October 16, 2023 • 44 mins
Burnout is not a buzzword—it's a pressing issue that's taking a toll on healthcare professionals. Together with Dr. Svetlana Chamoun, MD, PhD, DipABLM we uncover what burnout truly signifies and its impact on health care providers and patients.
Prepare to be inspired by Dr. Chamoun's upcoming books and her innovative wellness calendar. Plus, she lets us peek into her daily routine and shares her non-negotiables for meals, movement, mindset and overall health. Our conversation culminates in a powerful dialogue on the importance of positive health messages and stigma-free healthcare.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun, MD, PhD, DipABLM
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vesime (00:08):
Welcome to the Perfectly Planned Podcast, where we're
dedicated to growing with you onour journey towards a healthier
, happier and more sustainablelifestyle.
I'm your co-host, vesameShreering, health and wellness
enthusiast and loving all thingsplant-based.
Whether you're a seasoned veganor you're just dipping your
(00:29):
toes into plant-based living orjust curious about a healthier
lifestyle, you're in the rightplace.
Good morning, daphne.
How are you?
Daphne (00:38):
Good morning, vesame.
I'm doing good.
Thank you, it has been a busyweekend.
Thanks for taking time everyoneto join us today.
I want to start by giving ahuge shout out to the amazing
women who ran the IronmanTriathlon yesterday in Kona,
(00:58):
hawaii, and, more importantly,to Lucy Charles Barkley, who had
an amazing win yesterday andset a new course record.
I've been following LCB foryears.
Just the thought of swimming2.4 miles and biking 112 miles
and running 26 miles back toback it's an incredible feat.
(01:21):
I just want to acknowledge theamazing women who had center
stage all day and put on anincredible performance.
We all look up to you and weare all aspiring to be as
mentally and physicallyresilient as you are.
Talking about mental andphysical resilience, I'd like to
(01:44):
introduce another amazing woman, which is our guest, dr Lana
Shemun.
Dr Shemun, welcome to thePerfectly Planted Podcast.
Vesime (01:55):
Welcome.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (01:56):
Thank you so much, Vesame Daphne.
It's my pleasure to be heretoday.
Daphne (02:02):
Well, I was looking through your bio and there are
so many amazing things that youhave accomplished in this
industry.
I just want to highlight a fewfor those who are listening or
viewing, but really we're hereto hear your story.
Dr Shemun is an accomplishedleader in the healthcare
industry and she is recognizedfor her expertise in cardiology
(02:26):
and lifestyle medicine, which iswhere I had an opportunity to
meet her and get to know her.
But, more importantly, as thefounder and president of
CardioSeed's LLC and creator andhost of the CardioSeed's
podcast, which I woulddefinitely encourage you to
listen to, she just combines apassion for preventive
(02:48):
cardiology, preventive health,and a commitment to educating
and inspiring others, and that'swhether it's healthcare
professionals or just people inthe community.
And I think that's core to themessage.
With certification in bothcardiology and lifestyle
medicine and also beingcertified as a health and
(03:09):
wellness coach by AFPA, I thinkthis combination of skills the
health, the prevention, thefocus on mental and behavioral
health you've just found a coreway to develop a message and
connect with people, and we areso pleased to have you on the
podcast today.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (03:31):
Thank you so much, stephanie, for this
kind introduction and I guess,as you said before and as Bessie
said, as we all say, everybodyin lifestyle medicine has a
story to tell, right, and we'llbe chatting today about my story
and for me, as you said,blending lifestyle medicine and
(03:58):
cardiology and my furtheropening.
My business was not simple butit was kind of organic to me and
cardiovascular preventionthrough stress and burnout
reduction is a very personalstory to me because, first and
(04:20):
foremost, I'm a cardiologist whounderstands the cause effect
between work-related burnout anddevelopment of cardiovascular
disease and, secondly, Iexperience burnout firsthand,
and not once but twice, and I'mequipped also with resilience,
(04:41):
knowledge and tools to change mywork-life balance.
So I founded company CardioC,as you said, to help other
healthcare professionals advancetheir cardiovascular health and
overall wellness through stressand burnout reduction and other
pillars of lifestyle medicine.
So my story actually started inSoviet Ukraine and was filled
(05:04):
with rich culture and adversityalso, as well as triumphs and
tragedies.
So all those things shaped theperson I am now and the
professional I'm today, and Iwas raised in a family of
professionals and intellectuals.
My mom is Jewish.
(05:24):
My mom was a professor at theuniversity and she was very
strict and she was stern strict,raise in traditional values,
educate my traditional values.
At the same time, my dad wassort of a free spirit.
He was a journalist, adissident journalist who stood
(05:51):
against the government and paidthe price.
Actually, he was sent toSiberian Gulag and spent several
years in Siberian Gulag.
But before that happened hereally instilled this free
spirit in me and we traveledwith him extensively throughout
(06:11):
our country.
He showed me so many places andhe really instilled the spirit
of adventure in me.
And I entered medical schoolwhen I was 16 and by the age of
26, I had my medical degree andI had my PhD degree already.
So, unfortunately, when I wasabout 24, our country plunged
(06:37):
into the post-Soviet turmoil andwhen I was 26, I had to take my
daughters and immigrate tofirst Canada and then the US,
seek brighter future for myselfand my daughters, because there
was no future there at that timeat least.
And I literally you know whenthey say I thought it was a joke
(07:01):
in the past when people said Icame to this country with $200
in my pocket, one.
For me it was literallyspeaking $400 in my pocket and
closing on my back.
This is it.
I didn't even have language.
I didn't speak English when Icame to this country and then,
you know, shortly after I cameor we came, I received tragic
(07:25):
news of my dad's passing andthat shattered my world for
years to come.
And essentially, you know, I wasequipped with this resilience
and courage and young age atthat time.
So, and interestingly enough,my mom, who was a professor of
(07:49):
psychoanalysis, she wrote bookson self-care and resilience and
she published books on self-careand resilience.
So I had that knowledge with meand I persevered and despite
all those years of taking careas a single mom of my daughters
and you know, my mom wasshattered, you know, with this,
(08:10):
my dad's suicide and I had totake care of her, and all this
single-handedly, while goingthrough immigration and going
through several years ofretraining here in the United
States as a resident and then asa fellow, and going through
jobs as a cardiologist for 20years, you know.
You know long hours andgrueling jobs and all that stuff
(08:33):
.
All of that I survived and Ithrived somehow.
I don't know, I don't know howI did this, but somehow, not
only I did this, I sent mydaughters to college, I helped
my mom, I wrote books and then Irealized I've been doing all
this and this is all.
This spirit is living in me andI'm feeding other people with
(08:58):
my strength and my daughtersstarted telling me mom, you've
been doing all this and you aredoing it differently, not like
people back home, and you areinspired and asked to do some
things differently.
So, essentially, and then fastforward essentially to 2019, my
husband I read to my colleaguehere to a cardiologist and fast
(09:25):
forward 2019, he gives mebrochure for the American
College of Cardiology annualmeeting, the American College of
Lifestyle Medicine annualmeeting, and that changed my
life.
