March 30, 2025 • 36 mins
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Andy Garrett (@bluecollarandy) starts us off with a couple great questions.
Debt is always a big hurdle in business.. do you take a little, a lot, or none?
And I give an update on when I’m launching my mastermind group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Ketan, how are doing?
I had a question for you I wanted to get youropinion on.
And the question is, how do you think aboutdebt, and how do you leverage it for growth?
Would love to get your opinion.
Would love to get your take on that.
And then the second thing, have you considereddoing a mastermind group?
(00:24):
You charge x amount of dollars per month, andyou give access to ten, fifteen, 20 guys, meet
once or twice a month over a Zoom call, and, wejust get access to you.
We get to ask you questions.
We get to learn from you.
You know, the podcast is great, but oftentimes,I listen to a podcast, and I'm like, I got 20
questions for this guy.
(00:45):
How do I get access to him?
So think about it.
Pray about it.
Let me know if you'd be open to something likethat.
But we'd love
to get your take on debt, and then also wouldlove to figure out how to get more access to
you even if I gotta pay for it.
So appreciate you.
Love what you're doing, and, wanna figure outways to support you.
(01:06):
Have a great weekend.
See you.
Keaton.
I've been blowing through the money like you'rethrowing cheese.
I've been Welcome back to the Purdue andPodcast.
I'm Keaton Turner.
So great to have you back.
(01:26):
That was a guy that I've followed for a whilenow, and I know I always get a kick out of
getting messages from people.
I always get a kick out of it.
I just opened up my Instagram, and I waslistening to a video message from from Caden
(01:47):
Cope.
Sent me a happy birthday message, so thank youfor that, Caden.
I love getting you guys have heard me say this.
I love getting for some reason, I don't knowwhy.
I don't know.
It's it's a weird thing.
I love getting video messages from peoplebecause if you take the time out of your day to
video yourself as a full grown man talking intoa camera and then you send it to another full
(02:12):
grown man, I don't know.
I think it says something about you.
I think you're self confident.
I don't know.
I think it's I think it's really cool.
So that was Andy Garrett.
Garrett Excavating.
I've followed Andy now for a while.
I think he is really cool guy, smart guy, andkind of an excavating business owner,
(02:32):
excavating business coach.
He started a dirt crew community where, youknow, you could you can join this community
and, and get some, you know, tips and tricks ofthe trade from other like minded folks like
Andy.
And so, Andy, appreciate the message, brother.
I still wanna jump into the dirt crew sometimeand, and chat with some of your guys.
(02:54):
Would love to.
So thanks for the invite on that.
Before I jump into Andy's message, let me giveyou guys a download, a quick download of what
I've been doing today.
Saturday, beautiful Saturday.
It was like 75 degrees.
I Gant and I are coaching our five year olds incoach pitch.
(03:19):
They don't even call it t ball anymore becauseit's not a t, but coach pitch little league
baseball.
First practice was this morning at 08:30AM.
That was Gant's choice.
Gant is the head coach, and so he scheduledpractice at 08:30AM on a Saturday.
I was a little disgruntled when I got up, andthat was what I had to do, but we had a blast.
It was a lot of fun.
(03:41):
Our kids loved it.
And then after that, it was it was just anormal some of my best Saturdays are when I get
to spend it in the garage.
I'm a normal guy.
My garage has been a disaster for the lasteight months, six months, whatever it's been,
all winter long.
And so it's I got to spend it in the garagejust cleaning stuff up.
(04:03):
I started a fire out back, burning some woodand brush and random things, and it was just a
very chill Saturday.
Got to watch some basketball this afternoon orthis evening.
Just watched that crazy Florida game.
And if you couldn't see Florida coming backfrom being 10 down with two minutes left, if
(04:24):
you couldn't put two massive bets on Florida tocome back, I can't help you.
If you couldn't see that, I don't know what totell you.
I could see, like, crystal clear.
They they got down, and Florida was, like,getting a point and a half.
I was like, yeah.
Lock that in.
Then they got down nine.
(04:45):
They were getting five and a half or sixpoints.
I was like, that is a no brainer, and they endup, you know, they end up winning.
So so that was fun, and tucked the kids in bed,and I told my wife I you know, Shelby's like,
man, I'd love to finish these games in bed,finish watching these basketball games in bed,
I should clarify.
(05:06):
And I said, awesome.
You go, jump in bed.
I gotta I I realized I forgot, and I gottarecord a podcast.
So here I am.
Oh, sorry.
Big drink of water.
So thanks again for all the birthday wishes.
Thanks to Andy for this message.
(05:27):
His message was how do I think about debt?
I'm gonna try to make this one as quick as Ican tonight.
You guys can probably tell with my voice.
It's a little raspy.
I got killed by allergies today with all thedust in my garage and all the pollen.
The the hood of my truck was green, and I'vegot a shiny black truck.
(05:48):
The hood of my truck was green with all thepollen floating around, and I allergies kill
me.
So I'm a little I'm a little dry, a littlelittle congested, a little stuff stuffed up,
but, I'll get through it.
So, Andy, you know, you're first of all,awesome question.
I think everyone in the dirt dirt world has todeal with this.
(06:08):
Right?
Debt.
We're in an asset heavy business.
Yellow iron is expensive.
And it's not only expensive to buy it.
It's also expensive to maintain it.
It's expensive to break it when it fixes.
You know, I I've said this many times.
The only thing more expensive than a beautifulwoman is a beautiful tractor.
And depending on the brand, it can be reallyexpensive.
(06:33):
And so for me, I'll give you my background.
I grew up with with never having a loan of anysort.
I started working you know, I started mowingyards when I was 10.
I guess you could say I started myentrepreneurial journey when I was 10, and then
from there on, I had a job.
I've had a job nonstop from there on.
(06:54):
I worked on a farm, and then I, you know, didthe mowing thing, and then I worked for another
excavating guy, and then I worked for my unclefor ten years.
I never had a a loan.
I had a savings account.
I didn't have a checking account until probablycollege.
(07:16):
So I had a savings account, and and I was cashwith everything.
I'd buy trucks with cash.
I would buy guns, and, you know, I just I neverhad a loan.
Never needed a loan.
I didn't even have a new my first new vehicle Ibought last year.
I'm 35 years old.
And so I just was never one of these guys thatwas about debt.
(07:38):
I took the Dave Ramsey courses, you know, cashis king.
You know, I I just never wanted any debt.
You know, the borrower is slave to the lender.
And and then I start my business.
Right?
And you don't know what you don't know.
I'm a I'm a young dumb guy thinking aboutmoving dirt.
(07:58):
And, you know, of course, I'd been in thebusiness with my uncle and I had learned, you
know, man, you gotta use credit, you gotta usebanks, you gotta do all these things.
But I didn't know how important that was untilI started my own business.
And that's when I realized banks runeverything.
Like, period.
I can't tell you know, there there arepoliticians, and then there are bankers, and
(08:23):
then there's everyone else.
And it is so critical if you're gonna be anentrepreneur or run, you know, run a business.
Banking relationships might be I would probablygo on a limb and say might be the most
important piece of your business, which iswild.
Right?
Because you're a dirt mover.
Yeah.
I don't have time to go talk to bankers.
(08:44):
I I'm not I'm not gonna go eat dinner with thisguy or get coffee or that's the beauty of me
having the partner I had in Gant.
