May 21, 2025 • 29 mins
When we have unfulfilled longings it’s hard to trust God for His timing. But even with all our questions and heartache we’re reminded in scripture that we can trust that God’s timing is perfect!
Perry and his bride Teresa were just on their 40th anniversary trip to Italy and Ireland. And on a sunshiny morning in St. Peter’s Square in Rome they met Jorge. Jorge asked Perry to take his picture with St. Peter’s Basilica in the background. Then Perry’s asked Jorge, “What does Jesus mean to you?” It was a stunning God moment.
Shawna’s pet peeve is being interrupted. But there was one time she was grateful for it. God interrupted her freak out with a message of correction and love.
Perry had gone in to get some blood work. Get in, get out, move on with the day. But then there was this really troubled woman in the hospital lobby. He’d gotten his blood work and had left the hospital when the Holy Spirit said, “Go back and see if you can help this woman.”
Our love for God leads us to surrender. Shawna has a situation in her life that she cannot control, no matter how hard she tries. So she: 1) freaked out, 2) got mad, and 3) told God the truth—that she was scared. He met her in unexpected ways in her honesty, and it led her to love Him even more, and ultimately, to surrender.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:03):
It's the Perry and Shaunna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:19):
Timing is everything, and God's timing is perfect. God has
met me at just the right time, time and time again.
I remember when I was in high school I had
an injury. I was a freshman in high school 14.
It was a Friday morning. I was getting ready. I
was curling my hair and you have to know kind
of a little bit real quick. This is important to
(00:40):
the story. My right eye is really, really bad. Like
my vision is really poor in my right eye and
my left eye is not great, but my left eye
is my good eye. And I rely heavily on my sight.
For my left eye, for my sight. Okay, back to
my story. I'm getting ready for high school. It's Friday
morning curling my hair. I dropped the curling iron and
(01:02):
it happened so quick I didn't even have a chance
to react. I didn't even have a chance to blink
and protect my eyeball. So the curling iron bounced off
of my eye and burned my pupil.
S3 (01:16):
Oh, that sounds really painful.
S2 (01:18):
It was so bad. It was so bad I could
not open my eye. My eye was just watering profusely.
I'm crying. My mom takes me to the ER. You know,
we get checked out. Um, they put some. They had
to put some eye drops in my eye to just
numb everything so they could even examine it, open it
up and look at it. And it was a mess.
They're like, you have to go immediately to a specialist.
So we go to the specialist. He does an exam,
(01:39):
he puts some medicine in there and he patches it up.
And you know, he says it's going to be life
changing for you because I've worn, you know, had worn
contact lenses since I was 6 or 7 years old. Right.
So he's like, you're not going to be able to
wear contacts anymore. You're back to glasses and I don't
know how this is going to impact your vision.
S3 (02:01):
Did you go to the worst case? Like I'm not
going to be able to see.
S2 (02:05):
I mean, I went to thinking about the possibility of, like,
I was 14, Perry. I was like, you know, we'd
go to the mall and I would grab my mom's
keys and carry them just so I look like I
was old enough to drive, you know? And I'm thinking, oh,
my gosh, I'm never going to drive. I mean, this
was going to be it could have been very life altering.
(02:26):
It was terrifying. So it was over the weekend. So Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I,
you know, I had to be led out of there
by my mom because I couldn't even walk by myself
safely because of my just the vision of my right eye.
So anyway, it was Friday, Saturday, Sunday of pretty much
just resting and laying in bed, my mom and dad
(02:46):
praying over me. We actually had a group come together
on Sunday and had kind of a special prayer time
for me for the healing of my eye. Lots and
lots of people praying for me. But just day after day,
three full days of wondering what my life was going
to be like. And then we went to the doctor
to find out. And that three days felt like an eternity.
(03:07):
You know, I was 14, so there's that. But also
just so much was hanging in the balance. And it
was a real journey of learning to trust God in
the midst of all that. So Monday morning we go
back to the specialist that I had seen on Friday.
He takes off the patch. He examines my eye. He
leaves the office, goes and gets his partner, who's also
(03:29):
a specialist. He comes in. He looks at my eye, finally,
kind of like shaking their heads. They're like the doctor said,
if I hadn't done the exam on Friday, I wouldn't
believe what I'm looking at today. But there's absolutely no
evidence of injury to your eye at all. It is
as if it didn't happen. So I was fine. They said,
you can pop your contacts back in and go about
(03:50):
your life because there's literally nothing to show for your injury.
S3 (03:56):
You kicked this off with. Timing is everything. How did
God's timing fit with this story?
S2 (04:02):
You know, in that three days of waiting and waiting
and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting, I. I
didn't know what was in front of me. And so
it was a period of, gosh, do I trust you, God,
with my life? Do I trust you with with what's coming?
Can I trust you? Really?
S3 (04:20):
Yeah. And that's so human. Because we have our time.
I have my timetable, and it's most often not God's timetable.
S2 (04:29):
Oh. Come on. Yeah. I mean, I think there's the question. God,
do I trust you? But then there's the question. God,
do I trust you with your timing? Because a lot
of times we can say in a situation, you know,
do you trust God with your marriage? Sure. Yeah. Do
you trust God with your kids? Absolutely. Yeah. Trust God
with my kids. Do you trust God? You know, in
every area of life, right? That matters. Do you trust God?
Yeah I do. Do you trust God for his timing
(04:52):
in your marriage? Do you trust God for his timing
in with your kids? You know, I've got kids that
have longings that are unfulfilled at this point. Do I
trust God for his timing in their life? Sometimes I
trust him better than others with his timing, but we
can trust God for his timing. I was I was
looking at Scripture and just kind of the here's some
(05:14):
things that God says to us about his timing. Galatians
four four but when the right time came, God sent
his son, born of a woman, subject to the law.
When the right time came, he sent Jesus. Romans five six.
You see, at just the right time, when we were
still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
S3 (05:35):
This one gets me because I was at my moral
worst when I was 18, and a night playing hoops
at the rec center changed my life forever because I
had a terrible ankle injury. I've shared this story many times,
but I never get tired of sharing this story. Maybe
you get tired of hearing it, but.
S2 (05:54):
The story of God.
S3 (05:55):
So yeah.
S4 (05:56):
Just destroyed.
