August 10, 2025 • 47 mins
Keaton Turner kicks off with a warm welcome, sharing a Saturday night movie pick and podcast updates, including a special "vault" episode. He reflects on themes of relatability and perception in business, discussing work-life balance, perseverance, and the need to pivot. Keaton explores the long-term impact of actions, patience with new hires, and decision-making strategies. The episode covers adapting in business, fostering a results-oriented mindset, and mentoring. Keaton also discusses team building, managing change, and the importance of patience and commitment in decision-making, before concluding with future plans.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, guys.
I am I am back.
This is Keaton Turner.
Welcome back to the Purdium Podcast.
Tonight is a Saturday night.
I'm sitting on the couch with my beautifulwife.
We're watching a movie.
We just poured some red wine.
What movie were we watching?
The Longest Week.
The Longest Week.
(00:21):
Your mom recommended it.
My mom recommended it.
I have no idea what it's about.
We're gonna we're gonna watch it.
Looks okay.
We'll see.
But I did not record a podcast episode today.
So what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna I'm gonna reachinto the vault.
I'm gonna pull out an episode I recorded a weekor two ago, a couple think I it was a couple
(00:43):
weeks ago.
And so I think it's forty some odd minutes.
It was probably one of my worst days in thelast couple weeks, but I'm gonna pull that one
out of the vault.
I put it in there because I I wanted to let itsimmer.
I thought about editing some of it out, and Iwas like, you know what?
I don't have time for that.
I'm just gonna run with it as it was recorded.
(01:04):
So that's what you're getting in this episode.
I appreciate you tuning in.
I'm clicking the easy button tonight on thepodcast,
and and hope you get some value out of Hope youget
some join enjoyment out of it.
So thanks for thanks for listening.
Thanks for tuning back in another day.
(01:51):
Welcome back to the Purduem podcast.
Another day.
I missed all the haters.
And, in spite of all the folks who give up,we're doing it again one more day.
Appreciate you guys joining me for the Purdue MPodcast.
(02:15):
I am Keaton Turner.
And I'm and I'm I'm excited to have you back.
I I felt that I've had a little bit of a spicytone the last few episodes or so.
I talked about haters.
I've, you know, I've talked.
You know, I I went on a rant.
(02:36):
The Hydraulic I I got a message from someone.
I'm not gonna say who because I didn't ask forhis permission.
But I got a message from another business ownerwhen I dropped that episode about death being
thrown into the hydraulic oil, and he helaughed.
(02:59):
He was like, man, I can't believe that episode.
I thought we were the only company that had todeal with that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, no.
Unfortunately not.
That happens.
That happens here.
I'm a lot more relatable than than maybe whatit what people believe or or appear to believe
(03:22):
with a guy that runs a podcast.
So many times, you you guys see this or maybeyou feel this.
Guys like Andy Furcella, guys like Gary V, guyslike LeBron, guys that you see or hear a bunch
of on TV.
(03:43):
Your pick your favorite podcast guys.
Right?
Jay Cal, Saks.
My my favorite podcast, the all in podcast,Saks, Jay Cal, Chamath.
These guys seem like they are, I don't know,otherworldly.
(04:06):
They seem like they're out of this world.
Right?
They don't seem like real characters.
They seem like they are movie stars,celebrities, famous, you know, a listers, b
listers, whatever.
They they don't seem like they're normalpeople.
They seem like they're somebody that isunrelatable.
(04:26):
They seem like people that, you know, won'twon't understand your problems or the situation
you're in life.
And in reality, you know, all of them arenormal guys.
They're normal people.
They have all the same problems.
A lot of them, if you if you actually know somesome of their stories and their upbringings and
(04:50):
how they got to where they are, you're catchingthem at the pinnacle of their story.
That's why they're famous.
If you had would have known them years prior,you'd be like, man, it's just a normal guy.
It's interesting how it works when people andagain, I know I am I am nowhere near as clout
(05:15):
worthy as all the names I just named.
I'm nowhere near famous, and I know that aboutmyself.
Trust me.
I do.
But but I do get messages from some of you guysthat I think maybe believe for a minute that
I'm not a normal person, that I'm that thatwe're not a normal business, that I this is not
(05:37):
a that you're not just interacting with anothernormal Delbert.
I told someone today on a meeting I was like,man, I'm I'm really honestly just a redneck
that's been polished up a little bit.
That's the truth.
(05:57):
And so when I get messages from some of youguys that that believe I'm some mythical
creature, it's humbling, a.
But b, you need to look in the mirror andrealize how silly you sound because I'm just
another normal guy sharing my day on a podcast.
And and I man, I get a kick out of themessages, but I have bad days.
(06:25):
I have frustrating moments.
I'm gonna fill you in on where I'm at in lifetoday.
It is the last day of summer.
I brought my 10 year old son into the officethis morning, and, you know, I woke him up
about 07:30.
I had already had a cup of coffee, and I wasgetting getting ready to go, getting ready to
(06:47):
walk out the door.
I'm like, hey, dude.
Throw throw some clothes on.
Put a collared shirt on.
You're coming into the office with me today.
You're gonna see what I do.
I I had intentions of doing this all summerlong, but, you know, life got crazy, and and I
never did get it done.
And so today was the day where I brought himinto the office, and he sat through an exec
(07:10):
team meeting that was it wasn't a fun meeting.
It was all bad news, but that's sometimes howit goes.
He then sat in my office as I checked emails,did computer work.
He's like, what do you do just looking at thisscreen all day?
I'm like, bro, this is this is why I tell you,like, enjoy school because when you get to my
(07:30):
age, none of this is very fun.
I I argue with grown men who also are lookingat computer screens all day.
This is what we do.
This is you know, there's no tractors.
Like, I don't get to ride around on a dozer.
So it was kind of an eye opening experience forhim.
He only lasted till lunchtime, and I sent himback to his mother.
(07:53):
Shelby later texted me and said, hey.
I'll read you the text because it was it wasactually kinda funny.
Shelby was like, hey.
He he said I know what dad does or or or no.
He said, I know what dad means when he said hehad a meeting today.
Those things get a bit aggressive.
(08:13):
We had some we had some internal strife goingon today.
I am a normal guy.
I lack a lot of experience to wear the badgethat I wear.
I'm trying to figure it out like so many othernormal guys in business.
(08:35):
But the question I've got that really, thetopic I have today, the question I'm gonna ask
is when do you know when to, like, double down,have faith, persevere, get through the hard
times, be optimistic and positive?
(08:57):
When do you know when to do that versus when tobe scared, when to be negative, when to be
worrisome, when to throw in the towel, when tocall it quits.
Like like, how do you know the difference?
(09:19):
I I've seen a a few of you guys that havemessaged me recently.
One guy posted on on social media today, saidthey've had a very hard year.
This guy's running a business.
He said they've had a very hard year, andthey're doing their best to figure it out.
And it got me thinking a little bit, my ownsituation, what we go through, because it's not
(09:42):
all sunshines and rainbows.
It's not every day is a cakewalk.
How do you know as the leader when to bet onyour team, bet on your people, bet on your
customers, bet on your progress versus when toget scared, when to start to search for plan b,
(10:06):
when to pivot.
A lot of people wonder, well, like, when do youpivot?
Because I talk a lot about sticking withsomething.
I I said here not too long ago, stick withstick with something for eight years, stick
with the business for eight years, stick with acareer path for eight years, and then switch.
I've I've, in other episodes, said, you know,hey.
(10:26):
If something's not working, pivot.
So I can con I I can kinda sound concontradictory, but I can tell you as someone
who has lived through so many bad operations.
I've lived through so many bad managers.
I've lived through bad bosses.
(10:47):
I've just lived through some bad situations.
Some of them I've gotten myself into.
Others, I've I've lived through just becausecircumstance or I was thrown into it.
But how do you know, like, when to when tochange course?
I carry this rule around with me now becauseI've been through this enough.
(11:08):
I try to apply lessons learned in my life.
