Beyond Child Support: Navigating Fatherhood in Today's Society

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So, man, tell me this especially, man, you came
through, we, you know Father'sDay coming up.
We already, we already been inthis father, fatherhood shit for
years.
Bro, for sure, stepdaddy, realdaddy, you know what I'm saying.
But just so, just tell me now,man, how old is your oldest?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Now I'm 17.
Getting ready to be 18 October,so in four months he'd be grown
.
So I've been dealing with thisfatherhood stuff for 18 years.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Do you think 18 grown though?
No, no man.
Hey, we was just talking aboutthat.
Going depth, though, bro.
How was 18 not grown?
So when?

Speaker 2 (00:45):
we was just talking about that.
Go in depth though, bro.
How was 18 not grown so when wewas here?
Kj, or whatever?
About just the demographic ofhow they even entrap people to
think that way At 18, you reallycan't do much of anything.
You can sign up to fight forthe country, Mm-hmm, Go to jail,
yeah, yeah.
You damn sure go to jail.

(01:05):
You go to jail country.
Go to jail, yeah, yeah, youdamn sure go to jail.
You go to jail and pretty muchyou know open up a bank account
on your own, but you can't walkinto a store and buy you know a
bottle or you know shoot yourshells miles without being
carded.
It's, it's something that theythe stigma that the country puts

(01:27):
on us, but it's easy to get indebt at 18.
If you don't have the rightpeople to teach you how to
manage yourself.
You know what I'm saying, infact, yeah, so, um, no, I do not
think 18 has grown, but hey andI.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
But hey and I like how you brought up almost like
the pleasure side of being 18 ofyou get to probably go to
certain nightclubs.
You get to kind of, like yousaid, go maybe get some drink or
some smoke or just you know,kind of be out in the world.
You don't got a curfew.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Quote-unquote exactly , you're a little bit more
independent yeah, yeah, yeah,man.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
So the angle we was talking to him about was
graduating from school.
One of my nephews is at the agewhere he getting ready to
graduate from school, he gettingready to go out into the world,
and I actually believe he's ayear ahead in school, so he
actually is 17 getting ready tograduate, compared to 18.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Right, so he not going to be able to do.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
He going to be able to take off into the world like
he like.
At the same time, the way Ilooked at it was um, like most
of us, we was living on our ownin our generation.
Most of us jumped out there 18,19, 20, got our own place car,
stuff, like that.
I don't think a lot of thesechildren, these this generation,
got that same grit Like we didwe.

(02:45):
We, we wanted to drive and getour license at 15, 16 years old.
We wanted to be responsible,like that.
But getting to see the childrennow trying to go out there and
do it Like we did it, I don'tthink they, I don't think most
of them, got it, nor are theyready.
Getting to see, like how theygot to be 38 this year and I'm
just catching on to likeresponsibility.

(03:07):
You know what I'm saying.
So 18, 20, 20 years ago, bro,no.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
And I think it's kind of so.
I talk to Dom about thisregularly.
This generation is a gift and acurse for when it comes to like
technology and stuff.
Curse, uh, for when it comes tolike technology and stuff,
because they have things thatare more accessible to them at
their fingertips, which helpsthem learn faster, but it also

(03:34):
has made them stagnant andextremely lazy because, I agree,
able to get it at theirfingertips so quickly.
Like you know, I just wastrying to put him in a driver's
ed or whatever, and he was kindof like eh, it's cool if I get
my license and it's cool if Idon't, and I'm like man what.
Like how you going to get around?

(03:54):
And he just was like well, youknow, I got you, I got mom, I
can Uber, I'm like I would never.
I need you to have the sameambition and drive because at 18
you are able to you said tastethose freedoms, but you still

(04:15):
have to have the desire ofwanting to chase it yeah, you
gotta be responsible enough toto handle what you ask for.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
You wanna drive?
Great man, you can come and goas you please.
A little bit you can get towhere you need to go faster.
But if you texting and driving,if you don't got the the small
necessities of like how tomaintain your vehicle insurance,
insurance you know what I'msaying.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Gas, gas, money, you gotta you gotta have the, the,
the means to it.
People, even of our age, thinkit could be just as simple as
just getting in the car.
But it ain't just that.
People think, oh okay, I put 20, 30 dollars in the tank, yeah,
but what about that oil change?
What about the brakes?
What about the, the maintenanceof the, the tire rotation

(05:01):
everything, yeah like a $50 aweek.
Experience can go to thousandsof dollars real quick, real
quick.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
So that understanding the financials that you have to
have really to be inside of theworld to conduct yourself as
smooth as you would want toinside of the world, it doesn't
come with, nobody just hands youmoney.
Nah, so kj is 13, just turned13.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
He at this funky teenage boy age where I think I
know it all yeah, yeah yeah, youknow, feeling himself, as we
call it in our generation andolder generations, the nuts is
dropping.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Nuts is dropping.
Yeah, so to a level I respectit, because he want to find his
own and I'm okay with that.
But what I don't like and I tryto express to him is man, don't
kick your guy.
Don't kick your guy, bro, I'myour guy.
As I tell him, I've been a13-year boy named ken one before
.
Nobody know it.
Hey, this is this is our firsttime here together all right,

(06:11):
are you learning and I'mlearning yeah.
So I'm like hey, bro, likeforgive me, because we learning
together, we learning at thesame time.
It's my first time here withyou.
I've been here before though.
Yeah, so he he catching it.
But it's like a fart in thewind is.
When I'm talking to him he'slike yeah, dad, sure great.
Then afterwards he embarrassedhis mama show up to an event.

(06:33):
That he wanted, is that?
But now he like oh, my god, myparents are around though his
friends like man, your mama lit,your daddy lit but for sure,
but that you know, like youdon't really appreciate it until
it's gone.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
You know what I'm saying and then when it is you
as the beneficiary, you don'tnecessarily see it because
you're used to it.
So when you got somebody whodoesn't have having that
conversation, you're like whatdo you know?
You know, I'm saying right, andyeah, I done been in them shoes
, but I yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, man.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
So I.
So I say that to say, um, hedoesn't know what it's like not
to have a father at any point.
Okay, I ain't missed no daysand I put in that overtime.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
So it's a, it's a like you said it's.
It's so ready, accessible, isto him.
It's just like I get to itUnappreciated.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, whenever no-transcript, and that's kind
of like what I mean about a goodsegue in terms of you know,

(07:58):
this is not something that Ijust do in my free time.
Just do in my free time, like Istudy being a better man, which
alludes to being a betterfather, you know, because you
can never just take one side ofit.
So I'll speak to women aboutwhat they ask of us, what they

(08:19):
require of us to be betterfathers.
I'll speak to men and say, well, what do you need for that to
happen?
And like, I think thedisconnect is honestly just, uh,
perspective and understanding.
You know I'm saying, but withdominant growing up, I feel like

(08:44):
you, I won't get in trouble forsaying it.
I think that if I was in thehome, I know he would be a lot
further on in life.
So when I look online and I seewomen, dare I say, shaming men,
I don't think that theyunderstand that it comes with

(09:04):
emotional baggage for us as well, because I want to be with my
kid every day but I shouldn'thave to necessarily deal and I'm
not saying all women or men's,you know, circumstances are the
same but the majority of thetime when it becomes toxic.
Women just think that it'stoxic for them.

(09:25):
Like no, like I'm missing mybaby, like I gotta miss events.
You know I'm saying that couldbe something as simple as the
first step.
Or you know after schoolactivity.
Or you know his firstgirlfriend?
It could be the birds and thebees.
Talk, yeah, and a lot of peoplesay, well, it doesn't have to

(09:45):
be that way.
But when you got conflict inbetween nine times out of ten,
that's how it ends up.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Like and I think, um, women don't believe that men
feel what they feel, grieve,yeah, like they, and think and I
say it respectfully, even beingmarried, you know what I'm
saying that I tell Vanessa, likeman don't ever feel like I'm
okay.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Or don't ever feel like that.
What happened to our childrenand birth and things like that?
Like I didn't feel it, you knowwhat I'm saying, that just
means I react the way.
And it's expressing to her thepostpartum that men go through,
like the emotional of, hey, Ican't see my baby either.
That bothers me, that I don'tlike it, man, and it's for real,

(10:33):
it's serious.
So, being able to express thatand be like, hey, man, I don't
want to have to act a fool toshow that I care, right, you
know, that's just not, that'sbeneath me as a gentleman of who
I've grown to be.
But I am very emotional, I'mvery rigid on not seeing my keys
because that's that's aday-to-day for me.

(10:55):
That's a day-to-day for me.
So not being able to see him ortouch him, I can only imagine
the men that I and can onlyimagine the men that I and that
and there's great men like you,like levon, like bud, that are
around me that sometimes theydon't get that privilege to see
their children, becausesometimes people mad, right,
sometimes people it's a benefitto keep you away more than a

(11:17):
privilege of like you can haveall of me and everything of me
if I was, if I could be here.
But because in a lot of casesthe government get to step in
and be the father, thegovernment get to tell you where
you live, how much money youget to make.
Give you X, y and Z section Afood stamps.
Medical it's a replacement, it'sa replacement, yeah so.
And it's not a healthy one?

(11:39):
No, not at all Not a healthyone, and that alienates the dad.
So where do we go to get thelove, right, yeah?

Speaker 2 (11:45):
You know, and it's just systematic programming,
because I say, maybe about six,seven years ago it was before
the twins were born kind of hadthat uh exact discussion on, uh,
my facebook page on the post,where it just asked women a very

(12:08):
direct question would yourather have the support of a
father trying or the governmentthat can do?
You know, like him being out ofthe home, don't stop your show
if they telling you, well, aslong as he's gone, we'll give
you this, we'll give you this,we'll give you this.
Sometimes a man just can'tcompete with what's guaranteed.

(12:32):
You know, I'm saying like whenyou give in the insurance, when
you give in a place to lay yourhead, when you give in, whatever
the monetary amount may be,it's money that is coming in
your pocket one way or another.
You know people might say, oh,he isn't consistently paying
child support for somecircumstances.

(12:55):
But we know that's not how itworks.
They're going to catch your assat some point.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
At some point.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, you know, know I'm saying so.
Um, a lot of the women whoanswered on that specific post
answered honestly and said thatthey'd rather take the
government assistance.
You know I'm saying because youhave a man in the home that's
trying which the focus should beon the child.

(13:21):
It doesn't benefit her.
You know, I'm saying and like,I just think that the system
needs to be revamped, instead ofit being, like you said, a
replacement, but something thatcan be there to assist.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know so yeah, hey , and I think that is it's sad.
You know some women will preferthat, that government
assistance over maybe even a jobthemselves or a man that's
actually working trying,compared to the consistency that

(13:57):
they can receive for thegovernment.
But it's, it's always capped.
It's always capped only so muchevery month Only.
So it is so that you know soit's never.
It's never you really get ahead.
It's really like, hey, keepingyou there, keeping you there, is
one step from you being on thestreet.
So a six hundred dollars, eighthundred dollars, two hundred
dollars, whatever you get in permonth to be able to just kind

(14:20):
of get you by.
It shouldn't be, and I guess,like you you said it's a
systematic thing.
You getting paid x amount ofdollars to almost do nothing
should not replace a man whocomes in with with everything
that can help you reach theceilings that y'all can work
together.
But then you upset.
When we get upset as men, I'llsay is don't look at me for

(14:41):
money, don't look at me likethis, but is we actually are
being replaced by it?
On this fact of the government,right, can you come in and pay
my bills?
Can you come in and pay my rent?
It's like you not even doingthat lady like, let's like,
let's not do that.
And I'm an advocate forgovernment assistance man I'm an
advocate for because I knowsome people need it, but it

(15:02):
shouldn't be.
Your grandmama got it, yourmama got it, your sister got it
and your baby got it, teachingyour baby to be dependent on it
instead of getting out here.
Yeah, yeah and it's everybodyloses, everybody loses.
The baby doesn't get furtheralong.
Some of the things I'll say isthe baby is taken care of in the

(15:23):
most simplistic way, where itdoesn't die.
It got some health insurance,it got some, yeah, it got it got
just enough to get by.
But the government still looklike it has to recoup itself and
it's going to find the father.
It's going to find it some way.
You're going that letter, goingto show up to a job, you're
going to get one in the mail too, and it's going to be like some

(15:45):
garnishments coming outeffective.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
X, y, z yeah, and you know, when I say grade d is not
to diminish the help, you knowI'm not saying that.
But when you peel the layer ofthat onion back and you look at
what it is that they areproviding, it really is because

(16:07):
we saw it firsthand.
You know, my favorite subjectis history, you know.
So I remember paying attentionto uh, before I lived in the
suburbs was called the GreatWhite Flight, which in other
generations would be calledgentrification.