S3 (05:57):
My ankle and they took me home. Friends took me
home and Jesus healed my ankle. But he touched the
shame in my heart. And I was 18 and I
was ready to launch into my whole life. And if
that ankle sprain had not happened, and I had not
experienced the love of God at my moral worst, my
(06:20):
life would look so different. But God in his perfect
timing when when my sins, the sins I was so
ashamed of, collided with his grace at just the right time.
My life was changed.
S2 (06:34):
Just the right time. Psalm 37 seven says, be still
before the Lord and wait patiently for him. That's a
hard one. Wait patiently for his timing because his timing
is perfect. And then there's benefits for those who wait.
Those who wait on the Lord will renew their strength.
They will mount up with wings like eagles. They will
run and not be weary. They will walk and not
(06:55):
be faint. When we wait on the Lord, his timing
is good. Actually, his timing is perfect. He's always right
on time and he has made everything beautiful in its time.
You can trust him and you can trust him for
his timing.
S3 (07:14):
We love Jesus because he first loved us. It was
day three of our time in Rome. This was Teresa's
and my trip of a lifetime for our 40th anniversary.
And on that day we made our way to Saint
Peter's Square. Just saw it on the TV there. It
was cool to say I was there. And then we
went into Saint Peter's Basilica, which is believed to be
(07:37):
built over the tomb of Saint Peter. This is the
Peter who denied Jesus three times but got a massive
do over, just like you and I get you get
a do over and a do over and a do over.
He went on to be one of the boldest messengers
of Jesus in the first century, and was executed by
(07:59):
Nero in Rome, just over 30 years after the resurrection.
So there we are, in that incredible place of beauty
and history. The square is massive. You could fit a
football stadium inside that square, and the basilica is breathtaking.
The artwork that tells the story of Jesus, and the
(08:23):
ceiling that looks like it reaches into heaven. And though
there were waves of people inside there, I felt peace.
By the way, I got yelled at inside there too.
S4 (08:33):
You did not. I did. Hey!
S2 (08:35):
Come on!
S4 (08:35):
There's rules when you.
S2 (08:36):
Travel, bro.
S4 (08:37):
You gotta follow the rules.
S3 (08:39):
I was going to go the wrong way. Got yelled.
S4 (08:41):
At.
S2 (08:42):
You were exploring something.
S4 (08:43):
That was like, roped off or what?
S3 (08:45):
I was just going the wrong way. The circle was.
The circle was going counterclockwise.
S4 (08:51):
Gotcha.
S3 (08:51):
And I tried to go clockwise and got called out
for it. And so the sounds of the organ were
floating through that space, and there were voices singing praises
to Jesus. There was a chapel. There was a lot
of different chapels inside this massive place. And, and they
were having, I think, a mass, and they were singing
the liturgy and it was it was beautiful. So after
(09:13):
the Basilica, we went back into Saint Peter's Square. And
a Latino man, George, said, could you take my picture?
And he gave me his iPhone, and I made sure
he was prominent in the frame. But I also got
Saint Peter's Basilica clearly in the background. And I got
to tell you, I saw a lot of great art
in Europe, but that was right there, right up there
(09:36):
with the.
S4 (09:37):
Art of Europe that you took of George.
S3 (09:39):
I mean, he looked at that and his jaw dropped.
S4 (09:42):
It was just.
S3 (09:43):
One of those artistic moments. But then I asked him,
are you Catholic? And he said yes. And then I asked,
what does Jesus mean to you? And he put his
hand on his heart and he just began to cry.
Now this was a it was a silent cry. You know,
those where there's no sound, but there's just like a shaking.
S4 (10:09):
Yeah.
S2 (10:09):
Oh, wow.
S3 (10:11):
And yeah, there were no words to express his love
for Jesus. That's how deep it was for him. That's
how deep it is for him.
S4 (10:19):
What a.
S2 (10:19):
Testimony.
S4 (10:20):
Yeah, what a wordless testimony.
S2 (10:23):
To just have an expression of emotion that just. You
can't even try to form words to express what Jesus
means to you.
S3 (10:31):
It was such a holy, holy moment. I said, you're
my brother in Jesus. Of course, he said, and I
asked him if I could give him a hug because, well,
the lahey's are huggers. And of course he said yes.
And then he and Teresa hugged and off he went.
And Teresa and I just stood there like, what just happened?
(10:55):
We didn't even ask why he was in Rome. We
didn't get our picture with him. There were so many
things afterwards. It happened so fast.
S2 (11:05):
Just this. I'm so passionate about this period. But like,
we are created for relationship. God is relationship. Father, son
and Holy Spirit. We're created in his image. We are
created for this connection with other people. And sometimes that
connection happens with a complete stranger in Rome. You know,
(11:28):
chances are probably not going to run into George again
this side of heaven, but that his life and that
moment left a mark on you.
S3 (11:39):
It did. And you know, there is a difference between
that spiritual connection. And just like we met a lot
of people from the States, you could tell. And I'm.
S2 (11:48):
Americans.
S3 (11:49):
Yeah, I would say, hey, are you from the States?
And we'd share where each other was from. And, you know,
it was it was a cool connection. But this was
like so much deeper because, you know, the Holy Spirit
lives in us. The Holy Spirit lives in George and
me and Teresa. And so, yeah, it's it's like we
(12:09):
got to experience the dance of the Trinity that's been
going on forever between the father, son and the Holy
Spirit and now includes his people. But, you know, what
is it that elicits that kind of reaction when you
ask a Jesus follower, someone you've never met, and they
put their hand on their heart and they begin to cry,
(12:29):
and you feel that instant bond. It's that we you know,
we've alluded to this, but it's that we know Jesus.
It's that he lovingly crafted us in his image and
that even though we've been completely unfaithful to him, he
bled out for us to wash away our sins. And
he's put his very spirit in us, the very life
(12:50):
of God that will live on in us forever. And
you know when when you know intuitively all those things
are true. That's why you have that kind of reaction.
S2 (13:03):
Don't you wish you could have taken George to a
cafe and just heard his story?
S3 (13:07):
Yeah, I mean.
S2 (13:08):
I do.
S3 (13:09):
Too. Now I'm just. Now I'm just thinking of that. Sure.
You know, all these days later. Now. But, you know,
in that moment in Saint Peter's Square, I was convinced
again that Jesus lives. You know, we we saw a
lot of evidence of Jesus in the art and the
sculpture and the stories and and all that. But to
(13:31):
see Jesus alive in the heart of somebody else, a living,
breathing human being in space and time right now. That
beat all the other stuff, man.
