May 2, 2025 • 26 mins
At 11 years old George was taken from his family, trained as a child soldier, and forced to hurt his own people.
Edelin’s husband had an affair. She didn’t realize how deeply his betrayal affected every aspect of her life.
Joseph was in prison for selling meth - which was the result of a lifetime of hurt.
What do they have in common?
They’ve all experienced deep wounds of the heart and mind that left them feeling overwhelmed – trauma.
But there is hope. Rebecca Taguma, Executive Director of Trauma Healing Institute – a ministry equipping the church to help bring healing says the message of the Gospel, found in the living word of God, offers a transformational and lasting source of healing.
Also, you’re not too much for God. I don’t know why it’s so much easier for us to believe all of God’s promises for others than it is to believe them for ourselves. But I promise you, the circumstances that have you wondering if God can come through for you are not too much for Him.
Lastly, Shawna admits to struggling to identify what she’s feeling and feeling like she has to figure it out before bringing it to God. A story from the Bible shows us that Jesus can help us untangle our emotions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:03):
It's the Perry and Shaunna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:18):
There was a time in my childhood I grew up
in a cul de sac, and I wasn't allowed to
cross the street, so I had to walk all the
way around the cul de sac to get to Catherine's house.
My best friend and she pretty much lived, you know,
kind of diagonal across the street from me. So it
is a it is a long journey. But at four
years old, I was making that little journey and I
(00:39):
was on my way home, actually, and a neighbor kid
kind of at my farthest distance from home. He was
about 12 years old, and he's, um, I don't know
what was going on with this guy, but he took
a jug of gasoline and he as I was walking by,
he stopped me and he started to pour it on me.
(01:02):
And I said, what are you doing? And he goes,
I'm going to let you on fire and see what happens.
And I ran home as fast as I could run home.
I mean, this was absolutely terrifying. And when I grew,
as I grew up, when I hear the word trauma,
I think that applies to people who have, like, been
(01:24):
at war. I grew up in Los Angeles. My dad
was in the entertainment industry. I never would have connected
that circumstance with trauma, or even consider the fact that
I would need healing from that being a part of
my childhood. Rebecca, can you correct my understanding of trauma?
(01:45):
What is trauma and is it is it very, um,
is there just a handful of people that have experienced trauma?
Help me to understand a little bit better.
S3 (01:54):
Thanks, Ana. Yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions about trauma
because it sounds like something really bad that happens to
other people. But the statistics show that more than 70%
of the world has experienced trauma. This is because we
live in a world that is full of suffering and
(02:18):
sin and pain. That's the that's the experience of humans
and trauma. We think of trauma as being like a
big disaster or a car accident or a war or
something like that. But the thing is not trauma. It's
our experience of it that is trauma. It's how we
experience that, um, that thing, that bad thing that happens.
(02:42):
And it is a deep wound of the heart and
mind that impacts every area of our lives. So our heart,
our mind, our relationships with each other, with God, with
our community, our physical bodies. I mean, think about it.
Even when you're super stressed, what happens? Your heart rate
goes up. You know, you can even end up having
a heart attack because you are so under so much
(03:04):
stress and pressure. Our body is impacted by our heart
and mind. So when we experience a deep wound of
the heart and mind, it can really impact every area
of our life, even well into our adulthood, if it's
something that happened in childhood.
S2 (03:19):
The good news about it. Thank you for so clearly.
I mean, I just have a new understanding of that.
Thank you for that, Rebecca. But the good news is
that there isn't any healing, any trauma that God can't heal.
We're talking with Rebecca Takuma this morning. She's the executive
director of Trauma Healing Institute. And what they do is
they equip the church to be able to help people
to heal from trauma, from grief and from loss. So, Rebecca,
(03:44):
tell me. Tell me a story. Tell me George's story.
S3 (03:49):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is, I think, what we often
think about when we think of trauma. Um, George was
a boy, um, in Uganda. And he was, um, as
an 11 year old boy, he was out working, uh,
in his family's field. He was just doing his normal thing.
And at age 11, he was, um, kidnapped by a
(04:11):
Somalian terrorist group. And he was taken to be a
child soldier. Uh, he was brainwashed. He was, uh, he
was put in jail during a terrorist attack. Um, and
then he he was, um, he was finally, ultimately invited
to a healing group. But you can imagine for a
child the experience of being part of a loving family
(04:34):
and then suddenly being taken by terrorists, kidnapped, being exposed
to all sorts of violence, and then being asked to
hurt his own people, become a terrorist against his own people.
You can imagine the deep wounds that he must have
experienced in his heart and mind, how overwhelmed he must
have felt. Um, how Stuck. He must have felt well
(04:57):
when he was captured. He was kind of rehabilitated, essentially.
And the Bible Society in Uganda invited George to attend
a trauma healing group, a workshop, and in it he
learned about all the things that you learn about in
a in a healing group, about what is a wound
of the heart, how do we heal? But the most
(05:18):
powerful lesson for him was about forgiveness, because without forgiving
those who harm us, we carry that burden with us
wherever we go. And when he was able to forgive
the people who made him a child soldier who kidnapped him,
who forced him into this violence, it it changed his
(05:39):
whole life. It broke down his walls. Um, and now
he's a follower of Jesus. And he actually is. He
works in ministry. He does Bible translation. Now, God has
changed him so much from being from that experience that
now he can help others.
S2 (05:58):
And I think oftentimes, Rebecca, we think about trauma and
we picture prisoners of war or like really large events.