Gant knew this.
Right?
His he knew this from his family being inbusiness and, you know, scaling different
businesses, and I just I didn't have a clue.
Hold on.
I got I got someone walking in here on me.
(09:07):
Give me a quick pause.
What are you doing, Kate Bug?
Five years old, and she still comes downstairsevery once in while.
Just needs an extra hug before bed.
That was the beauty of me having a partner thatreally understood this piece, and he I think
one of Gantt's superpowers is his you know, thethe relationships and how he thinks about
(09:31):
relationships in banking.
He knows this probably better than anyone, atleast anyone in my circle.
It's so critical.
Right?
You never know when you need capital.
You never know when you need a line of creditincrease.
You you never know when you wanna buy or or,you know, bolt on an acquisition to your
company.
And so, you know, money making money movesreally comes down to how well do you know your
(09:56):
banker?
How well does your banker know your business?
It's critical.
My dad has got this funny thing he always said,and my dad's a no debt guy.
Right?
He's he's owned his business for thirty years.
He's, you know, he's very conservative.
You know, could could have could have scaledand grown his business multiple times over.
(10:19):
His customers asked asked him to do it, he wasjust like, no.
I'm good.
I I got my I got my things that I like.
I don't need a bunch of headache.
And so but he always said, he was like, look.
If you owe the bank a million bucks, the bankowns you.
If you owe the bank a hundred million bucks,you own the bank.
(10:40):
And, you know, obviously, there's a lot ofbankers that would roll their eyes to that, but
there is some kind of ironic truth in that, youknow, especially when I was early in business,
you know, you you realize I would rather useOPM than MPM.
(11:01):
I would rather use other people's money, OPM,than my people's money.
And there is some strategy behind that, Right?
Especially, you wanna talk about risk.
I'm not gonna get into all the details of that.
Andy, if you wanna talk about that sometimeprobably in a less public setting than what I'm
(11:26):
than what I'm in here.
Would love to tell would love to talk strategyand talk shop around around debt, but here's
how I think about it.
If I can borrow a million bucks and thatmillion bucks can produce $2,000,000 in
revenue.
Right?
I gotta pay the million bucks back plusinterest.
(11:48):
Let's say it's 10% interest just for roundnumbers.
So I gotta pay 1.1.
And this, I'm I'm I'm not doing, you know,annualized over a certain number.
I'm getting very, very simple here, watering itdown.
I borrow a million bucks.
I owe the bank back 1,100,000.0, a hundredthousand in interest.
If I can make 2,000,000 with it, I've produced900,000 in margin for myself using other
(12:17):
people's money.
Now if I don't borrow the million and Ibootstrap it and I say, you know what?
I'm gonna use my own 250,000, but that 250,000returns me 250,000, right?
I double.
It's the same thing, right?
I borrow a million.
(12:37):
I make a million.
I use my $2.50.
It makes me $2.50 or makes me 500.
I'm not paying the interest, but I'm notgetting anywhere near the juice on the other
side of it.
So on my scenario where I borrowed a milliondollars and I paid the bank a hundred thousand
(13:00):
in interest, that's a lot of interest.
Paying a thousand paying a hundred thousanddollars in interest, oh, man, that's painful.
But I made 900 k with that strategy.
If I'm using my own 250,000 because that's whatI've got laying around in cash and it makes me
500, well, I've only netted 250,000.
I didn't have to pay any interest, but I didn'tnet I didn't net anywhere near as much as I
(13:25):
would have if I had borrowed some of the money.
And and I don't have enough time to go throughall the details.
Right?
There's down payments.
There's there's all kinds of games you canplay, whether it's off balance sheet debt, on
balance sheet debt, leasing.
You know, for me, I'm a huge fan of rentals,huge fan of rentals, especially early in
(13:46):
business.
We didn't buy a machine until I think we werethree or four years in, four years in.
But I I mean, I'm I'm at this stage of mycareer, I'm massively, massively pro debt.
Massively pro debt.
And there's one reason, and and really onereason only.
(14:08):
I believe in my circumstances, our organizationhas so much opportunity out in front of it to
grow and capture the market share here in TheUnited States that there is to capture.
There's so much opportunity for us that if Idon't use debt, I'll never capture anywhere
(14:31):
near the size of market share I think we can.
If I only use my own money, my own profits, theprofits generated by the company, if I'm just
using my own cash, we're gonna grow veryslowly.
We're going to miss opportunity afteropportunity, and we're not going to achieve our
mission, which is very simple, make the miningindustry a better place.
(14:57):
I think we could be a thousand employees nextyear.
We we could be a thousand employees in eighteenmonths.
It's gonna require me to use some otherpeople's money.
Now I pay them I pay them handsomely for it.
Right?
I've I've got 12% interest debt.
I've got 5% interest debt.
I've got 3% interest debt.
(15:18):
I'm happy to pay the interest if it allows meto go capture those opportunities because those
opportunities don't last forever.
Right?
They're we're gonna I'm putting a packagetogether right now, $40,000,000.
You know, between 30 and $40,000,000, dependingon how we structure it and and what all we end
up buying in this fleet.
(15:40):
But it's a massive opportunity with a lot ofzeros on the end.
I know this 30,000,000, 40 million dollars indebt's gonna return a massive return.
If we didn't go that route and we were muchmore conservative and we were, you know, no
debt, the no debt strategy, the cash is kingstrategy, of course, it's less risky, but we
(16:04):
never would get this opportunity.
And so what this I'm I'm basically trading timeat this point.
When I and this is kinda how I'm thinking aboutdebt.
I'm trading time.
Right?
I am using other people's money now, payinginterest, putting some risk on the balance
(16:27):
sheet.
Right?
It's a million dollar a month debt servicepayment in in this situation, but I have a
massive opportunity, massive contract, massivecustomer, that I think makes the next thirty
years of my life different.
And so I've said every you know, I've said thisfrom day one.
(16:48):
You can go back and listen to podcasts and readmy post from, eight years ago.
I'm taking big swings.
It's just how I am.
It's it's how I'm wired.
You know, I'm on this earth to play at thehighest level, and and that's just what I wanna
do.
That freaks other people out.
(17:08):
Right?
A million dollar a month debt service is is iscrazy.
Right?
I gotta pay the bank a million dollars everymonth just on this one package, not not
including all the other things the business, isrequiring to run on.
And so, you know, again, it's you're justtrading time.
Do I do I wanna go get these opportunities nowor do I wanna take the next thirty years to
(17:29):
grow into these opportunities using my ownmoney to fund operations and so on and so
forth?
So it's just it's a little different way ofthinking about it, but I would never compare my
situation to someone digging trenches orsomeone digging foundations or someone digging
commercial parking lots.
Rental is an amazing strategy.
(17:53):
And and quite frankly, I mean, to be honestwith you, I don't know if I've ever really said
this.
We did $40,000,000 a year in business with allrental gear.
So I don't want to hear people say, well, Ican't grow with rentals.
Like, want to grow.
I want to put money back in my pocket.
I want to own the machine.
Dude, I'm telling you, we did 40,000,000 Someof our Some of the most Let me phrase this
(18:20):
using correct English, which I struggle withsometimes.
One of our highest margin years was when we hadall rental gear.
By by percentage, highest margin percentage,net margin was using rental gear.