(16:28):
So we saw firsthand, growing up, where we grew up, section
eight coming in, you know, andthey associated in that
community.
Oh well, that means, you know,more trouble.

(16:51):
You know they associated itwith the school district, I
guess you could say falling off.
You could see the fundsdrastically changing, you know,
and I'll say that in thatsuburban community it also meant
we would see less whites orasians or indians and you would
see more brown colored people.

(17:12):
You know I'm saying but when youlook out of kaha county you see
other larger systems, you know,like out in the sticks they
getting the same benefit.
It just ain't us out there.
Yeah, you know I'm saying so,um, tying that into fatherhood.
It can be associated with thecome up, but they're not

(17:36):
realizing what comes with the,like you said, the cap.
You know I'm saying they'regiving you just enough to
survive.
When, if we're working together, or for those that do got to do
it on their own, are you takingfull advantage of your support
system to get it out the mud?
Or are you just saying, hey,I'm just dependent on this

(17:56):
system.
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
And I think, I think it's the easy way.
Ok, as a man who grew up on it,man, and we had it for a little
bit too I love food stamps.
Okay, government, if you hearme, I love stamps.
I love food stamps.
Okay, two for the dollar.
Two for the dollar, I love foodstamps.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
It fed us well.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
If you can't get free medical, you should get free
food.
Man, so much food go to wasteand shit.
If you can't get free medical,you should be able to get free
food.
Yeah, we all need help everynow and then, for sure.
So I don't know, we're nearknock help, especially as an
entrepreneur man.
We need all of it.
Everybody need the help.
Everybody need, need somebodyput it like that man.

(18:45):
So welcome to a beautifulepisode of permission to speak
freely podcast.
I got my mans, I got my brother, terry allen nichols, and if
you, really know him.
You know him as tan man.
Okay, man, we here today justtalking, like we usually talk,

(19:06):
unedited, unscripted, butbringing y'all fully into our
conversations that we have onthe daily of just what it is to
be a man, what it is to be afather, especially during the
month of men's mental healthmonth, men's mental health
awareness month.
We we here to bring y'all thatman.
So Tam man, tell the peopleabout you.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Alright.
Well, first off, happy Father'sDay to you and everybody out
there All the fathers out thereA little bit about myself
Getting ready to be 39 years oldIn October, father of three
Beautiful, beautiful childrenGot Dom, dion and Drew and you

(19:52):
know pretty much.
What I wanted to come on thepodcast today and talk about is,
like Ken Y said, just give alittle history about myself,
just the struggles of dealingwith wanting to be the best
father you could be in today'ssociety.
You know it's a lot of stigmathat comes with it, a lot of

(20:15):
finger pointing, a lot of lackof understanding.
And you know I hear all thetime and you know I hear all the
time Well, a lot years ago thatthere's always a way to do more
.
But when you are in that box,sometimes, like you said, tying
it into mental health, you getbeat up.

(20:37):
You know sometimes, you knowwhen you think you're doing
enough and it isn't enough, itcan become frustrating, you know
.
So I just wanted to come ontoday and, uh, give some fathers
and men that are trying to bebetter some encouraging words,
uh, some hindsight of somethings that I've been dealing

(20:57):
with for the past 17 years.
Um, this is not something newto me, because I know what I
signed up for to be a father, um, you know.
So, yeah, uh, just to shoutsome people out and show love to
those who deserve it.
You know, because don't get mewrong there are some moms who go

(21:20):
beyond the call of duty to begreat co-parents, you know, and
there are some programs that arein place to help fathers be
great fathers, and if you don'tknow about them, you won't know
about them.
So, yeah, that's just prettymuch what I wanted to do today,
man, and yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
That's that's where we at with things hey, man,
freedom speakers especially I'mtalking to the men have you ever
found yourself in thatsituation where you trying to
hit the mark and keep missingthe person, keep moving the
target on you, the boundary,yeah, and you, like you said,
you find yourself just almostdefeated man, you find yourself

(22:02):
exhausted.
You find yourself what I liketo say, and I break it down in
the most elementary way I'm sad,bitch, I'm sad, I'm fucking sad
.
You're hurting my feelings.
My feelings are hurt, you knowand I don't want to lash out
because most men that's kind ofhow we handle things is through

(22:25):
anger at times, just, and I feellike it's learning myself.
Man, my anger was very muchconfusion.
My anger was confusion of Ithought I was going the right
direction, but I was going thewrong way.
And I was led the wrong waybecause it's beneficial for me
to be lost to this person thatI'm trying to help, compared to

(22:46):
we actually working togetherright.
So once I, once I catch on,it's scary, it's dangerous,
because it's like all of thiswas just a facade, all of this
was fake, all of it wasn't real,and I'm supposed to accept an
apology or I'm supposed to justbear.
No man, I'm mentally frazzled.

(23:07):
I'm emotionally hurt and it'sjust not a healthy place.
So I've been there and knowing,when I was a young, immature,
as young man at the time,knowing I didn't know how to
handle my emotions like I do asa, as a 38 year old, mature
adult who loves himself now,right, gotta be more.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I just told, I just told a kid well, a young man
yesterday at work that I wastraining.
You know that sometimeslearning and bettering yourself
can affect everything else,instead of you focusing on
trying to do it, just doing it.
So, yeah, I agree with thatcompletely.

(23:53):
Like it's made me a betterfather, a better friend.
You know, single or not, I knowthat I'm in a position to be a
better partner.
I did a lot of good to themother of my children, but I
also know that I did a lot ofwrong and, like you said, it

(24:13):
wasn't because I was a bad dad,it was because I just didn't
know any better.
You know that's something thatthey shouldn't be associated.
Like a person can be a goodfather or great one more time
man, like repeat that.
So basically, like you know,the connection is that let's
just say, like you know, in mypast you know dom's mom and I we

(24:38):
oil and water.
You know I'm saying I don'tfault her for that, because it's
the truth oil and water.
But one thing that I know sheknows is that I'm a great dad,
but in our younger years theonly thing that she could do to
get to me would be use my son.
You know, I'm saying and I usedto have to tell her, like, as

(25:03):
triggering as it was, that wouldget me closer to spazzing out
than us not necessarily working.
I ain't give a fuck about thatlike I'm just being honest.
It was I care about my son, youknow what I'm saying.
So even though we were notcompatible, she had my word to
be the best dad that I could be.

(25:25):
And I don't think that theyshould be associated that just
because you and this woman, orvice versa, didn't work out that
it means that you know who theyare.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
You got to give them a chance, you know so do you
feel like that as being a dadnow, in the work that you are
doing to better yourself, tobetter your situation and to
better your children?
Do you think it's beingrecognized like by the mother of
your children?
Do you think like it's beingrecognized and?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
seen, nah, and that's what's wrong with it.
You know I'm saying like Idon't feel like it's appreciated
until you have to.
So something else that I wantedto talk about is, like I just
said, you know, I've been in thejuvenile court battle for 17
years and so, with Dom gettingready to be 18, I got tired.

(26:23):
The system did what it wassupposed to do.
It defeated me.
I fought, fought, fought,fought, fought.
I worked, worked, worked,worked, worked.
I adjusted the schedule.
You know I did everything thatI was supposed to do to make
sure that I was present, goingto his mom and saying, saying

(26:44):
man, just let me be your dad, Iwant him, I want him, I want him
, I want him.
She didn't care anything aboutthat because she had all the
benefits that came with it.
So who lost out on a lot ofopportunities was me in the long
run, because it stunted myadvancement.
Uh, it affected my friendships,because I felt like at 21, 22,

(27:08):
23, 24, I was one of our firstfriends to have kids.
You know I'm saying I felt likeman, you niggas don't
understand me and what I'm goingthrough.
You know I'm saying like y'allsee me going up to work every
day, but look at this check.
You know I'm saying like itdon't align.
You know I'm saying or notbeing able to hang out with them

(27:29):
like I used to, or feeling likewhen I did have dom, um, not
being able to do the normalhangout, whether it be going to
bars or clubs.
I was more centered on familyevents, so I missed out on a lot
, even in my early 20s.
You know um, it affected myrelationships.

(27:51):
I'm sure she will never, ever,ever expect this.
But you know, the woman that Iwas with, she was a great woman.
You know I'm gonna shout herout nicole rivera.
Shout out nicole.
Great woman.
I feel like because I wasbroken, I wasn't who I should

(28:11):
have been to her and it wasn'talways her fault.
You know I'm saying it was thesystem doing it.
You know I'm saying and peoplewas gonna say, oh, you making
excuses, you saying that untilyou in that courtroom and they
telling you they don't care.
Yeah, yeah, they taking yourmoney just to be like ah well,
kids will be kids.
He needs to be with his mom.

(28:32):
Why isn't it that same kidneeds to be with his dad?
yeah, it should be the sameurgency you know I'm saying,
especially when we talking aboutour juvenile system being
flooded with young black boys.
Yeah, why, why wouldn't youwant them to be with their
fathers to learn?

Speaker 1 (28:52):
you know I'm saying how to you know, I said this to
kj recently, just getting on himabout certain things and making
sure I'm protecting him, givinghim information.
I had told him, like, man, youknow, when they see you
sometimes as a young black boy,or when they see black men, two
things normally pop intopeople's mind.
I mean, either whatever youwere doing is looked at as cool

(29:12):
or whatever you're doing islooked at as dangerous because
you're black, right, all right,and I'm like, and if you get
yourself into some shenanigans,the first thing they gonna ask
is where your daddy at, for sure, where your daddy.
You got a daddy and you actinglike this.
It's our fault when we in thehome and when we not in the home
, not in the home, you can't win.
And you wonder why some, somepeople do what it is they want

(29:35):
to do.
Man, I choose, like as a fatherman, I choose to show up every
day.
I choose the clock in for everyday.
I'm thankful that I was able to,vanessa and I were able to get
to a place where we, we, we,we're, we're, we're good and
progressing outside, because itwent.

(29:55):
It ain't always been peachesand cream, especially when it
comes to those children.
When I got a chance topermission to speak freely when
we got together young and hitthe ground running on a lot of
things early.
So when we had a child, wereally, we really didn't.

(30:15):
I didn't feel like we reallygave him some of the attention
that he should have really had,because we were focusing on the
growth, like we were focusing onthe responsibilities, the
growth, like we were focusing onthe responsibilities that we
took on we started a businessright we trying to be in a
relationship with each other.
We do got him, but he, you know,an infant but we still not
doing all the things that weshould have been doing for him.

(30:36):
As we've grown and we had achance to kind of get a comfort
in life, it made us have to slowdown just a little bit right.
So now it made us have to seewe weren't really, we didn't
really know each other like aswell as we should have known
each other, which means you andme and nessa okay, we didn't
know each other as well as weshould have known each other.
And it started to affect the kj, and not in the negative of

(31:01):
like oh, oh, he spazzing out,but when mommy and I can't
really have a conversationwithout some argument, or I'm a
deep intellectual brother who awizard with words, man, I need
to know who I'm dealing with.
I don't want to just surface it, I need to.
I want to know as much aboutyou as I can, because it helps

(31:21):
me be the best I can be to youcan, because it helps me be the
best I can be to you, but if youtaking me off into the deep end
somewhere else that I'msupposed to be.
Well, you, you taking mesomewhere.
That is delusion, is not evenreal.
I'm fighting false battles orgetting it is.
That's kind of where we workjust on some immature childish
things.
Man, I wasn't always the bestboyfriend, fiance or husband

(31:44):
Right, you know what I'm saying.
But I gave that effort to showup for my child, even if I
wasn't being the best to her,which had to change the home.

