July 29, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, Thomas Steele shares a voice memo with book recommendations and reflects on the podcast's impact. He discusses the decision to close his business and its personal effects while starting a new LLC. Keaton Turner offers advice on balancing marriage and entrepreneurship, exploring creative job security solutions, equity offerings, and choosing the right business partners. They discuss cash flow challenges in construction and the importance of a supportive life partner. The episode concludes with listener stories and a shoutout for the hundredth review.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hey, Keaton.
This is Thomas Steele.
I've never left a voice memo before, so I surehope this goes okay.
I'm actually in my f one fifty.
Just got done driving a job site up north andnow headed back south of the house, so I sure
hope this audio is okay.
But hope you're having a good day, man.
(00:25):
I just finally caught up with all your podcastsyesterday and been enjoying those.
So I just started up Jab Jab Jab Right Hook byGary Vaynerchuk today.
And, so I'm working my way through all of yourawesome book recommendations.
I listened to Elon Musk book a while back.
(00:45):
And so, man, just wanted to tell you, I'mreally enjoying your podcast.
I sent you a text a while back just to kindalet you know very lightly, you know, what kinda
good it's done in my own life, You know, allthe topics that you bring up about Christian
menly leadership and, you know, relationshipswith our wives has really, really helped me
(01:11):
and, you know, spurred all some goodconversations with my wife.
We actually both listened together to the firstpodcast with Shelby, and so I think like a lot
of the other guys and listeners' wives, we bothreally loved it, and of course that spurred on
some good conversations of its own.
So, Keith, you're doing some real good outthere, man, and I hope that you keep it up.
(01:36):
You know, I really think you're doing a lot ofgood, you know, these guys' lives and, you
know, just kinda giving us a good light to, youknow, just keep fighting through each day.
So, man, I, you know, I suppose, you know, partof the reason for the call today was to let you
know, you know, what a great guy you are, andthen the other part of the call is to, you
(02:00):
know, just kinda let you talk out a little bitabout a way that I feel like I'm being lukewarm
in my life right now, and the good Lord callsus to, you know, be hot and heavy in one
direction and to not be and to not be lukewarm.
So but anyways, I feel like I've been bad inthat in that aspect here lately.
(02:22):
So I guess I'll lay it out just a little bit.
I actually started up a business three yearsago, and I had a business partner, he was my
brother-in-law, and we got into a quarryingoperation a couple states away, and we went
out, you know, bid on this project, we wereawarded it.
(02:47):
It was supposed to be a four week long gig, sowe put together the whole package, people,
equipment, resource, etcetera.
Went out to this guy's quarry, did our work,what was supposed to be a four week project
turned out to be a seven week project.
We had equipment issues, every differentdirection.
(03:08):
The environment was really hard because it waswintertime up at the mountains, and we had a
really tough time getting our way through thatproject.
Similarly to you, I heard your first projectwas a $30,000 loss.
My first project was also pretty near a $30,000loss, I think a little bit higher.
(03:33):
And I came out of that project feeling prettypeony.
So we wrapped up the job.
We hadn't been awarded anything else we couldbunny hop the guys onto next.
We ended up sending the guys home.
That was a bit heartbreaking.
And then spent close to a month bidding onother projects and weren't ever getting any
(03:59):
hits.
As part of the losses on the project, I hadactually taken on some personal credit card
debt, and I was pretty close to being maxed outon my credit card.
My wife and I at the time were talking aboutmoving out of her parents' house, where we were
living at the time, to save money, and movinginto another family member's house, into a rent
(04:24):
to own situation, and I was very fearful atthat point in time because I had not admitted
to my wife the personal debt that hadaccumulated during the business losses, and I
was fearful that she would be disappointed inme, and I was fearful that we wouldn't be able
to move into a house together, And, I felt sickto my stomach.
(04:51):
I made a few bad decisions.
I ended up telling my business partner that Iwanted to close the doors and go back to work
so I could start getting an income backtogether and get my life back on track
financially wise.
He was not a fan of that.
He wanted me to push through.
He himself was an entrepreneur, business ownerthat had experience in the real bad days, Death
(05:14):
Valley, as you like to call it.
I was in a state of mind where I just was notable to hear that.
I think I disrespected him and didn't give himthe time of day that he deserved to try and
sway me, you know, back into fighting anotherday.
And, ultimately, talked it out with my wife anddecided to close the doors on the business and
(05:40):
actually went back to my previous employer.
They very graciously brought me back.
So I spent a year and a half, maybe two years,just in shambles, basically, about, you know,
what all had gone down and how I felt like I'dfailed my wife and my family and everybody that
(06:03):
worked for me, and just really not wanting togo back into business again, being pretty
aberrant to the idea.
Even had a few other opportunities come up anddecided to say no to those.
Violent came clean to my wife about the debt.
That was not a fun experience, but that was, ina way, a good thing.
(06:26):
You know, God works in mysterious ways that ledus into a 12 step bible study, sort of like AA,
but more for, you know, Christian, you know,redemption and getting out of addictions and
hardships.
And so my wife and I went through that programsimultaneously.
(06:48):
They were men's groups and women's groups, andthat, you know, gave us a lot more Christian
community and grew our relationship together.
And I feel like in the end now, we have astronger marriage than we ever had before.
So that is great.
Praise God.
So now, here I am right at three years after Iinitially quit my full time job to go into
(07:19):
business for myself, and I've now started upthe new LLC, where I basically started it real
lightly and gently thinking, you know, hey, Iget all these cool small construction
opportunities, and I'm going to just try and,you know, take advantage of some of those, and,
(07:43):
you know, try and see if I could do some smallprojects on the side.
Well, that kinda accidentally blew up into abigger thing, and now all of a sudden, I'm
bidding these larger projects, and I was justawarded a, you know, pretty good sized job
that's gonna take a good few weeks, and I'mputting together a crew and some equipment to
go out and do this project, all the while Istill have my full time job.
(08:08):
And so I'm, you know, working very diligentlyfor my employer, who's great, and I have a
great boss, and I'm also now working verypassionately on this, what was supposed to be a
side hustle, and is now turning into somethingbigger a lot quicker than I ever thought it was
going to.
(08:29):
And my wife is by my side cheering me on, doingthings differently now and being very open with
her every step of the way.
I call her my CFO because I run every financialdecision by her now, which I think is just
great.
I don't have a business partner.
(08:49):
It's just only mine they admit it, and it'sonly my money running it now rather than
someone else's money.
And I'm feeling very lukewarm.
I have one foot in the door of my employer, andI have one foot in the door of my own small
business, and I focus very hard on one at atime, and so I'll spend three days working real
(09:13):
hard for my employer, and then I'll spendanother day working real hard on my thing, and
all the while, I'm working hard on one, I'mletting the thing slide on the other, and I
feel like God called me to be a lot moreheadstrong and dedicated into one thing at a
time, and I feel like I'm doing somethingwrong, though I don't know what it is exactly.
(09:40):
I'm very passionate about this new business.
I really like putting together constructiondeals, and I love winning projects.
Therefore, I feel as if I wanna continueforward in my own small business even at the
detriment of my own full time job, though I donot wanna give up the salary until I have a
(10:08):
more structured revenue stream and incomecoming in from the side business, where I would
actually be able to step into that full time.
So, I'm transition in period, and I'm trying topray through it, and I'm trying to talk through
it all with my wife every step of the way andmake sure that I'm making decisions that she's
(10:31):
comfortable with, all the while, you know,trying to keep things going on both ends of my
life now.
And so that's where I'm at, man.
Feel like the right, you know, really the rightanswer would be to go in one end or the other
(10:56):
full force and not be, you know, two legs ateach door like I am right now.
But I don't wanna lose my income, and I reallywanna be in business for myself, and so I'm
keeping on going this way.
So anyways, man, I, you know, thank you forbeing a open ear, and, man, I'm continuing to
(11:21):
pray for you and your family.
Y'all are definitely in me and my wife'sprayers, and I really hope things go well for
your mom.
Anyways, Keaton, man, it's a Thursday evening.
Hope you've got things teed up for a greatFriday and a good weekend.
And yeah, man.
(11:43):
Enjoy your time.
Thank you again for listening.
Bye bye.
54321.
Welcome back to the premium podcast.
Hey.
How you start is how you finish.
How you finish like nine to five.
Stand on business.
Stand on business.
Here's the ketchup.
You gonna need a village.
(12:04):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
We ain't got no limits.
We ain't got no limits.
I have an answer.
I have an opinion.
Shocker.
I know that's gonna surprise some folks.
I've got an answer.
I know how we get through this.
Tom?
(12:26):
Oh, man.
Welcome back to the Per Diem podcast.
I am still Keaton Turner, and this is what Ilive for.
I I mean, first of all, I I have been a big fanof Tom Steele.
And I, you know, I've known Tom from afarvirtually Instagram stuff for years, And and I
(12:53):
always knew you know, I followed Tom back inthe day.
I always knew.
I was like, man, this dude's this dude's like asharp up and comer.
He's he's somebody that's got it.
Every once in a while, I'll I'll run acrosssomeone.
I'm like, man, I think they've got I thinkthey've got, like, the it factor.