(18:41):
Now it takes a strategy, takes a structure,takes some you know, you gotta know what you're
doing.
You can't pay the rental companies forunderutilized hours and underutilized machines.
And I mean, there's so many ways you can getkilled on rentals.
But again, you can you can make really goodmoney renting machines.
So I don't think you have to go into debt.
(19:02):
Andy, I'd love to go in more detail with withwith you on this because I've lived both.
Right?
I've been no debt and and rental and built abusiness that way, and it was awesome.
And I kinda thought we'd always be a businesswith with no debt and only rentals, and it
(19:22):
turns out it's just not.
It's not the direction we end up going for alot of reasons.
Right?
COVID threw a wrench in things.
Rental rental gear just disappeared.
Right?
These these, oh, these equipment dealers werenot holding on to rental fleets.
A lot of the reason was because people weretrying to buy the machines because there was no
(19:43):
new machines coming in.
Right?
All the factories shut down.
And so COVID threw a wrench in some of ourrental strategy.
But then there was bonus depreciation that camearound and and there's a whole tax strategy.
So there's just a ton of nuance.
I don't wanna I don't wanna paint with a broadstroke and get someone in trouble, and they're
like, hey, Keaton told me to go take in debt.
(20:03):
Now I'm now they took my house.
I you know, that you gotta know what you'redoing, but but that's how I think about it.
So, Andy, sometime when you wanna get moredetailed, and and I don't know if enough people
get value out of this on this podcast, we canjump in to more detail on the debt thing,
sometime when I have more time.
Pause.
Let me get some water here.
(20:29):
Talking about 40,000,000 equipment packagesmakes me thirsty.
And let's see, Andy, what was your secondquestion?
Oh, the mastermind.
So I'm always gonna tell you straight what's onmy mind and and, you know, there's very little
filter here.
I try not to get myself in trouble, but I don'thave a tremendous filter at this stage of my
(20:52):
life yet.
I'm not a mastermind guy.
I'm just not.
I don't think I'm I'm probably not intelligentenough.
My brain just doesn't think that way.
You know?
I'm oddly enough, I do not do things to make afew dollars.
That's kind of it's kind of the blessing andthe curse of being a guy that takes big swings
(21:18):
is is if it's if the dollars just aren't acertain level, it's just not I just don't get
excited, you know?
It's it's one of the reasons why I haven't solda t shirt or a hat or a a coffee mug or
anything that says Purdium on it yet.
It's just, you know, okay, I can make I canmake a few hundred bucks selling, you know?
(21:42):
We spend I I make this joke with my buddies.
You know, a guy will lose $10 on the golfcourse or something, and I'll be like, dude, I
spent $10 on bottled water yesterday for ourcruise across the country.
And I don't say that to brag.
It's just it's it's really hard for me to putany amount of effort and time into a mastermind
(22:10):
course when I don't think it would be I justdon't think it would be worth my time.
Now here's what I would tell you.
It's not worth my time if I'm trying tomonetize it.
It's totally worth my time if I'm just gettingenjoyment out of it.
I feel like I'm helping other people.
I feel like I'm help I feel like I'm achievingmy mission of why I'm here on earth.
(22:31):
That's why I'm doing this podcast.
I don't make a dime off of it, but I feel likeI'm, you know, hope hopefully, you know,
achieving some of my mission here on Earth andhelping other people, and I get some enjoyment
out of it, and I I love getting the commentsback.
I love it fuels my it fuels my ego, but it alsofuels my passion for this industry when I hear
(22:53):
people and when I get video messages of guyslike, dude, this changed my business.
What you said yesterday, I applied and we didthis, and I get tons of enjoyment out of it.
So so a mastermind is not something that wouldwork for me personally.
What would work for me is is something that'sjust fun.
(23:15):
It's not a job.
Right?
I've already got a job.
I do in full transparency, it's gonna sound alittle bit sleazy.
I do random consulting calls every so often.
Very rare.
And I don't even do them from the Turner MiningGroup brand, if you will.
I just I have people that reach out.
(23:37):
They reach out through a few networks that I'ma part of, and these are consulting networks.
And and I started doing them during COVIDbecause because again, that was that was like a
thing.
It just kinda started popping up.
I gotta I gotta ask to do them all the time.
And I started, and my fee was $250 an hour.
(23:59):
And I was like, dude, this is amazing.
I get on a phone call for an hour and they sendme $250.
It's a no brainer.
Well, I did it for a while, and I was like,man, I don't think this is worth $250.
I gotta talk to these guys.
They don't know what they're talking about.
They're not even asking the right questions.
I'd love to help them.
(24:20):
Like, I'd love to sit in a room all day.
I could actually help them get what they want.
They're not even asking the right questions.
These people don't have a clue.
And so I started I I upped my fee to 500.
I was like, look.
If they pay me 500, it's worth it.
And that worked for a while.
They they were like, oh, man.
I don't know.
500.
We don't have many many people at $500, butwe'll we'll do it.
(24:43):
And the calls dropped off.
I didn't have as many calls because I'mcharging more money, but but when I did, I
felt, okay, if I'm gonna spend an hour, it'sworth it's worth $500.
And then I would get on these phone calls withsome of these attorneys over the years, right,
whether they were our attorneys or otherpeople's attorneys, and I would listen to them.
(25:06):
And they'd be like, oh, yeah.
Well, I charge $1,100 an hour.
And I'm like, wait a second.
You charge $1,100 an hour for all the thingsyou just said?
That's that's worth $1,100 an hour?
I was blown away.
I was like, you didn't say anything interestingat all.
You didn't say anything that value added.
You you said something that we could have chatGPT'd ourselves.
(25:28):
And so I upped my fee last year to $7.50 anhour.
And I was like, if people call and actuallywanna pay me $7.50 an hour for advice or for my
perspective or for my input, then okay.
It's worth it.
And this is no lie.
I've done, I don't know, I've done a few ofthem, done several of them.
(25:50):
I don't know, maybe a dozen.
At this stage, I don't even enjoy taking thephone calls at $7.50 an hour.
I don't know what the magic number is.
I really don't.
But that's why I say a mastermind would neverwork for me unless them unless it's just, you
know, a thousand people and it all spending,you know, a thousand bucks.
(26:11):
Okay.
Now the numbers start to really, you know, movethe needle.
But but for 20 guys paying me a hundred bucksor something, I just don't think for me, Andy,
I could get excited and then bring the value.
When I bring value I'm I'm one of those weirdguys that When I bring value to other people is
(26:32):
when I'm actually excited about it.
So many times, and my guys have seen this, whenI'm sitting in a meeting and I don't know
anything about the topic, if we're in a systemsmeeting and they're talking about code or
they're talking about a database, like likereally nerdy stuff, and I don't know anything,
I don't talk.
(26:54):
I get on my phone.
I'm on I'm doing emails.
I'm doing I'm doing something else.
And a lot of times, I'll just get up.
I'll be like, hey, guys.
I got other things I can go do.
I'm not adding any value.
And so I don't show up my best if I'm notreally adding value, and I don't really get
excited about the meeting, and that would be myfear with the mastermind.
I follow some of these guys.
(27:15):
Oh, man.
I'm sure you all do.
I you follow some of these guys on onInstagram, and they've got these masterminds,
right, with these these giveaways.