(32:05):
And me working as much as I wasworking, me trying to connect
with my woman, me trying toconnect with my child, but still
having negative people aroundto deter, like I as a man I'm
out number okay.
So kj got his mama, his aunties, grandmamas, all like me and
ain't shit.
And then, but but, and yousaying that to him or around him
, where you?
You got me looking as like I'mthe one who's on the leash, I'm

(32:29):
being pulled around when it'slike, hey, I'm, I think I'm
manning up and handling shit,but I'm really a sucker to you
right, it's a comedian.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Right now I can't think of his name, but and I'm
just gonna steal his line quickthis is no shade to the letter,
people, but we also see thatthere is a spike in
homosexuality, and a lot of thetimes that that is the case is
because you have little boys andlittle girls with no dads in

(32:59):
the home, so they are mimickingwhat they see.
Again, like, like I said, Iain't homophobic.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
That is just a given fact.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
We like girls, that like girls like and if you can't
associate the two, you just notbeing honest with yourself.
Oh yeah, I'm saying, like youknow, when there is no father in
the home and the woman may feellike she's not being heard, one
of two things is gonna happenshe gonna keep running to other
men, which is not good for herchild, or she gonna switch up.

(33:34):
And you can take that how youwant it.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
I'm saying so, yeah, yeah, it happens, man.
So, with me being in the homeand nessa not I having, like you
know our things, it was one ofthem like what are we doing?
Right, okay, what are we doing?
What are we doing, what do wewant to do and where are we
going?

(33:57):
Because it's not just us.
We got these children and I wasjust how can I put it?
I want to make sure I say thiscorrectly, not just from my,
from my wife, but from womenthat were around me.
I got a chance, especially likein our age now, man, we late 30s
you seeing the spike in peoplerushing relationships, people

(34:20):
rushing to get married, peoplerushing and I think that's one
of them, almost the most as amarried person but I've been
married nine years to rush toget married and no one is
normally women who push to getmarried, to rush it.
That's almost one of the mostdisgusting things that a woman
can do is rush to give up theresponsibility of herself for
that man to take care of her.

(34:40):
Knowing most women push thatthey're not looking to, they're
not looking to be faithful tothis one man per se, they're
looking for status, because mostwomen don't feel like a woman
if they don't got a man.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying,especially later on in your
life.
You, you ain't got nobodyknowing you.
You got to choose.
You to choose the one for real,the look of it, you, you, you

(35:03):
got it.
So I find that as disgusting.
As a man, knowing that I'mmarried, knowing what all that
comes with that commitment ofhey, I'm, I'm rocking with you
and this is we gonna do, youjust willing to most of them at
this age, they willing to justjump on with anybody, which is
dangerous.
Anybody is willing to say theycan foot the bill of being a
husband, being a man, being afather, knowing, if you got

(35:25):
children and you just got somerandos around your kids, the
impact of it like no, no, no, no, no.
Or as, being a young man at thetime, getting to see, hey, man,
this woman loves other men morethan the man who she birthed,
that loves her unconditionally,that, hey, your mother can love

(35:46):
the attention of men andneglecting the unconditional
love that her children give her,her son gives her, who is a man
as well, who, who can't help,but how he feel about loving her
until he catch on, okay, andmost of the time when that man
catch on.
He he ain't got to act a fool,he ain't got to blow the spot up

(36:07):
.
It's going to come a day.
He's going to come a day.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Like well, you, you've been saying this and
you've been saying that.
You know, like I said, Istudied being a father and I saw
recently, again on Facebook itwas something that went viral
and the post said said, beforeyou pass judgment, get your
father's side of things.
Yeah, for sure, because a lotof people who have been

(36:31):
programmed based off of one sideof the story and that's all
they heard yeah, you know whatI'm saying that ain't realistic.
You see that more common.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
You see that more common than what, that more
common than than what you think,man, that mama be lying on
daddy because she hurt, or mamabe lying on daddy because she
got caught up, or because itmake her look, it make her look
good, and I feel like just uh,and I love women.
I want to make sure I put thatout there, man so sure, yeah,
this is not a we're not bashing.
Today is about this is educationfor real as I said to my

(37:09):
siblings the other day my twosisters, crystal and kiera,
shout out to both for them.
I said it to them like Iapologize to you if I hurt your
feelings when I say certainthings, but I'm like I gotta say
certain things because I'm aman and I only can see things a
way of a man.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
That you need to know because you're from a man,
because you're not a man and youain't getting it.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
You're not getting it , just like you.
As a woman, I have to hear whatyou say, because it's things
that you can see and know.
That I don't know as a as a man.
That you see as a woman, is whywe need each other nigga.
Don't, don't bash me, don't,don't, don't.
It's like because I know how toleave you cold, right but they
didn't even what I wanted to do,but it's like I know that ain't
built for you.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
It's uh, you know, I'm just throwing the history
out there.
So kind of what you just saidis when we was growing up.
Have you ever heard of the bookmen are from mars, women is
from venus?
Yeah, that's basically kind ofwhat it is like.
We are meant to balance eachother out, even though we don't
understand the importance allthe time of one another.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
And I'm saying so that's a good way to say it,
Good way to look at it, Like wewe're supposed to.
We ain't supposed to be thesame.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, we ain't supposed to be the same Like you
going to look at it this waybecause of your experiences,
your touch.
You're going to look at it thisway because of your experiences
, your touch, your viewpoint,however you want to say it.
But as a man, I can guaranteeyou that I am not going to see
it the same, like when Duda falland bust his knee.

(38:38):
I don't be like, oh my God, oh,get your ass up.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Get your ass up, you know what I'm saying like we,
not fathers are, fathers aremore reluctant to let the
children get close to dangerthan mothers did you feel the
fire?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
you touched that, you burned your ass, didn't you bet
you won't do it again?

Speaker 1 (39:00):
tough lesson tough lesson, but I understand, like
having two boys man, Iunderstand how Nessa comes to
the aid of KJ and Kyro.
I want to get him this or dothat, or oh, kj playing baseball
, I'm going to get him someshoulder pad.
I'm going to get him some elbowpad.
I'm like, no, you need to learnhow to hit.
You need to learn how to move,get out of the way.

(39:21):
You need to do that.
It ain't fashion, babe, itain't I'm gonna give him some
matching cleats and socks.
I'm like he can be the flyestbum on the team okay, he gotta
play, don't mean nothing,nothing.
So it's two different views butfor the benefit of the child,
they're getting a scope, they'regetting a huge scope of this is
how daddy looks at it, this ishow mommy looks at, it's how

(39:42):
grandma looks at it, granddadlooks at it, uncle tay, uncle
wood, right tan man.
But it's like, hey, what theysay, take a village right.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
So when you removing the fathers, you get a again.
The proof is in the pudding.
You end up with a lot ofsuckers.
And we, cleveland, ohio, youknow I'm saying for people who
watching online what they callthem the kid boys.
They on the rampage in thejuvie system.

(40:11):
We got the heartless fell, wegot all of that.
And again I say that to saythis a lot of them, boys and
young men, probably never haddaddies in the home.
So if the blame is on the men,how you end up with that if the
men not there.
So I say that to say why y'alldon't want us to be more

(40:33):
involved, more hands-on, and theexcuses and the comments are
going to say nobody's stoppingyou from it, really not all of
you, not a person may not be aperson.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
The majority of you are though, yeah, it may not be
a person that's stopping you,but as you go through certain
litigations, there is a system.
Yeah, there is a system.
So, as I tell vanessa and we,like I said, I love my wife, man
we.
I love how we've grown togetherand we've been able to
understand each other.

(41:05):
We didn't broke each other, wedidn't built each other up back
and forth to get us to where weare now, but I feel like that's
that's how you get to know theperson, not by breaking them I
don't want to say that but beingthere for that person when life
hits them Right.
Ok, when such situations happen.

(41:29):
And I remember saying this onetime to an employee, past
employee of ours, when they werethey were giving a compliment.
I guess like, hey, yes, it's,you know, both of you guys,
you're guys together.
I'm like you, right, we aretogether.
So it happened to us both, ithappened to me both.
It happened to us both.
I'm hurt too.
God damn it.
Right, you know I'm saying, butI gotta remain a certain way,
just like she may feel she gottaremain a certain way to get
things done, man.
So, that being said, we've beenthrough things and and

(41:50):
graduated through things aswhere I not just her being a
mother of my children and mywife, but I got the utmost
respect for and for people whodon't value marriage like I
value marriage, even though mywife fully know, if I could, I
had like two, three wives.
I had two, three wives, justjust three times more faithful.
You know I'm saying, but ushaving those conversations she's

(42:14):
like, man, I don't want toshare, you don't want to do none
of that stuff.
But I also know like what youwanting more from or more women
doesn't mean like a negative,but it's more like you need more
from me and her having to growto a certain level, to match me
and meet me, knowing if the manis supposed to lead or the man
is leading.

(42:35):
I mean you got to get thatrespect in them.
Flowers, dude, when you get tosee somebody who, who got some
direction, who found some, foundsome direction, and not just
entrepreneurial, but in life,like a father who has a goal
with his child, I don't want youto end up in jail, right, my
daughter.
I don't want you to end up withOnlyFans selling ass On the
pole, not, and I supportOnlyFans.

(42:58):
Okay, no comment.
And what I mean support is hey,okay, no comment.
And what I mean support is hey,everybody gotta work.
But people didn't find all kindof jobs now, so I'm not mad at
it, but meaning your horizonsare bigger than just what's easy
, right, you know I'm saying so.
Being a father, being a husband,being a man, it comes with, it

(43:20):
comes with a lot man.
It is heavy and something Itell vanessa, uh, and freedom
speakers man, if you, if you gotand I just want to speak to the
women for a second if you havea man, a boyfriend, a husband, a
father, a grandfather, a son,appreciate them.
One most definitely appreciatethem, and never and I say this

(43:41):
to van man never feel like I amokay.
I don't give a fuck, I don'tcare if I'm smiling, I'm dancing
, I'm kicking it.
Never feel like I'm okay,because you never know what's
going on with somebody.
Right?
But never feel like I'm okay.
Always check up on me, makesure I'm good, make sure you

(44:04):
make some time for me.
I don't want to have to beacting a fool to get some
attention.
I want to just pull you by yourcoattail or I want to be in the
in proximity of you and I justgive you some googly eyes or
something.
But we vibe, you, feel me theexpectation shouldn't be be.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
You know, even we learn as kids.
Uh, as you said, permission tospeak freely, uh, the value of
mother's day is unsubstantial.
You know, people go out oftheir way for their mamas, you
know, and got a little your mama, yeah, you got you got a little
your daddy mamas, you know, andgotta love your mama, yeah you

(44:45):
gotta love your daddy too.
Yeah, you know you, we getsocks and ties and father's day
three weeks later.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Three weeks later and it's father's day, which is one
day and then you got mother'sday every day, and and then you
got Mother's Day.
Every day.
You celebrate it every day, butit's one day Shark week, get a
week.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, get a week.
Not only that, but something Ihate.
Let me know in the comments.
I don't care if you like it, ifyou a woman telling another
woman happy Father's Day.
On Father's Day you corny.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Hey, that's disgusting.
Get that man his day.
Okay, let him have that day Oneday Let him.
Have them cut.
He'll be back to being,depending on how the
relationship is between you andthat man.
He back to being whatever elseyou want him to be tomorrow.
Let him get his flowers forthis day.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
And if you do feel like you do it on your own and
you got to say well, I'm themommy and the daddy.
Guess what you chose him.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Yeah, that's some heavy we're going to say it way
in there man, that's some heavyaccountability man of the woman
being able to state like, hey,this is the man that I chose,
this is the man I chose, notonly to per se, maybe remember
children, children happen, yeah,they happen?
sure didn't happen yeah, youknow I'm saying so.
Children happen, so we're notgonna blame it on that.