I don't know Tom well enough to know if he'sgot the it factor.
But clearly, your employer thinks you've gotthe it factor, Tom, because he took you back
(13:18):
after you left him.
That was a that was I think that was twelve anda half minute audio message from Tom Steele.
I love it.
I love a guy that is young, humble, openenough, real enough to be transparent about
(13:39):
their failures, their flaws, not only thebusiness the little business scurfluffle you
found yourself in.
That's nothing compared to a marriagescurfluffle.
And if you don't know what scurfluffle is, golook that word up.
Business issues are easy when you compare it toa marriage issue.
(14:00):
So the fact that you guys worked through that,man, Tom, that's that's the win right there.
The you know, if the marriage is stronger forgoing through all that BS, there is a silver
lining to every terrible failure in life.
But I I appreciate the heck out of you sharingthat audio.
I know for a fact, without even having to sayany names, I know for a fact, there are dozens
(14:27):
of dudes that listen to that twelve minuteaudio message and were nodding their heads.
They were nodding their heads.
They were in the exact same spot.
They've tried something.
It didn't work.
They took a new job.
They they tried to open their own business.
They got sideways.
(14:48):
They they couldn't quit digging.
They, you know, they dug themselves into ahole.
They didn't know how to get out of the hole.
Maybe they lied about it a little bit or toldsome white lies.
There are dozens of dudes who I know are in thesame spot or have been in the same spot.
I know it.
(15:09):
I have an answer for you, Tom.
And I don't know if this answer is gonna workfor your life.
I don't know if this is gonna get you whatyou're looking for.
But first and foremost, I just wannaacknowledge the fact that that you're as as raw
and transparent as real as you are.
That, my friend, I think is one of the winningingredients in life.
(15:30):
I think your transparency, your willingness toown your BS, your willingness to own your
mistakes, your failures, your shortcomings,like I I think that is one of the foundational
fundamental principles to being successful longterm in life.
So bravo, my friend.
You're you're on the right path.
(15:51):
Here's my answer.
Some of this you're gonna hate.
Some of this you maybe haven't thought about,and some of this you might love.
I think first and foremost, obviously, I thinkyou've realized this by now.
It goes without saying, your partner, and bypartner, I mean your wife, should be treated
(16:14):
like a partner.
I I screwed this one up.
I screwed this one up multiple times when I wasbuilding my business.
I would get home.
I would have a bad day.
Know, sell days is what I used to call them.
I'd have a bad day.
I had a massive business failure, you know, abig loss.
Somebody, you know, got fired or somebody quiton me, and I wouldn't tell my partner about it.
(16:39):
I wouldn't tell Shelby about it.
I I would compartmentalize it all.
I would shove it deep down.
And I still struggle with this, by the way.
And I would treat her like my wife.
And what a husband does, you know, at least alegit husband, what a legit husband does is he
protects his wife from all the bad stuff.
(17:01):
He doesn't want her to hear about the businessfailing.
He doesn't wanna tell her about the credit carddebt that's racking up as he's trying to build
his dreams.
He doesn't he doesn't want her to worry aboutthat.
She's got her own stuff to worry about.
Why would I pile I'm supposed to be theprovider.
I'm supposed to be the strong one.
Why would I tell her all the things that arescrewed up in my business today or the areas
(17:22):
that I failed as a leader today or the badthoughts that I'm having today?
Why would I tell her that?
That's just gonna that's just gonna make hermore anxious, more nervous, more scared.
So I did what a lot of young guys in businessdo, and we didn't talk about it.
I didn't tell her about it.
I was like, ah, that's good.
(17:43):
I got it.
We're fine.
Business is fine.
Money is fine.
My mental state is fine.
If she's your partner in life, she's yourpartner in business.
Whether she you know, whether she's a physicaloperating partner in the business doing actual
business work or not, if she is your partner inlife, she's your partner in business.
(18:05):
And that is one of the hardest things that I'velearned as I've built our business.
Some of our biggest marriage fights have beenover the fact that I didn't wanna share and
didn't wanna, like, pour my heart out over mybad days, And and I wanted to keep it all
separate.
I wanted to keep our marriage separate from ourbusiness, our family separate from, you know,
(18:31):
the challenges in work.
And so, you know, to me, I had to realize, andI'm again, I'm preaching to myself.
I still struggle with this one.
If she's your partner in life, she's yourpartner in business.
Sounds like you've already got that figuredout, Tom, but some somebody probably doesn't
have that figured out and needed to hear thatlittle piece.
(18:52):
No matter if you're chasing the the career paththing, climbing the corporate ladder, or if
you're building your own business, she wants toknow.
She wants to know.
Now if your wife's listening to this, don't useeverything he's about to tell you as ammo.
(19:13):
And and the women know what I mean when I saythis.
If he's gonna open up to you and share hisdeep, dark feelings and bad days and and
worries and stresses and financial pressure,he's gonna share all that with you.
Don't throw it back in his face when the timingis convenient for you, when you're in an
argument, when you're mad, when he's trying to,you know, make you not spend so much money or
(19:37):
whatever.
Don't don't throw it back at him because I canpromise you he'll never share anything with you
again if you do.
So I had to say that.
So, Tom, that's the that's kind of the firstfundamental foundational thing I would say is
if she's if she's your partner in life, yougotta treat her like a partner in business.
(19:57):
I I just I I firmly believe this now afterlearning this lesson multiple times over over
the course of the last eight years.
The second thing I'll tell you, and you mighthate this, I I have never one time met someone
who killed it at their day job and killed it attheir side hustle.
(20:19):
I've never met them.
If someone out there is killing it at their dayjob and killing it on your side hustle, please
reach out to me.
980 I'd love to hear from you.
I've never met someone that kills it at theirday job and has enough energy and mental
capacity and creativity and stamina to go killit in a side hustle.
(20:41):
And and and if your side hustle's makingfriendship bracelets, okay.
That doesn't take a ton.
If your side hustle is actually trying to builda business, I don't know how you can do it with
one foot in your day job and one foot in yourbusiness.
I I don't even think you can do it two feet inyour business.
I think it is a full blown headfirst dive intobusiness if you're gonna have any fighting
(21:07):
chance to make it successful.
This is the part you're gonna hate, Tom.
People underestimate how insanely hard it is tokeep a business alive.
People underestimate it.
People and and you'll hear all my words on thispodcast for, you know, however many episodes we
(21:30):
do, the 175 that we've done.
It it won't do it any justice.
You can read all the books.
You can listen to all the podcasts.
You can go talk to mentors who have built andsold businesses or built and failed businesses.
It won't do it any justice.
It's like if you've ever been to the GrandCanyon or been to the mountains or been to some
(21:52):
amazing place and you took a picture on yourcell phone and you sent it to someone, And then
later that night, you're looking back at yourpictures, and you're like, well, well, that
picture, that doesn't that doesn't do it anyjustice at all, dude.
The mountains were insane.
I was standing there.
Like, this picture, even on the most legitiPhone or most legit, you know, Nikon can't
(22:15):
like, it doesn't do it any justice.
You have to be there.
You have to live through it.
You have to be in it in the trenches.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, will prepare youfor how insanely hard it is to keep a business
alive.
And I'm just talking about keeping it alive.
I'm not even talking about making itsuccessful, printing money, putting money in
(22:41):
your pocket as the owner, building your dreamhouse because you have so much extra money
laying around.
Like, I cannot put it into words.
And so so, Tom, your taste, your first job thatwent south, that is the smallest taste ever
(23:01):
into a never ending buffet of ball kickingsthat you are going to experience if you decide
to go build a business for yourself.
It is I'm a put this on a t shirt.
It is a never ending buffet of ball kickingsday one, day two, day three, day four, forever.
(23:26):
Forever.
Until you sell the company, until you shut thedoors of the company, until you hand the keys
of the company off to the next generation, itis a endless buffet of ball kickings.
And so I just say that to say, be very carefulwhat you want out of your life.
(23:48):
Be very careful.
If you got a great job, if you've got a greatboss, if you've got great income, if that
allows you the lifestyle you want, that's not abad thing.
Some people chase something, and they chase it,and they chase it, and they chase it forever,
and it only brings pain to their life.
(24:08):
It only brings stress.
It only brings, like, more sorrow.
Now, Tom, you strike me as a guy that maybe youcan't breathe without starting something and
trying something big.
And if your partner's on board with that, yourlife partner, then great.
Go do it.
But man, I just have to say because I see somany people think it's gonna be easier than it
(24:30):
is.
Dude, the thirty or forty or fifty grand youlost on your first Cory job is nothing.
And I and I don't mean to sound insensitive.
It's nothing.
It's nothing.
I must I I mean, I in the grand scheme ofbusiness, I run very small businesses in the
grand scheme of business.
(24:54):
Thirty, forty grand?
Like, that's that's two tires on a haul truckthat we blew yesterday, and and we did.
Those that's a real thing.
You know, those that's a a repair on a bucketof a loader.
And I know you know this because you've been inand around equipment.
You've ran projects.
(25:15):
Like, wait till you lose your first million andthen your second million.
