May 21, 2025 • 33 mins
We want our kids to have a deep authentic relationship with Creator of the Universe. How do we get there? How do we get the Jesus we so love to be the Jesus they so love?
Dave Rahn, co-author of Grit & Joy: Help For Bewildered Families of Teens joins us with insights from decades of experience co-mingling with Youth for Christ and as a professor at Huntington University to speak into helping our young people come alive to Jesus.
We talk about moving from getting our kids to be good kids, to getting them into a relationship with the God who loves them; what we can do as parent to create and on-ramp for our kids to experience the living God.
Also, is there a place in our kids’ faith for grit? If so, what does that look like? How can we see our teenagers be transformed by God’s love now. And Dave shares how modeling a vibrant loving relationship with God, full of honesty and vulnerability, creates a path into Jesus for our kids.
Also in this podcast:
Change is hard. Shawna and Perry share a massive change that’s happening for them and how that will affect you, if you love this podcast.
And last, Perry shares what he learned at Mamertine Prison in Rome where Paul likely spent his last days before he was beheaded for his faith. It was like Paul was saying to Perry, “Join me here!”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:03):
It's the Ferry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:18):
When you crash into grace, your life is never the same.
It was on the playground in fifth grade, and Lenny
Melberg said to me, Perry, I hope you can become saved.
And I said, I am a Christian, and I meant it.
And the Holy Spirit flooded my heart. Then I was
in a living room in Saint Paul, Minnesota, when I
was 16, and some other teenagers prayed for me, and
(00:42):
I lifted my hands and I didn't expect anything to happen.
And it was like waves and waves of liquid love
as the spirit filled me with his love. Then I
was 18 and I had just destroyed my ankle playing hoops,
and my mom prayed for me And Jesus took away
the pain in my ankle and touched the shame in
(01:03):
my heart with his love. Because I tasted the love
of Jesus, I wanted to follow Jesus. What can we
do as parents to create an on ramp for our
kids to experience the living God?
S3 (01:16):
Yeah, what a great question, Perry. Lest we become all
anxious and fidgety about the things that we're not doing,
I think that the the best thing I can do
for my kids is to love Jesus with all my heart, soul, mind,
and strength to do so with transparency. To do so
in proximity. I will be a model. The question is
(01:37):
what kind of model I will be? And what I
know about modeling dynamics is models who are effective in
influence also talk about why they're doing what they're doing.
They expose their everybody to their feelings, and they talk
about why and they offer explanations. So I know a
(01:57):
lot of good parents who are doing it, doing the
best they can with integrity, but they are. It's like
their lips are sealed and they don't offer that explanation.
So I think there's there's something about that that is
kind of mythological in the water for a lot of people.
They think, if I talk too much, I therefore forfeit
(02:19):
my integrity. No, not at all. Just make sure what
you say matches who you are because the kids know
who you are. So let them see you at every
level of the way you engage Jesus. If you only
engage Jesus on Sunday morning, and by the way, only
when the car ignition is turned off in the parking
(02:40):
lot at church, they see that. They notice that. On
the other hand, if you can't keep from talking about
Jesus or being with Jesus or enjoying Jesus, that also
is captivating and it's curiosity provoking and it happens in
proximity or it doesn't. So come close, you know, exposing
(03:03):
who I am, but most of all, having something authentic.
And that, by the way, may be the the favorite
word among youth ministry circles right now. Anyway. Authentic. They
smell the difference a mile off.
S4 (03:16):
We're talking with Dave Rohn this morning. He's the author
of grit and Joy help for Bewildered Families of Teens.
And what I'm hearing you say, Dave, is like, first
and foremost, we need to be personally doing the work
of walking in intimate relationship with God. And so much
of that of being honest with God is reconciliation of
(03:38):
that relationship. And so that has got to be at
the forefront of modeling faith, don't you think? Like, how
do we reconcile with our children and our give a
model for that of what that looks like to reconcile
and even probably, maybe primarily in saying I am sorry.
I'm so sorry I blew it.
S3 (03:58):
Yeah. Oh, now, now you're getting me some flashback times
about my own. My own dad journey. Right. Where I
had to say that. Where I had to, you know,
confess I had. I didn't do this right. This is
not who I want to be. And and then, as
my son and daughter got into teenage years asking them
for help because there's a, there's sort of this One
(04:22):
Direction thing that goes on before they hit 12, 13,
14 years old where the influence just flows from us.
But once they get to those adolescent years and all
the new brainpower starts and all that kind of thing,
there's something empowering when we invite them to help us
(04:45):
in our journey as well as, you know, let's just
go back and forth. Let's do this real together. Yeah,
let's check each other as much as we can. Open
up the the communication portals and just keep all things
short and call me out.
S2 (04:59):
It's discipleship. It's doing life together with our kids. And
it starts even before they're teenagers. It looks maybe a
little differently, but when they become teenagers, I mean, it's
really moving into that. We're going to do life together,
you know, follow me as I follow Christ. And you
know what? I'm going to follow you, too, as you
follow Christ.
S5 (05:22):
But what does grit have to do with faith?
S4 (05:26):
When my oldest daughter was about ten years old, she
was taking horseback riding lessons and her trainer took her
to a riding seminar. And on day one, she fell.
And it was it was pretty nasty. And the guy
running the seminar was so surprised to see her on
day two. He was like, I definitely did not think
you would be back. I thought you would have quit.
(05:47):
And he saw her and he's like, kid, you got grit.
He said to her, Good it is. I mean, the
definition of grit is courage and resolve, strength of character. And,
you know, you know, we talk all the time about
how we cannot earn our faith. There's nothing we can
do to win relationship with God. So I'm just kind
of curious. Dave, is there a place in our faith
(06:09):
for grit, and if so, what does that look like?
S3 (06:12):
Yeah. Thanks, Shauna. There's something about grit. So you read
from the dictionary definition. I grabbed a hold of a
book by Angela Duckworth, who's a researcher from University of Pennsylvania,
and she wrote the book called grit. So that social
science definition is what really captivated me. My heart started
(06:36):
racing when I understood, first of all, that she was
saying grit is singular, focused. And that immediately took me
to go, well, wait, that's like my faith in Jesus
is supposed to be. That's kind of what Paul talks
about in Philippians three, right? Like everything else I just
got rid of so that I could pursue Christ. No. Jesus.
(06:56):
That's it. Nothing else. And then you kind of go, well,
does that all fall in place? But that's when the
dictionary definition also kicks in. So once you are possessed
by this clear one goal, you do whatever it takes.
