May 23, 2025 • 31 mins
As Shawna laid on her back in her sunroom, she allowed all her swirling thoughts to settle with the intention of just being with God – not reading her Bible or even praying – just being. Within moments she was overwhelmed by God’s love for her. God wants you to know how much He loves you.
CJ has absolutely hated himself since he was 7 years old. He recently asked God: Can you hear me? Is there a seat for me at your table? And will you please make it unmistakable when you answer these prayers? God made it very clear because He wants us to know how much He loves us!
Chris grew up in a dysfunctional family. While on vacation with his girlfriend’s family he was so uncomfortable with the love that flowed so freely between them. God Himself expressed His love to Chris through the mom in the family. God truly wants us to know that He loves us.
Once in a while God pulls back the curtain and shows us what he’s up to. That happened this week for Perry. He shared the story this week of helping out a troubled woman at Zeeland Hospital. Then yesterday Christine called. She had been prompted to listen to Perry and Shawna and when she clicked into the show Perry was sharing that story. Christine realized Perry was talking about her sister. And there’s more!
When Shawna moved from Arizona to Michigan she could see how this would be good for everyone in her family but her. “God, what am I here to do?” she asked. And she sensed God’s reply was, “What do you want to do?” As she thought about it she resolved that she wants to help others to live in love relationship with God knowing that He’s right here, right now – to make disciples. We are all called and commissioned to do just that.
Perry admits, “I am Edmund.” Edmund from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Edmund betrayed his siblings to the White Witch of Narnia because of his lust for Turkish delight. Because of that, his life, and all of Narnia would be destroyed. That’s was the rule of the Deep Magic. But she didn’t know of a magic deeper still!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:03):
It's the Ferry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:18):
God wants you to know how much he loves you.
Last week in my counseling appointment, my counselor. She is
a godly, wise woman and she suggested that I just
take five minutes to just sit with God. Not reading scripture,
not even necessarily praying. Just aware of him. Just with him.
And it sounds so simple. And I thought, yeah, yeah,
(00:39):
I can do that. So Saturday morning I set the
timer for five minutes. I ended up just laying down
on my back in the sunroom, and I just let
all my thoughts stop swirling. You know, it took some
time for them to kind of settle and quiet, and
then I just focused on God. Just so I don't know.
(01:00):
Just so I could be with him here. You talk about, like,
his liquid love washing over you. That is what it
felt like to me. And the tears just flowed in
that moment. It's really hard to explain everything I felt,
but I felt seen and known and loved and provided
for and celebrated and understood and all of it, like,
(01:22):
all at the same time. And the tears just started
to they just came as a response to his love.
And I didn't even know that my soul needed this,
but I did. It was just such a confirmation of
his love for me. Maybe you've had a time when
you felt a confirmation of God's love, like in a
very special way. He spoke to you to let you
(01:44):
know that he loves you. We'd love to hear your story.
S3 (01:49):
Okay, so a little bit of backstory. I have absolutely
hated myself since I was seven years old. Believed I
was complete garbage. Unlovable. Unworthy. Just no good. So that
being said, I know Jesus Christ can just completely take
that away in an instant, but he has chosen not to.
That is Matthew 310. I'm taking the axe to those roots,
(02:12):
trying to get rid of that in my life. My
circumstances in my life have all told me that I
am worthless, that I am unlovable. You know, I've gotten
thrown away quite a bit. So that being said, in
the backstory, I've really been struggling lately with my circumstances.
(02:32):
They seem to be never ending. Sometimes, you know, it
feels like Shadrach, Meshach, and I got locked in the
oven and I think he forgot about me. So previous
to Good Friday, I was just crying out to God
asking if he even hears my prayers. Do I have
unconfessed sin? You know? Is that right? We have these
(02:55):
scriptures that tell us if you do such and such,
you know God will not hear your prayers. And so
I cried out to him, and I asked, do you
hear my prayers? I also went for about ten years
without taking communion. We have that verse as well, right?
That tells us if you have such and such, don't
take of the elements. So I let the element tray
(03:16):
pass me by at church for about ten years. I
started taking communion again seven years ago. Praise God. And
that was a very emotional moment. But right before Good Friday,
I was feeling again almost rejected by God because of
my circumstances. And I know we're not supposed to look
at circumstances. I get that, but my brain does something
different with it. It wants to keep condemning me. That's
(03:39):
what I've been dealing with. My second prayer was that
I asked God, am I allowed at your table? And
the third prayer around that was, Lord God, please answer
me in a way that I cannot misunderstand. And in
a way that is not going to be, you know,
I can't misunderstand it and it can't be a coincidence.
(03:59):
So three very specific prayers. Lord, do you hear me?
Am I allowed at your table? And please don't let
me misunderstand it. The word for word. Those were my
prayers when I was crying out. So now we get
to Good Friday and I go to my church. And
I did not make it ten feet inside the door
on Good Friday. Did not even get my coat off,
(04:20):
and one of our leaders walked up to me and said, hey,
can I get you to sit up front with us tonight?
I had no idea what was going on, but I
just said to him, sure, yeah, yeah. He said, okay.
When you hear Isaiah 55 start being read, he said,
just make your way up front with everybody else. I said, okay.
So I walk into the sanctuary and I'm talking to
(04:41):
a couple of our elders, and all of a sudden
Isaiah 55 starts being read, and these men stand up
and start walking up front. So I follow. And they
had this big long table set up to kind of represent,
you know, the Last Supper for Good Friday. And I
looked and I know everybody can probably see the confusion
on my face, but all of a sudden, the leader
(05:03):
that asked me to come up there, he goes, here,
sit right here. And I just I said, you got
to be kidding me. So I walked over and I
sit down at this table and we all at the table.
There's 12 of us, plus our pastor. We're simulating the
Last Supper. Right. Sit down, face the congregation. And I'm
looking at the elements of communion. And I'm sitting at
(05:27):
this table, and I don't like to say it was
an audible voice, but it was pretty loud in my
in my head that just said, huh? It looks like
you're sitting at my table, doesn't it? And I just
like my head dropped and I just said, yes. Yes
it does. And that is very hard to misunderstand. That's
for sure. Very hard. It was unreal. Just absolutely unreal.