But if it has to do with how my heart
experiences something, it can be, it can still have big impact,
even if it wasn't such a big event.
S3 (06:18):
Yeah. Yeah, it really can. And I think about, um,
a woman that I talked to recently at a church.
I'm in Pennsylvania, and she is also at a church
in Pennsylvania. And we were chatting about her experience with
the Trauma Healing program, and she had gotten involved because
she wanted to help other people. But when she went
through one of our small group curriculum with her local
(06:42):
Sunday school teacher pastor, um, she realized that the deep
betrayal that she had experienced with her husband was a trauma. Um,
because it left her feeling overwhelmed. It affected every part
of her life, her all of her other relationships, her
relationship with God, her understanding of herself. It left her
(07:03):
feeling overwhelmed, stuck, unable to move. She was, um. She couldn't.
She didn't know what to do. Right. She didn't understand
that as trauma. And she also didn't realize how deeply
it had impacted her, um, and every aspect of her life.
It wasn't just between her and her husband. Um, but
when she participated in the group, she was able to
(07:25):
forgive her husband. Um, she was able to reconnect with God,
and she experienced restoration in her heart. And she began
reading the Scripture in new ways. She found that God
had was with her in her pain, but God was
also with her in her recovery. I think we tend
to think of God as pulling us, Jesus pulling us
(07:46):
out of our pain, helping us to escape from our pain.
But we serve a suffering savior. I mean, we just
came out of Easter, but Good Friday comes before Easter,
and our God knows what it means to be with
us in our pain. No matter how small or how large,
no matter how sort of wild the trauma that we
(08:07):
experienced or, uh, basic in terms of relationships. Right? God's
with us in that pain regardless. And he knows, um,
and it happens in our churches. It just doesn't happen
over there with those people in that war zone or
in that car accident. No. Trauma is something that's happening
in your neighbor's house and maybe even in your own life.
(08:29):
And God can be with you in that. And he
can also bring healing in your life to redeem and
restore you and the relationships that you have.
S2 (08:44):
Rebecca, can Scripture help us to heal from the trauma
that we've experienced in our own lives?
S3 (08:49):
Absolutely. The Word of God is alive and active. Right.
We know that that's true. It can divide bone from marrow,
and it can also speak to our heart. Um, I
think about, um, um, I think about all the scriptural
stories where trauma just really, you know, you can read
(09:10):
the Bible through the lens of trauma and realize, oh,
that's what's happening here. But I think about, uh, an
inmate named Joe Hamilton, Joseph Hamilton, uh, he participated in, uh,
a trauma healing class led by a trauma healing group.
Excuse me? LED by a chaplain at his jail. He's
(09:31):
serving a long sentence. He, uh, for distributing meth. He
experienced quite a lot of abuse and trauma growing up himself,
which is typical of inmates. Male inmates, um, have experienced
a 97% of male inmates have experienced complex trauma before
they get to prison. Right? Um, and so his life
was steeped in horrible abuse and difficult things. So he
(09:54):
gets to prison and loses his kids, loses contact in
custody with his kids. Um, and he's invited to this
group by the chaplain, this small group Bible study kind
of a thing using our curriculum. And as he goes
through the group, he he's his takeaway was, whoa. This
Bible is full of stories of people like me. The
(10:16):
whole Bible is full of stories of people who've experienced
really bad things. You know, in Scripture, Jesus says you
will have trials and tribulations. You will. I give you
my peace. I'm leaving you my peace. But the reason
you need my peace is because this world is full
of hard, bad stuff. Um, and when you're someone who's
(10:37):
experienced hard, bad stuff, when you read the Bible and
you look at the story of Joseph, you look at
the story of Hagar, you look at Jesus, you look
at the disciples and their life after the resurrection and
the ascension, and the life they had to leave, trying
to lead, trying to navigate in a hostile world. And
(10:58):
you've experienced hard things. You're like, oh, I get it.
I see those people the way that God works in
those people's life. He can work in mine. He can
do it. And he brings us peace through that.
S2 (11:10):
That's what Scripture is all about, is reading the Bible
and understanding the character of God. I see myself in Scripture,
which is helpful because then I can see the character
of God and how God feels about me, and how
God can bring about healing in my own life. We're
talking with Rebecca Taguma. She's the executive director of Trauma
Healing Institute, and what they do is they equip the
(11:31):
church to help people heal from trauma, grief, and loss.
Providing resources, equipping the church to be able to help
with the healing that is so desperately needed. The healing
that God desires for you and me. Rebecca, can you
tell me a little bit more about what that looks like?
The equipping of the church. You know, what does it
look like if I go to a church or I'm
(11:53):
at a church that is interested in acquiring these resources?
S3 (11:58):
Yeah, absolutely. We have two kinds of resources that we
give to churches. Um, this is not a count. I
want to say upfront. This is not a counseling program.
This is not a therapy program. Um, what we offer
is easily accessible, contextualized resources for churches that they can
use with people who are experiencing deep pain, trauma, but
(12:20):
also grief and loss. So we have two kinds of things.
We have, um, videos. We have, uh, little resources, easy
to use things like a little booklet on lament, looks
at the Psalms, look at looks at how David laments
and teaches us how we can do the same. This
is a great this is a great little tip or
skill when you're experiencing a hard thing. This is a
(12:40):
it's great to have this little format that helps me
pour out my pain to God. Now, the interesting thing
is that this has therapeutic outcomes, real mental health outcomes.