So you persevere. And then I like to I'm I'm
toying with the notion that you also innovate, for example
(07:19):
like I'm going, oh, this this habit isn't working quite well. Maybe,
maybe your morning devotional isn't isn't lifting your spirit. You
don't feel you feel like you're checking a box rather
than actually connecting to the Holy Spirit and listening. Well,
change it. Do whatever you have to do so that
you get connected to to Jesus. Add something. Throw a
(07:42):
little romance in the mix. You know, whatever happens in
that mix. But that's what gritty people do. So they
are clear minded about the goal, and then they change
everything to pursue that. And they and they do it with,
with persistence and endurance.
S2 (07:59):
You know what I hear you saying, Dave, is that
grit is something that we develop. And I think of
Paul's words, you know, he says, we rejoice in our
sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character
and character. Hope. I think I think there's grit in
the mix there that Paul's talking about. And so I
(08:21):
think we rob our kids if we don't let them
go through some hard things.
S3 (08:26):
Yeah. And it's it's counter instinctual for those of us
who are parents, isn't it? I mean, immediately, when you
see your kids in pain, you want to take away
that pain. And yet, you know, you would probably get
the questions right on a test that we understand that
pain is necessary for our formation. Well, that scripture is
(08:46):
really clear about that. I think misplaced grit, for example,
sort of sort of just one off grit. I mean,
Paul is a great example. He religiously was intense. He
had grit, but it was it was aimed at the
wrong thing. That's what he would confess in Philippians three.
S2 (09:06):
What's one thing in your life that was really hard
that you're thankful for because it created grit in your life?
S3 (09:14):
Oh, I had a relationship with my wife when I
was in college, but I felt like I was supposed
to for a season walk away from that relationship. Uh,
I still remember the train tracks at Huntington College, where
I argued and prayed with God about that and just
(09:34):
just doesn't make sense. I'm going to laying that relationship
at the altar. Persevering for nine months in, uh, kind
of a wonderment like, I don't know where this is going.
That was that was a key moment. I think my
first my first year after college, in fact, the first
month after I started full time, two young men from
(09:56):
the school that I was working with came to Christ
in a profound way like I'd never seen before. One
was a student body president, the other was student body
vice president. They were both co-captains of the football team.
One white, one black. But I still remember when Dave Stein,
on a Smoky Mountain backpacking trip, looked at me and said,
you mean what Jesus wants is everything? I said, yeah,
and he goes, okay. And that okay. Felt like it
(10:18):
had a heavenly reverberation. You know, one of those kind
of like he just decided something and he did. He
led his he led his friend in his tent to Christ.
That night he got home. He led Troy, who wasn't
on the trip to Christ that night. These guys and I,
we bonded, like intense for three weeks. And then a
(10:40):
tragic accident. Dave was electrocuted and killed. Troy was severely burned.
Bernd and I got that news, you know, five hours
away while I was being trained for rookie youth, for
Christ work. And I, I just I again, it started
in the authenticity of my own lament with Jesus like,
(11:00):
what are you God? I don't get this. I don't
get this. And all I could. And once I exhausted
myself in prayer, I felt like he said, uh, have
I ever let you down, Dave? No. Okay. You're going
to have to trust me here. And there wasn't an explanation.
(11:20):
There wasn't anything else. You're going to have to trust
me here. I anchor that as probably the most significant
formation moments of my ministry. Because for four years after that,
I saw young people at that school, Elmhurst, Fort Wayne, Indiana,
come to faith in Christ, in part because they had
(11:41):
connected to Dave Stein somewhere during his three weeks that
he walked with Jesus on the.
S4 (11:47):
Pow wow.
S3 (11:48):
And that just go, oh, that just it does. It
blows your mind. And and so I think I've got
some episodes like that. I imagine I'd like to take
you on a, you know, museum tour of my life
and stand in front of some of these displays and
let's talk about those. That's what testimonies are all about.
But they they build up and then you see God,
God doing it. And he's not done. By the way,
(12:10):
I'm 71. I kind of wish that I could just
be on cruise control and that there are no active
displays being formed in my museum now, but that's not
the way it is. That's not how it's going on.
S4 (12:21):
And here's the thing. Like we we want to have
the real Jesus. We want a real all in relationship
with Jesus. But man, do we want our kids to
have that too. We don't want to give them religion
and rules and good behavior and making us look good.
We want them to know God for who he truly is,
and for their lives to reflect who he is to
(12:42):
the world around them. Oh, man, that's our prayer.
S2 (12:52):
I have some regrets. I started following Jesus when I
was ten. The love of God was poured into my
heart at East Side Elementary School in Cheboygan, Michigan in
fifth grade when I was 16. I experienced waves and
waves of the Holy Spirit being poured into my life
in a living room in Saint Paul, Minnesota. But in
(13:14):
between those two experiences was failure after failure. I can't
ever remember saying no to a sexual temptation. It would
have been so awesome to be a robust follower of
Jesus in high school, to have represented Jesus better. But
that's not my story. And I'm at peace about that.
(13:36):
But David, is your story because you crashed into Grace
in high school. What happened to you in high school
first and then how can we see that happen in
the hearts of today's upcoming generation?
S3 (13:49):
Yeah, what happened to me in high school was I was, uh,
I entered a big high school in Peoria, Illinois, lost.
And I think of I think of that definition not
so much theologically as sociologically. I just wasn't connected, I
wasn't fit, and that was a first for me. Feels
like I was stumbled along. And so one of my
(14:09):
favorite words for meeting young people today, they're aimless. That's
who I was. Didn't have purpose, didn't have clarity, and
wondered what everybody was all about because I wasn't. I
hadn't figured it out. So hungry for a good friend.
A friend had invited me to spend the night at
his house. That's what I heard. But he also kind
(14:30):
of muttered something about a church activity. And that's where
I heard the gospel for the first time. Did not
know I wasn't a Christian. I did not know that
I could have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
That was. I just didn't know. So I wasn't out
there partying and and crazy. I was just clueless. That's
(14:51):
how I think of his lost. And then I rode
the coattails of that friendship for another six months. I mean,
all I, I remember sitting next to Brent in an
English class and just leaning over and whispering, is this
what is this what we believe? Do we believe? So
I don't really know. I don't have my own beliefs
until I figured out and started coming to church as
a junior and then Sunday school and then boom, it
(15:15):
just it was a retreat midway through my junior year,
I just go, this is about Jesus, all about Jesus,
all in about Jesus. And I just took off and
started practicing what the Bible said. I remember a moment
where I read John 1010 and stepped back from the
notion of an abundant life and said, I don't think
(15:36):
I have that. I just, I just said, I don't
know exactly what that is, but I don't think I've
got it yet. So either either it's there for me or.
Or God's a liar. So I think I gotta go
get it. I gotta, I gotta do something about this.