I carry this rule around with me now, now thatI'm in business.
I've done enough business for myself eight anda half years in that I I can I can kinda draw
some conclusions for some certain chapterswe've lived through?
(11:30):
And and one of the things that I try to holdmyself to now is that anything I do today as
leader of the organization, anything my teamdoes today, I'm not going to fully realize the
(11:51):
results of those actions for six to twelvemonths.
And I'm gonna explain because some people are,like, rolling their eyes.
If I make a strategic decision today, dependingon how big the strategy is, it could take
(12:12):
twelve months for me to see any real benefitfrom that strategy.
It could take twelve months for me to reap thefruits of that decision.
And, you know, early on in business, when Ifirst started, I was someone that made quick
(12:32):
decisions.
I loved making quick decisions because I couldsee the result the next day.
Right?
Something screwed up today.
I fix it.
It's better tomorrow.
What I didn't realize is that short term gainsometimes equals long term pain.
And this is tough.
Again, I am only 36 years old, and I am tryingmy hardest to learn in real time.
(13:00):
But I believe this one to be true.
I've had people on my own team get frustratedwith me for acting too slow.
I've had other people on my team frustratedthat we're moving too fast, we're too her herky
jerky.
I am of the belief as I sit right now in theseat that I sit, my decision making, who I
(13:25):
appoint to leadership roles, what strategies wedeploy as an organization, what what what
process we go roll out or try to improve.
I am of the belief now, At best, if we make adecision today, it takes six months for us to
(13:49):
see the full picture play out.
I can make a decision today and see actiontomorrow, 100%.
I can tell one of my guys, hey, we're gonna godo this today and see something different
happen tomorrow.
No doubt.
(14:10):
But the decisions we're making, the investmentswe're making, the bets we're making, the people
we are picking, it takes a lot longer than youthink.
And I'm talking about six to twelve monthsbeing on really, like, the short end of the
spectrum.
I I I see a lot of guys and I hear from a lotof guys who are like, man, I I hired this guy,
(14:35):
and I'm doing this thing, and he's just, youknow, man, it's been two months, and I'm just
not seeing, like, the I'm not seeing the drive.
I'm not seeing the result.
I'm not seeing the action.
I've talked to other people.
They're like, yeah, it's been, you know, it'sbeen six months, and I thought it was gonna be
different by now.
(14:57):
It takes a while.
Every time I hire somebody in our team,especially this day and age, I tell them, take
the first few months to just feel out what wedo.
This is I know this sounds kumbaya.
This blows a lot of people's minds, especiallypeople that are young in business or or new
(15:20):
business owners.
Like, take the first few months to just drinkfrom the fire hose.
Figure out the lay of the land.
Figure out what we do, how we do it.
Of course, we wanna cram as much into theirbrain as possible.
We don't wanna waste time.
But I cannot tell you how many times I havegone through a change where I give someone
(15:44):
responsibility or I give someone a task or Igive someone a portion of the company, and it
just takes longer to see it through than Iexpected.
I know I know, without a doubt, there arepeople that I have given up on way in my past
that probably deserved more rope, probablydeserved more runway.
(16:09):
It didn't work for me in the time, and so mybar was high.
They weren't delivering.
Got rid of them.
We're all on a journey.
And as I have made some of these decisions,I've let some people stay way too long.
I've let others go way too soon.
(16:30):
And I am just telling you through makingmultiple attempts at this, the longer you keep
someone, the the more you pour into them.
If they've got the foundational principlesright, if they're a good person, if they've got
the right talents, if they're intelligent, ifthey can interact with other people at a high
(16:53):
level.
Like, if you've got the right bones, likefundamental business bones, structure,
foundation, use whatever word you want,sometimes it takes a while just to find the
group.
I can't imagine sometimes I play this scenarioout in my own head.
I'm like, man, what would it look like if I washired tomorrow to run a new company?
(17:22):
What would it look like?
What would it look like if if, you know, youcan name a company, hired Keaton Turner
tomorrow to run a business unit or run acompany?
Well, I can tell you what I would ask for.
If an owner hired me and it's a it's a sub$100,000,000 company, so below a $100,000,000
(17:46):
in annual revenue, I'm going to ask forpatience.
Now, I'm gonna wanna learn like what okay,mister owner, what do you want from me?
What do you want out of this role?
Do you want quick action?
Do you want strategic action?
Because those two are opposite end of thespectrum.
(18:06):
What do you what do you want out of me?
But kind of regardless of what you wanna getout of Keaton Turner, I think my feedback is
like, look.
I'm going to taste a lot of things in thisorganization for the next several months,
(18:27):
probably six months.
Like, I don't really do you know how hard it isto get to know someone, like, truly get to know
them to where you can bet your career on themin a matter of six months?
Do you know how hard it is to build trust insix months where you fully trust someone?
(18:49):
Trust that they have your best interest, trustthat they care about the company.
Like, six months is not very much time at all.
And so the first thing I'm gonna do if I'm anewly hired president, CEO, vice president, mid
level manager, the first thing I'm gonna do issay, hey.
(19:12):
Be patient with me.
I'm gonna go figure out who I can trust.
I'm gonna figure out which process or lack ofprocesses you have.
I'm gonna go figure out where the low hangingfruit is for the responsibilities of my role.
(19:33):
If you're jumping into a young company, chancesare and I say young company.
Like, if you're jumping into a company that'snot existed for fifteen years or more, twenty
years or more, chances are there is low hangingfruit every direction you turn, in every
department.
(19:54):
And I'm only saying this because I know I mean,I'm speaking personally.
There is low hanging fruit, meaning things wecan improve in every department of an eight
year old business.
Every department.
Now we're working on it.
(20:15):
There are things that are improving, but ittakes time.
It takes trust.
It takes commitment.
It takes betting on people when results are notthere.
This is tough.
I mean, this is this is the one of thechallenges.
(20:36):
There's only a few people who this episode isactually going to resonate with, and that's
okay.
I don't I don't I don't do this for the massesanyway.
This is a tough one because a lot of folks,they only get three, four, five, six months,
maybe a year, and then they're out.
(20:59):
If an organization doesn't see results out ofyou, and and the mining industry is the worst
at this, if they don't see results out of youin a few months, you're gone.
Project managers, equipment operators, all theway up through the food chain, you don't get
much time.
We're a production based company.
(21:21):
Every day is a dollar.
A lot of dollars, actually.
Every day is a dollar.
And so if you're not producing today, how manydays do you get until you are producing?
And and, again, as someone who has livedthrough this and is trying to navigate an
organization full of people, a lot of newpeople, a lot of a lot of different process, a
(21:46):
lot of different controls, a lot of differentprocedure, the challenge is, do you believe in
people for the long term, or are you searchingfor a quick short term result?
There's a lot of companies out there.
(22:06):
They don't they cannot afford to bet on thelong term because the short term is so screwed
up.
I've been there.
I've wanted to bet on people for the long term,but I was in such dire straits that I need
short term results to get me through.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have made it through.
(22:26):
I had one guy at one time.
He would he would have been the right long termbet.
He was awesome.
Great guy.
Could do strategy, could do, you know, kind ofall he could not get us through the short term
crunch we were in, and so I couldn't stomachit.
(22:46):
I was like, dude, we've got to deliver shortterm results in order to even have a chance at
being a company long term.
There are different chapters where the shortterm, while it might not be great, it's not
completely a loss.
It's not completely on fire, and someone needsto be looking a little longer term to say, hey,
(23:12):
are are we gonna be in a good position a yearfrom now, two years, three years from now?
Some companies can't think about three yearsfrom now.
They have to think about tomorrow becausepayroll's due on Friday, and they don't have
any money in the account on Thursday.
(23:33):
This is the battle of someone who leads anorganization.
Do you navigate to short term results?
Do you make bets based on short term thinking?
Do you assign people in roles who have shortterm near side results that they're gonna
(23:59):
produce, or do you bet on the long term?
It's a tough one.