And it's a hundred you know, join join ourmastermind for a hundred bucks and I'll teach
you how to build your business or buy yourbusiness or whatever.
(27:36):
And every single time, if you look at theperson's life who's selling these Masterminds,
every single one of them, their life looks thethings in and around their life looks bigger
than life.
They're materialist.
They're driving Lambos.
They're $100,000 Audemars watches.
(28:00):
They're like it's way over the top.
And I bet you, you could get me to buy yourMastermind if, like, you drove an old camo
truck or something.
You know, some of the most wealthy people Iknow don't spend a dime.
(28:20):
You wouldn't know they're wealthy because theydon't blow it on stupid things like hundred
thousand dollar watches and $400,000 cars thatdepreciate.
Those are stupid financial decisions for themost part.
And so I I gotta ask myself.
I'm like, hey, you're selling a mastermind fora hundred bucks here and there.
(28:41):
Like, a, I can do some simple math here.
You're not generating any real money.
You're not generating anywhere near enoughmoney to afford a Lambo from this.
You do a quick a few quick Google searches.
These people don't even run real businesses.
It's all a scheme.
It's all a it's all a front.
(29:01):
They put on these events where there's like ahundred people show up.
Hey, come to my house.
I follow this one guy.
Let me see if I can find him.
This sounds bad because I actually still followhim.
He was one of the Diesel brothers.
Man, I forget his name.
Some of you guys are gonna know who it was, butjust super flashy over the top stuff.
(29:26):
And I'm like, man, I I it doesn't feel to melike this is genuine.
Doesn't feel to me like this guy actually knowswhat he's talking about and has actually built
a real business.
Sure, you can regurgitate some of the buzzwordsof, you know, IRR is this and ROI is that and
(29:47):
here's how you derisk and, you know, deleverand all these things, you know.
But have you actually built something?
And so I don't know, Andy.
That's probably a little bit of a cynical take.
I just get so much more excitement out ofpeople that are actually in it.
I would, you know, I'll use Kaden Cope becausehe also sent me a video message and he's just
(30:11):
on my brain.
I would never charge Caden Cope a dime if hecalled me and wanted to talk business, if he
wanted to talk about how to scale a businessand how to deal with people problems, and I
would never charge that guy a dime.
I would get so jacked up to talk to him becausehe's a young dude trying to kill it in business
(30:32):
who is the same as me.
I'm a few years ahead, but I was the exact sameguy eight years ago.
And so for me, I would ease I mean, without adoubt, if he called, I'd pick it up.
I don't I don't know his number, but if if ifhe left me a voice mail, I'd call him back, and
I would never ask a dime.
(30:53):
Now the problem with that approach is that Ican't do that for everybody.
I am blown away, and I know some of you guysare waiting patiently.
I am blown away at the number of people thatwant this personal development dashboard.
I'm gonna send it out.
I promise you, I get I get five to 10 newpeople every single day.
So I need I'm gonna have to have my wife orsomebody help me just arrange all these email
(31:18):
addresses.
I'm gonna have to get them in Mailchimp orsomething to distribute this thing.
But I can't talk to that many guys.
Right?
I could talk to Caden, be like once or maybetwice.
I haven't even gotten the people to come onthis show as the guests that I want to yet.
I haven't been able to devote enough time andschedule it and all those things.
And so, you know, that's my that's kinda mythat's kinda my approach to the mastermind
(31:43):
thing.
If Annie, maybe if you could help me figurethat out and if I could get jazzed up about it,
it's just not a money thing.
I couldn't do it for the money and feel excitedbecause I don't have a big enough following to
have enough volume there to make the money areal number, and and I also don't wanna sound
(32:05):
scammy and sleazy and slimy, you know.
I'm shoot.
I'm I'm in the trenches of business figuring itout every single day like a lot of people, and
I'm building it, and I don't really have timeto show other people how to build Maybe in
maybe in twenty years, when I'm done buildingit, I can take time to show other people and
talk about it.
(32:26):
But I you know, just the fact that I'm doingthis podcast every day already takes more time
than I was wanting to spend doing this sort ofthing.
So I don't know if that that's probably soundsI hope my attitude doesn't sound too negative
on that.
And don't I'm not dissing other people that doa mastermind unless you're doing it sleazy.
(32:46):
If you own a Lambo or if you own an Audemars ora Patek, like, if you own some of those things
and are doing a mastermind, I don't know.
It feels wrong.
It feels wrong to me.
It would be like asking Kobe Bryant when he wasalive to do a average Joe's basketball camp
(33:10):
for, like, middle aged guys in church leaguebasketball.
Like like, Kobe Bryant's not wasting his timeteaching you how to shoot free throws.
He's got bigger things to go do.
And if some of these people are so wealthy,they're flying around on jets.
And and and by the way, just to fly around on aprivate jet, I don't think 99% of the people
(33:30):
understand how expensive that is to actuallyfly around on a jet.
I know people worth 9 figures, liquid 9 figuresthat don't fly around on private jets, or at
least not very often.
Maybe they will on a special trip or they'retaking their wife somewhere, but they're not
flexing on private jets hardly ever.
(33:55):
So to see guys in their twenties and thirtiesflying around on private jets with Lambos and
Paytex and it's just it's wild to me.
So that's where I I have a problem with thewith the mastermind course.
But, Andy, I love the video, and I love thatyou reached out.
I still wanna get back in the dirt crew.
I would love to talk to your guys, especiallyif if they get questions around the whole debt
(34:18):
thing.
You know, it's it's a beast, and the more youbuild the beast, the more debt you bring on.
And there's there's trust me, there is gooddebt and there's bad debt.
The good debt is on hard assets.
The bad debt is on I've gotta go raise money tokeep my company alive.
(34:39):
I am only about debt on hard assets becausethen there's some collateral.
Right?
If if if you have to, you get rid of the asset,you pay the you pay the debt off.
No harm, no foul.
If you're raising debt to fund your operationto like like keep the business alive, it's a
(35:00):
really scary place to be.
It's like going into a casino and asking themfor a loan and praying you have a couple good
hands.
And if you have a couple good hands, maybe youpay them back and now you got some house money
to play on.
But if you don't have the good hands, what areyou doing?
How are coming up with the money?
(35:22):
You know, I think there's some strategy to getinto around operating lines of credit, you
know, tied to a borrowing base with somereceivables, or some inventory or some other
things.
There's some there's some cool ways to do that.
But to to put debt on the balance sheet to keepyour company a living tells me there's a lot of
other deeper issues that, you know, youprobably need to go pay attention to before you
(35:47):
you go down that path.
So anyway, hope that was helpful.
I said it was gonna be short.
It's thirty five minutes.
I apologize.
You know how I can get carried away on some ofthese things.
So thank you guys for listening.
I, you know, it's it's always fun.
It's always fun.
It's it's it's not always fun.
(36:07):
It's not always fun.
It's 10:00 on a Saturday night.
I got a gorgeous woman upstairs in my bed.
I got basketball games on.
I got things to go do, but I wanted to try toearn my per diem today.
I hope I did it.
Thanks, Andy, for the for the video message.
Some of you guys that are waiting, send me avideo message.
(36:28):
If you haven't sent one, send one.
And if you haven't left a review, leave me areview.
Thank you.
Pray you're killing it.