And I just started. I was surrounded with friends who
were ready to invent. And I think if there's a
(15:58):
pathway that I most favor for adolescents, I think it
is about like have friends who keep risking socially deeper
walk adventures with Jesus, with you. And and that will
include everything. But it might be anchored in some practices,
(16:19):
like just praying together if you want to test that. Like,
do you and your friends ever pray together when you're
not told to by a youth pastor or set up?
You know, just like all by yourselves?
S4 (16:30):
That is so great, such a good measure of man.
Are the people helping you to become more like Jesus?
Are you? Are you going to Jesus together, even when
nobody else is telling you to do that. My youngest
daughter is not a teenager anymore. She's 22, but she
just moved to Franklin and it's Nashville area. You know, Franklin, Tennessee,
and it's taken her a while. She moved there in
(16:51):
March and she's been trying to find her people. Well,
she just really found her tribe. She went to a
young adults group, and this group of girls has just
really enveloped her. And they've been hanging out outside of
church and doing things together and whatnot. And the other night,
one of the young people was sharing a hardship that
they were walking through. And my daughter said, well, can
(17:12):
we pray for you? And he said, yes, please do.
And she said, I mean, right now, can we pray
for you right now? And he said, yeah. And so
they all gathered and prayed. And when the prayer time
had kind of come to an end, the group of
friends had said, you know, it's just only been like
two weeks that they've known each other. And they said, Haven,
you've changed us. And she said, you've changed me. Wow,
(17:33):
that's what we want, right? That's what we long for,
that our kids find that.
S3 (17:37):
You're tapping into. Actually, one of my research pursuits right now, too,
and I've been doing it since Covid. Partly because of Covid,
but I have I have logged a number of different
experiences for weeks at a time, half hour a week
with two friends, me and two friends. And I say, just,
we're going to get on zoom. We're going to spend
(17:58):
half the time talking about Jesus together, and the other
half the time talking to Jesus about each other, and
that's it. And I will stop it, I promise. It's
30 minutes. And I was basically trying to figure out,
could such a thing, a small thing, change my relationship
with him? And absolutely. And we're all I mean, it's
just like, and I'm going, that's a small thing. That's
(18:20):
not even that's just a little injection. I mean, I've
had good friends. We talk about ministry and we know
we love Jesus. We just don't talk about Jesus. And
I'm going just let's get at Jesus. Kind of an
Emmaus Road insistence thing.
S4 (18:40):
Well, if we spend any length of time together, you're
probably going to hear me say something about life rhythms
or simple, repeatable patterns. Because our life is made up
of our habits. It's made up of the things that
we do. And so much of my relationship with Jesus
has been nurtured in having a regular practice of meeting
(19:01):
with him and being loved on by him, and and
being in his word. If that's true, if life is
made up of our habits and the things that we do,
can we teach young people to form habits that grow
their relationship with God?
S3 (19:15):
Yes and no. Habits that have to be a part
of the formula. I mean, because it results in what's
in our heart. And, you know, Jesus said, out of
the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. And our
habits are formed, our habits leak out. Who we are
shows up in the things that we do on a
regular basis. Having said that, I have a huge cautionary
(19:36):
tale after 50 years of being in in ministry. And
that is we race to habits without without understanding what
a loving relationship and intimacy even looks like. We don't
know and want Jesus. And so we actually have tried
to sort of put methods all around, everything in ministry.
(19:57):
And people are very impatient about everything in a love
dance with our creator of intimacy. And so we don't
know what deep looks like. We we work on surface level.
In fact, in our book we talked about snorkeling, splashing
on the surface with young people, those kind of things,
(20:19):
which I think characterizes a lot of youth ministry in
our country. And we urge folks, if we're going to go,
if we want kids to get to the deep stuff
where identity is formed and habits leak out of our identity,
then we've got to do some scuba diving and scuba diving.
It's a whole different mystery to that. And we who
(20:40):
love kids best, we don't know how to scuba ourselves.
We can't take them there.
S2 (20:45):
Dave. Ron with us. He's spent 30 years as a
professor at Huntington University, and he's co-author of grit and
Joy help for Bewildered Families of Teens. Dave, what I
hear you saying is that we're giving kids religion. We're
giving kids a to do list. And if they do
(21:05):
these things, then they'll be a good Christian. Instead of
giving them the gospel, instead of giving them the transformational
experience that Jesus Christ brings, because that comes first. Is
that what I hear you saying?
S3 (21:21):
Yeah, you're right on, Perry. I think that's. Yeah. And
and knowing what I know about those who are youth
ministers who are paid and, you know, they hear the
voices of people who are parents insisting on good girl,
good boy formulas all the time. That's what parents seem
(21:45):
to care most about. And so ministry is taking shape
that direction. And because it goes in that direction, it's
very short sighted. It's not long term. It doesn't reckon
with the realities of Scripture that we all know about suffering, persistence,
all that that's necessary. And what we want is we
(22:06):
want our kids to be good citizens. We want them
to have a good living. We want life to go
really well with them, and we want it right away.
We do. We want the wins. I don't see anything
in Scripture that makes that makes sense. And I'm looking
at the data of what we've done in youth ministry.
I'm not real pleased about that either.
S4 (22:25):
The thing is, God has made us for relationship with him.
I absolutely love what you said about it being a
slow dance with a creator of all things. Well, change
can be hard, but God is faithful. Just over a
week ago, my daughter graduated from Judson. It was the
end of an era. My baby graduated college, so all
(22:48):
my kids have now graduated from college. And the very
next day, my oldest, Brynn, flew back to the Czech Republic.
My son had moved out in February. Of course, you
know my daughter Eden and her husband Grant and baby
Selah live in Australia. Another baby on the way, and
our youngest moved to the Nashville area in March, so
we are officially empty nesters. Also, a new season, new
(23:13):
change and all of these things are good. I celebrate
the changes, but changes are change. They're different and sometimes
different takes some getting used to, even if it's a
good change. Another big change that we're celebrating here together
at Moody Radio is transitioning to a national format featuring
a single national morning show, and we'll be on air
(23:35):
through May 30th. Perry and I will. And then we'll
be handing you guys off to Karl and Cruz. Some
friends of ours. Karl, Ali, Jonathan, Diana. Y'all are going
to love them. We're really grateful for the opportunity that
we've had to to start our days with you, to
encourage you and bless you and hear from you and
(23:56):
just share this morning time together. It's been really, really
sweet just to remind you that you're loved. To tell
you that you matter has been just a real blessing
for us. I just we genuinely want you to know
how much we appreciate you.
S2 (24:09):
Yeah, and there's some sadness. Of course I feel some sadness.