S2 (13:44):
Here's the thing. We get to be that today, we
get to be the living expression of God Himself wherever
we go today.
S3 (13:54):
Yeah. And Jesus has put his love in our heart.
And so just just let that love pour out of
you today. And I want to let his love pour
out of me today because he first loved us.
S2 (14:13):
It was the best interruption ever. All right. Getting real
with you here. I have a pet peeve. Everybody has
a pet peeve, but mine is being interrupted. I was
in a conversation and someone just straight up interrupted me
like mid-story and just hijacked the conversation and I could
(14:33):
feel myself just getting hot. I felt like a cartoon character.
You know, when you would see, you'd be watching, like,
Tom and Jerry or something, and you'd see them get
red at the feet, and it works its way all
the way up, you know. And then it blows off
the top and steam comes out and the whistle blows.
That is what I felt like.
S3 (14:52):
I thought we worked through this.
S2 (14:53):
Come on.
S3 (14:54):
Now. You gotta bring it up before everybody. No, I
thought you forgave me.
S2 (14:58):
It wasn't. You had nothing to do with you. But
my heart started, like, literally. Okay, so outside of the
cartoon character thing, my heart started beating really fast. My
palms got sweaty, my forehead got sweaty, and I was
just livid. I hate being interrupted. I really, really do.
There was one time that I was really grateful that
(15:18):
I was interrupted. We were living in Arizona at the time,
and my husband and I had been praying for months
about this new ministry opportunity here in West Michigan. And
the church here in Michigan had flown us out for
kind of a final interview for Dan, and it was
an opportunity to just meet people and experience the church,
check out the area, check out the schools, all that stuff. Anyway,
(15:38):
after we landed, they took us straight to this little
cottage that they put us up on on Lake Cobb.
It was the sweetest thing. The kids were little. They
were super excited to get down to the water. So
we're dropping bags off in the cottage and my husband's like,
I'll take the kids down to the water. You can
have a minute. I was like, okay, as soon as
everybody left the cottage and I was there alone with
(15:59):
the Lord, I started to have myself a proper freak out.
I was like, what are we doing here? We are
in the middle of nowhere and we have a wonderful
life in Arizona. We've got friends, we've got a church,
we've got everything is established and built up there. There's
no reason why we would leave Arizona and move our
whole family and life to Michigan. This is crazy. This
(16:21):
is not going to happen.
S3 (16:22):
But you saw that it would be really good for
Dan and for your kids, but you didn't see how
it would be really good for you. So that was
really that was really hard for you.
S2 (16:34):
Yeah. And that came later. That came later that realization
of like, oh, I can really see how my whole
family's going to thrive here. But this is so different
for me, and I don't see what God has for
me at all in West Michigan. That came later. But
in this freak out moment, I just thought, we are
not going to uproot our I love my house. I
(16:56):
love my pool in the backyard. I love the sunshine
and the heat in Arizona. Like we're not moving. And
I just started freaking out.
S3 (17:03):
Did you feel comfortable in your current situation?
S2 (17:07):
So comfortable. Yeah, that was my sweet spot right there.
I was close to home, close to LA. You know,
just hop in the car and drive for five hours
and you're with mom and dad. Yeah. Anyway, right there
in the middle of my freak out, the Lord interrupted me.
And I'm telling you, it was like a firm tone.
And it's kind of wild because while it was firm
and corrective and disciplinary, it was also at the same time,
(17:31):
so affirming. He just he just stopped all the anxiety
and all the freak out and he interrupted with this.
He said, I know the plans I have for you,
Shawna plans to prosper you, not to harm you, plans
to give you hope and a future. And it was
very dad like, you know, I felt the discipline of
the Lord, but I also felt comforted and encouraged by
(17:54):
it at the same time.
S3 (17:55):
Like, sit down, sit down on the couch. You can
trust me, Shawna.
S2 (17:59):
We're going to have a heart to heart here. Yeah.
So my anxious heart literally just slowed down as I
received the correction from the Lord and the truth from him.
It was the best interruption ever. Sometimes being interrupted is
a good and beautiful thing. And so my prayer for
you today is that the Lord would be able to
(18:20):
interrupt what you're walking through right now, what you're thinking,
what you're believing, and that he would speak the truth
to your hearts in a way that only a good
dad could.
S3 (18:34):
Follow God's prompts. It was last Thursday and I went
to Zeeland Hospital to get some blood work, and when
I walked into the lobby, there was a woman who
was completely losing it. Stress. Outbursts of anger. Everyone in
the lobby could hear her. The security was there. I
(18:56):
checked in, got my blood drawn, and as I walked
out of Zeeland Hospital, this woman was sitting on the
bench talking to someone on the phone. She had cooled off,
but I could tell she was still troubled. And I
started back home and I was thinking about her, and
I was about a mile from the hospital, and I
felt prompted to go back. And so I turned my
(19:18):
Rav4 around and I thought to myself, what am I doing?
S2 (19:23):
What am I getting myself into here? But you felt
that from the Lord? Yeah.
S3 (19:27):
Yeah. Holy spirit prompt.
S2 (19:28):
Awesome.
S3 (19:29):
And I thought, I can't believe I'm doing this. Lord,
you're going to have to show me the way. And so,
you know, we just go as far ahead as we
can see. And I parked again at Zeeland Hospital, started
walking back to the bench where this woman had been.
And right then she walked back out the front door
toward the bench. So I just knew, you know, it
was that perfect timing. I said, you seem really troubled.
(19:51):
Is there any way I can help? And she told
me a little bit of her story, and she had
been left at the hospital by her family, and I
asked her if I could pray with her. So then
I prayed. I just asked God to show her that
she was seen and known and loved, and that she
would realize that because some random guy came up and
prayed for her. And when I finished she said, are
(20:13):
you busy? I need a ride to the dentist. So
here we go. Here's here's the next step.
S2 (20:21):
On goes the adventure. Yeah, yeah yeah. Step by step
I'm with you.
S3 (20:24):
So we never get bored right in the journey with Jesus.
S2 (20:27):
Oh heavens no. If you're on an adventure with Jesus,
if you're listening for the Holy Spirit to prompt you
like you did and to nudge you in this direction,
or that it's not going to be boring.