So it changed your life problem.
At some point it changed mylife and this is how I got more
(09:47):
certified in Lifestyle Medicinein addition to cardiology.
Then I got certified as ahealth and wellness coach and
essentially at that point alsothe COVID pandemic started and I
saw how they burn out, engulfedmedical community and also the
(10:11):
fact that the pillars ofLifestyle Medicine weren't
practiced among the mainstreammedicine, how much it affected
our patients also and theircardiovascular health and
chronic diseases.
How much they could have beenprevented and they were not
(10:33):
prevented and this affected thehealth and survivorship of our
patients from COVID, sonegatively affected it.
And so I realized that I couldcontribute to the positive part
of it with my knowledge ofLifestyle Medicine, my knowledge
(10:55):
of cardiology, my knowledge ofhealth and wellness and coaching
.
So I said 20 years ofcardiology is enough, so I can
do it differently.
I left my job and I started thecardio seeds.
So I started the cardio seedspodcast with that aim to
(11:17):
dedicate my services toLifestyle interventions,
behavioral coaching and aim forcardiovascular risk reduction
through stress reduction,through burnout reduction and
transformative powers ofLifestyle Medicine.
So this is my goal.
Now I co-chair the cardiologymember interest group at the
(11:42):
American College of LifestyleMedicine.
I also started the work-lifebalance and cardiovascular
health subcommittee within theMIG to expand the message that
the earlier we prevent chronicwork related stress, the earlier
(12:03):
we address widespread burnoutamong the health care
professionals, the morecardiovascular prevention among
our health care professionals wecan introduce.
So this is my goal and mymission now.
Vesime (12:20):
That's amazing.
Daphne (12:22):
That is amazing.
Vesime (12:24):
There's a little mission there, dr Shimon.
Your credentials alone areincredible, but just sharing
your journey just makes me putyou on a completely another
level.
It's extremely impressive andI'm curious, through all of this
, what really has driven you?
(12:45):
What is your?
Why?
Why is this work so importantto you?
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (12:53):
You know, at this stage of my career, I am
grateful that my actions andobjectives resonate deeply with
my personal professional values,so they all can come together
finally.
So I'm far moved beyond thephase of my life when I
(13:16):
struggled, you know, to struggleto put food on the table or
caring for my mom and send mydaughters to college.
So I have accomplished that.
I enjoy my life.
I enjoy it.
I'm completely financiallysecure, I'm comfortable with my
life, so I can do what I wantnow and what I think is
(13:38):
important.
So I think that promotingwellness of healthcare
professionals is one of the mostparamount importances of our
healthcare.
You know of the founding blocksthat our healthcare cannot live
(14:02):
without, because we are talkingabout, you know about patients,
investing in patients,investing in the AI, even in all
of those, all of those missionsthat healthcare systems have.
But without wellness and healthcare professionals, all of this
(14:24):
cannot be done or cannot bedone effectively, profoundly and
whole-simily.
So wellness of healthcareprofessionals starts on not only
on the personal level but alsoon the system level, and if we
(14:48):
don't address the system andpersonal all together, reasons
for chronic stress and burnout,all this will accumulate over
years and will be related tocardiovascular diseases,
disturbances, cardiovasculardiseases in our healthcare
(15:11):
professionals in the long run,in the long run, h12
fibrillation, hypertension,hyperlipidemia, coronary heart
disease, myocardial infarctions.
All of this is it doesn'thappen all together at once in
one month, one week.
All of this is accumulative, allcumulative and cause effect may
(15:35):
not be, you know, obvious formany and may not be reported as
much you follow me.
It may not be reported asrelated to stress or burnout,
but it's a very well-known causeeffect.
It's a very well-documentedcause effect.
(15:56):
So if we don't pay attention,raise awareness and reduce those
stresses, reduce that burnout,this will inevitably happen,
even though it may not bereported as such as a cause of
(16:19):
those cardiovascularcomplications.
But I think it can be done andI think it needs to start to be
done.
Vesime (16:29):
So, as a groundwork needs to start, yeah, no, I
completely agree, and I thinkit's so important because as we
fly on a flight, it's alwaysyour oxygen mask first and then
you help the others, right?
So this is correlating a bit.
But you mentioned being burnedout twice not once, but twice.
(16:51):
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
I mean, you must have firsthandexperience of that burnout and
the stress that now you're sopassionately to try and fix in
the healthcare for healthcareprofessionals.
Daphne (17:04):
And can you define what burnout is, because I think it's
a term a lot of people hear butdon't understand, yeah, burnout
.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (17:15):
So essentially burnout now is as a
burnout syndrome is an officialdiagnosis.
Entering that entered ICD-11actually, and that we have to be
thankful to Christina Maslakfrom UC Berkeley.
So it's a burnout syndrome,syndrome resulting from
(17:37):
excessive, chronic workplacestress.
That has not been resolved.
So Dr Maslak gave it a specificdefinition, she defined a
classic triad of symptoms andshe even developed a tool which
is called MBI, the MaslakBurnout Inventory.
(18:01):
It's like the questionnaire formedical professionals at 22
questions, and there is one formedical students, for other
professionals, so there aremultiple tools that one can use
for different populations.
So for medical professionalsthere's a specific tool and,
(18:27):
interestingly enough, theburnout can present differently
for female professionals and formale professionals.
For women, physicians, forinstance, or nurses or other
professionals there is a classictriad.
All three components arepresent the feeling of emotional
(18:50):
exhaustion, thendepersonalization and then
number three is like the feelingof the lack of accomplishment,
not like we're lacking anyaccomplishment, but we feel that
we may lack accomplishment.
And males, they don't feel thisway.
So they start withdepersonalization, then
(19:13):
emotional exhaustion, and thenthey always feel accomplished,
they feel like the best docsever, but people around them
start noticing cynicism, if I'lllet me cynicism.
So this is how people aroundmale docs know that they are
burning up.
So that's the key, that's theessential, the way for other
(19:36):
people to notice, but that's theburnout definition.
And it's important also to beable to distinguish between
stress, chronic stress andburnout itself.
So there is, dr Sellier.
They found, or rather describe,this stress curve right chronic
(20:03):
stress curve, or rather acuteto chronic and then to burnout
stress curve.
So stress is not linear, it'slike a bell shaped curve that
human beings, we are very, veryresilient and adaptable.
So our bodies and minds haveability to adapt to stresses and
(20:27):
chronic stresses.
But so stress starts withadaptation of our physiological
and mental mechanisms.
So, like our bodies, you know,like the heart rate goes up, the
blood pressure and the mentalacuity goes up, so we adapt to
(20:49):
optimal performance, naturally,like whether we are doing
performance and exam, test exam,for instance, or we have to
fight, literally speaking, thisis evolutionary.