And then one day when you get these bigcommercial jobs and you get a bond called or
the GC goes under and you're a sub and theyscrew you out of 4,000,000.
It is a never ending buffet of ball kickings.
(25:40):
The stress only gets greater.
The climb only gets harder.
The people problems only stack up more.
And every once in while, you look around, yougo home, you pour a glass of wine or a glass of
bourbon, if that's your thing, and you sit onthe couch and you wonder, Am I insane?
Am I really this dumb to be voluntarily takingplate after plate from the buffet of ball
(26:09):
kickings?
Am I really this dumb?
You will ask yourself that.
So when those times come, play this podcastback and remember, I told you so.
Now that's the part you're gonna hate.
Here's the part you might like.
If you have no choice, if you're committed toit, if you're like, man, you know what?
This is my path.
(26:29):
I can build it.
I can do it.
I don't wanna regret something someday.
My wife is on board.
I've got the talents.
I can do my current job in my sleep.
I'm legit.
All the things.
Tom, I'm assuming all you check all theseboxes.
Here's what I would do if I were you.
What I hear from you is you need a little bitof security.
(26:51):
You like the paycheck coming in every week.
You like the salary because you have a wife tosupport.
I don't know if you got kids or not, but you'vegot bills.
You've got a wife.
You're like all of us.
You can't just go without a paycheck.
Starting a business is a risky endeavor.
And not only do you need a paycheck to keepcoming in the door, which means you're paying
yourself as the owner, which by the way, ifyou're the owner, you get paid last, not paid
(27:14):
first.
But on top of all that, you need somecollateral.
You're in the heavy equipment space, Tom, andso you're gonna need equipment.
You're gonna need charge accounts at differentstores.
Like you're going to need some working capital.
Beyond just your paycheck every week, you'regonna need some working capital.
(27:35):
You're gonna need a line of credit.
You're gonna need some credit from the rentalcounters when you need to go rent a skid steer
or a backhoe, whatever.
If I'm you, Tom, knowing what very little Iknow about you, here's what I would do.
This is a creative solution.
I don't know if this works in your currentenvironment.
I would approach your current boss.
(27:59):
I would approach him after you've given him alot of thought.
I would approach him after you've put a lot ofhomework into what I'm about to say, and I
would sit him down.
Maybe he's the owner of the company.
Maybe he works for the owner.
I don't know who the boss is or what the orgchart looks like.
If you can get to the owner of your currentcompany, I would sit him down and I would make
(28:20):
the pitch of your life.
And I would tell them, I'm legit.
I'm a young guy.
I've got a family.
I've got a dream to build something, and I needa partner.
I need an investor.
I need some working capital.
I need the security of a paycheck while I ambuilding this dream.
(28:43):
And the guy's gonna look at you like you'reinsane.
He's gonna be like, what are you talking about?
You're an employee of mine.
Why would I why would I go into business withyou to compete against our current business
that you're working in currently?
And the response is, because I'm a winner andI'm going to make you money.
(29:05):
And if I quit tomorrow and leave your company,I am no longer making you money.
Owners, especially if they're savvy and they'vebuilt it themselves, like if they're first
generation entrepreneurs, they know when theyhear the pitch of a lifetime when to believe in
someone.
They know it because they were in that spot atone time.
Might've been thirty years ago, but these guysdon't forget that.
(29:29):
If they think you're as legit as you think youare, and if you can make a good compelling
pitch, and if you give him enough equity, andif he feels like he can bet on you, he'll keep
paying your check.
He'll help you set up a line of credit, ofwhich he will help guarantee.
(29:54):
He will help you get your start, and what youwill do for him is pay him back way more than
you ever currently would as an employer.
If you give him twenty, thirty, 40, even 50%equity in a company that you go make
successful, you're worth way more to him thanyou are as an employee.
(30:14):
I don't know how much money you make right now,Tom, but I'm guessing for his company, you're
bringing in, you know, $3.04, $500,000 a yearfor your efforts.
Maybe if you're a legit PM, maybe it's morelike a million bucks a year.
If legit, again, don't know you that well.
A million bucks a year is nothing when you talkabout owning twenty, thirty, 50% of a company
(30:40):
that's doing $5.10, $1,520,000,000 a year andis profitable.
And so again, if this is a smart owner, if hebelieves in you, he'll keep your paycheck
coming.
He'll help offer the security that you'relooking for.
Now he's gonna make you put your own skin inthe game.
Right?
He'll probably say, well, you know, I'm notgonna pay you your current salary.
(31:04):
I'm gonna I'm gonna cut it back a little bit.
He'll say, I'm gonna charge you interest, andit's gonna be expensive interest on any bank
loans you have to go get together.
I mean, again, if he's savvy, he's gonna makeyou pay your pound of flesh.
But man, if if you don't have any other optionsand you can't dive headfirst by yourself
(31:27):
because you don't have a line of credit, youdon't have any collateral, the bank's not gonna
lend you a million bucks for equipment, That'sa pretty decent option.
Now you're giving up equity.
You're bringing in a partner into the business.
But is the partner, and I talked about this wayback in another episode, you have to go search
for it, is the partner going to make youbetter?
(31:49):
If your boss is legit, and I think those wereyour words, you said he's legit, if he's a
great boss, is he a great business partner?
Will he make your business better?
Will he help you avoid mistakes?
Will he want to bet on you?
And I don't mean bet on you once.
I mean bet on you every single day becausethat's what business partners have to do to
(32:13):
each other.
It's not just you bet on each other once whenyou get into business.
Like, the best day of a business owner's lifeis the day they start a business.
That's exciting.
It's fun.
You come up with a logo.
You come up with a name.
That's the best that's the best day.
That's the easiest day.
A business is kinda like a boat.
The best day of a boat owner's life is the daythey buy the boat and the day they sell the
(32:40):
boat.
The best day of a business owner's life is theday they start the business and the day they
sell the business.
It's the best day.
So you need a partner that is going to bet onyou every single day.
When times get tough, when you need morecapital, when you need some bank forgiveness,
(33:04):
when you're gonna miss covenants, like whencash flow is tight and you need some cash flow
to help cover payroll.
Like this, if I'm you, Tom, knowing what Iknow, this is an option.
The alternative is, and this is I'm less of afan of this, but people do it.
(33:24):
And a lot of people do this you know, in otherindustries, specifically like tech startups and
so on.
They find an investor.
And the problem with an investor in what youwanna do, Tom, is this is a very capital
intensive business.
And if your investor doesn't understand thisbusiness, they're not gonna make you better.
(33:52):
They're gonna make you worse.
A lot of peep and I've watched this happen.
A lot of people, they'll go get an investor andthey wanna start a dirt moving company or a
construction company, and they don't realizehow poor the cash flow is.
Investors want their money back and they wannamake interest on their money.
That's why they invest it.
They wanna make a return on their investedcapital.
(34:15):
And what a lot of people don't realize is ittakes ten, fifteen, sometimes twenty years for
these small startup, heavy civil, blue collarcompanies to figure out how to become positive
cash flow, figure out how to print money,Figure out how to pay dividends to the owners.
(34:37):
Like, it doesn't happen in year one, two,three, four, five.
It does not happen.
It won't happen.
You will not be paying yourself and your otherowners massive dividend checks in the first
five years, unless you just are way more legitthan I think and have a customer lined up that
(34:58):
it's going to print margin.
It's really, really hard.
And that's why I think if you go find aninvestor who doesn't know the space, doesn't
know the industry, doesn't know how tough thecash flows are, doesn't know how capital
intense it can be when you need a new machineor you need more machines.
(35:19):
Like, I've talked about this a lot, especiallyon season one, the cash flow episode.
Like, not only do you have to float payrollevery week, your fuel suppliers want paid in
fifteen days.
Your equipment bills, you know, especially ifthey're, you know, equipment finance payments,
like debt service payments, they come out onthe first month every month, whether you run
(35:42):
the machine or not, whether the machine's brokedown or not.
The rental bills, sure, you can stretch arental dealer out, you know, thirty, sixty,
ninety days in some cases, but you better havesome goodwill if you're not paying them for
three months.
Otherwise, they're gonna come pick the machinesup.
So you got all this cash outflow.
Meanwhile, customers, especially in our space,are doing more now than are doing more now more
(36:06):
than ever to stretch their subcontractors outon payment.
You're not getting paid in thirty days.
So if you're not getting paid in thirty days,you got all these other bills stacked up in
thirty days.
What are you doing for cash flow?
And it's again, margin's the only way to ever,you know, counterbalance this because if you go
(36:27):
factor invoices, you're giving up margin.
Like there's a lot of nuances to this, Tom.
I'm sure dove into some of this.
But having an investor that doesn't understandtheir payback period and how difficult that can
be, I think you're gonna get the wronginvestor.
And then that is going to lead to the wrongdecisions, the wrong actions.
(36:48):
You're gonna take shortcuts because you owesomebody money.
It's just you need someone, in my opinion, ifyou really wanna go build something that's
sustainable, 's around for generations, it'snot just a quick money grab, you need someone
that's a true business partner with skin in thegame that's gonna make you better.
It's what I did.
(37:09):
It's worked okay for me.