(46:16):
But it's like, hey, what didthis man do to qualify to be
able to clap them cheeks, right,okay?
Was his jeans talk nice?
Was it his car?
Did he have a good job?
You heard he was holding.
What was it?
It had to be something and ithad to be more.
And, knowing we were young, weyoung.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
He ain't just become bummy overnight Exactly.
He ain't just become a deadbeatovernight, especially for the
ones who have multiples.
How you got nine kids and youthink he's just being bad to
yours.
No, you didn't care, youthought you was gonna change him
.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Nah, what?
No, no, no, you, you, you.
You cannot change a person.
It's already hard enough tochange your damn self, let alone
trying to change some sayingsomeone else.
And when you get a chance tosee trends and patterns and pick
up on it, that shit is for real.
You know, I'm saying that shitis for real.
A person's trends and patterns,their habits of what they do,
what they don't do, how they,how they deal with shenanigans,

(47:16):
man, right, everybody is down tokick it and hang out.
When shit is good, right, whenshit is going well, man,
everybody's showing up, right.
But when, when?
When it's a real life problemthat everyone, or most, can at
least relate to, some peoplecan't even give you advice,
willing to give advice, andsometimes it's not even and I'll
say, at least for a man, inmost cases nigga, it ain't, I

(47:37):
don't, I don't need no materials, man, I know how to get out
here and hustle, I know how tobuild, I know how to find, I
know how to get.
But sometimes it's like, hey, Ijust need an ear, I need a, and
that's in freedom.
Speakers, people who listen,family friends if you know me
and you in my circle.
You know, I'll just hit you up.
Hey, wellness check.
Yeah, how you doing what'sgoing on?

Speaker 2 (47:57):
what's going on?

Speaker 1 (47:58):
I thought about you.
No, gay shit, man shit, eventhough it's pride month, yeah,
but it's like all in one, all inone.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
all in one once again see how they do it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
So one of my boys said he's like hey, man, I don't
got nothing against gay peopleat all.
Me either.
I like girls, that like girls,and some of my great friends who
listen to this show, who areteachers, they, they, I respect
them and all of that stuff.
However, I do know when I'mtargeted as a man For sure, or
the children are targeted.
Some of the TV shows KJ waswatching at a time on Disney had

(48:30):
a little black boy who waswearing like a girl cardigan
pearls on his neck, he had babydoll shoes and like jegging
pants.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
You will see, I'm like for a little boy.
You will see stuff on TV with.
Again, it's what they'reteaching and programming our
children to learn.
I don't want to say the name ofthe show I'm not sure if it was

(48:56):
Nickelodeon or Cartoon Networkbut you'll see.
You know a white family, youknow.
Or you might see you know awhite family, you know.
Or you might see two mamas.
But it's rare that you see awholesome black family.
And then when you do get thoseshows, they are very short lived

(49:18):
.
You know so, and I think that'sunfortunate.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
So I'll say this I'll play devil's advocate for a
second.
I understand, because it'speople who I love who are gay
yeah, openly gay.
The diversity I understand theygotta see it too.
I understand the inclusion tohow it's heavy to feel apart,
right, okay, so I don't.
I don't knock it in any kind ofway, shape or form.

(49:43):
Okay.
Like I said, I love girls wholove girls.
I just don't care.
It's any kind of way, shape orform, okay.
Like I said, I love girls wholove girls.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
I just don't care, it's not my business.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
What you do, don't make me shit.
Exactly and that's the pointthat I wanted to bring it to of
the world somehow made it okayto talk about certain things
that are usually private, right,yeah, your sexuality is usually
private and at a certain time,you would teach your child their
private is private and what youdo in private with people is

(50:11):
private.
How did all of a sudden, I getto judge you by how you like to
be pleased, right?
So I understand that of havingpeople who've come out to me,
who've respected me at the sametime, who've come out to me and
was like I like girls, I want toexperience it with you because
you never judged me like worddope, but I understand the, the

(50:33):
inclusion or this is how youfeel.
I don't want to judge you orargue with you or how you feel,
because that's your truth,because you can't tell me how I
feel, especially if you made mefeel some kind of way like no
bitch, I'm sad.
You made me sad, yeah, so I getit.
But I don't like the target ofhey, man, we, we systematically
design something to influenceyoung men to, especially on

(50:57):
sexuality, to feel like, hey,this is more easier, more
comfortable, especially whenthey're already outnumbered
because they got the feminineenergy around them, right
especially not.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
What is it nine to one nowadays, or something along
those lines.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
It's a lot, so I have to bring it full circle.
I respect people's choices andtheir lives and their livelihood
, and even the strength to shareto say, hey, this is what I am,
you got my support.
But when you take that and youuse it to manipulate my son and

(51:35):
yeah, well, it looks like me,yeah, you take it to me, like
that's warfare, like to me,that's that's warfare.
That's you're almost trying tocastrate him so he doesn't,
trying to castrate him so hedoesn't populate.
Not that you want him to findpleasure or please be pleased.
It's like no, if, if I don'tget you to have children, my, my

(51:56):
race or my culture or my groupget to multiply, and it's always
power in numbers.
So if you don't have men like me, men like you, men like von,
men like big rp, but men who?
I'll be the villain, god damnit.
I'll be the villain becausethis is the standard of what

(52:18):
needs to be, and if you don'tlike it, the world is cold.
Right, the world is cold.
Go go find your own, just likewe are.
So the world needs men like us.
The world, the children, needmen like us.
Women need men like us, eventhough it's it's it's fun to say

(52:41):
fuck us, but you still befucking us and you still need to
fuck because, remember, yourmama needed to fuck a man too
for your raggedy ass to be here.
So, as much as you want to pushmen to the side and use us like
tools and take us off the shelfwhen you can, you get upset when
other groups form, such as thepassport bros if I wasn't

(53:05):
married, I'd have been apassport bro no, but meaning
like hey, you can't, don't push,don't be mad at that man being
a hetero man, right that youdon't want to deal with him or
he.
And then I'll say that intothis you don't want to deal with
him, you don't want to fuckwith him.
You because of, because he's ablack man, but you'll go deal

(53:25):
with other denominations ofblack.
Oh, I got this haitian, I gotthis jamaican, I got this, I got
that, but it's like you gotyour own man, like american,
whatever the label you want toput them, but you don't want him
, you don't want no nine to fiveman and that's probably one of
the most disgusting things to meright now was like hold on, you
don't want.
No, yeah, a provider is aprovider, yeah, and I and I and

(53:48):
remember, play devil's advocateto kevin samuels for a second.
Kevin samuels did a great thingby giving men a voice, but I
also feel like he becametargeted when he was able to
give empower people.
Okay, he empowered men, mostdefinitely black men, to be able
to speak up and have a standardand not just cry in the dark,

(54:08):
right, or not know like men.
Stay for the children too, man,okay, so it's men, stay for the
children too.
You feel like I'm just herebecause it's like no, niggas, be
like I don't want to.
I want my kids being a brokenhome.
So remember he.
But he gave men a voice to beable to speak and be able to be

(54:28):
like hey, I'm saying what mostof them not strong enough to say
, yeah, everybody not going togo get milk.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
I've been put into a lot oftumultuous situations because I
chose my children.
You know what I'm saying, and Ithink they would even agree

(54:55):
that both of the mothers of mychildren would say that they
knew that was the only real wayto get to me.
So, as I'm doing my best to bethat father, they would do
things triggering things.
So, as I'm doing my best to bethat father, they would do
things triggering things.
You know what I'm saying andI'm no way, shape or form
innocent, but I do know thatwhen it came to my kids, it

(55:19):
wouldn't be something that Iwould do to their mothers,
because that's their moms Right,right, right, you know what I'm
saying I done.
had the police called on me, Idone had I done got jumped.
I done been physicallyassaulted.
You know what?
I'm saying Before, and you knowI done had to hold my own.

(55:41):
All that.
You know what I'm saying and Idone had the stigma of oh they
afraid.
What you afraid of, if I ain'tnever put my hands on you before
, then putting it into the airof the atmosphere, is because
you know, you knew that thatwould probably hold some weight.
Yes, we see we see that on tvevery day.
You know I'm saying like againI don't have a side, but we

(56:06):
seeing it right now with HaleyBailey and DDG.
You know what I'm saying, yeahyeah, Like we don't know what's
going on in they home, but assoon as she said, he the world
ready to chew him a new one.
And I'm like why?
Because she the mama.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
So it's easy for y'all to believe that without no
proof and everybody ready to beokay with it remember we
recently just shared earlier,like hey, man, him being, as a
black man, regardless of wealways wrong, yeah, you always
wrong, but how you're gonna beviewed is either whatever you
doing.
When he, when they was together, it was great, he was cool, it

(56:43):
was cool to have locks and youtalk rapping.
You got an actress woman who'ssaying now he dangerous, oh, he
didn't cut his hair, he made,he's streaming, he doing
anything.
They trying to look to benegative when it's like as a
father, I get to see man, thatnigga, lonely man he's trying to
occupy his time when that womanis pawing in that child because

(57:05):
it it, it favors her, her forsure.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
When it was, they were happily together.
It was oh, that's a great dad.
You know relationship goal yeah, you know I'm saying he was
taking the back seat when shewas little mermaid.
You know I'm saying yeah whenshe was going on tour with her
sister.
Like that is what the goalshould be.

(57:29):
You know, if he got to take the, as men got to take the back
seat I'm not saying we alwaysgonna be the the breadwinner,
I'm not saying that.
But the narrative switched onthat man so quick.
Like it was, oh, he's doingwhat he's he's supposed to do.
But then, as soon as she cameout and was like, oh yeah, it's

(57:52):
time to go now, this man, thatwas just a great dad who was
uploading videos of whateverlittle nigga name oh, he don't
need to be around his daddy.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
They make him like ambitious man, and that's what
makes me sad Like the world canchange that narrative and make a
loving, caring father be hatedby his own people.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Overnight Without knowing Nothing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Nothing, man.
Own people overnight withoutknowing nothing.
Yeah, nothing, man.
And you wonder why suicide ratefor men is like 53.
Most men don't even make it to50 years old.
They take themselves out ofhere like this.
It's, it's a serious, seriousthing, man.
It's a serious thing and toknow it's designed for you to

(58:47):
fail.
There's only few who getvictories, who get some wins,
right, but it's designed for youto still look bad, as the man
Looked at as like you didn't tryhard enough, you didn't do
enough, you didn't, and it'slike, really, really, what else
you want me to do?
There is, you know what systemthere is for me out here in the

(59:10):
world that helps me?
Jail.
There is no national section.
Eight for men None, there is nonational.
Hey, I'm going to give the mana job, right, society?
Right, there is no.