When we tell our story, when we share our pain,
we feel relieved. We feel better emotionally, right? Because God
made us as whole people. Um, so things like this,
things with scripture, uh, things with, um, just helpful tips,
(13:04):
that kind of thing. But our most. Oh. Go ahead.
S2 (13:06):
No, no, please carry on.
S3 (13:07):
Most powerful program is our small group curriculum. And this
has been around for more than 20 years. Uh, is
used in 117 countries, but also in the United States. Um,
and you can access it a couple of ways. I
think the link that you guys have on your website
is the best way to access it, whether you want
to learn to lead groups and help other people, or
you want to experience a group yourself, that website that
(13:30):
they'll send you to will help you choose that path. Um,
and there are a couple of ways to use our curriculum.
We have different formats, audio program that you can use
straight from your phone in a small group. We have
an app, um, or a more traditional one, using a
book where you go and you get trained over a
couple of days to lead people through these small group experiences.
(13:50):
And all of this is listed on our website and
our events page.
S2 (13:58):
We're talking today with Rebecca Taguma. She's the executive director
of Trauma Healing Institute. And what they do is they
provide the resources for the church to be able to
enter in and help people heal from trauma and grief
and loss. And that's actually how you discovered Trauma Healing Institute, right, Rebecca?
S4 (14:18):
Yeah. That's right. Shawna.
S3 (14:20):
I was actually ten years ago. Nine years ago, something
like that. I, um, was in Zimbabwe. It was a missionary.
I was working with some girls who had experienced some
very hard things. And, um, a pastor friend of mine
recommended this Bible study that I could use called Healing
the Wounds of the heart. And, um, I couldn't find it.
I couldn't find it online. I couldn't get a book anywhere.
(14:41):
And I was like, oh, well, um, so fast forward
two countries Later, and my husband and I come back
to the States. We're doing graduate school, and I discovered
that the Trauma Healing Institute is at American Bible Society
just down the road. And they were hosting a, um,
training for people who wanted to help others to lead
(15:02):
small groups using the curriculum, healing the wounds of the heart.
So I, um, I went to the training and I thought, oh,
this will be great. I can use this when we
go back overseas. But that feeling of wanting to help
and being confronted with someone's story and not knowing what
to do with it, I think that is that's certainly
(15:23):
something I've experienced many times in my life. Um, when
a neighbor, a friend, a person sitting next to me
on the airplane tells me their story and I have frozen,
being unsure of how do I let this person know
that God loves them and is with them in their pain? Um,
and I'm be present for them. How do I help them? Um,
and so one of the things I love about what
(15:44):
we do is that we provide really easy to use resources,
whether it's our small group program or whether it's just
a guide on how to be a safe listener. Um,
these are the things that make it a lot easier
to navigate as a person of faith. Um, who wants
to be present for people who are hurting?
S2 (16:03):
There isn't anything that our God cannot do. Not a thing.
And sometimes when I feel overwhelmed, I wonder if my
circumstances are too much for God. I hate to admit that.
And it's easy for me to believe it for you. Like,
I can see how God could intervene in your life
and how he could radically change your circumstances. But sometimes
(16:25):
I struggle to believe that he can do that for me.
I was reading in numbers 11 and the Israelites are there,
so they're hungry for meat and they're complaining to God
about it. And, you know, Moses is looking at the circumstances.
And he's you know, God says that he'll provide meat.
(16:46):
And Moses is like, this is what he says. Here
I am among 600,000 men on foot. And you say,
I will give them meat to eat for a whole month.
Would they have enough flocks and herds? If everything got slaughtered?
Would they have enough? Would they have enough if all
the fish in the sea were caught for them? I
think Moses is feeling overwhelmed. He's saying, hey Lord, I'm
(17:09):
looking at my circumstances. There are a lot of people
here to feed. How in the world are you going
to feed them? He just can't see how God's going
to provide for his great need in that moment. Man,
I have been here myself. And the interesting thing about
Moses in this situation is he's already he's seen God
(17:32):
move in powerful ways. He's seen God change Pharaoh's heart.
He's seen God send plagues upon Egypt. He's seen God
part the Red sea. See. He's seen God make bread
come down from heaven in the middle of the night.
So they wake up and there's just these bread flakes
on the ground. He's already experienced all of these miracles firsthand,
(17:54):
and he still wonders if this situation that he's facing
down is bigger than God.
S5 (18:02):
Come on.
S2 (18:03):
I know, but I come on to, like I get
it where you're coming from, from that. But at the
same time in my life, I do this too. I
tell you what I have, I experienced, um, I was
a freshman in high school. I was getting ready for school,
and I had just put hand lotion on, and I
was curling my hair, and the curling iron slipped out
(18:24):
of my hands because of the hand lotion and popped
me right in my left eye. The the rod of
the curling iron burnt the pupil of my eye.
S5 (18:33):
Ooh.
S2 (18:34):
Now you have to know this is an important part
of the story. I'm legally blind in my right eye.
My right eye is just no good. So my left
eye is all I've got to work with. And my
left eye gets this burn. It blisters over. Oh, it
was really bad. Oh, it was a Friday morning. Went
to er. Um, you know, they kind of they put
some ointment in there. They patched it all up. Said
(18:56):
you just need to rest over the weekend. Try not
to open up your eyes and try not to blink.
You don't want to aggravate that blister in any way.