I pray you're getting your per diem, and I prayyou tune back in tomorrow.
Thanks, guys.
Tune back in one more day.
(36:53):
Just one more day.
Ketan, how are doing?
I had a question for you I wanted to get youropinion on.
And the question is, how do you think aboutdebt, and how do you leverage it for growth?
Would love to get your opinion.
Would love to get your take on that.
And then the second thing, have you considereddoing a mastermind group?
(00:24):
You charge x amount of dollars per month, andyou give access to ten, fifteen, 20 guys, meet
once or twice a month over a Zoom call, and, wejust get access to you.
We get to ask you questions.
We get to learn from you.
You know, the podcast is great, but oftentimes,I listen to a podcast, and I'm like, I got 20
questions for this guy.
(00:45):
How do I get access to him?
So think about it.
Pray about it.
Let me know if you'd be open to something likethat.
But we'd love
to get your take on debt, and then also wouldlove to figure out how to get more access to
you even if I gotta pay for it.
So appreciate you.
Love what you're doing, and, wanna figure outways to support you.
(01:06):
Have a great weekend.
See you.
Keaton.
I've been blowing through the money like you'rethrowing cheese.
I've been Welcome back to the Purdue andPodcast.
I'm Keaton Turner.
So great to have you back.
(01:26):
That was a guy that I've followed for a whilenow, and I know I always get a kick out of
getting messages from people.
I always get a kick out of it.
I just opened up my Instagram, and I waslistening to a video message from from Caden
(01:47):
Cope.
Sent me a happy birthday message, so thank youfor that, Caden.
I love getting you guys have heard me say this.
I love getting for some reason, I don't knowwhy.
I don't know.
It's it's a weird thing.
I love getting video messages from peoplebecause if you take the time out of your day to
video yourself as a full grown man talking intoa camera and then you send it to another full
(02:12):
grown man, I don't know.
I think it says something about you.
I think you're self confident.
I don't know.
I think it's I think it's really cool.
So that was Andy Garrett.
Garrett Excavating.
I've followed Andy now for a while.
I think he is really cool guy, smart guy, andkind of an excavating business owner,
(02:32):
excavating business coach.
He started a dirt crew community where, youknow, you could you can join this community
and, and get some, you know, tips and tricks ofthe trade from other like minded folks like
Andy.
And so, Andy, appreciate the message, brother.
I still wanna jump into the dirt crew sometimeand, and chat with some of your guys.
(02:54):
Would love to.
So thanks for the invite on that.
Before I jump into Andy's message, let me giveyou guys a download, a quick download of what
I've been doing today.
Saturday, beautiful Saturday.
It was like 75 degrees.
I Gant and I are coaching our five year olds incoach pitch.
(03:19):
They don't even call it t ball anymore becauseit's not a t, but coach pitch little league
baseball.
First practice was this morning at 08:30AM.
That was Gant's choice.
Gant is the head coach, and so he scheduledpractice at 08:30AM on a Saturday.
I was a little disgruntled when I got up, andthat was what I had to do, but we had a blast.
It was a lot of fun.
(03:41):
Our kids loved it.
And then after that, it was it was just anormal some of my best Saturdays are when I get
to spend it in the garage.
I'm a normal guy.
My garage has been a disaster for the lasteight months, six months, whatever it's been,
all winter long.
And so it's I got to spend it in the garagejust cleaning stuff up.
(04:03):
I started a fire out back, burning some woodand brush and random things, and it was just a
very chill Saturday.
Got to watch some basketball this afternoon orthis evening.
Just watched that crazy Florida game.
And if you couldn't see Florida coming backfrom being 10 down with two minutes left, if
(04:24):
you couldn't put two massive bets on Florida tocome back, I can't help you.
If you couldn't see that, I don't know what totell you.
I could see, like, crystal clear.
They they got down, and Florida was, like,getting a point and a half.
I was like, yeah.
Lock that in.
Then they got down nine.
(04:45):
They were getting five and a half or sixpoints.
I was like, that is a no brainer, and they endup, you know, they end up winning.
So so that was fun, and tucked the kids in bed,and I told my wife I you know, Shelby's like,
man, I'd love to finish these games in bed,finish watching these basketball games in bed,
I should clarify.
(05:06):
And I said, awesome.
You go, jump in bed.
I gotta I I realized I forgot, and I gottarecord a podcast.
So here I am.
Oh, sorry.
Big drink of water.
So thanks again for all the birthday wishes.
Thanks to Andy for this message.
(05:27):
His message was how do I think about debt?
I'm gonna try to make this one as quick as Ican tonight.
You guys can probably tell with my voice.
It's a little raspy.
I got killed by allergies today with all thedust in my garage and all the pollen.
The the hood of my truck was green, and I'vegot a shiny black truck.
(05:48):
The hood of my truck was green with all thepollen floating around, and I allergies kill
me.
So I'm a little I'm a little dry, a littlelittle congested, a little stuff stuffed up,
but, I'll get through it.
So, Andy, you know, you're first of all,awesome question.
I think everyone in the dirt dirt world has todeal with this.
(06:08):
Right?
Debt.
We're in an asset heavy business.
Yellow iron is expensive.
And it's not only expensive to buy it.
It's also expensive to maintain it.
It's expensive to break it when it fixes.
You know, I I've said this many times.
The only thing more expensive than a beautifulwoman is a beautiful tractor.
And depending on the brand, it can be reallyexpensive.
(06:33):
And so for me, I'll give you my background.
I grew up with with never having a loan of anysort.
I started working you know, I started mowingyards when I was 10.
I guess you could say I started myentrepreneurial journey when I was 10, and then
from there on, I had a job.
I've had a job nonstop from there on.
(06:54):
I worked on a farm, and then I, you know, didthe mowing thing, and then I worked for another
excavating guy, and then I worked for my unclefor ten years.
I never had a a loan.
I had a savings account.
I didn't have a checking account until probablycollege.
(07:16):
So I had a savings account, and and I was cashwith everything.
I'd buy trucks with cash.
I would buy guns, and, you know, I just I neverhad a loan.
Never needed a loan.
I didn't even have a new my first new vehicle Ibought last year.
I'm 35 years old.
And so I just was never one of these guys thatwas about debt.
(07:38):
I took the Dave Ramsey courses, you know, cashis king.
You know, I I just never wanted any debt.
You know, the borrower is slave to the lender.
And and then I start my business.
Right?
And you don't know what you don't know.
I'm a I'm a young dumb guy thinking aboutmoving dirt.
(07:58):
And, you know, of course, I'd been in thebusiness with my uncle and I had learned, you
know, man, you gotta use credit, you gotta usebanks, you gotta do all these things.
But I didn't know how important that was untilI started my own business.
And that's when I realized banks runeverything.
Like, period.
I can't tell you know, there there arepoliticians, and then there are bankers, and
(08:23):
then there's everyone else.
And it is so critical if you're gonna be anentrepreneur or run, you know, run a business.
Banking relationships might be I would probablygo on a limb and say might be the most
important piece of your business, which iswild.
Right?
Because you're a dirt mover.
Yeah.
I don't have time to go talk to bankers.
(08:44):
I I'm not I'm not gonna go eat dinner with thisguy or get coffee or that's the beauty of me
having the partner I had in Gant.
Gant knew this.
Right?