(59:30):
That is most men supposed to berepublican.
Get it by your bootstraps.
The sweat of your brow is like,hey, you even take it to a
place at a time where it's like,hey, I was a black man, I
couldn't even get employedexactly.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
You'd rather see me on the street.
So you know I'm not a hundredpercent sure when it kicked off,
but I know it was during thetime period of in between Dom
and the twins.
So Ohio has something called Ithink you probably are familiar
with it it's called the bubblegum law, the double dip act or
whatever.
So when Dominic was younger,you know, obviously, as the

(01:00:03):
economy has changed one benefitis because I've always been
current on his child support isbecause they don't have a
plethora of caseworkers.
They've pretty much left mealone.
But imagine paying what I payfor him when minimum wage was

(01:00:25):
five, 25.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
So I minimum wage was $5.25.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
So it was days where I had toworry about if I'm going to eat,
because I can't go downtown andsay, hey, can I get food stamps
too?
Like, but you taking from meand then you saying that it's
based off of gross and net,gotta be the custodial, you know

(01:00:50):
.
So, uh, being in thosepositions before it was
definitely, definitely,definitely tough.
So the the the double dick atdouble dip act pretty much is
saying that they change thingswhere if a man has multiple
streams of income, they can onlytouch into it maybe once a year

(01:01:11):
.
So, bringing that a little bitfurther up to speed, so let's
say they're taxing your mainsource income job.
But then I turn around and Isay well, damn, now I don't got
enough to provide for me and goout here and I get a part-time
job.
They aren't supposed to groupthe income together now, they're

(01:01:34):
just only supposed to base itoff of one.
You know I'm saying, but theencouragement of that was
because, man, we're really outhere being forced to choose
between life or death, whichthen associates under the table
jobs.
Like people don't understandthat people aren't finessing.

(01:01:55):
Just to finesse is because theyain't got no choice, you know
what I'm saying, when you onlythink of it again from one
perspective.
I know, I know some men out herewho rather pay out of pocket to
the child support officeinstead of having a taxable, you

(01:02:17):
know, a job, because that'swhat they got to do to survive,
you know so yeah, man.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
So tell me this when it comes to just being a father
now and the resources that areout there, can you tell the
people the resources that you'veused or taken part of, that
kind of put you at the place youare now?

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
The last two years I have been in a full-blown
custody dispute, which endedthis past September with me
being given full custody of mychildren Congratulations.
So during this time period,like I said, bringing it back to
what I mentioned before I haveseen both sides of what a man

(01:03:09):
has to go through in terms ofjuvenile slash, civil matters,
um being awarded custody of mychildren.
Um, as of last year, therearen't a lot of programs out
there that say dads can benefitfrom.
So I don't know if you guys cansee my shirt, but cowhugger

(01:03:33):
county has one, uh, it's calledthe fatherhood initiative.
Um, another one that they haveis called the passages program,
and there are, I'm sure, a lotof other ones, but those are two
light of the major two.
Uh, where we are, so the theyteach you, um, co-parenting

(01:03:57):
skills.
They teach you how to be abetter father.
They try to bridge that gap interms of employment.
They'll have jobs, fairs andthings of that nature, but where
the snag isag is is, again, westill have to be able to survive
.
So they'll introduce you topeople, which is a great, great,
great, great, great asset tohave a voice instead of just

(01:04:20):
giving me a number or rushing meoff the phone and then from

(01:04:41):
there, they connected me to thepeople that were able to step in
to help me, connected me to thepeople that were able to step
in to help me, um, my lawyers,natalie, natalie Thomas and
Katera Kennedy.
You guys have uh donemiraculous things for me, um,
and I appreciate you guys.
So there's, there's.
You guys just shout out forsure, um, if you guys want to

(01:05:02):
contact them, for any fatherthat might be wanting to get
shared parenting or full custodyof your, of your children, um,
let me give me one second.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Uh shout out to them for being able to just step in
and have those resources for you, man, uh I met them through
aranton Road Legal Ministry.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
You guys can Google it, I don't want to hold up too
much of the time, just Googlethat number or Fatherhood
Initiative or the PassagesProgram, and these are located
in Cleveland.
Yeah, they're in Cleveland,ohio.
I also want to talk about thebrunching here that the Cuyahoga

(01:05:51):
County Fatherhood initiativedoes.
It's always the Friday beforefather's day, so it's next week.
Um, if you guys get a chance,register for that.
It puts everybody in one placebecause I know how tough it is
being passed around between thechild support it's only one.
You.
You can't be at the childsupport building, juvenile court
job and family services at workin bed and a dad all at once.

(01:06:14):
I encourage that.
If you guys can sign up for thisfree brunching, do it, because
it puts a lot of the supervisors, a lot of the shot callers, a
lot of the people who can giveyou those answers that you may
need to questions in one room.

(01:06:34):
If they can't talk to you, I'mmore than willing to be of help.
You know you guys can look meup on Facebook.
My first name is Terry Allen,so it's T-E-R-R-Y-A-L-L-E-N.
Nichols.
You can find me on Facebook.
Just shoot me an inbox man andtell me a little bit about

(01:06:56):
yourself, what it is that you'retrying to accomplish.
And I'm just going to give youthe real, because when you go
down to those places, everysituation is circumstantial and
they really don't want you towin anyway.
So they're not going to giveyou all of the information that
you really need, or they may noteven know.
You know, I'm saying because ofhow the game is set up, you

(01:07:19):
know, is is sometimes who youknow, not what you know that can
help you with that.
So, yeah, like I definitelywill give you more resources,
but in terms of the things thatI have been able to get, I ain't
gonna lie to you.
It wasn't nothing, you know.
I'm saying it was.
It was people that saw the hurtin my eyes, they saw the pain,

(01:07:41):
they saw the, dare I say, theshortcomings that I was being
given all the way down to manhaving to catch the bus with my
kids or not having a vehicle,because, again, I was going to
make sure that those three had.
You know, and I'm not sayingthat there are not women out

(01:08:02):
here who go through it, I'msaying that you guys, matter we
don't matter.
That's what today is.
We're not gonna do.
It's not a pissing contest.
Today is about giving the menwho deserve the credit the
credit.
It's about giving the men whowant the resources and the

(01:08:22):
ability to get you know, becauseI want that to be what's
important.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Fathers matter, man, so so, man, let me ask you this,
bringing, bringing it fullcircle, man If there's one thing
that you could change in oursociety pertaining to men and
how men are viewed, what wouldit be?

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
We definitely have to be better.
I will not say that that is nottrue.
But with our generation, like Isaid, dealing with this for the
past 17, 18 years, there is alack of understanding.
There is fear because we'reseeing the court system

(01:09:07):
intervene and favor childrenbeing with their moms, and that
does not necessarily mean thatit's the better situation.
I'll say.
In the past decade, I've seenmore fathers become courageous
in terms of fighting the legalbattle.
Courageous in terms of fightingthe legal battle.

(01:09:29):
It's gonna take time, it'sgonna cost money and you gotta
definitely uh produce theevidence and the paperwork you
know.
So I'm not gonna tell you thatit's gonna be a easy uphill
battle.
But as long as we continue tochange the narrative of that, we
don't want things to change uh,they will have no choice but to

(01:09:50):
respect our voice in terms ofbeing looked at or viewed as
equals.
Um, if I had to say one or twothings first would be um, for
I'll just put it out therebecause it's true, if I think
everybody should get dna testsat birth, you know, I'm saying

(01:10:13):
that it it's a lot of things incourt that could go the route
that ties up the court systemthat may not even have to be the
case.
You know, um, that's first andforemost.
Um.
I also believe that some of thelaws are a little prehistoric.
It's tough because I can'tcontrol, if we're separated,

(01:10:39):
what you do or where you live,you know.
But I think that somethingshould be taken into
consideration, because if it'sabout the child, sometimes I
can't be the best father I canbe If you are an hour away, two
hours away.
So just more compassion is whatI would like to see.

(01:11:03):
Change for sure.
Um, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, man, being educated on it
is healthy, like you, beingable to give people your story.
What you've been through, whatyou're going through, the steps
that you've learned, is probablyso much further than what most
people have done.
Knowing that, like you stated,a lot have given up, bro.
Yeah, knowing that, like youstated, a lot have given up yeah

(01:11:28):
, they're gonna give up a lot ifyou don't if you don't know?

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
you know you're just gonna assume.
Why would I want to fight?
If you don't, how can you learn?
Because you know, um, I loveall of my children equally.
They bring out different thingsin me.
And what you just said about youand kj's relationship, I tell
dom the same thing, like I'mdefinitely tougher on him.

(01:11:54):
But I tell him, the reason I'mtougher on you is because you
haven't had me in the home, you,you you're with me on the
weekend, you know I'm saying,but you seeing things from a
woman's perspective every day,you know, um, so I make sure
that I crack down on him, not tojust be a firm disciplinarian,

(01:12:18):
but because I have to instill inhim, uh, a male perspective.
And what I used to tell him 50hours a week, um, and that is
not something that I always havewanted, you know.
But I also tell him you don'tunderstand the sacrifices that

(01:12:39):
it took for me to get the 50hours.
You know, like having to workthird shift jobs and missing out
on sleep, you know, to makesure that I can attend his
events.
It was what mattered to me.
The twins they had me at homefrom birth up until their mother

(01:13:00):
and I separated and I made surethat I stayed in close
proximity.
So then that way I can stillsee them every you know, every
day if I could, but mostdefinitely every weekend, until
I ended up getting custody ofthem.
Um, so with dion, I'm sure he,he's a little boy, you know,

(01:13:23):
he's six I'm sure he thinks thatI'm tough on him, but dom tells
him all the time like shit, youknow, like you got it.
You don't even know, you know he, uh, dion caught you in a
season yeah, in a better place,emotionally seasoned as a dad,

(01:13:44):
yeah, you know, like he uh morein tune with myself, my emotions
, uh, all of the above, um, andthen you know, so my twins are
one boy and one girl.
Um, so drew has taught me theimportance of being a a girl dad

(01:14:15):
.
To like how I discipline her isdifferent, like you know, like
I talk to her, you know what I'msaying.
Where I went, dion, I gotta puthands on him.
You know what I'm saying, butyou know I'm saying where I went
, dion, I gotta put hands on him, you know, like, uh, it having
them in my home, even thoughtheir mother and I are separated

(01:14:37):
, has taught me to be a littlebit softer with the mother of my
children.
It's taught me to expect morein my future of dating.
It has taught me that my wordsare just as powerful as my hands
can be.
So when I sit down and talk toher, I can tell that I'm

(01:15:02):
teaching her how to be lovedcorrectly by a man.
You know, how to love a man isvery important to me.
So I I feel like, uh, a lot ofpeople didn't have that because
they didn't have the dads in thehome.
So you know, it could besomething simple.

(01:15:25):
Like you, I'm teaching her howto cook already, right now, or
like she'd be like well, dad,why do I got to do this?
It's not because I'm pushingwhen, should I say like sexual
chores?
No, like I'm making sure thatwhen I'm in the kitchen, she in
the kitchen.
You know, I'm saying like youknow, or you know, just to be on

(01:15:47):
her business.
So, having my kids, like I said, I'm seeing the differences in
my involvement and how Iinteract with them as well.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
So I guess that's a dope thing, man.
So for you to be the father inthe home, which is almost
unheard of, that is the singledad.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Yeah, I know no help, put that out there.
Zero, no names.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
But you know me, so you know her yeah, I find it
dope, man, single dad, youmeasuring up, you hitting the
mark of you got a boy, you gottwo boys and a girl.
You, you're making alladjustments that you need to you

(01:16:35):
.
You smile through it, for yousmile through it.
Um, though, you are true aboutwhat you feel, like, hey, this
isn't light, this isn't.
It's a heavy burden for sure.
Yeah, yeah, but the way that yougive man, you give people hope,
you give men hope of hey, manbrody really stepped in and

(01:16:56):
cared about his children enoughthat somebody saw fit for him to
for them to be with him.
You know what I'm saying andyou thankful for you, you
appreciative of it.
And it was something that youdon't really get to see or you
don't get to hear men be likehey, I care about my children
too.
I care about them just as much.
It should never be a rival ofwho loves the child more, right,

(01:17:20):
you know what I'm saying.
That's an unhealthy place to be.
And recently this might be acouple months ago man kj had
asked vanessa and I out of theblue, like, are you guys getting
divorced?
I'm like, no, I mean, what madeyou say that?
Because if you guys do, I'mgonna like live with mom during
the week and I come with you theweekend.
I'm like why?