You know, blood pressure andheart rate goes up to fight with
a bull, for instance, or with amammoth in the past, right, so
(21:12):
now we don't need to fight witha bull or mammoth, but it's
still the case.
But when those things go for avery long time.
They get exhausted.
Our bodies and minds getexhausted.
So this curve of optimalperformance goes eventually down
and down and down and down andour abilities to our resilience,
(21:36):
abilities to adapt, go down soand burnout inevitably start
manifesting as exhaustion,emotional, physical, etc.
Etc.
And then our ability toreplenish energy.
When the energy drain exceedsour ability to replenish energy,
it results in complete burnoutor complete exhaustion.
(22:01):
So that's the bottom line.
Daphne (22:06):
And do you?
I mean again, I know you saidthat the correlation between
this chronic stress burnout andthe cardiovascular disease, just
the general cardiometabolicdysfunction in healthcare
providers in general nurses,physicians, I mean every care
provider I think has beenimpacted the past four years?
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (22:30):
Pretty much.
It's not only that.
I mean there is statisticsbefore COVID-19, obviously so
and after and during and after.
So it's not like we've beendoing great before, right.
So it happened that we've beenjust languishing before COVID-19
(22:54):
.
The statistics haven't beengreat across the board, it's
just during COVID-19.
We just spiral it down as anoverall group of professionals,
but we have not been doing wellfor a while.
We have not been doing well fora while.
So the thing is that that curvethat we were talking about, we
(23:18):
can say it's a stress curve orwe can call it a languishing
curve.
So, according to sociology orsociological or like bureaus
like, for instance, dill-watt,they did the studies that you
know.
They studied groups of people,groups of workers, for instance
(23:44):
within the United States, andthey determined that a large
number of workers within ourcountry are, you know, within
the optimal maybe performance,like 60% or something like that,
and then about 10% or 15% atany given time we're talking
(24:07):
about are in the burnout stage.
Okay, in the burnout stage, butwhat's important about 30% or
so are shifting.
They're shifting all the timebetween the burnout and the
optimal performance.
So they are in that orange zonebetween the green and the red.
(24:31):
So, whatever you know, a smallepisode like you know, a bad day
at work or the illness of aloved one, or a dog dies right,
or something like that, canthrow them into the spiraling
(24:53):
down curve.
They can throw them fromoptimal performance into the
orange zone and, if somethingelse happens, from the orange
zone into the red zone ofburnout.
You follow me.
So it's very important that weknow how to replenish our energy
and how to reduce the drain ofthe energy on a daily basis to
(25:18):
prevent that shift from ouroptimal performance, from our
optimal energy level, to thatorange and that red zone of the
burnout, to prevent sliding tothat red zone.
So yes, our medical professionslides back and forth down that
(25:46):
curve.
You know, when a pandemic starts, we are at extremes of our
resilience.
Our resilience gets tested sobadly that we, literally
speaking, go down the ski slopeand then we drag ourselves up.
So now we are, you know, we aremuch better now, two years
(26:09):
later, three years later,because, number one, we can talk
to one another.
We can frankly discuss thingsthat we could not discuss before
and we are equipped with thispower of discussing things.
This is very important.
We had shores on our on oureyes.
(26:31):
Before that, and all thesecrecy, all the we were
completely you know, thisempowerment was taken away from
us.
Now we are empowered andmentorship and collective wisdom
is with us, thank God.
So one thing that came out ofcorporate is that it opened the
(26:57):
doors to Frank and opendiscussion and, thankfully, that
mental health issues aren't thesecret and aren't taboo anymore
.
Vesime (27:08):
So no, that's great.
I know that you, within yourcardio seeds platform, you
created this platform, or proessentially platform that can
now feed into certain programsand you have a program called
reclaim yes, is that?
So?
Maybe you could tell us alittle bit about reclaim and
(27:29):
maybe this is part of thesolution where you can help the
healthcare providers reclaimessentially reclaim their lives
and not necessarily spiralinginto that burnout stage.
Is that right?
Why don't we share a little bitmore about the program Sure?
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (27:44):
Reclaim is very, very simple.
It's very simple.
It's based on simple principles.
First, the idea of reclaim isreclaim and, literally speaking,
your best health, wellness,whatever you want to reclaim.
I ask people they are mainlyhealthcare professionals and now
(28:05):
at the moment they're mainlyphysicians in my program.
So what do you want, what areyour objectives from the program
?
What do you want to reclaim?
Some say I want to reclaim myfreedom from work.
I want to reclaim my bestmental state, my best ability to
(28:30):
be the best father, or my bestcardiovascular health or
whatever.
But reclaim is also an acronymthat stands for recognizing a
problem, evaluating, chartingthe course.
L stands for love that we startpracticing, love for self and
(28:55):
others, a take an action andother things, and I for doing
other things.
So we have the whole bunch ofacronyms for each letter and for
mentorship, etc.
(29:15):
So each letter stands for thewhole bunch of things.
But what we do there isessentially we facilitate growth
mindset and we achieve thingsthrough mainly not only through
(29:36):
the pillars of lifestylemedicine, but also we introduce
a lot of behavioral coaching.
Sustainability I push thatthings become sustainable for
them.
Creativity is number one toolthat I push with them.
(29:58):
And how do I push that.
I say we are short.
Shores are on our eyes, putthere by years and years of this
focus on our goal and our tasksand medicine.
So we are intrinsically peoplewith open mind, creative.
(30:23):
We are born creative, eachperson is born creative, and
then years of this medicaltraining took creativity out of
us.
You know, put us on this trackof do like you're told to do and
like be like everybody else so.
(30:44):
But we are intrinsically verycreative, we are leaders and we
are very resilient.
So show me your creativity.
You know, write your story,write your book, write your life
story, show me your future.
So we are writing together.
(31:07):
They are writing and some ofthem are drawing, some of them
are painting, some of them aredoing photography.
So all of those things we arecreating, a final product for
each one of them.
So in the final product,actually creates a shape.
I mean, you know, takes a shapeof either a book or a calendar
(31:31):
or something else.
So, and that stays with them asa product that shows them their
journey from point A point B,where they were before the
program and where they came,what they became after the
program.
And it's very telling for manypeople.
Daphne (31:56):
Yeah, and I mean Dr Shimun, that program listening
to where your podcast started,where you're going now, where
you're doing what you're doingwith Reclaim, what's next on the
horizon for you?
How do you expand the message?
Where else are you taking this?
How do you continue to fosterthe work that you're doing?
(32:18):
Sure, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (32:21):
I wrote two books.
One of them is behind me, I'llshow you.
Okay.
So this one.
So both of them are coming outnext month.
So this one is calledResilience in Scrubs thriving as
a woman resident physician.
So I wrote this bookspecifically to empower women
(32:44):
resident physicians.
I think it's very important toempower our next generation of
physicians to encounterchallenges that often differ
from our male peers.
Right and despite all theadvancements in medical field,
we grapple with disparities andvery specific pressures.