S3 (20:38):
So now she's in my Rav4 and I'm taking her
to the dentist, and I find out she's an atheist
because if there were a God, how could he let
all the bad things happen to me that have happened
to me? And you know what? I was talking with
someone in Ireland, Jack, the owner of a bed and breakfast.
(20:59):
And he pretty much said the same thing. If Jesus
let all that happened, I just can't believe in a
Jesus that would let all that stuff happen. You know,
that's a major obstacle. But I just listened. I told
her about being a radio guy and a singer songwriter
(21:20):
and but before that I said, you know, if you
had been the only one to have ever been born.
Jesus still would have come and died for you. So
I did get in some of the good news, but
I certainly wasn't preachy. I just mostly wanted to listen
to her. Everybody's got a story.
S2 (21:38):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, even when you said for her
response about, you know, whether there's a God or not man,
if there's a God, he's not a good one because
otherwise he wouldn't. To let these things happen to me
just tells me there's such a story of pain there.
S3 (21:53):
Yeah. Yeah, I could tell there were layers and layers
of stuff that have happened throughout her life. And there
are people around us just like her all the time. Anyway,
I texted her how she could listen to our show
and to my music. We said goodbye and that was it.
(22:14):
It only took me maybe 30 minutes out of my day.
A 30 minute quote unquote interruption, a beautiful interruption. Boy,
that'd be a good song title. Beautiful interruption. She was
headed to the dentist to get her new teeth. She said,
I've been looking forward to this day for so long.
I finally get to smile. So the Lord gifted me
(22:38):
with the opportunity on her day to get to smile,
to be part of that.
S2 (22:44):
Yes. I'm so glad you went back there, Perry. I'm
so glad you followed that first nudge.
S3 (22:50):
Yeah. And it was like. Just like I said, go
as far ahead as you can see. As I was
turning around. Lord, what am I doing? I don't know
what to do, but I've had some experience with this,
with my suffering friend, and many times he's called on
me and I've I've gone to be with him and
on the way thought, Lord, I don't know what I'm
(23:11):
going to do, right?
S2 (23:12):
I don't know what this is leading to. I feel
like when the Lord nudged you to turn around, that
that was okay. So this is such a great example
of how one obedience leads us to a new place
and leads to the next obedience and leads to the next.
Because if the Lord had said to you or nudged
you and said, go pick her up and bring her,
give her a ride to where she wants to go,
(23:33):
you probably would have been like, no, I don't think so, Lord.
You know, maybe not. That's probably what I would have thought. Like, oh, God,
you're asking a lot right there. But it was just
go back, turn around, go back. And then you did that.
And then it was, you know, you had the opportunity
to pray. You had the opportunity to give her a ride.
Like one thing just opened up in front of the other.
S3 (23:52):
Yeah. The Lord made it very manageable for me.
S2 (23:56):
He's so good like that.
S3 (23:58):
I don't know what God will do with this in
her life, but I know he's at work in her life,
moving her toward the light, moving her toward hope. What
an honor. What a privilege that God entrusts us to
bring light and to bring hope to people who don't
have hope and light. It's an honor because once we
(24:20):
were darkness. But now we are light in the Lord.
So I just encourage you. I hope this encourages you
to follow God's prompts today. And I think of First
Corinthians 1558. Stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give
yourself fully to the work of the Lord, because you
know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
(24:42):
I mean, you give a cup of cold water. Jesus says,
that'll be rewarded.
S2 (24:49):
Our love for God leads us to surrender. There's a
situation in my life where I just really, really, really
want to control the outcome, and I can't. And at first,
I had a proper freak out. Perry, you weren't here
to tell me. Don't freak out, Shawna. So I did.
I had a proper freak out, and then I felt entitled.
That was phase two. I have the right to fill
(25:12):
in the blank. Right? Pride, pride pride, pride.
S3 (25:15):
You say I wasn't here. I was probably somewhere else
freaking out.
S2 (25:19):
You were probably in Rome. Yeah, while I was freaking out. But, yeah,
there was a couple phases. So phase one, total proper
freak out. Phase two, you know, pride. Pride pride, pride. Um,
and then on Friday, something shifted. And this time that
I had with the Lord, and I got just really
honest with him, and I was like, I got tender
instead of angry. It was a huge shift, but I
(25:40):
was like, God, I'm. I'm scared. I can't do anything
about this. Which means that I have to trust you.
And to be honest, I'm actually struggling with that right now.
God didn't shame me. It was so sweet how he
met me in this time. He didn't shame me for
my lack of faith in him. I actually really sensed
that he was understanding of me like a really good
(26:02):
friend with me in that moment, had compassion on me
and was like, yeah, I get it.
S3 (26:09):
I'm reading a book right now by Bill Thrasher, who's
a moody Bible Institute Prof. And one of the things
he says in the book is, thank God for the
circumstances in your life that are causing you to depend
on God to trust him.
S2 (26:26):
That's so good. You know, the way that he met
me in this moment with compassion made me think of,
you know, it's his kindness that leads us to repentance.
I needed to repent for freaking out. I needed to
repent for feeling entitled and for my pride as I
battled through all of this together. And then kind of
in that sweet honesty of being with a really dear friend,
(26:50):
I was reminded of Mary when, you know, I mean,
she's engaged to be married. She had a great reputation.
She finds out she's pregnant with Jesus before she gets married.
This is huge scandal and judgment, you know, bad reputation,
like her whole life shifted. Changed. And at that moment,
(27:13):
probably didn't necessarily seem for the good. You know, I
don't know, just, like scary, scary and unknown. She could
have panicked, freaked out, gotten angry, all the things. But
she didn't. Her response was, May it be to me,
as you have said. It was surrender. And I think
that came out of her love for God. It was her.
(27:35):
Her love response was this expression of obedience to his
plan for her life, even if it was radically different
from what her plan was for her life. She basically
in saying, May it be to me, as you have said,
she was saying, I, I trust you. You can do
what you want to do.
S3 (27:53):
I think one of the worst things that I can
get in life is, yes, answers to all my prayers
where I want God to say yes. I need those
weights and I need those no's.
S2 (28:07):
Yeah. It's hard.
S3 (28:09):
It's hard. But it. is what causes me to grow
in my faith.
S2 (28:15):
And in the hard. We can be honest with God.