It's a guy that believes in me, believes in theindustry, believes in the story, and I believe
just as much in him.
We are yin and yang.
We think differently.
We act differently.
We talk differently.
We have different circles of of people in ournetworks, but it works.
We we've got a lot of belief in each other.
(37:30):
If he were a loan shark or just some randominvestor sitting in Naples, Florida some way,
it would've never worked.
It wouldn't.
I'm just telling you from experience, itwouldn't have worked.
And he knows the same from me.
If he were just some venture capital investorand didn't know the business, didn't know how I
operate, what you know, the wild person I amthat shares everything on a podcast or shares
(37:54):
everything on LinkedIn, like, he it would havenever worked for him.
So you gotta find that balance.
You gotta find that partner.
Just like finding a spouse, just like findingsomeone to make a happy marriage, you gotta
find the right person to make a happy business.
And I think for you, that's what I would do.
But man, staying one foot in, one foot out isonly going to cause problems.
(38:20):
I know you hate to hear it.
A lot of people think they can kinda thread theneedle.
They can keep one foot in and spend the platesover here in their day job, then they can one
foot in over here and spend the plates.
Building anything from the ground up takes 110%focus, effort, determination, energy, takes
(38:42):
everything you have.
Everything you have and more.
It's gonna take everything you have for a longtime.
And just when you think you've given everythingyou have to your new business, guess what?
It's gonna take a little bit more.
Just when you think, man, I don't have anywhereelse left to go.
I'm credit card maxed out, credit card debt,personal debt, I've taken on loans.
(39:03):
It's gonna take more.
The the reason your buddy, who's anentrepreneur, was frustrated that you gave up
is because he has seen dude, you you're justgetting started.
Like, you you lost $40, $30, $50.
We're just getting started, And people thathave gone through it know that.
(39:25):
I'm sure that's why he got frustrated.
And I'm sure that's why you got scared.
You're like, woah, wait a second.
I'm supposed to make $30, not lose $30.
It's gonna take more.
Just when you think you're out and you've gotnothing left, just when you think you can't
make payroll or your credit cards are maxedout, it's gonna take more.
(39:48):
And it takes creativity.
Okay.
You max out one credit card.
Are you in?
All in, pot committed?
If so, go open a new credit card.
Go sell some of the crap in your house.
Sell some of your guns.
Sell your truck.
HELOC your home.
I mean, I'm not advocating for any of this, bythe way.
(40:10):
I'm just answering the question of what I woulddo if I'm in your situation and I can't breathe
because I need to start a company.
If I'm you, I wouldn't HELOC my home.
I wouldn't leverage my truck and sell all myguns.
I would either, A, be super happy for thecurrent life I'm living in my day job and enjoy
(40:34):
that and try to climb that ladder, have mypeace of mind when I clock out at 05:00, have
my paycheck in the mail every Friday, I wouldeither do that path or I would go all in.
I would bet the farm.
I would get someone who can be a great businesspartner, who can make me better, and I would
(40:56):
chase the dream, this crazy dream that I havein my mind.
But I would only do it if I burn all the ships.
Burning the ships is a is a term that, youknow, way back in the day, Vikings, pirates,
armies would use when they landed their shipson the beach to to to go to battle, to go to
(41:17):
war.
They burned their own ships, meaning there's nothere's no way out.
There's no backup plan.
We either kill the enemy here on this island orthe enemy kills us.
We don't have a backup plan.
So that's what I would do.
I know that is scary.
(41:40):
I know on one hand, staying in your day job isboring.
It doesn't help you scratch the itch of beingan entrepreneur.
You'll never know what it was like to have asuccessful business.
You don't You know, you're gonna be left withsome level of regret, but it's safe.
On the other end of the spectrum, it's scary.
(42:01):
It's unknown.
It's burning the ships.
It's either dying in the battle and losingeverything, or it's figuring out a way to be
successful.
Even when you get your arm shut off, your leghacked off, like you're you're dying, bleeding
out on the beach, and you're figuring out a wayto win.
That is business.
(42:23):
I I'm eight and a half years in.
A lot of people from the outside look, andthey're like, man, these guys, they've killed
it.
They've won all the contracts they want.
They've got all the equipment.
They've got an influence.
They got a following.
I feel like I'm just just getting started.
I feel like we haven't even scratched thesurface of what we could and should be, and
(42:44):
I've made every mistake you can make.
I've talked about a lot of them.
But I'm also fully, fully aware of what it'sgonna take us to go from where we are to where
I think we can go, and it's gonna take anendless buffet of ball kickings.
And and and the reason I say those are your twooptions is because anywhere in the middle, in
(43:08):
my opinion, is a very painful death.
You can die starting a business.
You can, like, literally burn it all down, andat the end of it all, say, man, what an
experience.
The fall was worth the ride or the ride wasworth the fall.
I'm misquoting my own freaking episodes now.
(43:29):
The ride was worth the fall.
You can die at the end of a business where youhave to shut the doors and you tried everything
and you gave everything and you HELOC ed yourhome, the bank took it all, and you can say,
man, what a ride.
I learned it all.
I learned a ton.
It's painful.
It sucks.
But staying in the middle, the business isnever gonna be what you think, and you're never
(43:49):
gonna kill it in your day job, at least not forvery long.
Maybe you can for a chapter, but you're justspreading yourself too thin.
I know people that are starting a businessright now that are in their day job, one foot
in their day job, and they're doing it longenough to get their side thing off the ground.
And if you can make that work, great.
(44:10):
Make a believer out of me.
I don't know anyone that's ever made it work,at least not to the fullest extent of the
opportunity they have in either direction.
They they sacrifice in their day job becausetheir mind is focused on their side gig.
And they sacrifice in their side gig becausethey're preoccupied with their day job.
(44:32):
They're taking meetings and doing things intheir day job when they could be all in pot
committed to their side gig.
Now I know it takes dipping into your savings.
I mean, all the things, but man, that's mytake.
That's my opinion.
I I think first and foremost, as I said, youknow, making sure that your life partner is
(44:53):
along for the ride and bought in, that's that'sfoundational.
That's number one.
You have to go check that box before you everlook for another business partner.
Look for the life partner to be bought.
Because if they're not, the second things gethard Like when you have to make payroll and you
have no money and you figure out a way to makepayroll, guess who doesn't get paid?
(45:16):
You don't get paid.
And guess what that means for your wife?
It means she doesn't get paid.
She doesn't have any money to spend, and she'sgotta tighten her belt at the grocery store,
and she doesn't get to go on the trip with thegirls and get her nails done and blah blah
blah.
Like, you have to be in sync, there's gonna besome really bad times, that's the sacrifice you
(45:39):
make for building the life of your dream.
So I don't know if that was helpful.
I know it was kinda morbid, but I think youhave a really interesting path, and I'd love to
hear from you, Tom.
I wanna follow-up to this one, however long ittakes.
I'll wait a year if I have to.
I'd love to hear what you decide.
And if you can make me look like an idiot bykilling it in your day job and building your
(46:01):
side hustle, I would love nothing more than tobe made to look like an idiot on my own
podcast.
I would love it.
I really would.
Or if you decide, you know what?
I'm gonna go approach my current employer.
I'd love that too.
Would love to hear how that goes.
There are a couple people that I know that ifthey would approach me with the right pitch and
(46:23):
the right strategy and the right business toget into, I might say yes.
You know, I might say yes.
I'd have to know what the terms look like andall that, but there are people that I believe
in, and at one point in time, there were peoplethat believed in me.
And so, yeah, who's to say it doesn't work out?
(46:44):
That's what I got.
I pray that you're killing it.
I I just shipped my wife, actually, Shelby,just shipped a big batch of mugs off.
Some of you guys that have been waiting, theyare coming.
We do have a few left.
I know I keep saying this.
I haven't actually counted.
There's some left.
If you still want one, you can get one.
(47:06):
We got our hundredth this is a shout out.
I wanna give a shout out.
We got our hundredth podcast review on thepodcast app, and the hundredth reviewer was
mister Val Beekley, and he gets a free Purdiumpodcast mug.
I just shipped it this morning, Val.
So thanks for all your thanks for all yourvideos.
(47:27):
I don't think anyone has sent as many videos,shirtless or not, as Val has.
So thanks for all the videos, brother.
Praying for you and what you're going through.
Rest of you guys, pray you're killing it.
Pray you're getting your per diem and whateverthat looks like in your world and your life.
Pray that this little experiment we just didwith the 12 of audio from Tom, that was as
(47:52):
close as I've gotten to a call in.
I record these things so sporadically that thecall in show just hasn't worked.
But if you, like Tom, have something going onin live, send a send me a audio message.
You can literally click a button on your phoneand record your audio just like he did in his
truck.
You can send me a video.
(48:14):
You can send me a voicemail.
Send me something to the Purdium hotline.
Those of you guys that have, I'm getting tothem.
I promise I'm getting to them.
Purdium hotline's 980 (980) 737-3436.
I'd love to hear from you.
Love to figure out how to try to help give youmy perspective.
Some of you guys are gonna hate my answer.
(48:36):
Some of you guys are going to throw up when Igive you my very intense opinion on your life,
but I don't know how else to do it.