Come back on Monday morning and we'll take a look
at it. I showed up on Monday morning after just
praying all weekend and laying with my eyes shut for
three full days. Four days. On Monday I went back
to the ER and they took the patch off of
(19:17):
my eye. The doctor comes in, he does an exam,
he leaves, he gets another doctor, his colleague. They both
look at my eye together and they're like, we don't
have any explanation, but your eye is healed. And when
I say your eye is healed, I don't mean it
got better. I mean, there's no scar tissue. There's nothing.
There's no indication that a burn has happened.
S5 (19:39):
Praise the Lord.
S2 (19:40):
To your eye. eyes. So I've experienced healing. Miraculous. And
that's just one story. I could tell you more, but
I still I still, when I'm faced with a situation
and I don't know how it's going to shake down,
I still sometimes feel like God is this one. Is
this one too much? Is this one too big for you?
(20:04):
Maybe that's how you're feeling right now. Just overwhelmed with
your diagnosis, overwhelmed with your crisis or your relationship or
your financial need. And you're just wondering, is this one
too big for God? Take a minute today, will you?
And remember the ways that God has showed up in
your life and done what you thought was impossible? Because
(20:28):
he has. I know you have these stories to tell.
They're a part of your story. It's how God has
worked in your life. And if you can't think of
one from your own life, read scripture story after story
after story of how God showed up. God did bring me.
He fed all of those thousands and thousands of people
that Moses thought he never could. Is the Lord's arm
(20:50):
too short? It's not. That was God's response to Moses.
Is the Lord's arm too short? It wasn't for Moses.
It isn't for you. So take a moment. Reflect on
what God has done, and just believe in faith. For
me today. God is the God who heals all kinds
of diseases. He mends broken hearts. He provides daily bread.
(21:11):
He makes a way where there seems to be no way.
He parts waters. He calms seas. He raises the dead.
He saves sinners like you and me. And he gives
us a holy purpose. Oh my goodness, my friend. You're
not too much for God. The Lord's arm is not
too short. He had you then. He's got you now.
S6 (21:35):
Jesus is really good at helping you sort out your emotions.
S2 (21:39):
I don't know about you, but sometimes I struggle to
figure myself out, and I feel like I have to
know what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking before I show
up with God. And what I mean by that is. Yeah.
Perry and I, we joke around sometimes it's like, do
I need to bring any, any emotions wheel so that
you can point out what you're feeling. And I'm like,
you know what? Honestly, that would be super helpful. But
(22:01):
when it comes to just getting one on one with Jesus,
because I have this idea that I have to have
that figured out before I meet with him, sometimes I
find myself kind of pushing back my time with him,
because I feel like I have to figure myself out
before I meet with him one on one. It's like
all of my emotions are this jumbled up tangle of knots,
(22:24):
and I just really don't know what I'm feeling. I
was reading through Matthew 28 the other day, and the
context is, you know, right after Jesus was crucified, there's
this earthquake. The angel comes down from heaven, goes over
to the tomb, rolls back the stone and sits on it.
And the guards pass out and Mary and Mary show
(22:45):
up at the at the tomb, and the angel tells
them to go tell the disciples that Jesus is not there.
So verse eight, this is where we're picking up in
the story. The women hurried away from the tomb, afraid
yet filled with joy, and they ran to tell the disciples.
And there's so much I mean, it's just one sentence,
(23:05):
but there's so much in here. What jumped out at
me as I was reading it was the fact that
they were both afraid and filled with joy. I'm like,
hold up a minute. Those are very different emotions, afraid
and joyful. But our emotions can be really complicated. We
can feel more than one thing at one time. I
can be scared and I can be excited. I'm actually
(23:29):
experiencing this right now in my own life because my
oldest daughter has been stateside. She lives in the Czech Republic,
but she's been stateside now for six months staying with us,
and I'm. She's leaving next week, Sunday on Mother's Day.
I have to drive her to the airport.
S5 (23:43):
I know who planned that.
S2 (23:45):
I know it's terrible. I have to bring both Bryn
and my youngest daughter, Haven to the airport. We'll be
in Chicago for Haven's graduation from college, but then Haven
will fly back to Nashville, Tennessee, and Bryn will fly
on to the Czech Republic. So I'll bring them both
to the airport, drop them off, and drive three hours
home by myself on Mother's Day. It's going to be
(24:08):
a weepy long ride, let me just tell you that.
But in these days where I'm I'm kind of realizing
we're in the last week, this is our last week together.
And I'm sad because I'm going to miss my girl
so much. I'm going to miss grocery shopping with her.
I'm gonna miss watching our show together. I'm just I'm
(24:30):
going to miss bumping into her in the kitchen because
we're both cooking and we're tripping over each other. And
I'm just going to miss all of that. I'm going
to miss hugging her and wrapping my arms around her
so much. But I'm also super excited for her because
she's going home and God has good things for her.
He's doing incredible things through her life in the Czech Republic,
and that is exactly where she's supposed to be. So
(24:51):
I'm excited and sad at the same time. And the
good news is we can run to Jesus with our emotions.
We can be we can have this tangled up knot
stuff and bring it right to him. We don't have
to have it figured out before we go to him. When,
you know, when when Mary and Mary ran into Jesus
(25:14):
in the garden, um, he told them not to be afraid.
And it wasn't because he was scolding them. He wasn't
admonishing them for being afraid, but he did kind of
help them to figure out with their emotions that they
don't need to be afraid because he's here. He's he's
(25:34):
with us. There's nothing to be afraid of. So he
kind of helps them to sort out their feelings. And that,
to me, felt like an invitation. I felt like God himself,
as I was reading through the story, was saying, Shauna,
just bring your stuff to me and you don't have
to have it all figured out. And I'll I'll help
you to sort it through. We can untangle the knots together.
