopposed to just what do we want?
What do we think we are?
And so I think gettingoutside of your own little
bubble can be important.
And I, and so I found this.
I've learned a lot fromlike our product teams, for
example, because I look atour team as a product and I
go out and I talk to the teamand I say, what's working?
What's not working?
We do that through surveys.
(05:10):
We do that, but we've also beendoing a lot more one-on-one
conversations to find out isour purpose aligned with what
you actually want from us, oris there more that we can do?
And it's led to someseismic shifts in the
way that we do things.
But little by littlewe're iterating day by
day and creating a bettersystem for our team.
David Rice (05:28):
A lot of companies,
they articulate their purpose
through, like you said,the mission state, right?
Yeah.
And core values, butstruggle to necessarily
embed those into thoseideals in a daily operation.
How can organizationseffectively translate the
stated purpose into tangibleactions and behaviors
that we consistentlydemonstrate across all of.
Chase Warrin (05:47):
Repetition is key.
I think there's two thingsI said the leaders actually
have to walk the walk.
A lot of times it soundsgreat, like you write down
cool core values and this,and then like I was talking
to someone who said that oneof their core values was.
Like a company that wasbeing very frugal, like
they said we're going to,we're gonna be very frugal.
But then they actuallyweren't at all.
They were investing all kindsof money and wasting all
(06:08):
kinds of money on exorbitanttrips and all kinds of things.
They said, you're notreally aligned with one
of your core values.
So I. We drill.
At one point we hadseven core values.
We've drilled it down to four.
We've refined thatyear over year.
We talk about it daily.
There's not a day that goes bythat we say, Hey, that what I'm
seeing here doesn't align withour core value of communication.
What I've seen heredoesn't align with our
(06:29):
core value of mastery.
And so you, the leaders practicewhat they preach, but then we
preach it over and over again.
And then I think the other thingis like documenting it like so
we have a very robust handbook.
It has a lot of detailon our core values
and mission statement.
And on top of that, we havebaked in ways that people
can react to others in asocially acceptable way.
(06:51):
To say, Hey, you're notaligned with our core values
in this particular instance.
And inviting that has reallycreated a culture that
allows people to providesome constructive criticism
to someone when they'renot aligned with what we're
trying to do as a company.
And so that's really madeeverybody very much so
they're behind the values andthey're living them every day.
David Rice (07:10):
Purpose.
This is the first time I'veheard people talk about
it, but it can be taken fora bit of a ride at times.
Yeah.
Folks wanna use it inemployer branding messages.
They PR effort.
It's I'm, as you cancall it, purpose washing.
So if they're lacking thatsense of genuine commitment.
I'm curious, what strategies canleaders employ to ensure that
purpose driven initiatives comeoff as But they are authentic.
(07:32):
Yeah.
And not merely performing.
Chase Warrington (07:34):
I mentioned
this earlier, like we, we
went through this phase wherefor many years our mission
statement was the wrong mission.
It wasn't what we wereactually doing or serving who
we were actually trying toserve, but it sounded nice.
And it felt good, but itwasn't really driving the
bottom line in the way thatwe wanted, and it wasn't
really aligned with what wewere actually trying to do.
And so having the conversation,like having an open door
(07:56):
to confrontation, likefor example, for someone.
Fairly junior to raisetheir hand and challenge
the CEO on, Hey, why isthis our mission statement?
First of all, we have theculture where that can happen.
That's acceptable and expectedbecause that radical candor
creates an open environmentand the most transparency and
autonomy and all those things.
But then also we acted on itand we had the conversation
(08:19):
where we said that Ithink it has to matter.
I talk to a lot of leaderswhere I don't know that
they actually care toomuch about these things.
They just wanna make money,or they just wanna create a
really cool, shiny product andexit, or whatever it may be.
But for leaders who actuallycare about these things
and want their business tobe a representative of who
they really are, I thinkthose types of leaders seem
to be thriving in the longrun from my perspective.
David Rice (08:42):
You mentioned
their radical candor and I
think like it's an awesome termand there's probably a lot of
leaders that think, yeah, okay,yeah, but do I really want that?
Take me through thatconversation of yeah,
this is good for us.
Chase Warrington (08:55):
We
have 10 communication
standards written down.
There are 10.
So communication is one ofour core values because we
work in a hyper asynchronousenvironment, like good written
communication that followsa series of standards is.