His he knew this from his family being inbusiness and, you know, scaling different
businesses, and I just I didn't have a clue.
Hold on.
I got I got someone walking in here on me.
(09:07):
Give me a quick pause.
What are you doing, Kate Bug?
Five years old, and she still comes downstairsevery once in while.
Just needs an extra hug before bed.
That was the beauty of me having a partner thatreally understood this piece, and he I think
one of Gantt's superpowers is his you know, thethe relationships and how he thinks about
(09:31):
relationships in banking.
He knows this probably better than anyone, atleast anyone in my circle.
It's so critical.
Right?
You never know when you need capital.
You never know when you need a line of creditincrease.
You you never know when you wanna buy or or,you know, bolt on an acquisition to your
company.
And so, you know, money making money movesreally comes down to how well do you know your
(09:56):
banker?
How well does your banker know your business?
It's critical.
My dad has got this funny thing he always said,and my dad's a no debt guy.
Right?
He's he's owned his business for thirty years.
He's, you know, he's very conservative.
You know, could could have could have scaledand grown his business multiple times over.
(10:19):
His customers asked asked him to do it, he wasjust like, no.
I'm good.
I I got my I got my things that I like.
I don't need a bunch of headache.
And so but he always said, he was like, look.
If you owe the bank a million bucks, the bankowns you.
If you owe the bank a hundred million bucks,you own the bank.
(10:40):
And, you know, obviously, there's a lot ofbankers that would roll their eyes to that, but
there is some kind of ironic truth in that, youknow, especially when I was early in business,
you know, you you realize I would rather useOPM than MPM.
(11:01):
I would rather use other people's money, OPM,than my people's money.
And there is some strategy behind that, Right?
Especially, you wanna talk about risk.
I'm not gonna get into all the details of that.
Andy, if you wanna talk about that sometimeprobably in a less public setting than what I'm
(11:26):
than what I'm in here.
Would love to tell would love to talk strategyand talk shop around around debt, but here's
how I think about it.
If I can borrow a million bucks and thatmillion bucks can produce $2,000,000 in
revenue.
Right?
I gotta pay the million bucks back plusinterest.
(11:48):
Let's say it's 10% interest just for roundnumbers.
So I gotta pay 1.1.
And this, I'm I'm I'm not doing, you know,annualized over a certain number.
I'm getting very, very simple here, watering itdown.
I borrow a million bucks.
I owe the bank back 1,100,000.0, a hundredthousand in interest.
If I can make 2,000,000 with it, I've produced900,000 in margin for myself using other
(12:17):
people's money.
Now if I don't borrow the million and Ibootstrap it and I say, you know what?
I'm gonna use my own 250,000, but that 250,000returns me 250,000, right?
I double.
It's the same thing, right?
I borrow a million.
(12:37):
I make a million.
I use my $2.50.
It makes me $2.50 or makes me 500.
I'm not paying the interest, but I'm notgetting anywhere near the juice on the other
side of it.
So on my scenario where I borrowed a milliondollars and I paid the bank a hundred thousand
(13:00):
in interest, that's a lot of interest.
Paying a thousand paying a hundred thousanddollars in interest, oh, man, that's painful.
But I made 900 k with that strategy.
If I'm using my own 250,000 because that's whatI've got laying around in cash and it makes me
500, well, I've only netted 250,000.
I didn't have to pay any interest, but I didn'tnet I didn't net anywhere near as much as I
(13:25):
would have if I had borrowed some of the money.
And and I don't have enough time to go throughall the details.
Right?
There's down payments.
There's there's all kinds of games you canplay, whether it's off balance sheet debt, on
balance sheet debt, leasing.
You know, for me, I'm a huge fan of rentals,huge fan of rentals, especially early in
(13:46):
business.
We didn't buy a machine until I think we werethree or four years in, four years in.
But I I mean, I'm I'm at this stage of mycareer, I'm massively, massively pro debt.
Massively pro debt.
And there's one reason, and and really onereason only.
(14:08):
I believe in my circumstances, our organizationhas so much opportunity out in front of it to
grow and capture the market share here in TheUnited States that there is to capture.
There's so much opportunity for us that if Idon't use debt, I'll never capture anywhere
(14:31):
near the size of market share I think we can.
If I only use my own money, my own profits, theprofits generated by the company, if I'm just
using my own cash, we're gonna grow veryslowly.
We're going to miss opportunity afteropportunity, and we're not going to achieve our
mission, which is very simple, make the miningindustry a better place.
(14:57):
I think we could be a thousand employees nextyear.
We we could be a thousand employees in eighteenmonths.
It's gonna require me to use some otherpeople's money.
Now I pay them I pay them handsomely for it.
Right?
I've I've got 12% interest debt.
I've got 5% interest debt.
I've got 3% interest debt.
(15:18):
I'm happy to pay the interest if it allows meto go capture those opportunities because those
opportunities don't last forever.
Right?
They're we're gonna I'm putting a packagetogether right now, $40,000,000.
You know, between 30 and $40,000,000, dependingon how we structure it and and what all we end
up buying in this fleet.
(15:40):
But it's a massive opportunity with a lot ofzeros on the end.
I know this 30,000,000, 40 million dollars indebt's gonna return a massive return.
If we didn't go that route and we were muchmore conservative and we were, you know, no
debt, the no debt strategy, the cash is kingstrategy, of course, it's less risky, but we
(16:04):
never would get this opportunity.
And so what this I'm I'm basically trading timeat this point.
When I and this is kinda how I'm thinking aboutdebt.
I'm trading time.
Right?
I am using other people's money now, payinginterest, putting some risk on the balance
(16:27):
sheet.
Right?
It's a million dollar a month debt servicepayment in in this situation, but I have a
massive opportunity, massive contract, massivecustomer, that I think makes the next thirty
years of my life different.
And so I've said every you know, I've said thisfrom day one.
(16:48):
You can go back and listen to podcasts and readmy post from, eight years ago.
I'm taking big swings.
It's just how I am.
It's it's how I'm wired.
You know, I'm on this earth to play at thehighest level, and and that's just what I wanna
do.
That freaks other people out.
(17:08):
Right?
A million dollar a month debt service is is iscrazy.
Right?
I gotta pay the bank a million dollars everymonth just on this one package, not not
including all the other things the business, isrequiring to run on.
And so, you know, again, it's you're justtrading time.
Do I do I wanna go get these opportunities nowor do I wanna take the next thirty years to
(17:29):
grow into these opportunities using my ownmoney to fund operations and so on and so
forth?
So it's just it's a little different way ofthinking about it, but I would never compare my
situation to someone digging trenches orsomeone digging foundations or someone digging
commercial parking lots.
Rental is an amazing strategy.
(17:53):
And and quite frankly, I mean, to be honestwith you, I don't know if I've ever really said
this.
We did $40,000,000 a year in business with allrental gear.
So I don't want to hear people say, well, Ican't grow with rentals.
Like, want to grow.
I want to put money back in my pocket.
I want to own the machine.
Dude, I'm telling you, we did 40,000,000 Someof our Some of the most Let me phrase this
(18:20):
using correct English, which I struggle withsometimes.
One of our highest margin years was when we hadall rental gear.
By by percentage, highest margin percentage,net margin was using rental gear.
(18:41):
Now it takes a strategy, takes a structure,takes some you know, you gotta know what you're
doing.