We can, you know, tell him in that space, this
is where I'm at. This is what I'm feeling. I mean,
vulnerably honest, the anger and the freak out. Honestly, they
were just cover up for what was really going on,
which is I'm scared. But I tell you what. When
I got honest with him and he met me with
(28:35):
such compassion, that's where the turning happened for me. And
I realized, yeah, may it be to me, as you
have said, that's that's when surrender happened. You can trust
God when you don't know what's coming. You can trust God.
S1 (28:51):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the podcast comes from
their live show. Barry and Shawna. Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio,
Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 809
68 8930. And please subscribe.
It's the Perry and Shaunna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:19):
Timing is everything, and God's timing is perfect. God has
met me at just the right time, time and time again.
I remember when I was in high school I had
an injury. I was a freshman in high school 14.
It was a Friday morning. I was getting ready. I
was curling my hair and you have to know kind
of a little bit real quick. This is important to
(00:40):
the story. My right eye is really, really bad. Like
my vision is really poor in my right eye and
my left eye is not great, but my left eye
is my good eye. And I rely heavily on my sight.
For my left eye, for my sight. Okay, back to
my story. I'm getting ready for high school. It's Friday
morning curling my hair. I dropped the curling iron and
(01:02):
it happened so quick I didn't even have a chance
to react. I didn't even have a chance to blink
and protect my eyeball. So the curling iron bounced off
of my eye and burned my pupil.
S3 (01:16):
Oh, that sounds really painful.
S2 (01:18):
It was so bad. It was so bad I could
not open my eye. My eye was just watering profusely.
I'm crying. My mom takes me to the ER. You know,
we get checked out. Um, they put some. They had
to put some eye drops in my eye to just
numb everything so they could even examine it, open it
up and look at it. And it was a mess.
They're like, you have to go immediately to a specialist.
So we go to the specialist. He does an exam,
(01:39):
he puts some medicine in there and he patches it up.
And you know, he says it's going to be life
changing for you because I've worn, you know, had worn
contact lenses since I was 6 or 7 years old. Right.
So he's like, you're not going to be able to
wear contacts anymore. You're back to glasses and I don't
know how this is going to impact your vision.
S3 (02:01):
Did you go to the worst case? Like I'm not
going to be able to see.
S2 (02:05):
I mean, I went to thinking about the possibility of, like,
I was 14, Perry. I was like, you know, we'd
go to the mall and I would grab my mom's
keys and carry them just so I look like I
was old enough to drive, you know? And I'm thinking, oh,
my gosh, I'm never going to drive. I mean, this
was going to be it could have been very life altering.
(02:26):
It was terrifying. So it was over the weekend. So Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I,
you know, I had to be led out of there
by my mom because I couldn't even walk by myself
safely because of my just the vision of my right eye.
So anyway, it was Friday, Saturday, Sunday of pretty much
just resting and laying in bed, my mom and dad
(02:46):
praying over me. We actually had a group come together
on Sunday and had kind of a special prayer time
for me for the healing of my eye. Lots and
lots of people praying for me. But just day after day,
three full days of wondering what my life was going
to be like. And then we went to the doctor
to find out. And that three days felt like an eternity.
(03:07):
You know, I was 14, so there's that. But also
just so much was hanging in the balance. And it
was a real journey of learning to trust God in
the midst of all that. So Monday morning we go
back to the specialist that I had seen on Friday.
He takes off the patch. He examines my eye. He
leaves the office, goes and gets his partner, who's also
(03:29):
a specialist. He comes in. He looks at my eye, finally,
kind of like shaking their heads. They're like the doctor said,
if I hadn't done the exam on Friday, I wouldn't
believe what I'm looking at today. But there's absolutely no
evidence of injury to your eye at all. It is
as if it didn't happen. So I was fine. They said,
you can pop your contacts back in and go about
(03:50):
your life because there's literally nothing to show for your injury.
S3 (03:56):
You kicked this off with. Timing is everything. How did
God's timing fit with this story?
S2 (04:02):
You know, in that three days of waiting and waiting
and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting, I. I
didn't know what was in front of me. And so
it was a period of, gosh, do I trust you, God,
with my life? Do I trust you with with what's coming?
Can I trust you? Really?
S3 (04:20):
Yeah. And that's so human. Because we have our time.
I have my timetable, and it's most often not God's timetable.
S2 (04:29):
Oh. Come on. Yeah. I mean, I think there's the question. God,
do I trust you? But then there's the question. God,
do I trust you with your timing? Because a lot
of times we can say in a situation, you know,
do you trust God with your marriage? Sure. Yeah. Do
you trust God with your kids? Absolutely. Yeah. Trust God
with my kids. Do you trust God? You know, in
every area of life, right? That matters. Do you trust God?
Yeah I do. Do you trust God for his timing
(04:52):
in your marriage? Do you trust God for his timing
in with your kids? You know, I've got kids that
have longings that are unfulfilled at this point. Do I
trust God for his timing in their life? Sometimes I
trust him better than others with his timing, but we
can trust God for his timing. I was I was
looking at Scripture and just kind of the here's some
(05:14):
things that God says to us about his timing. Galatians
four four but when the right time came, God sent
his son, born of a woman, subject to the law.
When the right time came, he sent Jesus. Romans five six.
You see, at just the right time, when we were
still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
S3 (05:35):
This one gets me because I was at my moral
worst when I was 18, and a night playing hoops
at the rec center changed my life forever because I
had a terrible ankle injury. I've shared this story many times,
but I never get tired of sharing this story. Maybe
you get tired of hearing it, but.
S2 (05:54):
The story of God.
S3 (05:55):
So yeah.
S4 (05:56):
Just destroyed.
S3 (05:57):
My ankle and they took me home. Friends took me
home and Jesus healed my ankle. But he touched the
shame in my heart. And I was 18 and I
was ready to launch into my whole life. And if
that ankle sprain had not happened, and I had not
experienced the love of God at my moral worst, my
(06:20):
life would look so different. But God in his perfect
timing when when my sins, the sins I was so
ashamed of, collided with his grace at just the right time.
My life was changed.
S2 (06:34):
Just the right time. Psalm 37 seven says, be still
before the Lord and wait patiently for him. That's a
hard one. Wait patiently for his timing because his timing
is perfect. And then there's benefits for those who wait.
Those who wait on the Lord will renew their strength.