(25:55):
So if you're feeling a jumble of emotions and. Oh,
for the love, if that keeps you from going to
God and meeting with him one on one, you don't
have to keep that from him. And you don't have
to have it all figured out. Just run to him
and he'll help you sort it out.
S1 (26:12):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shauna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the Period Shauna podcast
comes from their live show Barry and Shauna Mornings on
89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us
by texting 809 68 8930 and please subscribe.
It's the Perry and Shaunna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:18):
There was a time in my childhood I grew up
in a cul de sac, and I wasn't allowed to
cross the street, so I had to walk all the
way around the cul de sac to get to Catherine's house.
My best friend and she pretty much lived, you know,
kind of diagonal across the street from me. So it
is a it is a long journey. But at four
years old, I was making that little journey and I
(00:39):
was on my way home, actually, and a neighbor kid
kind of at my farthest distance from home. He was
about 12 years old, and he's, um, I don't know
what was going on with this guy, but he took
a jug of gasoline and he as I was walking by,
he stopped me and he started to pour it on me.
(01:02):
And I said, what are you doing? And he goes,
I'm going to let you on fire and see what happens.
And I ran home as fast as I could run home.
I mean, this was absolutely terrifying. And when I grew,
as I grew up, when I hear the word trauma,
I think that applies to people who have, like, been
(01:24):
at war. I grew up in Los Angeles. My dad
was in the entertainment industry. I never would have connected
that circumstance with trauma, or even consider the fact that
I would need healing from that being a part of
my childhood. Rebecca, can you correct my understanding of trauma?
(01:45):
What is trauma and is it is it very, um,
is there just a handful of people that have experienced trauma?
Help me to understand a little bit better.
S3 (01:54):
Thanks, Ana. Yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions about trauma
because it sounds like something really bad that happens to
other people. But the statistics show that more than 70%
of the world has experienced trauma. This is because we
live in a world that is full of suffering and
(02:18):
sin and pain. That's the that's the experience of humans
and trauma. We think of trauma as being like a
big disaster or a car accident or a war or
something like that. But the thing is not trauma. It's
our experience of it that is trauma. It's how we
experience that, um, that thing, that bad thing that happens.
(02:42):
And it is a deep wound of the heart and
mind that impacts every area of our lives. So our heart,
our mind, our relationships with each other, with God, with
our community, our physical bodies. I mean, think about it.
Even when you're super stressed, what happens? Your heart rate
goes up. You know, you can even end up having
a heart attack because you are so under so much
(03:04):
stress and pressure. Our body is impacted by our heart
and mind. So when we experience a deep wound of
the heart and mind, it can really impact every area
of our life, even well into our adulthood, if it's
something that happened in childhood.
S2 (03:19):
The good news about it. Thank you for so clearly.
I mean, I just have a new understanding of that.
Thank you for that, Rebecca. But the good news is
that there isn't any healing, any trauma that God can't heal.
We're talking with Rebecca Takuma this morning. She's the executive
director of Trauma Healing Institute. And what they do is
they equip the church to be able to help people
to heal from trauma, from grief and from loss. So, Rebecca,
(03:44):
tell me. Tell me a story. Tell me George's story.
S3 (03:49):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is, I think, what we often
think about when we think of trauma. Um, George was
a boy, um, in Uganda. And he was, um, as
an 11 year old boy, he was out working, uh,
in his family's field. He was just doing his normal thing.
And at age 11, he was, um, kidnapped by a
(04:11):
Somalian terrorist group. And he was taken to be a
child soldier. Uh, he was brainwashed. He was, uh, he
was put in jail during a terrorist attack. Um, and
then he he was, um, he was finally, ultimately invited
to a healing group. But you can imagine for a
child the experience of being part of a loving family
(04:34):
and then suddenly being taken by terrorists, kidnapped, being exposed
to all sorts of violence, and then being asked to
hurt his own people, become a terrorist against his own people.
You can imagine the deep wounds that he must have
experienced in his heart and mind, how overwhelmed he must
have felt. Um, how Stuck. He must have felt well
(04:57):
when he was captured. He was kind of rehabilitated, essentially.
And the Bible Society in Uganda invited George to attend
a trauma healing group, a workshop, and in it he
learned about all the things that you learn about in
a in a healing group, about what is a wound
of the heart, how do we heal? But the most
(05:18):
powerful lesson for him was about forgiveness, because without forgiving
those who harm us, we carry that burden with us
wherever we go. And when he was able to forgive
the people who made him a child soldier who kidnapped him,
who forced him into this violence, it it changed his
(05:39):
whole life. It broke down his walls. Um, and now
he's a follower of Jesus. And he actually is. He
works in ministry. He does Bible translation. Now, God has
changed him so much from being from that experience that
now he can help others.
S2 (05:58):
And I think oftentimes, Rebecca, we think about trauma and
we picture prisoners of war or like really large events.
But if it has to do with how my heart
experiences something, it can be, it can still have big impact,
even if it wasn't such a big event.
S3 (06:18):
Yeah. Yeah, it really can. And I think about, um,
a woman that I talked to recently at a church.
I'm in Pennsylvania, and she is also at a church
in Pennsylvania. And we were chatting about her experience with
the Trauma Healing program, and she had gotten involved because
she wanted to help other people. But when she went
through one of our small group curriculum with her local
(06:42):
Sunday school teacher pastor, um, she realized that the deep
betrayal that she had experienced with her husband was a trauma. Um,
because it left her feeling overwhelmed. It affected every part
of her life, her all of her other relationships, her
relationship with God, her understanding of herself. It left her
(07:03):
feeling overwhelmed, stuck, unable to move. She was, um. She couldn't.