(05:53):
And it took I'm sitting there facing the congregation. They
did communion as well, but there was 12 of us
up there. Plus my pastor gave each of us up
at the table our communion, and it took everything inside
of me not to ugly cry right in front of everybody.
S2 (06:12):
Uh, thank you for sharing that story. I mean, God,
do you hear me? Do I belong at your table
and make it unmistakable? He answered so clearly of his
love for you. And in Ephesians that says, we are
seated with Christ in the heavenly realms. Like that is
just an image here on earth of what exists for
us for all eternity. You have a place at the table?
S3 (06:34):
Absolutely. Definitely something I'll never forget. And I do know
that that was a very personal moment between him and I.
But I also went right home and wrote all of
this down because I know it's not just for me.
S2 (06:50):
God loves you, and he wants you to know how
much he loves you. He created you. The God who
created the moon that we saw this morning. The incredible sunrise,
everything that exists. He created you because he wanted to
be in a relationship with you. Because he just loves
you that much, and he's not trying to withhold his
love from you. He wants you to experience his love.
(07:11):
If you have a story of experiencing him, we'd love
to hear it. Chris, what's your story?
S4 (07:17):
Oh, sister. Well, my story is short. Story is a kiss.
And being surprised by the love of God. Um. I
came from a broken home. And two dear parents that
struggled with communicating what love is, struggled with communicating affection,
struggled with a lot of that kind of things that honestly,
(07:40):
I take for granted sometimes. Sadly, in some of my relationships,
it's like intimacy is one of those things that that
we crave. But early on in my Christian walk. I,
I was trying to earn that. I was trying to
be better so that I could, you know, get the
girls so that I could get the job so that
(08:00):
I could I was performing. Um, my, my girlfriend at
the time, uh, that I was pursuing, she and I
go out to Wisconsin. I'm, like, 20 years old, and
and we spend, like, two weeks with her best friend's family.
And this is an intact family. Kids are doing great.
(08:21):
Kids are going through their struggles. Kids are like, it's
a it's a beautiful family and I am not liking it.
It is so weird. The husband and wife get along.
They play the like. It was so uncomfortable. I cannot
describe it to you. And then I couldn't put my
(08:43):
finger on it because I was a new Christian. I
didn't know what love was. I didn't know like I was.
So this was all new to me. And one night. Cathy.
She looked me dead in the in the eyes and
just gives me a hug and gives me a kiss
(09:05):
and says, you are loved. And Joel, the very next day,
her dear husband, he became like, there they are, my
adopted parents. They loved me as their child and still
to this day they live states and states away. But
(09:26):
I still call them Mom and Dad. They broke through
my bigger I didn't even know I had just by
showing me love, just by showing me compassion, by being
open with me, by trusting me, by communicating the love
of Christ. And it was it was a kiss that
(09:48):
broke through.
S5 (09:53):
Once in a while. God pulls back the curtain and
shows you what he's up to once in a while.
I shared the story this week about getting some blood
work at Zeeland Hospital last Thursday. Walked into the lobby
and there was a woman falling apart and really angry
in a really loud way. I got my blood drawn.
(10:14):
Left the hospital and I was about a mile from
the hospital when I felt prompted by the Holy Spirit
to go back. I turned around and thought, I can't
believe I'm doing this. Back at the hospital, this woman
was coming out the front door to sit on a bench.
Just as I was walking up, I said, you seem troubled.
(10:35):
Is there any way I can help? She shared a
bit of her story. I did get to pray with her,
and then I gave her a ride to the dentist.
She told me on the way to the dentist that
she's an atheist because if there was a God, how
could he let all the bad things happen to me
that have happened to me? Well, Shauna, you took a
(10:56):
call yesterday for me, and I got on that call
and it was a woman named Christine. And she said,
I heard your story. Did you take this hurting woman
to the dentist by Walmart? Yep. She said, that's my sister.
S2 (11:14):
Oh my goodness.
S5 (11:16):
Christine said, the one I was talking with on the
phone yesterday. I was moved to turn on your show.
And at that very moment you were telling my sister's story.
S6 (11:26):
Oh my goodness.
S5 (11:28):
Yeah. And I wondered, is this my sister? Christine said,
my sister and me aren't speaking right now just because
of the stuff, you know? Everybody's got a story.
S2 (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
S5 (11:40):
Every family has a story.
S2 (11:42):
Relationship. Relational hardship.
S5 (11:45):
There was a number of years I wasn't speaking with
my brother because of similar hurt in his life. But um. Anyway,
Christine said, I and my brother pray constantly that the
Lord will bring people across her path. Your help was
an answer to our prayers. Glory to God!
S2 (12:07):
That is amazing that she turned on the radio, tuned
in to 89.3 just at the right time to hear
you tell the story that happened to be about her
sister and that God was, you know, God pulled back
the curtain for you, but he also pulled back the
curtain for her.
S5 (12:21):
Yes.
S2 (12:22):
To let her know, hey, I hear you. And I'm
answering your prayers.
S5 (12:26):
Yeah. She told me basically that this was just she
needed this so much. Because you know why? Why does
my sister suffer the way that she does? And why
is God not answering our prayers? And, man, I can
relate with that. So The troubled sister back to last week.
(12:47):
Given her a ride. She told me on the way
to the dentist that she's an atheist. But what I
found out yesterday from her sister, Christine, is that she
does believe in God. She just doesn't believe he loves her.
She believes that all her hardships are God's punishment. And
if that's you, if you think God is punishing you,
(13:10):
I get the feeling. But it's a lie. It's from
the dark side of the force. I love Star Wars. Sorry,
but it's from the dark side. It's from the enemy.
His name is Satan. There's a real devil and he's
telling you that God is punishing you, when in fact,
(13:31):
he sent his son for you to bleed out for
you because that's how much he loves you. But you
know what? One of the things Jesus led me to
share with Christine's sister last week is if you had
been the only person born, Jesus still would have come
and died for you. So getting the real story yesterday
(13:53):
that she thinks that God is punishing her and the Lord.
You know this this phrase has been used many times,
but that's the phrase God put on my heart. Those
are the words God put in my heart. But Christine
said that's exactly what she needed to hear.
S2 (14:07):
Oh, that's so great. Our heart has a hard time
believing that God could love us. I mean, even when
we know it's true, sometimes our heart has a hard
time believing that God loves us.