It's one that I again, having living havehaving lived through this now multiple times, I
think each chapter has its right bet, but I amconvinced where I sit now.
(24:23):
Things we do today, decisions we make today,best case scenario takes six months to play
out, and in more likely scenarios, take a yearto play out.
I've even had guys and and they're people thatare still on the team who eighteen months ago
(24:43):
or or twenty four months ago, was like, yeah.
There's no way.
They're not gonna make it.
They're not gonna make the jump.
They're not gonna learn enough.
They're not gonna they're not, like, they'renot gonna meet us where we are.
And I am so thankful that twenty where I sittoday, I am so thankful that twenty four months
ago, I believed in them.
(25:07):
I stayed with them.
I battled through the tough patch.
I was talking to my brother-in-law over theweekend on the lake, and he was like, man, I
you know, he he he's kinda climbing corporateAmerica ladder, and he was like, man, got a
person that I'm putting on a PIP.
I'm like, oh, that sucks.
(25:27):
A PIP is, for those that don't know, a PIP is aperformance improvement plan.
It's basically the writing on the wall thatyou're getting fired.
If you get put on a PIP, more times than not,more often than not, the company wants to fire
you.
They are just checking all the right boxes.
(25:48):
It's an HR practice.
Years ago, pips never even existed.
When someone wasn't producing results, you justfired them.
That was your performance improvement plan wasfiring someone and rehiring someone new.
Nowadays, especially, you know, in corporateAmerica, in order to fire someone, you first
(26:11):
put them on a performance improvement plan,meaning you document all the areas where
they're not currently performing, and you tellthem the bar that they need to get to in order
to achieve the PIP.
Get better in your job and you keep your job.
(26:31):
Don't get better in your job, you get fired.
That's essentially what a PIP is.
And he was talking about, man, I got this I gotthis person.
I gotta put him on a PIP.
It's frustrating.
I cannot tell you how many times someone,again, I'm speaking personally, Someone in my
(26:54):
mind, I thought there's no way they make it.
There's no way this person is here six monthsfrom now.
And if we bet on the right people at the righttime and we coach them through the right things
and we keep our head down and stay committed tothe journey, they have come out on the other
(27:21):
side so much more resilient, so much better, soso much more context into our business.
I think a lot of times, what what I've learnedis maybe we were just managing the person
incorrectly.
Maybe they they just weren't getting the rightfeedback.
(27:42):
Maybe they weren't getting the right list ofpriorities.
Maybe they just have way too much volume comingin.
They're trying to do way too much drinking fromthe fire hose.
Maybe we need to simplify their role.
I've learned I mean, this is I I I should stopsaying I've learned because I am learning.
(28:07):
I'm in the process of learning.
This is the beauty of being 36 trying to builda business.
You get to learn in real time.
And I am learning that betting on people whohave the right foundational qualities, the
right EQ, emotional intelligence, the right IQ,you give them enough time, they figure it out.
(28:34):
Every once in while, something clicks.
I've got I I've had a guy in the past who, youknow, bless his heart, like, two years into the
business, I was like, this is just not working.
I don't know what is going on.
It's not worth two years into the business.
All of a sudden, one day, something clicked.
(28:55):
It was like magic.
I was like, wait a second.
All this time, two years in, like, you wereactually learning.
You were picking things up.
You were getting context on the industry andour partners and how we do things and the
problems and the challenges.
And all of a sudden, it was like all the valuethat was not realized in two years, all of a
(29:19):
sudden, two years in, boom, that value all camein a windfall.
And I'm so glad that I have stayed faithful andcommitted to certain folks at times when it
looked like things just didn't make sense.
(29:43):
It was the wrong fit.
It was the wrong action.
It was the wrong result.
We're a results based company.
Like, I I talk all the time, results, results,results.
We care about results.
I have had to dramatically tone that backbecause we can start to adopt the hatchet man
mentality where we just get rid of people whodon't produce results.
(30:05):
I I personally have grown up loving thistheory.
Get rid of people that don't produce results.
If they don't produce results for your life,for your business, for your joy, for your
happiness, just get rid of them.
The reality is it's not that simple.
There are people that go through a tough timeand don't produce results.
(30:28):
There are people that go through a learningcurve.
There are people that go through a ramp up.
And if you get rid of them too soon before theyever produced any results, you might be cutting
them way short of the time where they didproduce a ton of results.
This is a tough one.
(30:50):
When's the right time?
When do you when do you bet on someone?
Bet on the process.
As some people say, bet on the come.
Right?
The for those of you guys that are, you know,craps players, like, when do you bet that it's
(31:10):
all gonna work out versus bet that it's time tomake a switch?
To me, how I evaluate this is potential.
Some people I am able to see a tremendouspotential in, but we're not there yet.
(31:34):
Some people I'm able to see like, oh, man.
You give this person two years, and they'rephenomenal.
Potential or ceiling.
We've used the word ceiling a lot in ourcompany.
Do they have a high ceiling?
If the answer is yes, if they've got a lot ofpotential, if they have a high ceiling, I think
(31:57):
it's your duty and obligation to get them totheir ceiling.
Now if you're working with someone who they'reat their ceiling, they're not gonna grow
anymore, they're not gonna become any moreintelligent, they're never gonna learn anymore,
they're not gonna get any more context on yourbusiness, They're not gonna get any better at
their role.
They're just they're just where they are.
(32:20):
If they're at their ceiling, I get uninspiredby those people very quickly.
Now, not to say they don't have a place on theteam, but for those people that are at their
ceiling, they have a specific role, and thatrole does not evolve or change because the
person does not evolve or change if they're attheir ceiling.
(32:43):
So that's the first thing.
I I evaluate, are they at their ceiling or no?
If the answer's no, the next question is, howdo I get them to their ceiling?
There's a ceiling there somewhere.
I don't know where it is, but they're notthere.
What do I need to do to expose them to reps,expose them to ball kickings, expose them to
(33:07):
the learnings that have to happen to get themto their ceiling?
That's that's how I think about it.
The second thing the second thing I think aboutis do they have the right fundamentals?
Do they have the right intangibles?
(33:28):
Are they respectful?
Are they trustworthy?
You know, do they live the values?
There's been times when I've had to overlookpeople who were super talented, but were
nowhere near living our values.
We're not a good human.
(33:48):
They were a jerk.
They were sleazy.
They were scammy.
Do they have the intangibles?
The stuff beyond just the day job.
Do people like them?
To me, that's an intangible.
Do they get along well with others?
Can they work in a team environment?
Do they have the intangibles?
(34:09):
And then the third one, this one's tough.
This one's tough to find.
Can they motivate other people?
Can they get people excited to follow them inthe battle, to do the work that, quite frankly,
a lot of people don't wanna do, to do a jobthat's beneath them for a period of time, to be
(34:34):
patient in a role for a period of time?
Like, can can they build soldiers?
If you can find someone that can buildsoldiers, and when I say build soldiers, what I
really mean is like, they can mentor others.
They can keep people inspired and motivated.
They can get people to take a job that maybe isbeneath them for a period of time while they
(34:56):
work their way up into the role.
Like, can they build an army behind them?
Do they have the fundamental core beliefs thatyou share, you know, core values, so on and so
forth?
And are they at their ceiling?
If you can answer those three questions and theperson isn't quite where you want them to be,
(35:22):
maybe they just need more time.
Maybe they just need more time.
I mean, to be honest with you, if if you've gotsomeone that can build soldiers and and one of
the key points to this is they bring peoplewith them.
I've had people that have hired on to ourcompany and, and never brought a single person
(35:43):
with them.
Never brought over one single person from theirpast life.
Some people do that by design.
Some people don't wanna bring people from theirpast life with them.
Other people wanna bring a lot of folks withthem.
I don't think there's any right or wrong, butit is definitely a data point when someone gets
hired onto a company and wants to bring peoplefrom other companies with them.
(36:09):
Because if people actually go, that sayssomething.
It says they can build soldiers.
Soldiers march when the leader says march.