(01:17:40):
but damn son, I would have beenlike why did this come from
right, but it was he's aroundlike two or three of his friends
parents that got divorced.
Yeah, you know I'm saying so.
That's a common thing.
I think one of his best friendstheir parents got divorced.
His dad moved to florida.
The other guy they got divorcedum when his friends in school,

(01:18:02):
they, their parents, got adivorce.
So it's like it's more commonthan what you think.
Uh, but because we are marriedand he just he sees divorce on
tv, right, you know the kids, hehear the music.
So it's like, hey, if you guysdon't get a divorce, I'm, I get
two christmases, so I get likewhat is one of them?
Bro, you will really be fuckinghurt.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
I wouldn't hear yeah, and, and you know, like I am a
product of that.
You know and we'll you know.
I'll go a little bit more indepth to stuff people who don't
even know unless you really,really, really, really really
know me what I'm getting readyto say you don't know.

(01:18:42):
You know what I'm sayingbecause my mom did a great job,
even though she and I reallydidn't have the best
relationship.
What my mom taught me was shenever tried to be both mommy and
daddy.
You know, my mom taught me howto be a man's man.
She taught me what I should dofor women, if that makes any

(01:19:05):
sense.
But my parents went through adivorce at a young age and, um,
I saw the mental, mental tollthat it took because me and my
father were inseparable, like wedid everything together, like
I'm talking about.

(01:19:25):
He was my hero, before I evenknew what the word meant.
If I could have been in hisskin, that was how close we
would have been.
Like I'm talking abouteverything he did I wanted to do
.
And when my parents startedgetting divorced to me, it was

(01:19:48):
because I was young.
My parents got divorced when Iwas nine, or whatever.
I didn't really understand itbecause that's how I was looking
at it Like it's no big deal.
You know I'm still going to getto see daddy, but my father
committed suicide two weeksafter my 10th birthday.
So in the course of a year anda half he went from having me in

(01:20:13):
the home every day.
You know I'm sure there wasother mental health issues that
you know he was dealing with,but to take his, you know I got
older sister but I was yeah, youknow what I'm saying like we
were inseparable.
Now that I'm older, I look backat those memories and I saw a

(01:20:35):
man that was broken because helost the only thing that
mattered to him.
So to not be able to tuck me inthat night or pop up at you
know, like my mom didn't stophim from being a dad, but it was
just different.
You know like my mom didn'tstop him from being a dad, but
it was just different.
You know I'm saying you can bethere and not be.
Yeah, you know I'm saying so.

(01:20:56):
When we have to be in a placeof understanding that our kids
are just expecting to go withmom, I don't think that nobody
understands the depression thatcomes with it.
You know, I'm saying likethat's tough.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
When kj said that, that led for vanessa and I to
have a conversation, though itwas drenched in humor, right,
hypothetical.
Yeah, yeah, it's drenched in alot of humor.
She knows that I'm one of thosefathers.
She, she's like you're notgoing to just let me leave Hell.
No, she's like nigga, I knowyou not and I'm like you got.

(01:21:37):
You got you got.
I'm calling Tim Misny.
Bitch, I'm calling Tim Misny,I'm making a face.
But it was like I love mychildren and I love being a
father man, you have anythingelse?
Yeah, it's like I'll pay you tostay away.
I'll pay your ass to stay thefuck away.
But we here, you know what I'msaying.

(01:21:57):
But it was one of them like,hey, you can't make me feel like
you're doing me a favor takingmy children away, or you can't
make me feel like I'm beingpunished by having my children
with me.
Right, you know what I'm saying.
I've seen some of my friendswho got children and them and
they mother the child, mother,not together, but she use it as

(01:22:19):
like a flex, like i'ma have himget the baby, he gonna do this
and do that, and then the fatherbe like bring me my fucking
child, bitch, I ain't, you ain'tlike you ain't you ain't
flexing on me, wanting to be apart.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Now, dom's mom does do that and I hate it.
And it's good cop, bad cop.
But because I have to be moreassertive with him, it
definitely is hey, if you don'tdo what I'm telling you to do,
I'm going to take you to yourdaddy.
What?
Why can't it just be man?

(01:22:53):
I'm going to take you to yourdaddy.
What?
Why can't it just be man?
I'm gonna take you to yourdaddy.
You know I'm saying because Iobviously can't do it.
You know, I'm saying and she hasmaybe some intentional and not
always intentional victimizedherself because it's easier to
do you know I'm saying and andyou have to have a cast of yeah,
he ain't yeah, so if you have avictim, for those who are in

(01:23:19):
tune with their reading orliterature, that means you have
to have an antagonist.
So what you basically istelling them is if I'm the hero,
what is daddy?

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
yeah, yeah, like that , hey, and that's and that's
probably some subconscious levelof how children probably
process it mommy here, get mommyhere, daddy not here, or when
he do pop up, it isn't, you know, you mad at him, or just the,

(01:23:54):
the shenanigans that I've got tosee and hear from, like my
peers, my bros, my circle in thecircle of, in these circle of
men who all are fathers and theythat want to be fathers I don't
know I was about to lie.
I do know some bad dads oh yeah.
Oh then y'all don't skate.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
I know some bad fucking dads, I don't I don't
hang out, man, I call, I calldeadbeat dads out every chance
that I get.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
Yeah I don't, I don't , man, I don't.
I used to have compassion, Idon't have none.
Okay, okay, we at the sameplace now.
I used to have compassionbecause I didn't know stories, I
didn't know, like, hey man,he's done a third.
But I also know nobody gives afuck about me, right, and how I

(01:24:45):
have to tend to my children andthings like that.
So if I don't get a pass and Ichoose to step into it, this
person is purposely avoiding andusing the circumstances.
Yeah, yeah, yeah we can havehonest dialogue.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but you're not
going to give me excuses of whyyou just not.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Yeah, why you not going to give me excuses of why
you just not get, why you not?
You can't, you can't.
You can tell me hey, bro, I'm,I'm financially fucked up, she,
she got a problem.
You, I'm willing to listen, butyou can't tell me, as, as we
said earlier, bringing it fullcircle.
You and her don't got thatRight.
That ain't you in that child.

(01:25:30):
Okay, as me find recentlyfinding my side of the front, my
father's side of the family,not me finding my sister and my
mother found my father's side ofthe family online.
Keep in mind, nigga, I've beenasking where my daddy at for 38
years all right, I've beenasking where he at for 38 years.

(01:25:52):
My mother and I didn't have thebest relationship, though I love
her and I know my mother justlearned learning my mother's
history.
My mother was born with abroken heart, so I I learned to
understand and forgive the the.
This child wasn't potentiallyborn through love.

(01:26:13):
Oh yeah, that's the thing, youknow.
That's a real thing.
Like, this child wasn't bornthrough love.
This child, like children gethere, okay, people get here.
Yeah, I'm a I'm a.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
I'm a I'm not going to say a circumstantial product
of that.
I'll say I'm.
I was raised uh, more so with abusiness mindset.
You know I'm saying my, myparents were both successful and
wanted to get out of theirproduct of environment.

(01:26:44):
You know, I'm saying so to themit was elite, breed elite, but
they were not compatible.
So my sister and I missed outon the things that were probably
the equivalent of you know whatI'm saying.

(01:27:05):
Like I was, I was taught how tobalance a checkbook, yeah, and
I was taught a lot of skills.
Business.
I was not taught love, you knowexactly.
So that's why I agree with you.
I'm learning that with mychildren, my partners.

(01:27:25):
I've been told, told.
You know, like I'm notemotional, I love who I love,
you know I'm saying, but myinteraction, like you know, with
my friends is different than mywoman.
You know I'm saying for sure so,like I've been told, like man,
you cold at times.
No, I'm not cold, I'm justmeticulous to certain things,

(01:27:49):
like I'm like, and that's whatI'm just trying to be better at.
The one thing that you cannever say is I'm not going to
handle my business, you know, interms of what is necessary for
this home.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
Yeah, yeah yeah, for the children, for mothers, for
even the hands that that carefor the kids you know.
So, like I said, well, therelationship with my mother and
I didn't really have, uh, thebest, though I know my mother
loved me and that we both waslearning at the same time, just
like me and kj.
So a lot of understanding andforgiveness comes in of

(01:28:26):
childhood trauma, circumstanceand situation.
As a full-on adult and I get tosee what our relationship is
now.
It makes me value therelationship with my child more
and say, hey, I don't want mychild to ever feel like they

(01:28:46):
don't want to talk to theirparent, that they don't want to
be around their parent, thatthey don't want to be around
their parent.
That when they got a chance toget strong and get a voice, that
now they're using it to expressto me how they feel through
their pain, because they neverhad a chance to be able to say
have that space to say yeah, dad, this is how I feel.
Yeah, mom, this is how I feelas I'm learning with my own

(01:29:09):
child and as I even teachvanessa from things that I've
learned and still learning likemy mother was great at teaching
us a lot of things.
Man, I, I'm the genius that I ambecause I was my mother's an
educator, right, all right.
So it's, we had books and foodin the fucking house.
Okay, books and food.
This is before the internet.
Go read an encyclopedia, niggathat was that was mama.

(01:29:32):
Okay, so I am what I am on a lotof attributes, of skills,
because of what my motherinstilled in me.
My mother raised her sons butloved her daughters, okay.
So this is why my brother and Iare as domestic as we are, like
we can balance a checkbook, goto a grocery store, cook, clean
wash, do laundry and go put ahard hat on, build you a bridge,

(01:29:57):
whatever you need, right?
My sisters look to be loved bya man who has some of these
attributes that their brothershave.
So this is what comes with theprotectiveness of them.
But then it comes with the, theprotectiveness of them, but
then the, the standard that thatman has of like, hey, I can

(01:30:18):
handle a lot.
I need you to match me.
Okay, I don't need you to comein per se cleaning and cooking
for me, which is great, but Iknow how to do that.
You have to give more, okay, sobringing it, you know, full
circle, man, one of the thingsthat my uncle has said to me rip

(01:30:39):
my uncle, ed edrick brooks,edrick harold brooks, yeah, big
ed man.
Shout out to him, he, him, andmy aunt terry shout out to my
auntie, terry, lady t they hadcame.
They came over one day out ofthe blue from a trip and they
stayed on vacation at a time.
They were just they was.
They stayed on flights andrunways.
But my aunt called me, like hey, baby, y'all at home.

(01:31:00):
We like, yeah, we're here.
So they like we're gonna comeon through.
We got some gifts for you.
I'm like all right, bet.
My uncle, my aunt came andtrying to get emotional, but my
uncle, my uncle and my aunt came.
I'm trying not to get emotional, but my uncle and my aunt came
and my aunt gave Vanessa thisreally nice purse that she,
vanessa, like she don't evenwear it, she don't even put it
in the bag or nothing.
Now she like she just it's justlike a souvenir.

(01:31:21):
And she was like you know, Igave you that, I wanted you to
have that.
My uncle and aunt got me a nicewatch.
They know I'm a watch person.
So they gave me a really nicewatch and was like you know, I
wanted you to have it.
My uncle just giving me that.
That man talk though my aunt.
You know she, my aunt, alwaysbeen my biggest fan.
Monty terrier always been mybiggest fan.