(33:10):
So this book, hopefully, willhelp them to confront these
challenges head on, and it'skind of a one-stop reference
packed with careful, selectedresources.
I really took my time to selectresources, put together
(33:31):
toolkits on topics like genderdynamics and medicine,
resilience and wellnessEverything from my perspective,
what I thought could be helpful20, 25, 30 years ago when I was
going through the residency andhow I see through my eyes now,
like salary negotiations, worklife, family integration,
(33:52):
embracing leadership roles, evenexploring career pivots,
personal wellness, much, muchmore.
So this is I think it would behelpful.
So I also wrote a book thatkind of goes very close to this,
but not for the residents butfor women physicians.
(34:13):
So women physicians, it'scalled Women Physician Essential
Survival Guide.
I don't have it here becauseit's in print now.
So women physician essentialsurvival guide tools and
resources for thriving inmedicine.
So that would be specificallyfor women practice in physicians
(34:36):
.
And also I wanted to show youthis.
This is a proof copy, but thisis a 2024, if you can see I'm
not sure 2024 physician wellnesscalendar.
This is not a final version ofit.
The final version is in printnow.
(34:58):
So this all will be my pictures.
So this they.
You know I changed the design alittle bit, but the essence is
the same.
So I put every month will havelike a motivational, the
motivational theme and alsopersonal wellness goals for
(35:20):
physicians and professional andso what you do for yourself this
is kind of you know, monthlysmart goals, what you do for
your wellness, for yourself andat your workplace.
This are very doable doable andthey change every month.
This is my Yorkshire area.
(35:42):
I took all these pictures, soand these are doable I did this.
If I could do this, everybodycan do this.
If I'm so, I made sure that Iwant people to thrive.
I don't want people to continueburning out.
(36:03):
I really don't.
So this is my smallcontribution for this year, for
this upcoming year, and I'mgoing to bring a copy of each to
Lifestyle Medicine 2023, whenI'm meeting in Denver, to show
to you guys, to show what we,where we're going.
(36:24):
So this is my next step to justcontribute to the wellness of
physicians in real way, likethis way.
Vesime (36:34):
I love that and you mentioned that you, you know
you've done the goals, bothpersonal and professional, which
is amazing because you havefirsthand what we always love to
do here on Perfectly Pinnadish.
Ask our guests and I will askyou the same question really to
give us a day in the life, ofyour life, really, when it comes
(36:55):
to your meals, your movement,your, you know, overall health
and wellness, some of the thingsthat are non-negotiable for you
and some things that are yourfavorite things to do.
We would love to hear.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (37:09):
Oh sure, oh, like with my okay.
Vesime (37:15):
What time do you wake up ?
In the morning?
I didn't do it.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (37:21):
That's so cool, actually.
Yeah, so I am my own boss now,so no, pressure whatsoever now.
I don't get out of bed before7.30.
So 7.30 is my wake up time.
In the morning my husband andwe take three day weekend now,
so we are Saturday, sunday andMonday.
(37:43):
My husband and I are weekends,so in the morning we're always
playtime with our 14 year oldYorkie, always, and coffee,
always together about an hour.
We spend time with my husbandand your shirt Terrier plane.
We are pescatarian.
(38:04):
We eat fish three times a week.
The rest we eat whole food,plant-based diet.
We cook at home about 9.95% ofmeals and he takes leftovers for
lunch.
He works as a full-timecardiologist I mean four days a
week, cardiologist at the largehospital here about six minutes
(38:27):
away.
Movement I work from home.
I do all the stretches that Ido what I preach essentially I
swim for one hour every day.
We walk the dog together for 30minutes every week every night
(38:48):
and on weekends we walk for oneand a half hours every day.
Saturday, sunday and Monday.
Social connection we have ouradult daughters.
We have group chat with themand we chat every day at least
once a day, send in pictures.
We have grandchildren with themin pictures, recipes, jokes,
(39:10):
etc.
At least once a day, sometimesfour, five, ten times a day.
It depends and it's beenconsistent for the past 15 years
.
I actually believe that.
And meeting up lunch dinnerevery month, sleep stress.
So my bedroom, our bedroom, isfree from cable TV, phones,
lights or clocks.
(39:31):
That's it, completely Weekends,no social media, complete
social media and digital detox.
I do daily breathing andmeditation and for hobbies I do
jewelry making, crafts andgardening for my husband, and
(39:51):
those activities are completelyfor the sake of joy.
That's all and that's all.
Vesime (39:59):
That's all Two books and photography.
You must be a fantasticphotographer if you took those
beautiful pictures on yourupcoming calendar.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (40:08):
No, just no, just, that's all.
Oh, and that's, and that's mygrandchildren.
Oh cute, speaking of exchangingpictures all the time, I wonder
if they just send it to me.
Oh great.
Daphne (40:23):
Dr Shimon, I just want to follow up on your first, the
first book you shared, because Ido think I was talking to a
medical student that I've beenmentoring for years and I do
think we need to move theseconversations upstream Because
the it's easy to cultivateattitudes and behaviors, as
(40:49):
you're going through training,that result in Not the most
empathetic caring providers thatwe need, one not caring for
themselves and two not knowinghow to care for the people that
we serve.
So I mean, I don't know how tostart to introduce that, even
(41:11):
from a medical educationperspective, but I applaud the
fact that you wrote such a bookbecause I know in training, even
when we would go to our Academymeetings, there was usually a
women's group that would gettogether and talk about how we
need to show up differently andwhat we need to do differently
as women in this profession.
(41:32):
Women of color is a wholenother layer of stress.
Yeah, but my point is that ifyou can start to even have
conversations with ACGME or withmedical schools, that would be
wonderful.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (41:51):
Yeah, that would be.
That would be most importantand definitely I would be happy
to do.
You know, to talk to anybodyand everybody, because you know
I am.
I experienced so many things inmy life that you know, short of
(42:14):
being a woman of color, butethnocentric things that I went
through or I'm just a heart todescribe that they experienced,
and so I know so well thingsthat are related to diversity
(42:36):
and minorities and I can relateto them so well.
Yeah, and empathy that we needto express to one another is
very important and women women,mentorship and sponsorship and
support is a paramount priorityin this profession.
Daphne (42:56):
Agreed, agreed, which is why we are so thankful that you
are able to join us today,because you're I mean when I
first heard you at the HeelGroup you're just such an
example for so many of us, andthis is a very important message
.
So, thank you, we appreciateyou, thank you so much for
(43:16):
having me and, to those of youwho are listening and watching,
we hope that you have gained newseeds of knowledge and ideas.
Again, we're here to plantseeds of positivity.
If you have a healthcareprofessional in your life who
would benefit from hearing this,please share.
(43:37):
Please share with them.
We'll provide you links to DrShumman's website, her social
media links, but we need toremove the stigma of having
these conversations, and this iswhy it's important to have all
of you share the message, bothas your own personal and
professional journey, but toshare this with others.
(43:59):
So, thank you.
If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe.