And so when the leader joins a new force andsays, hey, I'm marching over here, sometimes
the soldiers go march over there.
That to me is a sign.
(36:29):
Same thing with the ceiling.
If if if you found someone that can buildsoldiers, that believes the same things you do,
that that shares the core values you do, andhas a higher ceiling than where they're
currently operating, you might just need togive them more time.
(36:53):
This one's tough.
This one's a tough one.
I know people are gonna send me a message.
They're gonna be like, man, I I hear all that.
That's great.
I hired Billy.
He came over here.
He brought Timmy and Johnny and Becky, but Ihaven't seen results yet.
We're three months in.
We're six months in.
We're eight months in.
(37:14):
I he's not killing it yet.
Maybe he just needs more time.
And I don't I don't love making excuses forpeople.
I don't.
I don't love letting people off the hook.
I mean, again, I I talk about results all thetime.
You are as good as the results you produce.
(37:37):
I believe that.
If you can't produce results, eventually, yougotta look yourself in the mirror and say, you
know what?
Maybe we're just no good.
Maybe I'm over my skis.
Maybe I'm maybe I'm not qualified.
But it takes time, especially, you know, I Iwould say the more developed an organization
(38:00):
is, the more time it takes.
There's a reason why some of these CEOs inthese big companies now are negotiating comp
packages that are tied to several years' worthof results, not just one year worth of results.
A CEO getting hired into a Fortune 500 orFortune 1,000 company, like, sure, there may be
(38:24):
some low hanging fruit they can come in andchange real quickly.
But for all intents and purposes, no CEO of afortune 500 company is jumping in and
dramatically changing the company in the firstsix months.
It's not happening.
It's just not.
And so, yeah, you can argue that you could jumpinto a mom and pop company or a small family
(38:46):
company and and really move the needle in acouple days or a few weeks or even a couple
months.
But for a company that's been around, that'sthat's that's it's it's turning a massive boat
around.
You ever tried to turn a massive boat around?
I was on a pontoon this past weekend, and I,you know, I was the captain of the boat, I got
(39:10):
to drive it.
I was like, dude, this thing, you can't turn itaround.
When the throttle's wide open, if you turn thesteering wheel full clock, the thing barely
turns.
It's not nimble.
It's not agile.
It likes to go in a straight line with nochange, and especially when the throttle's wide
(39:33):
open.
Now, sure, we could back all the way off thethrottle.
The thing will spin around on a dime, butyou're not going anywhere.
I think the same thing is true with companies.
If you are throttle wide open as a company andyou are down a path and you're used to the same
thing, you're doing the same things, it isreally hard to change.
It takes a long time.
(39:55):
And so if you're changing things today, itmight be six months or a year before you
recognize the fruits of the decision you made.
I have, it's been wild to watch.
It's been wild to watch it play out.
I have literally fired a guy, and then eightmonths later, been been ecstatic with the
(40:20):
results of our company, the financial results.
And I and I reward the new guy, and I'm like,yeah, dude.
Look.
Things are going great.
This this literally happened in the last fewyears.
I look at the new guy.
I'm like, yeah.
Things are going great.
You're killing it.
Little did I know, and I it took me a while toactually realize this in retrospect.
(40:40):
He shouldn't have gotten the the rewards of theresults.
It was the guy before him who had set all thisinto motion, and we're just now realizing it
eight months later with a new guy in in incharge.
And so some of this just, it just takes time.
Some of this you have to stay committed to.
You have to stay invested in.
(41:01):
I know some of my own guys are gonna listen tothis and be like, ah, here he is preaching
again.
Like, some of this just takes time.
And and I'm happy to be the one to say, I gaveit too much time.
To me, the lesser of the two evils is when Ilook at a chapter of our business, and a
(41:28):
chapter for us is, you know, two, three, fouryears as a chapter.
A four year chapter is a long chapter.
Most of our chapters have been two to threeyears.
I am happy to say that I gave a chapter toomuch time to see it play out because I have
(41:51):
given chapters too little time in the past, andI did not get to see them play out.
Now every chapter comes to an end.
You know, maybe maybe those were the rightdecisions in the time, but, you know, every
chapter deserves as many pages in the chapteras it takes to see it play out.
(42:12):
And if I end the chapter too soon, I don't getto realize the lessons that I'm learning in the
chapter.
I don't get to realize were those decisionsthat we originally decided on the right
decisions or not.
If Keaton Turner changed his mind every singleday when the wind blew or when a when a
(42:33):
financial result came in or, you know, a reportcame in or what if I change my mind, how do I
get to decide if I was, you know, correct in myoriginal thinking or not?
I haven't seen it play out.
Too often, business, especially small businessowners, make decisions too fluid, too quickly,
(43:00):
too spontaneous, and they don't get to seetheir prior decision play out.
They haven't given enough time.
This is what I'm learning.
This is why these big, old, stale companies areso slow to change.
They're they're living in a chapter.
They wanna see it play out.
(43:21):
They've made a bet on a CEO.
They've made a bet on a guy.
They wanna give him the right amount of time tosee if he can really, you know, right the ship
or deploy the strategy.
So this one's tough.
I, you know, I post this because or I droppedthis episode because I've seen some people
recently get bummed out about their year, andI'm not gonna call them out by name, but
(43:47):
there's some people that I follow on socialmedia.
There's some people that have messaged me onthe Perdium hotline.
They're you're bummed.
We're halfway through the year, and you'relooking at your year, and you're bummed out.
And you're like, you know what?
We didn't hit the financial metrics we wanted.
We didn't make the money we wanted.
We didn't land the customer we wanted.
We didn't do what we wanted, and you're bummedout.
(44:10):
And you're questioning yourself.
You're questioning your leadership team.
You're questioning the people that you dependon to do the work.
My question is, how much time have you givenit?
How much coaching have you given it?
How much patience have you deployed?
How much feedback?
(44:32):
Are the systems in place?
Do you have optics into what's working andwhat's not working?
Like, it's not always you.
It's not always the person.
There can be things in place or things not inplace that massively contribute to the result.
And so, you know, I just I wanted to throw thisout there because I think enough people are at
(44:58):
the point now where they're like, man, I'm justI'm not producing the results.
Something's gotta change, and then you changethe wrong And when you change the wrong thing,
it takes you a year, six months to a year,sometimes longer, to realize, oh, shoot.
I changed the wrong thing.
(45:19):
So so don't go just changing things just tochange them.
Give them time.
Commit to your decision.
You made a decision.
Commit to the decision.
See it through.
Get all the way to the end of the chapter.
And then when the chapter finally comes to aclose, then you can evaluate, hey.
That was a good chapter or a bad chapter.
(45:40):
So that's what I got.
I got a phone call coming in.
I got all kinds of things I gotta go do.
I didn't mean to rant on this one for as longas I did.
I appreciate the patience.
I appreciate the they're calling me back again.
I appreciate the patience.
I I I know I've failed some of you guys.
I owe some of you guys coffee mugs.
(46:01):
I promise the next batch is shipping outtomorrow.
I'm starting to think this was the worst ideaever to buy a bunch of coffee mugs and ship
them because I'm my kids are now back inschool, so I've lost my assembly line workers.
But I appreciate your patience.
I appreciate you guys believing in the pie.
Appreciate you tuning back in.
(46:23):
I don't want it to get stale.
I feel like it's been a little bit stalerecently as I'm nearing the 100 episode mark in
season two.
I'm, like, at that last leg of the marathonwhere I'm just pumping out what I can one foot
in front of the other.
But this is what was happening to me in myworld recently, and and I hope it helped
(46:48):
somebody out there.
Some of you guys that are, you know, notrunning a business, some of you guys that
aren't faced with this this situation of givingpeople more time or or chapters or whatever,
it's not gonna it's not gonna mean a ton toyou.
But for those of you guys that are goingthrough this, hopefully, helps something.
(47:09):
Don't don't make nearsighted decisions whenyou've got a long term vision, and don't make
long term decisions if you've got to makepayroll next week and you're dying on the vine.