S5 (14:24):
Yes we do. And I've got one more thing I
want to share. But I think it'd be sweet right
now if you'd pray for that person right now who
thinks that God is mad at them.
S2 (14:35):
Oh Lord, we love you so much. You are so
good and so often we we are probably right now
in this moment. Honestly, we're mistaken about your goodness. There
are aspects of who you are that we haven't fully
believed and haven't fully trusted yet. And Lord, I just
want to pray for my friend who is struggling to
(14:56):
receive your love today. Oh God, would you remove the
cap that keeps the flow of your love from falling
into their hearts and filling them from the bottom of
their feet to the top of their heads? God, just
fill them with your love in this moment. God, I'm
asking for an outpouring, a revelation of who you are
(15:19):
and of your love specifically for the one and the
ones who struggle to receive and to believe that you
truly love them. Not because not because of anything that
they've ever done. So they can't be disqualified from being
loved by you, but because of who they are, because
(15:39):
they're your children and we love our children. God, thank
you so much for your perfect, perfect love and for
answering our prayers in Jesus name.
S5 (15:48):
Yeah, I'm just thinking, yeah, Lord, pour out waves and
waves of liquid love on on you. Who who doesn't
believe that? That God is for you. You know, most
of the time we don't know the impact we're having.
God doesn't pull back the curtain very often in my journey,
(16:09):
that's not been the case, right? But sometimes God lets
us know. So here, here it is. Keep being light
to your world. Keep your hand to the plow. Keep
sowing the seed of the word keep. Keep going. You're
making a difference. God's word says as much. First Corinthians
(16:33):
1558 stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourself
fully to the work of the Lord, because you know
that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
S2 (16:49):
Hey disciple maker, how's it going? In 2010, when we
were uprooted as a family from our cozy little resort
style home at the end of the cul de sac
in surprise, Arizona, and moved to this 11 acre wooded
lot in West Michigan. Truly, I could not see how
anything good was going to come out of this for me.
(17:11):
I was excited for Dan. This is coming home for
him because he grew up in Allegan and Holland, so
he was coming to what he calls the Promised Land.
S5 (17:20):
Yeah, man.
S2 (17:21):
I did not know what I was getting myself into.
S5 (17:23):
You guys didn't go quite far enough. You had to
go all the way up to northern Michigan by the
Mackinac Bridge. That's where the real Promised Land is.
S2 (17:32):
All right, well, we'll have to experience that sometime. But
I could also see how it was good for my kids.
You know, we came and visited and saw Middleville and
and were in the schools and I was like, oh,
my kids are going to flourish here. There's so much
goodness for them. I just couldn't see how there was
anything good in it for me. I was willing to
be the martyr to come anyway, sacrifice my life for
(17:55):
the betterment of my husband and children.
S5 (17:57):
Suffering for Jesus on 11 acres in a beautiful home
in Middleville. Yeah. It's hard.
S2 (18:02):
Yeah, that's kind of how it went down. Truly. I
was moving away from California. My whole family is in California.
They were just like five hours away at that time.
And so it was hard to step away from my
family life, my family of origin life, to head out
here to Michigan. And so I found myself kind of
in that time of transition, just asking the Lord, like,
what do you want me to do? What do you
(18:25):
have for me in Michigan? And I felt, I'm telling you,
I just sensed that instead of answering that question like
the Lord just came right back at me with a
question of his own. He said, well, Shawna, What do
you want to do? Like no holds barred. If. If
you didn't have to think about making money or commute
(18:46):
or even what you're equipped to do, what your education is,
what your background is in, like throw all that stuff
out the window and just answer this question for me. What?
What is your soul long to do? What do you
really want to do?
S5 (18:59):
That's the question that we need to ask. And we're
so afraid to ask, you know, because we do limit ourselves.
We have this. Well, it's been said before, scarcity mentality
because we we don't think we have this or that
or the other thing, but just to wipe the slate
clean and say, what would I do if I could
(19:21):
do it? And then trust God to equip me to
do it and to open the doors?
S2 (19:26):
Yeah. I was having a conversation with my daughter the
other day, and we were talking about kind of, um,
job descriptions and how men have a tendency to look
at a job description and say, I don't know how
to do that, but I can learn. I can step
into that where women have a tendency to say, I
don't know how to do that, so I can't apply
for that job. There's a difference in the way that
we kind of approach it. So we do. We put
(19:47):
obstacles in the way between us and what our soul
longs to do. So here I am faced with this question.
I'm asking God what he wants me to do, and
he's asking me what I want to do. And so
I had to kind of dig a little bit. But
what I landed at is I want to help people
see that being in relationship with Jesus is more than
(20:09):
Sunday morning church or midweek Bible study, or even just
listening to Christian radio. Like being in relationship with Jesus
impacts how we live our lives. On Tuesday at 2:00,
when nobody is watching and it's just you and Jesus.
S5 (20:23):
Because that's the way you walk out your journey with
Jesus and you can't pass on what you don't have.
And so God's helped you become that. And so and
that's what you're doing.
S2 (20:37):
I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. And I my heart's desire.
And this kind of brings me back to when my
babies were little. But when my kids were starting to
take their first steps, you know, I had lots of kids.
There were lots of toys all over the floor. But
when one of my kids was starting to begin to
take steps, I especially if they'd stand up, you know,
(20:58):
and they'd start to kind of get their balance and
then they let go. I would clear out all the
toys out of the way and get right in front
of them and extend my arms. And I wanted them
to be successful. I wanted them to win. I wanted
them to be able to take their next steps, and
I wasn't going to let them fall. I was going
to catch them if they fell. And it's like, that's
what I want to do spiritually. I want to create space,
(21:20):
push out space for other people to be able to
just take another step closer to Jesus, his arms wide open,
extended towards them. That's really what it came down to.
And I think that's what Jesus meant when he told
us to go and make disciples. Like push out some
space for some folks to come to me. In fact,
(21:42):
in Matthew 28 he says. All authority in heaven and
earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make
disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the father and the son and the Holy Spirit, and
teaching them to obey everything I've commanded. We have been
commissioned by Jesus Himself, who has all authority in heaven
and on earth, all authority. We've been commissioned to make disciples,
(22:07):
to show people that Christianity is not just about Sunday
morning church. It's not just about mid-week Bible study or
or even listening to Christian radio.