(01:31:42):
Anything I've ever had or done.
She's always showed up, her andmy uncle.
They came early and stayed lateright and they helped out with
whatever was needed.
They bought liquor, food,chicken wings, whatever, but
they was like always, yeah,count on them, and they always
was there.
I missed the shit out that man,all right.
That being said, my uncle wasgiving vanessa praise and was

(01:32:08):
like man, you know, I love whatyou and my nephew doing and how
y'all got things going.
You don't really see that tooyoung or whatever.
My auntie was like all right,harold what you want me to be
like Vanessa and he was like no,I just love how she treat my
nephew.
Yeah, you know, like I justlove how she treat him.
And I know, as a man and thiswas his words, like I know as a

(01:32:29):
man, and this was his words,like I know, as a man it's
something that had to be said orsomething had to be done or
something with them for that manto want to emerge as a man,
right, to want to be a husband,to want to bring it out of it.
Yeah, yeah, you gotta showsomething, right, you know?
So him seeing that and beinglike, hey, I him being the only
married man in the family atthat time, yeah, the people was

(01:32:51):
married, you know, here andthere, whatever, but speaking
from a male perspective whomarried 30 some years, right, he
wanted to be there.
Even in his death, he's stilltaking care of my aunt and his
kids.
So to me, that's the, that'sthe man.
To me, that's the, that's theman.
That's the pinnacle of man Igot a chance to see until I met

(01:33:16):
my father's side of the family,meeting them and talking to them
, and my father passed away at53 years old in 2013.
Oh, so you ain't never meet him.
I never will.
Oh, wow, and that breaks myheart.
I'm grieving that.
All right, I never will.
Oh, wow, and that breaks myheart.
Yeah, I'm grieving that.
All right, that's messed up.
I'm grieving that, okay.
I lost my uncle, which was thebest man I've ever known, and

(01:33:36):
then my father, which was a manI never got the chance to get to
meet, right, you know what I'msaying?
I never got the chance to hangout.
I remember K played baseball,so we pitching.
He was like man you ever playpitch with your dad.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
I'm a nigga.
Why you hitting me on my softspot?

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
did you play catch?
I'm like you're gonna catchthese hands, small things like
that to him that he like I'mjust playing catch with my dad,
all right, this is somethingthat sits with me, like I never
play catch with my dad, right?
So, but meeting my father'sside of the family and I haven't
met him physically yet, wegoing down there, uh, 4th of

(01:34:15):
july where they at yazoo city,mississippi, oh, okay, country
boy, yeah, I'm hip, yeah, I'mhip, yep.
So when I talk to mama tracy,shout out to mama tracy, the
whole king family down in yazoocity, mississippi, I love y'all,
respect y'all.
Uh, when I talked to her on thephone, neither one of her,
neither one of us, can have aconversation without crying.

(01:34:36):
She look at me and be like boy.
We was, we was looking for you.
Your daddy and I was up there.
2013 was looking for you.
Brandy, which is my baby sister,she just graduated.
She wanted to invite you to toher homecoming prom or graduated
to, but she was having eventsat the school.
So she would be like, hey, man,you look just like that man.

Speaker 2 (01:34:58):
You look, just like him.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
And she just got to have her moment Right and me
having pictures of him.
When I get to like, if you seeme next to my mother, you're
like oh of him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
When I get to like if you see me next to my mother,
you're like oh you look likeyour mama, but if you see me
next to my daddy, you're likenigga, that's your daddy.
You got the Johnson sideburns.

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
Yeah, I got the burners, but oh, y'all got the
pork chops.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.
So when I get to talk to thatside of the family, they all
knew about me.
So that comforts me.
It wasn't like I was a secret.
It wasn't like my dad didn'tknow or like abandoned me.
It was and this is me fillingin the blanks for myself,

(01:35:41):
because I've asked my mother forclarity like to have a little
adult conversation, like I'velived long enough to see my own
shit come full circle, right,but don't mentally try to
manipulate and play me as likeI'm some child and I don't know
how this life thing goes.
Right, like, just keep it real,be strong enough to have that
conversation with me, or I'mleft to assume.

(01:36:03):
So when I talk to my father'sside of the family and I talked
to my siblings, it's like theyall knew who I am.
They all longed for thisrelationship with me.
It was like dad knew who youwere, we knew who you were.
They even put me in hisobituary.
Ok, so that was a heavy thingto me too to be like.

(01:36:34):
I ain't always had the bestrelationships with my siblings
that I have with my mother andeven what would alienate me at
times.
But I had a whole other side ofthe family who was longing to
be close to me, even now, evennow, like, hey, bro, okay, we,
can we come up there?
I saw your house on instagram.
Can I come up there?
Can I come live with y'all?
Can I come hang out or nigga,come down here.
We got the space.
Mama like, oh, trying to give meanything of my dad's right,
anything, anything.
She's like I got thesemotorcycles, you want a

(01:36:55):
motorcycle, I got one of them.
My sisters be like hey, I loveyou, bro, we, we missed you.
We know you now that we knowyou bro, we talking damn near
every day.
And it's six other siblings, soit's a whole nother side of
family, cousins.
They down in the country,country farms, pigs, shotgun,

(01:37:16):
all that.
But it's like hey, that's, andI told Nessa I would tell Nessa
when I Permission to speakfreely.
Yeah, as I've learned to Allowher to be A safe space for me.
Mm-hmm, always wasn't For sure.

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
That's the truth For sure.
Like y'all gotta Gather on thatone.
If y'all ain't, y'all say it.
But that don't mean that don'tmean you are Right.
A man ain't, we are Bred to bethis way, but a lot of the time.
But that don't mean that don'tmean you are right.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
A man ain't, we are bred to be this way, but a lot
of the time is from what we see,what we feel.
So that's deep, yeah.
So I needed to allow her to bemy safe space because for a long
time she wasn't and I woulddeal with things the way that I

(01:38:13):
dealt with them and I wouldcoddle myself.
Usually, with women not havingthat great relationship with my
mother, I would always seek outwomen and I would seek out
aunties like the older women.
The older women tend to alwayskind of play favoritism to me or
were more attracted to me justdue to and I believe it truly
was just the attributes mymother taught me I'm at work and

(01:38:36):
I'm doing things and I'mhandling things, or how I carry
myself or conduct myself.
I would always intimidate or atleast what I believe I
intimidated women that were myage because couldn't couldn't
too often or too much play agame without me catching on
early, checking shit.
And when I was wild, I was wild.
But women who had a little bitmore class and a little more

(01:38:59):
tact, which were a little bitolder than me, those women knew
how to approach me, they knewhow to talk to me, they knew how
to yeah, they could seesomething and was like hey, this
nigga need nurturing right,more than you scamming them.
Because if you just learn it asa man, you, that woman, nurture
you or or talk to you in a way,not just seductively, not just

(01:39:21):
I'm trying to manipulate you,but really like, hey, you really
give a fuck about my being like, you really care about me and
it, or, and not just that, youlike me, right, you genuinely
like me, not for for what I cando for you or anything like that
, but just like, hey, man, Ilike you because you're funny,
or like you because you'reentertained and like because
you're smart, I like you becauseyou, whatever that.

(01:39:41):
Those were the way that thoseolder women would lure me in.
They would lure me in throughintelligence, through skill,
through cooking, through theyhad, they were established, they
could, they could hold theirown in the conversation with
women my age, I would intimidatethem.
So me being able to like, know,like, hey, when I would be hurt

(01:40:06):
and in pain, that's what Iwould do.
I would.
I just show up to a spa, I justbe there.
So eventually somebody willtalk to me.
I'm going to talk to somebody.
I know how to make friends.
I went to school on that daywhere they taught how to make
friends.
So I know how to make friends,I know how to interject into a
conversation on how to be theshow and I know how to just sit
the fuck back.

(01:40:32):
Be putting myself in temptingsituations didn't help the
relationship.
It was the easy part of justgoing to go lay up somewhere
else, feeling that temporarysatisfaction, that temporary
high, and then when I come downit the problem is still there,
or it's.
It makes a recurring thing.
So me having to express to herlike, seriously, severely, this
is, this is a certain way youhave to treat me or I, or to be

(01:40:57):
cold, right, certain way yougotta treat me.
It's a certain way you gottatalk to me and because I love
myself and I love myself waymore than you will ever love me,
me expressing that to her likeI don't need you to love me.
I think with most men, love isprobably fourth or fifth on the
list of like requirements.
Respect is, damn sure, probablynumber one for most men.

(01:41:20):
Right, respect me.
I say for me, respect me, let'sbe cooperative.
Okay, like, like, let's becooperative.
We don't have to be at odds.
If I say no, it should make mean enemy, just like for you, it
should make me an enemy.
Uh, be cooperative.
We don't have to be at odds IfI say no, it should make me an
enemy, just like you should makeme an enemy.

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
So understanding people don't really understand
that.
You know I've done my best tosharpen my communication skills
because cooperation isdefinitely important.
You know, no matter if you areseeing things different or not,
you know like that shouldn't bethe end goal, end all be all.

(01:41:55):
You should not blow shit up,especially if you love me.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
Yeah, but so we got it.
We got to cooperate, man, and Iwant to be valued.
I want to be valued and justexpress in that tour her.
It's like man I and it's aquote that I use it was like
most women know they supposed tohave a man, but do they know
how to have a man?
Keep one, do you know how?

(01:42:19):
Do you know how to have one?
Most women can obtain?
You can go get a man for sure,like we, not most men.
We ain't trying to be mysteriouswith you, like that shit, that
with me.
Oh yeah, figure me out, bitch,come on, you playing Men ain't
that mysterious.
It's really a straightforward,direct kind of thing.

(01:42:40):
I don't got time to be loopingback and forth because shit is
urgent to me on what it is Ineed to do or what's on my plate
to do, and if I need yourassistance, I need your
cooperation, I need yourunderstanding, I need your
respect, man, I need your, yourcommitment to me.
Then then, then, then, thenmaybe nigga open up and you are,

(01:43:05):
you could love a nigga, allright, but until then, if you
ain't respecting me, we can'tcommunicate.
We ain't got like nounderstanding, we don't got no
value on things.
No, some goals.
You something to do, you, you?
You default yourself, at leastto me, of being what I feel like
I am and knowing what I am.
You default yourself toentertainment.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
You default yourself to just something to do,
something to play with somethingto have around when I'm bored.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
You know you default to entertainment.
You can be some people wouldlive in entertainment, ain't
gotta, you know, tell people canlive in there.
But to me it's like no, I'm adeep intellectual brother who's
a wizard with words.
I need connection.
So I needed finessa to be mysafe space, even though she at a
time she wasn't.
But I thank her for I thank her.

(01:43:50):
I'll make sure I say thiscorrectly.
I thank her for thinking moreof herself to match me and meet
me places.
Okay, because she could havejust took it and was like I went
to easier road travel and dealtwith a nigga who required less
than thinking more of herself.

(01:44:11):
Like hey, and she know, herhusband it's like that nigga
could have been laid up was oneof his auntie friends at that
hospital.
One of them big booty bras inthe scrubs that be jazzy.
She come to work with jury onone of them.
He could have been doing thatbecause I know that's how he

(01:44:32):
used to soothe himself, but hecomes to me, so me allowing that
when she was working, remember,because I had some resentment
like, yeah, bitch, you wasn't,you weren't trying to fuck with
me when I was trying to do this,bitch, what the fuck?
Now you want to lick my woundsand shit, I'm mad I'm sad and
mad right now.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
I'll put that in words, I am upset.

Speaker 1 (01:44:54):
Now you want to tend to me.
What the fuck was you doingevery other day?
Well, now you want to work onsome shit.
When I'm done or I'm broken,I'm fucked up like what were we
supposed to be doing every dayuntil here?
You can't make me so.
It was one of them like we'rejust as important.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Yeah, that's what it boils down.

Speaker 1 (01:45:11):
So her having to see that and jeopardize our
relationship because bra wasdone.

Speaker 2 (01:45:17):
I listen out of the.
I left them both, yeah.
Repeat that, no matter what youheard.
I left them both, yeah, becauseI had to do what was beneficial
for me.
And sometimes we hurt just asmuch trying to make it work.