I'm excited about what God has for me next. I
feel like he's given me my marching orders. But there's
some sadness. There's a joy that I have in doing
this radio show. And we're already hearing from some of
our friends. Jody says this news makes me so sad.
(24:32):
But I trust that God has good things in store
for you all. I will miss you. You've been a
part of my family conversation for the last four years.
I love all you guys. Well, right back at you
and Stephanie, one of our massive friends. Over the top
friends who's going to bring us coffee one more time
(24:53):
says this is shocking and sad. Can I bring coffee
sometime soon?
S4 (24:59):
Coffee. So sweet. John Lyons sad news. He's got a
lot of emojis on his received on this end. Sad
crying face. Going to miss you guys. Oh, here's the thing.
We're going to miss you guys too. It's just been
an honor. An honor to hang out with you in
the morning, Perry. It's been an honor to do the
show with you.
S2 (25:17):
Likewise.
S4 (25:17):
Thanks for teaching me everything about radio.
S2 (25:19):
Well, gosh. Shucks, not everything, but some.
S4 (25:24):
Pretty much everything. I knew nothing when I stumbled into
this studio. I'd never been on radio before. Never been
in a radio studio, you know.
S2 (25:32):
And here's the thing we have been doing. I feel
by the grace of God, you and I have been
doing our best work up right at this moment.
S6 (25:42):
Because it's a good way to go out. Yeah.
S2 (25:43):
Just continued to grow and grow and grow. So it's
kind of like, you know, when Michael Jordan retired.
S6 (25:48):
Oh my goodness. Okay. Now it's getting thick in here.
S4 (25:53):
Anyway this season has been a real blessing and you're
such a huge part of that. So thank you. Thanks
for listening. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for encouraging us
because it really has been reciprocal. It's gone both ways
and we're so grateful. And we know that God's going
to continue to speak to you through Carl and crew.
Y'all are really you are in really good hands. You're
(26:13):
going to be pushed and you're going to be challenged
to grow in your walk with Jesus. And that's exactly
what we want for you. So we feel really, really
good about handing you over to Carl and crew and changes. Well,
it's change.
S6 (26:27):
And.
S2 (26:27):
It's.
S6 (26:27):
Sad.
S4 (26:28):
And it's.
S6 (26:29):
Sad.
S2 (26:29):
Yeah. There's just some sadness.
S6 (26:31):
Yeah.
S4 (26:32):
That's real. We can be honest about that.
S6 (26:34):
Yep.
S4 (26:35):
But you can be sure that God's going to be
with us. He's not leaving Perry, and he's not leaving me.
And he's not leaving you. And he's faithful, and he's
he's just really good like that. So even in the
midst of all the change, God is the same yesterday,
today and forever. He's constant. He's faithful. So keep your
(26:56):
eyes on him.
S2 (27:03):
The journey with Jesus is not about climbing the ladder
of success. It's about going down to a cross. It
was three weeks ago tomorrow that Teresa and I descended
into a dark, gloomy, claustrophobic dungeon in Rome.
S4 (27:19):
You have to say that as often as you can.
When I was in Rome, right? All right, so you're
in a pit. Why are we in the pit?
S2 (27:25):
The Mamertine prison.
S4 (27:27):
Ah! Gotcha.
S2 (27:28):
This was the place that Rome reserved for its greatest criminals.
It's where these prisoners waited for their execution by the
unyielding justice of Rome. This is likely, very likely where
Paul spent his last days, before he was marched outside
of Rome and beheaded for Christ. This was the place.
(27:50):
As I stood in that dungeon, I realized this was
Paul's final message to the church. He had said earlier
in his life. Follow me as I follow Christ. And
that path had led him to this prison. And as
I stood there, it's as if Paul was saying to me, Perry,
follow me into this place. Don't keep trying to reach
(28:14):
for the sky, but instead share in Christ's sufferings. Become
like Jesus in his death. It was as if Paul
was saying to me, Perry, this is our glory.
S4 (28:26):
This is. This is incredible. The fact that you were
standing at a place. I mean, there's a lot of
times where you can go somewhere, say, on my trip
to Israel, there were a lot of times where, like, hmm,
maybe Jesus was here, you know, kind of thing. But
to know that Paul stood in this place and to. Yeah,
(28:47):
what is significant. I'm so glad that you had this moment.
S2 (28:50):
Yeah. You know, it's not 100%, but I've done some
research and it's it's really likely because this was the
place for the worst of the worst. And Paul was
considered a threat to the Roman peace. So it was Peter.
And so they both were in there, most likely waiting
(29:11):
for their execution. How could Paul say that a prison
cell waiting for execution is my glory? Is our glory.
It's because Paul had cast himself in with Jesus. Because
of that, he knew his own journey would lead to death.
But he knew death wasn't the end because he knew
(29:33):
Jesus had defeated death by dying. He knew a victory
was waiting for him in his death. And he knew
that because Jesus had risen, Jesus would resurrect him. Paul
could embrace that prison cell as a friend, because he
knew it was one final step away from the greatest
(29:53):
longing of his life to be with Jesus and to
one day share in Christ's resurrection. He really lived this message.
You know, I want to know Christ and the power
of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings,
becoming like him in his death. And so somehow to
attain to the resurrection of the dead.
S4 (30:13):
In Galatians 220 comes to mind. You know, I've been
crucified with Christ. I no longer live, but Christ now
lives in me. The life I live in the body
I live by faith in the Son of God, who
loved me and gave himself for me like he is
such an image. Paul is such an image of that
lived out.
S2 (30:29):
Yeah, he really lived it. It's remarkable. But he was
just a human being like you and me. And we
have the same Holy Spirit to be able to live
this kind of life out. I think of how many
times I've drifted into climbing the ladder of success, all
the times I've gotten distracted, making achievements and accomplishments and
(30:50):
reaching the top and getting the applause. The focus of
my life. And Paul says, from that prison cell, I've
been there and done that. I reached the top. It's empty.
Why settle for chasing the wind when you can experience
the joy of giving your life away? Because you know
(31:12):
God's going to give it back to you for eternity?
Does that make sense?
S4 (31:17):
It does. We just. We chase after things that we
think are going to bring the satisfaction that only self-sacrifice can.
You know what I mean? Giving it all away for Jesus.
Like leaving it all on the court for Jesus?
S2 (31:31):
Yeah. Because we can live like we have nothing to lose.
Because we have nothing to lose. Because if we lose
our lives, like Paul, you know, we get life. We
get resurrection. All the things that I hope in, in
this life will not raise me from the dead. Only
one person, only one hope will raise me from that grave.
(31:55):
That's the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul didn't settle for worldly hopes.
He didn't settle. Paul didn't settle, period. So he could
say from that prison cell, that dark, dank prison cell.
And in fact, there's there's a hole in the ceiling.