We welcome your feedback andcomments on other amazing
speakers like Dr Shumman that wecan have, so that we can
continue to plant those seeds ofpositivity and empowerment that
make this such an importantopportunity for all of us to
(44:21):
achieve our best life possible.
We appreciate you, dr Shumman,we appreciate you and until next
time be well.
Thank you, be well.
Welcome to the Perfectly Planned Podcast, where we're
dedicated to growing with you onour journey towards a healthier
, happier and more sustainablelifestyle.
I'm your co-host, vesameShreering, health and wellness
enthusiast and loving all thingsplant-based.
Whether you're a seasoned veganor you're just dipping your
(00:29):
toes into plant-based living orjust curious about a healthier
lifestyle, you're in the rightplace.
Good morning, daphne.
How are you?
Daphne (00:38):
Good morning, vesame.
I'm doing good.
Thank you, it has been a busyweekend.
Thanks for taking time everyoneto join us today.
I want to start by giving ahuge shout out to the amazing
women who ran the IronmanTriathlon yesterday in Kona,
(00:58):
hawaii, and, more importantly,to Lucy Charles Barkley, who had
an amazing win yesterday andset a new course record.
I've been following LCB foryears.
Just the thought of swimming2.4 miles and biking 112 miles
and running 26 miles back toback it's an incredible feat.
(01:21):
I just want to acknowledge theamazing women who had center
stage all day and put on anincredible performance.
We all look up to you and weare all aspiring to be as
mentally and physicallyresilient as you are.
Talking about mental andphysical resilience, I'd like to
(01:44):
introduce another amazing woman, which is our guest, dr Lana
Shemun.
Dr Shemun, welcome to thePerfectly Planted Podcast.
Vesime (01:55):
Welcome.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (01:56):
Thank you so much, Vesame Daphne.
It's my pleasure to be heretoday.
Daphne (02:02):
Well, I was looking through your bio and there are
so many amazing things that youhave accomplished in this
industry.
I just want to highlight a fewfor those who are listening or
viewing, but really we're hereto hear your story.
Dr Shemun is an accomplishedleader in the healthcare
industry and she is recognizedfor her expertise in cardiology
(02:26):
and lifestyle medicine, which iswhere I had an opportunity to
meet her and get to know her.
But, more importantly, as thefounder and president of
CardioSeed's LLC and creator andhost of the CardioSeed's
podcast, which I woulddefinitely encourage you to
listen to, she just combines apassion for preventive
(02:48):
cardiology, preventive health,and a commitment to educating
and inspiring others, and that'swhether it's healthcare
professionals or just people inthe community.
And I think that's core to themessage.
With certification in bothcardiology and lifestyle
medicine and also beingcertified as a health and
(03:09):
wellness coach by AFPA, I thinkthis combination of skills the
health, the prevention, thefocus on mental and behavioral
health you've just found a coreway to develop a message and
connect with people, and we areso pleased to have you on the
podcast today.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (03:31):
Thank you so much, stephanie, for this
kind introduction and I guess,as you said before and as Bessie
said, as we all say, everybodyin lifestyle medicine has a
story to tell, right, and we'llbe chatting today about my story
and for me, as you said,blending lifestyle medicine and
(03:58):
cardiology and my furtheropening.
My business was not simple butit was kind of organic to me and
cardiovascular preventionthrough stress and burnout
reduction is a very personalstory to me because, first and
(04:20):
foremost, I'm a cardiologist whounderstands the cause effect
between work-related burnout anddevelopment of cardiovascular
disease and, secondly, Iexperience burnout firsthand,
and not once but twice, and I'mequipped also with resilience,
(04:41):
knowledge and tools to change mywork-life balance.
So I founded company CardioC,as you said, to help other
healthcare professionals advancetheir cardiovascular health and
overall wellness through stressand burnout reduction and other
pillars of lifestyle medicine.
So my story actually started inSoviet Ukraine and was filled
(05:04):
with rich culture and adversityalso, as well as triumphs and
tragedies.
So all those things shaped theperson I am now and the
professional I'm today, and Iwas raised in a family of
professionals and intellectuals.
My mom is Jewish.
(05:24):
My mom was a professor at theuniversity and she was very
strict and she was stern strict,raise in traditional values,
educate my traditional values.
At the same time, my dad wassort of a free spirit.
He was a journalist, adissident journalist who stood
(05:51):
against the government and paidthe price.
Actually, he was sent toSiberian Gulag and spent several
years in Siberian Gulag.
But before that happened hereally instilled this free
spirit in me and we traveledwith him extensively throughout
(06:11):
our country.
He showed me so many places andhe really instilled the spirit
of adventure in me.
And I entered medical schoolwhen I was 16 and by the age of
26, I had my medical degree andI had my PhD degree already.
So, unfortunately, when I wasabout 24, our country plunged
(06:37):
into the post-Soviet turmoil andwhen I was 26, I had to take my
daughters and immigrate tofirst Canada and then the US,
seek brighter future for myselfand my daughters, because there
was no future there at that timeat least.
And I literally you know whenthey say I thought it was a joke
(07:01):
in the past when people said Icame to this country with $200
in my pocket, one.
For me it was literallyspeaking $400 in my pocket and
closing on my back.
This is it.
I didn't even have language.
I didn't speak English when Icame to this country and then,
you know, shortly after I cameor we came, I received tragic
(07:25):
news of my dad's passing andthat shattered my world for
years to come.
And essentially, you know, I wasequipped with this resilience
and courage and young age atthat time.
So, and interestingly enough,my mom, who was a professor of
(07:49):
psychoanalysis, she wrote bookson self-care and resilience and
she published books on self-careand resilience.
So I had that knowledge with meand I persevered and despite
all those years of taking careas a single mom of my daughters
and you know, my mom wasshattered, you know, with this,
(08:10):
my dad's suicide and I had totake care of her, and all this
single-handedly, while goingthrough immigration and going
through several years ofretraining here in the United
States as a resident and then asa fellow, and going through
jobs as a cardiologist for 20years, you know.
You know long hours andgrueling jobs and all that stuff
(08:33):
.
All of that I survived and Ithrived somehow.
I don't know, I don't know howI did this, but somehow, not
only I did this, I sent mydaughters to college, I helped
my mom, I wrote books and then Irealized I've been doing all
this and this is all.
This spirit is living in me andI'm feeding other people with
(08:58):
my strength and my daughtersstarted telling me mom, you've
been doing all this and you aredoing it differently, not like
people back home, and you areinspired and asked to do some
things differently.
So, essentially, and then fastforward essentially to 2019, my
husband I read to my colleaguehere to a cardiologist and fast
(09:25):
forward 2019, he gives mebrochure for the American
College of Cardiology annualmeeting, the American College of
Lifestyle Medicine annualmeeting, and that changed my
life.
So it changed your life problem.
At some point it changed mylife and this is how I got more
(09:47):
certified in Lifestyle Medicinein addition to cardiology.