So, Tom, I pray you're not throwing up at that.
I hope that was somewhat helpful in some way,shape, or form, and I cannot wait to hear the
(48:56):
follow-up.
See you tomorrow.
Hey, Keaton.
This is Thomas Steele.
I've never left a voice memo before, so I surehope this goes okay.
I'm actually in my f one fifty.
Just got done driving a job site up north andnow headed back south of the house, so I sure
hope this audio is okay.
But hope you're having a good day, man.
(00:25):
I just finally caught up with all your podcastsyesterday and been enjoying those.
So I just started up Jab Jab Jab Right Hook byGary Vaynerchuk today.
And, so I'm working my way through all of yourawesome book recommendations.
I listened to Elon Musk book a while back.
(00:45):
And so, man, just wanted to tell you, I'mreally enjoying your podcast.
I sent you a text a while back just to kindalet you know very lightly, you know, what kinda
good it's done in my own life, You know, allthe topics that you bring up about Christian
menly leadership and, you know, relationshipswith our wives has really, really helped me
(01:11):
and, you know, spurred all some goodconversations with my wife.
We actually both listened together to the firstpodcast with Shelby, and so I think like a lot
of the other guys and listeners' wives, we bothreally loved it, and of course that spurred on
some good conversations of its own.
So, Keith, you're doing some real good outthere, man, and I hope that you keep it up.
(01:36):
You know, I really think you're doing a lot ofgood, you know, these guys' lives and, you
know, just kinda giving us a good light to, youknow, just keep fighting through each day.
So, man, I, you know, I suppose, you know, partof the reason for the call today was to let you
know, you know, what a great guy you are, andthen the other part of the call is to, you
(02:00):
know, just kinda let you talk out a little bitabout a way that I feel like I'm being lukewarm
in my life right now, and the good Lord callsus to, you know, be hot and heavy in one
direction and to not be and to not be lukewarm.
So but anyways, I feel like I've been bad inthat in that aspect here lately.
(02:22):
So I guess I'll lay it out just a little bit.
I actually started up a business three yearsago, and I had a business partner, he was my
brother-in-law, and we got into a quarryingoperation a couple states away, and we went
out, you know, bid on this project, we wereawarded it.
(02:47):
It was supposed to be a four week long gig, sowe put together the whole package, people,
equipment, resource, etcetera.
Went out to this guy's quarry, did our work,what was supposed to be a four week project
turned out to be a seven week project.
We had equipment issues, every differentdirection.
(03:08):
The environment was really hard because it waswintertime up at the mountains, and we had a
really tough time getting our way through thatproject.
Similarly to you, I heard your first projectwas a $30,000 loss.
My first project was also pretty near a $30,000loss, I think a little bit higher.
(03:33):
And I came out of that project feeling prettypeony.
So we wrapped up the job.
We hadn't been awarded anything else we couldbunny hop the guys onto next.
We ended up sending the guys home.
That was a bit heartbreaking.
And then spent close to a month bidding onother projects and weren't ever getting any
(03:59):
hits.
As part of the losses on the project, I hadactually taken on some personal credit card
debt, and I was pretty close to being maxed outon my credit card.
My wife and I at the time were talking aboutmoving out of her parents' house, where we were
living at the time, to save money, and movinginto another family member's house, into a rent
(04:24):
to own situation, and I was very fearful atthat point in time because I had not admitted
to my wife the personal debt that hadaccumulated during the business losses, and I
was fearful that she would be disappointed inme, and I was fearful that we wouldn't be able
to move into a house together, And, I felt sickto my stomach.
(04:51):
I made a few bad decisions.
I ended up telling my business partner that Iwanted to close the doors and go back to work
so I could start getting an income backtogether and get my life back on track
financially wise.
He was not a fan of that.
He wanted me to push through.
He himself was an entrepreneur, business ownerthat had experience in the real bad days, Death
(05:14):
Valley, as you like to call it.
I was in a state of mind where I just was notable to hear that.
I think I disrespected him and didn't give himthe time of day that he deserved to try and
sway me, you know, back into fighting anotherday.
And, ultimately, talked it out with my wife anddecided to close the doors on the business and
(05:40):
actually went back to my previous employer.
They very graciously brought me back.
So I spent a year and a half, maybe two years,just in shambles, basically, about, you know,
what all had gone down and how I felt like I'dfailed my wife and my family and everybody that
(06:03):
worked for me, and just really not wanting togo back into business again, being pretty
aberrant to the idea.
Even had a few other opportunities come up anddecided to say no to those.
Violent came clean to my wife about the debt.
That was not a fun experience, but that was, ina way, a good thing.
(06:26):
You know, God works in mysterious ways that ledus into a 12 step bible study, sort of like AA,
but more for, you know, Christian, you know,redemption and getting out of addictions and
hardships.
And so my wife and I went through that programsimultaneously.
(06:48):
They were men's groups and women's groups, andthat, you know, gave us a lot more Christian
community and grew our relationship together.
And I feel like in the end now, we have astronger marriage than we ever had before.
So that is great.
Praise God.
So now, here I am right at three years after Iinitially quit my full time job to go into
(07:19):
business for myself, and I've now started upthe new LLC, where I basically started it real
lightly and gently thinking, you know, hey, Iget all these cool small construction
opportunities, and I'm going to just try and,you know, take advantage of some of those, and,
(07:43):
you know, try and see if I could do some smallprojects on the side.
Well, that kinda accidentally blew up into abigger thing, and now all of a sudden, I'm
bidding these larger projects, and I was justawarded a, you know, pretty good sized job
that's gonna take a good few weeks, and I'mputting together a crew and some equipment to
go out and do this project, all the while Istill have my full time job.
(08:08):
And so I'm, you know, working very diligentlyfor my employer, who's great, and I have a
great boss, and I'm also now working verypassionately on this, what was supposed to be a
side hustle, and is now turning into somethingbigger a lot quicker than I ever thought it was
going to.
(08:29):
And my wife is by my side cheering me on, doingthings differently now and being very open with
her every step of the way.
I call her my CFO because I run every financialdecision by her now, which I think is just
great.
I don't have a business partner.
(08:49):
It's just only mine they admit it, and it'sonly my money running it now rather than
someone else's money.
And I'm feeling very lukewarm.
I have one foot in the door of my employer, andI have one foot in the door of my own small
business, and I focus very hard on one at atime, and so I'll spend three days working real
(09:13):
hard for my employer, and then I'll spendanother day working real hard on my thing, and
all the while, I'm working hard on one, I'mletting the thing slide on the other, and I
feel like God called me to be a lot moreheadstrong and dedicated into one thing at a
time, and I feel like I'm doing somethingwrong, though I don't know what it is exactly.
(09:40):
I'm very passionate about this new business.
I really like putting together constructiondeals, and I love winning projects.
Therefore, I feel as if I wanna continueforward in my own small business even at the
detriment of my own full time job, though I donot wanna give up the salary until I have a
(10:08):
more structured revenue stream and incomecoming in from the side business, where I would
actually be able to step into that full time.
So, I'm transition in period, and I'm trying topray through it, and I'm trying to talk through
it all with my wife every step of the way andmake sure that I'm making decisions that she's
(10:31):
comfortable with, all the while, you know,trying to keep things going on both ends of my
life now.
And so that's where I'm at, man.
Feel like the right, you know, really the rightanswer would be to go in one end or the other
(10:56):
full force and not be, you know, two legs ateach door like I am right now.
But I don't wanna lose my income, and I reallywanna be in business for myself, and so I'm
keeping on going this way.
So anyways, man, I, you know, thank you forbeing a open ear, and, man, I'm continuing to
(11:21):
pray for you and your family.
Y'all are definitely in me and my wife'sprayers, and I really hope things go well for
your mom.
Anyways, Keaton, man, it's a Thursday evening.
Hope you've got things teed up for a greatFriday and a good weekend.
And yeah, man.
(11:43):
Enjoy your time.
Thank you again for listening.
Bye bye.
54321.
Welcome back to the premium podcast.
Hey.
How you start is how you finish.
How you finish like nine to five.
Stand on business.
Stand on business.
Here's the ketchup.
You gonna need a village.
(12:04):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
We ain't got no limits.
We ain't got no limits.
I have an answer.
I have an opinion.
Shocker.
I know that's gonna surprise some folks.
I've got an answer.
I know how we get through this.
Tom?
(12:26):
Oh, man.
Welcome back to the Per Diem podcast.
I am still Keaton Turner, and this is what Ilive for.
I I mean, first of all, I I have been a big fanof Tom Steele.
And I, you know, I've known Tom from afarvirtually Instagram stuff for years, And and I
(12:53):
always knew you know, I followed Tom back inthe day.
I always knew.
I was like, man, this dude's this dude's like asharp up and comer.
He's he's somebody that's got it.
Every once in a while, I'll I'll run acrosssomeone.
I'm like, man, I think they've got I thinkthey've got, like, the it factor.
I don't know Tom well enough to know if he'sgot the it factor.
But clearly, your employer thinks you've gotthe it factor, Tom, because he took you back
(13:18):
after you left him.