Only you know when it's right to make thedecision, to make a pivot.
So I hope that was helpful.
Hope you're killing it.
Hope you're getting your per diem.
(47:30):
Hope you tune back in one more day.
Hey, guys.
I am I am back.
This is Keaton Turner.
Welcome back to the Purdium Podcast.
Tonight is a Saturday night.
I'm sitting on the couch with my beautifulwife.
We're watching a movie.
We just poured some red wine.
What movie were we watching?
The Longest Week.
The Longest Week.
(00:21):
Your mom recommended it.
My mom recommended it.
I have no idea what it's about.
We're gonna we're gonna watch it.
Looks okay.
We'll see.
But I did not record a podcast episode today.
So what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna I'm gonna reachinto the vault.
I'm gonna pull out an episode I recorded a weekor two ago, a couple think I it was a couple
(00:43):
weeks ago.
And so I think it's forty some odd minutes.
It was probably one of my worst days in thelast couple weeks, but I'm gonna pull that one
out of the vault.
I put it in there because I I wanted to let itsimmer.
I thought about editing some of it out, and Iwas like, you know what?
I don't have time for that.
I'm just gonna run with it as it was recorded.
(01:04):
So that's what you're getting in this episode.
I appreciate you tuning in.
I'm clicking the easy button tonight on thepodcast,
and and hope you get some value out of Hope youget
some join enjoyment out of it.
So thanks for thanks for listening.
Thanks for tuning back in another day.
(01:51):
Welcome back to the Purduem podcast.
Another day.
I missed all the haters.
And, in spite of all the folks who give up,we're doing it again one more day.
Appreciate you guys joining me for the Purdue MPodcast.
(02:15):
I am Keaton Turner.
And I'm and I'm I'm excited to have you back.
I I felt that I've had a little bit of a spicytone the last few episodes or so.
I talked about haters.
I've, you know, I've talked.
You know, I I went on a rant.
(02:36):
The Hydraulic I I got a message from someone.
I'm not gonna say who because I didn't ask forhis permission.
But I got a message from another business ownerwhen I dropped that episode about death being
thrown into the hydraulic oil, and he helaughed.
(02:59):
He was like, man, I can't believe that episode.
I thought we were the only company that had todeal with that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, no.
Unfortunately not.
That happens.
That happens here.
I'm a lot more relatable than than maybe whatit what people believe or or appear to believe
(03:22):
with a guy that runs a podcast.
So many times, you you guys see this or maybeyou feel this.
Guys like Andy Furcella, guys like Gary V, guyslike LeBron, guys that you see or hear a bunch
of on TV.
(03:43):
Your pick your favorite podcast guys.
Right?
Jay Cal, Saks.
My my favorite podcast, the all in podcast,Saks, Jay Cal, Chamath.
These guys seem like they are, I don't know,otherworldly.
(04:06):
They seem like they're out of this world.
Right?
They don't seem like real characters.
They seem like they are movie stars,celebrities, famous, you know, a listers, b
listers, whatever.
They they don't seem like they're normalpeople.
They seem like they're somebody that isunrelatable.
(04:26):
They seem like people that, you know, won'twon't understand your problems or the situation
you're in life.
And in reality, you know, all of them arenormal guys.
They're normal people.
They have all the same problems.
A lot of them, if you if you actually know somesome of their stories and their upbringings and
(04:50):
how they got to where they are, you're catchingthem at the pinnacle of their story.
That's why they're famous.
If you had would have known them years prior,you'd be like, man, it's just a normal guy.
It's interesting how it works when people andagain, I know I am I am nowhere near as clout
(05:15):
worthy as all the names I just named.
I'm nowhere near famous, and I know that aboutmyself.
Trust me.
I do.
But but I do get messages from some of you guysthat I think maybe believe for a minute that
I'm not a normal person, that I'm that thatwe're not a normal business, that I this is not
(05:37):
a that you're not just interacting with anothernormal Delbert.
I told someone today on a meeting I was like,man, I'm I'm really honestly just a redneck
that's been polished up a little bit.
That's the truth.
(05:57):
And so when I get messages from some of youguys that that believe I'm some mythical
creature, it's humbling, a.
But b, you need to look in the mirror andrealize how silly you sound because I'm just
another normal guy sharing my day on a podcast.
And and I man, I get a kick out of themessages, but I have bad days.
(06:25):
I have frustrating moments.
I'm gonna fill you in on where I'm at in lifetoday.
It is the last day of summer.
I brought my 10 year old son into the officethis morning, and, you know, I woke him up
about 07:30.
I had already had a cup of coffee, and I wasgetting getting ready to go, getting ready to
(06:47):
walk out the door.
I'm like, hey, dude.
Throw throw some clothes on.
Put a collared shirt on.
You're coming into the office with me today.
You're gonna see what I do.
I I had intentions of doing this all summerlong, but, you know, life got crazy, and and I
never did get it done.
And so today was the day where I brought himinto the office, and he sat through an exec
(07:10):
team meeting that was it wasn't a fun meeting.
It was all bad news, but that's sometimes howit goes.
He then sat in my office as I checked emails,did computer work.
He's like, what do you do just looking at thisscreen all day?
I'm like, bro, this is this is why I tell you,like, enjoy school because when you get to my
(07:30):
age, none of this is very fun.
I I argue with grown men who also are lookingat computer screens all day.
This is what we do.
This is you know, there's no tractors.
Like, I don't get to ride around on a dozer.
So it was kind of an eye opening experience forhim.
He only lasted till lunchtime, and I sent himback to his mother.
(07:53):
Shelby later texted me and said, hey.
I'll read you the text because it was it wasactually kinda funny.
Shelby was like, hey.
He he said I know what dad does or or or no.
He said, I know what dad means when he said hehad a meeting today.
Those things get a bit aggressive.
(08:13):
We had some we had some internal strife goingon today.
I am a normal guy.
I lack a lot of experience to wear the badgethat I wear.
I'm trying to figure it out like so many othernormal guys in business.
(08:35):
But the question I've got that really, thetopic I have today, the question I'm gonna ask
is when do you know when to, like, double down,have faith, persevere, get through the hard
times, be optimistic and positive?
(08:57):
When do you know when to do that versus when tobe scared, when to be negative, when to be
worrisome, when to throw in the towel, when tocall it quits.
Like like, how do you know the difference?
(09:19):
I I've seen a a few of you guys that havemessaged me recently.
One guy posted on on social media today, saidthey've had a very hard year.
This guy's running a business.
He said they've had a very hard year, andthey're doing their best to figure it out.
And it got me thinking a little bit, my ownsituation, what we go through, because it's not
(09:42):
all sunshines and rainbows.
It's not every day is a cakewalk.
How do you know as the leader when to bet onyour team, bet on your people, bet on your
customers, bet on your progress versus when toget scared, when to start to search for plan b,
(10:06):
when to pivot.
A lot of people wonder, well, like, when do youpivot?
Because I talk a lot about sticking withsomething.
I I said here not too long ago, stick withstick with something for eight years, stick
with the business for eight years, stick with acareer path for eight years, and then switch.
I've I've, in other episodes, said, you know,hey.
(10:26):
If something's not working, pivot.
So I can con I I can kinda sound concontradictory, but I can tell you as someone
who has lived through so many bad operations.
I've lived through so many bad managers.
I've lived through bad bosses.
(10:47):
I've just lived through some bad situations.
Some of them I've gotten myself into.
Others, I've I've lived through just becausecircumstance or I was thrown into it.
But how do you know, like, when to when tochange course?
I carry this rule around with me now becauseI've been through this enough.
(11:08):
I try to apply lessons learned in my life.
I carry this rule around with me now, now thatI'm in business.
I've done enough business for myself eight anda half years in that I I can I can kinda draw
some conclusions for some certain chapterswe've lived through?