And they would drop the prisoners down through that hole.
(32:17):
All just drop them down in there and it's it's
just not very big. And I think there were some
baptisms that happened down in there as well with Paul
and Peter. But Paul didn't settle. So he could say
from that prison cell, I have fought the good fight,
(32:39):
I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Now there is in store for me the crown of
righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to
me on that day, and not only to me, but
also to all who have longed for his appearing.
S1 (32:57):
Thanks for letting Gary and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the podcast comes from
their live show Gary and Shawna Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio,
Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 800
968 8930. And please subscribe.
It's the Ferry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:18):
When you crash into grace, your life is never the same.
It was on the playground in fifth grade, and Lenny
Melberg said to me, Perry, I hope you can become saved.
And I said, I am a Christian, and I meant it.
And the Holy Spirit flooded my heart. Then I was
in a living room in Saint Paul, Minnesota, when I
was 16, and some other teenagers prayed for me, and
(00:42):
I lifted my hands and I didn't expect anything to happen.
And it was like waves and waves of liquid love
as the spirit filled me with his love. Then I
was 18 and I had just destroyed my ankle playing hoops,
and my mom prayed for me And Jesus took away
the pain in my ankle and touched the shame in
(01:03):
my heart with his love. Because I tasted the love
of Jesus, I wanted to follow Jesus. What can we
do as parents to create an on ramp for our
kids to experience the living God?
S3 (01:16):
Yeah, what a great question, Perry. Lest we become all
anxious and fidgety about the things that we're not doing,
I think that the the best thing I can do
for my kids is to love Jesus with all my heart, soul, mind,
and strength to do so with transparency. To do so
in proximity. I will be a model. The question is
(01:37):
what kind of model I will be? And what I
know about modeling dynamics is models who are effective in
influence also talk about why they're doing what they're doing.
They expose their everybody to their feelings, and they talk
about why and they offer explanations. So I know a
(01:57):
lot of good parents who are doing it, doing the
best they can with integrity, but they are. It's like
their lips are sealed and they don't offer that explanation.
So I think there's there's something about that that is
kind of mythological in the water for a lot of people.
They think, if I talk too much, I therefore forfeit
(02:19):
my integrity. No, not at all. Just make sure what
you say matches who you are because the kids know
who you are. So let them see you at every
level of the way you engage Jesus. If you only
engage Jesus on Sunday morning, and by the way, only
when the car ignition is turned off in the parking
(02:40):
lot at church, they see that. They notice that. On
the other hand, if you can't keep from talking about
Jesus or being with Jesus or enjoying Jesus, that also
is captivating and it's curiosity provoking and it happens in
proximity or it doesn't. So come close, you know, exposing
(03:03):
who I am, but most of all, having something authentic.
And that, by the way, may be the the favorite
word among youth ministry circles right now. Anyway. Authentic. They
smell the difference a mile off.
S4 (03:16):
We're talking with Dave Rohn this morning. He's the author
of grit and Joy help for Bewildered Families of Teens.
And what I'm hearing you say, Dave, is like, first
and foremost, we need to be personally doing the work
of walking in intimate relationship with God. And so much
of that of being honest with God is reconciliation of
(03:38):
that relationship. And so that has got to be at
the forefront of modeling faith, don't you think? Like, how
do we reconcile with our children and our give a
model for that of what that looks like to reconcile
and even probably, maybe primarily in saying I am sorry.
I'm so sorry I blew it.
S3 (03:58):
Yeah. Oh, now, now you're getting me some flashback times
about my own. My own dad journey. Right. Where I
had to say that. Where I had to, you know,
confess I had. I didn't do this right. This is
not who I want to be. And and then, as
my son and daughter got into teenage years asking them
for help because there's a, there's sort of this One
(04:22):
Direction thing that goes on before they hit 12, 13,
14 years old where the influence just flows from us.
But once they get to those adolescent years and all
the new brainpower starts and all that kind of thing,
there's something empowering when we invite them to help us
(04:45):
in our journey as well as, you know, let's just
go back and forth. Let's do this real together. Yeah,
let's check each other as much as we can. Open
up the the communication portals and just keep all things
short and call me out.
S2 (04:59):
It's discipleship. It's doing life together with our kids. And
it starts even before they're teenagers. It looks maybe a
little differently, but when they become teenagers, I mean, it's
really moving into that. We're going to do life together,
you know, follow me as I follow Christ. And you
know what? I'm going to follow you, too, as you
follow Christ.
S5 (05:22):
But what does grit have to do with faith?
S4 (05:26):
When my oldest daughter was about ten years old, she
was taking horseback riding lessons and her trainer took her
to a riding seminar. And on day one, she fell.
And it was it was pretty nasty. And the guy
running the seminar was so surprised to see her on
day two. He was like, I definitely did not think
you would be back. I thought you would have quit.
(05:47):
And he saw her and he's like, kid, you got grit.
He said to her, Good it is. I mean, the
definition of grit is courage and resolve, strength of character. And,
you know, you know, we talk all the time about
how we cannot earn our faith. There's nothing we can
do to win relationship with God. So I'm just kind
of curious. Dave, is there a place in our faith
(06:09):
for grit, and if so, what does that look like?
S3 (06:12):
Yeah. Thanks, Shauna. There's something about grit. So you read
from the dictionary definition. I grabbed a hold of a
book by Angela Duckworth, who's a researcher from University of Pennsylvania,
and she wrote the book called grit. So that social
science definition is what really captivated me. My heart started
(06:36):
racing when I understood, first of all, that she was
saying grit is singular, focused. And that immediately took me
to go, well, wait, that's like my faith in Jesus
is supposed to be. That's kind of what Paul talks
about in Philippians three, right? Like everything else I just
got rid of so that I could pursue Christ. No. Jesus.
(06:56):
That's it. Nothing else. And then you kind of go, well,
does that all fall in place? But that's when the
dictionary definition also kicks in. So once you are possessed
by this clear one goal, you do whatever it takes.
So you persevere. And then I like to I'm I'm
toying with the notion that you also innovate, for example
(07:19):
like I'm going, oh, this this habit isn't working quite well. Maybe,
maybe your morning devotional isn't isn't lifting your spirit. You
don't feel you feel like you're checking a box rather
than actually connecting to the Holy Spirit and listening. Well,
change it. Do whatever you have to do so that
you get connected to to Jesus. Add something. Throw a
(07:42):
little romance in the mix. You know, whatever happens in
that mix. But that's what gritty people do. So they
are clear minded about the goal, and then they change
everything to pursue that. And they and they do it with,
with persistence and endurance.