That was a that was I think that was twelve anda half minute audio message from Tom Steele.
I love it.
I love a guy that is young, humble, openenough, real enough to be transparent about
(13:39):
their failures, their flaws, not only thebusiness the little business scurfluffle you
found yourself in.
That's nothing compared to a marriagescurfluffle.
And if you don't know what scurfluffle is, golook that word up.
Business issues are easy when you compare it toa marriage issue.
(14:00):
So the fact that you guys worked through that,man, Tom, that's that's the win right there.
The you know, if the marriage is stronger forgoing through all that BS, there is a silver
lining to every terrible failure in life.
But I I appreciate the heck out of you sharingthat audio.
I know for a fact, without even having to sayany names, I know for a fact, there are dozens
(14:27):
of dudes that listen to that twelve minuteaudio message and were nodding their heads.
They were nodding their heads.
They were in the exact same spot.
They've tried something.
It didn't work.
They took a new job.
They they tried to open their own business.
They got sideways.
(14:48):
They they couldn't quit digging.
They, you know, they dug themselves into ahole.
They didn't know how to get out of the hole.
Maybe they lied about it a little bit or toldsome white lies.
There are dozens of dudes who I know are in thesame spot or have been in the same spot.
I know it.
(15:09):
I have an answer for you, Tom.
And I don't know if this answer is gonna workfor your life.
I don't know if this is gonna get you whatyou're looking for.
But first and foremost, I just wannaacknowledge the fact that that you're as as raw
and transparent as real as you are.
That, my friend, I think is one of the winningingredients in life.
(15:30):
I think your transparency, your willingness toown your BS, your willingness to own your
mistakes, your failures, your shortcomings,like I I think that is one of the foundational
fundamental principles to being successful longterm in life.
So bravo, my friend.
You're you're on the right path.
(15:51):
Here's my answer.
Some of this you're gonna hate.
Some of this you maybe haven't thought about,and some of this you might love.
I think first and foremost, obviously, I thinkyou've realized this by now.
It goes without saying, your partner, and bypartner, I mean your wife, should be treated
(16:14):
like a partner.
I I screwed this one up.
I screwed this one up multiple times when I wasbuilding my business.
I would get home.
I would have a bad day.
Know, sell days is what I used to call them.
I'd have a bad day.
I had a massive business failure, you know, abig loss.
Somebody, you know, got fired or somebody quiton me, and I wouldn't tell my partner about it.
(16:39):
I wouldn't tell Shelby about it.
I I would compartmentalize it all.
I would shove it deep down.
And I still struggle with this, by the way.
And I would treat her like my wife.
And what a husband does, you know, at least alegit husband, what a legit husband does is he
protects his wife from all the bad stuff.
(17:01):
He doesn't want her to hear about the businessfailing.
He doesn't wanna tell her about the credit carddebt that's racking up as he's trying to build
his dreams.
He doesn't he doesn't want her to worry aboutthat.
She's got her own stuff to worry about.
Why would I pile I'm supposed to be theprovider.
I'm supposed to be the strong one.
Why would I tell her all the things that arescrewed up in my business today or the areas
(17:22):
that I failed as a leader today or the badthoughts that I'm having today?
Why would I tell her that?
That's just gonna that's just gonna make hermore anxious, more nervous, more scared.
So I did what a lot of young guys in businessdo, and we didn't talk about it.
I didn't tell her about it.
I was like, ah, that's good.
(17:43):
I got it.
We're fine.
Business is fine.
Money is fine.
My mental state is fine.
If she's your partner in life, she's yourpartner in business.
Whether she you know, whether she's a physicaloperating partner in the business doing actual
business work or not, if she is your partner inlife, she's your partner in business.
(18:05):
And that is one of the hardest things that I'velearned as I've built our business.
Some of our biggest marriage fights have beenover the fact that I didn't wanna share and
didn't wanna, like, pour my heart out over mybad days, And and I wanted to keep it all
separate.
I wanted to keep our marriage separate from ourbusiness, our family separate from, you know,
(18:31):
the challenges in work.
And so, you know, to me, I had to realize, andI'm again, I'm preaching to myself.
I still struggle with this one.
If she's your partner in life, she's yourpartner in business.
Sounds like you've already got that figuredout, Tom, but some somebody probably doesn't
have that figured out and needed to hear thatlittle piece.
(18:52):
No matter if you're chasing the the career paththing, climbing the corporate ladder, or if
you're building your own business, she wants toknow.
She wants to know.
Now if your wife's listening to this, don't useeverything he's about to tell you as ammo.
(19:13):
And and the women know what I mean when I saythis.
If he's gonna open up to you and share hisdeep, dark feelings and bad days and and
worries and stresses and financial pressure,he's gonna share all that with you.
Don't throw it back in his face when the timingis convenient for you, when you're in an
argument, when you're mad, when he's trying to,you know, make you not spend so much money or
(19:37):
whatever.
Don't don't throw it back at him because I canpromise you he'll never share anything with you
again if you do.
So I had to say that.
So, Tom, that's the that's kind of the firstfundamental foundational thing I would say is
if she's if she's your partner in life, yougotta treat her like a partner in business.
(19:57):
I I just I I firmly believe this now afterlearning this lesson multiple times over over
the course of the last eight years.
The second thing I'll tell you, and you mighthate this, I I have never one time met someone
who killed it at their day job and killed it attheir side hustle.
(20:19):
I've never met them.
If someone out there is killing it at their dayjob and killing it on your side hustle, please
reach out to me.
980 I'd love to hear from you.
I've never met someone that kills it at theirday job and has enough energy and mental
capacity and creativity and stamina to go killit in a side hustle.
(20:41):
And and and if your side hustle's makingfriendship bracelets, okay.
That doesn't take a ton.
If your side hustle is actually trying to builda business, I don't know how you can do it with
one foot in your day job and one foot in yourbusiness.
I I don't even think you can do it two feet inyour business.
I think it is a full blown headfirst dive intobusiness if you're gonna have any fighting
(21:07):
chance to make it successful.
This is the part you're gonna hate, Tom.
People underestimate how insanely hard it is tokeep a business alive.
People underestimate it.
People and and you'll hear all my words on thispodcast for, you know, however many episodes we
(21:30):
do, the 175 that we've done.
It it won't do it any justice.
You can read all the books.
You can listen to all the podcasts.
You can go talk to mentors who have built andsold businesses or built and failed businesses.
It won't do it any justice.
It's like if you've ever been to the GrandCanyon or been to the mountains or been to some
(21:52):
amazing place and you took a picture on yourcell phone and you sent it to someone, And then
later that night, you're looking back at yourpictures, and you're like, well, well, that
picture, that doesn't that doesn't do it anyjustice at all, dude.
The mountains were insane.
I was standing there.
Like, this picture, even on the most legitiPhone or most legit, you know, Nikon can't
(22:15):
like, it doesn't do it any justice.
You have to be there.
You have to live through it.
You have to be in it in the trenches.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, will prepare youfor how insanely hard it is to keep a business
alive.
And I'm just talking about keeping it alive.
I'm not even talking about making itsuccessful, printing money, putting money in
(22:41):
your pocket as the owner, building your dreamhouse because you have so much extra money
laying around.
Like, I cannot put it into words.
And so so, Tom, your taste, your first job thatwent south, that is the smallest taste ever
(23:01):
into a never ending buffet of ball kickingsthat you are going to experience if you decide
to go build a business for yourself.
It is I'm a put this on a t shirt.
It is a never ending buffet of ball kickingsday one, day two, day three, day four, forever.
(23:26):
Forever.
Until you sell the company, until you shut thedoors of the company, until you hand the keys
of the company off to the next generation, itis a endless buffet of ball kickings.
And so I just say that to say, be very carefulwhat you want out of your life.
(23:48):
Be very careful.
If you got a great job, if you've got a greatboss, if you've got great income, if that
allows you the lifestyle you want, that's not abad thing.
Some people chase something, and they chase it,and they chase it, and they chase it forever,
and it only brings pain to their life.
(24:08):
It only brings stress.
It only brings, like, more sorrow.
Now, Tom, you strike me as a guy that maybe youcan't breathe without starting something and
trying something big.
And if your partner's on board with that, yourlife partner, then great.
Go do it.
But man, I just have to say because I see somany people think it's gonna be easier than it
(24:30):
is.
Dude, the thirty or forty or fifty grand youlost on your first Cory job is nothing.
And I and I don't mean to sound insensitive.
It's nothing.
It's nothing.
I must I I mean, I in the grand scheme ofbusiness, I run very small businesses in the
grand scheme of business.
(24:54):
Thirty, forty grand?
Like, that's that's two tires on a haul truckthat we blew yesterday, and and we did.
Those that's a real thing.
You know, those that's a a repair on a bucketof a loader.
And I know you know this because you've been inand around equipment.
You've ran projects.
(25:15):
Like, wait till you lose your first million andthen your second million.
And then one day when you get these bigcommercial jobs and you get a bond called or
the GC goes under and you're a sub and theyscrew you out of 4,000,000.
It is a never ending buffet of ball kickings.
(25:40):
The stress only gets greater.
The climb only gets harder.