S5 (22:17):
When Jesus called his guys what he was saying to them,
what they would have heard from him was, follow me
and you'll become just like I am.
S2 (22:27):
That's it. That's it. And the follow me is like,
follow me close. Be with me. I want to be
in relationship with you. And in that relationship, I'll show
you what I want you to do. And that's what
we simply call obedience. It's not because I'm trying to
follow some kind of rules. It's because I'm in a
love relationship, and I want that relationship to be nurtured
(22:48):
and to grow. And so we have this relationship where
a God speaks to us and we get to obey
what he is speaking to us. And in that work,
he transforms us. He makes us totally different people.
S5 (23:01):
Yeah. And Paul said. Paul said, follow me as I
follow Christ. And we were in Rome. We went to
Mamertine prison, and that's likely where Paul was held before
he was executed. And I stood there in that dungeon
of a prison where they dropped him down through a hole.
And it was like Paul was saying, Perry, follow me here.
(23:26):
Don't keep trying to get to the top. The gospel
leads down and then it leads to a resurrection.
S2 (23:35):
Yeah. And we get to be just that, followers of Jesus.
And not only do we get to be disciples of Jesus,
but we also get to be disciple makers. You are
a disciple maker. You're a Jesus loving, Holy Spirit filled
child of God on mission with him to make his
love known to the world. Whether you are at work,
whether you're in your neighborhood or in your dining room
(23:58):
at the table. Go make disciples.
S5 (24:05):
Jesus destroyed death by his death. I was standing outside
Ridge Point Community Church, Holland, in the freezing cold of
late December. As the hearse drove my mom's body away
to be planted in Graskop Seminary Cemetery in Holland, the
(24:26):
grief felt like a sword through my soul. But hope
kept me from being crushed.
S2 (24:31):
Dude, I felt that when my dad. For me, it
was the moment when they were when everybody left and
they were lowering the casket. I just wanted to, you know,
refined me, just sat and wept. But the me, the
real me wanted to run over there and just grab
(24:53):
the casket and say, no, no, that's my dad. Don't.
But we have hope. Because your mom. My dad had
incredible love relationship with God.
S5 (25:06):
Yeah, there's that intense grief. And there's there's a hope.
There's an unshakable hope in The lion, the witch and
the wardrobe. Edmund is seduced by the White Witch through
his lust for Turkish delight. But what the White Witch
really wants is to kill his siblings. Him too. She
knows the prophecy that says they'll destroy her. And she
(25:30):
knows Edmund's weakness. I really want to meet your brother
and sisters. Bring them to me and I'll give you
all the Turkish delight you want. Have you ever heard
that temptation from somewhere? So he brings them to Narnia
and steals away to tell the witch they're here. Give
me my Turkish delight. And of course, then the witch
(25:51):
shows her true colors. And she's not giving him any
Turkish delight. But Lucy, Peter and Susan are safe with Aslan,
the great lion. And now Edmund's a slave of the
witch and is doomed because Narnia's deep magic says the
witch has the right to kill traitors. Deny her that
(26:11):
right to kill Edmund and Narnia, not just him, but
all Narnia will perish in fire and water.
S2 (26:19):
I know you know we love stories and how stories
impact us, but this is such a beautiful illustration of
what sin does. You know, it's hard to look at
the sin in our lives for what it is. And
so it's easier to just kind of, I don't know,
maybe lump them all together in one lump statement. God
forgive me of my sins. You know, if there are any,
(26:40):
rather than to see the destruction that sin leads to.
And I think when we see the destruction that sin
leads to, we see the goodness of God in rescuing
us from it. How deserving we are of the death.
S5 (26:54):
Yeah. The Lord just gave me a picture a number
of years ago of, you know, I was I was
the one who thrust the spear through Jesus side. I
have a part in that. And just that takes sin
to a whole different level and gives you me a
whole different view of my sin and the gravity of it,
but also of Jesus love.
S2 (27:14):
Well, and I think, too, about, you know, that how
Edmund's siblings are all going to be impacted by this.
You know, we think I think a lot of times
the lie I believe is my sin is just impacting me.
It's not impacting anybody else. And that's just not true.
It's a lie.
S5 (27:33):
Yeah. Sends a destroyer. Aslan, though, saves the day by
dying in Edmund's place. Susan and Lucy are weeping at
the grave of Aslan, but suddenly he's alive. How can
you be alive? Aslan and Aslan says the witch was right,
that the deep magic decreed that all traitors lives are
(27:56):
forfeited to her. But if she had looked back before
the dawn of time, she would have seen something else.
That there is a magic deeper still. Her knowledge goes
back only to the dawn of time. But if she
could have looked a little further back into the stillness
and the darkness before time dawned, she would have read
there a different incantation. She would have known that when
(28:20):
a willing victim who had committed no treachery, who was
completely innocent, was killed in a traitor's stead. Death itself
would start working backwards.
S2 (28:33):
Come on.
S5 (28:33):
That's the gospel.
S2 (28:34):
That's the gospel. Straight up gospel.
S5 (28:38):
Jesus destroyed death by death. I'm Edmund. My fate is death.
I should have been crushed with grief and fear of
judgment as I watched the hearse take my mom away.
But Jesus, the flawless lion, took the death I deserve
and that you deserve. He took it for us, and
(29:00):
he destroyed it. So not only are our sins forgiven,
but death is defeated. That's the gospel.
S2 (29:09):
And I think oftentimes we can even condense that down
to I'm. I'm just pardoned. You know, and even maybe
feel pardoned and dismissed. But it was literally the the
love that God has for you that caused him to
go to these great lengths to save us. Not so
we could be saved and pardoned and dismissed, but so
(29:31):
that we could be saved and pardoned and brought into
this sweet personal love relationship with him.
S5 (29:40):
Into the dance, the dance of the father, son and
Holy Spirit. This gospel is is always for me, getting
so much bigger because it's it's it's huge, it's infinite.
And the Lord just keeps opening my mind to more
and more of of what this really is.
S2 (29:59):
And I love so much that you said, Perry, I
am Edmond, because we can believe all of the things
about the gospel. We can make statements and say, I
agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that.