She didn't know what to do. Right. She didn't understand
that as trauma. And she also didn't realize how deeply
it had impacted her, um, and every aspect of her life.
It wasn't just between her and her husband. Um, but
when she participated in the group, she was able to
(07:25):
forgive her husband. Um, she was able to reconnect with God,
and she experienced restoration in her heart. And she began
reading the Scripture in new ways. She found that God
had was with her in her pain, but God was
also with her in her recovery. I think we tend
to think of God as pulling us, Jesus pulling us
(07:46):
out of our pain, helping us to escape from our pain.
But we serve a suffering savior. I mean, we just
came out of Easter, but Good Friday comes before Easter,
and our God knows what it means to be with
us in our pain. No matter how small or how large,
no matter how sort of wild the trauma that we
(08:07):
experienced or, uh, basic in terms of relationships. Right? God's
with us in that pain regardless. And he knows, um,
and it happens in our churches. It just doesn't happen
over there with those people in that war zone or
in that car accident. No. Trauma is something that's happening
in your neighbor's house and maybe even in your own life.
(08:29):
And God can be with you in that. And he
can also bring healing in your life to redeem and
restore you and the relationships that you have.
S2 (08:44):
Rebecca, can Scripture help us to heal from the trauma
that we've experienced in our own lives?
S3 (08:49):
Absolutely. The Word of God is alive and active. Right.
We know that that's true. It can divide bone from marrow,
and it can also speak to our heart. Um, I
think about, um, um, I think about all the scriptural
stories where trauma just really, you know, you can read
(09:10):
the Bible through the lens of trauma and realize, oh,
that's what's happening here. But I think about, uh, an
inmate named Joe Hamilton, Joseph Hamilton, uh, he participated in, uh,
a trauma healing class led by a trauma healing group.
Excuse me? LED by a chaplain at his jail. He's
(09:31):
serving a long sentence. He, uh, for distributing meth. He
experienced quite a lot of abuse and trauma growing up himself,
which is typical of inmates. Male inmates, um, have experienced
a 97% of male inmates have experienced complex trauma before
they get to prison. Right? Um, and so his life
was steeped in horrible abuse and difficult things. So he
(09:54):
gets to prison and loses his kids, loses contact in
custody with his kids. Um, and he's invited to this
group by the chaplain, this small group Bible study kind
of a thing using our curriculum. And as he goes
through the group, he he's his takeaway was, whoa. This
Bible is full of stories of people like me. The
(10:16):
whole Bible is full of stories of people who've experienced
really bad things. You know, in Scripture, Jesus says you
will have trials and tribulations. You will. I give you
my peace. I'm leaving you my peace. But the reason
you need my peace is because this world is full
of hard, bad stuff. Um, and when you're someone who's
(10:37):
experienced hard, bad stuff, when you read the Bible and
you look at the story of Joseph, you look at
the story of Hagar, you look at Jesus, you look
at the disciples and their life after the resurrection and
the ascension, and the life they had to leave, trying
to lead, trying to navigate in a hostile world. And
(10:58):
you've experienced hard things. You're like, oh, I get it.
I see those people the way that God works in
those people's life. He can work in mine. He can
do it. And he brings us peace through that.
S2 (11:10):
That's what Scripture is all about, is reading the Bible
and understanding the character of God. I see myself in Scripture,
which is helpful because then I can see the character
of God and how God feels about me, and how
God can bring about healing in my own life. We're
talking with Rebecca Taguma. She's the executive director of Trauma
Healing Institute, and what they do is they equip the
(11:31):
church to help people heal from trauma, grief, and loss.
Providing resources, equipping the church to be able to help
with the healing that is so desperately needed. The healing
that God desires for you and me. Rebecca, can you
tell me a little bit more about what that looks like?
The equipping of the church. You know, what does it
look like if I go to a church or I'm
(11:53):
at a church that is interested in acquiring these resources?
S3 (11:58):
Yeah, absolutely. We have two kinds of resources that we
give to churches. Um, this is not a count. I
want to say upfront. This is not a counseling program.
This is not a therapy program. Um, what we offer
is easily accessible, contextualized resources for churches that they can
use with people who are experiencing deep pain, trauma, but
(12:20):
also grief and loss. So we have two kinds of things.
We have, um, videos. We have, uh, little resources, easy
to use things like a little booklet on lament, looks
at the Psalms, look at looks at how David laments
and teaches us how we can do the same. This
is a great this is a great little tip or
skill when you're experiencing a hard thing. This is a
(12:40):
it's great to have this little format that helps me
pour out my pain to God. Now, the interesting thing
is that this has therapeutic outcomes, real mental health outcomes.
When we tell our story, when we share our pain,
we feel relieved. We feel better emotionally, right? Because God
made us as whole people. Um, so things like this,
things with scripture, uh, things with, um, just helpful tips,
(13:04):
that kind of thing. But our most. Oh. Go ahead.
S2 (13:06):
No, no, please carry on.
S3 (13:07):
Most powerful program is our small group curriculum. And this
has been around for more than 20 years. Uh, is
used in 117 countries, but also in the United States. Um,
and you can access it a couple of ways. I
think the link that you guys have on your website
is the best way to access it, whether you want
to learn to lead groups and help other people, or
you want to experience a group yourself, that website that
(13:30):
they'll send you to will help you choose that path. Um,
and there are a couple of ways to use our curriculum.