Then I got certified as ahealth and wellness coach and
essentially at that point alsothe COVID pandemic started and I
saw how they burn out, engulfedmedical community and also the
(10:11):
fact that the pillars ofLifestyle Medicine weren't
practiced among the mainstreammedicine, how much it affected
our patients also and theircardiovascular health and
chronic diseases.
How much they could have beenprevented and they were not
(10:33):
prevented and this affected thehealth and survivorship of our
patients from COVID, sonegatively affected it.
And so I realized that I couldcontribute to the positive part
of it with my knowledge ofLifestyle Medicine, my knowledge
(10:55):
of cardiology, my knowledge ofhealth and wellness and coaching
.
So I said 20 years ofcardiology is enough, so I can
do it differently.
I left my job and I started thecardio seeds.
So I started the cardio seedspodcast with that aim to
(11:17):
dedicate my services toLifestyle interventions,
behavioral coaching and aim forcardiovascular risk reduction
through stress reduction,through burnout reduction and
transformative powers ofLifestyle Medicine.
So this is my goal.
Now I co-chair the cardiologymember interest group at the
(11:42):
American College of LifestyleMedicine.
I also started the work-lifebalance and cardiovascular
health subcommittee within theMIG to expand the message that
the earlier we prevent chronicwork related stress, the earlier
(12:03):
we address widespread burnoutamong the health care
professionals, the morecardiovascular prevention among
our health care professionals wecan introduce.
So this is my goal and mymission now.
Vesime (12:20):
That's amazing.
Daphne (12:22):
That is amazing.
Vesime (12:24):
There's a little mission there, dr Shimon.
Your credentials alone areincredible, but just sharing
your journey just makes me putyou on a completely another
level.
It's extremely impressive andI'm curious, through all of this
, what really has driven you?
(12:45):
What is your?
Why?
Why is this work so importantto you?
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (12:53):
You know, at this stage of my career, I am
grateful that my actions andobjectives resonate deeply with
my personal professional values,so they all can come together
finally.
So I'm far moved beyond thephase of my life when I
(13:16):
struggled, you know, to struggleto put food on the table or
caring for my mom and send mydaughters to college.
So I have accomplished that.
I enjoy my life.
I enjoy it.
I'm completely financiallysecure, I'm comfortable with my
life, so I can do what I wantnow and what I think is
(13:38):
important.
So I think that promotingwellness of healthcare
professionals is one of the mostparamount importances of our
healthcare.
You know of the founding blocksthat our healthcare cannot live
(14:02):
without, because we are talkingabout, you know about patients,
investing in patients,investing in the AI, even in all
of those, all of those missionsthat healthcare systems have.
But without wellness and healthcare professionals, all of this
(14:24):
cannot be done or cannot bedone effectively, profoundly and
whole-simily.
So wellness of healthcareprofessionals starts on not only
on the personal level but alsoon the system level, and if we
(14:48):
don't address the system andpersonal all together, reasons
for chronic stress and burnout,all this will accumulate over
years and will be related tocardiovascular diseases,
disturbances, cardiovasculardiseases in our healthcare
(15:11):
professionals in the long run,in the long run, h12
fibrillation, hypertension,hyperlipidemia, coronary heart
disease, myocardial infarctions.
All of this is it doesn'thappen all together at once in
one month, one week.
All of this is accumulative, allcumulative and cause effect may
(15:35):
not be, you know, obvious formany and may not be reported as
much you follow me.
It may not be reported asrelated to stress or burnout,
but it's a very well-known causeeffect.
It's a very well-documentedcause effect.
(15:56):
So if we don't pay attention,raise awareness and reduce those
stresses, reduce that burnout,this will inevitably happen,
even though it may not bereported as such as a cause of
(16:19):
those cardiovascularcomplications.
But I think it can be done andI think it needs to start to be
done.
Vesime (16:29):
So, as a groundwork needs to start, yeah, no, I
completely agree, and I thinkit's so important because as we
fly on a flight, it's alwaysyour oxygen mask first and then
you help the others, right?
So this is correlating a bit.
But you mentioned being burnedout twice not once, but twice.
(16:51):
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
I mean, you must have firsthandexperience of that burnout and
the stress that now you're sopassionately to try and fix in
the healthcare for healthcareprofessionals.
Daphne (17:04):
And can you define what burnout is, because I think it's
a term a lot of people hear butdon't understand, yeah, burnout
.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (17:15):
So essentially burnout now is as a
burnout syndrome is an officialdiagnosis.
Entering that entered ICD-11actually, and that we have to be
thankful to Christina Maslakfrom UC Berkeley.
So it's a burnout syndrome,syndrome resulting from
(17:37):
excessive, chronic workplacestress.
That has not been resolved.
So Dr Maslak gave it a specificdefinition, she defined a
classic triad of symptoms andshe even developed a tool which
is called MBI, the MaslakBurnout Inventory.
(18:01):
It's like the questionnaire formedical professionals at 22
questions, and there is one formedical students, for other
professionals, so there aremultiple tools that one can use
for different populations.
So for medical professionalsthere's a specific tool and,
(18:27):
interestingly enough, theburnout can present differently
for female professionals and formale professionals.
For women, physicians, forinstance, or nurses or other
professionals there is a classictriad.
All three components arepresent the feeling of emotional
(18:50):
exhaustion, thendepersonalization and then
number three is like the feelingof the lack of accomplishment,
not like we're lacking anyaccomplishment, but we feel that
we may lack accomplishment.
And males, they don't feel thisway.
So they start withdepersonalization, then
(19:13):
emotional exhaustion, and thenthey always feel accomplished,
they feel like the best docsever, but people around them
start noticing cynicism, if I'lllet me cynicism.
So this is how people aroundmale docs know that they are
burning up.
So that's the key, that's theessential, the way for other
(19:36):
people to notice, but that's theburnout definition.
And it's important also to beable to distinguish between
stress, chronic stress andburnout itself.
So there is, dr Sellier.
They found, or rather describe,this stress curve right chronic
(20:03):
stress curve, or rather acuteto chronic and then to burnout
stress curve.
So stress is not linear, it'slike a bell shaped curve that
human beings, we are very, veryresilient and adaptable.
So our bodies and minds haveability to adapt to stresses and
(20:27):
chronic stresses.
But so stress starts withadaptation of our physiological
and mental mechanisms.
So, like our bodies, you know,like the heart rate goes up, the
blood pressure and the mentalacuity goes up, so we adapt to
(20:49):
optimal performance, naturally,like whether we are doing
performance and exam, test exam,for instance, or we have to
fight, literally speaking, thisis evolutionary.
You know, blood pressure andheart rate goes up to fight with
a bull, for instance, or with amammoth in the past, right, so
(21:12):
now we don't need to fight witha bull or mammoth, but it's
still the case.
But when those things go for avery long time.
They get exhausted.
Our bodies and minds getexhausted.
So this curve of optimalperformance goes eventually down
and down and down and down andour abilities to our resilience,
(21:36):
abilities to adapt, go down soand burnout inevitably start
manifesting as exhaustion,emotional, physical, etc.