They will mount up with wings like eagles. They will
run and not be weary. They will walk and not
(06:55):
be faint. When we wait on the Lord, his timing
is good. Actually, his timing is perfect. He's always right
on time and he has made everything beautiful in its time.
You can trust him and you can trust him for
his timing.
S3 (07:14):
We love Jesus because he first loved us. It was
day three of our time in Rome. This was Teresa's
and my trip of a lifetime for our 40th anniversary.
And on that day we made our way to Saint
Peter's Square. Just saw it on the TV there. It
was cool to say I was there. And then we
went into Saint Peter's Basilica, which is believed to be
(07:37):
built over the tomb of Saint Peter. This is the
Peter who denied Jesus three times but got a massive
do over, just like you and I get you get
a do over and a do over and a do over.
He went on to be one of the boldest messengers
of Jesus in the first century, and was executed by
(07:59):
Nero in Rome, just over 30 years after the resurrection.
So there we are, in that incredible place of beauty
and history. The square is massive. You could fit a
football stadium inside that square, and the basilica is breathtaking.
The artwork that tells the story of Jesus, and the
(08:23):
ceiling that looks like it reaches into heaven. And though
there were waves of people inside there, I felt peace.
By the way, I got yelled at inside there too.
S4 (08:33):
You did not. I did. Hey!
S2 (08:35):
Come on!
S4 (08:35):
There's rules when you.
S2 (08:36):
Travel, bro.
S4 (08:37):
You gotta follow the rules.
S3 (08:39):
I was going to go the wrong way. Got yelled.
S4 (08:41):
At.
S2 (08:42):
You were exploring something.
S4 (08:43):
That was like, roped off or what?
S3 (08:45):
I was just going the wrong way. The circle was.
The circle was going counterclockwise.
S4 (08:51):
Gotcha.
S3 (08:51):
And I tried to go clockwise and got called out
for it. And so the sounds of the organ were
floating through that space, and there were voices singing praises
to Jesus. There was a chapel. There was a lot
of different chapels inside this massive place. And, and they
were having, I think, a mass, and they were singing
the liturgy and it was it was beautiful. So after
(09:13):
the Basilica, we went back into Saint Peter's Square. And
a Latino man, George, said, could you take my picture?
And he gave me his iPhone, and I made sure
he was prominent in the frame. But I also got
Saint Peter's Basilica clearly in the background. And I got
to tell you, I saw a lot of great art
in Europe, but that was right there, right up there
(09:36):
with the.
S4 (09:37):
Art of Europe that you took of George.
S3 (09:39):
I mean, he looked at that and his jaw dropped.
S4 (09:42):
It was just.
S3 (09:43):
One of those artistic moments. But then I asked him,
are you Catholic? And he said yes. And then I asked,
what does Jesus mean to you? And he put his
hand on his heart and he just began to cry.
Now this was a it was a silent cry. You know,
those where there's no sound, but there's just like a shaking.
S4 (10:09):
Yeah.
S2 (10:09):
Oh, wow.
S3 (10:11):
And yeah, there were no words to express his love
for Jesus. That's how deep it was for him. That's
how deep it is for him.
S4 (10:19):
What a.
S2 (10:19):
Testimony.
S4 (10:20):
Yeah, what a wordless testimony.
S2 (10:23):
To just have an expression of emotion that just. You
can't even try to form words to express what Jesus
means to you.
S3 (10:31):
It was such a holy, holy moment. I said, you're
my brother in Jesus. Of course, he said, and I
asked him if I could give him a hug because, well,
the lahey's are huggers. And of course he said yes.
And then he and Teresa hugged and off he went.
And Teresa and I just stood there like, what just happened?
(10:55):
We didn't even ask why he was in Rome. We
didn't get our picture with him. There were so many
things afterwards. It happened so fast.
S2 (11:05):
Just this. I'm so passionate about this period. But like,
we are created for relationship. God is relationship. Father, son
and Holy Spirit. We're created in his image. We are
created for this connection with other people. And sometimes that
connection happens with a complete stranger in Rome. You know,
(11:28):
chances are probably not going to run into George again
this side of heaven, but that his life and that
moment left a mark on you.
S3 (11:39):
It did. And you know, there is a difference between
that spiritual connection. And just like we met a lot
of people from the States, you could tell. And I'm.
S2 (11:48):
Americans.
S3 (11:49):
Yeah, I would say, hey, are you from the States?
And we'd share where each other was from. And, you know,
it was it was a cool connection. But this was
like so much deeper because, you know, the Holy Spirit
lives in us. The Holy Spirit lives in George and
me and Teresa. And so, yeah, it's it's like we
(12:09):
got to experience the dance of the Trinity that's been
going on forever between the father, son and the Holy
Spirit and now includes his people. But, you know, what
is it that elicits that kind of reaction when you
ask a Jesus follower, someone you've never met, and they
put their hand on their heart and they begin to cry,
(12:29):
and you feel that instant bond. It's that we you know,
we've alluded to this, but it's that we know Jesus.
It's that he lovingly crafted us in his image and
that even though we've been completely unfaithful to him, he
bled out for us to wash away our sins. And
he's put his very spirit in us, the very life
(12:50):
of God that will live on in us forever. And
you know when when you know intuitively all those things
are true. That's why you have that kind of reaction.
S2 (13:03):
Don't you wish you could have taken George to a
cafe and just heard his story?
S3 (13:07):
Yeah, I mean.
S2 (13:08):
I do.
S3 (13:09):
Too. Now I'm just. Now I'm just thinking of that. Sure.
You know, all these days later. Now. But, you know,
in that moment in Saint Peter's Square, I was convinced
again that Jesus lives. You know, we we saw a
lot of evidence of Jesus in the art and the
sculpture and the stories and and all that. But to
(13:31):
see Jesus alive in the heart of somebody else, a living,
breathing human being in space and time right now. That
beat all the other stuff, man.
S2 (13:44):
Here's the thing. We get to be that today, we
get to be the living expression of God Himself wherever
we go today.
S3 (13:54):
Yeah. And Jesus has put his love in our heart.
And so just just let that love pour out of
you today. And I want to let his love pour
out of me today because he first loved us.