We have different formats, audio program that you can use
straight from your phone in a small group. We have
an app, um, or a more traditional one, using a
book where you go and you get trained over a
couple of days to lead people through these small group experiences.
(13:50):
And all of this is listed on our website and
our events page.
S2 (13:58):
We're talking today with Rebecca Taguma. She's the executive director
of Trauma Healing Institute. And what they do is they
provide the resources for the church to be able to
enter in and help people heal from trauma and grief
and loss. And that's actually how you discovered Trauma Healing Institute, right, Rebecca?
S4 (14:18):
Yeah. That's right. Shawna.
S3 (14:20):
I was actually ten years ago. Nine years ago, something
like that. I, um, was in Zimbabwe. It was a missionary.
I was working with some girls who had experienced some
very hard things. And, um, a pastor friend of mine
recommended this Bible study that I could use called Healing
the Wounds of the heart. And, um, I couldn't find it.
I couldn't find it online. I couldn't get a book anywhere.
(14:41):
And I was like, oh, well, um, so fast forward
two countries Later, and my husband and I come back
to the States. We're doing graduate school, and I discovered
that the Trauma Healing Institute is at American Bible Society
just down the road. And they were hosting a, um,
training for people who wanted to help others to lead
(15:02):
small groups using the curriculum, healing the wounds of the heart.
So I, um, I went to the training and I thought, oh,
this will be great. I can use this when we
go back overseas. But that feeling of wanting to help
and being confronted with someone's story and not knowing what
to do with it, I think that is that's certainly
(15:23):
something I've experienced many times in my life. Um, when
a neighbor, a friend, a person sitting next to me
on the airplane tells me their story and I have frozen,
being unsure of how do I let this person know
that God loves them and is with them in their pain? Um,
and I'm be present for them. How do I help them? Um,
and so one of the things I love about what
(15:44):
we do is that we provide really easy to use resources,
whether it's our small group program or whether it's just
a guide on how to be a safe listener. Um,
these are the things that make it a lot easier
to navigate as a person of faith. Um, who wants
to be present for people who are hurting?
S2 (16:03):
There isn't anything that our God cannot do. Not a thing.
And sometimes when I feel overwhelmed, I wonder if my
circumstances are too much for God. I hate to admit that.
And it's easy for me to believe it for you. Like,
I can see how God could intervene in your life
and how he could radically change your circumstances. But sometimes
(16:25):
I struggle to believe that he can do that for me.
I was reading in numbers 11 and the Israelites are there,
so they're hungry for meat and they're complaining to God
about it. And, you know, Moses is looking at the circumstances.
And he's you know, God says that he'll provide meat.
(16:46):
And Moses is like, this is what he says. Here
I am among 600,000 men on foot. And you say,
I will give them meat to eat for a whole month.
Would they have enough flocks and herds? If everything got slaughtered?
Would they have enough? Would they have enough if all
the fish in the sea were caught for them? I
think Moses is feeling overwhelmed. He's saying, hey Lord, I'm
(17:09):
looking at my circumstances. There are a lot of people
here to feed. How in the world are you going
to feed them? He just can't see how God's going
to provide for his great need in that moment. Man,
I have been here myself. And the interesting thing about
Moses in this situation is he's already he's seen God
(17:32):
move in powerful ways. He's seen God change Pharaoh's heart.
He's seen God send plagues upon Egypt. He's seen God
part the Red sea. See. He's seen God make bread
come down from heaven in the middle of the night.
So they wake up and there's just these bread flakes
on the ground. He's already experienced all of these miracles firsthand,
(17:54):
and he still wonders if this situation that he's facing
down is bigger than God.
S5 (18:02):
Come on.
S2 (18:03):
I know, but I come on to, like I get
it where you're coming from, from that. But at the
same time in my life, I do this too. I
tell you what I have, I experienced, um, I was
a freshman in high school. I was getting ready for school,
and I had just put hand lotion on, and I
was curling my hair, and the curling iron slipped out
(18:24):
of my hands because of the hand lotion and popped
me right in my left eye. The the rod of
the curling iron burnt the pupil of my eye.
S5 (18:33):
Ooh.
S2 (18:34):
Now you have to know this is an important part
of the story. I'm legally blind in my right eye.
My right eye is just no good. So my left
eye is all I've got to work with. And my
left eye gets this burn. It blisters over. Oh, it
was really bad. Oh, it was a Friday morning. Went
to er. Um, you know, they kind of they put
some ointment in there. They patched it all up. Said
(18:56):
you just need to rest over the weekend. Try not
to open up your eyes and try not to blink.
You don't want to aggravate that blister in any way.
Come back on Monday morning and we'll take a look
at it. I showed up on Monday morning after just
praying all weekend and laying with my eyes shut for
three full days. Four days. On Monday I went back
to the ER and they took the patch off of
(19:17):
my eye. The doctor comes in, he does an exam,
he leaves, he gets another doctor, his colleague. They both
look at my eye together and they're like, we don't
have any explanation, but your eye is healed. And when
I say your eye is healed, I don't mean it
got better. I mean, there's no scar tissue. There's nothing.
There's no indication that a burn has happened.
S5 (19:39):
Praise the Lord.
S2 (19:40):
To your eye. eyes. So I've experienced healing. Miraculous. And
that's just one story. I could tell you more, but
I still I still, when I'm faced with a situation
and I don't know how it's going to shake down,
I still sometimes feel like God is this one. Is
this one too much? Is this one too big for you?