S2 (07:59):
You know what I hear you saying, Dave, is that
grit is something that we develop. And I think of
Paul's words, you know, he says, we rejoice in our
sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character
and character. Hope. I think I think there's grit in
the mix there that Paul's talking about. And so I
(08:21):
think we rob our kids if we don't let them
go through some hard things.
S3 (08:26):
Yeah. And it's it's counter instinctual for those of us
who are parents, isn't it? I mean, immediately, when you
see your kids in pain, you want to take away
that pain. And yet, you know, you would probably get
the questions right on a test that we understand that
pain is necessary for our formation. Well, that scripture is
(08:46):
really clear about that. I think misplaced grit, for example,
sort of sort of just one off grit. I mean,
Paul is a great example. He religiously was intense. He
had grit, but it was it was aimed at the
wrong thing. That's what he would confess in Philippians three.
S2 (09:06):
What's one thing in your life that was really hard
that you're thankful for because it created grit in your life?
S3 (09:14):
Oh, I had a relationship with my wife when I
was in college, but I felt like I was supposed
to for a season walk away from that relationship. Uh,
I still remember the train tracks at Huntington College, where
I argued and prayed with God about that and just
(09:34):
just doesn't make sense. I'm going to laying that relationship
at the altar. Persevering for nine months in, uh, kind
of a wonderment like, I don't know where this is going.
That was that was a key moment. I think my
first my first year after college, in fact, the first
month after I started full time, two young men from
(09:56):
the school that I was working with came to Christ
in a profound way like I'd never seen before. One
was a student body president, the other was student body
vice president. They were both co-captains of the football team.
One white, one black. But I still remember when Dave Stein,
on a Smoky Mountain backpacking trip, looked at me and said,
you mean what Jesus wants is everything? I said, yeah,
and he goes, okay. And that okay. Felt like it
(10:18):
had a heavenly reverberation. You know, one of those kind
of like he just decided something and he did. He
led his he led his friend in his tent to Christ.
That night he got home. He led Troy, who wasn't
on the trip to Christ that night. These guys and I,
we bonded, like intense for three weeks. And then a
(10:40):
tragic accident. Dave was electrocuted and killed. Troy was severely burned.
Bernd and I got that news, you know, five hours
away while I was being trained for rookie youth, for
Christ work. And I, I just I again, it started
in the authenticity of my own lament with Jesus like,
(11:00):
what are you God? I don't get this. I don't
get this. And all I could. And once I exhausted
myself in prayer, I felt like he said, uh, have
I ever let you down, Dave? No. Okay. You're going
to have to trust me here. And there wasn't an explanation.
(11:20):
There wasn't anything else. You're going to have to trust
me here. I anchor that as probably the most significant
formation moments of my ministry. Because for four years after that,
I saw young people at that school, Elmhurst, Fort Wayne, Indiana,
come to faith in Christ, in part because they had
(11:41):
connected to Dave Stein somewhere during his three weeks that
he walked with Jesus on the.
S4 (11:47):
Pow wow.
S3 (11:48):
And that just go, oh, that just it does. It
blows your mind. And and so I think I've got
some episodes like that. I imagine I'd like to take
you on a, you know, museum tour of my life
and stand in front of some of these displays and
let's talk about those. That's what testimonies are all about.
But they they build up and then you see God,
God doing it. And he's not done. By the way,
(12:10):
I'm 71. I kind of wish that I could just
be on cruise control and that there are no active
displays being formed in my museum now, but that's not
the way it is. That's not how it's going on.
S4 (12:21):
And here's the thing. Like we we want to have
the real Jesus. We want a real all in relationship
with Jesus. But man, do we want our kids to
have that too. We don't want to give them religion
and rules and good behavior and making us look good.
We want them to know God for who he truly is,
and for their lives to reflect who he is to
(12:42):
the world around them. Oh, man, that's our prayer.
S2 (12:52):
I have some regrets. I started following Jesus when I
was ten. The love of God was poured into my
heart at East Side Elementary School in Cheboygan, Michigan in
fifth grade when I was 16. I experienced waves and
waves of the Holy Spirit being poured into my life
in a living room in Saint Paul, Minnesota. But in
(13:14):
between those two experiences was failure after failure. I can't
ever remember saying no to a sexual temptation. It would
have been so awesome to be a robust follower of
Jesus in high school, to have represented Jesus better. But
that's not my story. And I'm at peace about that.
(13:36):
But David, is your story because you crashed into Grace
in high school. What happened to you in high school
first and then how can we see that happen in
the hearts of today's upcoming generation?
S3 (13:49):
Yeah, what happened to me in high school was I was, uh,
I entered a big high school in Peoria, Illinois, lost.
And I think of I think of that definition not
so much theologically as sociologically. I just wasn't connected, I
wasn't fit, and that was a first for me. Feels
like I was stumbled along. And so one of my
(14:09):
favorite words for meeting young people today, they're aimless. That's
who I was. Didn't have purpose, didn't have clarity, and
wondered what everybody was all about because I wasn't. I
hadn't figured it out. So hungry for a good friend.
A friend had invited me to spend the night at
his house. That's what I heard. But he also kind
(14:30):
of muttered something about a church activity. And that's where
I heard the gospel for the first time. Did not
know I wasn't a Christian. I did not know that
I could have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
That was. I just didn't know. So I wasn't out
there partying and and crazy. I was just clueless. That's
(14:51):
how I think of his lost. And then I rode
the coattails of that friendship for another six months. I mean,
all I, I remember sitting next to Brent in an
English class and just leaning over and whispering, is this
what is this what we believe? Do we believe? So
I don't really know. I don't have my own beliefs
until I figured out and started coming to church as
a junior and then Sunday school and then boom, it
(15:15):
just it was a retreat midway through my junior year,
I just go, this is about Jesus, all about Jesus,
all in about Jesus. And I just took off and
started practicing what the Bible said. I remember a moment
where I read John 1010 and stepped back from the
notion of an abundant life and said, I don't think
(15:36):
I have that. I just, I just said, I don't
know exactly what that is, but I don't think I've
got it yet. So either either it's there for me or.
Or God's a liar. So I think I gotta go
get it. I gotta, I gotta do something about this.
And I just started. I was surrounded with friends who
were ready to invent. And I think if there's a
(15:58):
pathway that I most favor for adolescents, I think it
is about like have friends who keep risking socially deeper
walk adventures with Jesus, with you. And and that will
include everything. But it might be anchored in some practices,
(16:19):
like just praying together if you want to test that. Like,
do you and your friends ever pray together when you're
not told to by a youth pastor or set up?
You know, just like all by yourselves?
S4 (16:30):
That is so great, such a good measure of man.
Are the people helping you to become more like Jesus?