I agree with that. But until we realize that it's
truth that impacts our own hearts and our own eternity,
(30:20):
it's just religion.
S5 (30:23):
Yeah. So do you know that you're Edmund? And do
you know that your sins can be wiped away by
faith in Jesus? And do you know that your death
is not the end? It's only a beginning. Because of
Jesus Christ. If you don't throw yourself on Jesus and
(30:44):
you'll know. Hebrews two Jesus shared our humanity so that
by his death he might break the power of him
who holds the power of death, that is the devil,
and free us forever from being held in slavery to
our fear of death.
S1 (31:02):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the Perry and Shawna
podcast comes from their live show. Barry and Shawna. Mornings
on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to
us by texting 809 68 8930 and please subscribe.
It's the Ferry and Shawna podcast on the real life
journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved
child and that Jesus has called you into his massive
mission to heal the world.
S2 (00:18):
God wants you to know how much he loves you.
Last week in my counseling appointment, my counselor. She is
a godly, wise woman and she suggested that I just
take five minutes to just sit with God. Not reading scripture,
not even necessarily praying. Just aware of him. Just with him.
And it sounds so simple. And I thought, yeah, yeah,
(00:39):
I can do that. So Saturday morning I set the
timer for five minutes. I ended up just laying down
on my back in the sunroom, and I just let
all my thoughts stop swirling. You know, it took some
time for them to kind of settle and quiet, and
then I just focused on God. Just so I don't know.
(01:00):
Just so I could be with him here. You talk about, like,
his liquid love washing over you. That is what it
felt like to me. And the tears just flowed in
that moment. It's really hard to explain everything I felt,
but I felt seen and known and loved and provided
for and celebrated and understood and all of it, like,
(01:22):
all at the same time. And the tears just started
to they just came as a response to his love.
And I didn't even know that my soul needed this,
but I did. It was just such a confirmation of
his love for me. Maybe you've had a time when
you felt a confirmation of God's love, like in a
very special way. He spoke to you to let you
(01:44):
know that he loves you. We'd love to hear your story.
S3 (01:49):
Okay, so a little bit of backstory. I have absolutely
hated myself since I was seven years old. Believed I
was complete garbage. Unlovable. Unworthy. Just no good. So that
being said, I know Jesus Christ can just completely take
that away in an instant, but he has chosen not to.
That is Matthew 310. I'm taking the axe to those roots,
(02:12):
trying to get rid of that in my life. My
circumstances in my life have all told me that I
am worthless, that I am unlovable. You know, I've gotten
thrown away quite a bit. So that being said, in
the backstory, I've really been struggling lately with my circumstances.
(02:32):
They seem to be never ending. Sometimes, you know, it
feels like Shadrach, Meshach, and I got locked in the
oven and I think he forgot about me. So previous
to Good Friday, I was just crying out to God
asking if he even hears my prayers. Do I have
unconfessed sin? You know? Is that right? We have these
(02:55):
scriptures that tell us if you do such and such,
you know God will not hear your prayers. And so
I cried out to him, and I asked, do you
hear my prayers? I also went for about ten years
without taking communion. We have that verse as well, right?
That tells us if you have such and such, don't
take of the elements. So I let the element tray
(03:16):
pass me by at church for about ten years. I
started taking communion again seven years ago. Praise God. And
that was a very emotional moment. But right before Good Friday,
I was feeling again almost rejected by God because of
my circumstances. And I know we're not supposed to look
at circumstances. I get that, but my brain does something
different with it. It wants to keep condemning me. That's
(03:39):
what I've been dealing with. My second prayer was that
I asked God, am I allowed at your table? And
the third prayer around that was, Lord God, please answer
me in a way that I cannot misunderstand. And in
a way that is not going to be, you know,
I can't misunderstand it and it can't be a coincidence.
(03:59):
So three very specific prayers. Lord, do you hear me?
Am I allowed at your table? And please don't let
me misunderstand it. The word for word. Those were my
prayers when I was crying out. So now we get
to Good Friday and I go to my church. And
I did not make it ten feet inside the door
on Good Friday. Did not even get my coat off,
(04:20):
and one of our leaders walked up to me and said, hey,
can I get you to sit up front with us tonight?
I had no idea what was going on, but I
just said to him, sure, yeah, yeah. He said, okay.
When you hear Isaiah 55 start being read, he said,
just make your way up front with everybody else. I said, okay.
So I walk into the sanctuary and I'm talking to
(04:41):
a couple of our elders, and all of a sudden
Isaiah 55 starts being read, and these men stand up
and start walking up front. So I follow. And they
had this big long table set up to kind of represent,
you know, the Last Supper for Good Friday. And I
looked and I know everybody can probably see the confusion
on my face, but all of a sudden, the leader
(05:03):
that asked me to come up there, he goes, here,
sit right here. And I just I said, you got
to be kidding me. So I walked over and I
sit down at this table and we all at the table.
There's 12 of us, plus our pastor. We're simulating the
Last Supper. Right. Sit down, face the congregation. And I'm
looking at the elements of communion. And I'm sitting at
(05:27):
this table, and I don't like to say it was
an audible voice, but it was pretty loud in my
in my head that just said, huh? It looks like
you're sitting at my table, doesn't it? And I just
like my head dropped and I just said, yes. Yes
it does. And that is very hard to misunderstand. That's
for sure. Very hard. It was unreal. Just absolutely unreal.
(05:53):
And it took I'm sitting there facing the congregation. They
did communion as well, but there was 12 of us
up there. Plus my pastor gave each of us up
at the table our communion, and it took everything inside
of me not to ugly cry right in front of everybody.
S2 (06:12):
Uh, thank you for sharing that story. I mean, God,
do you hear me? Do I belong at your table
and make it unmistakable? He answered so clearly of his
love for you. And in Ephesians that says, we are
seated with Christ in the heavenly realms. Like that is
just an image here on earth of what exists for
us for all eternity. You have a place at the table?
S3 (06:34):
Absolutely. Definitely something I'll never forget. And I do know
that that was a very personal moment between him and I.
But I also went right home and wrote all of
this down because I know it's not just for me.