(20:04):
Maybe that's how you're feeling right now. Just overwhelmed with
your diagnosis, overwhelmed with your crisis or your relationship or
your financial need. And you're just wondering, is this one
too big for God? Take a minute today, will you?
And remember the ways that God has showed up in
your life and done what you thought was impossible? Because
(20:28):
he has. I know you have these stories to tell.
They're a part of your story. It's how God has
worked in your life. And if you can't think of
one from your own life, read scripture story after story
after story of how God showed up. God did bring me.
He fed all of those thousands and thousands of people
that Moses thought he never could. Is the Lord's arm
(20:50):
too short? It's not. That was God's response to Moses.
Is the Lord's arm too short? It wasn't for Moses.
It isn't for you. So take a moment. Reflect on
what God has done, and just believe in faith. For
me today. God is the God who heals all kinds
of diseases. He mends broken hearts. He provides daily bread.
(21:11):
He makes a way where there seems to be no way.
He parts waters. He calms seas. He raises the dead.
He saves sinners like you and me. And he gives
us a holy purpose. Oh my goodness, my friend. You're
not too much for God. The Lord's arm is not
too short. He had you then. He's got you now.
S6 (21:35):
Jesus is really good at helping you sort out your emotions.
S2 (21:39):
I don't know about you, but sometimes I struggle to
figure myself out, and I feel like I have to
know what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking before I show
up with God. And what I mean by that is. Yeah.
Perry and I, we joke around sometimes it's like, do
I need to bring any, any emotions wheel so that
you can point out what you're feeling. And I'm like,
you know what? Honestly, that would be super helpful. But
(22:01):
when it comes to just getting one on one with Jesus,
because I have this idea that I have to have
that figured out before I meet with him, sometimes I
find myself kind of pushing back my time with him,
because I feel like I have to figure myself out
before I meet with him one on one. It's like
all of my emotions are this jumbled up tangle of knots,
(22:24):
and I just really don't know what I'm feeling. I
was reading through Matthew 28 the other day, and the
context is, you know, right after Jesus was crucified, there's
this earthquake. The angel comes down from heaven, goes over
to the tomb, rolls back the stone and sits on it.
And the guards pass out and Mary and Mary show
(22:45):
up at the at the tomb, and the angel tells
them to go tell the disciples that Jesus is not there.
So verse eight, this is where we're picking up in
the story. The women hurried away from the tomb, afraid
yet filled with joy, and they ran to tell the disciples.
And there's so much I mean, it's just one sentence,
(23:05):
but there's so much in here. What jumped out at
me as I was reading it was the fact that
they were both afraid and filled with joy. I'm like,
hold up a minute. Those are very different emotions, afraid
and joyful. But our emotions can be really complicated. We
can feel more than one thing at one time. I
can be scared and I can be excited. I'm actually
(23:29):
experiencing this right now in my own life because my
oldest daughter has been stateside. She lives in the Czech Republic,
but she's been stateside now for six months staying with us,
and I'm. She's leaving next week, Sunday on Mother's Day.
I have to drive her to the airport.
S5 (23:43):
I know who planned that.
S2 (23:45):
I know it's terrible. I have to bring both Bryn
and my youngest daughter, Haven to the airport. We'll be
in Chicago for Haven's graduation from college, but then Haven
will fly back to Nashville, Tennessee, and Bryn will fly
on to the Czech Republic. So I'll bring them both
to the airport, drop them off, and drive three hours
home by myself on Mother's Day. It's going to be
(24:08):
a weepy long ride, let me just tell you that.
But in these days where I'm I'm kind of realizing
we're in the last week, this is our last week together.
And I'm sad because I'm going to miss my girl
so much. I'm going to miss grocery shopping with her.
I'm gonna miss watching our show together. I'm just I'm
(24:30):
going to miss bumping into her in the kitchen because
we're both cooking and we're tripping over each other. And
I'm just going to miss all of that. I'm going
to miss hugging her and wrapping my arms around her
so much. But I'm also super excited for her because
she's going home and God has good things for her.
He's doing incredible things through her life in the Czech Republic,
and that is exactly where she's supposed to be. So
(24:51):
I'm excited and sad at the same time. And the
good news is we can run to Jesus with our emotions.
We can be we can have this tangled up knot
stuff and bring it right to him. We don't have
to have it figured out before we go to him. When,
you know, when when Mary and Mary ran into Jesus
(25:14):
in the garden, um, he told them not to be afraid.
And it wasn't because he was scolding them. He wasn't
admonishing them for being afraid, but he did kind of
help them to figure out with their emotions that they
don't need to be afraid because he's here. He's he's
(25:34):
with us. There's nothing to be afraid of. So he
kind of helps them to sort out their feelings. And that,
to me, felt like an invitation. I felt like God himself,
as I was reading through the story, was saying, Shauna,
just bring your stuff to me and you don't have
to have it all figured out. And I'll I'll help
you to sort it through. We can untangle the knots together.
(25:55):
So if you're feeling a jumble of emotions and. Oh,
for the love, if that keeps you from going to
God and meeting with him one on one, you don't
have to keep that from him. And you don't have
to have it all figured out. Just run to him
and he'll help you sort it out.
S1 (26:12):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shauna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the Period Shauna podcast
comes from their live show Barry and Shauna Mornings on
89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us
by texting 809 68 8930 and please subscribe.
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