You can't pay the rental companies forunderutilized hours and underutilized machines.
And I mean, there's so many ways you can getkilled on rentals.
But again, you can you can make really goodmoney renting machines.
So I don't think you have to go into debt.
(19:02):
Andy, I'd love to go in more detail with withwith you on this because I've lived both.
Right?
I've been no debt and and rental and built abusiness that way, and it was awesome.
And I kinda thought we'd always be a businesswith with no debt and only rentals, and it
(19:22):
turns out it's just not.
It's not the direction we end up going for alot of reasons.
Right?
COVID threw a wrench in things.
Rental rental gear just disappeared.
Right?
These these, oh, these equipment dealers werenot holding on to rental fleets.
A lot of the reason was because people weretrying to buy the machines because there was no
(19:43):
new machines coming in.
Right?
All the factories shut down.
And so COVID threw a wrench in some of ourrental strategy.
But then there was bonus depreciation that camearound and and there's a whole tax strategy.
So there's just a ton of nuance.
I don't wanna I don't wanna paint with a broadstroke and get someone in trouble, and they're
like, hey, Keaton told me to go take in debt.
(20:03):
Now I'm now they took my house.
I you know, that you gotta know what you'redoing, but but that's how I think about it.
So, Andy, sometime when you wanna get moredetailed, and and I don't know if enough people
get value out of this on this podcast, we canjump in to more detail on the debt thing,
sometime when I have more time.
Pause.
Let me get some water here.
(20:29):
Talking about 40,000,000 equipment packagesmakes me thirsty.
And let's see, Andy, what was your secondquestion?
Oh, the mastermind.
So I'm always gonna tell you straight what's onmy mind and and, you know, there's very little
filter here.
I try not to get myself in trouble, but I don'thave a tremendous filter at this stage of my
(20:52):
life yet.
I'm not a mastermind guy.
I'm just not.
I don't think I'm I'm probably not intelligentenough.
My brain just doesn't think that way.
You know?
I'm oddly enough, I do not do things to make afew dollars.
That's kind of it's kind of the blessing andthe curse of being a guy that takes big swings
(21:18):
is is if it's if the dollars just aren't acertain level, it's just not I just don't get
excited, you know?
It's it's one of the reasons why I haven't solda t shirt or a hat or a a coffee mug or
anything that says Purdium on it yet.
It's just, you know, okay, I can make I canmake a few hundred bucks selling, you know?
(21:42):
We spend I I make this joke with my buddies.
You know, a guy will lose $10 on the golfcourse or something, and I'll be like, dude, I
spent $10 on bottled water yesterday for ourcruise across the country.
And I don't say that to brag.
It's just it's it's really hard for me to putany amount of effort and time into a mastermind
(22:10):
course when I don't think it would be I justdon't think it would be worth my time.
Now here's what I would tell you.
It's not worth my time if I'm trying tomonetize it.
It's totally worth my time if I'm just gettingenjoyment out of it.
I feel like I'm helping other people.
I feel like I'm help I feel like I'm achievingmy mission of why I'm here on earth.
(22:31):
That's why I'm doing this podcast.
I don't make a dime off of it, but I feel likeI'm, you know, hope hopefully, you know,
achieving some of my mission here on Earth andhelping other people, and I get some enjoyment
out of it, and I I love getting the commentsback.
I love it fuels my it fuels my ego, but it alsofuels my passion for this industry when I hear
(22:53):
people and when I get video messages of guyslike, dude, this changed my business.
What you said yesterday, I applied and we didthis, and I get tons of enjoyment out of it.
So so a mastermind is not something that wouldwork for me personally.
What would work for me is is something that'sjust fun.
(23:15):
It's not a job.
Right?
I've already got a job.
I do in full transparency, it's gonna sound alittle bit sleazy.
I do random consulting calls every so often.
Very rare.
And I don't even do them from the Turner MiningGroup brand, if you will.
I just I have people that reach out.
(23:37):
They reach out through a few networks that I'ma part of, and these are consulting networks.
And and I started doing them during COVIDbecause because again, that was that was like a
thing.
It just kinda started popping up.
I gotta I gotta ask to do them all the time.
And I started, and my fee was $250 an hour.
(23:59):
And I was like, dude, this is amazing.
I get on a phone call for an hour and they sendme $250.
It's a no brainer.
Well, I did it for a while, and I was like,man, I don't think this is worth $250.
I gotta talk to these guys.
They don't know what they're talking about.
They're not even asking the right questions.
I'd love to help them.
(24:20):
Like, I'd love to sit in a room all day.
I could actually help them get what they want.
They're not even asking the right questions.
These people don't have a clue.
And so I started I I upped my fee to 500.
I was like, look.
If they pay me 500, it's worth it.
And that worked for a while.
They they were like, oh, man.
I don't know.
500.
We don't have many many people at $500, butwe'll we'll do it.
(24:43):
And the calls dropped off.
I didn't have as many calls because I'mcharging more money, but but when I did, I
felt, okay, if I'm gonna spend an hour, it'sworth it's worth $500.
And then I would get on these phone calls withsome of these attorneys over the years, right,
whether they were our attorneys or otherpeople's attorneys, and I would listen to them.
(25:06):
And they'd be like, oh, yeah.
Well, I charge $1,100 an hour.
And I'm like, wait a second.
You charge $1,100 an hour for all the thingsyou just said?
That's that's worth $1,100 an hour?
I was blown away.
I was like, you didn't say anything interestingat all.
You didn't say anything that value added.
You you said something that we could have chatGPT'd ourselves.
(25:28):
And so I upped my fee last year to $7.50 anhour.
And I was like, if people call and actuallywanna pay me $7.50 an hour for advice or for my
perspective or for my input, then okay.
It's worth it.
And this is no lie.
I've done, I don't know, I've done a few ofthem, done several of them.
(25:50):
I don't know, maybe a dozen.
At this stage, I don't even enjoy taking thephone calls at $7.50 an hour.
I don't know what the magic number is.
I really don't.
But that's why I say a mastermind would neverwork for me unless them unless it's just, you
know, a thousand people and it all spending,you know, a thousand bucks.
(26:11):
Okay.
Now the numbers start to really, you know, movethe needle.
But but for 20 guys paying me a hundred bucksor something, I just don't think for me, Andy,
I could get excited and then bring the value.
When I bring value I'm I'm one of those weirdguys that When I bring value to other people is
(26:32):
when I'm actually excited about it.
So many times, and my guys have seen this, whenI'm sitting in a meeting and I don't know
anything about the topic, if we're in a systemsmeeting and they're talking about code or
they're talking about a database, like likereally nerdy stuff, and I don't know anything,
I don't talk.
(26:54):
I get on my phone.
I'm on I'm doing emails.
I'm doing I'm doing something else.
And a lot of times, I'll just get up.
I'll be like, hey, guys.
I got other things I can go do.
I'm not adding any value.
And so I don't show up my best if I'm notreally adding value, and I don't really get
excited about the meeting, and that would be myfear with the mastermind.
I follow some of these guys.
(27:15):
Oh, man.
I'm sure you all do.
I you follow some of these guys on onInstagram, and they've got these masterminds,
right, with these these giveaways.
And it's a hundred you know, join join ourmastermind for a hundred bucks and I'll teach
you how to build your business or buy yourbusiness or whatever.