S2 (06:50):
God loves you, and he wants you to know how
much he loves you. He created you. The God who
created the moon that we saw this morning. The incredible sunrise,
everything that exists. He created you because he wanted to
be in a relationship with you. Because he just loves
you that much, and he's not trying to withhold his
love from you. He wants you to experience his love.
(07:11):
If you have a story of experiencing him, we'd love
to hear it. Chris, what's your story?
S4 (07:17):
Oh, sister. Well, my story is short. Story is a kiss.
And being surprised by the love of God. Um. I
came from a broken home. And two dear parents that
struggled with communicating what love is, struggled with communicating affection,
struggled with a lot of that kind of things that honestly,
(07:40):
I take for granted sometimes. Sadly, in some of my relationships,
it's like intimacy is one of those things that that
we crave. But early on in my Christian walk. I,
I was trying to earn that. I was trying to
be better so that I could, you know, get the
girls so that I could get the job so that
(08:00):
I could I was performing. Um, my, my girlfriend at
the time, uh, that I was pursuing, she and I
go out to Wisconsin. I'm, like, 20 years old, and
and we spend, like, two weeks with her best friend's family.
And this is an intact family. Kids are doing great.
(08:21):
Kids are going through their struggles. Kids are like, it's
a it's a beautiful family and I am not liking it.
It is so weird. The husband and wife get along.
They play the like. It was so uncomfortable. I cannot
describe it to you. And then I couldn't put my
(08:43):
finger on it because I was a new Christian. I
didn't know what love was. I didn't know like I was.
So this was all new to me. And one night. Cathy.
She looked me dead in the in the eyes and
just gives me a hug and gives me a kiss
(09:05):
and says, you are loved. And Joel, the very next day,
her dear husband, he became like, there they are, my
adopted parents. They loved me as their child and still
to this day they live states and states away. But
(09:26):
I still call them Mom and Dad. They broke through
my bigger I didn't even know I had just by
showing me love, just by showing me compassion, by being
open with me, by trusting me, by communicating the love
of Christ. And it was it was a kiss that
(09:48):
broke through.
S5 (09:53):
Once in a while. God pulls back the curtain and
shows you what he's up to once in a while.
I shared the story this week about getting some blood
work at Zeeland Hospital last Thursday. Walked into the lobby
and there was a woman falling apart and really angry
in a really loud way. I got my blood drawn.
(10:14):
Left the hospital and I was about a mile from
the hospital when I felt prompted by the Holy Spirit
to go back. I turned around and thought, I can't
believe I'm doing this. Back at the hospital, this woman
was coming out the front door to sit on a bench.
Just as I was walking up, I said, you seem troubled.
(10:35):
Is there any way I can help? She shared a
bit of her story. I did get to pray with her,
and then I gave her a ride to the dentist.
She told me on the way to the dentist that
she's an atheist because if there was a God, how
could he let all the bad things happen to me
that have happened to me? Well, Shauna, you took a
(10:56):
call yesterday for me, and I got on that call
and it was a woman named Christine. And she said,
I heard your story. Did you take this hurting woman
to the dentist by Walmart? Yep. She said, that's my sister.
S2 (11:14):
Oh my goodness.
S5 (11:16):
Christine said, the one I was talking with on the
phone yesterday. I was moved to turn on your show.
And at that very moment you were telling my sister's story.
S6 (11:26):
Oh my goodness.
S5 (11:28):
Yeah. And I wondered, is this my sister? Christine said,
my sister and me aren't speaking right now just because
of the stuff, you know? Everybody's got a story.
S2 (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
S5 (11:40):
Every family has a story.
S2 (11:42):
Relationship. Relational hardship.
S5 (11:45):
There was a number of years I wasn't speaking with
my brother because of similar hurt in his life. But um. Anyway,
Christine said, I and my brother pray constantly that the
Lord will bring people across her path. Your help was
an answer to our prayers. Glory to God!
S2 (12:07):
That is amazing that she turned on the radio, tuned
in to 89.3 just at the right time to hear
you tell the story that happened to be about her
sister and that God was, you know, God pulled back
the curtain for you, but he also pulled back the
curtain for her.
S5 (12:21):
Yes.
S2 (12:22):
To let her know, hey, I hear you. And I'm
answering your prayers.
S5 (12:26):
Yeah. She told me basically that this was just she
needed this so much. Because you know why? Why does
my sister suffer the way that she does? And why
is God not answering our prayers? And, man, I can
relate with that. So The troubled sister back to last week.
(12:47):
Given her a ride. She told me on the way
to the dentist that she's an atheist. But what I
found out yesterday from her sister, Christine, is that she
does believe in God. She just doesn't believe he loves her.
She believes that all her hardships are God's punishment. And
if that's you, if you think God is punishing you,
(13:10):
I get the feeling. But it's a lie. It's from
the dark side of the force. I love Star Wars. Sorry,
but it's from the dark side. It's from the enemy.
His name is Satan. There's a real devil and he's
telling you that God is punishing you, when in fact,
(13:31):
he sent his son for you to bleed out for
you because that's how much he loves you. But you
know what? One of the things Jesus led me to
share with Christine's sister last week is if you had
been the only person born, Jesus still would have come
and died for you. So getting the real story yesterday
(13:53):
that she thinks that God is punishing her and the Lord.
You know this this phrase has been used many times,
but that's the phrase God put on my heart. Those
are the words God put in my heart. But Christine
said that's exactly what she needed to hear.
S2 (14:07):
Oh, that's so great. Our heart has a hard time
believing that God could love us. I mean, even when
we know it's true, sometimes our heart has a hard
time believing that God loves us.
S5 (14:24):
Yes we do. And I've got one more thing I
want to share. But I think it'd be sweet right
now if you'd pray for that person right now who
thinks that God is mad at them.
S2 (14:35):
Oh Lord, we love you so much. You are so
good and so often we we are probably right now
in this moment. Honestly, we're mistaken about your goodness. There
are aspects of who you are that we haven't fully
believed and haven't fully trusted yet. And Lord, I just
want to pray for my friend who is struggling to
(14:56):
receive your love today. Oh God, would you remove the
cap that keeps the flow of your love from falling
into their hearts and filling them from the bottom of
their feet to the top of their heads? God, just
fill them with your love in this moment. God, I'm
asking for an outpouring, a revelation of who you are
(15:19):
and of your love specifically for the one and the
ones who struggle to receive and to believe that you
truly love them. Not because not because of anything that
they've ever done. So they can't be disqualified from being
loved by you, but because of who they are, because
(15:39):
they're your children and we love our children. God, thank
you so much for your perfect, perfect love and for
answering our prayers in Jesus name.