S2 (14:13):
It was the best interruption ever. All right. Getting real
with you here. I have a pet peeve. Everybody has
a pet peeve, but mine is being interrupted. I was
in a conversation and someone just straight up interrupted me
like mid-story and just hijacked the conversation and I could
(14:33):
feel myself just getting hot. I felt like a cartoon character.
You know, when you would see, you'd be watching, like,
Tom and Jerry or something, and you'd see them get
red at the feet, and it works its way all
the way up, you know. And then it blows off
the top and steam comes out and the whistle blows.
That is what I felt like.
S3 (14:52):
I thought we worked through this.
S2 (14:53):
Come on.
S3 (14:54):
Now. You gotta bring it up before everybody. No, I
thought you forgave me.
S2 (14:58):
It wasn't. You had nothing to do with you. But
my heart started, like, literally. Okay, so outside of the
cartoon character thing, my heart started beating really fast. My
palms got sweaty, my forehead got sweaty, and I was
just livid. I hate being interrupted. I really, really do.
There was one time that I was really grateful that
(15:18):
I was interrupted. We were living in Arizona at the time,
and my husband and I had been praying for months
about this new ministry opportunity here in West Michigan. And
the church here in Michigan had flown us out for
kind of a final interview for Dan, and it was
an opportunity to just meet people and experience the church,
check out the area, check out the schools, all that stuff. Anyway,
(15:38):
after we landed, they took us straight to this little
cottage that they put us up on on Lake Cobb.
It was the sweetest thing. The kids were little. They
were super excited to get down to the water. So
we're dropping bags off in the cottage and my husband's like,
I'll take the kids down to the water. You can
have a minute. I was like, okay, as soon as
everybody left the cottage and I was there alone with
(15:59):
the Lord, I started to have myself a proper freak out.
I was like, what are we doing here? We are
in the middle of nowhere and we have a wonderful
life in Arizona. We've got friends, we've got a church,
we've got everything is established and built up there. There's
no reason why we would leave Arizona and move our
whole family and life to Michigan. This is crazy. This
(16:21):
is not going to happen.
S3 (16:22):
But you saw that it would be really good for
Dan and for your kids, but you didn't see how
it would be really good for you. So that was
really that was really hard for you.
S2 (16:34):
Yeah. And that came later. That came later that realization
of like, oh, I can really see how my whole
family's going to thrive here. But this is so different
for me, and I don't see what God has for
me at all in West Michigan. That came later. But
in this freak out moment, I just thought, we are
not going to uproot our I love my house. I
(16:56):
love my pool in the backyard. I love the sunshine
and the heat in Arizona. Like we're not moving. And
I just started freaking out.
S3 (17:03):
Did you feel comfortable in your current situation?
S2 (17:07):
So comfortable. Yeah, that was my sweet spot right there.
I was close to home, close to LA. You know,
just hop in the car and drive for five hours
and you're with mom and dad. Yeah. Anyway, right there
in the middle of my freak out, the Lord interrupted me.
And I'm telling you, it was like a firm tone.
And it's kind of wild because while it was firm
and corrective and disciplinary, it was also at the same time,
(17:31):
so affirming. He just he just stopped all the anxiety
and all the freak out and he interrupted with this.
He said, I know the plans I have for you,
Shawna plans to prosper you, not to harm you, plans
to give you hope and a future. And it was
very dad like, you know, I felt the discipline of
the Lord, but I also felt comforted and encouraged by
(17:54):
it at the same time.
S3 (17:55):
Like, sit down, sit down on the couch. You can
trust me, Shawna.
S2 (17:59):
We're going to have a heart to heart here. Yeah.
So my anxious heart literally just slowed down as I
received the correction from the Lord and the truth from him.
It was the best interruption ever. Sometimes being interrupted is
a good and beautiful thing. And so my prayer for
you today is that the Lord would be able to
(18:20):
interrupt what you're walking through right now, what you're thinking,
what you're believing, and that he would speak the truth
to your hearts in a way that only a good
dad could.
S3 (18:34):
Follow God's prompts. It was last Thursday and I went
to Zeeland Hospital to get some blood work, and when
I walked into the lobby, there was a woman who
was completely losing it. Stress. Outbursts of anger. Everyone in
the lobby could hear her. The security was there. I
(18:56):
checked in, got my blood drawn, and as I walked
out of Zeeland Hospital, this woman was sitting on the
bench talking to someone on the phone. She had cooled off,
but I could tell she was still troubled. And I
started back home and I was thinking about her, and
I was about a mile from the hospital, and I
felt prompted to go back. And so I turned my
(19:18):
Rav4 around and I thought to myself, what am I doing?
S2 (19:23):
What am I getting myself into here? But you felt
that from the Lord? Yeah.
S3 (19:27):
Yeah. Holy spirit prompt.
S2 (19:28):
Awesome.
S3 (19:29):
And I thought, I can't believe I'm doing this. Lord,
you're going to have to show me the way. And so,
you know, we just go as far ahead as we
can see. And I parked again at Zeeland Hospital, started
walking back to the bench where this woman had been.
And right then she walked back out the front door
toward the bench. So I just knew, you know, it
was that perfect timing. I said, you seem really troubled.
(19:51):
Is there any way I can help? And she told
me a little bit of her story, and she had
been left at the hospital by her family, and I
asked her if I could pray with her. So then
I prayed. I just asked God to show her that
she was seen and known and loved, and that she
would realize that because some random guy came up and
prayed for her. And when I finished she said, are
(20:13):
you busy? I need a ride to the dentist. So
here we go. Here's here's the next step.
S2 (20:21):
On goes the adventure. Yeah, yeah yeah. Step by step
I'm with you.
S3 (20:24):
So we never get bored right in the journey with Jesus.
S2 (20:27):
Oh heavens no. If you're on an adventure with Jesus,
if you're listening for the Holy Spirit to prompt you
like you did and to nudge you in this direction,
or that it's not going to be boring.
S3 (20:38):
So now she's in my Rav4 and I'm taking her
to the dentist, and I find out she's an atheist
because if there were a God, how could he let
all the bad things happen to me that have happened
to me? And you know what? I was talking with
someone in Ireland, Jack, the owner of a bed and breakfast.
(20:59):
And he pretty much said the same thing. If Jesus
let all that happened, I just can't believe in a
Jesus that would let all that stuff happen. You know,
that's a major obstacle. But I just listened. I told
her about being a radio guy and a singer songwriter
(21:20):
and but before that I said, you know, if you
had been the only one to have ever been born.