Are you? Are you going to Jesus together, even when
nobody else is telling you to do that. My youngest
daughter is not a teenager anymore. She's 22, but she
just moved to Franklin and it's Nashville area. You know, Franklin, Tennessee,
and it's taken her a while. She moved there in
(16:51):
March and she's been trying to find her people. Well,
she just really found her tribe. She went to a
young adults group, and this group of girls has just
really enveloped her. And they've been hanging out outside of
church and doing things together and whatnot. And the other night,
one of the young people was sharing a hardship that
they were walking through. And my daughter said, well, can
(17:12):
we pray for you? And he said, yes, please do.
And she said, I mean, right now, can we pray
for you right now? And he said, yeah. And so
they all gathered and prayed. And when the prayer time
had kind of come to an end, the group of
friends had said, you know, it's just only been like
two weeks that they've known each other. And they said, Haven,
you've changed us. And she said, you've changed me. Wow,
(17:33):
that's what we want, right? That's what we long for,
that our kids find that.
S3 (17:37):
You're tapping into. Actually, one of my research pursuits right now, too,
and I've been doing it since Covid. Partly because of Covid,
but I have I have logged a number of different
experiences for weeks at a time, half hour a week
with two friends, me and two friends. And I say, just,
we're going to get on zoom. We're going to spend
(17:58):
half the time talking about Jesus together, and the other
half the time talking to Jesus about each other, and
that's it. And I will stop it, I promise. It's
30 minutes. And I was basically trying to figure out,
could such a thing, a small thing, change my relationship
with him? And absolutely. And we're all I mean, it's
just like, and I'm going, that's a small thing. That's
(18:20):
not even that's just a little injection. I mean, I've
had good friends. We talk about ministry and we know
we love Jesus. We just don't talk about Jesus. And
I'm going just let's get at Jesus. Kind of an
Emmaus Road insistence thing.
S4 (18:40):
Well, if we spend any length of time together, you're
probably going to hear me say something about life rhythms
or simple, repeatable patterns. Because our life is made up
of our habits. It's made up of the things that
we do. And so much of my relationship with Jesus
has been nurtured in having a regular practice of meeting
(19:01):
with him and being loved on by him, and and
being in his word. If that's true, if life is
made up of our habits and the things that we do,
can we teach young people to form habits that grow
their relationship with God?
S3 (19:15):
Yes and no. Habits that have to be a part
of the formula. I mean, because it results in what's
in our heart. And, you know, Jesus said, out of
the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. And our
habits are formed, our habits leak out. Who we are
shows up in the things that we do on a
regular basis. Having said that, I have a huge cautionary
(19:36):
tale after 50 years of being in in ministry. And
that is we race to habits without without understanding what
a loving relationship and intimacy even looks like. We don't
know and want Jesus. And so we actually have tried
to sort of put methods all around, everything in ministry.
(19:57):
And people are very impatient about everything in a love
dance with our creator of intimacy. And so we don't
know what deep looks like. We we work on surface level.
In fact, in our book we talked about snorkeling, splashing
on the surface with young people, those kind of things,
(20:19):
which I think characterizes a lot of youth ministry in
our country. And we urge folks, if we're going to go,
if we want kids to get to the deep stuff
where identity is formed and habits leak out of our identity,
then we've got to do some scuba diving and scuba diving.
It's a whole different mystery to that. And we who
(20:40):
love kids best, we don't know how to scuba ourselves.
We can't take them there.
S2 (20:45):
Dave. Ron with us. He's spent 30 years as a
professor at Huntington University, and he's co-author of grit and
Joy help for Bewildered Families of Teens. Dave, what I
hear you saying is that we're giving kids religion. We're
giving kids a to do list. And if they do
(21:05):
these things, then they'll be a good Christian. Instead of
giving them the gospel, instead of giving them the transformational
experience that Jesus Christ brings, because that comes first. Is
that what I hear you saying?
S3 (21:21):
Yeah, you're right on, Perry. I think that's. Yeah. And
and knowing what I know about those who are youth
ministers who are paid and, you know, they hear the
voices of people who are parents insisting on good girl,
good boy formulas all the time. That's what parents seem
(21:45):
to care most about. And so ministry is taking shape
that direction. And because it goes in that direction, it's
very short sighted. It's not long term. It doesn't reckon
with the realities of Scripture that we all know about suffering, persistence,
all that that's necessary. And what we want is we
(22:06):
want our kids to be good citizens. We want them
to have a good living. We want life to go
really well with them, and we want it right away.
We do. We want the wins. I don't see anything
in Scripture that makes that makes sense. And I'm looking
at the data of what we've done in youth ministry.
I'm not real pleased about that either.
S4 (22:25):
The thing is, God has made us for relationship with him.
I absolutely love what you said about it being a
slow dance with a creator of all things. Well, change
can be hard, but God is faithful. Just over a
week ago, my daughter graduated from Judson. It was the
end of an era. My baby graduated college, so all
(22:48):
my kids have now graduated from college. And the very
next day, my oldest, Brynn, flew back to the Czech Republic.
My son had moved out in February. Of course, you
know my daughter Eden and her husband Grant and baby
Selah live in Australia. Another baby on the way, and
our youngest moved to the Nashville area in March, so
we are officially empty nesters. Also, a new season, new
(23:13):
change and all of these things are good. I celebrate
the changes, but changes are change. They're different and sometimes
different takes some getting used to, even if it's a
good change. Another big change that we're celebrating here together
at Moody Radio is transitioning to a national format featuring
a single national morning show, and we'll be on air
(23:35):
through May 30th. Perry and I will. And then we'll
be handing you guys off to Karl and Cruz. Some
friends of ours. Karl, Ali, Jonathan, Diana. Y'all are going
to love them. We're really grateful for the opportunity that
we've had to to start our days with you, to
encourage you and bless you and hear from you and
(23:56):
just share this morning time together. It's been really, really
sweet just to remind you that you're loved. To tell
you that you matter has been just a real blessing
for us. I just we genuinely want you to know
how much we appreciate you.
S2 (24:09):
Yeah, and there's some sadness. Of course I feel some sadness.
I'm excited about what God has for me next. I
feel like he's given me my marching orders. But there's
some sadness. There's a joy that I have in doing
this radio show. And we're already hearing from some of
our friends. Jody says this news makes me so sad.
(24:32):
But I trust that God has good things in store
for you all. I will miss you. You've been a
part of my family conversation for the last four years.
I love all you guys. Well, right back at you
and Stephanie, one of our massive friends. Over the top
friends who's going to bring us coffee one more time
(24:53):
says this is shocking and sad. Can I bring coffee
sometime soon?
S4 (24:59):
Coffee. So sweet. John Lyons sad news. He's got a
lot of emojis on his received on this end. Sad
crying face. Going to miss you guys. Oh, here's the thing.