Etc.
And then our ability toreplenish energy.
When the energy drain exceedsour ability to replenish energy,
it results in complete burnoutor complete exhaustion.
(22:01):
So that's the bottom line.
Daphne (22:06):
And do you?
I mean again, I know you saidthat the correlation between
this chronic stress burnout andthe cardiovascular disease, just
the general cardiometabolicdysfunction in healthcare
providers in general nurses,physicians, I mean every care
provider I think has beenimpacted the past four years?
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (22:30):
Pretty much.
It's not only that.
I mean there is statisticsbefore COVID-19, obviously so
and after and during and after.
So it's not like we've beendoing great before, right.
So it happened that we've beenjust languishing before COVID-19
(22:54):
.
The statistics haven't beengreat across the board, it's
just during COVID-19.
We just spiral it down as anoverall group of professionals,
but we have not been doing wellfor a while.
We have not been doing well fora while.
So the thing is that that curvethat we were talking about, we
(23:18):
can say it's a stress curve orwe can call it a languishing
curve.
So, according to sociology orsociological or like bureaus
like, for instance, dill-watt,they did the studies that you
know.
They studied groups of people,groups of workers, for instance
(23:44):
within the United States, andthey determined that a large
number of workers within ourcountry are, you know, within
the optimal maybe performance,like 60% or something like that,
and then about 10% or 15% atany given time we're talking
(24:07):
about are in the burnout stage.
Okay, in the burnout stage, butwhat's important about 30% or
so are shifting.
They're shifting all the timebetween the burnout and the
optimal performance.
So they are in that orange zonebetween the green and the red.
(24:31):
So, whatever you know, a smallepisode like you know, a bad day
at work or the illness of aloved one, or a dog dies right,
or something like that, canthrow them into the spiraling
(24:53):
down curve.
They can throw them fromoptimal performance into the
orange zone and, if somethingelse happens, from the orange
zone into the red zone ofburnout.
You follow me.
So it's very important that weknow how to replenish our energy
and how to reduce the drain ofthe energy on a daily basis to
(25:18):
prevent that shift from ouroptimal performance, from our
optimal energy level, to thatorange and that red zone of the
burnout, to prevent sliding tothat red zone.
So yes, our medical professionslides back and forth down that
(25:46):
curve.
You know, when a pandemic starts, we are at extremes of our
resilience.
Our resilience gets tested sobadly that we, literally
speaking, go down the ski slopeand then we drag ourselves up.
So now we are, you know, we aremuch better now, two years
(26:09):
later, three years later,because, number one, we can talk
to one another.
We can frankly discuss thingsthat we could not discuss before
and we are equipped with thispower of discussing things.
This is very important.
We had shores on our on oureyes.
(26:31):
Before that, and all thesecrecy, all the we were
completely you know, thisempowerment was taken away from
us.
Now we are empowered andmentorship and collective wisdom
is with us, thank God.
So one thing that came out ofcorporate is that it opened the
(26:57):
doors to Frank and opendiscussion and, thankfully, that
mental health issues aren't thesecret and aren't taboo anymore
.
Vesime (27:08):
So no, that's great.
I know that you, within yourcardio seeds platform, you
created this platform, or proessentially platform that can
now feed into certain programsand you have a program called
reclaim yes, is that?
So?
Maybe you could tell us alittle bit about reclaim and
(27:29):
maybe this is part of thesolution where you can help the
healthcare providers reclaimessentially reclaim their lives
and not necessarily spiralinginto that burnout stage.
Is that right?
Why don't we share a little bitmore about the program Sure?
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (27:44):
Reclaim is very, very simple.
It's very simple.
It's based on simple principles.
First, the idea of reclaim isreclaim and, literally speaking,
your best health, wellness,whatever you want to reclaim.
I ask people they are mainlyhealthcare professionals and now
(28:05):
at the moment they're mainlyphysicians in my program.
So what do you want, what areyour objectives from the program
?
What do you want to reclaim?
Some say I want to reclaim myfreedom from work.
I want to reclaim my bestmental state, my best ability to
(28:30):
be the best father, or my bestcardiovascular health or
whatever.
But reclaim is also an acronymthat stands for recognizing a
problem, evaluating, chartingthe course.
L stands for love that we startpracticing, love for self and
(28:55):
others, a take an action andother things, and I for doing
other things.
So we have the whole bunch ofacronyms for each letter and for
mentorship, etc.
(29:15):
So each letter stands for thewhole bunch of things.
But what we do there isessentially we facilitate growth
mindset and we achieve thingsthrough mainly not only through
(29:36):
the pillars of lifestylemedicine, but also we introduce
a lot of behavioral coaching.
Sustainability I push thatthings become sustainable for
them.
Creativity is number one toolthat I push with them.
(29:58):
And how do I push that.
I say we are short.
Shores are on our eyes, putthere by years and years of this
focus on our goal and our tasksand medicine.
So we are intrinsically peoplewith open mind, creative.
(30:23):
We are born creative, eachperson is born creative, and
then years of this medicaltraining took creativity out of
us.
You know, put us on this trackof do like you're told to do and
like be like everybody else so.
(30:44):
But we are intrinsically verycreative, we are leaders and we
are very resilient.
So show me your creativity.
You know, write your story,write your book, write your life
story, show me your future.
So we are writing together.
(31:07):
They are writing and some ofthem are drawing, some of them
are painting, some of them aredoing photography.
So all of those things we arecreating, a final product for
each one of them.
So in the final product,actually creates a shape.
I mean, you know, takes a shapeof either a book or a calendar
(31:31):
or something else.
So, and that stays with them asa product that shows them their
journey from point A point B,where they were before the
program and where they came,what they became after the
program.
And it's very telling for manypeople.
Daphne (31:56):
Yeah, and I mean Dr Shimun, that program listening
to where your podcast started,where you're going now, where
you're doing what you're doingwith Reclaim, what's next on the
horizon for you?
How do you expand the message?
Where else are you taking this?
How do you continue to fosterthe work that you're doing?
(32:18):
Sure, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (32:21):
I wrote two books.
One of them is behind me, I'llshow you.
Okay.
So this one.
So both of them are coming outnext month.
So this one is calledResilience in Scrubs thriving as
a woman resident physician.
So I wrote this bookspecifically to empower women
(32:44):
resident physicians.
I think it's very important toempower our next generation of
physicians to encounterchallenges that often differ
from our male peers.
Right and despite all theadvancements in medical field,
we grapple with disparities andvery specific pressures.
(33:10):
So this book, hopefully, willhelp them to confront these
challenges head on, and it'skind of a one-stop reference
packed with careful, selectedresources.
I really took my time to selectresources, put together
(33:31):
toolkits on topics like genderdynamics and medicine,
resilience and wellnessEverything from my perspective,
what I thought could be helpful20, 25, 30 years ago when I was
going through the residency andhow I see through my eyes now,
like salary negotiations, worklife, family integration,
(33:52):
embracing leadership roles, evenexploring career pivots,
personal wellness, much, muchmore.