Speaker 1 (01:45:38):
Trying to make it work, trying to like I'm being
played as a fool and I pridemyself on making good decisions
and it was like none of thesedecisions were good.
None of these decisions led usto victory.
It just led us to more turmoil.
And then now you want to workon it when I'm broken and I'm
finished and I'm done.
It's just almost a spit in theface of like what, what the fuck

(01:46:01):
were you doing every day prior?
So us coming from that point inthat place?
It took time and it's takingtime.
Ok for me to be like I trust youenough to let you into what I

(01:46:21):
deal with emotionally and not besling back in my face, not to
be spit on me, smeared on me,because I emotionally let you in
.
I got to, usually most of thetime, be be the guidance
counselor or be the counselor orthe therapist for most people.
But when I need a chance to beable to vent, I'm not trying to

(01:46:46):
get all that information to theworld.
I'm not trying to give it toanybody that can compromise me,
the world, I'm not trying togive it to anybody that can
compromise me.
It's usually bottlenecked intoone or a few, because I don't
talk to her about certainhusband shit.
I talk to y'all talking my bro,I talk to man.
Shit right to get differentperspective, a most definite
different perspective.
But when I do feel a certain,when I want hey, hey, real shit,

(01:47:07):
hey, nigga, when I want to beheld, I ain't calling my bros.
I'm sorry, all right, I want mywoman to hug up on me, I want
to feel that warmth from there.
But I need to feel safe andcomfortable that that shit is
the shit and she was there forme.
So, growing to where we are now, where I can tell it like man,

(01:47:31):
it's loud inside my head.
It's loud inside my head today,very loud.
I need, I'm gonna take the dayoff right and let me just kick
back.
I mean, or she'll come and seeme, just she'll be like you're
hyper, non-active, verbal todayand she's like you're like
you're.
You're not usually nigga, yougot a lot to say.

(01:47:52):
You ain't saying shit in hoursand I'm like I ain't got it.
I ain't got it today or she'llshe'll come in.
You know you good, but it ittook, bro.
It took me breaking.
It took me breaking to see forher to which this is my piecing
of she never said it, but thisis how I read it in her response

(01:48:13):
of how she comes to my aid ofthings, her seeing me, me being
broken and I'm, and I'm broken,bro, I'm fucked her because
prior she was like nigga, Inigga.

(01:48:36):
You so mentally tough, you sostrong, you don't let shit
bother you.
I'm like.
It ain't like it didn't happen,though it ain't like I still
didn't absorb it.
It still wasn't like I dealtwhat.
I went through it.
I just dealt with it.
I went through it.
I just dealt with it adifferent manner.
But I'm at a place now whereit's like the cup is running

(01:48:56):
over.
Not just want good, but bad too.
I need a detox.
I need X, y and Z.
I need this.
But when I couldn't come to herat the time it was, I found
other outlets.
I'm finding hobbies and shit toher.
At the time it was, I foundother outlets.
I'm finding hobbies and shit.
I'm I'm going to the gun range,I'm shooting shit.
I'm being destructive as fuck.
You know what I'm saying I'mmaking beats, I started a

(01:49:18):
podcast, but I'm like nigga, I'mtrying to soothe myself in
other ways compared to how Iused to, because it was to me,
it was healthy, but it wasn'thealthy for us, right?
So if I need that from you Idon't want to be rationed and it

(01:49:41):
was and it's not a sexual, butit would be like it's an
intimate I need to feel close toyou, I need to feel attached to
you, I feel need to feelconnected to you more than just
our children on a uh mental anduh emotional yeah, especially me
expressing like I take goodfucking care of her so much that

(01:50:03):
it causes jealousy amongst herfriends or my friends or family
or other women.
It's like how does she get a kid, what do?
What do you do to make him dothe things he do for you?

Speaker 2 (01:50:16):
yeah, and then you know like, uh, so I was telling
a young woman last night thateven I'm single as a bill, you
know, um, even I'm single as abill, you know I always try to.
I guess it's just my mentality.
It could be the Libra in me.
I try to look at things from abalanced perspective left, right

(01:50:42):
, front, back, whatever you wantto call it and I don't blame my
felt relationships on anyone.
I take the good and the badfrom it though, you know.
So then that way, I know whatnot to do.
You know self accountability isimportant, self reflection is
important, but also being ableto say, hey, I saw how what that

(01:51:16):
did to me, yeah, you know.
So I hear you know being ableto say that you feel or sense
the jealousy from you guys'sthriving relationship compared
to what other people feel likethey deserve is, yeah, if they
not putting the work in, theygoing to keep ending up with the
same or less than yeah, yeah,yeah.
So I am single because I striveto be better.

(01:51:37):
You know I'm not like I was.
You feel me.
Yeah, it be a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:51:44):
Yeah, we used to be already together, bro, so I get
it.
I say this real quick.
You see the change.
Yeah, as a nostalgic moment,bro, we was out here early Early
Off the porch Outside and offthe porch, as they call it.
We outside and off the porchman.

Speaker 2 (01:52:04):
we was doing stuff, 13, 14.

Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
Man, and then everybody started getting cars
15, 16.
Man, everybody started gettingcars 15, 16.
Man, I learned Not everybodyeverywhere Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:52:14):
I learned how to catch the bus going to get some
buns.
I learned how to drive with hiscousin getting some buns I
learned how to get some buns,bro.

Speaker 1 (01:52:26):
You had the red.

Speaker 2 (01:52:26):
Saturn Dog.
So Big Ed used to be on thenights and Terry used to go.
We used to take the Buick, theblack.
Buick or the blue one, or theblack one or the gold van.
Yeah, you did have the gold vanthe Pontiac joint.
I learned how to drive BeforeEd did and we're like let's get
the keys.
I remember.

Speaker 1 (01:52:46):
But getting to see, getting to see, getting to see
young, wild, ambitious men, wewere become domesticated,
seasoned.
I think it was Kierre, mysister Kierre.
One time was like man it'sstrange as shit seeing you and
Keontae as dads, seeing y'all asfive.

(01:53:09):
That that shit crazy she's likewe grow up too.
You know what I'm saying likeyeah, so I said this real quick.
This is coming to mind when yousay grow up, shout out to mama
moan, the simone, as a vanessa'smother, my mother-in-law and I
don't even use the in-law term,but if I say mama now I gotta
break down.
So many mamas, yeah, but mamamoan is what I call her.

(01:53:30):
We was out here in the lounge.
We'll be broadcasting fromtoday.
Um, she had asked like why domen grow up so slow?
I'm like because you, whileheifers, move so fast.
I'm like when you young, youout here fast, acting a fool.
My granny du, we talk, we chopit a lot now on some adult side

(01:53:51):
of things, where she had a placewhere it's like who gonna whoop
her?
She 80 something years old, who?

Speaker 2 (01:53:56):
gonna whoop her?
Who gonna spank?
Her?

Speaker 1 (01:53:58):
But she like, hey, just speaking truth to test the
time of things.
She like, hey, man, I'm.
She like nigga.
I had my first child at 17,.
Pregnant at 16.
She like I like the older menI'm 13, 14, outside doing stuff.
I'm like ain't nothing new upunder the sun, right, yeah,
ain't nothing new up under thesun.
But she's like this is it'sbeen happening, right, you know

(01:54:20):
what I'm saying.
So she's like this is just whatit is, star, kind of hitting
them 30s or whatever.
She got so many kids and shegot you know these men.
And it's like, hey, man, Igotta, I gotta find some balance
in myself.
Somebody got to make an honestwoman out of me.

Speaker 2 (01:54:37):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, just be just, the
moment of transparency is.
I'm not saying that every guy'sa good guy, that's.
That's not what this is.
And again, I'm not fellas, wehave to be better.
But sometimes patience is avirtue, you know.

(01:54:58):
And again, theself-accountability sometimes
that man is what you need andyou ain't ready, you know.
Hey, sometimes you may thinkmore of yourself than what you
really are, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:55:13):
I'm saying like so I say that that's when you say
that that's a beautiful thing.
I say that because, like yousaid, some men or some women,
when hit with accountability,run, run and they find something
else easier.
But someone being able to meetthe challenge, like I said with

(01:55:33):
vanessa, her being able to meetthe challenge and with me, her
being able to express to methings it wasn't just one-sided,
like I'm just flawless, no, butme being able to express to her
like this is what I need, andher being able to think so
highly of herself she matches meokay at the same time of her
expressing to me like, hey, thisis what I need from you.

(01:55:54):
I need you to be a littlesofter with me, I need you to
talk to me just in a differenttone.
Okay, I respond better to you.
Hey, sweet, thank, I'll buy youa fish, y'allall.

Speaker 2 (01:56:08):
Then bitch, get the fuck out why you ain't cook
nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
So I understand the art of it, right, I understand
the art of it.
I understand the motion, Iunderstand we surfing with this.
I understand that, hey, myinteraction can either amplify
what you feel or change it.
You could be in a bad mood, butme coming to say, hey, what's

(01:56:36):
going on, baby, I just wanted tocome check up on you and it's.
I was just so stressed out,thinking that you said something
to me, but both of us being inthat space of time, so she'd
come out here to the loungewhere I chill at and come and
just peek out.
Hey, you good, just wanted tosee how you are.
I know you told me you knowcheck on you.

(01:56:58):
You ain't, are you okay?

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
yeah, I don't know.
I wish you know.
I again, as my evolutioncontinues to happen, I vocalize
more what I need.
But you know, definitely, assomebody that pours into so many
cups, you know as a brother, asa son, as a nephew, you know as

(01:57:27):
a friend, as a nephew, you knowas a friend, like it's not much
being reciprocated back intothat cup.
You know.
So what I require more of islearning my love language, which
is the quality time andaffirmation.
You know.
So I spend that time with mychildren but, like you said,

(01:57:50):
that softer side of me knows nowthat another reason that those
failed relationships didn't workis because it was being taken
for granted.

Speaker 1 (01:58:02):
So, yeah, that's important man to know that's
important man to know, yeah, sotoday's episode is brought to
you by Therapeutic RelationsHealthcare Services LLC.
If you are looking for a job,you can apply at
TherapeuticRHScom, and today'sshow was sponsored by Ben Boston
Media Company and by Lounge 87.

(01:58:25):
I have been your host, chiefAli, and I got tan man terry
allen nichols in here today aswe're talking about and wrapping
up what it is to be a father,fatherhood initiative.
Uh, fathers matter, but reallymaking the show really, really,
really centered today around menand men in general.

(01:58:48):
Yeah, okay, if you like anythingwe talked about or have any
questions and things you wouldlove for us to talk about, leave
in the comment section a fewthings below, just so that we
know.
Please like and subscribe.
You can follow me on Facebookat Ken Juan Authentic Johnson.
You can follow me at permission, the number two underscore,

(01:59:08):
speak freely podcast on IG andyou can follow me at Ben Boston
that's BNBOSSN on IG as well.
Anything else you want to leaveto people, man, before we sign
out?

Speaker 2 (01:59:19):
Oh, no, man.
Again, just happy Father's Dayto all the great fathers out
there.
Man, it's a laundry list to youguys that I wish I could shout
out for the young fathers or thefathers who just want more.
Just keep going, man, don't letanything beat you.
It's the lasting impression inwords that I would like to leave

(01:59:45):
with you.
Again, if you need thatencouragement, if you need that
support, if you just need toknow how to navigate the best
way, we can Notice I said we,because we have to change the
narrative Just reach out to me,man, and we can pray on it, we
can just talk about it andwhatever you need, man, I'm

(02:00:06):
there for you Fathers matter.

Speaker 1 (02:00:08):
Fathers most definitely matter.
Hey man, I'm there for you.
Fathers matter, Fathers mostdefinitely matter.
Hey man, thank you.
Thank you for being able tocome on the show.
So, man, info giving yourguidance and, as we in every
show, we end out with a prayerand we end with permission to
speak freely, so you care to endus in prayer For sure.

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
Dear Heavenly Father, just thank you for another day.
Thank you for the growth anddevelopment, thank you for the
opportunity to learn and speakfreely.
Thank you for family, thank youfor friends, ones still here

(02:00:50):
that are, you know, encouragingus to be the best man that we
can be.
Thank you for our loved onesthat have moved on, who have set
the standard.
Thank you for just anopportunity to continue to just
be who we are supposed to be,and I ask you for the guidance
that you continue to bless mewith In pray, amen amen, all

(02:01:11):
right, brother.

Speaker 1 (02:01:12):
Thank you all for tuning in to this episode of
permission to speak freely.

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