We're going to miss you guys too. It's just been
an honor. An honor to hang out with you in
the morning, Perry. It's been an honor to do the
show with you.
S2 (25:17):
Likewise.
S4 (25:17):
Thanks for teaching me everything about radio.
S2 (25:19):
Well, gosh. Shucks, not everything, but some.
S4 (25:24):
Pretty much everything. I knew nothing when I stumbled into
this studio. I'd never been on radio before. Never been
in a radio studio, you know.
S2 (25:32):
And here's the thing we have been doing. I feel
by the grace of God, you and I have been
doing our best work up right at this moment.
S6 (25:42):
Because it's a good way to go out. Yeah.
S2 (25:43):
Just continued to grow and grow and grow. So it's
kind of like, you know, when Michael Jordan retired.
S6 (25:48):
Oh my goodness. Okay. Now it's getting thick in here.
S4 (25:53):
Anyway this season has been a real blessing and you're
such a huge part of that. So thank you. Thanks
for listening. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for encouraging us
because it really has been reciprocal. It's gone both ways
and we're so grateful. And we know that God's going
to continue to speak to you through Carl and crew.
Y'all are really you are in really good hands. You're
(26:13):
going to be pushed and you're going to be challenged
to grow in your walk with Jesus. And that's exactly
what we want for you. So we feel really, really
good about handing you over to Carl and crew and changes. Well,
it's change.
S6 (26:27):
And.
S2 (26:27):
It's.
S6 (26:27):
Sad.
S4 (26:28):
And it's.
S6 (26:29):
Sad.
S2 (26:29):
Yeah. There's just some sadness.
S6 (26:31):
Yeah.
S4 (26:32):
That's real. We can be honest about that.
S6 (26:34):
Yep.
S4 (26:35):
But you can be sure that God's going to be
with us. He's not leaving Perry, and he's not leaving me.
And he's not leaving you. And he's faithful, and he's
he's just really good like that. So even in the
midst of all the change, God is the same yesterday,
today and forever. He's constant. He's faithful. So keep your
(26:56):
eyes on him.
S2 (27:03):
The journey with Jesus is not about climbing the ladder
of success. It's about going down to a cross. It
was three weeks ago tomorrow that Teresa and I descended
into a dark, gloomy, claustrophobic dungeon in Rome.
S4 (27:19):
You have to say that as often as you can.
When I was in Rome, right? All right, so you're
in a pit. Why are we in the pit?
S2 (27:25):
The Mamertine prison.
S4 (27:27):
Ah! Gotcha.
S2 (27:28):
This was the place that Rome reserved for its greatest criminals.
It's where these prisoners waited for their execution by the
unyielding justice of Rome. This is likely, very likely where
Paul spent his last days, before he was marched outside
of Rome and beheaded for Christ. This was the place.
(27:50):
As I stood in that dungeon, I realized this was
Paul's final message to the church. He had said earlier
in his life. Follow me as I follow Christ. And
that path had led him to this prison. And as
I stood there, it's as if Paul was saying to me, Perry,
follow me into this place. Don't keep trying to reach
(28:14):
for the sky, but instead share in Christ's sufferings. Become
like Jesus in his death. It was as if Paul
was saying to me, Perry, this is our glory.
S4 (28:26):
This is. This is incredible. The fact that you were
standing at a place. I mean, there's a lot of
times where you can go somewhere, say, on my trip
to Israel, there were a lot of times where, like, hmm,
maybe Jesus was here, you know, kind of thing. But
to know that Paul stood in this place and to. Yeah,
(28:47):
what is significant. I'm so glad that you had this moment.
S2 (28:50):
Yeah. You know, it's not 100%, but I've done some
research and it's it's really likely because this was the
place for the worst of the worst. And Paul was
considered a threat to the Roman peace. So it was Peter.
And so they both were in there, most likely waiting
(29:11):
for their execution. How could Paul say that a prison
cell waiting for execution is my glory? Is our glory.
It's because Paul had cast himself in with Jesus. Because
of that, he knew his own journey would lead to death.
But he knew death wasn't the end because he knew
(29:33):
Jesus had defeated death by dying. He knew a victory
was waiting for him in his death. And he knew
that because Jesus had risen, Jesus would resurrect him. Paul
could embrace that prison cell as a friend, because he
knew it was one final step away from the greatest
(29:53):
longing of his life to be with Jesus and to
one day share in Christ's resurrection. He really lived this message.
You know, I want to know Christ and the power
of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings,
becoming like him in his death. And so somehow to
attain to the resurrection of the dead.
S4 (30:13):
In Galatians 220 comes to mind. You know, I've been
crucified with Christ. I no longer live, but Christ now
lives in me. The life I live in the body
I live by faith in the Son of God, who
loved me and gave himself for me like he is
such an image. Paul is such an image of that
lived out.
S2 (30:29):
Yeah, he really lived it. It's remarkable. But he was
just a human being like you and me. And we
have the same Holy Spirit to be able to live
this kind of life out. I think of how many
times I've drifted into climbing the ladder of success, all
the times I've gotten distracted, making achievements and accomplishments and
(30:50):
reaching the top and getting the applause. The focus of
my life. And Paul says, from that prison cell, I've
been there and done that. I reached the top. It's empty.
Why settle for chasing the wind when you can experience
the joy of giving your life away? Because you know
(31:12):
God's going to give it back to you for eternity?
Does that make sense?
S4 (31:17):
It does. We just. We chase after things that we
think are going to bring the satisfaction that only self-sacrifice can.
You know what I mean? Giving it all away for Jesus.
Like leaving it all on the court for Jesus?
S2 (31:31):
Yeah. Because we can live like we have nothing to lose.
Because we have nothing to lose. Because if we lose
our lives, like Paul, you know, we get life. We
get resurrection. All the things that I hope in, in
this life will not raise me from the dead. Only
one person, only one hope will raise me from that grave.
(31:55):
That's the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul didn't settle for worldly hopes.
He didn't settle. Paul didn't settle, period. So he could
say from that prison cell, that dark, dank prison cell.
And in fact, there's there's a hole in the ceiling.
And they would drop the prisoners down through that hole.
(32:17):
All just drop them down in there and it's it's
just not very big. And I think there were some
baptisms that happened down in there as well with Paul
and Peter. But Paul didn't settle. So he could say
from that prison cell, I have fought the good fight,
(32:39):
I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Now there is in store for me the crown of
righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to
me on that day, and not only to me, but
also to all who have longed for his appearing.
S1 (32:57):
Thanks for letting Gary and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the podcast comes from
their live show Gary and Shawna Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio,
Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 800
968 8930. And please subscribe.
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