(11:30):
And and one of the things that I try to holdmyself to now is that anything I do today as
leader of the organization, anything my teamdoes today, I'm not going to fully realize the
(11:51):
results of those actions for six to twelvemonths.
And I'm gonna explain because some people are,like, rolling their eyes.
If I make a strategic decision today, dependingon how big the strategy is, it could take
(12:12):
twelve months for me to see any real benefitfrom that strategy.
It could take twelve months for me to reap thefruits of that decision.
And, you know, early on in business, when Ifirst started, I was someone that made quick
(12:32):
decisions.
I loved making quick decisions because I couldsee the result the next day.
Right?
Something screwed up today.
I fix it.
It's better tomorrow.
What I didn't realize is that short term gainsometimes equals long term pain.
And this is tough.
Again, I am only 36 years old, and I am tryingmy hardest to learn in real time.
(13:00):
But I believe this one to be true.
I've had people on my own team get frustratedwith me for acting too slow.
I've had other people on my team frustratedthat we're moving too fast, we're too her herky
jerky.
I am of the belief as I sit right now in theseat that I sit, my decision making, who I
(13:25):
appoint to leadership roles, what strategies wedeploy as an organization, what what what
process we go roll out or try to improve.
I am of the belief now, At best, if we make adecision today, it takes six months for us to
(13:49):
see the full picture play out.
I can make a decision today and see actiontomorrow, 100%.
I can tell one of my guys, hey, we're gonna godo this today and see something different
happen tomorrow.
No doubt.
(14:10):
But the decisions we're making, the investmentswe're making, the bets we're making, the people
we are picking, it takes a lot longer than youthink.
And I'm talking about six to twelve monthsbeing on really, like, the short end of the
spectrum.
I I I see a lot of guys and I hear from a lotof guys who are like, man, I I hired this guy,
(14:35):
and I'm doing this thing, and he's just, youknow, man, it's been two months, and I'm just
not seeing, like, the I'm not seeing the drive.
I'm not seeing the result.
I'm not seeing the action.
I've talked to other people.
They're like, yeah, it's been, you know, it'sbeen six months, and I thought it was gonna be
different by now.
(14:57):
It takes a while.
Every time I hire somebody in our team,especially this day and age, I tell them, take
the first few months to just feel out what wedo.
This is I know this sounds kumbaya.
This blows a lot of people's minds, especiallypeople that are young in business or or new
(15:20):
business owners.
Like, take the first few months to just drinkfrom the fire hose.
Figure out the lay of the land.
Figure out what we do, how we do it.
Of course, we wanna cram as much into theirbrain as possible.
We don't wanna waste time.
But I cannot tell you how many times I havegone through a change where I give someone
(15:44):
responsibility or I give someone a task or Igive someone a portion of the company, and it
just takes longer to see it through than Iexpected.
I know I know, without a doubt, there arepeople that I have given up on way in my past
that probably deserved more rope, probablydeserved more runway.
(16:09):
It didn't work for me in the time, and so mybar was high.
They weren't delivering.
Got rid of them.
We're all on a journey.
And as I have made some of these decisions,I've let some people stay way too long.
I've let others go way too soon.
(16:30):
And I am just telling you through makingmultiple attempts at this, the longer you keep
someone, the the more you pour into them.
If they've got the foundational principlesright, if they're a good person, if they've got
the right talents, if they're intelligent, ifthey can interact with other people at a high
(16:53):
level.
Like, if you've got the right bones, likefundamental business bones, structure,
foundation, use whatever word you want,sometimes it takes a while just to find the
group.
I can't imagine sometimes I play this scenarioout in my own head.
I'm like, man, what would it look like if I washired tomorrow to run a new company?
(17:22):
What would it look like?
What would it look like if if, you know, youcan name a company, hired Keaton Turner
tomorrow to run a business unit or run acompany?
Well, I can tell you what I would ask for.
If an owner hired me and it's a it's a sub$100,000,000 company, so below a $100,000,000
(17:46):
in annual revenue, I'm going to ask forpatience.
Now, I'm gonna wanna learn like what okay,mister owner, what do you want from me?
What do you want out of this role?
Do you want quick action?
Do you want strategic action?
Because those two are opposite end of thespectrum.
(18:06):
What do you what do you want out of me?
But kind of regardless of what you wanna getout of Keaton Turner, I think my feedback is
like, look.
I'm going to taste a lot of things in thisorganization for the next several months,
(18:27):
probably six months.
Like, I don't really do you know how hard it isto get to know someone, like, truly get to know
them to where you can bet your career on themin a matter of six months?
Do you know how hard it is to build trust insix months where you fully trust someone?
(18:49):
Trust that they have your best interest, trustthat they care about the company.
Like, six months is not very much time at all.
And so the first thing I'm gonna do if I'm anewly hired president, CEO, vice president, mid
level manager, the first thing I'm gonna do issay, hey.
(19:12):
Be patient with me.
I'm gonna go figure out who I can trust.
I'm gonna figure out which process or lack ofprocesses you have.
I'm gonna go figure out where the low hangingfruit is for the responsibilities of my role.
(19:33):
If you're jumping into a young company, chancesare and I say young company.
Like, if you're jumping into a company that'snot existed for fifteen years or more, twenty
years or more, chances are there is low hangingfruit every direction you turn, in every
department.
(19:54):
And I'm only saying this because I know I mean,I'm speaking personally.
There is low hanging fruit, meaning things wecan improve in every department of an eight
year old business.
Every department.
Now we're working on it.
(20:15):
There are things that are improving, but ittakes time.
It takes trust.
It takes commitment.
It takes betting on people when results are notthere.
This is tough.
I mean, this is this is the one of thechallenges.
(20:36):
There's only a few people who this episode isactually going to resonate with, and that's
okay.
I don't I don't I don't do this for the massesanyway.
This is a tough one because a lot of folks,they only get three, four, five, six months,
maybe a year, and then they're out.
(20:59):
If an organization doesn't see results out ofyou, and and the mining industry is the worst
at this, if they don't see results out of youin a few months, you're gone.
Project managers, equipment operators, all theway up through the food chain, you don't get
much time.
We're a production based company.
(21:21):
Every day is a dollar.
A lot of dollars, actually.
Every day is a dollar.
And so if you're not producing today, how manydays do you get until you are producing?
And and, again, as someone who has livedthrough this and is trying to navigate an
organization full of people, a lot of newpeople, a lot of a lot of different process, a
(21:46):
lot of different controls, a lot of differentprocedure, the challenge is, do you believe in
people for the long term, or are you searchingfor a quick short term result?
There's a lot of companies out there.
(22:06):
They don't they cannot afford to bet on thelong term because the short term is so screwed
up.
I've been there.
I've wanted to bet on people for the long term,but I was in such dire straits that I need
short term results to get me through.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have made it through.
(22:26):
I had one guy at one time.
He would he would have been the right long termbet.
He was awesome.
Great guy.
Could do strategy, could do, you know, kind ofall he could not get us through the short term
crunch we were in, and so I couldn't stomachit.
(22:46):
I was like, dude, we've got to deliver shortterm results in order to even have a chance at
being a company long term.
There are different chapters where the shortterm, while it might not be great, it's not
completely a loss.
It's not completely on fire, and someone needsto be looking a little longer term to say, hey,
(23:12):
are are we gonna be in a good position a yearfrom now, two years, three years from now?
Some companies can't think about three yearsfrom now.
They have to think about tomorrow becausepayroll's due on Friday, and they don't have
any money in the account on Thursday.
(23:33):
This is the battle of someone who leads anorganization.
Do you navigate to short term results?
Do you make bets based on short term thinking?
Do you assign people in roles who have shortterm near side results that they're gonna
(23:59):
produce, or do you bet on the long term?
It's a tough one.
It's one that I again, having living havehaving lived through this now multiple times, I
think each chapter has its right bet, but I amconvinced where I sit now.
(24:23):
Things we do today, decisions we make today,best case scenario takes six months to play
out, and in more likely scenarios, take a yearto play out.