S5 (15:48):
Yeah, I'm just thinking, yeah, Lord, pour out waves and
waves of liquid love on on you. Who who doesn't
believe that? That God is for you. You know, most
of the time we don't know the impact we're having.
God doesn't pull back the curtain very often in my journey,
(16:09):
that's not been the case, right? But sometimes God lets
us know. So here, here it is. Keep being light
to your world. Keep your hand to the plow. Keep
sowing the seed of the word keep. Keep going. You're
making a difference. God's word says as much. First Corinthians
(16:33):
1558 stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourself
fully to the work of the Lord, because you know
that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
S2 (16:49):
Hey disciple maker, how's it going? In 2010, when we
were uprooted as a family from our cozy little resort
style home at the end of the cul de sac
in surprise, Arizona, and moved to this 11 acre wooded
lot in West Michigan. Truly, I could not see how
anything good was going to come out of this for me.
(17:11):
I was excited for Dan. This is coming home for
him because he grew up in Allegan and Holland, so
he was coming to what he calls the Promised Land.
S5 (17:20):
Yeah, man.
S2 (17:21):
I did not know what I was getting myself into.
S5 (17:23):
You guys didn't go quite far enough. You had to
go all the way up to northern Michigan by the
Mackinac Bridge. That's where the real Promised Land is.
S2 (17:32):
All right, well, we'll have to experience that sometime. But
I could also see how it was good for my kids.
You know, we came and visited and saw Middleville and
and were in the schools and I was like, oh,
my kids are going to flourish here. There's so much
goodness for them. I just couldn't see how there was
anything good in it for me. I was willing to
be the martyr to come anyway, sacrifice my life for
(17:55):
the betterment of my husband and children.
S5 (17:57):
Suffering for Jesus on 11 acres in a beautiful home
in Middleville. Yeah. It's hard.
S2 (18:02):
Yeah, that's kind of how it went down. Truly. I
was moving away from California. My whole family is in California.
They were just like five hours away at that time.
And so it was hard to step away from my
family life, my family of origin life, to head out
here to Michigan. And so I found myself kind of
in that time of transition, just asking the Lord, like,
what do you want me to do? What do you
(18:25):
have for me in Michigan? And I felt, I'm telling you,
I just sensed that instead of answering that question like
the Lord just came right back at me with a
question of his own. He said, well, Shawna, What do
you want to do? Like no holds barred. If. If
you didn't have to think about making money or commute
(18:46):
or even what you're equipped to do, what your education is,
what your background is in, like throw all that stuff
out the window and just answer this question for me. What?
What is your soul long to do? What do you
really want to do?
S5 (18:59):
That's the question that we need to ask. And we're
so afraid to ask, you know, because we do limit ourselves.
We have this. Well, it's been said before, scarcity mentality
because we we don't think we have this or that
or the other thing, but just to wipe the slate
clean and say, what would I do if I could
(19:21):
do it? And then trust God to equip me to
do it and to open the doors?
S2 (19:26):
Yeah. I was having a conversation with my daughter the
other day, and we were talking about kind of, um,
job descriptions and how men have a tendency to look
at a job description and say, I don't know how
to do that, but I can learn. I can step
into that where women have a tendency to say, I
don't know how to do that, so I can't apply
for that job. There's a difference in the way that
we kind of approach it. So we do. We put
(19:47):
obstacles in the way between us and what our soul
longs to do. So here I am faced with this question.
I'm asking God what he wants me to do, and
he's asking me what I want to do. And so
I had to kind of dig a little bit. But
what I landed at is I want to help people
see that being in relationship with Jesus is more than
(20:09):
Sunday morning church or midweek Bible study, or even just
listening to Christian radio. Like being in relationship with Jesus
impacts how we live our lives. On Tuesday at 2:00,
when nobody is watching and it's just you and Jesus.
S5 (20:23):
Because that's the way you walk out your journey with
Jesus and you can't pass on what you don't have.
And so God's helped you become that. And so and
that's what you're doing.
S2 (20:37):
I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. And I my heart's desire.
And this kind of brings me back to when my
babies were little. But when my kids were starting to
take their first steps, you know, I had lots of kids.
There were lots of toys all over the floor. But
when one of my kids was starting to begin to
take steps, I especially if they'd stand up, you know,
(20:58):
and they'd start to kind of get their balance and
then they let go. I would clear out all the
toys out of the way and get right in front
of them and extend my arms. And I wanted them
to be successful. I wanted them to win. I wanted
them to be able to take their next steps, and
I wasn't going to let them fall. I was going
to catch them if they fell. And it's like, that's
what I want to do spiritually. I want to create space,
(21:20):
push out space for other people to be able to
just take another step closer to Jesus, his arms wide open,
extended towards them. That's really what it came down to.
And I think that's what Jesus meant when he told
us to go and make disciples. Like push out some
space for some folks to come to me. In fact,
(21:42):
in Matthew 28 he says. All authority in heaven and
earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make
disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the father and the son and the Holy Spirit, and
teaching them to obey everything I've commanded. We have been
commissioned by Jesus Himself, who has all authority in heaven
and on earth, all authority. We've been commissioned to make disciples,
(22:07):
to show people that Christianity is not just about Sunday
morning church. It's not just about mid-week Bible study or
or even listening to Christian radio.
S5 (22:17):
When Jesus called his guys what he was saying to them,
what they would have heard from him was, follow me
and you'll become just like I am.
S2 (22:27):
That's it. That's it. And the follow me is like,
follow me close. Be with me. I want to be
in relationship with you. And in that relationship, I'll show
you what I want you to do. And that's what
we simply call obedience. It's not because I'm trying to
follow some kind of rules. It's because I'm in a
love relationship, and I want that relationship to be nurtured
(22:48):
and to grow. And so we have this relationship where
a God speaks to us and we get to obey
what he is speaking to us. And in that work,
he transforms us. He makes us totally different people.