So this is I think it would behelpful.
So I also wrote a book thatkind of goes very close to this,
but not for the residents butfor women physicians.
(34:13):
So women physicians, it'scalled Women Physician Essential
Survival Guide.
I don't have it here becauseit's in print now.
So women physician essentialsurvival guide tools and
resources for thriving inmedicine.
So that would be specificallyfor women practice in physicians
(34:36):
.
And also I wanted to show youthis.
This is a proof copy, but thisis a 2024, if you can see I'm
not sure 2024 physician wellnesscalendar.
This is not a final version ofit.
The final version is in printnow.
(34:58):
So this all will be my pictures.
So this they.
You know I changed the design alittle bit, but the essence is
the same.
So I put every month will havelike a motivational, the
motivational theme and alsopersonal wellness goals for
(35:20):
physicians and professional andso what you do for yourself this
is kind of you know, monthlysmart goals, what you do for
your wellness, for yourself andat your workplace.
This are very doable doable andthey change every month.
This is my Yorkshire area.
(35:42):
I took all these pictures, soand these are doable I did this.
If I could do this, everybodycan do this.
If I'm so, I made sure that Iwant people to thrive.
I don't want people to continueburning out.
(36:03):
I really don't.
So this is my smallcontribution for this year, for
this upcoming year, and I'mgoing to bring a copy of each to
Lifestyle Medicine 2023, whenI'm meeting in Denver, to show
to you guys, to show what we,where we're going.
(36:24):
So this is my next step to justcontribute to the wellness of
physicians in real way, likethis way.
Vesime (36:34):
I love that and you mentioned that you, you know
you've done the goals, bothpersonal and professional, which
is amazing because you havefirsthand what we always love to
do here on Perfectly Pinnadish.
Ask our guests and I will askyou the same question really to
give us a day in the life, ofyour life, really, when it comes
(36:55):
to your meals, your movement,your, you know, overall health
and wellness, some of the thingsthat are non-negotiable for you
and some things that are yourfavorite things to do.
We would love to hear.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (37:09):
Oh sure, oh, like with my okay.
Vesime (37:15):
What time do you wake up ?
In the morning?
I didn't do it.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (37:21):
That's so cool, actually.
Yeah, so I am my own boss now,so no, pressure whatsoever now.
I don't get out of bed before7.30.
So 7.30 is my wake up time.
In the morning my husband andwe take three day weekend now,
so we are Saturday, sunday andMonday.
(37:43):
My husband and I are weekends,so in the morning we're always
playtime with our 14 year oldYorkie, always, and coffee,
always together about an hour.
We spend time with my husbandand your shirt Terrier plane.
We are pescatarian.
(38:04):
We eat fish three times a week.
The rest we eat whole food,plant-based diet.
We cook at home about 9.95% ofmeals and he takes leftovers for
lunch.
He works as a full-timecardiologist I mean four days a
week, cardiologist at the largehospital here about six minutes
(38:27):
away.
Movement I work from home.
I do all the stretches that Ido what I preach essentially I
swim for one hour every day.
We walk the dog together for 30minutes every week every night
(38:48):
and on weekends we walk for oneand a half hours every day.
Saturday, sunday and Monday.
Social connection we have ouradult daughters.
We have group chat with themand we chat every day at least
once a day, send in pictures.
We have grandchildren with themin pictures, recipes, jokes,
(39:10):
etc.
At least once a day, sometimesfour, five, ten times a day.
It depends and it's beenconsistent for the past 15 years
.
I actually believe that.
And meeting up lunch dinnerevery month, sleep stress.
So my bedroom, our bedroom, isfree from cable TV, phones,
lights or clocks.
(39:31):
That's it, completely Weekends,no social media, complete
social media and digital detox.
I do daily breathing andmeditation and for hobbies I do
jewelry making, crafts andgardening for my husband, and
(39:51):
those activities are completelyfor the sake of joy.
That's all and that's all.
Vesime (39:59):
That's all Two books and photography.
You must be a fantasticphotographer if you took those
beautiful pictures on yourupcoming calendar.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (40:08):
No, just no, just, that's all.
Oh, and that's, and that's mygrandchildren.
Oh cute, speaking of exchangingpictures all the time, I wonder
if they just send it to me.
Oh great.
Daphne (40:23):
Dr Shimon, I just want to follow up on your first, the
first book you shared, because Ido think I was talking to a
medical student that I've beenmentoring for years and I do
think we need to move theseconversations upstream Because
the it's easy to cultivateattitudes and behaviors, as
(40:49):
you're going through training,that result in Not the most
empathetic caring providers thatwe need, one not caring for
themselves and two not knowinghow to care for the people that
we serve.
So I mean, I don't know how tostart to introduce that, even
(41:11):
from a medical educationperspective, but I applaud the
fact that you wrote such a bookbecause I know in training, even
when we would go to our Academymeetings, there was usually a
women's group that would gettogether and talk about how we
need to show up differently andwhat we need to do differently
as women in this profession.
(41:32):
Women of color is a wholenother layer of stress.
Yeah, but my point is that ifyou can start to even have
conversations with ACGME or withmedical schools, that would be
wonderful.
Dr. Svetlana Chamoun (41:51):
Yeah, that would be.
That would be most importantand definitely I would be happy
to do.
You know, to talk to anybodyand everybody, because you know
I am.
I experienced so many things inmy life that you know, short of
(42:14):
being a woman of color, butethnocentric things that I went
through or I'm just a heart todescribe that they experienced,
and so I know so well thingsthat are related to diversity
(42:36):
and minorities and I can relateto them so well.
Yeah, and empathy that we needto express to one another is
very important and women women,mentorship and sponsorship and
support is a paramount priorityin this profession.
Daphne (42:56):
Agreed, agreed, which is why we are so thankful that you
are able to join us today,because you're I mean when I
first heard you at the HeelGroup you're just such an
example for so many of us, andthis is a very important message
.
So, thank you, we appreciateyou, thank you so much for
(43:16):
having me and, to those of youwho are listening and watching,
we hope that you have gained newseeds of knowledge and ideas.
Again, we're here to plantseeds of positivity.
If you have a healthcareprofessional in your life who
would benefit from hearing this,please share.
(43:37):
Please share with them.
We'll provide you links to DrShumman's website, her social
media links, but we need toremove the stigma of having
these conversations, and this iswhy it's important to have all
of you share the message, bothas your own personal and
professional journey, but toshare this with others.
(43:59):
So, thank you.
If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe.
We welcome your feedback andcomments on other amazing
speakers like Dr Shumman that wecan have, so that we can
continue to plant those seeds ofpositivity and empowerment that
make this such an importantopportunity for all of us to
(44:21):
achieve our best life possible.
We appreciate you, dr Shumman,we appreciate you and until next
time be well.
Thank you, be well.
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