I've even had guys and and they're people thatare still on the team who eighteen months ago
(24:43):
or or twenty four months ago, was like, yeah.
There's no way.
They're not gonna make it.
They're not gonna make the jump.
They're not gonna learn enough.
They're not gonna they're not, like, they'renot gonna meet us where we are.
And I am so thankful that twenty where I sittoday, I am so thankful that twenty four months
ago, I believed in them.
(25:07):
I stayed with them.
I battled through the tough patch.
I was talking to my brother-in-law over theweekend on the lake, and he was like, man, I
you know, he he he's kinda climbing corporateAmerica ladder, and he was like, man, got a
person that I'm putting on a PIP.
I'm like, oh, that sucks.
(25:27):
A PIP is, for those that don't know, a PIP is aperformance improvement plan.
It's basically the writing on the wall thatyou're getting fired.
If you get put on a PIP, more times than not,more often than not, the company wants to fire
you.
They are just checking all the right boxes.
(25:48):
It's an HR practice.
Years ago, pips never even existed.
When someone wasn't producing results, you justfired them.
That was your performance improvement plan wasfiring someone and rehiring someone new.
Nowadays, especially, you know, in corporateAmerica, in order to fire someone, you first
(26:11):
put them on a performance improvement plan,meaning you document all the areas where
they're not currently performing, and you tellthem the bar that they need to get to in order
to achieve the PIP.
Get better in your job and you keep your job.
(26:31):
Don't get better in your job, you get fired.
That's essentially what a PIP is.
And he was talking about, man, I got this I gotthis person.
I gotta put him on a PIP.
It's frustrating.
I cannot tell you how many times someone,again, I'm speaking personally, Someone in my
(26:54):
mind, I thought there's no way they make it.
There's no way this person is here six monthsfrom now.
And if we bet on the right people at the righttime and we coach them through the right things
and we keep our head down and stay committed tothe journey, they have come out on the other
(27:21):
side so much more resilient, so much better, soso much more context into our business.
I think a lot of times, what what I've learnedis maybe we were just managing the person
incorrectly.
Maybe they they just weren't getting the rightfeedback.
(27:42):
Maybe they weren't getting the right list ofpriorities.
Maybe they just have way too much volume comingin.
They're trying to do way too much drinking fromthe fire hose.
Maybe we need to simplify their role.
I've learned I mean, this is I I I should stopsaying I've learned because I am learning.
(28:07):
I'm in the process of learning.
This is the beauty of being 36 trying to builda business.
You get to learn in real time.
And I am learning that betting on people whohave the right foundational qualities, the
right EQ, emotional intelligence, the right IQ,you give them enough time, they figure it out.
(28:34):
Every once in while, something clicks.
I've got I I've had a guy in the past who, youknow, bless his heart, like, two years into the
business, I was like, this is just not working.
I don't know what is going on.
It's not worth two years into the business.
All of a sudden, one day, something clicked.
(28:55):
It was like magic.
I was like, wait a second.
All this time, two years in, like, you wereactually learning.
You were picking things up.
You were getting context on the industry andour partners and how we do things and the
problems and the challenges.
And all of a sudden, it was like all the valuethat was not realized in two years, all of a
(29:19):
sudden, two years in, boom, that value all camein a windfall.
And I'm so glad that I have stayed faithful andcommitted to certain folks at times when it
looked like things just didn't make sense.
(29:43):
It was the wrong fit.
It was the wrong action.
It was the wrong result.
We're a results based company.
Like, I I talk all the time, results, results,results.
We care about results.
I have had to dramatically tone that backbecause we can start to adopt the hatchet man
mentality where we just get rid of people whodon't produce results.
(30:05):
I I personally have grown up loving thistheory.
Get rid of people that don't produce results.
If they don't produce results for your life,for your business, for your joy, for your
happiness, just get rid of them.
The reality is it's not that simple.
There are people that go through a tough timeand don't produce results.
(30:28):
There are people that go through a learningcurve.
There are people that go through a ramp up.
And if you get rid of them too soon before theyever produced any results, you might be cutting
them way short of the time where they didproduce a ton of results.
This is a tough one.
(30:50):
When's the right time?
When do you when do you bet on someone?
Bet on the process.
As some people say, bet on the come.
Right?
The for those of you guys that are, you know,craps players, like, when do you bet that it's
(31:10):
all gonna work out versus bet that it's time tomake a switch?
To me, how I evaluate this is potential.
Some people I am able to see a tremendouspotential in, but we're not there yet.
(31:34):
Some people I'm able to see like, oh, man.
You give this person two years, and they'rephenomenal.
Potential or ceiling.
We've used the word ceiling a lot in ourcompany.
Do they have a high ceiling?
If the answer is yes, if they've got a lot ofpotential, if they have a high ceiling, I think
(31:57):
it's your duty and obligation to get them totheir ceiling.
Now if you're working with someone who they'reat their ceiling, they're not gonna grow
anymore, they're not gonna become any moreintelligent, they're never gonna learn anymore,
they're not gonna get any more context on yourbusiness, They're not gonna get any better at
their role.
They're just they're just where they are.
(32:20):
If they're at their ceiling, I get uninspiredby those people very quickly.
Now, not to say they don't have a place on theteam, but for those people that are at their
ceiling, they have a specific role, and thatrole does not evolve or change because the
person does not evolve or change if they're attheir ceiling.
(32:43):
So that's the first thing.
I I evaluate, are they at their ceiling or no?
If the answer's no, the next question is, howdo I get them to their ceiling?
There's a ceiling there somewhere.
I don't know where it is, but they're notthere.
What do I need to do to expose them to reps,expose them to ball kickings, expose them to
(33:07):
the learnings that have to happen to get themto their ceiling?
That's that's how I think about it.
The second thing the second thing I think aboutis do they have the right fundamentals?
Do they have the right intangibles?
(33:28):
Are they respectful?
Are they trustworthy?
You know, do they live the values?
There's been times when I've had to overlookpeople who were super talented, but were
nowhere near living our values.
We're not a good human.
(33:48):
They were a jerk.
They were sleazy.
They were scammy.
Do they have the intangibles?
The stuff beyond just the day job.
Do people like them?
To me, that's an intangible.
Do they get along well with others?
Can they work in a team environment?
Do they have the intangibles?
(34:09):
And then the third one, this one's tough.
This one's tough to find.
Can they motivate other people?
Can they get people excited to follow them inthe battle, to do the work that, quite frankly,
a lot of people don't wanna do, to do a jobthat's beneath them for a period of time, to be
(34:34):
patient in a role for a period of time?
Like, can can they build soldiers?
If you can find someone that can buildsoldiers, and when I say build soldiers, what I
really mean is like, they can mentor others.
They can keep people inspired and motivated.
They can get people to take a job that maybe isbeneath them for a period of time while they
(34:56):
work their way up into the role.
Like, can they build an army behind them?
Do they have the fundamental core beliefs thatyou share, you know, core values, so on and so
forth?
And are they at their ceiling?
If you can answer those three questions and theperson isn't quite where you want them to be,
(35:22):
maybe they just need more time.
Maybe they just need more time.
I mean, to be honest with you, if if you've gotsomeone that can build soldiers and and one of
the key points to this is they bring peoplewith them.
I've had people that have hired on to ourcompany and, and never brought a single person
(35:43):
with them.
Never brought over one single person from theirpast life.
Some people do that by design.
Some people don't wanna bring people from theirpast life with them.
Other people wanna bring a lot of folks withthem.
I don't think there's any right or wrong, butit is definitely a data point when someone gets
hired onto a company and wants to bring peoplefrom other companies with them.
(36:09):
Because if people actually go, that sayssomething.
It says they can build soldiers.
Soldiers march when the leader says march.
And so when the leader joins a new force andsays, hey, I'm marching over here, sometimes
the soldiers go march over there.
That to me is a sign.
(36:29):
Same thing with the ceiling.