Jesus still would have come and died for you. So
I did get in some of the good news, but
I certainly wasn't preachy. I just mostly wanted to listen
to her. Everybody's got a story.
S2 (21:38):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, even when you said for her
response about, you know, whether there's a God or not man,
if there's a God, he's not a good one because
otherwise he wouldn't. To let these things happen to me
just tells me there's such a story of pain there.
S3 (21:53):
Yeah. Yeah, I could tell there were layers and layers
of stuff that have happened throughout her life. And there
are people around us just like her all the time. Anyway,
I texted her how she could listen to our show
and to my music. We said goodbye and that was it.
(22:14):
It only took me maybe 30 minutes out of my day.
A 30 minute quote unquote interruption, a beautiful interruption. Boy,
that'd be a good song title. Beautiful interruption. She was
headed to the dentist to get her new teeth. She said,
I've been looking forward to this day for so long.
I finally get to smile. So the Lord gifted me
(22:38):
with the opportunity on her day to get to smile,
to be part of that.
S2 (22:44):
Yes. I'm so glad you went back there, Perry. I'm
so glad you followed that first nudge.
S3 (22:50):
Yeah. And it was like. Just like I said, go
as far ahead as you can see. As I was
turning around. Lord, what am I doing? I don't know
what to do, but I've had some experience with this,
with my suffering friend, and many times he's called on
me and I've I've gone to be with him and
on the way thought, Lord, I don't know what I'm
(23:11):
going to do, right?
S2 (23:12):
I don't know what this is leading to. I feel
like when the Lord nudged you to turn around, that
that was okay. So this is such a great example
of how one obedience leads us to a new place
and leads to the next obedience and leads to the next.
Because if the Lord had said to you or nudged
you and said, go pick her up and bring her,
give her a ride to where she wants to go,
(23:33):
you probably would have been like, no, I don't think so, Lord.
You know, maybe not. That's probably what I would have thought. Like, oh, God,
you're asking a lot right there. But it was just
go back, turn around, go back. And then you did that.
And then it was, you know, you had the opportunity
to pray. You had the opportunity to give her a ride.
Like one thing just opened up in front of the other.
S3 (23:52):
Yeah. The Lord made it very manageable for me.
S2 (23:56):
He's so good like that.
S3 (23:58):
I don't know what God will do with this in
her life, but I know he's at work in her life,
moving her toward the light, moving her toward hope. What
an honor. What a privilege that God entrusts us to
bring light and to bring hope to people who don't
have hope and light. It's an honor because once we
(24:20):
were darkness. But now we are light in the Lord.
So I just encourage you. I hope this encourages you
to follow God's prompts today. And I think of First
Corinthians 1558. Stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give
yourself fully to the work of the Lord, because you
know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
(24:42):
I mean, you give a cup of cold water. Jesus says,
that'll be rewarded.
S2 (24:49):
Our love for God leads us to surrender. There's a
situation in my life where I just really, really, really
want to control the outcome, and I can't. And at first,
I had a proper freak out. Perry, you weren't here
to tell me. Don't freak out, Shawna. So I did.
I had a proper freak out, and then I felt entitled.
That was phase two. I have the right to fill
(25:12):
in the blank. Right? Pride, pride pride, pride.
S3 (25:15):
You say I wasn't here. I was probably somewhere else
freaking out.
S2 (25:19):
You were probably in Rome. Yeah, while I was freaking out. But, yeah,
there was a couple phases. So phase one, total proper
freak out. Phase two, you know, pride. Pride pride, pride. Um,
and then on Friday, something shifted. And this time that
I had with the Lord, and I got just really
honest with him, and I was like, I got tender
instead of angry. It was a huge shift, but I
(25:40):
was like, God, I'm. I'm scared. I can't do anything
about this. Which means that I have to trust you.
And to be honest, I'm actually struggling with that right now.
God didn't shame me. It was so sweet how he
met me in this time. He didn't shame me for
my lack of faith in him. I actually really sensed
that he was understanding of me like a really good
(26:02):
friend with me in that moment, had compassion on me
and was like, yeah, I get it.
S3 (26:09):
I'm reading a book right now by Bill Thrasher, who's
a moody Bible Institute Prof. And one of the things
he says in the book is, thank God for the
circumstances in your life that are causing you to depend
on God to trust him.
S2 (26:26):
That's so good. You know, the way that he met
me in this moment with compassion made me think of,
you know, it's his kindness that leads us to repentance.
I needed to repent for freaking out. I needed to
repent for feeling entitled and for my pride as I
battled through all of this together. And then kind of
in that sweet honesty of being with a really dear friend,
(26:50):
I was reminded of Mary when, you know, I mean,
she's engaged to be married. She had a great reputation.
She finds out she's pregnant with Jesus before she gets married.
This is huge scandal and judgment, you know, bad reputation,
like her whole life shifted. Changed. And at that moment,
(27:13):
probably didn't necessarily seem for the good. You know, I
don't know, just, like scary, scary and unknown. She could
have panicked, freaked out, gotten angry, all the things. But
she didn't. Her response was, May it be to me,
as you have said. It was surrender. And I think
that came out of her love for God. It was her.
(27:35):
Her love response was this expression of obedience to his
plan for her life, even if it was radically different
from what her plan was for her life. She basically
in saying, May it be to me, as you have said,
she was saying, I, I trust you. You can do
what you want to do.
S3 (27:53):
I think one of the worst things that I can
get in life is, yes, answers to all my prayers
where I want God to say yes. I need those
weights and I need those no's.
S2 (28:07):
Yeah. It's hard.
S3 (28:09):
It's hard. But it. is what causes me to grow
in my faith.
S2 (28:15):
And in the hard. We can be honest with God.
We can, you know, tell him in that space, this
is where I'm at. This is what I'm feeling. I mean,
vulnerably honest, the anger and the freak out. Honestly, they
were just cover up for what was really going on,
which is I'm scared. But I tell you what. When
I got honest with him and he met me with
(28:35):
such compassion, that's where the turning happened for me. And
I realized, yeah, may it be to me, as you
have said, that's that's when surrender happened. You can trust
God when you don't know what's coming. You can trust God.
S1 (28:51):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the podcast comes from
their live show. Barry and Shawna. Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio,
Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 809
68 8930. And please subscribe.
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