The people problems only stack up more.
And every once in while, you look around, yougo home, you pour a glass of wine or a glass of
bourbon, if that's your thing, and you sit onthe couch and you wonder, Am I insane?
Am I really this dumb to be voluntarily takingplate after plate from the buffet of ball
(26:09):
kickings?
Am I really this dumb?
You will ask yourself that.
So when those times come, play this podcastback and remember, I told you so.
Now that's the part you're gonna hate.
Here's the part you might like.
If you have no choice, if you're committed toit, if you're like, man, you know what?
This is my path.
(26:29):
I can build it.
I can do it.
I don't wanna regret something someday.
My wife is on board.
I've got the talents.
I can do my current job in my sleep.
I'm legit.
All the things.
Tom, I'm assuming all you check all theseboxes.
Here's what I would do if I were you.
What I hear from you is you need a little bitof security.
(26:51):
You like the paycheck coming in every week.
You like the salary because you have a wife tosupport.
I don't know if you got kids or not, but you'vegot bills.
You've got a wife.
You're like all of us.
You can't just go without a paycheck.
Starting a business is a risky endeavor.
And not only do you need a paycheck to keepcoming in the door, which means you're paying
yourself as the owner, which by the way, ifyou're the owner, you get paid last, not paid
(27:14):
first.
But on top of all that, you need somecollateral.
You're in the heavy equipment space, Tom, andso you're gonna need equipment.
You're gonna need charge accounts at differentstores.
Like you're going to need some working capital.
Beyond just your paycheck every week, you'regonna need some working capital.
(27:35):
You're gonna need a line of credit.
You're gonna need some credit from the rentalcounters when you need to go rent a skid steer
or a backhoe, whatever.
If I'm you, Tom, knowing what very little Iknow about you, here's what I would do.
This is a creative solution.
I don't know if this works in your currentenvironment.
I would approach your current boss.
(27:59):
I would approach him after you've given him alot of thought.
I would approach him after you've put a lot ofhomework into what I'm about to say, and I
would sit him down.
Maybe he's the owner of the company.
Maybe he works for the owner.
I don't know who the boss is or what the orgchart looks like.
If you can get to the owner of your currentcompany, I would sit him down and I would make
(28:20):
the pitch of your life.
And I would tell them, I'm legit.
I'm a young guy.
I've got a family.
I've got a dream to build something, and I needa partner.
I need an investor.
I need some working capital.
I need the security of a paycheck while I ambuilding this dream.
(28:43):
And the guy's gonna look at you like you'reinsane.
He's gonna be like, what are you talking about?
You're an employee of mine.
Why would I why would I go into business withyou to compete against our current business
that you're working in currently?
And the response is, because I'm a winner andI'm going to make you money.
(29:05):
And if I quit tomorrow and leave your company,I am no longer making you money.
Owners, especially if they're savvy and they'vebuilt it themselves, like if they're first
generation entrepreneurs, they know when theyhear the pitch of a lifetime when to believe in
someone.
They know it because they were in that spot atone time.
Might've been thirty years ago, but these guysdon't forget that.
(29:29):
If they think you're as legit as you think youare, and if you can make a good compelling
pitch, and if you give him enough equity, andif he feels like he can bet on you, he'll keep
paying your check.
He'll help you set up a line of credit, ofwhich he will help guarantee.
(29:54):
He will help you get your start, and what youwill do for him is pay him back way more than
you ever currently would as an employer.
If you give him twenty, thirty, 40, even 50%equity in a company that you go make
successful, you're worth way more to him thanyou are as an employee.
(30:14):
I don't know how much money you make right now,Tom, but I'm guessing for his company, you're
bringing in, you know, $3.04, $500,000 a yearfor your efforts.
Maybe if you're a legit PM, maybe it's morelike a million bucks a year.
If legit, again, don't know you that well.
A million bucks a year is nothing when you talkabout owning twenty, thirty, 50% of a company
(30:40):
that's doing $5.10, $1,520,000,000 a year andis profitable.
And so again, if this is a smart owner, if hebelieves in you, he'll keep your paycheck
coming.
He'll help offer the security that you'relooking for.
Now he's gonna make you put your own skin inthe game.
Right?
He'll probably say, well, you know, I'm notgonna pay you your current salary.
(31:04):
I'm gonna I'm gonna cut it back a little bit.
He'll say, I'm gonna charge you interest, andit's gonna be expensive interest on any bank
loans you have to go get together.
I mean, again, if he's savvy, he's gonna makeyou pay your pound of flesh.
But man, if if you don't have any other optionsand you can't dive headfirst by yourself
(31:27):
because you don't have a line of credit, youdon't have any collateral, the bank's not gonna
lend you a million bucks for equipment, That'sa pretty decent option.
Now you're giving up equity.
You're bringing in a partner into the business.
But is the partner, and I talked about this wayback in another episode, you have to go search
for it, is the partner going to make youbetter?
(31:49):
If your boss is legit, and I think those wereyour words, you said he's legit, if he's a
great boss, is he a great business partner?
Will he make your business better?
Will he help you avoid mistakes?
Will he want to bet on you?
And I don't mean bet on you once.
I mean bet on you every single day becausethat's what business partners have to do to
(32:13):
each other.
It's not just you bet on each other once whenyou get into business.
Like, the best day of a business owner's lifeis the day they start a business.
That's exciting.
It's fun.
You come up with a logo.
You come up with a name.
That's the best that's the best day.
That's the easiest day.
A business is kinda like a boat.
The best day of a boat owner's life is the daythey buy the boat and the day they sell the
(32:40):
boat.
The best day of a business owner's life is theday they start the business and the day they
sell the business.
It's the best day.
So you need a partner that is going to bet onyou every single day.
When times get tough, when you need morecapital, when you need some bank forgiveness,
(33:04):
when you're gonna miss covenants, like whencash flow is tight and you need some cash flow
to help cover payroll.
Like this, if I'm you, Tom, knowing what Iknow, this is an option.
The alternative is, and this is I'm less of afan of this, but people do it.
(33:24):
And a lot of people do this you know, in otherindustries, specifically like tech startups and
so on.
They find an investor.
And the problem with an investor in what youwanna do, Tom, is this is a very capital
intensive business.
And if your investor doesn't understand thisbusiness, they're not gonna make you better.
(33:52):
They're gonna make you worse.
A lot of peep and I've watched this happen.
A lot of people, they'll go get an investor andthey wanna start a dirt moving company or a
construction company, and they don't realizehow poor the cash flow is.
Investors want their money back and they wannamake interest on their money.
That's why they invest it.
They wanna make a return on their investedcapital.
(34:15):
And what a lot of people don't realize is ittakes ten, fifteen, sometimes twenty years for
these small startup, heavy civil, blue collarcompanies to figure out how to become positive
cash flow, figure out how to print money,Figure out how to pay dividends to the owners.
(34:37):
Like, it doesn't happen in year one, two,three, four, five.
It does not happen.
It won't happen.
You will not be paying yourself and your otherowners massive dividend checks in the first
five years, unless you just are way more legitthan I think and have a customer lined up that
(34:58):
it's going to print margin.
It's really, really hard.
And that's why I think if you go find aninvestor who doesn't know the space, doesn't
know the industry, doesn't know how tough thecash flows are, doesn't know how capital
intense it can be when you need a new machineor you need more machines.
(35:19):
Like, I've talked about this a lot, especiallyon season one, the cash flow episode.
Like, not only do you have to float payrollevery week, your fuel suppliers want paid in
fifteen days.
Your equipment bills, you know, especially ifthey're, you know, equipment finance payments,
like debt service payments, they come out onthe first month every month, whether you run
(35:42):
the machine or not, whether the machine's brokedown or not.
The rental bills, sure, you can stretch arental dealer out, you know, thirty, sixty,
ninety days in some cases, but you better havesome goodwill if you're not paying them for
three months.
Otherwise, they're gonna come pick the machinesup.
So you got all this cash outflow.
Meanwhile, customers, especially in our space,are doing more now than are doing more now more
(36:06):
than ever to stretch their subcontractors outon payment.
You're not getting paid in thirty days.
So if you're not getting paid in thirty days,you got all these other bills stacked up in
thirty days.
What are you doing for cash flow?
And it's again, margin's the only way to ever,you know, counterbalance this because if you go
(36:27):
factor invoices, you're giving up margin.
Like there's a lot of nuances to this, Tom.
I'm sure dove into some of this.
But having an investor that doesn't understandtheir payback period and how difficult that can
be, I think you're gonna get the wronginvestor.
And then that is going to lead to the wrongdecisions, the wrong actions.
(36:48):
You're gonna take shortcuts because you owesomebody money.
It's just you need someone, in my opinion, ifyou really wanna go build something that's
sustainable, 's around for generations, it'snot just a quick money grab, you need someone
that's a true business partner with skin in thegame that's gonna make you better.
It's what I did.
(37:09):
It's worked okay for me.
It's a guy that believes in me, believes in theindustry, believes in the story, and I believe
just as much in him.
We are yin and yang.
We think differently.
We act differently.
We talk differently.
We have different circles of of people in ournetworks, but it works.
We we've got a lot of belief in each other.