If if if you found someone that can buildsoldiers, that believes the same things you do,
that that shares the core values you do, andhas a higher ceiling than where they're
currently operating, you might just need togive them more time.
(36:53):
This one's tough.
This one's a tough one.
I know people are gonna send me a message.
They're gonna be like, man, I I hear all that.
That's great.
I hired Billy.
He came over here.
He brought Timmy and Johnny and Becky, but Ihaven't seen results yet.
We're three months in.
We're six months in.
We're eight months in.
(37:14):
I he's not killing it yet.
Maybe he just needs more time.
And I don't I don't love making excuses forpeople.
I don't.
I don't love letting people off the hook.
I mean, again, I I talk about results all thetime.
You are as good as the results you produce.
(37:37):
I believe that.
If you can't produce results, eventually, yougotta look yourself in the mirror and say, you
know what?
Maybe we're just no good.
Maybe I'm over my skis.
Maybe I'm maybe I'm not qualified.
But it takes time, especially, you know, I Iwould say the more developed an organization
(38:00):
is, the more time it takes.
There's a reason why some of these CEOs inthese big companies now are negotiating comp
packages that are tied to several years' worthof results, not just one year worth of results.
A CEO getting hired into a Fortune 500 orFortune 1,000 company, like, sure, there may be
(38:24):
some low hanging fruit they can come in andchange real quickly.
But for all intents and purposes, no CEO of afortune 500 company is jumping in and
dramatically changing the company in the firstsix months.
It's not happening.
It's just not.
And so, yeah, you can argue that you could jumpinto a mom and pop company or a small family
(38:46):
company and and really move the needle in acouple days or a few weeks or even a couple
months.
But for a company that's been around, that'sthat's that's it's it's turning a massive boat
around.
You ever tried to turn a massive boat around?
I was on a pontoon this past weekend, and I,you know, I was the captain of the boat, I got
(39:10):
to drive it.
I was like, dude, this thing, you can't turn itaround.
When the throttle's wide open, if you turn thesteering wheel full clock, the thing barely
turns.
It's not nimble.
It's not agile.
It likes to go in a straight line with nochange, and especially when the throttle's wide
(39:33):
open.
Now, sure, we could back all the way off thethrottle.
The thing will spin around on a dime, butyou're not going anywhere.
I think the same thing is true with companies.
If you are throttle wide open as a company andyou are down a path and you're used to the same
thing, you're doing the same things, it isreally hard to change.
It takes a long time.
(39:55):
And so if you're changing things today, itmight be six months or a year before you
recognize the fruits of the decision you made.
I have, it's been wild to watch.
It's been wild to watch it play out.
I have literally fired a guy, and then eightmonths later, been been ecstatic with the
(40:20):
results of our company, the financial results.
And I and I reward the new guy, and I'm like,yeah, dude.
Look.
Things are going great.
This this literally happened in the last fewyears.
I look at the new guy.
I'm like, yeah.
Things are going great.
You're killing it.
Little did I know, and I it took me a while toactually realize this in retrospect.
(40:40):
He shouldn't have gotten the the rewards of theresults.
It was the guy before him who had set all thisinto motion, and we're just now realizing it
eight months later with a new guy in in incharge.
And so some of this just, it just takes time.
Some of this you have to stay committed to.
You have to stay invested in.
(41:01):
I know some of my own guys are gonna listen tothis and be like, ah, here he is preaching
again.
Like, some of this just takes time.
And and I'm happy to be the one to say, I gaveit too much time.
To me, the lesser of the two evils is when Ilook at a chapter of our business, and a
(41:28):
chapter for us is, you know, two, three, fouryears as a chapter.
A four year chapter is a long chapter.
Most of our chapters have been two to threeyears.
I am happy to say that I gave a chapter toomuch time to see it play out because I have
(41:51):
given chapters too little time in the past, andI did not get to see them play out.
Now every chapter comes to an end.
You know, maybe maybe those were the rightdecisions in the time, but, you know, every
chapter deserves as many pages in the chapteras it takes to see it play out.
(42:12):
And if I end the chapter too soon, I don't getto realize the lessons that I'm learning in the
chapter.
I don't get to realize were those decisionsthat we originally decided on the right
decisions or not.
If Keaton Turner changed his mind every singleday when the wind blew or when a when a
(42:33):
financial result came in or, you know, a reportcame in or what if I change my mind, how do I
get to decide if I was, you know, correct in myoriginal thinking or not?
I haven't seen it play out.
Too often, business, especially small businessowners, make decisions too fluid, too quickly,
(43:00):
too spontaneous, and they don't get to seetheir prior decision play out.
They haven't given enough time.
This is what I'm learning.
This is why these big, old, stale companies areso slow to change.
They're they're living in a chapter.
They wanna see it play out.
(43:21):
They've made a bet on a CEO.
They've made a bet on a guy.
They wanna give him the right amount of time tosee if he can really, you know, right the ship
or deploy the strategy.
So this one's tough.
I, you know, I post this because or I droppedthis episode because I've seen some people
recently get bummed out about their year, andI'm not gonna call them out by name, but
(43:47):
there's some people that I follow on socialmedia.
There's some people that have messaged me onthe Perdium hotline.
They're you're bummed.
We're halfway through the year, and you'relooking at your year, and you're bummed out.
And you're like, you know what?
We didn't hit the financial metrics we wanted.
We didn't make the money we wanted.
We didn't land the customer we wanted.
We didn't do what we wanted, and you're bummedout.
(44:10):
And you're questioning yourself.
You're questioning your leadership team.
You're questioning the people that you dependon to do the work.
My question is, how much time have you givenit?
How much coaching have you given it?
How much patience have you deployed?
How much feedback?
(44:32):
Are the systems in place?
Do you have optics into what's working andwhat's not working?
Like, it's not always you.
It's not always the person.
There can be things in place or things not inplace that massively contribute to the result.
And so, you know, I just I wanted to throw thisout there because I think enough people are at
(44:58):
the point now where they're like, man, I'm justI'm not producing the results.
Something's gotta change, and then you changethe wrong And when you change the wrong thing,
it takes you a year, six months to a year,sometimes longer, to realize, oh, shoot.
I changed the wrong thing.
(45:19):
So so don't go just changing things just tochange them.
Give them time.
Commit to your decision.
You made a decision.
Commit to the decision.
See it through.
Get all the way to the end of the chapter.
And then when the chapter finally comes to aclose, then you can evaluate, hey.
That was a good chapter or a bad chapter.
(45:40):
So that's what I got.
I got a phone call coming in.
I got all kinds of things I gotta go do.
I didn't mean to rant on this one for as longas I did.
I appreciate the patience.
I appreciate the they're calling me back again.
I appreciate the patience.
I I I know I've failed some of you guys.
I owe some of you guys coffee mugs.
(46:01):
I promise the next batch is shipping outtomorrow.
I'm starting to think this was the worst ideaever to buy a bunch of coffee mugs and ship
them because I'm my kids are now back inschool, so I've lost my assembly line workers.
But I appreciate your patience.
I appreciate you guys believing in the pie.
Appreciate you tuning back in.
(46:23):
I don't want it to get stale.
I feel like it's been a little bit stalerecently as I'm nearing the 100 episode mark in
season two.
I'm, like, at that last leg of the marathonwhere I'm just pumping out what I can one foot
in front of the other.
But this is what was happening to me in myworld recently, and and I hope it helped
(46:48):
somebody out there.
Some of you guys that are, you know, notrunning a business, some of you guys that
aren't faced with this this situation of givingpeople more time or or chapters or whatever,
it's not gonna it's not gonna mean a ton toyou.
But for those of you guys that are goingthrough this, hopefully, helps something.
(47:09):
Don't don't make nearsighted decisions whenyou've got a long term vision, and don't make
long term decisions if you've got to makepayroll next week and you're dying on the vine.
Only you know when it's right to make thedecision, to make a pivot.
So I hope that was helpful.
Hope you're killing it.
Hope you're getting your per diem.
(47:30):
Hope you tune back in one more day.
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