(27:36):
And every single time, if you look at theperson's life who's selling these Masterminds,
every single one of them, their life looks thethings in and around their life looks bigger
than life.
They're materialist.
They're driving Lambos.
They're $100,000 Audemars watches.
(28:00):
They're like it's way over the top.
And I bet you, you could get me to buy yourMastermind if, like, you drove an old camo
truck or something.
You know, some of the most wealthy people Iknow don't spend a dime.
(28:20):
You wouldn't know they're wealthy because theydon't blow it on stupid things like hundred
thousand dollar watches and $400,000 cars thatdepreciate.
Those are stupid financial decisions for themost part.
And so I I gotta ask myself.
I'm like, hey, you're selling a mastermind fora hundred bucks here and there.
(28:41):
Like, a, I can do some simple math here.
You're not generating any real money.
You're not generating anywhere near enoughmoney to afford a Lambo from this.
You do a quick a few quick Google searches.
These people don't even run real businesses.
It's all a scheme.
It's all a it's all a front.
(29:01):
They put on these events where there's like ahundred people show up.
Hey, come to my house.
I follow this one guy.
Let me see if I can find him.
This sounds bad because I actually still followhim.
He was one of the Diesel brothers.
Man, I forget his name.
Some of you guys are gonna know who it was, butjust super flashy over the top stuff.
(29:26):
And I'm like, man, I I it doesn't feel to melike this is genuine.
Doesn't feel to me like this guy actually knowswhat he's talking about and has actually built
a real business.
Sure, you can regurgitate some of the buzzwordsof, you know, IRR is this and ROI is that and
(29:47):
here's how you derisk and, you know, deleverand all these things, you know.
But have you actually built something?
And so I don't know, Andy.
That's probably a little bit of a cynical take.
I just get so much more excitement out ofpeople that are actually in it.
I would, you know, I'll use Kaden Cope becausehe also sent me a video message and he's just
(30:11):
on my brain.
I would never charge Caden Cope a dime if hecalled me and wanted to talk business, if he
wanted to talk about how to scale a businessand how to deal with people problems, and I
would never charge that guy a dime.
I would get so jacked up to talk to him becausehe's a young dude trying to kill it in business
(30:32):
who is the same as me.
I'm a few years ahead, but I was the exact sameguy eight years ago.
And so for me, I would ease I mean, without adoubt, if he called, I'd pick it up.
I don't I don't know his number, but if if ifhe left me a voice mail, I'd call him back, and
I would never ask a dime.
(30:53):
Now the problem with that approach is that Ican't do that for everybody.
I am blown away, and I know some of you guysare waiting patiently.
I am blown away at the number of people thatwant this personal development dashboard.
I'm gonna send it out.
I promise you, I get I get five to 10 newpeople every single day.
So I need I'm gonna have to have my wife orsomebody help me just arrange all these email
(31:18):
addresses.
I'm gonna have to get them in Mailchimp orsomething to distribute this thing.
But I can't talk to that many guys.
Right?
I could talk to Caden, be like once or maybetwice.
I haven't even gotten the people to come onthis show as the guests that I want to yet.
I haven't been able to devote enough time andschedule it and all those things.
And so, you know, that's my that's kinda mythat's kinda my approach to the mastermind
(31:43):
thing.
If Annie, maybe if you could help me figurethat out and if I could get jazzed up about it,
it's just not a money thing.
I couldn't do it for the money and feel excitedbecause I don't have a big enough following to
have enough volume there to make the money areal number, and and I also don't wanna sound
(32:05):
scammy and sleazy and slimy, you know.
I'm shoot.
I'm I'm in the trenches of business figuring itout every single day like a lot of people, and
I'm building it, and I don't really have timeto show other people how to build Maybe in
maybe in twenty years, when I'm done buildingit, I can take time to show other people and
talk about it.
(32:26):
But I you know, just the fact that I'm doingthis podcast every day already takes more time
than I was wanting to spend doing this sort ofthing.
So I don't know if that that's probably soundsI hope my attitude doesn't sound too negative
on that.
And don't I'm not dissing other people that doa mastermind unless you're doing it sleazy.
(32:46):
If you own a Lambo or if you own an Audemars ora Patek, like, if you own some of those things
and are doing a mastermind, I don't know.
It feels wrong.
It feels wrong to me.
It would be like asking Kobe Bryant when he wasalive to do a average Joe's basketball camp
(33:10):
for, like, middle aged guys in church leaguebasketball.
Like like, Kobe Bryant's not wasting his timeteaching you how to shoot free throws.
He's got bigger things to go do.
And if some of these people are so wealthy,they're flying around on jets.
And and and by the way, just to fly around on aprivate jet, I don't think 99% of the people
(33:30):
understand how expensive that is to actuallyfly around on a jet.
I know people worth 9 figures, liquid 9 figuresthat don't fly around on private jets, or at
least not very often.
Maybe they will on a special trip or they'retaking their wife somewhere, but they're not
flexing on private jets hardly ever.
(33:55):
So to see guys in their twenties and thirtiesflying around on private jets with Lambos and
Paytex and it's just it's wild to me.
So that's where I I have a problem with thewith the mastermind course.
But, Andy, I love the video, and I love thatyou reached out.
I still wanna get back in the dirt crew.
I would love to talk to your guys, especiallyif if they get questions around the whole debt
(34:18):
thing.
You know, it's it's a beast, and the more youbuild the beast, the more debt you bring on.
And there's there's trust me, there is gooddebt and there's bad debt.
The good debt is on hard assets.
The bad debt is on I've gotta go raise money tokeep my company alive.
(34:39):
I am only about debt on hard assets becausethen there's some collateral.
Right?
If if if you have to, you get rid of the asset,you pay the you pay the debt off.
No harm, no foul.
If you're raising debt to fund your operationto like like keep the business alive, it's a
(35:00):
really scary place to be.
It's like going into a casino and asking themfor a loan and praying you have a couple good
hands.
And if you have a couple good hands, maybe youpay them back and now you got some house money
to play on.
But if you don't have the good hands, what areyou doing?
How are coming up with the money?
(35:22):
You know, I think there's some strategy to getinto around operating lines of credit, you
know, tied to a borrowing base with somereceivables, or some inventory or some other
things.
There's some there's some cool ways to do that.
But to to put debt on the balance sheet to keepyour company a living tells me there's a lot of
other deeper issues that, you know, youprobably need to go pay attention to before you
(35:47):
you go down that path.
So anyway, hope that was helpful.
I said it was gonna be short.
It's thirty five minutes.
I apologize.
You know how I can get carried away on some ofthese things.
So thank you guys for listening.
I, you know, it's it's always fun.
It's always fun.
It's it's it's not always fun.
(36:07):
It's not always fun.
It's 10:00 on a Saturday night.
I got a gorgeous woman upstairs in my bed.
I got basketball games on.
I got things to go do, but I wanted to try toearn my per diem today.
I hope I did it.
Thanks, Andy, for the for the video message.
Some of you guys that are waiting, send me avideo message.
(36:28):
If you haven't sent one, send one.
And if you haven't left a review, leave me areview.
Thank you.
Pray you're killing it.
I pray you're getting your per diem, and I prayyou tune back in tomorrow.
Thanks, guys.
Tune back in one more day.
(36:53):
Just one more day.
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