S5 (23:01):
Yeah. And Paul said. Paul said, follow me as I
follow Christ. And we were in Rome. We went to
Mamertine prison, and that's likely where Paul was held before
he was executed. And I stood there in that dungeon
of a prison where they dropped him down through a hole.
And it was like Paul was saying, Perry, follow me here.
(23:26):
Don't keep trying to get to the top. The gospel
leads down and then it leads to a resurrection.
S2 (23:35):
Yeah. And we get to be just that, followers of Jesus.
And not only do we get to be disciples of Jesus,
but we also get to be disciple makers. You are
a disciple maker. You're a Jesus loving, Holy Spirit filled
child of God on mission with him to make his
love known to the world. Whether you are at work,
whether you're in your neighborhood or in your dining room
(23:58):
at the table. Go make disciples.
S5 (24:05):
Jesus destroyed death by his death. I was standing outside
Ridge Point Community Church, Holland, in the freezing cold of
late December. As the hearse drove my mom's body away
to be planted in Graskop Seminary Cemetery in Holland, the
(24:26):
grief felt like a sword through my soul. But hope
kept me from being crushed.
S2 (24:31):
Dude, I felt that when my dad. For me, it
was the moment when they were when everybody left and
they were lowering the casket. I just wanted to, you know,
refined me, just sat and wept. But the me, the
real me wanted to run over there and just grab
(24:53):
the casket and say, no, no, that's my dad. Don't.
But we have hope. Because your mom. My dad had
incredible love relationship with God.
S5 (25:06):
Yeah, there's that intense grief. And there's there's a hope.
There's an unshakable hope in The lion, the witch and
the wardrobe. Edmund is seduced by the White Witch through
his lust for Turkish delight. But what the White Witch
really wants is to kill his siblings. Him too. She
knows the prophecy that says they'll destroy her. And she
(25:30):
knows Edmund's weakness. I really want to meet your brother
and sisters. Bring them to me and I'll give you
all the Turkish delight you want. Have you ever heard
that temptation from somewhere? So he brings them to Narnia
and steals away to tell the witch they're here. Give
me my Turkish delight. And of course, then the witch
(25:51):
shows her true colors. And she's not giving him any
Turkish delight. But Lucy, Peter and Susan are safe with Aslan,
the great lion. And now Edmund's a slave of the
witch and is doomed because Narnia's deep magic says the
witch has the right to kill traitors. Deny her that
(26:11):
right to kill Edmund and Narnia, not just him, but
all Narnia will perish in fire and water.
S2 (26:19):
I know you know we love stories and how stories
impact us, but this is such a beautiful illustration of
what sin does. You know, it's hard to look at
the sin in our lives for what it is. And
so it's easier to just kind of, I don't know,
maybe lump them all together in one lump statement. God
forgive me of my sins. You know, if there are any,
(26:40):
rather than to see the destruction that sin leads to.
And I think when we see the destruction that sin
leads to, we see the goodness of God in rescuing
us from it. How deserving we are of the death.
S5 (26:54):
Yeah. The Lord just gave me a picture a number
of years ago of, you know, I was I was
the one who thrust the spear through Jesus side. I
have a part in that. And just that takes sin
to a whole different level and gives you me a
whole different view of my sin and the gravity of it,
but also of Jesus love.
S2 (27:14):
Well, and I think, too, about, you know, that how
Edmund's siblings are all going to be impacted by this.
You know, we think I think a lot of times
the lie I believe is my sin is just impacting me.
It's not impacting anybody else. And that's just not true.
It's a lie.
S5 (27:33):
Yeah. Sends a destroyer. Aslan, though, saves the day by
dying in Edmund's place. Susan and Lucy are weeping at
the grave of Aslan, but suddenly he's alive. How can
you be alive? Aslan and Aslan says the witch was right,
that the deep magic decreed that all traitors lives are
(27:56):
forfeited to her. But if she had looked back before
the dawn of time, she would have seen something else.
That there is a magic deeper still. Her knowledge goes
back only to the dawn of time. But if she
could have looked a little further back into the stillness
and the darkness before time dawned, she would have read
there a different incantation. She would have known that when
(28:20):
a willing victim who had committed no treachery, who was
completely innocent, was killed in a traitor's stead. Death itself
would start working backwards.
S2 (28:33):
Come on.
S5 (28:33):
That's the gospel.
S2 (28:34):
That's the gospel. Straight up gospel.
S5 (28:38):
Jesus destroyed death by death. I'm Edmund. My fate is death.
I should have been crushed with grief and fear of
judgment as I watched the hearse take my mom away.
But Jesus, the flawless lion, took the death I deserve
and that you deserve. He took it for us, and
(29:00):
he destroyed it. So not only are our sins forgiven,
but death is defeated. That's the gospel.
S2 (29:09):
And I think oftentimes we can even condense that down
to I'm. I'm just pardoned. You know, and even maybe
feel pardoned and dismissed. But it was literally the the
love that God has for you that caused him to
go to these great lengths to save us. Not so
we could be saved and pardoned and dismissed, but so
(29:31):
that we could be saved and pardoned and brought into
this sweet personal love relationship with him.
S5 (29:40):
Into the dance, the dance of the father, son and
Holy Spirit. This gospel is is always for me, getting
so much bigger because it's it's it's huge, it's infinite.
And the Lord just keeps opening my mind to more
and more of of what this really is.
S2 (29:59):
And I love so much that you said, Perry, I
am Edmond, because we can believe all of the things
about the gospel. We can make statements and say, I
agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that.
I agree with that. But until we realize that it's
truth that impacts our own hearts and our own eternity,
(30:20):
it's just religion.
S5 (30:23):
Yeah. So do you know that you're Edmund? And do
you know that your sins can be wiped away by
faith in Jesus? And do you know that your death
is not the end? It's only a beginning. Because of
Jesus Christ. If you don't throw yourself on Jesus and
(30:44):
you'll know. Hebrews two Jesus shared our humanity so that
by his death he might break the power of him
who holds the power of death, that is the devil,
and free us forever from being held in slavery to
our fear of death.
S1 (31:02):
Thanks for letting Barry and Shawna walk the real life
journey with you. The content from the Perry and Shawna
podcast comes from their live show. Barry and Shawna. Mornings
on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to
us by texting 809 68 8930 and please subscribe.
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