(37:30):
If he were a loan shark or just some randominvestor sitting in Naples, Florida some way,
it would've never worked.
It wouldn't.
I'm just telling you from experience, itwouldn't have worked.
And he knows the same from me.
If he were just some venture capital investorand didn't know the business, didn't know how I
operate, what you know, the wild person I amthat shares everything on a podcast or shares
(37:54):
everything on LinkedIn, like, he it would havenever worked for him.
So you gotta find that balance.
You gotta find that partner.
Just like finding a spouse, just like findingsomeone to make a happy marriage, you gotta
find the right person to make a happy business.
And I think for you, that's what I would do.
But man, staying one foot in, one foot out isonly going to cause problems.
(38:20):
I know you hate to hear it.
A lot of people think they can kinda thread theneedle.
They can keep one foot in and spend the platesover here in their day job, then they can one
foot in over here and spend the plates.
Building anything from the ground up takes 110%focus, effort, determination, energy, takes
(38:42):
everything you have.
Everything you have and more.
It's gonna take everything you have for a longtime.
And just when you think you've given everythingyou have to your new business, guess what?
It's gonna take a little bit more.
Just when you think, man, I don't have anywhereelse left to go.
I'm credit card maxed out, credit card debt,personal debt, I've taken on loans.
(39:03):
It's gonna take more.
The the reason your buddy, who's anentrepreneur, was frustrated that you gave up
is because he has seen dude, you you're justgetting started.
Like, you you lost $40, $30, $50.
We're just getting started, And people thathave gone through it know that.
(39:25):
I'm sure that's why he got frustrated.
And I'm sure that's why you got scared.
You're like, woah, wait a second.
I'm supposed to make $30, not lose $30.
It's gonna take more.
Just when you think you're out and you've gotnothing left, just when you think you can't
make payroll or your credit cards are maxedout, it's gonna take more.
(39:48):
And it takes creativity.
Okay.
You max out one credit card.
Are you in?
All in, pot committed?
If so, go open a new credit card.
Go sell some of the crap in your house.
Sell some of your guns.
Sell your truck.
HELOC your home.
I mean, I'm not advocating for any of this, bythe way.
(40:10):
I'm just answering the question of what I woulddo if I'm in your situation and I can't breathe
because I need to start a company.
If I'm you, I wouldn't HELOC my home.
I wouldn't leverage my truck and sell all myguns.
I would either, A, be super happy for thecurrent life I'm living in my day job and enjoy
(40:34):
that and try to climb that ladder, have mypeace of mind when I clock out at 05:00, have
my paycheck in the mail every Friday, I wouldeither do that path or I would go all in.
I would bet the farm.
I would get someone who can be a great businesspartner, who can make me better, and I would
(40:56):
chase the dream, this crazy dream that I havein my mind.
But I would only do it if I burn all the ships.
Burning the ships is a is a term that, youknow, way back in the day, Vikings, pirates,
armies would use when they landed their shipson the beach to to to go to battle, to go to
(41:17):
war.
They burned their own ships, meaning there's nothere's no way out.
There's no backup plan.
We either kill the enemy here on this island orthe enemy kills us.
We don't have a backup plan.
So that's what I would do.
I know that is scary.
(41:40):
I know on one hand, staying in your day job isboring.
It doesn't help you scratch the itch of beingan entrepreneur.
You'll never know what it was like to have asuccessful business.
You don't You know, you're gonna be left withsome level of regret, but it's safe.
On the other end of the spectrum, it's scary.
(42:01):
It's unknown.
It's burning the ships.
It's either dying in the battle and losingeverything, or it's figuring out a way to be
successful.
Even when you get your arm shut off, your leghacked off, like you're you're dying, bleeding
out on the beach, and you're figuring out a wayto win.
That is business.
(42:23):
I I'm eight and a half years in.
A lot of people from the outside look, andthey're like, man, these guys, they've killed
it.
They've won all the contracts they want.
They've got all the equipment.
They've got an influence.
They got a following.
I feel like I'm just just getting started.
I feel like we haven't even scratched thesurface of what we could and should be, and
(42:44):
I've made every mistake you can make.
I've talked about a lot of them.
But I'm also fully, fully aware of what it'sgonna take us to go from where we are to where
I think we can go, and it's gonna take anendless buffet of ball kickings.
And and and the reason I say those are your twooptions is because anywhere in the middle, in
(43:08):
my opinion, is a very painful death.
You can die starting a business.
You can, like, literally burn it all down, andat the end of it all, say, man, what an
experience.
The fall was worth the ride or the ride wasworth the fall.
I'm misquoting my own freaking episodes now.
(43:29):
The ride was worth the fall.
You can die at the end of a business where youhave to shut the doors and you tried everything
and you gave everything and you HELOC ed yourhome, the bank took it all, and you can say,
man, what a ride.
I learned it all.
I learned a ton.
It's painful.
It sucks.
But staying in the middle, the business isnever gonna be what you think, and you're never
(43:49):
gonna kill it in your day job, at least not forvery long.
Maybe you can for a chapter, but you're justspreading yourself too thin.
I know people that are starting a businessright now that are in their day job, one foot
in their day job, and they're doing it longenough to get their side thing off the ground.
And if you can make that work, great.
(44:10):
Make a believer out of me.
I don't know anyone that's ever made it work,at least not to the fullest extent of the
opportunity they have in either direction.
They they sacrifice in their day job becausetheir mind is focused on their side gig.
And they sacrifice in their side gig becausethey're preoccupied with their day job.
(44:32):
They're taking meetings and doing things intheir day job when they could be all in pot
committed to their side gig.
Now I know it takes dipping into your savings.
I mean, all the things, but man, that's mytake.
That's my opinion.
I I think first and foremost, as I said, youknow, making sure that your life partner is
(44:53):
along for the ride and bought in, that's that'sfoundational.
That's number one.
You have to go check that box before you everlook for another business partner.
Look for the life partner to be bought.
Because if they're not, the second things gethard Like when you have to make payroll and you
have no money and you figure out a way to makepayroll, guess who doesn't get paid?
(45:16):
You don't get paid.
And guess what that means for your wife?
It means she doesn't get paid.
She doesn't have any money to spend, and she'sgotta tighten her belt at the grocery store,
and she doesn't get to go on the trip with thegirls and get her nails done and blah blah
blah.
Like, you have to be in sync, there's gonna besome really bad times, that's the sacrifice you
(45:39):
make for building the life of your dream.
So I don't know if that was helpful.
I know it was kinda morbid, but I think youhave a really interesting path, and I'd love to
hear from you, Tom.
I wanna follow-up to this one, however long ittakes.
I'll wait a year if I have to.
I'd love to hear what you decide.
And if you can make me look like an idiot bykilling it in your day job and building your
(46:01):
side hustle, I would love nothing more than tobe made to look like an idiot on my own
podcast.
I would love it.
I really would.
Or if you decide, you know what?
I'm gonna go approach my current employer.
I'd love that too.
Would love to hear how that goes.
There are a couple people that I know that ifthey would approach me with the right pitch and
(46:23):
the right strategy and the right business toget into, I might say yes.
You know, I might say yes.
I'd have to know what the terms look like andall that, but there are people that I believe
in, and at one point in time, there were peoplethat believed in me.
And so, yeah, who's to say it doesn't work out?
(46:44):
That's what I got.
I pray that you're killing it.
I I just shipped my wife, actually, Shelby,just shipped a big batch of mugs off.
Some of you guys that have been waiting, theyare coming.
We do have a few left.
I know I keep saying this.
I haven't actually counted.
There's some left.
If you still want one, you can get one.
(47:06):
We got our hundredth this is a shout out.
I wanna give a shout out.
We got our hundredth podcast review on thepodcast app, and the hundredth reviewer was
mister Val Beekley, and he gets a free Purdiumpodcast mug.
I just shipped it this morning, Val.
So thanks for all your thanks for all yourvideos.
(47:27):
I don't think anyone has sent as many videos,shirtless or not, as Val has.
So thanks for all the videos, brother.
Praying for you and what you're going through.
Rest of you guys, pray you're killing it.
Pray you're getting your per diem and whateverthat looks like in your world and your life.
Pray that this little experiment we just didwith the 12 of audio from Tom, that was as
(47:52):
close as I've gotten to a call in.
I record these things so sporadically that thecall in show just hasn't worked.
But if you, like Tom, have something going onin live, send a send me a audio message.
You can literally click a button on your phoneand record your audio just like he did in his
truck.
You can send me a video.
(48:14):
You can send me a voicemail.
Send me something to the Purdium hotline.
Those of you guys that have, I'm getting tothem.
I promise I'm getting to them.
Purdium hotline's 980 (980) 737-3436.
I'd love to hear from you.
Love to figure out how to try to help give youmy perspective.
Some of you guys are gonna hate my answer.
(48:36):
Some of you guys are going to throw up when Igive you my very intense opinion on your life,
but I don't know how else to do it.
So, Tom, I pray you're not throwing up at that.
I hope that was somewhat helpful in some way,shape, or form, and I cannot wait to hear the
(48:56):
follow-up.
See you tomorrow.
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