Paramount for that's theonly way that we can work.
And if we don't nailthat, then our company's
doomed from the beginning.
(09:15):
So within those 10 standards,one of them towards the
top of that list is radicalcandor, and it's promoted and
expected, and it's more so I.
Someone will use that radicalcandor on you if you're not
using that radical candor.
So we really promotethat type of environment.
And I think it's, it's workingin a somewhat hierarchal list
environment where anybody isopen to challenge anything.
(09:36):
We put a lot of emphasis onbuilding in public and sharing
and making sure that it's verytransparent what each team and
what each squad in our case isworking on, but then allowing
people to question things.
And the challenge is saying,why are we doing it that way?
And I think in ourculture, at least you get.
Praised for being the challengerand for being the one that
would question something andhierarchy doesn't really matter
(09:58):
and it's just, it's bakedinto the way that we work.
And it sounds, I've talkedto some people who think
it sounds a little bit likelip service, like you can't
really actually be that way.
But I can, I just, I. I don't,it doesn't behoove me to say
that it really is, and I, forme, having worked in a couple
different places, I reallyappreciate that because I've
learned so much from peopleacross the organization
who come at things froma very fresh perspective.
David Rice (10:20):
Yeah.
Chase Warrington (10:20):
And so
things that I may be a
functional expert on, I'mgetting challenged by someone
who's not, but they'requestioning, line of questioning
is actually very helpful.
And so that multiplied acrossa hundred people opens up a
lot of doors every single day.
David Rice (10:33):
Aligning performance
metrics, with organizational
purpose can obviously be, ofcourse, desired behavior, but
what are some effective waysto incorporate purpose into
evaluations and incentivestructures to ensure
alignment between individualgoals and the company?
Chase (10:46):
That's a great question.
It's not my personalarea of expertise.
So our head of people wouldbe much better at answering
this than I am, and in fact.
One of the projects that we'reworking on as we speak, we've
got a quarter long initiativeto revamp our whole feedback
and performance system.
So basically just tearingdown what we've built
over the years and makinga better version of it.
Basically the idea behind it isthat we wanna create a system
(11:08):
based on a lot of peer feedbackand a lot of be a little bit
hard to go into it withouttoo much detail, but everybody
is simultaneously working ontheir individual team and on
a cross-functional team that'stackling a specific project.
We want to create a systemthat is aligned with our
core values and missionstatement where people on
both team level and the squadlevel, the cross-functional
(11:28):
level, can provide feedbackon how somebody operates in
alignment with our core values.
And then that is specificallytied to performance reviews
and all the things that comewith your performance review.
So at the core of it,again, is the core values
and that's where the wholesystem is baked around.
David Rice (11:46):
I wanna
thank you for giving us
some of your time today.
Now, before we go, I alwayshave two things I like to do.
First, I wanna give you a chanceto tell people where they can
connect with you, find out moreabout what you got going on.
Chase Warrington (11:54):
I am
most active on LinkedIn.
That's actually thebest place to connect.
David Rice (12:01):
And the last
thing is we have a little
tradition here on the podcast.
Before I go sign off eachepisode, we give you a
chance to ask me a question.
Chase Warrington (12:08):
Yeah.
Oh, fantastic.
David Rice (12:10):
Anything you want.
Chase Warrington (12:11):
I would
love to know, is this your
first time at running remote?
David Rice (12:13):
It is.
It is, yeah.
First time here andit's it's been cool.
It's actually myfirst time in Austin.
Chase Warrington (12:18):
Yeah.
Okay.
Alright.
What's been the best partabout the event so far?
David Rice (12:22):
Seeing
the commitment to it.
There's all thesemedia narratives
going around about it.
They're, everybody's gettingpulled back into office.
It's not gonna, it's gonna seethrough the, they never bought.
But it's nice to see the levelof commitment that's in the
road to not only making itwork, but making it better.
Yeah.
To figuring out like whatthe next version looks like.
That's, yeah.
(12:42):
It's refreshing.
Yeah.
And as somebody who worksbetter remotely, I got, I get
more done now than I ever.
Five X is watched on now, andso yeah, it's important to
me like this is what I want.
Chase Warrington (12:57):
Going to
be surrounded by the people
that speak the same language.
David Rice (12:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Chase Warr (13:02):
Thank you very much.